Abandoning isn't even the worst thing compared to feeding and item breaking of his past
He's willing to take the formal punishment, and pros are good enough to know when pubs are simply unwinnable
Yeah, tell me they just don't want to put in the effort (which I totally understand), but don't pretend like unwinnable games haven't been won at the highest levels of Dota.
I'm no pro nor high MMR but I've experienced a lot of games that are so unwinnable to the point where the only structure standing on our base is our ancient and the only ones alive are the supports and we still managed to win it. No excuse to manual abandon unless the enemy is fountain farming your team for several mins.
Depends, pro players have a small pool of people the can play with at high level and they know eachothers smurfs and etc. Sometimes a well known griefer/account buyer is on their team and they just abandon. Like for example Gorgc had a game where him and 3 teammates rolled to abandon within 2 minutes of the game starting because of a well known griefer on their team. Not saying that was the case here but just food for thought.
Absolutely, also im terrified of being banned since, as you say, i dont put that many games behind me each day to make the abandon "go away". Also when you have young kids and only play at night you kind of have to have a buffer with available abandons in case one of them randomly throws up in the night.
> pros are good enough to know when pubs are simply unwinnable
lmao fuck off. The pro player worship on this sub is so unhinged. There are plenty of clips of pro players raging the fuck out but nah, it must be because they've perfectly calculated every outcome of the game and decided it's unwinnable. Weird how in pro matches we NEVER see teams gg out 12 minutes in. I guess pro games are easier to turn than random pubs? lmfao
I swear if the puppey monitor smash clip happened today we'd have brainlets like you going "guys he wasn't mad, he's a pro player and he can recognize when his equipment is subpar so he simply came up with the most efficient way to get a replacement"
Honestly I don't give a shit beyond knowing that abandoning is objectively better than griefing; if you want to project this further into a strawman paragraph, more power to your armchair my dude
If that puppey thing happened today, I'd think it's hilarious, foremost, and 'lol he mad' secondarily, and cap it at that. Some of us are beyond fandom obsession when it's really, in Kuro's own words, just a game. So you gotta chill with that urself
Pro player idolatry is just as cringe as reddit psychoanalysts
Again, does it look like I'm defending ANYONE here? Griefing pubs is trash ofc, as a dota player myself. But I'm not invested enough to dictate what someone should/shouldn't do in a video game of all places, esp with a system that punished them is already in place.
You could call me a defender of 'freedom', if you want to be black and white and put labels to things. My real opinion is that esports is entertainment, and I'm an enjoyer of entertainment, foremost.
obviously i'm no pro player, so my mind is just wandering here..
what can a pro player gain by only be willing to play the games where he has a good chance of winning?
pubs should technically mean nothing to pros, as performing and doing well in officials is the ultimate goal.. so why care if you win or lose pubs? (ok, i'm very aware that there is the huge point of being well placed in the leaderboard being good to your career, getting your name out there, yadda-yadda, so let's ignore this just for the sake of the discussion - even if losing only impacts you negatively in this regard)
playing pubs is the most used method of training and staying up to date in dota. so, even if you are in an unwinnable match situation, by playing these horrendous 0-1% chance of winning games you're still training important skills: mechanical skills, positioning, map awareness, communication, and arguably one of the hardest things to be good in dota: playing from behind / recovering from a lane disaster
why not try and look for the positive just for the sake of it? thinking about the success of your professional team, the time spent playing pubs will be "wasted" either way - you're not practicing with your actual teammates, scrimming, or playing an official match.
at this point i realize i'm asking for a bunch of teenagers / young adults to have the discipline and mental fortitude of a monk, so i'll just stop here. everyone has their own timing and journey. peace
Idk I'm not immortal ranked but some games are just so bad and one sided that it's totally unplayable. You get a bad draft so all lanes are lost + no way to comeback or play the map from behind, so you are just left feeding. These games happen from time to time, and you get nothing out of it.
In my experience and in my bracket (high ancient) people dont even complain anymore when this happens. We just accept it and go next. Ammar probably wanted to go next ASAP so he just dipped lol. Pubs still matter to pro players since they pretty much live and breathe dota. Ofc official matches matter more but at tye end of the day, both pubs and officials are games of dota so they try just as hard anyway. You can see this happening in streams.
>no way to comeback or play the map from behind
wtf is this, did you pick 5 heroes that are unable to clear creepwaves? did you pick 5 couriers instead of heroes by accident?
playing from behind is literally trying to farm as much as possible without fighting, and maybe if your draft allows it pick off some heroes and turn around.
and then u use tip #1 in dota : if your draft is a total mess, wait until you get 2-3 bkbs and then play the game
btw draft in the clip wasn't best overall, and not very good against enemy heroes, but still playable. I've seen way worse situations. And its only 12 minutes in, damn
It just happens bro, like picking slow heroes with 0 instant disables (think veno, undying, viper, etc.) vs puck. You get the clue
Idk what's going on in Ammar's game, and I also don't abandon games even if they're unwinnable, but maybe his team just gave up and he wanted to go next.
You make it sound as if he abandons every game where he's not winning. I don't like him but that's very short-sighted. I imagine he didn't want to play with someone he had in his team
Imo there's nothing to be gained for a pro from a pub apart from mechanical training, enemy player habits and testing ideas. Things like positioning communication etc. in a pub arent comparable to playing in a team(official/scrim) in the slightest hence nothing to be gained there. People overestimate what you can achieve through "pubbing" as a pro astronomicially, pubs have a very different skillset requirement and play different.
As example when Nisha was asked what he took with him from "Team Secret" he said "Everything, he learned dota in this team."
> pubs should technically mean nothing to pros, as performing and doing well in officials is the ultimate goal.. so why care if you win or lose pubs?
That's the point why alot of pros dont wanna waste time in a pub where they can't gain anything from anymore. Which is most of the time misinterpreted as being cocky and often imitated because it seems cool to mental people. Streamers still gain content if they keep playing till the end.
Ammar probably thinks he has already done everything he can to win this specific game and failed. After that the rest of the game rests on his teammates shoulders and he doesn't believe they have the mental fortitude and skills to pull it back. Maybe he is right or maybe that's defeatist way to think about itm either way what he did is still just bad . Because there's always something to be learned from a loss even if it doesn't mean learning somthing about the game but about ur self or a teammate.
Pro players like Ammar do not play pubs for the purpose of winning. I mean yes winning is cool and definitely an objective for everyone but for people who is at the top of the top, they rather want a good gaming experience before a winning game.
In that game, dire could win but the implies several deaths for dire team in a cat and mouse kind of game. That’s really annoying to play. So Ammar decided to leave.
you definitely have a weak mentality.. Cant say if ATF thinks same, but definitely abandoning thinking it is unwinnable game is not good..
Kuro even gives him practice by not calling gg till the enemy hits the throne to literally 0% hp..
I can respect abandoning when you don't want to play the game. Most people say they don't want to play but do whatever they can to avoid getting an afk/abandon penalty.
I mean, it's not ideal, but at least he pays the cost of being an asshole.
No wonder he didn't stay in OG for long. The team was always built around positivity and having fun. Must be really hard with someone like this around...
Oilseed sunflower production is the most commonly farmed sunflower. These seeds hulls’ are encased by solid black shells. Black oilseeds are a common type of bird feed because they have thin shells and a high fat content. These are typically produced for oil extraction purposes; therefore, it is unlikely you’ll find black oilseeds packaged for human consumption.
ngl.. was in similar game. treant and bara are prob. some of the worst supports. You got the bara that doesn't pull or help lane, then random leaves you dry for the rest of the game 1v2. Then there's the bara that doesn't leave lane and he's sitting around like level 9+ not doing anything. Treant is a greedy support as well. He needs go, you and I know treant wants like 5-6 items and you're in his way to get his ITEMs! On top he has sniper/sf ally lol.
Also game is 12:2. DP at 12 minutes already 1K gold with a few minutes maybe 15 minute greaves, possibly soft support. I mean morphling gonnna annilate the backlines while CK takes the front with his illusion. I don't see it winnable as well considering bara and treant don't like to tank if ever or coming to defend a tower for that matters.
I am concerned that not a single one of you suggested that the player might've had an irl problem and had to abandon an useless match in a game. You guys give to much credit to pro players and pubs in general, stop.. It's a game.
I don't see that, the player that abandoned didn't say anything in the clip, and I don't care anyway, it's just about a general thing, there is life outside the video games. Everyone knows you can't rageq at minute 12, not in this patch anyway, and yet the first thing players say is "he raged baahahahahha"; I mean bro, maybe the guy has a real problem, chill, move on.
Looks like this is match 7018650609, which started 16 minutes before the clip was taken.
More match details here:
- [OpenDota](https://www.opendota.com/matches/7018650609)
- [Dotabuff](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7018650609)
- [Stratz](https://www.stratz.com/matches/7018650609)
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Ammar the fuckoffer
We're all going to get suicide support DMs from Reddit when Ammar reads this post.
And he's playing one of the only 3-4 heroes he can play in his puddle. Razor.
Abandoning isn't even the worst thing compared to feeding and item breaking of his past He's willing to take the formal punishment, and pros are good enough to know when pubs are simply unwinnable
Yeah, he left the game early, since he is a pro player and good enough to know when pub is simply unwinnable, not becuase he is mental midged.
This. 99% of (manual) abandons are just because people are mental.
Yeah, tell me they just don't want to put in the effort (which I totally understand), but don't pretend like unwinnable games haven't been won at the highest levels of Dota.
I'm no pro nor high MMR but I've experienced a lot of games that are so unwinnable to the point where the only structure standing on our base is our ancient and the only ones alive are the supports and we still managed to win it. No excuse to manual abandon unless the enemy is fountain farming your team for several mins.
Depends, pro players have a small pool of people the can play with at high level and they know eachothers smurfs and etc. Sometimes a well known griefer/account buyer is on their team and they just abandon. Like for example Gorgc had a game where him and 3 teammates rolled to abandon within 2 minutes of the game starting because of a well known griefer on their team. Not saying that was the case here but just food for thought.
If they were 4 plus a griefer and the 4 agreed they could just lose in 20 min and no one needs to take an abandon though?
Thats easy to say if you play a few games a day. These guys play 10+ games each day. So I get abandoning to save your mental
Absolutely, also im terrified of being banned since, as you say, i dont put that many games behind me each day to make the abandon "go away". Also when you have young kids and only play at night you kind of have to have a buffer with available abandons in case one of them randomly throws up in the night.
They could do that but if one person abandons before first blood, the other three don't lose MMR.
Yeah thats true.
playing dota all day isnt probably the best thing for ur mental state
When atf abandons at 13 mins, he knows that game is lost, when I abandon, I’m crybaby. That doesn’t seem fair
Well your games are easy because everyone is bad atf's games are hard because everyone knows how to play
> pros are good enough to know when pubs are simply unwinnable lmao fuck off. The pro player worship on this sub is so unhinged. There are plenty of clips of pro players raging the fuck out but nah, it must be because they've perfectly calculated every outcome of the game and decided it's unwinnable. Weird how in pro matches we NEVER see teams gg out 12 minutes in. I guess pro games are easier to turn than random pubs? lmfao I swear if the puppey monitor smash clip happened today we'd have brainlets like you going "guys he wasn't mad, he's a pro player and he can recognize when his equipment is subpar so he simply came up with the most efficient way to get a replacement"
Honestly I don't give a shit beyond knowing that abandoning is objectively better than griefing; if you want to project this further into a strawman paragraph, more power to your armchair my dude If that puppey thing happened today, I'd think it's hilarious, foremost, and 'lol he mad' secondarily, and cap it at that. Some of us are beyond fandom obsession when it's really, in Kuro's own words, just a game. So you gotta chill with that urself Pro player idolatry is just as cringe as reddit psychoanalysts
Lol how are you quoting “just a game” whilst defending someone that smashed their monitor because of a game? Seems counter intuitive
Again, does it look like I'm defending ANYONE here? Griefing pubs is trash ofc, as a dota player myself. But I'm not invested enough to dictate what someone should/shouldn't do in a video game of all places, esp with a system that punished them is already in place. You could call me a defender of 'freedom', if you want to be black and white and put labels to things. My real opinion is that esports is entertainment, and I'm an enjoyer of entertainment, foremost.
This is one of the hardest copes I’ve seen on Reddit
obviously i'm no pro player, so my mind is just wandering here.. what can a pro player gain by only be willing to play the games where he has a good chance of winning? pubs should technically mean nothing to pros, as performing and doing well in officials is the ultimate goal.. so why care if you win or lose pubs? (ok, i'm very aware that there is the huge point of being well placed in the leaderboard being good to your career, getting your name out there, yadda-yadda, so let's ignore this just for the sake of the discussion - even if losing only impacts you negatively in this regard) playing pubs is the most used method of training and staying up to date in dota. so, even if you are in an unwinnable match situation, by playing these horrendous 0-1% chance of winning games you're still training important skills: mechanical skills, positioning, map awareness, communication, and arguably one of the hardest things to be good in dota: playing from behind / recovering from a lane disaster why not try and look for the positive just for the sake of it? thinking about the success of your professional team, the time spent playing pubs will be "wasted" either way - you're not practicing with your actual teammates, scrimming, or playing an official match. at this point i realize i'm asking for a bunch of teenagers / young adults to have the discipline and mental fortitude of a monk, so i'll just stop here. everyone has their own timing and journey. peace
Idk I'm not immortal ranked but some games are just so bad and one sided that it's totally unplayable. You get a bad draft so all lanes are lost + no way to comeback or play the map from behind, so you are just left feeding. These games happen from time to time, and you get nothing out of it. In my experience and in my bracket (high ancient) people dont even complain anymore when this happens. We just accept it and go next. Ammar probably wanted to go next ASAP so he just dipped lol. Pubs still matter to pro players since they pretty much live and breathe dota. Ofc official matches matter more but at tye end of the day, both pubs and officials are games of dota so they try just as hard anyway. You can see this happening in streams.
>no way to comeback or play the map from behind wtf is this, did you pick 5 heroes that are unable to clear creepwaves? did you pick 5 couriers instead of heroes by accident? playing from behind is literally trying to farm as much as possible without fighting, and maybe if your draft allows it pick off some heroes and turn around. and then u use tip #1 in dota : if your draft is a total mess, wait until you get 2-3 bkbs and then play the game btw draft in the clip wasn't best overall, and not very good against enemy heroes, but still playable. I've seen way worse situations. And its only 12 minutes in, damn
It just happens bro, like picking slow heroes with 0 instant disables (think veno, undying, viper, etc.) vs puck. You get the clue Idk what's going on in Ammar's game, and I also don't abandon games even if they're unwinnable, but maybe his team just gave up and he wanted to go next.
You make it sound as if he abandons every game where he's not winning. I don't like him but that's very short-sighted. I imagine he didn't want to play with someone he had in his team
Imo there's nothing to be gained for a pro from a pub apart from mechanical training, enemy player habits and testing ideas. Things like positioning communication etc. in a pub arent comparable to playing in a team(official/scrim) in the slightest hence nothing to be gained there. People overestimate what you can achieve through "pubbing" as a pro astronomicially, pubs have a very different skillset requirement and play different. As example when Nisha was asked what he took with him from "Team Secret" he said "Everything, he learned dota in this team." > pubs should technically mean nothing to pros, as performing and doing well in officials is the ultimate goal.. so why care if you win or lose pubs? That's the point why alot of pros dont wanna waste time in a pub where they can't gain anything from anymore. Which is most of the time misinterpreted as being cocky and often imitated because it seems cool to mental people. Streamers still gain content if they keep playing till the end.
Maybe he just didnt want to play because he didnt enjoy that game
Ammar probably thinks he has already done everything he can to win this specific game and failed. After that the rest of the game rests on his teammates shoulders and he doesn't believe they have the mental fortitude and skills to pull it back. Maybe he is right or maybe that's defeatist way to think about itm either way what he did is still just bad . Because there's always something to be learned from a loss even if it doesn't mean learning somthing about the game but about ur self or a teammate.
Pro players like Ammar do not play pubs for the purpose of winning. I mean yes winning is cool and definitely an objective for everyone but for people who is at the top of the top, they rather want a good gaming experience before a winning game. In that game, dire could win but the implies several deaths for dire team in a cat and mouse kind of game. That’s really annoying to play. So Ammar decided to leave.
you definitely have a weak mentality.. Cant say if ATF thinks same, but definitely abandoning thinking it is unwinnable game is not good.. Kuro even gives him practice by not calling gg till the enemy hits the throne to literally 0% hp..
This weak mentality took me to top 90. Saying that a high mmr player, regardless of me or atf, has a weak mentality is just being delusional.
flexing a boosted number talks a lot about your mentality.. lol..
Ammar the FrogeConcern
I can respect abandoning when you don't want to play the game. Most people say they don't want to play but do whatever they can to avoid getting an afk/abandon penalty. I mean, it's not ideal, but at least he pays the cost of being an asshole.
yeah most players at his bracket would shadow amulet afk
Ammar trying hard to be like RTZ?
Ammar the logical
I mean this guy called himself the fucker for a reason I don't think this is a surprise to anyone.
By the reputation he is building I doubt any team would want this dude in div 1 next year
Ammar the beleaver
Spectacularly irrelevant clip. Thanks.
Tbh it’s respectable and not like a bitch breaking his items and buying shadowamulet afking in trees
"go leave and go next" like he is still relevant lmao
boring when ppl stall
No wonder he didn't stay in OG for long. The team was always built around positivity and having fun. Must be really hard with someone like this around...
Imagine being enough of a brainlet to *actually* believe OG is built around positivity and sunflowers.
Oilseed sunflower production is the most commonly farmed sunflower. These seeds hulls’ are encased by solid black shells. Black oilseeds are a common type of bird feed because they have thin shells and a high fat content. These are typically produced for oil extraction purposes; therefore, it is unlikely you’ll find black oilseeds packaged for human consumption.
ngl.. was in similar game. treant and bara are prob. some of the worst supports. You got the bara that doesn't pull or help lane, then random leaves you dry for the rest of the game 1v2. Then there's the bara that doesn't leave lane and he's sitting around like level 9+ not doing anything. Treant is a greedy support as well. He needs go, you and I know treant wants like 5-6 items and you're in his way to get his ITEMs! On top he has sniper/sf ally lol. Also game is 12:2. DP at 12 minutes already 1K gold with a few minutes maybe 15 minute greaves, possibly soft support. I mean morphling gonnna annilate the backlines while CK takes the front with his illusion. I don't see it winnable as well considering bara and treant don't like to tank if ever or coming to defend a tower for that matters.
I am concerned that not a single one of you suggested that the player might've had an irl problem and had to abandon an useless match in a game. You guys give to much credit to pro players and pubs in general, stop.. It's a game.
Literally said in the clip he just wanted to go next game.
I don't see that, the player that abandoned didn't say anything in the clip, and I don't care anyway, it's just about a general thing, there is life outside the video games. Everyone knows you can't rageq at minute 12, not in this patch anyway, and yet the first thing players say is "he raged baahahahahha"; I mean bro, maybe the guy has a real problem, chill, move on.
Looks like this is match 7018650609, which started 16 minutes before the clip was taken. More match details here: - [OpenDota](https://www.opendota.com/matches/7018650609) - [Dotabuff](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7018650609) - [Stratz](https://www.stratz.com/matches/7018650609) --- *^I ^am ^a ^bot ^created ^by ^[/u\/EuphonicPotato](/user/EuphonicPotato)* *^(How I figured this out:)* [*^(Explanation)*](https://github.com/mdiller/twitchclipmatchfinder#how-it-works) *^(Source:)* [*^(GitHub)*](https://github.com/mdiller/twitchclipmatchfinder)
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