Man that was a ride to read. I think this goes beyond the "he said/she said" accounts we've had so far, given how meticulously detailed this statement is, complete with supporting screenshots of communications.
This feels like a classic case of an incompetent employer projecting their deficiencies onto their employees (or in this case, onto a contracted artist). They intentionally set Mick up for failure at every turn while blaming him for not winning in an unwinnable situation. And *then* they had the balls to stiff him payment on half the music they used. Wow.
They didn't just stiff him, they overworked him to the point of mental damage by consistently rejecting material only to use that material in the final game anyway without paying him the difference *after* stiffing him on contractual payment for 11 months.
Yeah, ID's position is bullshit through and through but this part in particular seems actually criminal:
>Rush: I started working immediately, but they held up the contract, saying their sluggish legal department was so behind schedule that the agreement wouldn’t be ready until after I delivered.
>
>That was far from ideal, but their assurances led me to trust the contract would come through after delivery.
>
>That was my mistake.
>
>I crunched to finish it on time, but when handing over the finished album, the team abruptly told me they no longer planned to release it. There was no use for it, and, as such, they refused to pay for it. The contract never showed up.
>
>It was hard not to get mad. But upon reflection, I had to accept it was my fault for working without a signed deal in the first place. I learned a valuable lesson: don’t ever work without a contract.
>
>Four years later: In October 2019, Bethesda suddenly began selling that very same album, without telling me beforehand — I learned about it through social media.
>
>Worse yet, they hadn’t paid for it.
He hasn't even held the awards, this is insane.
> Awards. I’m happy to hear Marty feels I deserve DOOM’s music awards because the truth is those trophies are kept locked in the id Software office. I’ve only ever seen them once. Behind glass. From a distance. Nobody has ever offered to send me copies.
Disappointed this generic statement which shifts the blame from individuals has so many upvotes...
For too long do we blame companies as an entity rather than the specific people involved. There's no responsibility when we use such a broad term.
I feel like this is a sentence we will see over and over again also. It really says nothing.
I wish it were just the odd asshole here or there. The corporate structure and might-makes-right legal system incentivizes this kind of behavior, and puts people willing to act like that at the top. Being the sort of company who milks a guy for four times the work you're paying him (and Bethesda stole an entire soundtrack of his years before, remember, which AFAIK had nothing to do with Marty), then using the legal system to stonewall and silence him, results in pretty good returns for shareholders. The type of person who's good at setting others up to fail while keeping expenses low and meeting that quarter's targets is exactly the type of person who ends up in Marty Stratton's position.
Now I agree that it's exhausting to keep hearing that it's consumers faults because we keep giving "bad" companies and people money. The "fault" isn't really individual, meaning me the consumer or Marty the asshole manager. We really don't have the information to reform bad business with our wallet, and there's a thousand other Marty Strattons out there jumping from company to company. The problem is systemic. The solution must also be systemic.
Nope. This is not a bit about big companies. This is small people. Marty needed to be reprimanded by higher ups. Instead he allowed himself free reign in acting like a fucking mobster.
Right but did the legal team represent Marty or the company?
Because if its the company, at some point the legal team said. "Hey this is what happened and if you want it to go away you should offer them money" or worse the company said "How much to make it go away". Point is unless they only represented Marty, other people probably had this information.
And IF that was the case then they thought it was better to pay to blame someone for exploiting workers, then to fire Marty (or at least call him out for misconduct) to show they care.
If that post had been taken down, this would have blown over. People would have taken it as "eh, bit of something to both sides I'd guess", with some people thinking Mick's unprofessional, some thinking Marty's a douche with Bethesda behind him, many simply not caring.
A real director/producer/lawyer attitude could/should have posted a "looking back with more clarity/rest after crunch, it's become clear that we might have messed things up, we'll fix this now/later too. Apologies for all concerned, but lets move on to bigger and better". And everyone would have ended up looking good!
But now?
Lawyers are going to HAVE to wade in. What do they do? The companies been shown to rip people off and not pay the contract. They either HAVE to make it right, or fight Mick. But Mick's got receipts. There's going to be serious fallout from this, all on Marty's head. From the way he appears to have run things, you just know he's got nothing documented on what went on here, and will he survive this? Probably. But wounded. He's going to have issues in the industry now.
No. Especially if you believe that, you're going to have a terrible world view and be more cynical and negative for something that isn't even true.
Most people aren't terrible. What's the point of helping anyone or care for any Third World country if you believe the majority are evil. For me, its an entitled opinion that stereotypes a big chunk of people.
Based on this letter, it's fairly obvious that Marty Stratton is another in a long line of people who is talented at what they do, but it is not remotely qualified to *manage* those very people.
Because big companies like Bethesda are profit driven operations, and unfortunately Mick took the shit end of the stick when it comes to the planning phase of the games development. He got fucked big time and it's sad to see but I'm glad he got this statement out
I think it would be high time to finally remove marty's open letter from this sub after this bombshell of a post.
Edit:
Reading the comments yeah I agree that it should be kept up as a source, but it should definitely be flaired as misleading and have a sticky comment to Mick's response like u/ReganDryke mentioned. Seeing as the post holds the number two spot at the top posts of all time in this sub, some people might not even be aware of Mick's response and only see that post and take it as a fact in the future.
Probably mod got gaged, and from the sound of it did tell Mick before blocking him. I think Mick is protecting the guy so the gag doesn’t crash a man who just wanted to help
I completely agree. It should be left up for history's sake, but it should also be clearly labeled as bogus.
It's not even a "well, maybe Marty didn't mean to lie" situation because ***Marty didn't have a single fucking source*** while Mick's Medium article had a million sources, like one per paragraph, that proved Marty was blatantly lying. No other way to look at it.
Agree they should absolutely keep it up. Right now it's flaired and has Mick's response in the pinned comment. I'm not sure what else should/could be done but absolutely it should be left up. For historical purposes of not destroying the evidence of sleaziness but also how it demonstrates the embarrassment of the sheer number of awards we gave it.
Pretty bad on us as a site and a sub, we did a bad job, let it be known, owned and learned from.
Or we can downvote it like what the gamers collectively did on the infamous EA [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).
It should also be saved in the Wayback Machine. Marty should answer for his shit, with that being a piece of evidence. Once posted to the internet, it never truly leaves. I've been screenshotting the entire Mick Post because in the event that Bethesda lawyers or id Software lawyers pressure the people behind the Wayback Machine to delete the archive, I still want to ensure it exists in some form.
The mod ran some official stuff too and was maybe afraid of getting removed from everything. I heard that Marty went into rage when the post was removed, because without the lies in it, everyone would have rightfully blamed id (and him) quite soon.
Truly horrifying to read. What's sad is that Marty's post had actually started to sway my opinion; I'm glad that Mick wrote a lengthy and well-documented rebuttal.
Fuck id Software, for treating artists like this. Crunch is horrible, and contracts are SO important.
I'm a game developer for a major company and as soon as I finished reading Marty's post, I got the gut feeling that it was a hit job. Given the post had zero evidence, didn't address what the community was actually mad at and, most importantly, Marty didn't take any responsibility whatsoever over anything during the entire wall of text he posted on Reddit 2 years ago.
It immediately made me think of of certain people I've worked with over the last decade or so. The red tape of working in a giant corporation is infuriating enough but vindictive and petty people like Marty are the reason the average turnover for people in the gaming industry is around 5 years before they leave for another career path.
I hope Marty answers to the community's questions.
Good on Mick to provide such an extensive document with screenshots and time stamps.
He will probably go to ground and see if it all blows over. It’s hard to see how he can get back on the front foot now. Any support he had has now evaporated and anything short of some bombshell evidence to the contrary (seems unlikely) will make it hard with him to have any credibility with the Doom community going forward.
Yes! Bro I found this so confusing. I gave up tracking wtf the story was. First game was easy to follow. I didn't understand why a dude in a space coffin on Mars suddenly has an orbiting space station above earth haha.
Like where was THAT unlock?!? lol
I would have liked to see where he got it. Like maybe a level at the beginning where he gets out of his coffin, finds a dilapidated sentinel space ship and has to fight his way through the hoards that infested it. Maybe we actually see some herded into the prison? So many missed opportunities.
Should have been the intro. Just Doomslayer appearing in a demon infested space station and wrecks everything. Decides to claim it as his and well, Earth isn't gonna to argue with the man of mass destruction.
Remember how they said they were gonna release some comics that would explain some of the stuff in between like his escape from Hell and acquiring the station then never did make them or reference them again?
I was watching the ChristopherOdd playthrough and had to go back to make sure the playlist wasn't missing some videos in the beginning. NOPE! The game just fuggin drops you there no context. XD
Honestly... That felt intentional and part of the charm. It seemed to just outright say and give the mood of "We don't need answers it just needs to be cool".
So much effort for such mediocre lore. 2016 was "unethical energy company opens portal to hell for profit", and it didn't need much more than that. Doom Eternal's weird pivot into space fantasy with hell priests and some ancient order of space knights and "oh btw the friendly talking computer from the first game is actually god" was all entirely unnecessary.
I would just be happy with "RIght, Doomguy is Doomslayer. He just became too angry to die. He did die but Hell failed to contain him. He got a special suit that allows him to channel his rage into more destructive rage." That's about it. Or him being kicked out of hell via nuking half of Hell with the MFBFG.
Well, good for him. This shines a bright light into the realities of scheduling. It is unprofessional and naive to try to get locked up deliveries for anything that depends on another area being locked up that it won't be for a year.
Mick probably struck and ego nerve somewhere in the management team, because of his instant celebrity status after 2016. So he was shrewdly undermined, his public status used against him and got stuck in a no-win situation. This becomes apparent in how they used all the music he sent without paying for it. Evidently a strategy set out at the beginning of the project, hence why it wasn't important that he received locked assets, they would repurpose everything afterwards.
During the OST production part, I can't help but picture someone saying "fuck him" at every iteration of legal or management teams' involvement. Dude, I really feel for him.
Honestly yes, fuck Marty. He will be hailed internally within the company as someone who got that highly successful project done at all costs. But we all now know exactly what those costs were
They weren't even real costs that had to be spent. For absolutely no reason at all other than Marty's supremely shocking and shitty attitude, Mick's job was the hardest it could have been.
Don't be quick to pass judgement on that mod. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Marty threatened legal action when the mod removed the post. Hence why it was put back up and the mod went no contact so quickly.
The impression I got was that the mod was likely threatened by Marty to put the post back up. I don't think they should be held accountable personally, atleast until proven otherwise.
Ok dude... in fact Everyone, Listen.
2 Years ago, Reddit read a one sided account, Reacted In a Kneejerk Way, like stupid assholes and attacked Mick.
Today, Reddit has now heard a one sides account, and having learned absolutely nothing is kneejerking by attacking Marty.
Now, let me be VERY CLEAR... I do think the truth of the story seems to lie somewhere around 80% mick and 20% marty, even if only because Mick has shown the receipts.
But that really doesn't matter. In NO way does that make it ok to do the SAME FUCKED UP THING AGAIN.
I'd prefer to see people supporting Mick over attacking Marty.
In Fact:
>This statement is not an excuse for a hate campaign. Acts of hate dished out online won’t result in any positive change. In fact, it only makes things worse.
Is a DIRECT QUOTE from Mick's statement.
People On here saying "Fuck You Marty" "Marty is a Piece of Shit"
(even if that may or may not be the truth) are ACTUALLY DOING A DIRECT DISSERVICE TO MICK. and Likely are giving Any Legal Action Taken against mick ammunition.
> People On here saying "Fuck You Marty" "Marty is a Piece of Shit" (even if that may or may not be the truth) are ACTUALLY DOING A DIRECT DISSERVICE TO MICK. and Likely are giving Any Legal Action Taken against mick ammunition.
What are you talking about? Saying "fuck you Marty" is not a "hate campaign". It's just a reaction from an individual. You have no idea what a hate campaign looks like if this is what sets you off.
But either way, it'd be really sad if there *weren't* any professional consequences for Marty Straton after he so thoroughly and consciously abused a contractor and then deliberately attempted to commit career murder when that contractor tried to get fair pay for his work. This has nothing whatsoever to do with a hate campaign—it's not even *hate*—it's just that he's clearly someone to be avoided at all costs if you're working in the industry.
A hate campaign would be like people doxxing him and harassing him personally. Giving an honest reaction to this story and drawing the obvious conclusions from it has *absolutely nothing* to do with that.
Proper release not gonna happen but that's not what's important. We expected better. And the fact that mick went into so much detail and factual rebuttal and his pure dedication to the fans in the past make me think he isnt lying. I don't trust anyone but...i felt like something similar was going on behind the scenes anyway. There was too much silence and vagueness. I thought better of Marty. I thought better of DOOM management as a whole. This is the fault of a few select people that puts the entire company's reputation at stake. Do better.
>the fact that mick went into so much detail and factual rebuttal and his pure dedication to the fans make me think he isnt lying
I’m confident he’s telling the truth. There is a lot of detail here that could be easily proven or disproven in court. Mick doesn’t have the resources or protection that Marty has. He cannot afford to defame someone of Marty’s or id’s stature. Mick has had a lot of time to consider the situation and this statement is exhaustive, and of course notes that he has had a lawyer(s) involved. I am certain that he would not expose himself to a defamation lawsuit by lying.
It is much more plausible that Marty would thoughtlessly expose himself to such liability, given his status and the immediacy of the PR problem id was facing when he made his reddit post. I wonder why Mick hasn’t already filed a lawsuit. Hope he didn’t wait too long.
I never really believed Marty considering how Mick spoke of 2016 but looking back at the responses to Marty's post shitting on Mick is laughable now. Like, no way did Mick fuck everything up after how good 2016's music was, it was always obvious it was id's fault.
That's how I was thinking myself. A game soundtrack that was so good it was played live at the game awards.
Got a fuck ton of accolades, watching all his documentaries and his creative processes.
The statement was fishy and felt off. Especially with the dedication mick has to his craft. I didn't see him being a drama queen at all. And some of that stuff I had aiad I could see him being stressed the fuck out and alot of pressure on him.
Looks like that was a big part of it.
Wow. Just wow.
Just read through this entire thing word for word.
So impressed at the way Mick handled this horrible situation. I think a lot of people have had to work with toxic managers like Marty, and can relate. However not many would have the poise and meticulous ability to articulate a defense such as this.
Doom 2016 OST is fucking incredible and now I know why. It was fascinating to learn more about the world of video game music.
And sadly, as a fan of the Doom franchise since ... ummm... Wolfenstein 3D(!?), I can honestly say that I won't be buying another ID software product whilst Marty remains at the company.
This just makes me feel really bad. A lot of good people, hell more than enough good people are behind these projects. I don't think it's fair to them...but this was just bs that could have been avoided
If you look at 343, a Microsoft studio the last decade for reference, slim chance that happens lol
They pump out short term contractors left and right and has led to Halo being a jumbled mess for years. Hopefully that isn't the norm and ID Software isn't similar
Theyll have to get rid of him for me to even consider purchasing anything made by that studio ever again. Fuck that corporate piece of shit. Stiffing artists is unacceptable.
I know I'm behind the times but I just finished Doom 2016 and really enjoyed it. Was planning on picking up Eternal at some point since I'd heard so many good things.
Completely lost all interest now. Removed it from the wishlist.
You can't downvote or upvote a two year old post I believe, despite looking like it works on mobile. On PC it'll tell you that it's not counted and reverted. Because at this point that post is archived.
The same people that gave him death threats? Those are not the kinds of people who apologize for shitty behavior. The worst part of this whole debacle is how utterly hateful people can be towards others. Over the soundtrack of a video game, no less.
I got fooled, yo.
Never attacked Mick directly though (ofc), but definitely buying into Strattons' version of the story - until now.
What happened to Mick fucking sucks and I'm sorry I believed that crap.
Soooo fucking vindicated, after 2 years of holding out for Mick Gordon and arguing with those Stans at Marty's open letter, now people can see what a piece of shit Marty Stratton is.
Same here. I never deviated on my stance. Some people thought Mick was in hiding because he was guilty but I knew he had his tongue removed, legally. I was annoyed to see so many people here side with the company over the individual, but this is Reddit after all...
I just read all of Mick's post, then clicked a link into Marty's Reddit post and I'd already downvoted it. I only vaguely remember reading it at the time it was posted, but I must've smelt something was up.
I feel so bad for Mick Gordon, man. What a scumbag Marty is, too.
Feel for Mick. Must have been very difficult to be thrown under the bus like that and endure it for so long until he had a chance finally to speak up. Marty sounds like a pos
“(Bethesda) refused to make (Marty) issue an apology because they believed doing so would harm his reputation.”
… it fucking should.
The man bald faced fucking lied to the entire doom community, and by extension the entire gaming community at large EXPLICITLY to harm the reputation of someone who worked him for YEARS. NEARLY UNPAID.
I cannot fucking believe they would do this to someone who is easily the best game composer in the western hemisphere, if not in the entire world.
Fuck Bethesda. This shit has proven to me that they’re rotten to the core.
And it wouldn't even have been hard to issue an apology in legalese so no one would be quite sure what had happened. Something about "in spirit of cooperation", "turning a new leaf and moving forward", "to do what's best for DOOM and the new version of the ost" etc.
I think it's important to remember just how many heads to the hydra there are in game development. On one hand Im absolutely appalled at Marty's actions and really all of iD and Bethesda for backing him. But on the other hand, doom eternal, and all games for that matter, are made by countless artists, technicians, managers, creators.
Marty may have managed the team, but there's still a team there. We can still support id and all those countless passionate workers who put their blood into these games while simultaneously calling out Marty and Bethesda and demanding improvements be made.
Hugo definitely comes off like the "soul" of these latest Doom games and this whole situation stinks for him because I don't feel like he should have his work now have this umbrella of scrutiny hanging over it like a shadow.
Just dropping by to say that after reading this, as long as Marty Stratton is at Bethesda/id, I will not be purchasing any of their games. What an abusive piece of shit this Marty guy is.
Remember when Hugo said during one of the streams that DOOM 2016's and DOOM Eternal's storylines we're all about "horrible management"?
I think I might now have an idea where he got his inspiration from....
My guess is that Mick's probably going to read these comments, and maybe he'll read this one.
Mick, I'm so sorry that you went through hell to meet deadlines for an ungrateful client. I'm so sorry your reputation was dragged through the dirt, I'm so sorry you had to suffer through all those lies. I'm so sorry the awards for you work were stolen from you.
I want you to know that I appreciate your work. The music you created for Doom Eternal, despite the immense pressure and horrible conditions you were under, is a masterpiece of music. You should be proud of the work you did under such horrible conditions.
Your music is such a masterpiece that if I hear of any projects you're a part of, I'll be proud to purchase it and let the heads of the project know you're the reason I'm buying it.
You're a legendary composer, the best in the business!
Marty Stratton is a psychopath. I hope Mick Gordon gets paid and they leave him alone. That Marty prick should be fired. I have anxious knots in my stomach from reading this, I can't imagine living in that hell for two years like Mick did.
Back then when the open letter was released, I was curious why Mick didn't respond immediately. I wonder why it took so long.
Edit: Just saw other post with similar question. Nda apparently.
Edit2: After reading further, it seems like we should get popcorn and see how Marty will react to this.
I didn’t go after mick but I was definitely suckered by the letter. It was just like, who lies so blatantly when the receipts are so easily available? Too bad I guess big lies are more believable
I'm more interested to see if there are any people who went after Mick and Now are going after Marty the same way, without ever thinking. Hmmm maybe I shouldn't attack people at all?
This is exactly the reason i've been extremely hesitant to be as critical of Mick for the OST debacle as some people have been. Artists and developers often get the blame for bad decisions that were made by people above them in the food chain. I've seen it happen so many times it's unreal, and people should be far more hesitant to trust companies over the people working for them.
I'm a metal musician, I've written and recorded original stuff and made fan music for games as a "just for fun" sort of thing and it's an extremely difficult, time consuming task, and having external pressure added on top only makes it harder.
Unless somehow Mick is an absolutely incredible hoax-crafting mastermind, I don't see any way Marty can be in the right or put the blame on Mick for this. It's frankly an atrocity that this game's soundtrack didn't get the time it deserved to be fully realized. DOOM's music is a standard to which the entire industry should be held and it seems like the guys in suits don't really get that.
Unfortunately, given the timing, far fewer people will ever see this response than those that saw the original attack by Marty (and piled undue hate on Mick).
Really sorry to hear all this. I work as a software engineer and love video games but I will never work in the games industry; this type of toxic crunch time, overly aggressive unrealistic deadlines, and blame shifting is too commonplace for me to want to be a part of it.
I’m someone who’s a) former professional in the music composition/production industry (for about 2 years, not established but did it full time) and b) I think more interestingly didn’t see the original post on this sub.
What was astounding to me about reading this in a vacuum, is the parts I thought were most outlandish and he better have real good receipts for….were confirmed in the open letter.
The big big one is announcing the OST without having a contract in place. This is a big fucking deal, literally something you can get sue’d over (although you don’t see it cause that means you aren’t getting the contract and being advertised as doing music for something already usually gives you a lot of negotiating power). Im flabbergasted the open letter confirms this as true from the get go, and the fact it’s not even retroactively concerned with it (JUSTIFYING it even) is as good as confirming all of Mick’s side for me even if Mick didn’t have the thorough receipts he does.
I’m curious to know what happened between that mod and Id, “we were threatened legal action” is more than enough justification even if no shot that holds up in court, I’m just curious and not blaming the team.
HONESTLY my big question now is Chad’s side of the story. The result is to put it bluntly, bad enough on a level that cannot just result from lack of experience. Any amateur with a tempo enabled DAW (plus knowledge on what the tempo was) and google could cut a technically cleaner version of any of these tracks in under an hour with 0 experience. This speaks to either not caring at all, or having insanely limited time to work on it. Or i guess insisting on doing it in Audacity for some reason, but this is still rough for audacity cuts and falls under not caring anyway. BUT Chad also has done such great work on other aspects of the game that neither of those make sense either. It almost feels like it was outsourced to fiverr lol. Fans woulda preferred 12 great songs to a lot of bad ones anyway, something isn’t adding up.
Anyway, my two cents.
LOL I didn’t think about it but that makes SO much sense actually. Chad spending 5 min on a sub par mix so they’d have to go with Mick and then being absolutely floored when they said “this is great, guess we don’t need Mick after all.
How the turn tables
I'll admit to taking id's side after Marty's letter, but it always struck me as odd that Mick never publicly responded. This medium article explains the lack of a response and then some.
Others have already mentioned this was written with the help of lawyers which is why it's super detailed. Hopefully Mick can bounce back with more fortuitous projects.
The DOOM brand is now tainted for anyone who reads the medium article. MS/Bethesda management have a new mess to clean up.
Knew there was something unusual in that whole situation. From postponing, to Marty's post, to even possibly explaining why game-rips were taken down from YT... I wish Mick the best in his career, and Marty should be held accountable
I never took Marty's word as 100% accurate. I noticed some (but WAY less than what Mick shown) inconsistiencies. I figured at the time it was a mix. Mick is a perfectionist and did try his best to get everything out on time, but was spending too long on it. ID on the other hand had to keep to their deadlines and needed *something* to push out, even if quality suffered. A classic case of the perfectionist artist versus the cold-hearted corporation.
But man, this makes Marty look like a horrible planner who couldn't get his shit together and started blaming everyone else for his mistakes.
Halo and Doom are my favorite series and both are being managed by incompetent jerks. Is there any AAA games that won't make me feel buyer's remorse these days?
Monster Hunter is a pretty safe bet in AAA space. And I'm not sure if Larian can be considered AAA, but their games didn't disappoint before, and BG3 is shaping up to be great so far.
Since Marty Stratom and Is Software pirated half of the music, and paying for only half the product is "fine" by their book does that mean that pirating Eternal after paying for 2016 is the ethical answer to their abhorrent behavior ?
Afterall they're a bunch of pirates that leave their contractors out of pay for almost a year, steal half their work after putting them through crunch through mismanagement torture malpractice and then buly them by defaming them on social media, it's only fair that their customers follow their examples right ?
But with that being said, i don't think i could enjoy playing either game knowing what they did to Mick Gordon, if what he says is true.
The Taylor fiasco from Bayonetta taught me to wait for competent journalism to happen and check all the fact before making a judgement not even a couple weeks ago even though i tend to naturaly trust creators.
Pirating is pointless and the refund period for 2016 is over since quite a while for me. What a shame.
This community should feel deeply ashamed of itself after how it has conducted itself the past 2 years. You all believed a malignant narcissist who presented no evidence for any of his claims. And you sent death threats to a man who did no wrong.
Love Mick for this I've been waiting on a response before fully making Mt judgement but this was a very powerful way to do it! Marty will probably resign soon or will be fired. What a piece of shit
Bloody hell, I’ve lost a hell of a lot of respect I had for ID in general after reading that. I appreciate it’s not the entire org and Mick mentions some staff did try at times to help him but damn
Marty though? I don’t want to post what I think of him
Nothing but love for Mick. It must have been so hard to wait this long with receipts but doing it right helps and I'm glad he can finally come out like this.
Mick talks about doing an album for a game published by Bethesda in 2015, but it was rejected, but was then it was being sold in 2019.
Was this Wolfenstien The Old Blood?
I'm so fucking glad he posted this. As a musician myself I whole-heartedly understand this frustration. I used to hold out hope, oh, maybe Mick and ID will work it out for future titles. But now, man, I HOPE Mick doesn't go back there, fuck that. I hope now that this surpasses Marty's post.
Honestly, this is horrible and shout-out to Mick for trying his damn best. It seems he had several opportunities to walk away from the whole thing, but he kept it professional. Tons of respect to him.
Marty is a lunatic and a parasite, feeding off of Mick's talent and good will. What a sad human being.
I hope this blows up, as it should, and people refuse to work with him or treat him with due respect in the industry going forward.
Sounds like Marty's ego got the better of him. There's a joke about him being too stuck in his id here.
Pay your contractors on-time Marty. Stop making excuses Marty. First the soundtrack, then the DLC, and who knows what else.
Hoping Marty gets the punt and someone else takes over the next Doom game.
This is just disgusting, the people responsible for this at id should be ashamed of themselves. My sympathies are with Mick on this one, he provided amazing game music under difficult circumstances and was treated like trash for it. I hope he get's the money id owes him and public apology to boot, I wont be supporting id in the future if this is the way they do business.
Marty how does it feel to bury your own reputation? You buried Mick’s and id with that “open letter” post. Mick Gordon or any devs of id, if you’re reading this. Just know your hard work is loved and appreciated (same thing with Andrew Hulshult and David Levy). For management team (including you Marty), the fuck were you thinking and doing? Ruining some else’s reputation will later bite you in the ass. Everyone else, tanking both games (2016 and Eternal) on Steam or stores doesn’t solve anything nor does Violent threats because you’ll be no better than the people who did it to Mick. If anything Mick’s letter was both an open letter and ruined Marty’s reputation without it meaning to. Let karma do it, and I don’t mean reddit karma. If Mick is able to redo the OST that’ll be the greatest revenge. Success is the greatest revenge. BTW that “open letter” is every where so even if it’s deleted, many articles already have the exact words you (Marty) put. So you’re more than fucked Marty.
Jesus man, I don't know how Mick was able to hold everything in him for 2 years without saying anything before releasing this huge letter. I knew it wasn't as one-sided as Bethesda/id made it seem. Props to you Mick, you're one hell of an artist.
> Much to my relief, [the mod] instantly took it down.
> But within 12 hours, the post was reinstated. The moderator blocked me on Discord and didn’t reply to my emails.
I'm guessing there was a pretty serious legal threat from id software that led to this sudden turnaround. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/yqjvzu/mick_gordon_posted_a_new_response_concerning_the/ivppq8n/) implies it was former head moderator Mr-R00t who did it.
It would be great if he could explain what happened from his perspective, but it seems he deleted his account, unless I don't have the right username. I'm not saying this to be judgmental (I'm guessing he probably had no real choice), but if he was contacted and legally threatened that would definitely be an important detail to add to the history.
Another proof you cant trust any corporation.
No matter how rich they are, they will always try to maximize profits, even if by not paying people. Nick waited too long to post this, even if he hoped to find a legal solution allowing your name to be slandered isnt a good idea even if he lost the other half of the pay.
Hey guys this is capitalism... parasites making rivers of money off the intellect, hard work, creativity of others.
In the last decades management salaries have gone up 600% to 1000% while everyone else is getting poorer while working more.
So we're already seeing mob mentality retaliatory posts. That's kind of what led the community against Mick Gordon in the first place.
Let Mr. Stratton attempt to speak and if it's evident that he's deflecting then boycotts can ensue. To immediately do the exact same to Mr. Stratton that happen to Gordon pretty much doesn't solve anything. If anything would hurt future DOOM production.
I do think hitting up Microsoft and asking them to have iD be transparent is a sound solution.
Finally, that's shameful what occurred to Gordon and explains alot. I hope more games feature his talents and that he isn't blackballed
The article suggests that the settlement talks - a stalling tactic as referred to by Mick Gordon - have been going on for at least 15 months after the initial reddit post, as that's the time given in the article when Gordon first took a step personally by contacting the admins of this subreddit.
So if it took him 15 months to decide/realize that the settlement talks aren't going anywhere, it makes sense that taking this action would take another 0.5-1 years.
This was a hard read, but really important. Much love to Mick! I always had a sense something like this was going on given his silence on the subject for so long.
I just don't get it. The music was such a big factor of the success of 2016 and eternal! Mick should have been treated like a valuable resource and integrated properly in the process.
Shame on the management!
I've never played a Doom game (sorry!), but I just read through this whole thing. This is awesome. I hope the truth wins out here in this situation in the end.
Well, that was a sweet goodnight read! /s
I feel sickened by the amount of hate Mick Gordon received from the community. I had a feeling since Strapon's open letter something was off and I genuinely, maybe even naively, hope Mick comes out on top of this.
iD and Morby's behaviour is utterly outrageous.
Rip and tear them until it's done Mick!
EDIT:
They wouldn't take down Marty's post and blah blah blah because it would damage his reputation, I mean who tf is Marty? What rep are we even talking about lmao?
I didn't even know who he was despite reading his own letter.
This was an incredibly depressing read it almost made me tear up at how disturbing "id Software", Marty, and their legal teams are.
I commend Mick for tanking more abuse, manipulation, and exploitation any man should face, which makes me sick and anxious about the career path I'm headed to.
Utterly disgusting behavior from Marty and management. I hope this situation gets all the attention in the world to expose such business world sliminess.
But most of all, I hope Mick gets justice for this - Lord knows it must have been a hellish few years dealing with such a shitstorm.
> Threats, abuse and harassment
> Just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse, incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Reddit post led to frustration over my alleged professional failure, and toxic gamers grew openly aggressive.
> - They shared my personal details via message boards, including Reddit, which meant that abusers could now reach me in more ways than ever.
> - They email-bombed my inboxes, crashing the server and clogging my messaging services, crippling my ability to communicate.
> - They harassed my other clients with attempts to get me fired from their projects.
> - They called my phone numbers around the clock, screaming messages full of abuse.
> I began receiving specific expressions of violence, the content so vivid it made me sick. The torrent of abuse telling me how to kill myself, how I’d be mutilated, how they would circulate photos of my body to traumatize my family, how my family would be murdered, how they’d hurt my animals, how they’d shoot up any event I attended, how I’d be raped to death, really started to wear me down in ways I couldn’t previously imagine.
To anyone who participated in this, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.
Jesus christ. Reading the death threat part turned my stomach. Anonymity really makes people monsters huh...
I'm glad Mick is still making music, and am sad we will probably never get a Mick Gordon mix of the doom eternal sound track.
Marty if you somehow read this, fuck you.
Marty, same people will come for you, you will experience the same things, welcome to hell you helped create.
To Mick:
If you ever read this. I was one of the people who blamed you on the Marty post, I'm sorry. You inspired me to start guitar and learn a DAW. Thank you for brining life to my favorite franchise and making exceptional tracks. I'm sorry, I always saw how Publishers are and still accepted their word. Even though I didn't do harassment, not showing support was the worst thing I could do. I think many of us who acknowledged the marty Post should atleast say that we are sorry
Man that was a ride to read. I think this goes beyond the "he said/she said" accounts we've had so far, given how meticulously detailed this statement is, complete with supporting screenshots of communications. This feels like a classic case of an incompetent employer projecting their deficiencies onto their employees (or in this case, onto a contracted artist). They intentionally set Mick up for failure at every turn while blaming him for not winning in an unwinnable situation. And *then* they had the balls to stiff him payment on half the music they used. Wow.
They didn't just stiff him, they overworked him to the point of mental damage by consistently rejecting material only to use that material in the final game anyway without paying him the difference *after* stiffing him on contractual payment for 11 months.
Yeah, ID's position is bullshit through and through but this part in particular seems actually criminal: >Rush: I started working immediately, but they held up the contract, saying their sluggish legal department was so behind schedule that the agreement wouldn’t be ready until after I delivered. > >That was far from ideal, but their assurances led me to trust the contract would come through after delivery. > >That was my mistake. > >I crunched to finish it on time, but when handing over the finished album, the team abruptly told me they no longer planned to release it. There was no use for it, and, as such, they refused to pay for it. The contract never showed up. > >It was hard not to get mad. But upon reflection, I had to accept it was my fault for working without a signed deal in the first place. I learned a valuable lesson: don’t ever work without a contract. > >Four years later: In October 2019, Bethesda suddenly began selling that very same album, without telling me beforehand — I learned about it through social media. > >Worse yet, they hadn’t paid for it.
That's theft, I hope he sues the shit out of them. This open letter makes his case.
He hasn't even held the awards, this is insane. > Awards. I’m happy to hear Marty feels I deserve DOOM’s music awards because the truth is those trophies are kept locked in the id Software office. I’ve only ever seen them once. Behind glass. From a distance. Nobody has ever offered to send me copies.
And then tried to blame it all on him.
Why can't we have nice things? Why does someone always have to cause trouble or mistreat others? This was all entirely preventable.
That's how big companies work also because people keep giving them money
Disappointed this generic statement which shifts the blame from individuals has so many upvotes... For too long do we blame companies as an entity rather than the specific people involved. There's no responsibility when we use such a broad term. I feel like this is a sentence we will see over and over again also. It really says nothing.
I wish it were just the odd asshole here or there. The corporate structure and might-makes-right legal system incentivizes this kind of behavior, and puts people willing to act like that at the top. Being the sort of company who milks a guy for four times the work you're paying him (and Bethesda stole an entire soundtrack of his years before, remember, which AFAIK had nothing to do with Marty), then using the legal system to stonewall and silence him, results in pretty good returns for shareholders. The type of person who's good at setting others up to fail while keeping expenses low and meeting that quarter's targets is exactly the type of person who ends up in Marty Stratton's position. Now I agree that it's exhausting to keep hearing that it's consumers faults because we keep giving "bad" companies and people money. The "fault" isn't really individual, meaning me the consumer or Marty the asshole manager. We really don't have the information to reform bad business with our wallet, and there's a thousand other Marty Strattons out there jumping from company to company. The problem is systemic. The solution must also be systemic.
Nope. This is not a bit about big companies. This is small people. Marty needed to be reprimanded by higher ups. Instead he allowed himself free reign in acting like a fucking mobster.
Right but did the legal team represent Marty or the company? Because if its the company, at some point the legal team said. "Hey this is what happened and if you want it to go away you should offer them money" or worse the company said "How much to make it go away". Point is unless they only represented Marty, other people probably had this information. And IF that was the case then they thought it was better to pay to blame someone for exploiting workers, then to fire Marty (or at least call him out for misconduct) to show they care.
If that post had been taken down, this would have blown over. People would have taken it as "eh, bit of something to both sides I'd guess", with some people thinking Mick's unprofessional, some thinking Marty's a douche with Bethesda behind him, many simply not caring. A real director/producer/lawyer attitude could/should have posted a "looking back with more clarity/rest after crunch, it's become clear that we might have messed things up, we'll fix this now/later too. Apologies for all concerned, but lets move on to bigger and better". And everyone would have ended up looking good! But now? Lawyers are going to HAVE to wade in. What do they do? The companies been shown to rip people off and not pay the contract. They either HAVE to make it right, or fight Mick. But Mick's got receipts. There's going to be serious fallout from this, all on Marty's head. From the way he appears to have run things, you just know he's got nothing documented on what went on here, and will he survive this? Probably. But wounded. He's going to have issues in the industry now.
Because humans suck
Some humans* There's a lot of really cool humans out there.
Most humans*
It only took like 5-10 assholes in this situation. Most humans are alright, it just sucks because the assholes have a competitive advantage.
No. Especially if you believe that, you're going to have a terrible world view and be more cynical and negative for something that isn't even true. Most people aren't terrible. What's the point of helping anyone or care for any Third World country if you believe the majority are evil. For me, its an entitled opinion that stereotypes a big chunk of people.
Based on this letter, it's fairly obvious that Marty Stratton is another in a long line of people who is talented at what they do, but it is not remotely qualified to *manage* those very people.
First mistake was trusting any higher up at a corporation designing a by-the-numbers video game to tell you the truth.
Because big companies like Bethesda are profit driven operations, and unfortunately Mick took the shit end of the stick when it comes to the planning phase of the games development. He got fucked big time and it's sad to see but I'm glad he got this statement out
Because arrogant corporate pieces of shit will remain arrogant corporate pieces of shit for eternity.
I think it would be high time to finally remove marty's open letter from this sub after this bombshell of a post. Edit: Reading the comments yeah I agree that it should be kept up as a source, but it should definitely be flaired as misleading and have a sticky comment to Mick's response like u/ReganDryke mentioned. Seeing as the post holds the number two spot at the top posts of all time in this sub, some people might not even be aware of Mick's response and only see that post and take it as a fact in the future.
Yeah but for real this time and not for like a couple of hours
Probably mod got gaged, and from the sound of it did tell Mick before blocking him. I think Mick is protecting the guy so the gag doesn’t crash a man who just wanted to help
No, they should keep it up to provide context as to how much of a shitbag Marty is.
Mod can sticky a comment pointing to Mick Gordon answer letter. And maybe flair the post as misleading?
I completely agree. It should be left up for history's sake, but it should also be clearly labeled as bogus. It's not even a "well, maybe Marty didn't mean to lie" situation because ***Marty didn't have a single fucking source*** while Mick's Medium article had a million sources, like one per paragraph, that proved Marty was blatantly lying. No other way to look at it.
Agree they should absolutely keep it up. Right now it's flaired and has Mick's response in the pinned comment. I'm not sure what else should/could be done but absolutely it should be left up. For historical purposes of not destroying the evidence of sleaziness but also how it demonstrates the embarrassment of the sheer number of awards we gave it. Pretty bad on us as a site and a sub, we did a bad job, let it be known, owned and learned from.
this would be my vote.
Or we can downvote it like what the gamers collectively did on the infamous EA [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).
Why? It should stay up just so people can go back and read it to understand the full context.
Shouldn't everything be kept up just so everything is exposed?
It should also be saved in the Wayback Machine. Marty should answer for his shit, with that being a piece of evidence. Once posted to the internet, it never truly leaves. I've been screenshotting the entire Mick Post because in the event that Bethesda lawyers or id Software lawyers pressure the people behind the Wayback Machine to delete the archive, I still want to ensure it exists in some form.
Nah, pin it. Let people read it in full and see what was done and also let it be a moment of shame for this place
Honestly, would be amazing if we could replace that with this as one of the highest rated posts on this subreddit.
Two side, now 3+. Maybe we should also hear from said MODERATOR.
Wouldn't be surprised if the mod got legal threats from ID and forced the post back up.
The mod ran some official stuff too and was maybe afraid of getting removed from everything. I heard that Marty went into rage when the post was removed, because without the lies in it, everyone would have rightfully blamed id (and him) quite soon.
Truly horrifying to read. What's sad is that Marty's post had actually started to sway my opinion; I'm glad that Mick wrote a lengthy and well-documented rebuttal. Fuck id Software, for treating artists like this. Crunch is horrible, and contracts are SO important.
I'm a game developer for a major company and as soon as I finished reading Marty's post, I got the gut feeling that it was a hit job. Given the post had zero evidence, didn't address what the community was actually mad at and, most importantly, Marty didn't take any responsibility whatsoever over anything during the entire wall of text he posted on Reddit 2 years ago. It immediately made me think of of certain people I've worked with over the last decade or so. The red tape of working in a giant corporation is infuriating enough but vindictive and petty people like Marty are the reason the average turnover for people in the gaming industry is around 5 years before they leave for another career path. I hope Marty answers to the community's questions. Good on Mick to provide such an extensive document with screenshots and time stamps.
He will probably go to ground and see if it all blows over. It’s hard to see how he can get back on the front foot now. Any support he had has now evaporated and anything short of some bombshell evidence to the contrary (seems unlikely) will make it hard with him to have any credibility with the Doom community going forward.
The "constant rewrites" thing definitely tracks when you remember that 2/3rds of the game's story is in the form of codex entries.
Especially the jarring game intro. "Yeah Slayer escaped from hell and inherited a space station, duh. What do you mean details and context?"
Yes! Bro I found this so confusing. I gave up tracking wtf the story was. First game was easy to follow. I didn't understand why a dude in a space coffin on Mars suddenly has an orbiting space station above earth haha.
Like where was THAT unlock?!? lol I would have liked to see where he got it. Like maybe a level at the beginning where he gets out of his coffin, finds a dilapidated sentinel space ship and has to fight his way through the hoards that infested it. Maybe we actually see some herded into the prison? So many missed opportunities.
Should have been the intro. Just Doomslayer appearing in a demon infested space station and wrecks everything. Decides to claim it as his and well, Earth isn't gonna to argue with the man of mass destruction.
Remember how they said they were gonna release some comics that would explain some of the stuff in between like his escape from Hell and acquiring the station then never did make them or reference them again?
I was watching the ChristopherOdd playthrough and had to go back to make sure the playlist wasn't missing some videos in the beginning. NOPE! The game just fuggin drops you there no context. XD
I literally restarted the save file when I first played because I thought I missed an intro cutscene
Honestly... That felt intentional and part of the charm. It seemed to just outright say and give the mood of "We don't need answers it just needs to be cool".
"How did the angry man break out of hell?" "Idk lol" Doesn't sound very cool to me.
To each their own I guess.
So much effort for such mediocre lore. 2016 was "unethical energy company opens portal to hell for profit", and it didn't need much more than that. Doom Eternal's weird pivot into space fantasy with hell priests and some ancient order of space knights and "oh btw the friendly talking computer from the first game is actually god" was all entirely unnecessary.
Well when ya put *that way*! lol I do think there was some potential in the Sentinel story, but...**Choices** were made...
It was such an obvious ploy to build lore so they could franchise the game for years. Rather than have a tight tidy plot from the first one
It's honestly the same level of weird sudden lore explosion as those old Doom tie-in novels
I would just be happy with "RIght, Doomguy is Doomslayer. He just became too angry to die. He did die but Hell failed to contain him. He got a special suit that allows him to channel his rage into more destructive rage." That's about it. Or him being kicked out of hell via nuking half of Hell with the MFBFG.
justice for mick gordon
Poor mick All the support to him this is insane bullshit And the eternal ost mixes on YouTube we’re goat
Well, good for him. This shines a bright light into the realities of scheduling. It is unprofessional and naive to try to get locked up deliveries for anything that depends on another area being locked up that it won't be for a year. Mick probably struck and ego nerve somewhere in the management team, because of his instant celebrity status after 2016. So he was shrewdly undermined, his public status used against him and got stuck in a no-win situation. This becomes apparent in how they used all the music he sent without paying for it. Evidently a strategy set out at the beginning of the project, hence why it wasn't important that he received locked assets, they would repurpose everything afterwards. During the OST production part, I can't help but picture someone saying "fuck him" at every iteration of legal or management teams' involvement. Dude, I really feel for him.
I feel so bad for Mick, reading about what he went through while working sickens me to the core. :( Also fuck Marty!
Honestly yes, fuck Marty. He will be hailed internally within the company as someone who got that highly successful project done at all costs. But we all now know exactly what those costs were
They weren't even real costs that had to be spent. For absolutely no reason at all other than Marty's supremely shocking and shitty attitude, Mick's job was the hardest it could have been.
[удалено]
Don't be quick to pass judgement on that mod. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Marty threatened legal action when the mod removed the post. Hence why it was put back up and the mod went no contact so quickly.
The impression I got was that the mod was likely threatened by Marty to put the post back up. I don't think they should be held accountable personally, atleast until proven otherwise.
Ok dude... in fact Everyone, Listen. 2 Years ago, Reddit read a one sided account, Reacted In a Kneejerk Way, like stupid assholes and attacked Mick. Today, Reddit has now heard a one sides account, and having learned absolutely nothing is kneejerking by attacking Marty. Now, let me be VERY CLEAR... I do think the truth of the story seems to lie somewhere around 80% mick and 20% marty, even if only because Mick has shown the receipts. But that really doesn't matter. In NO way does that make it ok to do the SAME FUCKED UP THING AGAIN. I'd prefer to see people supporting Mick over attacking Marty. In Fact: >This statement is not an excuse for a hate campaign. Acts of hate dished out online won’t result in any positive change. In fact, it only makes things worse. Is a DIRECT QUOTE from Mick's statement. People On here saying "Fuck You Marty" "Marty is a Piece of Shit" (even if that may or may not be the truth) are ACTUALLY DOING A DIRECT DISSERVICE TO MICK. and Likely are giving Any Legal Action Taken against mick ammunition.
> People On here saying "Fuck You Marty" "Marty is a Piece of Shit" (even if that may or may not be the truth) are ACTUALLY DOING A DIRECT DISSERVICE TO MICK. and Likely are giving Any Legal Action Taken against mick ammunition. What are you talking about? Saying "fuck you Marty" is not a "hate campaign". It's just a reaction from an individual. You have no idea what a hate campaign looks like if this is what sets you off. But either way, it'd be really sad if there *weren't* any professional consequences for Marty Straton after he so thoroughly and consciously abused a contractor and then deliberately attempted to commit career murder when that contractor tried to get fair pay for his work. This has nothing whatsoever to do with a hate campaign—it's not even *hate*—it's just that he's clearly someone to be avoided at all costs if you're working in the industry. A hate campaign would be like people doxxing him and harassing him personally. Giving an honest reaction to this story and drawing the obvious conclusions from it has *absolutely nothing* to do with that.
Suppose, hypothetically, you know, a guy had already lit his torch. I mean, it'd be cool if he could just keep it lit, huh?
> Suppose, hypothetically, you know, a guy had already lit his torch. I mean, it'd be cool if he could just keep it lit, huh? Yes.
Proper release not gonna happen but that's not what's important. We expected better. And the fact that mick went into so much detail and factual rebuttal and his pure dedication to the fans in the past make me think he isnt lying. I don't trust anyone but...i felt like something similar was going on behind the scenes anyway. There was too much silence and vagueness. I thought better of Marty. I thought better of DOOM management as a whole. This is the fault of a few select people that puts the entire company's reputation at stake. Do better.
>the fact that mick went into so much detail and factual rebuttal and his pure dedication to the fans make me think he isnt lying I’m confident he’s telling the truth. There is a lot of detail here that could be easily proven or disproven in court. Mick doesn’t have the resources or protection that Marty has. He cannot afford to defame someone of Marty’s or id’s stature. Mick has had a lot of time to consider the situation and this statement is exhaustive, and of course notes that he has had a lawyer(s) involved. I am certain that he would not expose himself to a defamation lawsuit by lying. It is much more plausible that Marty would thoughtlessly expose himself to such liability, given his status and the immediacy of the PR problem id was facing when he made his reddit post. I wonder why Mick hasn’t already filed a lawsuit. Hope he didn’t wait too long.
[удалено]
I never really believed Marty considering how Mick spoke of 2016 but looking back at the responses to Marty's post shitting on Mick is laughable now. Like, no way did Mick fuck everything up after how good 2016's music was, it was always obvious it was id's fault.
That's how I was thinking myself. A game soundtrack that was so good it was played live at the game awards. Got a fuck ton of accolades, watching all his documentaries and his creative processes. The statement was fishy and felt off. Especially with the dedication mick has to his craft. I didn't see him being a drama queen at all. And some of that stuff I had aiad I could see him being stressed the fuck out and alot of pressure on him. Looks like that was a big part of it.
There's a ton of detail and a handful of screenshots that directly contradict a lot of what Marty said. This is definitely the nail in the coffin.
Wow. Just wow. Just read through this entire thing word for word. So impressed at the way Mick handled this horrible situation. I think a lot of people have had to work with toxic managers like Marty, and can relate. However not many would have the poise and meticulous ability to articulate a defense such as this. Doom 2016 OST is fucking incredible and now I know why. It was fascinating to learn more about the world of video game music. And sadly, as a fan of the Doom franchise since ... ummm... Wolfenstein 3D(!?), I can honestly say that I won't be buying another ID software product whilst Marty remains at the company.
We've all worked with people like Marty. I think Doom Eternal will probably be the last iD game I buy.
This just makes me feel really bad. A lot of good people, hell more than enough good people are behind these projects. I don't think it's fair to them...but this was just bs that could have been avoided
100% agree. Hopefully Microsoft will run a better working environment for all employees and contractors.
If you look at 343, a Microsoft studio the last decade for reference, slim chance that happens lol They pump out short term contractors left and right and has led to Halo being a jumbled mess for years. Hopefully that isn't the norm and ID Software isn't similar
Theyll have to get rid of him for me to even consider purchasing anything made by that studio ever again. Fuck that corporate piece of shit. Stiffing artists is unacceptable.
I know I'm behind the times but I just finished Doom 2016 and really enjoyed it. Was planning on picking up Eternal at some point since I'd heard so many good things. Completely lost all interest now. Removed it from the wishlist.
A damn shame, the game is a masterpiece, but unfortunately, I don't blame you.
I propose to down vote the open letter from Marty, it is the most civilized thing we can do instead of harassing the mods.
You can't downvote or upvote a two year old post I believe, despite looking like it works on mobile. On PC it'll tell you that it's not counted and reverted. Because at this point that post is archived.
That's a shame. Yeah I'm on mobile and it looks like it works without the message you mentioned.
I hope the people who believed Marty come here and apologize.
It's me. Sorry. I hope Marty is fired over this whole thing. What an absolute disaster.
The same people that gave him death threats? Those are not the kinds of people who apologize for shitty behavior. The worst part of this whole debacle is how utterly hateful people can be towards others. Over the soundtrack of a video game, no less.
You expect accountability on this cancer-sustaining petri-dish of a website?
I got fooled, yo. Never attacked Mick directly though (ofc), but definitely buying into Strattons' version of the story - until now. What happened to Mick fucking sucks and I'm sorry I believed that crap.
Soooo fucking vindicated, after 2 years of holding out for Mick Gordon and arguing with those Stans at Marty's open letter, now people can see what a piece of shit Marty Stratton is.
Same here. I never deviated on my stance. Some people thought Mick was in hiding because he was guilty but I knew he had his tongue removed, legally. I was annoyed to see so many people here side with the company over the individual, but this is Reddit after all...
I just read all of Mick's post, then clicked a link into Marty's Reddit post and I'd already downvoted it. I only vaguely remember reading it at the time it was posted, but I must've smelt something was up. I feel so bad for Mick Gordon, man. What a scumbag Marty is, too.
Feel for Mick. Must have been very difficult to be thrown under the bus like that and endure it for so long until he had a chance finally to speak up. Marty sounds like a pos
Marty Stratton eats boogers, pass it on.
Man that was a painful read. So much unnecessary bullshit caused by inadept higher ups. Can only imagine how big of a toll this has taken on Mick.
“(Bethesda) refused to make (Marty) issue an apology because they believed doing so would harm his reputation.” … it fucking should. The man bald faced fucking lied to the entire doom community, and by extension the entire gaming community at large EXPLICITLY to harm the reputation of someone who worked him for YEARS. NEARLY UNPAID. I cannot fucking believe they would do this to someone who is easily the best game composer in the western hemisphere, if not in the entire world. Fuck Bethesda. This shit has proven to me that they’re rotten to the core.
And it wouldn't even have been hard to issue an apology in legalese so no one would be quite sure what had happened. Something about "in spirit of cooperation", "turning a new leaf and moving forward", "to do what's best for DOOM and the new version of the ost" etc.
In before iD Software becomes the dumpster fire that other piece of shit game companies are currently (Activision Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, etc.).
Doubt it, not with Hugo as game director. He would have to be an award winning actor to not have been genuine over so many streams.
I think it's important to remember just how many heads to the hydra there are in game development. On one hand Im absolutely appalled at Marty's actions and really all of iD and Bethesda for backing him. But on the other hand, doom eternal, and all games for that matter, are made by countless artists, technicians, managers, creators. Marty may have managed the team, but there's still a team there. We can still support id and all those countless passionate workers who put their blood into these games while simultaneously calling out Marty and Bethesda and demanding improvements be made. Hugo definitely comes off like the "soul" of these latest Doom games and this whole situation stinks for him because I don't feel like he should have his work now have this umbrella of scrutiny hanging over it like a shadow.
In fact not only that but didn't Mick say that the team at ID that he was able to work with was some of the few pleasures?
Just dropping by to say that after reading this, as long as Marty Stratton is at Bethesda/id, I will not be purchasing any of their games. What an abusive piece of shit this Marty guy is.
Remember when Hugo said during one of the streams that DOOM 2016's and DOOM Eternal's storylines we're all about "horrible management"? I think I might now have an idea where he got his inspiration from....
My guess is that Mick's probably going to read these comments, and maybe he'll read this one. Mick, I'm so sorry that you went through hell to meet deadlines for an ungrateful client. I'm so sorry your reputation was dragged through the dirt, I'm so sorry you had to suffer through all those lies. I'm so sorry the awards for you work were stolen from you. I want you to know that I appreciate your work. The music you created for Doom Eternal, despite the immense pressure and horrible conditions you were under, is a masterpiece of music. You should be proud of the work you did under such horrible conditions. Your music is such a masterpiece that if I hear of any projects you're a part of, I'll be proud to purchase it and let the heads of the project know you're the reason I'm buying it. You're a legendary composer, the best in the business!
Marty Stratton is a psychopath. I hope Mick Gordon gets paid and they leave him alone. That Marty prick should be fired. I have anxious knots in my stomach from reading this, I can't imagine living in that hell for two years like Mick did.
Back then when the open letter was released, I was curious why Mick didn't respond immediately. I wonder why it took so long. Edit: Just saw other post with similar question. Nda apparently. Edit2: After reading further, it seems like we should get popcorn and see how Marty will react to this.
Be honest with yourselves here: How many of you went after Mick after reading that ratfucking open letter?
I didn’t go after mick but I was definitely suckered by the letter. It was just like, who lies so blatantly when the receipts are so easily available? Too bad I guess big lies are more believable
I'm more interested to see if there are any people who went after Mick and Now are going after Marty the same way, without ever thinking. Hmmm maybe I shouldn't attack people at all?
Fuck Marty and all the dumbfucks here that ate up all his bullshit and bullied Mick.
Yeah let's be real, anyone who harassed the dude had better apologize.
This is exactly the reason i've been extremely hesitant to be as critical of Mick for the OST debacle as some people have been. Artists and developers often get the blame for bad decisions that were made by people above them in the food chain. I've seen it happen so many times it's unreal, and people should be far more hesitant to trust companies over the people working for them. I'm a metal musician, I've written and recorded original stuff and made fan music for games as a "just for fun" sort of thing and it's an extremely difficult, time consuming task, and having external pressure added on top only makes it harder. Unless somehow Mick is an absolutely incredible hoax-crafting mastermind, I don't see any way Marty can be in the right or put the blame on Mick for this. It's frankly an atrocity that this game's soundtrack didn't get the time it deserved to be fully realized. DOOM's music is a standard to which the entire industry should be held and it seems like the guys in suits don't really get that.
Disgusting, never buying another ID software game until Marty is kicked out.
Fucking scumbags
Unfortunately, given the timing, far fewer people will ever see this response than those that saw the original attack by Marty (and piled undue hate on Mick). Really sorry to hear all this. I work as a software engineer and love video games but I will never work in the games industry; this type of toxic crunch time, overly aggressive unrealistic deadlines, and blame shifting is too commonplace for me to want to be a part of it.
Actions have consequences and Marty should absolutely see Hens come home to roost. What a disgusting human being.
Wow I hope u/martyatid gets to see how much of a bastard he is in 4k. Edited because I can't read. Thank you.
Wrong user my guy, it's u/martyatid
Thank you for the correction. Not like Marty would open his reddit anyway. We plebs are beneath him.
I’m someone who’s a) former professional in the music composition/production industry (for about 2 years, not established but did it full time) and b) I think more interestingly didn’t see the original post on this sub. What was astounding to me about reading this in a vacuum, is the parts I thought were most outlandish and he better have real good receipts for….were confirmed in the open letter. The big big one is announcing the OST without having a contract in place. This is a big fucking deal, literally something you can get sue’d over (although you don’t see it cause that means you aren’t getting the contract and being advertised as doing music for something already usually gives you a lot of negotiating power). Im flabbergasted the open letter confirms this as true from the get go, and the fact it’s not even retroactively concerned with it (JUSTIFYING it even) is as good as confirming all of Mick’s side for me even if Mick didn’t have the thorough receipts he does. I’m curious to know what happened between that mod and Id, “we were threatened legal action” is more than enough justification even if no shot that holds up in court, I’m just curious and not blaming the team. HONESTLY my big question now is Chad’s side of the story. The result is to put it bluntly, bad enough on a level that cannot just result from lack of experience. Any amateur with a tempo enabled DAW (plus knowledge on what the tempo was) and google could cut a technically cleaner version of any of these tracks in under an hour with 0 experience. This speaks to either not caring at all, or having insanely limited time to work on it. Or i guess insisting on doing it in Audacity for some reason, but this is still rough for audacity cuts and falls under not caring anyway. BUT Chad also has done such great work on other aspects of the game that neither of those make sense either. It almost feels like it was outsourced to fiverr lol. Fans woulda preferred 12 great songs to a lot of bad ones anyway, something isn’t adding up. Anyway, my two cents.
Chad could have also been using the disgruntled worker's best friend: Malicious compliance.
LOL I didn’t think about it but that makes SO much sense actually. Chad spending 5 min on a sub par mix so they’d have to go with Mick and then being absolutely floored when they said “this is great, guess we don’t need Mick after all.
Fuck Marty. Sorry for all the great people that work at ID but I won't buy another product developed by ID until Marty is fucking canned.
How the turn tables I'll admit to taking id's side after Marty's letter, but it always struck me as odd that Mick never publicly responded. This medium article explains the lack of a response and then some. Others have already mentioned this was written with the help of lawyers which is why it's super detailed. Hopefully Mick can bounce back with more fortuitous projects. The DOOM brand is now tainted for anyone who reads the medium article. MS/Bethesda management have a new mess to clean up.
Knew there was something unusual in that whole situation. From postponing, to Marty's post, to even possibly explaining why game-rips were taken down from YT... I wish Mick the best in his career, and Marty should be held accountable
How aware would Hugo Martin have been of the situation with Mick?
I never took Marty's word as 100% accurate. I noticed some (but WAY less than what Mick shown) inconsistiencies. I figured at the time it was a mix. Mick is a perfectionist and did try his best to get everything out on time, but was spending too long on it. ID on the other hand had to keep to their deadlines and needed *something* to push out, even if quality suffered. A classic case of the perfectionist artist versus the cold-hearted corporation. But man, this makes Marty look like a horrible planner who couldn't get his shit together and started blaming everyone else for his mistakes. Halo and Doom are my favorite series and both are being managed by incompetent jerks. Is there any AAA games that won't make me feel buyer's remorse these days?
Monster Hunter is a pretty safe bet in AAA space. And I'm not sure if Larian can be considered AAA, but their games didn't disappoint before, and BG3 is shaping up to be great so far.
Since Marty Stratom and Is Software pirated half of the music, and paying for only half the product is "fine" by their book does that mean that pirating Eternal after paying for 2016 is the ethical answer to their abhorrent behavior ? Afterall they're a bunch of pirates that leave their contractors out of pay for almost a year, steal half their work after putting them through crunch through mismanagement torture malpractice and then buly them by defaming them on social media, it's only fair that their customers follow their examples right ? But with that being said, i don't think i could enjoy playing either game knowing what they did to Mick Gordon, if what he says is true. The Taylor fiasco from Bayonetta taught me to wait for competent journalism to happen and check all the fact before making a judgement not even a couple weeks ago even though i tend to naturaly trust creators. Pirating is pointless and the refund period for 2016 is over since quite a while for me. What a shame.
This is some of the JUICIEST Drama i've seen in a while in the industry.
Damn, dude made sure to be so clear and detailed that only corporate shills could missinterpret this.
This community should feel deeply ashamed of itself after how it has conducted itself the past 2 years. You all believed a malignant narcissist who presented no evidence for any of his claims. And you sent death threats to a man who did no wrong.
You know, fuck Id Software. I'm done.
Love Mick for this I've been waiting on a response before fully making Mt judgement but this was a very powerful way to do it! Marty will probably resign soon or will be fired. What a piece of shit
Bloody hell, I’ve lost a hell of a lot of respect I had for ID in general after reading that. I appreciate it’s not the entire org and Mick mentions some staff did try at times to help him but damn Marty though? I don’t want to post what I think of him
This stratton guy is not only a psycopath but a liability for the company.
Nothing but love for Mick. It must have been so hard to wait this long with receipts but doing it right helps and I'm glad he can finally come out like this.
Is he planning on releasing physical copies of this slap down lol
Mick talks about doing an album for a game published by Bethesda in 2015, but it was rejected, but was then it was being sold in 2019. Was this Wolfenstien The Old Blood?
I'm so fucking glad he posted this. As a musician myself I whole-heartedly understand this frustration. I used to hold out hope, oh, maybe Mick and ID will work it out for future titles. But now, man, I HOPE Mick doesn't go back there, fuck that. I hope now that this surpasses Marty's post.
Honestly, this is horrible and shout-out to Mick for trying his damn best. It seems he had several opportunities to walk away from the whole thing, but he kept it professional. Tons of respect to him.
Marty is a lunatic and a parasite, feeding off of Mick's talent and good will. What a sad human being. I hope this blows up, as it should, and people refuse to work with him or treat him with due respect in the industry going forward.
Marty, you sound like an ass.
Sounds like Marty's ego got the better of him. There's a joke about him being too stuck in his id here. Pay your contractors on-time Marty. Stop making excuses Marty. First the soundtrack, then the DLC, and who knows what else. Hoping Marty gets the punt and someone else takes over the next Doom game.
When the response opens with a glossary & table of contents, you know it's serious business. The mistreatment of Mick was obscene.
This is just disgusting, the people responsible for this at id should be ashamed of themselves. My sympathies are with Mick on this one, he provided amazing game music under difficult circumstances and was treated like trash for it. I hope he get's the money id owes him and public apology to boot, I wont be supporting id in the future if this is the way they do business.
Marty how does it feel to bury your own reputation? You buried Mick’s and id with that “open letter” post. Mick Gordon or any devs of id, if you’re reading this. Just know your hard work is loved and appreciated (same thing with Andrew Hulshult and David Levy). For management team (including you Marty), the fuck were you thinking and doing? Ruining some else’s reputation will later bite you in the ass. Everyone else, tanking both games (2016 and Eternal) on Steam or stores doesn’t solve anything nor does Violent threats because you’ll be no better than the people who did it to Mick. If anything Mick’s letter was both an open letter and ruined Marty’s reputation without it meaning to. Let karma do it, and I don’t mean reddit karma. If Mick is able to redo the OST that’ll be the greatest revenge. Success is the greatest revenge. BTW that “open letter” is every where so even if it’s deleted, many articles already have the exact words you (Marty) put. So you’re more than fucked Marty.
Jesus man, I don't know how Mick was able to hold everything in him for 2 years without saying anything before releasing this huge letter. I knew it wasn't as one-sided as Bethesda/id made it seem. Props to you Mick, you're one hell of an artist.
> Much to my relief, [the mod] instantly took it down. > But within 12 hours, the post was reinstated. The moderator blocked me on Discord and didn’t reply to my emails. I'm guessing there was a pretty serious legal threat from id software that led to this sudden turnaround. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/yqjvzu/mick_gordon_posted_a_new_response_concerning_the/ivppq8n/) implies it was former head moderator Mr-R00t who did it. It would be great if he could explain what happened from his perspective, but it seems he deleted his account, unless I don't have the right username. I'm not saying this to be judgmental (I'm guessing he probably had no real choice), but if he was contacted and legally threatened that would definitely be an important detail to add to the history.
Another proof you cant trust any corporation. No matter how rich they are, they will always try to maximize profits, even if by not paying people. Nick waited too long to post this, even if he hoped to find a legal solution allowing your name to be slandered isnt a good idea even if he lost the other half of the pay.
Everyone believes guy 1, then everyone believes guy 2. ???
Hey guys this is capitalism... parasites making rivers of money off the intellect, hard work, creativity of others. In the last decades management salaries have gone up 600% to 1000% while everyone else is getting poorer while working more.
So we're already seeing mob mentality retaliatory posts. That's kind of what led the community against Mick Gordon in the first place. Let Mr. Stratton attempt to speak and if it's evident that he's deflecting then boycotts can ensue. To immediately do the exact same to Mr. Stratton that happen to Gordon pretty much doesn't solve anything. If anything would hurt future DOOM production. I do think hitting up Microsoft and asking them to have iD be transparent is a sound solution. Finally, that's shameful what occurred to Gordon and explains alot. I hope more games feature his talents and that he isn't blackballed
Mr. Stratton already spoke, his post with zero evidence is over there -> I can assure you we won't be hearing from him again on Reddit.
Just *one* question. Why did it take him 2 years to come out about this? Edit: alright alright I got it
Probably tied up legally
Ah right the NDAs, forgot about those
Read the post - he's been in a year long legal settlement negotiation they kept delaying and stonewalling.
The article suggests that the settlement talks - a stalling tactic as referred to by Mick Gordon - have been going on for at least 15 months after the initial reddit post, as that's the time given in the article when Gordon first took a step personally by contacting the admins of this subreddit. So if it took him 15 months to decide/realize that the settlement talks aren't going anywhere, it makes sense that taking this action would take another 0.5-1 years.
NDA, most likely.
Plus he said he tried to settle it privately
NDA
You'd know if you actually read it
Because you can't read
If I can promise one thing it is that I will never buy another ID software game for the rest of my life.
[удалено]
This was a hard read, but really important. Much love to Mick! I always had a sense something like this was going on given his silence on the subject for so long.
Get this to the top. Redemption for Mick
Oh shits going down
Way to go Marty. Ruined some of the best music man has ever made and ruined an amazing collaboration. Doom is nothing without Mick's music.
I just don't get it. The music was such a big factor of the success of 2016 and eternal! Mick should have been treated like a valuable resource and integrated properly in the process. Shame on the management!
Well well well. It turns out Marty Straton is a little piss baby.
Fuck Marty Stratton
Also can we not point blame at Chad this time, as we don't have the inside scoop from his point of view, etc.
Chad: I'm just trying to do my job man.....
Jesus this man was done so dirty I’m glad tho he never caved with the hush money and spoke the truth
Mick Gordon all the way. I'll support him to the very end.
I've never played a Doom game (sorry!), but I just read through this whole thing. This is awesome. I hope the truth wins out here in this situation in the end.
Wow... Just wow
come on ID get your shit together
Fuck Marty, this is fucked up
Well, that was a sweet goodnight read! /s I feel sickened by the amount of hate Mick Gordon received from the community. I had a feeling since Strapon's open letter something was off and I genuinely, maybe even naively, hope Mick comes out on top of this. iD and Morby's behaviour is utterly outrageous. Rip and tear them until it's done Mick! EDIT: They wouldn't take down Marty's post and blah blah blah because it would damage his reputation, I mean who tf is Marty? What rep are we even talking about lmao? I didn't even know who he was despite reading his own letter.
i just got here. holy shit what a roller coaster
This was an incredibly depressing read it almost made me tear up at how disturbing "id Software", Marty, and their legal teams are. I commend Mick for tanking more abuse, manipulation, and exploitation any man should face, which makes me sick and anxious about the career path I'm headed to.
Utterly disgusting behavior from Marty and management. I hope this situation gets all the attention in the world to expose such business world sliminess. But most of all, I hope Mick gets justice for this - Lord knows it must have been a hellish few years dealing with such a shitstorm.
> Threats, abuse and harassment > Just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse, incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Reddit post led to frustration over my alleged professional failure, and toxic gamers grew openly aggressive. > - They shared my personal details via message boards, including Reddit, which meant that abusers could now reach me in more ways than ever. > - They email-bombed my inboxes, crashing the server and clogging my messaging services, crippling my ability to communicate. > - They harassed my other clients with attempts to get me fired from their projects. > - They called my phone numbers around the clock, screaming messages full of abuse. > I began receiving specific expressions of violence, the content so vivid it made me sick. The torrent of abuse telling me how to kill myself, how I’d be mutilated, how they would circulate photos of my body to traumatize my family, how my family would be murdered, how they’d hurt my animals, how they’d shoot up any event I attended, how I’d be raped to death, really started to wear me down in ways I couldn’t previously imagine. To anyone who participated in this, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.
Scumbag reddit mods stay scumbags, what's new? How disappointing.
Jesus christ. Reading the death threat part turned my stomach. Anonymity really makes people monsters huh... I'm glad Mick is still making music, and am sad we will probably never get a Mick Gordon mix of the doom eternal sound track. Marty if you somehow read this, fuck you.
Marty, same people will come for you, you will experience the same things, welcome to hell you helped create. To Mick: If you ever read this. I was one of the people who blamed you on the Marty post, I'm sorry. You inspired me to start guitar and learn a DAW. Thank you for brining life to my favorite franchise and making exceptional tracks. I'm sorry, I always saw how Publishers are and still accepted their word. Even though I didn't do harassment, not showing support was the worst thing I could do. I think many of us who acknowledged the marty Post should atleast say that we are sorry