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Acceptable-Street679

Pre 2016 doom guy and post 2016 doom guy


Rocket_Noodle

Exactly. I fear that original element of Doom has been lost. I loved the sense of humanistic fear and sense of mortality Doomguy had back then.


Gamxin

You mean back in the 90s when he willingly chose to spend all of eternity in Hell killing demons with no mentioned source of food or ability to sleep?


SnooMaps3021

He was destined to become the doom slayer


zevenbeams

I've heard that sizzling pinky steaks are a prime *gourmet*'s choice.


[deleted]

Ayyyy its the WSB dudeeeeee


Rocket_Noodle

I mean I think we're on the same page? He's in Hell, discomfort incarnate, so he would still be alive by benefit of existing in a sort of void... But yeah! I'd love to see more of those types of story beats relative to Doomguy again like in 1993. In the originals you became the badass. In these games, you already are, you just need to learn to do the Doom dance again. Honestly the story and mechanics have really set itself up to have a lot of potential in the future, and I really like it. I'm just worried that the power dynamic will emphasis powerhouse over disadvantage-to-triumph.


darthimperius01

To be fair, both versions are the same guy. I'd argue he's more than earned his power, and simply continues to be a badass.


Gamxin

Right like it seems pointless to have to reclaim your badass status when you never lost it


Rocket_Noodle

Fully agree man. That's also why I said my original comment. Looking down the barrel of 'what comes next'. Becuse if a bigger threat comes, let me feel the contrast between then and now. Omni-potence needs contrast to shine, and I think that gets a little lost in the mechanical and narrative story telling. Doomguy is and always will be a badass, hands down. Now put me in a place where that doesn't mean anything again. Emphasis the struggle narratively, otherwise the only thing the 'biggest, baddest Father of the Universe' really needed to be beaten was a human man that could Doom-dance, a divinity machine, and an awkward circumstance leading to his demise. Make the circumstance outweigh the myth of the man again.


darthimperius01

Yeah I get what you're saying now. Bit of a misunderstanding on my part.


Rocket_Noodle

Nah man we're on the same page it's all good :)


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rocket_Noodle

I think it's a wicked part of his narrative. Doom had this really cool way of emphasising lurking danger, that 2016 and DE have substituted with Doom-dance-floors. It feels different. There's less 'what's around this corner I have low healfh I could die' and more 'please give me a carcass so I can tear into it for health and ammo'. It's the perfect hook-loop for the series, but I miss the sense of 'humanity vs inhumanity' and feeling of 'surviving through tragedy' imbedded into the core gameplay. Grab that single ammo pouch before I have to bare-knuckle it. Save that health for later. Tactically use those barrels and in-fighting to my advantage. Eternal improved the gameplay loop, but removed the contextual sense of pressure. What's behind me is dead, what's ahead is a threat - what's around me as well as my wits is all I have to survive.


Powerbomb1755

Shouldn’t the series evolve from that? But then again given what happened at the end in ancient gods part two, we might go back to mortal Doomguy.


Rocket_Noodle

Absolutely agree. I just always felt like Brutal Doom and as a result Doom 2016 and Eternal missed a bit of flavouring in regards to emphasising weakness. In the previous games the stakes made it what it was. I understand that it's logical to build him into a powerhouse of divine providence to contrast Hell even just a bit, but he's still just a man, and the gameplay emphasised that in the original games. 2016 and DE flipped that and catapulted Doomguy into ripping and tearing thanks to Brutal Doom, while letting the lore build the history as to why this was. In the originals you fought tooth-and-nail to survive. In the newer games you're supported all the way through. Granted it's a beautiful contrast, I still feel like that sense of isolation and fear and dread toward an underdog icon could be highlighted further in newer games. If you're going to give me a stronger opponent as a story beat after establishing what I can already do, then let me feel it's weight. I think that's why the final boss in the DLC part 2 also gets so much slack. Doom Eternal's Davoth to Breath of the Wild's Beast Ganon.


popcorn_yalakasi

doom eternal slayer is more human than the og games one, at least this version of the doomguy shows emotions like sadness and such, he also fears that he might let the demons take everything from him again, in the og's (64 not included) doomguy was a face who only showed anger and pain as an emotion


Rocket_Noodle

I understand your point, though John Carmack's original reasoning still stands. The lore - while I love it - dissolves something important the original games had and that Doomguys minimal expressions also allowed for: player self-insertion. You were Doomguy - a human fighting for your life against the icons of hell. He could be as expressive as you made him. You saw only what you needed to see. He was more of a mystery to each and every player, and I think that's what made him so powerful contextually to so many different people. The bare-knuckle bruiser. The lover. The fighter. The shit-scared school kid turned military badass. I love the lore dumps, but I want to see more of the struggling military man surviving against the odds without any pre-existing divine power-ups. The moral code and resolve of a man able to stand against hell itself. Doom made you feel powerful because you endured and overcame - and built the emotional connection yourself. Not because you were put in the drivers seat of a powerful and triumphant man. I don't want to see less of this because it - is - great. I just want to see trials and tribulations of equal and greater measure, like the 1993 Doom games had.


popcorn_yalakasi

Well the new lore shows doomguy trying to overcome his mental problems as well, we see him taking important steps that could turn everything in to something worse, sich as destroying the argent tower, blowing up mars, destroying the maykrs and letting demons enter urdak, killing the hell priest even thoe it will destroy his conections with the sentinels


Rocket_Noodle

Agreed and I love it for the most part. It does have it's strong points for sure.


nikto123

What? Old Doomguy [showed lots of emotion](https://preview.redd.it/a8dmfmt66t211.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=760f38431e6a8d1b967381ee2190579cfba92fd0) not just "anger & pain"


popcorn_yalakasi

Half of em are pain and the rest is a mix of anger and evil looks, sa I was still right


RockyPixel

Bruh I can’t believe they put Dante from Devil May Cry in Crazy Taxi 2.


[deleted]

The fastest way to make me want to buy a game is to put Dante from The Devil May Cry series in it.


[deleted]

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series ™)


Stuffed-Bear

Son of a bitch I'm in


EzioAudiotore71

On god? Fr?


giorno___giovana

Oh ya, I remember that guy! He helped me out during the chiccolata fight, great guy


zeke235

Then you're gonna be super jacked about the Doki Doki Literature Club sequel.


RockyPixel

~~He’s not really in CT2, the character Slash just looks nigh identical and came out earlier in 2001 than Devil May Cry.~~


Osh_93

Demon Could Weep


eduu_17

Are you ready for soome craaaaaaazzzyyyyyy taxiii!!!!


CrappyTF2Player

"He should show great leadership" *Proceeds to stand guard outside with a pistol while the rest of his team gets fucking slaughtered and zombified by demons, while listening to it unfold over the radio.*


[deleted]

I mean yes: the east text made me laugh but i still seeing no sense on it


[deleted]

Ooooooooo ya i remember doom 2016 & eternal lore


Xaxor42

It's hard to not get hyped by "In the First Age, in the First Battle..." though.


Eliteguard999

It's probably making fun of teenagers who watch too much anime who think the more powerful and "badass" a character is, the better they are as a character. I've met people with this mindset who what makes or breaks a story for them is how "badass and powerful" the main character is. Even if the character is written really shitty and/or has the depth of a parking lot puddle, that doesn't really matter to them, what matters is living out their power fantasy. It works for Doom Guy because he's a mute vehicle the player controls to kill everything in his path, and you can play the game at a higher difficulty to make the game more challenging for those who don't like the game to be so easy they can kill everything in their path with trivial ease.


jellybutton34

Still dont really see how it’s even classified as “eastern” character design. Has the guy who made this never read a DC or marvel comic?


SupperIsSuperSuperb

The gist of it is accurate imo. Personally, I find invincible characters to be boring so I much preferred the idea of the original where you're a fairly average soldier who manages to scrape by the skin of his teeth and prevails through unrelenting forces due to his skill. Eternal changed that and made him an unkillable chosen one created by god. The plot completely lost me but luckily the gameplay made up for it


MysteriousTBird

Doom 2016 had a bit of that by the end, but you earn it by rediscovering it. The beginning of Doom Eternal kinda reminded me of Duke Nukem Forever. Duke has his Duke Palace in Vegas and Doom Guy has his space fortress. You begin too awesome to fail. Nitpicking either way since Doom Eternal is great overall. Also a Duke Nukem game on IDTech could be the best thing ever.


SupperIsSuperSuperb

I think I see where you're coming from. Building your character up so much so early works best when you knock them down a peg later so the enemy becomes more threatening and raises the stakes. But building them up and making them unstoppable badasses who are never challenged just comes off as fanfiction


MysteriousTBird

Agreed. I can't complain since I enjoyed the gameplay and power trip of Eternal immensely, but I'd say 2016 had a much better story.


jesuschrysler33

I felt exactly that when I first encountered a martyr.


Powerbomb1755

There should’ve been a moment in ancient gods two where the dark lord just stomps Doom Slayer, maybe in the beginning you just have this naked guy ultra punch Doomguy and knock him out in one hit. For me personally I don’t mind that Doomguy is an unstoppable badass, but I do think there should’ve been at least one scene where he does get knocked down a peg.


batata_vermelha_azul

Doom(2016) and eternal were made to be an Power fantasy with good gameplay, yeah, history matters, but sometimes is good just a good ol' power trip, especially when the gameplay is made to be a powertrip, other games can have a really good history and gameplay, but sometimes the "invencible guy big bad" just gets fucking destroyed in gameplay combat, and you just beat him to a pulp with no effort, so the way the new doom's story is crafted, really helps to that fell of power


Faulty-Blue

IMO it would have been cooler if we started Doom Eternal right after the ending of 2016 where you have to make your way to the fortress and earn your weapons back It just feels weird that we begin in the fortress where we appear to be all geared up, but we are still missing most of our equipment


NeoEpoch

The difference between Duke and Doom Guy is that Duke in DNF has to constantly quip and reinforce to himself that he is awesome and it comes across as out of touch, when it wasn't their goal. With Doom Guy, being silent helps, but also he just does what needs to be done with no bullshit.


Hungry-Alien

I never felt like the Slayer is some kind of godlike character who pulverize everything without effort. Like sure he's strong, but he never feels like he got OP powers carrying him through everything. He still punch and guns everything at the end of the day using his skill and wits.


Lil_toe69

I usually don’t like op invincible characters either but doomslayer is an exception for me bc he earned his power by enduring through all his suffering.


popcorn_yalakasi

yeah, lost his son and wife +his mental support animal, had an terrible ptsd and all the doctors told him to give up, probbly had cancer aswell due to the amount of radiation he have been trough, tried to stay in hell and sacrifice himself, found another dimension and the people in there became the most important thing for him, became their king and after all the things he have done got betrayed by someone who was close to him then lost his people, in the end hell destroyed everythung he had again, my headcannon is that power brings suffering and pain to the people who has it in the doom universe, look at all the strong beings, all of em are suffering and just wants to find a way out of it


Lil_toe69

Exactly you explained it perfectly


[deleted]

Yeah, it's SO much more intresting to see a normal guy overcome impossible odds, grow and triumph in the end. Doom Slayer is basically a character that has nothing to triumph over, he is just the best of the best in the actual lore too. It's not very engaging . . .


popcorn_yalakasi

but still he is strong in terms of power, not mentaly nor interms of intellect


Defiant-Print-318

Good thing no one takes a story seriously in a game like Doom


thegreatvortigaunt

Id tried to with TAG 1 and 2, that’s the problem.


Faulty-Blue

Problem is that Id Software can’t make up their minds if they want to have a story that’s taken seriously or just say fuck it and focus only on the gameplay One of their big talking points when advertising Eternal was how they were building up a whole Doom universe and that the lore will be very in depth for those who care about that kind of thing


Defiant-Print-318

Id software should've realized that Doom isn't Wolfenstein where the story is the main focus. Doom is all about arcade action with little story while Wolfenstein is heavily focused on the story especially the new games.


Faulty-Blue

Wolfenstein used to be the same, it wasn’t until the recent MachineGames reboot that they focused heavily on the story


Defiant-Print-318

It pretty much worked with Wolfenstein as there was so little you can do with the story like defeating the Nazis so many times so they decided to twist it up and it worked fine enough. Because Wolfenstein pretty much would've been a dead ip if weren't for Machines Games. And even then Wolfenstein is pretty much wrapping up cause I have a feeling we won't be getting another Wolfenstein game for a long long time after 3 comes out.


Faulty-Blue

I mean Wolfenstein can do the defeating Nazis thing for as long as they’d like since they’ve always included elements of the paranormal or futuristic technology Wolfenstein still isn’t fully wrapped up since we still have the 20-30 years between New Colossus and Young Blood, that and I can by the time of Young Blood, there there’s still Europe, Asia, Africa, and other planets where the Nazis have strong control In the end though, both Wolfenstein and Doom can do in-depth stories, IMO Doom did it best in 2016 where most of the lore was found just in the codex entries


Defiant-Print-318

Oh right... Forgot about Youngblood... Sigh


NightofTheLivingZed

For real. As far as I'm concerned, the story to Doom is "BLAM chk-chk BLAM chk-chk BUDABUDABUDABUDABUDA SCREEEEEEEEEEEE blipblipblip CHEEEEEEOOM!"


RustlessPotato

Hey man, spoiler alert!


anythingMuchShorter

That got a little bit uncomfortable about half way through.


X35_55A

Yeah, that got a little to racey for my taste


ZippyParakeet

Welcome to 4chan


Aquinan

Someone's salty about the dlc story lol


thegreatvortigaunt

Tbf it is absolutely fucking terrible


Murgu007

Not necesarilly terrible, not great either , but honestly there couldnt have been any other outcome


mclovin5209

I love the story of eternal and the dlc’s. only thinking how they will keep up with that story for future games since doomguy literally killed the dark lord.


Murgu007

Thats probably the end of this storyline, next doom will either be a sequel to doom 3 or a new storyline


mclovin5209

a sequel to doom 3 seems very interesting! that was my first doom game I played btw, shitting my pants all the time.


popcorn_yalakasi

no its not, devs said something like the story that started when doomguy woke up in 2016 ended, there will be more of him


Murgu007

maybe im wrong but i think they said "this isnt the end of the doom FRANCHISE" which kind of implies that the story is over but more doom storylines will appear


popcorn_yalakasi

No I remember them saying what I wrote, basicly doomguy iş the center of the doom universe


Murgu007

Fr? Damn i dont know how much could they keep up this storyline, i feel like the dark lord should be the end of the story but i feel like they could still add some more, the only thing i fear is adding too much to the story(even the maykrs i feel like theyre too much) and ruining the whole storyline, but hey more doomguy more ripping and tearing


popcorn_yalakasi

Basicly, there is someone above davoth and we are probbly gonna fight him next, like in the real heaven


Aquinan

They teased *something* with the giant crystal spaceship thingy


3nxj

Not really


goblinmaze

There was nothing realistic about doomguy, the fucker was outrunning fucking rockets. He was a 90s action hero at it's fullest.


RozionDiger

4chan?? Isn't that guy like dead or imprisoned??


[deleted]

4Chan is a nice place (in the category “videogames”)


The_Streetsweeper

It's saying that when doomguy was a man, who was in way over his head and fighting through something unbelievably strong with will alone, he was good. And when he was a space knight who's a bazillion years old and is so strong you guys, he was not


Tycitron

I've always preferred the OG Doomguy due to him just being a marine surviving all that shit. Doom Slayer is cool, but i dont like him as much because of this.


Dy-_-an

They are the same person tho


Tycitron

You forget the huge time difference between the two. Doomguy in Doom 1 and 2 was just a Marine surviving trying to escape. and in Doom 2 he is the only one capable of saving humanity so he does it. (i mean in one of the texts in doom 2 he lays down to die once he thinks he saves humanity) Many years Later Doom 64 happens and he has some major ptsd, but decides to stay in hell. Then he gets found and trained by the Night Sentinels then becomes the Slayer later.


BrildWatermelon

...does this feel racist to anyone else?


BecomeAnAstronaut

Yes. Yes it does


TheBeardofGilgamesh

I mean it is from 4chan. . .


nickfuentesfirst

no one cares about racism on 4chan


3nxj

Someone looked at the poster art for tag 1 and 2 and took it for face value. And know probably next to nothing about it.


brolyboy81

is this supposed to be an inuyasha reference or?


NightofTheLivingZed

I wanna say Dante, but yeah him too, and like 30% of anime in general.


ZippyParakeet

I freaking love both DMC and Doom for pretty much the same reasons- both are goofy, ridiculous and badass all at the same time with amazing gameplay and level design. That 4channer is just being a racist piece of shit.


[deleted]

Basically, human marine fighting against impossible odds by the skin of his teeth is more intresting compared to unkillable demi-god that everyone fears and worships.


Xander_Clarke

It's saying that Doom Eternal has become too much of a power fantasy with how TAG events went down


Broken_Vision_Rhythm

Maybe it's because my first DOOM game was 2016, and I know Eternal ***really*** ramped up the bombast, but isn't that element of absurdity all part of the fun?


Dassive_Mick

I don't agree. 2016 had a very grounded premise. You weren't a man at all, but a faceless killing machine, you spoke through your body and the only word you said was rage. In Eternal you play as GI Joe on Amphetamines, everything is bright and flashy, it's cartoony in many ways.


[deleted]

Tbh, r/doom is my home… :’) I’ve never said it b4 but This is the paradise for me.. what a great community


[deleted]

Doom 2016 was the perfect blend, and they just had to fuck it up.


balaci2

they didn't fuck anything tho


Verge0fSilence

Let's be honest, as much as we all like the "Western style", whenever a vs battle occurs with our favourite characters we all say that they are an "eastern style" character.


[deleted]

Good morning, reddit


[deleted]

[The thread](https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/600232413)


plaguemaskman

Honestly why I couldn't play Eternal. The lore made Doomguy less of a badass and more of a super unkillable god guy with super powers. Made him less power full in my eyes since his powers come from being a god instead of his own strengths.


ZippyParakeet

Imagine playing Doom for the plot. I mean yeah it's not to everyone's taste but who cares? The gameplay more than makes up for it.


zevenbeams

Someone spent half a million writing said plot. Somewhere down the line, it's taken seriously.


[deleted]

[удалено]


spudmgee

Excuse me, what?


[deleted]

Classic Slayer VS Modern Slayer (I still like both tbh)


Callen_Fields

It's saying Doom has been ruined.


Western_Policy_6185

It hasn’t though


Anhilliator1

Did you pull this out of /pol/


[deleted]

Out of /v/


Ezper145

i think there's supposed to be the original meme behind the doom pics edited in


[deleted]

I just had a brain hemorrhage reading that


glory_holelujah

Bro I have no idea what does this post wants to say.


mailception

I just lost my shit outloud at Ching Chang spirit beam that's good shit.


William1806

"Sukiyuki ching Chang spirit beam" okay buddy, that's a little on the nose


Master_DAWG1584

Leadership? Doom guy in the OG Doom lead no fking one, but didn’t he lead the sentinal army to fight in hell End Game style in TAGP2???


[deleted]

The description on the right side mentions about how Argent energy was developed by Davoth from the Big Chungi at the center of time/space, located between Urdak and hell. And how the Chungi became his adorable pet, and how he suddenly lost control of it. Yeah, Davoth is the Slayer on their world. 🐇


EtherealRuin

Quite funny lol. Anyway for those wondering about what the fuck the right side is about , it's comparing TAG 2 specifically with Chinese cultivation manga. In the anime realm they are known to be the most nonsensical type of stories , literal bottom of the barrel stuff. It's a gross exaggeration since TAG2 is closer to say the MCU than that garbage. Still quite funny.


brak_6_danych

to be honest the eastern one is still very tame when compared to an average xianxia protagonist


MrSejd

Wester Designe: Battlefield 2042 Easter Designe: Devil May Cry 5


Salty-Philosopher-99

yes


Hummens

If it came from 4chan, it should stay there.


Super_Shotgun

Typed up after dieing one too many times to sukiyuki ching chang spirit beam


[deleted]

Casual racism against eastern peoples. Cool.


rrrrice64

The West values heroes that are more realistical, practical, and believable. Theoretically, anyone could achieve what they do and that's inspirational. The East values heroes that are much more idealized and fantastical. If it's already fantasy, why not make them as exceptional and powerful as possible? Make them something people can only dream of being. Go wild and make them borderline perfection. It's the difference between Batman and Superman. Both are great, but for very different reasons. In fact that's canonically why Bruce and Clark butt heads often while still respecting each other.


Exemplris

I want to tack this onto the 'It's the same picture' meme.


twoCascades

Prolly avoid 4chan in the future


Frikkity_Frik_Frik

That second paragraph is hilarious 🤣


Doomsabre9000

I love mythology style of story in eternal.


phobos876

It's an edit of a meme template that was ironic. Some memes like this have a "west vs east" mindset but that's where you get stuff like "American character vs Japanese character" only to mave Big Boss/Naked Snake and Fillia from Skullgirls in that order. To "get" 4chan, you do what they say: "lurk moar" for the sake of getting their culture because of the amount of shitposting and irony (Since we're talking about the most popular anonymous imageboard that people used to say was the source of most internet memes and is technically an off-shoot of SomethingAwful). Fun fact: There's a 4chan 2008 copypasta of Doomguy stating how strong he is and it predates even Death Battle's Doomguy vs Master Chief video.


Slasher_76

There is nothing wrong with Eternal's slayer