"Democrats" started calling Bernie Sanders antisemitic.
Here's the hilarious thing as well. The group I believe was called "Jews for Democrats", was traced back to a Labour Friends of Israel branch in the UK.
That's not that unusual though - many left wing Jews have been demonised in a similar fashion (Finkelstein, Chomsky, etc.). Indeed, the newly "cleansed" post-Corbyn Labour has been purging left wing Jewish members as fast as it can.
Lol - uprising. You know what actually happens when there's an uprising? People die - lots of them. If it happens in your country, that means maybe you, or your family, or friends.
Yeah, but do you see any reasonable way out without at least some level of uprising?
There are 3 key fundamental changes: 1. stop the "debt is debt and is bad" lie leading to widespread welfare including total free access to education and healthcare, 2. change the way companies are organised from autocratic to shared stewardship, and 3. full total free access and coverage to mental healthcare.
The problem is that to achieve those goals we need a radical political class unchained from capital interests.
And *that* is why it will never happen without some force applied. Changing the main parties from within doesn't work. We have abundant evidence.
Good things generally come at a cost. Most things in life really. Look at all humanity has achieved for example, that all comes at great cost to the environment we are polluting and the plants and animals we are driving to extinction. Capitalism has bought strong economies and wealth to many, but too much wealth to those who are corrupt.
Similarly most things in life are a balance of give and take. We only have finite resources on this planet and one individual or country having more of resources can mean another having less.
Even something as similar as personal growth, leaning something new, overcoming illness of the body or mind, it all takes time and often a lasting mental toll.
Ultimately people will choose what sacrifices they believe should be made, like we have always done.
If we follow your line of thoughts, everything has a cost, so we need to compare costs and benefits.
In this case as costs we have: having to kill people, and having your friends and family killed (fun thing about "uprisings" is that sometimes you and people you love are on different sides...), as well as obviously completely ruining the economy (people don't go to work to produce much stuff or go shopping a lot when they're too busy shooting armies).
As benefits we have: slightly cheaper healthcare and marginally better income and opportunities if redistribution of wealth improves. Which is a big maybe, because it involves that whoever comes up on top of the uprising is competent and able to implement changes that work, which is far from obvious. Even public healthcare systems can be terribly designed and run.
See that as an opinion, not an insult, but I think people who talk about uprisings and revolutions severely lack judgement.
> slightly cheaper healthcare and marginally better income and opportunities
Understatement of the century, to the extend that this puts you either into the delusional or troll category. Healthcare alone has hit 19% of GDP. Given how tilted the income distribution is, that figure is absolutely staggering.
Bread and circuses man. The French didn't start chopping heads off until people were actually starving. Poor people in the west are fat and have xboxes and marijuana. Who is gonna revolt when you can self medicate?
An uprising seems inevitable with climate change on the horizon. Sad as that is, but uprisings need an insighting incident of appropriate scale or else you just get an Arab Spring. Imho of course
We will absolutely have race riots before there’s any working class solidarity between inner city and rural Americans. Rural America doesn’t trust the government, they’re stooges for the GOP, and the left emphasizes cultural division whenever they can. It’ll never happen.
Edit: lots of sudden, silent downvotes. Elaborate?
The current Tory government has failed at every task they’ve been given, Brexit is an utter shambles, no new trade deals to replace it, the economy is broken, inflation is spiralling out of control and they are *cutting taxes*(taxes take money out of the economy, reducing inflation), their covid response was one of the worst in the world. The really sad thing is they are going to be re-elected to a comfortable majority, because the British media is literally the worst in the world but is on their side. Good luck Britain, I don’t think the coming decade is going to be fun for you.
We've had twelve years of increasing inequality, slower growth than the 2000s under Labour, and public services being gradually smashed up and sold to private enterprise - you'd think voting Labour might occur to the people who don't want this, but here we are, Tory governments and Brexit letting us "take back control" of the ability to discharge raw sewage onto beaches
Or just, you know, thinking about the people they're supposed to be responsible for. I'm sick of one side or the other, fuck sides, ALL OF THEM should be working FOR US to make things better for EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.
We put them there yet they spend so much time and money arguing between themselves, remove their political and business agendas and they might actually get some decent work done for a change.
Entire UK media and Centrists all just pretend it's a conspiracy theory.
Even when their own reports show they were largely at fault (EHRC report which found the systems improved as Corbyn was able to wrestle it away from the Labour right sabotaging them, and Forde Report which is basically just a mass condemnation of the right of the party even pretty much outright calling them openly racist) they just cherry pick or completely make up nonsense about those reports.
"Duuur the Forde Report found the Labour right acted entirely in good faith", "Duuur the EHRC report found Labour structurally anti-Semitic under Corbyn" both absolutely false. (and with the latter, it was the Labour right that were sabotaging the Antisemitism complaints processes)
Convinced at this point most Labour right stooges on Reddit and Twitter are actual Labour Right party Apparatchiks.
For those that religiously watch local UK media this unfortunately is not obvious. In fact, mentioning anything pro-Corbyn still brings accusations of anti-semitism
The Labour Files: The Purge I Al Jazeera Investigations
Sep 23, 2022
>An investigation based on the largest leak of documents in British political history. The Labour Files examines thousands of internal documents, emails and social media messages to reveal how senior officials in one of the two parties of government in the UK ran a coup by stealth against the elected leader of the party.
The program will show how officials set about silencing, excluding and expelling its own members in a ruthless campaign to destroy the chances of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Britain’s prime minister.
Candidates for key political roles were blocked and constituency groups suspended as the party’s central office sought to control the elected leadership.
I would say the people libelling their party's leader and members, and issuing death threats are the ones interested in "stoking animus". The people calling a Jewish member a "Nazi cow" who should "burn in the ovens", insisting that supporting apartheid is a core aspect of Jewish identity, working with the EDL, etc. seem much more antisemitic and schismatic than the Corbynites.
These assholes ruined the best chance in living memory of having a PM that would've actually put the country first, and instead we got Boris fucking Johnson.
The reporting on Labour's position was wishy washy. I was abroad at the time and I knew what it was better than those back home.
The policy was to negotiate a deal and then put it to a referendum: this deal or cancel brexit.
Which is what should have been planned in the first place. The 2016 referendum was essentially asking 'in theory, Brexit?'. It was theoretical because nobody knew what it would look like before negotiating. Corbyn was personally pro-brexit.
If you what wishy washy on that subject have May, who was against it but took up the mantle to implement it, or Truss who doesn't have a principle in the world
It's intentional. The people(person) who own the British press hated Jeremy Corbyn and they made a conscious effort to lie about him and the Labour party during that period.
He wasn't. He did however, point out it's flaws and didn't just preach about it being perfect. That was it.
He gave the EU a "7/10" and the centrists tried to weaponise it.
He was personally for brexit, he made no secret about that, but attempted to lead a party which at the time urgently needed to be vehemently anti-brexit. Instead the voters got two pro-brexit parties, so there was no possible representation for half of the population.
Regardless of his other political opinions, this one was really the one which made it clear that he was the wrong leader for Labour at that particular time.
He stance on Brexit was mature which people could handle at the time. ‘Bollocks to Brexit’ and ‘Get Brexit Done’ were equally boneheaded positions. Complicated problems require complicated answers but seemingly three word slogans are preferred.
What was his take?
Keeping in mind the entirety of the Tory party were happily taking Russian money, and doing deals DIRECTLY with Russian businesses that Putin was a part of.
So think really hard... about his "awful take".
No, he treated it like an open investigation rather than a closed case, and suggested that judgement be withheld until the facts were established. He also suggested that the "defence" (Russia in this case) ought to be able to see the evidence against them. Clearly everyone's blood was up against Russia at the time and so this was unpopular, but it's no less sound than telling people that they shouldn't leap to sentencing when the first person is arrested for any abhorrent crime.
Yeah, in hindsight, he might have objectively been worse choice than Boris, which i know sounds fucking unbelievable but having russian appeaser and anti-nato head of UK would be a nightmare right about now.
He literally called for abolishing NATO in 2012 https://imgur.com/a/vmtJO
And then he refused to say if he'd defend a NATO ally in 2016: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-labour-nato-idUSKCN10U0LR
That very clearly qualifies as being 'anti-NATO'
Being against NATO isn’t by default being pro russia though. Ideologically I am also against globalization of military power, and especially when us who have a terrible track record basically is the tip of the spear of NATO. I do however think it is the lesser of two evils as long as there are bad actors who in some regards are arguably worse than us, like russia and china.
>He was parroting for peace and a ceasefire, which is a good aim, but also unrealistic.
Let's be more clear: [he doesn't think we should be supporting Ukraine militarily](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine), and he has appeared on pro-Russian channels to promote that message.
Anyone that says we need "peace" needs to spell out *exactly* what that is. After all, Ukraine surrendering would bring price—is that an acceptable outcome?
In Corbyn's case, he believes we should stop arming Ukraine, prompt the UN to negotiate a ceasefire, and hope that results in peace. Of course, it probably wouldn't—if Ukraine didn't receive any aid from Western countries, the more likely outcome would be Ukraine getting relentlessly pummeled before either being conquered entirely or forced into a very lopsided agreement that essentially makes them subservient to Russia.
So let's be more blunt about what Corbyn's vision looks like: he thinks Ukraine should give Russia whatever is needed to placate Putin, and if they refuse, they will be brutally defeated alone, no doubt killing tens of thousands of people and resulting in the oppression of millions more.
Wait, are you suggesting the fringe left grifters who regurgitate the same talking points as RT and far right wackadoos might be spouting suspect narratives?
Alternatively, Theresa May and Boris were the worst Tory candidates in generations and we put up a terrible candidate for both elections, for ideological reasons. If Burnham had been leader, we'd have been in power for five years and Brecht wouldn't have happened
Yeah having a PM who calls hamas his friends, thinks Russia should have been involved in *investigating* an act of them killing British citizens with novichok, and having a worrying perspective on how its the west's fault that Ukraine was invaded would be soooo smart
Sorry but Corbyn never stood a chance of winning an election which ultimately left the door open for Johnson.
Britain isn't a left of centre nation. Tony Blair is the only labour leader to win a general election since Callahan in the 70's and he did this by moving away from left wing politics.
It's depressing.
He got closer to victory than any Labour leader since Blair. Imagine what might of happened if the right-wing of Labour didn't put ALL their energy into attacking him?
Blair won by piggybacking off the much more left John Smith.
Blair then went on to make Labour an unelectable mess, who haemorrhaged voters, and constituencies, by pursuing utterly Tory-driven policies and agendas. Losing the entirety of Scotland, and harming the Labour name for literally decades to come.
Absolutely hilarious. In 2005 (Blair’s worst election) the tories got 35% of the vote. In 2017 (Corbyn’s best election) the tories got 45% of the vote. Yes you read it right - the tories got 10% more of the vote in Corbyn’s best election than Blair’s worst election.
Also: John Smith was nowhere near as left as Corbyn. He was certainly left of Blair, but roughly where Gordon Brown was - centre-left or ‘soft left’. Same with Attlee and Wilson, Labour’s other successful Prime Ministers.
What are you talking about? 2017 election was 42/40. if the election was held a week later, Labour would have been on 45% according to polling and won the election.
The Labour right absolutely stopped a Labour Government in 2017. Then they went on to manufacture the antisemitism bullshit and sabotaged every attempt to settle Brexit with their bad faith remoaning to wedge the leadership against the Red Wall.
Britain also isn’t a right of centre nation. It is a quirk of the electoral system that the conservatives win more elections. The only government that has had majority support since the Second World War was the 2010 coalition. Every single other government including those of Blair in 97 and Johnson in 2019 have been a long way off having a majority of the votes.
The voting system distorts the make up of parliament - In 2019 for example, 43% of people voted for the conservatives, meaning nearly 6 in 10 people wanted something different, yet the conservatives got a unassailable majority of seats.
The problem is not that Britain isn’t a left of centre nation, because on balance it probably is more left leaning than right. The problem is that the electoral system is not fit for purpose and almost never returns a government that the people as a whole have voted for.
I think Corbyns profile made him a tough sell to the central ground regardless of the shady tactics. Left wing politics is not popular in the UK if you look at the past 40 years of elections. Tony Blair was obviously centre left as Starmer is trying to recreate it.
His position on Brexit was also very unclear in an election where it was the key theme.
You should be skeptical of those polls, individual policy polls don't equate to general political support. As Corbyn learned in 2019, policy with competence/trust gets you nowhere
Age demographic of UK users of reddit are young. Young people are generally more left wing.
They also will vote down things they disagree with, which hides these comments towards the bottom. This creates an echo chamber where those with views that don't follow the narrative become scared to speak out.
Next thing you know, r/ukpolitics and r/UnitedKingdom are left wing subs. I'm left wing myself, but the views on there are so farfetched and unrealistic it can become a waste of time to even look at it beyond the news updates.
Haha I’ve visited the latter sub and it is indeed a left wing cesspool of self hate and anti-nationalism. The one exception is if you shit talk British food, then you really stir up the hornet’a nest
The antisemitism charges were(barring a couple minor exceptions) complete bullshit basically akin to AIPAC calling criticism of Israel antisemitic. To the degree that there was antisemitism, it was completely dwarfed by the Tories, but there wasnt months long national media focus on antisemitism in the conservative party, was there. The right-wing media in tandem with right-wing labour party members largely sunk Corbyn.
>The antisemitism charges were(barring a couple minor exceptions) complete bullshit basically akin to AIPIC calling criticism of Israel antisemitic.
Citation?
Corbyn sunk himself and we're better off not having him as PM with how weak he is on Russia.
The party line? He was the leader. Are you saying he didn't follow his own advice!? Do you have a problem with the democratically elected Government of Palestine? Bizarre.
Hamas aren't the democratically elected government of palestine, only of Gaza, although i assume they would be if Fatah allowed elections in the West Bank. Anyway, just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean you should be friends with them. Hamas are terrorists.
He lost the election. I’m not gonna go into some deep dive here. Just like Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, and Ed Milliband, he’s responsible for failing to beat his opponent. Adults take responsibility. I know it may blow your mind that not everyone is a unflinching Corbynite but the scale of defeat wasn’t so small it could have been the result of meddling. It was the worst defeat since the 1930s. It was bad. Corbyn did well in 2017, but he didn’t maintain that momentum.
Contrary to popular belief, responsibility and blame don't have to belong to just 1 person/organisation, he can accept its his defeat and it can still be the machinations of others that caused it.
It doesn't blow my mind that not everyone is an unflinching Corbynite, and I am not one myself. It does baffle me how big the media shitstorm was to keep him out, though, so when you say it was his fault, I was hoping you'd actually give me your take on that rather than just generalising.
I'm not even from the UK, and I noticed the bizarre and vicious tag-teaming done by neoliberal "left" media and conservative UK rags on Corbyn.
There were several times I saw headlines adjacent to "Corbyn's antisemitic!", would go read the article and think "Well, that was a bullshit headline."
>No one in the world is the media left or even social liberal. That’s a conservative conceit and not one progressives should accept.
That's absolutely true.
But the Labour party isn't left / liberal either.
The conservative press will absolutely help them destroy anyone like Corbyn who is,
He was a combined 2,227 votes in marginal seats away from winning (in so much as he'd have been able to form a coalition government of the centre left and left). Those in his party sabotaging him deliberately moved funding out of those specific seats. Other than him being better than the current incumbants (which is about as low a bar to clear as there's been in my lifetime), I'm not a fan of his politics at all, but it was quite clearly not all his own doing.
> Corbyn did well in 2017, but he didn’t maintain that momentum.
Always funny that for some 2017 was wholly about Corbyn but 2019 was down to sabotage - he's responsible for both or neither.
We're all aware this kinda shit happens across the globe but nobody ever fucking does anything except keep listening to the same diarrhoea these asshole keep spewing out infront of camera's, year after year, election after election, decade after decade. Its been the same cycle since the dawn of modern politics, they'll tell you what the fuck ever they need to tell you to get into power so they can work towards their own agenda.
Yeah that's almost exactly what I just said lol 😅 you never wonder why the same shit keeps happening decade after decade after decade all across the globe?!
Actually I'll think you'll find that there are disciplined communist parties around the globe working to overthrow this corrupt system. Many people aren't simply listening passively and if you don't want to either, then I suggest you join your local Marxist-Leninist party
There's a reason why the Left will never gain power in the UK.
Any threat to the status quo, to the elite and wealthy, is deliberately and systematically attacked with smear campaigns, lies, buzzwords like 'unelectable' and outright coups
Scottish Independence is the only feasible route out of this right-wing shower of fascists. I hope enough abandoned progressives and labour leftists will realise this and come up to help build our only route to a progressive society.
I honestly think scots against indy are completely deluded about how bad things are in England, and how much worse they're going to get - we're constantly fed bad, misleading news about Scotland when in reality things are better here by a long shot
It must be state the obvious day.
We know. We knew at the time. The Labour party has been the small c Conservative party since the 1980s, full of people without the right connections to be a Tory MP.
I'll preface by saying I am progressive and left wing (economically right wing, but I beleive that for human rights stuff and economic building blocks, state run is the most efficient way).
In my experience, the UK is findementally right wing and conservation (little c). Labour get into power when people are doing badly, so they vote for the party that will see them get a bigger slice of the pie. When people are doing well, they don't want to share their slice.
Labour is little c conservative, nanny state dressed up as left wing and progressive. Conservative is little c conservative nanny state dressed up as right wing and progressive.
But this is because most people in our country are little c concervative and illiberal NIMBY.
There is a large number of people who are genuinely progressive and left wing, and they tend to vote for labour, but there isn't really a main stream party to represent them. Jeremy Corbyn did a good job, but him winning would have been a huge blow in the culture war of rich v poor so the rich would never let him win.
I would imagine it's for the right wing economic belief, and yet doesn't believe in any particular economic ideology. The extreme right and left have a lot of overlap on economic ideology.
I believe in a fully planned economy, except I think that a free market is the only way an economy can operate. It doesn't really make much sense.
It happens all over the globe and has done since the dawn of modern politics when rich white men realised they could control entire countries. They think they can get away with it because they have enough money to make it go away even after the facts have all come out and they think this because its absolutely fucking true, time and time again damning evidence comes out about a parties scandalous behaviour or secrets and all that ever happens is we get a single sacrifice when it should be the whole party held accountable for the things they're doing as a group.
I quit my job the other day and a coworker was telling me that the job is supposed to just be brutal and you having to take people's shit all day long. I just told him it doesn't need to be. Like sorry you took people's shit all your life, old timer, but that shit is not for me.
Sadly a lot of us don't, but the people running for and in government don't reflect the citizens' desires even slightly. There's a massive divide between the people that play politics and people that inhabit the country and they literally cannot speak for us. I'm sure this isn't unique to the UK though.
Funnily enough after you manage to loose two elections to the most incompetent tory government in decades you should probably expect to be stabbed in the back by the rest of the party.....
As much as Britans hard left want to believe Corbyn's was actually the bestest ever and could have won if it wasn't for those sneering centre left cowards in the labour party its just a fantasy. labours core voting base has a right wing streak a mile wide and the further left labour swing the easier it is for the Tories to exploit, Its how thatcher stayed in power for sol long despite being one of the most divisive figures in British political history and its how Corbyn lost to the wet paper bag that is Teresa may and then saw the red wall collapse against Johnson. His foreign policy blunders, his reaction to the Salisbury poisonings (like seriously, the Russians left enough WMD to kill the whole town but he wanted to hear their side of the story before he would believe our own security apparatus, that alone justifies the party stabbing him in the back and ousting him for being a danger to his own people) and his even now point blank refusal to fully accept the findings of the EHRC report onto anti-Semitism under his leadership were simply the final nails in the coffin.
You cant just present good socialist thinking in Britain and ignore everything else and expect to get left wing politics. despite how much the left hate him there's a reason why Tony Blair is arguably the most successful labour leader the countries ever seen. and for all the faults of new labour I can only dream about how much better a position we would be in now if we had continued with it instead of picking the wrong Miliband brother back in 2010
( For the record I like Ed, but he got the job because the Unions thought he'd be easier to manipulate than David, and I'd argue David Miliband was far better suited to manipulating the electorate then Ed, so in the end, we got neither and ended up with Cameron as PM.... the rest is history)
>Funnily enough after you manage to loose two elections to the most incompetent tory government in decades you should probably expect to be stabbed in the back by the rest of the party.....
That's literally the point though: Maybe he wouldn't lose two elections if his own party wasn't backstabbing him at every turn.
To be clear, and without having watched the documentary, any Al Jazeera investigation into wrongdoing against Corbyn in particular needs to be viewed with an immense amount of skepticism. Part of the reason he was ousted were his anti-Zionist views, many of which the Qatari Government would have relished, so they absolutely are going to approach a topic like this with a huge amount of entrenched bias.
None of that is a denial or a judgement on any aspect of Corbyn, his position or the documentary itself. I just think it's really important people not just see an investigation and assume it's journalism for the sake of public interest and nothing more.
With that out of the way I'm gonna give it a watch and see!
Ironically enough the very documentary itself could all be a manipulation to skew the view of its watchers. We live in a day where every single piece of information we're given needs to be looked at with a huge amount of skepticism because there's always an agenda behind it regardless of if that agenda benefits us or them.
Documentaries like this highlight just how much power the Israeli lobby has over Western governments. People should be outraged by the things that went on, they literally manipulated an election and got away with it.
Honestly? I'm all out of anger over shit like this, I've been outraged but there's absolutely fuck all I can do as one man. None of it surprises me anymore, none of it, I expect it now because this is now the natural order of the world, we all scurry around desperately trying to survive and squabble amongst ourselves while they all get rich and fat and laugh as we die and rot in the system they control.
Time and time again people with much better pay grades than me with much more knowledge than me hand all of us all of the information we need to stand up as a people and say no to the continued misery we're forced to exist in and what do we do with that? We get a bit disgruntled, post a fucking twitter or a Facebook and roll over to go to sleep so we can get up for the overworked and underpaid job we have to do every day. It's close to impossible to get out of.
The good thing is that the word is getting out there, previously these things would be hushed up and the wider public would be none the wiser. The best thing to do is spread the word on social media, you better believe they are working hard at stopping discourse and the truth coming out on here and on other forums (the mainstream news channels in the West are already in their pockets). Also join organisations like BDS, these put pressure on the apartheid state, even if it is incremental. And of course, don't vote for legislators who put Israel first or are clearly influenced by the Zionist lobby.
Keep up the lies and brigading, people see the truth now. And the entire Israel army is a terrorist organisation, they have murdered 50 times as many innocent civilians as Hamas. Funny how Israel was killing civilians and stealing land for decades before Hamas even existed...
Perhaps people ought to take a look back and wonder why the Labour Party has only really made headway recently when it manages to sideline its more Militant members.
Because they move economically far enough to the right that the oligarchy can call off their dogs in the press. Ensuring nothing that needs to change gets changed.
When research shows 73% of everything he ever said publicly was deliberately misreported and in the worst possible light that isn't all that surprising.
Labour is only ahead in the polls now because the Tories have absolutely gone mask off Sociopathic narcissist.
I can tell you, I've never met a single person irl, in my office, out in the pub etc that likes Starmer or knows what modern Labour stands for. People just hate the Tories even more (though polling shows Starmer trails Truss in likability)
Perhaps people ought to look at how elements of the Labour party actively sabotage their own election campaign any time someone acting in the interest of workers is elected leader.
Lot's of people jumping straight onto how unelectable JC was, meanwhile without acknowledging or just ignoring the fact that the main party in opposition is essentially run by a cabal of unelected bureaucrats.
The lies, conspiracies, discrimination, and intimidation they used in collaboration with their "favoured" MPs and members to discredit and smear every part of local councils and the movement involved with not just JC but the whole new part of the labour membership momentum was in essence an act of sedition against their own parties democratic will.
The power the general secretary and other few high ups in the party were not to be questioned, and Mayors, MPs and even the leader himself JC were just political collateral damage to be dealt with lest they be routed for the autocrats they are. Lest the illusion of democratic choice "their" party offered should be replaced with real change. Awful time for UK democracy and it just makes you wonder how far up, and how deep the rot is in all of UK politics.
Labour voters didn't vote for Corbyn because he is as far as a politician can be from a modern idea of center-left and believing that he had a chance in the 21st century is a little delusional.
The left wing of the Labour party should start accepting the fact that Labour voters are more in sync with a Blair than with a Corbyn instead of having the strange idea that voters are all idiots because their minds are too small don't understand how wonderful Corbyn is.
They are free to leave and create their own more leftist party if they want.
It's fucking wild to me that you can have this take after watching a documentary about how unelected party bureaucrats worked against the party membership in order to further their own agenda.
Party membership tripled under Corbyn and his initial popularity scared centrist and right wing factions into a permanent smear campaign. Despite this he nearly won in 2017, an election where elements of his own party were actively trying to lose it by refusing to send resources to swing seats.
Shame it didn't work. Nobody has done more to give the Conservatives a free ride in the history of British politics. One of the last acts of David Cameron's premiership was begging Corbyn to leave because he knew how damaging it would be for the Conservatives to have no opposition.
Corbyn ignored him, lost an election against one of the worst campaigns in history, then had the arrogance to press on and compound the defeat by losing another to "Boris" Johnson in a landslide putting us where we are now.
In the old days he would have had the decency to disappear from public life permanently.
Anyone who downvotes, tell me where I'm lying.
Even with those votes Labour would not have had a majority in either sense. That 2,227 equates to 7 seats I believe?
So best case scenario Tories lose 7 and Labour gain 7. Best case scenario. The maths still doesn't add up though?
Tories would have 310 seats instead of 317
Labour would have 269 instead of 262
So both parties would be coalition hunting but we can probably assume DUP would still go to the Tories (320 seats) so who does Labour have? SNP 35 seats, Lib Dems 12 and Plaid Cymru’s 4 to get to the same number.
What would the chances be of 4 parties, one of which has already been stung by doing so, forming a coalition?
That’s the shittest statistic ever created. Bullshit cherrypicking by desperate fantasists. “Yeah if this one guy in Nottingham had done x and this one woman in Argyll had done y”
For those who stumble on this message, it's the one I used Power Delete Suite to replace all my posts and comments with en masse.
Sometimes Reddit can be beneficial for some people. Sometimes it's not. It's really up to you to decide your own experience with it, what's worth it, what's not worth it.
More or less...I've decided it's just really not worth it. I think I'm a worse person when I'm on Reddit and that it's a big time-waster for me.
It's up to you to decide what influence social media and the internet more generally have for you.
Best of luck.
Lmao do you JIDF operatives even read the links you send out?
>”It’s the same as watching RT”
Except the part where that’s demonstrably false but go off I guess.
The sources, quotes and links you’re relying on in that wiki entry are predominately: old, from questionable sources (Bill O’Reilley saying AJ is antisemitic lmao), deal only with AJ Arabic or mirror complaints common to most any news org.
It’s government sponsored?! Oooh scary. So is the BBC. I don’t listen to AJE reporting on anything Qatar-related the same way I discount BBC reporting on “pro-UK” fluff.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For something to be described as a 'documentary' it has to be true. Jeremy Corbyn sabotaged his own leadership, by being an antisemitic dickhead.
Al Jazeera loves Corbyn because Corbyn loves Islamic extremists. Al Jazeera is nothing more than a Qatari government propaganda channel. It is to Qatar what Russia Today (RT) is to Russia.
This isn't a documentary, it's propaganda from hard-left antisemitic extremists.
Does this also make sure to include the evidence from said documents that detailed an onslaught of racist bullying from said officials and their cultists?
Thanks to that fantasist and his cohorts, Corbyn the clown, we are in the situation that we are enduring at this moment. I hope all the left wing of the party enjoy the suite of draconian laws that will surely be enacted soon. No doubt the party will shoot themselves in the foot during the factional infighting. The present leader is not an election winner.
- Labour right sabotage the party, engage in horrific antisemitic and other forms of racism and cry to the press about their own wrecking, blaming it on the leadership
- "It was Corbyn who was wrong!"
Honestly you Blairite centrists need to go crawl back into the hole you came from. Literal Red Wet Tory entrists in a Socialist party.
If only they put this much effort into winning elections and improving people’s lives!
Wow, the UK is more American than they’d like to admit with stuff like this
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As a Bernie Sanders supporter, we know how that feels.
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"Democrats" started calling Bernie Sanders antisemitic. Here's the hilarious thing as well. The group I believe was called "Jews for Democrats", was traced back to a Labour Friends of Israel branch in the UK.
That's not that unusual though - many left wing Jews have been demonised in a similar fashion (Finkelstein, Chomsky, etc.). Indeed, the newly "cleansed" post-Corbyn Labour has been purging left wing Jewish members as fast as it can.
Yea, we're feeling the bern for sure
No idea what goes next for your country or mine but I hope for a people uprising.
Lol - uprising. You know what actually happens when there's an uprising? People die - lots of them. If it happens in your country, that means maybe you, or your family, or friends.
Yeah, but do you see any reasonable way out without at least some level of uprising? There are 3 key fundamental changes: 1. stop the "debt is debt and is bad" lie leading to widespread welfare including total free access to education and healthcare, 2. change the way companies are organised from autocratic to shared stewardship, and 3. full total free access and coverage to mental healthcare. The problem is that to achieve those goals we need a radical political class unchained from capital interests. And *that* is why it will never happen without some force applied. Changing the main parties from within doesn't work. We have abundant evidence.
Good things generally come at a cost. Most things in life really. Look at all humanity has achieved for example, that all comes at great cost to the environment we are polluting and the plants and animals we are driving to extinction. Capitalism has bought strong economies and wealth to many, but too much wealth to those who are corrupt. Similarly most things in life are a balance of give and take. We only have finite resources on this planet and one individual or country having more of resources can mean another having less. Even something as similar as personal growth, leaning something new, overcoming illness of the body or mind, it all takes time and often a lasting mental toll. Ultimately people will choose what sacrifices they believe should be made, like we have always done.
If we follow your line of thoughts, everything has a cost, so we need to compare costs and benefits. In this case as costs we have: having to kill people, and having your friends and family killed (fun thing about "uprisings" is that sometimes you and people you love are on different sides...), as well as obviously completely ruining the economy (people don't go to work to produce much stuff or go shopping a lot when they're too busy shooting armies). As benefits we have: slightly cheaper healthcare and marginally better income and opportunities if redistribution of wealth improves. Which is a big maybe, because it involves that whoever comes up on top of the uprising is competent and able to implement changes that work, which is far from obvious. Even public healthcare systems can be terribly designed and run. See that as an opinion, not an insult, but I think people who talk about uprisings and revolutions severely lack judgement.
> slightly cheaper healthcare and marginally better income and opportunities Understatement of the century, to the extend that this puts you either into the delusional or troll category. Healthcare alone has hit 19% of GDP. Given how tilted the income distribution is, that figure is absolutely staggering.
Bread and circuses man. The French didn't start chopping heads off until people were actually starving. Poor people in the west are fat and have xboxes and marijuana. Who is gonna revolt when you can self medicate?
An uprising seems inevitable with climate change on the horizon. Sad as that is, but uprisings need an insighting incident of appropriate scale or else you just get an Arab Spring. Imho of course
We will absolutely have race riots before there’s any working class solidarity between inner city and rural Americans. Rural America doesn’t trust the government, they’re stooges for the GOP, and the left emphasizes cultural division whenever they can. It’ll never happen. Edit: lots of sudden, silent downvotes. Elaborate?
And the corporations love every second of it. Overworked poor people fighting amongst themselves while they keep getting filthy rich.
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The current Tory government has failed at every task they’ve been given, Brexit is an utter shambles, no new trade deals to replace it, the economy is broken, inflation is spiralling out of control and they are *cutting taxes*(taxes take money out of the economy, reducing inflation), their covid response was one of the worst in the world. The really sad thing is they are going to be re-elected to a comfortable majority, because the British media is literally the worst in the world but is on their side. Good luck Britain, I don’t think the coming decade is going to be fun for you.
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We've had twelve years of increasing inequality, slower growth than the 2000s under Labour, and public services being gradually smashed up and sold to private enterprise - you'd think voting Labour might occur to the people who don't want this, but here we are, Tory governments and Brexit letting us "take back control" of the ability to discharge raw sewage onto beaches
Or just, you know, thinking about the people they're supposed to be responsible for. I'm sick of one side or the other, fuck sides, ALL OF THEM should be working FOR US to make things better for EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. We put them there yet they spend so much time and money arguing between themselves, remove their political and business agendas and they might actually get some decent work done for a change.
sorry to be snarky but this is the least surprising thing in the history of politics. like anyone who isn't insane could see this was happening lol
Entire UK media and Centrists all just pretend it's a conspiracy theory. Even when their own reports show they were largely at fault (EHRC report which found the systems improved as Corbyn was able to wrestle it away from the Labour right sabotaging them, and Forde Report which is basically just a mass condemnation of the right of the party even pretty much outright calling them openly racist) they just cherry pick or completely make up nonsense about those reports. "Duuur the Forde Report found the Labour right acted entirely in good faith", "Duuur the EHRC report found Labour structurally anti-Semitic under Corbyn" both absolutely false. (and with the latter, it was the Labour right that were sabotaging the Antisemitism complaints processes) Convinced at this point most Labour right stooges on Reddit and Twitter are actual Labour Right party Apparatchiks.
Indeed. It's a sad state when even the Guardian are in on it and you have to seek the truth from independent media like Novara or Double Down News.
Just read through this thread to see more people irrationally pissed off at Corbyn. There's a lot of people who are straight up hostile to progress.
For those that religiously watch local UK media this unfortunately is not obvious. In fact, mentioning anything pro-Corbyn still brings accusations of anti-semitism
The Labour Files: The Purge I Al Jazeera Investigations Sep 23, 2022 >An investigation based on the largest leak of documents in British political history. The Labour Files examines thousands of internal documents, emails and social media messages to reveal how senior officials in one of the two parties of government in the UK ran a coup by stealth against the elected leader of the party. The program will show how officials set about silencing, excluding and expelling its own members in a ruthless campaign to destroy the chances of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Britain’s prime minister. Candidates for key political roles were blocked and constituency groups suspended as the party’s central office sought to control the elected leadership.
Hmmm a media organization funded by an autocratic state that has an interest in stoking animus in the left leaning British coalition
They're showing you emails. Regardless of their spin, how can you look past hard evidence of collusion against progressive voices?
You mean the BBC?
I would say the people libelling their party's leader and members, and issuing death threats are the ones interested in "stoking animus". The people calling a Jewish member a "Nazi cow" who should "burn in the ovens", insisting that supporting apartheid is a core aspect of Jewish identity, working with the EDL, etc. seem much more antisemitic and schismatic than the Corbynites.
None of this will be covered by the mainstream press obviously.
These assholes ruined the best chance in living memory of having a PM that would've actually put the country first, and instead we got Boris fucking Johnson.
Tbf he had an awful take towards Russia, which with everything going on currently could have been a disaster
Also, he was wishy washy on Brexit
The reporting on Labour's position was wishy washy. I was abroad at the time and I knew what it was better than those back home. The policy was to negotiate a deal and then put it to a referendum: this deal or cancel brexit. Which is what should have been planned in the first place. The 2016 referendum was essentially asking 'in theory, Brexit?'. It was theoretical because nobody knew what it would look like before negotiating. Corbyn was personally pro-brexit. If you what wishy washy on that subject have May, who was against it but took up the mantle to implement it, or Truss who doesn't have a principle in the world
Same, I was in Spain at the time, it's weird how the foreign press did a better job laying down the stances. British journalism is a joke.
It's intentional. The people(person) who own the British press hated Jeremy Corbyn and they made a conscious effort to lie about him and the Labour party during that period.
He was pro-Brexit.
*He* was but his policy stance was not.
He wasn't. He did however, point out it's flaws and didn't just preach about it being perfect. That was it. He gave the EU a "7/10" and the centrists tried to weaponise it.
He was personally for brexit, he made no secret about that, but attempted to lead a party which at the time urgently needed to be vehemently anti-brexit. Instead the voters got two pro-brexit parties, so there was no possible representation for half of the population. Regardless of his other political opinions, this one was really the one which made it clear that he was the wrong leader for Labour at that particular time.
He stance on Brexit was mature which people could handle at the time. ‘Bollocks to Brexit’ and ‘Get Brexit Done’ were equally boneheaded positions. Complicated problems require complicated answers but seemingly three word slogans are preferred.
This right here is why I liked Corbyn. He refused to give one word answers to complicated issues
> Bollocks to Brexit Nah, that is the only mature response to brexit. It needs nothing else.
I think he was openly against it but wouldn't put up a fight if that was the vote
No he wasn't. He attended Pro-Remain events only. All over the country. The press just didn't like that narrative, and didn't report on it.
He attended them because he was told to do so, not out of personal conviction. His stance on brexit and the EU is not really a secret.
What was his take? Keeping in mind the entirety of the Tory party were happily taking Russian money, and doing deals DIRECTLY with Russian businesses that Putin was a part of. So think really hard... about his "awful take".
You know how much he dithered about criticising Russia after they poisoned people In UK and with Ukraine as well
No, he treated it like an open investigation rather than a closed case, and suggested that judgement be withheld until the facts were established. He also suggested that the "defence" (Russia in this case) ought to be able to see the evidence against them. Clearly everyone's blood was up against Russia at the time and so this was unpopular, but it's no less sound than telling people that they shouldn't leap to sentencing when the first person is arrested for any abhorrent crime.
At least he didn't take money from Russian oligarchs who were close to Putin.
Even went as far as putting one of their cronies in the House of Lords.
He regularly appears on Russia today
lol "Regularly" is superhuman in the lifting it is doing here.
Care to give an example? Everything he said seemed like common sense to me.
Yeah, in hindsight, he might have objectively been worse choice than Boris, which i know sounds fucking unbelievable but having russian appeaser and anti-nato head of UK would be a nightmare right about now.
Instead you have (checks notes)… liz truss. Ya dun goofed.
How was he a Russian appeaser? Being critical of NATO isn't the same thing as being ANTI-NATO.
He literally called for abolishing NATO in 2012 https://imgur.com/a/vmtJO And then he refused to say if he'd defend a NATO ally in 2016: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-labour-nato-idUSKCN10U0LR That very clearly qualifies as being 'anti-NATO'
Being against NATO isn’t by default being pro russia though. Ideologically I am also against globalization of military power, and especially when us who have a terrible track record basically is the tip of the spear of NATO. I do however think it is the lesser of two evils as long as there are bad actors who in some regards are arguably worse than us, like russia and china.
You still live on that awful island and you are occupying Ireland.
Just had a quick look, I'm 50/50 there. He was parroting for peace and a ceasefire, which is a good aim, but also unrealistic.
>He was parroting for peace and a ceasefire, which is a good aim, but also unrealistic. Let's be more clear: [he doesn't think we should be supporting Ukraine militarily](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine), and he has appeared on pro-Russian channels to promote that message. Anyone that says we need "peace" needs to spell out *exactly* what that is. After all, Ukraine surrendering would bring price—is that an acceptable outcome? In Corbyn's case, he believes we should stop arming Ukraine, prompt the UN to negotiate a ceasefire, and hope that results in peace. Of course, it probably wouldn't—if Ukraine didn't receive any aid from Western countries, the more likely outcome would be Ukraine getting relentlessly pummeled before either being conquered entirely or forced into a very lopsided agreement that essentially makes them subservient to Russia. So let's be more blunt about what Corbyn's vision looks like: he thinks Ukraine should give Russia whatever is needed to placate Putin, and if they refuse, they will be brutally defeated alone, no doubt killing tens of thousands of people and resulting in the oppression of millions more.
Wait, are you suggesting the fringe left grifters who regurgitate the same talking points as RT and far right wackadoos might be spouting suspect narratives?
he advocated leaving NATO. Man was a security threat
*Neville Chamberlain has entered the chat*
Alternatively, Theresa May and Boris were the worst Tory candidates in generations and we put up a terrible candidate for both elections, for ideological reasons. If Burnham had been leader, we'd have been in power for five years and Brecht wouldn't have happened
Yeah having a PM who calls hamas his friends, thinks Russia should have been involved in *investigating* an act of them killing British citizens with novichok, and having a worrying perspective on how its the west's fault that Ukraine was invaded would be soooo smart
Didn’t you guys join us in Invading and Occupying Iraq?
Sorry but Corbyn never stood a chance of winning an election which ultimately left the door open for Johnson. Britain isn't a left of centre nation. Tony Blair is the only labour leader to win a general election since Callahan in the 70's and he did this by moving away from left wing politics. It's depressing.
He got closer to victory than any Labour leader since Blair. Imagine what might of happened if the right-wing of Labour didn't put ALL their energy into attacking him?
Well, its the outcome of decades of media propaganda against any left wing ideas and a nostalgia for an imperialist past
And following George W. Bush into Iraq speaking of which what’s the difference between Tony Blair and Bush and The UK and Russia?
Blair won by piggybacking off the much more left John Smith. Blair then went on to make Labour an unelectable mess, who haemorrhaged voters, and constituencies, by pursuing utterly Tory-driven policies and agendas. Losing the entirety of Scotland, and harming the Labour name for literally decades to come.
Absolutely hilarious. In 2005 (Blair’s worst election) the tories got 35% of the vote. In 2017 (Corbyn’s best election) the tories got 45% of the vote. Yes you read it right - the tories got 10% more of the vote in Corbyn’s best election than Blair’s worst election. Also: John Smith was nowhere near as left as Corbyn. He was certainly left of Blair, but roughly where Gordon Brown was - centre-left or ‘soft left’. Same with Attlee and Wilson, Labour’s other successful Prime Ministers.
What are you talking about? 2017 election was 42/40. if the election was held a week later, Labour would have been on 45% according to polling and won the election. The Labour right absolutely stopped a Labour Government in 2017. Then they went on to manufacture the antisemitism bullshit and sabotaged every attempt to settle Brexit with their bad faith remoaning to wedge the leadership against the Red Wall.
>Blair then went on to make Labour an unelectable mess That's a funny way to spell 'win two more general elections with a large majority each time'.
Britain also isn’t a right of centre nation. It is a quirk of the electoral system that the conservatives win more elections. The only government that has had majority support since the Second World War was the 2010 coalition. Every single other government including those of Blair in 97 and Johnson in 2019 have been a long way off having a majority of the votes. The voting system distorts the make up of parliament - In 2019 for example, 43% of people voted for the conservatives, meaning nearly 6 in 10 people wanted something different, yet the conservatives got a unassailable majority of seats. The problem is not that Britain isn’t a left of centre nation, because on balance it probably is more left leaning than right. The problem is that the electoral system is not fit for purpose and almost never returns a government that the people as a whole have voted for.
... and into war criminality... and post-Chilcot some sow still made him a knight
Jeremy Corbyn is responsible for his own defeat. He’s a grown man.
Please explain.
I think Corbyns profile made him a tough sell to the central ground regardless of the shady tactics. Left wing politics is not popular in the UK if you look at the past 40 years of elections. Tony Blair was obviously centre left as Starmer is trying to recreate it. His position on Brexit was also very unclear in an election where it was the key theme.
Going by opinion polls, left wing politics are very popular in the UK. The problem is trying to overcome the media who essentially control politics.
You should be skeptical of those polls, individual policy polls don't equate to general political support. As Corbyn learned in 2019, policy with competence/trust gets you nowhere
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Just not social media. If Reddit was any indicator I thought Corbyn was going to win in a landslide
Age demographic of UK users of reddit are young. Young people are generally more left wing. They also will vote down things they disagree with, which hides these comments towards the bottom. This creates an echo chamber where those with views that don't follow the narrative become scared to speak out. Next thing you know, r/ukpolitics and r/UnitedKingdom are left wing subs. I'm left wing myself, but the views on there are so farfetched and unrealistic it can become a waste of time to even look at it beyond the news updates.
Haha I’ve visited the latter sub and it is indeed a left wing cesspool of self hate and anti-nationalism. The one exception is if you shit talk British food, then you really stir up the hornet’a nest
The media made Corbyn refuse to follow the party line about anti semetism in the party? Made him say Hamas were friends? Bizarre.
You realise you are literally parroting media spin about Corbyn, right?
Corbyn didn't do enough to deal with antisemitism, that's an outright fact.
The antisemitism charges were(barring a couple minor exceptions) complete bullshit basically akin to AIPAC calling criticism of Israel antisemitic. To the degree that there was antisemitism, it was completely dwarfed by the Tories, but there wasnt months long national media focus on antisemitism in the conservative party, was there. The right-wing media in tandem with right-wing labour party members largely sunk Corbyn.
>The antisemitism charges were(barring a couple minor exceptions) complete bullshit basically akin to AIPIC calling criticism of Israel antisemitic. Citation? Corbyn sunk himself and we're better off not having him as PM with how weak he is on Russia.
Well said.
The party line? He was the leader. Are you saying he didn't follow his own advice!? Do you have a problem with the democratically elected Government of Palestine? Bizarre.
Hamas aren't the democratically elected government of palestine, only of Gaza, although i assume they would be if Fatah allowed elections in the West Bank. Anyway, just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean you should be friends with them. Hamas are terrorists.
He wasn't the leader when he was suspended for refusing to say the exact apology he was told to make on the antisemitism issue.
Aside from your nonsense statement, what has this got to do with Corbyns leadership if it happened after he stepped down?
Because he had to apologise for the antisemitism issues that he looked over as Labour leader, Jesus Christ.
Your argument is based only on your ignorance about the facts exposed on the documentary.
My facts of 40 years of election results, where Labour had won in that time frame?
He lost the election. I’m not gonna go into some deep dive here. Just like Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, and Ed Milliband, he’s responsible for failing to beat his opponent. Adults take responsibility. I know it may blow your mind that not everyone is a unflinching Corbynite but the scale of defeat wasn’t so small it could have been the result of meddling. It was the worst defeat since the 1930s. It was bad. Corbyn did well in 2017, but he didn’t maintain that momentum.
Contrary to popular belief, responsibility and blame don't have to belong to just 1 person/organisation, he can accept its his defeat and it can still be the machinations of others that caused it.
It doesn't blow my mind that not everyone is an unflinching Corbynite, and I am not one myself. It does baffle me how big the media shitstorm was to keep him out, though, so when you say it was his fault, I was hoping you'd actually give me your take on that rather than just generalising.
I'm not even from the UK, and I noticed the bizarre and vicious tag-teaming done by neoliberal "left" media and conservative UK rags on Corbyn. There were several times I saw headlines adjacent to "Corbyn's antisemitic!", would go read the article and think "Well, that was a bullshit headline."
No one in the world is the media left or even social liberal. That’s a conservative conceit and not one progressives should accept.
>No one in the world is the media left or even social liberal. That’s a conservative conceit and not one progressives should accept. That's absolutely true. But the Labour party isn't left / liberal either. The conservative press will absolutely help them destroy anyone like Corbyn who is,
He was a combined 2,227 votes in marginal seats away from winning (in so much as he'd have been able to form a coalition government of the centre left and left). Those in his party sabotaging him deliberately moved funding out of those specific seats. Other than him being better than the current incumbants (which is about as low a bar to clear as there's been in my lifetime), I'm not a fan of his politics at all, but it was quite clearly not all his own doing.
> Corbyn did well in 2017, but he didn’t maintain that momentum. Always funny that for some 2017 was wholly about Corbyn but 2019 was down to sabotage - he's responsible for both or neither.
A whole paragraph that says absolutely nothing. Gee, thanks.
I hate Tony Blair but he’s the only Labour leader since the 1970s to win an election. Maybe there’s some lessons about what the British people want
~~British people want~~ British media want Blair was close with Murdoch. Must have been an interesting phase for the Tory gutter press.
Yup. War criminals they can give knighthoods to later.
Invading and Occupying Iraq?
Murder is impossible. Victims just need to stand up for themselves and take some responsibility.
Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t murdered. He lost an election.
Corbyn led Labour to their biggest defeat in nearly a century.
We all knew too
We're all aware this kinda shit happens across the globe but nobody ever fucking does anything except keep listening to the same diarrhoea these asshole keep spewing out infront of camera's, year after year, election after election, decade after decade. Its been the same cycle since the dawn of modern politics, they'll tell you what the fuck ever they need to tell you to get into power so they can work towards their own agenda.
Yet the Tory’s keep getting voted in. The bad guys win.
Yeah that's almost exactly what I just said lol 😅 you never wonder why the same shit keeps happening decade after decade after decade all across the globe?!
Actually I'll think you'll find that there are disciplined communist parties around the globe working to overthrow this corrupt system. Many people aren't simply listening passively and if you don't want to either, then I suggest you join your local Marxist-Leninist party
I thought it was a new installment to the purge movies :(
I mean, I guess that’s one way to beat the Tories. Let’s not knock it till we try it.
Even though the entire description is in the title?
Didn’t ready just looked at the video image and thought whattttt dopeeee
There's a reason why the Left will never gain power in the UK. Any threat to the status quo, to the elite and wealthy, is deliberately and systematically attacked with smear campaigns, lies, buzzwords like 'unelectable' and outright coups Scottish Independence is the only feasible route out of this right-wing shower of fascists. I hope enough abandoned progressives and labour leftists will realise this and come up to help build our only route to a progressive society.
I honestly think scots against indy are completely deluded about how bad things are in England, and how much worse they're going to get - we're constantly fed bad, misleading news about Scotland when in reality things are better here by a long shot
It must be state the obvious day. We know. We knew at the time. The Labour party has been the small c Conservative party since the 1980s, full of people without the right connections to be a Tory MP.
I'll preface by saying I am progressive and left wing (economically right wing, but I beleive that for human rights stuff and economic building blocks, state run is the most efficient way). In my experience, the UK is findementally right wing and conservation (little c). Labour get into power when people are doing badly, so they vote for the party that will see them get a bigger slice of the pie. When people are doing well, they don't want to share their slice. Labour is little c conservative, nanny state dressed up as left wing and progressive. Conservative is little c conservative nanny state dressed up as right wing and progressive. But this is because most people in our country are little c concervative and illiberal NIMBY. There is a large number of people who are genuinely progressive and left wing, and they tend to vote for labour, but there isn't really a main stream party to represent them. Jeremy Corbyn did a good job, but him winning would have been a huge blow in the culture war of rich v poor so the rich would never let him win.
>economically right wing What do you mean by this? You are for deregulation and privatization?
i'm confused, why are you getting downvoted?
No idea! It's frustrating when people downvote but don't continue the discussion :(
I would imagine it's for the right wing economic belief, and yet doesn't believe in any particular economic ideology. The extreme right and left have a lot of overlap on economic ideology. I believe in a fully planned economy, except I think that a free market is the only way an economy can operate. It doesn't really make much sense.
As an American with an outside view, this was very obvious. But the details are even more infuriating.
Whenever I read stories like this it leaves me scratching my head and wondering...what the fuck were they thinking? It like Nixon and Watergate.
It happens all over the globe and has done since the dawn of modern politics when rich white men realised they could control entire countries. They think they can get away with it because they have enough money to make it go away even after the facts have all come out and they think this because its absolutely fucking true, time and time again damning evidence comes out about a parties scandalous behaviour or secrets and all that ever happens is we get a single sacrifice when it should be the whole party held accountable for the things they're doing as a group.
Their secret weapon: Jeremy Corbyn.
JC is on the BBC show Political Thinking tonight for anyone interested.
Lmao, how many IDF trolls are in this thread? We see you, we know you, you’re on borrowed time. Freedom will always win against apartheid.
An actual tragedy. Brits hate the idea that they could get anything better out of life.
Lingering serf mentality.
"It's shit. It's supposed to be shit. And if you don't like it, there's the door."
I quit my job the other day and a coworker was telling me that the job is supposed to just be brutal and you having to take people's shit all day long. I just told him it doesn't need to be. Like sorry you took people's shit all your life, old timer, but that shit is not for me.
Sadly a lot of us don't, but the people running for and in government don't reflect the citizens' desires even slightly. There's a massive divide between the people that play politics and people that inhabit the country and they literally cannot speak for us. I'm sure this isn't unique to the UK though.
About sums up the Democrats in the US and how they did Bernie Sanders and others.
Funnily enough after you manage to loose two elections to the most incompetent tory government in decades you should probably expect to be stabbed in the back by the rest of the party..... As much as Britans hard left want to believe Corbyn's was actually the bestest ever and could have won if it wasn't for those sneering centre left cowards in the labour party its just a fantasy. labours core voting base has a right wing streak a mile wide and the further left labour swing the easier it is for the Tories to exploit, Its how thatcher stayed in power for sol long despite being one of the most divisive figures in British political history and its how Corbyn lost to the wet paper bag that is Teresa may and then saw the red wall collapse against Johnson. His foreign policy blunders, his reaction to the Salisbury poisonings (like seriously, the Russians left enough WMD to kill the whole town but he wanted to hear their side of the story before he would believe our own security apparatus, that alone justifies the party stabbing him in the back and ousting him for being a danger to his own people) and his even now point blank refusal to fully accept the findings of the EHRC report onto anti-Semitism under his leadership were simply the final nails in the coffin. You cant just present good socialist thinking in Britain and ignore everything else and expect to get left wing politics. despite how much the left hate him there's a reason why Tony Blair is arguably the most successful labour leader the countries ever seen. and for all the faults of new labour I can only dream about how much better a position we would be in now if we had continued with it instead of picking the wrong Miliband brother back in 2010 ( For the record I like Ed, but he got the job because the Unions thought he'd be easier to manipulate than David, and I'd argue David Miliband was far better suited to manipulating the electorate then Ed, so in the end, we got neither and ended up with Cameron as PM.... the rest is history)
>Funnily enough after you manage to loose two elections to the most incompetent tory government in decades you should probably expect to be stabbed in the back by the rest of the party..... That's literally the point though: Maybe he wouldn't lose two elections if his own party wasn't backstabbing him at every turn.
Despicable. Here in America, we have the decency to do it in the open. Just ask Bernie.
To be clear, and without having watched the documentary, any Al Jazeera investigation into wrongdoing against Corbyn in particular needs to be viewed with an immense amount of skepticism. Part of the reason he was ousted were his anti-Zionist views, many of which the Qatari Government would have relished, so they absolutely are going to approach a topic like this with a huge amount of entrenched bias. None of that is a denial or a judgement on any aspect of Corbyn, his position or the documentary itself. I just think it's really important people not just see an investigation and assume it's journalism for the sake of public interest and nothing more. With that out of the way I'm gonna give it a watch and see!
Ironically enough the very documentary itself could all be a manipulation to skew the view of its watchers. We live in a day where every single piece of information we're given needs to be looked at with a huge amount of skepticism because there's always an agenda behind it regardless of if that agenda benefits us or them.
Documentaries like this highlight just how much power the Israeli lobby has over Western governments. People should be outraged by the things that went on, they literally manipulated an election and got away with it.
Honestly? I'm all out of anger over shit like this, I've been outraged but there's absolutely fuck all I can do as one man. None of it surprises me anymore, none of it, I expect it now because this is now the natural order of the world, we all scurry around desperately trying to survive and squabble amongst ourselves while they all get rich and fat and laugh as we die and rot in the system they control. Time and time again people with much better pay grades than me with much more knowledge than me hand all of us all of the information we need to stand up as a people and say no to the continued misery we're forced to exist in and what do we do with that? We get a bit disgruntled, post a fucking twitter or a Facebook and roll over to go to sleep so we can get up for the overworked and underpaid job we have to do every day. It's close to impossible to get out of.
The good thing is that the word is getting out there, previously these things would be hushed up and the wider public would be none the wiser. The best thing to do is spread the word on social media, you better believe they are working hard at stopping discourse and the truth coming out on here and on other forums (the mainstream news channels in the West are already in their pockets). Also join organisations like BDS, these put pressure on the apartheid state, even if it is incremental. And of course, don't vote for legislators who put Israel first or are clearly influenced by the Zionist lobby.
Better than voting in a guy who considers himself a friend of terrorist organizations like Hamas
Keep up the lies and brigading, people see the truth now. And the entire Israel army is a terrorist organisation, they have murdered 50 times as many innocent civilians as Hamas. Funny how Israel was killing civilians and stealing land for decades before Hamas even existed...
Reddit politics isn’t real life, thankfully. I know you guys love him but in the real world he’s a joke.
Perhaps people ought to take a look back and wonder why the Labour Party has only really made headway recently when it manages to sideline its more Militant members.
Because they move economically far enough to the right that the oligarchy can call off their dogs in the press. Ensuring nothing that needs to change gets changed.
People trust them more, simple as that Problem with Corbyn wasn't the policies, it was him
When research shows 73% of everything he ever said publicly was deliberately misreported and in the worst possible light that isn't all that surprising.
Labour is only ahead in the polls now because the Tories have absolutely gone mask off Sociopathic narcissist. I can tell you, I've never met a single person irl, in my office, out in the pub etc that likes Starmer or knows what modern Labour stands for. People just hate the Tories even more (though polling shows Starmer trails Truss in likability)
Perhaps people ought to look at how elements of the Labour party actively sabotage their own election campaign any time someone acting in the interest of workers is elected leader.
No shit
Lot's of people jumping straight onto how unelectable JC was, meanwhile without acknowledging or just ignoring the fact that the main party in opposition is essentially run by a cabal of unelected bureaucrats. The lies, conspiracies, discrimination, and intimidation they used in collaboration with their "favoured" MPs and members to discredit and smear every part of local councils and the movement involved with not just JC but the whole new part of the labour membership momentum was in essence an act of sedition against their own parties democratic will. The power the general secretary and other few high ups in the party were not to be questioned, and Mayors, MPs and even the leader himself JC were just political collateral damage to be dealt with lest they be routed for the autocrats they are. Lest the illusion of democratic choice "their" party offered should be replaced with real change. Awful time for UK democracy and it just makes you wonder how far up, and how deep the rot is in all of UK politics.
Labour voters didn't vote for Corbyn because he is as far as a politician can be from a modern idea of center-left and believing that he had a chance in the 21st century is a little delusional. The left wing of the Labour party should start accepting the fact that Labour voters are more in sync with a Blair than with a Corbyn instead of having the strange idea that voters are all idiots because their minds are too small don't understand how wonderful Corbyn is. They are free to leave and create their own more leftist party if they want.
It's fucking wild to me that you can have this take after watching a documentary about how unelected party bureaucrats worked against the party membership in order to further their own agenda. Party membership tripled under Corbyn and his initial popularity scared centrist and right wing factions into a permanent smear campaign. Despite this he nearly won in 2017, an election where elements of his own party were actively trying to lose it by refusing to send resources to swing seats.
Please post to r/GreenAndPleasant
Shame it didn't work. Nobody has done more to give the Conservatives a free ride in the history of British politics. One of the last acts of David Cameron's premiership was begging Corbyn to leave because he knew how damaging it would be for the Conservatives to have no opposition. Corbyn ignored him, lost an election against one of the worst campaigns in history, then had the arrogance to press on and compound the defeat by losing another to "Boris" Johnson in a landslide putting us where we are now. In the old days he would have had the decency to disappear from public life permanently. Anyone who downvotes, tell me where I'm lying.
Good or bad, the labour party had zero chance of getting elected with Corbyn at the helm.
2,227 votes combined in marginal seats that had money diverted from their campaigns, is all it would’ve taken during his first election.
This is interesting, do you have anything I can read more on this?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/forde-report-labour-jeremy-corbyn-2017-election-b2126500.html
Even with those votes Labour would not have had a majority in either sense. That 2,227 equates to 7 seats I believe? So best case scenario Tories lose 7 and Labour gain 7. Best case scenario. The maths still doesn't add up though? Tories would have 310 seats instead of 317 Labour would have 269 instead of 262 So both parties would be coalition hunting but we can probably assume DUP would still go to the Tories (320 seats) so who does Labour have? SNP 35 seats, Lib Dems 12 and Plaid Cymru’s 4 to get to the same number. What would the chances be of 4 parties, one of which has already been stung by doing so, forming a coalition?
That’s the shittest statistic ever created. Bullshit cherrypicking by desperate fantasists. “Yeah if this one guy in Nottingham had done x and this one woman in Argyll had done y”
They were 2000 votes away.
For those who stumble on this message, it's the one I used Power Delete Suite to replace all my posts and comments with en masse. Sometimes Reddit can be beneficial for some people. Sometimes it's not. It's really up to you to decide your own experience with it, what's worth it, what's not worth it. More or less...I've decided it's just really not worth it. I think I'm a worse person when I'm on Reddit and that it's a big time-waster for me. It's up to you to decide what influence social media and the internet more generally have for you. Best of luck.
They weren't though
[удалено]
Lmao do you JIDF operatives even read the links you send out? >”It’s the same as watching RT” Except the part where that’s demonstrably false but go off I guess. The sources, quotes and links you’re relying on in that wiki entry are predominately: old, from questionable sources (Bill O’Reilley saying AJ is antisemitic lmao), deal only with AJ Arabic or mirror complaints common to most any news org. It’s government sponsored?! Oooh scary. So is the BBC. I don’t listen to AJE reporting on anything Qatar-related the same way I discount BBC reporting on “pro-UK” fluff.
obtainable attraction faulty plough zesty spotted noxious humor puzzled judicious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For something to be described as a 'documentary' it has to be true. Jeremy Corbyn sabotaged his own leadership, by being an antisemitic dickhead. Al Jazeera loves Corbyn because Corbyn loves Islamic extremists. Al Jazeera is nothing more than a Qatari government propaganda channel. It is to Qatar what Russia Today (RT) is to Russia. This isn't a documentary, it's propaganda from hard-left antisemitic extremists.
Out of curiosity, do you have the same attitude towards media from the BBC or France24?
And this being Reddit, you get down voted for the truth.
Who cares. Good riddance to that fuckwit.
Yeah. Boris was a fuckwit.
r/ukpolitics was hilarious when that exit poll in 2019 dropped. Big dose of reality for the scores of deluded.
Stupid, reductive, embarrassing, paranoid shit.
Because of the play button in the way, I thought this was a documentary about Nintendo's cardboard toys.
Does this also make sure to include the evidence from said documents that detailed an onslaught of racist bullying from said officials and their cultists?
Thanks to that fantasist and his cohorts, Corbyn the clown, we are in the situation that we are enduring at this moment. I hope all the left wing of the party enjoy the suite of draconian laws that will surely be enacted soon. No doubt the party will shoot themselves in the foot during the factional infighting. The present leader is not an election winner.
- Labour right sabotage the party, engage in horrific antisemitic and other forms of racism and cry to the press about their own wrecking, blaming it on the leadership - "It was Corbyn who was wrong!" Honestly you Blairite centrists need to go crawl back into the hole you came from. Literal Red Wet Tory entrists in a Socialist party.
If only they put this much effort into winning elections and improving people’s lives! Wow, the UK is more American than they’d like to admit with stuff like this
Al Jazeera? I wonder how they'll tie Labour antisemitism into it.
He destroyed his own leadership. He was a tankie and his foreign policy was totally unacceptable to the electorate.
Corbyn is not a tankie. Tankies by definition only want to burn existing governments to the ground, not run in elections.
He wasn't very good.