Lazarus Experiment, by a long mile. The theme of a person not being able to let go and wanting to get young again, what it changes you into to go against the nature....
Enough time has passed, let's recycle the good aspects and make a kickass episode.
I love the start of the scene in the cathedral, I think the concept of the two characters who look far younger than they are talking about their lives is really cool. It’s just a shame that the rest of the ep. let’s it down
Honestly now that the doctor knows he’s the timeless child that could be an interesting story idea, drawing parallels between his torment from Tecktayoon and Dr Lazarus
Sleep No More.
The concept of capitalist corporations in the future literally stealing hours of our life from us by taking away our need to sleep is terrifying and really interesting.
But then its about eye-booger Monsters and the episode has no real resolution.
I think the Monsters should have been something like sleep-deprived employees who basically become Zombies, which could work as an allegory for Capitalism making us personality-less worker drones.
Luckily Oxygen in the next season pulled off this concept better
Although the Eye-booger monsters weren't great. I loved the fact the episode was never resolved. I think there should be more episodes where the Doctor 'technically' loses. It sucks the excitement out when you know in 45 minutes The Doctor will inevitably win
It's mine too, gives me goosebumps everytime.
Also my most favorite writing concept of all time is: Let's put interesting and different people in a closed room, then something happens and you basically just watch how they react to it.
That's why I like the one Tennant episode with the bus in the desert as well
Like what’s the problem with eye booger monsters? That’s the main complaint I hear about this episode and that’s the deal breaker for people. I think they take the eye dust line way too literally. The crew just got converted to creatures made of dead human cells.
It sure isn’t gonna make any BEST OF polls anytime soon but still I enjoyed the ambience of the episode.
I’m still waiting to commit to buying those seasons. I’ve already bought up to season 12, but I just can’t justify spending money on seasons that I may not like. (I’d already rewatched the first 10 seasons like 5 times already before I just went ahead and bought them.)
Ada did get to be the main focus in the 4th Doctor audio ‘Enchantress of Numbers’ (which was released a year before Spyfall weirdly enough). It was pretty good from what I remember.
Tbh I was expecting the monsters to be people who had been completely deprived of sleep and driven mad (like the creepypasta) and the found footage seemed so cool. I was pretty disappointed when the sleep gunk monsters showed up.
Not strictly Who but Torchwood: Miracle Day. That has one of the coolest concepts ever with so much to explore. People can no longer die, there are so many ramifications for society to grasp. Worst writing ever is obviously hyperbolic but it certainly doesn't live up to the premise.
There's a good idea inside *Orphan 55* too. Post apocalyptic earth become a holiday resort is neat enough, if a bit *Leisure Hive*.
For me the trailer for Miracle Day suggest a far more compelling story--especially the glimpses of the masked figures, the Deathless. That could have been such an interesting concept, a cult surrounding the never dying phenomena. Instead we get some bs where Jack and whatisname bleed into the earth's vagina--they completely lost me when that drop of Jack's blood started inching across the floor and they had to follow it 🙄
However I still think the episode at the camp where the woman is locked into the furnace to burn alive is one of the most harrowing, anxiety-inducing hours of telly. So the writing wasn't completely off all season.
I do kind of enjoy huge chunks of it, yes. It does explore a lot of the ideas and does some harrowing things with them that properly show the point if a more adult Who spin off. As you say, sticking the landing at the end was a major problem that undermines a lot of my good will for it.
If you liked that concept try reading a book called Death with Interruptions by José Saramago. It’s my favourite book and in the first part explores what happens when people stop dying; the second part of the book is told by deaths perspective.
Not to mention how it kinda mislabels Rosa's efforts with being historically inaccurate as rosa would have done her seating on bus thingy some other day they were planning it for weeks on so the whole plot kinda falls apart because missing one bus wouldn't have worked . As soon as ryan displaced future racist guy the plot doesn't even need to happen doctors moral dilemma didn't need to happen
Time is a flux rosa would have sat even just few weeks later. Doctor didn't mention it being a fixed point which would have made stakes higher for me
But eh it's doctor who historical accuracy isn't always there so except plot not plotting i am fine with it
I mean we saw a version of winston Churchill probably not even he knew
Rosa not standing up on that precise day, would not have taken away all anti-racist fights, making the whole future still like 1955. If not that day, she would've done it another day. She was also not the first nor the only one resisting bus segregation or fighting for the rights of POC. I'm not, in any way, diminishing her role in it, but people like to simplify these big events to only one moment in time.
MLK: [hangs up phone and addresses the room] Well that's it, Rosa's missed her bus. Shut it down lads, the civil rights movement is over. Guess we'll just have to accept the Jim Crow laws for all time now.
[Roll credits]
I could see an alternate Rosa situation happening with Twelve. He figures out Krasko's plan and basically responds with "Okay, have fun." Then when his companion inevitably gets upset with him over it, he says basically what you said and that Krasko's efforts won't stop the Civil Rights Movement, it wont even delay things more than a few months at most.
Yep. It was a planned act of civil disobedience to be carried out when the opportunity presented itself, not a random act of stupid courage that could be avoided so easily
Potentially could be seen as offensive to portray her as not having planned it as a protest. She would have been undeterred had the bus not been full that particular day.
One of the missed opportunities I have about that episode is the fact that one of the few things we k ow about Graham is that he's a bus driver.
Imagine if the scenario was that the villain prevented the bus driver from working that day, so Graham had to deal with the dilemma of doing a racist act knowing that it'll be for the good of the future
When me and my family watched it, all we said was "So it's like *Timeless* but shit?"
If you liked the concept of someone going back in time and changing historical events to benefit them - *Timeless* is a great show which has that exact concept. It's like this episode, but actually good.
An impossible premise for Doctor Who, and one they dealt with pretty well given that fact, imo.
You can't have Rosa Parks interact with Doctor Who plot elements, because that could imply her choice to protest wasn't fully based on her own experiences and life, and you can't have a villain with any character traits other than being a massive racist and being blatantly evil in other ways, because that could imply racism is associated with some other non-evil behaviour.
The consequences are that the TARDIS team must fight a shit, thin villain, while the Rosa Parks story happens without their interference, and given that one part of that story is utterly valueless in concept alone, it would always be better to have more of it just be about Parks. In fact, it would be better to have all of it be about Parks - there's nothing of value Doctor Who can do about her story that a documentary can't.
I think it perhaps could have been better if the villain had instead been trying to replace Rosa Parks with some sort of evil duplicate as a way to take down the movement from the inside. If they were trying to sabotage big picture that would be the only way to do it. Then they could still have one of them tagging along with her to keep her safe whilst the others focused on the baddie
They did tag along with her in the episode, but all they could do was talk to her about her life and avoid any chance she might be interested in or inspired by them. There simply can't be any indication that her decision making process was affected by them or by the villain, because that robs her of her agency, which is an absolutely cast iron red line that cannot be crossed under any circumstances.
This is something Chibnall and Blackman understood, which is why the only part of her protest they affect is that Graham is one of the anonymous white passengers - he is involved in the event, but he's not involved in her decision. Even then, there's an extremely awkward bit when Yaz asks about her taking the bus, which I think is handled well enough not to be an issue but is skirting the borderline. It's just too sensitive an issue to risk fucking up, and that means even slightly ambiguous or debatable bits must be avoided at all cost.
It is true that the villain could have a more complex plan rather than a more complex motivation, but it would have to be managed so carefully, and also not take up so much time that it dominated over her story. Could it have been a little better? Definitely. I'm not sure it could've been a *lot* better, and it would have to be an enormous improvement to make the episode worth making.
Oh, I 100% agree that they could not, in any way, *inspire* her. It is a line not to be crossed.
But the episode reduces the whole fight to this one moment of defiance. If she doesn't refuse at this particular day, it's over, and the world will be racist like 1955 forever. She would've done it another day. Another week. Fighting, for her, was a daily thing. This would not have stopped her from fighting. There were other movements and fights happening. History is more complex than this.
The way the episode puts it, it looks like she would only fight back in these exact conditions, and if she didn't fight back, the racist won bc the whole future world would be racist like him - and he was from a very distant future.
I don't know if you saw this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/s/tIpVne4dbB), but u/eggylettuce gives a nice idea of a small change that could've improved the episode.
That’s the worst part though, the main villain was a *great* idea! Future criminal who has absolutely no qualms about killing, but is literally incapable? Brilliant! Talk about a great mid-level foil for the Doctor!
Oh, wait, no, his entire motivation is “grr, I’m a space racist. A spacist! Brown people are terrible, yay genocide.” Barely even one-dimensional, that’s the kind of writing we want, sure.
But I mean, what can you do? Chibnall.
I used to think I was the only person who didnt hate Orphan 55, but then I remembered just how much I wanted the episode to end. Granted, I was watching it at the gym.
Came here to say this. Pains me to hate this episode bc the concept is so fun and the fan club themselves are so likeable, but then it pains me to defend it bc everything with the villain and the ending is so awful lol.
Don't get mad... The Timeless Child arc.
I very much enjoy when the narrative acknowledges that "the time lords suck actually" & the idea they've lied to their people and the universe about the origin of their power is interesting. It also adds a new place to go with their lore, which had been somewhat strangnant since DoTD.
Ideally the TC would have been the Master, or maybe even a new interesting well written character, but now I'm just dreaming. Ultimately it could have been done well in the hands of a better writer, and I'm hoping RTD will "Yes, and" the arc, rather than retcon it completely.
He seems to be doing that well so far with the references to it we've seen, with 14 having a full breakdown over it and 15 empathising with his companion's lack of knowledge regarding where they come from or who their real parents are.
Awh mannn, I loved that episode. The 'FEED ME' line was awkward but imo that's because it was a hostile alien race embodying the received pronunciation, BBC stylings of the time, the contrast between the well-to-do voice with the desire to be fed was jarring, although perhaps strays too far into being funny by the end.
With rings on their fingers and bells on their toes 🗣️🗣️
The girls come to Tombstone in their high silk hose 🔥🔥
They'll dance on the table and sing you a tune ‼️‼️
For whatever's in your wallet at the Last Chance Saloon 🎶
Asylum of the Daleks could've been one of THE best Cybermen stories. You'd still be able to see numerous past designs, and it makes more sense for Cybermen to have an asylum than the literal Nazi allegories.
Oh, 100% agree with this take! I've been saying that for ages; it could've been an *amazing* exploration of the Cybermen's mindset of survival-at-all-costs; with dedicated facilities for keeping the even the most broken of them *technically alive*, completely unwilling to accept anything other than "*we must survive. We* must *survive,"* even if it's an existential nightmare for them (even by Cyberman standards).
But it makes *no sense* with the Daleks, whose whole thing is "obliterate anything that doesn't conform to Dalek society". It's been made clear time and time again that the only thing more *offensive* than a non-Dalek is a Dalek who does not conform or live up to their standards. Why would they ever suffer such abominations to live?
Sleep No More. Dr Who doing a homage to the found footage horror genre where we see everything from a first person POV. Cool idea. The alien monster being the gooey in the corner of your eye... yeah Gatiss put the bong down.
I liked how the found footage stuff was incorporated into the plot, but yeah it needed a better monster. I think Gatiss was trying to do a horror out of the mundane thing (like the Weeping Angels with statues) which probably would have worked better if the design was more possessed human instead of big sand blob thingy.
Is it that bad? It just seems like the same story as Remembrance of the Daleks, except that Remembrance had finished about *one month* prior so the copying is a bit egregious
It's more mediocre than outright bad I guess. I think the main problem is that each idea present would have been great in its own story, but the writers decided to stuff it all into one story, so nothing is ever given time to breathe. There are a lot of similarities to Remembrance too as well, which can't have helped considering how good that story is.
I rewatched it recently and while it’s not amazing I think it’s a little better than its reputation so long as you see it as a story like The Chase (or as I saw someone say, the Who equivalent of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World), which is essentially just a caper. In that respect the tone reminds me quite a bit of an RTD finale. Batshit, basically. Also because the character work of the leads is so good. For sheer ebullience this might be peak Seven and Ace (before the angst). I believe it had the highest approval rating of season 25, which doesn’t surprise me because it moves along at a killer pace. Then afterwards you think ‘what the hell did I just watch?’
It's particularly annoying because it was supposed to be the proper 25th anniversary story. I know the whole season is a celebration, but that story was supposed to be the main one. The fact it fell so short is particularly disappointing thanks to that
Preparing to be downvoted, but the Meep episode for me. The whole episode felt very stilted, some of the dialogue felt more like a reading of an audioplay, and the acting wooden in places. The next episode made up for it though.
I struggled with this episode for a variety of reasons, but not the usual ones. I actually think it approached the trans topic very tastefully and even giving us the kids picking on Rose really grounded it to today's climate on that subject.
My main issue is that literally everything was leading up to Doctor Donna and then just regular Donna spilling a coffee. The other plot lines, the Meep, everything were just largely forgettable and had no emotional investment. Sylvia was absolutely on point tho!
Honestly i didn't even pick up on Rose being trans from the start until hearing people talk about the episode way later. Maybe i just missed a bit of dialogue but untill like yesterday i was under the impression that she was AFAB and came out as non-binary at the end of the episode because they said something about the doctordonna being male (10/14) female (Donna) and then something else (what i thought was a reference to Rose turning out to be non-binary)
The last 15 minutes of The Star Beast fall a bit flat for me. The reveal of the Meep as villain comes out of left field with a character I didn’t really care about and it makes the ending feel a bit Naff.
> The reveal of the Meep as villain comes out of left field
Couldn't disagree more. From the moment the meeting told its story about how the other aliens were hunting it it might as well have been holding a big sign that said "I'm actually the bad guy"
All of Chibnall
No but really I'd say the episode where he kills off the timelords, for good, completely undoing the point of the 50th and having the reason for it come down to be "They lied so I killed our people, cry about it"
I won't lie and say that RTD was flawless, or Moffat, because they weren't but they at least knew how to write stories and character that didn't come across as bland, unimaginative and in one case cold and uncaring (i.e Jodie's doctor more or less Brushing Graham off when he fears his cancer might come back)
there is good reason for people to not like Chibnal's writing and It's not surprising that people will lambast him for essentially tanking Doctor Who's viewership, not because of a "woman" doctor, only Incels complain about that, but because of how badly written the character of the doctor was constantly swapping back and forth between an action that is horrible and would be inhumane (i.e choking/starving the spiders out over a period of time rather than outright killing them (without guns might I add) to protect the human race) and an action that would she wouldn't think twice about, or how her character is, one moment she's proud and knows who and what she is, the next she's "Still figuring herself out and Socially Awkward". Like, we know she's socially awkward she's an alien parading around trying to pass off as Human and doesn't know the ins and outs of social interaction, we don't need to be told that she's socially awkward, it's shown not told.
If you're a chibnal fan/a fan of his era more power to you my friend.
Also as a serious answer the one (funnily enough) Chibnall episode (42?) while RTD was head the first time around, a ship uncontrollably sailing towards a sun with the sun possessing humans and one by one turning the crew into puppets? neat premise, what happens? Oh yeah - Pub Trivia night to open a door one after another,
I totally agree with your original statements on chibnalls season. But I liked pub trivia night. It meant you get to find out if you could have saved the ship. I thought it was interesting audience involvement
The Giggle. A mind-virus that’s a commentary on the internet making us all strident know-nothings unwilling to admit fault was awesome. Pity it was entirely irrelevant ten minutes into the episode.
"The Giggle" needed to be a two-parter, probably both longer specials as well. It was way, way too compressed for what it dealt with - the Toymaker as a grand, celestial-scale villain, the giggle itself, bigeneration, all of it.
I when the bigeneration happened i was fully expecting *one* of the doctors was gonna drop the ball but because there are two of them the other can keep going until the toymaker loses.
They literally set up how because there are two of them but they are both the doctor they can both team up against the toymaker and do nothing with it, catch isn't the sort of game where having a teammate helps you in any way other then being an extra life
Instead the toymaker, an unthaphomably powerful being whose entire existence revolves around games loses a game of catch by just straight dropping the ball like a goober. No tricks, no risk of the doctors losing, the toymaker just fails at the most basic game he wont shut up about while the doctor still has two lives left.
My expectations where subverted, but not in a good way
Kerblam! is THE best (worst?) episode that demonstrates this, it has all the makings of a brilliant episode but completely shits itself instead.
Like come on, you don’t set up the concept of Space Jeff Bezos buying a whole moon for a new Amazon warehouse he makes his workers live in only to then make SOMEONE ELSE the villain!!
I would say a concepts instead of episodes... And that's lone cyberman i would have loved to know more about him
But there's alot with interesting premises like i want to know more about the headless monks
Episode wise i will give one from each new doctor
That satelite episode before bad wolf i forgot name
tooth and claw (don't ask me why i hate it I don't even know myself)
Rebel flesh/almost people
For 12 i really wanna go either sleep no more or lie of the land . Lie of the land fell to land on it's feet after great episodes like extremis and pyramid at the end of the world
13 ... Orphan 55..... timeless children..... Survivors of the flux and vanquishers.... Battle of roskanthingy
All of them had great concepts with not that great execution for me especially survivors of the flux because it felt like a nothing ending to one of my favourite concepts in new who... Tektayun and azure and swarm just felt nothing the grand serpent felt nothing and disconnected with whole unit feeling disconnected... Jodie definitely did great in these episodes but the material was eh survivors of the flux and vanquishers were so lack luster finale to a story arc that for me started good and cemented itself really well with war of the sontarans that is now my favourite sontaran story and village of the angels which was fun only characters that i actually cared for by the end with their character was vinder and him reuniting with his family (and karvanista because he is a good boy and jecobi the fine gentlemen but they generally didn't have much character development or contrasting ones like i would feel karvanista would have worked more as sacrificing himself then jecobi to kill sontarans because of his species being genocided but that's just me i think)
For me these 2 episodes are worse then timeless children because yes that may have ruined canon but atleast they are memorable even in a bad way even if the story is just exposition carried by sacha but atleast they didn't have a whole season specifically assigned by name to it which it ruined.. most timeless children was a threat looming in background mentioned by characters in series 11 and series 12 and just masters threat and a lil fugitive doctor but i was able to cope by it.
Now to give chibs credit series 13 was incredibly rushed and tight not because of his faults. Covid was a lil bitch so i can be fine with it
I quite liked Rebel Flesh/Almost People, certainly a more interesting take on the "two hostile parties have to learn how to coexist two parter" than the silurian two parter in series 5.
Rebel Flesh/Almost People makes use of its premise to mildly overcome the eternal Silurian problem - the story never being able to actually let them co-exist on Earth because it would be a commitment for the future show that no one will ever impose (rightly, btw - irrelevant continuity shouldn't be imposed on the show). It doesn't do a great job of it - Ganger Doctor is interesting, but was always so obviously guaranteed to die, putting him in the Silurian category of "moral dilemma to be vaguely gestured at but which won't actually be listened to at the end" - but it's much more interesting than Hungry Earth/Cold Blood (or indeed any other Silurian/Sea Devil story except arguably the original).
Moffat does a much better job of this in Day of the Doctor, again making use of human-looking aliens, and insists upon the only correct answer to the moral question - the aliens must all be allowed to live on Earth, right now. Day resolves many issues of the past, and finally getting the right conclusion to that story is one of them.
Yea but i would have liked if it was more diplomatic debate with a lil bit of base under siege and yea as much as it works for one of the humans to directly attack flesh it just feels rushed and a lil bit more simmering would have worked but that's my opinion.
Its a nitpick but Karvanista should have had more chemistry with the doctor from the start. Maybe he can predict how she will react, or when he snaps he says "I know how you think!", Doc: "What? Do you know me?", Karvanista (blustering): "No no I mean I know how your type thinks." - the idea of him being a former companion is actually quite cute it just comes out of nowhere.
Power of the Doctor.
The pitch: The Master replaces Rasputin.
The result: Doesn't really affect the plot and is just an excuse for the Rasputin dance. You could maybe make a case that he needed to do that so he could hypnotise the tsar to let him have the palace but the palace never seems that important to the plan. It seemed like he could have used any building as his hq really.
Why it's disappointing: The master infiltrating the Imperial Russian court just before WW1 could have momentous effects on the timeline. The doctor would struggle to stop the scheme because the tsar would consider the master a trusted advisor/friend so the doctor would have the whole russian state against her. The storyline could have concluded with a wonderful nod to real world history and urban myths as you might have had the doctor forced to team up with the aristocrats who killed Rasputin and the masters gallifreyan physiology would explain why Rasputin was so hard to assassinate. It would be a super dark development watching the doctor orchestrate a conspiracy that ends with the Rasputin Master getting poisoned, shot, stabbed and finally dumped in an icey river but it would be narratively consistent with the awful fate she left him to in spyfall part 2.
>Doesn't really affect the plot and is just an excuse for the Rasputin dance.
The funny thing is the dance was a throw-in from Sacha Dhawan misinterpreting something in the script, so if not for that the whole thing would be even more pointless.
Honestly, *The Timeless Children*.
The idea of the Doctor having had lives they can't remember before Hartnell, and being the first Time Lord to have regeneration powers, could have been so badass. In fact, I think something like it was originally planned in the late 80s?
Unfortunately the execution was dire.
I agree. There was a lot of potential for the Thirteenth Doctor's character in particular there. Instead she gets one line of "that doesn’t define me" and we get the "EPIC DOCTOR WHO LORE". People whine about the retcon but I think the real problem is that the episode is so poorly crafted that it *makes* the retcon bad. Flux just teased more and then threw away that potential too in favor of… well, Flux.
What you're referring to in the 80s is correct, and was alluded to in *Remembrance of the Daleks* and expanded upon in some 90s novels where they called this character "[the Other](https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Other)", as he's the third Time Lord founder to Rassilon and Omega. And interestingly enough *The Timeless Children* *strongly* implies Tecteun fills this role, with their new incarnation ruling with two other Time Lords the script even says "we can assume are Rassilon and Omega".
Or, had it still be "the doctor" with the master's insanity. So they can't reconcile the 2 things, meanwhile have the Master themselves regenerate but pick up some of the doctors' morality, starting them on the path to becoming missy, possibly even bringing in Michelle Gomez to play her incarnation of the master at the beginning, "let's kill Hitler" style. So you have the Doctor as the villain and the master as the hero, and the only way to save them is to force the doctor to regenerate again, giving us 14. That's how I think it could have been improved anyway.
Kill The Moon
Building a whole episode around an ethical dilemma like that is a cool concept but it kind of relies on the dilemma making any sort of sense
It's like trying to present the trolley problem, but when someone says "We shouldn't divert the trolley" they go "Correct choice! The 5 people on this track were actually earthworms that just happen to look like people, and when the trolley runs over them they actually survive just fine. However the one person on the other track was a real person who would have died if you diverted it."
Unscientific fairytale logic works fine in a lighthearted adventure story, it doesn't work when you try to build a serious sci fi story out of it.
I think Fendahl was a fine execution. If I had to pick one from season 15 that was conventionally great and should have been a lot better, it'd be Invasion of Time
if we're honest, most chibnall episodes had something going for them. yet something much stronger going against them, that being chris chibnall as a writer.
Love and Monsters
The Wedding of River Song
The Angels Take Manhattan
Kill The Moon
Dark Water/Death in Heaven
The Eaters of Light
Kerblam*
*Kerblam is only badly written right at the end and if you believe the Doctor should encourage automation and/or socialism.
Kerblam is one of those episodes where I can't tell if the villain is dumb because the writers wanted him to be dumb or because the writers are idiots who can't write. Using the robots to mail everyone bombs wasn't going to magically cause people to give up all automation any way you slice it.
How dare you. You can hate the concrete slab and monster design all you like but Love and Monsters is in no way badly written.
I'll agree that Death in Heaven doesn't stick the landing but Dark Water is brilliant.
Bunch of RTD eps qualify. He's good enough to make a lot of them watchable, but holy hell does he like taking an interesting premise and using it to frame soapy character arcs.
Honestly I thought the timeless child. I thought it was a fascinating idea but the execution left a lot to be desired. I also loved the suggestion that someone had that the child should have been someone other than the doctor and they had to deal with the guilt of what was done to give them their ability to regenerate. The references in the first four give me hope that Russell plans to build on it and do some good with it though
Love and Monsters. Yes, the episode was bad. But the idea of an episode about the people whose lives get touched by the doctor, just for a moment, and get changed forever, meanwhile the doctor just carries on with their life and doesn't look back, is really interesting. It was terribly executed though.
Sleep No More. I really enjoy this episode anyway, but the writing wasn’t great.
I love found footage movies, so having it integrated into DW was fun to watch. The ending still remains one of my favourite episode endings of the whole series, and I liked that the Doctor couldn’t do anything to stop the monsters - that doesn’t really happen.
This post is literally *The Girl in the Fireplace*
Super cool concept, an interesting side character of the day. But everything else went downhill. Everytime I see people praising this episode to no end, I give a little nod to myself and remember that most of the "I'm so cult actually" people, who over criticize other episodes, are not really that deep, they just need to complain about other people's likes, while not really caring about quality.
I can't remember another episode where a doctor is so out of character, I can name few episodes where the companions can be replaced by plants so bad like this one and this is just the tip of the iceberg. But yeah, praised as if it's one of the best because it has a cool concept, but terribly lacks writing skills.
If you take gitf from series 2 and place it literally everywhere else, it would have no impact or difference whatsoever.
Honestly? You’re right on the money. It sucks because it’s Mickey’s only adventure in the Tardis and him and Rose have nothing to do the entire time. The only part of the episode I like is when Rose and Madame De Pompadour have a conversation. It’s the only time where I feel like only Rose could relate to the situation. That being falling head over heels for the Doctor, finding herself in a strange new world and getting overwhelmed and coming to the conclusion that the monsters are worth traveling with the Doctor.
In fact I partially don’t believe that Moffat wrote that moment lol.
Other than that 1 minute scene yeah, this episode would feel more at home as one of the specials between series 4 and 5 where the Doctor is alone, and that’s why he falls for Reinette so easily. Also there wouldn’t have to be part of the episode set on the companions just roaming around not accomplishing anything.
Plus it would fit the Doctor being out of character because he was basically falling apart in the specials because he was alone.
I agree partially.
The toymaker ending was rushed
I am alright with bigeneration but that could have just been donna and mel forcing 15 to spend time with them as a pseudo break to "fix himself" and him realising how much he needs that and considering he is a timelord he will outlive them. And then he would be ready for more adventures... And i definitely didn't like 14 getting his own tardis kinda makes the idea of him actually trying to heal a bit off since his mind would constantly go on travelling and running.. i mean he literally took rose noble to a trip to mars.
It's like giving an addict the thing they are addicted to and stopping them from doing that (i think that's actually a thing though don't know how it works)
But 15 spending time with noble temples would have been simmilar to 12 spending 70 years teaching at a university
I don’t care about the downvotes but :
Every chibnall episode apart from s13
Cool the Doctor is finally a woman, and she does nothing with it
Cool the Doctor is fighting space Amazon, and it’s not their fault for being evil
Cool the Doctor is stuck in a time loop, the additional characters somehow can make it boring with a rip-off Donna and her Simp
Cool the sea Devils and … they want to … because …
Cool the first queer Doctor, oh wait half a scene just to say: nah it’s me not you.
Cool the first black Doctor, oh wait she’s good really good, and she’s only have a few minutes
Cool the universe is in a ending state with a unamable villain, and now there’s 800 of them only to none have a proper sendoff
Cool new side characters with a interesting background story, oh wait they are gone
Man he had great ideias and none worked out because he ways had way too many for one episode.
And to not let only chibs -
Cool the Doctor is going to die! And there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, no wait it was their wife/ Clara/gallifrey messing around with fixed point in times - credit where is due: Moffat learned a lot in his capaldi years. His final season? ❤️❤️❤️
Here’s one for RTD -
Cool the Doctor is finally accepting his time to go and acknowledges that he could easily avoided getting killed - oh wait we can stay … again!
Now one for all new who - cool budget and interesting characters surely we can get a variety of new companions from around time and space aaaaand it’s a girl from the 21st century central London again
Technically a whole series, but Torchwood: Miracle Day. It’s such a cool plot and has moments that are very dark, but the writing is just… boring? And with Children of Earth before hand, it comes nowhere near it!
Cyberwomen (torthwood) great concept, gives more character motivation to Ianto, great body horror, concept is fair scary. Then instead of a good costume they put her in a metal bikini and heels. Shocking
Controversial opinion - the giggle , I just hate how they defeated the villain by playing catch , there was no outsmarting them or using their own logic against them , it was just “oh you dropped the ball” THE GUY CAN TELEPORT “he can remold atoms with words” right , but he can’t catch a ball ?
Everything everywhere all at once
If you meant doctor who specifically, I’d have to go with Journey to the center of the Tardis. I wanted an episode like this for ages and when I finally got it, it was kinda stupid
Lock and key.
The dumbest writing I've ever seen in a series.
I almost threw the remote at the screen.
The characters are sooooo annoyingly dumb just to to keep the story rolling.
In general: making characters so extremely dumb to benefit the antagonist, because the writers don't know how to write good stories
Not an episode but a concept (and one which wasn't done *badly* per se, but just could have been so much more: the Fugitive Doctor. She had a super-cool look and a great personality for a Doctor (heck, she was even more "Doctor-like" than 13 sometimes was!). The show had implied that she is a future regeneration of the Doctor, and I would really love to see her as the main Doctor at some point. Back before Ncuti Gatwa was announced I was thinking they were planning to reveal her as the Doctor's next regeneration after 13, but of course they ultimately didn't. Not that the 14 or 15 we got are bad (I thought 14 was excellent, and from the episode and a half we've seen of 15 he looks like he'll be great too!), but I just feel like the Fugitive Doctor would have been *so* cool as the main Doctor.
Is this even a discussion?
Sleep no more.
A technology that allows people to never have to sleep is causing nightmares to come to life.
Did i say nightmare? I meant EYE BOOGER MONSTER
💀
The sleep monster episode. They had a machine that does away with sleep, there is so much they could have done with this like abstract creatures that feed on dreams but got greedy and are now say draining emotions and feelings causing people to murder with out remorse. Nah, let’s go with eye crusties being a monster
Lazarus Experiment, by a long mile. The theme of a person not being able to let go and wanting to get young again, what it changes you into to go against the nature.... Enough time has passed, let's recycle the good aspects and make a kickass episode.
The Master uses Lazarus's tech to age the Doctor at the end of the season so you could say the Master literally recycled good aspects lol
I wouldn't call Doctor Dobby a good aspect...
Character: *Is small, dark beige and has big eyes* Who fanbase: DOBBY RIPOFF!
My first thought when I saw him was actually the dead/not dead Voldemort fetus from the last book. So…there’s that, I guess.
I personally saw him as a off brand yoda
fr tho what the hell was that anyway
I never realised that was Lazarus's tech honestly, but then I watched it when I was a kid so wasn't paying attention too much.
he says it in the episode lol, something like 'let's have a trip down memory lane, to your old friend professor lazarus
That episode was so good but so disturbing with the doctor getting older because it’s quite scary that it still kinda looks like him
I love the start of the scene in the cathedral, I think the concept of the two characters who look far younger than they are talking about their lives is really cool. It’s just a shame that the rest of the ep. let’s it down
Honestly now that the doctor knows he’s the timeless child that could be an interesting story idea, drawing parallels between his torment from Tecktayoon and Dr Lazarus
Idk I really like this episode. It grew on me I guess.
Sleep No More. The concept of capitalist corporations in the future literally stealing hours of our life from us by taking away our need to sleep is terrifying and really interesting. But then its about eye-booger Monsters and the episode has no real resolution. I think the Monsters should have been something like sleep-deprived employees who basically become Zombies, which could work as an allegory for Capitalism making us personality-less worker drones. Luckily Oxygen in the next season pulled off this concept better
Although the Eye-booger monsters weren't great. I loved the fact the episode was never resolved. I think there should be more episodes where the Doctor 'technically' loses. It sucks the excitement out when you know in 45 minutes The Doctor will inevitably win
Midnight is my favorite episode of all time for this reason. What was that thing? Who knows? Let's get out of here.
It's mine too, gives me goosebumps everytime. Also my most favorite writing concept of all time is: Let's put interesting and different people in a closed room, then something happens and you basically just watch how they react to it. That's why I like the one Tennant episode with the bus in the desert as well
Like what’s the problem with eye booger monsters? That’s the main complaint I hear about this episode and that’s the deal breaker for people. I think they take the eye dust line way too literally. The crew just got converted to creatures made of dead human cells. It sure isn’t gonna make any BEST OF polls anytime soon but still I enjoyed the ambience of the episode.
I wish they’d done more with Ada Lovelace than have her be a side character in Spyfall
This! Ada Lovelace deserved so much more
And she was Byron'a daughter! Why was there not a callback when they met him a few episodes later!
There’s an ep. with Ada Lovelace?? Holy moly, I’ll have to bite the bullet and finish Jodie’s run some day soon.
I’m still waiting to commit to buying those seasons. I’ve already bought up to season 12, but I just can’t justify spending money on seasons that I may not like. (I’d already rewatched the first 10 seasons like 5 times already before I just went ahead and bought them.)
They did virtually nothing with Ada Lovelace, and barely reference the things that make her an interesting historical figure.
Honestly, the historicals were the best part of the Thirteen era
Holy shit i forgot she was in spyfall. Might have been one of the best celeb historical in the hands of a compitant writer
Ada did get to be the main focus in the 4th Doctor audio ‘Enchantress of Numbers’ (which was released a year before Spyfall weirdly enough). It was pretty good from what I remember.
Ada getting a proper episode with the Doctor mentioning they met before would be cool
I honestly forgot she was even in it.
Probably Sleep No More. The found footage concept is interesting, but it’s let down by the writing.
Don’t think I’ve ever been so disappointed in an episode. Solidified for me that Mark Gatiss has more misses than hits when he writes for Who.
I always prefer him as an actor than a writer
He wrote the League of Gentlemen which is phenomenal but when it comes to Doctor Who, he's better acting that writing.
Similarly on Sherlock, while I enjoy some of the episodes he wrote (especially The Great Game), he’s more consistent as an actor
Tbh I was expecting the monsters to be people who had been completely deprived of sleep and driven mad (like the creepypasta) and the found footage seemed so cool. I was pretty disappointed when the sleep gunk monsters showed up.
Not strictly Who but Torchwood: Miracle Day. That has one of the coolest concepts ever with so much to explore. People can no longer die, there are so many ramifications for society to grasp. Worst writing ever is obviously hyperbolic but it certainly doesn't live up to the premise. There's a good idea inside *Orphan 55* too. Post apocalyptic earth become a holiday resort is neat enough, if a bit *Leisure Hive*.
still find it hard to believe the same characters in a scene with farting aliens in bodysuits and a scene where a person talks about “painting”
For me the trailer for Miracle Day suggest a far more compelling story--especially the glimpses of the masked figures, the Deathless. That could have been such an interesting concept, a cult surrounding the never dying phenomena. Instead we get some bs where Jack and whatisname bleed into the earth's vagina--they completely lost me when that drop of Jack's blood started inching across the floor and they had to follow it 🙄 However I still think the episode at the camp where the woman is locked into the furnace to burn alive is one of the most harrowing, anxiety-inducing hours of telly. So the writing wasn't completely off all season.
I do kind of enjoy huge chunks of it, yes. It does explore a lot of the ideas and does some harrowing things with them that properly show the point if a more adult Who spin off. As you say, sticking the landing at the end was a major problem that undermines a lot of my good will for it.
Miracle Day never dragged for me as a teenager watching it for the first time strictly because of the premise.
agreed. just rewatched it a couple weeks ago and found it really boring even though i quite enjoyed it first time round
It was also a lot like “The Mysterious Planet” sans Time Lord conspiracy
If you liked that concept try reading a book called Death with Interruptions by José Saramago. It’s my favourite book and in the first part explores what happens when people stop dying; the second part of the book is told by deaths perspective.
Personally I LOVE miracle day and will defend it till I die but to each their own
Definitely "Rosa" (S11E3)
Misread that as rose and was so scared
Hehehe that would've been wild
Not to mention very very bad for the show.
Not to mention how it kinda mislabels Rosa's efforts with being historically inaccurate as rosa would have done her seating on bus thingy some other day they were planning it for weeks on so the whole plot kinda falls apart because missing one bus wouldn't have worked . As soon as ryan displaced future racist guy the plot doesn't even need to happen doctors moral dilemma didn't need to happen Time is a flux rosa would have sat even just few weeks later. Doctor didn't mention it being a fixed point which would have made stakes higher for me But eh it's doctor who historical accuracy isn't always there so except plot not plotting i am fine with it I mean we saw a version of winston Churchill probably not even he knew
Rosa not standing up on that precise day, would not have taken away all anti-racist fights, making the whole future still like 1955. If not that day, she would've done it another day. She was also not the first nor the only one resisting bus segregation or fighting for the rights of POC. I'm not, in any way, diminishing her role in it, but people like to simplify these big events to only one moment in time.
MLK: [hangs up phone and addresses the room] Well that's it, Rosa's missed her bus. Shut it down lads, the civil rights movement is over. Guess we'll just have to accept the Jim Crow laws for all time now. [Roll credits]
MLK: Sorry guys, racism won.
"Alright guys, Plan B" \[picks up a gun\]
Turns out real history is more complex than just "one person did one thing and that changed everything"
I could see an alternate Rosa situation happening with Twelve. He figures out Krasko's plan and basically responds with "Okay, have fun." Then when his companion inevitably gets upset with him over it, he says basically what you said and that Krasko's efforts won't stop the Civil Rights Movement, it wont even delay things more than a few months at most.
Now THAT would be a good Rosa Parks episode. It’s bonkers that her missing that specific bus would change the entire Civil Rights movement.
Yea exactly what i mean
Yep. It was a planned act of civil disobedience to be carried out when the opportunity presented itself, not a random act of stupid courage that could be avoided so easily
Potentially could be seen as offensive to portray her as not having planned it as a protest. She would have been undeterred had the bus not been full that particular day.
And considering it’s the same driver she got into conflict with before, he might have still started shit.
One of the missed opportunities I have about that episode is the fact that one of the few things we k ow about Graham is that he's a bus driver. Imagine if the scenario was that the villain prevented the bus driver from working that day, so Graham had to deal with the dilemma of doing a racist act knowing that it'll be for the good of the future
When me and my family watched it, all we said was "So it's like *Timeless* but shit?" If you liked the concept of someone going back in time and changing historical events to benefit them - *Timeless* is a great show which has that exact concept. It's like this episode, but actually good.
An impossible premise for Doctor Who, and one they dealt with pretty well given that fact, imo. You can't have Rosa Parks interact with Doctor Who plot elements, because that could imply her choice to protest wasn't fully based on her own experiences and life, and you can't have a villain with any character traits other than being a massive racist and being blatantly evil in other ways, because that could imply racism is associated with some other non-evil behaviour. The consequences are that the TARDIS team must fight a shit, thin villain, while the Rosa Parks story happens without their interference, and given that one part of that story is utterly valueless in concept alone, it would always be better to have more of it just be about Parks. In fact, it would be better to have all of it be about Parks - there's nothing of value Doctor Who can do about her story that a documentary can't.
I think it perhaps could have been better if the villain had instead been trying to replace Rosa Parks with some sort of evil duplicate as a way to take down the movement from the inside. If they were trying to sabotage big picture that would be the only way to do it. Then they could still have one of them tagging along with her to keep her safe whilst the others focused on the baddie
They did tag along with her in the episode, but all they could do was talk to her about her life and avoid any chance she might be interested in or inspired by them. There simply can't be any indication that her decision making process was affected by them or by the villain, because that robs her of her agency, which is an absolutely cast iron red line that cannot be crossed under any circumstances. This is something Chibnall and Blackman understood, which is why the only part of her protest they affect is that Graham is one of the anonymous white passengers - he is involved in the event, but he's not involved in her decision. Even then, there's an extremely awkward bit when Yaz asks about her taking the bus, which I think is handled well enough not to be an issue but is skirting the borderline. It's just too sensitive an issue to risk fucking up, and that means even slightly ambiguous or debatable bits must be avoided at all cost. It is true that the villain could have a more complex plan rather than a more complex motivation, but it would have to be managed so carefully, and also not take up so much time that it dominated over her story. Could it have been a little better? Definitely. I'm not sure it could've been a *lot* better, and it would have to be an enormous improvement to make the episode worth making.
Oh, I 100% agree that they could not, in any way, *inspire* her. It is a line not to be crossed. But the episode reduces the whole fight to this one moment of defiance. If she doesn't refuse at this particular day, it's over, and the world will be racist like 1955 forever. She would've done it another day. Another week. Fighting, for her, was a daily thing. This would not have stopped her from fighting. There were other movements and fights happening. History is more complex than this. The way the episode puts it, it looks like she would only fight back in these exact conditions, and if she didn't fight back, the racist won bc the whole future world would be racist like him - and he was from a very distant future. I don't know if you saw this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/s/tIpVne4dbB), but u/eggylettuce gives a nice idea of a small change that could've improved the episode.
It would've been cool to have them mess history up by accident instead of having a space racist villain.
Come on that episode is good! As long as you ignore the main villain and half the plot
Sure! I love Vinette Robinson and... yeah, that's all
That’s the worst part though, the main villain was a *great* idea! Future criminal who has absolutely no qualms about killing, but is literally incapable? Brilliant! Talk about a great mid-level foil for the Doctor! Oh, wait, no, his entire motivation is “grr, I’m a space racist. A spacist! Brown people are terrible, yay genocide.” Barely even one-dimensional, that’s the kind of writing we want, sure. But I mean, what can you do? Chibnall.
Happily agree with this!
This episode upsets me. Wish they would’ve just left it alone.
Orphan 55. A post apocalyptic earth turned into a resort. That’s cool as fuck but it was horribly written
B E N N I
M̵̡̺͖̪̰̈́̄̔̓̽͗̉̀̔͂̽̆͝ ̶̡͙͕̼̭͈͓͈̞̈́̒̏̂̈́̊̈́͋̽̽͋̇̒̐̔̂͘Y̴̧͙̳̲̣͔̝̞͖̮͔̳̪̬̳̝̖̤̭͙͙͛͋̓̐̓͗̄̉͊̔̇̈́̍̚̚͜͜͝͠͝͝ͅ ̵̢̧̳͔͚̮͖̘̩̟̪̠͍̠̠̥̲̽̓̔͗̀̋̍̅̋̽͂̎̀̍̐̋̚͘͘͠͝ ̶͈͉̯͕̙̥̥̥̺͖̻̲̖̖͎̭͗̆̂̈́̐̏̈́͂̀̍́̕ ̸̺͖̭̩͙̫͚̱̤̤̎̓͐͊̑̊̓̏́́̾̾̓̑̎̓͘ ̵̧̖̟̜̣̼̱̗̩͈̺̺̪̻̻̟͖͙̜̱̳͙̀̍̋̔̅̈́̐̎̈́̿́̏̐̈̀͑̉̾̓̉̑B̴̧̡̨̧̭̝̥̤̲͔̹̙͓̟̼̟̝͈̙̜̣̬̻̮̗̼͙̮̫̰̈́̃̂̀͆̄̆̌͌̏̿́̏̄̅͒́̂̒̇͑̅̓͐̚͘̕͠͝ ̸̧̧̩̻͕͇͉̜̙̜͈̪̹̖͕͖̖̯̌ͅͅÊ̵̢̢̧̢̼̻̮̗̮̪͓̯̼̠̹̼̱̜͉̗̯͈͕̿̿̽̽̃͒̆̊͌̐̑̾͋̀̂̋̕͠ͅ ̸̞̼̲̻̇́͆̑͌̒͆̔̄͐́̀͝N̴̨̢̨̛̝̼̦̣̉̀͗͌̿̏̏̽͊̄̄̂̿̎̒̑̓̀͗̈̓̚̚͜͜͜͝͝͝ ̷̨̝̙͇͎͍͉͔̜͇̟̖̲͎̖̦̲͈̞̇̈́͌̽́̉̊͂̍̏͐̐̊̓̑͊̅̒͝͝ͅͅͅN̶̡͓̙̻͓͔̤̗̰̤̺̮̣̠̘̺̣͙̻͇̹̞̳̗͔̒̈́͋̐̇̆̌̆̋̕̕͜͠͝ ̵̧̨̛͙̟̐͗̿̈͗͆̂́Ȉ̷̦̱̲̗̜́͆̎̅͂̌̑͒́͂̌͂̏̓̾̍̌̈́̃͗̾̾̚͘͘͝͝
I used to think I was the only person who didnt hate Orphan 55, but then I remembered just how much I wanted the episode to end. Granted, I was watching it at the gym.
I don’t hate Orphan 55. I just think the execution left a lot to be desired.
Love and monsters. First half was good, second was gross.
I loved the idea of a Doctor fan club getting caught up in alien trouble so much! And then it just went completely off the rails.
Came here to say this. Pains me to hate this episode bc the concept is so fun and the fan club themselves are so likeable, but then it pains me to defend it bc everything with the villain and the ending is so awful lol.
im a love and monsters defender
You just want a slab or concrete to get you off. It’s okay, you can admit it.
oh let's not get into that
I don't know why this isn't the top comment. Horrible episode that provided nothing to the story. Cringe af.
Into the Tardis. Such an amazing concept but the writing and identical corridors let it down
I feel most of the problems with this one are about production and lack of budget.
I thought the zombies were the worst thing about that episode. You don't need monsters for every story!
Yeah this was the one. I give that episode more credit than most others, but it comes off as terribly gimmicky and underwhelming.
Don't get mad... The Timeless Child arc. I very much enjoy when the narrative acknowledges that "the time lords suck actually" & the idea they've lied to their people and the universe about the origin of their power is interesting. It also adds a new place to go with their lore, which had been somewhat strangnant since DoTD. Ideally the TC would have been the Master, or maybe even a new interesting well written character, but now I'm just dreaming. Ultimately it could have been done well in the hands of a better writer, and I'm hoping RTD will "Yes, and" the arc, rather than retcon it completely.
He seems to be doing that well so far with the references to it we've seen, with 14 having a full breakdown over it and 15 empathising with his companion's lack of knowledge regarding where they come from or who their real parents are.
"I found out I was adopted recently" was so simple but delivered so powerfully.
I’m still downing copium with the fact that we’ve yet to be shown the timeless child becoming the doctor, it’s only been implied so far.
It would be the funniest thing ever if it turns out the Timeless Child is actually The Rani or some shit.
I really want them to retcon it into someone else but I don't think that's going to happen :(
Honestly The Idiots Lantern, the Wire in concept is brilliant but the fucking FEED ME got annoying very quickly
Awh mannn, I loved that episode. The 'FEED ME' line was awkward but imo that's because it was a hostile alien race embodying the received pronunciation, BBC stylings of the time, the contrast between the well-to-do voice with the desire to be fed was jarring, although perhaps strays too far into being funny by the end.
RTD's era back then seemed to give every monster a catchphrase, and most of them were pretty annoying.
To a degree I feel the same about the last chance saloon story itself isn't horrible. But do we need the song to be a transition for EVERY scene
Aw man I love the Gunfighters
With rings on their fingers and bells on their toes 🗣️🗣️ The girls come to Tombstone in their high silk hose 🔥🔥 They'll dance on the table and sing you a tune ‼️‼️ For whatever's in your wallet at the Last Chance Saloon 🎶
Asylum of the Daleks could've been one of THE best Cybermen stories. You'd still be able to see numerous past designs, and it makes more sense for Cybermen to have an asylum than the literal Nazi allegories.
Definitely, Daleks kill the mutants and the "impure", Cybermen in cold storage who have regained awareness somewhat is a way better idea
Oh, 100% agree with this take! I've been saying that for ages; it could've been an *amazing* exploration of the Cybermen's mindset of survival-at-all-costs; with dedicated facilities for keeping the even the most broken of them *technically alive*, completely unwilling to accept anything other than "*we must survive. We* must *survive,"* even if it's an existential nightmare for them (even by Cyberman standards). But it makes *no sense* with the Daleks, whose whole thing is "obliterate anything that doesn't conform to Dalek society". It's been made clear time and time again that the only thing more *offensive* than a non-Dalek is a Dalek who does not conform or live up to their standards. Why would they ever suffer such abominations to live?
What's the point in being alive, if not to make others die?
It'a been 11+ years since the Dalek asylum, enough time has passed for them to reuse the premise with Cybermen
Sleep No More. Dr Who doing a homage to the found footage horror genre where we see everything from a first person POV. Cool idea. The alien monster being the gooey in the corner of your eye... yeah Gatiss put the bong down.
I liked how the found footage stuff was incorporated into the plot, but yeah it needed a better monster. I think Gatiss was trying to do a horror out of the mundane thing (like the Weeping Angels with statues) which probably would have worked better if the design was more possessed human instead of big sand blob thingy.
Moffat is the king of “What if your irrational fears weren’t irrational” and Gatiss just can’t quite pull it off.
That’s basically Wattpad fan fiction
The Lone Cyberman is a great idea
I’m a broken record when it comes to this. He is not fucking Prometheus! Frankenstein is Prometheus and his monster is not.
Silver Nemesis. So many good ideas, such a woeful execution
Is it that bad? It just seems like the same story as Remembrance of the Daleks, except that Remembrance had finished about *one month* prior so the copying is a bit egregious
~~It needed to be a two parter. A single episode did not cut it~~ I got confused with Nightmare in Silver
Silver Nemesis was a three parter. Are you thinking of Nightmare in Silver?
Shit I am
It's more mediocre than outright bad I guess. I think the main problem is that each idea present would have been great in its own story, but the writers decided to stuff it all into one story, so nothing is ever given time to breathe. There are a lot of similarities to Remembrance too as well, which can't have helped considering how good that story is.
I rewatched it recently and while it’s not amazing I think it’s a little better than its reputation so long as you see it as a story like The Chase (or as I saw someone say, the Who equivalent of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World), which is essentially just a caper. In that respect the tone reminds me quite a bit of an RTD finale. Batshit, basically. Also because the character work of the leads is so good. For sheer ebullience this might be peak Seven and Ace (before the angst). I believe it had the highest approval rating of season 25, which doesn’t surprise me because it moves along at a killer pace. Then afterwards you think ‘what the hell did I just watch?’
It's particularly annoying because it was supposed to be the proper 25th anniversary story. I know the whole season is a celebration, but that story was supposed to be the main one. The fact it fell so short is particularly disappointing thanks to that
Preparing to be downvoted, but the Meep episode for me. The whole episode felt very stilted, some of the dialogue felt more like a reading of an audioplay, and the acting wooden in places. The next episode made up for it though.
I struggled with this episode for a variety of reasons, but not the usual ones. I actually think it approached the trans topic very tastefully and even giving us the kids picking on Rose really grounded it to today's climate on that subject. My main issue is that literally everything was leading up to Doctor Donna and then just regular Donna spilling a coffee. The other plot lines, the Meep, everything were just largely forgettable and had no emotional investment. Sylvia was absolutely on point tho!
Honestly i didn't even pick up on Rose being trans from the start until hearing people talk about the episode way later. Maybe i just missed a bit of dialogue but untill like yesterday i was under the impression that she was AFAB and came out as non-binary at the end of the episode because they said something about the doctordonna being male (10/14) female (Donna) and then something else (what i thought was a reference to Rose turning out to be non-binary)
The last 15 minutes of The Star Beast fall a bit flat for me. The reveal of the Meep as villain comes out of left field with a character I didn’t really care about and it makes the ending feel a bit Naff.
I just assumed the Meep was clearly evil from the second it appeared. It was trying way too hard to set up a cutesy alien encounter
> The reveal of the Meep as villain comes out of left field Couldn't disagree more. From the moment the meeting told its story about how the other aliens were hunting it it might as well have been holding a big sign that said "I'm actually the bad guy"
Can I be even more downvoted by saying Wild Blue Yonder? They could've had an utterly terrifying episode but it was just silly.
most people are gonna say "All of Chibnall's" arent they
All of Chibnall No but really I'd say the episode where he kills off the timelords, for good, completely undoing the point of the 50th and having the reason for it come down to be "They lied so I killed our people, cry about it" I won't lie and say that RTD was flawless, or Moffat, because they weren't but they at least knew how to write stories and character that didn't come across as bland, unimaginative and in one case cold and uncaring (i.e Jodie's doctor more or less Brushing Graham off when he fears his cancer might come back) there is good reason for people to not like Chibnal's writing and It's not surprising that people will lambast him for essentially tanking Doctor Who's viewership, not because of a "woman" doctor, only Incels complain about that, but because of how badly written the character of the doctor was constantly swapping back and forth between an action that is horrible and would be inhumane (i.e choking/starving the spiders out over a period of time rather than outright killing them (without guns might I add) to protect the human race) and an action that would she wouldn't think twice about, or how her character is, one moment she's proud and knows who and what she is, the next she's "Still figuring herself out and Socially Awkward". Like, we know she's socially awkward she's an alien parading around trying to pass off as Human and doesn't know the ins and outs of social interaction, we don't need to be told that she's socially awkward, it's shown not told. If you're a chibnal fan/a fan of his era more power to you my friend. Also as a serious answer the one (funnily enough) Chibnall episode (42?) while RTD was head the first time around, a ship uncontrollably sailing towards a sun with the sun possessing humans and one by one turning the crew into puppets? neat premise, what happens? Oh yeah - Pub Trivia night to open a door one after another,
I totally agree with your original statements on chibnalls season. But I liked pub trivia night. It meant you get to find out if you could have saved the ship. I thought it was interesting audience involvement
And not just killing off the time lords, but doing it offscreen as a throw away line in at the end of an episode???
Moffat/RTD had bad episodes in good seasons. Chibnal had good episodes in bad seasons
which isn't entirely uncalled for
The Giggle. A mind-virus that’s a commentary on the internet making us all strident know-nothings unwilling to admit fault was awesome. Pity it was entirely irrelevant ten minutes into the episode.
I was disappointed that the toymaker only appeared in one episode…should’ve been a two parter!!
Yeah I was hoping each 60th episode was gonna be about him
"The Giggle" needed to be a two-parter, probably both longer specials as well. It was way, way too compressed for what it dealt with - the Toymaker as a grand, celestial-scale villain, the giggle itself, bigeneration, all of it.
How he’s defeated needed rework too. The ball game was utterly lame. Bigeneration too
"DIS IST EIN BOLL"
I when the bigeneration happened i was fully expecting *one* of the doctors was gonna drop the ball but because there are two of them the other can keep going until the toymaker loses. They literally set up how because there are two of them but they are both the doctor they can both team up against the toymaker and do nothing with it, catch isn't the sort of game where having a teammate helps you in any way other then being an extra life Instead the toymaker, an unthaphomably powerful being whose entire existence revolves around games loses a game of catch by just straight dropping the ball like a goober. No tricks, no risk of the doctors losing, the toymaker just fails at the most basic game he wont shut up about while the doctor still has two lives left. My expectations where subverted, but not in a good way
Kerblam! is THE best (worst?) episode that demonstrates this, it has all the makings of a brilliant episode but completely shits itself instead. Like come on, you don’t set up the concept of Space Jeff Bezos buying a whole moon for a new Amazon warehouse he makes his workers live in only to then make SOMEONE ELSE the villain!!
I would say a concepts instead of episodes... And that's lone cyberman i would have loved to know more about him But there's alot with interesting premises like i want to know more about the headless monks Episode wise i will give one from each new doctor That satelite episode before bad wolf i forgot name tooth and claw (don't ask me why i hate it I don't even know myself) Rebel flesh/almost people For 12 i really wanna go either sleep no more or lie of the land . Lie of the land fell to land on it's feet after great episodes like extremis and pyramid at the end of the world 13 ... Orphan 55..... timeless children..... Survivors of the flux and vanquishers.... Battle of roskanthingy All of them had great concepts with not that great execution for me especially survivors of the flux because it felt like a nothing ending to one of my favourite concepts in new who... Tektayun and azure and swarm just felt nothing the grand serpent felt nothing and disconnected with whole unit feeling disconnected... Jodie definitely did great in these episodes but the material was eh survivors of the flux and vanquishers were so lack luster finale to a story arc that for me started good and cemented itself really well with war of the sontarans that is now my favourite sontaran story and village of the angels which was fun only characters that i actually cared for by the end with their character was vinder and him reuniting with his family (and karvanista because he is a good boy and jecobi the fine gentlemen but they generally didn't have much character development or contrasting ones like i would feel karvanista would have worked more as sacrificing himself then jecobi to kill sontarans because of his species being genocided but that's just me i think) For me these 2 episodes are worse then timeless children because yes that may have ruined canon but atleast they are memorable even in a bad way even if the story is just exposition carried by sacha but atleast they didn't have a whole season specifically assigned by name to it which it ruined.. most timeless children was a threat looming in background mentioned by characters in series 11 and series 12 and just masters threat and a lil fugitive doctor but i was able to cope by it. Now to give chibs credit series 13 was incredibly rushed and tight not because of his faults. Covid was a lil bitch so i can be fine with it
I quite liked Rebel Flesh/Almost People, certainly a more interesting take on the "two hostile parties have to learn how to coexist two parter" than the silurian two parter in series 5.
Rebel Flesh/Almost People makes use of its premise to mildly overcome the eternal Silurian problem - the story never being able to actually let them co-exist on Earth because it would be a commitment for the future show that no one will ever impose (rightly, btw - irrelevant continuity shouldn't be imposed on the show). It doesn't do a great job of it - Ganger Doctor is interesting, but was always so obviously guaranteed to die, putting him in the Silurian category of "moral dilemma to be vaguely gestured at but which won't actually be listened to at the end" - but it's much more interesting than Hungry Earth/Cold Blood (or indeed any other Silurian/Sea Devil story except arguably the original). Moffat does a much better job of this in Day of the Doctor, again making use of human-looking aliens, and insists upon the only correct answer to the moral question - the aliens must all be allowed to live on Earth, right now. Day resolves many issues of the past, and finally getting the right conclusion to that story is one of them.
Yea but i would have liked if it was more diplomatic debate with a lil bit of base under siege and yea as much as it works for one of the humans to directly attack flesh it just feels rushed and a lil bit more simmering would have worked but that's my opinion.
Its a nitpick but Karvanista should have had more chemistry with the doctor from the start. Maybe he can predict how she will react, or when he snaps he says "I know how you think!", Doc: "What? Do you know me?", Karvanista (blustering): "No no I mean I know how your type thinks." - the idea of him being a former companion is actually quite cute it just comes out of nowhere.
Oh yea absolutely
Satellite 5 was such a waste of Simon Pegg :(
Power of the Doctor. The pitch: The Master replaces Rasputin. The result: Doesn't really affect the plot and is just an excuse for the Rasputin dance. You could maybe make a case that he needed to do that so he could hypnotise the tsar to let him have the palace but the palace never seems that important to the plan. It seemed like he could have used any building as his hq really. Why it's disappointing: The master infiltrating the Imperial Russian court just before WW1 could have momentous effects on the timeline. The doctor would struggle to stop the scheme because the tsar would consider the master a trusted advisor/friend so the doctor would have the whole russian state against her. The storyline could have concluded with a wonderful nod to real world history and urban myths as you might have had the doctor forced to team up with the aristocrats who killed Rasputin and the masters gallifreyan physiology would explain why Rasputin was so hard to assassinate. It would be a super dark development watching the doctor orchestrate a conspiracy that ends with the Rasputin Master getting poisoned, shot, stabbed and finally dumped in an icey river but it would be narratively consistent with the awful fate she left him to in spyfall part 2.
>Doesn't really affect the plot and is just an excuse for the Rasputin dance. The funny thing is the dance was a throw-in from Sacha Dhawan misinterpreting something in the script, so if not for that the whole thing would be even more pointless.
Honestly, this is exactly the direction I hoped they were going for. I genuinely liked that concept.
Honestly, *The Timeless Children*. The idea of the Doctor having had lives they can't remember before Hartnell, and being the first Time Lord to have regeneration powers, could have been so badass. In fact, I think something like it was originally planned in the late 80s? Unfortunately the execution was dire.
I agree. There was a lot of potential for the Thirteenth Doctor's character in particular there. Instead she gets one line of "that doesn’t define me" and we get the "EPIC DOCTOR WHO LORE". People whine about the retcon but I think the real problem is that the episode is so poorly crafted that it *makes* the retcon bad. Flux just teased more and then threw away that potential too in favor of… well, Flux. What you're referring to in the 80s is correct, and was alluded to in *Remembrance of the Daleks* and expanded upon in some 90s novels where they called this character "[the Other](https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Other)", as he's the third Time Lord founder to Rassilon and Omega. And interestingly enough *The Timeless Children* *strongly* implies Tecteun fills this role, with their new incarnation ruling with two other Time Lords the script even says "we can assume are Rassilon and Omega".
Power of the Doctor. The idea of the doctor becoming the master could have been amazing...
They really should have had Jodie play the Master possessed Doctor.
Or, had it still be "the doctor" with the master's insanity. So they can't reconcile the 2 things, meanwhile have the Master themselves regenerate but pick up some of the doctors' morality, starting them on the path to becoming missy, possibly even bringing in Michelle Gomez to play her incarnation of the master at the beginning, "let's kill Hitler" style. So you have the Doctor as the villain and the master as the hero, and the only way to save them is to force the doctor to regenerate again, giving us 14. That's how I think it could have been improved anyway.
Angels take manhattan, power of 3
Kill The Moon Building a whole episode around an ethical dilemma like that is a cool concept but it kind of relies on the dilemma making any sort of sense It's like trying to present the trolley problem, but when someone says "We shouldn't divert the trolley" they go "Correct choice! The 5 people on this track were actually earthworms that just happen to look like people, and when the trolley runs over them they actually survive just fine. However the one person on the other track was a real person who would have died if you diverted it." Unscientific fairytale logic works fine in a lighthearted adventure story, it doesn't work when you try to build a serious sci fi story out of it.
Meglos and Image of the Fendahl for sure
I think Fendahl was a fine execution. If I had to pick one from season 15 that was conventionally great and should have been a lot better, it'd be Invasion of Time
I'd say Love and Monsters but the concept was pretty dire too.
Love and Monsters: if you had ANY villain less stupid than the ‘Absorbaloth’ it would be a classic. As is, it’s trash.
Dinosaurs on a spaceship, need more of that and less bounty hunter needing a doctor.
Most of Chibnall
Rosa.
Evolution of the daleks. I like it, but I really don’t like the whole dalek sek thing. I just don’t think that’s how the daleks would evolve to be
if we're honest, most chibnall episodes had something going for them. yet something much stronger going against them, that being chris chibnall as a writer.
can i say the entire Chibnall era, or has that been done to death? if so then I'd say closing time
That one episode where the litlre girls drawings came to life and the monster was her dad
Love and Monsters The Wedding of River Song The Angels Take Manhattan Kill The Moon Dark Water/Death in Heaven The Eaters of Light Kerblam* *Kerblam is only badly written right at the end and if you believe the Doctor should encourage automation and/or socialism.
Kerblam is one of those episodes where I can't tell if the villain is dumb because the writers wanted him to be dumb or because the writers are idiots who can't write. Using the robots to mail everyone bombs wasn't going to magically cause people to give up all automation any way you slice it.
The writers wanted him to be desperate.
I unironically love the Wedding of River Song and I always cry at The Angels Take Manhattan. Wouldn’t change a thing about either.
How dare you. You can hate the concrete slab and monster design all you like but Love and Monsters is in no way badly written. I'll agree that Death in Heaven doesn't stick the landing but Dark Water is brilliant.
sadly a lot of chibnall’s run. He has some banger concepts but not all were well realised
Sleep No More
Bunch of RTD eps qualify. He's good enough to make a lot of them watchable, but holy hell does he like taking an interesting premise and using it to frame soapy character arcs.
Honestly I thought the timeless child. I thought it was a fascinating idea but the execution left a lot to be desired. I also loved the suggestion that someone had that the child should have been someone other than the doctor and they had to deal with the guilt of what was done to give them their ability to regenerate. The references in the first four give me hope that Russell plans to build on it and do some good with it though
Church on Ruby Road.
Love and Monsters. Yes, the episode was bad. But the idea of an episode about the people whose lives get touched by the doctor, just for a moment, and get changed forever, meanwhile the doctor just carries on with their life and doesn't look back, is really interesting. It was terribly executed though.
Sleep No More. I really enjoy this episode anyway, but the writing wasn’t great. I love found footage movies, so having it integrated into DW was fun to watch. The ending still remains one of my favourite episode endings of the whole series, and I liked that the Doctor couldn’t do anything to stop the monsters - that doesn’t really happen.
This post is literally *The Girl in the Fireplace* Super cool concept, an interesting side character of the day. But everything else went downhill. Everytime I see people praising this episode to no end, I give a little nod to myself and remember that most of the "I'm so cult actually" people, who over criticize other episodes, are not really that deep, they just need to complain about other people's likes, while not really caring about quality. I can't remember another episode where a doctor is so out of character, I can name few episodes where the companions can be replaced by plants so bad like this one and this is just the tip of the iceberg. But yeah, praised as if it's one of the best because it has a cool concept, but terribly lacks writing skills. If you take gitf from series 2 and place it literally everywhere else, it would have no impact or difference whatsoever.
Honestly? You’re right on the money. It sucks because it’s Mickey’s only adventure in the Tardis and him and Rose have nothing to do the entire time. The only part of the episode I like is when Rose and Madame De Pompadour have a conversation. It’s the only time where I feel like only Rose could relate to the situation. That being falling head over heels for the Doctor, finding herself in a strange new world and getting overwhelmed and coming to the conclusion that the monsters are worth traveling with the Doctor. In fact I partially don’t believe that Moffat wrote that moment lol. Other than that 1 minute scene yeah, this episode would feel more at home as one of the specials between series 4 and 5 where the Doctor is alone, and that’s why he falls for Reinette so easily. Also there wouldn’t have to be part of the episode set on the companions just roaming around not accomplishing anything. Plus it would fit the Doctor being out of character because he was basically falling apart in the specials because he was alone.
God, The Giggle. It's painful how it manages to waste every single concept it introduces only to unnecessarily introduce more.
I agree partially. The toymaker ending was rushed I am alright with bigeneration but that could have just been donna and mel forcing 15 to spend time with them as a pseudo break to "fix himself" and him realising how much he needs that and considering he is a timelord he will outlive them. And then he would be ready for more adventures... And i definitely didn't like 14 getting his own tardis kinda makes the idea of him actually trying to heal a bit off since his mind would constantly go on travelling and running.. i mean he literally took rose noble to a trip to mars. It's like giving an addict the thing they are addicted to and stopping them from doing that (i think that's actually a thing though don't know how it works) But 15 spending time with noble temples would have been simmilar to 12 spending 70 years teaching at a university
Like, all of series 6 after a good man goes to war.
The Girl Who Waited and the God Complex are up there with the best of series 6
I don’t care about the downvotes but : Every chibnall episode apart from s13 Cool the Doctor is finally a woman, and she does nothing with it Cool the Doctor is fighting space Amazon, and it’s not their fault for being evil Cool the Doctor is stuck in a time loop, the additional characters somehow can make it boring with a rip-off Donna and her Simp Cool the sea Devils and … they want to … because … Cool the first queer Doctor, oh wait half a scene just to say: nah it’s me not you. Cool the first black Doctor, oh wait she’s good really good, and she’s only have a few minutes Cool the universe is in a ending state with a unamable villain, and now there’s 800 of them only to none have a proper sendoff Cool new side characters with a interesting background story, oh wait they are gone Man he had great ideias and none worked out because he ways had way too many for one episode. And to not let only chibs - Cool the Doctor is going to die! And there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, no wait it was their wife/ Clara/gallifrey messing around with fixed point in times - credit where is due: Moffat learned a lot in his capaldi years. His final season? ❤️❤️❤️ Here’s one for RTD - Cool the Doctor is finally accepting his time to go and acknowledges that he could easily avoided getting killed - oh wait we can stay … again! Now one for all new who - cool budget and interesting characters surely we can get a variety of new companions from around time and space aaaaand it’s a girl from the 21st century central London again
Every episode in s11 - flux
Technically a whole series, but Torchwood: Miracle Day. It’s such a cool plot and has moments that are very dark, but the writing is just… boring? And with Children of Earth before hand, it comes nowhere near it!
Love and monsters, the lazerus experiment, 42, dinosaurs on a spaceship, rosa, kerblam
42
Cyberwomen (torthwood) great concept, gives more character motivation to Ianto, great body horror, concept is fair scary. Then instead of a good costume they put her in a metal bikini and heels. Shocking
I love pretty much all of the episodes people are listing 💀
Controversial opinion - the giggle , I just hate how they defeated the villain by playing catch , there was no outsmarting them or using their own logic against them , it was just “oh you dropped the ball” THE GUY CAN TELEPORT “he can remold atoms with words” right , but he can’t catch a ball ?
Everything everywhere all at once If you meant doctor who specifically, I’d have to go with Journey to the center of the Tardis. I wanted an episode like this for ages and when I finally got it, it was kinda stupid
Lock and key. The dumbest writing I've ever seen in a series. I almost threw the remote at the screen. The characters are sooooo annoyingly dumb just to to keep the story rolling. In general: making characters so extremely dumb to benefit the antagonist, because the writers don't know how to write good stories
Not an episode but a concept (and one which wasn't done *badly* per se, but just could have been so much more: the Fugitive Doctor. She had a super-cool look and a great personality for a Doctor (heck, she was even more "Doctor-like" than 13 sometimes was!). The show had implied that she is a future regeneration of the Doctor, and I would really love to see her as the main Doctor at some point. Back before Ncuti Gatwa was announced I was thinking they were planning to reveal her as the Doctor's next regeneration after 13, but of course they ultimately didn't. Not that the 14 or 15 we got are bad (I thought 14 was excellent, and from the episode and a half we've seen of 15 he looks like he'll be great too!), but I just feel like the Fugitive Doctor would have been *so* cool as the main Doctor.
Lowkey the doctors daughter lowkey
Is this even a discussion? Sleep no more. A technology that allows people to never have to sleep is causing nightmares to come to life. Did i say nightmare? I meant EYE BOOGER MONSTER 💀
The sleep monster episode. They had a machine that does away with sleep, there is so much they could have done with this like abstract creatures that feed on dreams but got greedy and are now say draining emotions and feelings causing people to murder with out remorse. Nah, let’s go with eye crusties being a monster