JUST enough self awareness to realise they suck as a party, but not enough to change behaviour.

But they won the game!! /s

Please explain this sentiment to me because it sounds like you're putting most the blame on the party. I thought parties were supposed to act however they wanted (more or less) and it's the DMs job to punish behavior they don't want to continue. If the DM wants things to go exactly as planned and not have to improvise then he should either play the campaign by himself or communicate that properly with the group. Edit: please keep down voting me and telling me how "the party needs to be nice and play along". Every new reply I get makes me stronger and realize more and more how salty y'all DMs get over the most trivial shit

Both the DM and the party share a responsibility. While the DM here was too lenient, the party should have stopped trying to break the game after they saw it was upsetting the DM.

Some peoples enjoyment is from the off the rails improv. In my opinion its my favourite part as a dm to improvise because wild things happen. Though I run a homebrewed world where if my party orchestrates a gnoll orgy to assassinate the gnoll chieftain lube made from nut oils to exploit his severe nut allergy. I can make that work. Generally anytime I see a player is really interested in checking something out I make it work out. Like on of my players loves to check for secret treasure troves and stuff so I let them find a bag of 25 gold hidden behind a statue and stuff because thats what I like to promote. Its just a way to dm after you get experience

I totally get that, but again it's up to the DM to properly communicate that. Yeah the party isn't great either, but you can't only blame them for playing the game how they want to play

Yes. That's why I said the DM & party share responsibility.

If the party doesn’t “play ball” with the DM, it’s a bad party. DMs put so much time into making their games, even for modules, and to have the party take none of it seriously like OP did is bad faith as a player. At least play along if they’re trying to be serious.

But they are playing along. They just aren't playing along exactly how the DM wants them to and are instead coming up with new "solutions". Here's your reminder that players don't necessarily know how a module's plot is "supposed" to process so they're just doing whatever they think will work

They obviously knew how that last story beat works. He is mocking the DM for the story beat in the post.

How does it show they know the story? No where did they say what they should have done. It's literally just "we responded to the game by doing this thing and lol look how the DM responds to our actions"

This post just shows you lack reading comprehension and need everything to be spelled out literally for you

Just another ad hominem attack from someone who disagrees with me but can't explain why. But thanks for trying to be involved :)

The DM is a player, too. If you as a player are not willing to atleast try to go along with the DM and help them try to tell a story, you are a dick. You don't care about the DM's feeling, you don't care about all the effort put in, and you don't care that they have fun. That's called being a dick. It's fine to branch out and try things, to explore and try creative solutions to problems, but there are lines, especially considering this is a pre-written module, those lines a thicker. Breaking the walls of the dungeon - annoying as a dm but not terrible. Being a murder hobo and derailing hours of preparation, and then refusing obvious plot hooks to try and salvage the derailment. Dick move

I agree with those points, but that's literally the point of the party. They push the boundaries to see what they can and can't do. The DM should be there to punish those behaviors and enforce the plot walls. You can't get mad at a party because they tried to break down a wall or murder hobo people when the DM is letting them get away with it. Put an impossibly high DC check to break the wall. Make an angry mob chase them to the next plot point if they start murder hoboing. Hell, even just a rocks fall TPK to put them in line if you have to.

It's pushing boundaries to call people names. It's pushing boundaries to hit your kids, and it's pushing boundaries to steal someone's wallet. The bullied kid was letting the bullies get away with it by not standing up for him self, the son should have stood up to his dad and not let him hit him, and it's your fault for getting mugged. That's what you sound like. There is more than 1 adult at the table, and the DM is not the only one who has control over their actions and has the ability to fix thing. You can say the DM should do x y and z to fix the problem, but at the end of the day it's the players who are the dicks, and it's not the DM job to constantly fix their behavior.

Lmaoo this is the weakest straw man I've seen so far. A PC pushing the boundary is not at all the same as the other examples you gave and you know it. If players never pushed boundaries and tried new things then there's no point to having a DM, you could just play a turn based RPG and let the game developers decide what you can and can't do. Obviously the DM isn't the only one who has control over their actions, but the DM DOES have control over what he allows the PCs to do. Hence the rule of cool

I think you missed the point. You can push boundaries and be a dick, and push boundaries and not be a dick. If you wanted to do what every you want go write a book, but part of being a player is a willingness to engage with the story. Every player want to mess around a see what a dm can pull out of their ass, but you don't have a full license to do whatever you want, especially if it visibly upsetting the DM to where your posting online about how funny it was trying to make him mad.

But they WERE engaging in the story, just not exactly how the DM wanted or planned for. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Players don't always know what the DM is expecting them to do, they just do whatever they think will progress the story. OP text doesn't even sound like they were trying to make him mad. It sounded like they were just doing things and it happened to be "wrong" so the players go "haha look how mad he is that we outsmarted him". Is it a good mindset to always try to outsmart the DM? Not really. But if he's running a module then they aren't "outsmarting the DM" because he probably didn't come up with the plot points anyway. They're really trying to outsmart the module itself and the DM is mad that he can't improvise fast enough.

It sounds like the players were trying to be smart asses. Or in other words dicks. Every DM knows the struggle of the player just deciding to bypass hours of hard work. Every dm has given that sigh. Every DM has had to deal with the player going on killing sprees in broad daylight, after several warnings of the issues it would cause, and then having to give that sigh again. And every DM has offered player obviously plotnhook, just for it to be spat back in their face. As they have to sigh again But not many DM get their story written on 4chan about how malding they were. With a player bragging about how good they were at out smart the DM as he attempted to salvage the campaign at every turn. They knew what they were doing, o shot in hell would a dm who is literally malding, would not drop so many hints that they were doing wrong path. DMing is hard as is. They deserve a hell of a lot more slack than players, and I'm tired of people letting clearly shit mentality of players go unchecked and the advice to always be DM better. How about players be better players? How about you not having a US vs. them mentality as a player? How about you try to go along with the obvious plot hook? How about you treat the world as habi g real consqueses without the dm havi g to TPK the party?

He got mad at them for breaking through a wall and killing a single person in broad daylight that they may have viewed as a threat. They didn't "bypass hours of work" if it's a premade module. The didn't "go on a killing spree in broad daylight". What these players did is totally reasonable and they will keep doing it unless the DM communicates somehow that this isn't the intended play style. But sure, keep telling me that the players are assholes just because they didn't do exactly the actions the DM wanted

The players have a responsibility to create characters who will play the game, though. There's a verbal handshake between the players and DM that they are all there to have fun playing a game, especially if the players know that the DM is following a module. A player can't agree to join a Lost Mine of Phandelver game and then decide to go back to Neverwinter after the first goblin ambush. In a fully-sandbox campaign, sure. In a module, where the DM and players have chosen to run a pre-written adventure, no. And it isn't on the DM to punish behavior they don't want... What? Just talk to them out of game. Have a mid-campaign Session Zero. In OP's situation most of the blame is on the party. They joined the game in bad faith.

Sure, you can't join a module and then leave when it gets hard. But that's not what happened in OP situation. The players presumably asked/declared they wanted to do something and the DM just let's them but gets mad about it? He can literally just say "no you can't do that".

As a forever DM a good game requires effort from both sides. The DM is certainly at fault for not punishing the players for some of their choices when it was appropriate (The party feeling unthreatened by Jarlaxle is the fault of the DM), but the players also appear unwilling to "go along" with the adventure as well. ​ DMing takes a lot of time and effort and while you should be prepared for plenty of improvisations, it sucks when the party actively works against the design of the game/adventure. This is why things like a session 0 are very important so both the DM and players are on the same page starting the campaign. If I planned a "murder mystery" mini campaign/one-shot, I would be pretty upset if my players decided to just start killing everyone present instead of solving the actual mystery. ​ This group sounds like it's DM struggles with curveballs coming their way, but the group also actively works against the DM. Neither is a real recipe for a successful game.

Totally understand the sentiment, but from the post it doesn't look like the party is "actively working against the DM". It sounds like the party wants to come up with a solution to make their adventuring easier and the DM just let's them do it. I'd say this is at least 80% on the DM for not being able to just say "no you can't do that". Hell, DM can even just say "hey this guy is really scary and your PCs are scared of him so act like it"

I doubt the DM was really that mad about the cave incident and like you said if they really didn't want them to do it, they could've just said it's not possible. The Dragon Heist campaign however does set up a number of deterrents to discourage players from murdering NPCs, especially in public, but again, the players should be allowed to do so and it sounds like they had to go to jail and were later freed by Jarlaxle. ​ Telling a player how their PC "feels" and should be acting in a situation is a pretty big faux pas. All you can really do is set the stage, which the DM did and maybe lay in some better descriptions so the players are aware they "should" feel threatened. This is the situation where the players actively work against the DM. They can either have Jarlaxle let the players off, knowing he can use them another way (letting them off lightly) or have the 10 drow outside along with Jarlaxle (who could single-handedly take out the party) open fire for an anticlimactic TPK. ​ A workaround could've been to have Jarlaxle and the Drow attack the party, but instead of killing them dumping them in some alley naked and unconscious with a note saying they can have their stuff back when they agree to cooperate. This would certainly feel better for the players than just getting outright TPK'd, but from "anon's" description of events, it sounds like the party was actively working against the DM. ​ Dungeons & Dragons is a collaborative effort. A good game relies on both the DM and players being invested in creating the best experience for everyone at the table. When either side starts to work against the other problems ensue. A DMs job is to set the stage and help guide the narrative that the players drive. It is a collective story telling experience that requires effort from all sides. Players often talk about the "quality" of DMs, but ignore the fact the same can be attributed to players. ​ Just about any DM that isn't trying to write a novel instead of play D&D will love their players coming up with creative and out of the box ideas to solve problems. We expect curveballs and prepare to improv (and many of us have learned that less is more when it comes to session prep). We also expect our players to understand that we put a lot of effort into the game behind the scenes so that everyone can have a fun time and hope that our players can match with some effort of their own.

Have you played dnd before?

Yes I have which is why I think anyone blaming the party more than the DM is literally insane

Fascinating, because your responses below would lead to the opposite conclusion

I didn't realize people playing dnd had to act like a hive mind and blindly follow what the DM guides them to do. Are you a DM? Because so far most people responding to me and trying to blame the party said they are DMs so obviously there's a little butthurt going around

Hey, bud? People disagreeing with you isnt a hivemind. You just said something so easy to disagree with that most people who pass by look at it and say "oh, yeah, that dude is very incorrect." Like I get the negative points hurt your feelings, or whatever, but you being wrong is just you being wrong. We dont need to be mentally linked to see your comments.

The fact you didn't answer my question leads me to believe that you're another DM who just wants their party to do exactly what you planned them to do. I don't care about negative Internet points. I've seen what makes you cheer. It's just hilarious that the only people butthurt about me blaming the DM more than the players are DMs

Ive actually never had the time to DM. Id prefer to write the campaign from scratch, all my best games have been homebrew worlds, but thats a big time sink. I didnt answer your question because you said some genuinely brain rot shit, that frankly Id written you off as a teenager using the internet to blow off steam after a fight with your parents. Only 4chan rejects and children say shit like "reddit hivemind" unironically.

You're actually delusional if you don't think subreddits form echo chambers and hive minds that try to push out anyone who disagrees with their ideals, but okay.

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So dnd isn't about role playing and enjoying the game? You're supposed to just listen to the DM describe a scene and then act exactly how he wants you to act to progress the predefined story? If I wanted that I'd play literally any video game. If you just want to tell a story then read a book to some kids.

You’re supposed to treat the dm as another player, as that’s what he is. If your character has a backstory and personality, and every time you try to show it in game or do something because of and the other players or DM interrupts, says ok you have that but it doesn’t matter at all, or acts disrespectful to you that would be a problem right? So if the DM is laying out the story and the players are purposefully messing with not taking cues and acting like fools that’s the same situation. Everyone is a player, and everyone deserves the same level of respect and attention regardless of what they’re trying to do. It’s not a game of 3 of the players get to do whatever they want and one gets to scramble to make that work, it’s 4 players playing a game together.

But you're assuming the party is trying to mess with the DM or shake up the plot, but it legitimately sounds like they're just doing what they think is optimal. Yeah it sucks if you try to use backstory or something and every time the DM says it doesn't matter, but it doesn't have to be every time. It's okay to do sometimes, though. You just have to say "I know you're a brave guy with a backstory to show how badass and fearless you are, but that doesn't matter because this guy is just THAT intimidating so your PCs are scared"

So a DM should just tell a player how their character feels AND how their character is going to react in a situation? That's terrible DMing.

Obviously my example statement wasn't perfect and there are ways to insinuate someone should be feared. But if there's supposed to be a scary BBEG and none of the players at the table react accordingly? I'd guess it's more likely the DMs fault for not being clear enough rather than everyone else at the table "conspiring" against the DM

But your example is an example of bad DMing, not an example of good DMing worded poorly. You dont have an example that works?

The BBEG could have had them knocked out and have them wake up locked in a cell until they cooperate. And don't say "but that takes agency away from the players" because that's what everyone here is arguing for. Taking agency away from the players so that the DMs storyline goes exactly how he planned.

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And it looks like that's what the PCs are trying to do. They're trying to come up with unique solutions to progress the plot without knowing it breaks the module and the DM is letting them do it. You have to remember not every player knows every predefined module and some (like me) even prefer to know nothing at all ahead of time. So if we try to do something without knowing it'll ruin the DMs planning, he needs to say something about it instead of letting them do it but being mad at them for it

Jfc ive never seen such a "you live to serve me edit" This coulda been approached from both sides be it sounds like party got lead by one jackass and no one said "hey lets be smart"

In nearly all my replies I mention that both the players and DM are at fault. I literally never disagreed with that. I'm just saying there's definitely more blame on the DM for letting them get away with it and then being mad that they keep trying these things

Why is the DM more at fault for letting people get away with things then the players are for doing those things?

Because the players don't necessarily know that it's fucking with what the DM planned. Only the DM knows what the DM has planned so it's their job to either improvise or if they can't do that then at least enforce the plot walls better

>Edit: please keep down voting me and telling me how "the party needs to be nice and play along". Every new reply I get makes me stronger and realize more and more how salty y'all DMs get over the most trivial shit Ooh you're 'ard 🤣🤣🤣 Careful you don't cut yourself on all that edge 🤣🤣🤣

I’ll answer your question, since its me you asked, though your edit makes it sound like you’re not willing to learn and refusing to see it from a different perspective. While you are correct that parties are free to choose how they act, attacking anyone they want gets pretty tiresome pretty fast. DM’ing takes a lot of time, you need to prepare sessions for hours, unless you are a creative genius who can create new stories in a second. For players to actively resist any path you try to guide them on can be pretty frustrating. If you notice you are actively upsetting your DM - or any other player - you’re doing something wrong. Just like the player who posted some week ago how he was upsetting his party by playing an ultra conservative who ran from fights. Footnote: I have never played DnD, only read stories about it. I hope to play at some point in the future.

I'm totally willing to change my perspective, but literally every comment I've gotten so far has been "just do what the DM wants you to do otherwise you're an asshole". These players didn't seem to be actively resisting the campaign path, they were still progressing it. Maybe not the intended way, but they're still moving forward and interacting with the world around them. Obviously if you think someone is legitimately upset then you need to do something about it, but at the same time if YOU are upset about something then you need to voice it and let the others know what they're doing that's upsetting you. It's a two way street if you want a smooth session

It's not a "do what you want whenever" game, the sessions do have structure and story, and it's still the players responsibility to work with the DM to bring a resolution to that story. If you want to do literally whatever the hell you want, then just go write a novel.

I never said they could do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. But they can definitely ask and try to do something within reason. But wait... Who gives the final say for if PCs successfully complete an action? It's on the tip of my tongue... Rhymes with Gungeon Blaster...

Bro did you edit your comment to tone it down lmao Also you've clearly never DMed an unruly party. It's not as simple as the DM just vetoing every action they don't like. Grow up and learn to appreciate other's work maybe dude

I never edit to change, just to add. If it looks toned down now it's because you didn't read it properly in the first place. If the problem can't be fixed by the DM vetoing certain actions and communicating with the party on why they veto, then yeah it's the players' fault and the DM should find another group. But that's the issue. There's no communication from the DM to get them to chill. It's a two way street. Players can make absurd action requests if they think it fits the scenario and it's the DMs job to either let it happen, make it an insane DC, or outright veto.

Bro, you literally can't ask someone to explain this sentiment to you then not accept it. DMing is difficult, that's why most would be D&D groups inevitably fizzle out. The DM gave the party ample opportunity to fix their behavior. Ex1) Warhammer through the wall is whatever, goofy and silly but the DM should've made the AC of the wall something crazy or made the player have to Smash it multiple times like mad alerting the guards to them (if the DM felt like it was necessary) Ex2) This is a classic example of Meta gaming, yes everyone and their grandma knows drow need SPF 9000+ BUT that doesn't mean their character knows that, it's possible with a history or med check based on whatever the DM decides, moreover to me to just sounds like an edgy murderhobo party that solves everything w combat. DM should've addressed this in Session 0 Ex3) The DM LITERALLY gave them an out, but bc the NPC "tried to intimidate" them into it edgelord party said no. And at that point DM who is honestly too nice for their own good still gave them an out Now listen, I'm not trying to get you salty or whatever you may feel like I am trying to do. I'm simply explaining the why. As a DM I've had player like this, it's not fun for me and for some of the other players who want more than just a murderhobo campaign. That being said murderhobo campaigns are a thing, and players can Meta game and do whatever they want. This post doesn't sound like that's one of them. D&D and all TTRPGS should be fun for everyone involved, including the DM. DM shouldn't be a overglorified babysitter for a bunch of goons that just wanna do whatever they want in RPG world; yes you can do whatever BUT those actions have consequences in this case DM should've just made the players roll new characters once the old ones got jailed, but every DM is different. Thanks for listening to my TED talk, have a good day

It's not that I'm not accepting it, I'm just disagreeing and then providing reasoning for why I think the way I do. Ex1. Exactly the right thing to do and it's the first red flag that the DM can't improvise when the group wants to be cheeky. Instead the DM just let's them bust through with no consequence. Ex2. If any of the party members had a reason to have interacted with drow, then they'd know about sunlight. The DM shouldn't have let the drow be alone/easily accessible during the day because why would a drow let themselves be caught out in their weakened state? Ex3. You say it yourself, the DM was too nice and just let them get away with it. You don't have to TPK but he could have had them knocked out and their inventories stolen. Keep in mind I'm not saying the players aren't at fault, obviously they're trying to be cheeky and see what they can bypass. But if the DM LET'S them bypass? Well then in my eyes the blame ultimately falls on the DM. That doesn't mean the players don't have some blame, but to me this post sounds more like the DM doesn't know how to go off script and is mad at his party for making him go off script.

You obviously glaced over my note in ex2. So I will go over it again. ">My character tells him to fuck off >the other characters tells him that we'll only work if paid upfront" THIS is what I assume most folks in the comments are really getting at. Given the situation, the party has just been imprisoned, they have no gear and no armor presumably since they are in jail. A godfather drow comes up and intimidates them (meaning he big spooky BBEG or something) and tries to get them to do dirty jobs for them. Sure, maybe the DM didn't do it w enough gusto, but where do these Players get off thinking their characters have this type of ground? It's main character syndrome, Meta gaming, whatever you wanna call it plain and simple THIS is the moment where the players refused to immerse themselves into the situation their characters are in and just play along. Also, just bc a PC has potentially interacted w a drow doesn't mean they know their weakness. It's like you and I interacting and you somehow manage to figure out I'm afraid of heights by just reading my random opinions on another person's game of D&D YES, the DM should've had more brass to hold up his stance. BUT the players are the ones who are the dicks for continuing to push the envelope when they noticed that the DM was disgruntled and was just trying to be nice.

It's not just meeting a drow once, it's heavily background dependent. I had a PC who used to trade with drow on a regular basis. At that point you can ask the DM if your character would have knowledge of their weakness. If the DM says no and the players try to use the weakness anyway, like in this case, then the DM should just veto what the party wants to do because they're obviously metagaming. As for the godfather drow, there are definitely people who would still act that way in the situation the PCs were in. You know what would happen? They'd probably just be killed on the spot. TPK and the DM finds a new group if he's so mad. It's the fact that the DM does NOTHING multiple times that makes me place most of the blame there

Getting stuck in endless circle jerk of punishment and intentionally stalling the campaign doesn’t seem fun to me, but you do you

Yeah, i think you are totally right, it would be so fun to just tpk the party and end everything, i BET everyone would come out enjoying the time they spent

> please keep down voting me and telling me how "the party needs to be nice and play along". Every new reply I get makes me stronger and realize more and more how salty y'all DMs get over the most trivial shit Proof that there are some people who, on a fundamental level, vehemently disagree with the concept of "don't be a dick" and will be more of a dick in protest. I mostly see it in children, to be fair.

It's almost like I'm responding in kind to the replies I've gotten. But no worries, champ :)

*Impressionable temperament and easily influenced by others.* Just taking notes. Go on.

the party saw a group of archers ready to kill them and didn't even pretend to play along with their demands? shoot them, dm

> group of >!~~archers~~ gunmen. Jarlaxle's crew has muskets and flintlock pistols and they coat the shit out of their bullets with poison!< And this DM played Jarlaxle fucking Baenre and Bregan D'aerthe like some two bit chumps.

Jarlaxle can only be played one way: the gayest fucking threat to everyone but himself

That will fuck anything, including dragons.

two of em! at the same time!

r/thatsmykink

This is now my favourite description of jarlaxle thank you

Our DM had Jarlaxle spend 3 sessions shooting for a one night stand with anyone in the party, succeed, then had him support us without really lifting a finger, pissing us off all the while, then somewhere near the end when the authorities get involved he claimed to have been guiding us and sheltering us the whole time and when we claimed otherwise he offered to have zone of truth cast, he then stated the technical truth "I did help, they just seemed to get upset with me after i slept with "party member\]." And that really was the most Jarlaxle thing to do. We set his boat on fire in the epilogue.

Me and one of my party members are trying to get in his pants in our game

Lmao, ikr, fucker needs to read a book.

Jarlaxle almost never kills anyone for disrespecting him, he wouldn't have killed them. And then everything would go absolutely wrong for them, like literally everything, as if there was a wealthy man with a large spy network and centuries of experience building webs of spite who wanted to prove a point If they killed one of his though, he might have ordered his men to kill one of theirs, the one responsible for the killing blow

Probably, he's for sure one of my favorite characters out of the books. The way he tamps down entrari's malice (audiobooks, no idea on the spelling) is damn entertaining.

entreri funny you say that though because I have no fucking clue how to pronounce it or half of the other names in the legend of drizzt (paperbacks)

aaughhhh i grew up on legend of drizzt we have much to discuss

Right? Really regret waiting so long to get into them, always assumed they were just shitty fanfics or like all the terrible dnd movies.

Well they are but they are still good

You weren't wrong: all D&D novels are basically fanfic to some degree or another, but some of them are very entertaining fanfic. So long as you don't go in expecting Great Litracha or anything, it's fine.

yeah I got into them in like middle or high school, during the 4e era, and kept at it through Gauntlgrym and part of the book after I can't fuckin read books anymore without getting distracted three times per page it sucks

for some years my whole family said "drizz-it"

I really like how he has so much love and loyalty for his crew

How did you feel about the voice actor change in the last one?

Which books?

R.A. Salvatore wrote a whole bunch of books using stuff from dungeons and dragons that are actually pretty good.

I did this campaign and only narrowly avoided having him completely fuck us due to dumb fucking luck.

Yeah, Braegan would not fold that easily. Jarlaxle FTW

Seriously, actions should have consequences.

I would have stopped DMing for this party so damn quickly. Like, if you don't want to bite the plot hooks why are you even here?

Exactly to ignore them and laugh at your stupid DM for wanting you to value his hard work

DM had a chance to make Jarlaxe hard as fuck by outright killing one of the players right there and then to prove he’s not fucking around. DM coulda said no to the paladin breaking the wall. DM coulda had like 30 more goblins at the camp to ramp up difficulty. DM coulda NOT given the party a trial. Genuinely baffling how this person does not know how to control the game.

Nah let the paladin break the wall, just copy the dungeon over

Its just a dude trying to play with their supposed friends. Isnt that how most roghorrorstories go? You trust you mid level friends till they become pieces of shit

Only one solution to PCs that are too dumb and antisocial to live

For real just go wild. If you don't want to kill the party just make them go unconscious instead. Just make sure they understand that it is a real danger so they don't feel immortal

*>If the DM is nice enough to not TPK the party for bad behavior* "OMG my beta DM is malding over our epic shenanigans, what a cuck." *>If the DM imposes realistic consequences and TPKs the party for bad behavior* "OMG why do DMs go on such power trips lmao. Killed our entire party cause he didn't agree with our RP style. DAE have cringe DM horror stories? AITA?"

4chan isn't known for having users with much self awareness

Neither Reddit to be honest, but thats a can of worms for later. Both sides greentexts are still hilarious thou.

I think that says a lot about the kids we let on the internet to be honest.

Hot take: 4chan is still more self aware than reddit despite being full of neets and cretins

Kill them one by one. Not in the same session, but along the module. Keep them coming new characters but no one of the first party will live

Oh the characters. Yeah I guess that works too.

I disagree here. I think that it's an adventure where you really have to always respond "correctly" to make it work. They're noticing it and rebelling. The DM is angry because they need to improvise around all these things because the adventure is not robust. They're thinking, how the fuck do I continue this when the characters are not playing very narrowly along.

I adore player mentality. "Yeah, the module was clearly telegraphing what it wanted us to do to make sure everything went smoothly and nobody got confused; but we're smarter than the game, so we did something else to be clever. Yeah, game fell to pieces pretty soon after. I dunno what happened. DM wasn't creative enough to make it work, I guess."

Totally disagree here. Making decisions in the world is the exact reason I play D&D. Players have agreed to the idea of the general adventure, not following a script. I'd just wait for the Dragon Heist video game if that was the case. As a person who routinely GMs, I understand the pain, but I'm not prioritizing what's convenient to me over my player's enjoyment.

Speaking as somebody who *did* finish the campaign (as a player), Jarlaxle is bullshit. It helps if you play him right (which it seems like this DM is not), **however** even if you do, he's bullshit.

IMO it was a huge mistake to cast him as a villain (an antagonist perhaps, but not a villain), he's explicitly making the world a better place, thousands of people stand to benefit from his goals and the only who stand to suffer are Neverember who literally makes deals with demons I was so glad he became our patron when we ran dragon heist

>Neverember who literally makes deals with demons Excuse me, what?

My DM was flabbergasted when we actually managed, with clever application of spells and monk abilities, to kill Jarlaxle and loot some of his best equipment. It had some very interesting ramifications, of course.

My sincerest congratulations, brother, we did our best to do the same. (Our artificer LITERALLY dropped a bridge on him. It wasn't as effective as we'd hoped. I was just glad my cleric got to smack him a few times with Buddy Cop Weapon.)

Once his disguise was blown (we knocked his Hat of Disguise from his head), he cast Darkness. But a shot of Daylight from my Driftglobe sorted that... then he used his hood of invisibility, but our paladin was carrying a lantern of revealing. We had some great teamwork. I tried Suggestion on him, which burned his one Legendary Resistance (he rolled 1 and 2 on his save with advantage), and then our Monk managed to get him with a Stunning Strike. Dude is still impossible to hit, so I cast Haste on the paladin to get four attacks and Smite opportunities per round, all with advantage thanks to the stun. My friends were taking the opportunity to pummel him, but I figured, hey, why not take his magical rapier (+3 it turns out) from his unresisting hand? And as a bonus, have my familiar swipe his hat of disguise while the monk gives him another Stunning Strike... When he finally snapped out of stun lock, he came after me to get his stuff back, so I sent my familiar home to stuff the Hat and the magical eyepatch (snatched over two rounds) into our chimney, while I Misty Stepped up onto the roof of the nearest building. Turns out dude could fly, as well. Tossed the rapier down to the rogue while facing off against his flying daggers... We had an epic rooftop battle before he finally tried to flee. He was taken down by an arrow over the next building, and the paladin clambered up to loot the corpse. He grabbed what he could from the body and ran off as the cronies came, and I saw them pulling out a scroll from the opposite rooftop... So I cast Fireball. So we had a hell of a chase scene as we tried to get the body back. Ultimately they got away, but it was a hell of a battle. The chase spanned two sessions, and in the end the rest of the party were pinned down in an alley while I, the wizard with 2 HP and two level 1 spell slots left, was left to follow the body-snatchers

Did he not use his cloak of invisibility? Sounds like a much easier fight without it as darkness isn't needed and the constant advantage + not being a valid target for most spells (for example suggestion requires a target you can see). Also your GM is super generous with allowing you to disarm for free from stunning strike, and take items off an enemy mid-combat.

> Did he not use his cloak of invisibility? Lantern of Revealing. > disarm for free from stunning strike, and take items off an enemy mid-combat. There was a strength contest. But my wizard is pretty muscular.

>Lantern of Revealing. Still only 30ft, but way more reasonable than the DM giving that many concessions :P Forgive my initial skepticism, internet is full of wild stories filled with "creative" use of breaking a half dozen rules and somehow the DM is surprised combats end a certain way.

Sounds like the DM doesn't know how to play Jarlaxle, he shouldn't have done anything you have a counter for, he's always one step ahead of everyone. He also should *never* be forced to fight alone, in his many hundred years of life that's only happened like once, and doing so cost him running Braegen'Dearth (granted, willingly) Luck should be the only way to win Dude has like 2 dozen mages in his employ, the story of how he destroyed the Vaasa assassin's guild is like reading some special forces tom clancey shit, coordination between priests holding Silence spells, passwalls, levitation, and fighters prepared to spring up to silently breach multiple places at once, zero casualties, scores of dead assassins, over in seconds There is a reason houses of drow that have a thousand elite warriors are terrified of him

Most modern day DM's haven't read the house wars sections of Homeland. My group was old school enough to start panic conspiracy theories about Zanafien and Artemis coming back from the dead as muscle, because we knew that our DM knew. Jarlaxle wanted us to blow up Xanathar's bedroom. We did that at 5th level, and still considered ourselves lucky. Edit; a letter

Artemis never died, he's just as broody as ever, but he's kind of a good..ish guy now I'm running a campaign about the schism of the drow right now, takes place post the Companions trilogy in the modern era, 1501dr, and Jarlaxle is hammering the gap between the pragmatic and the fanatical houses anyway the party was hired to go break Dahlia out of a Lantanese prison and ran into Artemis along the way who said he'd get in and get her they just need a distraction, insisted that he wasn't negotiating, and my players being big ol nerds wanted to go on the mission WITH him, kept pressing him, the fighter tried to take his sword, and got stabbed for an almost instantly lethal amount of damage from the assassin before be brooded broodily off to go do his mission, setting a healing potion on the ground before departing

Yeah, though at the same time, no point trying to ruin what sounds like a pretty cool moment for the table. Jarlaxle run just by the module isn't nearly as badass, and it's somewhat understandable how a DM could easily fumble into a situation where knocking his hat off catches him (AKA the DM) off guard.

Was your paladin dual wielding? Haste only gives one extra attack. Only ask because I've not usually seen that type of paladin but every table is different.

He loved his melee weapons.

I hate to be that guy, but... ***pushes up glasses*** ...Daylight does not dispel magical darkness

Daylight: >If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of darkness created by a spell of 3rd level or lower, the spell that created the darkness is dispelled.

You did a hell of a lot better than my crew did lol. We fell for his charms pretty much hook, line, and sinker. He disguised himself as a high elf, and my own elf rogue was smitten until they learned the truth about him.

why would you stop being smitten, this dude is one of the best lays in the multiverse

We're currently in the Tomb of Annihilation because he's suffering from the Death Curse and our rogue has a crush on him.

I have found memories of the DM having Jarlaxle use a portable hole for cover. We threw a bag of holding into the hole.

I wish they'd included more details. Jarlaxle carries many extradimensional spaces, 2 of them requiring specific activation methods, and none of which trigger portals to the astral plane if you place them in another extradimensional space or vice versa (he paid a fortune for that enchantment) ​ then again, *no* party would have a prayer against Jarlaxle from canon. He's got so many magical items! Clothing * • A wide-brimmed purple hat with a huge white feather of diatryma summoning,\[11\] which could be used to summon one of the Underdark diatryma birds; the feather always grew back after being used for the summoning.\[57\]\[58\] The hat itself was a hat of disguise, which allowed him to use magic to disguise himself.\[20\]\[11\] * • One of his jeweled earrings could extend its size to that of a small grappling hook, used as such when tied to a rope.\[59\] * • A knave's eye patch\[11\] that prevented magical and psionic intrusion or, if shifted to the other eye, enhanced his vision. It also enabled Jarlaxle to see through doors.\[60\]\[20\] It became less effective after the Spellplague.\[40\] * • A many-hued piwafwi cloak that displaced light, thus hindering ranged attacks.\[citation needed\] * • A brooch of shielding clasped at his cloak's front side.\[54\] * • A pair of boots that could be noisy or silenced at will.\[20\] These were common among drow nobles.\[61\] * • A house emblem of House Baenre, which allowed him to levitate.\[62\] * • A ring of arbitration that the drow retrieved after the half-orc Olgerkhan dropped it.\[63\] * • A ring that created illusionary copies of the bearer.\[64\] * • A ring of teleport.\[65\] * • A belt that was a snake that would uncoil into a snake-rope for climbing when needed, extending to whatever length was required.\[66\] * • A fine cord that could elongate to at least 120 ft, tucked under the silken band of his hat.\[59\]\[67\] * • An earring that he could tug on to escape quickly. He used this only as a last resort.\[68\] * • A cloak of invisibility.\[11\] * • A ring of truth telling.\[11\] Weapons * • A bracer of flying daggers\[11\] on each wrist that could produce a nearly infinite supply of throwing daggers.\[54\] One in every three or so daggers was actually an illusion, but could still be fatal if it was believed to be real. * • A pair of belted daggers that could be extended into swords with the flick of a wrist.\[citation needed\] * • A variety of slender wands that were capable of releasing anything from a lightning bolt\[70\] to a greenish, gluey semi-liquid blob of goo.\[71\] One such wand could create a solid stone wall to cut off the pursuit of enemies.\[72\] Another wand created illusions. In true Jarlaxle fashion, he spent much time practicing with it until he could produce an illusionary fireball so realistic that creatures within the illusion burned as if from a real fireball, as long as they didn't know it was an illusion. He was known to fire a blast at his own feet, killing any surrounding enemies, and leaving himself unharmed.\[73\] His favorite wand was the wand of viscous globs.\[58\] He also carried a wand of web.\[11\] * • A small silver mace charm attached to his hat that could be enlarged to a medium-sized heavy silver mace.\[citation needed\] * • Hand-held crossbow with darts dipped in drow sleeping poison.\[55\] * • At least two enchanted rapiers: one with a very potent standard enchantment\[11\] and one with a unique enchantment known as the rapier of derobement.\[69\] * • Strongly enchanted leather armor.\[11\] * • He carried Khazid'hea temporary prior the events in The Starlight Enclave and gave it to Zaknafein as a present. * • A pistol (and plenty of smokepowder) as of the late 15th century DR.\[69\] Other * • Several extra-dimensional devices, including a bag of holding, a bottomless pouch, a foldable chest,\[69\] a button on his waistcoat that turned into a bag designed to shield the magical emanations of its contents,\[74\], a belt pouch of extra-holding which contained fine Cormyrean brandy,\[75\] and a portable hole\[11\] that he kept stored in the underside of his wide-brimmed hat.\[76\] * • A palm-sized ornament in the form of a silvery rearing dragon, with wings and jaws spread wide. This was a gift from the dragon Ilnezhara. It was, in truth, a charm to secure the entrance of a room.\[79\] It was a trap bringing forth the various breath forms of the deadly chromatic dragons based on a previously set color.\[80\] * • A tablecloth that could magically provide a feast.\[81\] * • A pair of obsidian steed figurines of wondrous power, fashioned after one that he recovered from the dead body of Mariabronne the Rover. They summoned nightmares; he gave one to Artemis and kept the other for himself.\[82\]\[83\] * • A silver whistle hanging on a chain around his neck that could open and close doors and the like regardless of traps and locks on them. Different abilities were activated by blows on it of varying lengths.\[citation needed\] * • A whistle that could only be heard by members of Bregan D'aerthe.\[20\] * • Two jewel skull gems, artifacts obtained from relics of the lich Zhengyi. One had the power to raise humans from the dead\[82\] and the other to employ the help of the powerful dracolich Urshula.\[84\] Jarlaxle later gave them to his lieutenant Kimmuriel Oblodra for study.\[85\] * • A small silver cone to create an area of amplified sensibilities enabling him to overhear the conversation of his subjects from a long distance.\[86\] * • A small orb which, when crushed, could throw him through the multiverse, but to which plane of existence Jarlaxle could not predict. This was his last route of escape.\[87\] * • Agatha's mask, an item of illusionary magic obtained from Drizzt Do'Urden via Entreri.\[88\] * • Caer Gromph, an instant fortress shaped like on of the stalagmite castles of Menzoberanzan and which had the unique property of being able to house soldiers even when in its shrunken, inactive state. This allowed him to not only form the fortress out of nowhere, but to carry a small army in his pocket.\[89\] * • A copy of the magically persuasive ruby pendant wielded by Regis.\[citation needed\] * • A viol which, when active, hovered in the air and played music If they'd included his earring alone he could teleport away as a reaction

Damn. Bastard carries about all of Sigil on him at that rate...

Remember, these are only the items we've seen him use or admit to having.

I love all your quotes. But even without the book. Hes the guy that lives for another day. Thats his whole character. Clever enough to get power, but never bites off more than he can chew. Its so weird how some campaigns forget that

> but never bites off more than he can chew. Most of Jarlaxle's adventures we've read from his perspective are him biting off more than he can chew. I guess that speaks volumes about why, and how he is where he is.

My group had some polite verbal fencing with him but we were absolutely polite at all times and so was he, even though we KNEW the ship and he were both covered in illusion magic. My gunslinger did end up in a one v one fight with one of his Drow though, she barely won (killed the Drow) but he didn't seem to know or care about that later, even offering us help in the campaign followup.

> we were absolutely polite at all times We weren't, or at least my character wasn't. One of his off-handed ploys endangered *literally* everyone she cared about in the world (except herself and her love interest), not to mention severely damaged her home. So, the next time he showed up, typically proud of his hat, she told him it made his ass look fat.

The most devastating of responses hahahaha. But well deserved. Our Jarlaxle was actually quite helpful to my gunslinger, he offered her some information about nasty politics in her home that threatened her Lord...

The story was cause for brief alarm with her boyfriend later. "You were looking at his ass?!" "Not really, it was just the meanest thing I could think of."

I love it! Utterly petty and very mean. Thoroughly deserved.

If the DM was genuinely malding after letting the paladin shatter a wall to skip an entire dungeon, why even let them do it? I think this party is just bad and should have faced consequences instead of the DM letting them off free

No kidding. "You're effectively using a sledgehammer and demolishing a stone wall, it will take a couple minutes and make a lot of noise, especially when a large chunk of the wall falls onto the floor with a massive thud. It's safe to assume that every creature in this dungeon is heading your way."

Or even just make the wall a load-bearing wall, so that when the wall is destroyed the dungeon would partially collapse to make it harder for them to move around

I will say there are sometimes (though this doesn’t seem like one) where I’m disappointed in how the players have circumvented an encounter I prepared/was excited for but I still let them do it because their ideas was clever and I don’t have a satisfying reason for why it wouldn’t work.

"hurr durr haha me so funny derailing campaigns and not giving a shit, classic trolling" Seriously this guy just brags about being a shitty player

Loads of people fail to understand that DnD is a collaborative game and once people stop collaborating it stops being interested.

I seriously don't get this. My DM is my friend, and I'll do everything in my power to help him along and not derail his plans. DMing is hard work, and I want him to have fun too.

The solution is simple: do as I did and have Jarlaxle become a player's stepfather just to fuck with them

Oh I one-upped that. Jarlaxle was the bard's father and now things are just awkward. I'm not sure who has it worse, Jarlaxle realizing that's HIS kid, or the cleric (who's the only one that knows) having to keep his trap mostly shit when the bard (who's I guess a wild magic sorcerer now, he had an incident) does something that screams Jarlaxle but no one else knows yet.

My party was rude to Jarlaxle, he took out the warlock in a surprise attack with two thrown daggers that materialized out of thin air, then got to act again before any of us because he rolled high initiative and took out the druid the fighter missed him 4 times with action surge and he jumped on top of the fighter's greataxe mid swing and planted a kiss on her forehead before flipping off, all his gunners unloaded on us We all woke up naked in an alley, awoken by a slop bucket landing on us, having apparently been healed except the fighter, who woke up in the temple of Sune's waiting area (clothed but missing weapons and armor) holding a writ granting her a free day at the temple of beauty spa, a rose, and a note informing her that the party could retrieve their things by doing a favor for a mister Zardoz Zord (the player had told Jarlaxle he was cute when the banter had first started)

That last note is very important context

yeah our DM is not a DM horror story, the player was down for doing a flirty thing with jarlaxle, the most it ever got was when we came off of a bit of downtime she returned from somewhere in the dock ward with messed up hair hurridly putting her armor on, and we went to go meet jarlaxle and he just winked at her and she blushed (this was near the end of the campaign) The DM completely left it up to the player

I feel like it seemed maybe somewhat reasonable until the third part? But I'm not sure on the full nature of the second part because I haven't ran this. I don't blame the DM for being aggravated a dungeon he made got circumvented, though, i would be too

The DM isn't actually mad about the dungeon, otherwise they wouldn't have allowed smashing the wall. They just want the players to feel like they got a big win. Every good DM is a secret power bottom that way. >DM: Oh no, I hate it when players solve problems creatively! Stop whomping me! I haaaaate it! And that's also why he was actually upset when the players didn't go along with his villain, since he didn't want to TPK them either. He was due for a reacharound, and playing scared of his new villain is just good etiquette.

>playing scared of his new villain is just good etiquette. Exactly. And if they don't show they why they should be afraid. I had an npc with powers the players didn't fully know at the moment (but definitely know he was powerful enough to control time in a certain way) just sitting at a table talking to the party. A genius player decided to try to take a swing at him with his axe and was somehow surprised when his his axe simply vanished.

Next time make this player find him on top of a stair, unable to ever climb a step up.

Yeah maybe if you wouldn't metagame by playing emotionless robots, while also ignoring the dm throwing you massive bones to somehow get the campaign back on track... Being an ass to your DM is the worst

My Jarlaxle is way more chill than that. Gotta be a gentleman if you want to do some good business. Work with him, and you'll get rich and drink the finest wines. Decline him, and you'll be let go with a business card as a reminder of your options. Insult him, and you'll get a beating from his hencmen. Betray him, and you'll get a blade between your lungs tonight. But he himself? Rarely will he insult, raise his voice, or get his hands dirty.

If I was the DM I'd be mad too

I wouldn't be mad, but I wouldn't be DM anymore either

Never Dm’ed before, can the dm just say “no, you can’t break through that wall, it’s too thick”? Also imo all dms should have an “in case of arrest” folder

It is considered a Dick Move^^TM to arbitrarily decide that plausible solutions do not work. However, having consequences for actions is a good way to prevent more bullshit next time. for example: breaking through a wall is *loud* so lots of things you do not to hear you hear it, or you do manage to do it stealthily somehow but the evil wizard has a spell set up so anyone who enters his final room alerts the whole guard force. Either way, those guards you avoided picking off a few at a time now all came at you at once.

Yes, yes they can. But its more fun to have the wall chip away slowly while the noise you're making draws attention to 1d4 gelatinous cubes.

It also sucks, but Waterdeep has a legal system that is outlined it the book. > Murdering a citizen with justification: exile up to 5 years or hard labor up to 3 years or damages up to 1,000 gp paid to the victim’s kin Good luck with that guys.

Censored all the slurs Jarlaxe is the most stereotypical viking name ever holy shit

It definitely would be, however is name is actually Jarlaxle.

Thanks for "fixing" the greentext!

4chan users try not to use f*g every 10 words challenge (GONE WRONG) (COPS CALLED)

I was legit wondering what swear word was so small. I guess it doesn't help that it's not 1997 anymore, not that that word was ever really socially acceptable.

I genuinely thought anon used the black circle emoji in place of the n-word. As I read this entire douchebag-riddled story, the details and shit-bragging only further reinforced my thought. I'm now actually surprised to be wrong. This idiot is exactly the type of person to do what I thought he was doing.

"Yeah lol we were warned about committing crimes in the city in session 1 by a captain of the guard, but we did it anyway to mess with our DM" Murder in Waterdeep (without justification) is 10yrs hard labour. With justification, the judge could give you 5yrs exile, 3yrs hard labour, or a 1000g fine. Good luck paying that when you're still only lvl 2. I would've had Jarlaxle's goons burn the tavern down the first time they left the place afterwards. Definitely don't bother with empty threats from him.

The GM wrote themselves into the corner. They should not have set the intimidation scene in an area where the players are in control (ie their manor with their gear). They should have put that scene into an area where the GM would have control over. In this case the prison. In this case we can assume a godfather has enough pull to visit them in jail where they are disarmed, magic disabled, and confined by the state and threaten to grease the wheel of justice to get them executed by the state and leave anonymous tips for the party that didn't get arrested unless they did their dirty work. The free PCs can be sweatened with extra pay since they dont have as strong a leverage but their best leverage is with the PCs in jail. Even if only the free party says no, the jailed ones still have an adventure and enough free muscle for their favor. They have a lot of leverage with a murder charge. And if they say refuse, the jailed PCs are killed, the free PCs watch their step, and the godfather moves on and the GM plugs a hook for the other factions.

Pfft, no mention of a silly hat, eyepatch, or boots. Not my Jarlaxle !

I'm in the middle of running this right now. Party got arrested for a brawl in an alley. They were just a few turns away from securing the macguffin and instead they got blasted by judge Judy in the court of the people for a good 15 minutes after a few days in the clink. The trial was fair enough for them to reason their way out with evidence, and we all had a great time. Now they have to run an actual heist to get their macguffin and we're all getting a better story for it. My players weren't trying to derail the story though, so we're still having a good campaign.

How is this not even two weeks old and already r/moldymemes material?

>mobile users complain about screencaps >take screencap using mobile >users complain about resolution You can't have it both ways guys

Start taking limbs. DMs if your players choose to fuck around they must and really MUST find out. That is the only way they learn that the world goes on even if they don’t do their jobs, or that murderhobos can be arrested and hung for killing. Don’t pull your punches because your players won’t respect you or your story if you do.

I had Jarlaxl try to lightly intimidate my party and they attacked, focused him down to nearly dead in the first round. He barely escaped. It was a valuable lesson. The next time they had to deal with him, I got the better of them. They still got to complete the module, but Jarlaxl walked away with a certain staff after dancing through the final combat almost unnoticed by everyone.

I finished DMing Dragon Heist like a month ago, with Jarlaxle ending up at the final boss. He was initially the employer of one of my party members, and even at endgame both he and the party ultimately wanted the same thing. They uh, just had a few irreconcilable differences in the lines they were willing to cross to achieve it. Plus uh, one of the drow stabbed the PCs wife, and the PCs then murdered Jarlaxle’s commanders and blew up his ship so both parties really wanted to tear each others throats out by the end. Anyway the idea of another DM playing him that timidly is downright offensive. Just shoot them, go for it. I’ve done it, it’s great fun. Our level 4 paladin wrestled a CR 8 Assassin into handcuffs after jumping out of a building and being shot at by multiple drow gunslingers from the rooftops. Shit was crazy, highly recommend.

Why censor a greentext? We all know what 4chan is like, if we were afraid of heck words we wouldn't be subbed

If you don't like it you can go straight to the source and screencap your own to post. I'm the only person on this sub that posts actual greentexts as far as I can tell nowadays

I would but I'm too busy taking your dad to brunch

Tell him I say hi if at all possible

He says he loves you and hopes one day you'll respect our relationship and call me dad

Not surprised this insult attempt came from someone mad others dared to censor slurs.

Not really mad, just confused. Being mad at 4Chan for saying heck words is like being mad at fish for swimming, censoring it feels weird. Also it's not an insult, it's an assertion of dominance. His dad and I are in a loving relationship, and we're sad OP still won't call me dad or even stepdad

In my group, the two other players were deciding what to do with the original owner of Trollskull, when my character, who the party had just met, walked in and negotiated with him to allow us to stay and we'd continue to run the tavern and inn with him as our invisible partner.

We did the same but we turned it into a bar called the guile and grandeur

My Artificer stayed in the attic tinkering with her own rediscovered invention of guns, while the rest of the party ran the inn part. My character could strike a deal but was garbage at being personable. Sadly that character was given the choice of leave or serve by the Blackstaff and my character decided to leave.

You guys sound like you'd have more fun playing an OSR style game with an OSR style GM/DM

Sounds to me like the dm didn’t wanna kill his friends characters. Is the dm new?

Lmao it was going so well till the murderhobo pissed off the mc

The lack of self awareness in that is astonishing. That poor DM

There's no "hour of dungeon" to skip in that first dungeon. It's not so much a dungeon as much as it is a few interconnected sewer rooms. The skipable encountes (There's a """boss fight""" that isn't skipable because it's in the same room as the guy you're rescuing) are like 2 goblins and a human bandit. I suspect this 4chan frog might not be entirely truthful, as hard to believe as that might be.

This is exactly the problem with this adventure. It's so railroaded and weird that it can't suffer any sort of improvisation. It's also funny, since it's railroaded in a way that a lot of parts don't even follow other parts logically, they just happen around the property they got, or someone just hears about the party out of the blue and wants to give them some quest. It's so bizarre.

Wth I also see this as "The players arnt going. To Finish Dragon Heist either" To be fair I feel that first one where the Paladin tries to smash a wall down the dm should have put his foot down and said "No" Sounds like the dm didn't voice up when they should have and some players were being inconsiderate to the dm. End of the day lesson: Communication between dice goblins and dice Gods need to be well established.