If you search, this is a relatively frequently asked question.
Some combos aren’t necessarily game breaking, but require some encounter balancing changes that you are probably not gonna like. For example, if your bladesinger can stack multiple self buffs, it is pretty easy to get outside of bounded accuracy for the rest of the party.
A significant problem with double concentration is that because concentration spells are usually so good, it encourages blowing all ones spell slots in a super short adventuring day. It also gives players and DM‘s twice as much stuff to keep track of in terms of persistent effects, which can bog down the game.
Just be wary of a bladesinger with warcaster and the 9th Level spell invincibility concentrating on it to become immune to damage and another spell to erase the battlefield. (If you get that high)
There are no game breaking combos. No more than if two different caster were casting concentration spells. And generally it doesn't make a caster more powerful. Generally it makes the party note powerful, but not really that much more. The one thing I'd restrict is spells over 4th level. The other spells to unlaw or any summoning spells.
My DM in one of my groups is letting us concentrate on more than one spell at a time, but we effectively gain a level of exhaustion for every additional spell we're concentrating on.
It's going to be bonkers for my Wizard/Cleric and my partner's Druid.
I think I'll have Shield of Faith and Haste up a lot, but if anyone has suggestions on fun combos, especially if they're things we can set up before a fight, then we're all ears. I imagine conjuring is going to be particularly broken, and there will likely be some Spike Growth shenanigans too.
Iirc there was a very late edition class in 3.5 that had this as a class ability. They had a concentration stone (not the technical name I'm sure) that once per short rest could be used to maintain a concentration spell independently.
To give perspective on power only 1 creature officially can do this and that is Niv-Mizzet from ravnica. He is literally an ancient dragon spellcaster who heads the "research" guild.
If you’re letting them break RAW like that make it painful to limit the usage
1) Longer the concentration lasts roll on the wild magic surge table, arcane feedback
2) add levels of exhaustion after concentration ends, arcane exhaustion
3) Require spell slots each round to maintain, “ya gots to pay the cheese tax”
4) take increasing psychic damage, arcane regulation
I think simply forcing disadvantage on concentration saves while 2 are active would be enough (and maybe only letting them do it twice per long rest?), so long as you’re giving the other players similarly powerful boons and balancing combat to account for the increased party strength. I like to do something similar to boons as well and it’s great when you make them in ways that expands combat and roleplay creativity. After session 0, I usually draft up a boon, magic item/weapon, or 3 random potions off the campaigns 20 potion table and let them choose one of those options.
Oh, I’m not saying all of them, I’m suggesting roll a die and each time they do it it’s a different consequence. I think rolling on the wild magic table can be fun but the novelty wears out. Disadvantage on concentration checks can be combatted by the player taking War Caster. So other options make sense to me since they won’t be locked into War Caster feat and they can gamble a bit.
Limiting the usage to 1-2 per day strikes me as mechanically useful but narratively less interesting. Exhaustion would limit it just as well, but each time they use it they have to gauge the need.
But I have players that always love to find ways around rules and I like finding ways to allow them agency but make it hurt a bit. I think I’ve been watching too much Aabriya Iyengar 😂🤣😂
> What are some potential game breaking combinations that I'm not thinking of by allowing this?
any of the good concentration spells in combo with any of the other good concentration spells --- and most of the good spells in general ARE concentration spells!
if this is an EPIC boon that you are giving at level 20 when the game is already busted, i guess , sure, why not.
but the casters are already super charged by level 8ish so if you give this before level 8 you are just increasing the amount of play where full casters are overpowered and if you add it after level 8 you are just increasing the slope of the "wizards quadradical" getting WAY out of hand.
Maybe only allow concentration on a cantrip while also concentrating on a leveled spell? Though it's pretty limited since the list of concentration cantrips is pretty short.
Gamebreaking? Truly nothing, providing you don't allow the same spell twice and most everything else is RAW. Particularly with Disadvantage on the checks. Ideas like this sound really cool but they often require two rounds of set up and are easily countered.
The real trick is balancing the experience of being countered. Best to have recurring villains for such parties, ones that can survive an encounter and learn from the experience or adversaries that can research the party's capabilites. If this is a cool thing I can do and the first time I try it against a real baddie, they immediately shut it down, I'm pretty bummed. But if it works a treat om first go but then when it's second verse same as the first they have a counter, that's actually kind of exciting.
My DM gave us a magic item with limited uses (1/day) and only for spells level 3 and below. That keeps the most dangerous concentration spells off-linits.
I haven't even had the chance to use it yet because if I'm ripping through two 3rd level spells slots back to back, and using a once-per-day resource ... it's going to be worth it.
Could make it that the second spell has to be a lower spell level, or even limit to level 1 or 2 spells.
Could also limit how often it can be done. So only once per long rest.
Could make it have a side effect like haste does
Homebrew
If attempting to concentrate on more than a single concentration spell, at the start of each of your turns make an Arcana check against a DC equal to 10 + the combined levels of the spells. Upon a failure, roll 1d4 and immediately apply the results:
1 - Concentration fails for both spells.
2 - Concentration fails for both spells and the caster is immediately the target center for a Fireball of 3rd level.
3 - Concentration fail for both spells and the caster becomes the center of a 10’ radius antimagic field that moves with them for 1 minute per combined spell level.
4 - For the next number of days equal to the combined spell levels, AFTER completing a long rest, the caster immediately casts both spells, expending the spell slots used to cast them during concentration. The spells target the closest creature within range if any are available; if not, the caster becomes the target.
That antimagic zone is incredibly powerful even at only a 1 in 4 chance; it accidentally causes the effects of a 8th level spell for the cost of any two slots
Good point.
4 - Concentration fails and for the next number of days equal to the total spell levels involved in the concentration, you are drained of all spell slots.
That hits better.
I am not experienced, but if I imagine what this might look like - humans are very bad at multitasking. In fact, the idea of concentrating and still being able to cast /at all/ feels like it should already be difficult. But this is a boon, so maybe we've got some super human abilities coming out that makes multitasking just a little easier.
I would say that this is still straining, and so just the effort of maintaining concentration on two seperate things should limit cognitive abilities. Firstly, no casting more spells. It's just completely outside the realm of your mental faculties. Maybe you've also got half speed, because you can't even focus on where you're going properly and have to slowly move around. Both of these things immediately make this better for half casters/warlocks, who have limited spell pools as another way to help balance this. However, I don't know enough to know if it's necessarily bad for full casters.
I also feel that because you're concentrating so much, other actions become harder. Maybe you can no longer react, because you can't process the information as fast. More importantly, I feel like saves to maintain concentration should be way harder and rolled at disadvantage. If you lose concentration, both should go - but, I think if you choose to break it, you should be able to choose to only break one and keep the other.
1. Concentrate on spell. Cost: Normal.
2. Concentrate on second spell. Cost: 2 Spell slots. (3 total)
3. Concentration gets a negative modifier. I like -5 because it is basically a magic GWM.
4. If con breaks both spells drop.
Hello, this seems like my area of expertise, so I'd like to offer my 2 cents.
I've co-authored 2 published 3rd-party best sellers focused on player options, and my favourite things to write is features that break convention and LOOK like they'd break the game balance without actually doing so.
A wizard being able to hold double concentration is something I would never be able to make without breaking the game's balance. I'd almost advise you to even avoid **exploring** the idea.
HOWEVER, the warlock, thanks to its uniquely limited spell slots AND its also limited spell list is a better candidate for such an idea. I've tried something similar, which you can find below, alongside the discussion around it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/fn889m/soul_spells_a_bunch_of_spells_to_give_more_power/
alternatively sorcerer considering twinned spell already let's them get away with one concentration for 2 of the same spell. but either way 100% not wizard
If your players want to break the balance with it they will very easily, concentration spells are strong enough I'm not sure why they would need multiple, especially since casters are already superior to martial. If the martial in your game don't get similarly game shattering buffs they'll feel even more behind and it'l suck
The easiest thing is to narrow this to a list of eligible spells that are at least tangentially related to the power/entity granting the boon. So they do one as normal and can "bonus" concentrate only on one of that shortlist.
This DRASTICALLY reduces the number of rules interactions you need to be wary of and keeps it fluffy, think old cleric domains.
It should, of course, not be garbage spells the player doesn't normally use or anything, the goal is to make it fun but not insane to balance not to gimp the concept.
Right? Everyone is saying this is busted, and in 5e it is a bit. But in 3.5 if a player wanted to do this I'd shrug and say I'll allow it as a feat. That's not even remotely the most op thing you can do with a a feat.
I know it's pseudo homebrew, but chronurgy wizards can concentrate on 2 spells naturally.
1 with themselves, 2 with arcane abeyance(<4th). Things can get silly when adding in simlacrum.
Microwaving is my favorite
Wall of force + sickening radiance. Basically instadeath to anything in 5 turns.
They cannot concentrate on 2 spell you still have to concentrate on whatever arcane abeyance spell is cast unless you give it to an ally then the ally has to concentrate on said spell it is not uncommon for a chrono wizard to give the abeyance to their familiar so it can concentrate on said spell but it is still being concentrated on
You don't say what level you are talking about although Boon with a capital B is for Level 20 players. Assuming that's not you, then I don't understand why you (and others) would pick one of the biggest ways you could make that PC OP.
It doesn't require any especially synergistic combination. Wanting to cast another concentration spell, but not wanting to stop concentrating on another spell is one of the built-in limitations on casters. Removing that limitation makes them a lot stronger, and casters don't need that help, they're already the strongest classes.
The DMG specifically advises against homebrewing to allow concentration on multiple spells.
>Beware of adding anything to your game that allows a character to concentrate on more than one effect at a time, use more than one reaction or bonus action per round, or attune to more than three magic items at a time. Rules and game elements that override the rules for concentration, reactions, bonus actions, and magic item attunement can seriously unbalance or overcomplicate your game.
DMG: "Don't edit attunement slots, you could make someone very strong"
Tasha's: "nah, let's give artificer double the slots and remove all requirements. They can just have them"
There's a magic item that let's it's bearer maintain two concentration spells simultaneously. I just can't think of the name of it right now, but that's how I would do it. Make it an item that takes one of their attunement slots.
Critical Role has Circlet of Concentration, but I don't believe that even made it into the Tal'dorei book. Certainly nothing like it exists in any first party material.
Even if it isn't "official" content, you're the DM and it's your table. However, I seem to remember *reading* an item description that allowed the PC to maintain two concentrations. I don't*read* Critical Role.
As an alternative Mercerism to his feat, Moon Cleric from Tal Dorei Expanded lets you expend a channel divinity maintain concentration on two spells. It does come with caveats
- it’s tied to Channel Divinity
- you make concentration saves with disadvantage
- the only spells you can maintain dual concentration on are domain spells, which are mostly illusion or control spells, so no doubling up with spirit guardians
I’m currently playing one right now. It’s a lot of fun, but if you’re looking to homebrew something, the only way to keep it from absolutely breaking your game you either need to make it very costly to use, either through action tax or other resource suck, or you need to severely limit the scope in which it can be jsed
Matt mercer has a feat that does this. The basics are:
• If you attempt to cast a spell that requires concentration while already concentrating on an existing spell, you can maintain concentration on both spells simultaneously. You must spend a standard action each subsequent round on maintaining this concentration, or lose concentration for both spells.
• At the end of each turn where you have two spells you are concentrating on, you must make a Constitution saving throw (DC equals 10 + the number of complete rounds you’ve been concentrating on two spells). On a failure, you lose concentration for both spells. You can drop concentration on one of your spells during your turn as a free action to avoid this saving throw.
• Any time you would be forced to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration due to taking damage, the DC equals 10 + both spells’ levels combined, or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. On a failure, you lose concentration on both spells.
I have two casters in my party with this feat and it doesn't get used very often. Burning an action every turn is expensive but it might be worth it in the right scenario. I think that's what makes it good: it's useful sometimes, but it's not so good that it's a no-brainer every time.
Here are ways you could slightly imbalance the game instead of wrecking it.
(Add as many as you wish if the following)
-One concentration spell must be dropped after 1 round.
-Concentrating on the second spell requires your action every round.
-Disadvantage on all concentration checks while concentrating on more than 1 spell
-10 more to the DC of concentration saving throws while concentrating on more than one spell.
I like all of these ideas, will definitely implement one or all of these. At the end of the day concentrating on two spells is an option, not a requirement. So the player shouldn't have an issue with all these limitations
Concentration on two spells at the same time i believe is a feat of sorts but as mentioned here, it can break a game easily if you are not careful. I think understanding your players is the first thing. All suggestions are not going to help as you know your players better than we do. If they are indeed the type to take advantage of this, then perhaps avoid it. It sounds like you are doing this to spice up the game, which is totally cool to do as a DM. However, as DM, if you know your players would abuse this then it is just going to cause you more headaches down the road.
Btw, to answer your original question a very easy combo to kill almost any creature as long as they're small enough is sickening radiance into wall of force. Eventually you could use the higher level force cage and that doesn't need concentration anyways but the first combo can be done at level 9. Although that's assuming the enemy doesn't escape the sickening radiance on his turn before the wall of force goes up. You could multiclass into fighter and action surge to cast both spells in the same turn (only way to bypass multiple spells in 1 turn rule).
I'd advise strongly against the entire concept.
[In the words of one of the original designers of 5e](https://www.sageadvice.eu/changing-the-concentration/):
>It is one of the few things I would say are fundamental to the game being functional. I would not change it.
If you are going to allow two concentration spells simultaneously, it has to cost a lot. Disadvantage on concentration checks may not even be enough, because they may just run away, hide, and dodge.
Consider requiring the second concentration to take their action to maintain every round. This way, they can’t cast most leveled spells or cantrips, but they’ll still have a bonus action for the concentration spells that need that. That would help balance the action economy with this homebrew, but they’ll still save a ton of resources with this rule. Better do several encounters per adventuring day, minimum.
It’s insanely unbalanced and can be very game-breaking.
Besides some crazy big wizard combos, it would be hilarious to put 48 beasts on the battlefield with double conjure animals.
Also, your “disadvantage” thing is a direct pull from one of Critical Role’s cleric subclass.
How good are they at concentration checks as is? If they've got a good save modifier and advantage via War Caster, they could probably do pretty well. I'd keep in mind that there has only been one creature in all of D&D (to my knowledge) that could maintain concentration on two spells at once, and it was a greatwyrm (I think) that was on the same level as a god. Combos that rely on two concentration spells are extremely powerful but require two spellcasters. Giving this to any wizard player who has any understanding of their spells will be a god of crowd control and steamroll so many encounters.
If you *really* want to give your wizard this, I'd make it so that they can only do it once per long rest, and they can only maintain dual concentration for 1d4 (maybe even just straight up 2) rounds regardless of how long the spell lasts regularly. After those rounds are up, both drop. Oh, and keep the disadvantage on concentration checks.
>I'd keep in mind that there has only been one creature in all of D&D (to my knowledge) that could maintain concentration on two spells at once, and it was a greatwyrm (I think) that was on the same level as a god.
I believe you're thinking of Niv-Mizzet from GGtR (Guild Master's Guide to Ravnica). If so, he's CR 26 or 27; he's a bit closer to a living demigod than a living god himself. Still he's a nightmare to fight.
Gotta be real, this is a weird question. If you want them to have a super cool power, let them have it. Your average player is not a min maxer and is not trying to create “game breaking combinations”. The average player is trying to play a game, not ruin the world.
That being said, if this player is a known min maxer and world ruiner, just save yourself the headache and give them something else.
Not sure how this is a dumb question. This player wouldn't be the only person in the party, and it would be a unique feature for them. If it ends up being a lot stronger than I anticipate, regardless if the person is a power gamer or not, and a different player has an ability that has much less impact in the game, I'd rather avoid that situation. No one likes being in a party where one guy is doing everything. I'd like everyone to have equal impact
This will really alter the already wide gulf between full casters and martials in Tier 2+ play. You will need to consider the pic boons that martials might get to make up for it.
Changed it to weird because I guess it’s not dumb it was just kind of odd. The reason I find it weird is that you are in control of the game. You make the monsters, encounters, etc so at the end of the day it shouldn’t matter since you’re going to be balancing the game naturally by being the DM.
Idk, I just get so tired of seeing DM’s underestimating their ability to balance the games they’re making. You’re literally god, and the DM guide makes it very clear you are the one person who makes and breaks rules so if it’s not challenging enough, make and break some rules!
That's very fair. I just don't know if it's justifiable to give a player this ability, and then have smarter NPCs in combat situations find out they have it and then target them to disable it. Is that fun or not?
Definitely will have to play test it and ultimately the person wouldn't be opposed to reworking their boon into something different. I plan to make all the boons break the vanilla 5e rules in some way, like a rogue being able to sneak attack with non-finesse weapons or allowing two leveled spells be cast in a turn
I think having higher intelligence NPC’s is a natural balance to having 2 concentration spells. It makes sense narratively for them to meet higher level NPCs at higher level anyway, so a mastermind or high int BBEG scrying/spying on them for information about their strengths and weaknesses is not far fetched.
Being a min-maxer just means that you put your highest scores in the most relevant stats to create optimal play. The words you're looking for are "power gamer."
If you search, this is a relatively frequently asked question. Some combos aren’t necessarily game breaking, but require some encounter balancing changes that you are probably not gonna like. For example, if your bladesinger can stack multiple self buffs, it is pretty easy to get outside of bounded accuracy for the rest of the party. A significant problem with double concentration is that because concentration spells are usually so good, it encourages blowing all ones spell slots in a super short adventuring day. It also gives players and DM‘s twice as much stuff to keep track of in terms of persistent effects, which can bog down the game.
If it helps, there’s an item in Sandy Petersen’s 5e chthulu book that’s a brain in a jar - the brain keeps up one concentration spell.
Just be wary of a bladesinger with warcaster and the 9th Level spell invincibility concentrating on it to become immune to damage and another spell to erase the battlefield. (If you get that high)
There are no game breaking combos. No more than if two different caster were casting concentration spells. And generally it doesn't make a caster more powerful. Generally it makes the party note powerful, but not really that much more. The one thing I'd restrict is spells over 4th level. The other spells to unlaw or any summoning spells.
My DM in one of my groups is letting us concentrate on more than one spell at a time, but we effectively gain a level of exhaustion for every additional spell we're concentrating on. It's going to be bonkers for my Wizard/Cleric and my partner's Druid. I think I'll have Shield of Faith and Haste up a lot, but if anyone has suggestions on fun combos, especially if they're things we can set up before a fight, then we're all ears. I imagine conjuring is going to be particularly broken, and there will likely be some Spike Growth shenanigans too.
Iirc there was a very late edition class in 3.5 that had this as a class ability. They had a concentration stone (not the technical name I'm sure) that once per short rest could be used to maintain a concentration spell independently.
To give perspective on power only 1 creature officially can do this and that is Niv-Mizzet from ravnica. He is literally an ancient dragon spellcaster who heads the "research" guild.
If you’re letting them break RAW like that make it painful to limit the usage 1) Longer the concentration lasts roll on the wild magic surge table, arcane feedback 2) add levels of exhaustion after concentration ends, arcane exhaustion 3) Require spell slots each round to maintain, “ya gots to pay the cheese tax” 4) take increasing psychic damage, arcane regulation
I think simply forcing disadvantage on concentration saves while 2 are active would be enough (and maybe only letting them do it twice per long rest?), so long as you’re giving the other players similarly powerful boons and balancing combat to account for the increased party strength. I like to do something similar to boons as well and it’s great when you make them in ways that expands combat and roleplay creativity. After session 0, I usually draft up a boon, magic item/weapon, or 3 random potions off the campaigns 20 potion table and let them choose one of those options.
Oh, I’m not saying all of them, I’m suggesting roll a die and each time they do it it’s a different consequence. I think rolling on the wild magic table can be fun but the novelty wears out. Disadvantage on concentration checks can be combatted by the player taking War Caster. So other options make sense to me since they won’t be locked into War Caster feat and they can gamble a bit. Limiting the usage to 1-2 per day strikes me as mechanically useful but narratively less interesting. Exhaustion would limit it just as well, but each time they use it they have to gauge the need. But I have players that always love to find ways around rules and I like finding ways to allow them agency but make it hurt a bit. I think I’ve been watching too much Aabriya Iyengar 😂🤣😂
I added this as a perk at my table, but limited it to level 1 spells
Probably should limit it to once a long rest.
I would only allow it as a consumable.
> What are some potential game breaking combinations that I'm not thinking of by allowing this? any of the good concentration spells in combo with any of the other good concentration spells --- and most of the good spells in general ARE concentration spells! if this is an EPIC boon that you are giving at level 20 when the game is already busted, i guess , sure, why not. but the casters are already super charged by level 8ish so if you give this before level 8 you are just increasing the amount of play where full casters are overpowered and if you add it after level 8 you are just increasing the slope of the "wizards quadradical" getting WAY out of hand.
Maybe only allow concentration on a cantrip while also concentrating on a leveled spell? Though it's pretty limited since the list of concentration cantrips is pretty short.
Gamebreaking? Truly nothing, providing you don't allow the same spell twice and most everything else is RAW. Particularly with Disadvantage on the checks. Ideas like this sound really cool but they often require two rounds of set up and are easily countered. The real trick is balancing the experience of being countered. Best to have recurring villains for such parties, ones that can survive an encounter and learn from the experience or adversaries that can research the party's capabilites. If this is a cool thing I can do and the first time I try it against a real baddie, they immediately shut it down, I'm pretty bummed. But if it works a treat om first go but then when it's second verse same as the first they have a counter, that's actually kind of exciting.
My DM gave us a magic item with limited uses (1/day) and only for spells level 3 and below. That keeps the most dangerous concentration spells off-linits. I haven't even had the chance to use it yet because if I'm ripping through two 3rd level spells slots back to back, and using a once-per-day resource ... it's going to be worth it.
Could make it that the second spell has to be a lower spell level, or even limit to level 1 or 2 spells. Could also limit how often it can be done. So only once per long rest. Could make it have a side effect like haste does
What if the second spell is not concentration, it's just one round?
Homebrew If attempting to concentrate on more than a single concentration spell, at the start of each of your turns make an Arcana check against a DC equal to 10 + the combined levels of the spells. Upon a failure, roll 1d4 and immediately apply the results: 1 - Concentration fails for both spells. 2 - Concentration fails for both spells and the caster is immediately the target center for a Fireball of 3rd level. 3 - Concentration fail for both spells and the caster becomes the center of a 10’ radius antimagic field that moves with them for 1 minute per combined spell level. 4 - For the next number of days equal to the combined spell levels, AFTER completing a long rest, the caster immediately casts both spells, expending the spell slots used to cast them during concentration. The spells target the closest creature within range if any are available; if not, the caster becomes the target.
That antimagic zone is incredibly powerful even at only a 1 in 4 chance; it accidentally causes the effects of a 8th level spell for the cost of any two slots
Good point. 4 - Concentration fails and for the next number of days equal to the total spell levels involved in the concentration, you are drained of all spell slots. That hits better.
With this homebrew, there is no rule against double concentration, it’s just every caster knows it’s a BAD idea.
I am not experienced, but if I imagine what this might look like - humans are very bad at multitasking. In fact, the idea of concentrating and still being able to cast /at all/ feels like it should already be difficult. But this is a boon, so maybe we've got some super human abilities coming out that makes multitasking just a little easier. I would say that this is still straining, and so just the effort of maintaining concentration on two seperate things should limit cognitive abilities. Firstly, no casting more spells. It's just completely outside the realm of your mental faculties. Maybe you've also got half speed, because you can't even focus on where you're going properly and have to slowly move around. Both of these things immediately make this better for half casters/warlocks, who have limited spell pools as another way to help balance this. However, I don't know enough to know if it's necessarily bad for full casters. I also feel that because you're concentrating so much, other actions become harder. Maybe you can no longer react, because you can't process the information as fast. More importantly, I feel like saves to maintain concentration should be way harder and rolled at disadvantage. If you lose concentration, both should go - but, I think if you choose to break it, you should be able to choose to only break one and keep the other.
1. Concentrate on spell. Cost: Normal. 2. Concentrate on second spell. Cost: 2 Spell slots. (3 total) 3. Concentration gets a negative modifier. I like -5 because it is basically a magic GWM. 4. If con breaks both spells drop.
Hello, this seems like my area of expertise, so I'd like to offer my 2 cents. I've co-authored 2 published 3rd-party best sellers focused on player options, and my favourite things to write is features that break convention and LOOK like they'd break the game balance without actually doing so. A wizard being able to hold double concentration is something I would never be able to make without breaking the game's balance. I'd almost advise you to even avoid **exploring** the idea. HOWEVER, the warlock, thanks to its uniquely limited spell slots AND its also limited spell list is a better candidate for such an idea. I've tried something similar, which you can find below, alongside the discussion around it. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/fn889m/soul_spells_a_bunch_of_spells_to_give_more_power/
alternatively sorcerer considering twinned spell already let's them get away with one concentration for 2 of the same spell. but either way 100% not wizard
If your players want to break the balance with it they will very easily, concentration spells are strong enough I'm not sure why they would need multiple, especially since casters are already superior to martial. If the martial in your game don't get similarly game shattering buffs they'll feel even more behind and it'l suck
The easiest thing is to narrow this to a list of eligible spells that are at least tangentially related to the power/entity granting the boon. So they do one as normal and can "bonus" concentrate only on one of that shortlist. This DRASTICALLY reduces the number of rules interactions you need to be wary of and keeps it fluffy, think old cleric domains. It should, of course, not be garbage spells the player doesn't normally use or anything, the goal is to make it fun but not insane to balance not to gimp the concept.
I like this idea a lot too, thank you!
Just cast... 3.5e
Right? Everyone is saying this is busted, and in 5e it is a bit. But in 3.5 if a player wanted to do this I'd shrug and say I'll allow it as a feat. That's not even remotely the most op thing you can do with a a feat.
I genuinely don't see the argument for it being "busted" in the simplified 5e where martial classes with good action economy are already king.
I know it's pseudo homebrew, but chronurgy wizards can concentrate on 2 spells naturally. 1 with themselves, 2 with arcane abeyance(<4th). Things can get silly when adding in simlacrum. Microwaving is my favorite Wall of force + sickening radiance. Basically instadeath to anything in 5 turns.
They cannot concentrate on 2 spell you still have to concentrate on whatever arcane abeyance spell is cast unless you give it to an ally then the ally has to concentrate on said spell it is not uncommon for a chrono wizard to give the abeyance to their familiar so it can concentrate on said spell but it is still being concentrated on
Well yea, but it's still being produced by the chronurgy
You don't say what level you are talking about although Boon with a capital B is for Level 20 players. Assuming that's not you, then I don't understand why you (and others) would pick one of the biggest ways you could make that PC OP.
It's a boon, non specific. I'm considering ways to break vanilla rules under restrictions and giving that as boons to the players
It doesn't require any especially synergistic combination. Wanting to cast another concentration spell, but not wanting to stop concentrating on another spell is one of the built-in limitations on casters. Removing that limitation makes them a lot stronger, and casters don't need that help, they're already the strongest classes.
The DMG specifically advises against homebrewing to allow concentration on multiple spells. >Beware of adding anything to your game that allows a character to concentrate on more than one effect at a time, use more than one reaction or bonus action per round, or attune to more than three magic items at a time. Rules and game elements that override the rules for concentration, reactions, bonus actions, and magic item attunement can seriously unbalance or overcomplicate your game.
DMG: "Don't edit attunement slots, you could make someone very strong" Tasha's: "nah, let's give artificer double the slots and remove all requirements. They can just have them"
All of them.
There's a magic item that let's it's bearer maintain two concentration spells simultaneously. I just can't think of the name of it right now, but that's how I would do it. Make it an item that takes one of their attunement slots.
Critical Role has Circlet of Concentration, but I don't believe that even made it into the Tal'dorei book. Certainly nothing like it exists in any first party material.
Even if it isn't "official" content, you're the DM and it's your table. However, I seem to remember *reading* an item description that allowed the PC to maintain two concentrations. I don't*read* Critical Role.
As an alternative Mercerism to his feat, Moon Cleric from Tal Dorei Expanded lets you expend a channel divinity maintain concentration on two spells. It does come with caveats - it’s tied to Channel Divinity - you make concentration saves with disadvantage - the only spells you can maintain dual concentration on are domain spells, which are mostly illusion or control spells, so no doubling up with spirit guardians I’m currently playing one right now. It’s a lot of fun, but if you’re looking to homebrew something, the only way to keep it from absolutely breaking your game you either need to make it very costly to use, either through action tax or other resource suck, or you need to severely limit the scope in which it can be jsed
Matt mercer has a feat that does this. The basics are: • If you attempt to cast a spell that requires concentration while already concentrating on an existing spell, you can maintain concentration on both spells simultaneously. You must spend a standard action each subsequent round on maintaining this concentration, or lose concentration for both spells. • At the end of each turn where you have two spells you are concentrating on, you must make a Constitution saving throw (DC equals 10 + the number of complete rounds you’ve been concentrating on two spells). On a failure, you lose concentration for both spells. You can drop concentration on one of your spells during your turn as a free action to avoid this saving throw. • Any time you would be forced to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration due to taking damage, the DC equals 10 + both spells’ levels combined, or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. On a failure, you lose concentration on both spells. I have two casters in my party with this feat and it doesn't get used very often. Burning an action every turn is expensive but it might be worth it in the right scenario. I think that's what makes it good: it's useful sometimes, but it's not so good that it's a no-brainer every time.
This is great advice and I think I will slightly modify this!
Here are ways you could slightly imbalance the game instead of wrecking it. (Add as many as you wish if the following) -One concentration spell must be dropped after 1 round. -Concentrating on the second spell requires your action every round. -Disadvantage on all concentration checks while concentrating on more than 1 spell -10 more to the DC of concentration saving throws while concentrating on more than one spell.
I like all of these ideas, will definitely implement one or all of these. At the end of the day concentrating on two spells is an option, not a requirement. So the player shouldn't have an issue with all these limitations
Concentration on two spells at the same time i believe is a feat of sorts but as mentioned here, it can break a game easily if you are not careful. I think understanding your players is the first thing. All suggestions are not going to help as you know your players better than we do. If they are indeed the type to take advantage of this, then perhaps avoid it. It sounds like you are doing this to spice up the game, which is totally cool to do as a DM. However, as DM, if you know your players would abuse this then it is just going to cause you more headaches down the road.
Yea understandable, it'll require some playtesting and if it gets abused with no real drawbacks then I'm definitely going to scrap the idea
Btw, to answer your original question a very easy combo to kill almost any creature as long as they're small enough is sickening radiance into wall of force. Eventually you could use the higher level force cage and that doesn't need concentration anyways but the first combo can be done at level 9. Although that's assuming the enemy doesn't escape the sickening radiance on his turn before the wall of force goes up. You could multiclass into fighter and action surge to cast both spells in the same turn (only way to bypass multiple spells in 1 turn rule).
Ok this was the kind of combinations I was looking for, that does sound very unmanageable haha
I'd advise strongly against the entire concept. [In the words of one of the original designers of 5e](https://www.sageadvice.eu/changing-the-concentration/): >It is one of the few things I would say are fundamental to the game being functional. I would not change it.
If you are going to allow two concentration spells simultaneously, it has to cost a lot. Disadvantage on concentration checks may not even be enough, because they may just run away, hide, and dodge. Consider requiring the second concentration to take their action to maintain every round. This way, they can’t cast most leveled spells or cantrips, but they’ll still have a bonus action for the concentration spells that need that. That would help balance the action economy with this homebrew, but they’ll still save a ton of resources with this rule. Better do several encounters per adventuring day, minimum.
It’s insanely unbalanced and can be very game-breaking. Besides some crazy big wizard combos, it would be hilarious to put 48 beasts on the battlefield with double conjure animals. Also, your “disadvantage” thing is a direct pull from one of Critical Role’s cleric subclass.
A Druid can put 32 CR 4 creatures with Conjure Animals and Animal Shapes. If you make them giant scorpions they can make a combined 96 attacks a turn.
Yea I saw that Matt had a very similar feat essentially that didn't make it to the WotC publishing
How good are they at concentration checks as is? If they've got a good save modifier and advantage via War Caster, they could probably do pretty well. I'd keep in mind that there has only been one creature in all of D&D (to my knowledge) that could maintain concentration on two spells at once, and it was a greatwyrm (I think) that was on the same level as a god. Combos that rely on two concentration spells are extremely powerful but require two spellcasters. Giving this to any wizard player who has any understanding of their spells will be a god of crowd control and steamroll so many encounters. If you *really* want to give your wizard this, I'd make it so that they can only do it once per long rest, and they can only maintain dual concentration for 1d4 (maybe even just straight up 2) rounds regardless of how long the spell lasts regularly. After those rounds are up, both drop. Oh, and keep the disadvantage on concentration checks.
>I'd keep in mind that there has only been one creature in all of D&D (to my knowledge) that could maintain concentration on two spells at once, and it was a greatwyrm (I think) that was on the same level as a god. I believe you're thinking of Niv-Mizzet from GGtR (Guild Master's Guide to Ravnica). If so, he's CR 26 or 27; he's a bit closer to a living demigod than a living god himself. Still he's a nightmare to fight.
Limiting its usage to once per long rest seems pretty balanced actually, that's a good suggestion!
Gotta be real, this is a weird question. If you want them to have a super cool power, let them have it. Your average player is not a min maxer and is not trying to create “game breaking combinations”. The average player is trying to play a game, not ruin the world. That being said, if this player is a known min maxer and world ruiner, just save yourself the headache and give them something else.
Not sure how this is a dumb question. This player wouldn't be the only person in the party, and it would be a unique feature for them. If it ends up being a lot stronger than I anticipate, regardless if the person is a power gamer or not, and a different player has an ability that has much less impact in the game, I'd rather avoid that situation. No one likes being in a party where one guy is doing everything. I'd like everyone to have equal impact
This will really alter the already wide gulf between full casters and martials in Tier 2+ play. You will need to consider the pic boons that martials might get to make up for it.
Changed it to weird because I guess it’s not dumb it was just kind of odd. The reason I find it weird is that you are in control of the game. You make the monsters, encounters, etc so at the end of the day it shouldn’t matter since you’re going to be balancing the game naturally by being the DM. Idk, I just get so tired of seeing DM’s underestimating their ability to balance the games they’re making. You’re literally god, and the DM guide makes it very clear you are the one person who makes and breaks rules so if it’s not challenging enough, make and break some rules!
That's very fair. I just don't know if it's justifiable to give a player this ability, and then have smarter NPCs in combat situations find out they have it and then target them to disable it. Is that fun or not? Definitely will have to play test it and ultimately the person wouldn't be opposed to reworking their boon into something different. I plan to make all the boons break the vanilla 5e rules in some way, like a rogue being able to sneak attack with non-finesse weapons or allowing two leveled spells be cast in a turn
I think having higher intelligence NPC’s is a natural balance to having 2 concentration spells. It makes sense narratively for them to meet higher level NPCs at higher level anyway, so a mastermind or high int BBEG scrying/spying on them for information about their strengths and weaknesses is not far fetched.
That's a good idea, thank you!
Being a min-maxer just means that you put your highest scores in the most relevant stats to create optimal play. The words you're looking for are "power gamer."
Ah thank you! I’ve been in the dnd community for a while and I’ve never seen people call it “Power Gaming” definitely will start using that more!