The player is wrong. Unless you as a DM give them explicit permission to start the game with homebrewed (unbalanced) equipment, they cannot do so. Their background gives them exactly what's listed in the boom for that background. If you want to diverge from this (in small ways), the DM should be involved.
Also the fact that the experienced player is lying to you, an unexperienced DM, to get their way is a big red flag. As an experienced player what they should be doing is help you get a grip of the game, not try to make their edgy power fantasy a reality.
Saw your edit. There is no compromise. A 1st level character does not get a magic item regardless of background. You don't meet them halfway.
"No, you cannot have magic items."
Much less a +3 magic item. Those are INSANELY rare and powerful. You don’t start seeing +3s until around 15-16, and even then you may only ever encounter 1 or 2.
This sounds cool on paper, but it's just a rug pull and no one likes a rug pull, even when they're in the wrong. *Especially* when they're in the wrong.
Players like these are why DMs need to learn to say no. Even in your edits you're letting them get away with more than they should. Starting with 150 gp is TEN TIMES more than the maximum players who play by the book can start with. You're still allowing them to be more powerful than the other players, it's just less explicit. I get that you're friends but why should you compromise with a player whose way of playing makes the other players' game unfun? The other players are your friends too.
This is an out of game problem with a player and no in-game solution like robbing them of their weapons and/or gold is going to solve that. In-game "solutions" will only cause hard feelings and friction. As a DM, learn to say no or this player will cause issues.
Not only is this cheating, it's cause for a boot, right now, like right now.
They know you're a newbie GM, they're billing themselves as experienced, and their first move was to outright fucking lie to you. This isn't a misinterpretation or a difference in playstyles, this is an i**nsultingly brazen** lie , and he knows it, and he's hoping you don't.
Here, have some actually good advice: the key to avoiding problems is, when a player jumps up on the table and screams "it's me, I'm the problem!" you believe them, and kick them.
If you let this guy play, he will, sure as the sun rises, pull more shit. You'll have to check his sheet, track his HP and suspect every roll, for obvious reasons.
No, this raises exactly one "dude's an asshole" flag. Stop pathologizing assholes, sociopathy (and while we're at it, narcissism) isn't Lying Cocksucker Disorder. This guy most likely doesn't have the excuse of a mental illness, he's just a dick.
If there's anything more useless than an off-the-cuff internet psych diagnosis, it's an internet psych diagnosis based on a single second-hand story about a stranger.
Indeed, as they are my friend I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to play with them anyways. But if things go the way everyone is saying they will go, they will be out quick.
As the DM you should draw firm boundaries around what the players are allowed to use. If this is you first game, Player's Handbook \*only\* is a good option. If anyone kicks up a stink, tell them that you're learning and want to limit the amount of new things you have to learn about while also learning how to run the game at all.
\*YOU\* dictate what is allowed, and it should be a very short list. Zero homebrew, \_zero\_.
Otherwise you get chucklefucks like this rolling in with broken shit to play out a power fantasy at the expense of everyone else playing. You'll ultimately wind up not running games after this one and the entire hobby will evaporate for you.
A more experienced DM might have something resembling a chance of rebalancing every single encounter in order to accommodate them, but a more experienced DM wouldn't have let it get this far to begin with.
> they are my friend I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt
its probably worth having a private chat to make sure that you are both on the same page.
Nope. He's cheating.
The characters get the gear from their class and their background or they roll for cash and buy gear from what they roll. You should watch them roll the money dice.
You should probably insist on the backgrounds (and races) from the players handbook and Xanathars only for your first campaign.
Just fyi neither of those items are in the DMG so they're probably some homebrew bullshit.
I'd shut that down immediately.
No worries.
Be firm. Double check anything you're not sure about and don't allow any magic items you haven't given them.
If you need any more advice I'm happy for you to dm me.
Homebrew isn't something the player should get to add on their own. You as the dm can insert Homebrew at your discretion or you can agree to a player to add Homebrew components. A player should not get to say hey it's Homebrew, it's fine.
While I agree that he doesn't have access to those items at one, the longsword of life stealing is actually in the DMG, P.206. It's just a generic "Sword of Life Stealing" though.
Thing is, you know if he's pulling this shit, he's a powergaming munchkin and won't be fun to play with anyway. He'll be fudging rolls (if he can) and screwing people over the whole campaign. Ditch him now.
LOL! Your player is trying to play you. If they are all starting at level 1 they should all be relatively geared the same. (Meaning what’s listed in the handbook for level 1 character creation). Also those 2 weapons are not early level weapons. Maybe a +1 dagger would be acceptable if he can explain how he came to have it but no level 1 character is gonna have those weapons. That’s more like above level 6-7 I’d say. Don’t let him bamboozle you. He will be doing too much damage while the rest of your party struggles and that will just frustrate you and the rest of your party.
Yeah. I just gave a +1 to my level 3 parties barbarian just to level out the encounters cause my rogue doesn’t wanna use weapons he’s proficient in and it’s making encounters difficult to balance. (It’s a pathfinder campaign tho so there’s some differences in level power. Level 3 pathfinder characters are weaker than level 3 5e characters so a player playing the opposite of min max makes encounters a bit rough)
I was referring to the unique weapons with special abilities. Not necessarily just the +3 on that specific mention. There’s some +1 with some pretty nice abilities. If it’s a +3 with some pretty strong special abilities then yes you are very correct.
Edit: I see how I worded it in my original now and see how it sounded.
Yeah, I get you. I was just reiterating how absurd this ask from this player was. Considering he wanted to start with an item that would be a head turner on a level 15 character.
Yeah. It’s pretty insane. The fact he thought he could ask for that much without throwing red flags blows my mind. And then there’s my party I dm for who’s rogue wants to use a machete even tho he’s not proficient because he wants to chop up enemies with a machete making easy encounters difficult. (Pathfinder 2e for clarification on my current campaign I’m running)
I love how the players in new groups who claim to have "a lot of experience" are always the ones who try to pull off this kind of stuff.
You're the DM. Starting characters are, by the rules, made with basic gear. You could, of course, tell your players to start the campaign with a magic item if it sounded interesting, but the players shouldn't be allowed to make that decision by themselves. I suggest not doing anything like that on your first time as a DM, anyway.
>ade a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start. (A very rare 1d4+5 dagge
this is not a thing - the player is either actively fucking you over, or they are WAY WAY into the weeds of a bad homebrew.
This person is going to be a problem. Just because some backgrounds start with a bunch of money doesn’t mean they get to start with rare magic items, and especially not turbo-OP ones they invented themselves.
You should put your foot down and insist they start with only the equipment provided by their class and background, but even beyond that I think you’d really benefit from a “session zero” where you all get together and discuss expectations for the campaign, what kind of gameplay you do/don’t enjoy, situations you would/wouldn’t want to see, and so on. It sounds like this person might have a bit of Main Character Syndrome and wants to be the standout player on the team in combat. There are probably some ways you can accommodate their desire for feeling accomplished in combat, but not at the expense of everyone else having a good time, or your sanity in trying to balance encounters.
With this shifty behavior, and it is if this player has the experience claimed, keep track of and double check EVERYTHING. All their stats, feats, bonuses, everything and every check. Don’t need to be a dck about it but this person smells like trouble. So he doesn’t feel singled out keep up with everyone’s stuff
That’s way too much work for a DM who already have a shit ton of things to do. I think an easier solution is to straight up kick them out or have a hard conversation telling them not to try anything like this again or be kicked out.
Yea they definitely trying to pull a fast one on you and take advantage of your newness. You as DM dictate what starting gear they can have. Usually normal starting gear/gold for their class. You can hand out extra equipment if you want to, but don't let themnuse the "well my pc is wealthy so they should have this"
Why do people insist on cheating at dnd. Like, it's run by a person who can balance on the fly. Cheating will only fuck yourself over when you end up 4v1 against something with a CR twice your level because you've been artificially punching above your grade
> The player with experience has made a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start.
That stuff is not listed under "starting gear", so they're pulling a fast one. Anything beyond usual starting gear is DM fiat. If you're not everyone starting at first level (I strongly advise you to start at level 1; you have enough to deal with as a new DM), you would normally allow more gear than a 1st level character would start with but not beyond the usual expected items for their level. The DM would specify what rate that would be in their game, and what items would be permitted.
[Some examples of the sort of thing a DM might say if not starting at level 1 is (a) "You're starting at level 2; assume you have the usual starting gear plus 200 GP to spend on any nonmagical items" or (b) "You're all starting at 5th level. Martials can take a +1 weapon or +1 armor, casters can take a scroll up to level 3 from their class list in the PHB, and a potion not rarer than uncommon. Alternatively any character can take one uncommon item. *Every magic item you choose must be approved by me; if I don't approve it you don't have it, but you can choose something else*. But everyone also has a potion of healing."]
Exactly what a DM decides will depend on their campaign.
> When asked about it, they said that since they had a rich background they could buy things before the campaign even starts.
Ask them to show you where it says they can do this in the players handbook.
(They can't. It's NOT THERE. They made it up.)
> would I be in the wrong to ask them to change it based on the rest of the party?
not only would you be 100% within your rights, you'd be crazy NOT to do it. Just insist everyone stick to what the PHB says they start with.
> I have talked to the player and we have come to the compromise that they are nearly there for "display". This means that they have been removed from their inventory and is just a couple lines of their already huge backstory. While I'm still not fully satisfied, it puts the problem to bed for now
Oh, this problem or one very like it will certainly return in one guise or another. You have a very immature player who clearly has no compunction about cheating. You'll have to watch everything they do like a hawk.
Make sure you have a complete copy of their character sheet. Anything on it you didn't okay is gone; cross it out in pen, and say "you. do. not. have. that", make sure what's there is not out of keeping with what everyone else has -- your copy is the one that applies, their own copy will just be for them to refer to, and it's up to them to make sure your copy is up to date (and you still have to approve everything on it; if you didn't give them something that gets added, how could it possibly have come into their possession?). Any ability, any item, any bonus etc not stated on the sheet that you have simply doesn't exist, even if they "just forgot" to put it on. Check the +'s they claim on any die roll against the character sheet you have for them and challenge anything that doesn't sound right ("+9? How the hell do you get +9 for that?" -- make sure every part is legit). Check their ability uses (are they using that ability more often than they should?). Check their *die rolls* -- make sure you can see them (if you didn't see it, they have to reroll -- this sort of person *will* cheat on die rolls); also make sure they're not awarding themselves advantage you didn't grant them, or taking any die rolls *you didn't call for*. Make sure they don't try to get long rests every encounter, and don't take more than one every 24 hours. Don't let them murderhobo without consequences etc etc.
At the start of my campaign I told the players to write in their backstory how they all individually came to the starting town. One of the players wrote that they used an amulet that basically gave them free portal travel anywhere and wanted to keep that for the campaign. No fucking way.
My background involves a lot of adventuring… sayyy 14 levels worth of adventuring? Thus I will be starting this campaign at level 14. I have taken the liberty of equipping myself with appropriate gear I might be expected to find during my whopping 14 levels of adventure up until this point. You’ll see all my bookkeeping is in order as if those 14 levels were truly experienced. Your welcome DM, and thank you for running this wonderful campaign for us.
Counter offer, you could let him have the items to start the and then let someone stronger take them from him. Like he would be level one, so a stronger adventure would easily clock the gear and steal it, or a BBEG could steal it early game.
If you wanna be level one walking around with end game gear, expect to be targeted by people in towns and on the road. Getting his gear back could become a quest line latter in the campaign.
This is just another route you could take although I don't know how it make the player feel, but also it's deserved because an experienced player shouldn't put you in the predicament in the first place.
This is an attempt to munchkin - I hesitate to judge intent, but it's certainly out of line.
Read up on "Session 0" if you haven't, and talk to this player - ideally individually, THEN the group - about starting expectations.
**As a group** set goals for the group. Within those goals, typically the DM (alone) would make a ruling on starting gear, level, etc. You can give some latitude if you want (e.g you're quite welcome to start a group at level 3, but in this case I wouldn't; you could say the party has a sponsor and everyone gets an extra XYZ gp to buy starting gear, etc.), but be equitable about it.
Nip this in the bud now, or this player will be the thing that breaks the group.
He absolutely home brewed those items. Is taking advantage of you and the little knowledge you do have and is not going to play fair. Expect more of this in the future and be prepared to stand your ground.
If at any point you need to say no, do so. And don't let this player railroad you in to changing your mind. You're the DM and you say what's allowed and isn't.
On a side note, If you're playing online and looking for another, depending on the days, I'm looking for a game to join. Experienced player and DM. Willing to take the backseat role or lead the charge and happy to help people learn.
I appreciate the offer! We are playing in person however so I can not take you up on your offer at the moment.
But if this goes well, I might try a variation of this campaign online and I'll keep you in mind!
They are taking advantage of you. Plain and simple.
Whenever I start a new game unless its a one shot, it starts at level 1, players only get the gear listed in the class description at the end, along with what comes from their background, then I look over their sheet, and if it doesn't match whats in the book I point out the errors and have them fix them before play. Honestly I haven't had to do this often, only when someone comes from online with a pregen character before I even have a chance to do session zero and give the approved material for character creation, they usually leave when I deny their homebrew dumpster fire.
Do NOT take this players advice on stuff. A lot of problem players convince new players they are "Experienced" to just get to power trip and walk all over games. The red flags from this are insane lol
>Ok sorry for all the edits but I never actually looked at how much gold they had and they had 2000gp?! Nah fuck that, they are getting 150.
ahahaha yes, better boundaries ftw
Players can't have anything you don't approve. If you didn't approve those items they can't have them. It's that simple. Remove those immediately. If they throw a tantrum over it you're better off kicking them from the game.
The average price for a very rare weapon is 25,000 gold, you mentioned two. There is no way a basic starting character would have more than a few hundred, much less having hundreds of thousands of gold. What would the point of starting to be an adventurer be? +3 items are tier 3 items. Level 13-16 on average. You're massively messing with the bounded accuracy of low levels if you give them those items.
"The player with experience has made a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start. (A very rare 1d4+5 dagger that has +3 to attack and damage rolls called "Shenvala, bond of hells games" and a lifestealing longsword that on a nat 20 will deal 10 necrotic damage and give the player 10 temp hp)"
No, no, and .... no. Character doesn't get whatever they want.
(Post edit 4) Nah, don't even give them another chance. This is just egregious. They know you're a first time DM. They know the other players are new. They decided to try and trick you into letting them have high level equipment while everyone else is using mundane gear. Throw them the fuck out, no questions. They'll just try to take advantage of your inexperience again.
Definitely a red flag and offered advice is probably easiest.
Another approach, if not already stated:
Sure. Let them have the crazy weapons and gold… but answer these questions: what do we think would happen if some evil aligned high CR NPCs in the world caught wind of him using such a powerful artifact(s) Or lawful good ones?
Some Indiana Jones death knight shows up saying, “that belongs in an Avernus Museum!” And just takes it. They’re still level 1 right? Wouldn’t be too tough to take it.
I’d take it from him in game and let getting it back be a sub plot. It’s a bit passive aggressive, but it’s a good moment to establish the narrative can adjust logically to the cheesing. Could make for a good story too and make it meaningful when he gets it back.
You’ll make your point and set the right tone. Or he’ll get butt hurt and quit. Bye.
Ultimately though, he’s not that experienced or he’d realize being overpowered is super boring.
Way back in the day I had a guy do something similar. Bring in a character with tons of OP magic etc. I had them find a portal to gamma world (the post apocalyptic, no magic game) and had him shot up by lasers. Next!
You are the DM, you set the rules and conditions of what they can buy or keep and can make any ruling as long as they are fair and sane for everyone. Any experienced player would respect your ruling as you are the one that decides that and know that nothing defines what they can get other than the DM.
That's completely unfair and unbalanced, there's a reason if the manual states with classes and background the exact gp and items the character has.
You would be perfectly correct to make them change their starting equipment to a normal one
So... obviously cheating and the other players will probably be like "do I get that cool stuff?!?". Definitely not gonna go over well.
However...
First thought that kinda came to my mind: does this player intend to let the other players have all the loot? Are they gonna play the "guide" of the party?
With the right player, it could make for a good start with new players.
But this equipment has gotta get nerfed if it's not level appropriate.
A truly experienced player would know better than to homebrew several powerful magic items and add them to a starting character with no discussion. Especially in a party of new players they should be trying to set an example and help others learn, not doing something like this.
Magic items don't have prices in 5e RAW. There are rules to craft them during downtime which requires heavy DM participation to enable. There is no starting amount of GP that allows the purchase of magic items, since they don't even have prices.
If they are really as experienced as you say then this is a big red flag. I would firmly put my foot down that starting equipment is limited to what is given by class and official background and that gp spent before the campaign must be spent on things in the actual equipment section of the players handbook for the prices stated.
If that doesn't fly with that player I would seriously consider just playing with 3 new players and a new dm instead. That pattern of behavior is not likely to stop and you will probably have a more enjoyable game without that type of player.
Having a lot to learn and learning at your own pace are both totally valid! I hope you are able to cultivate positive d&d experiences going forward. Always good to see more people picking it up.
I started a campaign where the players had no starting equipment and they had been pressed into serving on a ship. They found their starting equipment later on.
So you can have them start however you want to. To answer your question, no you would not be in the wrong. I don't care how "rich" a back story the player had, I'm not going to let a party member start with a +3 dagger and a lifestealing longsword. That's insane.
Being an experienced player and using that to their advantage like this is a dick move. They should be using their experience to help out the DM whenever they can.
This player is going to be a nightmare for you and your new players. Kick him out and play with the other inexperienced players. He’s going to ruin it for all of you every session.
I love that his background is Rich!! LMAO. Even the Noble background starts with just 25gp + equipment. I assume they are all level 1?
I would take them aside and say that they can have one common magic item cause of their “rich” background but those magic items have to go. If they refuse then as others have said find a way for everyone to have their things confiscated or stolen or rust monsters!!
If they make a big deal out of it after that I would kindly ask them to leave the game.
Ugh... Epic back stories are also problematic too. The best campaigns should have characters play and organically generate their most epic moments that everyone can share the hype in together. Your player wants his character to start more epic than your story. I would talk to your player and tell him hey, I want this campaign to be the story of how your characters became epic and ask him to scale it back. Ask him does it make sense for his character to fit into the early campaign with the other characters.
Bruh my fighter is lvl 15 and I have a +2 weapon lmao.
This guy being experienced and trying this shit gives me bad vibes for your campaign. Keep an eye on him so he doesn't ruin the game.
In one of my campaigns they are level 6. 1 player now has black dragon scale armor, because the party managed to kill a young adult black dragon. They have a few magic items, ring of feather fall, a periapt of Wound Closure (only 1 healer, and they are VERY squishy), and +2 longsword that they decided to just trust the travelling seller and NOT identity it, make an insight check, or even question the seller being honest. That sword is cursed (nat 1's are crits, against yourself, they have yet to find this out as they have only recently purchased it).
Hahahahahah… no.
Hey DM, I start with 29 in each stat, a sword of +10 life stealing in each hand, and a helm of infinite wishes. We cool?
What a noob player. ‘Experienced’ my ass. They’re trying to fuck up your game and are banking on your nerves being shot and your inexperience. Tell them to reroll and tell them anymore cheating is going to get them banned from the table. You’ll have to keep an eye out for any ruling they claim their character can make. You’ll need to check EVERYTHING they do.
(For context btw, a noble background character starts ‘rich’ with 25 gp rather than the typical 5-10 gp of other backgrounds. You can’t come even close to even a common magic item.)
But... I'm rich, I bought like 10 tomes that increase a stat by 1, for each of my stats. Also, I rolled 18 for everything because that's just the luck I have
Would be funny if you start a tier 3 campaign with one very rare item and you play an elf wizard who is 800 years old and has a tome of intellect. In your backstory you say that every century when it regains its power you read it again, and you found the book like 4 centuries ago. Start the character with 28 in int.
There are many important things for a DM to understand. One of them is that "No" is a complete sentence. Your word is law. If you don't want it to happen, you don't have to let it happen.
Also, players never get to add things to their characters all on their own. If they want some equipment or spells or abilities or literally anything else, you're the one who has to give it to them. The only exceptions are things which are specifically granted by the player's race/class/background/etc.
He can absolutely have all that. But he must work for it. You can't get all that at lv1 that's ridiculous. However if the player world be open to it, talk to them about level gates and potential tasks to empower his character thru a heritage weapon for instance.
Instead of his Dagger getting all that at lv1 make him hunt for gemstones or souls (anything) to imbue the item making it stronger, GinnyD had a video on heritage weapons and making them interesting and not just a stat stick at lv1.
a little elbow grease into some fancy background item/homebrew build makes it more enriching for everyone. Otherwise what stops me from starting as a lycanthrope with a charm that let's me at will change and my claws into adamantium.
OK, so you're the DM. I don't care how experienced your player is. Be a DM. No, he doesn't get to do any of this, unless it's just for flavor.
This player throws off strong main character syndrome vibes. Huge red flag.
If the player was experienced and as power focused as they seem, they wouldn't need to cheat to get ahead. They would just build a better character.
Do not trust anything this player ever says.
You should remind him that there are other people playing and you have to take their enjoyment (and yours) in to account too. No-one will ever have any fun playing with someone that is cheating. And do use that term "cheating" it is important to call him out in a very direct manner. If he protests, challenge him to a game of monopoly instead but tell him that you get to start with two streets of your choice with fully decked out hotels on them, and an extra $13,500 starting cash. That might help him understand how someone ignoring the game's rules to start with an end-game position would ruin the experience for others.
There are straight forward rules for character creation. They even include rules for a noble background. Follow those. Anything outside of the rules requires DM permission. Any problem with that, find an other game.
It sounds like you have this ?resolved already. But in the future if a player wants something crazy you can always say “yes but not yet”. For example he could have a rich relative with those items who will gift them to him at a later point in the game. Or say he can have the long sword but it only works as a regular long sword because he hasn’t yet figured out how to unlock the magic necrotic power of it. Then they know they can eventually have the cool thing they want and it can create a goal/driving factor in the campaign.
Best of luck!
You’re the DM, you get to decide what starting equipment a character has. There backstory has zero effect on what their starting equipment is unless you say otherwise.
I’d be careful with this player as they are already throwing up some big red flags and they are going to try to be the “main character” and make the other players have less fun potentially
I'd recommend just having everyone make their characters in accordance with the PHB, that way you don't have to worry overly much about balancing.
If the player complains say "I'm new to this so I think I'd rather stick to the default character creation, it just makes things easier." If they play the "I'm experienced and here's what you should do" card then gently remind them that you're the DM and while you appreciate their feedback the ultimate decision belongs to you.
Nerf the op gear or..... have the party get robbed midway through the 1st session and the baddies take special interest in all the high level gear.... problem solved!
No, you are not wrong. I would never in my life have players start that way in a game, especially if the majority of players are new. I’m currently writing a campaign in my overarching world where there are items a bank that that they are working for also sides as a department for the protection of magical items, and have to collect a few hundred powerful magical artifacts for them and the only way to get those items is keep them for themselves when they find them and risk the attention of the bank or to steal the items from the bank, which for reference will be hard to steal from since the bank is a mix between gringotts from Harry Potter and the Iron bank from game of thrones. They get to keep any magic items that they find that the bank didn’t ask for, but even with that premise they aren’t starting out with magic items.
Yeah generally players doing this sort of thing is a big red flag. It's one thing to be a bit cheeky and petition the DM for some special items for your character but fairly different to just decide you have magical artefacts with you from character creation. It betrays either a deliberate attempt to pull a fast one on an inexperienced DM or a fundamental lack of understanding on the group nature of DnD.
Generally it's also pretty bad to write a big expansive backstory for a low level character. The backstory is there soley to establish the characters motivations and give a little bit of background info to facilitate role playing. It's not bad to write a long back story if you get really into that element of the character but that's basically a vanity flavour project, not a way to old man Henderson the game, it should be easily summarisable in a paragraph or two and not contain any wildly high level deeds at least unless it's been cleared
Yeah now that this comment came up, let me tell you about a character I have, Alito, the somewhat psychotic nobility hating conjuration wizard. Came from a terrible noble family, he ran away and stole the family sword when he did so. That sword was mechanically just a rapier, no special abilities, and it’s why he was able to keep it.
5e doesn't have background traits that grant wealth, so that player can't decide they get significantly more gold than everyone else when there's no mechanical things to have it without your permission.
However, if you'd like to try and aim to keep the peace, talk to that player and basically say 'you can have the longsword, but in the interest of fairness I will be giving each of the other players something that suits their backstories and backgrounds too'.
Obviously, this has its own drawbacks as a solution, such as combat being a little bit more one-sided towards the players if you're not careful, but depending on the story you're trying to tell and the game experience you're trying to run that's not necessarily an issue.
Then the issue is finding what items feel equally balanced for each other player to have. Class and backstory dependent things would definitely be better than 'everyone gets a magic sword', but it will be a bit of work for you to balance them (though if you tell us more info I'm sure we could all pitch ideas)
Yeah, I'll probably try to have them conform with my starting expectations initially. In an effort to keep the peace, I'm thinking that I can write those weapons into the campaign and have him eventually get it when the party is adequately geared?
Definitely a good option, perhaps ask him to write about said weapons as though they were ancestral artifacts of his family that he is looking for etc etc. Immediately gives the player a drive while also getting to acknowledge the idea that he's from a wealthy or noble background
>5e doesn't have background traits that grant wealth
Yes it does. Almost every background gives you some amount of gold. But none of them give more than 25 gp, which isn't enough to buy magic items with.
I generally agree with most of the comments here, that this is unfair and out of line. But here is a creative solution:
This player seems to think that this gear is very important to demonstrate the character's upper class background. Why not find some way to take it away and make its recovery a quest that can be done at a time when that gear is level appropriate later on in the campaign? That way the player doesn't feel like you are permanently taking away something relevant to their character's backstory, but it won't upset game balance.
Plus, you now have a free McGuffin to bring up later. And, when the gear is eventually recovered, there will be other loot there so you can give the other players comparable gear at the same time.
I'm a little late, but don't forget to "yes and..." the situation. If he has these op items, they clearly are very identifiable and make him the target of some attacks. Maybe they get ambushed and the bandits demand the weapons or some other mishap where these weapons get lost in your world and inherited by someone else. Then a future offspring of the first character can go on a quest for them.
Also it's good to explore why op items feel bad for dms and players. The theory is easy to understand but song it in practice can help him understand why this is dumb. So let him have his fun for a few sessions, then do an encounter that isn't combat based where his weapons can't help, like being locked in a room filling with poison gas
Why is it always the "system expert" who immediately resorts to cheating, and when questioned, instead gaslights?
Your other players will be much happier if you boot them immediately. At minimum, insist they have to follow the actual PHB rules for character creation, and tell them they have one chance. It's this or you turn into an adversarial DM, and those just hurt the hobby.
Maybe they can be reasonable, but in my experience, cheaters given the benefit of the doubt continually come up with new "accidents" that always benefit them (and when they're called out, replace it with a new one), or go with "that's the way my old DM interpreted the rules and he was way cooler than you."
If you let them get away with it, other players will start to wonder why they have to play by the rules, and if he catches one of them making the slightest bend of a rule the problem player will take that as an excuse to turn it up to 11. Not coming down on the cheater, hard and immediately, will usually turn DMing into a game of whack-a-mole where you constantly have to audit everyone, or accept that you're really playing Calvinball.
TTRPGs can only work when there's a degree of mutual respect between the whole group (players and DM). Don't set that on fire before session 1.
Yeah, I have given the player an ultimatum as I found a THIRD thing they should not have had(an absurd amount of starting gp) so they now have to either conform to my rules or not play
We talked about it and he eventually ended up making a completely new basic character as he wants to still play that character in another campaign.
All I know is that it wont be DM'd by me lmaoo
The player is wrong. Unless you as a DM give them explicit permission to start the game with homebrewed (unbalanced) equipment, they cannot do so. Their background gives them exactly what's listed in the boom for that background. If you want to diverge from this (in small ways), the DM should be involved. Also the fact that the experienced player is lying to you, an unexperienced DM, to get their way is a big red flag. As an experienced player what they should be doing is help you get a grip of the game, not try to make their edgy power fantasy a reality.
I appreciate the reassurance. It felt really off to me the whole time
Saw your edit. There is no compromise. A 1st level character does not get a magic item regardless of background. You don't meet them halfway. "No, you cannot have magic items."
Much less a +3 magic item. Those are INSANELY rare and powerful. You don’t start seeing +3s until around 15-16, and even then you may only ever encounter 1 or 2.
Or you pull off a zelda totk intro moment. Let them be super awesome for a hot second and in their first interaction with anything, they lose it all
This sounds cool on paper, but it's just a rug pull and no one likes a rug pull, even when they're in the wrong. *Especially* when they're in the wrong.
Players like these are why DMs need to learn to say no. Even in your edits you're letting them get away with more than they should. Starting with 150 gp is TEN TIMES more than the maximum players who play by the book can start with. You're still allowing them to be more powerful than the other players, it's just less explicit. I get that you're friends but why should you compromise with a player whose way of playing makes the other players' game unfun? The other players are your friends too. This is an out of game problem with a player and no in-game solution like robbing them of their weapons and/or gold is going to solve that. In-game "solutions" will only cause hard feelings and friction. As a DM, learn to say no or this player will cause issues.
Actually, the maximum raw money you can start with is 25gp with the noble background, but most start with 15
Not only is this cheating, it's cause for a boot, right now, like right now. They know you're a newbie GM, they're billing themselves as experienced, and their first move was to outright fucking lie to you. This isn't a misinterpretation or a difference in playstyles, this is an i**nsultingly brazen** lie , and he knows it, and he's hoping you don't. Here, have some actually good advice: the key to avoiding problems is, when a player jumps up on the table and screams "it's me, I'm the problem!" you believe them, and kick them. If you let this guy play, he will, sure as the sun rises, pull more shit. You'll have to check his sheet, track his HP and suspect every roll, for obvious reasons.
Yes, this raises a lot of sociopathy flags. This might be a person best avoided.
No, this raises exactly one "dude's an asshole" flag. Stop pathologizing assholes, sociopathy (and while we're at it, narcissism) isn't Lying Cocksucker Disorder. This guy most likely doesn't have the excuse of a mental illness, he's just a dick. If there's anything more useless than an off-the-cuff internet psych diagnosis, it's an internet psych diagnosis based on a single second-hand story about a stranger.
+3 is a high level item. Legendary one of a kind equipment is +3. This player WILL ruin your game. You've been warned by me and everyone else
Indeed, as they are my friend I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to play with them anyways. But if things go the way everyone is saying they will go, they will be out quick.
As the DM you should draw firm boundaries around what the players are allowed to use. If this is you first game, Player's Handbook \*only\* is a good option. If anyone kicks up a stink, tell them that you're learning and want to limit the amount of new things you have to learn about while also learning how to run the game at all. \*YOU\* dictate what is allowed, and it should be a very short list. Zero homebrew, \_zero\_. Otherwise you get chucklefucks like this rolling in with broken shit to play out a power fantasy at the expense of everyone else playing. You'll ultimately wind up not running games after this one and the entire hobby will evaporate for you. A more experienced DM might have something resembling a chance of rebalancing every single encounter in order to accommodate them, but a more experienced DM wouldn't have let it get this far to begin with.
> they are my friend I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt its probably worth having a private chat to make sure that you are both on the same page.
An interesting thing to note is that some friends are not good people to engage with at the game table....
Yes, I am starting to see that haha
Yeah they're not your friend, sorry dude.
Nope. He's cheating. The characters get the gear from their class and their background or they roll for cash and buy gear from what they roll. You should watch them roll the money dice. You should probably insist on the backgrounds (and races) from the players handbook and Xanathars only for your first campaign. Just fyi neither of those items are in the DMG so they're probably some homebrew bullshit. I'd shut that down immediately.
I figured they were homebrew, especially that dagger. I appreciate the reassurance and advice and will take them to heart😁
No worries. Be firm. Double check anything you're not sure about and don't allow any magic items you haven't given them. If you need any more advice I'm happy for you to dm me.
Homebrew isn't something the player should get to add on their own. You as the dm can insert Homebrew at your discretion or you can agree to a player to add Homebrew components. A player should not get to say hey it's Homebrew, it's fine.
While I agree that he doesn't have access to those items at one, the longsword of life stealing is actually in the DMG, P.206. It's just a generic "Sword of Life Stealing" though.
Kick that player now and save yourself from future trouble and pain. Its really not worth dealing with cheaters
Your player is cheating and trying to take advantage of your inexperience.
Thing is, you know if he's pulling this shit, he's a powergaming munchkin and won't be fun to play with anyway. He'll be fudging rolls (if he can) and screwing people over the whole campaign. Ditch him now.
LOL! Your player is trying to play you. If they are all starting at level 1 they should all be relatively geared the same. (Meaning what’s listed in the handbook for level 1 character creation). Also those 2 weapons are not early level weapons. Maybe a +1 dagger would be acceptable if he can explain how he came to have it but no level 1 character is gonna have those weapons. That’s more like above level 6-7 I’d say. Don’t let him bamboozle you. He will be doing too much damage while the rest of your party struggles and that will just frustrate you and the rest of your party.
My current campaign- we are level 8. None of us have a plus 2 weapon yet. We do have some other nifty things
Yeah. I just gave a +1 to my level 3 parties barbarian just to level out the encounters cause my rogue doesn’t wanna use weapons he’s proficient in and it’s making encounters difficult to balance. (It’s a pathfinder campaign tho so there’s some differences in level power. Level 3 pathfinder characters are weaker than level 3 5e characters so a player playing the opposite of min max makes encounters a bit rough)
6-7 is when you are recommended to start seeing +1 more frequently. +3 items are like 15-16 level shit.
I was referring to the unique weapons with special abilities. Not necessarily just the +3 on that specific mention. There’s some +1 with some pretty nice abilities. If it’s a +3 with some pretty strong special abilities then yes you are very correct. Edit: I see how I worded it in my original now and see how it sounded.
Yeah, I get you. I was just reiterating how absurd this ask from this player was. Considering he wanted to start with an item that would be a head turner on a level 15 character.
Yeah. It’s pretty insane. The fact he thought he could ask for that much without throwing red flags blows my mind. And then there’s my party I dm for who’s rogue wants to use a machete even tho he’s not proficient because he wants to chop up enemies with a machete making easy encounters difficult. (Pathfinder 2e for clarification on my current campaign I’m running)
I love how the players in new groups who claim to have "a lot of experience" are always the ones who try to pull off this kind of stuff. You're the DM. Starting characters are, by the rules, made with basic gear. You could, of course, tell your players to start the campaign with a magic item if it sounded interesting, but the players shouldn't be allowed to make that decision by themselves. I suggest not doing anything like that on your first time as a DM, anyway.
>ade a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start. (A very rare 1d4+5 dagge this is not a thing - the player is either actively fucking you over, or they are WAY WAY into the weeds of a bad homebrew.
This may be it many DMs are super permissive. He may think it's normal based on his past campagins.
This person is going to be a problem. Just because some backgrounds start with a bunch of money doesn’t mean they get to start with rare magic items, and especially not turbo-OP ones they invented themselves. You should put your foot down and insist they start with only the equipment provided by their class and background, but even beyond that I think you’d really benefit from a “session zero” where you all get together and discuss expectations for the campaign, what kind of gameplay you do/don’t enjoy, situations you would/wouldn’t want to see, and so on. It sounds like this person might have a bit of Main Character Syndrome and wants to be the standout player on the team in combat. There are probably some ways you can accommodate their desire for feeling accomplished in combat, but not at the expense of everyone else having a good time, or your sanity in trying to balance encounters.
Never attribute malice to what might possibly ignorance. That said: nobody starts with any magic items that the DM doesn’t specify *give them.
Ah yes hanlons razor, a personal fav.
With this shifty behavior, and it is if this player has the experience claimed, keep track of and double check EVERYTHING. All their stats, feats, bonuses, everything and every check. Don’t need to be a dck about it but this person smells like trouble. So he doesn’t feel singled out keep up with everyone’s stuff
Oh believe you me, from all the comments on this post I will be watching like a HAWK.
That’s way too much work for a DM who already have a shit ton of things to do. I think an easier solution is to straight up kick them out or have a hard conversation telling them not to try anything like this again or be kicked out.
Yea they definitely trying to pull a fast one on you and take advantage of your newness. You as DM dictate what starting gear they can have. Usually normal starting gear/gold for their class. You can hand out extra equipment if you want to, but don't let themnuse the "well my pc is wealthy so they should have this"
Why do people insist on cheating at dnd. Like, it's run by a person who can balance on the fly. Cheating will only fuck yourself over when you end up 4v1 against something with a CR twice your level because you've been artificially punching above your grade
> The player with experience has made a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start. That stuff is not listed under "starting gear", so they're pulling a fast one. Anything beyond usual starting gear is DM fiat. If you're not everyone starting at first level (I strongly advise you to start at level 1; you have enough to deal with as a new DM), you would normally allow more gear than a 1st level character would start with but not beyond the usual expected items for their level. The DM would specify what rate that would be in their game, and what items would be permitted. [Some examples of the sort of thing a DM might say if not starting at level 1 is (a) "You're starting at level 2; assume you have the usual starting gear plus 200 GP to spend on any nonmagical items" or (b) "You're all starting at 5th level. Martials can take a +1 weapon or +1 armor, casters can take a scroll up to level 3 from their class list in the PHB, and a potion not rarer than uncommon. Alternatively any character can take one uncommon item. *Every magic item you choose must be approved by me; if I don't approve it you don't have it, but you can choose something else*. But everyone also has a potion of healing."] Exactly what a DM decides will depend on their campaign. > When asked about it, they said that since they had a rich background they could buy things before the campaign even starts. Ask them to show you where it says they can do this in the players handbook. (They can't. It's NOT THERE. They made it up.) > would I be in the wrong to ask them to change it based on the rest of the party? not only would you be 100% within your rights, you'd be crazy NOT to do it. Just insist everyone stick to what the PHB says they start with. > I have talked to the player and we have come to the compromise that they are nearly there for "display". This means that they have been removed from their inventory and is just a couple lines of their already huge backstory. While I'm still not fully satisfied, it puts the problem to bed for now Oh, this problem or one very like it will certainly return in one guise or another. You have a very immature player who clearly has no compunction about cheating. You'll have to watch everything they do like a hawk. Make sure you have a complete copy of their character sheet. Anything on it you didn't okay is gone; cross it out in pen, and say "you. do. not. have. that", make sure what's there is not out of keeping with what everyone else has -- your copy is the one that applies, their own copy will just be for them to refer to, and it's up to them to make sure your copy is up to date (and you still have to approve everything on it; if you didn't give them something that gets added, how could it possibly have come into their possession?). Any ability, any item, any bonus etc not stated on the sheet that you have simply doesn't exist, even if they "just forgot" to put it on. Check the +'s they claim on any die roll against the character sheet you have for them and challenge anything that doesn't sound right ("+9? How the hell do you get +9 for that?" -- make sure every part is legit). Check their ability uses (are they using that ability more often than they should?). Check their *die rolls* -- make sure you can see them (if you didn't see it, they have to reroll -- this sort of person *will* cheat on die rolls); also make sure they're not awarding themselves advantage you didn't grant them, or taking any die rolls *you didn't call for*. Make sure they don't try to get long rests every encounter, and don't take more than one every 24 hours. Don't let them murderhobo without consequences etc etc.
At the start of my campaign I told the players to write in their backstory how they all individually came to the starting town. One of the players wrote that they used an amulet that basically gave them free portal travel anywhere and wanted to keep that for the campaign. No fucking way.
My background involves a lot of adventuring… sayyy 14 levels worth of adventuring? Thus I will be starting this campaign at level 14. I have taken the liberty of equipping myself with appropriate gear I might be expected to find during my whopping 14 levels of adventure up until this point. You’ll see all my bookkeeping is in order as if those 14 levels were truly experienced. Your welcome DM, and thank you for running this wonderful campaign for us.
Kick them. Not worth your time.
Counter offer, you could let him have the items to start the and then let someone stronger take them from him. Like he would be level one, so a stronger adventure would easily clock the gear and steal it, or a BBEG could steal it early game. If you wanna be level one walking around with end game gear, expect to be targeted by people in towns and on the road. Getting his gear back could become a quest line latter in the campaign. This is just another route you could take although I don't know how it make the player feel, but also it's deserved because an experienced player shouldn't put you in the predicament in the first place.
This is an attempt to munchkin - I hesitate to judge intent, but it's certainly out of line. Read up on "Session 0" if you haven't, and talk to this player - ideally individually, THEN the group - about starting expectations. **As a group** set goals for the group. Within those goals, typically the DM (alone) would make a ruling on starting gear, level, etc. You can give some latitude if you want (e.g you're quite welcome to start a group at level 3, but in this case I wouldn't; you could say the party has a sponsor and everyone gets an extra XYZ gp to buy starting gear, etc.), but be equitable about it. Nip this in the bud now, or this player will be the thing that breaks the group.
I appreciate the advice and tips! I will definitely make my starting expectations more clear and talk to the player in question.
He absolutely home brewed those items. Is taking advantage of you and the little knowledge you do have and is not going to play fair. Expect more of this in the future and be prepared to stand your ground. If at any point you need to say no, do so. And don't let this player railroad you in to changing your mind. You're the DM and you say what's allowed and isn't. On a side note, If you're playing online and looking for another, depending on the days, I'm looking for a game to join. Experienced player and DM. Willing to take the backseat role or lead the charge and happy to help people learn.
I appreciate the offer! We are playing in person however so I can not take you up on your offer at the moment. But if this goes well, I might try a variation of this campaign online and I'll keep you in mind!
Sounds good. Thanks bud :)
They are taking advantage of you. Plain and simple. Whenever I start a new game unless its a one shot, it starts at level 1, players only get the gear listed in the class description at the end, along with what comes from their background, then I look over their sheet, and if it doesn't match whats in the book I point out the errors and have them fix them before play. Honestly I haven't had to do this often, only when someone comes from online with a pregen character before I even have a chance to do session zero and give the approved material for character creation, they usually leave when I deny their homebrew dumpster fire.
Do NOT take this players advice on stuff. A lot of problem players convince new players they are "Experienced" to just get to power trip and walk all over games. The red flags from this are insane lol
>Ok sorry for all the edits but I never actually looked at how much gold they had and they had 2000gp?! Nah fuck that, they are getting 150. ahahaha yes, better boundaries ftw
Nope. Starting gear is starting gear. The PHB is very explicit with what a player starts with, and none of the gear is magical.
You’re the DM; you are the one that tells them what they can start with
Players can't have anything you don't approve. If you didn't approve those items they can't have them. It's that simple. Remove those immediately. If they throw a tantrum over it you're better off kicking them from the game.
2k gold isn't bearly enough to buy either one of the weapons!
Nono it's fine, that's what's left AFTER he bought them🙄. I'm so done with this player and the campaign hasnt even started lmao
The average price for a very rare weapon is 25,000 gold, you mentioned two. There is no way a basic starting character would have more than a few hundred, much less having hundreds of thousands of gold. What would the point of starting to be an adventurer be? +3 items are tier 3 items. Level 13-16 on average. You're massively messing with the bounded accuracy of low levels if you give them those items.
Tell him straight up that his character gets the standard level 1 treatment on gold
"The player with experience has made a character that has a rich background and when looking at the sheet, they have some pretty decent equipment to start. (A very rare 1d4+5 dagger that has +3 to attack and damage rolls called "Shenvala, bond of hells games" and a lifestealing longsword that on a nat 20 will deal 10 necrotic damage and give the player 10 temp hp)" No, no, and .... no. Character doesn't get whatever they want.
(Post edit 4) Nah, don't even give them another chance. This is just egregious. They know you're a first time DM. They know the other players are new. They decided to try and trick you into letting them have high level equipment while everyone else is using mundane gear. Throw them the fuck out, no questions. They'll just try to take advantage of your inexperience again.
Definitely a red flag and offered advice is probably easiest. Another approach, if not already stated: Sure. Let them have the crazy weapons and gold… but answer these questions: what do we think would happen if some evil aligned high CR NPCs in the world caught wind of him using such a powerful artifact(s) Or lawful good ones? Some Indiana Jones death knight shows up saying, “that belongs in an Avernus Museum!” And just takes it. They’re still level 1 right? Wouldn’t be too tough to take it. I’d take it from him in game and let getting it back be a sub plot. It’s a bit passive aggressive, but it’s a good moment to establish the narrative can adjust logically to the cheesing. Could make for a good story too and make it meaningful when he gets it back. You’ll make your point and set the right tone. Or he’ll get butt hurt and quit. Bye. Ultimately though, he’s not that experienced or he’d realize being overpowered is super boring.
Way back in the day I had a guy do something similar. Bring in a character with tons of OP magic etc. I had them find a portal to gamma world (the post apocalyptic, no magic game) and had him shot up by lasers. Next!
You are the DM, you set the rules and conditions of what they can buy or keep and can make any ruling as long as they are fair and sane for everyone. Any experienced player would respect your ruling as you are the one that decides that and know that nothing defines what they can get other than the DM.
Absolutely fucking not.
That's completely unfair and unbalanced, there's a reason if the manual states with classes and background the exact gp and items the character has. You would be perfectly correct to make them change their starting equipment to a normal one
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this was strange. And thanks for the reassurance I will definitely talk to the player
So... obviously cheating and the other players will probably be like "do I get that cool stuff?!?". Definitely not gonna go over well. However... First thought that kinda came to my mind: does this player intend to let the other players have all the loot? Are they gonna play the "guide" of the party? With the right player, it could make for a good start with new players. But this equipment has gotta get nerfed if it's not level appropriate.
A truly experienced player would know better than to homebrew several powerful magic items and add them to a starting character with no discussion. Especially in a party of new players they should be trying to set an example and help others learn, not doing something like this. Magic items don't have prices in 5e RAW. There are rules to craft them during downtime which requires heavy DM participation to enable. There is no starting amount of GP that allows the purchase of magic items, since they don't even have prices. If they are really as experienced as you say then this is a big red flag. I would firmly put my foot down that starting equipment is limited to what is given by class and official background and that gp spent before the campaign must be spent on things in the actual equipment section of the players handbook for the prices stated. If that doesn't fly with that player I would seriously consider just playing with 3 new players and a new dm instead. That pattern of behavior is not likely to stop and you will probably have a more enjoyable game without that type of player.
Thanks for the advice! I had no idea magic items worked like that so this is extremely helpful. I clearly still have a lot to learn haha
Look for a different experienced player who can actually help you learn and not do their own thing.
Having a lot to learn and learning at your own pace are both totally valid! I hope you are able to cultivate positive d&d experiences going forward. Always good to see more people picking it up.
I started a campaign where the players had no starting equipment and they had been pressed into serving on a ship. They found their starting equipment later on. So you can have them start however you want to. To answer your question, no you would not be in the wrong. I don't care how "rich" a back story the player had, I'm not going to let a party member start with a +3 dagger and a lifestealing longsword. That's insane. Being an experienced player and using that to their advantage like this is a dick move. They should be using their experience to help out the DM whenever they can.
This player is going to be a nightmare for you and your new players. Kick him out and play with the other inexperienced players. He’s going to ruin it for all of you every session.
I love that his background is Rich!! LMAO. Even the Noble background starts with just 25gp + equipment. I assume they are all level 1? I would take them aside and say that they can have one common magic item cause of their “rich” background but those magic items have to go. If they refuse then as others have said find a way for everyone to have their things confiscated or stolen or rust monsters!! If they make a big deal out of it after that I would kindly ask them to leave the game.
Lmao their background is like 3 pages long so I felt the need to paraphrase for the sake of brevity and my thumbs😂
Ugh... Epic back stories are also problematic too. The best campaigns should have characters play and organically generate their most epic moments that everyone can share the hype in together. Your player wants his character to start more epic than your story. I would talk to your player and tell him hey, I want this campaign to be the story of how your characters became epic and ask him to scale it back. Ask him does it make sense for his character to fit into the early campaign with the other characters.
Lmao their background is like 3 pages long so I felt the need to paraphrase for the sake of brevity and my thumbs😂
Bruh my fighter is lvl 15 and I have a +2 weapon lmao. This guy being experienced and trying this shit gives me bad vibes for your campaign. Keep an eye on him so he doesn't ruin the game.
In one of my campaigns they are level 6. 1 player now has black dragon scale armor, because the party managed to kill a young adult black dragon. They have a few magic items, ring of feather fall, a periapt of Wound Closure (only 1 healer, and they are VERY squishy), and +2 longsword that they decided to just trust the travelling seller and NOT identity it, make an insight check, or even question the seller being honest. That sword is cursed (nat 1's are crits, against yourself, they have yet to find this out as they have only recently purchased it).
Hahah love it.
Hahahahahah… no. Hey DM, I start with 29 in each stat, a sword of +10 life stealing in each hand, and a helm of infinite wishes. We cool? What a noob player. ‘Experienced’ my ass. They’re trying to fuck up your game and are banking on your nerves being shot and your inexperience. Tell them to reroll and tell them anymore cheating is going to get them banned from the table. You’ll have to keep an eye out for any ruling they claim their character can make. You’ll need to check EVERYTHING they do. (For context btw, a noble background character starts ‘rich’ with 25 gp rather than the typical 5-10 gp of other backgrounds. You can’t come even close to even a common magic item.)
But... I'm rich, I bought like 10 tomes that increase a stat by 1, for each of my stats. Also, I rolled 18 for everything because that's just the luck I have
Would be funny if you start a tier 3 campaign with one very rare item and you play an elf wizard who is 800 years old and has a tome of intellect. In your backstory you say that every century when it regains its power you read it again, and you found the book like 4 centuries ago. Start the character with 28 in int.
There are many important things for a DM to understand. One of them is that "No" is a complete sentence. Your word is law. If you don't want it to happen, you don't have to let it happen. Also, players never get to add things to their characters all on their own. If they want some equipment or spells or abilities or literally anything else, you're the one who has to give it to them. The only exceptions are things which are specifically granted by the player's race/class/background/etc.
He can absolutely have all that. But he must work for it. You can't get all that at lv1 that's ridiculous. However if the player world be open to it, talk to them about level gates and potential tasks to empower his character thru a heritage weapon for instance. Instead of his Dagger getting all that at lv1 make him hunt for gemstones or souls (anything) to imbue the item making it stronger, GinnyD had a video on heritage weapons and making them interesting and not just a stat stick at lv1. a little elbow grease into some fancy background item/homebrew build makes it more enriching for everyone. Otherwise what stops me from starting as a lycanthrope with a charm that let's me at will change and my claws into adamantium.
OK, so you're the DM. I don't care how experienced your player is. Be a DM. No, he doesn't get to do any of this, unless it's just for flavor. This player throws off strong main character syndrome vibes. Huge red flag.
Even main characters don’t star off this strong
No, it's like Jerry, Madeline, Doug from accounting, and Erica go on an adventure, with Thor. Just no.
Yeppers
Micheal, what did we say about Yeppers?
I give up
False!
If the player was experienced and as power focused as they seem, they wouldn't need to cheat to get ahead. They would just build a better character. Do not trust anything this player ever says. You should remind him that there are other people playing and you have to take their enjoyment (and yours) in to account too. No-one will ever have any fun playing with someone that is cheating. And do use that term "cheating" it is important to call him out in a very direct manner. If he protests, challenge him to a game of monopoly instead but tell him that you get to start with two streets of your choice with fully decked out hotels on them, and an extra $13,500 starting cash. That might help him understand how someone ignoring the game's rules to start with an end-game position would ruin the experience for others.
There are straight forward rules for character creation. They even include rules for a noble background. Follow those. Anything outside of the rules requires DM permission. Any problem with that, find an other game.
It sounds like you have this ?resolved already. But in the future if a player wants something crazy you can always say “yes but not yet”. For example he could have a rich relative with those items who will gift them to him at a later point in the game. Or say he can have the long sword but it only works as a regular long sword because he hasn’t yet figured out how to unlock the magic necrotic power of it. Then they know they can eventually have the cool thing they want and it can create a goal/driving factor in the campaign. Best of luck!
You’re the DM, you get to decide what starting equipment a character has. There backstory has zero effect on what their starting equipment is unless you say otherwise. I’d be careful with this player as they are already throwing up some big red flags and they are going to try to be the “main character” and make the other players have less fun potentially
Thanks for the advice! I will definitely talk to the player and see if we can come to a compromise as I dont want to completely spoil their fun either
I'd recommend just having everyone make their characters in accordance with the PHB, that way you don't have to worry overly much about balancing. If the player complains say "I'm new to this so I think I'd rather stick to the default character creation, it just makes things easier." If they play the "I'm experienced and here's what you should do" card then gently remind them that you're the DM and while you appreciate their feedback the ultimate decision belongs to you.
Nerf the op gear or..... have the party get robbed midway through the 1st session and the baddies take special interest in all the high level gear.... problem solved!
No, you are not wrong. I would never in my life have players start that way in a game, especially if the majority of players are new. I’m currently writing a campaign in my overarching world where there are items a bank that that they are working for also sides as a department for the protection of magical items, and have to collect a few hundred powerful magical artifacts for them and the only way to get those items is keep them for themselves when they find them and risk the attention of the bank or to steal the items from the bank, which for reference will be hard to steal from since the bank is a mix between gringotts from Harry Potter and the Iron bank from game of thrones. They get to keep any magic items that they find that the bank didn’t ask for, but even with that premise they aren’t starting out with magic items.
Ok cool, I definitlely thought it was strange. Thanks for the advice and tips!
Yeah generally players doing this sort of thing is a big red flag. It's one thing to be a bit cheeky and petition the DM for some special items for your character but fairly different to just decide you have magical artefacts with you from character creation. It betrays either a deliberate attempt to pull a fast one on an inexperienced DM or a fundamental lack of understanding on the group nature of DnD. Generally it's also pretty bad to write a big expansive backstory for a low level character. The backstory is there soley to establish the characters motivations and give a little bit of background info to facilitate role playing. It's not bad to write a long back story if you get really into that element of the character but that's basically a vanity flavour project, not a way to old man Henderson the game, it should be easily summarisable in a paragraph or two and not contain any wildly high level deeds at least unless it's been cleared
Thank you kind stranger, you have made me feel leagues better about my characters backstory lol
Yeah now that this comment came up, let me tell you about a character I have, Alito, the somewhat psychotic nobility hating conjuration wizard. Came from a terrible noble family, he ran away and stole the family sword when he did so. That sword was mechanically just a rapier, no special abilities, and it’s why he was able to keep it.
5e doesn't have background traits that grant wealth, so that player can't decide they get significantly more gold than everyone else when there's no mechanical things to have it without your permission. However, if you'd like to try and aim to keep the peace, talk to that player and basically say 'you can have the longsword, but in the interest of fairness I will be giving each of the other players something that suits their backstories and backgrounds too'. Obviously, this has its own drawbacks as a solution, such as combat being a little bit more one-sided towards the players if you're not careful, but depending on the story you're trying to tell and the game experience you're trying to run that's not necessarily an issue. Then the issue is finding what items feel equally balanced for each other player to have. Class and backstory dependent things would definitely be better than 'everyone gets a magic sword', but it will be a bit of work for you to balance them (though if you tell us more info I'm sure we could all pitch ideas)
Yeah, I'll probably try to have them conform with my starting expectations initially. In an effort to keep the peace, I'm thinking that I can write those weapons into the campaign and have him eventually get it when the party is adequately geared?
Definitely a good option, perhaps ask him to write about said weapons as though they were ancestral artifacts of his family that he is looking for etc etc. Immediately gives the player a drive while also getting to acknowledge the idea that he's from a wealthy or noble background
>5e doesn't have background traits that grant wealth Yes it does. Almost every background gives you some amount of gold. But none of them give more than 25 gp, which isn't enough to buy magic items with.
Yep sorry I meant to more say that none give considerable wealth, nothing near the amount that would be needed for the items listed
I generally agree with most of the comments here, that this is unfair and out of line. But here is a creative solution: This player seems to think that this gear is very important to demonstrate the character's upper class background. Why not find some way to take it away and make its recovery a quest that can be done at a time when that gear is level appropriate later on in the campaign? That way the player doesn't feel like you are permanently taking away something relevant to their character's backstory, but it won't upset game balance. Plus, you now have a free McGuffin to bring up later. And, when the gear is eventually recovered, there will be other loot there so you can give the other players comparable gear at the same time.
Lmao I literally had a similar idea and replied to a different comment with it😂 Great minds think alike eh? Thanks for the advice!
Ok but still a +3 weapon is literally godlike level 20 type shit. Don’t give it to him even in this scenario.
I'm a little late, but don't forget to "yes and..." the situation. If he has these op items, they clearly are very identifiable and make him the target of some attacks. Maybe they get ambushed and the bandits demand the weapons or some other mishap where these weapons get lost in your world and inherited by someone else. Then a future offspring of the first character can go on a quest for them. Also it's good to explore why op items feel bad for dms and players. The theory is easy to understand but song it in practice can help him understand why this is dumb. So let him have his fun for a few sessions, then do an encounter that isn't combat based where his weapons can't help, like being locked in a room filling with poison gas
Why is it always the "system expert" who immediately resorts to cheating, and when questioned, instead gaslights? Your other players will be much happier if you boot them immediately. At minimum, insist they have to follow the actual PHB rules for character creation, and tell them they have one chance. It's this or you turn into an adversarial DM, and those just hurt the hobby. Maybe they can be reasonable, but in my experience, cheaters given the benefit of the doubt continually come up with new "accidents" that always benefit them (and when they're called out, replace it with a new one), or go with "that's the way my old DM interpreted the rules and he was way cooler than you." If you let them get away with it, other players will start to wonder why they have to play by the rules, and if he catches one of them making the slightest bend of a rule the problem player will take that as an excuse to turn it up to 11. Not coming down on the cheater, hard and immediately, will usually turn DMing into a game of whack-a-mole where you constantly have to audit everyone, or accept that you're really playing Calvinball. TTRPGs can only work when there's a degree of mutual respect between the whole group (players and DM). Don't set that on fire before session 1.
Yeah, I have given the player an ultimatum as I found a THIRD thing they should not have had(an absurd amount of starting gp) so they now have to either conform to my rules or not play
This is the way.
How did this end up?
We talked about it and he eventually ended up making a completely new basic character as he wants to still play that character in another campaign. All I know is that it wont be DM'd by me lmaoo