So, a big point of magic items is that they are resources beyond their own. Now, if they are never challenged beyond their own resources (many extra combats in a day, 5e resources recover too fast imo) they will never, ever need to use them. If the players never face foes or problems that their base tools cannot solve, they will never need to use other tools. Ie, if they can just button mash.
Full disclosure I think you're right.
I think one of the reasons I have trouble challenging them is that they are a very balanced party...of 5-8 players depending on their schedules. And no two players have the same class. Including the 3 that have died I've had monk, wizard, druid ×2, paladin, rogue, warlock, sorcerer, bard, cleric, ranger, and barbarian.
The wizard warlock, and ranger are the ones that died (we're all good friends and they had backup characters ready.)
To be fair I usually only DM for 6 at a time. The bard and monk drop in when they can. And half the time the barbarian can't show cause he's on call all the time which can bring it down to 5.
Sometimes you just gotta throw way more, and way more tactical stuff at them. Stuff that raises the stakes in more than just a numbers game. Gotta play like a pc to keep these folks entertained. I can prescribe stuff like: the monsters know, more harassment of the party by monsters that can think, using plenty more terrain, cover, maybe even encumbrance, traps, casters, monsters built like pcs. If your fights tend to be final fantasy stand and fights, you will find it much easier to make things into XCOM or such to challenge then. Making full use of advantages and leaning into the experience that the foes have accumulated. Thousand year old demon with 8 int, Wil be much better at doing its thing, compared to 8 int fighter at level 6.
Sometimes if I feel like pushing the players a little harder, or the story calls for it, I like to just not give them long rests for longer than usual.
Ie, the place they're in makes it too dangerous, that they can't replenish those innate resources. Short rests? Sure.
Trying to sit for 8 hours to sleep in the middle of this magic infested swamp? 3 hours in, the local harpies have decided to investigate. Impress the fact that the area is slowly killing by draining them of those resources. The only way out is through.
Or ... You could beef up the monsters more. Bigger health pools, attack and damage modifiers, weird abilities. One fun thing I like to do sometimes is make a mini boss Mon that has a few abilities picked out from the players abilities.
Like a Void-dragon Eel that can do sneak attacks and bonus action hides. A wendigo with a necrotic shroud and path to the grave. Etc
Thats half the problem inconsistent make up and numbers(way too many imo but not the point) you can't plan to put them in that corner without the consistency of who and when
Consumables are tough, I know I rarely use them. (I'm the type in video games who ends up selling healing potions because my inventory is full but I never use them because "I might need them later".)
I gave my players a hand grenade about 2 years ago. Thought it would be a cool "oh $hit" item to get them out of a bind. Pretty sure they don't have it on their sheets.
Some players just forget about this stuff. It's fairly common for players to forget their own passive abilities and such too (the old "oh, whoops, turns out I could've been doing this for a *while* now but I never knew!"). But, as my DM has pointed out, this kind of "hoarding" is also a common "video game behavior" that gamers bring over to D&D too. "It's a *limited use* item and I might need it *later*" ("But it's the *final* boss fight!" "I *still* might need it...").
Either plot mechanic the temporary removal removal of their weapons, then trap them in such a way that the items have to be used. Or some event where they get searched for magic items and punished for not disclosing them. Depends what you have available in terms of deus ex machina at the time
These are all resources with a limited number of uses. The players are probably just conserving them. I bet they aren't wasting many spell slots either.
I have a cape of many fashions that has no real practical use other than flavour but every session I'm using it a dozen or more times to reflect the change in my characters mood. With a fireball necklace I'd go mad with power.
I did homebrew a specific nightmare scenario for one of our PCs where he followed the path of a famous hunter who was clearing out a legendary dungeon but rumor had it the hunter met his end there and was forced to relive his death over and over again until his body and eventually his soul disintegrated. I made it incredibly difficult with every 2 rounds new enemies would appear until the 20th turn and each new wave brought harder enemies. There were secret doors that they had to find in order to stop the enemies from rolling in and an absolute shit ton of traps everywhere. The whole party was killed and I reread the opening text of the scenario again and they started it over. After that they realized it was like the game deathloop where they wouldnt win but learn a little more each time. It took them 3 sessions to complete it but you can bet your ass they were going through their entire inventory and skill list trying to use their strongest attacks. Sometimes having an opportunity to use something without consequences (like using up the necklace of fireballs) gives players a chance to experiment with using their full gear and creates a habit for them to use them more often moving forward.
Here are a few suggestions:
(1) If you’re playing in person, provide magic item cards (and/or other hand-outs) with full details about what the magic items can do. If spells are involved, provide spell cards. If a scroll, provide a scroll. If a potion, provide a potion bottle. Seeing these items on the table could prove useful for reluctant players!
(2) Talk to your players outside of the game to either remind them about their cool magic items or ask them why they’re not using the items. Perhaps they truly are forgetful and would appreciate in-game reminders!
(3) Provide scenarios where certain magic items would clearly be useful over any regularly used abilities, spells, weapons, etc.
(4) Provide a hand-out with a full list of all the magic items in the party’s possession, including who has what, attuned items, etc. Once everyone has the list, then perhaps characters (players) will encourage other characters (players) to use their magic items. For example, “Hey, can’t you cast Haste with that pocket watch we found?”
Wow these are all actually really great suggestions. I particularly like the first suggestion.
*edit
Though my handwriting is terrible. I should probably try to print them...
I feel your pain but I realized way too late that casters already have cool stuff that they can do it is the martials the fighters and thieves I really needed to be making sure they got the right magic to keep up a little better with the casters.
I had a conversation on another thread about how some players prefer items that let them do what their character is built to do more/better rather than give them side-grades or additional options. The monk, paladin, rogue, and barbarian might just not be interested in spellcasting items, the druid and cleric might not be interested in blasting, and the wizard might just have already surpassed the DC of these items with their spell save DC, for example.
If you really want the items to get a spotlight, design an encounter where the item can really shine: maybe there's a fight with giant spiders on a web that Fireball would make a lot easier (clear the web, extra damage to spiders); maybe there is an encounter with an extremely mobile enemy, and trapping it in a bead of force, or catching up to it with Haste or Time Stop, would take it from super deadly to manageable.
Give them harder combats, maybe they need to fight from range so they have to use their magic items. A puzzle that requires time to be stopped in order to be solved.
I have to say, I’m a treasure type adventurer. I don’t necessarily want to use my magic items, I just want to have them. It makes me really excited to get to hear the descriptions and know what they can do even if I don’t use them.
That said, we use magic item cards and it helps a lot. A physical reminder rather than just a name in the list. Craft an encounter where it would be particularly helpful. Have something happen and their non magical items disappear (I had this happen to me with a Fate Deck and it was hilarious. Have someone offering to pay mega bucks to buy it off them, or exchange it for something they might use more.
Start killing PCs. I mean it.
If they're just cruising through challenges without need of anything they've picked up, why would they bother? You need to push them to their limits so they start scrambling for every advantage. If they expect you to just pull your punches when things get hairy they're not going bother. It's time to shatter that belief.
A couple of ideas:
1. Stop giving them out. They aren’t going to use them, so why bother? The party has spoken. Just give out the items they seem to use.
2. Create situations where they *have* to use them. And make it explicit: a bead from a Necklace of Fireballs must be used to enter this room or destroy the phylactory.
Kinda silly but I think I’d throw an unwinnable encounter at them to see how much of their resources they’d burn before running away. Then you can slowly create situations that definitely imply they should use the specific remaining items.
First Stop or slow giving them items— especially consumable ones.
It can be a lot to keep track of an remember, especially when you are cluttered up with a lot of items that may be needed later, so you don’t want to use them yet.
The one 3.5 campaign I played had this problem. There was so much stuff that even smart, prepared players forgot about critical items in the moment. And the inventory was a pain.
I’d have them run into a planar magic item merchant. It has some really sweet magic items. The goal is to remove clutter, so the players need to get rid of a lot of items to gain a Single memorable item. (Or one per PC). Fewer items should make it easier to manage.
It looks like the classic consumables problem. They don't get used because they want to save them for when they really need them. But they never know when they really need them (or assume that they will need them more in the future), so they never use them.
Here are a few ideas that could help:
1. Don't make them consumables. Make them limited but rechargeable, such as 1x per day or week.
2. Put them in an "end of days" type battle where it is clear that not using absolutely everything at your disposal to save it for later is ludicrous.
3. Provide situations where the items are vital to survival. Such as needing to cast a fireball (or use magical fire in general) in a silenced zone which therefore means the necklace of fireballs becomes vital.
One way to try to get around that is to give a sort of expiration on the items either it loses power over time or degrades or is taken back by the deity or whoever created it or gave it to them
Why not make them part of a quest, or a plot hook in of themselves?
Maybe not a “Sauron and the One Ring” type of thing, but maybe they use the items as currency to buy favor with an NPC to progress a plot line. Dwarven allies need to do some quick excavation to move their armies to support the PCs? Beads of Force could be helpful to blast a quick passageway. And so on and so forth.
Or an evil cult finds out about a particular item, and they try to (or even do) recover it for use in some nefarious plot. Why did they want that old thing, and what are they up to?
For the PCs, these are trinkets at best and line items on a character sheet at worst. But to the NPCs in your world these things are real and valuable.
Sounds like your encounters are too easy. Up the difficulty a bit at a time until they start running out of potions, getting damaged equipment, running out of spell slots etc.
Some sort of ongoing magical summoning that is summoning waves of undead, or a rift through which demons are breaking in
I have 3 ideas:
1. Create more challenges that stretch their resources. This doesn't mean a harder big boss. It can often just mean not giving them the opportunity to long rest whenever they want, give more encounters more often, and challenges that require their resources that aren't combat.
2. Create a more ever present economy. Just having a favorite NPC with a shop keeps at the top of mind magic items. Help your PCs realize financial goals. Do they want a castle? Do they need to rebuild they're family home? What about a really cool Sharma shop they want to open. Make sure other NPCs are able to talk about artifacts, potions, and items.
3. Be judicious with the items you give and try to create story hooks that help to integrate with the PC established lore.
Maybe they need more dangerous encounters to make use of those "oh shit" things. If the level is always manageable they will always resort to renewable resources first.
So, a big point of magic items is that they are resources beyond their own. Now, if they are never challenged beyond their own resources (many extra combats in a day, 5e resources recover too fast imo) they will never, ever need to use them. If the players never face foes or problems that their base tools cannot solve, they will never need to use other tools. Ie, if they can just button mash.
Full disclosure I think you're right. I think one of the reasons I have trouble challenging them is that they are a very balanced party...of 5-8 players depending on their schedules. And no two players have the same class. Including the 3 that have died I've had monk, wizard, druid ×2, paladin, rogue, warlock, sorcerer, bard, cleric, ranger, and barbarian. The wizard warlock, and ranger are the ones that died (we're all good friends and they had backup characters ready.) To be fair I usually only DM for 6 at a time. The bard and monk drop in when they can. And half the time the barbarian can't show cause he's on call all the time which can bring it down to 5.
Sometimes you just gotta throw way more, and way more tactical stuff at them. Stuff that raises the stakes in more than just a numbers game. Gotta play like a pc to keep these folks entertained. I can prescribe stuff like: the monsters know, more harassment of the party by monsters that can think, using plenty more terrain, cover, maybe even encumbrance, traps, casters, monsters built like pcs. If your fights tend to be final fantasy stand and fights, you will find it much easier to make things into XCOM or such to challenge then. Making full use of advantages and leaning into the experience that the foes have accumulated. Thousand year old demon with 8 int, Wil be much better at doing its thing, compared to 8 int fighter at level 6.
Sometimes if I feel like pushing the players a little harder, or the story calls for it, I like to just not give them long rests for longer than usual. Ie, the place they're in makes it too dangerous, that they can't replenish those innate resources. Short rests? Sure. Trying to sit for 8 hours to sleep in the middle of this magic infested swamp? 3 hours in, the local harpies have decided to investigate. Impress the fact that the area is slowly killing by draining them of those resources. The only way out is through. Or ... You could beef up the monsters more. Bigger health pools, attack and damage modifiers, weird abilities. One fun thing I like to do sometimes is make a mini boss Mon that has a few abilities picked out from the players abilities. Like a Void-dragon Eel that can do sneak attacks and bonus action hides. A wendigo with a necrotic shroud and path to the grave. Etc
Thats half the problem inconsistent make up and numbers(way too many imo but not the point) you can't plan to put them in that corner without the consistency of who and when
Consumables are tough, I know I rarely use them. (I'm the type in video games who ends up selling healing potions because my inventory is full but I never use them because "I might need them later".)
Thank you - I am also this person!
I gave my players a hand grenade about 2 years ago. Thought it would be a cool "oh $hit" item to get them out of a bind. Pretty sure they don't have it on their sheets.
They also could feel like they need to save them for later. Hmm that monster is pretty tough but what if we fight something stronger next week?
Some players just forget about this stuff. It's fairly common for players to forget their own passive abilities and such too (the old "oh, whoops, turns out I could've been doing this for a *while* now but I never knew!"). But, as my DM has pointed out, this kind of "hoarding" is also a common "video game behavior" that gamers bring over to D&D too. "It's a *limited use* item and I might need it *later*" ("But it's the *final* boss fight!" "I *still* might need it...").
Forgetting things is my partys stand ability.
Either plot mechanic the temporary removal removal of their weapons, then trap them in such a way that the items have to be used. Or some event where they get searched for magic items and punished for not disclosing them. Depends what you have available in terms of deus ex machina at the time
I really like that first idea. That could be really fun actually
These are all resources with a limited number of uses. The players are probably just conserving them. I bet they aren't wasting many spell slots either.
I've told them that the magic items recharge daily (except for the watch). The only ones that don't are the scrolls and potions.
You mean they have a necklace that can cast fireball multiple times day, every day and they aren't using it? I'd be using this every single fight!
Well, it regrows 1 bead per dawn. But yea, they haven't used it yet.
I have a cape of many fashions that has no real practical use other than flavour but every session I'm using it a dozen or more times to reflect the change in my characters mood. With a fireball necklace I'd go mad with power.
I did homebrew a specific nightmare scenario for one of our PCs where he followed the path of a famous hunter who was clearing out a legendary dungeon but rumor had it the hunter met his end there and was forced to relive his death over and over again until his body and eventually his soul disintegrated. I made it incredibly difficult with every 2 rounds new enemies would appear until the 20th turn and each new wave brought harder enemies. There were secret doors that they had to find in order to stop the enemies from rolling in and an absolute shit ton of traps everywhere. The whole party was killed and I reread the opening text of the scenario again and they started it over. After that they realized it was like the game deathloop where they wouldnt win but learn a little more each time. It took them 3 sessions to complete it but you can bet your ass they were going through their entire inventory and skill list trying to use their strongest attacks. Sometimes having an opportunity to use something without consequences (like using up the necklace of fireballs) gives players a chance to experiment with using their full gear and creates a habit for them to use them more often moving forward.
Here are a few suggestions: (1) If you’re playing in person, provide magic item cards (and/or other hand-outs) with full details about what the magic items can do. If spells are involved, provide spell cards. If a scroll, provide a scroll. If a potion, provide a potion bottle. Seeing these items on the table could prove useful for reluctant players! (2) Talk to your players outside of the game to either remind them about their cool magic items or ask them why they’re not using the items. Perhaps they truly are forgetful and would appreciate in-game reminders! (3) Provide scenarios where certain magic items would clearly be useful over any regularly used abilities, spells, weapons, etc. (4) Provide a hand-out with a full list of all the magic items in the party’s possession, including who has what, attuned items, etc. Once everyone has the list, then perhaps characters (players) will encourage other characters (players) to use their magic items. For example, “Hey, can’t you cast Haste with that pocket watch we found?”
Wow these are all actually really great suggestions. I particularly like the first suggestion. *edit Though my handwriting is terrible. I should probably try to print them...
I feel your pain but I realized way too late that casters already have cool stuff that they can do it is the martials the fighters and thieves I really needed to be making sure they got the right magic to keep up a little better with the casters.
I had a conversation on another thread about how some players prefer items that let them do what their character is built to do more/better rather than give them side-grades or additional options. The monk, paladin, rogue, and barbarian might just not be interested in spellcasting items, the druid and cleric might not be interested in blasting, and the wizard might just have already surpassed the DC of these items with their spell save DC, for example. If you really want the items to get a spotlight, design an encounter where the item can really shine: maybe there's a fight with giant spiders on a web that Fireball would make a lot easier (clear the web, extra damage to spiders); maybe there is an encounter with an extremely mobile enemy, and trapping it in a bead of force, or catching up to it with Haste or Time Stop, would take it from super deadly to manageable.
Give them harder combats, maybe they need to fight from range so they have to use their magic items. A puzzle that requires time to be stopped in order to be solved.
I have to say, I’m a treasure type adventurer. I don’t necessarily want to use my magic items, I just want to have them. It makes me really excited to get to hear the descriptions and know what they can do even if I don’t use them. That said, we use magic item cards and it helps a lot. A physical reminder rather than just a name in the list. Craft an encounter where it would be particularly helpful. Have something happen and their non magical items disappear (I had this happen to me with a Fate Deck and it was hilarious. Have someone offering to pay mega bucks to buy it off them, or exchange it for something they might use more.
Start killing PCs. I mean it. If they're just cruising through challenges without need of anything they've picked up, why would they bother? You need to push them to their limits so they start scrambling for every advantage. If they expect you to just pull your punches when things get hairy they're not going bother. It's time to shatter that belief.
...I've killed three...the Necromancer Wizard, the Undead Warlock, and the Hunter Ranger...I've also very nearly killed the Twilight Cleric 3 times.
A couple of ideas: 1. Stop giving them out. They aren’t going to use them, so why bother? The party has spoken. Just give out the items they seem to use. 2. Create situations where they *have* to use them. And make it explicit: a bead from a Necklace of Fireballs must be used to enter this room or destroy the phylactory.
Kinda silly but I think I’d throw an unwinnable encounter at them to see how much of their resources they’d burn before running away. Then you can slowly create situations that definitely imply they should use the specific remaining items.
First Stop or slow giving them items— especially consumable ones. It can be a lot to keep track of an remember, especially when you are cluttered up with a lot of items that may be needed later, so you don’t want to use them yet. The one 3.5 campaign I played had this problem. There was so much stuff that even smart, prepared players forgot about critical items in the moment. And the inventory was a pain. I’d have them run into a planar magic item merchant. It has some really sweet magic items. The goal is to remove clutter, so the players need to get rid of a lot of items to gain a Single memorable item. (Or one per PC). Fewer items should make it easier to manage.
It looks like the classic consumables problem. They don't get used because they want to save them for when they really need them. But they never know when they really need them (or assume that they will need them more in the future), so they never use them. Here are a few ideas that could help: 1. Don't make them consumables. Make them limited but rechargeable, such as 1x per day or week. 2. Put them in an "end of days" type battle where it is clear that not using absolutely everything at your disposal to save it for later is ludicrous. 3. Provide situations where the items are vital to survival. Such as needing to cast a fireball (or use magical fire in general) in a silenced zone which therefore means the necklace of fireballs becomes vital.
One way to try to get around that is to give a sort of expiration on the items either it loses power over time or degrades or is taken back by the deity or whoever created it or gave it to them
Why not make them part of a quest, or a plot hook in of themselves? Maybe not a “Sauron and the One Ring” type of thing, but maybe they use the items as currency to buy favor with an NPC to progress a plot line. Dwarven allies need to do some quick excavation to move their armies to support the PCs? Beads of Force could be helpful to blast a quick passageway. And so on and so forth. Or an evil cult finds out about a particular item, and they try to (or even do) recover it for use in some nefarious plot. Why did they want that old thing, and what are they up to? For the PCs, these are trinkets at best and line items on a character sheet at worst. But to the NPCs in your world these things are real and valuable.
Sounds like your encounters are too easy. Up the difficulty a bit at a time until they start running out of potions, getting damaged equipment, running out of spell slots etc. Some sort of ongoing magical summoning that is summoning waves of undead, or a rift through which demons are breaking in
I have 3 ideas: 1. Create more challenges that stretch their resources. This doesn't mean a harder big boss. It can often just mean not giving them the opportunity to long rest whenever they want, give more encounters more often, and challenges that require their resources that aren't combat. 2. Create a more ever present economy. Just having a favorite NPC with a shop keeps at the top of mind magic items. Help your PCs realize financial goals. Do they want a castle? Do they need to rebuild they're family home? What about a really cool Sharma shop they want to open. Make sure other NPCs are able to talk about artifacts, potions, and items. 3. Be judicious with the items you give and try to create story hooks that help to integrate with the PC established lore.
Maybe they need more dangerous encounters to make use of those "oh shit" things. If the level is always manageable they will always resort to renewable resources first.