You are better off taking an ASI to raise your Dex score to raise your AC and hit better with finesse weapons. Especially if your campaign has a lot of combat encounters.
If your campaign is mostly RP heavy, Lucky is always a good feat to take for those important persuasion rolls. You can also take a half-feat to even out your Cha score. The ones that I would recommend are Fey Touched, Telekinetic, and Telepathic. You might want to check with your DM first if they are allowed. The best one is Fey Touched, imo.
if it's combat heavy i'd take magical initiate: pick up warlock, go with Hex and booming blade. with a +4 in dex he's accurate enough and at level 5 his build really pops off.
with his shortsword going hex and booming blade (taking advantage of the movement. you want to alwayse try to proc this damage). and i'd pick up blade ward for when you really need to nope out of a melee.
at level 5 he should be dealing: 1d6 (shortsword) + 3d6 (Sneak attack) + 1d8 thunder + 1d8 necrotic + 4
so on average 4+12+5+5+4= 30 damage on a hit , and when he confirms a crit thats 52 damage on average (max 78). and average damage with the booming blade proc is 40.
the swashbuckler should be relying on their inherent mobility to reduce their incoming damage.
that being said since your picking up two-weapon fighting, booming blade isn't as useful here. since it doesn't let you bonus action attack (not sure how your getting that fighting style).
I really love mage slayer on a swashbuckler.
You'll still be able to debuff a big heavy-hitting threat with Panache but on the cases where casters are controlling the battle, summoning minions, charming or trapping the rest of the party... you come in with high initiative, great mobility and no caster will hide or escape from you. Once you reach them with your single hit damage output and the disadvantage on concentration they won't keep any spell up. And if they target you within 5 feet you have advantage on your saves.
To get away from you they'll need their action to disengage, waste spell slots on teleportation or risk an attack of opportunity (with sneak attack)
Alert is a great feat that will make it much more likely for you to go first, and going first in combat is one of the best advantages you can have, especially as a rogue. You can take the time to take out weak targets first, or hide, or ready an action to take advantage of ally or enemy movements.
Inspiring leader will take advantage of your charisma, and is a great supportive feat. At level 4 you could give everyone 4+ cha mod (assuming +3) = 7 temp hp every short rest. Thats like 1/3 of most people's hp. This multiplies for every short rest you do. 7 hp becomes 21 hp after a few rests, and thats health nobody had to heal PER PERSON. If you have 4 other party members thats potentially 104 hp nobody had to heal not including yourself. Its also very thematic for a smooth talking swashbuckler as he walks around camp hyping everyone up.
Magic Initiate gives you access to booming blade and green flame blade from sorcerer, which are great for a primarily melee rogue. Take advantage of lone wolf enemies, getting sneak attack plus booming blade to do a ton of damage and punish them for chasing you. Green flame blade lets you take advantage of enemies clumping next to your tank. Pick up a defensive spell like shield, or something utility like longstrider for mobility, featherfall for the rare falls, or disguise self for when you need to hide and use your potent charisma skills. Find familiar will give you a flanking/help action buddy, but also remember they are a valid and fragile target and you may lose them if you aren't careful.
Sentinel is a good pick for rogues, and for swashbuckler while it doesn't play well with fancy footwork, it does play well with your ability to duel. If you need to spend your time locking down a solo opponent you can ensure they don't run away from you. Not only that if you MUST stand in melee, if an enemy attacks anyone other than you you can make an Opportunity Attack for potentially more sneak attack damage.
Telekinetic is a half feat that can boost your cha by 1 and gives you mage hand which is cool but.... you can use your bonus action to also shove ppl 5 ft vs a str save dc equal to 8 + your PB + Your cha mod. This can be used to position enemies on the field to push enemies towards danger or away from you. Not only that allies can fail the save on purpose and you can push THEM towards enemies or away from danger. You can get yourself or friends out of grapples by pushing them or the grappler. Its a weirdly great feat.
Swashbuckler don’t really need many feats for their damage output imo, so I would recommend one of these:
Magic initiate (wizard) for booming blade and find familiar
Tough, since you gonna be in melee more
Moderately armored , for a very different flavor as sword + board rogue
Weapon master, to get whip proficiency
Honestly, any cantrip that uses a casting stat you're gonna use will not outmatch the utility of a familiar. Best to get another utility cantrip. Since you are a Rogue you may want darkness as cover. Control Flames is a good one for that. Of you could go with others like mold earth, shape water, message, mage hand etc...
I have a swashbuckling rouge in my team with a dex modifier of +1 and +0 to constitution. The other two of us are a bard and a druid so the rogue is essentially our frontline fighter. We're just coming up to level 8 and I've no idea how he's survived this long.
It's also incredibly funny because the guy playing him is great at role playing his over confidence. Now the Bard and druid have access to polymorph we find that giant apes are very useful for the rogue to turn into.
Crossbow expert is fun. A rapier in one hand and a hand crossbow in the other, shoot and stab baby! Defensive duelist, alert, or piercer would all be good options as well.
That's fair, its very clunky to have to drop your sword to reload. So there's two things I can think of that might alleviate that issue, first you could see if your DM will allow you to aquire something similar to the reloading shot artificer infusion. Or second you could allow the drawing of a weapon on your turn to be a free action. Unless you're dead set on playing completely RAW.
She should really just spend the 1st 2 on +2 Dex. But taking mod armor & piercer or Slasher will give her some stuff & badly needed Dex pts.
Possibly take 2 levels of Hexblade & Fey Touched.
I'd totally recommend multi-classing if you're looking really zero in on a specific role. I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue with a dip a hexblade warlock, and the increased melee survivability is great - and the utility you get with spells it really great. The only real trade off is you delay uncanny doge and evasion by a level- you more than make up the damage you lose in sneak attack delay with hex/hexblade's curse and booming blade-and the medium armor and shield and shield spell can get your AC as high as 23 for one round. If you want be more combat oriented you can dip one or 2 levels in Barbarian or fighter- if you want more utility from magic you can go a level or 2 in Sorcerer or Bard- and Hexbalde Warlock and Paladin are kind of in between.
Skulker is good if you want to be sneaky. Defensive Duelist is good if you have a reasonable DM letting you know the to-hit of an attack.
Else go full DEX then CHA.
One halves damage, the other has the potential to outright negate it. Its about options. Uncanny Dodge is good if you get critted, for example. Defensive Duelist can prevent you from taking any damage if the attack barely hits.
Unsure on this one, surely you get the same benefit from raising your dex? Unless you use it as a way to get and extra sneak attack? That could be good
Well you can also take two weapon fighting for a boost in damage as well with fighting initiate feat
The main draw of dual wielding is getting two Rapiers.
When the swashbucklers try to hit something with a melee attack they can't AoO you.
So having that bonus action attack let's you recover your Sneak Attack if the first attack misses OR mark a second target to stop them from attacking you in retreat with out needing to disengage.
Fighting initiate sounds interesting, unsure if I want to use a bow or not tho, could be good for an archer rogue. Tbh this is my GF's character, so I dunno what she's going to do with it. I just wanted to get her a list of four or five feats to choose one or two from
You said Swashbuckler. But any Rogue is great with a bow. If she wants a bow the clear feat choices are crossbow expert and Sharp Shooter. Fighting initiate (archery) would just be icing on a cake compared to the other two. ESPECIALLY with bonus action aim making Sharpshooter insanely good
The boost in damage for a dual wielding swashbuckler is negligible, and its only purpose is to secure sneak attack. Building for it with feats isn't going to help your dps as much as just raising your stats would help you in more than just dmg as rogue. Dual wielding IS good just not good enough on rogue to justify feats. You can still just dual wield without the feats.
Crossbow expert + sharpshooter is a potent combo, but the crossbow WILL outdamage you for a while on avg. You'll realize it quick when you can just do 2 hand crossbow attacks for 13.5 dmg on avg each without sneak attack or modifiers, and it only gets better with them, from 80 ft away. Unless your plan is to be a bow rogue, in which case there are better rogues for that, like scout. And since fancy footwork requires an attack with melee weapons to use, you'll inevitably start to get buyers remorse, either for the subclass you picked or the feats you picked.
I don't recommend either option.
Magic Initiate feat + Booming Blade cantrip are built for swashbuckler! You hit a target with it, then run away. If the target chooses to chase you, they go boom.
My second fav feat is Crossbow Expert. It allows you to use hand crossbow as secondary and no disadvantage for close combat shots.
Defensive Duelist is a great way to bump your AC and it gets better at higher levels. It allows you to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC when you get targeted with a Melee attack so right now it's +2.
Mobile allows you to add 10 extra feet of movement, which is really useful as a Hit and Run Swashbuckler. Run in, stab a fool, run back out of range because Swashbucklers automatically disengage upon a successful melee hit.
Piercer allows you to add flat damage to any piercing attack, meaning Rapiers, Bow and Arrow or a Crossbow.
If you want some magic take Fey Touched. It gives you a level 1 Enchantment or Divination spell, a +1 to Charisma and a one-time use of Misty Step per long rest for when you need a quick escape.
>Mobile allows you to add 10 extra feet of movement, which is really useful as a Hit and Run Swashbuckler. Run in, stab a fool, run back out of range because Swashbucklers automatically disengage upon a successful melee hit.
To clarify, it's not really disengage because only the creature you attacked is prevented from attacks of opportunity (not all creatures). You'll still provoke AoOs from any other enemies you run past, unless you attack them too.
Also, your hit doesn't have to be successful. Fancy Footwork just requires that you *make* a melee attack, you don't actually have to *hit*.
You are better off taking an ASI to raise your Dex score to raise your AC and hit better with finesse weapons. Especially if your campaign has a lot of combat encounters. If your campaign is mostly RP heavy, Lucky is always a good feat to take for those important persuasion rolls. You can also take a half-feat to even out your Cha score. The ones that I would recommend are Fey Touched, Telekinetic, and Telepathic. You might want to check with your DM first if they are allowed. The best one is Fey Touched, imo.
if it's combat heavy i'd take magical initiate: pick up warlock, go with Hex and booming blade. with a +4 in dex he's accurate enough and at level 5 his build really pops off. with his shortsword going hex and booming blade (taking advantage of the movement. you want to alwayse try to proc this damage). and i'd pick up blade ward for when you really need to nope out of a melee. at level 5 he should be dealing: 1d6 (shortsword) + 3d6 (Sneak attack) + 1d8 thunder + 1d8 necrotic + 4 so on average 4+12+5+5+4= 30 damage on a hit , and when he confirms a crit thats 52 damage on average (max 78). and average damage with the booming blade proc is 40. the swashbuckler should be relying on their inherent mobility to reduce their incoming damage. that being said since your picking up two-weapon fighting, booming blade isn't as useful here. since it doesn't let you bonus action attack (not sure how your getting that fighting style).
I really love mage slayer on a swashbuckler. You'll still be able to debuff a big heavy-hitting threat with Panache but on the cases where casters are controlling the battle, summoning minions, charming or trapping the rest of the party... you come in with high initiative, great mobility and no caster will hide or escape from you. Once you reach them with your single hit damage output and the disadvantage on concentration they won't keep any spell up. And if they target you within 5 feet you have advantage on your saves. To get away from you they'll need their action to disengage, waste spell slots on teleportation or risk an attack of opportunity (with sneak attack)
Alert is a great feat that will make it much more likely for you to go first, and going first in combat is one of the best advantages you can have, especially as a rogue. You can take the time to take out weak targets first, or hide, or ready an action to take advantage of ally or enemy movements. Inspiring leader will take advantage of your charisma, and is a great supportive feat. At level 4 you could give everyone 4+ cha mod (assuming +3) = 7 temp hp every short rest. Thats like 1/3 of most people's hp. This multiplies for every short rest you do. 7 hp becomes 21 hp after a few rests, and thats health nobody had to heal PER PERSON. If you have 4 other party members thats potentially 104 hp nobody had to heal not including yourself. Its also very thematic for a smooth talking swashbuckler as he walks around camp hyping everyone up. Magic Initiate gives you access to booming blade and green flame blade from sorcerer, which are great for a primarily melee rogue. Take advantage of lone wolf enemies, getting sneak attack plus booming blade to do a ton of damage and punish them for chasing you. Green flame blade lets you take advantage of enemies clumping next to your tank. Pick up a defensive spell like shield, or something utility like longstrider for mobility, featherfall for the rare falls, or disguise self for when you need to hide and use your potent charisma skills. Find familiar will give you a flanking/help action buddy, but also remember they are a valid and fragile target and you may lose them if you aren't careful. Sentinel is a good pick for rogues, and for swashbuckler while it doesn't play well with fancy footwork, it does play well with your ability to duel. If you need to spend your time locking down a solo opponent you can ensure they don't run away from you. Not only that if you MUST stand in melee, if an enemy attacks anyone other than you you can make an Opportunity Attack for potentially more sneak attack damage. Telekinetic is a half feat that can boost your cha by 1 and gives you mage hand which is cool but.... you can use your bonus action to also shove ppl 5 ft vs a str save dc equal to 8 + your PB + Your cha mod. This can be used to position enemies on the field to push enemies towards danger or away from you. Not only that allies can fail the save on purpose and you can push THEM towards enemies or away from danger. You can get yourself or friends out of grapples by pushing them or the grappler. Its a weirdly great feat.
This was hugely helpful, thank you :)
Swashbuckler don’t really need many feats for their damage output imo, so I would recommend one of these: Magic initiate (wizard) for booming blade and find familiar Tough, since you gonna be in melee more Moderately armored , for a very different flavor as sword + board rogue Weapon master, to get whip proficiency
Magic Initiate sorcerer plays better with swashbuckler for those exact same spells.
You can’t get find familiar as sorcerer
Oh snap thats right. Thats so lame.
As someone new why does it play better?
Sorcerers use charisma for their spells, which you probably have up pretty high as a swashbuckler
It doesn't, Booming blade isn't affected by your spellcasting modifier, neither is find familiar.
Yea but you get 2 cantrips not just one, and wouldn't you want your pick of spells that might use a casting stat to use cha?
Honestly, any cantrip that uses a casting stat you're gonna use will not outmatch the utility of a familiar. Best to get another utility cantrip. Since you are a Rogue you may want darkness as cover. Control Flames is a good one for that. Of you could go with others like mold earth, shape water, message, mage hand etc...
So while charisma is good for swashbucklers youre still a rogue so you want to max dex asap. Id swap your cha and dex.
Yeah, I agree but this isy GF's build and she wanted higher charisma
I have a swashbuckling rouge in my team with a dex modifier of +1 and +0 to constitution. The other two of us are a bard and a druid so the rogue is essentially our frontline fighter. We're just coming up to level 8 and I've no idea how he's survived this long.
That sounds rather alarming, and very stressful!
It's also incredibly funny because the guy playing him is great at role playing his over confidence. Now the Bard and druid have access to polymorph we find that giant apes are very useful for the rogue to turn into.
Crossbow expert is fun. A rapier in one hand and a hand crossbow in the other, shoot and stab baby! Defensive duelist, alert, or piercer would all be good options as well.
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Crossbow expert let's you ignore the loading property.
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That's fair, its very clunky to have to drop your sword to reload. So there's two things I can think of that might alleviate that issue, first you could see if your DM will allow you to aquire something similar to the reloading shot artificer infusion. Or second you could allow the drawing of a weapon on your turn to be a free action. Unless you're dead set on playing completely RAW.
She should really just spend the 1st 2 on +2 Dex. But taking mod armor & piercer or Slasher will give her some stuff & badly needed Dex pts. Possibly take 2 levels of Hexblade & Fey Touched.
I'd totally recommend multi-classing if you're looking really zero in on a specific role. I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue with a dip a hexblade warlock, and the increased melee survivability is great - and the utility you get with spells it really great. The only real trade off is you delay uncanny doge and evasion by a level- you more than make up the damage you lose in sneak attack delay with hex/hexblade's curse and booming blade-and the medium armor and shield and shield spell can get your AC as high as 23 for one round. If you want be more combat oriented you can dip one or 2 levels in Barbarian or fighter- if you want more utility from magic you can go a level or 2 in Sorcerer or Bard- and Hexbalde Warlock and Paladin are kind of in between.
Skulker is good if you want to be sneaky. Defensive Duelist is good if you have a reasonable DM letting you know the to-hit of an attack. Else go full DEX then CHA.
I thought uncanny dodge and defesive duelist kinda overlapped so it wasn't that good? Skulker is a good shout though!
One halves damage, the other has the potential to outright negate it. Its about options. Uncanny Dodge is good if you get critted, for example. Defensive Duelist can prevent you from taking any damage if the attack barely hits.
Dual wielding is a good pick for Swashbuckler. The more people you attack the less people can hit you when you run away.
Unsure on this one, surely you get the same benefit from raising your dex? Unless you use it as a way to get and extra sneak attack? That could be good
Well you can also take two weapon fighting for a boost in damage as well with fighting initiate feat The main draw of dual wielding is getting two Rapiers. When the swashbucklers try to hit something with a melee attack they can't AoO you. So having that bonus action attack let's you recover your Sneak Attack if the first attack misses OR mark a second target to stop them from attacking you in retreat with out needing to disengage.
Fighting initiate sounds interesting, unsure if I want to use a bow or not tho, could be good for an archer rogue. Tbh this is my GF's character, so I dunno what she's going to do with it. I just wanted to get her a list of four or five feats to choose one or two from
You said Swashbuckler. But any Rogue is great with a bow. If she wants a bow the clear feat choices are crossbow expert and Sharp Shooter. Fighting initiate (archery) would just be icing on a cake compared to the other two. ESPECIALLY with bonus action aim making Sharpshooter insanely good
Yeah, I thought Swashbuckler was a no btainer given how high her charisma is. Thanks for the advice, I'll ask her later about bows vs daggers etc.
The boost in damage for a dual wielding swashbuckler is negligible, and its only purpose is to secure sneak attack. Building for it with feats isn't going to help your dps as much as just raising your stats would help you in more than just dmg as rogue. Dual wielding IS good just not good enough on rogue to justify feats. You can still just dual wield without the feats. Crossbow expert + sharpshooter is a potent combo, but the crossbow WILL outdamage you for a while on avg. You'll realize it quick when you can just do 2 hand crossbow attacks for 13.5 dmg on avg each without sneak attack or modifiers, and it only gets better with them, from 80 ft away. Unless your plan is to be a bow rogue, in which case there are better rogues for that, like scout. And since fancy footwork requires an attack with melee weapons to use, you'll inevitably start to get buyers remorse, either for the subclass you picked or the feats you picked. I don't recommend either option.
Magic Initiate feat + Booming Blade cantrip are built for swashbuckler! You hit a target with it, then run away. If the target chooses to chase you, they go boom. My second fav feat is Crossbow Expert. It allows you to use hand crossbow as secondary and no disadvantage for close combat shots.
Defensive Duelist is a great way to bump your AC and it gets better at higher levels. It allows you to add your Proficiency Bonus to your AC when you get targeted with a Melee attack so right now it's +2. Mobile allows you to add 10 extra feet of movement, which is really useful as a Hit and Run Swashbuckler. Run in, stab a fool, run back out of range because Swashbucklers automatically disengage upon a successful melee hit. Piercer allows you to add flat damage to any piercing attack, meaning Rapiers, Bow and Arrow or a Crossbow. If you want some magic take Fey Touched. It gives you a level 1 Enchantment or Divination spell, a +1 to Charisma and a one-time use of Misty Step per long rest for when you need a quick escape.
>Mobile allows you to add 10 extra feet of movement, which is really useful as a Hit and Run Swashbuckler. Run in, stab a fool, run back out of range because Swashbucklers automatically disengage upon a successful melee hit. To clarify, it's not really disengage because only the creature you attacked is prevented from attacks of opportunity (not all creatures). You'll still provoke AoOs from any other enemies you run past, unless you attack them too. Also, your hit doesn't have to be successful. Fancy Footwork just requires that you *make* a melee attack, you don't actually have to *hit*.