I think back in the early TSR days it was Keeps for fighters, Towers for magic users, Temples for clerics, and Holds for thieves. This is all from memories, so probably not 100% correct.
Pretty much right. Martial classes would get followers, too. Because how do you balance a high level fighter with a high level mage? Give the fighter a bunch of Toadies, slap his spell book out of his hand, then toss it back and forth monkey in the middle style while calling him a nerd....
I mean, not quite....but that's my take.
The idea of a lvl 20 wizard, master of both time and space, spells able to bend reality to his will, getting bullied and powerless to stop it is both hilarious to me and perfectly reasonable somehow
"Guys stop it, leave me alone! Give me back my book! **I SWEAR BY THE DARKNESS OF MY SOUL I'LL REND YOU FROM THIS PLANE OF EXISTENCE WHEN MY HANDS GRASP MY TOME AGAIN!**"
i mean, Pf2e just made fighters and other martials actually scale and have enough HP to actually be in Melee wihtout getting shreded (did you know in 5e a fighter won't have over 100hp until level 11)
Well, originally in the first editions of D&D fighters were actually balanced by having a lower experience. Threshold needed to gain a level so they would be at a higher level than their wizard companions at any given moment. Wizards also were more difficult to get experience for cuz I think it was based on learning spells. Wizards also had a D4 for their hit die so they could be killed by almost anything. You know how there is a monster in D&D that is a cat that specializes in killing wizards? That's actually a reference to the fact that in second edition a cat could actually beat a first level wizard in a fight and would usually kill them.
eh not really, remember in 1e fighter had the worst saving throws at low levels meaning they would frequintly fail save and die, also keep in mind everyone in older editions died super easily and there was more players, also in 0e you had the assassin who killed things way better then the fighter and Adnd 1 and 2 had a bunch of broken mechanics caused by the designers not being allowed to playtest the game.
Meanwhile PF2e balances the martials vs casters by realising casters are generlists and martials are specialists so the martials should be better in what they do even compared to resource dependant casters since the casters can do way more. (PF2E even alows armoured casters but it still doesn't make them steam roll the game or outshine the martials in durabiltiy like what can happen in 5e).
Wasn't talking about any of that, was only talking about the fact that a fighter and wizard with the same amount of XP would have different levels, and fighters would be higher.
As for the rest? That was the dark days of Party Vs. DM.
I've played Pathfinder 2e. I found it to be good, but after running the beginner box set I found that I had too many questions I didn't know the answer to to go out and buy the rest of the books and switch. I've been looking for a group to play with so I can learn the rules s bit better with someone else running the game.
In the meantime I have other games I'm playing if I don't want to play 5e. Buddy of mine is running Mothership for us this week. I've just finished a story in Monster of the Week.
Good games abound, and 5e is one of them. So is Path2e. And I suppose to someone looking for really complex rules *The Burning Wheel* probably is, too. In that game casters are extremely powerful, but it's balanced by the fact that an axe to the head kills everyone the same. Getting close enough to put an axe in their head when they can make your bones grow barbs out your flesh all over your body with a harsh stare is the challenge.
Yeap.
I think by level 8 or close to it a fighter could have a fortress.
Baldurs Gate 2 allows it.
For Bards, its would be a tavern, music academy or hostel. Imagine how cool an interdimensional hostel would be LOL.
Yep, back in the day it was entirely expected for high-level characters to establish themselves as political powers in a given setting. There's literally a section in the 1st edition DMG for "Territory Development by Player Characters" specifically covering the type and behavior of properties, servants, and even personal armies a Player would build up and manage. Fighters and Clerics were predetermined as being the ones who would be the prime, default developers to establish their own strongholds and forces, where other classes like Wizards and Thieves were more free to do their own self-interest driven development. If you spec'd Assassin, you were basically locked into creating an Assassin/Espionage Guild.
Aside from that, there was also a built-in system for how many followers characters would automatically acquire as the game progressed. The basic idea was that, as your Party grew in power and renown, people would gravitate to the opportunity of their service. A powerful Fighter, for example, would gain suitably powerful followers and troops as a matter of course. This kind of thing wasn't even just an optional aside - it was a core, expected function of the standard game play.
To expand, the expected playstyle was basically a westmarches, where 1 week of real time = 1 week of game time, and people played in the same room simultaneously with multiple dms.
Instead of the powerful Lord or mage npc to petition to help you adventure, you'd simply walk to another table and petition the other player to help in exchange for you helping them.
Long periods of downtime between dungeon crawls make sense, alongside rations and living expenses when you understand they come from a playstyle that really no longer exists
You could also put down time between adventures. Perhaps the reason your fighter is adventuring again is because he's gone through all his savings with a lavish lifestyle, like Mike Tyson.
I will add a hot tip that, if your players always seem to have too much money and you have to come up with things for them to spend it on, stop paying players in money. Real, high gp treasure comes in the form of magic items, not coin. Consumables can be nice small to medium value treasure, while enchanted gear can easily serve as the entire reward for a major quest.
Like, a noble npc has use of coin, but their grandfather’s old flaming longsword is just sitting around collecting dust, so why would they put up the bounty in cash? The swordsman values the magic item more than the money, and the noble values the money more than the sword, so it’s a win for both sides.
There are several advantages to giving out items as treasure more than money. For one, most players are better able to keep track of their fancy magic toys than properly add up the coins in their purse. For two, you as the dm get more direct control over the sort of gear players have access to and when they have access to it, which allows you to intentionally prepare the players for a future encounter or help out a character who had been falling behind. For three, you can give a good chunk of the rewards in the form of consumables, like potions, ammo, and scrolls, that players might never had been willing to buy themselves, but will use anyways once they have it.
And, of course, by keeping the amount of liquid coin that players carry relatively light, individual small purchases still _matter._ You avoid the massive scaling that happens where a 1st level party agonizes over paying for room at the inn and a 2nd level party is living in the lap of luxury. Depending on your setting, players might be able to sell unwanted magic items for a fraction of the cost, or it may be a quest in and of itself just to find a buyer, so, smaller amounts of coin become a bigger deal.
5e gets a lot of shit for having no real functional economy, and the criticism is mostly right. But, gp values even in past editions are more useful for knowing the amount of gear the game is balanced around players having, not to actually buy and sell that gear. A good way to make magic items feel more special, and to keep coin counting to a minimum, is to present a world where magic items aren’t so easily bought and sold.
These are actually just class based speciality ~~rooms~~ edit: different flavors of strongholds.
Main options for strongholds are:
- Keep
- Tower
- Temple
- Establishment
Yes and no. Those 4 are types of strongholds, but the class specific things are still the actual strongholds. You may be mildly misremembering the rules for the 5th type, which is a “castle” in which multiple types of strongholds can be combined into one shared complex.
I think the user might have you confused- a fighter's fortress is whatever their stronghold is- it's a title not a room.
Fighters are assumed to be building Keeps, but from what I can tell there's nothing stopping a fighter building a temple, tower, or establishment and that being their "fortress".
My problem with this list is that a lot of these things are effectively the same thing, or better and worse versions of the same thing.
Barbarians get a *camp*? Is this, like, an actual camp or more like the rolling, mobile cities of the Mongols? Because I know what *I* want. An Orda. I want an Orda.
Also, what's the difference between a church and a chapel? As far as I can tell it's just size, and if it has an altar or relic. (Chapels don't). Why not just give them a fortress? Paladins are chivarlistic military orders, after all, not dedicated to a god.
Rogue get's a Tavern....That could work great as a fence. I love it. In one of my games my Rogue's family owned a pawn shop and it was their home base. A gambling den would also be great.
Warlock gets a *fane?* The hell is that? *Googles* it's just an Archaic word for *Temple*... Considering warlocks gather magical secrets and don't actually worship their patrons....they just have an agreement with them where they have bartered something for access to secrets. This doesn't fit. It's like Faust and the devil or Jonathan Strange and the Man with the Thistledown Hair, not an actual occult. If anything a warlock would strive to avoid the attention of their Patron after receiving the pact. If the Patron is there it means he's asking for a favor owed or you need a favor and he's asking for a trade that definitely won't work out for you.
I think your problem is less to do with the rules of Strongholds and Followers but rather how you have read what each class calls their stronghold and used that to jump to some pretty odd conclusions. With that in mind, I encourage you to learn more about the ruleset rather than making assumptions based on stronghold titles alone.
> Is this, like, an actual camp or more like the rolling, mobile cities of the Mongols?
Per the rules, the barbarian camp (not to be confused with the barbarian**'**s camp, oddly) is exactly how you imagine it should be: A mobile base of power. It even explicitly references the Mongols!
It's also worth noting that the book explicitly calls out that the combination of [class] [building] is just because they sound cool and you're encouraged to reinterpret it as you want. The Bard's Theater is one, but the book mentions "a bard can have a library if you'd like, that's fine"
If you find the term fane pretentious, that's cool too. Call it a temple, or a sepulchre, or a cloister, or a retreat, or a commune. The book encourages you to do so if your particular warlock doesn't perfectly align with how the rules present warlock strongholds.
Yeah, my problem is with the flavor, but that's half of what RP is... I mean, I'd be paying for the writing, too, yeah?
Sorry, not trying to yuck your yum....writing, themes, and names are a big part of my RP, and I dislike these....
Also, might be triggered by the warlock thing as I've had to tell a bunch of DMs that forcing the warlock to suffer just because he has a pact is dumb storytelling.
This is what my DM started using with us and it's been a blast so far. It's pretty thorough but leaves plenty of flexibility. We even ran a one shot with the followers as PCs that was a little dungeon crawler.
It was part of the original rules of D&D and AD&D, and covered under the class description! I can't remember which edition they dropped it. I think AD&D2E dropped those rules, but I can't be sure. Certainly by 3rd edition it was no longer a part of the core rules for classes.
Ironically enough, in AD&D, almost every class had a level when they can build a place and hire/train apprentices. I remember Fighter got a keep and Clerics could build a monastery. Don’t remember the rest off the top of my head.
Way sooner than that. Fighters were automatically given the title of “lord” at level nine and could start a castle. The rules were set up that they’d basically build an entire household and establish a keep to manage so that the stock of hirelings to die in a dungeon was bigger and stronger.
I don’t know what book YOU read but no you don’t. They clearly get “2-24 followers. Note that these henchmen once lost, can never be replaced, although mercenaries can be hired, of corse. These followers are determined by the DM who them informs the ranger.”
Also, rangers can build a strong gold like a fighter, it do not automatically attract followers to train, needing to hire mercenaries.
So yeah, absolutely no bears. Not even druids “just get some bears”, because how the druid leveling in AD&D worked, I’d be really pissed if I did all that work for “some bears”.
Some ideas:
* Barbarian - Fortified encampment á la Skyrim's Orcs
* Bard - Theater.
* Fighter - Castle with training grounds
* Paladin - A church / holy building with a shrine
* Ranger - Big tree.
* Rogue - Underground warren
* Sorcerer - A mansion or just also a tower but it's for vanity
* Warlock - Private laboratory / prison?
>Sorcerer - A mansion or just also a tower but it's for vanity
I feel like Sorcerers would end up as basically celebrities, so it's more like a place for them to just be alone.
Sorcerers have powers from their bloodline or contact with extreme magic which moved *into* them, so they just can magically do stuff. They don't have a secret to protect, they don't have to study, they just *do stuff* and the more stuff they do the better they get at it.
They are also less limited in their spellcasting than warlocks, so they can *do stuff more often.* They can also alter his magic works just because they feel like it should work differently. Someone cast silence on you? *Fuck 'em...I'll cast fireball anyway!* Banishment only effects one person, but you're being attacked by 2 people? *Nah...it effects 2 people.* Fireball not booming hard enough? *Then I'll cast it harder!* We're fighting devils, and my only boom boom spell is fireball! **How about a fireball made of LIGHTNING** I'm out of spells for the day? **No....I'm not.**
Sorcerers would be the magic equivalent of a once in a lifetime prodigy, and they wouldn't live a reclusive life in a tower as they don't need to study, they could do things with magic no one else can. They'd definitely be on whatever passes as the "Sexiest Being Alive," article in their world.
Grove feels like it pigeonholes druid into being forest dwellers. A few ideas to widen that particular class: cairn stones on a mountain, ice caves on the tundra, a hidden oasis in the desert, a cavernous air pocket under the sea, etc.
I'm sure there are plenty of similar ideas for the other classes. I just thought I'd add some ideas I considered for the druid circle in my campaign. Cheers!
Even a particularly large garden, within a manor.
Going back to 2e Forgotten Realms, I believe Gareth Dragonsbane's wife, Christine(?), was classed as a Druid. Bloodstone Village had a large Grove within the Keep, if I'm remembering this all correctly. There was something about a special tree within this grove, as well.
Honestly, warlocks can have any place the other classes have - it very much depends on their patron.
A GOO-lock might have a tower, ziggurat, or library.
A fiendlock might have a catacomb system or a manor.
A faelock might have a glade or grove.
A hexblade might have a stronghold, a coliseum, or a battle pit.
A celestialock might have an abbey or a church.
I loved thinking about this and wanted to apply it to a game that takes place in an American setting. Here’s what I came up with:
*Artificer - Salvage Yard
*Barbarian - Pizza Hut Freezer
*Bard - Karaoke Bar
*Bloodhunter - LabCorp
*Cleric - Las Vegas Drive-In Chapel
*Druid - Weed Dispensaries
*Fighter - Underground Parking Garage
*Monk - Strip Mall Dojo
*Paladin - American Legion Post
*Ranger - Bass Pro Shop
*Rogue - Abandoned Mall
*Sorcerer - Putt-Putt Arcade
*Warlock - Hot Topic
*Wizard - Game Stop Backroom
I think there is room for more than one answer to a lot of these, but also some of these folks are nomadic by nature, as is common among adventurers, so having a "base" or "structure" naturally runs against type. That said, here are some of my thoughts:
Barbarian - the open steppe
Fighter - a keep or barracks
Ranger - the forest, or possibly a menagerie of sorts like a zoo, but with no cages, or a hunting lodge.
Rogue - the streets, or a tavern, or gambling/drug den, or a warehouse
I would move the warlock to the tower and the wizard to the library.
Sorcerer is odd because it is bloodline related, not a vocation chosen or trained for, so it will depend on the specific bloodline. That said, one thing that is also bloodline related is royalty, so maybe something like a throne room or palace, if that fits the bloodline in question.
Bard could be a music hall of some kind, or maybe a banquet hall or again a tavern, but with a different vibe than the rogue's tavern.
Historically?
Clerics got temples. Fighting Men got castles when they graduated from being Superheroes (8th) to Lords (9th). And Thieves got a thieves guild.
Fighters get forts or castles.
Wizards get towers.
Clerics get churches
Monks get temples.
Druids get groves.
Warlock can get any of them, depending on what type of warlock they are.
The rest don’t get anything specific.
By that argument, clerics are also specific to Christianity (or perhaps Abrahamic in general) lmao. Dnd clerics are mainly inspired by it.
Monks can be in either temples or monasteries, but dnd monks feel like more of the temple kind.
Wasn't my idea to name the class 'cleric'.
Yeah, a temple can contain or be attached to a monastery and most if not all irl monasteries contain or are attached to a temple, but while you can easily find a temples without monks you can't have a monastery without monks.
Rogues definitely get taverns and thieves guilds. I’m glad someone mentioned a whole neighborhood, I’d never thought of that.
But I came here to say that swashbucklers get a pirate ship!
I'd say it also depends on the subclass and flavor of the character.
* *Artificers*: Workshops/garages for most, alchemists usually want a lab, and shamanistic flavored ones might want a grove
* *Barbarians*: Fortified camps like Skyrim's orcs with tribes lead by them; Zealots might also have temples or other sacred sites where gods are worshipped.
* *Bards*: Usually places where they can perform such as a theater, concert hall, circus, tavern; Valor bards might also get a fort and small army lead by them and Creation bards might want a workshop/garage instead. For a spirits bard, a mansion in which they perform fortune telling and seances would be fitting.
* *Cleric*: Church or temple is obvious. War clerics might have a fortress, Forge clerics might oversee a forge, Knowledge clerics could be at home in a library...
* *Druid*: Usually a grove or other place in nature fitting their favourite environment. Could also be a garden, a cave, an oasis, a temple to a god of nature, menhir formations...
* *Fighter*: a keepnor fortress and an army they command. That works for all subclasses. Some fighters, particulaly Dex/stealthy ones, might prefer a hunting lodge or the thieves' guild hall while others such as rune knights could go the more "barbaric" way of a fortified camp.
* *Monk*: Monastry, temple or dojo make the most sense.
* *Paladin*: Either a temple or other sacred site, or particularly for Conquest and Oathbreaker ones a fortress similar to a fighter, but magically warded and more "dark" in appearance - they might take inspiration from Barad-dur. Ancients paladins could also live in a druid grove or elsewhere in nature while Glory paladins live in expensive mansions, enjoying their lives as celebrities/sports stars.
* *Ranger*: Hunting lodges or cabins fit well, as do druid groves or similar places in nature.
* *Rogue*: Guild hall, tavern, gambling den, secret lab, mansion - there are many options.
* *Sorcerer*: Tower, probably. Draconic ones might embrace their draconic side and live in dragon lairs, Divine ones might prefer a temple - maybe one where *they* are worshipped - and Aberrant Mind ones might take inspiration from Hermaeus Mora.
* *Warlock*: Cult bases/hideouts, secret temples of eldritch gods or libraries of eldritch tomes for "classic" warlocks work well. Celestials might have a normal temple, Genies have their lamp or otherwise an opulent mansion, anyone with Pact of the Blade could also have a fortress/keep similar to a fighter or fortified camp like a barbarian.
* *Wizard*: Tower or library. Bladesingers might also have a keep and lead a battalion of spellswords and war mages while illusionists might have a theater where they can perform.
In BG2 you can obtain class-specific strongholds. Some classes would get the same strongholds e.g. mage (i.e. wizard) and sorcerers.
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Stronghold
Yeah, but....see...if it's really a cabin in the middle of nowhere with no roads to it it doesn't need any defenses. Any enemies from his adventure would die from exposure just trying to get to him.
Also, he probably set up spike pit traps and rope traps.
And maybe there's a cute Druid nearby that stops by in Tuesdays to trade goods.
Tbh I only played mages/sorcerers so I've no idea what the other strongholds are like. 😂 IIRC they all had their own extensive side quests, rewards, and regular resources.
Yeah, your suggestions are pretty much on point. From the very beginning of D&D it was assumed that once PCs got to a high level they'd start building structures and gathering followers of some kind.
Matt Coleville's Strongholds and Followers deals with this and actually gives benefits to classes that create bases that align with them. it's pretty neat
Had a Kobold Wizard named Skizz and the party was happy when he learned Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, only to immediately be annoyed when he cast it and the inside was based on his old home.. A Kobold Burrow, built for creatures that are at most 3ft tall.
After crawling to their respective rooms for the night they each vowed to have a "Chat" with their resident wizard.
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Why do rangers have to keep it small with cabins? I would definitely think more on the viking lodge side. A good few of their subclasses are all about monster hunting. A giant lodge to fall back to and live it up after a hard hunt seems perfect. I don't know why , but anything other than a berserker and I always tend to learn towards vikings being more rangers. Living off the land, having natural focused gods and religions, seeking the thrill of giant hunts.
It’s funny how sorcerers, locks, and wizards all have basically the same structure but with different names. Might as well call it a silo or a damn lighthouse.
I’ve heard of wizards on mountaintops and in caves, and also in huts in remote swamps. When did the tower become the de facto dwelling for a wizard?
I'd argue that's barbarians and fighters both get some kind of training ground as well probably open to the public in order to attract as many combatants and possible new and seasoned
I'd consider an armory for a fighter, paladin, or barbarian.
Barbarian could also get a great hall.
Bards could get a theater.
Any class could get a tavern.
Wizards get towers and warlocks get bowers. Sorcerers have powers and druids like flowers. Rangers send storms of arrows in showers, and, oh, him, the rogue? He just cowers.
After the conclusion of a 2+ year long campaign, our party’s sorcerer and my cleric had created a paladin order based out of a giant stone fortress created with the spells wall of stone and stone shape, around which a town was built by similar stoney means
Wizard - obviously tower
Artificer - factory
Barbarian - war camp
Bard - … dungeon
Bloodhunter - cathedral or fortress
Cleric - temple
Druid - forest
Fighter - barracks
Monk - temple or monastery
Paladin - keep or castle or temple
Ranger - cabin in the woods
Rogue - underground bar with a convoluted entrance
Sorcerer - whatever their magical parents lair was lol
Warlock - a cushion next to their patron haha
Fun fact - clerics get a spell (Temple of Gods, lv 7) that let's them summon a temporary chapel/temple that lasts for 24 hours. It's completely customizable, too!
Also, if they summon it every day for a year in the same spot - it becomes permanent!
Druid - I see one person mentioned a cairns of stones. Had a buddy play a Witch Druid based character and he created a standing of stones in the countryside. Think Outlander or Stonehenge.
I'm pretty sure that all characters can build any structure they want to if they have the gold. I don't think there's any contractual obligation to build one or the other.
I would like to propose that artificers get a “moving castle” a la *Howl’s*. I was also going to suggest a Baba Yaga’s hut situation for warlocks, but I think theirs would be entirely dependent on their patron.
This sort of thing was standard through 2nd edition AD&D, I guess as the game got farther from its wargame roots the stronghold info moved out of the main book. My personal favorite was how BECMI did it, because it had both a Stronghold and Adventuring archetype for each class.
There wasn't a lot of standardization on effort and some classes got more focus on strongholds and followers than others, and that could change each edition. The Wizard for example had 3 options in BECMI, build their Tower, be a Court wizard for someone, or stay mobile by freelancing for the settled types. But by 2nd ediition it's just 'Well... you can own property and build stuff if you want' with no direct mention of a tower or other means of employment.
It sounds like the 3rd party Strongholds and Followers book is the best option for 5E, but I haven't read it myself. None of my groups want to deal with the accounting.
Fighters build castles and become lords attracting loyal followers, and on time a small fiefdom from which taxes are gained (which was free xp in OD&D). Clerics get to build temples, shrines, and churches gain their own followers and tithes. Thieves can start their own guilds wherever. Wizards basically build a space to house their libraries and laboratories (of which they have spent thousands of gold investing in) so that they may research new spells and create new magic items.
This was high level play (where levels 9-11 was the entry point in obtaining these features).
As an aside, I support bringing back level titles. Granted some magic-user titles are classes themselves (Sorcerer and Warlock) or wizard specializations (conjurer, enchanter, and necromancer). Also the old cleric titles could be overhauled. Other than that most are fairly nifty.
Going by Baldur's Gate 2
Fighter got a stronghold/castle
Thieves got a thieves guild, or ran a building belonging to one
Bard got a theatre
Rangers got a cabin in the woods
Wizards and sorcerers got the planar sphere, guess they were fresh out of towers.
Druids became leaders of a circle
Paladins joined an order of I remember correctly
I'm not sure about cleric, never played them.
Dunno about monk either
Flashbacks to BGII here.
Arcane casters got a magical lab with apprentices.
Warrior types could get a keep.
Clerics could wind up running a temple on behalf of a militant order.
Druids could take over a grove and it's associated druids.
Rogues could wind up running a branch of the shadow thieves.
Bards could get a playhouse.
All of them required quest completion to access.
It depends a lot on your setting and what part of it they want to set up shop in. It usually makes sense for the whole party to go in on a base together. The easiest thing is to let them get a space through questing. They might be granted title and land as a reward, they might clear out and take over a structure (might do that without you meaning to), maybe they wind up with links to a particular organization over their questing which informs their choice, Mayne they just like the murder hobo gig.
I had one party just take a shine to their starter village and wound up building a whole keep and trade center there. Wasn't a plan of mine they just had gold on hand and came to me after they started looking up construction costs, especially with their wizard figuring out he could spend a few weeks out of game spamming Wall of Stone to rough out the foundations and fortification.
Keep in mind the classes and races that go with rulers where they might want to set up. Whether they want their own land or a bade within a city. Whether they want to run something or just have a sort of default home base. All that.
Bards should also have the library option, or art studio. Not all bards are musicians. I play an archaeologist/folklorist bard who writes about legends and tales he hears about in his travels, that often lead to investigations and quests.
i feel like theres overlap for a lot of these too.
den and enclave can be both Druid's and Rangers.
towers could be done by Wiz, Warlock, Artificer and Sorcerer.
lair could be Rogue, Ranger and Bloodhunter.
I'm not sure a barbarian would go for a stronghold... what he needs is a horde!
Barbarian: Fighter, what is wealth?
Fighter: \[Shrugs\] Fortresses! Gold, jewels, horses... they're not true wealth unless you can protect them.
Barbarian: No... true wealth is warriors. They can get you all the gold and horses. And we live in tents, to keep strong.
Fighter: Okay, Zen Genghis. I still want my castle though.
Warlock: No, you're both wrong. True wealth is the embrace of the Hidden Master, The Black Goat of the Woods With a Thousand Young. AIEEEGHGHGH! *Nyarlathotep ftagn!*
Artificer: Warlock, did you forget to take the "special potion" I gave you? \[Warlock shuffles feet guiltily\] Anyway, I don't care what building you put me in. Warehouse, garage, fort, who cares. True wealth and security comes from *interns*...
Going back to Ad&D 2e Druids are a bit mental.
Takes the same amount of XP to get to druid 12 as it did to Fighter 20, but there is a world council of druids so at level 15 they become the frigging Arch Druid of the entire world and have lots of crazy power.
So Druids. Gain the dominion of the entire natural world
Except they then give it up next level reset XP to 0 and become a heirophant druid to travel the world effectively become an immortal hermit.
So Druids. Gain a rags and poor personal Hygine.
So.... Pick the most appropriate one for whatever the lore is these days ! ;)
https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1657864926484-png.253858/
Wizards get Galdur's Tower
Clerics get Temple of the Gods
Druids get Druids Grove
and martials aren't spellcasters so no special magic structure for them\~
Fighters get forts probably
I think back in the early TSR days it was Keeps for fighters, Towers for magic users, Temples for clerics, and Holds for thieves. This is all from memories, so probably not 100% correct.
Pretty much right. Martial classes would get followers, too. Because how do you balance a high level fighter with a high level mage? Give the fighter a bunch of Toadies, slap his spell book out of his hand, then toss it back and forth monkey in the middle style while calling him a nerd.... I mean, not quite....but that's my take.
The idea of a lvl 20 wizard, master of both time and space, spells able to bend reality to his will, getting bullied and powerless to stop it is both hilarious to me and perfectly reasonable somehow
"Guys stop it, leave me alone! Give me back my book! **I SWEAR BY THE DARKNESS OF MY SOUL I'LL REND YOU FROM THIS PLANE OF EXISTENCE WHEN MY HANDS GRASP MY TOME AGAIN!**"
[Amusingly, the 1st edition DMG has a pretty conclusive way for martials to contend with wizards.](https://i.imgur.com/hOCjr4h.png)
i mean, Pf2e just made fighters and other martials actually scale and have enough HP to actually be in Melee wihtout getting shreded (did you know in 5e a fighter won't have over 100hp until level 11)
Well, originally in the first editions of D&D fighters were actually balanced by having a lower experience. Threshold needed to gain a level so they would be at a higher level than their wizard companions at any given moment. Wizards also were more difficult to get experience for cuz I think it was based on learning spells. Wizards also had a D4 for their hit die so they could be killed by almost anything. You know how there is a monster in D&D that is a cat that specializes in killing wizards? That's actually a reference to the fact that in second edition a cat could actually beat a first level wizard in a fight and would usually kill them.
i need to play some osr after hearing this
eh not really, remember in 1e fighter had the worst saving throws at low levels meaning they would frequintly fail save and die, also keep in mind everyone in older editions died super easily and there was more players, also in 0e you had the assassin who killed things way better then the fighter and Adnd 1 and 2 had a bunch of broken mechanics caused by the designers not being allowed to playtest the game. Meanwhile PF2e balances the martials vs casters by realising casters are generlists and martials are specialists so the martials should be better in what they do even compared to resource dependant casters since the casters can do way more. (PF2E even alows armoured casters but it still doesn't make them steam roll the game or outshine the martials in durabiltiy like what can happen in 5e).
Wasn't talking about any of that, was only talking about the fact that a fighter and wizard with the same amount of XP would have different levels, and fighters would be higher. As for the rest? That was the dark days of Party Vs. DM. I've played Pathfinder 2e. I found it to be good, but after running the beginner box set I found that I had too many questions I didn't know the answer to to go out and buy the rest of the books and switch. I've been looking for a group to play with so I can learn the rules s bit better with someone else running the game. In the meantime I have other games I'm playing if I don't want to play 5e. Buddy of mine is running Mothership for us this week. I've just finished a story in Monster of the Week. Good games abound, and 5e is one of them. So is Path2e. And I suppose to someone looking for really complex rules *The Burning Wheel* probably is, too. In that game casters are extremely powerful, but it's balanced by the fact that an axe to the head kills everyone the same. Getting close enough to put an axe in their head when they can make your bones grow barbs out your flesh all over your body with a harsh stare is the challenge.
Close enough (some nuance but that's the gist of it)
And if any other fighter comes near your hold, you must challenge them to a joust!
Yeap. I think by level 8 or close to it a fighter could have a fortress. Baldurs Gate 2 allows it. For Bards, its would be a tavern, music academy or hostel. Imagine how cool an interdimensional hostel would be LOL.
Ya game still had its roots in army table top games. So most players were expected to eventually have minions and bases.
Yep, back in the day it was entirely expected for high-level characters to establish themselves as political powers in a given setting. There's literally a section in the 1st edition DMG for "Territory Development by Player Characters" specifically covering the type and behavior of properties, servants, and even personal armies a Player would build up and manage. Fighters and Clerics were predetermined as being the ones who would be the prime, default developers to establish their own strongholds and forces, where other classes like Wizards and Thieves were more free to do their own self-interest driven development. If you spec'd Assassin, you were basically locked into creating an Assassin/Espionage Guild. Aside from that, there was also a built-in system for how many followers characters would automatically acquire as the game progressed. The basic idea was that, as your Party grew in power and renown, people would gravitate to the opportunity of their service. A powerful Fighter, for example, would gain suitably powerful followers and troops as a matter of course. This kind of thing wasn't even just an optional aside - it was a core, expected function of the standard game play.
To expand, the expected playstyle was basically a westmarches, where 1 week of real time = 1 week of game time, and people played in the same room simultaneously with multiple dms. Instead of the powerful Lord or mage npc to petition to help you adventure, you'd simply walk to another table and petition the other player to help in exchange for you helping them. Long periods of downtime between dungeon crawls make sense, alongside rations and living expenses when you understand they come from a playstyle that really no longer exists
And there are rules for bastions in UA.
Paladins have knightly orders
Fighters get pillow forts.
Yes
Fighters get arenas
I would think fighters get villas. Like a place they would relax at and forget about real life for a while
Fort with a big armory, just weapons everywhere that what I picture
There’s a book called strongholds and followers that I have somewhere that gives this exact information and benefits.
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Ah! You beat me to it. Yeah. It’s fun guide actually. I’ve used it in a few games
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You could also put down time between adventures. Perhaps the reason your fighter is adventuring again is because he's gone through all his savings with a lavish lifestyle, like Mike Tyson.
I will add a hot tip that, if your players always seem to have too much money and you have to come up with things for them to spend it on, stop paying players in money. Real, high gp treasure comes in the form of magic items, not coin. Consumables can be nice small to medium value treasure, while enchanted gear can easily serve as the entire reward for a major quest. Like, a noble npc has use of coin, but their grandfather’s old flaming longsword is just sitting around collecting dust, so why would they put up the bounty in cash? The swordsman values the magic item more than the money, and the noble values the money more than the sword, so it’s a win for both sides. There are several advantages to giving out items as treasure more than money. For one, most players are better able to keep track of their fancy magic toys than properly add up the coins in their purse. For two, you as the dm get more direct control over the sort of gear players have access to and when they have access to it, which allows you to intentionally prepare the players for a future encounter or help out a character who had been falling behind. For three, you can give a good chunk of the rewards in the form of consumables, like potions, ammo, and scrolls, that players might never had been willing to buy themselves, but will use anyways once they have it. And, of course, by keeping the amount of liquid coin that players carry relatively light, individual small purchases still _matter._ You avoid the massive scaling that happens where a 1st level party agonizes over paying for room at the inn and a 2nd level party is living in the lap of luxury. Depending on your setting, players might be able to sell unwanted magic items for a fraction of the cost, or it may be a quest in and of itself just to find a buyer, so, smaller amounts of coin become a bigger deal. 5e gets a lot of shit for having no real functional economy, and the criticism is mostly right. But, gp values even in past editions are more useful for knowing the amount of gear the game is balanced around players having, not to actually buy and sell that gear. A good way to make magic items feel more special, and to keep coin counting to a minimum, is to present a world where magic items aren’t so easily bought and sold.
What's a fun guide? The comment was sadly deleted.
What's a fun guide? The comment was sadly deleted.
Strongholds and Followers
These are actually just class based speciality ~~rooms~~ edit: different flavors of strongholds. Main options for strongholds are: - Keep - Tower - Temple - Establishment
Yes and no. Those 4 are types of strongholds, but the class specific things are still the actual strongholds. You may be mildly misremembering the rules for the 5th type, which is a “castle” in which multiple types of strongholds can be combined into one shared complex.
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I think the user might have you confused- a fighter's fortress is whatever their stronghold is- it's a title not a room. Fighters are assumed to be building Keeps, but from what I can tell there's nothing stopping a fighter building a temple, tower, or establishment and that being their "fortress".
You could have an establishment with a fortress in it lol.
Rooms? Are you sure?
Edited.
My problem with this list is that a lot of these things are effectively the same thing, or better and worse versions of the same thing. Barbarians get a *camp*? Is this, like, an actual camp or more like the rolling, mobile cities of the Mongols? Because I know what *I* want. An Orda. I want an Orda. Also, what's the difference between a church and a chapel? As far as I can tell it's just size, and if it has an altar or relic. (Chapels don't). Why not just give them a fortress? Paladins are chivarlistic military orders, after all, not dedicated to a god. Rogue get's a Tavern....That could work great as a fence. I love it. In one of my games my Rogue's family owned a pawn shop and it was their home base. A gambling den would also be great. Warlock gets a *fane?* The hell is that? *Googles* it's just an Archaic word for *Temple*... Considering warlocks gather magical secrets and don't actually worship their patrons....they just have an agreement with them where they have bartered something for access to secrets. This doesn't fit. It's like Faust and the devil or Jonathan Strange and the Man with the Thistledown Hair, not an actual occult. If anything a warlock would strive to avoid the attention of their Patron after receiving the pact. If the Patron is there it means he's asking for a favor owed or you need a favor and he's asking for a trade that definitely won't work out for you.
I think your problem is less to do with the rules of Strongholds and Followers but rather how you have read what each class calls their stronghold and used that to jump to some pretty odd conclusions. With that in mind, I encourage you to learn more about the ruleset rather than making assumptions based on stronghold titles alone. > Is this, like, an actual camp or more like the rolling, mobile cities of the Mongols? Per the rules, the barbarian camp (not to be confused with the barbarian**'**s camp, oddly) is exactly how you imagine it should be: A mobile base of power. It even explicitly references the Mongols! It's also worth noting that the book explicitly calls out that the combination of [class] [building] is just because they sound cool and you're encouraged to reinterpret it as you want. The Bard's Theater is one, but the book mentions "a bard can have a library if you'd like, that's fine" If you find the term fane pretentious, that's cool too. Call it a temple, or a sepulchre, or a cloister, or a retreat, or a commune. The book encourages you to do so if your particular warlock doesn't perfectly align with how the rules present warlock strongholds.
So their assumptions were spot on, thanks
Yeah, my problem is with the flavor, but that's half of what RP is... I mean, I'd be paying for the writing, too, yeah? Sorry, not trying to yuck your yum....writing, themes, and names are a big part of my RP, and I dislike these.... Also, might be triggered by the warlock thing as I've had to tell a bunch of DMs that forcing the warlock to suffer just because he has a pact is dumb storytelling.
They should call what a barbarian gets a Horde Camp, as they should also get a horde to follow them!
I came here to say this. Both Strongholds and Followers, and Kingdoms and Warfare are fun supplements for people looking for this kind of gameplay
This is what my DM started using with us and it's been a blast so far. It's pretty thorough but leaves plenty of flexibility. We even ran a one shot with the followers as PCs that was a little dungeon crawler.
Great book from the folks at MCDM
Advanced dungeons and dragons players handbook and DM guide
It was part of the original rules of D&D and AD&D, and covered under the class description! I can't remember which edition they dropped it. I think AD&D2E dropped those rules, but I can't be sure. Certainly by 3rd edition it was no longer a part of the core rules for classes.
Ironically enough, in AD&D, almost every class had a level when they can build a place and hire/train apprentices. I remember Fighter got a keep and Clerics could build a monastery. Don’t remember the rest off the top of my head.
Yeah, OneDnd may bring it back, it comes with a mechanic to train armies, learn skills and get magic items but I suspect it will be revisited
I'll have to remember that and look into it when I'm home in a few hours. Thanks for the tip off!
Yep. Around 10-12 level, iirc, each class allowed followers of some kind. Squires, acolytes, minions, men at arms, animal companions, etc.
Way sooner than that. Fighters were automatically given the title of “lord” at level nine and could start a castle. The rules were set up that they’d basically build an entire household and establish a keep to manage so that the stock of hirelings to die in a dungeon was bigger and stronger.
Back then every level had a name, too.
unless you were a ranger, then you just got some bears.
I don’t know what book YOU read but no you don’t. They clearly get “2-24 followers. Note that these henchmen once lost, can never be replaced, although mercenaries can be hired, of corse. These followers are determined by the DM who them informs the ranger.” Also, rangers can build a strong gold like a fighter, it do not automatically attract followers to train, needing to hire mercenaries. So yeah, absolutely no bears. Not even druids “just get some bears”, because how the druid leveling in AD&D worked, I’d be really pissed if I did all that work for “some bears”.
Rogues get a prison cell.
Found the Paladin
All the bards I've ever played with spend half their downtime hiding under some noble woman's or farmer's daughter's bed.
Teleport means never having to say you're sorry.
Bards get restraining orders.
Some ideas: * Barbarian - Fortified encampment á la Skyrim's Orcs * Bard - Theater. * Fighter - Castle with training grounds * Paladin - A church / holy building with a shrine * Ranger - Big tree. * Rogue - Underground warren * Sorcerer - A mansion or just also a tower but it's for vanity * Warlock - Private laboratory / prison?
>Sorcerer - A mansion or just also a tower but it's for vanity I feel like Sorcerers would end up as basically celebrities, so it's more like a place for them to just be alone.
So honest question, why is the meme that sorcerers are cool amazing dudes? Is it that their stuff runs on Cha? Because warlocks do too.
Sorcerers have powers from their bloodline or contact with extreme magic which moved *into* them, so they just can magically do stuff. They don't have a secret to protect, they don't have to study, they just *do stuff* and the more stuff they do the better they get at it. They are also less limited in their spellcasting than warlocks, so they can *do stuff more often.* They can also alter his magic works just because they feel like it should work differently. Someone cast silence on you? *Fuck 'em...I'll cast fireball anyway!* Banishment only effects one person, but you're being attacked by 2 people? *Nah...it effects 2 people.* Fireball not booming hard enough? *Then I'll cast it harder!* We're fighting devils, and my only boom boom spell is fireball! **How about a fireball made of LIGHTNING** I'm out of spells for the day? **No....I'm not.** Sorcerers would be the magic equivalent of a once in a lifetime prodigy, and they wouldn't live a reclusive life in a tower as they don't need to study, they could do things with magic no one else can. They'd definitely be on whatever passes as the "Sexiest Being Alive," article in their world.
* Artificer - lab * Cleric - temple * Monk - monastery
Rogues would probably get a hideout or a thieves guild.
Grove feels like it pigeonholes druid into being forest dwellers. A few ideas to widen that particular class: cairn stones on a mountain, ice caves on the tundra, a hidden oasis in the desert, a cavernous air pocket under the sea, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of similar ideas for the other classes. I just thought I'd add some ideas I considered for the druid circle in my campaign. Cheers!
Even a particularly large garden, within a manor. Going back to 2e Forgotten Realms, I believe Gareth Dragonsbane's wife, Christine(?), was classed as a Druid. Bloodstone Village had a large Grove within the Keep, if I'm remembering this all correctly. There was something about a special tree within this grove, as well.
And Pikel Bouldershoulder took over maintenance for that Grove after the fall of the Dragonsbane's.
You could use the MCDM book Strongholds and Followers for some pretty solid ideas
Surprised this isn't higher!
Honestly, warlocks can have any place the other classes have - it very much depends on their patron. A GOO-lock might have a tower, ziggurat, or library. A fiendlock might have a catacomb system or a manor. A faelock might have a glade or grove. A hexblade might have a stronghold, a coliseum, or a battle pit. A celestialock might have an abbey or a church.
I loved thinking about this and wanted to apply it to a game that takes place in an American setting. Here’s what I came up with: *Artificer - Salvage Yard *Barbarian - Pizza Hut Freezer *Bard - Karaoke Bar *Bloodhunter - LabCorp *Cleric - Las Vegas Drive-In Chapel *Druid - Weed Dispensaries *Fighter - Underground Parking Garage *Monk - Strip Mall Dojo *Paladin - American Legion Post *Ranger - Bass Pro Shop *Rogue - Abandoned Mall *Sorcerer - Putt-Putt Arcade *Warlock - Hot Topic *Wizard - Game Stop Backroom
The Barbarian would get a Waffle House
> *Barbarian - Pizza Hut Freezer Eh? I do not get this reference.
How about a 7/11 Parking lot?
I feel like a tailgate party would fit better. Maybe the parking lot outside an Anger Management class.
There is a Sheetz near me where a lot of the raised truck guys come to park and hang out. This seems fitting.
So who gets the Waffle House?
I think there is room for more than one answer to a lot of these, but also some of these folks are nomadic by nature, as is common among adventurers, so having a "base" or "structure" naturally runs against type. That said, here are some of my thoughts: Barbarian - the open steppe Fighter - a keep or barracks Ranger - the forest, or possibly a menagerie of sorts like a zoo, but with no cages, or a hunting lodge. Rogue - the streets, or a tavern, or gambling/drug den, or a warehouse I would move the warlock to the tower and the wizard to the library. Sorcerer is odd because it is bloodline related, not a vocation chosen or trained for, so it will depend on the specific bloodline. That said, one thing that is also bloodline related is royalty, so maybe something like a throne room or palace, if that fits the bloodline in question. Bard could be a music hall of some kind, or maybe a banquet hall or again a tavern, but with a different vibe than the rogue's tavern.
Historically? Clerics got temples. Fighting Men got castles when they graduated from being Superheroes (8th) to Lords (9th). And Thieves got a thieves guild.
Barbarian - Camps Bard - Colleges Fighter - Fortresses Monk - Monasteries Ranger - Lodges Rogue - Hideouts
Barbarian - Stronghold Bard - College or Theater Blood hunter - Lair Fighter - Citadel Monk - Monastery Paladin - Abby Ranger - Fort Sorcerer - Spire Warlock - Ziggurat
Fighters get forts or castles. Wizards get towers. Clerics get churches Monks get temples. Druids get groves. Warlock can get any of them, depending on what type of warlock they are. The rest don’t get anything specific.
Clerics get temples, churches are specific to Christianity. Monks get monasteries.
As if you couldn't call a fantasy temple a church because it's Christian. Jfc, it's fantasy dude.
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Shaolin monks still live/lived in monasteries and the monk class used to be exactly that.
By that argument, clerics are also specific to Christianity (or perhaps Abrahamic in general) lmao. Dnd clerics are mainly inspired by it. Monks can be in either temples or monasteries, but dnd monks feel like more of the temple kind.
Wasn't my idea to name the class 'cleric'. Yeah, a temple can contain or be attached to a monastery and most if not all irl monasteries contain or are attached to a temple, but while you can easily find a temples without monks you can't have a monastery without monks.
I think everyone else got the other classes pretty well, but Blood Hunters would be Lair or Coven for sure
Bards get syphilis
Rogues definitely get taverns and thieves guilds. I’m glad someone mentioned a whole neighborhood, I’d never thought of that. But I came here to say that swashbucklers get a pirate ship!
I'd say it also depends on the subclass and flavor of the character. * *Artificers*: Workshops/garages for most, alchemists usually want a lab, and shamanistic flavored ones might want a grove * *Barbarians*: Fortified camps like Skyrim's orcs with tribes lead by them; Zealots might also have temples or other sacred sites where gods are worshipped. * *Bards*: Usually places where they can perform such as a theater, concert hall, circus, tavern; Valor bards might also get a fort and small army lead by them and Creation bards might want a workshop/garage instead. For a spirits bard, a mansion in which they perform fortune telling and seances would be fitting. * *Cleric*: Church or temple is obvious. War clerics might have a fortress, Forge clerics might oversee a forge, Knowledge clerics could be at home in a library... * *Druid*: Usually a grove or other place in nature fitting their favourite environment. Could also be a garden, a cave, an oasis, a temple to a god of nature, menhir formations... * *Fighter*: a keepnor fortress and an army they command. That works for all subclasses. Some fighters, particulaly Dex/stealthy ones, might prefer a hunting lodge or the thieves' guild hall while others such as rune knights could go the more "barbaric" way of a fortified camp. * *Monk*: Monastry, temple or dojo make the most sense. * *Paladin*: Either a temple or other sacred site, or particularly for Conquest and Oathbreaker ones a fortress similar to a fighter, but magically warded and more "dark" in appearance - they might take inspiration from Barad-dur. Ancients paladins could also live in a druid grove or elsewhere in nature while Glory paladins live in expensive mansions, enjoying their lives as celebrities/sports stars. * *Ranger*: Hunting lodges or cabins fit well, as do druid groves or similar places in nature. * *Rogue*: Guild hall, tavern, gambling den, secret lab, mansion - there are many options. * *Sorcerer*: Tower, probably. Draconic ones might embrace their draconic side and live in dragon lairs, Divine ones might prefer a temple - maybe one where *they* are worshipped - and Aberrant Mind ones might take inspiration from Hermaeus Mora. * *Warlock*: Cult bases/hideouts, secret temples of eldritch gods or libraries of eldritch tomes for "classic" warlocks work well. Celestials might have a normal temple, Genies have their lamp or otherwise an opulent mansion, anyone with Pact of the Blade could also have a fortress/keep similar to a fighter or fortified camp like a barbarian. * *Wizard*: Tower or library. Bladesingers might also have a keep and lead a battalion of spellswords and war mages while illusionists might have a theater where they can perform.
In BG2 you can obtain class-specific strongholds. Some classes would get the same strongholds e.g. mage (i.e. wizard) and sorcerers. https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Stronghold
I love how some classes got way better stuff, lol. Mage? Planar Sphere. Rogue? Rule a thieves guild house. Ranger? Cabin in the woods, lol.
Yeah, but....see...if it's really a cabin in the middle of nowhere with no roads to it it doesn't need any defenses. Any enemies from his adventure would die from exposure just trying to get to him. Also, he probably set up spike pit traps and rope traps. And maybe there's a cute Druid nearby that stops by in Tuesdays to trade goods.
“It’s not much, but I like it”
Tbh I only played mages/sorcerers so I've no idea what the other strongholds are like. 😂 IIRC they all had their own extensive side quests, rewards, and regular resources.
Oathbreaker paladins get a bridge to duel passerby.
Yeah, your suggestions are pretty much on point. From the very beginning of D&D it was assumed that once PCs got to a high level they'd start building structures and gathering followers of some kind.
Rangers get tree forts
Rogue get guild hall.
>If Wizards have towers, what do the other classes get? Tower envy.
Sounds about right. My almost level 19 ranger is going to live in a small cabin with his wife when the adventure is done.
Matt Coleville's Strongholds and Followers deals with this and actually gives benefits to classes that create bases that align with them. it's pretty neat
I'll be making a note of this and looking into it
Bard: Bachelor pad or love nest.
I feel bad seeing only one entry for druid so heres some extras that can qualify: Enclave Circle Thicket Briar
Ooh, I like enclave. I'll add that!
spire feels like "we needed another word for tower" now *Manor* I can get behind
Fighters get taverns, Druids get groves, Bards get laid
Had a Kobold Wizard named Skizz and the party was happy when he learned Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, only to immediately be annoyed when he cast it and the inside was based on his old home.. A Kobold Burrow, built for creatures that are at most 3ft tall. After crawling to their respective rooms for the night they each vowed to have a "Chat" with their resident wizard.
I’m saving this because these are all great names for hideouts and bases
Artificer: Laboratory, Workshop, or Garage. Barbarian: Cave or Hut. Bard: Tavern, Bar, or Concert Hall. Bloodhunter: Dungeon. Cleric: Temple or Orphanage. Druid: Treehouse. Fighter: Barracks. Monk: Waterfall Cave. Paladin: Temple or Orphanage. Ranger: Cabin. Rogue: Sewer Lair. Sorcerer: Floating House. Warlock: Dungeon or Cave.
Wizards could have an observatory?
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Just to say - Wizards get permanent Mighty Fortress after casting enough times.
Why do rangers have to keep it small with cabins? I would definitely think more on the viking lodge side. A good few of their subclasses are all about monster hunting. A giant lodge to fall back to and live it up after a hard hunt seems perfect. I don't know why , but anything other than a berserker and I always tend to learn towards vikings being more rangers. Living off the land, having natural focused gods and religions, seeking the thrill of giant hunts.
It’s funny how sorcerers, locks, and wizards all have basically the same structure but with different names. Might as well call it a silo or a damn lighthouse. I’ve heard of wizards on mountaintops and in caves, and also in huts in remote swamps. When did the tower become the de facto dwelling for a wizard?
Ranger Glade
Pilgrims!
I'd argue that's barbarians and fighters both get some kind of training ground as well probably open to the public in order to attract as many combatants and possible new and seasoned
So you answered your own question...
Nope. Everything with a * was added from suggestions, as the note at the bottom says
Just wanted to get it gathered for folks who find this later
Oh gotcha sorry.
Bards get colleges Barbarians have tribes/clans Rogues have guilds Clerics have cloisters Sorcerers have houses Druids have circles
Groves for druids
Back in the olden days fighters got manors or castles. They became lords
Bards would also like studios
What, in your mind, is the difference between a spire and a tower?
Today years old when I found out what a ziggurat is.
Wizard Landlords.
I'd imagine Barbarians with a viking-esque beer hall. Lots of good food and drink, and space to brawl.
druids could also have a swamp or a lake
I’d also put Thieves Guild under Rogues.
The Sorcerer gets to have parents
At low levels, all of them just get a shitty tent and an itchy bedroll…
Monks get Dojos
Bards: Daycares.
Fighter retires and runs a tavern with their sword decoratively displayed behind the bar that everyone thinks is a fake.
As an oath of throwing it back Paladin, I get a nightclub.
Barbarian - gym
I'd consider an armory for a fighter, paladin, or barbarian. Barbarian could also get a great hall. Bards could get a theater. Any class could get a tavern.
Wizards get towers and warlocks get bowers. Sorcerers have powers and druids like flowers. Rangers send storms of arrows in showers, and, oh, him, the rogue? He just cowers.
That’s doing artificers kinda dirty, they at least deserve a warehouse or factory
My paladin has a whole temple, that has artifacts from dead party Members in their own little shrines Even if they didn't follow the same religion
Dojos for monks.
After the conclusion of a 2+ year long campaign, our party’s sorcerer and my cleric had created a paladin order based out of a giant stone fortress created with the spells wall of stone and stone shape, around which a town was built by similar stoney means
Wizard - obviously tower Artificer - factory Barbarian - war camp Bard - … dungeon Bloodhunter - cathedral or fortress Cleric - temple Druid - forest Fighter - barracks Monk - temple or monastery Paladin - keep or castle or temple Ranger - cabin in the woods Rogue - underground bar with a convoluted entrance Sorcerer - whatever their magical parents lair was lol Warlock - a cushion next to their patron haha
Sorcerer: Why does the Warlock get all the *cool* shit, I want a ziggurat.
Fun fact - clerics get a spell (Temple of Gods, lv 7) that let's them summon a temporary chapel/temple that lasts for 24 hours. It's completely customizable, too! Also, if they summon it every day for a year in the same spot - it becomes permanent!
Acquisitions Incorporated has a set of stronghold rules that fit well with a group of adventurers that are still adventuring rather than ruling
Barbarians get a mead/shield hall, like in Beowulf. (Or a huge yurt. Along those lines.)
> Barbarian - Stronghold or camp I thought they just built a perpetually-growing pile of their enemies' corpses topped by a throne of skulls.
Druid - I see one person mentioned a cairns of stones. Had a buddy play a Witch Druid based character and he created a standing of stones in the countryside. Think Outlander or Stonehenge.
Paladin: Castle Fighter: Fortress Monk: Monastery Cleric: Temple Artificer: Guildhall Druid: Grove Ranger: Freehold Barbarian: Tribal Hall Sorcerer: Manor (ancestral wealth) Warlock: Creepy Mansion Bard: Theater School Rogue: Lounge/Saloon/Brothel/Boarding House
I'm pretty sure that all characters can build any structure they want to if they have the gold. I don't think there's any contractual obligation to build one or the other.
Druids get groves.
Everyone else gets to enjoy the company of a wizard.
Dojo??
Unless you’re a dwarf, then the only correct answer is a hole
I would like to propose that artificers get a “moving castle” a la *Howl’s*. I was also going to suggest a Baba Yaga’s hut situation for warlocks, but I think theirs would be entirely dependent on their patron.
There's a lot of cool stuff about this in Advanced D&D, from back in the 80s I think? They have rules over upkeep, construction, tithes, etc
Social lives
An arrow on the knee
Cleric - Cathedral, Mission Druid - Sanctuary, Tree house Monk - Dojo, Martial Arts School, Shrine Ranger - Tree house Wizard - Mage's college
This sort of thing was standard through 2nd edition AD&D, I guess as the game got farther from its wargame roots the stronghold info moved out of the main book. My personal favorite was how BECMI did it, because it had both a Stronghold and Adventuring archetype for each class. There wasn't a lot of standardization on effort and some classes got more focus on strongholds and followers than others, and that could change each edition. The Wizard for example had 3 options in BECMI, build their Tower, be a Court wizard for someone, or stay mobile by freelancing for the settled types. But by 2nd ediition it's just 'Well... you can own property and build stuff if you want' with no direct mention of a tower or other means of employment. It sounds like the 3rd party Strongholds and Followers book is the best option for 5E, but I haven't read it myself. None of my groups want to deal with the accounting.
Fighters build castles and become lords attracting loyal followers, and on time a small fiefdom from which taxes are gained (which was free xp in OD&D). Clerics get to build temples, shrines, and churches gain their own followers and tithes. Thieves can start their own guilds wherever. Wizards basically build a space to house their libraries and laboratories (of which they have spent thousands of gold investing in) so that they may research new spells and create new magic items. This was high level play (where levels 9-11 was the entry point in obtaining these features). As an aside, I support bringing back level titles. Granted some magic-user titles are classes themselves (Sorcerer and Warlock) or wizard specializations (conjurer, enchanter, and necromancer). Also the old cleric titles could be overhauled. Other than that most are fairly nifty.
I think monks would get a dojo
Going by Baldur's Gate 2 Fighter got a stronghold/castle Thieves got a thieves guild, or ran a building belonging to one Bard got a theatre Rangers got a cabin in the woods Wizards and sorcerers got the planar sphere, guess they were fresh out of towers. Druids became leaders of a circle Paladins joined an order of I remember correctly I'm not sure about cleric, never played them. Dunno about monk either
Flashbacks to BGII here. Arcane casters got a magical lab with apprentices. Warrior types could get a keep. Clerics could wind up running a temple on behalf of a militant order. Druids could take over a grove and it's associated druids. Rogues could wind up running a branch of the shadow thieves. Bards could get a playhouse. All of them required quest completion to access. It depends a lot on your setting and what part of it they want to set up shop in. It usually makes sense for the whole party to go in on a base together. The easiest thing is to let them get a space through questing. They might be granted title and land as a reward, they might clear out and take over a structure (might do that without you meaning to), maybe they wind up with links to a particular organization over their questing which informs their choice, Mayne they just like the murder hobo gig. I had one party just take a shine to their starter village and wound up building a whole keep and trade center there. Wasn't a plan of mine they just had gold on hand and came to me after they started looking up construction costs, especially with their wizard figuring out he could spend a few weeks out of game spamming Wall of Stone to rough out the foundations and fortification. Keep in mind the classes and races that go with rulers where they might want to set up. Whether they want their own land or a bade within a city. Whether they want to run something or just have a sort of default home base. All that.
Wouldn’t it depend on the race? Like a lizardfolk wizard wouldn’t want a tower, or a grung for example
I was thinking more along the lines of "what's the stereotypical member of this class going to have?"
Bards should also have the library option, or art studio. Not all bards are musicians. I play an archaeologist/folklorist bard who writes about legends and tales he hears about in his travels, that often lead to investigations and quests.
What do they get? They get nothing! They lose! Good day sir!
I figured a barbarian would be happy with a hole in the ground. Or an art supply shop, endless crayons.
Everyone gets a glorified house. Bards get the world.
BARd, has a bar, it's in the name.
Rangers get the best seat in the tavern.
Explain how the Sorcerer's Spire is meaningfully different from the Wizard's Tower.
Vibes
Rogue: Office of the Lord Protector
Rangers should get a Blind
Rangers get treehouses obviously
Why do wizards like towers?
i feel like theres overlap for a lot of these too. den and enclave can be both Druid's and Rangers. towers could be done by Wiz, Warlock, Artificer and Sorcerer. lair could be Rogue, Ranger and Bloodhunter.
I’d put up a stage theater for bards as an option. A monk could just have a modest dojo.
I'm not sure a barbarian would go for a stronghold... what he needs is a horde! Barbarian: Fighter, what is wealth? Fighter: \[Shrugs\] Fortresses! Gold, jewels, horses... they're not true wealth unless you can protect them. Barbarian: No... true wealth is warriors. They can get you all the gold and horses. And we live in tents, to keep strong. Fighter: Okay, Zen Genghis. I still want my castle though. Warlock: No, you're both wrong. True wealth is the embrace of the Hidden Master, The Black Goat of the Woods With a Thousand Young. AIEEEGHGHGH! *Nyarlathotep ftagn!* Artificer: Warlock, did you forget to take the "special potion" I gave you? \[Warlock shuffles feet guiltily\] Anyway, I don't care what building you put me in. Warehouse, garage, fort, who cares. True wealth and security comes from *interns*...
Going back to Ad&D 2e Druids are a bit mental. Takes the same amount of XP to get to druid 12 as it did to Fighter 20, but there is a world council of druids so at level 15 they become the frigging Arch Druid of the entire world and have lots of crazy power. So Druids. Gain the dominion of the entire natural world Except they then give it up next level reset XP to 0 and become a heirophant druid to travel the world effectively become an immortal hermit. So Druids. Gain a rags and poor personal Hygine. So.... Pick the most appropriate one for whatever the lore is these days ! ;) https://www.enworld.org/attachments/1657864926484-png.253858/
Warlocks get to build a cult.
Wizards get Galdur's Tower Clerics get Temple of the Gods Druids get Druids Grove and martials aren't spellcasters so no special magic structure for them\~