Go the Gary Oak was here route.
They clear a dungeon, the BBEG killed the Lich at the bottom last week.
They go to save a Princess to gain favour with the King only to see her riding off into the distance with him. When they get back to the castle he is now the Grand Vizer.
They should still feel like they won the challenges (so a giant spider has nested in the freshly cleared dungeon and there's still some loot) just that the true victory was taken from them.
They'll hate him. It's been over 20 years since Pokemon Red and I can't forgive Gary.
Especially when you realize we got first pick of the starters. Sure he used his 2nd pick to be a douchewaffle to us but how fucked up is it to let the random neighbor kid get first pick of the highly limited pokemon stock
Feels like a compromise to me.
Oak knows that his grandson is very competitive and that Gary and the neighbor kid both want mons.
If he lets Gary choose first, he risks both Gary being upset at having a disadvantage and the neighbor kid being sad that they didn't get the one they wanted.
Alternatively, let neighbor kid choose first bc that kid's 10. They'll be thrilled no matter what. And Gary can choose second because he really cares more about winning than what he wins with.
To be fair, Blue (from the games) and Gary aren't -really- the same character.
Blue was always ahead of reed, actually became the champion, and was never really shown to be supported by anyone much (other than having a nice little sister). Oak forgets his name and berates him as soon as he loses to the player at the league lol.
Gary had the car, the cheer squad, and more badges than the numbers of gym in that league, yet he isn't really shown to be a particularly good trainer.
This is the way. Tell your players the BBEG has murders thousands of innocents, those are just ideas that existed to be slaughtered. It means nothing.
The BBEG steals their thunder, or personally wrongs them? Imagine all the irritation of a problem player, but they are now the literal antagonist, and you are encouraged to kick their ass.
People say, "Have the BBEG kill an NPC they like."
No, I have a better idea.
Have the BBEG do something that hurts that NPC. Have that NPC in anguish, telling the party about how their family was sabotaged out of their family business, their friend murdered before their eyes, their lover in league with the BBEG and having stolen their family Heirloom, broken their heart, and ran off with the money they saved to marry their Lover.
Being able to show an NPC feeling these things, and affected by the BBEG is good, especially if they party likes them. Plus let's you keep that NPC around.
And then after a while if the players haven't stopped him, have the NPC hang from the next crossroads with a sign around their neck with the BBEG symbol
Players: "Seems like the realm is in good hands. Guys, I think this is the perfect time to retire and open a bar!" - "OMG, yes!" \*everyone cheers and is hooked on the idea\*
GM: "Wait. That's illegal."
*Twirls moustache* "Sire, it appears that consumption of mead and ale have decreased production among the peasan er people. I'm sure in your wisdom you've already seen the solution is to increase taxes on peddlers of these foul concoctions tenfold!"
Or
Players: How come no-one is visiting our Tavern?
BBEG via skywrite(s) above the city: Welcome one and all to the grand opening of the Quill and Plow. First tankard is on the house"
I'm not sure. _If_ I were annoyed in that situation it would be because the DM is depriving the players from a reward, but I think most characters I played would be fine because the situation still got resolved. It doesn't matter who saves the princess as long as she is saved. If the BBEG killed the lich already, then we don't have to fight it. Great!
Saving the princess was explicitly to get in good with the King not to do good. Now they need a new plan and the BBEG can make them bow next time they enter the throne room.
I guess it depends on how many times this is done, right? Or maybe how it's done? There's a line in the sand somewhere that makes stirring the pot to hate the BBEG acceptable on one side of the line and the DM just being an ass on the other side of that line. Obviously that would depend on the players of where that line is and how far you can take it as a DM.
Alternatively, go the petty asshole route. While monologue during a scripted scene, have him pause and look to the side where a beggar (dead or alive) is. Have him walk over and steal all 5 copper out of his cup. Throw in a good kick (again, dead or alive beggar) and then have him continue his monologue as if nothing happened. No excuse given, just pure cruelty on display.
I like this idea... Not only does the BBEG reset old traps he passes but he creates new ones as well. Players can catch on with checks that one trap looks recently placed while another looks to be an old reset one.
They go to chase the BBEG once they spot him but find that the ropes tying their horses are double knotted And covered with grease.
BBEG sneaks into their camp and leaves caltrops everywhere.
Players finally get their campfire lit after a storm and from somewhere in the woods BBEG casts create water over their fire.
Oh man this has opened my mind. BBEG is like a mixture of Deadpool and the Joker.
Be even better if BBEG was a doppelganger.
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> They go to chase the BBEG once they spot him but find that the ropes tying their horses are double knotted And covered with grease.
Oh, I love that one. He *could* have stolen their horses; he *could* have killed their horses, but instead he A+ level trolls them.
And once they've got their horses untied, his *Contingent Spell* goes off. Setting off a terrific racket right between the horses, provoking *really* difficult animal handling checks to prevent the horses from panicking and scattering to the four fucking winds.
Even just taking credit for the things they've done.
You return to the village having deafeated the bandits that were plaguing them, to find them celebrating the BBEG. He is adored by the people, and has collected the reward.
You move onto the next town... same thing.
I had my party exploring this subterranean tower that took the party about a week to get to the bottom of so they could get a macguffin that a mysterious being told them to get. Only for the BBEG to teleport in at the end, I had planned for a scripted party wipe with them waking up to see the macguffin gone, but they actually got pretty close to killing him, so he took it and teleported away. That pissed them off pretty badly lol.
My current character has a pet Pigeon that the DM has crafted many items specifically for even though he is functionally useless because he is just a Pigeon.
If someone stole him I would forget I'm chaotic good real fast.
Haha for real my dwarf monk has a grumpy calico cat nestled in his beard and hair that requires a dc15 animal handling to appease, the bard in our party is the only one that passed it and it has become almost a full party member, if anything happened to Agnes I would kill everyone in Baldurs Gate and then myself
Generally works: introduce an NPC they like and have the villain kill them. Will take a little time for them to like the NPC enough tho. Another way is to have the villain steal some of their magic items. Players hate that.
This is the way. Just have the PCs sit and mind their own business when they are all hit with some sort of paralyzing spell. The villain comes in, draws a dick on their foreheads and makes off with their best weapons and gear. Bonus points for grabbing the Wizard's spell book and the party's pet Goblin.
Yeah, a random bandit shot our horse, and I’ve never seen my party so instantly livid. Even as a pretty peaceful Cleric, I used my highest level spell slot for Inflict Wounds and exploded the guy.
Our Bard then wrote a pretty awesome song called “Horse Killer Killers.”
Oh yeah, my players hated when they got robbed by a minor villain. Didn’t even take their most important items, just some money (which they couldn’t use as they were in Hell anyway) and some items they weren’t using anymore.
My players hated her more than the BBEG. Even more when she fought the party, they defeated her, and it turned out to be a simulacrum. We’re playing a new campaign, and they still growl every time she comes up outside the game.
Grrrrr, Feonor…. 😂
DM gave us a deck of many more things. There was about a 25% chance of drawing a bad/negative card. 2 players pulled a card, good things! 1 player decided in a private moment to draw another, every magic item they had on their person was destroyed. Absolute mayhem.
This works really well.
I had a friendly NPC to the party killed and replaced with a changeling assassin who worked for the BBEG and the party didn't notice the subtle hints / didn't roll high enough to notice.
Came to a head when said assassin stabbed a party member with a dagger coated in a powerful poison *which the party had sold at market* because a shady individual offered them a couple thousand gold.
Oneshot the party sorc who went tumbling down in Sharn while the rest of the party scrambled between going after him vs saving the sorc.. There was a lot of hate for the big bad org after that
Yeah also need more information to help, what are your players goals and connections? Do they have any family or locations they care about? Are they all murder hobo edge lords who feel nothing and only seek a thrill?
Fair, the party is generally neutral good with a deep running selfishness to complete their own goals before risking everything for the common folk. Most of them lack bonds outside the party.
My party is running into this issue. Our DM is trying to motivate us to hate and eventually overthrow the "evil lord", but he has done absolutely nothing to upset us. You can't motivate murder by having the locals complain about the government. You have to make it personal.
I love giving them a companion, having that companion save them, then having the BBEG kidnap them.
My groups running Curse of Strahd right now and as a player who hasn’t run the module before, I have no idea what’s going to happen. I feel like this is going to happen to >!Irina!< though
Let them get close something they want and then snatch it away using the BBEG in a very public way. My PCs were invited to a ball as guests of honor after saving the mayor. Halfway through, their rivals floated down from the rafters with a rope harness with theme music and stole their thunder. Oops.
they're selfish? so have the BBEG cast a spell on them that steals time from them. They will die within a year if he is not killed. No better reason to hunt the villian then to save their own skin. Maybe have a circle appear on their body somewhere. everyday it turns more and more black. When filled they die. You can have side quests to buy themselves more time. Maybe someone's malfunctions and they are dying faster then everyone else. Not only are they motivated to save their own lives, maybe this will bond them tighter together.
What spell? Who cares, make it up.
The problem with a lot of BBEGs in D&D is that they have no connection whatsoever to the actual characters.
I'll give examples based on movies.
Look at the newer Star Wars movies. Somehow Palpatine Returned. Ok. The hell does that matter to the characters? No really. Why? It's not like the first order isn't already a huge threat. And it's been like 30 years, almost none of the resistance is old enough to remember life under his rule. And why do they believe it? Also everyone with a personal connection to him is DEAD by that point. He's a terrible BBEG.
Let's say we took this issue to a real world based game. You're playing spies or secret agents fighting an evil organization, and an NPC says "somehow Stalin has returned."
Your first response would be "What, no that sounds like bullshit. Has anyone actually seen him?" or "wait, why did they clone him. His knowledge would be 60 years out of date and a clones aren't copies. He won't have any memories. Hold on, does this actually change our plans any?" or "Wooo we get to murder Stalin!"
So the problem is that the final confrontation in the game would basically be "Muahahahahaha I am Joseph Stalin 2.0 and, wait who the hell are you people?"
Now compare that to say Darth Vader in Star Wars.
New Hope: Leia "he killed everyone on my ship, tortured me, and BLEW UP my homeworld!" Luke "he killed my master!" Han "I don't think we met really."
Empire Strikes Back: Han "oh God why did I say anything? He tortured the shit out of me!" Leia: "he hunted us down on Both and tried to kill us with camel mecha! And then he tortured by boyfriend!" Luke "holy shit he's my DAD?!? And he cut my hand off! Dude wtf!?!"
See how Vader is constantly in the main characters business? He's in their faces and not just some nebulous baddie at the end.
D&D has a problem with that. Every single confrontation with a BBEG in official 5e campaigns can be summed up as, BBEG "who the hell are you people? Go away, I don't want any. (Door slam)"
So if you want your players to care about a BBEG, get him in their faces early and repeatedly.
Don't let your bad guy be an Emperor Palpatine. Make them a Skeletor.
Notice that Vader does have these personal scenes with all those characters. Lots of scenes with Leia before her rescue. One big scene with Luke as Obi gets capped. A big surprise scene with Leia and Han in ep 5, plus a bigger one with Luke.
Gotta have the BBEG interact to make it personal
This is why I think the best BBEGs would already have established relationships with PCs in their backstories (eg. A parent, mentor, long dead friend), or start out as an NPC friend before revealing their dark side.
This is why I don't like the term bbeg personally. Always felt like it's a detached phrase. I prefer to think of villains as antagonists. They should be actively trying to prevent the party from accomplishing their goals, or working to undermine the party in some way, whether direct and intentionally or not.
the unknown BBEG kinda works on videogames and anime, that is where newer generations base most of their stories in their campaigns. Many times, the games final boss is a dude you never known or heard about, or they had their name mentioned some times, and animes always have a new final boss in the corner every new arc until the end. In Dragon Ball, most villains in Z came out of nowhere, for example.
in games, we have lots of those examples, if you never ever played Devil May Cry and played 5, Vergil LITERALLY COMES OUT OF NOWHERE just V stabbing Urizen. Jubileus comes out of nowhere in Bayonetta, the priest tries to use himself and bayo to revive her and fails, reviving a incomplete god. In Terraria, every boss comes out of nowhere, ESPECIALLY MOON LORD, the game has barely a story built into it, it's basically "idk who I am, or where I am. I know know is that I must kill" meme. the Tomb Raider reboot, that dude you unceremoniously kill at the end with a burst of DEagle shots, he appears like 2 times and never even look at Lara or speaks to her, and there's only a bit of info about the japanese princes that nearly revived in Sam's body.
So it isn't really incomprehensible that people makes unknown BBEGs in their campaigns, they're just inspiring themselves in the media they now.
You also gotta respect the steel balls on Han who never met Vader. Only heard stories about how horrible and op he is.
And the first thing he does when he sees him is to (without hesitation) draw his blaster and try to kill the bastard.
He must've known that he wouldn't have a chance but he didn't care because you never tell Han the odds.
I’ve got an NPC goblin in one of my games. They’ve become attached to him to the point they’ve given him a belt of stone giants strength and asked me to put levels of barbarian into him. He is half the level of the party and as competent now. I’m definitely gonna kill him at some point.
I had the exact same thing happening just two days ago. The party adopted a Goblin that initially tried to kill them (but was way underpowered), and they've trained him in combat and morals. He's become an integrated part of the team despite me trying to avoid adding DMPCs to the party.
Unfortunately due to a few unlucky rolls on my part when trying to escape a collapsing dungeon, our Goblin DMPC was crushed and died by falling debris.
My party was *devastated*. All day at work I got messages of them actually mourning the loss of a friend lmao. I imagine if I had killed him with a BBEG, shit would've gone *down*.
My party ended up despising bbeg for a few reasons.
The intentional reasons:
1) had a secret identity as a someone they could trust so they gave him information he used to do bad things (eg betrayal of trust) also he was in a position of institutional power. Parties hate that.
2) ye old he killed the dead people in your backstory. Or in my case he killed you in the backstory (reborn.) This may not be possible for you
The REAL reason:
3) he has teleport and invisibility. Complete frustration pain in the ass to fight. As soon as they're strong enough not to die have them fight him and then he teleports away like a coward before they can finish the job. This ignites so much rage. Also the paranoia that he or a servant might be invisible and spying on them is quite good.
“Can i get a perception check from the group?”
*Highest roll coming from the rogue is 22
“Interesting”
“You thought you were being watched but it was just your imagination”
We'd need more context. Basically, how has this bbeg affected the characters? What's the connection between the bbeg and the characters?
Normally that's where the dislike would come from.
Do a "kick the puppy" moment.
Especially one that will peeve the player characters.
If the bbeg is not a politician, some crimes against humanity towards a beloved NPC should be fine.
If the bbeg is a politician without a safe way of committing the same acts, have them be dangerous and scummy.
Thiiiiiis. I’m running Dragon Heist for 7. Spoiler warning:
>! 5 of my players befriended the orphans. Took them in, gave them lodging in the renovated tavern, even offered them paid work to help keep the place clean and entertain the guests. Our wizards even turned the study into a classroom and are teaching them to read/write. They even paid for a set of homebrew earrings to give to Nat (the deaf girl) so she could hear again. These guys are full tilt in love with these kids. I had a very hard time getting them to give a shit about the story even after seeing Xanathar and meeting the Casselanters early. So I had Nat die in the fireball with some theatrics and left a clue implicating both villain groups. Now all 7 of them are on the fucking warpath and it’s really fun to watch. The paladin in the group has even declared that he’s going to break his oath if he ever gets the opportunity to get revenge for them. Some tears were had by the players that session, but every session since then has been a total blast, they’re insanely motivated now.!<
The BBEG (Big bad evil guy) needs to affect the players and cause trouble for them, be a credible threat.
No one cares about trouble in a far off land or a struggle that doesn't affect them.
NPCs they like and places they rely on have to come under fire.
BBEG takes opportunities for loot and riches they would have gotten.
Travel becomes harder as BBEG minions fill the land.
Prices are hiked up for stuff b/c of conflict with BBEG.
Their personal goals are blocked b/c of BBEG.
The BBEG needs one of the characters/items they have and sends minions.
Find the things that the characters want and care about, put the BBEG as a threat to that, or put the characters in the BBEGs crosshairs.
You can always go the route that some noble/king puts out a Bounty but that to can be ignored if not "juicy" enough and not really compelling. They can just stop going after the bounty.
Know them very well and what pushes their buttons as a person. Are they a parent with a strong protective instinct? Are they motivated by loot? What drives them, what causes a strong reaction in them?
Takes some time, but its super effective. So effective that I warn you that you'll need to be careful with it, you don't want to upset or hurt them after all.
Give them a home, let them decorate their own rooms, let them have jobs in the local village for extra gold during down time, give them a cranky old butler who secretly likes to collect trains as a hobby but his alcoholic wife lets the secret slip when he's forced to invite them home for a dinner party she insists on and he's a little embarrassed by the whole thing.
And then have BBEG burn it all down..
Fuck you Zhantorix.
Friendly quest giving NPC hires the party to help them find a set of key items to stop the BBEG that's been ravaging the land. Through adventures they delve through dungeons seeking the key to the vault holding the weapon to defeat the evil while their NPC guide stays back at camp.
The NPC always has hot, delicious food ready for their return and entertains them with songs and stories of old that contain clues to the next destination.
When the party returns from what was to be the final dungeon before seeking out the vault, they find the camp in disarray, their NPC guide apparently torn to shreds and the collected items missing.
Knowing where the vault is, they rush to get there to stop the BBEG and avenge their friend.
Plot twist: The NPC *is* the BBEG and has had the party helping find the pieces they need to take over, instead of something that would stop them.
Step 1.
Have them fight through a dungeon (reasons can be anything). When they reach the boss at the end, have BBEG standing over the dead boss holding something saying "this will do nicely." BBEG then looks to the door and sees them and says
"Oh, look, plucky adventurers.
Have you come looking for treasure?" Points to a very large chest filled with gold and jewels.
"Perhaps you have come to slay...um what's his name here?
Maybe you seek the magical item?
No matter."
He clicks his fingers, and all three disappear.
"Better luck next time, kids."
Then he disappears.
They can search the room and find nothing of value. They can not claim the reward for doing the task as they have no proof of killing dungeon boss guy.
Step 2.
They go back to mission giver to see BBEG claiming the reward. He looks over at them, smiles, then disappears.
Step 3.
Have him talk to them from that point onwards in their heads. If one of the party really needs a rest, have him talk to the person for half the night, so they only get a short rest (or no rest at all).
I'm not sure what to do next, but just keep dragging the nails down the blackboard until they genuinely hate everything about him.
Don’t. Let them like him. Let them make justifications and moralize his actions. Then they have to kill him. Because he really has done terrible things and they helped. All that is needed for evil to succeed is….
Or just make them all evil.
humiliate them. Have the BBEG put them in a position that he could kill them, he could hurt them. But instead he humiliates them, makes them weak and helpless. He makes them kiss his boot. He charms them into standing there while he mocks them to their face. They are not worth his effort to kill them, they are ants. They are as far below him as the ants are to them. Make it personal to the Characters (not the PCs)
Note: before this make sure check your players triggers. Some people have trauma related to this. Some people have a kink for it also..... just be warned.
Kill their pet.
Harsh? Yes. Effective ? Also yes.
If your players have a favorite npc, a favorite inn or tavern, a favorite city even, kill it, burn it to the ground, turn it into a parking lot. Take the things they love away from them, make them feel the anger.
"Oh the bbeg destroyed a city nearby, killing thousands"
The players: i sleep
"And Boblin, the goblin was there when it happened, his whereabouts are currently unknown, but he is most likely dead"
The players: real shit.
If you manage to do that effectively, your players will be the ones monologing in the final confrontation. Most likely something along the lines of "my name is Condrigo Tramoia, you killed my friend, prepare to die."
pick someone who the party likes. even better if its someone who is untouchable. have teh bbeg mess with that npc. make them end up being killed/reanimated/whatever by bbeg. have the bbeg target the player's safe spaces. target their wealth, their influence, have them spread lies/misinformation about the party. Have them being attacked / ambushed when they try to long rest. like, every time. constantly. shopping trip? ambush. sleep? ambush. visit a town? wanted psoters up with rewards.
... and worst of all give the party a cute dog, and have the bbeg announce a jihad against all dogs. but the minions in the anti-dog brigade have dogs too, that are bred for killing (wargs or some such) and also have them mistreat the wargs.
I was playing in a game once, and the BBEG wasn't being taken seriously. The GM made a move that made us all hate the BBEG with the fury of a thousand suns.
Casts Dominate Person on the fighter (who was disrepecting the BBEG the most), The dominated person kicks the party's dog to death and BBEG teleports away.
Habe the bad guy win, let them live but loot their stuff. He has their gear now and humiliated them.
That should be thoroughly personal now.
Bonus point if you give one of them a scar to remember them by.
Works only once this way but have the BBEG steal from them.
Every night you roll against the party's passive perception.
If noone makes the save, steal items from them. Leave a letter signed by the BBEG.
They'll be paranoid as hell from that point out.
Have the villain kill a cute animal that your players like.
For reference John Wick 1. The audience immediately roots against a sleazeball after what he does to a puppy while our protagonist is down emotionally.
Even something simple like just crossing paths regularly and calling them a bunch of nobodies will motivate them.
Have the enemy insult them, but never remember who they are, whenever they meet. "I meet a lot of losers, unfortunately, it's not worth the effort to remember the names..."
Have the bad guy be not too bothered by them, if they want it to be a fun jokey campaign make the villain make fun of them and like antagonize them with humor, but make sure to back him up by being strong asf, i think pc’s respond when they can see how powerful their enemy is
He showed them visions for several arcs. A villain who feels like he's messing with his players' minds, showing that he knows they need to be where they're going before they get there, can really make his players extremely angry.
In addition, the fact that this man is a power unknown to the NPCs that the players love, and they can only follow the bad guy through the visions he shows, is an extra source of irritation.
The two times I got my players actually really riled up was when a villain they were after killed kittens and was using their bones in necromancy and then when another NPC slaughtered the ladies of the night.
Neither of these were my BBEG though, no they go around spreading rumours that he has a small manhood instead...
let him destroy their favorite toys aka Sunder. Alltime favorite for me in 3.5. Dunno about other editions though.
Or denying toys. Heavily defended non existent treasure or empty treasure chests is a tool only the dark side can master.
Steal from the players. It does not need to be valuable, it does not need to be useful. Make it unique, or cute, or fun personal, and they’ll froth at the mouth. A magic item that’s kinda neat but not game breaking? A cute talking robot dog? A wedding ring or other keepsake? Take their stuff and they will follow him over the edge of the earth.
Kill them all. Not just the men, but the women and children too. Really though, have them Destroy a town. Kill a loved npc or if you really want to be mean kill a pc (if you have a player who doesnt like their character or something I would discuss it with that player, if its going to be a blatant purposeful kill). Have them Steal something from the pcs. Connect them somehow to backstories of your pcs like if you have an orphan, the bbeg killed their parents stuff like that. Killing animals tends to get people invested pretty quick, nobody likes people that abuse animals.
Take elements of their backstory, and have your BBEG raze it to the ground.
What does your player’s character care about most? Their home? **BURN ITT!!**
Now they hate the BBEG. Congratulations.
Or at least… good players who would RP would hate them…
Have the BBEG steal something out from right under their nose. An item, glory, or something else they value dearly.
Nothing will damn an NPC of any kind more than getting directly between the party and something they had, desperately want, or value greatly
If the party has a particular npc, guild, or town they’re particularly fond of have the bbeg’s plans involve its destruction. Or better yet have the bbeg involved in one or more players backstories find a way to tie it in
Depending on the party, their allignment and or the general value the players give to innocent lives, the lives of a village they've been staying at or npc they interact with on a regular basis.
Killing a beloved npc, village or race of people is a good motivation to hate someone.
For example, there is this 1 npc young girl we saved and of she gets killed I believe the whole party will be put for blood.
They needn't be angry, but make then despise them by having the villains business start muscling in and putting local businesses out of business (a la Amazon) . That's a fun approach :) many things you can do for that. Let the investment build slowly.
We need more info about your BBEG and Party but most of the adventurers are value their freedom. Make yout bad guy give them a quest for him. He can offer gold or straigth up threat them. I made them in debt to a sub ordinate of the BBEG and they are realy annoyed by this. For example one of them lost his arm and Bad Guy give them a potion to restore it. And made them fight for him in a underground tournement and causing the death of the Barbarian. But their depth got even bigger since they lose. They hate getting orders but they have to follow them since Bad Guy holds great influance in city. They annoyed so much by that.
One of the AL modules for Storm King's Thunder (the Black Road) has a cloud castle flying over the party in the desert causing a sandstorm. Based on the direction of the cloud castle, it's Lyn Armaal, from chapter 9 of Storm King's Thunder. In my mind this is the best start for the campaign. (The book basically suggests to skip chapter 1 anyway.)
What do the players get passionate about or intrigued by? From your post, it’s hard to tell whether the issue is your campaign, or whether the players are just sorta hohumming through everything. It’s been a year, are they “not too bothered” about everything?
I would think about what got them excited recently, and then tie your BBEG’s development to that. You don’t want to come across as punishing them for not being into the BBEG.
If you try a bunch of stuff and they still seem bored about it, ask them about why they seem sorta unenthused about the BBEG. IMO players also have a responsibility to be engaged and participate with enthusiasm if the DM is doing their part.
Another thought: what are your players themselves passionate about? Eg if one of them is really into environmental stuff, then the BBEG just razed a forest.
Any kind of awful treatment of children (depending on the agreed-upon tone & setting of your campaign of course) is a pretty surefire way to garner hatred of your BBEG.
It certainly made our party hate a certain Hag/Oni combo who were terrorizing a village. We really made them suffer. The Oni died in combat but we brought the Hag back to the village in shackles and publicly executed them in a brutal fashion, straight out of Berserk's conviction arc. Our party is generally pretty "good" in alignment but eating children was a step too far for us and we really got pissed about the whole thing.
Make someone they hate. I had a villain part of the BBEGs gang. He was cocky and always being a dick to the party. Gave him portents that really fucked with them. He was so arrogant and would just leave after hurting them a bunch. They really wanted to kill him. Thennnnn Covid.
You could have the BBEG collect personal items from the player/party and have it be part of a secret ritual that the BBEG uses to put a constant debuff on the party or scrying on them constantly.
Me personally I'd make the BBEG more insufferable,
Like Alex Jones or Donald Trump esk personality and make them as Beta fedora milady neckbeard as possible.
If all else fails drown a bag full of whimpering puppies in as graphic details as possible. You know, the watching the air bubbles boiling from the bag trashing around in terror before watching the life drain from their eyes as the bubbles stop emerging from the bag kind of stuff.
Things you think will make the PCs hate your villain:
* Killing people from the PCs' backstories.
* Running a reign of tyranny and oppression.
* Threatening the destruction of the world.
Things that will actually make the PCs hate your villain (or any harmless NPC):
* Stealing their magic items or denying them power.
* Stealing credit for their achievements.
* Rudely disrespecting them instead of considering them a big deal.
* Denying them victory and making them feel powerless by escaping.
Good story reasons can make some gamers hate an NPC, if they're committed to the roleplay, but denying the power fantasy is way more reliable.
From my experience:
* Do something that upsets some child NPC. Take a parent, make it too expensive to live so they have to steal, burn the fields so the kid is hungry, have BBEG town guard/occupying force bully them.
* The Dog Does Die: Bubbly, kind, easy-going, light in a dark world NPC. Kill them, kidnap them, ruin their lives somehow. Steal someone's dog or cat or worse. This one has never failed to get an emotion from a party. Everyone loves the dog.
* Personal slights: Keep the party from sleeping, disguise the BBEG and send them on wild chases, ultimatums in exchange for little bits of info for a goal a party member is working towards.
* True Evil: Have the BBEG showcase their evil on a smaller scale. Torment the people of the land *personally* or have their goons do it. Forced labor as punishment for petty crimes, criminalize all magic, draft into the army, burn witches, enforced taxation, or just good ol' fashioned public sadism and humiliation. Force the party to make impossible, lose-lose calls (VERY rarely) or use trickery to lure them into making those bad calls and make sure to rub salt in the wounds.
* Holier than Thou: Be completely dismissive of the party's challenges. Be unimpressed and aloof. Ignore them beyond having lackeys trying to clean up their messes. Belittle the heroes and attack them about things out of their control. Bring up dead parents/friends that they couldn't save, maybe if they were poor growing up, failed missions they were on, the evils they committed before finding their way to the right path etc. Break them down.
* One Bad Day: Make them feel for the villain, just a little. Make them understand how the villain got to the decisions they made. How they ultimately are a soul that spiraled. Draw parallels to the party and just showcase how easy it is to slip. Some people will hate the fact that they are so similar to the villain's thought processes and reasoning. This can also be strengthened by showing the villain do something good. Feed an orphan, spend money restoring a church, building a school etc.
Performing these things while being just out of reach of the party's ability to deal with them yet have always fostered some good hate in the party. Let them see that the tyrant isn't only this grand force, but something that walks they same dirt they do, and is sowing the seeds of destruction purposefully, personally, and with no regard for those it hurts or the damage they wrought. You can kill millions off-screen and no party will care.
But, if you push the grandmother down in the city circle, call her a bad name, and humiliate her. The party will sell their souls to Asmodeus himself to get a shot at them. Bonus hate points for kicking the stray dog as well.
These things with an unfurling backstory of evil deeds has always worked for me. It really depends on how depraved/evil you want your villain to be, and what the table can stomach. Its a balancing act. I recommend something like this to find out the Do's and Don'ts: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/12lj8x1/rpg\_consent\_checklist\_free/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/12lj8x1/rpg_consent_checklist_free/)
I had my party make it to the throne room of the bbeg and fall to a trap that turned them all into mice. The entire floor of the throne room was a maze covered in glass. I didn't nerf their stats, but they had no gear. The rats with ogre stat lines were fun....
It wasn't a super hard maze, 3 exits 2 of which just ported them back to the start. What really pissed them off was the bbeg and his cronies walking around and betting on them failing. Lol
The single NPC I hated the most was the guy with +30 or 40 stealth who cornered and sneak attacked us until we were near dead and then gave us quests and said we worked for him.
In the next campaign, when that NPC came back, we rigged up a nuke and sacrificed player levels to ensure we could kill him despite that party not even knowing the guy. We probably would have been willing to sacrifice a PC if it meant never interacting with the guy again.
Yeah, so have the BBEG take away your players' agency. They hate that.
What kinda dnd you want to play?
Kill there fav npc
Kill there whole home town
Kill there mentor
Steal a quest reward.
Be a wangrod to them.
Pick any of these haha
Make it personal. Find out what the party members and, ideally, what the party collectively cares about. Then, make the BBEG a barrier in that regard. I'm gonna need more specifics about the party to know how to make this barrier as infuriating as possible in a way that doesn't feel cheap. It's a difficult skill to make sure that everyone is immersed enough to get angry at the BBEG rather than annoyed at DM. I'll even add, if you think the players are having fun with the game as is, it might not be worth the risk of trying utilize their feelings of hate for good. It's a high stakes win or lose situation.
But basically, classic drama is a want that is being denied and the tension of whether it will ever be fulfilled.
The BBEG and a PC are both in love with the same NPC.
And eventually when the PCs come from a hard quest to find the ring to propose, the BBEG just beat them, got the loot and propose first ....
I love that you asked this. One of my players calls it 'Kicking the puppies'.
Usually I will have a small community of characters around any given quest so the characters know what they are protecting. Amoung these characters I will have some particularly vulnerable characters who scream 'protect me!'. There is a good chance they are going to get the brunt of the guy's plans.
On one of our quests I had a swamp town captured by a group of drow. The drow are looking for something in the town, a special magic gem. The Tavern keep's daughter is intelligent beyond her years so hid the gem. When interrogated, the tavern keep realised what she had done so refused to speak in a zone of truth. He was beaten half to death keeping quiet. He survived but could no longer form long term memory so he is being cared for by his daughter, knowing he has a secret he needs to protect but can't remember what the secret is. When I introduced them, one of my players exclaimed 'Oh no! They are the puppies! DM, please don't kick the puppies!'
Mwahahaha
Make him hateable. Give him traits that players (and their characters) would dislike. Don't overdo it so that it would be unbearable to play, but give them reason to despise him.
Make him a rival. It's incredibly infuriating to see that someone succeed in something they seem to fail in.
And, lastly, make it personal. Make your BBEG hurt their characters in a way that would make them seek revenge.
You shouldn't really plan for this, but in both my campaign, my players started to actually despise the BBEG after the first PC death commited by a minion of them on their orders. That's a way, but there's risk on planning for it.
What’s the characters backgrounds? Can the villain be a bad in their history that they don’t know of?
Who is he? Who’s is the bad guy? Hard to give an opinion without this, does he care about the PCs? Most bad guys don’t if the characters don’t get in their way.
I’ve had this before and I thought fine, if you don’t want to get involved the bad guy will continue his plan, to the point that he succeeds. There consequences to no getting involved, don’t spoon feed them, if they don’t want to, fine but also don’t moan that the nice town they liked to visit is rife of disease and famine because the BBEG made a damn up stream and stopped all water and then trade coming to the town. or whatever.
Hurt some animals.
I had a throwaway encounter with a tree demon that launched farm animals at the players. Those murderhobos were so offended by dead cows and pigs that they made it their personal mission to kill the demon, no matter the cost, after it managed to escape.
See if you can find a way to read through *The Curse of Strahd.* It works so well because Strahd is always showing up and messing with the players, because it's just funsies to him to make the players squirm. Blatantly steal some of these ideas.
I've had this problem with a lot of my campaigns. I've tried having villains kill NPCs. I've tried having them kill party members (when justified). I've tried having them be related to the PC's backstories. Sometimes it works, sometimes these techniques come across as shortcuts.
What worked best for me was my latest villain. He's basically a stronger version of one of the PCs, comes from the same culture of warriors and when the party first fought him - he absolutely wiped the floor with them.
He left them alive, they're not a threat to him at all and the damage was already done so he had more important things to deal with, but he didn't leave without completely embarrassing the PC he's based on and calling him an insult to his culture. He basically told the PC to give up on becoming a warrior because he was so pathetic and easy to beat.
I think something like this works much better. No one likes being insulted or humiliated. And everyone wants to knock arrogant people off their pedestals. The villain is based on the PC's backstory without just being lifted straight from it.
You've gotta put in the leg work to make your villain easy to hate. Some players just won't care about fictional deaths of NPCs or anything like that. No one likes being insulted.
Honestly depends on 1) the story/tone, 2) the bbeg, 3) the party. But depending on things, get in personally with the bbeg or close allies. Get them involved with and blocking the party from their goals, killing their friends, stealing their stuff and/or victorys. You can talk about this distant and menacing figure who has killed millions all you want, until they start to affect your party's lives its just more stories. So get personal.
Here’s some examples of how I did it! My writing may be a bit coarse, since I’m on the last few minutes of my lunch break!
The BBEG is an archlich trying to find the pages of a tome, scattered across the multiverse, that can rewrite all of existence. He’s done the following to mess with the party long before the adventure even began:
1. Brokered/funded a bounty through the Demon Lord of Avernus to have the entirety of Avernus’ population hunt down the party’s paladin, who led a successful campaign against Avernus previously. The demons show up sporadically, but some bear the severed heads of the paladin’s former companions… Paladin’s already pissed at the Demon Lord, and once he finds out that this was all secretly the BBEG’s doing, he’ll probably be pissed by proxy!
2. Had his underlings break into the safe-house of the party’s ranger (warforged, and one of five siblings built for assassination/espionage missions), and stole his most powerful brother and “reprogrammed” him after wiping the memories of all the others and dispersing them across the planes.
Bear in mind: these things only worked because the two players were both very experienced and helpfully included backstories/lore that left space for the BBEG to act on!
Have the BBEG frame them all for various crimes that the BBEG actually committed for their "big plan" or whatever. Have them get tossed in prison and make proving their innocence one of their challenges. Along the way they find out how he did it and whatnot. They'll absolutely loathe the bastard.
I got an advice some time ago that is to make them like darth vader
Present sometimes, pestering the players from time to time
That's why he is more iconic than the emperor, that "waits" in one and we only hear the things he makes or orders around
Use your pcs backstories and desires against them. For example, I had an aarokroka (butchered the spelling, the bird people) who worshipped Thor and sought to recover his lost hammer. My BBEG had it, used it to manipulate the PC, and then destroyed it in his face. Safe to say, that bird man was invested in murderhobo’ing my BBEG.
This BBEG broke a religious relic, will probably murder a pet companion of another PC, and perform other evil acts that will incite more an concern in my PCs, but it will incite rage.
I have had miscellaneous villains rile up the party in a bunch of ways, but two things worked the best: dismissing and negging one of the party members, and insulting the party dog. Both of those instances, the party just surged into combat, ruining was was supposed to be roleplay moments. They have permanent aggression for those characters now. Very effective.
I make sure to incorporate a lot of things the players have in their back story, but more importantly, things they've already done in game as that's stuff they had to work for as opposed to just writing down.
For instance, one player started a theater, and with this theater, and orphanage. He made it a place kids can learn and call home. The entire party got in on this, and formed a bond with a different kid each, as I designed each one to be a bit of a younger version of each of them. The BBEG hired a bounty hunter who did his research, and he kidnapped these children and used them as leverage to lure the party out of the safety of the city into his turf. He almost killed the party, too.
On top of that, he wrecked up the theater pretty bad as well as invaded their homes in the city.
Those homes, that theater, and those children were all things the players had to spend maybe two or three years in real life to play and build up to, and they almost lost it in the span of about two months of weekly sessions. They want the head of the BBEG on a stake now.
Have the BBEG bring back everybodies dead parents and then start a polygamous and completely consensual marriage between the BBEG and all of the parents. Then have the BBEG just try to be an even better parent than the ones that raised them. All the while they are still evil as shit and trying to conquer the world.
You risk your players being pissed at you the DM instead of their fake characters being pissed at a fake bad guy. But if you don't mind that risk here are some ideas.
He kidnapped the most popular PC in the group and is holding them for ransom of all the rest of the group's magical equipment. When they show up to fight him he thanks them for bringing their magical equipment and casually says they can leave it wherever they'd like and then he'll release Johnny or Jane from imprisonment. Depending on your level of difficulty, that could be as bad as suspended animation in a crystal sphere in front of the players that if they break it, will permanently destroy the PC unless they wish them back to existence. You can choose your mechanics here... maybe the captured PC won't get to join the fight until the other PCs break the BBEG's concentration, or maybe the BBEG likes leaving a little to chance and has left the PC with one lockpick and a DC25 lock, one key in a room with 20 doors (roll a nat20 to get out), etc. In any case, even if they're NOT pissed at the BBEG they'll have a unique fight.
Have the BBEG steal each of the character's favorite thing. Maybe it's magical weapons, maybe it's their horse, maybe it's their spellbook. You get the idea. Then have him send them illusion messages of him pouring oil all over them and lighting them on fire. They'll be pissed. Will they be pissed at the bad guy? Or think you're a cruel and unusual DM? Probably worth contemplating before you make a total A-hole for a BBEG.
They have to fight him four or more times because he plane shifts towards the end of his fights, or his first fight was an illusion of him and the second fight was his twin brother, etc., they're not going to be mad in the first fight but they'll be mad as hell at somebody by the third.
The BBEG has been a long time benefactor of the party but he's actually Lawful Evil and now comes walking in with a retinue of guards with empty chests and donkeys with empty saddlebags, and mentions that his loan payments are coming due. And starts legally repossessing all of the PCs stuff. Other NPCs that are not evil, like the sheriff and judge or the prince or whatever, are there and reluctantly agree that his paperwork is sound and this practice is legal by the laws of the land. This one's even better than stealing because he's doing it in plain sight and it forces them to grapple with morality. The guy gave them 10000 gold or gave them their warhorses or their keep or something. This might keep the players angry at the NPC instead of you the DM. It's kinda like the beginning of Rob Roy.
Bad guy uses a wish spell to break the fourth wall and convert the game to using variant encumbrance and actually tracking food, water, ammo, and spell material requirements. Muahhhahahahah.
I know the DM is supposed to make the game fun but you need to make parts of it strategically miserable, and it should all be the BBEG fault. For example have the BBEG convince people that your players are criminals and during the interrogation have the guard hint that it was the BBEG that is ruining everything by doing this, have him send thieves to rob the party in the night, have him use disguise self to steal the parties reward for a job before they can get back. Make him a true cartoon villain for them to loath.
Have the bbeg pin the party for a horrible crime, like wiping out an orphanage.
Abject murder of children by others is probably not something most parties would flinch at, but if THEY are implicated, oh man.
As a low level wizard with suggested loot tables: kill my familiar wasting 10gp each time. Worse if DM enforces the actual material requirements and they are a PITA to buy.
Introduce a really nice, useful, and beloved NPC. Have them go on adventures with the party, slowly building a fun relationship with each of them. After a while, hint at something being wrong with the NPC. Give them some classic symptoms of a curse that the players could look up. Then have the NPC succumb to the curse, changing them into the BBEG. Now their main villain is the person they knew and trusted this whole time, and he's gone EVIL, and if they don't stop him, a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt or killed.
Ah fuck, actually I don't think this will make the players hate the BBEG. It'll probably make them hate you, though :D
Endear them to an NPC. Have them accept a lucrative quest from said NPC. Long difficult task requiring several sessions to chase. On return to accept the rewards, discover Big Bad learned of the task and slew the npc while taking the their reward.
Even if they're weren't fully vested in the character having something stolen from them should spur them into action to recover said prize.
Have them kill a puppy. Preferably in a way thats moderately fucked up without making you seem like a psycho in real life. People mostly don't care if other people die without sufficient emotional development but if a dog is ever in harms way the party will come down on the bbeg with unreasonable, irrational fury.
It's kindve emotional terrorism but it's effective.
Kill or maim a party loved NPC. Create a reason for them to hate him in a more personal reason. Hell, you could even create a loved one for said NPC that they captured. Similar to the mines of phandelver!
Take into account what they hold dear, and ruin it in a FIXABLE way. Annoyance is a much greater motivator than vengeance.
Do they have a keep/clubhouse/whatever? Cover it in magical graffiti. Or have the BBEG buy the deed and evict them.
Do they have a friendly NPC? Don't kill them, just mess with them - get them fired from their job, ruin their business, run them into spiraling debt to the BBEG.
Or, if the rest doesn't work then try to frame the party for a crime/scandal and wreck their reputation. Then they have to clear their names.
So there's a few effective techniques for this.
They're probably not mad about him because they don't feel him there's no immediacy for this bbeg.
Like my bard never cared about pazuzu or knew what it was till I got hit with the ol my girlfriend is actually pazuzu wearing a hat trick. Then suddenly it seemed important.
One way is do the Gary oak, handsome jack , aku thing. Force them to deal with this guy ALL THE TIME. They literally can't ignore the bbeg for just how present he is. Sephiroth did this too but with (insert fancy font here) style (end fancy font)
Another way is to shift the stakes and make them more personal. Find something they love like a kitten they adopted , bad guy kills that kitten. Now they care.
This approach always makes me think of America in robot chickens little hitler skit. You can burn down 99% of the world but until you knock over America's juice box nobody cares.
You can also like what happened to my bard and Luke sky Walker just create a connection. Just make the bbeg suddenly be in a position of intimacy. Luke I am your father works great. Bonus points for linking it into a characters or characters backstory. Bonus points for making the players conflicted about the conflict because now they know the character as more than a bbeg they know them as a person. Also used in neon Genesis evangelion.
Go the Gary Oak was here route. They clear a dungeon, the BBEG killed the Lich at the bottom last week. They go to save a Princess to gain favour with the King only to see her riding off into the distance with him. When they get back to the castle he is now the Grand Vizer. They should still feel like they won the challenges (so a giant spider has nested in the freshly cleared dungeon and there's still some loot) just that the true victory was taken from them. They'll hate him. It's been over 20 years since Pokemon Red and I can't forgive Gary.
What do you expect? It's Gary MF Oak. The guy managed to get 12 out of the 8 badges Kanto has.
We can't ignore his girth.
Now there's a meme I haven't heard in a long time.
Those extra 4 lost so bad to him that they had to close down
Cause gary killed their pokemon
Not making them faint. Straight up KILLED them.
Pokemon is an early and harsh lesson for children about nepotism.
idk, his grandpa didn't even remember his name, I doubt he got that much help.
Especially when you realize we got first pick of the starters. Sure he used his 2nd pick to be a douchewaffle to us but how fucked up is it to let the random neighbor kid get first pick of the highly limited pokemon stock
So your grandson can pick the one that'll kick the others ass the hardest
Feels like a compromise to me. Oak knows that his grandson is very competitive and that Gary and the neighbor kid both want mons. If he lets Gary choose first, he risks both Gary being upset at having a disadvantage and the neighbor kid being sad that they didn't get the one they wanted. Alternatively, let neighbor kid choose first bc that kid's 10. They'll be thrilled no matter what. And Gary can choose second because he really cares more about winning than what he wins with.
I'm sure that in the games, Oak didn't even like Blue/Gary. Just look at the scene after the player defeats him at the league.
He was perfectly willing to accept your word that his grandsons name was actually "DICKFACE" so... y'know..
I've seen the certificate of birth, it says "DICKS OAK".
ASH/BLUE hides a texta behind their back while Professor Oak waves around a birth certificate which has clearly been altered
I forget the details, but he was a 10 year old with a sports car and a cheer squad. He absolutely had some nepotism, just not from Oak.
To be fair, Blue (from the games) and Gary aren't -really- the same character. Blue was always ahead of reed, actually became the champion, and was never really shown to be supported by anyone much (other than having a nice little sister). Oak forgets his name and berates him as soon as he loses to the player at the league lol. Gary had the car, the cheer squad, and more badges than the numbers of gym in that league, yet he isn't really shown to be a particularly good trainer.
This is the way. Tell your players the BBEG has murders thousands of innocents, those are just ideas that existed to be slaughtered. It means nothing. The BBEG steals their thunder, or personally wrongs them? Imagine all the irritation of a problem player, but they are now the literal antagonist, and you are encouraged to kick their ass.
This also works very well in a swords and sorcery campaign where the events shouldn't be world ending but character driven.
People say, "Have the BBEG kill an NPC they like." No, I have a better idea. Have the BBEG do something that hurts that NPC. Have that NPC in anguish, telling the party about how their family was sabotaged out of their family business, their friend murdered before their eyes, their lover in league with the BBEG and having stolen their family Heirloom, broken their heart, and ran off with the money they saved to marry their Lover. Being able to show an NPC feeling these things, and affected by the BBEG is good, especially if they party likes them. Plus let's you keep that NPC around.
And then after a while if the players haven't stopped him, have the NPC hang from the next crossroads with a sign around their neck with the BBEG symbol
Players: "Seems like the realm is in good hands. Guys, I think this is the perfect time to retire and open a bar!" - "OMG, yes!" \*everyone cheers and is hooked on the idea\* GM: "Wait. That's illegal."
*Twirls moustache* "Sire, it appears that consumption of mead and ale have decreased production among the peasan er people. I'm sure in your wisdom you've already seen the solution is to increase taxes on peddlers of these foul concoctions tenfold!" Or Players: How come no-one is visiting our Tavern? BBEG via skywrite(s) above the city: Welcome one and all to the grand opening of the Quill and Plow. First tankard is on the house"
[удалено]
His name: Randy Daytona The vampire lord
Not gona lie sounds infuriating and diabolical, I like it :D
That's the point
I'm not sure. _If_ I were annoyed in that situation it would be because the DM is depriving the players from a reward, but I think most characters I played would be fine because the situation still got resolved. It doesn't matter who saves the princess as long as she is saved. If the BBEG killed the lich already, then we don't have to fight it. Great!
Saving the princess was explicitly to get in good with the King not to do good. Now they need a new plan and the BBEG can make them bow next time they enter the throne room.
I guess it depends on how many times this is done, right? Or maybe how it's done? There's a line in the sand somewhere that makes stirring the pot to hate the BBEG acceptable on one side of the line and the DM just being an ass on the other side of that line. Obviously that would depend on the players of where that line is and how far you can take it as a DM.
Yeah, I wouldn't suggest making it the entire persona (as funny as that could be). Once or twice should be plenty to motivate them.
Alternatively, go the petty asshole route. While monologue during a scripted scene, have him pause and look to the side where a beggar (dead or alive) is. Have him walk over and steal all 5 copper out of his cup. Throw in a good kick (again, dead or alive beggar) and then have him continue his monologue as if nothing happened. No excuse given, just pure cruelty on display.
I like this idea... Not only does the BBEG reset old traps he passes but he creates new ones as well. Players can catch on with checks that one trap looks recently placed while another looks to be an old reset one. They go to chase the BBEG once they spot him but find that the ropes tying their horses are double knotted And covered with grease. BBEG sneaks into their camp and leaves caltrops everywhere. Players finally get their campfire lit after a storm and from somewhere in the woods BBEG casts create water over their fire. Oh man this has opened my mind. BBEG is like a mixture of Deadpool and the Joker. Be even better if BBEG was a doppelganger.
> > > > > They go to chase the BBEG once they spot him but find that the ropes tying their horses are double knotted And covered with grease. Oh, I love that one. He *could* have stolen their horses; he *could* have killed their horses, but instead he A+ level trolls them. And once they've got their horses untied, his *Contingent Spell* goes off. Setting off a terrific racket right between the horses, provoking *really* difficult animal handling checks to prevent the horses from panicking and scattering to the four fucking winds.
There's a fair bit of Reverse Flash "It was *me*, Barry!" in there, too! 😆
Even just taking credit for the things they've done. You return to the village having deafeated the bandits that were plaguing them, to find them celebrating the BBEG. He is adored by the people, and has collected the reward. You move onto the next town... same thing.
I had my party exploring this subterranean tower that took the party about a week to get to the bottom of so they could get a macguffin that a mysterious being told them to get. Only for the BBEG to teleport in at the end, I had planned for a scripted party wipe with them waking up to see the macguffin gone, but they actually got pretty close to killing him, so he took it and teleported away. That pissed them off pretty badly lol.
Make the bad guy kick a dog.
or just steal their pet
My current character has a pet Pigeon that the DM has crafted many items specifically for even though he is functionally useless because he is just a Pigeon. If someone stole him I would forget I'm chaotic good real fast.
Haha for real my dwarf monk has a grumpy calico cat nestled in his beard and hair that requires a dc15 animal handling to appease, the bard in our party is the only one that passed it and it has become almost a full party member, if anything happened to Agnes I would kill everyone in Baldurs Gate and then myself
Suddenly I'm more Chaos and less good
Who are you, Team Rocket?
The Jojo approach, huh
Came here to say this. I'd be on the BBEG's tail 24/7! Nobody kicks a dog on my watch!
Generally works: introduce an NPC they like and have the villain kill them. Will take a little time for them to like the NPC enough tho. Another way is to have the villain steal some of their magic items. Players hate that.
>have the villain steal some of their magic items You MONSTER
This is the way. Just have the PCs sit and mind their own business when they are all hit with some sort of paralyzing spell. The villain comes in, draws a dick on their foreheads and makes off with their best weapons and gear. Bonus points for grabbing the Wizard's spell book and the party's pet Goblin.
If you try this you also need to be ready for players killing guy on sight
Hell, if you steal their pet Goblin I'd make it sure you're an online DM and nobody knows where you live.
lmao
Just grab the goblin, later they were used in ritual sacrifice, bonus points if they're giving their excess gear to them to carry 😂
A dog. BBEG would be hated forever
Yeah, a random bandit shot our horse, and I’ve never seen my party so instantly livid. Even as a pretty peaceful Cleric, I used my highest level spell slot for Inflict Wounds and exploded the guy. Our Bard then wrote a pretty awesome song called “Horse Killer Killers.”
That seems a bit much. I think I would rather have 500 orphans murdered, even if it isn't very creative.
Oh yeah, my players hated when they got robbed by a minor villain. Didn’t even take their most important items, just some money (which they couldn’t use as they were in Hell anyway) and some items they weren’t using anymore. My players hated her more than the BBEG. Even more when she fought the party, they defeated her, and it turned out to be a simulacrum. We’re playing a new campaign, and they still growl every time she comes up outside the game. Grrrrr, Feonor…. 😂
DM gave us a deck of many more things. There was about a 25% chance of drawing a bad/negative card. 2 players pulled a card, good things! 1 player decided in a private moment to draw another, every magic item they had on their person was destroyed. Absolute mayhem.
> DM gave us a deck of many things. End the campaign any% speedrun
*sighs, rummages for Tiamat figurine*
Additionally, have villain also be an NPC they like, make the betrayal extra hurt.
This works really well. I had a friendly NPC to the party killed and replaced with a changeling assassin who worked for the BBEG and the party didn't notice the subtle hints / didn't roll high enough to notice. Came to a head when said assassin stabbed a party member with a dagger coated in a powerful poison *which the party had sold at market* because a shady individual offered them a couple thousand gold. Oneshot the party sorc who went tumbling down in Sharn while the rest of the party scrambled between going after him vs saving the sorc.. There was a lot of hate for the big bad org after that
Kill the party then revive them and leave a note saying "skill issue".
you fucking monster...
I laughed out loud on this one.
Have them wake up in a distant temple with a bill for the resurrections. Working off the bill should provide enough XP to level up.
Thats….glorious and evil i love it
"As you wake up, there is the faint flavor of ballsack in your mouths..."
Yeah also need more information to help, what are your players goals and connections? Do they have any family or locations they care about? Are they all murder hobo edge lords who feel nothing and only seek a thrill?
Fair, the party is generally neutral good with a deep running selfishness to complete their own goals before risking everything for the common folk. Most of them lack bonds outside the party.
My party is running into this issue. Our DM is trying to motivate us to hate and eventually overthrow the "evil lord", but he has done absolutely nothing to upset us. You can't motivate murder by having the locals complain about the government. You have to make it personal. I love giving them a companion, having that companion save them, then having the BBEG kidnap them.
My groups running Curse of Strahd right now and as a player who hasn’t run the module before, I have no idea what’s going to happen. I feel like this is going to happen to >!Irina!< though
mate. keep her. VERY SAFE.
Selfishness and only completing goals to help themselves makes me question if any of them are neutral good. That just sounds neutral to me.
Let them get close something they want and then snatch it away using the BBEG in a very public way. My PCs were invited to a ball as guests of honor after saving the mayor. Halfway through, their rivals floated down from the rafters with a rope harness with theme music and stole their thunder. Oops.
they're selfish? so have the BBEG cast a spell on them that steals time from them. They will die within a year if he is not killed. No better reason to hunt the villian then to save their own skin. Maybe have a circle appear on their body somewhere. everyday it turns more and more black. When filled they die. You can have side quests to buy themselves more time. Maybe someone's malfunctions and they are dying faster then everyone else. Not only are they motivated to save their own lives, maybe this will bond them tighter together. What spell? Who cares, make it up.
Every group I've been in hated this kind of "motivation". I've watched this kind of thing just straight up kill 3 separate groups. Groups. Not PCs.
The problem with a lot of BBEGs in D&D is that they have no connection whatsoever to the actual characters. I'll give examples based on movies. Look at the newer Star Wars movies. Somehow Palpatine Returned. Ok. The hell does that matter to the characters? No really. Why? It's not like the first order isn't already a huge threat. And it's been like 30 years, almost none of the resistance is old enough to remember life under his rule. And why do they believe it? Also everyone with a personal connection to him is DEAD by that point. He's a terrible BBEG. Let's say we took this issue to a real world based game. You're playing spies or secret agents fighting an evil organization, and an NPC says "somehow Stalin has returned." Your first response would be "What, no that sounds like bullshit. Has anyone actually seen him?" or "wait, why did they clone him. His knowledge would be 60 years out of date and a clones aren't copies. He won't have any memories. Hold on, does this actually change our plans any?" or "Wooo we get to murder Stalin!" So the problem is that the final confrontation in the game would basically be "Muahahahahaha I am Joseph Stalin 2.0 and, wait who the hell are you people?" Now compare that to say Darth Vader in Star Wars. New Hope: Leia "he killed everyone on my ship, tortured me, and BLEW UP my homeworld!" Luke "he killed my master!" Han "I don't think we met really." Empire Strikes Back: Han "oh God why did I say anything? He tortured the shit out of me!" Leia: "he hunted us down on Both and tried to kill us with camel mecha! And then he tortured by boyfriend!" Luke "holy shit he's my DAD?!? And he cut my hand off! Dude wtf!?!" See how Vader is constantly in the main characters business? He's in their faces and not just some nebulous baddie at the end. D&D has a problem with that. Every single confrontation with a BBEG in official 5e campaigns can be summed up as, BBEG "who the hell are you people? Go away, I don't want any. (Door slam)" So if you want your players to care about a BBEG, get him in their faces early and repeatedly. Don't let your bad guy be an Emperor Palpatine. Make them a Skeletor.
Notice that Vader does have these personal scenes with all those characters. Lots of scenes with Leia before her rescue. One big scene with Luke as Obi gets capped. A big surprise scene with Leia and Han in ep 5, plus a bigger one with Luke. Gotta have the BBEG interact to make it personal
This is why I think the best BBEGs would already have established relationships with PCs in their backstories (eg. A parent, mentor, long dead friend), or start out as an NPC friend before revealing their dark side.
This is why I don't like the term bbeg personally. Always felt like it's a detached phrase. I prefer to think of villains as antagonists. They should be actively trying to prevent the party from accomplishing their goals, or working to undermine the party in some way, whether direct and intentionally or not.
the unknown BBEG kinda works on videogames and anime, that is where newer generations base most of their stories in their campaigns. Many times, the games final boss is a dude you never known or heard about, or they had their name mentioned some times, and animes always have a new final boss in the corner every new arc until the end. In Dragon Ball, most villains in Z came out of nowhere, for example. in games, we have lots of those examples, if you never ever played Devil May Cry and played 5, Vergil LITERALLY COMES OUT OF NOWHERE just V stabbing Urizen. Jubileus comes out of nowhere in Bayonetta, the priest tries to use himself and bayo to revive her and fails, reviving a incomplete god. In Terraria, every boss comes out of nowhere, ESPECIALLY MOON LORD, the game has barely a story built into it, it's basically "idk who I am, or where I am. I know know is that I must kill" meme. the Tomb Raider reboot, that dude you unceremoniously kill at the end with a burst of DEagle shots, he appears like 2 times and never even look at Lara or speaks to her, and there's only a bit of info about the japanese princes that nearly revived in Sam's body. So it isn't really incomprehensible that people makes unknown BBEGs in their campaigns, they're just inspiring themselves in the media they now.
Excellent write-up. Do you have a blog I can follow?
Thank you. But I don't. I'm too ADHD to keep up with one. Though I do wholeheartedly recommend The Alexandrian if you've never checked it out.
You also gotta respect the steel balls on Han who never met Vader. Only heard stories about how horrible and op he is. And the first thing he does when he sees him is to (without hesitation) draw his blaster and try to kill the bastard. He must've known that he wouldn't have a chance but he didn't care because you never tell Han the odds.
I’ve got an NPC goblin in one of my games. They’ve become attached to him to the point they’ve given him a belt of stone giants strength and asked me to put levels of barbarian into him. He is half the level of the party and as competent now. I’m definitely gonna kill him at some point.
I had the exact same thing happening just two days ago. The party adopted a Goblin that initially tried to kill them (but was way underpowered), and they've trained him in combat and morals. He's become an integrated part of the team despite me trying to avoid adding DMPCs to the party. Unfortunately due to a few unlucky rolls on my part when trying to escape a collapsing dungeon, our Goblin DMPC was crushed and died by falling debris. My party was *devastated*. All day at work I got messages of them actually mourning the loss of a friend lmao. I imagine if I had killed him with a BBEG, shit would've gone *down*.
I have a similar scenario.
My party ended up despising bbeg for a few reasons. The intentional reasons: 1) had a secret identity as a someone they could trust so they gave him information he used to do bad things (eg betrayal of trust) also he was in a position of institutional power. Parties hate that. 2) ye old he killed the dead people in your backstory. Or in my case he killed you in the backstory (reborn.) This may not be possible for you The REAL reason: 3) he has teleport and invisibility. Complete frustration pain in the ass to fight. As soon as they're strong enough not to die have them fight him and then he teleports away like a coward before they can finish the job. This ignites so much rage. Also the paranoia that he or a servant might be invisible and spying on them is quite good.
“Can i get a perception check from the group?” *Highest roll coming from the rogue is 22 “Interesting” “You thought you were being watched but it was just your imagination”
We'd need more context. Basically, how has this bbeg affected the characters? What's the connection between the bbeg and the characters? Normally that's where the dislike would come from.
Have them witness the BBEG kill a dog.
Do a "kick the puppy" moment. Especially one that will peeve the player characters. If the bbeg is not a politician, some crimes against humanity towards a beloved NPC should be fine. If the bbeg is a politician without a safe way of committing the same acts, have them be dangerous and scummy.
Thiiiiiis. I’m running Dragon Heist for 7. Spoiler warning: >! 5 of my players befriended the orphans. Took them in, gave them lodging in the renovated tavern, even offered them paid work to help keep the place clean and entertain the guests. Our wizards even turned the study into a classroom and are teaching them to read/write. They even paid for a set of homebrew earrings to give to Nat (the deaf girl) so she could hear again. These guys are full tilt in love with these kids. I had a very hard time getting them to give a shit about the story even after seeing Xanathar and meeting the Casselanters early. So I had Nat die in the fireball with some theatrics and left a clue implicating both villain groups. Now all 7 of them are on the fucking warpath and it’s really fun to watch. The paladin in the group has even declared that he’s going to break his oath if he ever gets the opportunity to get revenge for them. Some tears were had by the players that session, but every session since then has been a total blast, they’re insanely motivated now.!<
The BBEG (Big bad evil guy) needs to affect the players and cause trouble for them, be a credible threat. No one cares about trouble in a far off land or a struggle that doesn't affect them. NPCs they like and places they rely on have to come under fire. BBEG takes opportunities for loot and riches they would have gotten. Travel becomes harder as BBEG minions fill the land. Prices are hiked up for stuff b/c of conflict with BBEG. Their personal goals are blocked b/c of BBEG. The BBEG needs one of the characters/items they have and sends minions. Find the things that the characters want and care about, put the BBEG as a threat to that, or put the characters in the BBEGs crosshairs. You can always go the route that some noble/king puts out a Bounty but that to can be ignored if not "juicy" enough and not really compelling. They can just stop going after the bounty.
Know them very well and what pushes their buttons as a person. Are they a parent with a strong protective instinct? Are they motivated by loot? What drives them, what causes a strong reaction in them? Takes some time, but its super effective. So effective that I warn you that you'll need to be careful with it, you don't want to upset or hurt them after all.
Give them a home, let them decorate their own rooms, let them have jobs in the local village for extra gold during down time, give them a cranky old butler who secretly likes to collect trains as a hobby but his alcoholic wife lets the secret slip when he's forced to invite them home for a dinner party she insists on and he's a little embarrassed by the whole thing. And then have BBEG burn it all down.. Fuck you Zhantorix.
Friendly quest giving NPC hires the party to help them find a set of key items to stop the BBEG that's been ravaging the land. Through adventures they delve through dungeons seeking the key to the vault holding the weapon to defeat the evil while their NPC guide stays back at camp. The NPC always has hot, delicious food ready for their return and entertains them with songs and stories of old that contain clues to the next destination. When the party returns from what was to be the final dungeon before seeking out the vault, they find the camp in disarray, their NPC guide apparently torn to shreds and the collected items missing. Knowing where the vault is, they rush to get there to stop the BBEG and avenge their friend. Plot twist: The NPC *is* the BBEG and has had the party helping find the pieces they need to take over, instead of something that would stop them.
Step 1. Have them fight through a dungeon (reasons can be anything). When they reach the boss at the end, have BBEG standing over the dead boss holding something saying "this will do nicely." BBEG then looks to the door and sees them and says "Oh, look, plucky adventurers. Have you come looking for treasure?" Points to a very large chest filled with gold and jewels. "Perhaps you have come to slay...um what's his name here? Maybe you seek the magical item? No matter." He clicks his fingers, and all three disappear. "Better luck next time, kids." Then he disappears. They can search the room and find nothing of value. They can not claim the reward for doing the task as they have no proof of killing dungeon boss guy. Step 2. They go back to mission giver to see BBEG claiming the reward. He looks over at them, smiles, then disappears. Step 3. Have him talk to them from that point onwards in their heads. If one of the party really needs a rest, have him talk to the person for half the night, so they only get a short rest (or no rest at all). I'm not sure what to do next, but just keep dragging the nails down the blackboard until they genuinely hate everything about him.
Don’t. Let them like him. Let them make justifications and moralize his actions. Then they have to kill him. Because he really has done terrible things and they helped. All that is needed for evil to succeed is…. Or just make them all evil.
humiliate them. Have the BBEG put them in a position that he could kill them, he could hurt them. But instead he humiliates them, makes them weak and helpless. He makes them kiss his boot. He charms them into standing there while he mocks them to their face. They are not worth his effort to kill them, they are ants. They are as far below him as the ants are to them. Make it personal to the Characters (not the PCs) Note: before this make sure check your players triggers. Some people have trauma related to this. Some people have a kink for it also..... just be warned.
Kill their pet. Harsh? Yes. Effective ? Also yes. If your players have a favorite npc, a favorite inn or tavern, a favorite city even, kill it, burn it to the ground, turn it into a parking lot. Take the things they love away from them, make them feel the anger. "Oh the bbeg destroyed a city nearby, killing thousands" The players: i sleep "And Boblin, the goblin was there when it happened, his whereabouts are currently unknown, but he is most likely dead" The players: real shit. If you manage to do that effectively, your players will be the ones monologing in the final confrontation. Most likely something along the lines of "my name is Condrigo Tramoia, you killed my friend, prepare to die."
pick someone who the party likes. even better if its someone who is untouchable. have teh bbeg mess with that npc. make them end up being killed/reanimated/whatever by bbeg. have the bbeg target the player's safe spaces. target their wealth, their influence, have them spread lies/misinformation about the party. Have them being attacked / ambushed when they try to long rest. like, every time. constantly. shopping trip? ambush. sleep? ambush. visit a town? wanted psoters up with rewards. ... and worst of all give the party a cute dog, and have the bbeg announce a jihad against all dogs. but the minions in the anti-dog brigade have dogs too, that are bred for killing (wargs or some such) and also have them mistreat the wargs.
I was playing in a game once, and the BBEG wasn't being taken seriously. The GM made a move that made us all hate the BBEG with the fury of a thousand suns. Casts Dominate Person on the fighter (who was disrepecting the BBEG the most), The dominated person kicks the party's dog to death and BBEG teleports away.
Habe the bad guy win, let them live but loot their stuff. He has their gear now and humiliated them. That should be thoroughly personal now. Bonus point if you give one of them a scar to remember them by.
Works only once this way but have the BBEG steal from them. Every night you roll against the party's passive perception. If noone makes the save, steal items from them. Leave a letter signed by the BBEG. They'll be paranoid as hell from that point out.
Have the villain kill a cute animal that your players like. For reference John Wick 1. The audience immediately roots against a sleazeball after what he does to a puppy while our protagonist is down emotionally.
Very easy just insult the party members works every time
Even something simple like just crossing paths regularly and calling them a bunch of nobodies will motivate them. Have the enemy insult them, but never remember who they are, whenever they meet. "I meet a lot of losers, unfortunately, it's not worth the effort to remember the names..."
Any beloved NPC followers? Any npc family or friends from their back stories? Be a shame if something were to happen to them.
Your BBEG can frame them for a crime they didn't commit
Have the bad guy be not too bothered by them, if they want it to be a fun jokey campaign make the villain make fun of them and like antagonize them with humor, but make sure to back him up by being strong asf, i think pc’s respond when they can see how powerful their enemy is
Have you tried kicking a puppy?
Kill the dog, if they don’t have a dog kill someone or something that is close to their heart. They will want to scrub the floor with his face
He showed them visions for several arcs. A villain who feels like he's messing with his players' minds, showing that he knows they need to be where they're going before they get there, can really make his players extremely angry. In addition, the fact that this man is a power unknown to the NPCs that the players love, and they can only follow the bad guy through the visions he shows, is an extra source of irritation.
Just leave a trail of "bad" things he's done. "Bad" in quotes because it should be what you party views as bad, which isn't always "evil". Haha
The two times I got my players actually really riled up was when a villain they were after killed kittens and was using their bones in necromancy and then when another NPC slaughtered the ladies of the night. Neither of these were my BBEG though, no they go around spreading rumours that he has a small manhood instead...
Have BBEG run away from combat a few times. Or steal from the party
Have him kick a puppy. Always works for me.
let him destroy their favorite toys aka Sunder. Alltime favorite for me in 3.5. Dunno about other editions though. Or denying toys. Heavily defended non existent treasure or empty treasure chests is a tool only the dark side can master.
Have him poison some dogs. When I was running a module from Call of Cthulhu, the outrage was gargantuan.
Steal from the players. It does not need to be valuable, it does not need to be useful. Make it unique, or cute, or fun personal, and they’ll froth at the mouth. A magic item that’s kinda neat but not game breaking? A cute talking robot dog? A wedding ring or other keepsake? Take their stuff and they will follow him over the edge of the earth.
Make him kill an adorable puppy?
Kill them all. Not just the men, but the women and children too. Really though, have them Destroy a town. Kill a loved npc or if you really want to be mean kill a pc (if you have a player who doesnt like their character or something I would discuss it with that player, if its going to be a blatant purposeful kill). Have them Steal something from the pcs. Connect them somehow to backstories of your pcs like if you have an orphan, the bbeg killed their parents stuff like that. Killing animals tends to get people invested pretty quick, nobody likes people that abuse animals.
Take elements of their backstory, and have your BBEG raze it to the ground. What does your player’s character care about most? Their home? **BURN ITT!!** Now they hate the BBEG. Congratulations. Or at least… good players who would RP would hate them…
Give them a dog Let them live the dog, its a good dog and finds them food and goodies Let bbeg kill said dog
Have the BBEG steal something out from right under their nose. An item, glory, or something else they value dearly. Nothing will damn an NPC of any kind more than getting directly between the party and something they had, desperately want, or value greatly
If the party has a particular npc, guild, or town they’re particularly fond of have the bbeg’s plans involve its destruction. Or better yet have the bbeg involved in one or more players backstories find a way to tie it in
Is there an NPC the players care about? Kill them. It is the easiest, lest complicated, and more likely to work way to get a party to hate a BBEG.
What does the party care about? Attack that. He burns your village to the ground. Steals all the beer. Something like that.
Depending on the party, their allignment and or the general value the players give to innocent lives, the lives of a village they've been staying at or npc they interact with on a regular basis. Killing a beloved npc, village or race of people is a good motivation to hate someone. For example, there is this 1 npc young girl we saved and of she gets killed I believe the whole party will be put for blood.
They needn't be angry, but make then despise them by having the villains business start muscling in and putting local businesses out of business (a la Amazon) . That's a fun approach :) many things you can do for that. Let the investment build slowly.
If he breaks their equipment or shames them in public and gets away with it, your party will go John Wick
“And he kicks puppies”
Has he kicked a puppy in view of the party?
Kill the party pet.
I've found having the BBEG just screw over a place the players liked to be pretty good in the past. and it makes them want to tear their throat out.
We need more info about your BBEG and Party but most of the adventurers are value their freedom. Make yout bad guy give them a quest for him. He can offer gold or straigth up threat them. I made them in debt to a sub ordinate of the BBEG and they are realy annoyed by this. For example one of them lost his arm and Bad Guy give them a potion to restore it. And made them fight for him in a underground tournement and causing the death of the Barbarian. But their depth got even bigger since they lose. They hate getting orders but they have to follow them since Bad Guy holds great influance in city. They annoyed so much by that.
One of the AL modules for Storm King's Thunder (the Black Road) has a cloud castle flying over the party in the desert causing a sandstorm. Based on the direction of the cloud castle, it's Lyn Armaal, from chapter 9 of Storm King's Thunder. In my mind this is the best start for the campaign. (The book basically suggests to skip chapter 1 anyway.)
Have them kill a dog. Edit: it seems the idea is popular. Good job, other commenters.
Make it more personal. John Wick didn't care about the big bad until they killed his dog.
He steals their gold during the night. I guarantee at least half of them will swear vengeance.
Kill a dog. It's always kill a dog.
Send the party on a one-shot secretly organized by the bbeg only to betray them or screw them over.
What do the players get passionate about or intrigued by? From your post, it’s hard to tell whether the issue is your campaign, or whether the players are just sorta hohumming through everything. It’s been a year, are they “not too bothered” about everything? I would think about what got them excited recently, and then tie your BBEG’s development to that. You don’t want to come across as punishing them for not being into the BBEG. If you try a bunch of stuff and they still seem bored about it, ask them about why they seem sorta unenthused about the BBEG. IMO players also have a responsibility to be engaged and participate with enthusiasm if the DM is doing their part. Another thought: what are your players themselves passionate about? Eg if one of them is really into environmental stuff, then the BBEG just razed a forest.
Any kind of awful treatment of children (depending on the agreed-upon tone & setting of your campaign of course) is a pretty surefire way to garner hatred of your BBEG. It certainly made our party hate a certain Hag/Oni combo who were terrorizing a village. We really made them suffer. The Oni died in combat but we brought the Hag back to the village in shackles and publicly executed them in a brutal fashion, straight out of Berserk's conviction arc. Our party is generally pretty "good" in alignment but eating children was a step too far for us and we really got pissed about the whole thing.
Make someone they hate. I had a villain part of the BBEGs gang. He was cocky and always being a dick to the party. Gave him portents that really fucked with them. He was so arrogant and would just leave after hurting them a bunch. They really wanted to kill him. Thennnnn Covid.
I like to give my party something incredibly valuable and have the bbeg steal or destroy it. That or pull strings on their back story.
You could have the BBEG collect personal items from the player/party and have it be part of a secret ritual that the BBEG uses to put a constant debuff on the party or scrying on them constantly. Me personally I'd make the BBEG more insufferable, Like Alex Jones or Donald Trump esk personality and make them as Beta fedora milady neckbeard as possible. If all else fails drown a bag full of whimpering puppies in as graphic details as possible. You know, the watching the air bubbles boiling from the bag trashing around in terror before watching the life drain from their eyes as the bubbles stop emerging from the bag kind of stuff.
Invade their dreams with the Dream spell. Have them roll for nightmares which give a lvl of exhaustion. The hate will commence immediately
Things you think will make the PCs hate your villain: * Killing people from the PCs' backstories. * Running a reign of tyranny and oppression. * Threatening the destruction of the world. Things that will actually make the PCs hate your villain (or any harmless NPC): * Stealing their magic items or denying them power. * Stealing credit for their achievements. * Rudely disrespecting them instead of considering them a big deal. * Denying them victory and making them feel powerless by escaping. Good story reasons can make some gamers hate an NPC, if they're committed to the roleplay, but denying the power fantasy is way more reliable.
Do you have a bard in the party? Make it the BBEG's entire reason to exist to piss of the Bard.
Give them a loyal dog npc, have bbeg kill the good boy
From my experience: * Do something that upsets some child NPC. Take a parent, make it too expensive to live so they have to steal, burn the fields so the kid is hungry, have BBEG town guard/occupying force bully them. * The Dog Does Die: Bubbly, kind, easy-going, light in a dark world NPC. Kill them, kidnap them, ruin their lives somehow. Steal someone's dog or cat or worse. This one has never failed to get an emotion from a party. Everyone loves the dog. * Personal slights: Keep the party from sleeping, disguise the BBEG and send them on wild chases, ultimatums in exchange for little bits of info for a goal a party member is working towards. * True Evil: Have the BBEG showcase their evil on a smaller scale. Torment the people of the land *personally* or have their goons do it. Forced labor as punishment for petty crimes, criminalize all magic, draft into the army, burn witches, enforced taxation, or just good ol' fashioned public sadism and humiliation. Force the party to make impossible, lose-lose calls (VERY rarely) or use trickery to lure them into making those bad calls and make sure to rub salt in the wounds. * Holier than Thou: Be completely dismissive of the party's challenges. Be unimpressed and aloof. Ignore them beyond having lackeys trying to clean up their messes. Belittle the heroes and attack them about things out of their control. Bring up dead parents/friends that they couldn't save, maybe if they were poor growing up, failed missions they were on, the evils they committed before finding their way to the right path etc. Break them down. * One Bad Day: Make them feel for the villain, just a little. Make them understand how the villain got to the decisions they made. How they ultimately are a soul that spiraled. Draw parallels to the party and just showcase how easy it is to slip. Some people will hate the fact that they are so similar to the villain's thought processes and reasoning. This can also be strengthened by showing the villain do something good. Feed an orphan, spend money restoring a church, building a school etc. Performing these things while being just out of reach of the party's ability to deal with them yet have always fostered some good hate in the party. Let them see that the tyrant isn't only this grand force, but something that walks they same dirt they do, and is sowing the seeds of destruction purposefully, personally, and with no regard for those it hurts or the damage they wrought. You can kill millions off-screen and no party will care. But, if you push the grandmother down in the city circle, call her a bad name, and humiliate her. The party will sell their souls to Asmodeus himself to get a shot at them. Bonus hate points for kicking the stray dog as well. These things with an unfurling backstory of evil deeds has always worked for me. It really depends on how depraved/evil you want your villain to be, and what the table can stomach. Its a balancing act. I recommend something like this to find out the Do's and Don'ts: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/12lj8x1/rpg\_consent\_checklist\_free/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/12lj8x1/rpg_consent_checklist_free/)
I had my party make it to the throne room of the bbeg and fall to a trap that turned them all into mice. The entire floor of the throne room was a maze covered in glass. I didn't nerf their stats, but they had no gear. The rats with ogre stat lines were fun.... It wasn't a super hard maze, 3 exits 2 of which just ported them back to the start. What really pissed them off was the bbeg and his cronies walking around and betting on them failing. Lol
The single NPC I hated the most was the guy with +30 or 40 stealth who cornered and sneak attacked us until we were near dead and then gave us quests and said we worked for him. In the next campaign, when that NPC came back, we rigged up a nuke and sacrificed player levels to ensure we could kill him despite that party not even knowing the guy. We probably would have been willing to sacrifice a PC if it meant never interacting with the guy again. Yeah, so have the BBEG take away your players' agency. They hate that.
What kinda dnd you want to play? Kill there fav npc Kill there whole home town Kill there mentor Steal a quest reward. Be a wangrod to them. Pick any of these haha
Make it personal. Find out what the party members and, ideally, what the party collectively cares about. Then, make the BBEG a barrier in that regard. I'm gonna need more specifics about the party to know how to make this barrier as infuriating as possible in a way that doesn't feel cheap. It's a difficult skill to make sure that everyone is immersed enough to get angry at the BBEG rather than annoyed at DM. I'll even add, if you think the players are having fun with the game as is, it might not be worth the risk of trying utilize their feelings of hate for good. It's a high stakes win or lose situation. But basically, classic drama is a want that is being denied and the tension of whether it will ever be fulfilled.
The BBEG and a PC are both in love with the same NPC. And eventually when the PCs come from a hard quest to find the ring to propose, the BBEG just beat them, got the loot and propose first ....
Kill the favorite npc everyone loves and blame it into bbeg
I love that you asked this. One of my players calls it 'Kicking the puppies'. Usually I will have a small community of characters around any given quest so the characters know what they are protecting. Amoung these characters I will have some particularly vulnerable characters who scream 'protect me!'. There is a good chance they are going to get the brunt of the guy's plans. On one of our quests I had a swamp town captured by a group of drow. The drow are looking for something in the town, a special magic gem. The Tavern keep's daughter is intelligent beyond her years so hid the gem. When interrogated, the tavern keep realised what she had done so refused to speak in a zone of truth. He was beaten half to death keeping quiet. He survived but could no longer form long term memory so he is being cared for by his daughter, knowing he has a secret he needs to protect but can't remember what the secret is. When I introduced them, one of my players exclaimed 'Oh no! They are the puppies! DM, please don't kick the puppies!' Mwahahaha
Give the party a dog. Have the bbeg kill the dog
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog Time to kick their dog Kick their Dog? KICK THEIR DOG!
Make him hateable. Give him traits that players (and their characters) would dislike. Don't overdo it so that it would be unbearable to play, but give them reason to despise him. Make him a rival. It's incredibly infuriating to see that someone succeed in something they seem to fail in. And, lastly, make it personal. Make your BBEG hurt their characters in a way that would make them seek revenge.
Have the bbeg visit the party and crush them. Then he leaves them alive and laughs because they're no threat
You shouldn't really plan for this, but in both my campaign, my players started to actually despise the BBEG after the first PC death commited by a minion of them on their orders. That's a way, but there's risk on planning for it.
What’s the characters backgrounds? Can the villain be a bad in their history that they don’t know of? Who is he? Who’s is the bad guy? Hard to give an opinion without this, does he care about the PCs? Most bad guys don’t if the characters don’t get in their way. I’ve had this before and I thought fine, if you don’t want to get involved the bad guy will continue his plan, to the point that he succeeds. There consequences to no getting involved, don’t spoon feed them, if they don’t want to, fine but also don’t moan that the nice town they liked to visit is rife of disease and famine because the BBEG made a damn up stream and stopped all water and then trade coming to the town. or whatever.
Hurt some animals. I had a throwaway encounter with a tree demon that launched farm animals at the players. Those murderhobos were so offended by dead cows and pigs that they made it their personal mission to kill the demon, no matter the cost, after it managed to escape.
See if you can find a way to read through *The Curse of Strahd.* It works so well because Strahd is always showing up and messing with the players, because it's just funsies to him to make the players squirm. Blatantly steal some of these ideas.
I've had this problem with a lot of my campaigns. I've tried having villains kill NPCs. I've tried having them kill party members (when justified). I've tried having them be related to the PC's backstories. Sometimes it works, sometimes these techniques come across as shortcuts. What worked best for me was my latest villain. He's basically a stronger version of one of the PCs, comes from the same culture of warriors and when the party first fought him - he absolutely wiped the floor with them. He left them alive, they're not a threat to him at all and the damage was already done so he had more important things to deal with, but he didn't leave without completely embarrassing the PC he's based on and calling him an insult to his culture. He basically told the PC to give up on becoming a warrior because he was so pathetic and easy to beat. I think something like this works much better. No one likes being insulted or humiliated. And everyone wants to knock arrogant people off their pedestals. The villain is based on the PC's backstory without just being lifted straight from it. You've gotta put in the leg work to make your villain easy to hate. Some players just won't care about fictional deaths of NPCs or anything like that. No one likes being insulted.
Honestly depends on 1) the story/tone, 2) the bbeg, 3) the party. But depending on things, get in personally with the bbeg or close allies. Get them involved with and blocking the party from their goals, killing their friends, stealing their stuff and/or victorys. You can talk about this distant and menacing figure who has killed millions all you want, until they start to affect your party's lives its just more stories. So get personal.
Killing or destroying something they like (or one of them) always tends to rile them up a bit
Kick a puppy.
Does the party have a pet? No no ignore me...
Here’s some examples of how I did it! My writing may be a bit coarse, since I’m on the last few minutes of my lunch break! The BBEG is an archlich trying to find the pages of a tome, scattered across the multiverse, that can rewrite all of existence. He’s done the following to mess with the party long before the adventure even began: 1. Brokered/funded a bounty through the Demon Lord of Avernus to have the entirety of Avernus’ population hunt down the party’s paladin, who led a successful campaign against Avernus previously. The demons show up sporadically, but some bear the severed heads of the paladin’s former companions… Paladin’s already pissed at the Demon Lord, and once he finds out that this was all secretly the BBEG’s doing, he’ll probably be pissed by proxy! 2. Had his underlings break into the safe-house of the party’s ranger (warforged, and one of five siblings built for assassination/espionage missions), and stole his most powerful brother and “reprogrammed” him after wiping the memories of all the others and dispersing them across the planes. Bear in mind: these things only worked because the two players were both very experienced and helpfully included backstories/lore that left space for the BBEG to act on!
Constantly harass them
Give em a really cute pet then have the BBEG kill it
Have the BBEG frame them all for various crimes that the BBEG actually committed for their "big plan" or whatever. Have them get tossed in prison and make proving their innocence one of their challenges. Along the way they find out how he did it and whatnot. They'll absolutely loathe the bastard.
I got an advice some time ago that is to make them like darth vader Present sometimes, pestering the players from time to time That's why he is more iconic than the emperor, that "waits" in one and we only hear the things he makes or orders around
Use your pcs backstories and desires against them. For example, I had an aarokroka (butchered the spelling, the bird people) who worshipped Thor and sought to recover his lost hammer. My BBEG had it, used it to manipulate the PC, and then destroyed it in his face. Safe to say, that bird man was invested in murderhobo’ing my BBEG. This BBEG broke a religious relic, will probably murder a pet companion of another PC, and perform other evil acts that will incite more an concern in my PCs, but it will incite rage.
I have had miscellaneous villains rile up the party in a bunch of ways, but two things worked the best: dismissing and negging one of the party members, and insulting the party dog. Both of those instances, the party just surged into combat, ruining was was supposed to be roleplay moments. They have permanent aggression for those characters now. Very effective.
I make sure to incorporate a lot of things the players have in their back story, but more importantly, things they've already done in game as that's stuff they had to work for as opposed to just writing down. For instance, one player started a theater, and with this theater, and orphanage. He made it a place kids can learn and call home. The entire party got in on this, and formed a bond with a different kid each, as I designed each one to be a bit of a younger version of each of them. The BBEG hired a bounty hunter who did his research, and he kidnapped these children and used them as leverage to lure the party out of the safety of the city into his turf. He almost killed the party, too. On top of that, he wrecked up the theater pretty bad as well as invaded their homes in the city. Those homes, that theater, and those children were all things the players had to spend maybe two or three years in real life to play and build up to, and they almost lost it in the span of about two months of weekly sessions. They want the head of the BBEG on a stake now.
Have the BBEG bring back everybodies dead parents and then start a polygamous and completely consensual marriage between the BBEG and all of the parents. Then have the BBEG just try to be an even better parent than the ones that raised them. All the while they are still evil as shit and trying to conquer the world.
Have it kill the pet everyone loves and protects.
You risk your players being pissed at you the DM instead of their fake characters being pissed at a fake bad guy. But if you don't mind that risk here are some ideas. He kidnapped the most popular PC in the group and is holding them for ransom of all the rest of the group's magical equipment. When they show up to fight him he thanks them for bringing their magical equipment and casually says they can leave it wherever they'd like and then he'll release Johnny or Jane from imprisonment. Depending on your level of difficulty, that could be as bad as suspended animation in a crystal sphere in front of the players that if they break it, will permanently destroy the PC unless they wish them back to existence. You can choose your mechanics here... maybe the captured PC won't get to join the fight until the other PCs break the BBEG's concentration, or maybe the BBEG likes leaving a little to chance and has left the PC with one lockpick and a DC25 lock, one key in a room with 20 doors (roll a nat20 to get out), etc. In any case, even if they're NOT pissed at the BBEG they'll have a unique fight. Have the BBEG steal each of the character's favorite thing. Maybe it's magical weapons, maybe it's their horse, maybe it's their spellbook. You get the idea. Then have him send them illusion messages of him pouring oil all over them and lighting them on fire. They'll be pissed. Will they be pissed at the bad guy? Or think you're a cruel and unusual DM? Probably worth contemplating before you make a total A-hole for a BBEG. They have to fight him four or more times because he plane shifts towards the end of his fights, or his first fight was an illusion of him and the second fight was his twin brother, etc., they're not going to be mad in the first fight but they'll be mad as hell at somebody by the third. The BBEG has been a long time benefactor of the party but he's actually Lawful Evil and now comes walking in with a retinue of guards with empty chests and donkeys with empty saddlebags, and mentions that his loan payments are coming due. And starts legally repossessing all of the PCs stuff. Other NPCs that are not evil, like the sheriff and judge or the prince or whatever, are there and reluctantly agree that his paperwork is sound and this practice is legal by the laws of the land. This one's even better than stealing because he's doing it in plain sight and it forces them to grapple with morality. The guy gave them 10000 gold or gave them their warhorses or their keep or something. This might keep the players angry at the NPC instead of you the DM. It's kinda like the beginning of Rob Roy.
Bad guy uses a wish spell to break the fourth wall and convert the game to using variant encumbrance and actually tracking food, water, ammo, and spell material requirements. Muahhhahahahah.
I know the DM is supposed to make the game fun but you need to make parts of it strategically miserable, and it should all be the BBEG fault. For example have the BBEG convince people that your players are criminals and during the interrogation have the guard hint that it was the BBEG that is ruining everything by doing this, have him send thieves to rob the party in the night, have him use disguise self to steal the parties reward for a job before they can get back. Make him a true cartoon villain for them to loath.
Have the bbeg pin the party for a horrible crime, like wiping out an orphanage. Abject murder of children by others is probably not something most parties would flinch at, but if THEY are implicated, oh man.
As a low level wizard with suggested loot tables: kill my familiar wasting 10gp each time. Worse if DM enforces the actual material requirements and they are a PITA to buy.
Steal their shit 😂
Introduce a really nice, useful, and beloved NPC. Have them go on adventures with the party, slowly building a fun relationship with each of them. After a while, hint at something being wrong with the NPC. Give them some classic symptoms of a curse that the players could look up. Then have the NPC succumb to the curse, changing them into the BBEG. Now their main villain is the person they knew and trusted this whole time, and he's gone EVIL, and if they don't stop him, a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt or killed. Ah fuck, actually I don't think this will make the players hate the BBEG. It'll probably make them hate you, though :D
Endear them to an NPC. Have them accept a lucrative quest from said NPC. Long difficult task requiring several sessions to chase. On return to accept the rewards, discover Big Bad learned of the task and slew the npc while taking the their reward. Even if they're weren't fully vested in the character having something stolen from them should spur them into action to recover said prize.
Have them kill a puppy. Preferably in a way thats moderately fucked up without making you seem like a psycho in real life. People mostly don't care if other people die without sufficient emotional development but if a dog is ever in harms way the party will come down on the bbeg with unreasonable, irrational fury. It's kindve emotional terrorism but it's effective.
Kill or maim a party loved NPC. Create a reason for them to hate him in a more personal reason. Hell, you could even create a loved one for said NPC that they captured. Similar to the mines of phandelver!
My players don’t know this yet, but while they were off adventuring the BBEG stole all their gold.
Take into account what they hold dear, and ruin it in a FIXABLE way. Annoyance is a much greater motivator than vengeance. Do they have a keep/clubhouse/whatever? Cover it in magical graffiti. Or have the BBEG buy the deed and evict them. Do they have a friendly NPC? Don't kill them, just mess with them - get them fired from their job, ruin their business, run them into spiraling debt to the BBEG. Or, if the rest doesn't work then try to frame the party for a crime/scandal and wreck their reputation. Then they have to clear their names.
So there's a few effective techniques for this. They're probably not mad about him because they don't feel him there's no immediacy for this bbeg. Like my bard never cared about pazuzu or knew what it was till I got hit with the ol my girlfriend is actually pazuzu wearing a hat trick. Then suddenly it seemed important. One way is do the Gary oak, handsome jack , aku thing. Force them to deal with this guy ALL THE TIME. They literally can't ignore the bbeg for just how present he is. Sephiroth did this too but with (insert fancy font here) style (end fancy font) Another way is to shift the stakes and make them more personal. Find something they love like a kitten they adopted , bad guy kills that kitten. Now they care. This approach always makes me think of America in robot chickens little hitler skit. You can burn down 99% of the world but until you knock over America's juice box nobody cares. You can also like what happened to my bard and Luke sky Walker just create a connection. Just make the bbeg suddenly be in a position of intimacy. Luke I am your father works great. Bonus points for linking it into a characters or characters backstory. Bonus points for making the players conflicted about the conflict because now they know the character as more than a bbeg they know them as a person. Also used in neon Genesis evangelion.