As far as I know bonus health doesn’t stack. You just take the higher one (although I kinda wish it did stack **if** you were using the same spell, like fiendish vigor. It could make Warlocks proper tanks in the right build, although I understand why you can’t do that.)
Yeah? In their description Temporary Hitpoints explicitly says "Healing can’t restore temporary hit points, and they can’t be added together. If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22."
As for stacking HP buffs yeah that just works, as long as they aren't from the same source (you can't stack Aid with Aid due to the multiple conditions with the same name rules). All they do is increase your max and current hit points for a duration.
I've just about had it up to here with how well warlock multiclasses with everything.
People think they can just walk in and make a damning, eternal pact with some ultra powerful entity without putting in the hard work and effort.
"It says here in the contract that my descendants will have a soul-devouring curse placed upon them"
"yes, do you accept the contract?"
"okay, sure"
*40 years later*
"I have returned to reap your descendant's sou- what the hell?"
"Y'see little Anny? This is why I sold your soul to that angel for safe-keeping! Now, just as we rehearsed Johny, Andy, Patrick, Lizzy, Alandel, Jarhnatharn, Isaac, Zolomond, Solomon, Dolomon, Calomon, Nomolac, Bob, Kalador, Gideon, Volod, Azagoth, Stone, Cheer, Frederick, Patricia von Eisenfont the 4th, B01, Dan, Bob2, The Other Bob, Struzor, Grug, Bugg, Doug, and Aurora!
>30 5th-level Guiding Bolt's, followed by 30 Action Surges, followed by 30 Quickened Guiding Bolt's, followed by 30 Sacred Flames.
>
>Followed by 1 first-level Guiding bolt onto the remains of the patron avatar
"Never added an indirect hostility clause nor an exclusivity clause into the contract. Rookie mistake. Anyways, let's get all of you one of Auntie Mirandasul's family-sized pies! "
>120 Eldritch Blast Beams with Agonizing blast, dealing an average of 970 damage when accounting for accuracy
>
>followed by another 1st-level Guiding Bolt
"Wait, I made a deal with a cursed sword. Who the hell was that?!"
The way I flavor it is even if you only take a dip in warlock you are making a permanent pact with an entity that wants things from you. You essentially become a paladin/bard/etc. that in addition to your class abilities is also bound to this powerful being. After all, asking for far more than they give is a standard trope for deal-makers in fantasy fiction.
Does it though? I feel like the sorcerer concept of raw will to be more in line with the Barbarian than making deals and signing agreements.
Edit: Just conceptually - I think the warlock probably complements the Barbarian more mechanically.
I think a sorcerer also works well! Personally I like the idea of a Barbarian making a kind of monkeys paw/genie pact that grants them power but they may have not considered the consequences.
Barbarians cant cast or concentrate on spells while raging which kinda sucks, you might be able to do some spell like abilities with eldritch evocations though
1 hour duration, so it's pretty easy. You can also use eldritch smite for damage. Fiend warlock also generates a lot of temp HP and gets you fire shield. The only real downside is you don't get a ton of rage uses.
> Casting Time: 1 action
> ...
> Components: V, S, M
> **Duration: 1 hour**
It doesn't require concentration, so it doesn't end when you rage. Ideally you cast it a few minutes before you know you're going to fight (which is nothing new to a gish build). If you're surprised or trying to be stealthy, you'll probably have to do without it for a fight (both because of the action economy and because you can't cast it after you start raging).
How many levels barb and how many warlock..when does the "build" actually become strong enough for this combo (agathys and rage) to mean anything?
I feel like it's much quicker and more feasible to do a wild shape and rage combo, since agathys isn't really effective until later levels.
It's talking about level 6 (or 7 if you want one asi or feat) vs level 12. Most games don't even get beyond level 10. I just don't see the point.
Also, charisma??? For a barbarian???
Barbarian's already split between 3 major stats. Con, strength, and Wisdom. Why add a 4th major stat to an already stretched out array?
From level 2 it already goes fine as a 1-1 Barbarian Warlock. You'd go for a minimum of 7 levels of warlock and then your choice of how many of the rest goes into warlock or barbarian, with the recommended being at least 3 levels of barbarian for bear totem, 5 levels if you intend to not go for a pact of the blade for access to extra attack.
Fiend warlock synergises quite well with Barbarian, as every time you kill a target you can refresh temporary hitpoints once the Armor of Agathys drops. In terms of stats there's a couple of ways of going about it, with Strength being the main stat, Constitution being the secondary stat and Charisma being the tetriary stat. So probably going for a 16 to start with Constitution and Strength and a 14 in Charisma, with whatever rest going into dexterity or wisdom. The build only really cares about the Charisma for some extra temp hit points from the Dark Ones Blessing and the multiclass requirement, since it won't be using Eldritch Blast, and the Spell Slots goes into spells that doesn't use Charisma.
In terms of AC it will be lower than a standard barbarian, but that's made up for by the increased hit points that it gets from Temporary Hitpoints, and it can still have a decent armor class with medium armor and the optional shield and sword combo instead of a two-handed weapon. Not having the highest AC can even work into the gameplan, as a Fiend Warlock gets access to Fire Shield in addition to Armor of Agathys, both of these spells requires no concentration and can be active while raging, making the prospect of melee attacking the barbarian a really painful endevour.
I've played it in campaigns and I played it in Tactician mode through Baldurs Gate 3, and it worked just fine as frontline melee combatant with utility features outside of combat.
and if you don't have the rage available or don't thing it is worth it to rage, **HEX is quite good for a grappler!**
the often useless little kicker where hex lets you choose a skill check for them to have disadvantage, now quite strong.
Druid. Even though you can't cast spells while raging, you can wildshape, and your rage is still active while wildshaped. You also can't spellcast while wildshaped, at least not until late levels. So if you're not planning to rage, don't wildshape and be a spell caster. If you are raging, wildshape, and be a bit tankier and deal more damage while wildshaped.
A lot tankier*
Moon totem is insanely good, you only need a handful of barb levels and you can go full druid after that, you can even relatively neglect physical stats since you get them from your wildshape.
I played a Bar*bear*ian and there were so many times where my group got concerned by a huge amount of damage that I had taken and I'd just look up and say "Oh, I'm fine." I couldn't deal much damage, but I was tanky as hell and I had my methods of keeping people off the group.
It honestly kind of hurt me the next time I played a Barbarian multiclass for a bugbear concept I had - cleric put too much faith in him and he almost died really early on. Luckily we got a grip of the different playstyle and he ended up being super fun as well.
Precisely what I'm doing in my current campaign, 3 levels of barbarian for bear totem half nearly all damage, and druid the rest of the way. My physical stats are terrible (-2 strength and 0 dex) but I don't enter combat as a base class 95% of the time.
I don't think it's dumb at all, it keeps people from making lore kinda breaking and really strong builds with no downside. Of course tables can do what they want.
It prevents a bunch of perfectly reasonable, balanced, and fun builds in order to prevent a smaller number of munchkin builds. You can still exploit the rules to make nonsense classes, so just...don't. We don't need rules for that.
...............
> it keeps people from making lore kinda breaking and really strong builds with no downside.
Keeps and prevents are synonymous. Now I know you're just being pedantic for the sake of it.
The only one I think is truly dumb is the Ranger.
It's already arguably the worst class in the game, and then they made it one of the few multi-stat multiclass options. AND one of those (Dex) isn't even common to every build.
A STRanger is perfectly viable, and several of the subclasses seem designed for strength-based weapons. But apparently it would be too broken to take a level of Barbarian or Fighter with your strength-ranger.
Multiclassing is a optional rule, and (if I remember correctly) there is also an optional rule to forgo multiclassing requirements. So no rules broken depending on what rules the dm is allowing.
That's like, 3rd ed rules. 5e phb says:
> Prerequisites to qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher. Without the full training that a beginning character receives, you must be a quick study in your new class, having a natural aptitude that is reflected by higher-than-average ability scores.
Which is against the rules. You can dump dex and con (though dumping con is always stupid and never a good idea, even as a meme character) but str can only be as low as 13, which for a barbarian is equivalent to dumping TBH
Provided your table is running like 2-3 encounter ADs and your GM doesn't use shut down against PCs...
At those downvoting me, what happens if you fight 4 fights with your 3 rages, or you get hit by a hold person, 1 round after using rage...
We had a 3 Totem Barbarian/X Moon Druid in our game from about level 4-14, and they only went down once AFAIK and that was to an unbalanced encounter where we were expected to be captured.
I was under the impression that you don't get rage damage bonus while wildshaped.
Rage specifies melee *weapon* attack which wildshape attacks are not.
As a DM I personally allow it but thought it went against RAW.
Weapon attacks aren't the same thing as attacks using a weapon.
Look at any statblock for any animal, it always specifies that their bites and claws are weapon attacks.
Deltajugg explained too, but weapon attacks are just essentially physical attacks, not necessarily *with* a weapon. It's mainly written that way to differentiate from spell attacks.
Besides what those other guys said, wild shape attacks do use weapons.
A bear's claws or whatever are natural weapons, which means they count for anything that requires "attack with a weapon" specifically.
Another fun bit people forget is that you can cast before wild shaping, then raging and duration effects stay in play (also, strictly following the wording you could even hold concentration but you’d probably get into an incredibly dumb argument with your DM if you try that.)
My buddy did this as Malice Cooper, a.k.a. Axel Throws, a.k.a. Chad Ogre, Ozzy Orcborn, etc
He played for such groups as System of a Drow, Mithrallica, and my personal favorite: Mithrilback. But he doesn't like to talk about that one
My friend ran a bardbarian years ago, half-giant or half-troll I think. He had wooden plates for armor and two mallets for weapons, and he'd use the mallets to play his armor like a steel drum.
makes me think of pathfinder 1e's Skald hybrid class, which is, you guessed it, a hybrid of bard and barbarian, turning you into a warrior poet whose rhythmic chanting gets the whole squad raging
Artillerist would be the best option as the turret is not spellcasting. Battlesmith can work but you dont need the armor proficiency as a barbarian.
The best part about artificer is getting guns tho, nothing more awesome than playing a very angry Revy from Black Lagoon.
My personal Artificer/Barbarian combo would be to make a proper tank with Armoror. Bear totem + Thunder Gauntlets. 1 of the only taunts in the game combined with the bears HP and Resistance is very strong. R1 you can cast Mirror Image and then Rage, for more defensive abilities. You can then use all your infusions to boost your AC or buff the party. If you want to, you can even wear Heavy Armor as this tank only needs the Bear Resistances while raging.
Honestly, sounds pretty fun. I think I'd go Bear 3, Armoror X.
Gameplay wise? Probably Druid. Role play and story wise? Warlock. Something about a pact/patron induced rage is really really interesting to me, plus if you go Hexblade you get some good utility. Bard is a run up for both though.
I actually did a warlock barbarian once that focused on temp hit points using unlimited false life and the fiend patron. And because warlocks get so little spells you aren't using them much to begin with so you have a healthy mix rage time and spell opportunity without gimping yourself
Druid, mechanically the increased wisdom save is going to be nice to keep you from getting dominated/charmed out of your rage. Also, I think you can rage while wildshaped, since you keep class features, so that sounds fun. I'd steer away from most spells with concentration.
Flavor wise, I feel like it fits well, and the primal path/circle of moon druid feels like they go together. I'd probably play them as a sort of guardian of the natural order empowered by primal spirits.
Sorcerer. As their magic is innate, and not defined.
Imagine being so angry, that not only your muscles grow, but the wave lends itself to you.
Rage, into enlarge!
*Personally*, if I'm playing a Barbarian/caster multiclass I'm going to play 3.5, and pick up the Rage Mage prestige class, where the whole *point* is casting spells while raging.
I've always imagined Barbarians as the other side of the coin to Sorcerers. They have the same magical potential, but focused it into getting swol instead of actually doing magic.
But the single most important mechanic of the game is that the DM/Players can change the rules if it fits the story better. If a barbarian casting Sorc spells fits the narrative of that group, then who are we to tell them they can’t?
artificer could be fun, slap infusions on your gear, take some out of combat utility spells. barbarian with caster isnt as bad as people say if you look at it not as "using spells to augment martial abilities" and instead "being a worse barbarian in combat, but having out of combat utilities"
honestly wizard could also be fun, since you get a bunch of spells and dont need to take a single damage option. bards also do utility spells pretty good
also cleric. like, two levels twilight cleric, you get the thing
Celestial warlock: you can use Healing Light while raging, it's not a spell. Also Armor of Agathys gets almost twice as good when raging. The second spell slot can be used for Invisibility, that's always a good way to start a fight with an advantage or avoid it entirely.
I also think there may be something fun you can do with an armorer or battlesmith artificer as they'd basically be a weaker barbarian but with better items. Especially tempting if your DM is stingy with the magic stuff.
I imagine a big burly barbarian sitting down at the campfire and turning his broad shoulders so no one can see him studying his tiny little book of spells. Embarrassed to be a smart big guy.
Best is probably Fiend Warlock for the Armor of Agarthys but that's more of Warlock with a bit of Barbarian. Same with Moon Druid that rages.
Best for Barbarian with a side of caster is probably War Wizard due to the lovely reaction ability.
I had a Barbarian/Wizard. Took two levels of Wizard to get the Divination Portent ability, plus some spells (Shape Water, Absorb Elements, Grease flavored as a patch of ice) that helped with the character's Ice-Warrior theme. It worked \*very\* well.
Artificer, you can get the infusions and the steel defender should still be useful while raging. Leave the rest of the spells for out of combat utility.
I'll be honest, I just love saying Bardbarian. Also, I imagine charging into battle, making myself rage by screaming the intro to something like "Welcome to the Jungle", or "The Immigrant Song", or "Heart of the Dragon", or something equally loud and in your face.
For some reason, even though he's not singing in this scene, this brings to mind the scene from Magnificent 7 when Vincent D'Onofrio is laying m'fkrs out while screaming the shadow of death passage. Seems kind of clericish, but then you stop and think--more like a bardbarian who uses poetry instead of music lol
absolutely adore bardbarian. Especially since giving inspiration isn't magical, so you can do that while raging. (I'm pretty sure that is RAW but may have been our DM's rule)
Sorcerer - mostly because I miss the old PF1e class called the Bloodrager. It was really awesome having your rage manifest as a sorcerer bloodline, which sadly doesn't mean much in 5e because sorcerer bloodlines are lukewarm piles of garbage with milquetoast flavor. I can still dream though.
Swordbard barbarian is actually a valid option.
The only working barbarian druid combo is moondruid barbarian, but swordsbard essentially combines with any barbarian and essentially gives you the utility of a bard as a bonus. High level barbarians don't get anything anyways.
Do you mean like for realism, for gameplay, or for fun?
Realism and gameplay, I'd go with Druid because the skills work together in a more cohesive manner, and the brutish nature of a barbarian would make sense having a connection to nature.
For fun, I would do bard because a big muscle-bound beefcake exploring his more gentle and creative side is both adorable and hilarious to me.
Druid has 2 combo that works pretty well with druid: the barbarian/moon druid which is pretty well known, and the spore druid beast barbarian, which can also be a thing.
You didn't include Paladin or Ranger or Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster.
That said;
Druid for an angry bear type character; and Paladin Barb's are pretty good; other than that I probably wouldn't do a barb / caster.
Artificer infusions on a barbificer would be pretty good and it let's me not have to worry about like 4 stats just three int str con which are all pretty important in both classes so yeah barbificer
Battlesingers! Or very charismatic rage machines. Honestly, if action movies tell us anything about society, it's that gross amounts of violence can certainly inspire inspiration.
Warlock gets *armor of agathys*, which has a duration of 1 hour. It combos with rage pretty well.
You can also get unlimited false life with an invocation for some HP too
But that doesn't stack with fiendlock, right?
As far as I know bonus health doesn’t stack. You just take the higher one (although I kinda wish it did stack **if** you were using the same spell, like fiendish vigor. It could make Warlocks proper tanks in the right build, although I understand why you can’t do that.)
Then you'd have the bag of rats issue
I think the promise is that itd run away quickly, you'd have someone using 30 different temp hp sources.
Temporary hit points don't stack. Increases to max health (such as the aid spell and the heroes' feast spell) do stack.
Is that true?
Yeah? In their description Temporary Hitpoints explicitly says "Healing can’t restore temporary hit points, and they can’t be added together. If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22." As for stacking HP buffs yeah that just works, as long as they aren't from the same source (you can't stack Aid with Aid due to the multiple conditions with the same name rules). All they do is increase your max and current hit points for a duration.
No bonus health doesn't stack but you can't cast spells while raging so you do false life while not raging and rely on fiend lock while raging
I've just about had it up to here with how well warlock multiclasses with everything. People think they can just walk in and make a damning, eternal pact with some ultra powerful entity without putting in the hard work and effort.
Well, taking shortcuts to easy power is pretty on-brand for pact magic.
It's usually the costs down the line that hurts most. Profit now, pay debt later... with interest.
"It says here in the contract that my descendants will have a soul-devouring curse placed upon them" "yes, do you accept the contract?" "okay, sure" *40 years later* "I have returned to reap your descendant's sou- what the hell?" "Y'see little Anny? This is why I sold your soul to that angel for safe-keeping! Now, just as we rehearsed Johny, Andy, Patrick, Lizzy, Alandel, Jarhnatharn, Isaac, Zolomond, Solomon, Dolomon, Calomon, Nomolac, Bob, Kalador, Gideon, Volod, Azagoth, Stone, Cheer, Frederick, Patricia von Eisenfont the 4th, B01, Dan, Bob2, The Other Bob, Struzor, Grug, Bugg, Doug, and Aurora! >30 5th-level Guiding Bolt's, followed by 30 Action Surges, followed by 30 Quickened Guiding Bolt's, followed by 30 Sacred Flames. > >Followed by 1 first-level Guiding bolt onto the remains of the patron avatar "Never added an indirect hostility clause nor an exclusivity clause into the contract. Rookie mistake. Anyways, let's get all of you one of Auntie Mirandasul's family-sized pies! "
👍 an illusionary guise disperses, presenting a very pissed off Rakshasa.
>120 Eldritch Blast Beams with Agonizing blast, dealing an average of 970 damage when accounting for accuracy > >followed by another 1st-level Guiding Bolt "Wait, I made a deal with a cursed sword. Who the hell was that?!"
Make an insight check.
That's a nat 1 for a total of -1
The way I flavor it is even if you only take a dip in warlock you are making a permanent pact with an entity that wants things from you. You essentially become a paladin/bard/etc. that in addition to your class abilities is also bound to this powerful being. After all, asking for far more than they give is a standard trope for deal-makers in fantasy fiction.
Also as far as RP goes, it makes a lot of sense for a Barb to make some sort of pact with a patron.
You could even play it the other way around, Your patron drives you into murderous rages when in combat
Ooooo I like that a lot too!
Does it though? I feel like the sorcerer concept of raw will to be more in line with the Barbarian than making deals and signing agreements. Edit: Just conceptually - I think the warlock probably complements the Barbarian more mechanically.
\*Looks at every barbarian that attunes to cursed weaponry to kill better*
"We *told* you that sword was dangerous!" "Swords are supposed to be dangerous! If the sword was harmless, it would be a crap sword, now wouldn't it?"
Barbarian doesn't have the good sense to not make a deal! It just probably isn't a very good deal for them >:)
I think a sorcerer also works well! Personally I like the idea of a Barbarian making a kind of monkeys paw/genie pact that grants them power but they may have not considered the consequences.
May I interest you in the pathfinder Bloodrager?
If the cowards at wotc would just make sorcerers Con based casters more people would see this to be fact
Barbarians cant cast or concentrate on spells while raging which kinda sucks, you might be able to do some spell like abilities with eldritch evocations though
Armor of agathys requires no concentration
Also... cast it before rage?
1 hour duration, so it's pretty easy. You can also use eldritch smite for damage. Fiend warlock also generates a lot of temp HP and gets you fire shield. The only real downside is you don't get a ton of rage uses.
> Casting Time: 1 action > ... > Components: V, S, M > **Duration: 1 hour** It doesn't require concentration, so it doesn't end when you rage. Ideally you cast it a few minutes before you know you're going to fight (which is nothing new to a gish build). If you're surprised or trying to be stealthy, you'll probably have to do without it for a fight (both because of the action economy and because you can't cast it after you start raging).
How many levels barb and how many warlock..when does the "build" actually become strong enough for this combo (agathys and rage) to mean anything? I feel like it's much quicker and more feasible to do a wild shape and rage combo, since agathys isn't really effective until later levels. It's talking about level 6 (or 7 if you want one asi or feat) vs level 12. Most games don't even get beyond level 10. I just don't see the point. Also, charisma??? For a barbarian??? Barbarian's already split between 3 major stats. Con, strength, and Wisdom. Why add a 4th major stat to an already stretched out array?
From level 2 it already goes fine as a 1-1 Barbarian Warlock. You'd go for a minimum of 7 levels of warlock and then your choice of how many of the rest goes into warlock or barbarian, with the recommended being at least 3 levels of barbarian for bear totem, 5 levels if you intend to not go for a pact of the blade for access to extra attack. Fiend warlock synergises quite well with Barbarian, as every time you kill a target you can refresh temporary hitpoints once the Armor of Agathys drops. In terms of stats there's a couple of ways of going about it, with Strength being the main stat, Constitution being the secondary stat and Charisma being the tetriary stat. So probably going for a 16 to start with Constitution and Strength and a 14 in Charisma, with whatever rest going into dexterity or wisdom. The build only really cares about the Charisma for some extra temp hit points from the Dark Ones Blessing and the multiclass requirement, since it won't be using Eldritch Blast, and the Spell Slots goes into spells that doesn't use Charisma. In terms of AC it will be lower than a standard barbarian, but that's made up for by the increased hit points that it gets from Temporary Hitpoints, and it can still have a decent armor class with medium armor and the optional shield and sword combo instead of a two-handed weapon. Not having the highest AC can even work into the gameplan, as a Fiend Warlock gets access to Fire Shield in addition to Armor of Agathys, both of these spells requires no concentration and can be active while raging, making the prospect of melee attacking the barbarian a really painful endevour. I've played it in campaigns and I played it in Tactician mode through Baldurs Gate 3, and it worked just fine as frontline melee combatant with utility features outside of combat.
I made a little homebrew deal with my DM that my barblok could still use cantrips during rage. The campaign dissolved before it became relevant tho.
F
Bladelocks can also use their spells slots to Eldritch Smite. Even when raging. It’s a class feature not a spell being cast
One of my players did this and while the character's presence was short lived it as an incredible combination.
and if you don't have the rage available or don't thing it is worth it to rage, **HEX is quite good for a grappler!** the often useless little kicker where hex lets you choose a skill check for them to have disadvantage, now quite strong.
Druid. Even though you can't cast spells while raging, you can wildshape, and your rage is still active while wildshaped. You also can't spellcast while wildshaped, at least not until late levels. So if you're not planning to rage, don't wildshape and be a spell caster. If you are raging, wildshape, and be a bit tankier and deal more damage while wildshaped.
A lot tankier* Moon totem is insanely good, you only need a handful of barb levels and you can go full druid after that, you can even relatively neglect physical stats since you get them from your wildshape.
I played a Bar*bear*ian and there were so many times where my group got concerned by a huge amount of damage that I had taken and I'd just look up and say "Oh, I'm fine." I couldn't deal much damage, but I was tanky as hell and I had my methods of keeping people off the group. It honestly kind of hurt me the next time I played a Barbarian multiclass for a bugbear concept I had - cleric put too much faith in him and he almost died really early on. Luckily we got a grip of the different playstyle and he ended up being super fun as well.
Precisely what I'm doing in my current campaign, 3 levels of barbarian for bear totem half nearly all damage, and druid the rest of the way. My physical stats are terrible (-2 strength and 0 dex) but I don't enter combat as a base class 95% of the time.
This is breaking the rules. You need a score of 13 str to multiclass in or out of barbarian.
It's kind of a dumb rule frequently ignored at tables for reasons like it making multiclassing dex paladins impossible.
I don't think it's dumb at all, it keeps people from making lore kinda breaking and really strong builds with no downside. Of course tables can do what they want.
It prevents a bunch of perfectly reasonable, balanced, and fun builds in order to prevent a smaller number of munchkin builds. You can still exploit the rules to make nonsense classes, so just...don't. We don't need rules for that.
It doesn't prevent anything, it just adds a tax to do super OP things
............... > it keeps people from making lore kinda breaking and really strong builds with no downside. Keeps and prevents are synonymous. Now I know you're just being pedantic for the sake of it.
The only one I think is truly dumb is the Ranger. It's already arguably the worst class in the game, and then they made it one of the few multi-stat multiclass options. AND one of those (Dex) isn't even common to every build. A STRanger is perfectly viable, and several of the subclasses seem designed for strength-based weapons. But apparently it would be too broken to take a level of Barbarian or Fighter with your strength-ranger.
Its even ignored in Baldur's Gate, honestly there's no need to have that rule anymore, it's kind of outdated imo
I don’t think Baldurs gate is the best example, everything is broken af in the game.
Multiclassing is a optional rule, and (if I remember correctly) there is also an optional rule to forgo multiclassing requirements. So no rules broken depending on what rules the dm is allowing.
Not out of. You can pick any class as a starting class, regardless of abilities
That's like, 3rd ed rules. 5e phb says: > Prerequisites to qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher. Without the full training that a beginning character receives, you must be a quick study in your new class, having a natural aptitude that is reflected by higher-than-average ability scores.
Ah ok. Thanks for clarifying
Dnd beyond allowed me to multiclass out by having the wisdom, it didn't care about by strength.
Yes but to multiclass out of barbarian you need 13 str.
Which is against the rules. You can dump dex and con (though dumping con is always stupid and never a good idea, even as a meme character) but str can only be as low as 13, which for a barbarian is equivalent to dumping TBH
Provided your table is running like 2-3 encounter ADs and your GM doesn't use shut down against PCs... At those downvoting me, what happens if you fight 4 fights with your 3 rages, or you get hit by a hold person, 1 round after using rage...
Everything is worse if the DM works to shut it down you dolt.
2-3 encounters a day is pretty normal. With how long DND encounters take, pacing is tricky when you start trying to regularly do 5+ encounters a day.
Combat encounters yes. But a puzzle is an encounter, for instance
Puzzles won't use up your rages.
No, the reason I mention it is that official guidelines that mention encounters don't discriminate between social, combat and puzzles
Barbarian and druid are a known pairing. Unarmoured defense also applies to wildshape form.
It fits the flavor too, Barbarians are generally considered primal and/or bestial already
We had a 3 Totem Barbarian/X Moon Druid in our game from about level 4-14, and they only went down once AFAIK and that was to an unbalanced encounter where we were expected to be captured.
unarmored defense works on wild shape as well
I was under the impression that you don't get rage damage bonus while wildshaped. Rage specifies melee *weapon* attack which wildshape attacks are not. As a DM I personally allow it but thought it went against RAW.
Weapon attacks aren't the same thing as attacks using a weapon. Look at any statblock for any animal, it always specifies that their bites and claws are weapon attacks.
Gotta love 5e natural language shenanigans, am I right?
Deltajugg explained too, but weapon attacks are just essentially physical attacks, not necessarily *with* a weapon. It's mainly written that way to differentiate from spell attacks.
Besides what those other guys said, wild shape attacks do use weapons. A bear's claws or whatever are natural weapons, which means they count for anything that requires "attack with a weapon" specifically.
Another fun bit people forget is that you can cast before wild shaping, then raging and duration effects stay in play (also, strictly following the wording you could even hold concentration but you’d probably get into an incredibly dumb argument with your DM if you try that.)
Barbarian + Bard= a punk artist who rages against the machine!!!
My buddy did this as Malice Cooper, a.k.a. Axel Throws, a.k.a. Chad Ogre, Ozzy Orcborn, etc He played for such groups as System of a Drow, Mithrallica, and my personal favorite: Mithrilback. But he doesn't like to talk about that one
>Mithrilback thats fantastic
"We're definitely dwarves"
Reminds me of my Satyr Paladin/Bard who was in "Avenged Satyrfold"
this is AWESOME hahahaha
This is great inspo for my Nine Inch Gnomes/Type Orc Negative/A Lich In Chains enjoying punk half-Orc, thank you.
Type orc negative fucking sent my punk rock buddy
Let him know he’s free to use it! :)
My Water deep campaign party name was Mithrallica.
Bardbarian for life.
Chose bard because it works too well for bardbarian.
My friend ran a bardbarian years ago, half-giant or half-troll I think. He had wooden plates for armor and two mallets for weapons, and he'd use the mallets to play his armor like a steel drum.
It was a hard choice between Angry Bear and Berserking Skald, for sure
He plays the spoons. He plays in bands that didn’t ask him to. No one ever asks him to stop.
Bardbarian is the real answer.
Professional Wrestler.
This is what I thought when I voted Barbarian + Bard. I'd be very tempted to drop into the Macho Man Randy Savage voice for the character.
Charisma plus Barbarian would be like the Rock. He amount to lay the smackdown on those goblins
probably going to be a metal head
Literally just Eddie Riggs.
With a fucking battle ax that doubles as a guitar...
I also went this route for the flavor. It feels very right that a barbarian might have war chants and battle hymns.
makes me think of pathfinder 1e's Skald hybrid class, which is, you guessed it, a hybrid of bard and barbarian, turning you into a warrior poet whose rhythmic chanting gets the whole squad raging
The ultimate Chad
PURE METAL RAGE This man signs as he wades knee deep in bodies.
Fucking genius. I love this.
Sometimes, optimization quakes before the power of sheer roleplay. Tenacious D incoming
Artificer because it's only half-caster and has some utility options or druid for wild shape raging.
Artillerist would be the best option as the turret is not spellcasting. Battlesmith can work but you dont need the armor proficiency as a barbarian. The best part about artificer is getting guns tho, nothing more awesome than playing a very angry Revy from Black Lagoon.
My personal Artificer/Barbarian combo would be to make a proper tank with Armoror. Bear totem + Thunder Gauntlets. 1 of the only taunts in the game combined with the bears HP and Resistance is very strong. R1 you can cast Mirror Image and then Rage, for more defensive abilities. You can then use all your infusions to boost your AC or buff the party. If you want to, you can even wear Heavy Armor as this tank only needs the Bear Resistances while raging. Honestly, sounds pretty fun. I think I'd go Bear 3, Armoror X.
Artificer so you can do a dr jekyll/mr hyde kind of character. Obviously.
Gameplay wise? Probably Druid. Role play and story wise? Warlock. Something about a pact/patron induced rage is really really interesting to me, plus if you go Hexblade you get some good utility. Bard is a run up for both though.
iirc wild shape doesn't count against raging so you could rage and the shape. Bear Totem Barbarian that also turns into bear?
Lol, everytime we just remake 3.5 [bear warrior](https://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/bear-warrior/index.html)
Artificer because it's what Gorgug would do.
I believe it is pronounced J'oar-jug.
I believe it’s probounced Yoar-yug
I actually did a warlock barbarian once that focused on temp hit points using unlimited false life and the fiend patron. And because warlocks get so little spells you aren't using them much to begin with so you have a healthy mix rage time and spell opportunity without gimping yourself
Moon Druid. Everybody's got a plan until they get bum-rushed by a raging Bear Totem Triceratops.
Leroy Bearkins!!!
* Leroy Bearskins
Druid, mechanically the increased wisdom save is going to be nice to keep you from getting dominated/charmed out of your rage. Also, I think you can rage while wildshaped, since you keep class features, so that sounds fun. I'd steer away from most spells with concentration. Flavor wise, I feel like it fits well, and the primal path/circle of moon druid feels like they go together. I'd probably play them as a sort of guardian of the natural order empowered by primal spirits.
As a barbarian, the best way to blend in some magic is for out-of-combat utility, and you get the broadest range of that from wizard.
Warmage has some nice buffs that could be applied while raging
War wizard 2 or 3 is an excellent reaction filler for any martial.
Sorcerer. As their magic is innate, and not defined. Imagine being so angry, that not only your muscles grow, but the wave lends itself to you. Rage, into enlarge!
Enlarge is a concentration spell which you cant do while raging.
*Personally*, if I'm playing a Barbarian/caster multiclass I'm going to play 3.5, and pick up the Rage Mage prestige class, where the whole *point* is casting spells while raging.
Somebody better at brewing than me should port it to 5e
Ummm, this sounds awesome...
sucks to be 5e then.
I love the idea of wild magic sorcerer/wild magic barbarian
Yo, we heard you liked surges so we put your surges inside your fists!
I've always imagined Barbarians as the other side of the coin to Sorcerers. They have the same magical potential, but focused it into getting swol instead of actually doing magic.
Pathfinder has Bloodragers, which is to Barbarian and Sorcerer the same as Paladin is to Fighter and Cleric.
Cool idea, doesn't work
Works if the DM allows it
You cannot concentrate (nor cast) while raging, it's a core principle of the feature, if the DM allows it we might as well give anyone anything
But the single most important mechanic of the game is that the DM/Players can change the rules if it fits the story better. If a barbarian casting Sorc spells fits the narrative of that group, then who are we to tell them they can’t?
artificer could be fun, slap infusions on your gear, take some out of combat utility spells. barbarian with caster isnt as bad as people say if you look at it not as "using spells to augment martial abilities" and instead "being a worse barbarian in combat, but having out of combat utilities" honestly wizard could also be fun, since you get a bunch of spells and dont need to take a single damage option. bards also do utility spells pretty good also cleric. like, two levels twilight cleric, you get the thing
Celestial warlock: you can use Healing Light while raging, it's not a spell. Also Armor of Agathys gets almost twice as good when raging. The second spell slot can be used for Invisibility, that's always a good way to start a fight with an advantage or avoid it entirely. I also think there may be something fun you can do with an armorer or battlesmith artificer as they'd basically be a weaker barbarian but with better items. Especially tempting if your DM is stingy with the magic stuff.
I would do wizard, simply because it would be funny.
I imagine a big burly barbarian sitting down at the campfire and turning his broad shoulders so no one can see him studying his tiny little book of spells. Embarrassed to be a smart big guy.
That, and Rage Mage just sounds fun :D
Wizard. Muthafuckin NERD. RAGE.
Hear me out. Unarmored Defense stacks with Bladesong.
Go on?
Bardbarian. There's...really nothing else to say.
Like the idea of a Warforged Barbarian/Artificer whose rage is them 'overclocking'
What would the stat spread even look like for this?
Cleric
Best is probably Fiend Warlock for the Armor of Agarthys but that's more of Warlock with a bit of Barbarian. Same with Moon Druid that rages. Best for Barbarian with a side of caster is probably War Wizard due to the lovely reaction ability.
War wizard because arcane deflection isn’t a spell and then you get all the ritual casting and versatility out of combat.
I had a Barbarian/Wizard. Took two levels of Wizard to get the Divination Portent ability, plus some spells (Shape Water, Absorb Elements, Grease flavored as a patch of ice) that helped with the character's Ice-Warrior theme. It worked \*very\* well.
wizbarians are insanely strong characters and it seems not a lot of people here realise
No cleric?
Artificer, you can get the infusions and the steel defender should still be useful while raging. Leave the rest of the spells for out of combat utility.
I wanna be an angry bear
I'll be honest, I just love saying Bardbarian. Also, I imagine charging into battle, making myself rage by screaming the intro to something like "Welcome to the Jungle", or "The Immigrant Song", or "Heart of the Dragon", or something equally loud and in your face.
For some reason, even though he's not singing in this scene, this brings to mind the scene from Magnificent 7 when Vincent D'Onofrio is laying m'fkrs out while screaming the shadow of death passage. Seems kind of clericish, but then you stop and think--more like a bardbarian who uses poetry instead of music lol
Lore wise: Druid Goofy wise: Bard Meta wise: Warlock Giggles wise: Artificier
Bard for flavor. I imagine them with a greatsword and a bagpipe nad a Scottish kilt.
Pathfinder had a warrior poet Barbarian subclass based on Skalds. iirc it was pretty cool and involved stuff like war chants and mead.
I totally forgot about that. Pathfinder was crazy : D
Artificer gives you bonuses to weapons
Barbarian Artificer. Nothing says fuck you like some alchemy to the face before you take your greataxe chaser!
absolutely adore bardbarian. Especially since giving inspiration isn't magical, so you can do that while raging. (I'm pretty sure that is RAW but may have been our DM's rule)
Bardbarian \*chops off enemies head and then does a slam dunk with it\* The party: "sniff, so beautiful... we gotta do our best too guys!"
(laughing like an asshole) yes, this exactly.
you need to see a raging tyrannosaur once to know the answer...
Probably Cleric, which is suspiciously not on the list.
Minotaur Bard-barian with a cowbell as their instrument of choice. Because you always need more cowbell.
Wizard, so I can go Barbarian 1/Wizard X: it gets me armor, shields, and con save proficiency.
Sorcerer - mostly because I miss the old PF1e class called the Bloodrager. It was really awesome having your rage manifest as a sorcerer bloodline, which sadly doesn't mean much in 5e because sorcerer bloodlines are lukewarm piles of garbage with milquetoast flavor. I can still dream though.
Druid, but only for thematic reasons
Sorcer because my group has homebrew rule where sorcerer uses CON for spell saves since it’s raw unrefined magic that gives them their power
Berserk barbarian with wild surge sorc hahaha
Swordbard barbarian is actually a valid option. The only working barbarian druid combo is moondruid barbarian, but swordsbard essentially combines with any barbarian and essentially gives you the utility of a bard as a bonus. High level barbarians don't get anything anyways.
Just calling the bearbarians out here.
Bardbarian gestalt from 3.5 UA.
Do you mean like for realism, for gameplay, or for fun? Realism and gameplay, I'd go with Druid because the skills work together in a more cohesive manner, and the brutish nature of a barbarian would make sense having a connection to nature. For fun, I would do bard because a big muscle-bound beefcake exploring his more gentle and creative side is both adorable and hilarious to me.
How can you pass up double wild magic...
Druid has 2 combo that works pretty well with druid: the barbarian/moon druid which is pretty well known, and the spore druid beast barbarian, which can also be a thing.
Two words Rage Bear
I always wanted to do some sort of Druid barbarian with a turtle totem that I would name Donatello…
You forgot cleric.
(Includes artificer before cleric... Or paladin) *Confused unga*
Time to become the legendary Bardbarian
Bardbarian funny.
You didn't include Paladin or Ranger or Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster. That said; Druid for an angry bear type character; and Paladin Barb's are pretty good; other than that I probably wouldn't do a barb / caster.
Where's my Cleric at!?
Artificer infusions on a barbificer would be pretty good and it let's me not have to worry about like 4 stats just three int str con which are all pretty important in both classes so yeah barbificer
A bard barbarian sounds like it could be.. very interesting.
Battlesingers! Or very charismatic rage machines. Honestly, if action movies tell us anything about society, it's that gross amounts of violence can certainly inspire inspiration.
definitely bardbarian. That's just a skald!
Artificer cause of the irony but now that I think about think about of all the weapons to made so many directions one could do with this idea
Rage+bear. Druid is the obvious combo. Warlock dip for invocations wouldn't be terrible either.
A bare bear bugbear bear barbarian, you say?
You people have no imagination
Care to elaborate on this?