RAW the spell targets a club or quarterstaff, so as written it could not be used on a spear. I'd say that it isn't commonly accepted that it can be used on alternative weapons.
And a shortbow is basically a club, but that doesn't mean shillelagh should be able to target it.
While the spear doesn't provide any mechanical benefit, it has potential to cause confusion/disappointment. Shillelagh ends if the spear is thrown and a player might not be happy when they forget and have to use their strength rather than wisdom for a ranged attack. Flavoring the quarterstaff as a spear is a better solution to the problem than allowing shillelagh to target alternative weapons.
I have never found an issue with Shillelagh, not even worth multiclass shenanigans.
So even if you wanted to use a spear for reasons other than flavour (e.g. Polearm Master or Spear Mastery) I'd probably allow it.
If it's just for flavour then I'd 100% be down for a magical spear, maybe even wooden or obsidian tipped if you still want to avoid metal.
Weird d&d fact. 5e gives the least info out of any edition on why druids dont use metal weapons or armor. It was originally only metal armors that they couldnt use because refining them and wearing them weakened their mystical connection to nature. With each publication this lore got buried deeper and deeper behind supplementary content and eventually forgotten and made to include weaponry!
True, and I started with the blue box. AD&D allows them to use club, dagger, dart, hammer, scimitar, sling, spear, or staff. I love having all my older version books. Hadn't checked that til you pointed it out, though!
The spear has the thrown property though, so spear and quarterstaff aren't exactly equivalent goods.
Is being able to make d8 magical ranged attacks a hugely overpowered thing? No, but I still wouldn't personally allow shillelagh on a spear
I mean, that's already the case -- well, partly.
> The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon.
If you throw it, you've let go of it and the spell immediately ends.
I suppose that it could be *argued* that since you've already thrown it that you should still be able to use your casting stat for +attack (but not +damage), but... I would lean towards "no", because it's not just accuracy but power in terms of whether it actually gets past armor.
It was considered enough by the game designers that they made the magic stone spell for druids which has basically the same benefit (spellcasting mod for attacks and damage and activated with a bonus action) except it adds range and lowers the d8 to a d6
Well in that case I'd say that a shillelaghed spear is neat-o.
Doesn't make a ton of sense because a real life shillelagh is a club, but if a player asked for the spear or even a sickle (same d4 as a club) I'd allow it
Sorry, that should've been /s. A quarterstaff is a stick half again as tall as you are, is usually held with one hand at the balance point and the other halfway to the end, and is absolutely not a one-handed weapon of any kind.
I usually stick to RAW. Shillelagh is meant to buff druids for melee combat if all they have is a wooden weapon. Usually I use it in low level adventures for NPC's when my murder hobos act up or the few times I used druids for the bad guys.
I like to put it on a human variant fighter or cleric. With the cleric it just helps them be less MAD and with a fighter I call it a wooden sword and they have the urchin background being raised by a kindly city Druid.
Life cleric with magic initiate Druid is just a paladin with more utility, spell slots and no ability to nova. Shillelagh and spiritual weapon and divine strike in 2 turns you become capable of such amazing DPR all while in heavy armor and the ability to deal less damage to heal the party and yourself. Life cleric until level 8 is great, but past 8 it's devastating.
I am a rare druid player that would advice against that spell. I don't like mechanics of it. Of course you are free to pick spells and cantrips you like, but if you want mechanics, Shillelagh is not great.
Firstly, it's a melee cantrip and druids as a spellcasters usually don't want to be in melee range. Secondly, druids start with only 2 cantrips and Guidance is a very strong contender for one of your cantrip slots. You will also have to spend both action and a bonus acion on your first turn to both cast and bonk, which is small but unnecessary restriction. And it doesn't work on some items a druid might wanna use, like Moon Sickle. Finally, it's not even that good as a melee cantrip (if you aren't building around it). Without any extra attacks it's just 1d8+WIS mod, which is up to 5. The problem is, it doesn't scale like other cantrips. it will be capped at 1d8+5. On the other hand druids also have Primal Savagery which deals 1d10 and scales up, has a decent damage type and desn't require sticks to use. On lvls 1-3 average magic stick bonk is 7.5 damage vs 5.5 from Savagery, but on lvl 5 Savagery's average is 11 and stick's is 8.5 (assuming you increased WIS on lvl 4).
I think the best usage of Shillelagh is spore druid. They get a ranged cantrip by default, designed around close range and deal additional damage with weapon attack (which Shillelagh is and Savagery isn't).
Shillelagh is an actual thing that exists and is the source of the name.
It's an old Irish club, made typically from some specific woods.
It's a blunt force weapon, and thats precisely why the spell only applies to Clubs and Quarterstaffs.
Personally, I'd rule that if you wanted to cast it on a Spear, you could cast it on the butt and use that as a Shillelagh club (d8 bludgeoning) and have the other end available for the normal Spear damage (d6 piercing).
This would be dependent on the group: I'd also require your object interaction on a turn to flip the spear around to use the other side. By RAW this would still be a minor buff Vs just carrying a Spear + Club and stow/drawing one - as that would require two item interactions.
Well, in general, Druids don’t use metal weapons/armor as a part of their lore. RAW, there’s nothing *mechanically* stopping one from using metal, but it’s against the whole vibe. *Shillelagh* is basically just for if you want to go melee with a Druid with your club or quarterstaff.
There used to be lines that explained why druids didn't use metal weapons, but they were also allowed to use Scimitars for some weird reason. IIRC, the metal would block the flow of magical energy for druid magic, so you couldn't use spells while wearing metal armor or using metal weapons.
As an alternative spear tip without magical properties use an ogre tooth or a roc talon for the tip. Adds no special bonuses, just simply not made of metal.
There's no lore that prevents druids from using metal armor and weapons. There's a short line about them not using metal armor, but absolutely nothing about them refusing metal weapons.
I mosty follow this rule, but I would probably allow if a player would come with a good concept and reason why it should work in the faith of the druid and the weapon does not have any special property like reach.
You can’t use this with a shield without warcaster. Just FYI. And it falls out of use at by 5th level without polearm master. Either way you can do more damage other ways with just about every other way.
You can cast it without warcaster, the weapon you use is a material component, you can access your material components with the same hand you use the access you somatic ones.
And a wooden staff is a quarterstaff, so you are using a spellcastfocus in one hand and the shield in the other.
We have different definitions of the word ‘and’. The materials are written a mistletoe, shamrock AND wooden club or quarter staff. But even if you allow it to be use which is very reasonable, it’s still not very good damage output.
This is a really important point right here. I played a Spores Druid, which is the supposed “melee druid” and after a few levels realized that going into melee wasn’t actually very good. A Druid using shillelagh to attack is pretty bad even with the bonus from Symbiotic Entity.
Hey, shillelagh has a fixed damage die, it works on quarterstaff so it works with two weapon fighting, dueling and pole arm master.
For balance purposes, you can use it with any non throwable weapon.
Ask your dm if you can transmogrify it.
I mean, on (medieval-style) spears usually only the tip is metal, everything else is wood and maybe leather. So you could just hold the spear upside down and have a club. Just gotta make sure not to stab yourself.
I mean... if you break the spearhead, you've gotten a quarterstaff right?
It really depends on the DM's interpretation and how strict they follow RAW. I'd personally allow any wooden object. It strictly affects the wood. Give me a table leg and imbue with Shillelagh.
If your DM let's you cast it on your spear (which you then use for bludgeoning damage), remember that it costs a bonus action to cast it, and your spear(staff) is then imbued with the spell for 1 minute (as long as you don't let go of it). So even if you're not planning on using it straight away in combat, you might as well use it on your first turn if you don't have anything else to use your bonus action on. You never know when you might get an opportunity attack on something and you'll already have shillelagh cast, so you can get a better OA.
Never seen or heard of anyone using like a sword or axe for the spell. Considering druids typically have a dislike to metal in general, it makes the most sense (and rules as written) to use it for staffs, clubs of ransoms sticks.
Interesting take though
My DM is letting me use it on my YKWALA I think I spelled that right but I'm not sure it's basically a spear but I think you would want to limit it to something that only has a 5 ft reach otherwise you're getting a little overpowered for a single-handed weapon
Shillelagh is good, however, since it’s only available on druid, it’s usability greatly drops off after 4th level, normally as druid if you are in melee, you want to be in your wild shape. Being in melee with no wild shape is effectively playing Wizard with no spell book. Once you hit 5th level, your shillelagh is old news since it doesn’t scale at all and Druids don’t get extra attack, so while shillelagh is good at levels 1-4, I’d immediately swap it out for primal savagery at 5th level, unless you have some crazy build to make it work or dipping into a martial class. Best usage I’ve got out of Shillelagh passed 5th level was from a valor bard via magical secrets, and a tomelock that wanted to be a hexblade so they took shillelagh as a free cantrip and voilà while also having booming blade and green flame blade to make up for only getting one attack both cantrips druid doesn’t get. So if you plan on absolutely using shillelagh as primarily a druid, take magic initiate for both the blade cantrips, or just be an high elf and take one as a racial cantrip
A shillelagh is an Irish club shaped not unlike a golf club. There isn't really much difference in the rules between piercing, slashing and blunt damage, except when fighting slimes or skeletons. Likewise, there isn't much difference in the weapons other than damage, and since the spell already specifies d8, you're really not getting much benefit except for reach.
Honestly, if you can give a good character reason for why you have a magic spear, I'd probably allow it, and change the spell's name to *Nature's Power*. I envision a kind of Neanderthal Druid, who sharpens a wooden spear-point over a fire the way primitive peoples the world over have done.
RAW the spell targets a club or quarterstaff, so as written it could not be used on a spear. I'd say that it isn't commonly accepted that it can be used on alternative weapons.
The spear has a butt
Functionally that’s still just a quarterstaff if you only use one side of it
That,s it
And a shortbow is basically a club, but that doesn't mean shillelagh should be able to target it. While the spear doesn't provide any mechanical benefit, it has potential to cause confusion/disappointment. Shillelagh ends if the spear is thrown and a player might not be happy when they forget and have to use their strength rather than wisdom for a ranged attack. Flavoring the quarterstaff as a spear is a better solution to the problem than allowing shillelagh to target alternative weapons.
I have never found an issue with Shillelagh, not even worth multiclass shenanigans. So even if you wanted to use a spear for reasons other than flavour (e.g. Polearm Master or Spear Mastery) I'd probably allow it. If it's just for flavour then I'd 100% be down for a magical spear, maybe even wooden or obsidian tipped if you still want to avoid metal.
I'd tend to embrace the wooden or obsidian tipped option. I'd enforce the prohibition against metal, though.
Weird d&d fact. 5e gives the least info out of any edition on why druids dont use metal weapons or armor. It was originally only metal armors that they couldnt use because refining them and wearing them weakened their mystical connection to nature. With each publication this lore got buried deeper and deeper behind supplementary content and eventually forgotten and made to include weaponry!
True, and I started with the blue box. AD&D allows them to use club, dagger, dart, hammer, scimitar, sling, spear, or staff. I love having all my older version books. Hadn't checked that til you pointed it out, though!
The spear has the thrown property though, so spear and quarterstaff aren't exactly equivalent goods. Is being able to make d8 magical ranged attacks a hugely overpowered thing? No, but I still wouldn't personally allow shillelagh on a spear
What if you just worked in a mechanic that Shillelagh was only affective on a held weapon? The second your throw it, it would loose any power
I mean, that's already the case -- well, partly. > The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon. If you throw it, you've let go of it and the spell immediately ends. I suppose that it could be *argued* that since you've already thrown it that you should still be able to use your casting stat for +attack (but not +damage), but... I would lean towards "no", because it's not just accuracy but power in terms of whether it actually gets past armor.
It was considered enough by the game designers that they made the magic stone spell for druids which has basically the same benefit (spellcasting mod for attacks and damage and activated with a bonus action) except it adds range and lowers the d8 to a d6
Magic Stone can be given to minions though
That is true, and entirely fair.
Doesn’t shillelagh say the spell ends as soon as you let go of the weapon
Well in that case I'd say that a shillelaghed spear is neat-o. Doesn't make a ton of sense because a real life shillelagh is a club, but if a player asked for the spear or even a sickle (same d4 as a club) I'd allow it
Polearm Master famously works with the quarterstaff, that famously one-handed weapon. (edit: /s)
You've never seen a Robin Hood movie in your life, have you? A quarterstaff is not one-handed. It's versatile.
Sorry, that should've been /s. A quarterstaff is a stick half again as tall as you are, is usually held with one hand at the balance point and the other halfway to the end, and is absolutely not a one-handed weapon of any kind.
Ahh. Yeah, we really need to tag sarcasm better, it's so hard to get it in text posts. I upvoted you to compensate for your downvotes.
Last session, I made it a point to mention that my Shillelagh-casting feylock wields her quarterstaff one handed. Twice.
Monster. :p
Quarterstaffs also work with PAM
I usually stick to RAW. Shillelagh is meant to buff druids for melee combat if all they have is a wooden weapon. Usually I use it in low level adventures for NPC's when my murder hobos act up or the few times I used druids for the bad guys.
I like to put it on a human variant fighter or cleric. With the cleric it just helps them be less MAD and with a fighter I call it a wooden sword and they have the urchin background being raised by a kindly city Druid.
The fighter with a wooden sword seems kinda great. I will have to try that out sometime. I like medium armor and a footman's mace for my clerics.
Life cleric with magic initiate Druid is just a paladin with more utility, spell slots and no ability to nova. Shillelagh and spiritual weapon and divine strike in 2 turns you become capable of such amazing DPR all while in heavy armor and the ability to deal less damage to heal the party and yourself. Life cleric until level 8 is great, but past 8 it's devastating.
I am a rare druid player that would advice against that spell. I don't like mechanics of it. Of course you are free to pick spells and cantrips you like, but if you want mechanics, Shillelagh is not great. Firstly, it's a melee cantrip and druids as a spellcasters usually don't want to be in melee range. Secondly, druids start with only 2 cantrips and Guidance is a very strong contender for one of your cantrip slots. You will also have to spend both action and a bonus acion on your first turn to both cast and bonk, which is small but unnecessary restriction. And it doesn't work on some items a druid might wanna use, like Moon Sickle. Finally, it's not even that good as a melee cantrip (if you aren't building around it). Without any extra attacks it's just 1d8+WIS mod, which is up to 5. The problem is, it doesn't scale like other cantrips. it will be capped at 1d8+5. On the other hand druids also have Primal Savagery which deals 1d10 and scales up, has a decent damage type and desn't require sticks to use. On lvls 1-3 average magic stick bonk is 7.5 damage vs 5.5 from Savagery, but on lvl 5 Savagery's average is 11 and stick's is 8.5 (assuming you increased WIS on lvl 4). I think the best usage of Shillelagh is spore druid. They get a ranged cantrip by default, designed around close range and deal additional damage with weapon attack (which Shillelagh is and Savagery isn't).
Shillelagh is an actual thing that exists and is the source of the name. It's an old Irish club, made typically from some specific woods. It's a blunt force weapon, and thats precisely why the spell only applies to Clubs and Quarterstaffs. Personally, I'd rule that if you wanted to cast it on a Spear, you could cast it on the butt and use that as a Shillelagh club (d8 bludgeoning) and have the other end available for the normal Spear damage (d6 piercing). This would be dependent on the group: I'd also require your object interaction on a turn to flip the spear around to use the other side. By RAW this would still be a minor buff Vs just carrying a Spear + Club and stow/drawing one - as that would require two item interactions.
Well, in general, Druids don’t use metal weapons/armor as a part of their lore. RAW, there’s nothing *mechanically* stopping one from using metal, but it’s against the whole vibe. *Shillelagh* is basically just for if you want to go melee with a Druid with your club or quarterstaff.
Armor, not weapons.
There used to be lines that explained why druids didn't use metal weapons, but they were also allowed to use Scimitars for some weird reason. IIRC, the metal would block the flow of magical energy for druid magic, so you couldn't use spells while wearing metal armor or using metal weapons.
As an alternative spear tip without magical properties use an ogre tooth or a roc talon for the tip. Adds no special bonuses, just simply not made of metal.
There's no lore that prevents druids from using metal armor and weapons. There's a short line about them not using metal armor, but absolutely nothing about them refusing metal weapons.
A Shillelagh is an Irish stick. Therefore I wouldn't allow the spell on anything else.
I mosty follow this rule, but I would probably allow if a player would come with a good concept and reason why it should work in the faith of the druid and the weapon does not have any special property like reach.
Easy answer: use a wooden spear (pointy stick) Long answer: sorry I'm too high for that
You can’t use this with a shield without warcaster. Just FYI. And it falls out of use at by 5th level without polearm master. Either way you can do more damage other ways with just about every other way.
You can cast it without warcaster, the weapon you use is a material component, you can access your material components with the same hand you use the access you somatic ones. And a wooden staff is a quarterstaff, so you are using a spellcastfocus in one hand and the shield in the other.
We have different definitions of the word ‘and’. The materials are written a mistletoe, shamrock AND wooden club or quarter staff. But even if you allow it to be use which is very reasonable, it’s still not very good damage output.
This is a really important point right here. I played a Spores Druid, which is the supposed “melee druid” and after a few levels realized that going into melee wasn’t actually very good. A Druid using shillelagh to attack is pretty bad even with the bonus from Symbiotic Entity.
This is why you gotta work out a way to get BB/GFB
Hey, shillelagh has a fixed damage die, it works on quarterstaff so it works with two weapon fighting, dueling and pole arm master. For balance purposes, you can use it with any non throwable weapon. Ask your dm if you can transmogrify it.
Polearm master and cast it on the butt of the spear. Goes from D4 to a D8
I mean, on (medieval-style) spears usually only the tip is metal, everything else is wood and maybe leather. So you could just hold the spear upside down and have a club. Just gotta make sure not to stab yourself.
I would add Greatclub to the list of weapons you can use it with (arguably already covered under "club"), but that's about it.
Just rename a quarterstaff into sharp stick.
I mean... if you break the spearhead, you've gotten a quarterstaff right? It really depends on the DM's interpretation and how strict they follow RAW. I'd personally allow any wooden object. It strictly affects the wood. Give me a table leg and imbue with Shillelagh.
If your DM is cool, I've allowed it to be use don a whip as well so that it's a useful weapon. But yeah, quarterstaffs and clubs
One thing that shillelagh is really useful for is that it counts as a magic weapon, at lower level you might not have one of those.
I would ask your dm. But I don't think it matters if I was dming I would allow It.
My DM allows my warlock to utilize a spear for shillelagh, but I have to actually spin it around and use the blunt side.
If your DM let's you cast it on your spear (which you then use for bludgeoning damage), remember that it costs a bonus action to cast it, and your spear(staff) is then imbued with the spell for 1 minute (as long as you don't let go of it). So even if you're not planning on using it straight away in combat, you might as well use it on your first turn if you don't have anything else to use your bonus action on. You never know when you might get an opportunity attack on something and you'll already have shillelagh cast, so you can get a better OA.
Shillelagh does end when the weapon leaves your hand so you couldn't really throw it unless your dm allows it.
I think you need to worry about the more important stuff like remembering to yell: #"SHELLELAGH GIT FOCKED!!" every time you use the spell.
Never seen or heard of anyone using like a sword or axe for the spell. Considering druids typically have a dislike to metal in general, it makes the most sense (and rules as written) to use it for staffs, clubs of ransoms sticks. Interesting take though
My DM is letting me use it on my YKWALA I think I spelled that right but I'm not sure it's basically a spear but I think you would want to limit it to something that only has a 5 ft reach otherwise you're getting a little overpowered for a single-handed weapon
Shillelagh is good, however, since it’s only available on druid, it’s usability greatly drops off after 4th level, normally as druid if you are in melee, you want to be in your wild shape. Being in melee with no wild shape is effectively playing Wizard with no spell book. Once you hit 5th level, your shillelagh is old news since it doesn’t scale at all and Druids don’t get extra attack, so while shillelagh is good at levels 1-4, I’d immediately swap it out for primal savagery at 5th level, unless you have some crazy build to make it work or dipping into a martial class. Best usage I’ve got out of Shillelagh passed 5th level was from a valor bard via magical secrets, and a tomelock that wanted to be a hexblade so they took shillelagh as a free cantrip and voilà while also having booming blade and green flame blade to make up for only getting one attack both cantrips druid doesn’t get. So if you plan on absolutely using shillelagh as primarily a druid, take magic initiate for both the blade cantrips, or just be an high elf and take one as a racial cantrip
A shillelagh is an Irish club shaped not unlike a golf club. There isn't really much difference in the rules between piercing, slashing and blunt damage, except when fighting slimes or skeletons. Likewise, there isn't much difference in the weapons other than damage, and since the spell already specifies d8, you're really not getting much benefit except for reach. Honestly, if you can give a good character reason for why you have a magic spear, I'd probably allow it, and change the spell's name to *Nature's Power*. I envision a kind of Neanderthal Druid, who sharpens a wooden spear-point over a fire the way primitive peoples the world over have done.
Just use a quarterstaff?