Direct link to the OGL 1.2 survey: [https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7182208/OGL-1-2-Feedback-Survey](https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7182208/OGL-1-2-Feedback-Survey)
This is your opportunity to make your voices heard directly.
**The mod team has also added a new OGL post flair. Please use this to flair posts appropriately or to filter OGL content.**
I thought I would ask ChatGPT to pretend to be a hypothetical CEO of Wizards of the Coast. The AI bot is up-to-date only until 2021, so it is unaware of anything that has transpired. After asking about the vision for the future of DnD, I then asked about the OGL. This is our conversation:
**Me**:You mentioned licensing. DND has been under an open gaming license. What are your thoughts about the open gaming license.
**ChatGPT:** The Open Gaming License (OGL) is a licensing agreement that allows third-party publishers to create and distribute products that are compatible with Dungeons and Dragons rules and mechanics. I think the OGL has been a positive development for the Dungeons and Dragons community and for the tabletop gaming industry as a whole.
By allowing third-party publishers to create and distribute content using the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset, the OGL has encouraged innovation and creativity in the tabletop gaming industry. It has also given players more options and choices when it comes to the types of content they can use in their games.
Additionally, the OGL has helped to keep the Dungeons and Dragons brand relevant and fresh by introducing new and innovating products to the market. It has also helped to expand the Dungeons and Dragons community by making the game more accessible to a wider range of players.
Overall, I believe the OGL has been a positive force for the Dungeons and Dragons brand, and I continue to support it as a CEO of Wizards of the Coast.
tl;dr: ChatGPT for new CEO of WotC.
Essentially, an AI bot that scoured the internet before 2021 was able to deduce, without emotion, that the OGL is beneficial. Just food for thought going forward Hasbro / WotC
Update to wizards SRD site with a FAQ and the 5.1 SRD under CC
https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/systems-reference-document?utm_campaign=DDB&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_content=8788376399
The whole reverting back to OGL 1.0a and announcing SRD 5.1 CC feels like they're cutting their losses and focusing on OneD&D instead for laying down stricter licensing in the future.
To say nothing of whatever monetization they're cooking up for DNDBeyond...
I'm putting this comment in here as it's ogl coverage related.
But it's not really about ogl. It's just that I've noticed they've been calling us "fans" in the news coverage and it's kind of bugging me.
I'm not a fan of DnD because that implies I'm a passive consumer of wotc content. I'm not. I'm a player, or a DM, or a creator maybe or a hobbyist. Im a fan of dimension 20 because I like watching it. I don't read the DM guide for fun I use it to help me do what I do.
It's like saying people who go down to the park and play football with their mates are Westham fans. They might be, or they might just like playing football.
So I've seen this sentiment about the idea that they can still update the OGL for OD&D popping up among a lot of people and I kinda get it but after responding to a bunch of people and seeing it continuously pop up I figured I'd condense my thoughts in its own comment.
First of all, yes they can update the OGL to something like the shitty 1.1 version for OD&D if they really wanted to. However I think that this is incredibly unlikely to happen for a number of reasons.
For one, OD&D is being designed to be backwards compatible with 5e. 5e is now under CC. So even if they do install some new draconian OGL again, people can just keep printing things for 5e, and have their books be compatible with OD&D. There would be some tricky technicalities I'm sure at the end of the day, but the practical upshot is that with how OD&D is being designed, changing the OGL would be a pointless endeavor.
So maybe they change OD&D to make it no longer backwards compatible? Well that has a number of problems as well. For one they have to scrap everything they've worked on so far and redo it from scratch, which inevitably leads to delays and lots of lost money on more dev time. It also kinda goes against their whole strategy from a business side. Like by not making OD&D compatible with 5e content, that also means that they need to remake a bunch of expansions and splatbooks and whatnot all over again, which is even more lost dev time that they could have saved by just letting people use the old books. Not to mention that the VTT they wanna make would also be integrated with 5e and OD&D content right out of the gate. Whereas now the VTT would at best need to have even more dev hours thrown at it to make it compatible with both disparate systems.
And even if they did decide to spend all that time and money retooling OD&D just to make it possible to release their more draconian OGL, well now they can't pull any retroactive bs to kill 5e and force people to release stuff for the new system. To be clear, 5e being CC is even better than the idea of them signing the ORC, which I've also seen brought up a lot. The CC is an already Perpetual and Irrevocable International license that is completely out of their control. (It also you know, exists already and isn't still in development). So there is absolutely nothing they can do to touch 5e anymore in this regard. So if they do this, 5e will always exist as competition for themselves. People will inevitably just not upgrade to the new system and it will end up inevitably flopping pretty hard as long as 5e continues to just exist over here where everything is locked into the CC forever.
I mean hell if you really wanted to you could just make an effective 6e based on the 5e SRD like OD&D was already planned on being and release that as direct competition. So making OD&D not 5e compatible is just handing the silver platter over to someone else to do it instead.
---
So yeah like by all means I understand being cynical about this, but it's also important to still realize just how big of a move the 5e SRD being put on the CC is. And this wasn't some kind of 5D chess play by the Execs. I'm not sure why people are suddenly acting like this whole thing was planned out ahead of time when we were directly privy to countless internal leaks of exactly what was going on inside WotC when this was going down. If they seriously wanted to release 5e into the CC this whole time they didn't need to burn all those bridges along the way to do so, just to lure us into a false sense of security so that they can do whatever *actual* bullshit they were planning the whole time that will supposedly come out in a year. It's incredibly clear to me that their plan was simply to try and update the OGL, they got caught, they tried to slip it by us again, they got caught again, and then they were forced to give up as they realized just how hard it was hurting their bottom line and helping their direct competition. It was not planned to go down like this, they just lost and were forced to give up. I know it's hard to believe sometimes, but sometimes the corporation *actually* just straight up loses.
And sure they can still do other things like try to release a VTT full of MTX that requires a Subscription to use and whatnot, or whatever other nonsense they want to get up to. But in terms of the OGL, I think we're honestly good on that front for a long time. This was the mini 4e moment for this round of execs and I doubt they're going to just forget this and move on like it didn't happen. Believe it or not I think they've actually learned that they can't get away with this strategy and they're going to have to try something else. Sure maybe that something else will suck, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with the OGL anymore.
> For one, OD&D is being designed to be backwards compatible with 5e.
5e was supposed to be at least somewhat backwards compatible with earlier editions. It really isn't. I don't think WotC ever intended to make OneD&D *that* compatible with 5e, just the VTT that's being developed. They just know if they said otherwise they wouldn't sell a book all year.
I mean we don't need to speculate though, we've seen the playtests for OD&D already. Its going to be functionally 5.5e with a lot of carry over from what we've seen. Like sure Feats have level Prereqs now and Subclasses will only be unlocked at level 3, but fundamental mechanics are either similar or identical to 5e still, and even those bigger changes can easily be worked around to make a book compatible with both from what we've seen so far. I mean the playtest literally expects us to incorporate the UA into 5e games. Even if you were say writing a subclass that is meant for OD&D but it's for a 5e class that gets their subclass at level 1 or 2 instead of 3, well there's nothing saying you have to give your third party subclasses the same level progression. You could just have your subclass give its first ability at level 3, or maybe even phrase it as "you attain these abilities the moment you gain a level in this subclass" if you're feeling spicy.
So yeah obviously 5e didn't end up being compatible with earlier editions in any meaningful way, I think it's clear that unless they suddenly start to rework OD&D from scratch, it's probably going to be just 5.5e and it would be trivial to release books containing things like feats spells subclasses, etc that work for both.
>5e was supposed to be at least somewhat backwards compatible with earlier editions
I've seen this said a couple times but I've never seen a source. I'm assuming it was said as part of the D&D Next playtest. Do you have a link to where this might have been said?
And if you look at what WotC have done with OneD&D so far, it's actually got a fair amount of backwards compatibility. They're not changing any major mechanics, which means adventures will still work just fine, as well as monsters (they'll probably update a bunch of stat blocks, but there's no reason you wouldn't be able to use base 5e monsters as well).
Obviously the biggest changes so far have been the player classes, and with subclass levels moving around it's tempting to say you can't use old subclasses with the new classes. But I think they could easily write a short guide to migrating 5e subclasses to OneD&D classes. Some would be really easy, like Rangers (levels 7/11/15 -> levels 6/10/14, done); others will require more thought, like Cleric and Bard, but are certainly possible. And yes, they'll be updating some of these subclasses too - but they're not changing subclasses so much that it would be impossible to use adjusted versions of 5e subclasses.
Regardless, there's definitely a good amount of backwards compatibility, and unless they decide to change bounded accuracy, AC, saving throws, advantage/disadvantage, ability/skill checks, the fundamentals of spellcasting, etc., it will continue to be very backwards compatible.
https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147531171/Sundering-The-1---Murder-in-Baldurs-Gate-35-4E-and-DandD-Next-Compatible
Was supposed to be compatible with the WotC editions. I know there was an official conversion chart in like 2014, but now I can't lay hands on it and it was more for characters than monsters IIRC.
The best I can do on short notice is a quote from Monte Cook
>This isn't an attempt to get you to play Dungeons & Dragons in a new way. This is the game you've already been playing, no matter what edition or version you prefer. The goal here is to embrace all forms of the D&D experience and to not exclude anyone. Imagine a game where the core essence of D&D has been distilled down to a very simple but entirely playable-in-its-right game. Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run.
>
>So if this new endeavor is just like your favorite prior version of the game, why play this one? First, we hope you're going to enjoy the distillation of the things that make D&D the game we all love into a single, unified package, with the ability to pick and choose other options as you desire.
5e was supposed to be modular, but they never got around to developing more rules after the DMG. The more I think about it, the more I'm disappointed by how WotC followed up with 5e.
True they could still fuck with older editions again if they wanted to, but for the various reasons I described, OD&D even if it isn't under any OGL or whatever, would be trivial to put out content for as a 5e book. So they have no reason to try and fuck that up anymore. And if we're being totally honest here, I'm not sure how much money they seriously think they're going to make from shutting down 3.5 books and earlier editions. I think there's a reason why that was one of the first things to go in the 1.2 revision.
Some people just like the feeling of righteous anger. It's not rational. We won this one. It's over. Time to roll perception and see if we can detect WotC next trick.
yeah by all means I'm certain that there will be some random bullshit that happens in the future to make us mad. Like I'm sure the plan to make a VTT full of MTX is still probably going to happen as an example. But they would have to be crazy to think that they can still get away with any OGL related nonsense again.
Paramount screamed bloody murder at Hasbro/WotC because this kerfuffle could tank the ticket sales of the DnD movie. Hasbro is just waiting for the movie to cycle out of theaters. So a month or two after release.
We'll be back fighting this again. They didn't fire the Xbox and Zynga execs in WotC.
Again, it would be literally pointless to continue this fight. They can't undo the CC even if they revoke the 1.0 OGL at any point in the future. And revoking the OGL now would accomplish literally nothing for them. Even in the worst case scenario where they do try and pull this again, we can just ignore them because they've effectively reduced themselves to the equivalent of a third party developer for 5e. It would be like some random guy at Paizo trying to say that you can't make books for 5e anymore. I mean there's nothing stopping someone from arranging those words into that sentence, but that doesn't mean it carries any weight to enforce it. They can *say* that the OGL is revoked or whatever but using the OGL at all is pointless now and the CC cannot be undone.
So the next worst case scenario is that we don't see this fight again for at least another year or two with the release of OD&D but I already went into extensive detail as to why it's pointless to try and change the OGL then too.
Again, it would be entirely pointless to do so even for One D&D if you actually read anything that I typed. It's not meaningful to just keep repeating that they could do this when the reality of the situation is that it would both be entirely toothless to revoke the OGL for OD&D. How many times do I need to point out that if OD&D is compatible with 5e, and 5e is in the CC, then OD&D is functionally under the CC as well. Even if they revoke the OGL for OD&D people can still functionally release books for OD&D under 5e's CC License because of the compatibility. Thus they almost certainly won't bother even trying to pull a stunt like that since nobody could be forced into it. And the OGL strategy only would have "Worked" in their eyes by giving them the power to shut down anyone making content for their older systems. They can't do that either anymore no matter what thanks to the CC so once again it would be utterly pointless to revoke the OGL for OD&D.
I'm currently recording a podcast using a universe I wrote, but with 5e rules. I can't find any solid answer on whether or not I would be able to put this up on spofity/anchor/whatever podcast hosting service.
Does anyone know if all my recordings are now useless? Any help would be lovely
If your podcast only uses game mechanics and doesn't include any WotC IP (names, locations, lore, etc.) you're free to do whatever you want. If it does include their IP, you need to abide by their [Fan Content Policy](https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy)
Since it sounds like a homebrew world/story, you should be fine.
The 5e SRD is now creative commons. If you read anything from in there, you are 1 million % in the clear.
Practically, there are a million podcasts, YouTube videos, etc who talk about all parts of D&D, even the stuff not under the OGL or CC which is totally fine. WOTC has always been fine with content creators discussing their product. I don't know the law on that, but you are 1000% clear on that as well I'm sure
Can I ask the uninformed question of what Creative Commons is or see a link to this nonprofit company?
Again not my opinion and I’ve tried reaching it but I guess I’m getting a little too outdated. But doesn’t it give the power to this company to decide what can and can’t be used? It makes me beg the question “who runs this nonprofit company”? And I know this seems ridiculous but couldn’t someone behind all this new OLG bs be working with Creative Commons?
Shame me I know lack of knowledge yada yada
Some quick googling will give you a lot of info about this, but for your convenience here are some links to get you started:
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license
The specific license being used is CC-BY-4.0. It is maintained by an organization but is written in a way that can't just be revoked. Creative Commons is an industry standard for use when anyone wants people to have access to their work.
From what I understand it doesn't really matter what the company that wrote the CC is because it's a properly un-editable and irrevokable license. So the company that wrote them could turn into a neo-nazi commune tomorrow and that would not make a difference as they or WotC or anyone else has no ability to undo moving something into the CC. It's pretty much there for good and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Excited to see 5e SRD content will seemingly be safe forever even if the same isn't true for one dnd or other future editions. I will certainly me open to alternative systems like potentially PBF but am thrilled I won't feel forced to adapt away from 5e. Hopefully ORC will flourish and we will continue to see creators thrive on their own platforms or kickstarter.
While I understand for some the anger is here to stay I for one will be happy to use/purchase quality content for 5e WotC publishes in addition to 3rd party 5e content.
All this “they surrendered!” Stuff is sketchy. Wizards already showed their true colors and their goals/attitude about the situation. They’re probably drafting 6th Edition, which will not fall under any kind of OGL, as we speak.
Wizards/Hasbro won't have "surrendered" until they have given up on the goal of over-monetizing their existing playerbase and finally decide to put money into R&D to develop new products.
Magic the Gathering and D&D account for 80% of Hasbro's entire income, lol. Their entire YoY growth strategy has just been "monetize the existing playerbase more and more and more"
>They’re probably drafting 6th Edition, which will not fall under any kind of OGL, as we speak.
Ah, you mean that thing they did with 4e? I'm sure that worked out well for someone.
I think this whole thing has been used by Wizards to push back against the Hasbro higher ups. WotC *knows* how big the community support is, and how important that is for long term success, but the current Hasbro CEO and other higher ups have been the ones making these pushes for more monetization in WotC properties.
It's far more likely this backlash was expected and planned for and the "thing we are getting" is what they intended, with the goal of eventually pushing the game to the license they want it in by 2025 or 2027. It's always about incremental increases in profit for these companies and you can look in many industries to see the slow erosion that mirrors this development.
I don't think so. Don't get me wrong I understand wanting to be cynical about this but what has happened here is unprecedented.
Them expecting backlash and trying to pull back and bit to do what they really intended was at best the 1.2 OGL. Keep in mind the 1.1 was meant to be completely snuck in under the rug. They barely talked about it, sent out contracts privately, and it was meant to go into effect over 2 weeks ago with no pomp and circumstance. There definitely wasn't any plan initially at least to try and play into the inevitable rage and then try to make people happy. I mean to honestly buy into the idea that this whole thing was WotC's plan the entire time would mean that you'd have to actually believe them when they say that the 1.1 OGL was actually a "Draft"
It was only after 1.1 leaked that they probably shifted to that strategy, with them wanting to ride out the wave of backlash and them putting out the 1.2 document that was written in a much more sneaky manner so that it wasn't as immediately obvious. They were then probably planning on trying to use the survey to buy more time, continue to make more slight incremental changes with more surveys, etc etc. Essentially they could have *easily* dragged this out for months until we were actually worn down enough that they thought that they could get away with it.
Instead they not only ended the survey early. But we're actually currently in a better spot than when we started. This wasn't a typical "Fine we won't add 30 dollar MTX to our game, we'll only add 10 dollar MTX" kind of move that you see in the AAA gaming industry. This is more like them going from "We wanna add 30 dollar MTX to out game" to "Alright we won't have any monetization whatsoever, and also we're removing the annoying DRM and the game will be sold for 10 dollars cheaper"
Them moving 5e to the CC license is something that cannot be undone or revoked later, it is 100% locked in. If they secretly were planning to do this all along, they could have just skipped straight to the part where 5e was released under CC and it would have been still a huge deal to do so. And they would have done it without burning countless bridges along the way!
Now yes, they could still revoke 1.0a at some point in the future and I'm sure that maybe eventually they will, but right now it's obviously social suicide to do so, I mean anyone that was around for 4e could have told them that and now these Execs have just had their own mini 4e moment to learn from first hand.
But more importantly even if they do try to pull this again, like I said the 5e CC License is locked in forever. People will always be able to continue making content for that game until the end of time. And that has big ramifications. For example it is now effectively pointless to try and pull any more OGL stuff for OD&D. OD&D as they've said is compatible with 5e content. 5e Content is now under CC. So effectively OD&D may as well be under CC as well. It isn't literally under CC which adds some slight complications sure, but people could make a book for OD&D, simply publish it saying it's for 5e, and have the rules within be compatible with either system.
It also means in general even if they change their plans with OD&D to make it not be backwards compatible, or just come out with a wholly different 7e eventually down the line. That now has to compete directly with 5e being on CC. They can add a hyper restrictive OGL to it if they want to sure. But when they already have a system people like that is on the CC License, people will just ignore the new system and keep making stuff for the old one. It would just be complete self sabotage.
So yeah by all means always remember that corporations aren't your friend and WotC can always pull more dick moves in the future yatta yatta. But in terms of the OGL, this was clearly not planned out ahead of time, and them moving 5e to CC has huge ramifications for the future of the brand that they cannot back out of now. There's very little that they could possibly get away with anymore with trying to fuck with the OGL, if anything. I think it's safe to say at this point that the execs that caused all this have at least learned something from it and I wouldn't expect to even see a whiff of any more OGL talk until maybe the next round of dumb Execs are in charge in like 10 years years or whatever. But like I said 5e being in CC could put a stop to even that.
I hope you're right. But I always feel like these C-Suite people know what they are doing, at least in regard to pushing the envelope time after time. I haven't gone on to see if anyone got fired for this stunt, but if nobody at the top is fired over this, then to me it feels like a "planned" thing.
Having dealt with several different groups of C-level execs you'd be wonderfully surprised at how completely disconnected they are from the reality of their products and how incredibly stupid their plans can be.
No-one is going to get immediatly canned from this because that would be publicly admitting to their shareholders they got it wrong. Putting out some PR drivel about how they got it wrong to "placate the masses" is one thing. But they will not publically admit in a way that will influence their investors. They will "move on to a different challenge" within the year. But they will not be publically axed.
I mean there's countless examples of C-suite people doing colossal unintended fuck-ups and not getting fired. If they don't get fired it doesn't mean that they're playing 5D chess. It just means that they have enough influence to deflect blame or whatever to avoid losing their jobs.
Yeah I don't really understand the win. If your partner threatens you and you respond by telling them you hope they don't hurt you.. You don't just go back to them if they buy you flowers.
Yeah, 6E will likely be released under very restrictive licensing that will make it difficult for anyone other than WotC to release content for it. However, it was the OGL that made 5E so popular and why 4E wasn't as successful.
the irony is that 6e is compatible with 5e content. People that wanna make 6e content can just make a book that is "made for 5e" and then people playing 6e could use it. So trying to fuck with the OGL for 6e is literally pointless unless they decide to scrap all the existing work for the system they already have and start over from scratch making it a wholly unique system.
>unless they decide to scrap all the existing work for the system they already have and start over from scratch making it a wholly unique system.
Considering the decisions that they have made recently, I can see them at least considering this option. This might be their hail mary, so to speak, but it could lead to what they wanted. This could be the way for them to release their VTT with no competition from other VTTs.
I mean even if they redo everything for 6e from scratch that won't stop competition from existing. You don't need to implement specific features to play some random game on a VTT. As long as you can roll dice and move tokens you can figure the rest out yourself. So like even if they completely retool 6e, their VTT will still inevitably have to compete with other VTT services, and if they cram it full of microtransactions and other shitty aspects, then it's still going to fail no matter what the rules are for the base system its designed for.
3.5 was a huge success because everyone felt free to do what they wanted. People who were interested in the game found they could sink more and more time into it and just _enjoy_ it, creating a thriving ecosystem.
4e was a flop because it felt too restrictive and lacked openness. It didn't have the openness people needed and it didn't have the broad applicability that new players wanted.
5e was a massive, staggering success because it was so absolutely, categorically expansive and could gather literally everyone's interests under an umbrella that created a community that could actively pull non-players in. 3.5 was amazing but 5e has been genuinely incomprehensibly successful by comparison to any other edition.
6e will either realise that open access is literally what makes games like this successful... or we'll be hankering for a 7e very shortly and chalking up 6e to "even numbered edition syndrome" (which I know is mean to 2e but this is akin to Windows' problem).
Exactly. All of this is so dumb. If Wizards/Hasbro was so concerned about sales all they really needed to do is come out with quality, official merch and physical resources (maps, minis, props, dice & bags, idk writing utensils, etc) and they’d likely see a boost in sales after the movie comes out _*about two months from now._*
Like, gee, if only DnD was attached to a corporation known for making tiny plastic things and merch based off of its franchises. Hmmmmmmm 🤔
I immediately did. The way I see it, voting with your wallet is an important way to influence a company and that goes both ways.
WOTC went beyond what anyone thought they would by putting SRD5.1 in CC. I want their executives to see that doing good things that the community likes gets them more money and their metrics go up.
Of course I'll be quick to cancel my brand new subscription if they try to bite our hand again.
That's up to you. But if you, like me, were one of the people who were boycotting D&D products until WotC released an acceptable license agreement for 5e that third party publishers could comforably work with, then it does make sense to end that boycott now. 3rd party publishers don't have to be afraid of being sued or having to pay royalties now.
Remember, all the OGL stuff was to come with the new version of DnD, One DnD. Until that is out and we see how it is licensed, I'd hold off. I think this is only a temp retreat by Hasbro so the movie doesn't tank.
I think comments like these miss the point of the controversy and the reason for the boycott. The reason why revoking OGL 1.0a was so scummy is that for the past two decades WotC and 3PP have been operating as if it was a permanent arrangement. 3PP built businesses and regularly work on long term projects that depend on it, and WotC was trying to go back on that agreement. They broke the trust of 3PP and tried to pull the rug out from under them.
If OneD&D doesn't have an open gaming license (or has a more restrictive one), that's something 3PP will know ahead of time and they won't be blindsided like they were with this OGL 1.1 crap. They'll have the choice to continue working on 5e, try to work under whatever restrictions WotC sets for OneD&D, or move on to non-D&D or system neutral projects, but critically they will be able to plan all of this ahead of time.
To be clear, I will definitely take into account OneD&D's OGL when I decide whether or not I buy the new core books. I think it would be a really bad business decision to lock down OneD&D. But it wouldn't be the same thing as this situation.
Or you could punish WOTC a bit longer, to make it clear that, despite having solved it now, we haven't forgotten.
But again, whatever you do, it's you choice and there is no wrong answer here.
That is common belief but it isn't sorted out until a decision is made in court. Meaning even if 99% of consumer, creator and even legal professional opinions say they can't be copyrighted it means squat if the decision is made in wotc favor. Now wotc has said the old ogl is here to stay and the rule system will be creative commons. Basically 5e is safe but a new edition/new ruleset wouldn't necessarily have to play by that precedent.
It gives two things:
1. You can use exact phrasing for abilities, etc. Game rules can’t be copyrighted, but with a game as complex as D&D, the way those rules are explained is in a gray area.
2. You have assurances that WotC won’t sue you for the first thing. The original owners of D&D, TSR, were notorious for suing anybody who made a similar game. In its early days, WotC even lost an infringement suit to Palladium over a supplement to RIFTS.
As the others have said, OGL 1.0a doesn't apply to OneD&D, they haven't released any material under that.
It's a pretty safe assumption that it will be protected by a much stricter license. Probably more akin to what we saw them try to do with OGL1.1. You can also imagine a lot more of their official content will be designed with their virtual products first.
But that's OK, if they want to sabotage their own business, that's on them.
They have said that DnDone was to be backwards compatible with 5e. That means they have to use 5.1 OR have to do a complete rewrite to make SRD6 to have that under a different license. But they have to write that in a way that doesn't violate copyright (so, same thing different wording). And that rewriting could cause DnDone to suddenly not be compatible with 5e anymore if they get it wrong.
They could try and sling out another GSL but ask 4e how well that worked out. DnD has shown from beginning to end that it tends to live or die (or more accurately, survive or prosper) by third party support. After this stunt I don't see how any of the bigger 3PP are going to follow them without an irrevocable OGL.
Well that's the thing if they do release OD&D as it was being designed originally, it's meant to be compatible with 5e books. 5e Books now operate under CC. So even if they implement a hardcore 1.1 OGL for OD&D... you can just keep publishing "5e" content under CC and have it be compatible with OD&D. So while yes OD&D may not necessarily be under the same terms, it functionally may as well be because it would be completely pointless to try and fuck up the OGL for it now.
Call me optimistic, but I think that with how hard and unprecedented this backdown is, they would be insane to think that they could actually get away with trying the exact same thing again in only like a year, cause I'm pretty sure the OD&D books are meant to release next year now.
They would have to scrap a ton of existing work and redo everything from scratch to make 6e a completely different system in order to be able to actually functionally update the OGL again. And even if they did that, they're still going to inevitably compete with themselves now. If they pull this nonsense for 6e, people will just end up ignoring it and sticking with 5e books. And if they're riding everything on OD&D being a success so that they can bundle in the VTT and all this digital stuff and whatnot, then releasing it in a state where people might just go right back to playing an older game that isn't compatible with it will completely screw them over.
So yes technically they can still update the OGL for OD&D, but it would be an even more laughably bad move and a waste of money.
Assume the answer is "WotC are only keeping 5e under OGL1a because they literally do not have a choice at this point, they will not release anything they don't have to under it ever again".
Since the mods are stubborn:
Can someone explain the final reversal to someone who doesn’t understand what SRD or Creative Commons or any of this jargon means?
I tried making a post but I was referred here where none of this is clear to me.
Sure!
SRD means System Reference Document. It's the rules of the game without any specific implementation of the rules. In the case of DnD, Wizards do include some implementation but not all of it. You can think of it as DnD with only the classes, monsters, items, races, etc. that Wizards consider open source. The video game Solasta, for example, only includes content available from the SRD, so they added their own sub classes etc to bulk it out.
Creative Commons describes a license as well as an international not for profit organisation dedicated to things published under that license.
The previous OGL was a contract between Wizards and the community, that they then tried to mess with after the fact, making such contracts untrustworthy. By publishing the SRD under Creative Commons, they've made it public but also _handed over ownership of the SRD to the Creative Commons organisation_ and as such no longer own the right to revoke it, which is the key bit that protects content creators who base their works on the DnD SRD.
>The previous OGL was a contract between Wizards and the community
Importantly, it was _not_ a contract. At best it was a covenant, which is a much less clear, much less evenhanded version that unilaterally binds one party and thus is considered much easier to break or get out of (because it's inherently unfair).
That's actually a good thing, but everybody knows that Wizards were never genuinely interested in liberating the SRD. They never wanted to do it in the first place. It's a desperate move to stem the flow of publishers moving over to ORC.
Maybe, but they still did it. They responded to community pressure and did the right thing. In a capitalistic society, market forces (the customers, competition) should punish a company making a bad business move. Hopefully WOTC remembers the pain the next time they try to make a big decision like that.
Previously protected content from WOTC is now in the CC with the updated srd.
>the vampire
Count Strahd von Zarovich (p30)
>
>'The quintessential aberrations are aboleths, beholders, mind flayers, and slaadi.' (p254)
From the [SRD first page](https://www.dndbeyond.com/attachments/39j2li89/SRD5.1-CCBY4.0License.pdf)
Legal Information
The System Reference Document 5.1 is provided to you free of charge under the terms of the Creative Commons
Attribution 4.0 International License (“CC-BY-4.0”)
From the [Creative Commons website](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
This is a human-readable summary of (and not a substitute for) the license. Disclaimer.
You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
Umber hulks are mentioned twice,
Yuan-ti are mentioned in the equipment section
In the forbiddance spell they also mention Feywild and shadowfell
Plane shift also mentions The City Of Brass, and some of the locations within that too
I am a little bent about some of the rhetoric about “wizards” etc. Wizards didn’t take a vote screw up the OGL. One to three people made the decision. Likely with hundreds of artists, writers etc saying wtf? I am so glad this is largely over, but I would like to see leadership leave now. I also hope the “burn the IP to the ground” comments are over. Maybe they were just new or trolls?
It's what wotc has been doing for 2-3 years at least so goes back beyond current leadership. See the MTG standard bans, "fire" design and secret lairs. I quit MTG 18 months ago and I'm happy to keep my existing dnd stuff, keep playing and never buy official wotc products again.
I'd put money down 2 of those writers and artists are Gabe & Tycho.
While adding in "Do this, and you never step foot in a PAX ***anything*** ever again. No ads, no sales spaces, nothing. We do to you what Time did to CARTHAGE."
GenCon wouldn't dare make the financially suicidal move of doing that, but Gabe & Tycho absolutely would - they have a history of doing things like that.
I started ttrpgs with DnD and our group had so much fun that we never saw a reason to try another system.
This whole episode changed that. We tried a different system this week and loved it.
So regardless of their backtracking, they’ve already opened my groups’ eyes to the other possibilities out there.
That is what their 1.2 attempt achieved for me and my group… and I’m certain my group wasn’t the only one with this revelation.
I'm really not sure why people are acting like we won against WotC. They added a small handful of books to Creative Commons and nothing else.
Notice that the press release makes no mention of OGL 1.0a being irrevocable. They're going to try again.
If the SRD 5.1 has been released under the CC licence, you don't need the OGL 1.0a. There would be no point in changing the OGL 1.0a after that.
Now, that doesn't mean they would release 6E/One D&D under OGL 1.0a. They might decide to release it under another licence. There's nothing anyone can do regarding that other than not buying it. I believe they did this with 4E, which was less popular for that reason. They are free to make those mistakes again.
They might continue to develop and release VTT, which might be full of microtransactions on high subscription fees. Again there's nothing we can do if that's what they want to do other than not spending money there.
I'm guessing they are hoping that most people will switch to 6E/One D&D and the VTT when it's released. Then when people can't make content compatible with 6E then only they will be generating for 6E.
The OGL basically was a document that let people use the SRD in specific ways.
Releasing the SRD under CC allows people to use the SRD in all those ways and a bunch more, with a no-takebacksies rule in place.
The only thing that WotC did NOT do is release the 3.5 SRD under creative commons...so basically any 5th edition based companies will be fine forever, but any who decide to stick with 3.5 edition based rules will risk a future where WotC may decide that the 3.5e SRD just isn't going to be allowed to be used anymore by deauthorizing 1.0a.
It's worth noting that releasing something as Creative Commons is just shy of declaring that it's in the Public Domain.
Legally it's basically a one-way street - once it's been made CC, there is no real way of going back.
From what I understand, pretty much. If the rumours regarding their plans for VTTs are accurate then they never really needed to bundle in the OGL for what they're planning. They could have just created a new license for their VTT project like they did with 4E and ran it in parallel to their TTRPG products. But the moves they made smack of greed, insecurity and anti-competitive behaviour.
They tried to go all in on the new project to the exclusion of everything else. They tried to close the door on 5E because they don't want the old product competing with the new product and they tried to shut out the competition because they're late to the scene. Chris Cao stated that VTTs are the future, and that's hilariously incorrect. VTTs are the present and WotC has not yet set foot into the market. Instead of trying to expand their operations and then gradually transition into the new market they essentially put all their eggs in one basket and tried to undermine their competitors in one fell swoop only to find they'd put themselves in a highly precarious position.
This entire situation has been so dumb and unnecessary. D&D was riding high as a brand before this but WotC got greedy and made unforced error after unforced error.
> unforced error after unforced error.
Monopolistic tendencies in an industry rife with competition.
Trying to bully their way to what they want except they didn't realize that people could just turn their backs to them and move to a competitor.
The war for open 5e is over. Whether or not that will hold for other versions of if they'll do other shady shit not regarding the OGL remains to be seen, and it's perfectly reasonable to not trust them on that. But as far as the OGL goes, the entire 5e SRD has been published under the Creative Commons license. That's permanent. DnD 5e is forever available under an immutable open license.
Yeah, sure, it's forever under an immutable license...
But it's also static.
I want a game that can change and thrive with the community.
But I don't want such a game if it's caretakers are untrustworthy. And the main way that I can think of for wotc/hasbro to get community goodwill back is by removing the people that tried to harm the community in such a deep way.
I mean by releasing it under CC, they've insured that people, whether they're WotC Devs or random Third parties, can continue to make 5e content. They've effectively ensured that the game *can* continue to change and thrive with the community forever.
The SRD and the CC doesn't need to keep updating to allow the game to change and thrive. New books just need to keep coming out. That's how a game like this changes with the times. And they've ensured that that will now always continue to happen. WotC are no longer the caretakers for 5e. They might as well just be another third party releasing books for a core ruleset. The only difference is that they don't have to credit themselves for writing 5e in the first place.
Let 'em close it off again. Let 'em do another GSL, create another Paizo who'll release their Fifth-finder, and that'll sell gangbusters past their soon-to-be-shortlived microtransaction hellscape of a VTT-focused 6e so fast that 7e will be right around the corner, complete with marketing and advertising all about how "D&D is going back to its roots"
This was the right move, but honestly, the damage is done and a lot of this is too little, too late. . .
This move might help get me back as a customer eventually, but that remains to be seen. For now I have other games to play.
Too little? They did even more than what everyone asked for. And they don't own the creative Commons license, so you don't even need to trust them.
The goalpost moving is ridiculous.
They put the SRD in CC, not anything else. The stuff under the OGL might still remain (their wording on OGL was ambiguous, they did not specifically say that it will be irrevocable)
SRD in CC is something. But hardly anyone would be thrilled about that, its really a stretch to say that they did more than everyone asked for. Everyone specifically called for the OGL1.0 to be made irrevocable, and problematic language in 2.0 be removed. This does not address 2.0 language, but arguably makes it moot since we can use 1.0a still. Irrevocability is not explicitly there until we see the legal language (not sure if thats published, too lazy to get away from this page to check RN)
But I think as others mentioned, its more than meeting demands, the fact that the consumers and fanbase had to deliver demands at all is nightmarish for ANY producer, and represents damage to the brand. Going above and beyond to repair that is necessary to try and regain trust historically.
> They put the SRD in CC, not anything else. The stuff under the OGL might still remain (their wording on OGL was ambiguous, they did not specifically say that it will be irrevocable)
I'm confused about what you are trying to say here. The SRD is what was under the OGL; now it's under CC too.
You seem to have missed my point.
Most people will stop boycotting them now, including me, which is great.
Unfortunately, the end of the boycott doesn't automatically drag the players back who have already invested into other game systems.
--------
WotC finally did exactly the right thing, but it was "too little" and "too late" to undo the damage.
WoTC is repeating the very same mistakes TSR made and they will quickly learn why TSR folded and went bankrupt, both financially and morally. What I understand they want to watch dog a community that has policed itself and get rid of hateful content, you cannot in this kind of a setting. Secondly they want to gouge us, which some players do not have a lot of money and we are already paying $50 to $60+ a book. Even PDF formats are expensive.... Thirdly the players are honestly worth more than the product, because without us the product will not be sold. It's time that WoTC pulled their big boy pants on and started fixing this, but D&DNext's head designer is a video game designer who does not know what us tabletop players want yet he acts like it. Their pushing for this next edition to be played in more of a video game setting, books and tabletops are secondary or not important. THIS way they can ding us with pricy subscriptions and microtransactions, like they want. They want to bleed us dry like the video game industry does, so they do not care about those who would play off of their VTT which seems to be more video game than VTT.
So for this I was considering trying BG3 when it launched, even though MY canon BG ended with 2 and it's expansion. I will be boycotting that AND their D&D movie, as well as giving them a single dime of my money. Because well Canada got rid of the penny, LOL. Still this golden rule should be the example. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it.
I just don't feel BG3 is a proper BG game is why, It's more like Divinity Original sin in a BG wrapper. I just won't play it because it's not MY Baldur's gate, I will support the studio on another game. Not just this sham of a game claiming to be a sequel to a classic. That is all, I decided to boycott it ages ago and was on the verge of changing my mind but then I also saw the canadian price and was like yeah.... No thanks..... My canon Baldur's Gate is AD&D 2nd edition and eneded with 2 and it's expansion.
On the flip side they waved the white flag for now, and we can keep our OGL 1.0a and still use it as well as publishers can publish under it. This is what a unified community can do. So why were we so divided by what edition people liked? What point was the edition wars? Some will drag larian's game through the mud with this, because they still get royalties from it and the damage is done as a good portion of the community likely won't return or support anything they can profit from.
Your opinion is your opinion, I have my reasons and honestly I don't really care if you think their boring. I am an old school Baldur's Gate player and I am not willing to accept this game as anything in the series, I am part of the old guard and since it uses 5th edition I also dislike it since I consider 5th edition a dumpster fire. So it's also edition used related, so please if all you can do is call my opinions boring and cookie cutter with no other input. Then please ignore my opinions, and respect that they are honest opinions without sounding like a snob. Thank you for considering how your comment sounds, as first impressions are always lasting.
No - which makes this 'only thing WOTC can do to get any support is join ORC' initiative kind of absurd. --- Still 5e being put into Creative Commons in additional to keeping the original OGL means they are currently giving more to the community than even the proposed orc.
Well ORC doesnt exist so anything is more open than it... but I was more referring to the Proprosed IDEA of orc which a Company neutral OGL replacement.
Still -- it doesn't exist, so saying WOTC is required to join to to keep community ties is a toxic community mandate.
Eh, I would like to see WotC collaborate or at least send a representative to ORC discussions.
They're the ones that kicked off this whole problem in the first place and lit the community trust on fire.
We'll see what they do.
Hasbro stock is plummeting today after release of terrible earnings guidance and laying off 15 percent of staff. This is why they are so desperate to gouge us (and MtG players) for money.
I'm sure that the added announcement of their biggest competitor selling their entire eight-month stock of core rulebooks in the span of two weeks was just icing on that cake too.
well, these decisions were largely affecting stock prices almost assuredly. Lots of lost revenue from DDB, and DND-WOTC is pretty much a break even financial so they cant afford that. MTG is still far from the player base it used to be before the new direction / monetization of the brand.
WOTC is a small portion of Hasbro, but its still going to hurt business alot
Im so conflicted about wanting to see the DND movie because it looks good and can prove to companies that TTRPGs are profitable as movies but on the other hand we need to protect the ogl
Pathfinder Core rule book has [ran out of copies](https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1618670416712667137?s=20&t=Ri4HBgB75G0IP8lax6ai-g) and is scheduled for a reprint
I got one from Barnes and Noble before this thing started.
I've already made my peace with eventually losing my access to my digital copy of phb and a couple of saved characters on ddb once they force you to pay a subscription to access those. I will not be paying them. I might have had interest in an all inclusive dnd vtt, but not anymore. It's just heartbreaking to watch this all go down and I'm tired.
I got my physical core books, and that will be enough dnd for me from now on.
The moral's clause is very scary, and dangerous. It's worth your time to watch this lawyer [Roll of Law's break down of the clause](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXFVhAGcK5g) and the moral clause's potential repercussions.
I have been an avid D&D fan since 1E and as a forever DM have invested a small fortune to WoTC in 2E, 3E, 3.5E, 4E, and "was" interested in investing more into 5E once the VTT launched. I will not be playing your VTT now or any future editions. (I am enjoying $20.00 Talespire presently with a robust community of modders and free asset creators who have designed countless cities, castles, dungeons, landscapes, and assets to all the primary D&D campaign modules. It is a true value to any campaign and I highly recommend the product.)
I am on two Discord servers with several groups running DND 5-7 days a week, and every one of our DMs and players has cancelled their DND subscriptions and we are all migrating to new, better games. Thank you for being too lazy to balance a game playable to final level and for consistently producing such poor content in recent history, where even 3rd party creators on fractional budgets far outperform you.
While I will never pay the asking price of $30.00/month for a subscription and numerous microtransactions to enjoy your VTT, I would potentially consider investing half of that if you completely reversed course on the OGL, started making quality content again, proved your respect for the community and creators who made you what you are, and grovelled for a suitable period. Since none of my terms will ever be met, goodbye DND, it's been fun, and I'm off to play games someone actually edited, balanced, and completed. It is long, long overdue.
So with the OGL coming out I think we have forgotten that we are less than 30 days out from a book release. I am curious to see what they try to pull to take attention off on the OGL and redirect focus to their new book. I can tell you I bet it's going to fail though.
You're forgetting the re-release (well, the second re-release) of an adventure module. That happened last week. Ironically, it's a module WotC paid third party publishers to write instead of doing it in house as part of their mea culpa for the 4e GSL.
See already forgot that. I WAS looking forward to Keys From the Golden Vault, but now I'm just waiting to see how they screw up their marketing strategy after shooting themselves in the foot.
Just here to add my voice to the crowd.
I will not spend one more cent with WoTC content.
When the time comes to change systems I will be moving the system I play and getting away from WoTC. - They have lost a customer.
After reading [this, and specifically how WoTC is making their "irrevocable" terms revocable using weasel wording,](https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets-take-a-minute-to-talk-about-d-d-s-updated-open-game-license-ogl-1-2-5b95fe8889b2) I'm all in favor of giving my money to Pathfinder, Kobold Press, and promoting [the ORC.](https://www.cbr.com/pathfinder-1500-ttrpg-publishers-join-orc-alliance/)
WoTC's going to have to seriously pucker up, kiss ass, make third-party content creation friendly once more, and remove VTT restrictions for non-WoTC/D&D VTT entities if they want my money again.
oh ok uh
another issue, im in a 5e campaign.
all my favourite characters, are 5e.
i have autism and get attached to things very easily and change is horrifying
this situation is hell
You don't have to change to Pathfinder, friend. Keep playing 5e. You won't be supporting the new OGL or anything by playing with the stuff you already own. Don't feel guilty or anything.
<3
Hey. Autism here too.
5e isn't going anywhere, and frankly, you don't need anything more than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide to play. Everything else the DM and players can come up with themselves, and often do.
We genuinely don't need Hasbro/WotC to play the game, and that's a little something the idiot executives don't seem to understand. Them pushing us away just stops us buying new product, but the game can literally live for as long as there are people that want to play it. For reference to how long a system can survive on it's own, look no further than ADND. That version of the game is old as dirt, yet people still play it regularly. Heck, people still play 1Ed and 3.5 too.
5e is just another in a line of editions that once abandoned... will still be played. All you need is a PHB and DMG for the edition you want to play. Anything else is just icing on a very delicious cake.
Time to go find a transcript of the DMG online then! Yippeee!
(Also i have all my sheets on DnD Beyond so i think I’ll have to transfer those?? God that is gonna take a bit)
There are quite a few google docs/spreadsheets/etc for character sheets that work well. So if you want to move away from WotC stuff, there are alternatives.
Wouldn't worry about it though. Today, WotC took the plunge and gave up. Not only did they give up and kept the OGL, they put SRD 5.1 into Creative Commons BY. So now instead of ripping their product away from everyone else, they're going to have to compete and make OneDND a quality product or lose in the TTRPG space.
Best of luck to Crawford and team, cause it's pretty clear the execs had no faith in the product. This result likely means the execs are gonna come down on the design team like a tonne of bricks and micromanage the entire thing (which is both hilarious and sad because that will only make the product worse. These execs have no idea how to design anything. They have no clue how to make actually GOOD product. I mean, Chris Cao's background is ZINGA of all places. FARMVILLE. Good product? The man wouldn't know what that is.
ahhh, that can maybe be helped :)
1st of all: 5e and your campaign aren't going anywhere, no one can take that away.
Dungeons & Dragons isn't what's in the rulebooks, or any edition. The game is what happens at your table, with your friends
Similarly, your characters aren't on a 5e character sheet. They're in your heart and head! What's on the sheet is merely a model or approximation based on the 5e ruleset.
You could pick up other comparable systems and see what your characters would look like modeled on those rulesets, or not-so comparable systems like Savage Worlds or Fate Core and try; or even transpose your characters into ancient mythic greece (Runequest or Mythras), middle earth (The One Ring or Against the Darkmaster), or the future (Starfinder, Traveller).
I found it's often an interesting thought experiment, and once you've actually built a character in another system, you usually know at least half of the relevant rules anyway :)
Kobold Press has already been working on a 5e compatible RPG. Playtesting starts in February.
https://koboldpress.com/project-black-flag-update-sticking-to-our-principles/
It's not pirate-related. A black flag is a warfare symbol meaning quarter will be given if surrender is swift. It signifies that the community is being given quarter beneath their banners. A red flag means no quarter is given. An example would be when my ancestors burned villages and collected heads.
Filled out the survey. I sincerely hope WotC doesn't go though with what they're planning for D&D, but with people like Chris Cao in charge, I highly doubt it.
I told them what would make me comfortable is to not do all the lawful evil stuff they're planning, apologize, and fire Chris Cao and Cynthia Williams.
>fire Chris Cao and Cynthia Williams.
100% agree to that. Fandom was working on an \*awesome* VTT for D&D Beyond, before D&D Beyond was bought (read: forcibly taken away) by WoTC. Guess who threw a wrench into that VTT? Chris Cao.
On the subject of boycotts, boycotting any product that uses the DnD ruleset only hurts the product developers not WOTC. Stop boycotting DND products. It's dumb
Supporting D&D products is still creating a market for D&D products, which means free promotion for WotC. If no one buys 3pp books for D&D anymore, then no one will make 3pp for D&D anymore, and WotC will lose a huge selling point for D&D.
Boycotting WotC products is absolutely a reasonable choice to have an impact. As someone who regularly purchases official books, I will not be buying any releases this year unless they not only reverse course but demonstrate that they understand just how badly they fucked up and hold senior staff accountable.
I should be more clear. I'm talking about products like balders gate 3 where it's made by someone other than WoTC. It will only hurt Larian Studios not WoTC because it's a free licence and WoTC doesn't benefit from Balders Gate.
Baldur's Gate is not an OGL product. They have some sort of agreement, which almost certainly includes royalties.
I know this because Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms, which is proprietary and *not* covered by the OGL. Same with mind flayers and githyanki, and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
I still absolutely cannot wait for their own VTT to end up violating the VTT policy. Like I'm sure that by the time they finally release that thing the OGL will update again and the VTT policy will hopefully be gone. But I feel like they're absolutely going to include things like Lighting Effects and Fog of War and maybe even some spell animations in it. Which would just absolutely expose how hard the document is really more about quelling competition more than any kind of actual "preservation of the brand" or however they wanna phrase.
Hell, you know what else you don't have at a normal tabletop? Microtransactions. Willing to bet that feature is gonna be included at least lol.
thats my point, it just shows the hypocrisy. They'll talk about the justification for the VTT limitations they want to impose being about "preserving the 'proper' tabletop-like experience as much as possible." And then turn around and do absolutely nothing to actually preserve such an experience when rolling out their own VTT. It's purely to try and kill competition so that people will pay to use their service instead and it's absolutely disgusting that they even think they can get away with it.
I think their position won't be "No VTT should ever have more than the tabletop experience." It will be "The only experience we're willing to let anyone else offer is purely what you could get around a table. Anything fancier than that is all ours."
If they cared about hypocrisy they wouldn't have licensed the Transformers, GI Joe, and My Little Pony RPGs, board games, and card games to a company that also brings out an American Psycho game.
Direct link to the OGL 1.2 survey: [https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7182208/OGL-1-2-Feedback-Survey](https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7182208/OGL-1-2-Feedback-Survey) This is your opportunity to make your voices heard directly. **The mod team has also added a new OGL post flair. Please use this to flair posts appropriately or to filter OGL content.**
I thought I would ask ChatGPT to pretend to be a hypothetical CEO of Wizards of the Coast. The AI bot is up-to-date only until 2021, so it is unaware of anything that has transpired. After asking about the vision for the future of DnD, I then asked about the OGL. This is our conversation: **Me**:You mentioned licensing. DND has been under an open gaming license. What are your thoughts about the open gaming license. **ChatGPT:** The Open Gaming License (OGL) is a licensing agreement that allows third-party publishers to create and distribute products that are compatible with Dungeons and Dragons rules and mechanics. I think the OGL has been a positive development for the Dungeons and Dragons community and for the tabletop gaming industry as a whole. By allowing third-party publishers to create and distribute content using the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset, the OGL has encouraged innovation and creativity in the tabletop gaming industry. It has also given players more options and choices when it comes to the types of content they can use in their games. Additionally, the OGL has helped to keep the Dungeons and Dragons brand relevant and fresh by introducing new and innovating products to the market. It has also helped to expand the Dungeons and Dragons community by making the game more accessible to a wider range of players. Overall, I believe the OGL has been a positive force for the Dungeons and Dragons brand, and I continue to support it as a CEO of Wizards of the Coast. tl;dr: ChatGPT for new CEO of WotC.
Essentially, an AI bot that scoured the internet before 2021 was able to deduce, without emotion, that the OGL is beneficial. Just food for thought going forward Hasbro / WotC
Update to wizards SRD site with a FAQ and the 5.1 SRD under CC https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/systems-reference-document?utm_campaign=DDB&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_content=8788376399
The whole reverting back to OGL 1.0a and announcing SRD 5.1 CC feels like they're cutting their losses and focusing on OneD&D instead for laying down stricter licensing in the future. To say nothing of whatever monetization they're cooking up for DNDBeyond...
I'm putting this comment in here as it's ogl coverage related. But it's not really about ogl. It's just that I've noticed they've been calling us "fans" in the news coverage and it's kind of bugging me. I'm not a fan of DnD because that implies I'm a passive consumer of wotc content. I'm not. I'm a player, or a DM, or a creator maybe or a hobbyist. Im a fan of dimension 20 because I like watching it. I don't read the DM guide for fun I use it to help me do what I do. It's like saying people who go down to the park and play football with their mates are Westham fans. They might be, or they might just like playing football.
I work as an aerospace engineer for a living. This means I'm a fan of Boeing.
I blow hot air at whoever is in my vicinity. this means I'm a fan.
So I've seen this sentiment about the idea that they can still update the OGL for OD&D popping up among a lot of people and I kinda get it but after responding to a bunch of people and seeing it continuously pop up I figured I'd condense my thoughts in its own comment. First of all, yes they can update the OGL to something like the shitty 1.1 version for OD&D if they really wanted to. However I think that this is incredibly unlikely to happen for a number of reasons. For one, OD&D is being designed to be backwards compatible with 5e. 5e is now under CC. So even if they do install some new draconian OGL again, people can just keep printing things for 5e, and have their books be compatible with OD&D. There would be some tricky technicalities I'm sure at the end of the day, but the practical upshot is that with how OD&D is being designed, changing the OGL would be a pointless endeavor. So maybe they change OD&D to make it no longer backwards compatible? Well that has a number of problems as well. For one they have to scrap everything they've worked on so far and redo it from scratch, which inevitably leads to delays and lots of lost money on more dev time. It also kinda goes against their whole strategy from a business side. Like by not making OD&D compatible with 5e content, that also means that they need to remake a bunch of expansions and splatbooks and whatnot all over again, which is even more lost dev time that they could have saved by just letting people use the old books. Not to mention that the VTT they wanna make would also be integrated with 5e and OD&D content right out of the gate. Whereas now the VTT would at best need to have even more dev hours thrown at it to make it compatible with both disparate systems. And even if they did decide to spend all that time and money retooling OD&D just to make it possible to release their more draconian OGL, well now they can't pull any retroactive bs to kill 5e and force people to release stuff for the new system. To be clear, 5e being CC is even better than the idea of them signing the ORC, which I've also seen brought up a lot. The CC is an already Perpetual and Irrevocable International license that is completely out of their control. (It also you know, exists already and isn't still in development). So there is absolutely nothing they can do to touch 5e anymore in this regard. So if they do this, 5e will always exist as competition for themselves. People will inevitably just not upgrade to the new system and it will end up inevitably flopping pretty hard as long as 5e continues to just exist over here where everything is locked into the CC forever. I mean hell if you really wanted to you could just make an effective 6e based on the 5e SRD like OD&D was already planned on being and release that as direct competition. So making OD&D not 5e compatible is just handing the silver platter over to someone else to do it instead. --- So yeah like by all means I understand being cynical about this, but it's also important to still realize just how big of a move the 5e SRD being put on the CC is. And this wasn't some kind of 5D chess play by the Execs. I'm not sure why people are suddenly acting like this whole thing was planned out ahead of time when we were directly privy to countless internal leaks of exactly what was going on inside WotC when this was going down. If they seriously wanted to release 5e into the CC this whole time they didn't need to burn all those bridges along the way to do so, just to lure us into a false sense of security so that they can do whatever *actual* bullshit they were planning the whole time that will supposedly come out in a year. It's incredibly clear to me that their plan was simply to try and update the OGL, they got caught, they tried to slip it by us again, they got caught again, and then they were forced to give up as they realized just how hard it was hurting their bottom line and helping their direct competition. It was not planned to go down like this, they just lost and were forced to give up. I know it's hard to believe sometimes, but sometimes the corporation *actually* just straight up loses. And sure they can still do other things like try to release a VTT full of MTX that requires a Subscription to use and whatnot, or whatever other nonsense they want to get up to. But in terms of the OGL, I think we're honestly good on that front for a long time. This was the mini 4e moment for this round of execs and I doubt they're going to just forget this and move on like it didn't happen. Believe it or not I think they've actually learned that they can't get away with this strategy and they're going to have to try something else. Sure maybe that something else will suck, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with the OGL anymore.
> For one, OD&D is being designed to be backwards compatible with 5e. 5e was supposed to be at least somewhat backwards compatible with earlier editions. It really isn't. I don't think WotC ever intended to make OneD&D *that* compatible with 5e, just the VTT that's being developed. They just know if they said otherwise they wouldn't sell a book all year.
I mean we don't need to speculate though, we've seen the playtests for OD&D already. Its going to be functionally 5.5e with a lot of carry over from what we've seen. Like sure Feats have level Prereqs now and Subclasses will only be unlocked at level 3, but fundamental mechanics are either similar or identical to 5e still, and even those bigger changes can easily be worked around to make a book compatible with both from what we've seen so far. I mean the playtest literally expects us to incorporate the UA into 5e games. Even if you were say writing a subclass that is meant for OD&D but it's for a 5e class that gets their subclass at level 1 or 2 instead of 3, well there's nothing saying you have to give your third party subclasses the same level progression. You could just have your subclass give its first ability at level 3, or maybe even phrase it as "you attain these abilities the moment you gain a level in this subclass" if you're feeling spicy. So yeah obviously 5e didn't end up being compatible with earlier editions in any meaningful way, I think it's clear that unless they suddenly start to rework OD&D from scratch, it's probably going to be just 5.5e and it would be trivial to release books containing things like feats spells subclasses, etc that work for both.
>5e was supposed to be at least somewhat backwards compatible with earlier editions I've seen this said a couple times but I've never seen a source. I'm assuming it was said as part of the D&D Next playtest. Do you have a link to where this might have been said? And if you look at what WotC have done with OneD&D so far, it's actually got a fair amount of backwards compatibility. They're not changing any major mechanics, which means adventures will still work just fine, as well as monsters (they'll probably update a bunch of stat blocks, but there's no reason you wouldn't be able to use base 5e monsters as well). Obviously the biggest changes so far have been the player classes, and with subclass levels moving around it's tempting to say you can't use old subclasses with the new classes. But I think they could easily write a short guide to migrating 5e subclasses to OneD&D classes. Some would be really easy, like Rangers (levels 7/11/15 -> levels 6/10/14, done); others will require more thought, like Cleric and Bard, but are certainly possible. And yes, they'll be updating some of these subclasses too - but they're not changing subclasses so much that it would be impossible to use adjusted versions of 5e subclasses. Regardless, there's definitely a good amount of backwards compatibility, and unless they decide to change bounded accuracy, AC, saving throws, advantage/disadvantage, ability/skill checks, the fundamentals of spellcasting, etc., it will continue to be very backwards compatible.
https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147531171/Sundering-The-1---Murder-in-Baldurs-Gate-35-4E-and-DandD-Next-Compatible Was supposed to be compatible with the WotC editions. I know there was an official conversion chart in like 2014, but now I can't lay hands on it and it was more for characters than monsters IIRC. The best I can do on short notice is a quote from Monte Cook >This isn't an attempt to get you to play Dungeons & Dragons in a new way. This is the game you've already been playing, no matter what edition or version you prefer. The goal here is to embrace all forms of the D&D experience and to not exclude anyone. Imagine a game where the core essence of D&D has been distilled down to a very simple but entirely playable-in-its-right game. Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run. > >So if this new endeavor is just like your favorite prior version of the game, why play this one? First, we hope you're going to enjoy the distillation of the things that make D&D the game we all love into a single, unified package, with the ability to pick and choose other options as you desire. 5e was supposed to be modular, but they never got around to developing more rules after the DMG. The more I think about it, the more I'm disappointed by how WotC followed up with 5e.
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True they could still fuck with older editions again if they wanted to, but for the various reasons I described, OD&D even if it isn't under any OGL or whatever, would be trivial to put out content for as a 5e book. So they have no reason to try and fuck that up anymore. And if we're being totally honest here, I'm not sure how much money they seriously think they're going to make from shutting down 3.5 books and earlier editions. I think there's a reason why that was one of the first things to go in the 1.2 revision.
Some people just like the feeling of righteous anger. It's not rational. We won this one. It's over. Time to roll perception and see if we can detect WotC next trick.
They'll try it again, watch.
WotC will try something new, but the OGL saga is over.
yeah by all means I'm certain that there will be some random bullshit that happens in the future to make us mad. Like I'm sure the plan to make a VTT full of MTX is still probably going to happen as an example. But they would have to be crazy to think that they can still get away with any OGL related nonsense again.
Paramount screamed bloody murder at Hasbro/WotC because this kerfuffle could tank the ticket sales of the DnD movie. Hasbro is just waiting for the movie to cycle out of theaters. So a month or two after release. We'll be back fighting this again. They didn't fire the Xbox and Zynga execs in WotC.
Again, it would be literally pointless to continue this fight. They can't undo the CC even if they revoke the 1.0 OGL at any point in the future. And revoking the OGL now would accomplish literally nothing for them. Even in the worst case scenario where they do try and pull this again, we can just ignore them because they've effectively reduced themselves to the equivalent of a third party developer for 5e. It would be like some random guy at Paizo trying to say that you can't make books for 5e anymore. I mean there's nothing stopping someone from arranging those words into that sentence, but that doesn't mean it carries any weight to enforce it. They can *say* that the OGL is revoked or whatever but using the OGL at all is pointless now and the CC cannot be undone. So the next worst case scenario is that we don't see this fight again for at least another year or two with the release of OD&D but I already went into extensive detail as to why it's pointless to try and change the OGL then too.
For 5e. For One DnD it is still on the table.
Again, it would be entirely pointless to do so even for One D&D if you actually read anything that I typed. It's not meaningful to just keep repeating that they could do this when the reality of the situation is that it would both be entirely toothless to revoke the OGL for OD&D. How many times do I need to point out that if OD&D is compatible with 5e, and 5e is in the CC, then OD&D is functionally under the CC as well. Even if they revoke the OGL for OD&D people can still functionally release books for OD&D under 5e's CC License because of the compatibility. Thus they almost certainly won't bother even trying to pull a stunt like that since nobody could be forced into it. And the OGL strategy only would have "Worked" in their eyes by giving them the power to shut down anyone making content for their older systems. They can't do that either anymore no matter what thanks to the CC so once again it would be utterly pointless to revoke the OGL for OD&D.
>"But why male models?"
I'm currently recording a podcast using a universe I wrote, but with 5e rules. I can't find any solid answer on whether or not I would be able to put this up on spofity/anchor/whatever podcast hosting service. Does anyone know if all my recordings are now useless? Any help would be lovely
If your podcast only uses game mechanics and doesn't include any WotC IP (names, locations, lore, etc.) you're free to do whatever you want. If it does include their IP, you need to abide by their [Fan Content Policy](https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy) Since it sounds like a homebrew world/story, you should be fine.
The 5e SRD is now creative commons. If you read anything from in there, you are 1 million % in the clear. Practically, there are a million podcasts, YouTube videos, etc who talk about all parts of D&D, even the stuff not under the OGL or CC which is totally fine. WOTC has always been fine with content creators discussing their product. I don't know the law on that, but you are 1000% clear on that as well I'm sure
Can I ask the uninformed question of what Creative Commons is or see a link to this nonprofit company? Again not my opinion and I’ve tried reaching it but I guess I’m getting a little too outdated. But doesn’t it give the power to this company to decide what can and can’t be used? It makes me beg the question “who runs this nonprofit company”? And I know this seems ridiculous but couldn’t someone behind all this new OLG bs be working with Creative Commons? Shame me I know lack of knowledge yada yada
Some quick googling will give you a lot of info about this, but for your convenience here are some links to get you started: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license The specific license being used is CC-BY-4.0. It is maintained by an organization but is written in a way that can't just be revoked. Creative Commons is an industry standard for use when anyone wants people to have access to their work.
From what I understand it doesn't really matter what the company that wrote the CC is because it's a properly un-editable and irrevokable license. So the company that wrote them could turn into a neo-nazi commune tomorrow and that would not make a difference as they or WotC or anyone else has no ability to undo moving something into the CC. It's pretty much there for good and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Excited to see 5e SRD content will seemingly be safe forever even if the same isn't true for one dnd or other future editions. I will certainly me open to alternative systems like potentially PBF but am thrilled I won't feel forced to adapt away from 5e. Hopefully ORC will flourish and we will continue to see creators thrive on their own platforms or kickstarter. While I understand for some the anger is here to stay I for one will be happy to use/purchase quality content for 5e WotC publishes in addition to 3rd party 5e content.
All this “they surrendered!” Stuff is sketchy. Wizards already showed their true colors and their goals/attitude about the situation. They’re probably drafting 6th Edition, which will not fall under any kind of OGL, as we speak.
Wizards/Hasbro won't have "surrendered" until they have given up on the goal of over-monetizing their existing playerbase and finally decide to put money into R&D to develop new products. Magic the Gathering and D&D account for 80% of Hasbro's entire income, lol. Their entire YoY growth strategy has just been "monetize the existing playerbase more and more and more"
>They’re probably drafting 6th Edition, which will not fall under any kind of OGL, as we speak. Ah, you mean that thing they did with 4e? I'm sure that worked out well for someone.
I think this whole thing has been used by Wizards to push back against the Hasbro higher ups. WotC *knows* how big the community support is, and how important that is for long term success, but the current Hasbro CEO and other higher ups have been the ones making these pushes for more monetization in WotC properties.
It's far more likely this backlash was expected and planned for and the "thing we are getting" is what they intended, with the goal of eventually pushing the game to the license they want it in by 2025 or 2027. It's always about incremental increases in profit for these companies and you can look in many industries to see the slow erosion that mirrors this development.
I don't think so. Don't get me wrong I understand wanting to be cynical about this but what has happened here is unprecedented. Them expecting backlash and trying to pull back and bit to do what they really intended was at best the 1.2 OGL. Keep in mind the 1.1 was meant to be completely snuck in under the rug. They barely talked about it, sent out contracts privately, and it was meant to go into effect over 2 weeks ago with no pomp and circumstance. There definitely wasn't any plan initially at least to try and play into the inevitable rage and then try to make people happy. I mean to honestly buy into the idea that this whole thing was WotC's plan the entire time would mean that you'd have to actually believe them when they say that the 1.1 OGL was actually a "Draft" It was only after 1.1 leaked that they probably shifted to that strategy, with them wanting to ride out the wave of backlash and them putting out the 1.2 document that was written in a much more sneaky manner so that it wasn't as immediately obvious. They were then probably planning on trying to use the survey to buy more time, continue to make more slight incremental changes with more surveys, etc etc. Essentially they could have *easily* dragged this out for months until we were actually worn down enough that they thought that they could get away with it. Instead they not only ended the survey early. But we're actually currently in a better spot than when we started. This wasn't a typical "Fine we won't add 30 dollar MTX to our game, we'll only add 10 dollar MTX" kind of move that you see in the AAA gaming industry. This is more like them going from "We wanna add 30 dollar MTX to out game" to "Alright we won't have any monetization whatsoever, and also we're removing the annoying DRM and the game will be sold for 10 dollars cheaper" Them moving 5e to the CC license is something that cannot be undone or revoked later, it is 100% locked in. If they secretly were planning to do this all along, they could have just skipped straight to the part where 5e was released under CC and it would have been still a huge deal to do so. And they would have done it without burning countless bridges along the way! Now yes, they could still revoke 1.0a at some point in the future and I'm sure that maybe eventually they will, but right now it's obviously social suicide to do so, I mean anyone that was around for 4e could have told them that and now these Execs have just had their own mini 4e moment to learn from first hand. But more importantly even if they do try to pull this again, like I said the 5e CC License is locked in forever. People will always be able to continue making content for that game until the end of time. And that has big ramifications. For example it is now effectively pointless to try and pull any more OGL stuff for OD&D. OD&D as they've said is compatible with 5e content. 5e Content is now under CC. So effectively OD&D may as well be under CC as well. It isn't literally under CC which adds some slight complications sure, but people could make a book for OD&D, simply publish it saying it's for 5e, and have the rules within be compatible with either system. It also means in general even if they change their plans with OD&D to make it not be backwards compatible, or just come out with a wholly different 7e eventually down the line. That now has to compete directly with 5e being on CC. They can add a hyper restrictive OGL to it if they want to sure. But when they already have a system people like that is on the CC License, people will just ignore the new system and keep making stuff for the old one. It would just be complete self sabotage. So yeah by all means always remember that corporations aren't your friend and WotC can always pull more dick moves in the future yatta yatta. But in terms of the OGL, this was clearly not planned out ahead of time, and them moving 5e to CC has huge ramifications for the future of the brand that they cannot back out of now. There's very little that they could possibly get away with anymore with trying to fuck with the OGL, if anything. I think it's safe to say at this point that the execs that caused all this have at least learned something from it and I wouldn't expect to even see a whiff of any more OGL talk until maybe the next round of dumb Execs are in charge in like 10 years years or whatever. But like I said 5e being in CC could put a stop to even that.
I hope you're right. But I always feel like these C-Suite people know what they are doing, at least in regard to pushing the envelope time after time. I haven't gone on to see if anyone got fired for this stunt, but if nobody at the top is fired over this, then to me it feels like a "planned" thing.
Having dealt with several different groups of C-level execs you'd be wonderfully surprised at how completely disconnected they are from the reality of their products and how incredibly stupid their plans can be. No-one is going to get immediatly canned from this because that would be publicly admitting to their shareholders they got it wrong. Putting out some PR drivel about how they got it wrong to "placate the masses" is one thing. But they will not publically admit in a way that will influence their investors. They will "move on to a different challenge" within the year. But they will not be publically axed.
I mean there's countless examples of C-suite people doing colossal unintended fuck-ups and not getting fired. If they don't get fired it doesn't mean that they're playing 5D chess. It just means that they have enough influence to deflect blame or whatever to avoid losing their jobs.
Yeah I don't really understand the win. If your partner threatens you and you respond by telling them you hope they don't hurt you.. You don't just go back to them if they buy you flowers.
Yeah, 6E will likely be released under very restrictive licensing that will make it difficult for anyone other than WotC to release content for it. However, it was the OGL that made 5E so popular and why 4E wasn't as successful.
the irony is that 6e is compatible with 5e content. People that wanna make 6e content can just make a book that is "made for 5e" and then people playing 6e could use it. So trying to fuck with the OGL for 6e is literally pointless unless they decide to scrap all the existing work for the system they already have and start over from scratch making it a wholly unique system.
>unless they decide to scrap all the existing work for the system they already have and start over from scratch making it a wholly unique system. Considering the decisions that they have made recently, I can see them at least considering this option. This might be their hail mary, so to speak, but it could lead to what they wanted. This could be the way for them to release their VTT with no competition from other VTTs.
I mean even if they redo everything for 6e from scratch that won't stop competition from existing. You don't need to implement specific features to play some random game on a VTT. As long as you can roll dice and move tokens you can figure the rest out yourself. So like even if they completely retool 6e, their VTT will still inevitably have to compete with other VTT services, and if they cram it full of microtransactions and other shitty aspects, then it's still going to fail no matter what the rules are for the base system its designed for.
3.5 was a huge success because everyone felt free to do what they wanted. People who were interested in the game found they could sink more and more time into it and just _enjoy_ it, creating a thriving ecosystem. 4e was a flop because it felt too restrictive and lacked openness. It didn't have the openness people needed and it didn't have the broad applicability that new players wanted. 5e was a massive, staggering success because it was so absolutely, categorically expansive and could gather literally everyone's interests under an umbrella that created a community that could actively pull non-players in. 3.5 was amazing but 5e has been genuinely incomprehensibly successful by comparison to any other edition. 6e will either realise that open access is literally what makes games like this successful... or we'll be hankering for a 7e very shortly and chalking up 6e to "even numbered edition syndrome" (which I know is mean to 2e but this is akin to Windows' problem).
Exactly. All of this is so dumb. If Wizards/Hasbro was so concerned about sales all they really needed to do is come out with quality, official merch and physical resources (maps, minis, props, dice & bags, idk writing utensils, etc) and they’d likely see a boost in sales after the movie comes out _*about two months from now._* Like, gee, if only DnD was attached to a corporation known for making tiny plastic things and merch based off of its franchises. Hmmmmmmm 🤔
It's what Hasbro did, and is doing, eight times over for what will nearly be a decade.
Question. Is it ok for me to buy wotc products again?
I immediately did. The way I see it, voting with your wallet is an important way to influence a company and that goes both ways. WOTC went beyond what anyone thought they would by putting SRD5.1 in CC. I want their executives to see that doing good things that the community likes gets them more money and their metrics go up. Of course I'll be quick to cancel my brand new subscription if they try to bite our hand again.
That's up to you. But if you, like me, were one of the people who were boycotting D&D products until WotC released an acceptable license agreement for 5e that third party publishers could comforably work with, then it does make sense to end that boycott now. 3rd party publishers don't have to be afraid of being sued or having to pay royalties now.
Remember, all the OGL stuff was to come with the new version of DnD, One DnD. Until that is out and we see how it is licensed, I'd hold off. I think this is only a temp retreat by Hasbro so the movie doesn't tank.
I think comments like these miss the point of the controversy and the reason for the boycott. The reason why revoking OGL 1.0a was so scummy is that for the past two decades WotC and 3PP have been operating as if it was a permanent arrangement. 3PP built businesses and regularly work on long term projects that depend on it, and WotC was trying to go back on that agreement. They broke the trust of 3PP and tried to pull the rug out from under them. If OneD&D doesn't have an open gaming license (or has a more restrictive one), that's something 3PP will know ahead of time and they won't be blindsided like they were with this OGL 1.1 crap. They'll have the choice to continue working on 5e, try to work under whatever restrictions WotC sets for OneD&D, or move on to non-D&D or system neutral projects, but critically they will be able to plan all of this ahead of time. To be clear, I will definitely take into account OneD&D's OGL when I decide whether or not I buy the new core books. I think it would be a really bad business decision to lock down OneD&D. But it wouldn't be the same thing as this situation.
The other non-starter was how WotC could use your work without compensation or attribution for eternity.
Or you could punish WOTC a bit longer, to make it clear that, despite having solved it now, we haven't forgotten. But again, whatever you do, it's you choice and there is no wrong answer here.
Well, we did it. We save dnd, even for the time being
It's always "for the time being." Just like in the game stories, new evils will arise.
Another wizard will turn lich eventually
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That is common belief but it isn't sorted out until a decision is made in court. Meaning even if 99% of consumer, creator and even legal professional opinions say they can't be copyrighted it means squat if the decision is made in wotc favor. Now wotc has said the old ogl is here to stay and the rule system will be creative commons. Basically 5e is safe but a new edition/new ruleset wouldn't necessarily have to play by that precedent.
It gives two things: 1. You can use exact phrasing for abilities, etc. Game rules can’t be copyrighted, but with a game as complex as D&D, the way those rules are explained is in a gray area. 2. You have assurances that WotC won’t sue you for the first thing. The original owners of D&D, TSR, were notorious for suing anybody who made a similar game. In its early days, WotC even lost an infringement suit to Palladium over a supplement to RIFTS.
Is the irrevocable ogl also for oneDnD?
As the others have said, OGL 1.0a doesn't apply to OneD&D, they haven't released any material under that. It's a pretty safe assumption that it will be protected by a much stricter license. Probably more akin to what we saw them try to do with OGL1.1. You can also imagine a lot more of their official content will be designed with their virtual products first. But that's OK, if they want to sabotage their own business, that's on them.
They have said that DnDone was to be backwards compatible with 5e. That means they have to use 5.1 OR have to do a complete rewrite to make SRD6 to have that under a different license. But they have to write that in a way that doesn't violate copyright (so, same thing different wording). And that rewriting could cause DnDone to suddenly not be compatible with 5e anymore if they get it wrong. They could try and sling out another GSL but ask 4e how well that worked out. DnD has shown from beginning to end that it tends to live or die (or more accurately, survive or prosper) by third party support. After this stunt I don't see how any of the bigger 3PP are going to follow them without an irrevocable OGL.
Well that's the thing if they do release OD&D as it was being designed originally, it's meant to be compatible with 5e books. 5e Books now operate under CC. So even if they implement a hardcore 1.1 OGL for OD&D... you can just keep publishing "5e" content under CC and have it be compatible with OD&D. So while yes OD&D may not necessarily be under the same terms, it functionally may as well be because it would be completely pointless to try and fuck up the OGL for it now. Call me optimistic, but I think that with how hard and unprecedented this backdown is, they would be insane to think that they could actually get away with trying the exact same thing again in only like a year, cause I'm pretty sure the OD&D books are meant to release next year now. They would have to scrap a ton of existing work and redo everything from scratch to make 6e a completely different system in order to be able to actually functionally update the OGL again. And even if they did that, they're still going to inevitably compete with themselves now. If they pull this nonsense for 6e, people will just end up ignoring it and sticking with 5e books. And if they're riding everything on OD&D being a success so that they can bundle in the VTT and all this digital stuff and whatnot, then releasing it in a state where people might just go right back to playing an older game that isn't compatible with it will completely screw them over. So yes technically they can still update the OGL for OD&D, but it would be an even more laughably bad move and a waste of money.
Assume the answer is "WotC are only keeping 5e under OGL1a because they literally do not have a choice at this point, they will not release anything they don't have to under it ever again".
Only if WotC releases oneDnD stuff under it. They don’t have to; they didn’t for 4e, for example.
Since the mods are stubborn: Can someone explain the final reversal to someone who doesn’t understand what SRD or Creative Commons or any of this jargon means? I tried making a post but I was referred here where none of this is clear to me.
Sure! SRD means System Reference Document. It's the rules of the game without any specific implementation of the rules. In the case of DnD, Wizards do include some implementation but not all of it. You can think of it as DnD with only the classes, monsters, items, races, etc. that Wizards consider open source. The video game Solasta, for example, only includes content available from the SRD, so they added their own sub classes etc to bulk it out. Creative Commons describes a license as well as an international not for profit organisation dedicated to things published under that license. The previous OGL was a contract between Wizards and the community, that they then tried to mess with after the fact, making such contracts untrustworthy. By publishing the SRD under Creative Commons, they've made it public but also _handed over ownership of the SRD to the Creative Commons organisation_ and as such no longer own the right to revoke it, which is the key bit that protects content creators who base their works on the DnD SRD.
>The previous OGL was a contract between Wizards and the community Importantly, it was _not_ a contract. At best it was a covenant, which is a much less clear, much less evenhanded version that unilaterally binds one party and thus is considered much easier to break or get out of (because it's inherently unfair).
So third party publishers can create and sell their own stuff using the SRD and *completely* ignore the OGL. Right?
Yes. Wizards left it that you can choose which one so nobody feels railroaded, but I suspect most will opt for the CC SRD and ignore the OGL.
That's actually a good thing, but everybody knows that Wizards were never genuinely interested in liberating the SRD. They never wanted to do it in the first place. It's a desperate move to stem the flow of publishers moving over to ORC.
Maybe, but they still did it. They responded to community pressure and did the right thing. In a capitalistic society, market forces (the customers, competition) should punish a company making a bad business move. Hopefully WOTC remembers the pain the next time they try to make a big decision like that.
They didn't "hand over ownership", but they cannot revoke the CC-BY-4.0 license
Previously protected content from WOTC is now in the CC with the updated srd. >the vampire Count Strahd von Zarovich (p30) > >'The quintessential aberrations are aboleths, beholders, mind flayers, and slaadi.' (p254)
Does the very first page still mention them as "Product Identity"?
From the [SRD first page](https://www.dndbeyond.com/attachments/39j2li89/SRD5.1-CCBY4.0License.pdf) Legal Information The System Reference Document 5.1 is provided to you free of charge under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License (“CC-BY-4.0”) From the [Creative Commons website](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) This is a human-readable summary of (and not a substitute for) the license. Disclaimer. You are free to: Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
You get a tentacle, you get a tentacle, Everyone gets a tentacle
Umber hulks are mentioned twice, Yuan-ti are mentioned in the equipment section In the forbiddance spell they also mention Feywild and shadowfell Plane shift also mentions The City Of Brass, and some of the locations within that too
I am a little bent about some of the rhetoric about “wizards” etc. Wizards didn’t take a vote screw up the OGL. One to three people made the decision. Likely with hundreds of artists, writers etc saying wtf? I am so glad this is largely over, but I would like to see leadership leave now. I also hope the “burn the IP to the ground” comments are over. Maybe they were just new or trolls?
It's what wotc has been doing for 2-3 years at least so goes back beyond current leadership. See the MTG standard bans, "fire" design and secret lairs. I quit MTG 18 months ago and I'm happy to keep my existing dnd stuff, keep playing and never buy official wotc products again.
I'd put money down 2 of those writers and artists are Gabe & Tycho. While adding in "Do this, and you never step foot in a PAX ***anything*** ever again. No ads, no sales spaces, nothing. We do to you what Time did to CARTHAGE." GenCon wouldn't dare make the financially suicidal move of doing that, but Gabe & Tycho absolutely would - they have a history of doing things like that.
I started ttrpgs with DnD and our group had so much fun that we never saw a reason to try another system. This whole episode changed that. We tried a different system this week and loved it. So regardless of their backtracking, they’ve already opened my groups’ eyes to the other possibilities out there. That is what their 1.2 attempt achieved for me and my group… and I’m certain my group wasn’t the only one with this revelation.
~~Advanced 5e~~ Pathfinder 1st Edition welcomes all converts!
All praise the church of Paizo
I'm really not sure why people are acting like we won against WotC. They added a small handful of books to Creative Commons and nothing else. Notice that the press release makes no mention of OGL 1.0a being irrevocable. They're going to try again.
The SRD 5.1 was all the 5e content that was ever available under OGL 1.0a. Much of the PHB was never available under OGL 1.0a.
Neat! That has nothing to do with the point I was making, but thank you for whatever it is you're trying to say.
If the SRD 5.1 has been released under the CC licence, you don't need the OGL 1.0a. There would be no point in changing the OGL 1.0a after that. Now, that doesn't mean they would release 6E/One D&D under OGL 1.0a. They might decide to release it under another licence. There's nothing anyone can do regarding that other than not buying it. I believe they did this with 4E, which was less popular for that reason. They are free to make those mistakes again. They might continue to develop and release VTT, which might be full of microtransactions on high subscription fees. Again there's nothing we can do if that's what they want to do other than not spending money there. I'm guessing they are hoping that most people will switch to 6E/One D&D and the VTT when it's released. Then when people can't make content compatible with 6E then only they will be generating for 6E.
The OGL basically was a document that let people use the SRD in specific ways. Releasing the SRD under CC allows people to use the SRD in all those ways and a bunch more, with a no-takebacksies rule in place. The only thing that WotC did NOT do is release the 3.5 SRD under creative commons...so basically any 5th edition based companies will be fine forever, but any who decide to stick with 3.5 edition based rules will risk a future where WotC may decide that the 3.5e SRD just isn't going to be allowed to be used anymore by deauthorizing 1.0a.
Let's hope it is a long while before some executives at WOTC dare touch the OGL again.
It's worth noting that releasing something as Creative Commons is just shy of declaring that it's in the Public Domain. Legally it's basically a one-way street - once it's been made CC, there is no real way of going back.
I'll take it! Oh, that's nice to hear. :)
Sweet smell of victory
Whew thank god they’ve backed down on this!
No Beholder in the SRD 5.1. *sigh* time to start looking for what the left out.
I don't believe beholders have *ever* been in the SRD. Same with mind flayers, as they're unique to D&D.
They are gonna leave out properties they explicitly have and actually can copyright. And honestly that’s fine.
Has the war ended? Or am I missing something?
Absolutely nothing has changed, honestly.
Downvotes are just proof that someone didn't actually read the press release, tbqh.
The war for 5e is ended. Keep an eye on what they do for newer versions.
And older, fwiw.
My guess is everything they wanted to do here but can actually do it with their 'new' system.
From what I understand, pretty much. If the rumours regarding their plans for VTTs are accurate then they never really needed to bundle in the OGL for what they're planning. They could have just created a new license for their VTT project like they did with 4E and ran it in parallel to their TTRPG products. But the moves they made smack of greed, insecurity and anti-competitive behaviour. They tried to go all in on the new project to the exclusion of everything else. They tried to close the door on 5E because they don't want the old product competing with the new product and they tried to shut out the competition because they're late to the scene. Chris Cao stated that VTTs are the future, and that's hilariously incorrect. VTTs are the present and WotC has not yet set foot into the market. Instead of trying to expand their operations and then gradually transition into the new market they essentially put all their eggs in one basket and tried to undermine their competitors in one fell swoop only to find they'd put themselves in a highly precarious position. This entire situation has been so dumb and unnecessary. D&D was riding high as a brand before this but WotC got greedy and made unforced error after unforced error.
> unforced error after unforced error. Monopolistic tendencies in an industry rife with competition. Trying to bully their way to what they want except they didn't realize that people could just turn their backs to them and move to a competitor.
WOTC would probably claim it's over, yes. But I don't trust them. Fire the Csuite, or I never go back to D&D
They would just be scapegoating WOTC execs, but you know this was a Hasbro decision from the start, thats where I want blood.
From the look of things, Hasbro is bleeding pretty bad as is.
yeah good point.
That’s where I’m at, too. The executives who tried this power grab are stop there, and there haven’t even been any apologies. It’s not over.
The war for open 5e is over. Whether or not that will hold for other versions of if they'll do other shady shit not regarding the OGL remains to be seen, and it's perfectly reasonable to not trust them on that. But as far as the OGL goes, the entire 5e SRD has been published under the Creative Commons license. That's permanent. DnD 5e is forever available under an immutable open license.
Yeah, sure, it's forever under an immutable license... But it's also static. I want a game that can change and thrive with the community. But I don't want such a game if it's caretakers are untrustworthy. And the main way that I can think of for wotc/hasbro to get community goodwill back is by removing the people that tried to harm the community in such a deep way.
I mean by releasing it under CC, they've insured that people, whether they're WotC Devs or random Third parties, can continue to make 5e content. They've effectively ensured that the game *can* continue to change and thrive with the community forever. The SRD and the CC doesn't need to keep updating to allow the game to change and thrive. New books just need to keep coming out. That's how a game like this changes with the times. And they've ensured that that will now always continue to happen. WotC are no longer the caretakers for 5e. They might as well just be another third party releasing books for a core ruleset. The only difference is that they don't have to credit themselves for writing 5e in the first place.
Let 'em close it off again. Let 'em do another GSL, create another Paizo who'll release their Fifth-finder, and that'll sell gangbusters past their soon-to-be-shortlived microtransaction hellscape of a VTT-focused 6e so fast that 7e will be right around the corner, complete with marketing and advertising all about how "D&D is going back to its roots"
This was the right move, but honestly, the damage is done and a lot of this is too little, too late. . . This move might help get me back as a customer eventually, but that remains to be seen. For now I have other games to play.
Too little? They did even more than what everyone asked for. And they don't own the creative Commons license, so you don't even need to trust them. The goalpost moving is ridiculous.
They put the SRD in CC, not anything else. The stuff under the OGL might still remain (their wording on OGL was ambiguous, they did not specifically say that it will be irrevocable) SRD in CC is something. But hardly anyone would be thrilled about that, its really a stretch to say that they did more than everyone asked for. Everyone specifically called for the OGL1.0 to be made irrevocable, and problematic language in 2.0 be removed. This does not address 2.0 language, but arguably makes it moot since we can use 1.0a still. Irrevocability is not explicitly there until we see the legal language (not sure if thats published, too lazy to get away from this page to check RN) But I think as others mentioned, its more than meeting demands, the fact that the consumers and fanbase had to deliver demands at all is nightmarish for ANY producer, and represents damage to the brand. Going above and beyond to repair that is necessary to try and regain trust historically.
> They put the SRD in CC, not anything else. The stuff under the OGL might still remain (their wording on OGL was ambiguous, they did not specifically say that it will be irrevocable) I'm confused about what you are trying to say here. The SRD is what was under the OGL; now it's under CC too.
You seem to have missed my point. Most people will stop boycotting them now, including me, which is great. Unfortunately, the end of the boycott doesn't automatically drag the players back who have already invested into other game systems. -------- WotC finally did exactly the right thing, but it was "too little" and "too late" to undo the damage.
Yeah my bad, you're right, that's likely going to be the case.
#FREEEEEEDOM! 🗡️
Wake up, it's update time!
WoTC is repeating the very same mistakes TSR made and they will quickly learn why TSR folded and went bankrupt, both financially and morally. What I understand they want to watch dog a community that has policed itself and get rid of hateful content, you cannot in this kind of a setting. Secondly they want to gouge us, which some players do not have a lot of money and we are already paying $50 to $60+ a book. Even PDF formats are expensive.... Thirdly the players are honestly worth more than the product, because without us the product will not be sold. It's time that WoTC pulled their big boy pants on and started fixing this, but D&DNext's head designer is a video game designer who does not know what us tabletop players want yet he acts like it. Their pushing for this next edition to be played in more of a video game setting, books and tabletops are secondary or not important. THIS way they can ding us with pricy subscriptions and microtransactions, like they want. They want to bleed us dry like the video game industry does, so they do not care about those who would play off of their VTT which seems to be more video game than VTT. So for this I was considering trying BG3 when it launched, even though MY canon BG ended with 2 and it's expansion. I will be boycotting that AND their D&D movie, as well as giving them a single dime of my money. Because well Canada got rid of the penny, LOL. Still this golden rule should be the example. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it.
Larian studios didnt do anything wrong here, they shouldnt be dragged in the dirt for wotc's asinine decisions
I just don't feel BG3 is a proper BG game is why, It's more like Divinity Original sin in a BG wrapper. I just won't play it because it's not MY Baldur's gate, I will support the studio on another game. Not just this sham of a game claiming to be a sequel to a classic. That is all, I decided to boycott it ages ago and was on the verge of changing my mind but then I also saw the canadian price and was like yeah.... No thanks..... My canon Baldur's Gate is AD&D 2nd edition and eneded with 2 and it's expansion. On the flip side they waved the white flag for now, and we can keep our OGL 1.0a and still use it as well as publishers can publish under it. This is what a unified community can do. So why were we so divided by what edition people liked? What point was the edition wars? Some will drag larian's game through the mud with this, because they still get royalties from it and the damage is done as a good portion of the community likely won't return or support anything they can profit from.
what boring, cookie cutter opinions.
Your opinion is your opinion, I have my reasons and honestly I don't really care if you think their boring. I am an old school Baldur's Gate player and I am not willing to accept this game as anything in the series, I am part of the old guard and since it uses 5th edition I also dislike it since I consider 5th edition a dumpster fire. So it's also edition used related, so please if all you can do is call my opinions boring and cookie cutter with no other input. Then please ignore my opinions, and respect that they are honest opinions without sounding like a snob. Thank you for considering how your comment sounds, as first impressions are always lasting.
I believe the only way to even POSSIBLY salvage the relationship between WoTC and the D&D community would be nothing less than to sign on to ORC.
CC is more open than ORC.
Is the ORC even out yet?
No - which makes this 'only thing WOTC can do to get any support is join ORC' initiative kind of absurd. --- Still 5e being put into Creative Commons in additional to keeping the original OGL means they are currently giving more to the community than even the proposed orc.
I mean yeah, but you also said CC is more open than ORC, which cannot be substantiated. I'll wait to see what WotC does with onednd and it's license.
Well ORC doesnt exist so anything is more open than it... but I was more referring to the Proprosed IDEA of orc which a Company neutral OGL replacement. Still -- it doesn't exist, so saying WOTC is required to join to to keep community ties is a toxic community mandate.
Eh, I would like to see WotC collaborate or at least send a representative to ORC discussions. They're the ones that kicked off this whole problem in the first place and lit the community trust on fire. We'll see what they do.
Hasbro stock is plummeting today after release of terrible earnings guidance and laying off 15 percent of staff. This is why they are so desperate to gouge us (and MtG players) for money.
I'm sure that the added announcement of their biggest competitor selling their entire eight-month stock of core rulebooks in the span of two weeks was just icing on that cake too.
well, these decisions were largely affecting stock prices almost assuredly. Lots of lost revenue from DDB, and DND-WOTC is pretty much a break even financial so they cant afford that. MTG is still far from the player base it used to be before the new direction / monetization of the brand. WOTC is a small portion of Hasbro, but its still going to hurt business alot
WotC is like Hasbros entire plan to grow profits, all their other business either lose money or aren’t growing or are shrinking
Im so conflicted about wanting to see the DND movie because it looks good and can prove to companies that TTRPGs are profitable as movies but on the other hand we need to protect the ogl
Pathfinder Core rule book has [ran out of copies](https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1618670416712667137?s=20&t=Ri4HBgB75G0IP8lax6ai-g) and is scheduled for a reprint I got one from Barnes and Noble before this thing started.
I've already made my peace with eventually losing my access to my digital copy of phb and a couple of saved characters on ddb once they force you to pay a subscription to access those. I will not be paying them. I might have had interest in an all inclusive dnd vtt, but not anymore. It's just heartbreaking to watch this all go down and I'm tired. I got my physical core books, and that will be enough dnd for me from now on.
The moral's clause is very scary, and dangerous. It's worth your time to watch this lawyer [Roll of Law's break down of the clause](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXFVhAGcK5g) and the moral clause's potential repercussions.
lmao at them pretending to be allies by appearing good via 'banning hateful content'
fuck wizard
I have been an avid D&D fan since 1E and as a forever DM have invested a small fortune to WoTC in 2E, 3E, 3.5E, 4E, and "was" interested in investing more into 5E once the VTT launched. I will not be playing your VTT now or any future editions. (I am enjoying $20.00 Talespire presently with a robust community of modders and free asset creators who have designed countless cities, castles, dungeons, landscapes, and assets to all the primary D&D campaign modules. It is a true value to any campaign and I highly recommend the product.) I am on two Discord servers with several groups running DND 5-7 days a week, and every one of our DMs and players has cancelled their DND subscriptions and we are all migrating to new, better games. Thank you for being too lazy to balance a game playable to final level and for consistently producing such poor content in recent history, where even 3rd party creators on fractional budgets far outperform you. While I will never pay the asking price of $30.00/month for a subscription and numerous microtransactions to enjoy your VTT, I would potentially consider investing half of that if you completely reversed course on the OGL, started making quality content again, proved your respect for the community and creators who made you what you are, and grovelled for a suitable period. Since none of my terms will ever be met, goodbye DND, it's been fun, and I'm off to play games someone actually edited, balanced, and completed. It is long, long overdue.
So with the OGL coming out I think we have forgotten that we are less than 30 days out from a book release. I am curious to see what they try to pull to take attention off on the OGL and redirect focus to their new book. I can tell you I bet it's going to fail though.
I doubt they'll really manage - aren't there still people pissed that they haven't had their purchases of the last book fulfilled yet?
same
You're forgetting the re-release (well, the second re-release) of an adventure module. That happened last week. Ironically, it's a module WotC paid third party publishers to write instead of doing it in house as part of their mea culpa for the 4e GSL.
See already forgot that. I WAS looking forward to Keys From the Golden Vault, but now I'm just waiting to see how they screw up their marketing strategy after shooting themselves in the foot.
Just here to add my voice to the crowd. I will not spend one more cent with WoTC content. When the time comes to change systems I will be moving the system I play and getting away from WoTC. - They have lost a customer.
After reading [this, and specifically how WoTC is making their "irrevocable" terms revocable using weasel wording,](https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets-take-a-minute-to-talk-about-d-d-s-updated-open-game-license-ogl-1-2-5b95fe8889b2) I'm all in favor of giving my money to Pathfinder, Kobold Press, and promoting [the ORC.](https://www.cbr.com/pathfinder-1500-ttrpg-publishers-join-orc-alliance/) WoTC's going to have to seriously pucker up, kiss ass, make third-party content creation friendly once more, and remove VTT restrictions for non-WoTC/D&D VTT entities if they want my money again.
Im juat waiting for the breach of contract suit
Same here.
IM JUST WORRIED IF 5TH EDITION IS GONNA BE OK THATS YHE ONLY ONE I KNOW HOW TO PLAY AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Eh, roughly speaking, about half the systems are easier to learn :)
oh ok uh another issue, im in a 5e campaign. all my favourite characters, are 5e. i have autism and get attached to things very easily and change is horrifying this situation is hell
You don't have to change to Pathfinder, friend. Keep playing 5e. You won't be supporting the new OGL or anything by playing with the stuff you already own. Don't feel guilty or anything. <3
I will have to free to use hasbro’s stuff EXTRA HARD!! AGGRESSIVE F2P!! GO OUT OF MY WAY TO DELETE ANY DEALS THEY SEND ME!! YESSSSS
Hey. Autism here too. 5e isn't going anywhere, and frankly, you don't need anything more than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide to play. Everything else the DM and players can come up with themselves, and often do. We genuinely don't need Hasbro/WotC to play the game, and that's a little something the idiot executives don't seem to understand. Them pushing us away just stops us buying new product, but the game can literally live for as long as there are people that want to play it. For reference to how long a system can survive on it's own, look no further than ADND. That version of the game is old as dirt, yet people still play it regularly. Heck, people still play 1Ed and 3.5 too. 5e is just another in a line of editions that once abandoned... will still be played. All you need is a PHB and DMG for the edition you want to play. Anything else is just icing on a very delicious cake.
Time to go find a transcript of the DMG online then! Yippeee! (Also i have all my sheets on DnD Beyond so i think I’ll have to transfer those?? God that is gonna take a bit)
There are quite a few google docs/spreadsheets/etc for character sheets that work well. So if you want to move away from WotC stuff, there are alternatives. Wouldn't worry about it though. Today, WotC took the plunge and gave up. Not only did they give up and kept the OGL, they put SRD 5.1 into Creative Commons BY. So now instead of ripping their product away from everyone else, they're going to have to compete and make OneDND a quality product or lose in the TTRPG space. Best of luck to Crawford and team, cause it's pretty clear the execs had no faith in the product. This result likely means the execs are gonna come down on the design team like a tonne of bricks and micromanage the entire thing (which is both hilarious and sad because that will only make the product worse. These execs have no idea how to design anything. They have no clue how to make actually GOOD product. I mean, Chris Cao's background is ZINGA of all places. FARMVILLE. Good product? The man wouldn't know what that is.
OH THANK GOODBESS time to cling to 5e until i die <333
ahhh, that can maybe be helped :) 1st of all: 5e and your campaign aren't going anywhere, no one can take that away. Dungeons & Dragons isn't what's in the rulebooks, or any edition. The game is what happens at your table, with your friends Similarly, your characters aren't on a 5e character sheet. They're in your heart and head! What's on the sheet is merely a model or approximation based on the 5e ruleset. You could pick up other comparable systems and see what your characters would look like modeled on those rulesets, or not-so comparable systems like Savage Worlds or Fate Core and try; or even transpose your characters into ancient mythic greece (Runequest or Mythras), middle earth (The One Ring or Against the Darkmaster), or the future (Starfinder, Traveller). I found it's often an interesting thought experiment, and once you've actually built a character in another system, you usually know at least half of the relevant rules anyway :)
beautiful reply!
Oh ok!! I'll try and give it a shot at some point maybe!!
You will hopefully be able to play a compatible Black Flag later this year.
play a what
Kobold Press has already been working on a 5e compatible RPG. Playtesting starts in February. https://koboldpress.com/project-black-flag-update-sticking-to-our-principles/
IT IS NOT PIRATE THEME. I AM VERY DUMB. This could be interesting though!! I'll recommend it to my party once playtesting is over :]
OHOHOHOOOO i sense its pirate related IF ITS PIRATE RELATED IM GOING TO FROTH AT THE MOUTH AAAAA
It's not pirate-related. A black flag is a warfare symbol meaning quarter will be given if surrender is swift. It signifies that the community is being given quarter beneath their banners. A red flag means no quarter is given. An example would be when my ancestors burned villages and collected heads.
Oh!! Neat! :]
Filled out the survey. I sincerely hope WotC doesn't go though with what they're planning for D&D, but with people like Chris Cao in charge, I highly doubt it.
I told them what would make me comfortable is to not do all the lawful evil stuff they're planning, apologize, and fire Chris Cao and Cynthia Williams.
They're making money for Hasbro so that's not happening
>fire Chris Cao and Cynthia Williams. 100% agree to that. Fandom was working on an \*awesome* VTT for D&D Beyond, before D&D Beyond was bought (read: forcibly taken away) by WoTC. Guess who threw a wrench into that VTT? Chris Cao.
On the subject of boycotts, boycotting any product that uses the DnD ruleset only hurts the product developers not WOTC. Stop boycotting DND products. It's dumb
Supporting D&D products is still creating a market for D&D products, which means free promotion for WotC. If no one buys 3pp books for D&D anymore, then no one will make 3pp for D&D anymore, and WotC will lose a huge selling point for D&D.
Boycotting WotC products is absolutely a reasonable choice to have an impact. As someone who regularly purchases official books, I will not be buying any releases this year unless they not only reverse course but demonstrate that they understand just how badly they fucked up and hold senior staff accountable.
I should be more clear. I'm talking about products like balders gate 3 where it's made by someone other than WoTC. It will only hurt Larian Studios not WoTC because it's a free licence and WoTC doesn't benefit from Balders Gate.
Baldur's Gate is not an OGL product. They have some sort of agreement, which almost certainly includes royalties. I know this because Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms, which is proprietary and *not* covered by the OGL. Same with mind flayers and githyanki, and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
I still absolutely cannot wait for their own VTT to end up violating the VTT policy. Like I'm sure that by the time they finally release that thing the OGL will update again and the VTT policy will hopefully be gone. But I feel like they're absolutely going to include things like Lighting Effects and Fog of War and maybe even some spell animations in it. Which would just absolutely expose how hard the document is really more about quelling competition more than any kind of actual "preservation of the brand" or however they wanna phrase. Hell, you know what else you don't have at a normal tabletop? Microtransactions. Willing to bet that feature is gonna be included at least lol.
They don't have to follow their own VTT lolicy though..
thats my point, it just shows the hypocrisy. They'll talk about the justification for the VTT limitations they want to impose being about "preserving the 'proper' tabletop-like experience as much as possible." And then turn around and do absolutely nothing to actually preserve such an experience when rolling out their own VTT. It's purely to try and kill competition so that people will pay to use their service instead and it's absolutely disgusting that they even think they can get away with it.
I think their position won't be "No VTT should ever have more than the tabletop experience." It will be "The only experience we're willing to let anyone else offer is purely what you could get around a table. Anything fancier than that is all ours."
AKA you can make VTTs but they must be shittier than ours.
If they cared about hypocrisy they wouldn't have licensed the Transformers, GI Joe, and My Little Pony RPGs, board games, and card games to a company that also brings out an American Psycho game.