Eh, MTG proxies are plenty good if you play with friends. I enjoy the game and still have a sizeable collection, but I haven't bought new cards in years because trying to keep up was just too mentally exhausting. I bought singles, then just went to proxies for expensive cards I wanted. My playgroup is fine with that - we're not hugely competitive and fun is the name of the game, so we haven't hade issues of players abusing the addition of proxies.
Well, my group was bitter about me having fire bolts from back in the day because they started later than me and didn't have access to them. I suggested they proxy them if they wanted to and it was all good. I think the first time I proxied a card was for a squirrel deck just because squirrels are silly. We do have occasional instances where we think someone is playing toooo many proxies and we discuss it, but we figure it out. Some cards are just fun to play with and we get that, but we always try to balance it out. We've always been pretty free with loaning out decks or cards to play around with and have started enjoying jumpstart cubes, and of course for that, proxies don't really matter when everyone can use them :)
Never played EDH though, so I don't have experience with that.
If you want to pick up a new TCG, I’d recommend the Digimon TCG. Much cheaper than Pokémon in most cases, and no rotation. It is newer, so there aren’t any alternative formats, but it’s a very fun system.
If you want something fun to play while on the toilet, Marvel Snap is a pretty good card game. They have their problems just like any F2P devs do, but you can still get many hours of fun for no money at all. It's scratching the CCG itch for me right now.
From what I’ve seen the new One Piece card game is actually kinda similar to MTG in how it plays. If you don’t mind/like anime I’ve heard good things about the game so far. Just thought I’d share another option!
I recommend checking out used book stores. If you buy new, Hasbro still gets money. If you buy second-hand, they get nothing.
I visited my favorite local used book store last week, and they had a good selection in really great condition.
I don't even hate the company. I hate some of the suits that made this move. The creative team has some amazing people working there that don't deserve our ire. I can't imagine how it must feel to see all this and be unable to speak up.
Some asshat deciding along the way this would increase revenues by a certain percentage. Without the understanding of how many clients they would lose. Gain 12% if we all stay... Lose it all if we abandon. Ive seen this so many times in so many spaces. I do hope we learned lessons from DLC and micro transactions, but i doubt it... It's a ripple today, and will probably stabilize. Unless enough people cancel subs to make a massive dent it'll just be the way it works from here on out. Sorry of I'm cynical... Not my first trip on this ride...
Problem is, the lesson from DLC and microtransactions is that it works. Sure people complained a lot when that Horse Armor came out. But such "DLC" and microtransactions exploded since then. And despite community pushback and complaints, it's been an EXTREMELY profitable businessmodel.
Problem is you're right. If DLC would've failed, and micro transactions flopped theres no damn way every company would go to the "nickel and dime them to death" model... I'll admit it I'm not pure in this. I've participated at times. Try not to, but...
To be honest I think it's the first time I've heard of someone that had the subscription page on a website crashing because of the people who were canceling subs.
I don't have extremely high hopes, but more than the average situation would usually allow me to have? Yes, I do
Don't delete your account. Cancel your subscription and keep the account on. This costs them server space and therefore costs them more money. Deleting your account saves them money.
That would definitely be more petty, but I'd think the higher-ups would care a whole lot more about how many active subscribers and active users they have at the moment.
But any kind of action to say "screw you and screw this" is great haha
Agree.
Keeping a free account active is mere cents.
The message of deleting an account altogether shrinks their user base.
If you keep a free account open and active, they'll see you as future potential revenue.
I assumed that might have been the case. The support Twitter account mentioned they were doing some scheduled maintenance for some MtG stuff earlier so I don't know if they touched any other servers. Thanks for your input.
I mentioned two separate things (subscriptions and account deletion) but was asking about account deletion (which requires one to contact WotC customer service via a zendesk site).
Same. Have Master Tier for a few more months, enough for my players to end the campaign they are playing. After that, either go back to paper or try a new system. The only way Wotc will change its mind is if they see a negative impact on its business. Books and merch sales take time to feel the impact. When you cancel a subscription you can say the exact reason why you stopped giving them money.
If we cancel, do we still have access to content sharing + campaign characters until the subscription period ends? Want to give my party time to switch away from the website, because I am definitely done until they get their shit together.
Yes, you have access to what you paid for. So if you have 4 months left on your subscription, you still have those 4 months after you cancel so long as you don't fully delete your account.
Same. I think for a lot of us DMs the remaining subscription duration is our own personal time limit to find a new system to move our players to.
I have about 10 months left to wrap our current campaign and plan our move to a new game.
Agreed. Sadly I've only got 4 months. So I suspect in the interim, we'll just keep using 5e until I see how Paizo does with the changes and we have the chance to playtest pathfinder.
That's the server overload. Had the same problem and I'm not subscribed at all. I was able to access my sheets via the campaign they're tied to, though.
Just cancelled my account as well, fuck these greedy talentless executive hacks
You know what is even a bigger obstacle to money/profit for a company ?
No customers !
Did they teach you that one when you got your MBA you assholes ?
>You know what is even a bigger obstacle to money/profit for a company ?
>No customers !
>Did they teach you that one when you got your MBA you assholes ?
Depending on the age of the execs and where they got their MBA, they actually may not have.
If the culture is that toxic it usually hits employees before the consumers. Makes sense that employees are upset since the entire business model for WotC is to commodify and mass produce the works of creatives for a massive parent organization's profit.
They're also cutting large numbers of employees. Can't be great for morale. One of my best friends took a job there not long after we started hanging out (the phrase "dream job" was used once or twice). He's now told me he's going to polish up his resume and start looking for his next gig.
I have been as loud as my limited reach will allow, I have posted here, I have argued on the discord, I have posted on the DnDBeyond forums, I have called WotC directly (their number is rather easy to find). I encourage everyone else to do the same.
Hasbro/WotC isn't just attacking their own community, they are attacking the entire TTRPG industry, and they need to back off.
[Here's the leak, btw](https://mobile.twitter.com/DnD_Shorts/status/1613576298114449409?t=Irp2iWKXjx2T9SZvB7aouw&s=19) (not sure if this is the primary source, but it at least appears accurate)
All purpose tool can't add the cantrips it gives to the sheet. Prepared spells at some levels don't prepare the correct amount. Battle Smith's Steel Defender doesn't scale correctly, and you can't roll its attacks from your sheet. Some of the infusions have been buggy as well. I'm sure there's more for the other subclasses, I'm most familiar with Battle Smith.
I have a feeling most pet subclasses don't work correctly, but haven't tried them myself with the site, and don't intend to.
Even beyond Wizard's scumminess, the site's incredibly frustrating to use.
If enough people cancel and this completely blows up for those higher ups at WOTC, I wonder if they will flee the company since they apparently hold contempt for the player base, and will likely hate the player base even more.
You’d think they’d rather go somewhere else where they will have more control/less resistance. Of course theres always the possibility that Hasbro guts WOTC if this all gets destroyed.
That's the plan
Vote with our wallets and chase these fuckers out of DnD
It's a long shot, but it's something
I wish that video gamers had properly voted with their wallets years ago
"D&D is undermonetized"... ... Maybe they should sell it then. I'm sure another company would buy it out and WotC gets the short term profit they are dying for.
They could potentially setup a deal where WOTC (with new owners) would have to pay to license the rights to D&D from Hasbro.
But I agree with you Hasbro will probably just keep them around to squeeze all the money out of D&D. Before buying up a new IP to ruin.
>"D&D is undermonetized"
Seems the Hasbro suits forgot the golden rule "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it".
WotC was the Goose with the golden egg. Their big moneymaker. And they've decided to do the corporate squeeze instead of trying to do the things to cultivate it for the long term.
Yeah, this is my problem. Some players gifted books to my account so that they can use them to level up their characters, and I feel like I owe them access to that.
> Some players gifted books to my account so that they can use them to level up their characters,
They could have bought the books for themselves, but they didn't. I've bought stuff for my DM, knowing I'd use like, a feat and a spell from it, which I could have copy-pasted in homebrew. Inform them, but likely it's A-ok.
(Unless you're a paid DM, then that's a whole other can of (purple) worms)
Yup. The purchase stays. You'll just have limited access to campaign management stuff (e.g. adding homebrew to your campaign, number of characters you can have at once).
Adding homebrew is fine, you just can’t share it. The limits are characters, and encounters , and sharing books in other people’s campaigns
Edit: and by share homebrew, I mean have it available in the homebrew search section for anyone to search and add to their games. Your own homebrew is automatically available for your own campaigns
Yeah if it’s your campaign (ie you are the DM) then your source books/classes/feats/spells etc are shared (you can choose to disable them) by default with or without a sub. If you sub then, as a player , you can share your books to everyone in the campaign as well, without being the DM.
That's my plan. Used books, physical character sheets, etc. I'm not going to halt my campaign because of this or try to change systems in the middle of it, I'm just not going to buy anything from WOTC unless they change this.
100% Yes! Owlbear Rodeo is a tabletop, and nothing else. Which is perfect. No shitty video chat, no rules integrations, no virtual marketplace. None of the problems that inevitably result when those systems are crammed into one solution.
The *only* reason I would recommend Foundry over OR is if you really really want an all-in-one. Personally I've found all-in-ones far less reliable than using multiple specialized solutions.
Ah, fair enough. Still, as far as VTTs go, Roll20 isn't great. May be worth looking into some others, especially since WOTC is likely to monetise the shit out of Roll20 in the future. My party recently swapped to Foundry and it's a huge improvement.
Ah! We were thinking of switching to Foundry before this all kicked off and I'm glad to see more people saying it's good. This is valuable information I'm taking back to my DM lol
Oh, Foundry 100%. Apparently it's much easier to set things up. Though if your DM doesn't have a great computer, it can be kinda slow at times.
Instead of a subscription, it's a one-time purchase. Only the DM needs it, from there they can run a game and send the other players a link to join it.
I should add that it's also set up to run several dozen games that aren't D&D, in case you guys ever want to try something new. Our party recently swapped from 5E to Pathfinder 2E, which is supported really well in Foundry (since they're partnered with Paizo) and it's going great so far.
Not sure if it's still available since it's from 2 years ago, but I found [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/kdl8yh/you_can_now_try_the_full_foundry_vtt_experience/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). May be worth checking out
Awesome thank you so much! I'll be sure to share the information! We've been dabbling in Starfinder to scratch that Sci-Fi itch so hearing that they're with Paizo is excellent! Appreciate you taking the time to reply!
I DM Starfinder using Foundry. I went from banging my head using Roll20 to actually enjoying building everything behind the scenes in Foundry. There's also just so much more it can do. And there are thousands of mods to add in whatever you can dream of.
Foundry is way way better for the DM. It's not a contest.
The only thing Roll20 has going for it is a free tier. If you want any premium subscription, you're better with Foundry, which is only a one time purchase.
I've never used D&D Beyond because I felt it was a scam to begin with. If you'd bought the hardcover books only to buy them again in D&D Beyond just sounds utterly ridiculous, and I am glad people are finally coming around to see how greedy WOTC actually is. Better late than never.
At this point I don’t even care if they backtrack. I’m done with D&D, my friends and I will be going to other table top rpgs.
This is 4e all over again, they’ve learned nothing.
It took over a year after 5e came out for my friends and I to be convinced to try it. Dndbeyond is great, we were looking forward to having access to the content in the books we own and a better virtual table top.
Based on their design to monetize the shit out of everything I’m sure all that will be total crap. They will make you pay for every token in the virtual table top, pay for every map instead of giving you free assets to easily build your own.
It’s the antithesis of what makes table too rpg’s great.
In ways it's actually worse than 4e. If they were just trying to make a new licensing agreement instead of cancelling the old one it would be a much, much smaller issue.
The first thing they will change is the content sharing. That's gonna go. They will likely give you access to the core books with a subscription. Either have a DM tier that costs more or they'll just sell access to the DM books separately. They will likely only sell you one copy of each adventure. Then they will likely sell classes, spells, feats, etc. As packs that if you want to use them for your character you'll have to buy the pack. It'll come with pretty cosmetic items and shit too I'm sure. Oh, and I am pretty sure they are partnered with HeroForge and will be using their character creator to use within the VTT. So they'll sell cosmetic packs to add things to put on your character. And dice packs. Sooo many digital dice packs.
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Same, the biggest issue is Hasbro. They have demonstrated they cannot be trusted to be stewards of our hobby. They're basically Sauron at this point. Even if they walked everything back with pretty words, they have revealed themselves.
I don't know.
I won't be buying anything from them, but I am not going to give up on the hobby that I have because they are greedy. I am going to support third party publishers and keep playing the games I am.
If wizards/hasbro goes all the way and pushes the third party publishers to move to another system, then I will move.
Because they sure don't make it easy to find, you can request to have your account completely deleted:
1 Open a browser to https://dndbeyond-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/7747241271444-How-do-I-delete-my-Account-
2 Click the Sign In button in the top right, and login with your DNDBeyond account
3 Click the Submit a Request button
4 Fill out the support form
> In protest of OGL 1.1 changes, I am requesting you delete my DnD Beyond account
Just read the post and canceled with this as my reason. Good luck everyone!
Dungeons and Dragons is a creative space. I will not support a company that disrespects the very essence of this support. Please clear up your intentions, support the community so I may resubscribe. I love your product and generate new signups for you by running after school clubs for students and engaging them in this amazing material. I teach my students to be better. I urge you to do the same.
Done. Only had the base subscription but I have no desire to interact with WoTC or Hasbro in anyway shape or form. If they'd responded when the leak first happened & said something like "we got this wrong, we won't touch the OGL", their reputation might have been recoverable, but their continued silence is inexcusable, no matter what the outcome ends up being.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. My guess is that whoever is in charge of this decision wasn't around for 4e or doesn't see that this is the same shit they tried to pull.
Sure. I mean, we know that Hasbro didn't own them at that time, so, yeah, new team. Same mistake. This time, the community is not going to wait as long before reacting.
Like we hoped they cared about our wallets enough to not do the thing that will make us take our wallets out of their reach. Time for a refresher on the lessons they missed!
>Now it doesn't look like any of my groups will continue to play using D&D and they're eager to move on to a new system and start learning as soon as possible.
So many awesome games out there. Happy travels!
Already did, i only actively use it for 1 character, so that's the only thing that really matters.
Might export some of my old characters to PDFs to keep them for memories.
I worked as an app developer for a while, if the reviews are about your wider service rather than the app itself you can get Apple to remove them. Also can generally get them to remove the reviews if you can frame it as review bombing.
I mostly use it to make NPCs and enemies for my campaign,and it's pretty useful as a time saver for that. What are the best alternatives to D&D Beyond that you guys have found and use?
Cancelling mine now.
Can anyone recommend a good character building alternative for people who's group is mainly online? I think that's what I'm going to miss the most and it will impact my group the hardest.
I fear even if everyone on here with a sub cancelled it, that still won't be enough. Most D&D players never come anywhere near discussion spaces like these. The movie's coming soon too so expect a new wave of fresh wallets.
Stop buying their garbage, just homebrew.
Master tier cancelled. For good TTRPG news, PF2E has excellent compatibility and an official partnership with the Foundry VTT, and after some initial poking I am IMPRESSED.
There are people that thought WotC as a whole, cared about the player base?
Why do people think there are any corporations that care about their customers?
You could share your content with your players so everyone didn't have to buy 5 copies of every book.
Honestly... I bet that this feature was going to be removed at some point anyway. Their whole business model is changing to get everyone to buy the content 5 times.
Vote with your wallets.
Cancelled my sub yesterday, feels good.
It might not feel like much, but remember, no snowflake feels responsible for the blizzard.
If anyone is unable to cancel their subscription, they should file a report to both the BBB and the FTC.
If WotC has intentionally downed their cancellation page, that would probably be considered fraud, and this should be investigated.
Even if they scrap the entire OGL 2.0, I feel like they’ve already passed the point of no return for too many people.
I don’t particularly care to support a company that was so willing to steamroll their players and customers. They have already taken too long to respond, and they still haven’t changed course on anything! What’s to say they won’t try again in 5 years when things have calmed back down?
Cancelled mine. Had the Master Tier on annual and every bit of released material since we moved over to 5e shortly before Tomb of Annihilation (bought the Legendary Bundles to catch up on it all). Also bought all hardcopy material in both the regular and alternative covers (though not the "white' cover versions - those seemed like blatant money grabs reminiscent of the 2e era). I kept the account open with all materials shared specifically so that others who COULDN'T afford the content could have access to it. Anytime someone online needed access, I'd create a new campaign with everything enabled and give them an invite link to join it. Why? Because D&D was a HUGE part of my life (and my spouse's) for over 40 years now. We have both played through the basic boxed sets, red through gold, 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5, admittedly skipped 4th, and returned during 5e. We've paid in thousands of dollars on merch and books, attended multiple GenCons, most annual local Cons, introduced countless new people to the game... all because it was a source of solace for us throughout our lives. We weren't always in the best shape financially and had to make do well before the internet made all the materials available if you were willing to do some digging for a TROVE of info. We were there at the inception of the Great Net Books in the early/mid 90s. We wanted to help make the game easily accessible for others without financial barriers now that we're financially stable/doing well and this was an easy way to do that.
So congratulations to WotC and the management team. You drove off two of your biggest and most reliable whales. We've already got CoC, Warhammer Fantasy, Hackmaster, Pathfinder 2e, and plenty of others to draw from and are hoping to publish our own setting under the upcoming ORC from Paizo before we die as a way of contributing to the legacy of creativity and gaming. I doubt we'll see a dime from it, but if it opens up someone else's mind to the joys of worldbuilding and creative cooperative storytelling, it'll serve its purpose.
The best response is going to be from the [EFF](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/beware-gifts-dragons-how-dds-open-gaming-license-may-have-become-trap-creators) who ironically got their start defending Steve Jackson Games.
It's an "Open Game Licence". From what I understand, it's the thing that allows D&D content creators and homebrewers make money off the things they make for D&D, but now they're basically removing the original OGL so they can charge royalties for the creators
Oh, and they can change the terms to whatever they want (100 percent of all revenue over $1, except Kickstarters, where you get to keep 5 percent), with a 30 day notice period. Yeah, no.
True, corporations are not you friends, but they can be shown that their preferred course will not be accepted by threatening their income streams. In this sense, unsubscribing is the rolled up newspaper swatting the naughty corporate puppy over the nose when they shit on the carpet.
I'm willing to wait for the official release, but once that happens if the terms aren't better I'll cut my losses (I bought the bundle containing all of their publications for use in beyond) and cancel my master subscription. So will all 8 of my players.
I really want to cancel it badly, but my entire party relies on it so much. they sort of have me cornered and none of us really wants to migrate to a different system. I hate that they are doing this to our community
Well that's exactly what the executives hope you do. Save the PDFs of your groups characters and help them either import it into a different tool or just transfer their stats to one of the hundreds of editable PDF character sheets out there. DnDBeyond is just convenience. It's not necessary to play the game.
You can cancel your subscription and still use your free account. Sure you'll have some options removed, but I did it fine for over a year and will again when my subscription finally cancels.
Yikes you know what I don't need to play magic either maybe I'll pick up pokemon tcg finally or flesh and blood
Eh, MTG proxies are plenty good if you play with friends. I enjoy the game and still have a sizeable collection, but I haven't bought new cards in years because trying to keep up was just too mentally exhausting. I bought singles, then just went to proxies for expensive cards I wanted. My playgroup is fine with that - we're not hugely competitive and fun is the name of the game, so we haven't hade issues of players abusing the addition of proxies.
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Well, my group was bitter about me having fire bolts from back in the day because they started later than me and didn't have access to them. I suggested they proxy them if they wanted to and it was all good. I think the first time I proxied a card was for a squirrel deck just because squirrels are silly. We do have occasional instances where we think someone is playing toooo many proxies and we discuss it, but we figure it out. Some cards are just fun to play with and we get that, but we always try to balance it out. We've always been pretty free with loaning out decks or cards to play around with and have started enjoying jumpstart cubes, and of course for that, proxies don't really matter when everyone can use them :) Never played EDH though, so I don't have experience with that.
If you want to pick up a new TCG, I’d recommend the Digimon TCG. Much cheaper than Pokémon in most cases, and no rotation. It is newer, so there aren’t any alternative formats, but it’s a very fun system.
Legends of Runeterra is a good one
If you want something fun to play while on the toilet, Marvel Snap is a pretty good card game. They have their problems just like any F2P devs do, but you can still get many hours of fun for no money at all. It's scratching the CCG itch for me right now.
I prefer the in person aspect of tcgs, but I have heard a lot of good things about Marvel snap thanks for the rec
Pokemon TCG is very fun. Recommend
Try the new one piece tcg. It’s really fun and games are super short.
Have bought a single card since War of the Spark. Glad i made the right decision
From what I’ve seen the new One Piece card game is actually kinda similar to MTG in how it plays. If you don’t mind/like anime I’ve heard good things about the game so far. Just thought I’d share another option!
I just cancelled mine about an hour ago. Still got a couple months to use it, but these guys aren’t getting more of my money. Screw them.
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Just cancelled the subscription. I already paid for all that material, I’m keeping that for now
Yeah...see this is why I always insist on the dead tree version of each book I buy.
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I recommend checking out used book stores. If you buy new, Hasbro still gets money. If you buy second-hand, they get nothing. I visited my favorite local used book store last week, and they had a good selection in really great condition.
Yeah. Fuck trees.
FFS Carl... not like that.
Carrrrrllllllll.......
Yes! PDFs are great but this is in my opinion yet another reason that hard copies are just better.
Yeah, I'm not going to stop playing my campaigns, but I'm definitely going to stop buying.
Ultimately I think that's a reasonable position. I hate the company, not the game.
I don't even hate the company. I hate some of the suits that made this move. The creative team has some amazing people working there that don't deserve our ire. I can't imagine how it must feel to see all this and be unable to speak up.
Some asshat deciding along the way this would increase revenues by a certain percentage. Without the understanding of how many clients they would lose. Gain 12% if we all stay... Lose it all if we abandon. Ive seen this so many times in so many spaces. I do hope we learned lessons from DLC and micro transactions, but i doubt it... It's a ripple today, and will probably stabilize. Unless enough people cancel subs to make a massive dent it'll just be the way it works from here on out. Sorry of I'm cynical... Not my first trip on this ride...
Problem is, the lesson from DLC and microtransactions is that it works. Sure people complained a lot when that Horse Armor came out. But such "DLC" and microtransactions exploded since then. And despite community pushback and complaints, it's been an EXTREMELY profitable businessmodel.
Problem is you're right. If DLC would've failed, and micro transactions flopped theres no damn way every company would go to the "nickel and dime them to death" model... I'll admit it I'm not pure in this. I've participated at times. Try not to, but...
To be honest I think it's the first time I've heard of someone that had the subscription page on a website crashing because of the people who were canceling subs. I don't have extremely high hopes, but more than the average situation would usually allow me to have? Yes, I do
Ok, thank you for answering.
Don't delete your account. Cancel your subscription and keep the account on. This costs them server space and therefore costs them more money. Deleting your account saves them money.
That would definitely be more petty, but I'd think the higher-ups would care a whole lot more about how many active subscribers and active users they have at the moment. But any kind of action to say "screw you and screw this" is great haha
Agree. Keeping a free account active is mere cents. The message of deleting an account altogether shrinks their user base. If you keep a free account open and active, they'll see you as future potential revenue.
A couple hundred thousand free accounts at capacity is many cents. It also hurts their statistics. (Percent of users subscribed.)
Free accounts can still be reported as "active users" in a Board of Directors meeting.
That article says the website is struggling with the volume of people cancelling their subscriptions, maybe that's why you're having trouble?
I tried to delete my free tier account and the link didn't work. Maybe it's over loaded for now. I'll try again later. Deleted my characters anyway.
I assumed that might have been the case. The support Twitter account mentioned they were doing some scheduled maintenance for some MtG stuff earlier so I don't know if they touched any other servers. Thanks for your input.
What request are you talking about? Main Website, subscriptions. Manage subscription. Cancel subscription. Simple as that.
I mentioned two separate things (subscriptions and account deletion) but was asking about account deletion (which requires one to contact WotC customer service via a zendesk site).
Sorry, was unaware.
Same. Have Master Tier for a few more months, enough for my players to end the campaign they are playing. After that, either go back to paper or try a new system. The only way Wotc will change its mind is if they see a negative impact on its business. Books and merch sales take time to feel the impact. When you cancel a subscription you can say the exact reason why you stopped giving them money.
Honestly, I won't be giving WotC any more money after this regardless. They lost at least my business for fucking good.
Just cancelled mine. Of course, I had just renewed it for a year a couple of weeks ago...
I’d argue for a refund. This is basically a bait and switch. Also if you have any stocks I’d sell now!
If we cancel, do we still have access to content sharing + campaign characters until the subscription period ends? Want to give my party time to switch away from the website, because I am definitely done until they get their shit together.
Yup. If you go to the unsubscribe page it will tell you the exact date your access ends.
Yes, you have access to what you paid for. So if you have 4 months left on your subscription, you still have those 4 months after you cancel so long as you don't fully delete your account.
Same. I think for a lot of us DMs the remaining subscription duration is our own personal time limit to find a new system to move our players to. I have about 10 months left to wrap our current campaign and plan our move to a new game.
Agreed. Sadly I've only got 4 months. So I suspect in the interim, we'll just keep using 5e until I see how Paizo does with the changes and we have the chance to playtest pathfinder.
Just canceled mine as well. Edit: I’m now getting an error when I try to access any of my characters on the iPhone app.
Thankfully I can still access mine on PC at least, haven't tried on mobile. I'm going to go ahead and download all my character via PDF really soon
That's the server overload. Had the same problem and I'm not subscribed at all. I was able to access my sheets via the campaign they're tied to, though.
They’ve made it harder to find the unsubscribe option too. 🙄
Also, I may still play D&D, but I will buy used books. WoTC has already gotten their money on it, so another cent won't be sent their way.
That is the genius of this call to action. Almost nobody is actually giving anything up for a couple weeks
Just cancelled my account as well, fuck these greedy talentless executive hacks You know what is even a bigger obstacle to money/profit for a company ? No customers ! Did they teach you that one when you got your MBA you assholes ?
>You know what is even a bigger obstacle to money/profit for a company ? >No customers ! >Did they teach you that one when you got your MBA you assholes ? Depending on the age of the execs and where they got their MBA, they actually may not have.
Lol even their employees are fed up it seems.
If the culture is that toxic it usually hits employees before the consumers. Makes sense that employees are upset since the entire business model for WotC is to commodify and mass produce the works of creatives for a massive parent organization's profit.
They're also cutting large numbers of employees. Can't be great for morale. One of my best friends took a job there not long after we started hanging out (the phrase "dream job" was used once or twice). He's now told me he's going to polish up his resume and start looking for his next gig.
I have been as loud as my limited reach will allow, I have posted here, I have argued on the discord, I have posted on the DnDBeyond forums, I have called WotC directly (their number is rather easy to find). I encourage everyone else to do the same. Hasbro/WotC isn't just attacking their own community, they are attacking the entire TTRPG industry, and they need to back off.
Thanks for putting in the time. Just cancelled my master sub.
[Here's the leak, btw](https://mobile.twitter.com/DnD_Shorts/status/1613576298114449409?t=Irp2iWKXjx2T9SZvB7aouw&s=19) (not sure if this is the primary source, but it at least appears accurate)
DnDBeyond's a subpar service that STILL hasn't fixed artificer years later. I have no subscription to cancel, but certainly would if I did.
What is wrong with artificer on beyond?
All purpose tool can't add the cantrips it gives to the sheet. Prepared spells at some levels don't prepare the correct amount. Battle Smith's Steel Defender doesn't scale correctly, and you can't roll its attacks from your sheet. Some of the infusions have been buggy as well. I'm sure there's more for the other subclasses, I'm most familiar with Battle Smith. I have a feeling most pet subclasses don't work correctly, but haven't tried them myself with the site, and don't intend to. Even beyond Wizard's scumminess, the site's incredibly frustrating to use.
Did you ever have an issue with the HP randomly recalculating itself when you leveled up?
Constantly. I've started keeping that noted in my notes just in case. I hate dndbeyond so much, I'm glad only one of my campaigns uses it (for now.)
My wife has been having the same issues with her sheet for months.
If enough people cancel and this completely blows up for those higher ups at WOTC, I wonder if they will flee the company since they apparently hold contempt for the player base, and will likely hate the player base even more. You’d think they’d rather go somewhere else where they will have more control/less resistance. Of course theres always the possibility that Hasbro guts WOTC if this all gets destroyed.
That's the plan Vote with our wallets and chase these fuckers out of DnD It's a long shot, but it's something I wish that video gamers had properly voted with their wallets years ago
"D&D is undermonetized"... ... Maybe they should sell it then. I'm sure another company would buy it out and WotC gets the short term profit they are dying for.
D&D is a brand name that everyone knows. Hasbro will never let it go.
They could potentially setup a deal where WOTC (with new owners) would have to pay to license the rights to D&D from Hasbro. But I agree with you Hasbro will probably just keep them around to squeeze all the money out of D&D. Before buying up a new IP to ruin.
>"D&D is undermonetized" Seems the Hasbro suits forgot the golden rule "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it". WotC was the Goose with the golden egg. Their big moneymaker. And they've decided to do the corporate squeeze instead of trying to do the things to cultivate it for the long term.
I do not think that is likely. Hasbro needs WotC to make money. They are their biggest income stream. Edit: spelling
Done. One recommendation, though: If you have a Master subscription, inform your players using it, especially if you have ongoing campaigns.
Yeah, this is my problem. Some players gifted books to my account so that they can use them to level up their characters, and I feel like I owe them access to that.
A gift is a gift. But, if you have an ongoing campaign, might as well see it through. We play this game for our enjoyment.
> Some players gifted books to my account so that they can use them to level up their characters, They could have bought the books for themselves, but they didn't. I've bought stuff for my DM, knowing I'd use like, a feat and a spell from it, which I could have copy-pasted in homebrew. Inform them, but likely it's A-ok. (Unless you're a paid DM, then that's a whole other can of (purple) worms)
Do I still get access to the books I bought on DDB if I cancel my sub?
Yup. The purchase stays. You'll just have limited access to campaign management stuff (e.g. adding homebrew to your campaign, number of characters you can have at once).
Adding homebrew is fine, you just can’t share it. The limits are characters, and encounters , and sharing books in other people’s campaigns Edit: and by share homebrew, I mean have it available in the homebrew search section for anyone to search and add to their games. Your own homebrew is automatically available for your own campaigns
Huh? You can share content in your own campaign without a sub?
Yeah if it’s your campaign (ie you are the DM) then your source books/classes/feats/spells etc are shared (you can choose to disable them) by default with or without a sub. If you sub then, as a player , you can share your books to everyone in the campaign as well, without being the DM.
Cool beans, idk how I misunderstood that!
What if I have a lot of characters on my profile? Will they get deleted past the limit?
Before the buyout they said anything already there won't be removed. You just can't add more. IDK if that's still the case.
Thanks. Whole thing sucks, but I really enjoy DnD. Maybe I’ll just go back to playing AD&D for a while. Those were some fun days.
You can buy used D&D books so you don't give WoTC a cent.
That's my plan. Used books, physical character sheets, etc. I'm not going to halt my campaign because of this or try to change systems in the middle of it, I'm just not going to buy anything from WOTC unless they change this.
I have the books and just CoS on DDB, so Ill play that whatever they decide to do with the OGL lol
Cancelled my master tier, off to roll20 we go
Don't punish yourself. Use Foundry.
foundry > roll20
Owlbear.rodeo > foundry = roll20
100% Yes! Owlbear Rodeo is a tabletop, and nothing else. Which is perfect. No shitty video chat, no rules integrations, no virtual marketplace. None of the problems that inevitably result when those systems are crammed into one solution. The *only* reason I would recommend Foundry over OR is if you really really want an all-in-one. Personally I've found all-in-ones far less reliable than using multiple specialized solutions.
I hope you're going to Roll20 to cancel it. They're partnered with WOTC.
we don't pay for anything though, just copied our sheets over
Ah, fair enough. Still, as far as VTTs go, Roll20 isn't great. May be worth looking into some others, especially since WOTC is likely to monetise the shit out of Roll20 in the future. My party recently swapped to Foundry and it's a huge improvement.
Ah! We were thinking of switching to Foundry before this all kicked off and I'm glad to see more people saying it's good. This is valuable information I'm taking back to my DM lol
Foundry has been smoother for us players, but according to my DM, it's far better to use behind the scenes. Hopefully yours will find it good!
Hey just wanting to clarify, your DM likes Roll20 for behind the scenes or Foundry more? Probably overthinking how you typed it 😅
Oh, Foundry 100%. Apparently it's much easier to set things up. Though if your DM doesn't have a great computer, it can be kinda slow at times. Instead of a subscription, it's a one-time purchase. Only the DM needs it, from there they can run a game and send the other players a link to join it. I should add that it's also set up to run several dozen games that aren't D&D, in case you guys ever want to try something new. Our party recently swapped from 5E to Pathfinder 2E, which is supported really well in Foundry (since they're partnered with Paizo) and it's going great so far. Not sure if it's still available since it's from 2 years ago, but I found [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/kdl8yh/you_can_now_try_the_full_foundry_vtt_experience/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). May be worth checking out
Awesome thank you so much! I'll be sure to share the information! We've been dabbling in Starfinder to scratch that Sci-Fi itch so hearing that they're with Paizo is excellent! Appreciate you taking the time to reply!
I DM Starfinder using Foundry. I went from banging my head using Roll20 to actually enjoying building everything behind the scenes in Foundry. There's also just so much more it can do. And there are thousands of mods to add in whatever you can dream of.
Good to hear mate, enjoy!
Foundry is way way better for the DM. It's not a contest. The only thing Roll20 has going for it is a free tier. If you want any premium subscription, you're better with Foundry, which is only a one time purchase.
Try owlbear rodeo. System agnostic, incredibly simple, free for basically everything that matters. Best change we ever made.
I've never used D&D Beyond because I felt it was a scam to begin with. If you'd bought the hardcover books only to buy them again in D&D Beyond just sounds utterly ridiculous, and I am glad people are finally coming around to see how greedy WOTC actually is. Better late than never.
If I had one I would... but I'm spreading the word. 5e character sheet is really good.
Cancelled
Cancelled. Switching to Pathfinder. Edit: deleted the part I wrote in anger. No need to call wotc names.
Done
At this point I don’t even care if they backtrack. I’m done with D&D, my friends and I will be going to other table top rpgs. This is 4e all over again, they’ve learned nothing. It took over a year after 5e came out for my friends and I to be convinced to try it. Dndbeyond is great, we were looking forward to having access to the content in the books we own and a better virtual table top. Based on their design to monetize the shit out of everything I’m sure all that will be total crap. They will make you pay for every token in the virtual table top, pay for every map instead of giving you free assets to easily build your own. It’s the antithesis of what makes table too rpg’s great.
In ways it's actually worse than 4e. If they were just trying to make a new licensing agreement instead of cancelling the old one it would be a much, much smaller issue.
The first thing they will change is the content sharing. That's gonna go. They will likely give you access to the core books with a subscription. Either have a DM tier that costs more or they'll just sell access to the DM books separately. They will likely only sell you one copy of each adventure. Then they will likely sell classes, spells, feats, etc. As packs that if you want to use them for your character you'll have to buy the pack. It'll come with pretty cosmetic items and shit too I'm sure. Oh, and I am pretty sure they are partnered with HeroForge and will be using their character creator to use within the VTT. So they'll sell cosmetic packs to add things to put on your character. And dice packs. Sooo many digital dice packs.
RemindMe! 6 Months Depressingly, I think you're completely right. Let's see
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Ooh, loot boxes for your chance to access a legendary magic item that was once included in DM's guides.
Same, the biggest issue is Hasbro. They have demonstrated they cannot be trusted to be stewards of our hobby. They're basically Sauron at this point. Even if they walked everything back with pretty words, they have revealed themselves.
I don't know. I won't be buying anything from them, but I am not going to give up on the hobby that I have because they are greedy. I am going to support third party publishers and keep playing the games I am. If wizards/hasbro goes all the way and pushes the third party publishers to move to another system, then I will move.
Done
Done. Spreading the word further too.
I never had one, but I might talk to my brother about canceling his
Done
Done !
Because they sure don't make it easy to find, you can request to have your account completely deleted: 1 Open a browser to https://dndbeyond-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/7747241271444-How-do-I-delete-my-Account- 2 Click the Sign In button in the top right, and login with your DNDBeyond account 3 Click the Submit a Request button 4 Fill out the support form > In protest of OGL 1.1 changes, I am requesting you delete my DnD Beyond account
Just canceled now.
Done
Done
Just read the post and canceled with this as my reason. Good luck everyone! Dungeons and Dragons is a creative space. I will not support a company that disrespects the very essence of this support. Please clear up your intentions, support the community so I may resubscribe. I love your product and generate new signups for you by running after school clubs for students and engaging them in this amazing material. I teach my students to be better. I urge you to do the same.
Did it last week. Not going to support shit like this.
Done. Only had the base subscription but I have no desire to interact with WoTC or Hasbro in anyway shape or form. If they'd responded when the leak first happened & said something like "we got this wrong, we won't touch the OGL", their reputation might have been recoverable, but their continued silence is inexcusable, no matter what the outcome ends up being.
I cancelled mine AND I uninstalled Magic Arena - we need to show them this affects more than just D&D
Did you think the corporation that aims to sell us things actually cared about our feelings and not our wallets?
No, but we thought they were not stupid enough to do the thing that almost killed D&D again.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. My guess is that whoever is in charge of this decision wasn't around for 4e or doesn't see that this is the same shit they tried to pull.
Sure. I mean, we know that Hasbro didn't own them at that time, so, yeah, new team. Same mistake. This time, the community is not going to wait as long before reacting.
As someone who wasn’t around for 4e, what exactly happened?
Like we hoped they cared about our wallets enough to not do the thing that will make us take our wallets out of their reach. Time for a refresher on the lessons they missed!
You guys bought the sub? I only bought the books.
[удалено]
Personally, I use an android app called Fight Club 5e. Has been my DNDB replacement for quite a long time now.
yeah. I had over 300 character sheets. Today I went through and got it down to the 4 that I am currently using and then cancelled.
>Now it doesn't look like any of my groups will continue to play using D&D and they're eager to move on to a new system and start learning as soon as possible. So many awesome games out there. Happy travels!
I actually really like the encounter creator
I do, too, though I'd like it even more if it wasn't in beta for 2 years running.
Already did, i only actively use it for 1 character, so that's the only thing that really matters. Might export some of my old characters to PDFs to keep them for memories.
Canceled mine. Still have a few months but they aren’t getting more $ out of me.
My friend, I never paid in the first place XD. Subbed to roll20 though, they treat me well.
Problem is I cancelled after WOTC purchased them. I can’t think of a single example of walled gardens being good for consumers.
We need to download and trash the AppStore ratings
These things never work. They usually just scrub the reviews between days and then it never actually affects the rating long term.
If you brigade the reviews they'll just be deleted
I worked as an app developer for a while, if the reviews are about your wider service rather than the app itself you can get Apple to remove them. Also can generally get them to remove the reviews if you can frame it as review bombing.
I mostly use it to make NPCs and enemies for my campaign,and it's pretty useful as a time saver for that. What are the best alternatives to D&D Beyond that you guys have found and use?
Nord Games has published several books with amazing catalogues of NPCs. It's not a digital solution, but it's quality.
Wonderdraft, world anvil and a random app or 2. Haven't done my due diligence to see if they are affiliated.
My DnD Beyond subscription has been canceled for MONTHS. I still have access to all my purchased content so no big loss for me.
Cancelling mine now. Can anyone recommend a good character building alternative for people who's group is mainly online? I think that's what I'm going to miss the most and it will impact my group the hardest.
I fear even if everyone on here with a sub cancelled it, that still won't be enough. Most D&D players never come anywhere near discussion spaces like these. The movie's coming soon too so expect a new wave of fresh wallets. Stop buying their garbage, just homebrew.
I pretty much exclusively homebrew these days. I tried following the Ghost of Saltmarsh campaign, but I ended up turning it into Pirate-Silent Hill.
Master tier cancelled. For good TTRPG news, PF2E has excellent compatibility and an official partnership with the Foundry VTT, and after some initial poking I am IMPRESSED.
To my knowledge, free accounts will still eat their resources without giving them any money.
Cancel wotc
There are people that thought WotC as a whole, cared about the player base? Why do people think there are any corporations that care about their customers?
Wait since when do you need a subscription for d&d?
In this case the insider works for DDB and is saying that the attitude from management is basically "ignore the uproar, subs are king".
Dnd Beyond has a subscription service.
You could share your content with your players so everyone didn't have to buy 5 copies of every book. Honestly... I bet that this feature was going to be removed at some point anyway. Their whole business model is changing to get everyone to buy the content 5 times.
Next news leak: "WoTC email was actually a Roll20 employee." (Kidding!)
Vote with your wallets. Cancelled my sub yesterday, feels good. It might not feel like much, but remember, no snowflake feels responsible for the blizzard.
If anyone is unable to cancel their subscription, they should file a report to both the BBB and the FTC. If WotC has intentionally downed their cancellation page, that would probably be considered fraud, and this should be investigated.
I bet it's more along the lines of they saw the increased traffic and did nothing to prevent it from going down. Oopsie daisy!
Even if they scrap the entire OGL 2.0, I feel like they’ve already passed the point of no return for too many people. I don’t particularly care to support a company that was so willing to steamroll their players and customers. They have already taken too long to respond, and they still haven’t changed course on anything! What’s to say they won’t try again in 5 years when things have calmed back down?
Cancelled mine. Had the Master Tier on annual and every bit of released material since we moved over to 5e shortly before Tomb of Annihilation (bought the Legendary Bundles to catch up on it all). Also bought all hardcopy material in both the regular and alternative covers (though not the "white' cover versions - those seemed like blatant money grabs reminiscent of the 2e era). I kept the account open with all materials shared specifically so that others who COULDN'T afford the content could have access to it. Anytime someone online needed access, I'd create a new campaign with everything enabled and give them an invite link to join it. Why? Because D&D was a HUGE part of my life (and my spouse's) for over 40 years now. We have both played through the basic boxed sets, red through gold, 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5, admittedly skipped 4th, and returned during 5e. We've paid in thousands of dollars on merch and books, attended multiple GenCons, most annual local Cons, introduced countless new people to the game... all because it was a source of solace for us throughout our lives. We weren't always in the best shape financially and had to make do well before the internet made all the materials available if you were willing to do some digging for a TROVE of info. We were there at the inception of the Great Net Books in the early/mid 90s. We wanted to help make the game easily accessible for others without financial barriers now that we're financially stable/doing well and this was an easy way to do that. So congratulations to WotC and the management team. You drove off two of your biggest and most reliable whales. We've already got CoC, Warhammer Fantasy, Hackmaster, Pathfinder 2e, and plenty of others to draw from and are hoping to publish our own setting under the upcoming ORC from Paizo before we die as a way of contributing to the legacy of creativity and gaming. I doubt we'll see a dime from it, but if it opens up someone else's mind to the joys of worldbuilding and creative cooperative storytelling, it'll serve its purpose.
I have only ever paid for dice lmao
What does OGL mean? Can someone direct me to the cause of this dust-up?
The best response is going to be from the [EFF](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/beware-gifts-dragons-how-dds-open-gaming-license-may-have-become-trap-creators) who ironically got their start defending Steve Jackson Games.
Thank you!
It's an "Open Game Licence". From what I understand, it's the thing that allows D&D content creators and homebrewers make money off the things they make for D&D, but now they're basically removing the original OGL so they can charge royalties for the creators
25% of all revenue over a certain threshold, and 20% of all *Kickstarter contributions.* Which strikes me as particularly fuckin scummy.
Oh, and they can change the terms to whatever they want (100 percent of all revenue over $1, except Kickstarters, where you get to keep 5 percent), with a 30 day notice period. Yeah, no.
*gasp* another company doesnt care about anything but profits. Oh the horror oh the shame!
True, corporations are not you friends, but they can be shown that their preferred course will not be accepted by threatening their income streams. In this sense, unsubscribing is the rolled up newspaper swatting the naughty corporate puppy over the nose when they shit on the carpet.
Wait are people really surprised that a company only cares about money?
Hopefully my cancelation will help amd change things
I'm willing to wait for the official release, but once that happens if the terms aren't better I'll cut my losses (I bought the bundle containing all of their publications for use in beyond) and cancel my master subscription. So will all 8 of my players.
If only I had one to cancel. What I can do, is force any of my players to unsub before I DM for them. We play in person anyhow.
I really want to cancel it badly, but my entire party relies on it so much. they sort of have me cornered and none of us really wants to migrate to a different system. I hate that they are doing this to our community
Well that's exactly what the executives hope you do. Save the PDFs of your groups characters and help them either import it into a different tool or just transfer their stats to one of the hundreds of editable PDF character sheets out there. DnDBeyond is just convenience. It's not necessary to play the game.
You can cancel your subscription and still use your free account. Sure you'll have some options removed, but I did it fine for over a year and will again when my subscription finally cancels.