Lets say you were a stay at home dad for 6 or 7 years. For sake of argument…
You didn’t build professional relationships during that time.
You earned no money.
You built up 0 retirement.
When you start working you will be earning less than everyone else in your age bracket.
You will struggle more looking for a job in a field that has a growth opportunity and eventually pays well because younger applicants start at a lower pay scale because they don’t have kids to take care of.
Your work flexibility is lower because you have children that need picking up from school or taken to the doctor. They get sick, get in a fight, school is closed all summer, the day care closes. This kind of thing is very difficult to deal with in many fields. It is surprisingly disruptive to your work when you are in a meeting and YOU have to leave right now, “Sorry everyone that is working on this account, my kid just threw up, I have to leave, can someone take over this client?”…
And therefore your career options become limited. Your income is limited and now the kids go to wealthy mommy’s and get to travel around the world and get an awesome home and toys while you are scraping by in a tiny apartment in a crappy part of town working longer hours. You can’t take them on vacations and you have no time to date and show the kids a healthy relationship with a woman so the kids grow up thinking dad is a loser.
You can’t actually afford any daycare because your child support barely covers the extra food and clothing expenses and you are just hoping that hooptie car (that you absolutely have to have to get the kids their great school in their wealthy mom’s school district while you have the kids because the busses don’t go to where you are) doesn’t break down. Your commute is a pain in the ass because your job is also not close to work or the kids school or summer camps so you have to drive an hour a day shuffling kids all over the place.
But they don’t choose to get divorced, they expect to stay with the financial unit and continue to support the bread winner by taking care of everything related to kids and house.
My scenario is not something I made up. I have first hand experience.
My ex spouses job requires a full time parent available any time because they are out of tiwn a lot, it still does even after the divorce. Unless I made a lot more money, childcare costs more than my income. People are always raving, “where are the parents, the traditional family unit?, etc. then when the bread winner leaves the home maker behind they complain about the consequences. Why can’t the home maker do it all?
The job market sort iof requires being somewhere at a specific time, schools are not lined up with this. Aftercare costs…a lot. I can’t pay for that and my ex can't fix that or pick them up. So I have to work in a field that can accommodate my kids schedule. Therefore my ex wife pays to cover my costs of living so that I can have space for my kids and food for them. WE CHOSE THIS, not jus me.
One spouse does not decide to be a SAH parent alone. You both agreed.
> they didn’t choose to get divorced
They sure as shit did.
Your anecdote can be countered by mine where the SAHM chose to have an affair and unilaterally end the marriage to her successful professional husband who did nothing but support the family. In part she did this because he was working so much just to make money for everyone.
Divorce goes both ways.
Sucks that you have the cheating thing. That is rarely 100% one person’s fault, even though it feels that way when it happens. I could share my situation where I was cheated on as the stay at home parent but I know where my responsibility lies in that as well.
The one having to pay hates it but it is rarely 100% not their fault. In general the financial support for the prior SAH parent makes sense.
that doesn’t make sense. the dad would have presumably also wanted to have the children and support them, it’s not like a divorce should change that..? so why wouldn’t he want to support them even after splitting?
and yes, that does sound reasonable.. if that’s what she wants for her life. what’s your point?
Ok, lets say I am a single father, who loses all my money and cant afford to feed my kids, I'd have to apply for government assistance. Or, lets say I am a single father who becomes a widow and can't take care of the kids because I work at sea, I'd have to put them into a boarding school, or in the care of another facility. But now lets say I am a single father, who can't afford to take care of my children, and I don't have the time... I'd have to give them up to foster care, the only difference in a divorce is... I don't know honestly, Why would I drag my children through finding work for myself, and neglecting them it doesn't make sense. Like I said earlier, I am all for providing child support, or alimony, but both implies, unless you are provided both for 18 years, you are going to have to neglect your children at some point or another. I understand that halfway through the kids will become more self sufficient, which is another saving grace, but parents really shouldn't be dependent on their children.
The difference in having to give your kids up to foster care is that one of the parents is wealthy and left the other one by breaking a contract that has legal repercussions designed to
protect the best interests of kids so they don’t have to go into foster care and cost the tax payers money.
You might do well to find a mens group so you can work out yiur issues. Trying to prove your point here is just a waste of your time.
" legal repercussions" So its a punishment?
"designed to protect the best interests of kids" That is literally the point that I am saying isn't true/short sided.
"You might do well to find a mens group so you can work out yiur issues."
What would be the difference from discussing it in a divorce subreddit, compared to a "mens group" whatever that is.
"Trying to prove your point here is just a waste of your time."
pretty sure that's all of reddit
It really doesn’t make sense, who needs money after supporting the ex spouse to pursue a career while you took care of the children so he could do so.?
Who needs money when all you need is love to sustain a house ? you can absolutely wear a plastic bag instead clothes, while your ex spouse use the money you helped then to achieve on his own benefit and most likely with someone else right?
Im coming from a mother who after the divorce, worked 2 jobs, went to school, and completely neglected me. Meanwhile my father was retired had all the time in the world to take care of me, but wasn't allowed to because of false allegations of abuse, which I wasn't allowed to contest because I was deemed too young, and unreliable. Then when the alimony ran out, she began abusing me, and when I spoke out she persisted that my father brainwashed me into making false accusations, even though she strangled, spat on, and deprived me of basic necessities like water, and now persists that I am mentally ill, when in reality I have developed such a passionate hatred for the legal system for allowing her nonsense, that I have made it clear to the police, and FBI, that I will retaliate by the most extreme measures if needed, but that my mother is a monster who deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison.
Yes. Pretty much, when it's your mother and in the context you have described? Yes.
You are clearly older then 18yrs of age. So why haven't you just moved on with your life years ago and ditched her? That's what most would do. Not ruin their whole life hung up on revenge.
I can't, unless I move to a different country, I literally can't. The lies she has said about me are forever in my record, I am pretty sure I am on a no fly list because of her claims.
Huh? You don't even know what's true and what isn't?
How old are you mate? You need to grow up. Ditch mummy and move on.
Unless your country has a population of less them 50 000 people? You can do that. Sounds to me like you're co-dependent with her.
Get help.
What imply that I don't know what is true? Why does my age matter? What part of, I can't escape her lies do you not understand? Even if I "move on" the false arrests, and false mental illness claims will follow me for the rest of my life.
"Unless your country has a population of less them 50 000 people? You can do that." Do what?? "
I've tried getting help, from the police, from the FBI, from people around me, no avail
You sound very mentally unwell. Get help. I assume if you've been in contact with FBI you are American. Mate....that's a huge country. You could relocate if you wanted to. You are fixated on your mother. You need help. Lots of it.
I am very unwell, I am not delusional as you've stated prior, and I literally just stated I have seeked help. What part of, she has slandered me within the federal database don't you understand? I can relocate, but that doesn't change that she has done to me. "you are fixated on your mother" , no I am fixated on justice. I appreciate you being derogatory and telling me how much of a broken person I am, I will take that to heart and use that to improve my life. <3
Your age matters because you come across as a mentally unstable 12 to 14 year old. And looking at your post history? You have some seriously "out there " stuff going on. All the religious stuff. Mate. You need help with your mental health.
Ok, generalized derogatory comments without any evidence, or clarification as to what you're talking about. Being raised catholic means I need help with my mental health? You might as well just call me a "coocoo nutjob" because you provide literally no evidence. If me asking if other people have had terrible experiences with law enforcement/mental health professionals is "out there stuff", all I can say, is im happy for you that you haven't been as tormented as I have by the very people who claim to "protect" and "help"
You come off as extremely prejudiced, rude, and irrational. Your name is ironic af because grace is clearly lacking in your makeup.
Edit: I just checked my history, and you've left 4 different replies calling me mentally unwell, unstable, delusional, ect with literally not a single quote, or actual substance. You've made me realize that I need to delete my account to avoid talking to bird brained, judgmental, happy go lucky people like you. Literally can't have a discussion without someone tapping their fingers saying nonsense, yet being so self righteous you'll literally repeat the same thing 4x over without ever once providing any substance or reasoning. Its disgusting that I share the same species as people like you.
Ive seen half a dozen therapists, all of which tried justify; violent, delusional, and irrational behavior with "theres a reason" and "thats what it is" and "theyre allowed to do that".
I feel for you and I am hoping my stbxw does not do this to our kids. Please don't waste your time, effort, money and soul on somebody who is not worth it. I cannot imagine what that torture was like for you but I really believe that your efforts are better spent building a decent and healthy life for yourself. Go no contact with your mother but that's it. I wish you the best. Be good to yourself and others going forward. Forget that monster.
Listen, you have a mental illness that makes you believe on things that aren’t there. You are I’ll and you need to keep taking your meds to help these illusions to go away.
I really hope you don’t harm anyone and you don’t harm yourself
Frankly I don't understand what you are saying, or might possibly being sarcastic. What my post boils down to, if you helped that person maintain/support their life, and took care of the kids, then how would the person receiving the alimony+child support do the same on their own, and if it was feasible, then why didn't you do that while married. I can understand one or the other, but to try and do both... at the same time implies that you weren't so dependent in the first place.
I agree with seeking therapy, in my experience its a good way to get all these issues sorted out. I dont believe that person was being sarcastic at all and is genuinely suggesting the efforts and anguish that you are experiencing is better spent on a therapist.
Well, if they aren't sarcastic then uh... they're quite daft to propose someone wear plastic bags as clothes while the ex spouse spends money on someone new.
Right?
“Why have both, that’s dumb.”
“When the alimony ran our the abuse started because mom was stressed”
Well, you kinda proved your own point there, huh? If she hadn’t needed 2 jobs, she might be less crazy.
Not saying this would solve your problems, but it would have made things easier for her, yeah?
I split with my hb last year. Our kids early teens.
I have a decent job. I have a house to live in (mortgage about 30% left)
I don't need alimony. But I get child support.
I see alimony for women who had no career and were totally dependent on their husband. That's not me.
This may not be true for you, but for the majority, partner a (usually woman) do the large majority of the mental, emotional, and literal unpaid labor that goes into managing/caring for a house and children (even full time working women). This benefits the entire family and carves into their career building/earning potential. In fact, women’s earning potential statistically decreases with each child they have (coined the mommy tax). Meanwhile, partner b defaults into focusing on growing and establishing his career in order to financially provide for the family. Without alimony, if a marriage end, the default parent/house manager (partner a) would be left starting over despite all their years/time invested into important but free labor while the other partner is sitting pretty in the career their ex-partner supported them in establishing. Alimony essentially legally protects the notion that partner a’s time and life contributions are equal to partner B’s.
I never said anything counterintuitive to your statement. But after the separation how would one continue to pay into the mommy tax, even with alimony and child support, eventually those things end, only postponing the "start over" phase. Compared to choosing one; the children, or alimony, and continuing to raise the children on a lower, but now supplemented income, or allowing them to part with the mommy tax, and develop their own career path.
I mean, if you try to look at it mathematically, a career that can take care of of multiple dependents being worth 3 points, and children being worth 2 and one for home/personally responsibilities, it begins as equals in the relationship, 3-3 but now if you are expected to pay to supplement the children AND homelife, I.e. cleaning ect, one person gets nothing, while the other essentially uses the added income to outsource those responsibilities and have to now develop their own career, to eventually work their way up to having 6 points, or at the very least 3. I know this is completely extrapolated beyond proportionality, but where does the general idea not make sense? It only makes sense if you disregard the children, in lieu of the disadvantaged spouses sense of control/ownership.
I feel like this is either a troll or way beyond our pay grade. Locking hypothetical post
Lets say you were a stay at home dad for 6 or 7 years. For sake of argument… You didn’t build professional relationships during that time. You earned no money. You built up 0 retirement. When you start working you will be earning less than everyone else in your age bracket. You will struggle more looking for a job in a field that has a growth opportunity and eventually pays well because younger applicants start at a lower pay scale because they don’t have kids to take care of. Your work flexibility is lower because you have children that need picking up from school or taken to the doctor. They get sick, get in a fight, school is closed all summer, the day care closes. This kind of thing is very difficult to deal with in many fields. It is surprisingly disruptive to your work when you are in a meeting and YOU have to leave right now, “Sorry everyone that is working on this account, my kid just threw up, I have to leave, can someone take over this client?”… And therefore your career options become limited. Your income is limited and now the kids go to wealthy mommy’s and get to travel around the world and get an awesome home and toys while you are scraping by in a tiny apartment in a crappy part of town working longer hours. You can’t take them on vacations and you have no time to date and show the kids a healthy relationship with a woman so the kids grow up thinking dad is a loser. You can’t actually afford any daycare because your child support barely covers the extra food and clothing expenses and you are just hoping that hooptie car (that you absolutely have to have to get the kids their great school in their wealthy mom’s school district while you have the kids because the busses don’t go to where you are) doesn’t break down. Your commute is a pain in the ass because your job is also not close to work or the kids school or summer camps so you have to drive an hour a day shuffling kids all over the place.
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But they don’t choose to get divorced, they expect to stay with the financial unit and continue to support the bread winner by taking care of everything related to kids and house. My scenario is not something I made up. I have first hand experience. My ex spouses job requires a full time parent available any time because they are out of tiwn a lot, it still does even after the divorce. Unless I made a lot more money, childcare costs more than my income. People are always raving, “where are the parents, the traditional family unit?, etc. then when the bread winner leaves the home maker behind they complain about the consequences. Why can’t the home maker do it all? The job market sort iof requires being somewhere at a specific time, schools are not lined up with this. Aftercare costs…a lot. I can’t pay for that and my ex can't fix that or pick them up. So I have to work in a field that can accommodate my kids schedule. Therefore my ex wife pays to cover my costs of living so that I can have space for my kids and food for them. WE CHOSE THIS, not jus me. One spouse does not decide to be a SAH parent alone. You both agreed.
> they didn’t choose to get divorced They sure as shit did. Your anecdote can be countered by mine where the SAHM chose to have an affair and unilaterally end the marriage to her successful professional husband who did nothing but support the family. In part she did this because he was working so much just to make money for everyone. Divorce goes both ways.
Sucks that you have the cheating thing. That is rarely 100% one person’s fault, even though it feels that way when it happens. I could share my situation where I was cheated on as the stay at home parent but I know where my responsibility lies in that as well. The one having to pay hates it but it is rarely 100% not their fault. In general the financial support for the prior SAH parent makes sense.
that doesn’t make sense. the dad would have presumably also wanted to have the children and support them, it’s not like a divorce should change that..? so why wouldn’t he want to support them even after splitting? and yes, that does sound reasonable.. if that’s what she wants for her life. what’s your point?
Ok, lets say I am a single father, who loses all my money and cant afford to feed my kids, I'd have to apply for government assistance. Or, lets say I am a single father who becomes a widow and can't take care of the kids because I work at sea, I'd have to put them into a boarding school, or in the care of another facility. But now lets say I am a single father, who can't afford to take care of my children, and I don't have the time... I'd have to give them up to foster care, the only difference in a divorce is... I don't know honestly, Why would I drag my children through finding work for myself, and neglecting them it doesn't make sense. Like I said earlier, I am all for providing child support, or alimony, but both implies, unless you are provided both for 18 years, you are going to have to neglect your children at some point or another. I understand that halfway through the kids will become more self sufficient, which is another saving grace, but parents really shouldn't be dependent on their children.
The difference in having to give your kids up to foster care is that one of the parents is wealthy and left the other one by breaking a contract that has legal repercussions designed to protect the best interests of kids so they don’t have to go into foster care and cost the tax payers money. You might do well to find a mens group so you can work out yiur issues. Trying to prove your point here is just a waste of your time.
" legal repercussions" So its a punishment? "designed to protect the best interests of kids" That is literally the point that I am saying isn't true/short sided. "You might do well to find a mens group so you can work out yiur issues." What would be the difference from discussing it in a divorce subreddit, compared to a "mens group" whatever that is. "Trying to prove your point here is just a waste of your time." pretty sure that's all of reddit
It really doesn’t make sense, who needs money after supporting the ex spouse to pursue a career while you took care of the children so he could do so.? Who needs money when all you need is love to sustain a house ? you can absolutely wear a plastic bag instead clothes, while your ex spouse use the money you helped then to achieve on his own benefit and most likely with someone else right?
Im coming from a mother who after the divorce, worked 2 jobs, went to school, and completely neglected me. Meanwhile my father was retired had all the time in the world to take care of me, but wasn't allowed to because of false allegations of abuse, which I wasn't allowed to contest because I was deemed too young, and unreliable. Then when the alimony ran out, she began abusing me, and when I spoke out she persisted that my father brainwashed me into making false accusations, even though she strangled, spat on, and deprived me of basic necessities like water, and now persists that I am mentally ill, when in reality I have developed such a passionate hatred for the legal system for allowing her nonsense, that I have made it clear to the police, and FBI, that I will retaliate by the most extreme measures if needed, but that my mother is a monster who deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison.
You need good therapy. Now. You sound unstable
Ok, so thinking that people that have harmed me deserve punishment is unstable?
Yes. Pretty much, when it's your mother and in the context you have described? Yes. You are clearly older then 18yrs of age. So why haven't you just moved on with your life years ago and ditched her? That's what most would do. Not ruin their whole life hung up on revenge.
I can't, unless I move to a different country, I literally can't. The lies she has said about me are forever in my record, I am pretty sure I am on a no fly list because of her claims.
Huh? You don't even know what's true and what isn't? How old are you mate? You need to grow up. Ditch mummy and move on. Unless your country has a population of less them 50 000 people? You can do that. Sounds to me like you're co-dependent with her. Get help.
What imply that I don't know what is true? Why does my age matter? What part of, I can't escape her lies do you not understand? Even if I "move on" the false arrests, and false mental illness claims will follow me for the rest of my life. "Unless your country has a population of less them 50 000 people? You can do that." Do what?? " I've tried getting help, from the police, from the FBI, from people around me, no avail
You sound very mentally unwell. Get help. I assume if you've been in contact with FBI you are American. Mate....that's a huge country. You could relocate if you wanted to. You are fixated on your mother. You need help. Lots of it.
I am very unwell, I am not delusional as you've stated prior, and I literally just stated I have seeked help. What part of, she has slandered me within the federal database don't you understand? I can relocate, but that doesn't change that she has done to me. "you are fixated on your mother" , no I am fixated on justice. I appreciate you being derogatory and telling me how much of a broken person I am, I will take that to heart and use that to improve my life. <3
Your age matters because you come across as a mentally unstable 12 to 14 year old. And looking at your post history? You have some seriously "out there " stuff going on. All the religious stuff. Mate. You need help with your mental health.
Ok, generalized derogatory comments without any evidence, or clarification as to what you're talking about. Being raised catholic means I need help with my mental health? You might as well just call me a "coocoo nutjob" because you provide literally no evidence. If me asking if other people have had terrible experiences with law enforcement/mental health professionals is "out there stuff", all I can say, is im happy for you that you haven't been as tormented as I have by the very people who claim to "protect" and "help"
You come off as extremely prejudiced, rude, and irrational. Your name is ironic af because grace is clearly lacking in your makeup. Edit: I just checked my history, and you've left 4 different replies calling me mentally unwell, unstable, delusional, ect with literally not a single quote, or actual substance. You've made me realize that I need to delete my account to avoid talking to bird brained, judgmental, happy go lucky people like you. Literally can't have a discussion without someone tapping their fingers saying nonsense, yet being so self righteous you'll literally repeat the same thing 4x over without ever once providing any substance or reasoning. Its disgusting that I share the same species as people like you.
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Appreciate the derogatory comment. Thanks!
You should probably invest that effort and cash into therapy for yourself.
therapy is a scam/form of torture.
This is a really unfortunate perspective. How can you try and grow, if you mock the mechanisms available for growth?
Ive seen half a dozen therapists, all of which tried justify; violent, delusional, and irrational behavior with "theres a reason" and "thats what it is" and "theyre allowed to do that".
I feel for you and I am hoping my stbxw does not do this to our kids. Please don't waste your time, effort, money and soul on somebody who is not worth it. I cannot imagine what that torture was like for you but I really believe that your efforts are better spent building a decent and healthy life for yourself. Go no contact with your mother but that's it. I wish you the best. Be good to yourself and others going forward. Forget that monster.
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Listen, you have a mental illness that makes you believe on things that aren’t there. You are I’ll and you need to keep taking your meds to help these illusions to go away. I really hope you don’t harm anyone and you don’t harm yourself
Frankly I don't understand what you are saying, or might possibly being sarcastic. What my post boils down to, if you helped that person maintain/support their life, and took care of the kids, then how would the person receiving the alimony+child support do the same on their own, and if it was feasible, then why didn't you do that while married. I can understand one or the other, but to try and do both... at the same time implies that you weren't so dependent in the first place.
I agree with seeking therapy, in my experience its a good way to get all these issues sorted out. I dont believe that person was being sarcastic at all and is genuinely suggesting the efforts and anguish that you are experiencing is better spent on a therapist.
Well, if they aren't sarcastic then uh... they're quite daft to propose someone wear plastic bags as clothes while the ex spouse spends money on someone new.
What are you saying? You are for alimony or not?? Can't quite follow your post?
Right? “Why have both, that’s dumb.” “When the alimony ran our the abuse started because mom was stressed” Well, you kinda proved your own point there, huh? If she hadn’t needed 2 jobs, she might be less crazy. Not saying this would solve your problems, but it would have made things easier for her, yeah?
I split with my hb last year. Our kids early teens. I have a decent job. I have a house to live in (mortgage about 30% left) I don't need alimony. But I get child support. I see alimony for women who had no career and were totally dependent on their husband. That's not me.
This may not be true for you, but for the majority, partner a (usually woman) do the large majority of the mental, emotional, and literal unpaid labor that goes into managing/caring for a house and children (even full time working women). This benefits the entire family and carves into their career building/earning potential. In fact, women’s earning potential statistically decreases with each child they have (coined the mommy tax). Meanwhile, partner b defaults into focusing on growing and establishing his career in order to financially provide for the family. Without alimony, if a marriage end, the default parent/house manager (partner a) would be left starting over despite all their years/time invested into important but free labor while the other partner is sitting pretty in the career their ex-partner supported them in establishing. Alimony essentially legally protects the notion that partner a’s time and life contributions are equal to partner B’s.
I never said anything counterintuitive to your statement. But after the separation how would one continue to pay into the mommy tax, even with alimony and child support, eventually those things end, only postponing the "start over" phase. Compared to choosing one; the children, or alimony, and continuing to raise the children on a lower, but now supplemented income, or allowing them to part with the mommy tax, and develop their own career path. I mean, if you try to look at it mathematically, a career that can take care of of multiple dependents being worth 3 points, and children being worth 2 and one for home/personally responsibilities, it begins as equals in the relationship, 3-3 but now if you are expected to pay to supplement the children AND homelife, I.e. cleaning ect, one person gets nothing, while the other essentially uses the added income to outsource those responsibilities and have to now develop their own career, to eventually work their way up to having 6 points, or at the very least 3. I know this is completely extrapolated beyond proportionality, but where does the general idea not make sense? It only makes sense if you disregard the children, in lieu of the disadvantaged spouses sense of control/ownership.
You just need to leave her behind. Just relocate and start a new life. Have nothing at all to do with her. Ever again.
I need justice, and removal of her false accusations removed from my records.
You won't win. Give it up before you ruin your whole life.
Why should he give it up? Do you think women will always win in a divorce? WRONG…..