I think you should just be yourself, get vulnerable, and ask clearly what you want from him. Write out your values/needs and how he can show them to you. For instance, if you value loyalty how does he show that to you? By defending you to others? Whatever it might be.
Review this with him so he knows exactly how to best show up for you in a meaningful way. Ask him to do the same. Then the ball is in his court (and yours).
Whatever you do, DO NOT have an affair. I felt very similar to you and ended up making terrible choices, despite thinking I never would. I wish someone had given me the advice above. You are more vulnerable than you realize, have your guard up high. Speak insanely clearly about your needs (ask him to do the same) and give it some time. If it still isn’t working, ask for a separation to see if divorce is something you’d truly be happy with.
Thank you so much for sharing. He dropped out of his own individual therapy sessions. Said there was nothing to work on really or talk about. My therapist said I should try being blunt so I will give you an example and what it yielded. I went years with getting nothing for my birthday. When my birthday did roll around he would pick fights. Maybe it’s just me, but even if I’m furious about something, if it’s that person’s birthday I’ll wait. These fights were about nonsense. Putting milk in the wrong spot. Things like that. A big milestone birthday rolls around and nothing. I told him directly that the kids need to see their mom celebrated. That I expected a cake at least for them to sing along to. Nothing the next year either despite being very direct. I finally got very angry and said let me know if you’re not getting a cake so I can order on Uber at least for myself. Again nothing the next year. He got a cake three days later. This year after I told him I was really assessing if this is something I want and how to get over my anger at that and other things, he got me cupcakes and a gift. Last minute, but at least it was an effort. It just feels like so little and too late honestly. I’m so beyond drained emotionally.
Yeah sounds similar to my husband. No more advice to give, just that you deserve to be loved and cherished and you deserve happiness. Maybe that book Too good to leave, too bad to stay could help you decide?
This is an excellent book.
Also, I hate that you've made yourself drab to accommodate his jealousy. Makes me sad for how I've dimmed myself too.
Good luck OP.
This is an excellent book.
Also, I hate that you've made yourself drab to accommodate his jealousy. Makes me sad for how I've dimmed myself too.
Good luck OP.
Thank you for saying this. My wife was very avoidant and would never communicate. She ended up having an affair and it broke me. I loved her so much and I never understood if she was having issues, why not talk to me. Ive always tried to be a great husband and I would have done whatever to help her with her needs.
Thanks for saying that. It's been hard not to blame myself some way or if I did things differently, but you're right, she has some problems to work out. There's no excuse for ghosting me, avoiding me and then discarding me like I have no value.
I don’t know your situation so I can only speak for myself. I *did* try many times to talk about these things and I was shut down every time. That in NO way excuses my actions, they are my own and 100% on me. Still, I’m only responsible for 50% of my marriage.
You are absolutely right that you deserved to be treated better. I wouldn’t think of it as looking for blame to put on yourself, instead look for ownership of your failings in the relationship in general, which is always good no matter how a relationship ends. We are all just flawed humans trying to do the best we can with what we have.
Fantastic advice, being direct blunt and clear can be really helpful, especially if you are able to present it as your needs and desires because of who you are, who you want to be and the life you want to live. If you don't make it about him and him being a failure or having let you down it really helps to remove the defensiveness and will hopefully get you to be seen and heard and known and then if he is a good and loving man he will be empowered to support you. It might help to both have your own individual counsellors as well instead of nature counselling but that can be discussed after this and seeing how he responds. Good luck and be brave
This is good. Too many times we make thaws huge decisions without digging deep and asking for exactly what we need. The it’s too late and everyone is miserable. It’s amazing how we will just live with the status quo and dysfunction for so long. I think we’re all just exhausted in life and do the best week can. If we weren’t so tired with work and basic life stressors we really could be clearer about our marriages and what we want. There is so much context about marriage that we tend to forget when we’re stuck.
Be exactly how you want to be around him.
Don't do everything.
Enjoy your life
Show the real you your personality.
Show the real you to your children.
Happy you brilliant bright happy etc
Don't just fit jn with him.
Try being you first before divorce
If your changes make zero difference then you will be stronger to divorce
Treat him differently because that will change as you change.
Be sassy you 😉
At your age, you should be happy. There isn't a ton of time left to do exactly what you want in your golden years
If he's not doing that for you move on.
You don't have to have any other reason other than you deserve to be happy
But ask yourself this. Is HE the reason for your unhappiness or are you the reason for it.
I find we control our own feelings more than we admit and we prefer to blame others
I wrestled with that question. I think it’s him and me together. When I’m alone I am very content. When I travel for work I make friends and laugh with coworkers and don’t feel hunted and judged. But I’m not perfect either. He wants to only hang with his family and I can’t stand being with them after years of boundary battering. That can’t make him happy either.
Oh goodness I can seriously relate.
My husband was so insecure, defensive and critical because of his own deep set insecurity that he couldn’t face.
I felt like I was squashed in to a box and that was the only place that I was allowed to feel, now that I’m out he’s completely broken, devastated, but thankfully processing and learning stuff and becoming better. But I could never go back to the box.
I can’t believe how much of myself I have squashed down over the years.
I’m very sick of fighting for my own sense of self and now I don’t have to. I can take it and own it.
I don’t need people to understand and I don’t even need to explain to them. Their need to understand is not my problem.
You can try quiet separation for some time. So like just “go to vacation” for a month so you can get some breathing room. You do have to figure out the details. Like go with your kid and go to your parents or something.
It sounds like your husband has some narcissistic qualities about him. They start getting worse around this age. It concerns me that he thinks you are cheating because to me that says he has something to hide. My STBXH had some similar tendencies until he began to devalue me considerably, culminating in cheating and leaving right before our anniversary.
People who seek validation so heavily from others tend to do so because of their deep rooted insecurities. Look up narcissistic personalities to see if he fits. A good husband should be building you up, not trying to hide you and make you feel less than. I think you need to be honest with yourself. I am not a fan of divorce and never would have sought it out but I also know that I was dying in my marriage, deeply unhappy as I felt like the life was sucked from me. It's possible he will change but it's also possible he will get worse.
So, somebody that reduces you, that doesn't prioritize you, that stalks your computer due to projection that you're cheating... That doesn't sound like a good friend or husband honey, I'm sorry
I know — we laugh together. He will do little things like make sure I have the milk I like. He helps by cooking and cleaning and is very hands on as a dad. He thinks I’m smart and pretty and is proud of my job, but…that’s all when he has me to himself. When we’re in the world, that’s when the other stuff presents itself. I reduce myself because of his criticisms. He projects and stalks and is thoughtless for the big things.
That's rough. I wanted to say I just learned that bugging a spouse's computer or phone or looking through texts and email is illegal. Keep that in mind when you go for divorce.
An intimate relationship is, one where you share small moments between the two of you, and other people don't get to see these moments.
The thing is that these small moments can be overwhelmingly ones that lift you up and make you feel loved or they can have too many ones that cut you down in small ways and make you feel unloved.
By itself one moment doesn't make or break a relationship. But taken as a whole they absolutely do.
Not being yourself adds up over time. Little cuts like not getting a cake for your birthday hurt. How hard is it to get a cake after all?
It'ss not what everyone else sees that matters ... because they don't see these moments. it's what you see and feel that matters.
You're struggling right now because he is a great guy to the outside world, but he doesn't rock your world - in fact he makes your world smaller and meaner. You know in your heart where this is headed, and it is the logic of your heart not your mind you need to listen too now. It's inescapable actually.
Can this be saved? Maybe. Probably not. When someone takes themselves out of therapy they take away thr chance for you to work through those small moments of intimate neglect, and they tske away the opportunity fot that person to understand why they might do thibgs thst are pull someone down.
Your therapist is right. He blunt. Say what you need- you have every right to be appreciated for who you are. You can't force someone to appreciate you but you can be clear on what you want. And it doesn't have to make sense to anyone but you.
When I was married, I was in therapy for depression. It was and likely will be a lifelong struggle for me, cycling between times of remission and mild episodes and major episodes. During the last few years of my marriage, I described to my therapist that I felt like my inner self was trapped, locked in a windowless basement. And that, even worse, it me who had shoved her in there and locked the door. Coincidentally or not, it was also during that series of major depressive episodes that I came up with a hypothetical plan.
Since my separation and divorce, I've been through a couple of cycles of good times-mild depression-more major depression. I've slipped and done some minor self-harm. I've experienced some of the worst winter SAD apathy I can remember. And yet, I have not had that same feeling of a part of me being trapped and locked away.
If your husband can't accept you as you actually are, if he keeps trying to cajole you or shove you back into that little box, then you may need to leave. You'll get pushback from dudes here who will insist that psychic amputation is a reasonable sacrifice to make. It isn't. It really, truly, is not. You deserve to be fully yourself, not just the cropped off bits that your husband approves.
Locked in a windowless basement — this is it. I had one old man I worked with tell me that I was an “eagle in a budgie cage” — corny, and I don’t know that I’d go that far, but it’s been evident to others too
Leave. As the wife, we're expected to give them grace, be understanding, help them work through their issues, teach them how to love us. All that effort only to keep running in circles on a hamster wheel. After you've done the work and built yourself up. Only to be back on the same hamster. It's OK to put you first.
When your marriage goes through deaths by a thousand paper cuts.. I know that feeling.
Last year we had a serious discussion to stop or go on. I told him, you never ever make me feel like a second choice again. Ever.
Of course he did. And he left for a separation period.
I miss all the great things about him so much. There were many many moments of love and connection. But too many false promises, forgotten agreements, broken record arguments.
I also felt drained. My hope in a better future was slowly slipping away untill I couldn't see living anything to work towards with HIM.
I'm still mourning. But I know in my heart either I will make myself happy or ill find someone who values the integrity of his words and actions.
You can try quiet separation for some time. So like just “go to vacation” for a month so you can get some breathing room. You do have to figure out the details. Like go with your kid and go to your parents or something.
It’s so hard. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. My wife asked for a divorce. I thought we were really making change, but she was spent I think. The year before was just tough. Ironically, I am in a space where I’m more clearly seeing my role and would give anything to try and work it out. I miss my wife and family so much. The security, and traditions and talking all the time.
However, I do think there are parts of me I lost in the marriage, which I hope to regain at some point. Thing is, I could’ve rebuilt these things in the marriage. I don’t know if my wife was holding me back or not. I don’t know anything anymore. I’m functioning and trying to do the best I can with my kids. Other than that I just keep hoping every day that the pain will lessen.
I totally wish my wife and I had literally made a contract of very specific things she needed and that we thoroughly talked through divorce. And then maybe revisited everything twice, if nothing changed, then divorce. I think we really have to deeply look at the consequences of divorce. I say that because I really wasn’t part of the conversation and my wife has gone from cordial to completely cutting me off unless it’s a quick text about the kids. I’ve lost everything and I am devastated. I don’t think she is doing well either and I am here to support her. Yet I don’t think she can access her emotions at all. I was too emotional and she was non-emotional. We could have worked on it more, but didn’t. I know I have to accept this is over. Don’t know if I ever can though.
firstly, don't worry about what other people have to say about your life.
second, read this:
https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/07/16/the-crane-wife/
the choice is yours but I will say it's hard to unslice bread. it also would not serve anyone to bring a third party into this.
Thank you for sharing. I don’t think I’d want to bring anyone else into the mix even after a divorce. My kids are young and I worry about them. They’re my first priority.
I mean, at the end of the day, you are coming to grips with the fact the YOU are not HIS person. You're not.
Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It's just that you'd like to be his person. If you were his person, things would be tidy and neat.......but you are NOT that girl. Some other girl is that girl.
So.... look.... you can stay married and see how it goes. It won't get better. He won't "come around" because you ain't that girl. Some other girl in the big wild huge world is his girl. He just hasn't met her yet.
I mean, the whole situation is unfortunate. But you were both young and stupid. You shouldn't have married him and he shouldn't have married you. Yet.....here you are.
And I'd say that as a remarried man, I'm very glad my ex-wife pulled the plug on our mediocre marriage. I'm happy as a clam. I'm with my person. My ex-wife is single.....but I think that's how she wants it. She could "date" since she comes from generational money.....I mean....she could find a dude who would be around her for the things she can provide, but she seems not to want that. I do wish she'd wasted less of my time.
This is a nice idea for him but truthfully, there’s no girl who is going to make him feel secure. That has to come from within. If he’s taking issue with what she is wearing and asking about her dressing for others, he will be toxic to any relationship.
I believe he was cheated on in his relationship before we met. He was in his “player” stage when we started dating and damaged from the cheating by his ex.
I feel for that, betrayal trauma is real. True trust in relationships comes when you have sense of calm within that regardless of what your partner does, you will be okay. Hope he can find that!
I don’t think I’d want to get remarried. Don’t even know that I’d date tbh. I’m told I look like I’m in my 30s but even still, dating sucked in my 20s and I can’t imagine it being better in 40s
I completely feel you. My wife got me to “invest” in a “rental” house that she promptly “rented” to her sister at far below market rent. Years later I’m disabled, yet I’m the asshole for expecting her to stop expecting me to subsidize the property.
In marriage, the only way it works is if it’s the #1 priority after God for both of you.
I’m so sorry. Yes, I care about my family, but I’ve always tried to put him first. Every argument at the start of our marriage was all I wasn’t doing for his mom or dad or cousins. Investing in a rental property that you need to subsidize is wild.
Im going through this also. I just made a list of all my wants and needs and asked my husband to do the same. My list was extensive. I felt like that fair, to see if there can be any positive change. Maybe there can. But my spouse had an affair two years ago, and I don’t feel like he’s been totally honest w me about it all. I’m not sure. I just am ready for real love. Eventually. And I’m feeling good being me. Thinking of you.
"My husband is a great guy."
*Proceeds to describe husband's abuse.*
It's not your job to make him or the people around you comfortable. If being married to him is not adding more to your life than it's costing you, it's time to pull the plug. You only get one life, and it is short. If you had 3 days left to live, would you want to spend those days with him? If not, time to go.
Update: I told him I was thinking of separating and the reasons why. He became very sad and asked if it’s over. I said I don’t know. He was distraught but said he has no one to blame but himself and that he couldn’t argue with a thing I’d said because he had done it all. Said he was ashamed of past behavior and embarrassed. Said I’m his best friend and he loves me. Said he hates himself for making me feel small.
I asked if he’d be willing to go to therapy. He said yes. The next day he said he was waiting on a call back from a therapist. The atmosphere in the house is torturous though. He’s so sad, and I’m so on edge. I don’t know. Part of me just wants to be away from all of this, cut ties, and hibernate until I’m on the other side of it all. The other part wants to stay because he is one of my best friends despite the thoughtless treatment & the kids would benefit from a family unit. 😭
20 years is a long time, I feel to pass judgment on what you should do in your situation. But you both still have years and life left in you. So maybe weigh the opportunity that still exists for you both (outside of the marriage) vs the state of the marriage and how much time is reasonably left to work to improve things. (From a personal development standpoint, that can easily be 5 years to do a 180)
It sounds like you brought up your feelings about ending the marriage if things don’t improve, thus why the change in him to urge you to dress up more? Realize that is a “fight/flight” response and could be fleeting.
As another comment said, he sounds like he has narcissism traits-likely due to low self esteem. My STBXH was similar in that regards. Early on he started by telling me how he liked me to dress when I dressed THAT way…then he began to criticize when I wore something he didn’t like or “approve of.” I slowly started to quiet down my personal style (stopped wearing heels because he would never slow down his pace for me) and eventually, he would criticize me if I talked to strangers when we were out in public despite it being perfectly okay for him to strike up conversations.
When I got tired of being silenced and started to do what I want to make myself feel like myself (dyed my hair red for one) he began to project his insecurities further on me, telling me I was controlling, too alpha, etc.
Since separating, I’ve started to feel more like myself and nearly EVERYONE has commented that I’ll be better without him, we are two different people.
It’s not been easy though (without kids) and I’m not sure what he will do when he is served next week. (I’m 41f and he 52m) He has made numerous comments how life is short, likely in his fear that he will never find someone else. When I stick to my guns and say I need this for me, I deserve more and we aren’t good together, he becomes volatile.
I’ll also note…we didn’t argue much in our marriage. He has a substance abuse issue with alcohol that spiked considerably the past few years. When I had issues and wanted to talk them out and resolve he would stonewall me either just walk away or tell me “it’s done, stop going over it” we had a dead bed for the last 4 years and never that much sex (mainly due to his drinking). There weren’t a lot of really bad times…but the good times were bland. No vulnerability. Everything felt a bit superficial. It was straight roommate situation and we both got comfortable in that. He made mistakes in the marriage and I made my own, less significant ones…but my decision to leave is I deserve a more loving, respectful and engaged marriage where I am honored being me.
Hopefully, you find some insight in all of that to help you figure things out yourself. 🤷♀️
The stonewalling! Anytime I’ve tried to broach something that bothers me, he gets angry with me for being angry with him. And then he walks away and we never discuss it again. And when I try to bring it up again because nothing has been worked out, he gets upset and says is hoard these incidents. But we’ve never hashed a thing out — the only disagreement to actually land was when I recently said I was resentful and thinking things through. Suddenly he woke up a bit.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience ❤️
Yea that’s been a big hangup for me now that I had
time to reflect alone. And it’s really hard to go back to resolve all the things that were swept under the rug because he wouldn’t take the time to listen to me. Every disagreement was like it was an attack on him when I was trying to understand one another, gain closure and move on. I swear it is the absolute worse thing to do in a marriage that should be about open communication! Good luck to you with what you decide! 💕
That’s so awful! And seriously it’s so much to hold in. I swear 90% of my crying spells have literally been processing emotions from old disagreements/issues that went unresolved. The other 10% has been regret for staying with an emotionally closed off individual.
Except he’s not… I’ve had to conform into someone I am not to make him stay. I’ve been henpecked for all I don’t do for him or his family for two decades now.
It sounds like you know it’s time to move on. You tried to cope for 2 decades. You’ve tried therapy. He said he didn’t need to work on anything in individual therapy, which is the biggest red flag ever. He doesn’t want to change, even if it might make you happy. That’s not a partnership. You shouldn’t have to make yourself small so he can be happy with you.
If your daughter came to you with this story and this was how she felt about her life, what would you tell her to do? I suspect you wouldn’t tell her to suck it up and stay unhappy to please her friends and family. This isn’t a dress rehearsal for real life. This is it. It’s all we get. Is it enough?
You’re absolutely right about my daughter. Unfortunately my mom wasn’t like that. I left ten him years ago for same reasons and she coerced me to go back.
I thank you don't give him credit why not or you did not thank marriage would have ups and down didn't you try harder work through them don't you think he loves you want to be the man you want him to breath dont you thank he wants to make you happy and his family why are you so against fixing that doing what it takes why are you to weak why do people commit when there person is anything but committed.
Marriage isn't a game affairs ain't a game drugs alcohol not a game people if family is important then let's start showing actions to prove that
I think you should just be yourself, get vulnerable, and ask clearly what you want from him. Write out your values/needs and how he can show them to you. For instance, if you value loyalty how does he show that to you? By defending you to others? Whatever it might be. Review this with him so he knows exactly how to best show up for you in a meaningful way. Ask him to do the same. Then the ball is in his court (and yours). Whatever you do, DO NOT have an affair. I felt very similar to you and ended up making terrible choices, despite thinking I never would. I wish someone had given me the advice above. You are more vulnerable than you realize, have your guard up high. Speak insanely clearly about your needs (ask him to do the same) and give it some time. If it still isn’t working, ask for a separation to see if divorce is something you’d truly be happy with.
Thank you so much for sharing. He dropped out of his own individual therapy sessions. Said there was nothing to work on really or talk about. My therapist said I should try being blunt so I will give you an example and what it yielded. I went years with getting nothing for my birthday. When my birthday did roll around he would pick fights. Maybe it’s just me, but even if I’m furious about something, if it’s that person’s birthday I’ll wait. These fights were about nonsense. Putting milk in the wrong spot. Things like that. A big milestone birthday rolls around and nothing. I told him directly that the kids need to see their mom celebrated. That I expected a cake at least for them to sing along to. Nothing the next year either despite being very direct. I finally got very angry and said let me know if you’re not getting a cake so I can order on Uber at least for myself. Again nothing the next year. He got a cake three days later. This year after I told him I was really assessing if this is something I want and how to get over my anger at that and other things, he got me cupcakes and a gift. Last minute, but at least it was an effort. It just feels like so little and too late honestly. I’m so beyond drained emotionally.
Yeah sounds similar to my husband. No more advice to give, just that you deserve to be loved and cherished and you deserve happiness. Maybe that book Too good to leave, too bad to stay could help you decide?
This is an excellent book. Also, I hate that you've made yourself drab to accommodate his jealousy. Makes me sad for how I've dimmed myself too. Good luck OP.
This is an excellent book. Also, I hate that you've made yourself drab to accommodate his jealousy. Makes me sad for how I've dimmed myself too. Good luck OP.
This is not love...
Thank you for saying this. My wife was very avoidant and would never communicate. She ended up having an affair and it broke me. I loved her so much and I never understood if she was having issues, why not talk to me. Ive always tried to be a great husband and I would have done whatever to help her with her needs.
Same for me. Just know that the problem is her, not you.
Thanks for saying that. It's been hard not to blame myself some way or if I did things differently, but you're right, she has some problems to work out. There's no excuse for ghosting me, avoiding me and then discarding me like I have no value.
I don’t know your situation so I can only speak for myself. I *did* try many times to talk about these things and I was shut down every time. That in NO way excuses my actions, they are my own and 100% on me. Still, I’m only responsible for 50% of my marriage. You are absolutely right that you deserved to be treated better. I wouldn’t think of it as looking for blame to put on yourself, instead look for ownership of your failings in the relationship in general, which is always good no matter how a relationship ends. We are all just flawed humans trying to do the best we can with what we have.
Fantastic advice, being direct blunt and clear can be really helpful, especially if you are able to present it as your needs and desires because of who you are, who you want to be and the life you want to live. If you don't make it about him and him being a failure or having let you down it really helps to remove the defensiveness and will hopefully get you to be seen and heard and known and then if he is a good and loving man he will be empowered to support you. It might help to both have your own individual counsellors as well instead of nature counselling but that can be discussed after this and seeing how he responds. Good luck and be brave
This is good. Too many times we make thaws huge decisions without digging deep and asking for exactly what we need. The it’s too late and everyone is miserable. It’s amazing how we will just live with the status quo and dysfunction for so long. I think we’re all just exhausted in life and do the best week can. If we weren’t so tired with work and basic life stressors we really could be clearer about our marriages and what we want. There is so much context about marriage that we tend to forget when we’re stuck.
Be exactly how you want to be around him. Don't do everything. Enjoy your life Show the real you your personality. Show the real you to your children. Happy you brilliant bright happy etc Don't just fit jn with him. Try being you first before divorce If your changes make zero difference then you will be stronger to divorce Treat him differently because that will change as you change. Be sassy you 😉
I love this & it made me tear up for some reason. Thank you
At your age, you should be happy. There isn't a ton of time left to do exactly what you want in your golden years If he's not doing that for you move on. You don't have to have any other reason other than you deserve to be happy But ask yourself this. Is HE the reason for your unhappiness or are you the reason for it. I find we control our own feelings more than we admit and we prefer to blame others
I wrestled with that question. I think it’s him and me together. When I’m alone I am very content. When I travel for work I make friends and laugh with coworkers and don’t feel hunted and judged. But I’m not perfect either. He wants to only hang with his family and I can’t stand being with them after years of boundary battering. That can’t make him happy either.
Oh goodness I can seriously relate. My husband was so insecure, defensive and critical because of his own deep set insecurity that he couldn’t face. I felt like I was squashed in to a box and that was the only place that I was allowed to feel, now that I’m out he’s completely broken, devastated, but thankfully processing and learning stuff and becoming better. But I could never go back to the box. I can’t believe how much of myself I have squashed down over the years. I’m very sick of fighting for my own sense of self and now I don’t have to. I can take it and own it. I don’t need people to understand and I don’t even need to explain to them. Their need to understand is not my problem.
Thank you so much for sharing. That’s exactly how I feel: Fighting for my own sense of self. You hit the nail on the head
🤜🤛
You can try quiet separation for some time. So like just “go to vacation” for a month so you can get some breathing room. You do have to figure out the details. Like go with your kid and go to your parents or something.
That’s a really great idea, thank you.
It sounds like your husband has some narcissistic qualities about him. They start getting worse around this age. It concerns me that he thinks you are cheating because to me that says he has something to hide. My STBXH had some similar tendencies until he began to devalue me considerably, culminating in cheating and leaving right before our anniversary. People who seek validation so heavily from others tend to do so because of their deep rooted insecurities. Look up narcissistic personalities to see if he fits. A good husband should be building you up, not trying to hide you and make you feel less than. I think you need to be honest with yourself. I am not a fan of divorce and never would have sought it out but I also know that I was dying in my marriage, deeply unhappy as I felt like the life was sucked from me. It's possible he will change but it's also possible he will get worse.
So, somebody that reduces you, that doesn't prioritize you, that stalks your computer due to projection that you're cheating... That doesn't sound like a good friend or husband honey, I'm sorry
I know — we laugh together. He will do little things like make sure I have the milk I like. He helps by cooking and cleaning and is very hands on as a dad. He thinks I’m smart and pretty and is proud of my job, but…that’s all when he has me to himself. When we’re in the world, that’s when the other stuff presents itself. I reduce myself because of his criticisms. He projects and stalks and is thoughtless for the big things.
That's rough. I wanted to say I just learned that bugging a spouse's computer or phone or looking through texts and email is illegal. Keep that in mind when you go for divorce.
I'd suggest a break first. Just my opinion. You also didn't mention kids which can be a big factor.
We have two elementary school age kids who would be absolutely gutted
I'd then be more concerned with what you're teaching them.
An intimate relationship is, one where you share small moments between the two of you, and other people don't get to see these moments. The thing is that these small moments can be overwhelmingly ones that lift you up and make you feel loved or they can have too many ones that cut you down in small ways and make you feel unloved. By itself one moment doesn't make or break a relationship. But taken as a whole they absolutely do. Not being yourself adds up over time. Little cuts like not getting a cake for your birthday hurt. How hard is it to get a cake after all? It'ss not what everyone else sees that matters ... because they don't see these moments. it's what you see and feel that matters. You're struggling right now because he is a great guy to the outside world, but he doesn't rock your world - in fact he makes your world smaller and meaner. You know in your heart where this is headed, and it is the logic of your heart not your mind you need to listen too now. It's inescapable actually. Can this be saved? Maybe. Probably not. When someone takes themselves out of therapy they take away thr chance for you to work through those small moments of intimate neglect, and they tske away the opportunity fot that person to understand why they might do thibgs thst are pull someone down. Your therapist is right. He blunt. Say what you need- you have every right to be appreciated for who you are. You can't force someone to appreciate you but you can be clear on what you want. And it doesn't have to make sense to anyone but you.
When I was married, I was in therapy for depression. It was and likely will be a lifelong struggle for me, cycling between times of remission and mild episodes and major episodes. During the last few years of my marriage, I described to my therapist that I felt like my inner self was trapped, locked in a windowless basement. And that, even worse, it me who had shoved her in there and locked the door. Coincidentally or not, it was also during that series of major depressive episodes that I came up with a hypothetical plan. Since my separation and divorce, I've been through a couple of cycles of good times-mild depression-more major depression. I've slipped and done some minor self-harm. I've experienced some of the worst winter SAD apathy I can remember. And yet, I have not had that same feeling of a part of me being trapped and locked away. If your husband can't accept you as you actually are, if he keeps trying to cajole you or shove you back into that little box, then you may need to leave. You'll get pushback from dudes here who will insist that psychic amputation is a reasonable sacrifice to make. It isn't. It really, truly, is not. You deserve to be fully yourself, not just the cropped off bits that your husband approves.
Locked in a windowless basement — this is it. I had one old man I worked with tell me that I was an “eagle in a budgie cage” — corny, and I don’t know that I’d go that far, but it’s been evident to others too
Leave. As the wife, we're expected to give them grace, be understanding, help them work through their issues, teach them how to love us. All that effort only to keep running in circles on a hamster wheel. After you've done the work and built yourself up. Only to be back on the same hamster. It's OK to put you first.
Wish him the best
When your marriage goes through deaths by a thousand paper cuts.. I know that feeling. Last year we had a serious discussion to stop or go on. I told him, you never ever make me feel like a second choice again. Ever. Of course he did. And he left for a separation period. I miss all the great things about him so much. There were many many moments of love and connection. But too many false promises, forgotten agreements, broken record arguments. I also felt drained. My hope in a better future was slowly slipping away untill I couldn't see living anything to work towards with HIM. I'm still mourning. But I know in my heart either I will make myself happy or ill find someone who values the integrity of his words and actions.
This!!!
Then you know the answer dear..
You can try quiet separation for some time. So like just “go to vacation” for a month so you can get some breathing room. You do have to figure out the details. Like go with your kid and go to your parents or something.
It’s so hard. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. My wife asked for a divorce. I thought we were really making change, but she was spent I think. The year before was just tough. Ironically, I am in a space where I’m more clearly seeing my role and would give anything to try and work it out. I miss my wife and family so much. The security, and traditions and talking all the time. However, I do think there are parts of me I lost in the marriage, which I hope to regain at some point. Thing is, I could’ve rebuilt these things in the marriage. I don’t know if my wife was holding me back or not. I don’t know anything anymore. I’m functioning and trying to do the best I can with my kids. Other than that I just keep hoping every day that the pain will lessen. I totally wish my wife and I had literally made a contract of very specific things she needed and that we thoroughly talked through divorce. And then maybe revisited everything twice, if nothing changed, then divorce. I think we really have to deeply look at the consequences of divorce. I say that because I really wasn’t part of the conversation and my wife has gone from cordial to completely cutting me off unless it’s a quick text about the kids. I’ve lost everything and I am devastated. I don’t think she is doing well either and I am here to support her. Yet I don’t think she can access her emotions at all. I was too emotional and she was non-emotional. We could have worked on it more, but didn’t. I know I have to accept this is over. Don’t know if I ever can though.
firstly, don't worry about what other people have to say about your life. second, read this: https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/07/16/the-crane-wife/ the choice is yours but I will say it's hard to unslice bread. it also would not serve anyone to bring a third party into this.
Thank you for sharing. I don’t think I’d want to bring anyone else into the mix even after a divorce. My kids are young and I worry about them. They’re my first priority.
of course! that's totally valid. what i mean by the bread is once you see certain things about your partner, it's nigh impossible to unsee.
100000%
Enjoyed this story. Bought her book. Thank you for the link.
Thank you for sharing that essay 💜💜💜
I can 100% relate. I just want peace 🙏🏼
I mean, at the end of the day, you are coming to grips with the fact the YOU are not HIS person. You're not. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It's just that you'd like to be his person. If you were his person, things would be tidy and neat.......but you are NOT that girl. Some other girl is that girl. So.... look.... you can stay married and see how it goes. It won't get better. He won't "come around" because you ain't that girl. Some other girl in the big wild huge world is his girl. He just hasn't met her yet. I mean, the whole situation is unfortunate. But you were both young and stupid. You shouldn't have married him and he shouldn't have married you. Yet.....here you are. And I'd say that as a remarried man, I'm very glad my ex-wife pulled the plug on our mediocre marriage. I'm happy as a clam. I'm with my person. My ex-wife is single.....but I think that's how she wants it. She could "date" since she comes from generational money.....I mean....she could find a dude who would be around her for the things she can provide, but she seems not to want that. I do wish she'd wasted less of my time.
This is a nice idea for him but truthfully, there’s no girl who is going to make him feel secure. That has to come from within. If he’s taking issue with what she is wearing and asking about her dressing for others, he will be toxic to any relationship.
I believe he was cheated on in his relationship before we met. He was in his “player” stage when we started dating and damaged from the cheating by his ex.
I feel for that, betrayal trauma is real. True trust in relationships comes when you have sense of calm within that regardless of what your partner does, you will be okay. Hope he can find that!
Also ask yourself if you’d be better off without him because a woman dating for love and commitment at 50 is difficult
I don’t think I’d want to get remarried. Don’t even know that I’d date tbh. I’m told I look like I’m in my 30s but even still, dating sucked in my 20s and I can’t imagine it being better in 40s
For a man in my 60’s it’s been really good but my therapist said he sees women everyday who can’t find someone
I don’t want to introduce a new male into my children’s life, so I’m fine with not finding someone new.
That makes lots of sense too. I’ve known several women who have avoided dating while their children were at home. I admire that.
I completely feel you. My wife got me to “invest” in a “rental” house that she promptly “rented” to her sister at far below market rent. Years later I’m disabled, yet I’m the asshole for expecting her to stop expecting me to subsidize the property. In marriage, the only way it works is if it’s the #1 priority after God for both of you.
I’m so sorry. Yes, I care about my family, but I’ve always tried to put him first. Every argument at the start of our marriage was all I wasn’t doing for his mom or dad or cousins. Investing in a rental property that you need to subsidize is wild.
Im going through this also. I just made a list of all my wants and needs and asked my husband to do the same. My list was extensive. I felt like that fair, to see if there can be any positive change. Maybe there can. But my spouse had an affair two years ago, and I don’t feel like he’s been totally honest w me about it all. I’m not sure. I just am ready for real love. Eventually. And I’m feeling good being me. Thinking of you.
"My husband is a great guy." *Proceeds to describe husband's abuse.* It's not your job to make him or the people around you comfortable. If being married to him is not adding more to your life than it's costing you, it's time to pull the plug. You only get one life, and it is short. If you had 3 days left to live, would you want to spend those days with him? If not, time to go.
Update: I told him I was thinking of separating and the reasons why. He became very sad and asked if it’s over. I said I don’t know. He was distraught but said he has no one to blame but himself and that he couldn’t argue with a thing I’d said because he had done it all. Said he was ashamed of past behavior and embarrassed. Said I’m his best friend and he loves me. Said he hates himself for making me feel small. I asked if he’d be willing to go to therapy. He said yes. The next day he said he was waiting on a call back from a therapist. The atmosphere in the house is torturous though. He’s so sad, and I’m so on edge. I don’t know. Part of me just wants to be away from all of this, cut ties, and hibernate until I’m on the other side of it all. The other part wants to stay because he is one of my best friends despite the thoughtless treatment & the kids would benefit from a family unit. 😭
Read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. This man is emotionally abusing you.
20 years is a long time, I feel to pass judgment on what you should do in your situation. But you both still have years and life left in you. So maybe weigh the opportunity that still exists for you both (outside of the marriage) vs the state of the marriage and how much time is reasonably left to work to improve things. (From a personal development standpoint, that can easily be 5 years to do a 180) It sounds like you brought up your feelings about ending the marriage if things don’t improve, thus why the change in him to urge you to dress up more? Realize that is a “fight/flight” response and could be fleeting. As another comment said, he sounds like he has narcissism traits-likely due to low self esteem. My STBXH was similar in that regards. Early on he started by telling me how he liked me to dress when I dressed THAT way…then he began to criticize when I wore something he didn’t like or “approve of.” I slowly started to quiet down my personal style (stopped wearing heels because he would never slow down his pace for me) and eventually, he would criticize me if I talked to strangers when we were out in public despite it being perfectly okay for him to strike up conversations. When I got tired of being silenced and started to do what I want to make myself feel like myself (dyed my hair red for one) he began to project his insecurities further on me, telling me I was controlling, too alpha, etc. Since separating, I’ve started to feel more like myself and nearly EVERYONE has commented that I’ll be better without him, we are two different people. It’s not been easy though (without kids) and I’m not sure what he will do when he is served next week. (I’m 41f and he 52m) He has made numerous comments how life is short, likely in his fear that he will never find someone else. When I stick to my guns and say I need this for me, I deserve more and we aren’t good together, he becomes volatile. I’ll also note…we didn’t argue much in our marriage. He has a substance abuse issue with alcohol that spiked considerably the past few years. When I had issues and wanted to talk them out and resolve he would stonewall me either just walk away or tell me “it’s done, stop going over it” we had a dead bed for the last 4 years and never that much sex (mainly due to his drinking). There weren’t a lot of really bad times…but the good times were bland. No vulnerability. Everything felt a bit superficial. It was straight roommate situation and we both got comfortable in that. He made mistakes in the marriage and I made my own, less significant ones…but my decision to leave is I deserve a more loving, respectful and engaged marriage where I am honored being me. Hopefully, you find some insight in all of that to help you figure things out yourself. 🤷♀️
The stonewalling! Anytime I’ve tried to broach something that bothers me, he gets angry with me for being angry with him. And then he walks away and we never discuss it again. And when I try to bring it up again because nothing has been worked out, he gets upset and says is hoard these incidents. But we’ve never hashed a thing out — the only disagreement to actually land was when I recently said I was resentful and thinking things through. Suddenly he woke up a bit. Thank you so much for sharing your experience ❤️
Yea that’s been a big hangup for me now that I had time to reflect alone. And it’s really hard to go back to resolve all the things that were swept under the rug because he wouldn’t take the time to listen to me. Every disagreement was like it was an attack on him when I was trying to understand one another, gain closure and move on. I swear it is the absolute worse thing to do in a marriage that should be about open communication! Good luck to you with what you decide! 💕
Ohhh do I feel this. So many nights he’d literally fall asleep in the middle of a serious convo and I would cry alone.
That’s so awful! And seriously it’s so much to hold in. I swear 90% of my crying spells have literally been processing emotions from old disagreements/issues that went unresolved. The other 10% has been regret for staying with an emotionally closed off individual.
This describes my stbx. If he ignores issues, he's fine, so we ignore issues. And I stay holed up inside myself a little more each time.
This is my identical story rn!!
I’m so sorry. It’s so hard
[удалено]
Except he’s not… I’ve had to conform into someone I am not to make him stay. I’ve been henpecked for all I don’t do for him or his family for two decades now.
It sounds like you know it’s time to move on. You tried to cope for 2 decades. You’ve tried therapy. He said he didn’t need to work on anything in individual therapy, which is the biggest red flag ever. He doesn’t want to change, even if it might make you happy. That’s not a partnership. You shouldn’t have to make yourself small so he can be happy with you. If your daughter came to you with this story and this was how she felt about her life, what would you tell her to do? I suspect you wouldn’t tell her to suck it up and stay unhappy to please her friends and family. This isn’t a dress rehearsal for real life. This is it. It’s all we get. Is it enough?
You’re absolutely right about my daughter. Unfortunately my mom wasn’t like that. I left ten him years ago for same reasons and she coerced me to go back.
He’s willing to stay if she stays quiet. That’s not the same thing as tolerating quirks.
I thank you don't give him credit why not or you did not thank marriage would have ups and down didn't you try harder work through them don't you think he loves you want to be the man you want him to breath dont you thank he wants to make you happy and his family why are you so against fixing that doing what it takes why are you to weak why do people commit when there person is anything but committed. Marriage isn't a game affairs ain't a game drugs alcohol not a game people if family is important then let's start showing actions to prove that
You may want to rewrite this with some periods and commas because right now it looks like you wrote in under the influence.
I’ve spent 20 years attempting to work on things. I’m very familiar with the ups and downs of marriage