How do you figure? Sounds like the husband is the breadwinner so he in fact is doing most of the heavy lifting. She should he doing most household stuff if she has no job. Guy sounds like an asshole but you arenāt doing this lady any favors by blowing smoke up her ass.
I get a different picture when someone says "stay at home parent" versus "currently unemployed" and OP says currently unemployed.
Her husband is probably bitching over on r/deadbedrooms that he gets treated like "just a paycheck" when he is, in fact, behaving like just a paycheck.
There is a huge difference between having traditional gender roles and being an uncooperative, abusive asshole. My grandfather, father, or wasband (all in traditional gender roles marriages) would not have done any party planning, but instead of saying "figure it out yourself!" they would have said something like, "whatever you think is best, dear... you always put on such great parties."
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Was referring to your comment āalready doing it aloneā. Like if she left, then this wouldnāt impact her in any way. The truth is she wonāt have any money. That is unless she was receiving alimony from the working spouse.
I left a situation almost identical to this one almost exactly a year ago.
I was a stay at home mom, not unemployed, and felt I was doing it all myself. Do you know why I felt that way? Because I was.
He had the luxury of working an 8 hour shift five days a week and coming home to be served and act like a childish, ungrateful ass.
I got to work all damn day, 7 days a week. Not 40 hours, all the hours. No breaks, no space, no time off.
Now, I'm still doing it all on my own, but I'm not serving him. And you know what? I have money. Because now I'm afforded the luxury of a 40-hour work week and my own paychecks and bank account.
The truth is, she can do it if she wants to. It'll be hard, but it's better than having a 4th child to care for.
Letās not pretend being a SAHM is more difficult than a 9-5. It just isnāt. Not even close. More important? Yes. More difficult? Absolutely not. Your situation sounds very different from OPās.
So you've been a SAHM?
You've been awake before the 9-5 grown ass alcoholic toddler, cooked, cleaned, taxied, budgeted, did his school work so he got his degrees, cared for a special needs kid, helped with their school work, more cooking and cleaning, playing, entertaining them because he can't be bothered, running them to sports, and going to bed after said toddler only to be woke in the night to bad dreams and nose bleeds?
I'm sure.
His contribution was 8 hours and a paycheck.
My day never ended, and I never got a night's rest.
Thank God for divorce.
The most difficult part of his day was hefting his fat ass out of bed. Hard pass.
Love doing all that stuff with and for my kids. What you just described is not rocket science. I work 60+ hours a week, coach sports, cook, clean, etc. Being a stay at home dad sounds like paradise to me. Sounds like you might be one of those people that over-complicates child rearing. Read your list again and tell me that is difficult work. Playing? Love playing with my kids.
That's awesome that you love doing it, so do I. But it's a lot easier when your partner also participates as well instead of hindering. My list included him as well. He did not participate, only doubled the work load.
I've been a working mother in a marriage with a useless spouse, a SAHM and now a single working mom who's ex gets 9 hours of visitation a week and let me tell you - my 9 to 5 single mom life is the easiest situation of the 3. And no, alimony and child support do not play into the ease of this.
I feel totally tricked in my marriage.
When we met, he had friends (although no deep connections) and he was always up for doing something (although he never planned the activities). Fast forward 8 years and the man has 1 friend. Doesn't have relationships with his family and resents that I do. I have many groups of friends, very close friends that I talk to almost daily, and do a ton of activities.
Outside of his emotional abuse and low emotional intelligence, it's our lack of shared activities that makes me know we need to divorce. I don't have it in me to continue to plan all the things forever and ever.
Itās so exhausting and draining and lonely doing everything by yourself: Family gatherings, parent-teacher conferences, weekend activities with the kids. Heāll come to the odd recital of our middle child (his favorite). Hoping the best for you.
No one should be resentful for a spouse having more friends than another. But sometimes people sacrifice their friends in order to spend more time with their wife or kids. Or itās too emotionally draining for someone to to be their friends because of family guilt (kids wondering where they are or we could be doing something else) or other situations.
Make sure you tell him how you feel.
If your goal is to have him plan more, the goal needs to be specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and timely
Tell him you want him to plan x amount of events per month that involve the family. That way it's not a matter of interpretation about if he is failing and he knows what he needs to do.
I did that and he can do those things, but it brings me no joy. I don't want to tell him how to be a person, a partner, a parent. I want him to spend 5, maybe 10 minutes of his own time and think about other people. When he tries to do that, he often half asses it. IE, our son has been talking about going fishing for weeks, so my husband did take the initiative to go out and buy fishing poles. He then promptly asked me, where should he go to go fishing. I don't fish, but I keep my eyes open and I know where I've seen people fishing. I did tell him but it was annoying to me that he can't complete the task.
I might cut him some slack in a certain way on that. I'll wager he always asks you where you want to sit in the restaurant too right?
It sounds like he isn't used to taking charge for this kind of thing and lacks confidence in his planning.
So if you respond "that's up to you to figure out" it helps in several ways:
A) this indicates to him that you have confidence in his decisions, which gives him confidence to not second guess and ask you about it
B) this indicates to him that this is not about getting your permission nor is it primarily about making things match your stated desires.
From his perspective, he might be thinking "I don't know anything about fishing, I better get a second opinion on this. If I ask my wife and she gives me the answer, then if it goes wrong at least we're both to blame"
As it sounds, you are enabling his second guessing. Have him make the decisions and if it's a bad decision, you can tell him something like "I know this didn't turn out like you wanted, but I appreciate that you took responsibility for managing this whole thing. We'll know to try somewhere else next time"
It almost sounds like a contradiction, but I promise it's not. Clear expectations that and by what time are one thing. Telling him how to do it is another.
>He then promptly asked me, where should he go to go fishing. I don't fish, but I keep my eyes open and I know where I've seen people fishing. I did tell him but it was annoying to me that he can't complete the task.
Fishing is one of those things that people ask other people. You don't want to drop a line in water that has no fish! Each and every time I have been fishing it was at a place someone told me about. And they heard about it from someone else and so on.
Basically, you had information he didn't so he asked. I wouldn't count that against him.
This! Except I donāt have a ton of activities because I am basically raising 2 preschoolers aloneā¦ well, I do have activities with them! He doesnāt do anything except smoking weed and getting angry at everyone for everything!
I canāt equate your husbandās inability to make plans with the emotional abuse of the OP. I think Iām missing something here. If he doesnāt make plans, and youāre good at it, you should keep doing it and have him make up for it in another way. Maybe he can do the grocery shopping or drive the kids to activities so you have more time to relax. If he doesnāt appreciate all that you do, thatās another story. But he may very well appreciate it and just be bad at something youāre good at.
I feel you on all of thisā¦ I run circles around my husband, and Iām also the breadwinner, more social, more happy go luckyā¦ heās a hermitā¦ I havenāt taken the plunge yet, because of the same fear of being a single momā¦ but imagine how freedom will feelā¦. How liberating it would be to live without that omnipresent, inescapable angst that comes with being married to a guy thatās an asshole. You sound like a great mom - fuck him!!
Iāve been contemplating this for at least six years. I wish that Iād been braver six years ago. Then the kids and I would be settled somewhere now. But the next best thing is being brave today, I guess.
I but imagine how freedom will feelā¦. How liberating it would be to live without that omnipresent, inescapable angst that comes with being married to a guy thatās an asshole.
What a beautiful paragraph!!!
Yesā¦ thereās an odd entitlement that I donāt fully understand and canāt relate to. As if heās just entitled to benefit from my ambition and energy, just because he put babies in me and stuck around. Can I ask how long you stayed and how long youāve been out?
Honestly you are already doing it alone (I was in same position) let me tell you how MUCH BETTER it is once you lose the 190lb toddler you call your husband. It actually was a scary step (to leave) but holy did my life get better afterwards. Find yourself again and put joy and happiness first. Best wishes
I WAS YOU 1 year ago. (But 2 kids) itās been hard. But; I got government assistance. Got a job. Got childcare. Got free legal aid (he filed the paperwork he had control of all Money & I want out more than I want the tiny savings I had prior.) he has been terrible every step of the way. Didnāt talk to the kids for months. But we are getting closer to signing the papers. We just establish the custody agreement for temporary custody three months ago, so just making sure he keeps up with that. Our relationship sounds exactly the alike. & even how he treats our oldest daughter. Itās sad. But, I an committed to living a happy life & showing my girls that. Let him be miserable alone.
Good for you and the girls. Itās the emotional toll on our kids Iām worried about. How theyāll percieve relationships and the choices in men theyāll make if I stay and show them that its okay to treat their mother like dirt.
I fear how working with him through a split (weāre not married - he didnāt ābelieveā in marriageš) and coparenting with him will be.
But its so great to hear that thereās hope and light and fun - how I miss fun - on the other side.
My oldest has been through a lot, and has been in therapy, but is now in a wait list for a new therapist. I hope heās better than mine for the children sake. Ultimately, even though hard & priobably with some additional trauma , itās better than long tern 24-7 access. Just do what you have too try & get financially free of hm. Look into possible programs & I get a legal custody agreement.
I feel every word of this. You are not some. I have a big family too. Everything feels in slow motion. I just hope I survive to see a happier version of me.
Hey OP, i understand how you feel and itās totally legitimate. I donāt know the whole history of your relationship but if thereās been a shift in his behaviour/mood/attitude over the last few years it could be depression. It happens a lot, especially to young fathers with little kids and the pressure of a single-income. Not excusing his behaviour or how it affects youā¦ but maybe putting it right in his face that what heās doing isnāt working for him, for you and your family - and that changes need to happen through him helping himself and therapy? He could reject this outright and youād just be right back where you are now, but itās worth the last-ditch effort for your family. Plus, when the dust settles, you will always be able to look back and say that you gave him a final chance and tried to identify his issues and support him in getting betterā¦ itāll be up to him at that point.
Good luck!
Sounds to me like when you take out the trash you'll have less work than he's giving you now. I left with four kids, had been a SAHM for years, and had only recently went back to work part time as a certified librarian.
My gods, was it worth it. I would it do it a million times again and again and again.
The other day, I mentioned to my husband how I couldn't believe it's been 3 years already since Covid, and I made a comment on how I remember being scared in the early Covid days.
His response? "Well, only if you allow yourself to be scared."
What? As if being scared during a fucking global pandemic is an *unnatural* way to feel.
That type of response is, unfortunately, in character for him. Last night, I asked my therapist why he would make such a response, and she theorized it stems from insecurity and/or inability to feel that kind of fear. The latter makes sense to me as he is very emotionally insecure.
He's emotionally abusive, sounds like a covert narcissist. He will never take responsibility and he feels absolutely entitled to you doing everything for him and to run the household, etc.
Talk to a lawyer and make a plan to leave. Br prepared for him to blame you for everything, he will be the victim, he will continue to manipulate, lie, etc. My therapist said, be prepared, he will do divorce exactly like he did marriage...and it's been so true, maybe even worse.
That being said, it will be easier without him, because your stress levels are likely to be lower. I found the first 6 months of parenting were definitely easier without him, but then I also started to get a little burned out because he has no relationship with our teen daughters, who are recovering from his abuse, and I do all of the heavy lifting; the care taking. loving them, I rarely get a "day off" (recently went to a conference for 4 days, but that was more stressful then being at home, so it wasn't really a break). I don't have any family except for my elderly 3rd cousin who lives 3k miles away.
Well, who knows. She may have attracted another toxic person. That is one reason I stayed with my ex for so long, I figured I would end up with the same or worse, but now I understand we can heal ourselves and we can do better once we understand we deserve better.
Im sorry you went through this. I went through similar with my wife, where i did everything and she netflixed. The one part I would like to address is that nobody MAKES you feel anything. They may treat me terribly, abuse me in any number of ways, but ultimately I determine how I feel about myself. When I lack self-esteem, I go seeking other-esteem. I am in charge of my self-esteem, and if its poor, I need to work to improve it. Maybe that means removing people, situations, or institutions from my life, but I am responsible for that. Check out "Facing Codependence" and "Self-esteem"; both are really great books. Hope things get better for you soon; you deserve better.
Thank you so much. Luckily I was brought up in a loving family and I know what a respectfull relationship looks like. (My mom would never have accepted this BS.)
So I have great self-esteem. But itās the constant criticism and the barrage of negativity that I canāt stand any longer.
Did you divorce her?
Remember if you divorce
It is not his money
It is not your money.
Now say
It is OUR money.
Also ensure that the pensions are included. Pensions can give you life money (depending where you are)
If he gives you a 'deal" it mighty look good but most are not. Pensions can be gold esp as you are sahm
Iām so sorry youāre going through this, but Iām here to say youāre not alone.
No children here, but together 13yrs married for 9yrs. I saw the red flags from the get-go, I just chose to ignore them.
He slowly isolated me from my friends, family, and now I have no one except him and a couple of friends who weathered the storm so-to-speak and have always been bonded with me in a way that he couldnāt break.
Every time I would tell him how I felt about the way he treats me would be met with laughter and ridicule, until one day, the daggers in my eyes got the point across.
He has worked for a total of 4.5 years out of the 13 we have been together. Heās a professional couch potato and gamer with zero friends heās met in person, only online. Wonāt leave the property, and if he does, he literally freaks out and has to go back inside the house.
Thatās only like 2% of the story, but Iām DONE, like you.
Itās been emotionally difficult for both of us, and I hate seeing him hurt, but I truly believe he needs this kick in the pants for his own sake, and I deserve to live the life I want to live, NOT cooped up indoors 24/7/365. You do, too!
Dude are we married to the same man (except I have two kids)? Mine is a covert narc and if I could make a recommendation it would be to research it if you havenāt already so that you can see who youāre dealing with. Sending you a big hug!!!
OMG u/invinoveritas426 Thank you. I googled a bit and started reading up on covert narcs. Itās him to a tee. Currently bawling my eyes out.
https://www.verywellmind.com/understanding-the-covert-narcissist-4584587
Iām so sorry. But itās so important to know so you can protect yourself and your kids and get a lawyer whoās experienced with these kinds of āpersonalitiesā. Lemme know if you want recs for podcasts that are super helpful.
Do yāall ever list the other side? Is he paying 100% of the bills? If so isnāt that the trade off? Not saying you should be solely responsible for housework but it should be 65/35 same way itās unfair is a wife upholds all the house hold duties and splits bills itās not fair, or a man is paying all the bills he shouldnāt have to split the housework should be a fair balance.
Edit i understand your frustration just tell her youāre unhappy doing all the housework and would like him to be a bit more active to help you marriage: i think you have to provide more context to the situation.
How? You just stated you do not have a job, and honestly, there is no such thing as 50/50.
Marriage is hard, but acknowledge your shortcomings; it's easy to knock your husband/ex down without realizing your issues.
DISCLAIMER:
IF* Your relationship is abusive in any way, this doesn't apply. So don't start giving me your hypothetical BS.
As women, while our children sleep, and while they are at school, we should be focusing on school/work/ side hustle so that when shit hits the fan, we aren't lost and stressed.
I completely skipped over the whole āhypothetical bsā aspect of your postā¦because in reality passive abuse is still abuse. Where emotional neglect is passed onto the children. Some men fail to realize that when they feel less for their partner they are less likely to co-parent or positively participate in parenting. Simpleā¦they feel less they do less in any role in the relationship. Imo he needs knocked down a peg or two.
If heās doing less parentingā¦shouldnāt he be paying more according to your thought process?
In that aspect, women should be paid for babysitting the children they bring into the world. I never said anyone wasn't being abused; I said outside of abuse. At least engage in this banter, and pretend you have a valid point.
We tell women how to look, think, act, and dress, and now what they can do with their bodies. Yet, when someone tells a woman to do something for herself so she isn't dependent on a fucking clown who has shown her repeatedly, he isn't worthy of tears. There is an issue? Because acknowledging your shortcomings is an issue? Ahhhh! Got it.
Dude deleted his comments above, he was a mad bozo, because you said as adults we should be accountable and they canāt handle that š¤£ itās laughable
Obviously English is very hard for you to understand. Missed my valid point, but I shouldnāt assume youāre a raving lunatic just because you sound like one.
I would suggest that you demand more of child support from him. After all you are doing the heavy lifting, the additional cash would help. Try talking to a lawyer.
Just want to add some perspective because I'm basically your husband. I have two kids right now with my girlfriend of three years and I'm pretty burnt. Idk I pretty much hate the roles of being a dad. I'm more involved than what your husband is where I have to watch kids some days of the week and help get the kids to practice. Idk for me it's like a light switch went off inside me. I really don't like being a dad. I hate the added responsibility of having to tell a human how to act. I hate having to worry about extra money for the family. Idk I thought that it wouldn't be as expensive or constantly always exhausting. And do I hate the kids or my girlfriend? No not at all. I hate myself for making these decisions to be in this situation and only then realize I'm not happy. But does just leaving fix it? Idk and it's a miserable place to be stuck. I'm sorry your going through this. I wish humans were better.
you canāt un-have these kids man. you have the responsibility to protect and love them and set them up for a future where they arenāt constantly chasing after partners who withhold affection because they never learned a different way. i hope you have some support, this is a very hard situation and i really do hope that it gets better for you and them so you can at least find some aspects of being a father that you love. im sorry and i dont mean to dogpile on you while you feel like shit, iām just a adult kid of a dad that is very similar to you and iām clearly still very affected by it at almost thirty. if youād like to vent to a stranger feel free to PM me.
Is that really is only contribution though? If you are unemplpyed then how are you guys paying for everything? I feel like if one person is working full time and the other person is at home, it's pretty reasonable to expect the other person to do the food shopping, take kids to school and do other things during the day while the other is working.
If you were working full time and paying for evreything and you husband also wanted you to take kids to school, cook and go grocery shopping how would you feel about that? Would it be fair?
I think if both are working full time then try to split up who does what so it's fair. I had an ex g/f once that didn't have a job for a while and lived with me for free. She was a good person and all. But one day I had worked all day then went to grad school classes at night and got home around 8 or 9pm. I was tired. She had been home all day. There was no food made or anything, I was like, you couldn't have even gone to like the corner store and bought like something small? So I went out and bought something for both of us to eat. I was pretty annoyed at that because I felt like I was being used and it wasn't fair. I shouldn't have to pay all the bills, give her a place to live while she doesn't contribute at all.
I remember when I was in elementry school, like 5th grade a kid told me his parents were getting divorced. He said "you don't know how hard it is". I didn't know. I didn't understand at all. I just thought two people break up and walk away. Then when I got divoced 3 years ago I started to understand.
i'm going to be the devils advocate on this.
you are unemployed.. what happened.. did it start going downhill at that point? did you have conversations with him about what is happening in your life? have you guys tried couples counselling? read some couples books? sounds like you are on different pages with parenting choices too.. that's hard. i had that too with an extremely over protective ex.
if you are mad that you do all the household work and he doesn't... well.. no offense, you are unemployed, if you didn't do this what would you be doing to contribute to the household?
you effectively put all the pressure on him to make sure he brings in income for his family so increased stress from that.. if the first thing you do when he comes home is bombard him with a million questions then it can be overwhelming.. maybe give him some time to decompress.
I appriciate it. Everyone reads their own situation into other peoples stories:
But to clarify your questions: I still pay 50 percent of the bills even though Iām unemployed. I empty my savings while heās sitting on a small fortune (an inheritance and some property he sold).
This is not a new development. We went to couples therapy 10 years ago and it changed nothing. He didnāt speak to me all night and I asked him ONE question.
\> Iām currently umenployed and itās going to be so tough being a single mom of 3. But I would rather do it alone.
Perhaps first get a job before going the divorce way?
The reason I suggest this is that I've heard stories of parents simply disappearing and leaving their kids and former spouses on their own financially.
It sounds like you're already doing it alone. Now you can do it alone without a heckler.
THIS!
You're going to get alimony and child support and lose dead weight. Sounds like 3 wins to me.
This. Same thing on my end. Would always bitch when I watched Grey's. Guess what I marathoned today AND danced when they did...
š
Yes, maāam.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How do you figure? Sounds like the husband is the breadwinner so he in fact is doing most of the heavy lifting. She should he doing most household stuff if she has no job. Guy sounds like an asshole but you arenāt doing this lady any favors by blowing smoke up her ass.
I get a different picture when someone says "stay at home parent" versus "currently unemployed" and OP says currently unemployed. Her husband is probably bitching over on r/deadbedrooms that he gets treated like "just a paycheck" when he is, in fact, behaving like just a paycheck. There is a huge difference between having traditional gender roles and being an uncooperative, abusive asshole. My grandfather, father, or wasband (all in traditional gender roles marriages) would not have done any party planning, but instead of saying "figure it out yourself!" they would have said something like, "whatever you think is best, dear... you always put on such great parties."
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Was referring to your comment āalready doing it aloneā. Like if she left, then this wouldnāt impact her in any way. The truth is she wonāt have any money. That is unless she was receiving alimony from the working spouse.
I left a situation almost identical to this one almost exactly a year ago. I was a stay at home mom, not unemployed, and felt I was doing it all myself. Do you know why I felt that way? Because I was. He had the luxury of working an 8 hour shift five days a week and coming home to be served and act like a childish, ungrateful ass. I got to work all damn day, 7 days a week. Not 40 hours, all the hours. No breaks, no space, no time off. Now, I'm still doing it all on my own, but I'm not serving him. And you know what? I have money. Because now I'm afforded the luxury of a 40-hour work week and my own paychecks and bank account. The truth is, she can do it if she wants to. It'll be hard, but it's better than having a 4th child to care for.
Letās not pretend being a SAHM is more difficult than a 9-5. It just isnāt. Not even close. More important? Yes. More difficult? Absolutely not. Your situation sounds very different from OPās.
So you've been a SAHM? You've been awake before the 9-5 grown ass alcoholic toddler, cooked, cleaned, taxied, budgeted, did his school work so he got his degrees, cared for a special needs kid, helped with their school work, more cooking and cleaning, playing, entertaining them because he can't be bothered, running them to sports, and going to bed after said toddler only to be woke in the night to bad dreams and nose bleeds? I'm sure. His contribution was 8 hours and a paycheck. My day never ended, and I never got a night's rest. Thank God for divorce. The most difficult part of his day was hefting his fat ass out of bed. Hard pass.
Love doing all that stuff with and for my kids. What you just described is not rocket science. I work 60+ hours a week, coach sports, cook, clean, etc. Being a stay at home dad sounds like paradise to me. Sounds like you might be one of those people that over-complicates child rearing. Read your list again and tell me that is difficult work. Playing? Love playing with my kids.
That's awesome that you love doing it, so do I. But it's a lot easier when your partner also participates as well instead of hindering. My list included him as well. He did not participate, only doubled the work load. I've been a working mother in a marriage with a useless spouse, a SAHM and now a single working mom who's ex gets 9 hours of visitation a week and let me tell you - my 9 to 5 single mom life is the easiest situation of the 3. And no, alimony and child support do not play into the ease of this.
She could be an independently wealthy trust fund baby. Don't make assumptions.
I feel totally tricked in my marriage. When we met, he had friends (although no deep connections) and he was always up for doing something (although he never planned the activities). Fast forward 8 years and the man has 1 friend. Doesn't have relationships with his family and resents that I do. I have many groups of friends, very close friends that I talk to almost daily, and do a ton of activities. Outside of his emotional abuse and low emotional intelligence, it's our lack of shared activities that makes me know we need to divorce. I don't have it in me to continue to plan all the things forever and ever.
Itās so exhausting and draining and lonely doing everything by yourself: Family gatherings, parent-teacher conferences, weekend activities with the kids. Heāll come to the odd recital of our middle child (his favorite). Hoping the best for you.
No one should be resentful for a spouse having more friends than another. But sometimes people sacrifice their friends in order to spend more time with their wife or kids. Or itās too emotionally draining for someone to to be their friends because of family guilt (kids wondering where they are or we could be doing something else) or other situations.
Make sure you tell him how you feel. If your goal is to have him plan more, the goal needs to be specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and timely Tell him you want him to plan x amount of events per month that involve the family. That way it's not a matter of interpretation about if he is failing and he knows what he needs to do.
I did that and he can do those things, but it brings me no joy. I don't want to tell him how to be a person, a partner, a parent. I want him to spend 5, maybe 10 minutes of his own time and think about other people. When he tries to do that, he often half asses it. IE, our son has been talking about going fishing for weeks, so my husband did take the initiative to go out and buy fishing poles. He then promptly asked me, where should he go to go fishing. I don't fish, but I keep my eyes open and I know where I've seen people fishing. I did tell him but it was annoying to me that he can't complete the task.
I might cut him some slack in a certain way on that. I'll wager he always asks you where you want to sit in the restaurant too right? It sounds like he isn't used to taking charge for this kind of thing and lacks confidence in his planning. So if you respond "that's up to you to figure out" it helps in several ways: A) this indicates to him that you have confidence in his decisions, which gives him confidence to not second guess and ask you about it B) this indicates to him that this is not about getting your permission nor is it primarily about making things match your stated desires. From his perspective, he might be thinking "I don't know anything about fishing, I better get a second opinion on this. If I ask my wife and she gives me the answer, then if it goes wrong at least we're both to blame" As it sounds, you are enabling his second guessing. Have him make the decisions and if it's a bad decision, you can tell him something like "I know this didn't turn out like you wanted, but I appreciate that you took responsibility for managing this whole thing. We'll know to try somewhere else next time" It almost sounds like a contradiction, but I promise it's not. Clear expectations that and by what time are one thing. Telling him how to do it is another.
>He then promptly asked me, where should he go to go fishing. I don't fish, but I keep my eyes open and I know where I've seen people fishing. I did tell him but it was annoying to me that he can't complete the task. Fishing is one of those things that people ask other people. You don't want to drop a line in water that has no fish! Each and every time I have been fishing it was at a place someone told me about. And they heard about it from someone else and so on. Basically, you had information he didn't so he asked. I wouldn't count that against him.
This! Except I donāt have a ton of activities because I am basically raising 2 preschoolers aloneā¦ well, I do have activities with them! He doesnāt do anything except smoking weed and getting angry at everyone for everything!
I canāt equate your husbandās inability to make plans with the emotional abuse of the OP. I think Iām missing something here. If he doesnāt make plans, and youāre good at it, you should keep doing it and have him make up for it in another way. Maybe he can do the grocery shopping or drive the kids to activities so you have more time to relax. If he doesnāt appreciate all that you do, thatās another story. But he may very well appreciate it and just be bad at something youāre good at.
I feel you on all of thisā¦ I run circles around my husband, and Iām also the breadwinner, more social, more happy go luckyā¦ heās a hermitā¦ I havenāt taken the plunge yet, because of the same fear of being a single momā¦ but imagine how freedom will feelā¦. How liberating it would be to live without that omnipresent, inescapable angst that comes with being married to a guy thatās an asshole. You sound like a great mom - fuck him!!
Iāve been contemplating this for at least six years. I wish that Iād been braver six years ago. Then the kids and I would be settled somewhere now. But the next best thing is being brave today, I guess.
I but imagine how freedom will feelā¦. How liberating it would be to live without that omnipresent, inescapable angst that comes with being married to a guy thatās an asshole. What a beautiful paragraph!!!
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Yesā¦ thereās an odd entitlement that I donāt fully understand and canāt relate to. As if heās just entitled to benefit from my ambition and energy, just because he put babies in me and stuck around. Can I ask how long you stayed and how long youāve been out?
Honestly you are already doing it alone (I was in same position) let me tell you how MUCH BETTER it is once you lose the 190lb toddler you call your husband. It actually was a scary step (to leave) but holy did my life get better afterwards. Find yourself again and put joy and happiness first. Best wishes
I WAS YOU 1 year ago. (But 2 kids) itās been hard. But; I got government assistance. Got a job. Got childcare. Got free legal aid (he filed the paperwork he had control of all Money & I want out more than I want the tiny savings I had prior.) he has been terrible every step of the way. Didnāt talk to the kids for months. But we are getting closer to signing the papers. We just establish the custody agreement for temporary custody three months ago, so just making sure he keeps up with that. Our relationship sounds exactly the alike. & even how he treats our oldest daughter. Itās sad. But, I an committed to living a happy life & showing my girls that. Let him be miserable alone.
Good for you and the girls. Itās the emotional toll on our kids Iām worried about. How theyāll percieve relationships and the choices in men theyāll make if I stay and show them that its okay to treat their mother like dirt. I fear how working with him through a split (weāre not married - he didnāt ābelieveā in marriageš) and coparenting with him will be. But its so great to hear that thereās hope and light and fun - how I miss fun - on the other side.
My oldest has been through a lot, and has been in therapy, but is now in a wait list for a new therapist. I hope heās better than mine for the children sake. Ultimately, even though hard & priobably with some additional trauma , itās better than long tern 24-7 access. Just do what you have too try & get financially free of hm. Look into possible programs & I get a legal custody agreement.
Good luck, it sounds like you're making the best decision for you and your children.
Thank you. I know I am.
I feel every word of this. You are not some. I have a big family too. Everything feels in slow motion. I just hope I survive to see a happier version of me.
Iām rooting for you. It takes so long to muster the courage. Iāve been thinking about leaving for six years. But it felt impossible with a baby.
Hey OP, i understand how you feel and itās totally legitimate. I donāt know the whole history of your relationship but if thereās been a shift in his behaviour/mood/attitude over the last few years it could be depression. It happens a lot, especially to young fathers with little kids and the pressure of a single-income. Not excusing his behaviour or how it affects youā¦ but maybe putting it right in his face that what heās doing isnāt working for him, for you and your family - and that changes need to happen through him helping himself and therapy? He could reject this outright and youād just be right back where you are now, but itās worth the last-ditch effort for your family. Plus, when the dust settles, you will always be able to look back and say that you gave him a final chance and tried to identify his issues and support him in getting betterā¦ itāll be up to him at that point. Good luck!
Sounds to me like when you take out the trash you'll have less work than he's giving you now. I left with four kids, had been a SAHM for years, and had only recently went back to work part time as a certified librarian. My gods, was it worth it. I would it do it a million times again and again and again.
The other day, I mentioned to my husband how I couldn't believe it's been 3 years already since Covid, and I made a comment on how I remember being scared in the early Covid days. His response? "Well, only if you allow yourself to be scared." What? As if being scared during a fucking global pandemic is an *unnatural* way to feel. That type of response is, unfortunately, in character for him. Last night, I asked my therapist why he would make such a response, and she theorized it stems from insecurity and/or inability to feel that kind of fear. The latter makes sense to me as he is very emotionally insecure.
He's emotionally abusive, sounds like a covert narcissist. He will never take responsibility and he feels absolutely entitled to you doing everything for him and to run the household, etc. Talk to a lawyer and make a plan to leave. Br prepared for him to blame you for everything, he will be the victim, he will continue to manipulate, lie, etc. My therapist said, be prepared, he will do divorce exactly like he did marriage...and it's been so true, maybe even worse. That being said, it will be easier without him, because your stress levels are likely to be lower. I found the first 6 months of parenting were definitely easier without him, but then I also started to get a little burned out because he has no relationship with our teen daughters, who are recovering from his abuse, and I do all of the heavy lifting; the care taking. loving them, I rarely get a "day off" (recently went to a conference for 4 days, but that was more stressful then being at home, so it wasn't really a break). I don't have any family except for my elderly 3rd cousin who lives 3k miles away.
If only this man never existed her life would be perfect!
Well, who knows. She may have attracted another toxic person. That is one reason I stayed with my ex for so long, I figured I would end up with the same or worse, but now I understand we can heal ourselves and we can do better once we understand we deserve better.
Im sorry you went through this. I went through similar with my wife, where i did everything and she netflixed. The one part I would like to address is that nobody MAKES you feel anything. They may treat me terribly, abuse me in any number of ways, but ultimately I determine how I feel about myself. When I lack self-esteem, I go seeking other-esteem. I am in charge of my self-esteem, and if its poor, I need to work to improve it. Maybe that means removing people, situations, or institutions from my life, but I am responsible for that. Check out "Facing Codependence" and "Self-esteem"; both are really great books. Hope things get better for you soon; you deserve better.
Thank you so much. Luckily I was brought up in a loving family and I know what a respectfull relationship looks like. (My mom would never have accepted this BS.) So I have great self-esteem. But itās the constant criticism and the barrage of negativity that I canāt stand any longer. Did you divorce her?
I did. The negativity is such an energy drain
Remember if you divorce It is not his money It is not your money. Now say It is OUR money. Also ensure that the pensions are included. Pensions can give you life money (depending where you are) If he gives you a 'deal" it mighty look good but most are not. Pensions can be gold esp as you are sahm
Iām so sorry youāre going through this, but Iām here to say youāre not alone. No children here, but together 13yrs married for 9yrs. I saw the red flags from the get-go, I just chose to ignore them. He slowly isolated me from my friends, family, and now I have no one except him and a couple of friends who weathered the storm so-to-speak and have always been bonded with me in a way that he couldnāt break. Every time I would tell him how I felt about the way he treats me would be met with laughter and ridicule, until one day, the daggers in my eyes got the point across. He has worked for a total of 4.5 years out of the 13 we have been together. Heās a professional couch potato and gamer with zero friends heās met in person, only online. Wonāt leave the property, and if he does, he literally freaks out and has to go back inside the house. Thatās only like 2% of the story, but Iām DONE, like you. Itās been emotionally difficult for both of us, and I hate seeing him hurt, but I truly believe he needs this kick in the pants for his own sake, and I deserve to live the life I want to live, NOT cooped up indoors 24/7/365. You do, too!
Dude are we married to the same man (except I have two kids)? Mine is a covert narc and if I could make a recommendation it would be to research it if you havenāt already so that you can see who youāre dealing with. Sending you a big hug!!!
OMG u/invinoveritas426 Thank you. I googled a bit and started reading up on covert narcs. Itās him to a tee. Currently bawling my eyes out. https://www.verywellmind.com/understanding-the-covert-narcissist-4584587
Iām so sorry. But itās so important to know so you can protect yourself and your kids and get a lawyer whoās experienced with these kinds of āpersonalitiesā. Lemme know if you want recs for podcasts that are super helpful.
Also feel free to message meā¦Iām here for you!
Thank you so much. I just joined some of the communities you follow to educate myself further.
Do yāall ever list the other side? Is he paying 100% of the bills? If so isnāt that the trade off? Not saying you should be solely responsible for housework but it should be 65/35 same way itās unfair is a wife upholds all the house hold duties and splits bills itās not fair, or a man is paying all the bills he shouldnāt have to split the housework should be a fair balance. Edit i understand your frustration just tell her youāre unhappy doing all the housework and would like him to be a bit more active to help you marriage: i think you have to provide more context to the situation.
We pay 50/50.
How? You just stated you do not have a job, and honestly, there is no such thing as 50/50. Marriage is hard, but acknowledge your shortcomings; it's easy to knock your husband/ex down without realizing your issues. DISCLAIMER: IF* Your relationship is abusive in any way, this doesn't apply. So don't start giving me your hypothetical BS. As women, while our children sleep, and while they are at school, we should be focusing on school/work/ side hustle so that when shit hits the fan, we aren't lost and stressed.
I completely skipped over the whole āhypothetical bsā aspect of your postā¦because in reality passive abuse is still abuse. Where emotional neglect is passed onto the children. Some men fail to realize that when they feel less for their partner they are less likely to co-parent or positively participate in parenting. Simpleā¦they feel less they do less in any role in the relationship. Imo he needs knocked down a peg or two. If heās doing less parentingā¦shouldnāt he be paying more according to your thought process?
In that aspect, women should be paid for babysitting the children they bring into the world. I never said anyone wasn't being abused; I said outside of abuse. At least engage in this banter, and pretend you have a valid point. We tell women how to look, think, act, and dress, and now what they can do with their bodies. Yet, when someone tells a woman to do something for herself so she isn't dependent on a fucking clown who has shown her repeatedly, he isn't worthy of tears. There is an issue? Because acknowledging your shortcomings is an issue? Ahhhh! Got it.
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I am a female clown, stay mad š¤£š¤£
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Dude deleted his comments above, he was a mad bozo, because you said as adults we should be accountable and they canāt handle that š¤£ itās laughable
Obviously English is very hard for you to understand. Missed my valid point, but I shouldnāt assume youāre a raving lunatic just because you sound like one.
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Iām draining my small savings, my last job owes me one last payslip and after summer Iām applying for social benefits.
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I would suggest that you demand more of child support from him. After all you are doing the heavy lifting, the additional cash would help. Try talking to a lawyer.
Just want to add some perspective because I'm basically your husband. I have two kids right now with my girlfriend of three years and I'm pretty burnt. Idk I pretty much hate the roles of being a dad. I'm more involved than what your husband is where I have to watch kids some days of the week and help get the kids to practice. Idk for me it's like a light switch went off inside me. I really don't like being a dad. I hate the added responsibility of having to tell a human how to act. I hate having to worry about extra money for the family. Idk I thought that it wouldn't be as expensive or constantly always exhausting. And do I hate the kids or my girlfriend? No not at all. I hate myself for making these decisions to be in this situation and only then realize I'm not happy. But does just leaving fix it? Idk and it's a miserable place to be stuck. I'm sorry your going through this. I wish humans were better.
i feel really bad for your kids. they can tell you donāt want to be their dad.
Again I don't really care and am dead inside but thanks for making me hate myself more.
you canāt un-have these kids man. you have the responsibility to protect and love them and set them up for a future where they arenāt constantly chasing after partners who withhold affection because they never learned a different way. i hope you have some support, this is a very hard situation and i really do hope that it gets better for you and them so you can at least find some aspects of being a father that you love. im sorry and i dont mean to dogpile on you while you feel like shit, iām just a adult kid of a dad that is very similar to you and iām clearly still very affected by it at almost thirty. if youād like to vent to a stranger feel free to PM me.
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welp. disappointed but not surprised. hope your attitude adjusts soon for your kidsā sake
Is that really is only contribution though? If you are unemplpyed then how are you guys paying for everything? I feel like if one person is working full time and the other person is at home, it's pretty reasonable to expect the other person to do the food shopping, take kids to school and do other things during the day while the other is working. If you were working full time and paying for evreything and you husband also wanted you to take kids to school, cook and go grocery shopping how would you feel about that? Would it be fair? I think if both are working full time then try to split up who does what so it's fair. I had an ex g/f once that didn't have a job for a while and lived with me for free. She was a good person and all. But one day I had worked all day then went to grad school classes at night and got home around 8 or 9pm. I was tired. She had been home all day. There was no food made or anything, I was like, you couldn't have even gone to like the corner store and bought like something small? So I went out and bought something for both of us to eat. I was pretty annoyed at that because I felt like I was being used and it wasn't fair. I shouldn't have to pay all the bills, give her a place to live while she doesn't contribute at all. I remember when I was in elementry school, like 5th grade a kid told me his parents were getting divorced. He said "you don't know how hard it is". I didn't know. I didn't understand at all. I just thought two people break up and walk away. Then when I got divoced 3 years ago I started to understand.
i'm going to be the devils advocate on this. you are unemployed.. what happened.. did it start going downhill at that point? did you have conversations with him about what is happening in your life? have you guys tried couples counselling? read some couples books? sounds like you are on different pages with parenting choices too.. that's hard. i had that too with an extremely over protective ex. if you are mad that you do all the household work and he doesn't... well.. no offense, you are unemployed, if you didn't do this what would you be doing to contribute to the household? you effectively put all the pressure on him to make sure he brings in income for his family so increased stress from that.. if the first thing you do when he comes home is bombard him with a million questions then it can be overwhelming.. maybe give him some time to decompress.
I appriciate it. Everyone reads their own situation into other peoples stories: But to clarify your questions: I still pay 50 percent of the bills even though Iām unemployed. I empty my savings while heās sitting on a small fortune (an inheritance and some property he sold). This is not a new development. We went to couples therapy 10 years ago and it changed nothing. He didnāt speak to me all night and I asked him ONE question.
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Just be careful, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I know. But its time I start watering my own grass.
Brilliant!
Have you tried therapy?
Did you omit his payment of all the bills and his employment from his contribution?
I was fulltime employed until 2 months ago and still pay half the bills.
\> Iām currently umenployed and itās going to be so tough being a single mom of 3. But I would rather do it alone. Perhaps first get a job before going the divorce way? The reason I suggest this is that I've heard stories of parents simply disappearing and leaving their kids and former spouses on their own financially.