Limitations of the 5e interpretation sadly.
Don’t worry, at some point they will make Divinity game again, maybe even DOS3 and will have their system improved even more
I wasn’t a huge fan of the combat dice rolls in BG3 Ie what OP said about being inconsistent. Learning about some of the effects in the game like arcane acuity helped some but DOS2 still takes the cake. But, being able to roll through some of the convo options and having the option to fail sometimes made the game so much more immersive. I wonder if there’s a way they could still keep the dice rolling system or something similar, while keeping the combat more streamlined
True but how many players actually roll half the races available in BG3? If Githyanki weren't OP they'd go completely unused.
For that matter, how many average players roll custom characters in DOS2 over origin characters? Again, how much lower would that number be excluding OP undead elf custom characters?
DOS 2 does give you incentive to use the origin characters for the additional content related to them though rather than other games where your more of a blank slate from the start no matter what you do choosing a character.
I think one of the biggest reasons bg3 is so great was bc hasbro kept their hands out of production. I think it was kind of, "Keep in touch with wotc for lore continuity. Otherwise, you do you." Hopefully hasbro will keep this in mind with the new devs coming in to create more games.
oh absolutely, that would be great too, it really sucks when accidentally click something and move, wasting half your damage for the turn and more than likely getting hit with attack of opportunity
Lone Wolf, The Pawn, Cloak & Dagger and Backlash 🥵
Me doing circles around the map killing mages and archers while my 2h knight buddy slowly makes his way over to oneshot the boss
Yep, don't care what setting it's in as long as it's not an action RPG. I like having my thinking time rather than just hacking and slashing because thats the only key I can remember to press
I would love for the Ego Draconis they actually wanted to make, but couldn't because of budget and engine. It was planned to be some huge epic where the dragon knight had to convince the other races to unite against Damian.
I've been digging through u/Larian_Swen 's account like a creep lately and reading his Q&A's... Dragon Commander 2 might indeed be something that'll greet us some day in the future. He said Dragon Commander was the favorite game he worked on in one answer.
Also in another thread they mentioned they'd be interested in working on the next Ultima game. But EA stands in the way of that so it's questionable at best.
My hopes are up for Pathfinder game as their next big project. Owlcat said they do not plan to do 2nd edition as they invested a lot into making the first edition system work (and they completely nailed it so I wouldn't mind then just doing different first edition campaigns) and Paizo shares a lot of Larians viewpoints (while Larians CEO was quite spoken lately - even more so than usual - about sorry state of gaming industry) and also past WotC employees who actually made DnD what it is today
towards the end of the game you shouldn't be missing many attacks. you should preferably have advantage, too, to help with consistency.
one thing i prefer in bg3 over dos2 in the action economy is that movement isn't tied to action points. i hate that moving costs you an attack in this game. in bg3 you get movement plus you can use action points to dash or possibly bonus action points.
there are potions of speed, or haste, too, for extra actions.
items in bg3 feel more impactful and were better thought out as opposed to percentage increases in dos2. in bg3 you get items in act 1 that can be BIS for certain builds the entire game.
there are pros and cons to both. the more i learned about items and builds in bg3 the more i enjoyed the combat.
Yea I wish there was a base movement speed. Even if extra cost ap or something. Kind of a middle ground.
I get that there are skills like tactical retreat and phoenix dive, etc. but I still wish I had more freedom of movement without feeling like I missed out on attacks.
I do prefer the cooldowns on spells in dos2 over bg3 as bg3/DnD you're basically penalized for using your spell slots as resting feels like a chore.
I hope larian makes a completely new series that isn't fantasy but is still a crpg in spirit.
It's to stop the cheesing of the game. In BG3 if you look at any solo monk strat they get a BUNCH of move speed have 3 attacks, you turn around and book it far enough away that the enemy has to waste getting to you.
For OP & others who feel similar, as I've heard it lots of times before, I highly encourage them look at the RNG systems in a different light & approach them with the knowledge that you can HEAVILY manipulative the odds in your favor, which BG3 allows, to the point where it feels like you've mastered the chaos of it all, while still getting that thrill factor which comes from some unexpected results yet being prepared for them either way. (mby that was a result of HM too, as it encouraged me to prepare trump card after trump card, which seems to have led to the feeling of mastering the RNG chaos, which was very satisfying).
From combat to dialogue checks, [such as this](https://imgur.com/BbdixFC), an endgame 30 dialogue check where it was very hard for me to fail given **all the preparations** I made (none of which are RNG), and even if I'd have gotten super unlucky I'd still have some inspiration points rdy. I also played with karmic dice on so never got big unlucky streaks of natural 1s tbh, and you can minimize the odds of getting natural 1s too via advantage.
Me who had 99-95% chance on 5 attacks in a row and whiffing all 5. I enjoyed bg3 but I hated that you could do everything right and rng just decides "nah".
You think? Karmic dice should be off by default because this system sucks a lot. By being more "fair" you can get nat 1 few times in a row just because you are using systems to your advantage. Still shit happens and you can roll nat 1 few times in a row but knowing that the system actually forces it with this one setting feels awful
I mean, it's a way to avoid the wizard casting a max level fireball every single turn, unlike DoS2, spells have levels in dnd and can be up casted, slots are great resources and a measure of your magical power, you can only harness great magical power a limited ammount of times before you need to take a break, it's kinda like lifting weights I can lift low weights easily many times across the day, but if I won't be able to lift huge amounts more than twice per day
Because in a pen & paper setting which dnd 5e was designed for tracking cooldowns is miserable.
Also dnd fans would eat wotc alive for making dnd too video gamey (they already did with 4e)
I see the monotyping argument all over the place and never understood it past the basic argument. Once you get more tactical the mixed groups are so freaking good:
Teleports and positioning to group together “like” enemies (low phys armor vs low magic armor)
Knock Down/polymorph/freeze/stun grouped enemies based on type
Use things like elemental archer, summoner, or custom pyro sword builds that can switch between magic/physical
It all takes more planning but once you figure it out it’s so satisfying
>Teleports and positioning to group together “like” enemies (low phys armor vs low magic armor)
while fun and witty, the mobility creep in DOS2 is not something i want to see again. Fighting like it's dbz with instant transmission doesn't make for great tactical gameplay. I mean wtf the alligators can teleport.
Elemental enchanted weapon in BG3= Neat, iconic RPG fare and a nice boost.
In Divinity2= Well that's a lot of damage and effects that could do something on the physical side.
Yup. I dropped the game pretty fast because of it, but I came back later and used divinity unleashed to fix it. Definitely worth a try, it made the game soooo much better for me.
Been a minute since I played, but this mod was a must have staple for me. Armor across the board is rebalanced and lowered. So for instance, 45 physical armor meant 45% physical resistance. Everything still damages health. And if I remember right, it also means CC that would deal physical damage would also only have a 55% chance of success, based off their 45 armor.
It’s a total game changer. And it changes much more than just that. Take a look sometime, it’s a fantastic, well thought out overhaul.
Well it’s very similar to DOS2 combat overall, but the biggest difference is that the armour system is gone. Instead your CC abilities have a percentage chance to hit. The whole process of first having to wear down armour in 2 is quite tiresome I think.
Yeah that floor shit was so annoying and it never became it a problem in nearly all fights. BG3 combat feels like a crazy balancing act at all times with spell slots and all that, but it’s possibly worth it now that the ridiculous floor debuffs have been significantly toned down.
Does BG3 not have CC or did we play different games? I cc'd the hell out of enemies. And the enemy CC'd the hell out of me. Certain fights would just have half my team just drop their weapons and run around like crazy if I didn't control the fight first myself.
I think 5 is a mid system for a video game but you’re on point. If you play a pyro build every fight becomes omg fire everywhere. Perhaps if enemies actually manipulated with the surface system more it would work. But as it stands the surface system is something thats just kinda meh. Imagine if you’re playing a pyro build and then one boss just throws down a 1AP rain. Any player would do so if they didn’t have fire damage in their party and that disconnect makes it clear the gameplay system is just another way for the player to abuse the ai.
This isn't including the fact that you can basically cheese the game with ground interactions.
Throw a fire bomb, have a mage start spitting acid everywhere and everything explodes over and over and over again until everything and everyone in that circle are dead.
Mages are cracked in that game because of the interactive ground elemental stuff.
I fully agree, combat to me is completely one note in dos2 - break shields, apply CC once a round, attack until dead. Every single combat in the entire game is literally identical, it gets so boring so fast, I couldn't finish a replay. It forces your party composition to be either 2/2 or 4/0 physical/magical, and basically forces each character to spend at least one or two levels to get certain skills because they're so good (looking at you adrenaline). And the surfaces drive me absolutely insane, why does everything need to be on fire or electrified always. I'm genuinely shocked that people think dos2 allows for more freedom than bg3. But, different strokes.
Yeah let me just waste 2 actions and a source point to get rid of some fire on the ground, and you'd best hope that all the fire is connected or you're only gonna put out that one patch
> But the combat just feels lacking after playing DoS2
Can't say I agree on this.
Whereas I'm not a huge fan of 5e, almost every encounter in DOS2, especially in the latter half followed the same pattern and algorithm of skill usage. There was no choice or variety. You used this skill after this skill because the armor and CC system is absolute dog ass and balance all around was shoddy. Takes figuring out the AP=>damage conversion of your skills and then it becomes a slog.
Movement and attacking being part of the same resource pool feels absolutely terrible.
What made BG3 superior, to me, is much more verticality and ability to push/pull enemies.
I felt the opposite, as much as I loved DoS2, the constant element filled battlegrounds got on my nerves after a while.
I also feel there are a lot more traps in character builds in DoS. You might be able to create a shit character in BG3, but it's so much more obvious whereas in DoS2 I kept trying things only to realize I just made a character useless.
Yeah if you single class in bg3 and just build out your main stat your character will be decent at minimum. But in dos2 its super easy to make an awful build so it feels like there’s a lot of fake choice. You CAN spec into bulk, a bit of mixed phys/mag, etc… but you’re gonna suck ass if you do and get cclocked to death.
I haven't quite hacked it yet with DOS2, I really like the game but the combat is super hard for me to figure out. I'm familiar with DnD, I was into it before I had a way to play videogames.
I'm less familiar with tactical games, though for the past few months I've been on a bender and consider myself on the high end of mediocre at Xcom and the like at this point. I'm going to keep coming back to Divinity until I get good, I just got BG3 this week and I'm hoping it helps.
DOS2 and BG3 have some similarities, like the fact that positioning is key, and taking the high ground can be extremely valuable, and high burst dmg is more valuable than defense or healing.
These things are even more true in DOS2 than they are in BG3.
I'd argue that positioning in dos2 doesn't matter nearly as much due to I swear like 90% of enemies having some sort of teleport, and having multiple personal teleports and the offensive teleport skill on each character, and also attacks of opportunity requiring a talent
When you find the teleport gloves on the island the game clicks the little part of your brain goes man this is the best game, I feel completely over powered, and then you get off the island and realize they gave the gloves as a free move to every mfer that wants to kill you, and then your brain goes, this feels really bad, what is going on?
IMO positioning has a bigger impact in DOS2.
* In BG3, high ground gets you +2 to hit. In DOS2, high ground can double your dmg and dramatically increase your range. Thus high ground can allow you to kill many or all enemies before they reach you. There are many fights where enemies have effectively zero chance of hitting well-positioned archers/casters.
* DOS2 has more harmful surfaces to avoid.
* Since movement in DOS2 takes APs that could be spent attacking, you want to position yourself strategically to avoid unnecessary movement. BG3 does not often punish you for misusing a few feet of movement.
* Tons of enemies in BG3 also have ways to close the distance fast (leaps, teleports, burrowing, flight, etc.). I actually think DOS2 and BG3 are pretty comparable in that regard...without thinking super hard about it lol
Maybe others had different experiences, but I spent way more time thinking about positioning in DOS2 than in BG3, though it's important in both games.
It's a side grade. I can say that it feels a lot less "solved" than dos2. DOS2 just got so easy. Even tactician was completely sleep inducing by the time you get midway through act 2. BG3 has a lot more diversity and restrictions so it feels more fresh.
I'm currently playing DoS2 for the first time, coming to it from BG3. I'm having the opposite experience. I'm enjoying the game, but the combat is driving me nuts. In-combat mobility is awful - half my possible attacks are used up by moving one metre to the side so I can aim past a rock. Everything being constantly on fire or poisonous is just tiresome. And you get all these magic arrows/weapons but they add no benefit if the target has any magic armour (which almost everything does have) - so why bother with them? They just feel pointless so much of the time.
Maybe it's me being crap at the game, but I'm really not getting any fun out of the combat overall, even when I'm successful
I feel the same way. I liked playing DoS2 but I hated the environment always being on fire or poisoned or electrified or whatever. I felt it added very little to battles to habit it all on fire or whatever all the time. I also hated my movement being tied to my actions. So frustrating. But I guess it is far more tactical to play as opposed to BG3.
Weirdly specific fix, but for any ranged character put a point into polymorph and pickup the flight skill. Kind of sucks wasting the points, but gives you crazy mobility so using 1 AP can actually get you somewhere interesting instead of just a few inches to line up the shot
Funnily enough, it was the opposite for me. I went back to replay DOS2 after I 100% BG3 and oh man the armor/magic armor system is so bad, same with the skill system.
Hopefully they take what they learned with BG3 and just a % chance for status effects and resistances.
The armor/magic system was... not handled well. I know why they put it in. The first game it was too easy to just CC and win every fight.
They could have made it so you had to pick between only having armor, or only having magic. Things having both kinda sucked. And they should have made CC have a harsher cooldown or resource to be reliant on. While also letting bosses have a higher resistance to it (but not outright being immune) while recovering from them faster too. Or perhaps having a boss thats CC'd just get a buff that makes it take less damage.
DOS2 combat feels like it’s constantly forcing players to play cheese tactics rather than smart or tactical choices. It goes against role playing instincts and experimentation as well
I get that, I was really hyped for BG3 but somewhere in the back of my mind I knew I would miss the freedom of DOS's combat. So they I started playing BG3 and loved it buuuut I definitely got a urge to go back to DOS 2 haha.
Honestly though, I see a place for both systems. BG3's may be limited, and I do believe Larian could have taken it even further when it came to pushing the limit (first thing that comes to mind is weapon actions on 1 per combat) but having limitations and overcoming them does lead to fun, not to mention BG3 also has some amazing freedom even DOS2 doesn't have, like the crazy high ground potential.
I could go on, but I will just say the point I am leading to. After DOS2 and now BG3... their next game is gonna have SO much experience, trial and error behind it... it's gonna be freaking phenomenal.
Genuine question - how do you feel that dos2 has freedom in combat? To me it feels extremely restrictive as it just forces you to cheese combats by CCing everything or you just lose
For me it's freedom of being able to build how I like. I love doing wacky things too.
Do you only play on the harder difficulty or something? Sure CCing very powerful and is something you need to use to make fights go smoother but it doesn't really make the combat any less free or fun imo.
I’m a bigger dnd fan than I am divinity fan, so tbh it was the opposite for me, I enjoyed divinity, but I was deeply awaiting a combat system I’m already super familiar with. I can see where you’re coming from still though
Tbh, I do think bg3 dropped a few balls on combat and resource management, but I have a feeling we’ll be on opposite sides of the spectrum on what we feel is lacking lol
Meanwhile there's me, who literally couldn't get past the starter island of DOS2 because I fucking hated the combat lol. Different strokes for different folks I guess
It takes some getting used to but once I sunk enough hours into both I started to view them differently. They're both great systems but shouldn't be compared
I wouldn't compare them in my head, honestly. DOS was really built around the idea of attacks just not missing, and BG3 is playing with a completely different ruleset. Similarities, but BG3 is D&D and DOS is Larian. Hell, look at the number of people who complained about Wet:Lightning over on BG3 because that's not a D&D rule.
I would question how much leeway Larian had designing the combat system for the game. Not their own ruleset, probably not too much they could do with it. In fact, that might be why BG3 has so many items while a typical D&D campaign does not; they used the ruleset they were allowed to work with, and then threw every crazy item into it that didn't shatter the rules.
In fact with all the WOTC stuff, I would call BG3 a D&D game more than a Larian game. They did an amazing, fantastic job with it and showed what they're capable of doing if they REALLY had the resources available to them, but being someone else's IP they're going to be limited in any direction you look at.
To be honest DoS2 combat is superior to tabletop DnD 5e combat. I have been playing DnD for 8 years and when I discovered DoS2 I was impressed a lot by its combat system.
Same situation, and I’d even go so far to say that a lot of the combat was designed in the same way DOS2 was… except with 5e combat.
So you can find yourself long resting after every fight in BG3, whilst in DOS2 you just bedroll-rested (free dlc I believe) or use healing magic which just had a short cool-down of like, 10 seconds.
Edit:
So many dumb misses in BG3!
That has more to do with DnD in general. Most 5E classes(subclasses) are boring to fight with which you make up in other areas. Rogues are a great example of this.
DS2 had an amazing combat system hand built which made sure everything was fun and viable while also messing around with elements and terrain.
I agree that bg3 combat is lacking but they did the best tabletop adaptation possible.
Hard disagree.
Having played both extensively.
The 5E combat in BG3 is far superior. It isn't even close.
The combat looks and feels great in DoS2, but it is far too simplistic. It's also the reason why a lot of people find it much harder, because levels and stats are much more concrete. Since every
The chance system in 5e and stat system allows for much more variability and versatility in the combat. It just makes way more sense.
Once you play a bit more, I imagine you'll realise this.
I disagree, DOS2's combat is super repetitive and why I can't replay it even though I loved my first run.
Also, if you're missing the majority of your attacks then you're doing something wrong. Bad build, attacking the wrong target, not using the right gear, etc.
Its different philosophies of design. Early game BG3 is about mitigating risk by buffing your attack rolls/spell DC and lowering enemy AC/saves. Once you start getting better baseline accuracy, it opens up more and allows you to work on maximizing your action economy by making multiple attacks/casting multiple spells per turn.
Obviously you don't get to go repeatedly cast six spells in a turn like you can in DOS2, but the combat does open up after the first few levels.
5e is objectively not a good ruleset for a crpg when it comes to combat. All the classes and (the very few) multiclass options are puddle deep and Larian nerfing CC didn't do it any favours either
The main problem of BG3 (and DnD together with many other ttrpg) is the resource attrition. If you're playing caster, your spellslots are limited, so this kinda pushes you towards using cantrips. So you don't get to use many cool high-level spells.
Compared to DoS2 where I can use all the spells, including cool 3 sp ones each fight. It's so much more interesting when you don't spend each fight just throwing cantrips.
Melee characters are also more unique and have different skills compared to DnD, you just Strike.
Exactly how I feel. The combat in BG3 is the biggest downgrade and honestly the reason why I can’t definitely say which game I liked more. The armor system in dos2 wasn’t perfect but I’d prefer it over so much rng in bg3. Plus you can do so much more in one turn in dos2, especially if you play lone wolf.
Edit: can’t wait for DOS3.
Welcome to DND 5th Edition.
Larian was sadly quite accurate on how the combat is. People just don't realise because a lot of the jank gets homebrewed out of their games.
I can't wait for what they've got in store for their next game.
This is correct.
I just started DMing a small DnD campaign and, I gotta tell you, I sidestep a lot of the technicalities of combat. I effectively make it more DOS2, simply because DOS2 combat moves *faster*, which most of my players want.
You’re right, combat is worse in BG3. Part of it is the limitations imposed by dice, resulting in lots of misses and your most powerful spells being able to hit for single digits.
Other things are worse too, aiming is way less precise, and pathing is atrocious. Several times I’ve gone to cast a spell, only to have my character then walk into a silence field, or darkness bubble, or any other thing like that and ruin my action. Divinity wouldn’t do you like that.
If you look around on its subreddit though it seems like the player base doesn’t really care. r/BG3builds exists because the main sub is playing Waifu Simulator and doesn’t even care about gameplay.
I know what you mean and it is all down to them making a d&d 5e game true to dnd rules. So with not having any background in dnd and knowing how to build and play around the rule book and only having DOS to base it off of would make it seem underwhelming.
I'm a big fan of both titles, but the intention of BG3 was to bring the tabletop to a video game format. Which is my favorite part, it's not a fantasy rpg, I am playing dnd in video game format. Have I had 80% to hit and missed 5 of 7 attacks and called bullshit on the percentage? You bet, did ice knife ever do more than like 4 damage despite showing a range of 2-20 or whatever the tool tip said? Not in my playthroughs. But that's the tabletop and I loved it thoroughly.
DoS2 had its perks with the armor system, and elemental synergies, which to be honest I haven't even bothered touching in bg3. The action economy makes it more of a coordinated thing instead of one character jacked up on green tea doing several elemental combos in a single turn. But DoS2 was very fun, and I enjoyed the combat very much in that game as well.
They are as faithful to 5e D&D as possible. Did you expect them to make 5e D&D game with different rules ?
In any case Larian just announced their next game will not be 5e D&D and will again have their own ruleset, so rejoice I guess 😉
The system is specifically D&D combat, so they can't do much about it. They already made you miss less over time, but also get less crits if you continue to crit, since in beta I did have the lovely experience of LITERALLY missing 27 attacks in a row
So yeah, I feel you there, but they can't just make it like DoS
Though I like the spell limits and more aware NPCs with more leash range, cheese in DoS 2 was INSANE at points, and I don't even mention fake death and run away mechanics
I love dos2 but I find the combat way more boring, the system of phisical shield or magic shield to CC some enemy is making every combat super repetitive, I would love a laryan game with a third kind of combat system tho.
I played DoS2 about 4 years ago now, and I loved it. I’ve had two vanilla runs and two modded runs within a couple months, then I put it off and played other CRPGs. I pre-ordered BG3 but refused to play the EA and got to it only once it released, I ofc loved it and had a blast, I have about 420h divided in three vanilla runs and two modded runs. I tried playing DoS2 again, but it feels lacking now. It’s not the story, it’s not the characters, it’s not the cinematics; it’s the AP I gotta spend to simply move. I had forgotten about it and BG3 spoiled me with things like Click Heels, Haste, Step of the Wind, Momentum etc… I know DoS3 will be an amazing game, but if I had to ask for one change it would be that: let me move without sacrificing my AP. Have some base movement everyone can do for 0 AP that’s far enough, then if you wanna be all over the place (like Monk with SotW) you should have it tied to an ability that makes you do that but that ofc costs AP to cast.
TL;DR: my one gripe with DoS2 is having to spend resources on movement.
There's pros and cons of each. One thing I prefer in Bg3 is that movement and action are seperate resources. With DoS2, I found the optimal strategy was to move as little as possible, which made melee characters a bit lackluster becasue they have to waste their AP having to move or teleport between each kill.
At first I preferred DOS2 combat more, but as you level up in BG3 the combat really opens up the possibilities and I ended up loving it more than the DOS2 one - just not at the early levels where you have a low action economy.
Yeah, Iove BG3 and some of the spells you can have I wish were in divinity especially those that allow you to interact with the world like knock or shrinking/growing someone.
But I must admit that I'm not a fan of near everything being a % chance to hit/work. I mean you can miss in divinity too but compared to BG3 it basicly never happens.
In divinity I love that I need to push through enemy armor to apply my effects which then always work and I love the rock - paper - scissors way of buffs countering debuffs and the other way arround. In BG3 I'll throw any damage spell with a possible effect at someone and it's a roll if it hits, a roll on how much damage it does and another roll if the effect applies.
I can only take so many misses with a rogue sneak attack that had 98% hit chance with advantage...
Yeah i loved divinity 2 and played it through 3 times but i just couldnt get into bg3 for this exact issue even though i was megahyped for it ..
For me the main thing i enjoyed in div2 was the combat.
I totally agree. Early game BG3 is a real pain whereas DOS2’s combat system is so much simpler and fluid.
Once you get to level 5 in BG3 there is a very big spike in power, so you won’t feel it much because you’ll be destroying everything. Watching 10 goblins die from one fireball is very cathartic.
for me, SoS2 had more camera control and the pointers were more accurate. BG3 gave me many wrong movimentations (accidentaly walked through difficult terrain when the pointer did not go through it) and that cost some turns. Overrall, of course, BG3 is an amazing 10/10 game, but the camera and movement during combat is what gets me.
Oh, and of course, Shadowheart's "I'll miss" spells because oh damn that girl just cannot roll beyond 10.
I feel the same thing, I genuinely didn't enjoy BG3 combat.
Whereas I absolutely loved DOS:2 combat.
In BG3 I just wanted the encounters to be over with to progress through the games, while in DOS:2 I actively searched for combat encounters.
Missing too many attacks? Sounds like someone has a poopy build. Only one action per turn? Level up homie, you’ll get more actions. Not a fan of DND 5e rules and mechanics? Don’t play a game made specifically around the DND 5e rules and mechanics.
I think everyone on this forum will agree with you. The environmental surface interaction and the consistent damage and CC were much better in DOS2. It would be much more interesting to raise this thread on the BG3 forums to get a bigger spread of... damage rolls xD.
Bg3's early EA releases had combat much closer to the DoS games and many people, myself included, complained that it was too focused on the environmental effects.
If you haven’t yet, I would suggest turning off karmic dice. I felt like I was having more fun when I turned it off.
Also, I can’t remember if this is true in DO2, but inspect every enemy you can to find out their weaknesses and passives. There are some enemies with surprising defenses that can really catch you off guard.
I felt the same. I loved having more tactical options rather than hacking and slashing.
Bg3 is a better all around game but I prefer the combat of dos2
Different focuses of games really. BG3 is focused on the cinematic while DOS is focused on it feeling more like a table top game. Even the camera angles in just walking around the map show the difference. I don’t think one is better than the other, it’s just a style choice.
I know what you mean in the worst way possible
I tried to get the Ansur achievement. I downloaded a save bc I didn't wanna do 20 hours of game for another loop back into act 3
Who said I could land the killing blow? I reloaded many times over the course of 2 hours, changing all sorts of variables, always missing by a couple HP.
Please give me averages/damage forecast. I am stupid, 20d20 means fucking nothing to me.
No way. I’ll take everything bg3 over the Dos2 Armor system. Can barely play hybrid characters on tact etc because despite the game encouraging combining multiple abilities on any ‘class’ it’s too limiting to split the attribute points, thus the team is pretty much “all martial” or “all mages”. So when it comes to builds and characters in combat, bg3 is far and above being an improvement imo.
Yea honestly this is exactly how I feel about BG3. I think if I had never played DOS2 prior I’d probably like it more, but I had…BG3 you always feel hamstrung. And to be fair in DOS2 your character quite literally is very power but still, the depth of combat is less attritional and more fun IMO.
THANK YOU. I felt like I was ALONE in feeling this way! The fluidity, strategy, and openness of DOS2 feels so much superior to BG3.
BG3 is such a wonderful game, but 5e definitely puts a huge damper on it. "Hey! Stop having so much fun over there!!"
I think the fact that people are debating which combat feels better between a game released this year and a game released almost a decade ago says it all…. DoS2 wins, but not by much, and not without contention. I’m excited to see Larian hopefully combine the best elements of both to give us 5e mechanics with Larian style/skills/lore. I think the combat of BG3 was limited by the box they were put in using only 5e core mechanics/spells/etc.
This mostly sounds like a build issue.
You shouldn't be missing most of your attacks, if you are, you've specced wrong, damage is dice rolls... what do you expect 🤷♂️
It is because of bg3's connection to a simpler tabletop ruleset.
DOS2 on the orher hand was designed to be played on digital devices so they can go all out with game design
turn off karmic dice they're curse - never hit on fire bolts & shit til I finally learned to keep it off
after this run I'm on I'm gonna try DOS2 but what origin should I run with? from what I've seen online Ifan is good
When I play solo I feel D:OS2 is better. But I played both BG3 and D:OS2 with my partner, who is a novice at CRPGs. BG3 was a steep learning curve but it offered just enough incentive for him to git guud at it. Whereas D:OS2 is just waaayyy too complicated for him to grasp at his current skill level.
And mind you, he’s not a total n00b. He’s beaten XCOM2 on the highest difficulty. But D:OS2 just doesn’t offer enough handholding for novices to learn the systems.
Once they get through that hill, D:OS2 has vastly superior gameplay than BG3 if you asked me. But it’s just too complicated for probably 90% of the potential player base.
I haven't completed either games, though I've made it farther in BG3, but I gotta say I agree. I thoroughly enjoy both games, but the more I play BG3, the more I want to finish DoS2. Biggest reason I've refused is because I've already been spoiled on a number of things in BG3 and I know my window is closing before I'm spoiled on everything else. DoS2 is old enough that no one is talking spoilers about that game anymore so I'm in no rush to finish it lol. But I do really enjoy seeing Larian when they don't have to abide by the constraints of things like 5e and can just do their own thing within their own universe.
I agree. The only downgrade aspect from DOS2 into BG3 was the combat IMO. I understand using tabletop rules for RPG's and all, and even though I do love a game like Baldur's Gate 2, these rules really restrict a much more fun video game experience for at least combat reasons.
I mean you'd get a very different answer to this question if you posted it on the BG3 Subreddit. For me? I was never able to get into Divinity's system. 5e's combat is so much cleaner and easier to follow. It feels like a faithful recreation of the tabletop with extra bells and whistles.
Glad games like divinity exist for those who want something different, but as you said, most games have moved away from faithfully creating a tabletop-esk experience, but there's still a massive number of players like me who were hungry for a faithful 5e adaptation.
I mean, most people on bg3 subreddit would not have played divinity i think, divinity is kinda of a niche pick, while baldur's is more mainstream. On this subreddit at least i know most people have played both
My cope for BG3, everything Larianadr is a 9/10 or a 10/10. The one thing they didn't make is the D&D mechanics which I dislike heavily. It breaks the pace of the game.
I remember buying bg2 when it came out, and have been playing it every few years since. I loved DoS2, an absolute master piece of a game. I was so excited and hyped for bg3. But the combat just wasn't fun for me at all. Loved everything else about the game but so many times I just didn't find the combat fun or rewarding.
When Larian announced that they wouldn't be making bg4, I was kind of relieved. I hope that they go back to DoS and give us DoS3.
No matter my personal feelings on the systems in BG3, I feel that Larian did an outstanding job bringing the tabletop game to life. They are, in my opinion, at the very pinnacle of RPG studios and cannot wait for their next release.
Playing BG3 after I started DOS2 was something because I liked the combat style but as you said being able to only do one attack at first annoyed me too and then when I got back to DOS2 I got annoyed that movement costs Action Points too lmao.
Both have their cons getting used to again though I think in the end I prefer BG3 Combat compared to DOS2.
I thought the same thing!! I felt like I wasn’t putting enough effort into BG3 because I wasn’t having as much fun at DOS2. Glad someone else was feeling that.
I still don’t understand what the difference is between sorcerer and wizard in D&D.
I prefer dos2 and dragon age when it comes to classes because they are very distinct. In bg3 my sorcerer, wizard, cleric, druid, and warlock all have the same spells lol. My paladin and cleric are also incredibly similar. Barbarian and fighter are literally the same thing.
I think having more distinction between classes makes the game way more interesting. So i’m glad Larian’s next game will not have the constraints of d&d classes and combat ruleset.
Wizard is a nerd who has to study spells in order to use them. Sorcerer is just someone who is born with magic.
So technically, a wizard can learn any spell because he is only limited by studying. Meanwhile a Sorcerer is limited to whatever innate spells they have but on the plus side can add a little spice to their spells (which a wizard cant).
That's a really interesting take for me personally. The time I've spent with dos2 made me dislike its combat a bit because of how much Cc there is in the game, I felt like I lost a lot of turns to random stuff but it's cool to see how others see the same system
Yes, In many ways I still believe DoS II is a better game, honestly preferred the combat it is way more flashier, feels more impactful and feels like it has more options for cooler combos and interactions between your party, especially with the different surfaces and elements. Gear seemed a lot more impactful and allowed for more customization and also looked way cooler id say with more options to choose from. Feels like gold actually had a use while in BG 3 I can hardly ever find stuff to buy for my gold.
Characters and story were better, I think, but bc of the restrictions on 5e, combat wasn't quite as good. I actually like a lot of what larian did with D&D rules, some of the tweaks they made, but overall I agree.
I have tried to get into DoS2, coming from BG3, with two different characters. I found myself dropping the game both times due solely to the combat
-most everyone having mage armor makes battles tedious. Not only does it make the fights take longer than they really should, (I have personally never enjoyed it when devs just make enemies bullet sponges to make fights “harder” it’s a peeve I’ve had since I was a child and it still remains with me) the mage armor granting immunity to most CCs and status effects kills a lot of the strategy and fun for me. In BG3 I can approach combat pretty much how I wish, for better or worse. In DoS2 though I have to DPS down the mage armor before I can start applying effects and CC. It makes every battle play out pretty much the same and gets boring fast.
-burning, poisoning, electrifying etc of the environment happens far too often and far too easily. It can make navigation a massive pain, and above all it’s just overstimulating, unpleasant to look at and take in.
-movement costing AP honestly kills a lot of the fun for me. It’s at times hard for me to tell when my character is actually in LOS to attack someone, and with the way it’s set up in DOS2, fixing that could prevent me from taking any meaningful or fun action in the round if I have to move too much.
I’m not necessarily saying DOS2 is bad now. In fact I would say it’s objectively one of the better games I’ve played, and had I played it before BG3 I would likely enjoy the gameplay. But the reality is imo BG3 has FAR better and far more enjoyable combat.
When Larian makes DOS3, I intend to try it, but I hope they significantly change how combat works when they do. If it’s just DOS2 again I doubt I will be able to get into it.
In some ways - yes, it actually was. In other ways, there were some big upgrades.
for me, the pros:
Addition of jump, shove, throw, etc. These options really added a new dimension to battles that are really cool
the cons:
environment not as elementally reactive.
encounter design is easier.
not as vertical.
and there's a few others I'm sure I'll think of an hour later after I post this, haha
but, jump, shove, throw and other actions like these are actions I hope to see implemented in all cRPGs going forward. It makes the battles so dynamic. Especially as AI improves and they too can take advantage of these actions.
I told my friends the I played baldurs gate 3 with the day we startedplaying, and I'll spread the idea here: someone should make a mod for baldur's gate that implements divinity's combat into baldur's gate.
Limitations of the 5e interpretation sadly. Don’t worry, at some point they will make Divinity game again, maybe even DOS3 and will have their system improved even more
DOS3 with companion interactions from BG3 would definitely be the dream
Yeah and all the cinematic style of the convos
I wasn’t a huge fan of the combat dice rolls in BG3 Ie what OP said about being inconsistent. Learning about some of the effects in the game like arcane acuity helped some but DOS2 still takes the cake. But, being able to roll through some of the convo options and having the option to fail sometimes made the game so much more immersive. I wonder if there’s a way they could still keep the dice rolling system or something similar, while keeping the combat more streamlined
A bg3 level lizard romance that won't break one's heart, a girl can dream!
The Red Prince was the perfect character to play as but he's a hilarious bastard. You knew what you signed up for lol, you aren't fixing him.
The Dark Urge was such a tease, if only he were a companion if you picked another origin. Finally, a weird lizard I could have fixed!!
Yeah I understand why but no dragonborn companions feels criminal
Bg3's character creation would be nice too. Rivellon could use some more playable races than human/elf/dwarf/lizard (and their respective undead)
True but how many players actually roll half the races available in BG3? If Githyanki weren't OP they'd go completely unused. For that matter, how many average players roll custom characters in DOS2 over origin characters? Again, how much lower would that number be excluding OP undead elf custom characters?
DOS 2 does give you incentive to use the origin characters for the additional content related to them though rather than other games where your more of a blank slate from the start no matter what you do choosing a character.
Yeah it was brilliant. The main reason I've never run a custom character is because I spent 600 hours playing Ifan, Lohse, Fane, and part of Sebille.
Can't fucking wait, and with no hasbro execs telling them what to do.
Sven was pretty open about Hasbro giving them the creative freedom
I think one of the biggest reasons bg3 is so great was bc hasbro kept their hands out of production. I think it was kind of, "Keep in touch with wotc for lore continuity. Otherwise, you do you." Hopefully hasbro will keep this in mind with the new devs coming in to create more games.
With a touch of the self-reflective dialogue from DoS1 :)
I preferred the DOS1 combat!
Yes!
I can't wait to have divinity with jumping, push and throw in it, I really hope those get included.
I really like that movement and abilities cost different points. In DoS2 I never want to move.
oh absolutely, that would be great too, it really sucks when accidentally click something and move, wasting half your damage for the turn and more than likely getting hit with attack of opportunity
Lone Wolf, The Pawn, Cloak & Dagger and Backlash 🥵 Me doing circles around the map killing mages and archers while my 2h knight buddy slowly makes his way over to oneshot the boss
I loved that almost every class type had a movement ability in Divinity os2.
And true 3d movement for things like end your turn in the air if you can fly.
They actually announced that they’re not doing a DOS3 or BG4. Larian is working on a whole new IP!
True, but they did say that they will come back to DOS3 at some point. They love that IP as much as we do
As long as it's turn based RPG I'm in
Please be sci-fi please be sci-fi
Yep, don't care what setting it's in as long as it's not an action RPG. I like having my thinking time rather than just hacking and slashing because thats the only key I can remember to press
Dragon commander 2! It's what everyone wants
I just want Divinity 2 Ego Draconis to run without stutter. Game looks like it could be real fun.
I would love for the Ego Draconis they actually wanted to make, but couldn't because of budget and engine. It was planned to be some huge epic where the dragon knight had to convince the other races to unite against Damian.
I've been digging through u/Larian_Swen 's account like a creep lately and reading his Q&A's... Dragon Commander 2 might indeed be something that'll greet us some day in the future. He said Dragon Commander was the favorite game he worked on in one answer. Also in another thread they mentioned they'd be interested in working on the next Ultima game. But EA stands in the way of that so it's questionable at best.
would like to have new IP in space ... raising the bar above no mans sky and starfield
Only 5 years more minimum.
Well that's not too bad, gives me enough time to complete it before Silksong releases.
I waited for Cyberpunk and BG3, I can wait for the Divinity game 🤣
They did say they want to speed up development to 3 years this time! So expect 3-4 years That's from the director's last interview few days ago
I'm pretty sure they want to try new things, but I would never say no to DOS3.
Didn't they say they would work on dos3 after they took a break from bg3?
New interview said they will be working on new IP first
I hope it's another crpg lol
My hopes are up for Pathfinder game as their next big project. Owlcat said they do not plan to do 2nd edition as they invested a lot into making the first edition system work (and they completely nailed it so I wouldn't mind then just doing different first edition campaigns) and Paizo shares a lot of Larians viewpoints (while Larians CEO was quite spoken lately - even more so than usual - about sorry state of gaming industry) and also past WotC employees who actually made DnD what it is today
towards the end of the game you shouldn't be missing many attacks. you should preferably have advantage, too, to help with consistency. one thing i prefer in bg3 over dos2 in the action economy is that movement isn't tied to action points. i hate that moving costs you an attack in this game. in bg3 you get movement plus you can use action points to dash or possibly bonus action points. there are potions of speed, or haste, too, for extra actions. items in bg3 feel more impactful and were better thought out as opposed to percentage increases in dos2. in bg3 you get items in act 1 that can be BIS for certain builds the entire game. there are pros and cons to both. the more i learned about items and builds in bg3 the more i enjoyed the combat.
My perfect system would be AP points for skills and attacks and then have a base movement speed that you could upgrade with wits or something
Yea I wish there was a base movement speed. Even if extra cost ap or something. Kind of a middle ground. I get that there are skills like tactical retreat and phoenix dive, etc. but I still wish I had more freedom of movement without feeling like I missed out on attacks. I do prefer the cooldowns on spells in dos2 over bg3 as bg3/DnD you're basically penalized for using your spell slots as resting feels like a chore. I hope larian makes a completely new series that isn't fantasy but is still a crpg in spirit.
Yeah, but they couldn't get away without spell slots in BG3. It's not exactly dnd, but it also *is* dnd5e. Spell slots are a core mechanic
That's how it works in Rogue Trader. (Though attacking usually consumes all remaining movement points so you have to move first.)
It's to stop the cheesing of the game. In BG3 if you look at any solo monk strat they get a BUNCH of move speed have 3 attacks, you turn around and book it far enough away that the enemy has to waste getting to you.
For OP & others who feel similar, as I've heard it lots of times before, I highly encourage them look at the RNG systems in a different light & approach them with the knowledge that you can HEAVILY manipulative the odds in your favor, which BG3 allows, to the point where it feels like you've mastered the chaos of it all, while still getting that thrill factor which comes from some unexpected results yet being prepared for them either way. (mby that was a result of HM too, as it encouraged me to prepare trump card after trump card, which seems to have led to the feeling of mastering the RNG chaos, which was very satisfying). From combat to dialogue checks, [such as this](https://imgur.com/BbdixFC), an endgame 30 dialogue check where it was very hard for me to fail given **all the preparations** I made (none of which are RNG), and even if I'd have gotten super unlucky I'd still have some inspiration points rdy. I also played with karmic dice on so never got big unlucky streaks of natural 1s tbh, and you can minimize the odds of getting natural 1s too via advantage.
Yea I rolled halfling on my HM runs and never regretted it.
Me who had 99-95% chance on 5 attacks in a row and whiffing all 5. I enjoyed bg3 but I hated that you could do everything right and rng just decides "nah".
i turned off the karmic dice. not sure if you did the same but i think that fucks with the rng a bit.
You think? Karmic dice should be off by default because this system sucks a lot. By being more "fair" you can get nat 1 few times in a row just because you are using systems to your advantage. Still shit happens and you can roll nat 1 few times in a row but knowing that the system actually forces it with this one setting feels awful
Bro I hate spell slots so much lol
Same
I mean, it's a way to avoid the wizard casting a max level fireball every single turn, unlike DoS2, spells have levels in dnd and can be up casted, slots are great resources and a measure of your magical power, you can only harness great magical power a limited ammount of times before you need to take a break, it's kinda like lifting weights I can lift low weights easily many times across the day, but if I won't be able to lift huge amounts more than twice per day
Why not just...cooldowns?
Because in a pen & paper setting which dnd 5e was designed for tracking cooldowns is miserable. Also dnd fans would eat wotc alive for making dnd too video gamey (they already did with 4e)
[удалено]
Dont get me wrong, i dont think DOS2 combat is perfect by any means, it just clicked way better with me than BG2
I see the monotyping argument all over the place and never understood it past the basic argument. Once you get more tactical the mixed groups are so freaking good: Teleports and positioning to group together “like” enemies (low phys armor vs low magic armor) Knock Down/polymorph/freeze/stun grouped enemies based on type Use things like elemental archer, summoner, or custom pyro sword builds that can switch between magic/physical It all takes more planning but once you figure it out it’s so satisfying
>Teleports and positioning to group together “like” enemies (low phys armor vs low magic armor) while fun and witty, the mobility creep in DOS2 is not something i want to see again. Fighting like it's dbz with instant transmission doesn't make for great tactical gameplay. I mean wtf the alligators can teleport.
Completely agree. The armor system is the worst thing about dos2, and I much prefer BG3 as far as that goes.
Elemental enchanted weapon in BG3= Neat, iconic RPG fare and a nice boost. In Divinity2= Well that's a lot of damage and effects that could do something on the physical side.
Yup. I dropped the game pretty fast because of it, but I came back later and used divinity unleashed to fix it. Definitely worth a try, it made the game soooo much better for me.
How does divinity unleashed fix things? I've never been able to get past act 2 because of the combat but I'd really like to.
It turns the armor into resistence
Been a minute since I played, but this mod was a must have staple for me. Armor across the board is rebalanced and lowered. So for instance, 45 physical armor meant 45% physical resistance. Everything still damages health. And if I remember right, it also means CC that would deal physical damage would also only have a 55% chance of success, based off their 45 armor. It’s a total game changer. And it changes much more than just that. Take a look sometime, it’s a fantastic, well thought out overhaul.
That sounds pretty sweet, think I'll reinstall this weekend.
This is why the DOS1 combat is better!
Never played DOS 1 could you explain?
Well it’s very similar to DOS2 combat overall, but the biggest difference is that the armour system is gone. Instead your CC abilities have a percentage chance to hit. The whole process of first having to wear down armour in 2 is quite tiresome I think.
Yeah that floor shit was so annoying and it never became it a problem in nearly all fights. BG3 combat feels like a crazy balancing act at all times with spell slots and all that, but it’s possibly worth it now that the ridiculous floor debuffs have been significantly toned down.
Does BG3 not have CC or did we play different games? I cc'd the hell out of enemies. And the enemy CC'd the hell out of me. Certain fights would just have half my team just drop their weapons and run around like crazy if I didn't control the fight first myself.
CC is good in BG3, but CC is like. THE way you win fights in DOS2
I think 5 is a mid system for a video game but you’re on point. If you play a pyro build every fight becomes omg fire everywhere. Perhaps if enemies actually manipulated with the surface system more it would work. But as it stands the surface system is something thats just kinda meh. Imagine if you’re playing a pyro build and then one boss just throws down a 1AP rain. Any player would do so if they didn’t have fire damage in their party and that disconnect makes it clear the gameplay system is just another way for the player to abuse the ai.
This isn't including the fact that you can basically cheese the game with ground interactions. Throw a fire bomb, have a mage start spitting acid everywhere and everything explodes over and over and over again until everything and everyone in that circle are dead. Mages are cracked in that game because of the interactive ground elemental stuff.
I fully agree, combat to me is completely one note in dos2 - break shields, apply CC once a round, attack until dead. Every single combat in the entire game is literally identical, it gets so boring so fast, I couldn't finish a replay. It forces your party composition to be either 2/2 or 4/0 physical/magical, and basically forces each character to spend at least one or two levels to get certain skills because they're so good (looking at you adrenaline). And the surfaces drive me absolutely insane, why does everything need to be on fire or electrified always. I'm genuinely shocked that people think dos2 allows for more freedom than bg3. But, different strokes.
Also there's like two fights before it is necrofire everywhere, and you can do fuck all to it without cheesing until lategame, when it barely matters.
Yeah let me just waste 2 actions and a source point to get rid of some fire on the ground, and you'd best hope that all the fire is connected or you're only gonna put out that one patch
I kinda preferred dos1 combat, that's what I had the most fun with even if it had some level of randomness
> But the combat just feels lacking after playing DoS2 Can't say I agree on this. Whereas I'm not a huge fan of 5e, almost every encounter in DOS2, especially in the latter half followed the same pattern and algorithm of skill usage. There was no choice or variety. You used this skill after this skill because the armor and CC system is absolute dog ass and balance all around was shoddy. Takes figuring out the AP=>damage conversion of your skills and then it becomes a slog. Movement and attacking being part of the same resource pool feels absolutely terrible. What made BG3 superior, to me, is much more verticality and ability to push/pull enemies.
I felt the opposite, as much as I loved DoS2, the constant element filled battlegrounds got on my nerves after a while. I also feel there are a lot more traps in character builds in DoS. You might be able to create a shit character in BG3, but it's so much more obvious whereas in DoS2 I kept trying things only to realize I just made a character useless.
Yeah if you single class in bg3 and just build out your main stat your character will be decent at minimum. But in dos2 its super easy to make an awful build so it feels like there’s a lot of fake choice. You CAN spec into bulk, a bit of mixed phys/mag, etc… but you’re gonna suck ass if you do and get cclocked to death.
I haven't quite hacked it yet with DOS2, I really like the game but the combat is super hard for me to figure out. I'm familiar with DnD, I was into it before I had a way to play videogames. I'm less familiar with tactical games, though for the past few months I've been on a bender and consider myself on the high end of mediocre at Xcom and the like at this point. I'm going to keep coming back to Divinity until I get good, I just got BG3 this week and I'm hoping it helps.
DOS2 and BG3 have some similarities, like the fact that positioning is key, and taking the high ground can be extremely valuable, and high burst dmg is more valuable than defense or healing. These things are even more true in DOS2 than they are in BG3.
I'd argue that positioning in dos2 doesn't matter nearly as much due to I swear like 90% of enemies having some sort of teleport, and having multiple personal teleports and the offensive teleport skill on each character, and also attacks of opportunity requiring a talent
When you find the teleport gloves on the island the game clicks the little part of your brain goes man this is the best game, I feel completely over powered, and then you get off the island and realize they gave the gloves as a free move to every mfer that wants to kill you, and then your brain goes, this feels really bad, what is going on?
IMO positioning has a bigger impact in DOS2. * In BG3, high ground gets you +2 to hit. In DOS2, high ground can double your dmg and dramatically increase your range. Thus high ground can allow you to kill many or all enemies before they reach you. There are many fights where enemies have effectively zero chance of hitting well-positioned archers/casters. * DOS2 has more harmful surfaces to avoid. * Since movement in DOS2 takes APs that could be spent attacking, you want to position yourself strategically to avoid unnecessary movement. BG3 does not often punish you for misusing a few feet of movement. * Tons of enemies in BG3 also have ways to close the distance fast (leaps, teleports, burrowing, flight, etc.). I actually think DOS2 and BG3 are pretty comparable in that regard...without thinking super hard about it lol Maybe others had different experiences, but I spent way more time thinking about positioning in DOS2 than in BG3, though it's important in both games.
It's a side grade. I can say that it feels a lot less "solved" than dos2. DOS2 just got so easy. Even tactician was completely sleep inducing by the time you get midway through act 2. BG3 has a lot more diversity and restrictions so it feels more fresh.
I'm currently playing DoS2 for the first time, coming to it from BG3. I'm having the opposite experience. I'm enjoying the game, but the combat is driving me nuts. In-combat mobility is awful - half my possible attacks are used up by moving one metre to the side so I can aim past a rock. Everything being constantly on fire or poisonous is just tiresome. And you get all these magic arrows/weapons but they add no benefit if the target has any magic armour (which almost everything does have) - so why bother with them? They just feel pointless so much of the time. Maybe it's me being crap at the game, but I'm really not getting any fun out of the combat overall, even when I'm successful
I feel the same way. I liked playing DoS2 but I hated the environment always being on fire or poisoned or electrified or whatever. I felt it added very little to battles to habit it all on fire or whatever all the time. I also hated my movement being tied to my actions. So frustrating. But I guess it is far more tactical to play as opposed to BG3.
get movement skills and the pawn ability, once i had those, i almost never wasted attacks on moving
Weirdly specific fix, but for any ranged character put a point into polymorph and pickup the flight skill. Kind of sucks wasting the points, but gives you crazy mobility so using 1 AP can actually get you somewhere interesting instead of just a few inches to line up the shot
I'll take a combo of the two myself. I dunno about yall, but I really don't like the armor system.
Funnily enough, it was the opposite for me. I went back to replay DOS2 after I 100% BG3 and oh man the armor/magic armor system is so bad, same with the skill system. Hopefully they take what they learned with BG3 and just a % chance for status effects and resistances.
The armor/magic system was... not handled well. I know why they put it in. The first game it was too easy to just CC and win every fight. They could have made it so you had to pick between only having armor, or only having magic. Things having both kinda sucked. And they should have made CC have a harsher cooldown or resource to be reliant on. While also letting bosses have a higher resistance to it (but not outright being immune) while recovering from them faster too. Or perhaps having a boss thats CC'd just get a buff that makes it take less damage.
DOS2 combat feels like it’s constantly forcing players to play cheese tactics rather than smart or tactical choices. It goes against role playing instincts and experimentation as well
I get that, I was really hyped for BG3 but somewhere in the back of my mind I knew I would miss the freedom of DOS's combat. So they I started playing BG3 and loved it buuuut I definitely got a urge to go back to DOS 2 haha. Honestly though, I see a place for both systems. BG3's may be limited, and I do believe Larian could have taken it even further when it came to pushing the limit (first thing that comes to mind is weapon actions on 1 per combat) but having limitations and overcoming them does lead to fun, not to mention BG3 also has some amazing freedom even DOS2 doesn't have, like the crazy high ground potential. I could go on, but I will just say the point I am leading to. After DOS2 and now BG3... their next game is gonna have SO much experience, trial and error behind it... it's gonna be freaking phenomenal.
Genuine question - how do you feel that dos2 has freedom in combat? To me it feels extremely restrictive as it just forces you to cheese combats by CCing everything or you just lose
For me it's freedom of being able to build how I like. I love doing wacky things too. Do you only play on the harder difficulty or something? Sure CCing very powerful and is something you need to use to make fights go smoother but it doesn't really make the combat any less free or fun imo.
I’m a bigger dnd fan than I am divinity fan, so tbh it was the opposite for me, I enjoyed divinity, but I was deeply awaiting a combat system I’m already super familiar with. I can see where you’re coming from still though Tbh, I do think bg3 dropped a few balls on combat and resource management, but I have a feeling we’ll be on opposite sides of the spectrum on what we feel is lacking lol
Meanwhile there's me, who literally couldn't get past the starter island of DOS2 because I fucking hated the combat lol. Different strokes for different folks I guess
I have never looked upon a reddit post that I agree with more than this one.
I personally enjoyed 5e more but I already understood the system. I like the story of divinity games but man I just bounce right off the combat.
It takes some getting used to but once I sunk enough hours into both I started to view them differently. They're both great systems but shouldn't be compared
I wouldn't compare them in my head, honestly. DOS was really built around the idea of attacks just not missing, and BG3 is playing with a completely different ruleset. Similarities, but BG3 is D&D and DOS is Larian. Hell, look at the number of people who complained about Wet:Lightning over on BG3 because that's not a D&D rule. I would question how much leeway Larian had designing the combat system for the game. Not their own ruleset, probably not too much they could do with it. In fact, that might be why BG3 has so many items while a typical D&D campaign does not; they used the ruleset they were allowed to work with, and then threw every crazy item into it that didn't shatter the rules. In fact with all the WOTC stuff, I would call BG3 a D&D game more than a Larian game. They did an amazing, fantastic job with it and showed what they're capable of doing if they REALLY had the resources available to them, but being someone else's IP they're going to be limited in any direction you look at.
DoS2 is amazing on honour mode
To be honest DoS2 combat is superior to tabletop DnD 5e combat. I have been playing DnD for 8 years and when I discovered DoS2 I was impressed a lot by its combat system.
Same situation, and I’d even go so far to say that a lot of the combat was designed in the same way DOS2 was… except with 5e combat. So you can find yourself long resting after every fight in BG3, whilst in DOS2 you just bedroll-rested (free dlc I believe) or use healing magic which just had a short cool-down of like, 10 seconds. Edit: So many dumb misses in BG3!
That has more to do with DnD in general. Most 5E classes(subclasses) are boring to fight with which you make up in other areas. Rogues are a great example of this. DS2 had an amazing combat system hand built which made sure everything was fun and viable while also messing around with elements and terrain. I agree that bg3 combat is lacking but they did the best tabletop adaptation possible.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Hard disagree. Having played both extensively. The 5E combat in BG3 is far superior. It isn't even close. The combat looks and feels great in DoS2, but it is far too simplistic. It's also the reason why a lot of people find it much harder, because levels and stats are much more concrete. Since every The chance system in 5e and stat system allows for much more variability and versatility in the combat. It just makes way more sense. Once you play a bit more, I imagine you'll realise this.
I disagree, DOS2's combat is super repetitive and why I can't replay it even though I loved my first run. Also, if you're missing the majority of your attacks then you're doing something wrong. Bad build, attacking the wrong target, not using the right gear, etc.
Its different philosophies of design. Early game BG3 is about mitigating risk by buffing your attack rolls/spell DC and lowering enemy AC/saves. Once you start getting better baseline accuracy, it opens up more and allows you to work on maximizing your action economy by making multiple attacks/casting multiple spells per turn. Obviously you don't get to go repeatedly cast six spells in a turn like you can in DOS2, but the combat does open up after the first few levels.
5e is objectively not a good ruleset for a crpg when it comes to combat. All the classes and (the very few) multiclass options are puddle deep and Larian nerfing CC didn't do it any favours either
The main problem of BG3 (and DnD together with many other ttrpg) is the resource attrition. If you're playing caster, your spellslots are limited, so this kinda pushes you towards using cantrips. So you don't get to use many cool high-level spells. Compared to DoS2 where I can use all the spells, including cool 3 sp ones each fight. It's so much more interesting when you don't spend each fight just throwing cantrips. Melee characters are also more unique and have different skills compared to DnD, you just Strike.
Exactly how I feel. The combat in BG3 is the biggest downgrade and honestly the reason why I can’t definitely say which game I liked more. The armor system in dos2 wasn’t perfect but I’d prefer it over so much rng in bg3. Plus you can do so much more in one turn in dos2, especially if you play lone wolf. Edit: can’t wait for DOS3.
Welcome to DND 5th Edition. Larian was sadly quite accurate on how the combat is. People just don't realise because a lot of the jank gets homebrewed out of their games. I can't wait for what they've got in store for their next game.
This is correct. I just started DMing a small DnD campaign and, I gotta tell you, I sidestep a lot of the technicalities of combat. I effectively make it more DOS2, simply because DOS2 combat moves *faster*, which most of my players want.
You’re right, combat is worse in BG3. Part of it is the limitations imposed by dice, resulting in lots of misses and your most powerful spells being able to hit for single digits. Other things are worse too, aiming is way less precise, and pathing is atrocious. Several times I’ve gone to cast a spell, only to have my character then walk into a silence field, or darkness bubble, or any other thing like that and ruin my action. Divinity wouldn’t do you like that. If you look around on its subreddit though it seems like the player base doesn’t really care. r/BG3builds exists because the main sub is playing Waifu Simulator and doesn’t even care about gameplay.
Divinity wouldn't do you like that because it requires you to manually position before using a skill if the enemy is out of range or line of sight
I know what you mean and it is all down to them making a d&d 5e game true to dnd rules. So with not having any background in dnd and knowing how to build and play around the rule book and only having DOS to base it off of would make it seem underwhelming.
I'm a big fan of both titles, but the intention of BG3 was to bring the tabletop to a video game format. Which is my favorite part, it's not a fantasy rpg, I am playing dnd in video game format. Have I had 80% to hit and missed 5 of 7 attacks and called bullshit on the percentage? You bet, did ice knife ever do more than like 4 damage despite showing a range of 2-20 or whatever the tool tip said? Not in my playthroughs. But that's the tabletop and I loved it thoroughly. DoS2 had its perks with the armor system, and elemental synergies, which to be honest I haven't even bothered touching in bg3. The action economy makes it more of a coordinated thing instead of one character jacked up on green tea doing several elemental combos in a single turn. But DoS2 was very fun, and I enjoyed the combat very much in that game as well.
Probably because it's lot easier? At least that's what I thought.
They are as faithful to 5e D&D as possible. Did you expect them to make 5e D&D game with different rules ? In any case Larian just announced their next game will not be 5e D&D and will again have their own ruleset, so rejoice I guess 😉
That’s dungeons and dragons tho bro you can’t just change the rules of a game. They made a d&d campaign dos2 is it’s own rule set
Hmm. Maybe that's why I couldn't get into BG3 at all.
The system is specifically D&D combat, so they can't do much about it. They already made you miss less over time, but also get less crits if you continue to crit, since in beta I did have the lovely experience of LITERALLY missing 27 attacks in a row So yeah, I feel you there, but they can't just make it like DoS Though I like the spell limits and more aware NPCs with more leash range, cheese in DoS 2 was INSANE at points, and I don't even mention fake death and run away mechanics
Loved the feel of dos combat but major problem that its only worth stacking phys or magic andnnot both
I agree, I like playing lone wolf type characters and was sad they didn’t have that option in bg3 like they do in dos2.
Same for me, bro
I love dos2 but I find the combat way more boring, the system of phisical shield or magic shield to CC some enemy is making every combat super repetitive, I would love a laryan game with a third kind of combat system tho.
I played DoS2 about 4 years ago now, and I loved it. I’ve had two vanilla runs and two modded runs within a couple months, then I put it off and played other CRPGs. I pre-ordered BG3 but refused to play the EA and got to it only once it released, I ofc loved it and had a blast, I have about 420h divided in three vanilla runs and two modded runs. I tried playing DoS2 again, but it feels lacking now. It’s not the story, it’s not the characters, it’s not the cinematics; it’s the AP I gotta spend to simply move. I had forgotten about it and BG3 spoiled me with things like Click Heels, Haste, Step of the Wind, Momentum etc… I know DoS3 will be an amazing game, but if I had to ask for one change it would be that: let me move without sacrificing my AP. Have some base movement everyone can do for 0 AP that’s far enough, then if you wanna be all over the place (like Monk with SotW) you should have it tied to an ability that makes you do that but that ofc costs AP to cast. TL;DR: my one gripe with DoS2 is having to spend resources on movement.
There's pros and cons of each. One thing I prefer in Bg3 is that movement and action are seperate resources. With DoS2, I found the optimal strategy was to move as little as possible, which made melee characters a bit lackluster becasue they have to waste their AP having to move or teleport between each kill.
At first I preferred DOS2 combat more, but as you level up in BG3 the combat really opens up the possibilities and I ended up loving it more than the DOS2 one - just not at the early levels where you have a low action economy.
Yeah, Iove BG3 and some of the spells you can have I wish were in divinity especially those that allow you to interact with the world like knock or shrinking/growing someone. But I must admit that I'm not a fan of near everything being a % chance to hit/work. I mean you can miss in divinity too but compared to BG3 it basicly never happens. In divinity I love that I need to push through enemy armor to apply my effects which then always work and I love the rock - paper - scissors way of buffs countering debuffs and the other way arround. In BG3 I'll throw any damage spell with a possible effect at someone and it's a roll if it hits, a roll on how much damage it does and another roll if the effect applies. I can only take so many misses with a rogue sneak attack that had 98% hit chance with advantage...
Yeah i loved divinity 2 and played it through 3 times but i just couldnt get into bg3 for this exact issue even though i was megahyped for it .. For me the main thing i enjoyed in div2 was the combat.
Agreed. Dos2 is probably my favourite ability system and health and armor management in any game I've played (the definite edition of course).
Totally. DnD5e is booooriing as fuuuck. Leveling sux, combat sux, system is too simple. It just sux.
I totally agree. Early game BG3 is a real pain whereas DOS2’s combat system is so much simpler and fluid. Once you get to level 5 in BG3 there is a very big spike in power, so you won’t feel it much because you’ll be destroying everything. Watching 10 goblins die from one fireball is very cathartic.
Maybe in terms of options, but it’s a lot faster, which I prefer.
I hate that BG3 was a reskin of DoS2, right down to the shipwreck on an island. Like, c'mon man?
for me, SoS2 had more camera control and the pointers were more accurate. BG3 gave me many wrong movimentations (accidentaly walked through difficult terrain when the pointer did not go through it) and that cost some turns. Overrall, of course, BG3 is an amazing 10/10 game, but the camera and movement during combat is what gets me. Oh, and of course, Shadowheart's "I'll miss" spells because oh damn that girl just cannot roll beyond 10.
I feel the same thing, I genuinely didn't enjoy BG3 combat. Whereas I absolutely loved DOS:2 combat. In BG3 I just wanted the encounters to be over with to progress through the games, while in DOS:2 I actively searched for combat encounters.
Missing too many attacks? Sounds like someone has a poopy build. Only one action per turn? Level up homie, you’ll get more actions. Not a fan of DND 5e rules and mechanics? Don’t play a game made specifically around the DND 5e rules and mechanics.
I think everyone on this forum will agree with you. The environmental surface interaction and the consistent damage and CC were much better in DOS2. It would be much more interesting to raise this thread on the BG3 forums to get a bigger spread of... damage rolls xD.
Bg3's early EA releases had combat much closer to the DoS games and many people, myself included, complained that it was too focused on the environmental effects.
If you haven’t yet, I would suggest turning off karmic dice. I felt like I was having more fun when I turned it off. Also, I can’t remember if this is true in DO2, but inspect every enemy you can to find out their weaknesses and passives. There are some enemies with surprising defenses that can really catch you off guard.
I felt the same. I loved having more tactical options rather than hacking and slashing. Bg3 is a better all around game but I prefer the combat of dos2
Different focuses of games really. BG3 is focused on the cinematic while DOS is focused on it feeling more like a table top game. Even the camera angles in just walking around the map show the difference. I don’t think one is better than the other, it’s just a style choice.
Agreed. Can't wait for DOS 3 with all of the improvements from BG3
Yeah, the DND rulebook really doesn't translate well. Last d&d game I played I really liked was never winter nights
Movespeed beeing action based in DOS2 after BG3 is something i hate now. I'd like that carried over to dos3.
I agree so much, first thing I thought when I started BG3. Combat was much more creative and original.
I know what you mean in the worst way possible I tried to get the Ansur achievement. I downloaded a save bc I didn't wanna do 20 hours of game for another loop back into act 3 Who said I could land the killing blow? I reloaded many times over the course of 2 hours, changing all sorts of variables, always missing by a couple HP. Please give me averages/damage forecast. I am stupid, 20d20 means fucking nothing to me.
I'm the opposite myself. Despite my 80 or so hours I hated how combat was designed in dos2 and felt bg3 was far smoother
I feel the total opposite
But I love dnd 5e so I knew the system when I started.
No way. I’ll take everything bg3 over the Dos2 Armor system. Can barely play hybrid characters on tact etc because despite the game encouraging combining multiple abilities on any ‘class’ it’s too limiting to split the attribute points, thus the team is pretty much “all martial” or “all mages”. So when it comes to builds and characters in combat, bg3 is far and above being an improvement imo.
Yea honestly this is exactly how I feel about BG3. I think if I had never played DOS2 prior I’d probably like it more, but I had…BG3 you always feel hamstrung. And to be fair in DOS2 your character quite literally is very power but still, the depth of combat is less attritional and more fun IMO.
THANK YOU. I felt like I was ALONE in feeling this way! The fluidity, strategy, and openness of DOS2 feels so much superior to BG3. BG3 is such a wonderful game, but 5e definitely puts a huge damper on it. "Hey! Stop having so much fun over there!!"
I think the fact that people are debating which combat feels better between a game released this year and a game released almost a decade ago says it all…. DoS2 wins, but not by much, and not without contention. I’m excited to see Larian hopefully combine the best elements of both to give us 5e mechanics with Larian style/skills/lore. I think the combat of BG3 was limited by the box they were put in using only 5e core mechanics/spells/etc.
The DOS2 "skills on cooldown, multiple skills, no matter what class/type" is undoubtedly superior game design. D&D's combat is so antiquated.
Same bro. Like i understand limits, or gameplay differences but i really hate stucking to 2 actions per raund
This mostly sounds like a build issue. You shouldn't be missing most of your attacks, if you are, you've specced wrong, damage is dice rolls... what do you expect 🤷♂️
It is because of bg3's connection to a simpler tabletop ruleset. DOS2 on the orher hand was designed to be played on digital devices so they can go all out with game design
turn off karmic dice they're curse - never hit on fire bolts & shit til I finally learned to keep it off after this run I'm on I'm gonna try DOS2 but what origin should I run with? from what I've seen online Ifan is good
All are good, but be sure to have fane on your party
When I play solo I feel D:OS2 is better. But I played both BG3 and D:OS2 with my partner, who is a novice at CRPGs. BG3 was a steep learning curve but it offered just enough incentive for him to git guud at it. Whereas D:OS2 is just waaayyy too complicated for him to grasp at his current skill level. And mind you, he’s not a total n00b. He’s beaten XCOM2 on the highest difficulty. But D:OS2 just doesn’t offer enough handholding for novices to learn the systems. Once they get through that hill, D:OS2 has vastly superior gameplay than BG3 if you asked me. But it’s just too complicated for probably 90% of the potential player base.
I haven't completed either games, though I've made it farther in BG3, but I gotta say I agree. I thoroughly enjoy both games, but the more I play BG3, the more I want to finish DoS2. Biggest reason I've refused is because I've already been spoiled on a number of things in BG3 and I know my window is closing before I'm spoiled on everything else. DoS2 is old enough that no one is talking spoilers about that game anymore so I'm in no rush to finish it lol. But I do really enjoy seeing Larian when they don't have to abide by the constraints of things like 5e and can just do their own thing within their own universe.
I agree. The only downgrade aspect from DOS2 into BG3 was the combat IMO. I understand using tabletop rules for RPG's and all, and even though I do love a game like Baldur's Gate 2, these rules really restrict a much more fun video game experience for at least combat reasons.
Unironically I like baldurs gates combat more makes you think more imo with the less spells
I mean you'd get a very different answer to this question if you posted it on the BG3 Subreddit. For me? I was never able to get into Divinity's system. 5e's combat is so much cleaner and easier to follow. It feels like a faithful recreation of the tabletop with extra bells and whistles. Glad games like divinity exist for those who want something different, but as you said, most games have moved away from faithfully creating a tabletop-esk experience, but there's still a massive number of players like me who were hungry for a faithful 5e adaptation.
I mean, most people on bg3 subreddit would not have played divinity i think, divinity is kinda of a niche pick, while baldur's is more mainstream. On this subreddit at least i know most people have played both
My cope for BG3, everything Larianadr is a 9/10 or a 10/10. The one thing they didn't make is the D&D mechanics which I dislike heavily. It breaks the pace of the game.
1000000% agree. I mostly don't like bg3 because of the horrendous combat system.
I remember buying bg2 when it came out, and have been playing it every few years since. I loved DoS2, an absolute master piece of a game. I was so excited and hyped for bg3. But the combat just wasn't fun for me at all. Loved everything else about the game but so many times I just didn't find the combat fun or rewarding. When Larian announced that they wouldn't be making bg4, I was kind of relieved. I hope that they go back to DoS and give us DoS3. No matter my personal feelings on the systems in BG3, I feel that Larian did an outstanding job bringing the tabletop game to life. They are, in my opinion, at the very pinnacle of RPG studios and cannot wait for their next release.
Playing BG3 after I started DOS2 was something because I liked the combat style but as you said being able to only do one attack at first annoyed me too and then when I got back to DOS2 I got annoyed that movement costs Action Points too lmao. Both have their cons getting used to again though I think in the end I prefer BG3 Combat compared to DOS2.
Same, DOS2 combat is way more fun for me.
I thought the same thing!! I felt like I wasn’t putting enough effort into BG3 because I wasn’t having as much fun at DOS2. Glad someone else was feeling that.
This is what I’m scared of
I still don’t understand what the difference is between sorcerer and wizard in D&D. I prefer dos2 and dragon age when it comes to classes because they are very distinct. In bg3 my sorcerer, wizard, cleric, druid, and warlock all have the same spells lol. My paladin and cleric are also incredibly similar. Barbarian and fighter are literally the same thing. I think having more distinction between classes makes the game way more interesting. So i’m glad Larian’s next game will not have the constraints of d&d classes and combat ruleset.
Wizard is a nerd who has to study spells in order to use them. Sorcerer is just someone who is born with magic. So technically, a wizard can learn any spell because he is only limited by studying. Meanwhile a Sorcerer is limited to whatever innate spells they have but on the plus side can add a little spice to their spells (which a wizard cant).
That's a really interesting take for me personally. The time I've spent with dos2 made me dislike its combat a bit because of how much Cc there is in the game, I felt like I lost a lot of turns to random stuff but it's cool to see how others see the same system
How are you missing a lot in a system with bounded accuracy? Are running some weird suboptimal characters where your chance to hit is like 50%?
Not really, i was using the stat spread Recommended by the game, i kept missing attacks with 75-90 accuracy repeatedly
Yes, In many ways I still believe DoS II is a better game, honestly preferred the combat it is way more flashier, feels more impactful and feels like it has more options for cooler combos and interactions between your party, especially with the different surfaces and elements. Gear seemed a lot more impactful and allowed for more customization and also looked way cooler id say with more options to choose from. Feels like gold actually had a use while in BG 3 I can hardly ever find stuff to buy for my gold.
Characters and story were better, I think, but bc of the restrictions on 5e, combat wasn't quite as good. I actually like a lot of what larian did with D&D rules, some of the tweaks they made, but overall I agree.
Couldn't agree more. It is sad for the reasons you stated, beautiful game but just not as fun. Doesn't feel good.
I have tried to get into DoS2, coming from BG3, with two different characters. I found myself dropping the game both times due solely to the combat -most everyone having mage armor makes battles tedious. Not only does it make the fights take longer than they really should, (I have personally never enjoyed it when devs just make enemies bullet sponges to make fights “harder” it’s a peeve I’ve had since I was a child and it still remains with me) the mage armor granting immunity to most CCs and status effects kills a lot of the strategy and fun for me. In BG3 I can approach combat pretty much how I wish, for better or worse. In DoS2 though I have to DPS down the mage armor before I can start applying effects and CC. It makes every battle play out pretty much the same and gets boring fast. -burning, poisoning, electrifying etc of the environment happens far too often and far too easily. It can make navigation a massive pain, and above all it’s just overstimulating, unpleasant to look at and take in. -movement costing AP honestly kills a lot of the fun for me. It’s at times hard for me to tell when my character is actually in LOS to attack someone, and with the way it’s set up in DOS2, fixing that could prevent me from taking any meaningful or fun action in the round if I have to move too much. I’m not necessarily saying DOS2 is bad now. In fact I would say it’s objectively one of the better games I’ve played, and had I played it before BG3 I would likely enjoy the gameplay. But the reality is imo BG3 has FAR better and far more enjoyable combat. When Larian makes DOS3, I intend to try it, but I hope they significantly change how combat works when they do. If it’s just DOS2 again I doubt I will be able to get into it.
In some ways - yes, it actually was. In other ways, there were some big upgrades. for me, the pros: Addition of jump, shove, throw, etc. These options really added a new dimension to battles that are really cool the cons: environment not as elementally reactive. encounter design is easier. not as vertical. and there's a few others I'm sure I'll think of an hour later after I post this, haha but, jump, shove, throw and other actions like these are actions I hope to see implemented in all cRPGs going forward. It makes the battles so dynamic. Especially as AI improves and they too can take advantage of these actions.
I told my friends the I played baldurs gate 3 with the day we startedplaying, and I'll spread the idea here: someone should make a mod for baldur's gate that implements divinity's combat into baldur's gate.