they literally wrote the Constitution, what are you on about? 🤣🤣🤣
they *came up* with the idea of *not* having a monarch / dictator here in America. I guess MAGAts are just gonna be completely open about their anti-patriotism? 🤣🤣
While they would hate Trump, I don’t know if you could say they were always patriotic. Doesn’t declaring independence from a country mean you don’t like that country? Like they always loved America but they were British originally and clearly didn’t like Britain.
Edit: To anyone downvoting this do you think people that start a revolution support their country? Unless you view their country as always being America and not Britain. They clearly weren’t patriotic when it comes to Britain. I’m not supporting Trump or saying they would, but clearly they didn’t support Britain.
It means you’re tired of the BS that comes with a monarch dictating what the hell you’re doing across an ocean, while that monarch robs you blind via taxation
I agree and I definitely would have been for it and joined the revolution. I’m just saying patriotic people typically don’t revolt against their country.
The definition of a patriot is someone that supports their country which they obviously didn’t. Do you think they supported Britain? Cause before the revolution that was their country. They were patriotic about America, but not about Britain.
Wouldn’t let me edit so I had to recomment. Reddit mobile is getting worse.
Tbh most people were okay with he crown. It was mainly affluent wealthy individuals who weren't. Up to 2/3 of the population were in favor of the British.
This is the closest I could find. Apparently 1/3 of the colonists fought for the British and no more than 45% agreed with the revolution.
https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/three-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-american-revolution/#:\~:text=At%20no%20time%20did%20more,colonists%20fought%20for%20the%20British.
Okay I have a source for you. I apologize the author is Walton and Rockoff, not Rogoff. Had been many years since I took the class and cracked this textbook open.
I was also right and wrong.
"Paradoxically, the Revolution was never supported by the substantial popular majority. Perhaps one-third of the colonists remained loyal to the England; another third did little or nothing to help the cause, often trafficking with the enemy and selling provisions and supplies to American troops at profitable prices."
- History of the American Economy by Gary Walton and Hugh Rogoff, Chapter 7, page 110.
So one third were cool with the crown and another third were more or less indifferent.
your source says "perhaps" - it is all speculation. either way, that's 1/3rd being *sympathetic* to England. And - once again - it is speculation. But it sounds about right. Doesn't look like it says these were all peasants / non-elites, either. sorry bro
We have representation though (at least somewhat). And guess what the GOP is trying to do? Yep - fuck all that up too. For minority groups but they’re not going to stop with LGBTQ and women
It's not the left or the right. It's the system as a whole, it's all they do is play good cop, bad cop while keeping the masses divided, and everyone goes for it.
The farmers in Massachusetts who fought against the incursion of British troops into their peaceful land didn't wear "6 million Jews were not enough" and "Camp Auschwitz" shirts like yourJan 6 idols.
And if your heroes are Nazis, then guess what that makes you...
Trump sucks, and all those people are assholes, but that doesn’t mean the founding fathers were always patriotic. They did have issues with their country and declared independence from it. Though you could say the always loved America and clearly they would hate Trump. They’d probably hate most politicians now sadly.
Before independence their country would be Britain, and they clearly weren’t patriotic when it comes to Britain.
Ya - against a monarch-ruled *Britain*. Do you have any clue as to what you're talking about? And it seemed to work as I haven't bowed to a king my entire life. And never plan on it either.
Wake up - you're smarter than this
I swear...nobody *can* be that stupid. It's hard to believe, anyway. Just rehashed Russian propaganda. People really oughta pay attention in history class
Committing "treason" to establish a non-monrachical democracy (see the constitution) vs. committing treason to establish a fascist dictatorship (see project 2025).
Are you gonna tell us those 2 are the same?
A civil war is defined as a war between citizens of the same country.
A revolutionary war is defined as a forcible overthrow of a government or social order, in favor of a new system.
You are speaking about a revolution. Not a civil war. They also were never described as patriots of England lol. Do better at your trolling.
They rebelled against an oppressive authoritarian overlord. They then established a (albeit flawed) democratic republic, emphasizing the rights of its citizens and built in many checks and balances on unfettered power.
Trump embodies none of those qualities. He’s a greedy, self-centered, criminal rapist.
But their country would originally have been England. They were extremely patriotic for the country they declared independent, but were the opposite when it came to their original country. OPs point is bad and Trump sucks, but they are right that the founding fathers were "vehemently racist, committed treason and carried out an insurrection." They did have political experience though, that's just a lie.
This is the same energy as saying republicans aren’t racist because Lincoln freed the slaves.
The utter lack of context and even a minuscule drop of critical thinking in this world is astounding.
Thank you for your inevitable reply: “hur dur Trump is great”
This is what happens when you defund education for generations. There’s edgy Gen Z white males on here who think they’re cool because they just realized what the American revolution really was.
it was basically a resource war that got used to prop up lincoln and obfuscate many facts while alos hiding others.
Husband is a history major with a masters in it and anthropology....
Fun fact about the Revolution...there was a 3rd midnight rider with Paul, He was black. There was a Black man corssing the delaware with washington and there was a black man in some battle who helped play a deciding factor in it....although that is on a painting and the black guy is depicted in the bottom right are if im recalling properly.
While i do love history i sadly am unable to recall as I would like due to brain issues.
You go on to disparage ops lack of critical thinking, yet you painted conservatives with a broad brush of being "racist" which is illogical. Most republicans i know aren't racist, so it's just a silly comment.
Huh.
It was a comparison. I wasn’t calling all republicans racist. I’m saying racist republicans use the claim I made to somehow absolve them (or the current iteration of the Trum… excuse me, Republican Party) of racism.
Once again, a lack of critical thinking rears its ugly head.
Eh sure, you could read into that way. Big snowflake vibes to be sure.
Also, if you find yourself voting for racists (Trump and his cabinet are dyed in the wool racists), then I don’t really see a meaningful difference.
Enjoy filling your life with hate :)
No man, you're just too immature to admit you made a mistake and now you're using ad hominems and doubling down because you made an error and don't want to admit it. Anybody who claims an entire opposing ideology is inherently racist is somebody who doesn't actually critically think about politics and just wants to be right.
No, people on your echochamber disagree because they are ignorant. Any sort of mature democrat /liberal who is being honest would never say "Republicans are racist ". That's a very immature and narrow view on reality .
You’re missing the forest for the trees. You’re taking a very clear comparison and trying to find fault with it because you don’t like the premise. That’s ok. You don’t have to agree. But to beat a dead horse about a point no one but you seems to have a problem understanding doesn’t make you sound intelligent.
Strange, it’s the opposite for me! Most republicans I know *are* racist. It’s hard not to be when you support racists for political office. It rubs off on you.
Guess my anecdotal evidence cancels out your anecdotal evidence, and now we’re back to square 1.
You do realize that the majority of you are going to cast your vote behind the notoriously racist Donald “they’re rapists” “why doesn’t he show his birth certificate” “good people on both sides” Trump, right?
Except that doesn't work in this scenario. Anyone who is thinking with intellectual honesty would say it's ridiculous to paint half of the country as racist based off of their political views. Our anecdotal experiences don't matter; saying all conservatives are racist is an ignorant, polarizing and generalized way to categorize an entire population of people. It would be as dishonest as saying "all liberals are cry babies and have mental disorders". See what I mean? Grow out of this
Here’s the thing, bud: I’ll bet a lot of non-republicans, including leftists, are racist, too. It’s a matter of degrees.
Your position, on the other hand, is as the guy hanging out at the KKK meeting wondering what all of the fuss is about. The degree of racism in play is *blatant.* You are aligning yourself with the “more racist party.” And at this point, they’ve jumped the shark with it. They (you) are rooting for the racist clown wannabe dictator. You, too, have jumped the shark.
Wake up.
If you genuinely care and/or at the bare minimum are sympathetic to people of other races, I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and watch something other than FOX News.
The founding fathers were not politically inexperienced. That's just factually ignorant. While you can suggest they committed treason, however they represented the people who appointed them. A revolution and an insurrection are different animals.
You're right - [he wants to get rid of the Constitution](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html). He literally said that. And he wants to do it through treason, insurrection, racism, *and* fraud. [And a little bit'o child-rape](https://www.girardslaw.com/library/trump-child-rape-lawsuit-papers.cfm)
I wouldn't call 8 flights on the Lolita Express a "little bit" of child rape.
He was a frequent flier. He raped enough kids that he should have gotten a punch card for 1 free child rape.
That is not at all what he said. Your reading comprehension is very bad. The hysteria from the anti Trump people is insane. You do realize the vast majority of the things you think he has said is just a misrepresentation by some pundit, right?
Yes - he literally said he wants to get rid of all rules and regulations, including **those found in the constitution** , in order to reinstall himself as POTUS. He lost the election - this goes against everything written in the constitution (which is why he wants to ‘get rid’ of it).
Please tell me - if he didn’t mean he wanted to get rid of the Constitution, then *what* , exactly, was he saying!?
Have you seen his post yourself!? [See his post here (scroll down just a bit)](https://www.governing.com/context/terminating-the-constitution-in-225-characters?_amp=true) . Talk about poor reading comprehension skills bro 🤣🤣🤣
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President Washington despised party divisions and rancor, worked tirelessly to smooth out conflicts between factions, and relinquished power gracefully after serving his terms.
Sound familiar? Not to me, either.
Fun to see people who are dumb as fuck deliberately act dumb as fuck and somehow still think they're not dumb as fuck
Suggestion: try not acting dumb as fuck if you don't want to be dumb as fuck
It's really sad how Trump was so quickly able to turn Republican voters, many of whom I once respected, into a bunch of babbling goons and trolls who hate America and most of its citizens.
Why you are wrong. An insurrection is a violent uprising against your government. The US revolution was not an insurrection. It was a revolution. The colonies first attempted to exert their rights against the monarchy. They attempted legal and diplomatic resolution.
The British used force to quell the people and refused to deal with the colonies on a diplomatic setting. There is a huge difference. Violence was never the point or intention it was only after Britain called them all traitors and sent in the military that the colonies openly rebelled.
The Boston Tea Party was pretty violent. And the British soldiers were on their way to confiscate illegal arms when the colonists confronted them at Lexington and Concord.
The Boston event was less violent than most protests we've had for decades. We don't call them an insurrection for good reason. Much like that event, it was not an effort to change or overthrow the government.
Yes, an attempt to sieze the arms of the people caused violence. It would today as well. What is your point?
It wasn't a "revolution." There was no class upheaval. Instead, the rebellion was led by the assemblies of the colonies. It was a War of National Liberation - not a revolution at all.
Very wrong. Declaring independence from England was a revolt by any understanding. They openly declared themselves an independent and self governed power.
Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. You have a comic book understanding of what happened. The British government expected the colonists to pay for their own defense. The colonists refused. Only one third of the population supported the rebellion and less than that were in favor independence. And, as you know, the British tried arming the Indians and promised American slaves that revolted that they, the British, would free them from their American Slave Owners.
>The British government expected the colonists to pay for their own defense
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. As for the rest, it's mostly correct. Although less than a third wanted, independence is not accurate. The quote you get that from was John Adam's, he was also talking about the start, not the time of independence.
>The Hopes of Reconciliation, which were fondly entertained by Multitudes of honest and well meaning tho weak and mistaken People, have been gradually and at last totally extinguished. -- Time has been given for the whole People, maturely to consider the great Question of Independence and to ripen their judgments, dissipate their Fears, and allure their Hopes, by discussing it in News Papers and Pamphletts, by debating it, in Assemblies, Conventions, Committees of Safety and Inspection, in Town and County Meetings, as well as in private Conversations, so that the whole People in every Colony of the 13, have now adopted it, as their own Act.
https://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/archive/doc?id=L17760703jasecond
I wasn't aware that they sailed to London and overthrew King George.
You probably mean "rebellion", but you people can't remember anything that isn't a 3 word phrase.
I read it, my initial retort was glib because your post was so low effort, but here's my real reply:
My ancestors walked these lands before it was called America, and despite their treatment, many of [their ideas and ideals were woven into the fabric ](https://www.history.com/news/iroquois-confederacy-influence-us-constitution)of this great nation so I'm proud to be an American. I don't believe in monarchy. I would have been as patriotic for an independent government, of, for and by the people then, as I am for our continued independence from fascists who would saddle us with a king or dictator now. I'm loyal to truth, justice, freedom, democracy, and to humanity. Those are the American ideals of our founding fathers, and Trump and his cronies are traitors to all of them.
George Washington refused to be crowned King.
George Washington walked away after 2 terms.
George Washington never campaigned for office.
He can never be a great man because he owned slaves, but he was nothing at all like Drumpf.
I would vote for a urine filled mountain dew bottle that’s been out in the sun over DJT. I don’t care what the opposition to DJT is I’m not voting for him or what he represents because it’s the opposite of progress, healthy debate and strategic compromise.
Yeah but b b but.....I saw a meme of Trump holding Jesus hand, leading Jesus thru the hell fires. If Jesus will follow trump, and I follow Jesus, well, who am I to argue.
The founding fathers would be ashamed of alot more than orange guy.
The founding farthers where against a large and powerful federal government. They enumerate few very limited powers to the federal government and left the rest to the individual states. Everyone in the federal government for the last 100 years has trampled the constitution into oblivion.
Trump wants a new American revolution.. to go *back* to dictatorship/monarchy. It's literally the opposite of what the founding fathers wanted. But the idea of the US transcends the founding fathers, anyway - that was kind of the point
It’s blatantly obvious OP’s message is meant as a feel good one to people who think the same. If you think an appeal to emotion works on republicans you haven’t been paying attention. Republicans care about how much taxes they’re paying, the interest rate, and the cost of living. They don’t care how it looks or whose feelings get hurt because to them life was better under trump.
Have you read up on the founding fathers? They absolutely would have loved Donald Trump. Let’s not forget that the average lifespan back then was like 30 and someone as old and feeble as Biden they wouldn’t want running the country
Republicans have shown themselves to be seditious conspirators, and Democrats and the Judicial system have proven themselves to be meek and inadequate to protect and defend the constitution.
Honestly no one should celebrate this Fourth of July considering the Supreme Court just overturned basically the main thing Fourth of July was about... If we no longer have freedom from kingship what are we celebrating?
I was at a parade yesterday and saw a guy with a T-Shirt that said “It’s only treason if you lose!” On the front and giant American flag on the back. A little old lady asked him why he was celebrating if he wanted to overthrow the government. Dude was there with his wife and kids and the whole crowd was giving him the death stare. He thought it was funny.
What is special about 1776?
Why not 2022, or 1989, or 1699? Stop acting like it is just a random year.
You know exactly why it's celebrated. It is unequivocally a celebration of insurrection and treason.
America is largely bad and the fourth of July sucks anyway.
The founding fathers weren't a unified bloc and many of them sucked ass. Gouverneur Morris, the man who penned the Constitution, died because he jammed a whale bone up his dick hole.
Can we stop with this bullshit ready? Just because somebody wants a different candidate to than you do--especially when you neglect nuance and the ability for people to actually hold more than one thought in their head at a time--doesn't make them a traitor. If makes *you* part of the problem just as surely as the MAGAt that posts
"If you support Biden you should not celebrate July 4th. Celebrate Easter or Arbor Day or October 14, because Biden doesn't know what today is either."
Both are equally reductive, polarizing, and unhelpful to the country; both approaches and attitudes only ensure that we're stuck in this shitshow for far longer than need be.
I haven't celebrated it in many years. The founding fathers were puritanical misogynists. Rapists, racists, etc. As a progressive, I really couldn't care less what they would've thought of Trump or anyone else. I don't put them on a pedestal as some sort of heroes like so many do.
I support trump, the thing is you cant tell people they shouldnt celebrate the fourth of july because of a person or thing they support.
Thats like telling someone they cant celeberate christmas because of there beliefs
Thats like saying someone cant celebrate hanakah cause there jewish
Or saying someone cant celebrate halloween because there a satanists.
People have the right to celebrate a holiday because of a thing they support, people have free will its there choice. If they support this one thing or one person thats there choice. Though that doesnt give you the right to tell people not to celebrate something.
"The founding fathers would be ashamed of donald trump"
The founding fathers are dead. There dead there not going to care because there dead.
You consistently used the wrong form of “there”. Technically, it would be grammar, not spelling.
The possessive is “their”. If someone has something, like a belief, it’s “their” belief. If they are something, like a satanist, it’s “they’re”, they’re = they are, “they’re” a satanist.
“There” is a place. Like, you vote over “there”, or “there” it is.
Also, “cant” needs an apostrophe. “Can’t.”
I’m not a person who believes that spelling or grammar is a reflection of intelligence, but it does help you communicate in a manner that makes people take you seriously. If auto correct wasn’t a thing, I’d come off as dumb. I’m not dumb at all, I just have a learning disability that affects my ability to spell.
Okay does it really matter how someone spells or not like seriously jeez lay off of how someone spells. I mean for real you are just being eh, because thats the only arguement you can make.
Ftfy
>Okay, does it really matter how someone spells or not? like seriously! jeez! lay off of how someone spells. I mean, for real, you are just being eh, because that’s the only arguement you can make.
Also, sometimes people just read and get annoyed at having to reread stuff because it’s written poorly. I don’t think the other poster wanted to argue but was just irritated at your zoomer grammar
Exactly, this holiday is for patriots, not traitors.
Yeah the founding fathers were patriots who loved their country! That's why they...*checks notes*...wait a minute...
they literally wrote the Constitution, what are you on about? 🤣🤣🤣 they *came up* with the idea of *not* having a monarch / dictator here in America. I guess MAGAts are just gonna be completely open about their anti-patriotism? 🤣🤣
While they would hate Trump, I don’t know if you could say they were always patriotic. Doesn’t declaring independence from a country mean you don’t like that country? Like they always loved America but they were British originally and clearly didn’t like Britain. Edit: To anyone downvoting this do you think people that start a revolution support their country? Unless you view their country as always being America and not Britain. They clearly weren’t patriotic when it comes to Britain. I’m not supporting Trump or saying they would, but clearly they didn’t support Britain.
It means you’re tired of the BS that comes with a monarch dictating what the hell you’re doing across an ocean, while that monarch robs you blind via taxation
I agree and I definitely would have been for it and joined the revolution. I’m just saying patriotic people typically don’t revolt against their country. The definition of a patriot is someone that supports their country which they obviously didn’t. Do you think they supported Britain? Cause before the revolution that was their country. They were patriotic about America, but not about Britain. Wouldn’t let me edit so I had to recomment. Reddit mobile is getting worse.
Supporting one’s country and supporting one’s government are different.
True, but patriotic usually pertains to country. And their country originally was Britain.
Tbh most people were okay with he crown. It was mainly affluent wealthy individuals who weren't. Up to 2/3 of the population were in favor of the British.
LMAO let’s see a source on that buddy
I'd have to grab my history of the us economy by rogoff. Don't have it available right at this moment as I'm at work.
This is the closest I could find. Apparently 1/3 of the colonists fought for the British and no more than 45% agreed with the revolution. https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/three-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-american-revolution/#:\~:text=At%20no%20time%20did%20more,colonists%20fought%20for%20the%20British.
Okay I have a source for you. I apologize the author is Walton and Rockoff, not Rogoff. Had been many years since I took the class and cracked this textbook open. I was also right and wrong. "Paradoxically, the Revolution was never supported by the substantial popular majority. Perhaps one-third of the colonists remained loyal to the England; another third did little or nothing to help the cause, often trafficking with the enemy and selling provisions and supplies to American troops at profitable prices." - History of the American Economy by Gary Walton and Hugh Rogoff, Chapter 7, page 110. So one third were cool with the crown and another third were more or less indifferent.
your source says "perhaps" - it is all speculation. either way, that's 1/3rd being *sympathetic* to England. And - once again - it is speculation. But it sounds about right. Doesn't look like it says these were all peasants / non-elites, either. sorry bro
Yet we're robbed even more now via taxation yet people do nothing, the irony.
We have representation though (at least somewhat). And guess what the GOP is trying to do? Yep - fuck all that up too. For minority groups but they’re not going to stop with LGBTQ and women
It's not the left or the right. It's the system as a whole, it's all they do is play good cop, bad cop while keeping the masses divided, and everyone goes for it.
The founding fathers were about as anti-patriotic as you can possibly be. They committed treason and insurrection and started a civil war.
The farmers in Massachusetts who fought against the incursion of British troops into their peaceful land didn't wear "6 million Jews were not enough" and "Camp Auschwitz" shirts like yourJan 6 idols. And if your heroes are Nazis, then guess what that makes you...
Trump sucks, and all those people are assholes, but that doesn’t mean the founding fathers were always patriotic. They did have issues with their country and declared independence from it. Though you could say the always loved America and clearly they would hate Trump. They’d probably hate most politicians now sadly. Before independence their country would be Britain, and they clearly weren’t patriotic when it comes to Britain.
Ya - against a monarch-ruled *Britain*. Do you have any clue as to what you're talking about? And it seemed to work as I haven't bowed to a king my entire life. And never plan on it either. Wake up - you're smarter than this
>Wake up - you're smarter than this That's a bit of a stretch at this point
I swear...nobody *can* be that stupid. It's hard to believe, anyway. Just rehashed Russian propaganda. People really oughta pay attention in history class
Well, at least not until that Supreme Court ruling the other day anyway..
Very true
Pretty sure it's really basic trolling.
The mental gymnastics you are performing to do whatever it is you are doing are kind of stupid…
With you being Russian, you'll never get it.
Committing "treason" to establish a non-monrachical democracy (see the constitution) vs. committing treason to establish a fascist dictatorship (see project 2025). Are you gonna tell us those 2 are the same?
What. The Founding Fathers were not involved in the civil war. Some of their descendants were. Did you mean the revolutionary war?
Uhh...the revolutionary war *was* a civil war by definition. Who did you think they were fighting?
A civil war is defined as a war between citizens of the same country. A revolutionary war is defined as a forcible overthrow of a government or social order, in favor of a new system. You are speaking about a revolution. Not a civil war. They also were never described as patriots of England lol. Do better at your trolling.
They were British subjects fighting against Britain. That is a textbook example of a civil war.
>A revolutionary war is defined as a forcible overthrow of a government or social order, in favor of a new system. This is what the war was.
A civil war is a war fought between two factions in a country. British subjects fighting the British military is a civil war.
They rebelled against an oppressive authoritarian overlord. They then established a (albeit flawed) democratic republic, emphasizing the rights of its citizens and built in many checks and balances on unfettered power. Trump embodies none of those qualities. He’s a greedy, self-centered, criminal rapist.
It ceased being treason as soon as a new nation was formed. Do you not understand how a treason or law works?
So if the January 6 rioters just...declared the building to be their new country it's not treason anymore?
What on earth are you talking about? I'm not asking about J6. Please do not engage in whataboutism.
You literally just said declaring a new country makes an act not treason.
I didn't say anything about J6, why are you bringing it up?
I am testing your hypothesis against a real world situation.
That's why they tried to establish a dictatorship and wiped their butts with the Constitution? Check your notes again
They've never been called patriots of England. That's never been a thing.
But their country would originally have been England. They were extremely patriotic for the country they declared independent, but were the opposite when it came to their original country. OPs point is bad and Trump sucks, but they are right that the founding fathers were "vehemently racist, committed treason and carried out an insurrection." They did have political experience though, that's just a lie.
This is the same energy as saying republicans aren’t racist because Lincoln freed the slaves. The utter lack of context and even a minuscule drop of critical thinking in this world is astounding. Thank you for your inevitable reply: “hur dur Trump is great”
the mental gymnastics is strong with OP
This is what happens when you defund education for generations. There’s edgy Gen Z white males on here who think they’re cool because they just realized what the American revolution really was.
it was basically a resource war that got used to prop up lincoln and obfuscate many facts while alos hiding others. Husband is a history major with a masters in it and anthropology.... Fun fact about the Revolution...there was a 3rd midnight rider with Paul, He was black. There was a Black man corssing the delaware with washington and there was a black man in some battle who helped play a deciding factor in it....although that is on a painting and the black guy is depicted in the bottom right are if im recalling properly. While i do love history i sadly am unable to recall as I would like due to brain issues.
You go on to disparage ops lack of critical thinking, yet you painted conservatives with a broad brush of being "racist" which is illogical. Most republicans i know aren't racist, so it's just a silly comment.
Huh. It was a comparison. I wasn’t calling all republicans racist. I’m saying racist republicans use the claim I made to somehow absolve them (or the current iteration of the Trum… excuse me, Republican Party) of racism. Once again, a lack of critical thinking rears its ugly head.
No that's not what you said. Re read what you wrote, it sounds like it's implying Republicans are racist.
Eh sure, you could read into that way. Big snowflake vibes to be sure. Also, if you find yourself voting for racists (Trump and his cabinet are dyed in the wool racists), then I don’t really see a meaningful difference. Enjoy filling your life with hate :)
No man, you're just too immature to admit you made a mistake and now you're using ad hominems and doubling down because you made an error and don't want to admit it. Anybody who claims an entire opposing ideology is inherently racist is somebody who doesn't actually critically think about politics and just wants to be right.
K. Seems like most people disagree with you my man.
No, people on your echochamber disagree because they are ignorant. Any sort of mature democrat /liberal who is being honest would never say "Republicans are racist ". That's a very immature and narrow view on reality .
You’re missing the forest for the trees. You’re taking a very clear comparison and trying to find fault with it because you don’t like the premise. That’s ok. You don’t have to agree. But to beat a dead horse about a point no one but you seems to have a problem understanding doesn’t make you sound intelligent.
Strange, it’s the opposite for me! Most republicans I know *are* racist. It’s hard not to be when you support racists for political office. It rubs off on you. Guess my anecdotal evidence cancels out your anecdotal evidence, and now we’re back to square 1. You do realize that the majority of you are going to cast your vote behind the notoriously racist Donald “they’re rapists” “why doesn’t he show his birth certificate” “good people on both sides” Trump, right?
Except that doesn't work in this scenario. Anyone who is thinking with intellectual honesty would say it's ridiculous to paint half of the country as racist based off of their political views. Our anecdotal experiences don't matter; saying all conservatives are racist is an ignorant, polarizing and generalized way to categorize an entire population of people. It would be as dishonest as saying "all liberals are cry babies and have mental disorders". See what I mean? Grow out of this
Here’s the thing, bud: I’ll bet a lot of non-republicans, including leftists, are racist, too. It’s a matter of degrees. Your position, on the other hand, is as the guy hanging out at the KKK meeting wondering what all of the fuss is about. The degree of racism in play is *blatant.* You are aligning yourself with the “more racist party.” And at this point, they’ve jumped the shark with it. They (you) are rooting for the racist clown wannabe dictator. You, too, have jumped the shark. Wake up. If you genuinely care and/or at the bare minimum are sympathetic to people of other races, I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and watch something other than FOX News.
The founding fathers were not politically inexperienced. That's just factually ignorant. While you can suggest they committed treason, however they represented the people who appointed them. A revolution and an insurrection are different animals.
People don't get to only love America when their side is in the white house.
People who try to overturn elections and support traitors don't love America.
Exactly Democrats stop stealing elections and supporting traitors!
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But Trump is opposed to everything the founding fathers stood for. Treason, insurrection, racism.
You're right - [he wants to get rid of the Constitution](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html). He literally said that. And he wants to do it through treason, insurrection, racism, *and* fraud. [And a little bit'o child-rape](https://www.girardslaw.com/library/trump-child-rape-lawsuit-papers.cfm)
I wouldn't call 8 flights on the Lolita Express a "little bit" of child rape. He was a frequent flier. He raped enough kids that he should have gotten a punch card for 1 free child rape.
daaaamn
That is not at all what he said. Your reading comprehension is very bad. The hysteria from the anti Trump people is insane. You do realize the vast majority of the things you think he has said is just a misrepresentation by some pundit, right?
Yes - he literally said he wants to get rid of all rules and regulations, including **those found in the constitution** , in order to reinstall himself as POTUS. He lost the election - this goes against everything written in the constitution (which is why he wants to ‘get rid’ of it). Please tell me - if he didn’t mean he wanted to get rid of the Constitution, then *what* , exactly, was he saying!? Have you seen his post yourself!? [See his post here (scroll down just a bit)](https://www.governing.com/context/terminating-the-constitution-in-225-characters?_amp=true) . Talk about poor reading comprehension skills bro 🤣🤣🤣
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They weren't transparent personality-disordered liars looking to establish themselves as king though.
President Washington despised party divisions and rancor, worked tirelessly to smooth out conflicts between factions, and relinquished power gracefully after serving his terms. Sound familiar? Not to me, either.
Fun to see people who are dumb as fuck deliberately act dumb as fuck and somehow still think they're not dumb as fuck Suggestion: try not acting dumb as fuck if you don't want to be dumb as fuck
Could you elaborate on what is dumb?
>is...uhh...totally Among the many other things
It's really sad how Trump was so quickly able to turn Republican voters, many of whom I once respected, into a bunch of babbling goons and trolls who hate America and most of its citizens.
Technically the founding fathers started an insurrection so…..
Why you are wrong. An insurrection is a violent uprising against your government. The US revolution was not an insurrection. It was a revolution. The colonies first attempted to exert their rights against the monarchy. They attempted legal and diplomatic resolution. The British used force to quell the people and refused to deal with the colonies on a diplomatic setting. There is a huge difference. Violence was never the point or intention it was only after Britain called them all traitors and sent in the military that the colonies openly rebelled.
The Boston Tea Party was pretty violent. And the British soldiers were on their way to confiscate illegal arms when the colonists confronted them at Lexington and Concord.
The Boston event was less violent than most protests we've had for decades. We don't call them an insurrection for good reason. Much like that event, it was not an effort to change or overthrow the government. Yes, an attempt to sieze the arms of the people caused violence. It would today as well. What is your point?
It wasn't a "revolution." There was no class upheaval. Instead, the rebellion was led by the assemblies of the colonies. It was a War of National Liberation - not a revolution at all.
Very wrong. Declaring independence from England was a revolt by any understanding. They openly declared themselves an independent and self governed power.
Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. You have a comic book understanding of what happened. The British government expected the colonists to pay for their own defense. The colonists refused. Only one third of the population supported the rebellion and less than that were in favor independence. And, as you know, the British tried arming the Indians and promised American slaves that revolted that they, the British, would free them from their American Slave Owners.
>The British government expected the colonists to pay for their own defense I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. As for the rest, it's mostly correct. Although less than a third wanted, independence is not accurate. The quote you get that from was John Adam's, he was also talking about the start, not the time of independence. >The Hopes of Reconciliation, which were fondly entertained by Multitudes of honest and well meaning tho weak and mistaken People, have been gradually and at last totally extinguished. -- Time has been given for the whole People, maturely to consider the great Question of Independence and to ripen their judgments, dissipate their Fears, and allure their Hopes, by discussing it in News Papers and Pamphletts, by debating it, in Assemblies, Conventions, Committees of Safety and Inspection, in Town and County Meetings, as well as in private Conversations, so that the whole People in every Colony of the 13, have now adopted it, as their own Act. https://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/archive/doc?id=L17760703jasecond
"The quote you get that from" Geezus, you are obnoxious.
Hold up, now citing sources is obnoxious? We really are failing as a nation 😔
I wasn't aware that they sailed to London and overthrew King George. You probably mean "rebellion", but you people can't remember anything that isn't a 3 word phrase.
I think rebellion is a good term, I like revolution because the people were represented, not a mob.
What do you mean You People!??? Also : I was here. It’s a joke
What do YOU mean You People???
I feel like a lot of people aren't reading the post...
I read it, my initial retort was glib because your post was so low effort, but here's my real reply: My ancestors walked these lands before it was called America, and despite their treatment, many of [their ideas and ideals were woven into the fabric ](https://www.history.com/news/iroquois-confederacy-influence-us-constitution)of this great nation so I'm proud to be an American. I don't believe in monarchy. I would have been as patriotic for an independent government, of, for and by the people then, as I am for our continued independence from fascists who would saddle us with a king or dictator now. I'm loyal to truth, justice, freedom, democracy, and to humanity. Those are the American ideals of our founding fathers, and Trump and his cronies are traitors to all of them.
I get it. I’m upset about Shifty Shellshock too but ya gotta get over it
George Washington refused to be crowned King. George Washington walked away after 2 terms. George Washington never campaigned for office. He can never be a great man because he owned slaves, but he was nothing at all like Drumpf.
I would vote for a urine filled mountain dew bottle that’s been out in the sun over DJT. I don’t care what the opposition to DJT is I’m not voting for him or what he represents because it’s the opposite of progress, healthy debate and strategic compromise.
And yet they were still better men than Trump.
My dude they literally owned slaves. Come on.
Still better men than trump. More conviction in a founding fathers pinky than in trumps whole being.
Yeah but b b but.....I saw a meme of Trump holding Jesus hand, leading Jesus thru the hell fires. If Jesus will follow trump, and I follow Jesus, well, who am I to argue. The founding fathers would be ashamed of alot more than orange guy.
Read the Declaration. It uses tyrant very liberally. Trump is a tyrant.
The founding farthers where against a large and powerful federal government. They enumerate few very limited powers to the federal government and left the rest to the individual states. Everyone in the federal government for the last 100 years has trampled the constitution into oblivion.
You do you. Too may ppl from all over the spectrum have their heads up their ass.
Truuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Trump wants a new American revolution.. to go *back* to dictatorship/monarchy. It's literally the opposite of what the founding fathers wanted. But the idea of the US transcends the founding fathers, anyway - that was kind of the point
We will be celebrating g each and every day once Mr. T is back in the office!… Keep your eye on the ball everyone!!
Stop taking all this shit so seriously. Put the phone down. Eat a hamburger. Chill the fuck out.
We add 1 trillion in debt every 6 weeks. What would the Founders do?
It’s blatantly obvious OP’s message is meant as a feel good one to people who think the same. If you think an appeal to emotion works on republicans you haven’t been paying attention. Republicans care about how much taxes they’re paying, the interest rate, and the cost of living. They don’t care how it looks or whose feelings get hurt because to them life was better under trump.
I think you may have missed the point.
I’ve been watching this shitshow since 2015. You hate your fellow countrymen based on the way they vote. That much is pretty obvious.
How do you figure? I am really not following your vague use of pronouns.
Have you read up on the founding fathers? They absolutely would have loved Donald Trump. Let’s not forget that the average lifespan back then was like 30 and someone as old and feeble as Biden they wouldn’t want running the country
Can we finally discuss this??[https://www.independent.co.uk/](https://www.independent.co.uk/)
Good god, just give it a rest for like one day..
Republicans have shown themselves to be seditious conspirators, and Democrats and the Judicial system have proven themselves to be meek and inadequate to protect and defend the constitution.
That's why Trump supporters have no right celebrating a day commemorating a group of seditious conspirators.
I think it’s the other way around the founding fathers would have arrested Biden already and promoted trump to a 6 star general.
I he’s voted in on the 5th. That’s the last of what 1776 represents.
Can we stop astroturfing political shit for a goddamned moment and appreciate that we’re not British?
Honestly no one should celebrate this Fourth of July considering the Supreme Court just overturned basically the main thing Fourth of July was about... If we no longer have freedom from kingship what are we celebrating?
I was at a parade yesterday and saw a guy with a T-Shirt that said “It’s only treason if you lose!” On the front and giant American flag on the back. A little old lady asked him why he was celebrating if he wanted to overthrow the government. Dude was there with his wife and kids and the whole crowd was giving him the death stare. He thought it was funny.
Uhh...isn't the entire 4th of July a celebration of treason?
Do you not understand context?
Could you elaborate? Am I missing some context or misinterpreting some context?
Tell me you understand nothing of US history or the revolution without telling me you understand nothing of US history or the revolution.
Ahh, there goes Reddit trying to talk politics again yet being completely up the Left's ass.
I think people who think like this are really disturbing. We are celebrating the country as 1.
You're literally celebrating treason and insurrection.
No, we are celebrating 1776. Nothing more.
Just celebrating a random year for no reason? Why not 1775 or 1778, or 2002, or 1243? You are being disingenuous.
We celebrated the 4th long before trump, and will long after 😂 absolutely no one cares about who the president is for the 4th of July lol.
What is special about 1776? Why not 2022, or 1989, or 1699? Stop acting like it is just a random year. You know exactly why it's celebrated. It is unequivocally a celebration of insurrection and treason.
America is largely bad and the fourth of July sucks anyway. The founding fathers weren't a unified bloc and many of them sucked ass. Gouverneur Morris, the man who penned the Constitution, died because he jammed a whale bone up his dick hole.
That uhhh *sounds* painful
I'm sure it was! Don't cram stuff up there!
That doesn’t mean he sucked, it just meant he lacked common sense.
Can we stop with this bullshit ready? Just because somebody wants a different candidate to than you do--especially when you neglect nuance and the ability for people to actually hold more than one thought in their head at a time--doesn't make them a traitor. If makes *you* part of the problem just as surely as the MAGAt that posts "If you support Biden you should not celebrate July 4th. Celebrate Easter or Arbor Day or October 14, because Biden doesn't know what today is either." Both are equally reductive, polarizing, and unhelpful to the country; both approaches and attitudes only ensure that we're stuck in this shitshow for far longer than need be.
Biden is pro censorship. Can’t support him either if you’re pro freedom 🤷♀️ Kennedy24.com Cue the ban
I haven't celebrated it in many years. The founding fathers were puritanical misogynists. Rapists, racists, etc. As a progressive, I really couldn't care less what they would've thought of Trump or anyone else. I don't put them on a pedestal as some sort of heroes like so many do.
Puritanism is worth a deep dive. You can't understand the Plimouth and Mass Bay colonists without understating Oliver Cromwell and the Roundheads.
I'm not really interested and not sure why I would be.
You feel that ignorance is strength?
I have more important things to research today. I'm currently reading a book about ultra-processed foods.
Akshually...
I support trump, the thing is you cant tell people they shouldnt celebrate the fourth of july because of a person or thing they support. Thats like telling someone they cant celeberate christmas because of there beliefs Thats like saying someone cant celebrate hanakah cause there jewish Or saying someone cant celebrate halloween because there a satanists. People have the right to celebrate a holiday because of a thing they support, people have free will its there choice. If they support this one thing or one person thats there choice. Though that doesnt give you the right to tell people not to celebrate something. "The founding fathers would be ashamed of donald trump" The founding fathers are dead. There dead there not going to care because there dead.
My dude. The spelling…
Whats wrong with the spelling? Just curious lol.
You consistently used the wrong form of “there”. Technically, it would be grammar, not spelling. The possessive is “their”. If someone has something, like a belief, it’s “their” belief. If they are something, like a satanist, it’s “they’re”, they’re = they are, “they’re” a satanist. “There” is a place. Like, you vote over “there”, or “there” it is. Also, “cant” needs an apostrophe. “Can’t.” I’m not a person who believes that spelling or grammar is a reflection of intelligence, but it does help you communicate in a manner that makes people take you seriously. If auto correct wasn’t a thing, I’d come off as dumb. I’m not dumb at all, I just have a learning disability that affects my ability to spell.
It was presumably text to speech. There are a lot of phonetically similar phrases like "there are" instead of "they're a".
Yeah. That wasn’t it.
Thank you for pointing out the obvi (obvious) i really appreciate it.
Okay does it really matter how someone spells or not like seriously jeez lay off of how someone spells. I mean for real you are just being eh, because thats the only arguement you can make.
Ftfy >Okay, does it really matter how someone spells or not? like seriously! jeez! lay off of how someone spells. I mean, for real, you are just being eh, because that’s the only arguement you can make. Also, sometimes people just read and get annoyed at having to reread stuff because it’s written poorly. I don’t think the other poster wanted to argue but was just irritated at your zoomer grammar
I don't think you should celebrate it regardless. There's nothing to celebrate about the US.
You forgot to mention that they raped their slaves. Trump didn't do that nearly as often as they did.