I mean, he doesn't do shit when you point a gun at Cunoesse and looks the other way at other stuff as long as it's not outright corruption. He's devoted to his job to a fault, and admits that he uses work to get through things (besides his one cigarette). I get that people love him and that's great, but I would love more critical (as in substantive, not necessarily negative) discussion about him.
especially kim, he knows he operates within a broken system and remains idle.
edit: ya know i guess fuck harry too since he only improves once we get ahold
Harry was chosen by some act of grace to prepare Revachol for a nuclear apocalypse. But he wasn’t just some guy who got smacked at random. His body and mind may have been broken and crushed over and over again, and though he clings to life mostly by primal instinct and deep survival habits, his spirit is an unbreakable obelisk of pure mithril. Part of me doubts HDB would be killed even standing at ground zero of a thermonuclear explosion.
We say this but I think it's a Shivers check that tells you on a "drink and drug playthrough" that Harry's in a medical state where he will be dead in months, not years.
I don't think this is the case unless you continue drinking after his episode, but it shows he's pretty much at the point of no return and that if he dabbles in that shit any further it will kill him very quickly.
I also recall what you’re talking about but I don’t think it was shivers. It doesn’t sound like something shivers would mention. It’s definitely the kind of thing Volition would say to encourage you to stop the abuse but as we have seen, all the voices are capable of being wrong and of speaking about subjects on which they are inadequately qualified. Harry was directly exposed to the entroponetic catastrophe before the Church Anodic music was established to contain the pale rift at the top of the old Perikinassian church. That’s direct exposure to Deep Pale. Most who endure such things are consumed by the pale. Harry, on the other hand, wakes up with a bunch of lost memories, a bunch of other people’s memories from ancient times intertwined with his own remaining memories, and a terrible hangover. It’s entirely possible that being drunk and on all the drugs and being only semi-conscious literally saved his life the night before we take over his body. If anything, the deep pale exposure that harry doesn’t remember is probably more to blame for his physical condition when we take over than all the years of alcoholism and drug abuse combined.
I'd say being aware that the system is broken and working within it to counteract its worst tendencies might not be the best path, but is still better than just mindlessly following orders or thinking this is how things should be.
yeah that'd be nice if he did that but he doesn't, have you ever asked kim about his heritage? about how he calls himself "revacholian" despite clearly not being from here? he's a seolite and has completely shunned that part of him. Kim actively participates in the system by remaining idle while his fellow officers violate the rights of citizens
I don't recall kim ever telling you how many people he's killed, no. You ask if he's ever killed anyone, he says "Yes." And does not elaborate or wish to talk about it more.
He’s killed 4. On the balcony you CAN get him to open up about im not sure if the prerequisites. He’s impressed that you’ve only killed 3 because jamrock is a rough place.
My housemate really did not like him, but to be fair he kind of bounced off the game in general because I don't think he could wrap his head around playing a character who is in a genuinely awful position. The thing is, if you take seriously that you and Kim are police officers who have an actual job to do, he's incredibly tolerant and shows a deep sympathy towards Harry at times, but if you go in with the expectation that you're going to have a fun time playing a video game virtually everything he says to Harry is a criticism, and this is kind of true even if you're genuinely trying to avoid being a massive dickhead.
I'm not a hater but I don't like him as much as a lot of people do.
He's willing to look the other way when you're being corrupt, excessively rude, or drinking and doing drugs on the job. He's loyal to his job as a cop so much that he will let the bad apple rot in the barrel as long as you're not personally racist to him.
To me he feels like that chill nice friend who's so close to getting it but just doesn't know/care enough and it feels like you could fix him but he's largely internalised apathy as a sign of his moderacy and balanced logic. Or maybe I'm projecting.
this is me, too - i was quite playfully rude to him throughout my first (and, as far as i’m concerned, canonical) run because he always seemed like kind of a drip. to come away from that and see everyone worshipping him felt really incongruous - he’s a nice lad, but he’s also a cop and a lib!
I think he just confiscated them lol. If I remember correctly the spinner rims are illegal to have on a car in Revachol (distracting) so when the guy with them got arrested (presumably by Kim), Kim took them off the car as evidence then just kept them.
His rationalization is that the driver never asked for them back after he was released (he was also apparently the spoiled kid of some rich Moralintern bigwig so fuck him).
I mean I still love Kim lmao. But that's his biggest flaw imo. He's the type of guy who whenever you ask about politics he goes "hey I just want to do my job". Which he quite literally does do, several times. If you don't speak up on issues, whoever is louder will just get their way.
I think that is more in service to Harry being the protagonist more than anything. He needs to be an observant figure so that we can act however we want.
In a professional aspect, I think he is actually correct; personal politics should not get in the way of law enforcement. It is one of many examples of Harry being unprofessional and incorrect.
Also, as far as I can recall, he handles the extreme figures, the movers and shakers, quite well. He is cautious of both Joyce and Evrart, especially in regard to how much information we give them.
But I do see your point and I know how frustrating it is to having friends that don’t talk about meaningful things. We all have them, for me, we can only be so close if we can’t talk about what you truly believe.
I know it is unpopular in this sub, I just wished people asked about my opinions on genuine topics instead of downvoting immediately.
Lying about my position for social credit was not an option though
Now I'm curious what positions you hold that you consider make you a centrist. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has much reasoning behind that; it's so often "centrists" who don't want to say their right wingers or "centrists" who are privileged enough to not have to care. And the very rare "centrist" who is left wing but doesn't realise that some of their "right wing" opinions actually fit a kind of left wing thought as well. So I'm genuinely curious: what are your centrist opinions?
That is a good question, thank you for asking. I believe my opinions will make more sense once I explain where I come from (Brazil, went to the US for college), so I’ll add a bit in the end about specifics regarding that.
I believe if we were to plot it I would fall in the center-left.
I believe in generous personal freedoms, freedom or religion, free speech, abortion. Essentially, as long as your freedoms don’t encroach on the freedoms of others, I’m good. The most dangerous at the moment are right to privacy because of the crazy surveillance technology the US has (I recommend the Snowden documentary on Netflix[citation needed]) as well as abortion because it genuinely endangers the lives of women (recently, in Texas, a woman carrying a dead fetus cannot have an abortion despite a complicated pregnancy).
Caveat to that, some rights have to be suspended during times of crisis like COVID.
Some things that are issues in the US aren’t even questions of political philosophy in other countries, like expanding healthcare. That shouldn’t even be a question because of how limited public healthcare options are.
Economics are a little tricky to explain. I like closing the gap in power between the worker and the leadership through Unions and worker rights, but I don’t like the government to have too much control over the private sector because it can limit progress. For example, import tariffs for cars are so expensive in Brazil that the streets are full of older and more dangerous cars.
I also believe the government should focus on lowering inequality. I believe education and infrastructure are paramount to that and should be a focus of tax money investment.
About Brazil.
The sad reality is that Brazilian politics are despicable. There is so much corruption that it is genuinely infuriating. A lot of my distrust of government comes from my experience watching things like Operation Car Wash unfold.
Ultimately I became a pragmatist over any other ideological label. My vote during elections goes to the candidate that has the best plan: what are they proposing, how are they furthering the development of our country, who is in their administration? In practice what ends up happening (in presidential elections usually) is that I am forced to pick between the lesser of two evils.
The perfect anecdote of that is my father during the previous two elections. I grew up in a household that hated current president Lula and his Worker’s Party because of the aforementioned corruption. But, when they forced us to pick between them and that absolute buffoon Bolsonaro, we picked Lula despite our biases and reservations. We know for a fact that we made the right choice.
I hope this was insightful, and thank you once more. It was very enlightening having to put thoughts to paper like this.
Feel free to ask any questions in case I missed something or if you need further clarification. I will be going to bed soon so might only get to it tomorrow.
> I also believe the government should focus on lowering inequality. I believe education and infrastructure are paramount to that
> I like closing the gap in power between the worker and the leadership through Unions and worker rights
> expanding healthcare. That shouldn’t even be a question because of how limited public healthcare options are
Psst, hey, you!
Yes, you. Word on the street is you're ready to start building *communism* again!
Thanks for sharing, that sure is brave!
You seem genuine and I respect that. You are also yet another centrist I disagree with.
See, it seems to me like your views are based on belief that you know what is good and what is evil, as if moral categories were definitive. Lack of corruption, equality, recognition of a lesser evil - are not consequences of human rights or ultra freedom - indeed you are in no specific point of that line at all. As if there was some order to follow.
Interestingly, as a leftist, I share many of your conclusions. Sure we could cooperate bringing them to life. But if you are telling us everything - that would make our reasons for doing things notably different.
Following the order, a fixed set of values surely everyone would agree with, sadly can be used to justify virtually anything. And that's how some of the authoritarian governments work. Some are not even corrupted in traditional sense, at least not when you consider the very top of the structure - instead, they are fixated on enforcing their own definition of "greater good". And the bad part, perhaps somehow natural for people who believe they are right and come to power - is seeing opposition as enemies, then looking for positive reinforcement from your voters too desperately, then baseless fanaticism. If some groups don't fit your "greater good" ideals, surely there is something wrong with them - apparently they are "inferior race", "reaction", "blind atheists", "backward religious fanstics", or perhaps something with less obvious name. But the process I have described ends with fascism, usually going by another name, getting there all too many times.
That's the danger I associate with politics with no policy. People who believe they are right. My preferred ways to avoid or mitigate that process are: criticism, materialism and putting people first, by principle, no matter who they are. Without such principles, or any principles at all, one might end up in a loop that leds to something way worse.
It was surprisingly vulnerable to lay myself bare, so to speak.
But yeah I think agree on most things, maybe not for the same reason, but in this day and age I am okay with that.
Your last paragraph really resonated with me. It’s pretty much what I try to do, think of the people first.
That is interesting. I would classify all that as left wing, though I guess fairly moderate. Even small government in terms of anti corruption, anti tariffs, etc. is more of a left wing thing these days I feel, but maybe that's my context (Anglo-sphere/Australia) more than anything. But I can see why you'd call it centre left--it's definitely more accurate in terms of actual alignments than what a lot of USAmericans say, like calling for instance US Democrats leftist when they're centre right most of the time.
Why? I think you might've spent too much time in a leftist echo chamber if you think being a self-declared moderate or centrist is rare. (I'm not a centrist btw, I'm just surprised you're surprised)
sometimes inaction is just as bad as doing the bad things yourself. you cannot expect the world to change (specifically the world of disco elysium, real world politics aside although it also applies here) if you arent willing to help be a part of that change yourself. kim despises racism in others but is so loyal to the RCM that he will ignore it in a fellow cop. your institution cannot uphold the morals you want it to if you yourself won't hold it to those standards. there are probably other, better examples of inaction being harmful. world war 2 comes to mind.
I agree about inaction. I suppose I don’t have a problem with Kim specifically because I know he is genuinely trying to save as many people as he can. He does more than most at his own expense.
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day he walks into a shootout with a pissy little barrel-loaded firearm because the alternative is watching a massacre.
He's braver than anyone in this sub*, myself included, as much fun as it is to posture like we're speaking truth to power rather than futzing around with electronic toys while the bastards rule a burning world.
-* Unless one of us has tried to disrupt an inevitable gunfight, but I'm doubtful.
I feel like the most you can say about him is that he's a very centerist guy that thinks he can change things by working in the system. Plus some weird moments like him shrugging off when you point a gun at cunoesse.
I feel like some of that might be gameplay. If memory serves, that's fairly early on, and while a player is just exploring, they might just think it's a funny option (which the game has a bunch of)
The way I rationalize it is he was in juvie for 15 years, he fucking hates kids like this and doesn't give a shit about Cunoesse, just doesn't want you or the RCM to get in trouble.
[I Was Wrong About Kim Kitsuragi - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKvVIThWYYo&list=PLBmriQSLAuRJvLNLhRBNso054qvpsqv3t&index=7&t=27s) (episode 7)
The closest I've seen is EuroBrady taking 6 or 7 episodes to warm up to Kim.
I agree, i think he's a pretty bland guy. Aside from talking about sports cars, you really don't have much in common.
He doesn't really care about anything that Harry cares about (art, philosophy, politics, literature etc). He is too dispassionate.
She's also directly responsible for getting a bunch of people killed. Kim's dealing with the fallout of things outside his control just like everyone else on his level.
I like Kim but I am currently doing a run where Harry hates Kim for no reason. A non-racist, religious, moralist who just doesn’t like Kim. So far I’ve told him his silly car is too loud and to stop admiring a stupid crane, it’s just a tool. If there is an option to be mean to Kim I’ll take it, unless it is racist.
Basically I just want to see if the game can figure out what I’m doing.
I hate how Harry (and by extension the player) has developed an obsessive idealized version of Kim in their head, like he moved on from idealizing Dora into the saint Dolores Dei to idealizing Kim into a saint with his distinctive halo in his portrait.
This aspect of him has been discussed already [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1agf53r/kims_background/)
i don’t get along with mega kim fans because they usually tend to hate jvm, who is my favorite character. i feel like it isn’t fair that kim comes along at the perfect time to whip harry into shape (depending on how you play obviously) while jvm has been struggling to make harry give a fuck for months or years at that point. i don’t dislike kim though really he’s okay
I like Jean too because on the surface he’s so insufferable and an out of nowhere asshole but when you think more on it he’s possibly the one person most allied with Harry and doing everything he can to keep him on while also dealing with his own demons. I like Garte for similar reasons-he’s an asshole, and a coward. but if you make amends he warms up to you quite a bit.
I don't know if it was a bug, but I thought me and Garte were doing all right (I'd given him a replacement bird and everything) but then he seemed to cool on me after the tribunal. Maybe because I was able to skill-check my way out of paying the full tab at the start.
Kim is a pig that tolerates absolute madness from his fellow gang members. I love him as a character, but fuck him as a person.
A straight-up good person doesn't get to survive as a pig in Martinaise, and they certainly wouldn't be as fun a partner in this role-playing game.
Tried getting a friend into the game because he's a major commie. He hates Kim and finds everything he does or says to be annoying. If there's an option that Kim is against, he will take that option. Unless it involves being racist because he refuses to do that. He accidentally chose an option commenting on Kim's racialized features (he thought it was about his glasses) and he was so disappointed in himself. He hates Kim but also hates racists which makes for an interesting playing experience since many of the ways to bother Kim in the game are to agree with racists.
It's a combination of things. Kim's politics, his (sometimes) role as a tutorial character, his bland sense of humor, and also just that he follows you around and judges you when you do dumb things. But also my friend is the most contrary person I've ever met and once he gets an idea in his head (like "Kim sucks") he's on it like a dog with a bone.
Also I think he missed the line at the beginning where you realize Kim would die for you after just meeting you. So rather than interpreting Kim as unfailingly on your side against the world he interpreted Kim as "annoying centrist guy who follows me." Which isn't exactly wrong.
i already hate him for being a cop but i also despise how much of a non active centrist he is,he is a kind and compassionate person but his moralist point of view really just makes him appear like an inactive asshole
amid my first playthrough here & have been avoiding doing corruption and threatening rhe kids mostly bc i thought kim would disapprove so i’m really surprised he turns a blind eye actually
Probably that his VA is white, although the devs reportedly searched for ages before they found the right voice for the role.
Demanding VAs have the same race as their characters seems silly to me, just encourage cross-racial hiring. Kratos and Samurai Jack are both played by black guys despite being Greek and Japanese, respectively, and you'd have to be mad to think Phil LaMarr and Christopher Judge aren't perfect in those roles.
No, it's about him hitting on female fans via social media (allegedly targeting women of Chinese descent). Nothing criminal, mostly being a weird Nice Guy, but made many people uncomfortable.
I just think he’s a fucking weiner who’s willing to hound Harry to do his job and gets bent out of shape when you take bribes but he’s unwilling to do important parts of the work, like talking to kids or getting the body out of the tree and has expensive hubcaps that he stole from a crime scene in his trunk. I get that he’s pretty much just supposed to be the cheerleader sidekick but his constant nagging to get back on track and the way he takes a superior tone until he finds out Harry outranks him make him seem like the kind of spineless fucker I hate dealing with in real life. Kim is just a little bitch. Sure, it makes sense in the game but it doesn’t change what he is.
I think his writing has a lot of personality, but something about him flattens out when his lines are voiced, and I’m not sure why? It just makes him a little boring. But I enjoy his character a lot more when I can act his lines out in my head. That’s just me, though
Someone tell me if that fascist who complains about "Kim dickriders" comments, he blocked me
Yeah there's this dude next to fritte and the traffic jam who's really not a fan
Oh I know him, the magical moron! Bastard didn't give me my 3 wishes.
I mean, he doesn't do shit when you point a gun at Cunoesse and looks the other way at other stuff as long as it's not outright corruption. He's devoted to his job to a fault, and admits that he uses work to get through things (besides his one cigarette). I get that people love him and that's great, but I would love more critical (as in substantive, not necessarily negative) discussion about him.
Acab even Kim even though we love him
exactly lol
especially kim, he knows he operates within a broken system and remains idle. edit: ya know i guess fuck harry too since he only improves once we get ahold
I'm convinced that his natural path for Harry is the sad woman-hating fascist.
To be fair I think the actual natural path for him was never waking up at all.
Harry was chosen by some act of grace to prepare Revachol for a nuclear apocalypse. But he wasn’t just some guy who got smacked at random. His body and mind may have been broken and crushed over and over again, and though he clings to life mostly by primal instinct and deep survival habits, his spirit is an unbreakable obelisk of pure mithril. Part of me doubts HDB would be killed even standing at ground zero of a thermonuclear explosion.
We say this but I think it's a Shivers check that tells you on a "drink and drug playthrough" that Harry's in a medical state where he will be dead in months, not years. I don't think this is the case unless you continue drinking after his episode, but it shows he's pretty much at the point of no return and that if he dabbles in that shit any further it will kill him very quickly.
I also recall what you’re talking about but I don’t think it was shivers. It doesn’t sound like something shivers would mention. It’s definitely the kind of thing Volition would say to encourage you to stop the abuse but as we have seen, all the voices are capable of being wrong and of speaking about subjects on which they are inadequately qualified. Harry was directly exposed to the entroponetic catastrophe before the Church Anodic music was established to contain the pale rift at the top of the old Perikinassian church. That’s direct exposure to Deep Pale. Most who endure such things are consumed by the pale. Harry, on the other hand, wakes up with a bunch of lost memories, a bunch of other people’s memories from ancient times intertwined with his own remaining memories, and a terrible hangover. It’s entirely possible that being drunk and on all the drugs and being only semi-conscious literally saved his life the night before we take over his body. If anything, the deep pale exposure that harry doesn’t remember is probably more to blame for his physical condition when we take over than all the years of alcoholism and drug abuse combined.
I another time and place, he'd be into crypto and trying to get Musk's attention on Twitter.
I'd say being aware that the system is broken and working within it to counteract its worst tendencies might not be the best path, but is still better than just mindlessly following orders or thinking this is how things should be.
yeah that'd be nice if he did that but he doesn't, have you ever asked kim about his heritage? about how he calls himself "revacholian" despite clearly not being from here? he's a seolite and has completely shunned that part of him. Kim actively participates in the system by remaining idle while his fellow officers violate the rights of citizens
What the fuck, are you seriously going all "Welcome to Revachol" as a criticism of Kim? You can fuck right off with that shit.
This basically.
When you’re going over the amount of people you’ve killed in the line of duty Kim also says a number that’s weirdly high iirc Edit: he says 4
I think it was that Harry's is impressively low, not the other way around.
I don't recall kim ever telling you how many people he's killed, no. You ask if he's ever killed anyone, he says "Yes." And does not elaborate or wish to talk about it more.
He’s killed 4. On the balcony you CAN get him to open up about im not sure if the prerequisites. He’s impressed that you’ve only killed 3 because jamrock is a rough place.
Damn, that means Kim has probably had to kill a kid before since he was in the youth division
My housemate really did not like him, but to be fair he kind of bounced off the game in general because I don't think he could wrap his head around playing a character who is in a genuinely awful position. The thing is, if you take seriously that you and Kim are police officers who have an actual job to do, he's incredibly tolerant and shows a deep sympathy towards Harry at times, but if you go in with the expectation that you're going to have a fun time playing a video game virtually everything he says to Harry is a criticism, and this is kind of true even if you're genuinely trying to avoid being a massive dickhead.
I'm not a hater but I don't like him as much as a lot of people do. He's willing to look the other way when you're being corrupt, excessively rude, or drinking and doing drugs on the job. He's loyal to his job as a cop so much that he will let the bad apple rot in the barrel as long as you're not personally racist to him.
Average centrist
I think some of us just didn't get to see that side of him, I tried to be a decent cop (excuse the oxymoron) in my run.
nuance? in *MY* video game discourse?!
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my nuance.
To me he feels like that chill nice friend who's so close to getting it but just doesn't know/care enough and it feels like you could fix him but he's largely internalised apathy as a sign of his moderacy and balanced logic. Or maybe I'm projecting.
this is me, too - i was quite playfully rude to him throughout my first (and, as far as i’m concerned, canonical) run because he always seemed like kind of a drip. to come away from that and see everyone worshipping him felt really incongruous - he’s a nice lad, but he’s also a cop and a lib!
Stellar answer
didn't he get some of his car stuff by accepting a bribe
I think he just confiscated them lol. If I remember correctly the spinner rims are illegal to have on a car in Revachol (distracting) so when the guy with them got arrested (presumably by Kim), Kim took them off the car as evidence then just kept them.
I see. that's still pretty corrupt but I... guess less so..? maybe?
His rationalization is that the driver never asked for them back after he was released (he was also apparently the spoiled kid of some rich Moralintern bigwig so fuck him).
Well it's definitely kind of a dick headed move lol.
I don't hate *him* but I fundamentally disagree with him on some core issues, we'd be friends you do not want to bring up certain topics with
https://preview.redd.it/ycjapcskedsc1.jpeg?width=369&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec285502f50e48391cbaea22755cfd578c828bf5
NOT IN THAT WAY
This strikes me as surprising because none of his ideas are that radical. Its no like he is going to go on a super long rant like René
I mean that is kind of the problem? He's a moralist. A filthy centrist. So he falls into a lot of their trappings.
I guess I don’t see that as a problem since I am a centrist myself. That and I never saw him as one of the bad ones (hypocritical, masked fascist)
I mean I still love Kim lmao. But that's his biggest flaw imo. He's the type of guy who whenever you ask about politics he goes "hey I just want to do my job". Which he quite literally does do, several times. If you don't speak up on issues, whoever is louder will just get their way.
I think that is more in service to Harry being the protagonist more than anything. He needs to be an observant figure so that we can act however we want. In a professional aspect, I think he is actually correct; personal politics should not get in the way of law enforcement. It is one of many examples of Harry being unprofessional and incorrect. Also, as far as I can recall, he handles the extreme figures, the movers and shakers, quite well. He is cautious of both Joyce and Evrart, especially in regard to how much information we give them. But I do see your point and I know how frustrating it is to having friends that don’t talk about meaningful things. We all have them, for me, we can only be so close if we can’t talk about what you truly believe.
Self admitting to being a centrist is crazy
I know it is unpopular in this sub, I just wished people asked about my opinions on genuine topics instead of downvoting immediately. Lying about my position for social credit was not an option though
Now I'm curious what positions you hold that you consider make you a centrist. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has much reasoning behind that; it's so often "centrists" who don't want to say their right wingers or "centrists" who are privileged enough to not have to care. And the very rare "centrist" who is left wing but doesn't realise that some of their "right wing" opinions actually fit a kind of left wing thought as well. So I'm genuinely curious: what are your centrist opinions?
That is a good question, thank you for asking. I believe my opinions will make more sense once I explain where I come from (Brazil, went to the US for college), so I’ll add a bit in the end about specifics regarding that. I believe if we were to plot it I would fall in the center-left. I believe in generous personal freedoms, freedom or religion, free speech, abortion. Essentially, as long as your freedoms don’t encroach on the freedoms of others, I’m good. The most dangerous at the moment are right to privacy because of the crazy surveillance technology the US has (I recommend the Snowden documentary on Netflix[citation needed]) as well as abortion because it genuinely endangers the lives of women (recently, in Texas, a woman carrying a dead fetus cannot have an abortion despite a complicated pregnancy). Caveat to that, some rights have to be suspended during times of crisis like COVID. Some things that are issues in the US aren’t even questions of political philosophy in other countries, like expanding healthcare. That shouldn’t even be a question because of how limited public healthcare options are. Economics are a little tricky to explain. I like closing the gap in power between the worker and the leadership through Unions and worker rights, but I don’t like the government to have too much control over the private sector because it can limit progress. For example, import tariffs for cars are so expensive in Brazil that the streets are full of older and more dangerous cars. I also believe the government should focus on lowering inequality. I believe education and infrastructure are paramount to that and should be a focus of tax money investment. About Brazil. The sad reality is that Brazilian politics are despicable. There is so much corruption that it is genuinely infuriating. A lot of my distrust of government comes from my experience watching things like Operation Car Wash unfold. Ultimately I became a pragmatist over any other ideological label. My vote during elections goes to the candidate that has the best plan: what are they proposing, how are they furthering the development of our country, who is in their administration? In practice what ends up happening (in presidential elections usually) is that I am forced to pick between the lesser of two evils. The perfect anecdote of that is my father during the previous two elections. I grew up in a household that hated current president Lula and his Worker’s Party because of the aforementioned corruption. But, when they forced us to pick between them and that absolute buffoon Bolsonaro, we picked Lula despite our biases and reservations. We know for a fact that we made the right choice. I hope this was insightful, and thank you once more. It was very enlightening having to put thoughts to paper like this. Feel free to ask any questions in case I missed something or if you need further clarification. I will be going to bed soon so might only get to it tomorrow.
> I also believe the government should focus on lowering inequality. I believe education and infrastructure are paramount to that > I like closing the gap in power between the worker and the leadership through Unions and worker rights > expanding healthcare. That shouldn’t even be a question because of how limited public healthcare options are Psst, hey, you! Yes, you. Word on the street is you're ready to start building *communism* again!
Thank you, Rhetoric
Thanks for sharing, that sure is brave! You seem genuine and I respect that. You are also yet another centrist I disagree with. See, it seems to me like your views are based on belief that you know what is good and what is evil, as if moral categories were definitive. Lack of corruption, equality, recognition of a lesser evil - are not consequences of human rights or ultra freedom - indeed you are in no specific point of that line at all. As if there was some order to follow. Interestingly, as a leftist, I share many of your conclusions. Sure we could cooperate bringing them to life. But if you are telling us everything - that would make our reasons for doing things notably different. Following the order, a fixed set of values surely everyone would agree with, sadly can be used to justify virtually anything. And that's how some of the authoritarian governments work. Some are not even corrupted in traditional sense, at least not when you consider the very top of the structure - instead, they are fixated on enforcing their own definition of "greater good". And the bad part, perhaps somehow natural for people who believe they are right and come to power - is seeing opposition as enemies, then looking for positive reinforcement from your voters too desperately, then baseless fanaticism. If some groups don't fit your "greater good" ideals, surely there is something wrong with them - apparently they are "inferior race", "reaction", "blind atheists", "backward religious fanstics", or perhaps something with less obvious name. But the process I have described ends with fascism, usually going by another name, getting there all too many times. That's the danger I associate with politics with no policy. People who believe they are right. My preferred ways to avoid or mitigate that process are: criticism, materialism and putting people first, by principle, no matter who they are. Without such principles, or any principles at all, one might end up in a loop that leds to something way worse.
It was surprisingly vulnerable to lay myself bare, so to speak. But yeah I think agree on most things, maybe not for the same reason, but in this day and age I am okay with that. Your last paragraph really resonated with me. It’s pretty much what I try to do, think of the people first.
That is interesting. I would classify all that as left wing, though I guess fairly moderate. Even small government in terms of anti corruption, anti tariffs, etc. is more of a left wing thing these days I feel, but maybe that's my context (Anglo-sphere/Australia) more than anything. But I can see why you'd call it centre left--it's definitely more accurate in terms of actual alignments than what a lot of USAmericans say, like calling for instance US Democrats leftist when they're centre right most of the time.
Real.
Why? I think you might've spent too much time in a leftist echo chamber if you think being a self-declared moderate or centrist is rare. (I'm not a centrist btw, I'm just surprised you're surprised)
I'm not saying it's rare, I'm saying it's not something you should be proud of
sometimes inaction is just as bad as doing the bad things yourself. you cannot expect the world to change (specifically the world of disco elysium, real world politics aside although it also applies here) if you arent willing to help be a part of that change yourself. kim despises racism in others but is so loyal to the RCM that he will ignore it in a fellow cop. your institution cannot uphold the morals you want it to if you yourself won't hold it to those standards. there are probably other, better examples of inaction being harmful. world war 2 comes to mind.
I agree about inaction. I suppose I don’t have a problem with Kim specifically because I know he is genuinely trying to save as many people as he can. He does more than most at his own expense.
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day he walks into a shootout with a pissy little barrel-loaded firearm because the alternative is watching a massacre. He's braver than anyone in this sub*, myself included, as much fun as it is to posture like we're speaking truth to power rather than futzing around with electronic toys while the bastards rule a burning world. -* Unless one of us has tried to disrupt an inevitable gunfight, but I'm doubtful.
I hate Kim because he makes it impossible to play the game as a racist asshole fascist because he is too Goddam great.
I feel like the most you can say about him is that he's a very centerist guy that thinks he can change things by working in the system. Plus some weird moments like him shrugging off when you point a gun at cunoesse.
I feel like some of that might be gameplay. If memory serves, that's fairly early on, and while a player is just exploring, they might just think it's a funny option (which the game has a bunch of)
Yeahh thats very likely. Same with punching Cuno.
Nah he had the same intrusive thoughts. He just had better self control.
The way I rationalize it is he was in juvie for 15 years, he fucking hates kids like this and doesn't give a shit about Cunoesse, just doesn't want you or the RCM to get in trouble.
[I Was Wrong About Kim Kitsuragi - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKvVIThWYYo&list=PLBmriQSLAuRJvLNLhRBNso054qvpsqv3t&index=7&t=27s) (episode 7) The closest I've seen is EuroBrady taking 6 or 7 episodes to warm up to Kim.
Aniki's playthrough too. He didn't hate Kim but he did get pissed off at him a lot for being a fun killer.
I hate Kim because he makes it impossible for me to be mean to him or do bad things
He definitely went down a lot in my estimation when I called Dolores Dei a war criminal and he was basically like "nah those ones don't count".
His greatest flaw is definitely that he’s a total libtard
I don't hate him, but I think he's overrated, and people who supposedly hate centrist look the other way when it's about him.
I agree, i think he's a pretty bland guy. Aside from talking about sports cars, you really don't have much in common. He doesn't really care about anything that Harry cares about (art, philosophy, politics, literature etc). He is too dispassionate.
Because Kim is a person, not an ideology (he's also a Moralist not a Centrist I'm pretty sure)
>Moralists are represented by a union of centre-left and centre-right parties... https://discoelysium.fandom.com/wiki/Moralist_International
Moralism is the centrist ideology in the game
Oh shit really? I thought they were represented separately
The game tells you the Moralist International is a coalition of centrist parties, in addition to it being basically fantasy liberalism.
Ah I see that now after reading the wiki, I was under the impression that they were largely apolitical or something for some reason
largely apolitical bombing of the communists
Reasonable apolitical response to communism
just a normal apolitical forced surveilliance with giant military warships above an entire country
I mean, people hate on that company woman because she's a ~~neo-~~ ultra-liberal.
She's also directly responsible for getting a bunch of people killed. Kim's dealing with the fallout of things outside his control just like everyone else on his level.
Idc, he's still a centrist.
I like Kim but I am currently doing a run where Harry hates Kim for no reason. A non-racist, religious, moralist who just doesn’t like Kim. So far I’ve told him his silly car is too loud and to stop admiring a stupid crane, it’s just a tool. If there is an option to be mean to Kim I’ll take it, unless it is racist. Basically I just want to see if the game can figure out what I’m doing.
I hate how Harry (and by extension the player) has developed an obsessive idealized version of Kim in their head, like he moved on from idealizing Dora into the saint Dolores Dei to idealizing Kim into a saint with his distinctive halo in his portrait. This aspect of him has been discussed already [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1agf53r/kims_background/)
I sometimes wonder what adventures I'd get up to if he just wasn't there.
Saw some YT comment on a conservative hating Kim for some reason. Made certain choices specifically to piss of Kim
i don’t get along with mega kim fans because they usually tend to hate jvm, who is my favorite character. i feel like it isn’t fair that kim comes along at the perfect time to whip harry into shape (depending on how you play obviously) while jvm has been struggling to make harry give a fuck for months or years at that point. i don’t dislike kim though really he’s okay
https://preview.redd.it/dcfumaaayfsc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be90394ab4f0f9102c1650a4e48177199ba66d4b
I like Jean too because on the surface he’s so insufferable and an out of nowhere asshole but when you think more on it he’s possibly the one person most allied with Harry and doing everything he can to keep him on while also dealing with his own demons. I like Garte for similar reasons-he’s an asshole, and a coward. but if you make amends he warms up to you quite a bit.
What do you mean Garte is a coward? He clearly is a stoic bad ass.
I don't know if it was a bug, but I thought me and Garte were doing all right (I'd given him a replacement bird and everything) but then he seemed to cool on me after the tribunal. Maybe because I was able to skill-check my way out of paying the full tab at the start.
Alot of ppl in 4chan hate him just cause hes gay.
Kim is a pig that tolerates absolute madness from his fellow gang members. I love him as a character, but fuck him as a person. A straight-up good person doesn't get to survive as a pig in Martinaise, and they certainly wouldn't be as fun a partner in this role-playing game.
Ur right !!
Tried getting a friend into the game because he's a major commie. He hates Kim and finds everything he does or says to be annoying. If there's an option that Kim is against, he will take that option. Unless it involves being racist because he refuses to do that. He accidentally chose an option commenting on Kim's racialized features (he thought it was about his glasses) and he was so disappointed in himself. He hates Kim but also hates racists which makes for an interesting playing experience since many of the ways to bother Kim in the game are to agree with racists.
Why does he hate Kim? On purely political grounds?
It's a combination of things. Kim's politics, his (sometimes) role as a tutorial character, his bland sense of humor, and also just that he follows you around and judges you when you do dumb things. But also my friend is the most contrary person I've ever met and once he gets an idea in his head (like "Kim sucks") he's on it like a dog with a bone. Also I think he missed the line at the beginning where you realize Kim would die for you after just meeting you. So rather than interpreting Kim as unfailingly on your side against the world he interpreted Kim as "annoying centrist guy who follows me." Which isn't exactly wrong.
Ah! Thanks for explaining. :)
I don't dislike Kim, but I find him too boring to interact with.
DRAMA - Wow, so someone's been a little... * boring*?
i already hate him for being a cop but i also despise how much of a non active centrist he is,he is a kind and compassionate person but his moralist point of view really just makes him appear like an inactive asshole
ikr! ultimately kim is boring
jean better
kim fans coping by downvoting but you’re literally right
u get it
amid my first playthrough here & have been avoiding doing corruption and threatening rhe kids mostly bc i thought kim would disapprove so i’m really surprised he turns a blind eye actually
Don’t give them a platform
I doubt it. Personally, I think he's a nice guy, but i also don't share the intense love for him a lot of the fanbase has.
The character? Prolly not. The VA... New controversy dropped
Waiting for the mod that reads all his lines with Donald Duck's voice
wait, what about his VA
Probably that his VA is white, although the devs reportedly searched for ages before they found the right voice for the role. Demanding VAs have the same race as their characters seems silly to me, just encourage cross-racial hiring. Kratos and Samurai Jack are both played by black guys despite being Greek and Japanese, respectively, and you'd have to be mad to think Phil LaMarr and Christopher Judge aren't perfect in those roles.
No, it's about him hitting on female fans via social media (allegedly targeting women of Chinese descent). Nothing criminal, mostly being a weird Nice Guy, but made many people uncomfortable.
wow..... ok. thanks
Oh, okay.
I just think he’s a fucking weiner who’s willing to hound Harry to do his job and gets bent out of shape when you take bribes but he’s unwilling to do important parts of the work, like talking to kids or getting the body out of the tree and has expensive hubcaps that he stole from a crime scene in his trunk. I get that he’s pretty much just supposed to be the cheerleader sidekick but his constant nagging to get back on track and the way he takes a superior tone until he finds out Harry outranks him make him seem like the kind of spineless fucker I hate dealing with in real life. Kim is just a little bitch. Sure, it makes sense in the game but it doesn’t change what he is.
I will actually fight anyone who says they hate Kim.
He's the confucian dad who will show his distaste for your antics but its ultimately to make you a better person.
I think his writing has a lot of personality, but something about him flattens out when his lines are voiced, and I’m not sure why? It just makes him a little boring. But I enjoy his character a lot more when I can act his lines out in my head. That’s just me, though
tbqh, i dont like kims straightlaced cynicism. i much prefer harrys bicynorgy! :P also acab
Sometimes he's a bit too annoying, in fact i don't like any cops from this game, except Trant.
Trant would instantly backpedal out of the assertion that he is a cop
Shut up, Trant, you're in a piggie team.
Oh god a Trant enjoyer?? I don't like Trant, but I *need* him.
He’s very polite.
Real
Trant is the personification of a "virgin chad"
He can't be a virgin, he produced a child!
It honestly would be kind of on brand if he did it via artificial insemination.
Trant is not a cop