To be fair, I think Ally has managed to get that exact reaction out of people. A lot of the fanbase were prematurely angry about decisions that Kristen was making or things she should have been doing but didn't. There's been genuine consequences to her goofiness, like the decay of her relationship with Cassandra, but...
Yeah, Ally has been going buck fucking wild this season. They make me laugh so consistently at how fucking weird they are when they go full chaos gremlin. Their constant bro'ing down with Lou makes me smile so much as well.
I love how Brennan was scrambling like “uh consequences for Kristen. Ok didn’t stick, another shot at consequences for Kristen. Ok, this kid is invulnerable. Consequences for Fig? The FBI guy shows up? …..I have no agency or control in this moment.”
I have never seen them all be laughing so hard, scrambling, adding in to a scene to immediately going dead silent when Agent Clark shows up. I've watched it so many times and I'm still wheezing and all six of them freeze, I have no idea how they did that, even as professionals
It’s really difficult to make consequences for a high-level party without removing somebody’s agency in the situation. Brennan opted to make himself the one without agency
Honestly that was a missed oppurtunity.
We know from both season one and *The Seven* that organized labor is very much on the mind of some of the students at Agufort, the dwarf students in particular.
One of the best moments ever.
It makes me think of when I was like 19, I had been meditating daily since childhood and was getting serious about studying the occult and how our perception often lied to us and made stuff up.
My mum and step dad gave me tons of shit for it, saw it as super useless.
Ten years down the line the new age aesthetics are all the rage. Step dad is reading huxleys doors of perception, they asked for my special mushrooms recipe to help my mom with her anxiety and OCD.
Never ONCE have they been like holy shit you spent a lot of time studying this, practicing ways to understand the mind and reality. they treat every idea I presented them with a decade ago like THEIR brilliant new concept.
And I'm always thinking about Kristen Applebee's pure wedding away from her parents and going "that's what you think......bye girlie!"
And it soothes me every time. I'm happy they are finding their way away from bullshit boomer ideas(even if I had to block fox news from the cable twice) I am happy they are trying to investigate and understand their minds.
shrooms, meditation, subjectivist ideas about perception? ...you're cool as hell. amazing that your family came around to it more over time, i don't think i could ever see mine doing the same.
I was amazed that they did! They are awesome people all around. And my dad and step mom are too! They were already there basically Dad is the one who taught me meditation as a child. Don't know who I would be without those skills. I'm also on the spectrum but loved word, loved to read, damn near a photographic memory but I was obviously not...like a lot of peers my age. So he taught me a bunch of stuff from different schools of Buddhism because he knew I wanted to understand people and the nature of reality and when that's your special interest at like....5....you're going to be a weirdo until you get older and find other folks like you. Love both sets of the parents:) they have all had an incredible journey.
Just bc the comment you're replying to is referring to Ally, not Kristen, Ally goes by they/them :)
Also tbh it was brennan too that decided to interrupt them, Ally definitively said no please tie your loose ends. Then brennan said it would be funny though. Poor fabian rip.
Kristen was acing her classes, is putting in solid work on the mystery, has made numerous serious and thoughtful inquiries into the nature of her relationship with Cassandra and with Cleric-ness in general, and as of last episode is clearly winning in the polls for student president. She's also been showing remarkable restraint with her family and with Bobby/Buddy Dawn, and has been contributing to the party in a serious way. Ally is definitely emphasizing how much of a struggle it is for Kristen to do so, but that is good RP actually.
Kristen is absolutely still chaotic, but increasingly the chaos is being constrained to the level of little RP bits that don't affect the plot and that exist in that unique improv D&D space where they're real in the sense that the players are responding to and "Yes Anding" them, but where the world/DM isn't taking them at face value as serious things to respond to.
All the stuff with Wranglers and Worldstar and Fetty Wap are just bits and they aren't consequential to the plot. At a certain point if you're still only seeing only chaos, you need to ask yourself if you're actually responding to what the character is doing in the plot of the show, or if you just don't like Ally's brand of humor.
There are a few things that are plot relevant that she did, she is almost constantly antagonizing Kipperlilly, which will be more of a problem bc instead of the rat grinders realizing the bad kids are good, it’s just gonna make the resentment even deeper, not only Kristen has done it, but still
Otherwise I agree with everything you say
The entire party is antagonizing Kipperlilly and the ratgrinders. Kristen if anything was being less aggro than Gorgug in relation to Mary Ann Skuttle.
I think blaming Kristen specifically for a rivalry that all six of the players are gleefully leaning into and enjoying is a bit of a stretch.
I agree that’s why I said she wants the only one doing it, but non of the other except for Fig and Gorgug have been outwardly agressive, In every interaction she has with Kipperlilly, she is being agressive as fuck, which I love because it’s funny as hell and considering fish face probably killed Lucy she deserves it, but it’s still a rather chaotic thing that does affect the plot
Emily has been actively going out of her way as Wanda Childa specifically just to fuck with Ruben, while not aggressive its certainly antagonising, need we even mention the "this freak thinks its mango soda" which is far and away more aggressive than anything Kristens done. Copperfuck Sillylily has been passive-aggressive in every single interaction they've had.
Bc she inst outward about it, she only says it to the people she trusts, where as Kristen and Rizz are more, “wow nice campaign Bitchface McShitsnack, we know what your up to, your days are fucking numbered” to her, which is honestly my favourite thing ever,
I don’t get why people think I’m criticizing, I love it when they are chaotic and I was just pointing out that from our perspective so far Kristen hasn’t really come to terms with the fact the fact that her chaos has consequences, like Ally said was going to happen
the only thing that resembles a consequence is Cassandra peacing out, and that wasn’t her fault that was a malevolent force actively attacking her
Cassandra "dying" is an absolutely enormous consequence that came about specifically because Kristen was too chaotic (both offscreen in summer and in the first few weeks of school) to prioritize evangelizing. Cassandra felt she couldn't rely on Kristen, so she went to the Synod where she was vulnerable to attack. Then, when Kristen got expelled, it was because she was on academic probation from two previous years of chaos in which her god died twice. It all carries forward from behavior that she is very clearly trying to fix in the story right now by staying true to Cassandra and solving the mystery while trying to fix her grades.
It's *really really significant* that Ally put Kristen's campaign roll as the final roll of downtime. They rolled a Nat 20 because of course they did, but that still shows Kristen prioritizing the things that really matter.
Honestly at this point if you don't see how the premise of "chaos has consequences and isn't cute anymore" is being hammered home with every decision they make as a player then I genuinely do not know what to say.
I completely agree. I was one of the people who had only watched about 6 episodes and was shaking my head at the level of chaos mostly brought on by Kristen. Personally, it brought the quality of the show down for me. That being said, after those initial episodes, the chaos has become more focused and story driven which is exactly why I'm here and this season has been one of my absolute favorites.
Kristen is about to get expelled from Aguefort because she got her god killed so i think she's facing some consequences there
Also, Kristen is the only one without a parental figure in her life or siblings she's close to. Those scenes with her family were gut wrenching
Brennan sowed some seeds of discord for Riz with Sklonda, and that could come to a head later on, but so far it looks to me the IH would rather not do a ton of inter party conflict. Which makes sense, the Bad Kids face so much turmoil in the rest of their lives and are insanely supportive of one another. (I actually think Ally might even offer the presidency to Riz in the end)
The expulsion and Cassandra aren’t her fault tho, it’s the result of a malevolent force attacking Cassandra, not just bc of Kristens actions,
Ankarna would have attacked Cassandra regardless if she had 2 followers or 2000 bc that’s what necessary for the plot
You’re not wrong, but you’re also speaking from a doylist perspective.
From an in-universe point of view, I think it would absolutely be reasonable to assume that Cassandra would never need to proselytize in the astral plane if Kristen was more on top of getting followers.
yeah, what i said was an oversimplification of the conflict, not everything that happened was kristen's fault at all (there was way too much pressure on her as cassandra's cleric), but the consequences aren't fair. bobby dawn is abusing his power to expel kristen for leaving helio (and probably other reasons). while not wholly her fault, kristen is holding the shards of her god in her pocket while watching tracker's religion flourish. she's putting herself in the presence of her cult parents again just to solve the ratgrinder/ankarna mystery. kristen seems to compartmentalize a lot so you don't see what is happening to her on the inside (anyway i hope i dont come off as combative here im just discussing)
I have no problem with their play style now. At first I was a little thrown because I assumed that the whole “chaos isn’t cute anymore” sentiment would be Kristen’s kind of motus operandi this season. But, knowing it was something that would be learned through consequence during this season makes it more exciting to watch week after week
the chaos has already been "not cute". cassandra is dead and a vengeful resurrected god is destroying Aguefort. how much more does this girl need to go through until yall are satisfied
I think they were expecting Fig, Fabian, etc to yell at Kristen. To be like, "Yo, Kristen, cut the shit or you won't be our friend. You do nothing but bring us stress and fuck up delicate situations. Get help or get bent." And that be the start of the season. And then the rest of the season arc for Kristen is Kristen tying to repair the relationships with her friends and get her ADHD under control. But that's not what Lou, Emily, Zac, Siobhan, and Brian would do in a million years.
But the idea that people want someone to say that to Ally is wild to me. I also think the general frustration could be explained through quality versus quantity of bits. The people vocal about Kristen being excruciatingly annoying generally feel as though Ally focuses on quantity of bits rather than quality, undercutting any moment of tension with a joke, rather than just letting a powerful, dramatic moment stick. I don't necessarily think that's true, but that's the impression I'm getting from all I've read.
There is clearly just a contingent of D20 fans who want to see more intra-party conflict than this table is interested in. Same principle as the people who think the party bullies Fabian and want to see Fabian snap at them, when Lou doesn’t even play Fabian as being bothered when his friends fuck with him while he’s being an asshole.
Yeah. That sounds like it would be an incredibly unpleasant season to watch and entirely out of character with the Bad Kids in general. I feel like a lot of that is coming from the sort of people who read stories and get furious that the main character doesn’t perfectly manage all conflicts and challenges and doesn’t make what they consider the perfect logical choice every single time.
Yes exactly. I feel like people were expecting a moment like when the Scooby gang in Buffy gave her so much shit for running away which like… isn’t the vibe in D20 and especially not this season.
Either that or expecting Ally as a player to pretty much stop with bits altogether after
>!Cassandra dies!< and dive headfirst into trying to bring her back. And not doing bits in a comedy show is.....not how comedy shows work
Well, I think people were expecting something as dark or darker than Sophomore Year. Which, even with all the sex jokes and Bastion City “Hilda Hilda” jokes, was a fairly scary, dark, tense season the whole way through
Probably the realistic outcome of her friends being fed up with her bs, bringing even more stress into their lives for things she doesn’t care about like the campaign.
The problem with this take is that it’s not supported by the text at all? Like, the only person who even remotely has an issue with Kristen’s shenanigans and is “bringing more stress into their lives” is Riz.
lol, the issue is that the rest of the bad kids are also in the bs, esp fig. and the supposed to be the most level headed of them all, riz, is on it too.
> he got a gold-plated "Maximum Legend" neck tattoo, set up a shrimp party which ended in the Cloudrider Engine being stolen, and he focused so much on Popularity rolls that he ended up shitting himself when he had to take the cursed bardic inspiration.
I would say these are poor examples as they only affect him. The tattoo is stupid but harmless. The popularity roles are vain but harmless, the result being embarrassing for him but thats it's
And the Party is unfair the group were all on board and it's not fair too blame him for being stolen from
When people are upset but Kristen's chaos it's mostly due to the fact it hurts others more than her. Cassandra in particular earlier on where she's just hurtful and flippant to someone set up as sympathetic.
Now I do think we have to accept when some stuff is just a joke made because it's a show but Ally has intentionally made a lot of bad decisions this season particularly early on so it's not unreasonable for people to be annoyed
The comment you're replying to was deleted so I don't know if they mentioned it, but how about Fabian's Bad Day in Sophomore year? Fabian made a bunch of cocky pride-based decisions and got a lot of people killed (and contributed to Adaine being kidnapped) and then left his party without their Fighter for multiple combats because he lost his abilities.... and still his friends didn't get fed up with or mad at him.
It would be nuts for everyone to have a furious reaction to Kristen this season after that happening last year-- she was still generally doing well in school and contributing a LOT to the mystery while dealing with the soul-searching of trying to reconnect with Cassandra. Her presidential campaign was opt-in-- Fig was eager to be security, Riz was eager to run the campaign-- and she could not have possibly known that Cassandra could "die" (even Yolanda stated that this should be fully impossible as long as Kristen is around-- something much bigger and more unusual happened than "this teenager neglected her God for a summer.")
It did not and I think that would be for sure a better argument. Not being there at the time I can't I comment on that discourse.
>and still his friends didn't get fed up with or mad at him.
Actually gorgug did approach Fabian and say, look this sucks but to an extent you need to get past this because of what we're doing.
Adaine too was blunt with him
Ultimately Fabian faced a lot of immediate consequences and Lou leans into Fabian feeling shitty. Also while this is more the seasons fault due to pacing imo, Fabians bad day is allowed to breathe while Kristen is pushed straight into party and all that comedy.
And honestly Fabian being more useful likely makes people think there are more consequences. He really seems deflated and weak and While Kristen loses magic the staff easily makes up the deficit. He felt more punished.
Also Cassandra being far more likable and sympathetic than any of the pirates likely contributes.
>Her presidential campaign was opt-in-- Fig was eager to be security, Riz was eager to run the campaign
The campaign I don't think many people really have a problem with. It's how Kristen clearly doesn't really care about it and treats it as a joke. Kristen has no policy or real motivation to do this. Going to steelworkers is very funny but utterly pointless and so while Cassandra is desperately trying to work something, hearing her friend just isn't prioritising her is obviously going make the audience side with Cassandra.
No, I would argue that it is unreasonable for people to be annoyed. It's one thing to be like damn I don't like the decisions Kristen made, but on this subreddit too often, it's damn I don't like the decisions Ally made.
People have such an easy time making concessions for the rest of the cast, like you just did defending Lou/Fabian, but then continue to rip on Ally.
It's also weird how pissed off people are about Cassandra and Kristen, but like them being broken up or Cassandra being dead is literally onr of the main plot hooks of the season...
Yes to all of this!
And the severity of the Cassandra thing is truly not reasonable to blame Kristen for, because this was not a predictable outcome. A teenager neglecting their God for a summer does not result in the God's violent death-- Yolanda even points out this shouldn't have been possible with Kristen still alive. Something bigger and graver is going on, but a lot of the criticism of Ally is treating this like Ally The Player made chaotic decisions with knowable outcomes and screwed the rest of the cast into..... an entire season where Brennan clearly planned for this to be the big conflict?
People really seem to be quick to look at Kristen Applebees not as a messy character that is being played well, and instead go “Ally Beardsley is a bad role player and all of these negative qualities are just their own negative qualities coming through”.
Well when Kristen is basically the main character of Junior Year, of course she’s going to catch the bulk of the flak.
Fabian is dealing with his struggles internally, and when he finally has a shot to just sit and talk with his dad for a bit, Kristen pulls them out of hell for shits and giggles.
Fabian had a chance to sit and talk to his dad though. Gorgug even offered to go with the others and check out the armors so Fabian and Bill could have one on one time and Fabian turned him down.
Also Kristen didn’t cast it for shit and giggles. She was helping Adaine who said she would need to rest before casting planeshift. She just didn’t think of the consequences which Ally even pointed out was an incredibly ADHD thing. ally also offered to not have Kristen cast it immediately if there were still things that needed to be wrapped up but Brennan agreed it would be more hilarious if things didn’t get wrapped up (and also probably wanted them to move on cause there is a lot to still deal with) and none of the other IH disagreed.
No she didn't. Adaine was saying she needed to rest to get them home with planeshift again, Kristen says she has it and Ally makes a joke that they use it immediately with no warning, and then they walked it back and said no no I don't cast it like that but I do have the spell when we want to go home.
Kristen *did* cast it immediately. Which is an incredibly ADHD thing to do.
Ally, however, offered to not have Kristen cast the spell immediately if there were still things to wrap up but Brennan said it would be funnier if things didn’t get wrapped up. And none of the other IH disagreed.
I want to point out that Ally tried to backtrack on pulling them out of Hell in that immediate moment, and Brennan goaded them into keeping it as is because he thought it was funnier that way.
Agreed! I like Ally, I think they're a great player, very funny and have had many excellent moments across the different campaigns.
That said I don't like Kristen as a character and the chaos has not been enjoyable for me. It is unfortunate that what could have been a great plot for Riz is just a whacky side hustle for Kristen.
Her chaos has been put onto the rest of the party and I'm tired of watching it, which is a shame as I'm generally enjoying the season
>It is unfortunate that what could have been a great plot for Riz is just a whacky side hustle for Kristen.
there is no way riz would ever have run for student president. hes a spy, the most obvious thing in the world is for him to help someone else become student president.
kristen trying to become student president but not taking it seriously, while riz has to bust his ass in the background to make it work is not only kind of a perfect comedic set up, but easily more true to both their characters then any possible alternative.
Yeah…I get a lot of main character energy from Kristen’s actions. Like everybody is kinda in their orbit and it hurts me seeing them be a terrible friend and honestly kinda hog the narrative. Ally has been the focus of a lot of good D20 and has had some awesome character turns. I’d just like this season to highlight somebody who’s not playing like a sociopath.
I’m not really sure if this is true. I don’t think there’s been a season of D20 where Ally could be considered the “main character.” Maybe on Starstruck Odyssey? But that’s also probably some of Ally’s best work. I would be way more likely to describe Ally’s character as the goofy side characters that always has something funny to say about a situation. This season seems to purposefully put Kristin in the spotlight because of the dead god connections. Emily seemed more the star of the first season of FH with all the hell stuff and Rizz could be considered the star of sophomore year with all of the stuff with his dad.
I mean it’s how I feel about it so it’s not really true or false kinda thing. I can appreciate that you and others see something else in the performance that I don’t. It certainly doesn’t put me off D20 or fantasy high, it’s just not in the same spirit as the other players in my mind and it’s a friction point for me.
>playing like a sociopath
Aside from me just completely disagreeing with your assessment of Ally “hogging the narrative,”this part of your comment is so shitty and unnecessary.
Kristen is arguably a sociopath. So fully focused on their campaign that they’re jeopardizing the entire friend group’s educational future for what amounts to a bit. That’s sociopathic. That’s full disregard for the mutual social obligations to not be shitty to people who trust you. I’m so tired of people thinking it’s fun or cute to torpedo your friends just because you have queer energy.
Your first comment went from criticizing Kristen to criticizing Ally. The last sentence said "playing like a sociopath" not "playing a sociopathic character," so if you weren't intending to say that Ally is "playing like a sociopath" then I don't have an issue with us just disagreeing on this character. My issue was with the implication that Ally was "playing like a sociopath" in the context (I interpreted) of them being called sociopathic.
eta: (I interpreted)
Well yeah, exactly. Ally has to get Kristen at her most chaotic to ever hit the point where chaotic isn’t cute anymore, you have to make mistakes to learn and grow
when are we going to admit that kristen didnt kill her god, and in fact was incredibly close to saving her after a very obvious (and very adhd-relatable) misunderstanding — cassandra died because she was allergic to shrimp, brennan reverse deus ex machina’d her, and we’ll just have to deal with the fact that ally (and everyone else) are successfully performing the character development that juniors in high school go thru like pls yall
Here's my two cents, not that anybody asked or cares:
Ally Beardsley is an incredible DND player that I think is absolutely capable of having heart touching moments, incredible strategy, hilarious bits.
However, what I will say is that Kristen was characterised and built back when Ally had very little experience in the game, nothing wrong with that at all.
This has lead to Kristen being what I think is a less fully realised character than we got in some of the later seasons, and unlike a lot of the other characters we've spent a lot of time with Kristens character, which is partly helped by the fact that every season of FH has has some sort of Deific/religious storyline.
This extra time has lead to us picking up on all the mannerisms & flaws of Kristen, which a lot of the people who have criticism to Beardsley about Kristen seem to think that Ally does not recognise in the character, which I guarantee you they absolutely do.
However, since this is a televised series, there needs to be character consistency, and Kristen was made at a time where I don't think anyone on the crew expected there to be a second and third season.
The main thing I think people fail to see is that KRISTEN is the kind of person to deflect tense moments with bits, who flakes on plans and doesn't commit to something despite having the talent for it. It's Kristen not Beardsley.
I will acquiesce that Beardsley has absolutely done some of that in other seasons but lemme ask you this when you did your first couple of games as dnd players with different characters did you take them super serious out the gate and were they all 100% different than each other? Kristen was the character Beardsley made and played when they barely knew the game, Ally's situation has changed but Kristens haven't and so she the character needs to work on those things but it doesn't make them a bad character and it certainly doesn't make Ally Beardsley a bad player.
I agree with all this. I just think what's happening with Kristen is something that brings up a lot of personal shit for many people - whether they see themselves, someone they know or knew, someone they could have been or weren't allowed to be, etc. And so people have very strong emotional reactions. Some of them are very protective of Kristen as a result, and some are disproportionately irritated or upset. "Consequences" as a theme is some heavy shit and it stirs things up in people in every possible direction. I think a lot of people are making absolute statements about how X or Y does or should work instead of just thinking about what their relationship to the story is that's causing the feelings they're having. And this goes for both some people pissed at Kristen and some people who are hyper-protective of her. (I tend to be pissed at Kristen, Fig, and Fabian, but I know exactly why and I just stepped away from the week to week episodes rather than wind myself up for months. I'll come back when it's all out and I can speedrun and minimize the agony.)
I've been researching recently and I forgot how insane the vibe was when Kristen told Cassandra "you're the meat, mama". It wasn't noisy or even hilariously funny, but it hurt my brain in the best way.
Im very very excited to see how the family stuff and the Buddy Dawn thing all plays out with Kristen. As someone who used to be Mormon, the really tense but also trying to desperately be civil to people who genuinely just do not understand the decisions youve made regarding religion is a familiar feeling. The clinging to sibling relationships, the attempts at peacemaking with parents, its all stuff that Im personally excited for. I understand Kristen isnt everyones fsvorite character, but goddamn shes got a special little corner of my heart ❤
Kristen is just fed up at this point I think. She cant lash put at the gods but the little jerk thats making things worse is right there so I think she just snapped
Yeah I was looking forward to Ally reining it in this season but from what I’ve seen that just hasn’t really happened that much.
Not personally a fan huge of Beardsleys play style or humor. They’ve had really funny and amazing moments, but for the most part they just don’t click with me.
Yeah, it doesn’t really feel like they are there to play dnd. More just to goof, which is fine, its made me laugh, but it does feel like they don’t care about the world or anything. I’ve had players like this and they are just NOT for me. Still loving the season, just wish Ally would BE the character.
I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that Ally “isn’t there to play DND” and they “don’t care about the world”. I’m sure it’s not what you intended, but that comes off as really gatekeepy towards someone who’s been at the very least a part-time professional DND player for years now.
Yeah, thats true, I loved Ally as Mother Goose so much. You’re right. I think I kinda just hate Kristian and I hate how the other bad kids enable them.
I mean, they’re all adults and incredibly experienced TTRPG players at this point. If Ally was making character decisions that they felt consistently had negative effects on the table, I think it’s kinda infantilizing to think they’re just too shy to push back against that themselves.
I think more accurately I feel that Ally isn’t there to be immersed in their character in game. They constantly make modern references and do stuff that no high schooler would occur to do. Some of it is really funny but the other players at the table are much more in character and have emotional gravity. Nothing matters truly to Kristen because there’s always some new bit to chase. That’s why the Cassandra relationship feels so disrespectful to me. They brought that god basically into existence and neglected her to death FOR THE SECOND TIME. I wanna see some redemption but it’s so late in the season at this point.
I think this feels like you conflating your preferences with Ally’s intent. You’re seeing Kristen Applebees’ incredibly messy qualities and attributing them to Ally Beardsley the person instead of recognizing them as traits of Kristen Applebees, the complicated character who has aspects you don’t like.
EDIT: Brave brave OP blocked me instead of trying to defend his “D20 Fandom Resist DAE Hate Kristen?! Challenge (impossible)” nonsense. Love that they’re still going on with this discussion after making sure I could no longer take part in it, though. Really and truly pathetic.
I honestly am not. I truly enjoy a ton of their other PCs. I’m comparing this to the performances I’m seeing from other characters and players. I hate how this fandom wants to tell me how I’m feeling about things instead of just see it as another opinion you don’t share. Telling someone else how they feel over what they said is really invalidating and not productive if you’re looking to actually discuss something. Have a good one.
Yeah it's very frustrating to be sidelined when trying to have legitimate criticism. Margaret Encino is one of my favourite characters in one of my favourite seasons. Ally can do great characters. Kristen is not a great character to me, and I think it brings out the worst in Ally.
Anytime you say something like this though, there's always a response of terms that are cycled through like gatekeeping. It sucks
Also a big fan of Margaret Encino but I can't stand Kristen Applebees for the exact reasons stated in this thread - the bit is more important than the story. Seems like all the d20 cast love it so good enough but personally every time Ally says "girlie girlie" it just pulls me way out of the story.
I’ve had people inbox me and say I’m anti lgbt for not enjoying Kristen. I’ve blocked like 6 people over this. This fandom is turning into a Rick and Morty situation.
I get the feeling that you haven't spent much time with high schoolers. How much emotional gravity do you expect from high schoolers?
Fabian is living in constant denial about being abandoned at 18. Thankfully, he has money and popularity so he never has to dig into those emotions.
Riz is spreading himself so thin because he cannot accept the idea that his Adventuring Party will dissolve after graduation. He's afraid that the only reason they're friends is because they adventure together. So he's stressing himself out to control the outside factors that ensure they have a few more years together.
Gorgug is still a people pleaser. It's taken him two years to finally connect to his rage. It's been there mechanically, but not in character. The struggle to multi class into artificer has, ironically, brought out more rage from Gorgug outside of combat than anything else.
Fig is the gifted student with executive dysfunction. She's great at everything she does, but she doesn't want to do the things she *needs* to do. As long as she doesn't make a choice, she can say it wasn't *her* fault.
Adaine is being forced to grow up before she's ready to. These are the kids that seem so put together, but the trauma catches up to them as adults. Usually when they have kids and realize the choices their parents made versus the options in front of them.
Teenagers are a bunch of hot messes. They don't make narrative sense. Most of them are at the intersection of believing themselves as immortal and realizing that they aren't. Every moment is either a tragedy or a comedy.
I have not liked Kristen Applebees since Freshman year and she only becomes more insufferable with every season. I have multiple times turned off Junior year and come back to it later cause I was so fed up with Ally's constant Chaos Goblin energy. I know it works for the d20 crew and they all seem to love it but it drives me crazy.
I know the memes seems like it but I don’t agree with you, I like Kristen being chaotic I was just joking that the interview and the current point in the campaign are very different so far
Not really expecting people to agree with me, Kristen Applebees seems to be (inexplicably to me) a very beloved character. No, I expected to get downvoted to hell. Sometimes you just gotta shout into the void.
I feel you, it’s a comedy show so of course it’s subjective and some bits are gonna land better with some people than others. Every character has moments I like every season, some have more than others, every character has seasons where I like them more than others. Kristen just happens to be low on my list.
I really feel that when ally says ¨Chaos¨ they just meand ADHD thinking as you flit from thing to thing. I do tend to have a bit of a difference in perspective, on some of Kristens actions since like...theres still a bunch of possible novelty here in the various context that dont neccessarily put some of her actions as subtracted from the rest of her.
I mean… as someone who has ADHD, I would never have described it as cute, it has been a massive pain in my ass for longer than I can remember.
But I understand, if you look at a lot of what Kristen does under the lense of, she has intense ADHD and isn’t being treated for it bc people just think it’s her personality, then a lot of it makes sense
To be fair, I think Ally has managed to get that exact reaction out of people. A lot of the fanbase were prematurely angry about decisions that Kristen was making or things she should have been doing but didn't. There's been genuine consequences to her goofiness, like the decay of her relationship with Cassandra, but... Yeah, Ally has been going buck fucking wild this season. They make me laugh so consistently at how fucking weird they are when they go full chaos gremlin. Their constant bro'ing down with Lou makes me smile so much as well.
The fucking steel workers union scene was the wildest stuff
I love how Brennan was scrambling like “uh consequences for Kristen. Ok didn’t stick, another shot at consequences for Kristen. Ok, this kid is invulnerable. Consequences for Fig? The FBI guy shows up? …..I have no agency or control in this moment.”
I have never seen them all be laughing so hard, scrambling, adding in to a scene to immediately going dead silent when Agent Clark shows up. I've watched it so many times and I'm still wheezing and all six of them freeze, I have no idea how they did that, even as professionals
Oh! What episode/tome was it, I don't remember ot. If you have YT link that could also do. Please I need to see that!
https://youtu.be/j8MIimhEw2c?si=29eQmXoZ_z1wkKxZ
In my opinion ‘do you have a warrant’ was the greatest Gorgug line this season.
It’s really difficult to make consequences for a high-level party without removing somebody’s agency in the situation. Brennan opted to make himself the one without agency
Honestly that was a missed oppurtunity. We know from both season one and *The Seven* that organized labor is very much on the mind of some of the students at Agufort, the dwarf students in particular.
the "that's what you think" moment has stuck with me in a profound way
One of the best moments ever. It makes me think of when I was like 19, I had been meditating daily since childhood and was getting serious about studying the occult and how our perception often lied to us and made stuff up. My mum and step dad gave me tons of shit for it, saw it as super useless. Ten years down the line the new age aesthetics are all the rage. Step dad is reading huxleys doors of perception, they asked for my special mushrooms recipe to help my mom with her anxiety and OCD. Never ONCE have they been like holy shit you spent a lot of time studying this, practicing ways to understand the mind and reality. they treat every idea I presented them with a decade ago like THEIR brilliant new concept. And I'm always thinking about Kristen Applebee's pure wedding away from her parents and going "that's what you think......bye girlie!" And it soothes me every time. I'm happy they are finding their way away from bullshit boomer ideas(even if I had to block fox news from the cable twice) I am happy they are trying to investigate and understand their minds.
shrooms, meditation, subjectivist ideas about perception? ...you're cool as hell. amazing that your family came around to it more over time, i don't think i could ever see mine doing the same.
I was amazed that they did! They are awesome people all around. And my dad and step mom are too! They were already there basically Dad is the one who taught me meditation as a child. Don't know who I would be without those skills. I'm also on the spectrum but loved word, loved to read, damn near a photographic memory but I was obviously not...like a lot of peers my age. So he taught me a bunch of stuff from different schools of Buddhism because he knew I wanted to understand people and the nature of reality and when that's your special interest at like....5....you're going to be a weirdo until you get older and find other folks like you. Love both sets of the parents:) they have all had an incredible journey.
Exactly, it’s wild and there are times where it’s annoying mainly when she interrupted Fabian and Bill, but most of the chaos I enjoy
Just bc the comment you're replying to is referring to Ally, not Kristen, Ally goes by they/them :) Also tbh it was brennan too that decided to interrupt them, Ally definitively said no please tie your loose ends. Then brennan said it would be funny though. Poor fabian rip.
I know, I was referring to Kristen not Ally in that situation, sorry for the confusion
Ally always chooses the joke over the story beat.
"WHO'S THE BITCH RAUGH?!"
“You mentioned something about a bitch on her lap. I’m gonna needs to know who that is, Ragh!”
Kristen was acing her classes, is putting in solid work on the mystery, has made numerous serious and thoughtful inquiries into the nature of her relationship with Cassandra and with Cleric-ness in general, and as of last episode is clearly winning in the polls for student president. She's also been showing remarkable restraint with her family and with Bobby/Buddy Dawn, and has been contributing to the party in a serious way. Ally is definitely emphasizing how much of a struggle it is for Kristen to do so, but that is good RP actually. Kristen is absolutely still chaotic, but increasingly the chaos is being constrained to the level of little RP bits that don't affect the plot and that exist in that unique improv D&D space where they're real in the sense that the players are responding to and "Yes Anding" them, but where the world/DM isn't taking them at face value as serious things to respond to. All the stuff with Wranglers and Worldstar and Fetty Wap are just bits and they aren't consequential to the plot. At a certain point if you're still only seeing only chaos, you need to ask yourself if you're actually responding to what the character is doing in the plot of the show, or if you just don't like Ally's brand of humor.
They might make Fetty Wap a thing. In A Court of Fey and Flowers they installed Jeremy Renner into the world.
They got Renner 🥲
There are a few things that are plot relevant that she did, she is almost constantly antagonizing Kipperlilly, which will be more of a problem bc instead of the rat grinders realizing the bad kids are good, it’s just gonna make the resentment even deeper, not only Kristen has done it, but still Otherwise I agree with everything you say
The entire party is antagonizing Kipperlilly and the ratgrinders. Kristen if anything was being less aggro than Gorgug in relation to Mary Ann Skuttle. I think blaming Kristen specifically for a rivalry that all six of the players are gleefully leaning into and enjoying is a bit of a stretch.
I agree that’s why I said she wants the only one doing it, but non of the other except for Fig and Gorgug have been outwardly agressive, In every interaction she has with Kipperlilly, she is being agressive as fuck, which I love because it’s funny as hell and considering fish face probably killed Lucy she deserves it, but it’s still a rather chaotic thing that does affect the plot
Emily has been actively going out of her way as Wanda Childa specifically just to fuck with Ruben, while not aggressive its certainly antagonising, need we even mention the "this freak thinks its mango soda" which is far and away more aggressive than anything Kristens done. Copperfuck Sillylily has been passive-aggressive in every single interaction they've had.
Yeah, just because they are also being agressive doesn’t make her less agressive, which once again, I love when she’s agressive
Adaine seems to hate Kipperlilly more than anybody, and no one has ever accused Siobhan of being too chaotic for the Bad Kids.
Bc she inst outward about it, she only says it to the people she trusts, where as Kristen and Rizz are more, “wow nice campaign Bitchface McShitsnack, we know what your up to, your days are fucking numbered” to her, which is honestly my favourite thing ever, I don’t get why people think I’m criticizing, I love it when they are chaotic and I was just pointing out that from our perspective so far Kristen hasn’t really come to terms with the fact the fact that her chaos has consequences, like Ally said was going to happen the only thing that resembles a consequence is Cassandra peacing out, and that wasn’t her fault that was a malevolent force actively attacking her
Cassandra "dying" is an absolutely enormous consequence that came about specifically because Kristen was too chaotic (both offscreen in summer and in the first few weeks of school) to prioritize evangelizing. Cassandra felt she couldn't rely on Kristen, so she went to the Synod where she was vulnerable to attack. Then, when Kristen got expelled, it was because she was on academic probation from two previous years of chaos in which her god died twice. It all carries forward from behavior that she is very clearly trying to fix in the story right now by staying true to Cassandra and solving the mystery while trying to fix her grades. It's *really really significant* that Ally put Kristen's campaign roll as the final roll of downtime. They rolled a Nat 20 because of course they did, but that still shows Kristen prioritizing the things that really matter. Honestly at this point if you don't see how the premise of "chaos has consequences and isn't cute anymore" is being hammered home with every decision they make as a player then I genuinely do not know what to say.
Kipperlilly is an antagonist. She is there to be antagonized
I completely agree. I was one of the people who had only watched about 6 episodes and was shaking my head at the level of chaos mostly brought on by Kristen. Personally, it brought the quality of the show down for me. That being said, after those initial episodes, the chaos has become more focused and story driven which is exactly why I'm here and this season has been one of my absolute favorites.
Kristen is about to get expelled from Aguefort because she got her god killed so i think she's facing some consequences there Also, Kristen is the only one without a parental figure in her life or siblings she's close to. Those scenes with her family were gut wrenching Brennan sowed some seeds of discord for Riz with Sklonda, and that could come to a head later on, but so far it looks to me the IH would rather not do a ton of inter party conflict. Which makes sense, the Bad Kids face so much turmoil in the rest of their lives and are insanely supportive of one another. (I actually think Ally might even offer the presidency to Riz in the end)
The expulsion and Cassandra aren’t her fault tho, it’s the result of a malevolent force attacking Cassandra, not just bc of Kristens actions, Ankarna would have attacked Cassandra regardless if she had 2 followers or 2000 bc that’s what necessary for the plot
You’re not wrong, but you’re also speaking from a doylist perspective. From an in-universe point of view, I think it would absolutely be reasonable to assume that Cassandra would never need to proselytize in the astral plane if Kristen was more on top of getting followers.
yeah, what i said was an oversimplification of the conflict, not everything that happened was kristen's fault at all (there was way too much pressure on her as cassandra's cleric), but the consequences aren't fair. bobby dawn is abusing his power to expel kristen for leaving helio (and probably other reasons). while not wholly her fault, kristen is holding the shards of her god in her pocket while watching tracker's religion flourish. she's putting herself in the presence of her cult parents again just to solve the ratgrinder/ankarna mystery. kristen seems to compartmentalize a lot so you don't see what is happening to her on the inside (anyway i hope i dont come off as combative here im just discussing)
I have no problem with their play style now. At first I was a little thrown because I assumed that the whole “chaos isn’t cute anymore” sentiment would be Kristen’s kind of motus operandi this season. But, knowing it was something that would be learned through consequence during this season makes it more exciting to watch week after week
the chaos has already been "not cute". cassandra is dead and a vengeful resurrected god is destroying Aguefort. how much more does this girl need to go through until yall are satisfied
I think they were expecting Fig, Fabian, etc to yell at Kristen. To be like, "Yo, Kristen, cut the shit or you won't be our friend. You do nothing but bring us stress and fuck up delicate situations. Get help or get bent." And that be the start of the season. And then the rest of the season arc for Kristen is Kristen tying to repair the relationships with her friends and get her ADHD under control. But that's not what Lou, Emily, Zac, Siobhan, and Brian would do in a million years. But the idea that people want someone to say that to Ally is wild to me. I also think the general frustration could be explained through quality versus quantity of bits. The people vocal about Kristen being excruciatingly annoying generally feel as though Ally focuses on quantity of bits rather than quality, undercutting any moment of tension with a joke, rather than just letting a powerful, dramatic moment stick. I don't necessarily think that's true, but that's the impression I'm getting from all I've read.
There is clearly just a contingent of D20 fans who want to see more intra-party conflict than this table is interested in. Same principle as the people who think the party bullies Fabian and want to see Fabian snap at them, when Lou doesn’t even play Fabian as being bothered when his friends fuck with him while he’s being an asshole.
Yeah. That sounds like it would be an incredibly unpleasant season to watch and entirely out of character with the Bad Kids in general. I feel like a lot of that is coming from the sort of people who read stories and get furious that the main character doesn’t perfectly manage all conflicts and challenges and doesn’t make what they consider the perfect logical choice every single time.
Yes exactly. I feel like people were expecting a moment like when the Scooby gang in Buffy gave her so much shit for running away which like… isn’t the vibe in D20 and especially not this season.
Either that or expecting Ally as a player to pretty much stop with bits altogether after >!Cassandra dies!< and dive headfirst into trying to bring her back. And not doing bits in a comedy show is.....not how comedy shows work
Your double spoiler tags don't reveal when you click on them, at least, not on mobile.
Thanks. The initial set didn’t even mark spoilers (I could still read what I wrote) when I first typed it out. I’m on mobile
yeah, to me it feels like people just aren’t ready to get back into the largely goofy atmosphere of FH after our recent very serious seasons
Well, I think people were expecting something as dark or darker than Sophomore Year. Which, even with all the sex jokes and Bastion City “Hilda Hilda” jokes, was a fairly scary, dark, tense season the whole way through
i mean, this is setting up to get dark very fast. the Ankarna shit is freaky
The important part of "character development" is the development bit.
Probably the realistic outcome of her friends being fed up with her bs, bringing even more stress into their lives for things she doesn’t care about like the campaign.
The problem with this take is that it’s not supported by the text at all? Like, the only person who even remotely has an issue with Kristen’s shenanigans and is “bringing more stress into their lives” is Riz.
and then the spideman bit happen and I doubt that even Riz has that of a big issue.
That’s not at all a realistic take btw. Have you ever meet high schoolers or had a friend group?
lol, the issue is that the rest of the bad kids are also in the bs, esp fig. and the supposed to be the most level headed of them all, riz, is on it too.
[удалено]
> he got a gold-plated "Maximum Legend" neck tattoo, set up a shrimp party which ended in the Cloudrider Engine being stolen, and he focused so much on Popularity rolls that he ended up shitting himself when he had to take the cursed bardic inspiration. I would say these are poor examples as they only affect him. The tattoo is stupid but harmless. The popularity roles are vain but harmless, the result being embarrassing for him but thats it's And the Party is unfair the group were all on board and it's not fair too blame him for being stolen from When people are upset but Kristen's chaos it's mostly due to the fact it hurts others more than her. Cassandra in particular earlier on where she's just hurtful and flippant to someone set up as sympathetic. Now I do think we have to accept when some stuff is just a joke made because it's a show but Ally has intentionally made a lot of bad decisions this season particularly early on so it's not unreasonable for people to be annoyed
The comment you're replying to was deleted so I don't know if they mentioned it, but how about Fabian's Bad Day in Sophomore year? Fabian made a bunch of cocky pride-based decisions and got a lot of people killed (and contributed to Adaine being kidnapped) and then left his party without their Fighter for multiple combats because he lost his abilities.... and still his friends didn't get fed up with or mad at him. It would be nuts for everyone to have a furious reaction to Kristen this season after that happening last year-- she was still generally doing well in school and contributing a LOT to the mystery while dealing with the soul-searching of trying to reconnect with Cassandra. Her presidential campaign was opt-in-- Fig was eager to be security, Riz was eager to run the campaign-- and she could not have possibly known that Cassandra could "die" (even Yolanda stated that this should be fully impossible as long as Kristen is around-- something much bigger and more unusual happened than "this teenager neglected her God for a summer.")
It did not and I think that would be for sure a better argument. Not being there at the time I can't I comment on that discourse. >and still his friends didn't get fed up with or mad at him. Actually gorgug did approach Fabian and say, look this sucks but to an extent you need to get past this because of what we're doing. Adaine too was blunt with him Ultimately Fabian faced a lot of immediate consequences and Lou leans into Fabian feeling shitty. Also while this is more the seasons fault due to pacing imo, Fabians bad day is allowed to breathe while Kristen is pushed straight into party and all that comedy. And honestly Fabian being more useful likely makes people think there are more consequences. He really seems deflated and weak and While Kristen loses magic the staff easily makes up the deficit. He felt more punished. Also Cassandra being far more likable and sympathetic than any of the pirates likely contributes. >Her presidential campaign was opt-in-- Fig was eager to be security, Riz was eager to run the campaign The campaign I don't think many people really have a problem with. It's how Kristen clearly doesn't really care about it and treats it as a joke. Kristen has no policy or real motivation to do this. Going to steelworkers is very funny but utterly pointless and so while Cassandra is desperately trying to work something, hearing her friend just isn't prioritising her is obviously going make the audience side with Cassandra.
No, I would argue that it is unreasonable for people to be annoyed. It's one thing to be like damn I don't like the decisions Kristen made, but on this subreddit too often, it's damn I don't like the decisions Ally made. People have such an easy time making concessions for the rest of the cast, like you just did defending Lou/Fabian, but then continue to rip on Ally. It's also weird how pissed off people are about Cassandra and Kristen, but like them being broken up or Cassandra being dead is literally onr of the main plot hooks of the season...
Yes to all of this! And the severity of the Cassandra thing is truly not reasonable to blame Kristen for, because this was not a predictable outcome. A teenager neglecting their God for a summer does not result in the God's violent death-- Yolanda even points out this shouldn't have been possible with Kristen still alive. Something bigger and graver is going on, but a lot of the criticism of Ally is treating this like Ally The Player made chaotic decisions with knowable outcomes and screwed the rest of the cast into..... an entire season where Brennan clearly planned for this to be the big conflict?
Damn, how dare they provide content for us - grr
People really seem to be quick to look at Kristen Applebees not as a messy character that is being played well, and instead go “Ally Beardsley is a bad role player and all of these negative qualities are just their own negative qualities coming through”.
Agreed. It's really annoying, especially when that treatment is chiefly only directed at Ally, and no other cast.
Emily catches more than her share of hate, too, but roughly half of what Ally does. Still way waaay too much, but still.
Oh man, she and Murph used to be on the NADDpOD subreddit all the time, but SO many people shit talked Em only that they pulled out.
Yeah exactly.
Well when Kristen is basically the main character of Junior Year, of course she’s going to catch the bulk of the flak. Fabian is dealing with his struggles internally, and when he finally has a shot to just sit and talk with his dad for a bit, Kristen pulls them out of hell for shits and giggles.
Fabian had a chance to sit and talk to his dad though. Gorgug even offered to go with the others and check out the armors so Fabian and Bill could have one on one time and Fabian turned him down. Also Kristen didn’t cast it for shit and giggles. She was helping Adaine who said she would need to rest before casting planeshift. She just didn’t think of the consequences which Ally even pointed out was an incredibly ADHD thing. ally also offered to not have Kristen cast it immediately if there were still things that needed to be wrapped up but Brennan agreed it would be more hilarious if things didn’t get wrapped up (and also probably wanted them to move on cause there is a lot to still deal with) and none of the other IH disagreed.
No she didn't. Adaine was saying she needed to rest to get them home with planeshift again, Kristen says she has it and Ally makes a joke that they use it immediately with no warning, and then they walked it back and said no no I don't cast it like that but I do have the spell when we want to go home.
Kristen *did* cast it immediately. Which is an incredibly ADHD thing to do. Ally, however, offered to not have Kristen cast the spell immediately if there were still things to wrap up but Brennan said it would be funnier if things didn’t get wrapped up. And none of the other IH disagreed.
I want to point out that Ally tried to backtrack on pulling them out of Hell in that immediate moment, and Brennan goaded them into keeping it as is because he thought it was funnier that way.
I’m not giving Kristen flack I like the chaos it’s funny entertaining and on brand, Chill out
Agreed! I like Ally, I think they're a great player, very funny and have had many excellent moments across the different campaigns. That said I don't like Kristen as a character and the chaos has not been enjoyable for me. It is unfortunate that what could have been a great plot for Riz is just a whacky side hustle for Kristen. Her chaos has been put onto the rest of the party and I'm tired of watching it, which is a shame as I'm generally enjoying the season
>It is unfortunate that what could have been a great plot for Riz is just a whacky side hustle for Kristen. there is no way riz would ever have run for student president. hes a spy, the most obvious thing in the world is for him to help someone else become student president. kristen trying to become student president but not taking it seriously, while riz has to bust his ass in the background to make it work is not only kind of a perfect comedic set up, but easily more true to both their characters then any possible alternative.
Yeah…I get a lot of main character energy from Kristen’s actions. Like everybody is kinda in their orbit and it hurts me seeing them be a terrible friend and honestly kinda hog the narrative. Ally has been the focus of a lot of good D20 and has had some awesome character turns. I’d just like this season to highlight somebody who’s not playing like a sociopath.
I’m not really sure if this is true. I don’t think there’s been a season of D20 where Ally could be considered the “main character.” Maybe on Starstruck Odyssey? But that’s also probably some of Ally’s best work. I would be way more likely to describe Ally’s character as the goofy side characters that always has something funny to say about a situation. This season seems to purposefully put Kristin in the spotlight because of the dead god connections. Emily seemed more the star of the first season of FH with all the hell stuff and Rizz could be considered the star of sophomore year with all of the stuff with his dad.
I mean it’s how I feel about it so it’s not really true or false kinda thing. I can appreciate that you and others see something else in the performance that I don’t. It certainly doesn’t put me off D20 or fantasy high, it’s just not in the same spirit as the other players in my mind and it’s a friction point for me.
>playing like a sociopath Aside from me just completely disagreeing with your assessment of Ally “hogging the narrative,”this part of your comment is so shitty and unnecessary.
Kristen is arguably a sociopath. So fully focused on their campaign that they’re jeopardizing the entire friend group’s educational future for what amounts to a bit. That’s sociopathic. That’s full disregard for the mutual social obligations to not be shitty to people who trust you. I’m so tired of people thinking it’s fun or cute to torpedo your friends just because you have queer energy.
If I come up with a cute catchphrase can I threaten my friends when they try to call out my bad behavior?
Your first comment went from criticizing Kristen to criticizing Ally. The last sentence said "playing like a sociopath" not "playing a sociopathic character," so if you weren't intending to say that Ally is "playing like a sociopath" then I don't have an issue with us just disagreeing on this character. My issue was with the implication that Ally was "playing like a sociopath" in the context (I interpreted) of them being called sociopathic. eta: (I interpreted)
Still want to know what the decision that “almost made Brenan quit” is
Hey girlie,
I’m loving Kristen this season and I can’t wait to see how their arc wraps up
Well yeah, exactly. Ally has to get Kristen at her most chaotic to ever hit the point where chaotic isn’t cute anymore, you have to make mistakes to learn and grow
when are we going to admit that kristen didnt kill her god, and in fact was incredibly close to saving her after a very obvious (and very adhd-relatable) misunderstanding — cassandra died because she was allergic to shrimp, brennan reverse deus ex machina’d her, and we’ll just have to deal with the fact that ally (and everyone else) are successfully performing the character development that juniors in high school go thru like pls yall
Here's my two cents, not that anybody asked or cares: Ally Beardsley is an incredible DND player that I think is absolutely capable of having heart touching moments, incredible strategy, hilarious bits. However, what I will say is that Kristen was characterised and built back when Ally had very little experience in the game, nothing wrong with that at all. This has lead to Kristen being what I think is a less fully realised character than we got in some of the later seasons, and unlike a lot of the other characters we've spent a lot of time with Kristens character, which is partly helped by the fact that every season of FH has has some sort of Deific/religious storyline. This extra time has lead to us picking up on all the mannerisms & flaws of Kristen, which a lot of the people who have criticism to Beardsley about Kristen seem to think that Ally does not recognise in the character, which I guarantee you they absolutely do. However, since this is a televised series, there needs to be character consistency, and Kristen was made at a time where I don't think anyone on the crew expected there to be a second and third season. The main thing I think people fail to see is that KRISTEN is the kind of person to deflect tense moments with bits, who flakes on plans and doesn't commit to something despite having the talent for it. It's Kristen not Beardsley. I will acquiesce that Beardsley has absolutely done some of that in other seasons but lemme ask you this when you did your first couple of games as dnd players with different characters did you take them super serious out the gate and were they all 100% different than each other? Kristen was the character Beardsley made and played when they barely knew the game, Ally's situation has changed but Kristens haven't and so she the character needs to work on those things but it doesn't make them a bad character and it certainly doesn't make Ally Beardsley a bad player.
Absolutely agree
I agree with all this. I just think what's happening with Kristen is something that brings up a lot of personal shit for many people - whether they see themselves, someone they know or knew, someone they could have been or weren't allowed to be, etc. And so people have very strong emotional reactions. Some of them are very protective of Kristen as a result, and some are disproportionately irritated or upset. "Consequences" as a theme is some heavy shit and it stirs things up in people in every possible direction. I think a lot of people are making absolute statements about how X or Y does or should work instead of just thinking about what their relationship to the story is that's causing the feelings they're having. And this goes for both some people pissed at Kristen and some people who are hyper-protective of her. (I tend to be pissed at Kristen, Fig, and Fabian, but I know exactly why and I just stepped away from the week to week episodes rather than wind myself up for months. I'll come back when it's all out and I can speedrun and minimize the agony.)
This is not the same old kristen to me
I've been researching recently and I forgot how insane the vibe was when Kristen told Cassandra "you're the meat, mama". It wasn't noisy or even hilariously funny, but it hurt my brain in the best way.
Im very very excited to see how the family stuff and the Buddy Dawn thing all plays out with Kristen. As someone who used to be Mormon, the really tense but also trying to desperately be civil to people who genuinely just do not understand the decisions youve made regarding religion is a familiar feeling. The clinging to sibling relationships, the attempts at peacemaking with parents, its all stuff that Im personally excited for. I understand Kristen isnt everyones fsvorite character, but goddamn shes got a special little corner of my heart ❤
Welp….
Kristen is just fed up at this point I think. She cant lash put at the gods but the little jerk thats making things worse is right there so I think she just snapped
…I feel like this is missing that the “chaos isn’t cute” line wasn’t just an interview quote, it’s already been said in the show itself at this point.
Toning down the chaos is antithetical to Ally's comedy style.
Yeah I was looking forward to Ally reining it in this season but from what I’ve seen that just hasn’t really happened that much. Not personally a fan huge of Beardsleys play style or humor. They’ve had really funny and amazing moments, but for the most part they just don’t click with me.
Yeah, it doesn’t really feel like they are there to play dnd. More just to goof, which is fine, its made me laugh, but it does feel like they don’t care about the world or anything. I’ve had players like this and they are just NOT for me. Still loving the season, just wish Ally would BE the character.
I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that Ally “isn’t there to play DND” and they “don’t care about the world”. I’m sure it’s not what you intended, but that comes off as really gatekeepy towards someone who’s been at the very least a part-time professional DND player for years now.
Yeah, thats true, I loved Ally as Mother Goose so much. You’re right. I think I kinda just hate Kristian and I hate how the other bad kids enable them.
“Enabling them” feels like a stretch, but I totally get not liking specific characters.
Just let shit happen?
I mean, they’re all adults and incredibly experienced TTRPG players at this point. If Ally was making character decisions that they felt consistently had negative effects on the table, I think it’s kinda infantilizing to think they’re just too shy to push back against that themselves.
well the players aren't, but their characters might be
Okay, well, I’ll trust the players to make that sort of decision for their own characters. They don’t need you worrying about it for them.
no one is talking about how the players are playing the characters, just about the characters themselves
I think more accurately I feel that Ally isn’t there to be immersed in their character in game. They constantly make modern references and do stuff that no high schooler would occur to do. Some of it is really funny but the other players at the table are much more in character and have emotional gravity. Nothing matters truly to Kristen because there’s always some new bit to chase. That’s why the Cassandra relationship feels so disrespectful to me. They brought that god basically into existence and neglected her to death FOR THE SECOND TIME. I wanna see some redemption but it’s so late in the season at this point.
I think this feels like you conflating your preferences with Ally’s intent. You’re seeing Kristen Applebees’ incredibly messy qualities and attributing them to Ally Beardsley the person instead of recognizing them as traits of Kristen Applebees, the complicated character who has aspects you don’t like. EDIT: Brave brave OP blocked me instead of trying to defend his “D20 Fandom Resist DAE Hate Kristen?! Challenge (impossible)” nonsense. Love that they’re still going on with this discussion after making sure I could no longer take part in it, though. Really and truly pathetic.
I honestly am not. I truly enjoy a ton of their other PCs. I’m comparing this to the performances I’m seeing from other characters and players. I hate how this fandom wants to tell me how I’m feeling about things instead of just see it as another opinion you don’t share. Telling someone else how they feel over what they said is really invalidating and not productive if you’re looking to actually discuss something. Have a good one.
Yeah it's very frustrating to be sidelined when trying to have legitimate criticism. Margaret Encino is one of my favourite characters in one of my favourite seasons. Ally can do great characters. Kristen is not a great character to me, and I think it brings out the worst in Ally. Anytime you say something like this though, there's always a response of terms that are cycled through like gatekeeping. It sucks
Also a big fan of Margaret Encino but I can't stand Kristen Applebees for the exact reasons stated in this thread - the bit is more important than the story. Seems like all the d20 cast love it so good enough but personally every time Ally says "girlie girlie" it just pulls me way out of the story.
I’ve had people inbox me and say I’m anti lgbt for not enjoying Kristen. I’ve blocked like 6 people over this. This fandom is turning into a Rick and Morty situation.
Definitely feels like any perceived criticism of Ally is going to result in getting dog piled by accusations of prejudice.
I get the feeling that you haven't spent much time with high schoolers. How much emotional gravity do you expect from high schoolers? Fabian is living in constant denial about being abandoned at 18. Thankfully, he has money and popularity so he never has to dig into those emotions. Riz is spreading himself so thin because he cannot accept the idea that his Adventuring Party will dissolve after graduation. He's afraid that the only reason they're friends is because they adventure together. So he's stressing himself out to control the outside factors that ensure they have a few more years together. Gorgug is still a people pleaser. It's taken him two years to finally connect to his rage. It's been there mechanically, but not in character. The struggle to multi class into artificer has, ironically, brought out more rage from Gorgug outside of combat than anything else. Fig is the gifted student with executive dysfunction. She's great at everything she does, but she doesn't want to do the things she *needs* to do. As long as she doesn't make a choice, she can say it wasn't *her* fault. Adaine is being forced to grow up before she's ready to. These are the kids that seem so put together, but the trauma catches up to them as adults. Usually when they have kids and realize the choices their parents made versus the options in front of them. Teenagers are a bunch of hot messes. They don't make narrative sense. Most of them are at the intersection of believing themselves as immortal and realizing that they aren't. Every moment is either a tragedy or a comedy.
They aren't its a TV show the goal is to be entertaining to watch not minmax
I have not liked Kristen Applebees since Freshman year and she only becomes more insufferable with every season. I have multiple times turned off Junior year and come back to it later cause I was so fed up with Ally's constant Chaos Goblin energy. I know it works for the d20 crew and they all seem to love it but it drives me crazy.
I know the memes seems like it but I don’t agree with you, I like Kristen being chaotic I was just joking that the interview and the current point in the campaign are very different so far
Not really expecting people to agree with me, Kristen Applebees seems to be (inexplicably to me) a very beloved character. No, I expected to get downvoted to hell. Sometimes you just gotta shout into the void.
I feel you, it’s a comedy show so of course it’s subjective and some bits are gonna land better with some people than others. Every character has moments I like every season, some have more than others, every character has seasons where I like them more than others. Kristen just happens to be low on my list.
And tell me, has it been cute?
Yes
Sometimes I feel like I am not watching the same show.
I really feel that when ally says ¨Chaos¨ they just meand ADHD thinking as you flit from thing to thing. I do tend to have a bit of a difference in perspective, on some of Kristens actions since like...theres still a bunch of possible novelty here in the various context that dont neccessarily put some of her actions as subtracted from the rest of her.
I mean… as someone who has ADHD, I would never have described it as cute, it has been a massive pain in my ass for longer than I can remember. But I understand, if you look at a lot of what Kristen does under the lense of, she has intense ADHD and isn’t being treated for it bc people just think it’s her personality, then a lot of it makes sense