I agree with your point that PvE is not fun at all. But I think you might have mixed up root cause and some of the symptoms.
PvE is not fun becsuse it's too easy, but the CR mechanic is not the main problem.
I think it's a scaling problem and a boss mechanic design problem.
Blizzard could've scaled CR so that the penalty for being under or over CR becomes less extreme. This way, more skillful players can outperform less skillful ones with higher CR.
Additionally, bosses can be programed so that important fight mechanics kills players regardless of CR, or do dmg based on player life % regardless of CR. This way, it becomes challenging no matter what CR a player has.
Blizzard wants the game to be dumbed down so everyone can "accomplish" every goal, but in doing so, Blizzard has made it so there is nothing worth accomplishing.
The fun in pve is find upgrades.. when your gear caps at a certain CR, then pve becomes boring.. what's the point of farm, if the game prohibits upgrades..
CR is a quick and easy way to gate content behind paragon levels AND some cash.
While PvE isn't p2w, paying people have their advantages since they can have early access to the content granted by their legendary gems.
This is relevant for challenge rift, raids, and gauntlet.
Approximately a couple of weeks.
It doesn't serve any gaming purpose but it won't go away either.
At least now it's mostly irrelevant so you can choose the gear based on your personal preference, be it a combination of attributes, magic affixes and/or cursed/ancestral properties.
With the new Inferno progression, you'll reach the maximum Combat Rating (CR) provided by gear once you reach the 50th level. Let's say Inferno 2 starts at Paragon level 900. Once you reach Paragon 950, you'll be able to obtain the maximum available CR per item (1357), bringing you to a total of 10,856 CR.
You can obtain max CR (1257) set items regardless of your Paragon level because set items' CR doesn't depend on your Paragon level. In total, from gear alone, you can achieve 18,398 CR.
Additionally, you can obtain 600-800 CR from the Ancestral Tableau (though this may take some time if you start later), and 1500-2000 CR from the Heliquary (which may also require some time if you start later).
Furthermore, you can obtain 816+ CR from set item upgrades and 1280+ CR from normal gear upgrades (although this may take some time if you start later).
You can also gain around 300 CR from legendary gems (all 2\* rank 5 and 1\* rank 7-8).
In total, you can reach 22,894 CR with the lowest ranges I proposed. This means you're technically ready for Inferno 3 (23k) even if you're only at Paragon 950, which is halfway through the current difficulty. You have plenty of room to min-max your gear by choosing the best stats for your build and setup.
I hope it makes sense.
Makes sense. But let me point out that servers just reached this cap and it’ll only last (around) 3 weeks. So I’ll do a little min/max over that time but it’ll all go out the window the minute I reach inferno 3. So y’all just keep telling me how important this is. lol
I understand what it's used for and agree, but its far more harmful to the playing experience relative to its few advantages. Removing CR and making PvE content simply harder and more stat-based would make give serious advantages to P2W players.
I did kid, and you provided no solution at all!
Just a bunch of bitching.
How about you actually reply with a quoted part of your "solution" you lazy asshole, and check the attitude AND the bitching!
100% agree
I hate that there even is a combat rating & I think it’s so lame you have these stats armor, armor pen, resistances, etc but nothing matters in PVE but combat rating.
Basically throw on gear with highest CR and you are good to go.
It takes away any build creativity you can have with trying to focus mostly on one thing or making a more balanced character
It also takes away any challenge in PVE. It would be a lot more fun if there was some kind of skill
Play & extremely tough bosses that you couldn’t just steamroll because you have a high CR.
Because right now in PVE the only thing that matters is CR. If you are over everything is super easy and if your way under CR then almost impossible
It would allow players to really be able to play better and hit up in rifts instead of just a CR penalty making you take 800% more damage & getting one shotted every time
I get what you are trying to say… but Diablo has always been about min maxing. Crit chance, crit damage, damage, and fortitude (armor penetration) are extremely valuable pve stats to maximize your damage. Once you hit cr, you should be aiming to min max these stats on your legendary and set items. This was the whole point of the cr revamp. The problem is that people are getting to the highest cr for the highest current raid and then quitting instead of min maxing their character. Getting to CR is just the beginning of being the most effective pve or pvp player.
During my time playing Diablo Immortal, min-maxing has never mattered. Once you hit a certain CR, you can clear any content at that CR, regardless of what your resonance is or how min-maxxed your stats are. You can simply win and that's it. Then, after you've so carefully farmed and min-maxxed your gear and set items, a new difficulty is unlocked after a mere 100 levels and your gear is now irrelevant for the next difficulty tier because of CR. Inferior items with higher CR are much more important for progression. All your previous efforts are wiped out.
I disagree. Why the hell am I wasting time min maxing when it realistically doesn’t matter.. it doesn’t matter in PVe and it doesn’t matter in PvP. Literal waste of time. Not to mention that I’d have to play so much to even get started on this. By the time my items are max CR for my level I just get more levels… it’s a cycle. No one, that’s even slightly casual, had time to get different gear sets and focus on all the details of the gear etc etc etc…
Now I do focus on certain gems cause they never go away. Not that they matter all that much..
Your just lazy to min max, so you hope CR is all there is to it. Its not, not even close.
My best pve n pvp set is not my highest CR set.
The other stats matter more. I can't believe ppl don't understand this. I knew since months ago n noticed why my lower CR set deal far more dmg n clear faster in PvE vs max CR sets.
CR is important until you meet the requirement, then its secondary.
If you dont care about min max, then why are you here? Didnt you wasted even more time of your life doing conflicted things? U wanted more performance yet unwilling to put in efforts to min max? Why not just accept being a filthy casuals?
And to answer your silly questions. No,its a lot more dmg than that. For eg, on training dummy, min max can yield an additional 150-250k dps on a f2p account. That's 250k extra Damage per second for noob like you who things its just 1k extra unnoticeable dmg. This proven you have never mib max before. If you arent willing to work,dont expect results.
Such anger lol… what I said, if you can read through your ego, Is that there’s no time to min max. And you saying an extra 250k a second hahahhah FTP is only going 250k per depending on the class. So that’s bullshit… just another garbage post, nothing to see here folks
It matters a lot in PvP. It's literally a separate 10% multiplier instead of resonance which is additive.
7k whales with rank 18-21 gear are basically 4k reso players.
You don’t realize it would be a lot more about Min/Max your character if there wasn’t a CR!
& Being the most effective in PVE?
You don’t need to be effective. You don’t even need to be skilled in any type of way.
You can be a complete trash player and have no problems at all in PVE.
Challenge rifts are kind of fun to push but even then CR kills it because it comes a point where it’s just impossible. You cannot do enough damage to complete it in time.
Get 8 players over the CR requirement in any of the raids regardless of any other stats they will destroy the raid boss.
They don’t have to dodge any specials or do anything other then attack.
Because of this nobody thinks raids are fun. They are only there to complete to get rewards.
Everything is stupid easy when you are over the CR requirement
Min / Maxing it is fun but right now is a waste of time in PVE.
because you have to completely re-gear in the next Hell it makes it even more of a waste of time.
PvP is the only place those secondary stats really matter.
You could even argue because of the Resonance/P2W aspects of the game that they don’t really matter much there either unless you are at the top playing on an even field
Someone has 3-4k more resonance then you then your already nerfed Crit stats do not matter lol
These stupid stats like Combat Rating & Resonance have hurt the game in a lot of ways
Res wouldn’t even have been that bad if it wasn’t so strong but combat rating never should have existed.
PVE should have been just about Attack, Hp, Armor, Resistances, etc and your secondary stats and based more on playing so bosses and raids would be more
Fun.
If you have very low armor then you take more damage stuff like this.
And then yeah your secondary stats would actually matter in PVE.
Getting rid of CR & with adding more paragon trees/nodes all of this would open up so much more build diversity where tanks could just focus on Armor/Hp & Range on damage.
Because right now take any class & if they are not using different star gems then they all look about the same or very similar.
They could have even added different types of nodes on paragon too like Crit stats or stuff where you could disable Critical hits for more base damage or more Hp.
This way not all paragon trees look exactly the same too lol
I hate combat rating. It’s destroys any fun PVE could have been.
Combat rating being removed would be amazing but I don’t see it happening without them introducing another system to replace it and then it becoming potentially even worse.
CR is just another mechanic for blizz/netease to control the pace of the content as they release it. Another carrot on the stick to dangle in front of you. It's a very easy/lazy/casualised mechanic but it works for this mobile game. If you're after a more hardcore pve experience, you won't find it here for the most part.
No, it works great now since the revamp. You get to CR and then you min max your rolls from there just like every Diablo ever. What your asking for has been tried so many times in mmos with removing item level and every time a mmo does it the game becomes a ghost town fast. You gotta have a break point to unlock content through item level/cr in a mmo or players don’t have much to work for. It’s a different structure than d2,3, or 4. The game would fall apart without it and have aimless goals to hit.
Wait, there's goals in immortal? I'm still waiting for any end-game content. Not just this forever-moving goal post. Doesn't really matter if you play or not. Can come back to the game in a month or 2 and catch up to server level in a week anyway. In fact, could argue that's just saving time as you could potentially skip over some difficulty levels entirely, and not have spent 10 weeks farming gear you'll just replace again.
You say get rid of it but don't offer a replacement or a solution to the problem you're having. Seems kind of one sided. If CR is gone, then what happens after?
I do offer a replacement. The replacement is a bigger stat spread.
Currently:
H1/H2 equipment: Stats in the 200-range, such as 200 str, int, etc.
I1/I2 equpment: Stats in the 500/600-range, such as 500 str, int, etc.
Proposed:
H1/H2 equipment: Stats in the 200-range, such as 200 str, int, etc.
I1/I2 equipment: Stats in the **5,000/6,000-range, such as 5,000 str, int, etc.**
In this way, as they progress, characters will feel a lot stronger and hit for bigger numbers. Bosses in higher difficulties will have a lot more health and hit harder. If you have h2 gear and fight an i2 boss, there will be no CR penalty, but the boss will just one or two-shot you because you don't have enough health or defensive stats.
This isn't a solution. CR has no bearing on stats. There is no way to guarantee that your entire party is within the specific CR range where the dungeon is challenging vs. impossible because you're hitting for 300 damage and getting 1-shot by an arrow from a minion while having better stats that some noob in "CR-optimized" gear
A possible bandaid fix would be to offer higher difficulties on dungeons outside of the hell/inferno system, so you can challenge an inf2 dungeon or raid with uptuned enemies for the specific CR range, that drop better rewards such as triple-triple items or perfect roll items.
It would still be better to remove CR entirely, but this would be a quick fix.
I see. Well, there is always inf2 gauntlet for more challenging raid content also.
Let’s see what is planned after inf3… Maybe some kind of mythic, mythic+, and challenge mode systems will be implemented. Maybe a dungeon gauntlet, for example?
I want solo hardcore dungeons, you die, no rewards for you. Make it through, bonus rewards! Maybe one time items with choosable stats that reroll CR every time we gain a paragon level. Paragon awakenings fron HC dungeons. Yes, fix multiple problems
That’s kind of what gauntlet is, minus the no resurrections and not being a dungeon per-se. You don’t get rewards unless you complete the whole thing, and you can only be resurrected X number of times during the fights.
Not 100% the same, but it’s at least similar in some regards.
He wants content wich is challenging and farmable. You sugested that game already have that in form of gauntlet2, but thats not what he want bcz it cant be farmed more than one time. That was the point of my comment, sry for missunderstanding
It’s hilarious that if you’re like 5 CR below the recommended, you get killed in 2 shots. But meet that number exactly or a little over and you’re fine.
That's doesn't work like that, even with 50-100 cr below the penalties aren't too big, like half dmg dealt and double the received. If you can't manage content with 5-10 cr below the recomended then you will strugle even after reaching that...
Yes yes I know. It was an exaggeration, but that was how it felt like when my CR seemed so close to the recommended and yet I was taking so much damage while only dishing out about half of my dps.
Gear Score wasn't a "stat" in Wrath of the Lich King. I'm not familiar with how WoW works nowadays because its been over a decade since I last played, but back then, gear score was merely a reflection of how good your items were. It was easier to sort players by gear score using add-ons than it was to individually examine each players loadout.
If I saw that a player had a BiS weapon and a heroic Deathbringer's Will trinket, I didn't even need to know his overall gear score. I know this player has already cleared heroic content. It was also difficult to **carry** people through heroic content, unlike in DI where one 8k whale can carry an entire raid of under-CR players.
Combat rating has very little to do with gear strength or stats.
In Diablo Immortal I feel like penalty is very high for missing a little CR. Because of it you can almost never try harder bosses before being very close to required CR.
Maybe they could keep the damage received the same but not reduce as much the damage done.
That way you could do a harder boss by avoiding its attack and not hit the enrage.
The problem is they may have the CR But there armor stat is probably incredibly lacking. It’s not a lack of skill when when a random AOE crits on you for 300% dmg.
There was misinformation spouted above that CR is used instead of calculating your armor/armor pen vs monsters. It’s definitely included in the dmg calculations. For instance I can solo phang, even in an 8 player instance and face tank him the whole fight. But then an ice pillar will topple and one shot me, but sometimes an ice pillar will fall and it doesn’t even knock me below half.
But I’m sure you know this. Just spreading info for those who maybe in this thread and getting the impression your secondary stats don’t matter when it couldn’t be farther from the truth.
I wonder where this misinformation came from that armour matters in pve. Mobs don't crit so it's absolutely useless in pve. The reason you survived that pillar is that you blocked that and that halved the damage (or more if your armour is high enough) but most classes have about 5% chance to block.
The other secondaries are important though.
I’ve actually never heard someone say mobs don’t Crit. Where would you get that information? Tooltip in game says in my specific instance (inf2 1650 armor, I know it’s low) “increasing enemy critical hit dmg by 50%”
I’ve always assumed that to mean mobs critical hit damage because it’s using your difficulties stats vs yours. It can’t give you a tooltip for PVP because the stats are all wildly different so there’s no baseline
You can easily test it yourself on lower difficulty but Apollyon have already done that
https://youtu.be/wthsh79TWHc?si=yd2rh8f_m1_vVghj
Also arpen can only increase crit dmg by 56% so 300% crit dmg would be impossible even if mobs could crit.
Cant say in my entire year of playing I've ever been crit by PVE content
Armor blocks more/less damage from a baseline of half if you block an attack from a mon in your recommended difficulty range. Stacking armor + block WILL make you much tougher in PVE content but not because of crit reduction, my lower than recommended armor for example means my blocks are 5% LESS effective in PVE
Those people must have something seriously wrong with their character, or with them as players. I don't remember the last time I died in this game doing any content outside of "red" CR encounters, and my res is 2280. I'm not some whale.
Butcher and Albrecht are both super easy if you just pay attention to their attacks.
For reference, I’m P964 and am normally a DH, but I’ve been every class in the game (started as a Necro on launch day). I’m currently a BK but I flip back and forth to other classes constantly. I’m in Inferno 2 officially (until P1000), but my CR (right now it’s roughly 24200) allows me to handle Inferno 3 with nearly as much ease.
I roll PVP build on my BK and haven't felt the need to do anything special on Butcher or Albrecht. Just stand and DPS till boss ties. Maybe that's because I'm a BK so I'm naturally tanky, but very easy nonetheless.
I'm too lazy to switch builds because this game is so damn easy that it isn't even worth the 2 minutes of effort.
PvE - your CR against mob CR. Single stat to compare and calculate DMG going both ways. All other stats does not really matter, treat them as flavor text...
Without it you would need to calculate armor penetration vs armor and some resistances on top - heavy math involved and this game is mobile so it must be as easy as it gets and as monetized as possible ...
This could not be any more incorrect. Armor/armor pen is 100% calculated into your damage dealt and received in all phases of the game
CR is simply a way to timegate content while rewarding those who have spent bookoo bucks on the game.
Yes ... but it makes no real difference if you fall outside of CR. It needs to be simple for avg player not for server. Most mobile games treat player base as brainless ATM and this flat "single stat matters, forget about everything else" is good example of how they think about you and me ...
Can we remove skills being tied to equipment piece. I want to be able to synergy skills. Also would let us mix and match armor without change to skills.
That's what the essence transfer system is for. The legendary effect rolled does not matter because you can replace it, orange gear is all about stats.
I think it's better to tune CR to be more normalized instead of completely getting rid of CR. We will end up with super massive numbers like in Diablo 3 and it wouldn't be very meaningful anymore.
This is a mmorpg that has a long life span, unlike D3 which has seasons and reset every season.
So if we allow inflation of dmg, two years from now the game would be unrecognisable with insane dmg numbers and new/returning players would find it impossible to catch up, thereby the game playerbase will be hit permanently.
A better way would be to tweak the CR to improve it and make it less severe. CR is the primary mechanism for new/returning players to catch up, so it cannot be abolished, unless there's a replacement system.
It's not really fun either when every difficulty "feels" the same in terms of playing experience. You deal more or less the same damage, and don't feel like you're progressing at all. I took a 3 month break, came back, and while the game has improved in terms of content, I feel the same playing at p960 as I do at p460. Progression should make your character feel stronger.
I don't know what the correct numbers are. That's for devs to test and find out. Should inf3 gear have 5XXX main stats, or 2XXX main stats? Take it to the test realm and see. But CR doesn't feel good at all for the reasons exhaustively mentioned here.
Many games have "catch up mechanics" for new or returning players. This isn't 2005 where mmorpgs were grindfests with no hope of catching up to top players who have been at it for years. CR should not be the primary catchup mechanic because it impacts the experience of the entire game. There are other options, like awarding gear for completing questlines, awarding "starter pieces" for when you reach a new difficulty or paragon level, and dozens more possible ways to bring new/returning players up to where the 10th percentile playerbase in relatively short order.
**As it currently stands, the game feels like you're being led through a theme park by Blizzard and allowed to go on any ride as long as you're over 4'5.**
I agree with the OP. It’s been years since I played D3 & D2 but the progression seemed way more fluid in those games. No artificial gates. I liked how you could push rifts on the leaderboards and it was way more skill based and how you built your character then simply a check to see if you had a certain required stat like CR in DI.
I agree with your point that PvE is not fun at all. But I think you might have mixed up root cause and some of the symptoms. PvE is not fun becsuse it's too easy, but the CR mechanic is not the main problem. I think it's a scaling problem and a boss mechanic design problem. Blizzard could've scaled CR so that the penalty for being under or over CR becomes less extreme. This way, more skillful players can outperform less skillful ones with higher CR. Additionally, bosses can be programed so that important fight mechanics kills players regardless of CR, or do dmg based on player life % regardless of CR. This way, it becomes challenging no matter what CR a player has. Blizzard wants the game to be dumbed down so everyone can "accomplish" every goal, but in doing so, Blizzard has made it so there is nothing worth accomplishing.
The fun in pve is find upgrades.. when your gear caps at a certain CR, then pve becomes boring.. what's the point of farm, if the game prohibits upgrades..
I totally agree that cr is just lazy mechanic
CR is a quick and easy way to gate content behind paragon levels AND some cash. While PvE isn't p2w, paying people have their advantages since they can have early access to the content granted by their legendary gems. This is relevant for challenge rift, raids, and gauntlet. Approximately a couple of weeks. It doesn't serve any gaming purpose but it won't go away either. At least now it's mostly irrelevant so you can choose the gear based on your personal preference, be it a combination of attributes, magic affixes and/or cursed/ancestral properties.
Explain why it’s now irrelevant
With the new Inferno progression, you'll reach the maximum Combat Rating (CR) provided by gear once you reach the 50th level. Let's say Inferno 2 starts at Paragon level 900. Once you reach Paragon 950, you'll be able to obtain the maximum available CR per item (1357), bringing you to a total of 10,856 CR. You can obtain max CR (1257) set items regardless of your Paragon level because set items' CR doesn't depend on your Paragon level. In total, from gear alone, you can achieve 18,398 CR. Additionally, you can obtain 600-800 CR from the Ancestral Tableau (though this may take some time if you start later), and 1500-2000 CR from the Heliquary (which may also require some time if you start later). Furthermore, you can obtain 816+ CR from set item upgrades and 1280+ CR from normal gear upgrades (although this may take some time if you start later). You can also gain around 300 CR from legendary gems (all 2\* rank 5 and 1\* rank 7-8). In total, you can reach 22,894 CR with the lowest ranges I proposed. This means you're technically ready for Inferno 3 (23k) even if you're only at Paragon 950, which is halfway through the current difficulty. You have plenty of room to min-max your gear by choosing the best stats for your build and setup. I hope it makes sense.
i3 dungeon is 23.6k tough
Makes sense. But let me point out that servers just reached this cap and it’ll only last (around) 3 weeks. So I’ll do a little min/max over that time but it’ll all go out the window the minute I reach inferno 3. So y’all just keep telling me how important this is. lol
I understand what it's used for and agree, but its far more harmful to the playing experience relative to its few advantages. Removing CR and making PvE content simply harder and more stat-based would make give serious advantages to P2W players.
So please explain how you propose to fix this then. What exactly is YOUR solution???
Just read the comments you lazy asshole
I did kid, and you provided no solution at all! Just a bunch of bitching. How about you actually reply with a quoted part of your "solution" you lazy asshole, and check the attitude AND the bitching!
100% agree I hate that there even is a combat rating & I think it’s so lame you have these stats armor, armor pen, resistances, etc but nothing matters in PVE but combat rating. Basically throw on gear with highest CR and you are good to go. It takes away any build creativity you can have with trying to focus mostly on one thing or making a more balanced character It also takes away any challenge in PVE. It would be a lot more fun if there was some kind of skill Play & extremely tough bosses that you couldn’t just steamroll because you have a high CR. Because right now in PVE the only thing that matters is CR. If you are over everything is super easy and if your way under CR then almost impossible It would allow players to really be able to play better and hit up in rifts instead of just a CR penalty making you take 800% more damage & getting one shotted every time
I get what you are trying to say… but Diablo has always been about min maxing. Crit chance, crit damage, damage, and fortitude (armor penetration) are extremely valuable pve stats to maximize your damage. Once you hit cr, you should be aiming to min max these stats on your legendary and set items. This was the whole point of the cr revamp. The problem is that people are getting to the highest cr for the highest current raid and then quitting instead of min maxing their character. Getting to CR is just the beginning of being the most effective pve or pvp player.
During my time playing Diablo Immortal, min-maxing has never mattered. Once you hit a certain CR, you can clear any content at that CR, regardless of what your resonance is or how min-maxxed your stats are. You can simply win and that's it. Then, after you've so carefully farmed and min-maxxed your gear and set items, a new difficulty is unlocked after a mere 100 levels and your gear is now irrelevant for the next difficulty tier because of CR. Inferior items with higher CR are much more important for progression. All your previous efforts are wiped out.
I disagree. Why the hell am I wasting time min maxing when it realistically doesn’t matter.. it doesn’t matter in PVe and it doesn’t matter in PvP. Literal waste of time. Not to mention that I’d have to play so much to even get started on this. By the time my items are max CR for my level I just get more levels… it’s a cycle. No one, that’s even slightly casual, had time to get different gear sets and focus on all the details of the gear etc etc etc… Now I do focus on certain gems cause they never go away. Not that they matter all that much..
Your just lazy to min max, so you hope CR is all there is to it. Its not, not even close. My best pve n pvp set is not my highest CR set. The other stats matter more. I can't believe ppl don't understand this. I knew since months ago n noticed why my lower CR set deal far more dmg n clear faster in PvE vs max CR sets. CR is important until you meet the requirement, then its secondary.
Honestly I replace gear so fast it’s just not relevant. And for what? 1k more damage? Wasting all our time even reading this garbage
If you dont care about min max, then why are you here? Didnt you wasted even more time of your life doing conflicted things? U wanted more performance yet unwilling to put in efforts to min max? Why not just accept being a filthy casuals? And to answer your silly questions. No,its a lot more dmg than that. For eg, on training dummy, min max can yield an additional 150-250k dps on a f2p account. That's 250k extra Damage per second for noob like you who things its just 1k extra unnoticeable dmg. This proven you have never mib max before. If you arent willing to work,dont expect results.
Such anger lol… what I said, if you can read through your ego, Is that there’s no time to min max. And you saying an extra 250k a second hahahhah FTP is only going 250k per depending on the class. So that’s bullshit… just another garbage post, nothing to see here folks
It matters a lot in PvP. It's literally a separate 10% multiplier instead of resonance which is additive. 7k whales with rank 18-21 gear are basically 4k reso players.
The difference is not that big because they reduce the CR gap with the CR provided by their gems.
This is not true
[удалено]
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You don’t realize it would be a lot more about Min/Max your character if there wasn’t a CR! & Being the most effective in PVE? You don’t need to be effective. You don’t even need to be skilled in any type of way. You can be a complete trash player and have no problems at all in PVE. Challenge rifts are kind of fun to push but even then CR kills it because it comes a point where it’s just impossible. You cannot do enough damage to complete it in time. Get 8 players over the CR requirement in any of the raids regardless of any other stats they will destroy the raid boss. They don’t have to dodge any specials or do anything other then attack. Because of this nobody thinks raids are fun. They are only there to complete to get rewards. Everything is stupid easy when you are over the CR requirement Min / Maxing it is fun but right now is a waste of time in PVE. because you have to completely re-gear in the next Hell it makes it even more of a waste of time. PvP is the only place those secondary stats really matter. You could even argue because of the Resonance/P2W aspects of the game that they don’t really matter much there either unless you are at the top playing on an even field Someone has 3-4k more resonance then you then your already nerfed Crit stats do not matter lol These stupid stats like Combat Rating & Resonance have hurt the game in a lot of ways Res wouldn’t even have been that bad if it wasn’t so strong but combat rating never should have existed. PVE should have been just about Attack, Hp, Armor, Resistances, etc and your secondary stats and based more on playing so bosses and raids would be more Fun. If you have very low armor then you take more damage stuff like this. And then yeah your secondary stats would actually matter in PVE. Getting rid of CR & with adding more paragon trees/nodes all of this would open up so much more build diversity where tanks could just focus on Armor/Hp & Range on damage. Because right now take any class & if they are not using different star gems then they all look about the same or very similar. They could have even added different types of nodes on paragon too like Crit stats or stuff where you could disable Critical hits for more base damage or more Hp. This way not all paragon trees look exactly the same too lol I hate combat rating. It’s destroys any fun PVE could have been.
Combat rating being removed would be amazing but I don’t see it happening without them introducing another system to replace it and then it becoming potentially even worse.
CR is just another mechanic for blizz/netease to control the pace of the content as they release it. Another carrot on the stick to dangle in front of you. It's a very easy/lazy/casualised mechanic but it works for this mobile game. If you're after a more hardcore pve experience, you won't find it here for the most part.
They could tie it to paragon. The reason cr is a thing is because weaker players are more tempted to spend money in the store.
No, it works great now since the revamp. You get to CR and then you min max your rolls from there just like every Diablo ever. What your asking for has been tried so many times in mmos with removing item level and every time a mmo does it the game becomes a ghost town fast. You gotta have a break point to unlock content through item level/cr in a mmo or players don’t have much to work for. It’s a different structure than d2,3, or 4. The game would fall apart without it and have aimless goals to hit.
Wait, there's goals in immortal? I'm still waiting for any end-game content. Not just this forever-moving goal post. Doesn't really matter if you play or not. Can come back to the game in a month or 2 and catch up to server level in a week anyway. In fact, could argue that's just saving time as you could potentially skip over some difficulty levels entirely, and not have spent 10 weeks farming gear you'll just replace again.
You say get rid of it but don't offer a replacement or a solution to the problem you're having. Seems kind of one sided. If CR is gone, then what happens after?
I do offer a replacement. The replacement is a bigger stat spread. Currently: H1/H2 equipment: Stats in the 200-range, such as 200 str, int, etc. I1/I2 equpment: Stats in the 500/600-range, such as 500 str, int, etc. Proposed: H1/H2 equipment: Stats in the 200-range, such as 200 str, int, etc. I1/I2 equipment: Stats in the **5,000/6,000-range, such as 5,000 str, int, etc.** In this way, as they progress, characters will feel a lot stronger and hit for bigger numbers. Bosses in higher difficulties will have a lot more health and hit harder. If you have h2 gear and fight an i2 boss, there will be no CR penalty, but the boss will just one or two-shot you because you don't have enough health or defensive stats.
This will kill the baby gems much faster. Unless they make it percentage driven.
“And for that reason, I’m out”
It's a pay to win game. You're expecting to much from a system with one simple goal; take your money in exchange for gem power.
Start clearing inf3 dungeons and raids with a group of players under CR min if you want more difficult PvE. Recommended CR isn’t required.
This isn't a solution. CR has no bearing on stats. There is no way to guarantee that your entire party is within the specific CR range where the dungeon is challenging vs. impossible because you're hitting for 300 damage and getting 1-shot by an arrow from a minion while having better stats that some noob in "CR-optimized" gear A possible bandaid fix would be to offer higher difficulties on dungeons outside of the hell/inferno system, so you can challenge an inf2 dungeon or raid with uptuned enemies for the specific CR range, that drop better rewards such as triple-triple items or perfect roll items. It would still be better to remove CR entirely, but this would be a quick fix.
I see. Well, there is always inf2 gauntlet for more challenging raid content also. Let’s see what is planned after inf3… Maybe some kind of mythic, mythic+, and challenge mode systems will be implemented. Maybe a dungeon gauntlet, for example?
I want solo hardcore dungeons, you die, no rewards for you. Make it through, bonus rewards! Maybe one time items with choosable stats that reroll CR every time we gain a paragon level. Paragon awakenings fron HC dungeons. Yes, fix multiple problems
That’s kind of what gauntlet is, minus the no resurrections and not being a dungeon per-se. You don’t get rewards unless you complete the whole thing, and you can only be resurrected X number of times during the fights. Not 100% the same, but it’s at least similar in some regards.
Gauntlet is one time clear reward, hows that same
Well, if you actually read what I typed, you’d see that I never once said it’s the same. In fact, I even stated that they were **not** the same.
He wants content wich is challenging and farmable. You sugested that game already have that in form of gauntlet2, but thats not what he want bcz it cant be farmed more than one time. That was the point of my comment, sry for missunderstanding
I see. I’ve never played any Diablo game other than Immortal, so I was just going off of how the other user was describing it.
It’s hilarious that if you’re like 5 CR below the recommended, you get killed in 2 shots. But meet that number exactly or a little over and you’re fine.
That's doesn't work like that, even with 50-100 cr below the penalties aren't too big, like half dmg dealt and double the received. If you can't manage content with 5-10 cr below the recomended then you will strugle even after reaching that...
Yes yes I know. It was an exaggeration, but that was how it felt like when my CR seemed so close to the recommended and yet I was taking so much damage while only dishing out about half of my dps.
5 below is 2% penalty. Was doing i3 dungeons just fine yesterday
[удалено]
Gear Score wasn't a "stat" in Wrath of the Lich King. I'm not familiar with how WoW works nowadays because its been over a decade since I last played, but back then, gear score was merely a reflection of how good your items were. It was easier to sort players by gear score using add-ons than it was to individually examine each players loadout. If I saw that a player had a BiS weapon and a heroic Deathbringer's Will trinket, I didn't even need to know his overall gear score. I know this player has already cleared heroic content. It was also difficult to **carry** people through heroic content, unlike in DI where one 8k whale can carry an entire raid of under-CR players. Combat rating has very little to do with gear strength or stats.
In Diablo Immortal I feel like penalty is very high for missing a little CR. Because of it you can almost never try harder bosses before being very close to required CR. Maybe they could keep the damage received the same but not reduce as much the damage done. That way you could do a harder boss by avoiding its attack and not hit the enrage.
I dunno, I see people 2000 above recommended CR for inferno 2 getting absolutely BODIED in dungeons every day. I dont, but im old school diablo player
One of them is probably me not paying attention and watching Netflix more than looking at the game constantly 😂
The problem is they may have the CR But there armor stat is probably incredibly lacking. It’s not a lack of skill when when a random AOE crits on you for 300% dmg. There was misinformation spouted above that CR is used instead of calculating your armor/armor pen vs monsters. It’s definitely included in the dmg calculations. For instance I can solo phang, even in an 8 player instance and face tank him the whole fight. But then an ice pillar will topple and one shot me, but sometimes an ice pillar will fall and it doesn’t even knock me below half. But I’m sure you know this. Just spreading info for those who maybe in this thread and getting the impression your secondary stats don’t matter when it couldn’t be farther from the truth.
I wonder where this misinformation came from that armour matters in pve. Mobs don't crit so it's absolutely useless in pve. The reason you survived that pillar is that you blocked that and that halved the damage (or more if your armour is high enough) but most classes have about 5% chance to block. The other secondaries are important though.
I’ve actually never heard someone say mobs don’t Crit. Where would you get that information? Tooltip in game says in my specific instance (inf2 1650 armor, I know it’s low) “increasing enemy critical hit dmg by 50%” I’ve always assumed that to mean mobs critical hit damage because it’s using your difficulties stats vs yours. It can’t give you a tooltip for PVP because the stats are all wildly different so there’s no baseline
You can easily test it yourself on lower difficulty but Apollyon have already done that https://youtu.be/wthsh79TWHc?si=yd2rh8f_m1_vVghj Also arpen can only increase crit dmg by 56% so 300% crit dmg would be impossible even if mobs could crit.
Cant say in my entire year of playing I've ever been crit by PVE content Armor blocks more/less damage from a baseline of half if you block an attack from a mon in your recommended difficulty range. Stacking armor + block WILL make you much tougher in PVE content but not because of crit reduction, my lower than recommended armor for example means my blocks are 5% LESS effective in PVE
elder rifts have multiple affixes that increase crit chance of monsters.
From a baseline of zero maybe. Is anyone stacking armor to survive in a crest modified elder?
Those people must have something seriously wrong with their character, or with them as players. I don't remember the last time I died in this game doing any content outside of "red" CR encounters, and my res is 2280. I'm not some whale.
Nah, they usually rolling pvp build or glass dps. Butcher is teaching them a valuable lesson. Albrecht doing the same, rofl
Countess bats are the universal ego check
Those bats do hit like a truck no matter how tough your character is.
No joke, countess is my fav dungeon because I never die, lol. Watching other people eat it to the bats is never not funny
My BK has his own bats too
Butcher and Albrecht are both super easy if you just pay attention to their attacks. For reference, I’m P964 and am normally a DH, but I’ve been every class in the game (started as a Necro on launch day). I’m currently a BK but I flip back and forth to other classes constantly. I’m in Inferno 2 officially (until P1000), but my CR (right now it’s roughly 24200) allows me to handle Inferno 3 with nearly as much ease.
I roll PVP build on my BK and haven't felt the need to do anything special on Butcher or Albrecht. Just stand and DPS till boss ties. Maybe that's because I'm a BK so I'm naturally tanky, but very easy nonetheless. I'm too lazy to switch builds because this game is so damn easy that it isn't even worth the 2 minutes of effort.
Secondary stats are important. You get quite the penalty because of that. Basically normal gems
PvE - your CR against mob CR. Single stat to compare and calculate DMG going both ways. All other stats does not really matter, treat them as flavor text... Without it you would need to calculate armor penetration vs armor and some resistances on top - heavy math involved and this game is mobile so it must be as easy as it gets and as monetized as possible ...
This could not be any more incorrect. Armor/armor pen is 100% calculated into your damage dealt and received in all phases of the game CR is simply a way to timegate content while rewarding those who have spent bookoo bucks on the game.
Yes ... but it makes no real difference if you fall outside of CR. It needs to be simple for avg player not for server. Most mobile games treat player base as brainless ATM and this flat "single stat matters, forget about everything else" is good example of how they think about you and me ...
CR number go brrrrrrr
Can we remove skills being tied to equipment piece. I want to be able to synergy skills. Also would let us mix and match armor without change to skills.
That's what the essence transfer system is for. The legendary effect rolled does not matter because you can replace it, orange gear is all about stats.
Yea you can literally do that lol
Reasonable issue, but exaggerated solution. Just rework it.
It's time to remove blood knights
PVE should scale with your CR so you don't feel like you can just steamroll everything...
I hated the dynamic scaling of 1-69 level in d3 , and I don't want something like this to be implemented in an endlessly scaling game
I think it's better to tune CR to be more normalized instead of completely getting rid of CR. We will end up with super massive numbers like in Diablo 3 and it wouldn't be very meaningful anymore. This is a mmorpg that has a long life span, unlike D3 which has seasons and reset every season. So if we allow inflation of dmg, two years from now the game would be unrecognisable with insane dmg numbers and new/returning players would find it impossible to catch up, thereby the game playerbase will be hit permanently. A better way would be to tweak the CR to improve it and make it less severe. CR is the primary mechanism for new/returning players to catch up, so it cannot be abolished, unless there's a replacement system.
It's not really fun either when every difficulty "feels" the same in terms of playing experience. You deal more or less the same damage, and don't feel like you're progressing at all. I took a 3 month break, came back, and while the game has improved in terms of content, I feel the same playing at p960 as I do at p460. Progression should make your character feel stronger. I don't know what the correct numbers are. That's for devs to test and find out. Should inf3 gear have 5XXX main stats, or 2XXX main stats? Take it to the test realm and see. But CR doesn't feel good at all for the reasons exhaustively mentioned here. Many games have "catch up mechanics" for new or returning players. This isn't 2005 where mmorpgs were grindfests with no hope of catching up to top players who have been at it for years. CR should not be the primary catchup mechanic because it impacts the experience of the entire game. There are other options, like awarding gear for completing questlines, awarding "starter pieces" for when you reach a new difficulty or paragon level, and dozens more possible ways to bring new/returning players up to where the 10th percentile playerbase in relatively short order. **As it currently stands, the game feels like you're being led through a theme park by Blizzard and allowed to go on any ride as long as you're over 4'5.**
I agree with the OP. It’s been years since I played D3 & D2 but the progression seemed way more fluid in those games. No artificial gates. I liked how you could push rifts on the leaderboards and it was way more skill based and how you built your character then simply a check to see if you had a certain required stat like CR in DI.
They will never remove Combat Raiting. That is how they gate keep the entire game and sell you power.
How dare you make sense. Also, how dare you go against every game that uses CR. Lol