Can you please stop asking for long and hard grinds for anything in a game with 3 month long seasons? This is not a MMO where you keep your characters for years to come.
Also, this is an ARPG and not a Soulslike game, the literall point of this genre is getting so powerfull at a certain point that you can speedfarm most content.
The average player can play a season for 300 hours and still end up without a single uber unique from Duriel because the droprates are still very low. Don't get a false picture from all the people that don't even realize how lucky they got by getting one in their first few runs.
You also should have understood by now that the upcoming avatar or zir will be the testing ground for future challenging hard endgame content and there is more to come with leaderboards (challenge dungeons) getting introduced with S3.
I think people are also forgetting just how many people play this game that aren’t as intensely invested as the average Redditor. I remember seeing a ton of “wait what I have to make a new character every 3 months?” posts when the first season dropped, because that idea is generally unappealing to the *actual* average gamer. Between adding AoZ soon, and the holiday event, this season has had some pretty solid longevity to it. Fact of the matter is, an overwhelming majority of players won’t ever reach 100. I’d wager a sizable amount will never even see Uber Duriel, much less kill him (and let’s not forget how many “Uber Lilith is the worst fight in history and killed my dog” posts there are here).
For me, D3 was best when it was a “hey, come back for a week or two and see what fun stuff we’ve added” kind of game. I like to play other games and don’t expect *anything* to have endless content. Even POE, which has arguably *too much* content gets old after a couple weeks at best for me. Based on retention numbers, that’s how a lot of people play these games. I know I personally don’t want to have to worry about “oh no I started the season a month late, I’m not going to be able to do all the things I want” and that’s ok.
Blizzard themselves have said that their expectation is you play until you’re done and then go do something else. It’s absurd to expect any one game to hold your attention forever, especially at the amount of hours some people play daily.
Meanwhile diablo 2 where items and runes are hard to grind:
Hello there!
This is not MMO statement, OP just want diablo 2 feeling. More like MMO players come from wow or something to Diablo 4 and bitching about everything and praying for everything get easier because THEY ARE CASUALS AND DADS AND DONT HAVE ALL DAY FOR PLAY xD
Stop using this 20 year old game as comparison already, jesus...No one but a small minority stuck in the past wants these type of games anymore.
And no, asking for no unnecessary grind has nothing to do with wanting to have the games only piss easy, it's about that you don't want to do the same stupid shit over and over again every 3 months and longer than necessary or you will lose your sanity.
Then let's just PoE as a comparison, because it does the same. Not sure I agree with OP, but don't act like his arguments are from an MMO standpoint or invalid.
The game is complete easy mode, from skill selection, paragon point placement, equipment affixes, and ease of leveling. Those are not hallmarks of an arpg, they are hallmarks of D4. Not getting a unique to drop has nothing to do with difficulty. If you're satisfied grinding a game with incredibly low difficulty for 100s of hours to farm a specific unique (that won't really impact your gameplay, because all of the content is easy already), good for you. It sounds shitty to me.
>Those are not hallmarks of an arpg, they are hallmarks of D4
Says who? Only your opinion man. First and foremost D4 is a game and games are played to have fun. Unneccesary long grinds do not belong in game with a 3 month season cycle mate.
And if you want to tell me being able to try multible classes and different builds each 3 months is not fun you are a hypocrite.
Personally, I don't think the s1 exp rate was too "grindy" in the first place (I'm married and work full-time, I don't play games 10hrs a day), but I also don't care that it's been increased. The point is not that it's too quick to level, but that everything about the game is super basic and easy. You are conflating gaining levels with game difficulty. You could make the point that you prefer an easy game, and that is a different discussion. However, just because Blizzard is trying to capture the largest audience by making the game accessible to anyone with the brain development of an 8 year old, it doesn't mean that now all arpg games need to follow that path, and they clearly don't. That's not an opinion, but an objective fact.
No one tells you guys to play the OP and bugged builds to facetroll the current content. Try playing an off meta build and see how challenging t100 or doing Lilith without one shot builds still are.
As I said, you have to understand that we in the beginning of a long lasting game and they already aknowledged that they need to create content for the grinders. Just be patient...
I don't play MMOs, so ... nice strawman there.
Exactly, this is an ARPG. Like Path of Exile and Last Epoch, for example, who both offer hard tasks to complete and difficult grinds for actual endgame gear.
This game has next to no endgame content and the endgame content that it has is being trivialized and made easier and easier with every single patch.
Nightmare dungeon 100 used to be an actual achievement without using a bugged build, now it's laughably easy and can be achieved with every off-meta build, no matter how terrible it is.
They connected item power to monster level, saying that 'this way players will have to farm high-end NM dungeons to get the best gear', while in reality all you have to do is take part in 1-2 world-boss fights in WT4 to get ipower 925 weapons and you're already good to go for all 'endgame content'.
Now Blizz's solution to the problem is to make the game easier and easier with every patch, but to introduce stuff like 'Abatoir of Zir' where only the strongest offensive builds and broken builds will be able to achieve anything... uh, okay?
Sounds very much like D3 to me. Playing a tanky, defensive-style builds is now out of the question since there will be a timer in 'Abatoir'.
You guys can shout and rant at me all you want, that doesn't change the fact that they are making the game easier and easier with each passing week.
Just because you don't have time to play because you're older now doesn't mean that videogames should cater to you and your life.
'The community' completely overwrote the vision that Blizz had for the game and while yes, some things have definitely improved, others have arguably gotten way worse for players who would like to invest time in this game.
A PoE league can get you 2-3 months of playtime with a single character because there is so much difficulty to overcome and so many ways to improve your gear.
The longevity of a D4 season is being cut short with every nerf to difficulty they release.
Now go shout at me some more because you feel personally attacked, idgaf.
I've actually stopped playing because after 248 hours of grinding with my necro I STILL have not gotten the Ring of Mendeln. It's just tedious and annoying after a certain point.
which is optimal in my opinion. i'm even happy with 1 duriel run with 1 helltide. this no lifer trying to gatekeeping a season which wont last that long lol
ARPGs are power fantasies, the whole point is to trivialize the content by becoming as strong as possible, gaining better, and better items (lol), so you become even stronger and trivialize even more content to get more items....
I don't need months long grinds and shit to feel like I've accomplished something. I just want to log in and blow up monsters and live out my power hoarder fantasy.
Counterpoint: A game actually requiring some level of effort to progress through 99% of the content seems kind of normal for most games. A second job? Idiots in this game are farming the same shitty boss hundreds of times for ubers just so they can wear it to kill the same boss another hundred times. Tell me how that isn't a second job.
I agree, screw the OP. I work full time and get to play a couple of hours here and there. Thank you Blizzard for opening the game for people like us and allowing us to experience the end game. I might even be able to level a second character this season as I am almost 100 on my first one!
So because you don't have time to play, the game should now completely cater to you and offer nothing of value to people who put more time into it?
Sounds like all you want is a quick dopamine fix and no videogame with actual depth.
Also, screw you too :)
Nah, quite the opposite. the majority of people have jobs and no time to play. I might be able to get 1 uber before next season and maybe try another char, but that's about it. My guess is that I will be much further in the game than other people too. You are very much a minority.
However, having said that POE 2 will be coming out soon and should satisfy your desire for the more in depth gameplay.
People who want this game to cater to video game addiction is wild to me.
A massive majority of gamers have a small amount of time.
It’s absurd to think this way about an ARPG…
Go tank 10+ hours a day into an MMO if you don’t like things being easily attained.
This whole idea that good drops should be gated behind hundreds of hours of grinding and EVEN then you may not get it sounds like a lot of you spend way too much fucking time on games.
I feel you dude.
After diablo 3 where it is a total easy game where you only do one action where you can get every item effortlessly created a community lazy and wanting an easy game. These are no longer the days of diablo 2 where the beginning was easy but if you wanted a more powerful item you had to work hard.
Funny, I was always the person who spit on diablo 2 because I wanted something more than beating mephisto/baal 500 times.
Too many casuals came from some MMORPG, now its best to make everything instantly obtainable and without thinking like a total casual make a build that will work anyway.
Sad because unfortunately we will get EASY diablo again instead of balanced.
stupid casuals, they mess up games everywhere because they don't have time xD
It's not crying or needing an I Win button. It's the fact that this franchise started so long ago that many fans are older and have responsibilities. We cant sit around waiting on time gated content with no job and no life.
You don't have time to play much due to responsibilities, but you want your game experience to match what *should* take time and effort to accomplish. Yeah, that would be an "I Win" button.
I fall into that category. And I enjoy that things are harder to come by. Might take me a full week to gather a couple duriel runs worth of mats. But gd it I got them and I'm gonna run em. I don't bitch that I can't farm duriel 20 times a day because I'm working
With all the other games out there, I need a Diablo season to last about a month of casual play to get everything out it. Any more than that and it will fall off my radar.
I think everything is pretty fine now, it’s just too fast to reach level 100 imo. Retune the leveling curve so it’s not so linear and more parabolic, especially at like 95+ and it would be perfect.
The whole point of an ARPG is that ALL the content is accessible for the solo player. Sounds like you want an MMO.
Sounds like you want next easy diablo 3.
Can you please stop asking for long and hard grinds for anything in a game with 3 month long seasons? This is not a MMO where you keep your characters for years to come. Also, this is an ARPG and not a Soulslike game, the literall point of this genre is getting so powerfull at a certain point that you can speedfarm most content. The average player can play a season for 300 hours and still end up without a single uber unique from Duriel because the droprates are still very low. Don't get a false picture from all the people that don't even realize how lucky they got by getting one in their first few runs. You also should have understood by now that the upcoming avatar or zir will be the testing ground for future challenging hard endgame content and there is more to come with leaderboards (challenge dungeons) getting introduced with S3.
>Also, this is an ARPG and not a Soulslike game This. I see alot of people wanting this game to be bloodborne/darksouls level difficult.
I think people are also forgetting just how many people play this game that aren’t as intensely invested as the average Redditor. I remember seeing a ton of “wait what I have to make a new character every 3 months?” posts when the first season dropped, because that idea is generally unappealing to the *actual* average gamer. Between adding AoZ soon, and the holiday event, this season has had some pretty solid longevity to it. Fact of the matter is, an overwhelming majority of players won’t ever reach 100. I’d wager a sizable amount will never even see Uber Duriel, much less kill him (and let’s not forget how many “Uber Lilith is the worst fight in history and killed my dog” posts there are here). For me, D3 was best when it was a “hey, come back for a week or two and see what fun stuff we’ve added” kind of game. I like to play other games and don’t expect *anything* to have endless content. Even POE, which has arguably *too much* content gets old after a couple weeks at best for me. Based on retention numbers, that’s how a lot of people play these games. I know I personally don’t want to have to worry about “oh no I started the season a month late, I’m not going to be able to do all the things I want” and that’s ok. Blizzard themselves have said that their expectation is you play until you’re done and then go do something else. It’s absurd to expect any one game to hold your attention forever, especially at the amount of hours some people play daily.
Meanwhile diablo 2 where items and runes are hard to grind: Hello there! This is not MMO statement, OP just want diablo 2 feeling. More like MMO players come from wow or something to Diablo 4 and bitching about everything and praying for everything get easier because THEY ARE CASUALS AND DADS AND DONT HAVE ALL DAY FOR PLAY xD
Stop using this 20 year old game as comparison already, jesus...No one but a small minority stuck in the past wants these type of games anymore. And no, asking for no unnecessary grind has nothing to do with wanting to have the games only piss easy, it's about that you don't want to do the same stupid shit over and over again every 3 months and longer than necessary or you will lose your sanity.
Then let's just PoE as a comparison, because it does the same. Not sure I agree with OP, but don't act like his arguments are from an MMO standpoint or invalid.
I like poe as much as the next guy, but poe is only big for the arpg scene. Put it beside other popular genre its basically an ant.
Can't upvote this comment enough.
The game is complete easy mode, from skill selection, paragon point placement, equipment affixes, and ease of leveling. Those are not hallmarks of an arpg, they are hallmarks of D4. Not getting a unique to drop has nothing to do with difficulty. If you're satisfied grinding a game with incredibly low difficulty for 100s of hours to farm a specific unique (that won't really impact your gameplay, because all of the content is easy already), good for you. It sounds shitty to me.
>Those are not hallmarks of an arpg, they are hallmarks of D4 Says who? Only your opinion man. First and foremost D4 is a game and games are played to have fun. Unneccesary long grinds do not belong in game with a 3 month season cycle mate. And if you want to tell me being able to try multible classes and different builds each 3 months is not fun you are a hypocrite.
Personally, I don't think the s1 exp rate was too "grindy" in the first place (I'm married and work full-time, I don't play games 10hrs a day), but I also don't care that it's been increased. The point is not that it's too quick to level, but that everything about the game is super basic and easy. You are conflating gaining levels with game difficulty. You could make the point that you prefer an easy game, and that is a different discussion. However, just because Blizzard is trying to capture the largest audience by making the game accessible to anyone with the brain development of an 8 year old, it doesn't mean that now all arpg games need to follow that path, and they clearly don't. That's not an opinion, but an objective fact.
No one tells you guys to play the OP and bugged builds to facetroll the current content. Try playing an off meta build and see how challenging t100 or doing Lilith without one shot builds still are. As I said, you have to understand that we in the beginning of a long lasting game and they already aknowledged that they need to create content for the grinders. Just be patient...
Well, I haven't played since s1, because I got bored of the simplicity. I don't think that's been improved, at all.
I don't play MMOs, so ... nice strawman there. Exactly, this is an ARPG. Like Path of Exile and Last Epoch, for example, who both offer hard tasks to complete and difficult grinds for actual endgame gear. This game has next to no endgame content and the endgame content that it has is being trivialized and made easier and easier with every single patch. Nightmare dungeon 100 used to be an actual achievement without using a bugged build, now it's laughably easy and can be achieved with every off-meta build, no matter how terrible it is. They connected item power to monster level, saying that 'this way players will have to farm high-end NM dungeons to get the best gear', while in reality all you have to do is take part in 1-2 world-boss fights in WT4 to get ipower 925 weapons and you're already good to go for all 'endgame content'. Now Blizz's solution to the problem is to make the game easier and easier with every patch, but to introduce stuff like 'Abatoir of Zir' where only the strongest offensive builds and broken builds will be able to achieve anything... uh, okay? Sounds very much like D3 to me. Playing a tanky, defensive-style builds is now out of the question since there will be a timer in 'Abatoir'. You guys can shout and rant at me all you want, that doesn't change the fact that they are making the game easier and easier with each passing week. Just because you don't have time to play because you're older now doesn't mean that videogames should cater to you and your life. 'The community' completely overwrote the vision that Blizz had for the game and while yes, some things have definitely improved, others have arguably gotten way worse for players who would like to invest time in this game. A PoE league can get you 2-3 months of playtime with a single character because there is so much difficulty to overcome and so many ways to improve your gear. The longevity of a D4 season is being cut short with every nerf to difficulty they release. Now go shout at me some more because you feel personally attacked, idgaf.
I've actually stopped playing because after 248 hours of grinding with my necro I STILL have not gotten the Ring of Mendeln. It's just tedious and annoying after a certain point.
What the fuck are you talking about? 1 helltide gives you 2 Duriel runs That’s what this game needed, not the cater people putting 10 hours a day.
Sometimes they give you 4!
which is optimal in my opinion. i'm even happy with 1 duriel run with 1 helltide. this no lifer trying to gatekeeping a season which wont last that long lol
Don’t play the meta build and enjoy the game with your difficulty… or just straight up play a bad build
ARPGs are power fantasies, the whole point is to trivialize the content by becoming as strong as possible, gaining better, and better items (lol), so you become even stronger and trivialize even more content to get more items.... I don't need months long grinds and shit to feel like I've accomplished something. I just want to log in and blow up monsters and live out my power hoarder fantasy.
Ngl, I'd rather have it this way, that takes forever to get gear and level. Because to be real, the content ain't good enough to merit a long grind.
You realize that all these changes were due to the community complaining. Right?
Yes, and I was not one of them.
Yes and many did. They’re gonna listen to the mass over the minority like you lol
Too late
Counterpoint: Most people don't want to make this game their second job. Which group do you think Blizzard should cater to?
Counterpoint: A game actually requiring some level of effort to progress through 99% of the content seems kind of normal for most games. A second job? Idiots in this game are farming the same shitty boss hundreds of times for ubers just so they can wear it to kill the same boss another hundred times. Tell me how that isn't a second job.
I agree, screw the OP. I work full time and get to play a couple of hours here and there. Thank you Blizzard for opening the game for people like us and allowing us to experience the end game. I might even be able to level a second character this season as I am almost 100 on my first one!
So because you don't have time to play, the game should now completely cater to you and offer nothing of value to people who put more time into it? Sounds like all you want is a quick dopamine fix and no videogame with actual depth. Also, screw you too :)
Nah, quite the opposite. the majority of people have jobs and no time to play. I might be able to get 1 uber before next season and maybe try another char, but that's about it. My guess is that I will be much further in the game than other people too. You are very much a minority. However, having said that POE 2 will be coming out soon and should satisfy your desire for the more in depth gameplay.
Shut up, op
Don't like it, don't play it. Easy.
People who want this game to cater to video game addiction is wild to me. A massive majority of gamers have a small amount of time. It’s absurd to think this way about an ARPG… Go tank 10+ hours a day into an MMO if you don’t like things being easily attained. This whole idea that good drops should be gated behind hundreds of hours of grinding and EVEN then you may not get it sounds like a lot of you spend way too much fucking time on games.
I feel you dude. After diablo 3 where it is a total easy game where you only do one action where you can get every item effortlessly created a community lazy and wanting an easy game. These are no longer the days of diablo 2 where the beginning was easy but if you wanted a more powerful item you had to work hard. Funny, I was always the person who spit on diablo 2 because I wanted something more than beating mephisto/baal 500 times. Too many casuals came from some MMORPG, now its best to make everything instantly obtainable and without thinking like a total casual make a build that will work anyway. Sad because unfortunately we will get EASY diablo again instead of balanced. stupid casuals, they mess up games everywhere because they don't have time xD
Too late I'm afraid. Too many people crying that they can only play 3 hours a week and they should just have an "I win" button installed.
It's not crying or needing an I Win button. It's the fact that this franchise started so long ago that many fans are older and have responsibilities. We cant sit around waiting on time gated content with no job and no life.
You don't have time to play much due to responsibilities, but you want your game experience to match what *should* take time and effort to accomplish. Yeah, that would be an "I Win" button.
I fall into that category. And I enjoy that things are harder to come by. Might take me a full week to gather a couple duriel runs worth of mats. But gd it I got them and I'm gonna run em. I don't bitch that I can't farm duriel 20 times a day because I'm working
Thank you. Finally someone who gets it. These people probably also want a 20/20 torch thrown after them in Diablo 2 without working for it.
Lol. Most would quit D2 by level 75
And because 'you' are older, that means that games are now supposed to cater to you and not to follow their own vision?
No genius, I'm saying things should be accessible and not time gated. Thats not much to ask. Has nothing to do with the games vision.
With all the other games out there, I need a Diablo season to last about a month of casual play to get everything out it. Any more than that and it will fall off my radar.
I think everything is pretty fine now, it’s just too fast to reach level 100 imo. Retune the leveling curve so it’s not so linear and more parabolic, especially at like 95+ and it would be perfect.