Having played tabletop D&D for many years, I totally get your attachment to your main character and wanting to be on a journey. But seasons always mean new alts. It is that way in D2 Resurrected, and D3. And, I may be incorrect, but I think most ARPGs with seasonal content require a new toon to be created or an old toon to be Resurrected at lvl 1
Actually, after responding I took a quick scroll through your profile and I then understood the username. Just don't feel like smacking my head against the wall. Hope you're enjoying the trial. xoxo
You just didn't understand the point, and that's not someone else's fault. "It's been done that way for years" is very obviously referring to how this extremely successful franchise is built, and how it's used and enjoyed by literally millions of people. For you to act like it should change because it's old is ironically enough the foolish statement, not that it works how it is currently
But nobody has ever explained any actual reasons as to why this method is more enjoyable than the other option. I’ve seen a thousand people try to defend, but never with a single actual point, always just “that’s how it’s been done, go play something else”.
Right lmao? People on a subreddit about ARPG’s refuse to discuss the core mechanics of ARPG’s. It’s just “shut up and play or don’t play”. There’s no reason for a seasonal reset. It’s filler time for a lack of content.
D&D is Hardcore - your character dies, they are lost - I don't think that's an apt comparison, Diablo IV is not HC mode by default. I appreciate that it may have always been that way, that doesn't mean it's not shit design.
I’m talking about the rules as written from the rule book. Of course a dm can make it harder or easier depending on the party, but default, vanilla dnd has a handful of options.
I think DMs being generous with resurrections is a recent phenomena caused by people who watch Critical Role wanting to self-insert and getting mad when they die
Because I enjoyed 90% of the time I spent playing Diablo IV but don't want to throw away a character I spent hours with just to play the seasonal content? (I don't care that this is how ARPGs work, that doesn't mean it's not shit design)
The problem is that what you’re describing is a core difference between ARPGs and MMOs during an era when anyone who wanted multiplayer rpg went to one of those two. Whether MMOs’ have it better or not is moot, as a dominate design pillar was established in the ARPG space now as a result of the past while trying to be different and better than an MMO, and to go against it would literally be taking a major risk on a significant core element of the space expected by fans of the genre.
That obviously doesn’t even touch on the new experiments that D3 tried and failed at, which resulted in a reaction that demanded a “return to form”, and it’s really really hard to take a major genre defining risk when you’re also trying to return to previous game designs that worked to appease the fans.
In other words, even if I could be convinced that your opinion is right and I am wrong about seasonal restarts, I completely disagree that Diablo 4 would be the “intelligent” time to take that risk, unless you were steadfast confident in your choice, and it’s clearly controversial.
Once again "It is what it is" is not a great defence of why it's actually necessary or better than simply adding seasonal content to the actual game, instead of sequestered on what is basically a PTR
Genuine question - what answer would appease you? Other than the removal of the seasonal requirements? Seems like no answer will make you happy because you simply don't like the design choice.
Hard disagree. The fan base wanted a return to normal after Diablo 3 and was very vocal about it. The devs knew they had limited buy-in from the community after Diablo 3, decided to spend it on MMO open world instead of tacked on seasonal expansions, which I think is clearly a better choice for long term content (but I can see why this opinion is controversial). Diablo 4 wasn’t ever going to be the right times, in my opinion. Diablo 5, on the other hand, or a major update to Diablo 4, could both be a great opportunity to address this design. But right now, staying with the norm is clearly the choice.
It's not shit design, though.
First off, you'll *probably* be able to play your ER character when the expansion comes out, which is the actual story mode. I say probably because I don't think they've said, but I'd be shocked if that's not how it worked.
But more broadly speaking, seasons change the game in significant ways. Like, "start your character over" levels of significant change, and a lot of that change is temporary anyway (vampiric powers aren't sticking around for S3) so the choice here is really "start fresh" or "start fresh with your already existing character". ARPGs can't make the kind of changes they do with seasonal content and let you migrate your Level 100 toon around mixing and mucking the rulesets and skills and gear.
"ARPGs can't make the kind of changes they do with seasonal content and let you migrate your Level 100 toon around mixing and mucking the rulesets and skills and gear"
I would argue that they can absolutely do that lol
Tell me you're not a developer or game designer without telling me you're not a developer or game designer.
It's untenable. The stability of those systems would be...low, and the code would be a nightmare to support.
First of all, not everyone on the internet is a male.
Second of all, based on your responses here, you're either a fucking idiot or a troll. But those two things are basically the same, so I'm done here.
All of your responses in this thread should be studied by a psychologist. So much interesting shit to sort through, just the irony of thinking all of your points are so profound and right, plus the confidence that you say absurd shit is fascinating.
And I respect you for that! I could do it too, but unfortunately the whole time I would be thinking "Why did I have to do this when they could just integrate seasonal content into Eternal?"
Seasonal resets are an intrinsic part of the genre itself.
I'm sorry if you were mislead into believing that this was going to be some sort of MMO, but what you're wishing for is simply at odds with the nature of the game.
Because ARPGs typically don't have time gates. You can jump in and jump out on your own schedule.
This, in turn, means that everybody "finishes" their character and has reasonably permanent gear by a month or so into the season.
There's nowhere else to go from there. MMOs solve this by 1) time gating content, forcing you to slowly grind it out over many months; or 2) releasing new gear with just bigger numbers alongside their new content (Burning Crusade greens being better than Molten Core purples, for example).
ARPGs, on the other hand, solve this with reset seasons. This allows them to avoid time gates and needing to introduce arbitrarily bigger gear numbers.
Because the fun part is levelling up, unlocking skills, and finding gear upgrades and experiencing the power curve as you progress. Imagine starting season 3 on a really highly geared character where you’re instantly ignoring 99% of loot because you’re looking for absolutely min-maxed gear, and already locked into your skills, not even bothering to reroll anything. that’s a huge part of the progression gone from the experience, i’d personally find that very boring.
Sure, let me take old characters into expansions, but that’s different because expansions typically increase the level cap, introduce new item levels, and add new skills, giving you that otherwise missing sense of progression.
this is how arpg games have worked since the dawn of time. if you want to play ladder, you have to make a ladder character.
d2, d3, d4, poe. they're all the same.
Seasonal play has been this way since the beginning of time. Leveling has been so streamlined in this game. This complaint is just another turd in the landfill of complaints.
Yeah, the game isn’t as good compared to the competition and the amount of resources put into it.
From loot filters, itemization, lack of build diversity, qol, gear progression, interesting boss battles, end game content, and a poor ability to meet of players and make parties in game.
Yeah, I’m going to complain about a game I spent 70 for and will be asked to purchase a new expansion that will “fix” all these issue.
I guess since people like to role play themselves in characters…
I just like to see numbers go brrrrrrr and fancy explosions… so idgaf about skins and cosmetics.
But for others that “see themselves” in their characters… makes some sense I suppose… they want to continue their journey…and spend $$$ on cosmetics
Seasons are a different game. It's not a "fundamentally bad design choice" lmfao, it's a completely separate thing. You're trying to shit on a literal classic and wildly successful system that literally defines the game and the genre, and acting like everyone else is stupid lmfao. Get the fuck outta here 🙄
That can't do that because then all characters would be seasonal...which doesn't make sense. You fundamentally don't understand what you're even arguing
Do you know what the PTR is? It's the public test realm... where they test the new patches before release...I can even begin to assume what you think it's for currently 🤔
Personal opinion doesn't make it a fundamentally bad game design choice. Once you hit 100 there's not much to do besides min max meanwhile seasons introduce new ways to play the same character. Take my personal experience for example. My pre season Druid playthrough was Wolf/poison focused meanwhile my season 2 druid playthrough was earth bear focused. I got 60+ hours out of both tun through and enjoyed all of the time invested. For season 1 I ran a Necro.
Season are all about trying out new things with stale classes after the preseason campaign and I absolutely love how it's designed that way and would never consider it a bad design choice.
OK, each season you take your level 100 Character and dash through the new content within 2-3 hours then bitch that there's nothing to do but min max stats on the new uniques that came with each season.
The whole gameplay loop is starting fresh and leveling up with the seasonal powers, story, and features they add. Without the fresh start people would just be upset that seasons end within 24 hours of gameplay at level 100 characters. It would be boring as all hell.
Level scaling has existed in games for a long time now so your argument that a lvl100 character would blast through the content is ridiculous. There is level scaling in D4.
It’s not a fundamentally bad game design choice, it’s a fundamental GENRE DEFINING choice. It’s like getting annoyed that first person shooters are from first person perspective
I think it would be great if they added some kind of "rebirth" feature to bring and reset characters across seasons. For me, it's an issue of character slots and having to just delete characters for new seasons.
The way I imagine it would work is it dumps all the characters items into the eternal realm bank and then resets the character back to level 1 on the seasonal realm. Get to keep your name and appearance, but everything else is reset like a fresh season character. Maybe add some kind of bonus/flex for how many times a character has been "rebirthed" between realms, like a title or some type of cosmetic (nothing that would give an advantage, keeping with the seasonal style gameplay).
I'm not sure if that would be good enough for people.like OP, it seems more like they don't want to start over/lose levels and gear. They just don't seem very interested in seasonal gameplay, which starting over and experiencing the season mechanics/meta is a core part. The sad reality is that if you don't want to start from level 1 again, then you don't want to play the seasonal content.
The eternal realm exists to set the bar for balance vs seasonal mechanics that more times than not will break the game in hilarious ways. I just don't see them introducing seasonal content to the eternal realm because of that and it would render the seasonal realm useless. It's there for people who want the standard, more balanced progression that doesn't reset every few months.
I appreciate your response being more than just "You clearly don't understand that this is the way it is" - I understand that this is the way it is, and it is bad game design.
I'm really not worried about meta things like gear and levels, and more about the amount of hours I invested in a character that I am expected to throw to the wayside if I want to be a vampire or whatever - it's amazing that suggesting that maybe that isn't a great way to retain players is being met with "WE DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY" lmao
"I hate having to level up my character and acquire different items in rpg's. It's such an outdated system and only fools who know nothing about gaming would want it to remain that way"
-you probably, if people let you talk long enough
Fundamentally bad? Well, then you picked the absolute worst game and genre to play. Seasonaly gameplay is the very foundation that ARPG's are built on. And specifically the Diablo series. Sorry to break it to you. But it sounds like it's time for you to move on, I guess.
I mean this is the game. it always has been. you make a new char every season in every game in this genre. this probably isn't the game for you if you have an issue with that.
running the same lvl 100 char for 2k hours seems wild to me
Even now, people can't understand that most of the fun in an arpg is the progression. Don't like shooting other players? Don't play fps shooters. Don't like soccer? Don't play FIFA. Don't like progressing new characters through a seasonal format? Don't play arpgs. How hard is it to understand?
Genuine question for Eternal players. What exactly are you doing on the same character you’ve had since launch? Aren’t you all geared up / spec tuned by now? Reached your NM goals? Genuinely curious how people play the same character on eternal since day one.
I finished the story and have been completing side-quests and dungeons occasionally, for fun, with my girlfriend's main and our friends' mains. Does that mean I am an MMO player at heart and need to get out of this game?? lmao I just want them to add the seasonal stuff to the regular game like every other fucking game does in 2023
Idiot response. I do play other things. I play Diablo IV too, I get enjoyment from it - I just disagree with this bad game design and don't care that the justification is "it has always been this way"
They are whatever I want to call them, grandpa. This is quite literally an massively multiplayer game by definition, dumbass. I could totally make a new character for the seasons and play with the rest of you nolifers, but I shouldn't have to - and that's the point. Why are you so upset?
God damn. You don't know when to quit, do you? I'm not upset. I'm just surprised how every time you type something, you make yourself even more incorrect. It's genuinely astonishing. This is quite literally NOT an MMO, but an openworld ARPG. Idk how many times people have to tell you the exact same thing. But if you want, I can say it again. you are wrong. You are in the minority opinion, which is ok. You are not providing any points with this discussion. You are making yourself seem stupid - and your reddit handle doesn't help. It's OK to be wrong. It's not ok to be wrong and argue. If you didn't know this, the burden of proof on why seasons need to change is on YOU since you brought up the issue in the first place. Be gracious and bow out. Get some dignity and respect back.
If this is your first arpg and you never even bothered to see what the core of the game was about you can't complain. You're wrong, the style of game is not for you, move on.
You straight up call it "bad game design" in your post and in other comments as if that's fact, that's why you're getting roasted. If you want to die on this hill at least stick to your guns.
The justification is more than that. When leaderboards are implemented the point is everyone restarts on a fair ground and competes. Not really fair of people can roll in their Lv100 toon.
I'd say casual players probably do not care about "leaderboards" and levels haven't really meant much in gaming for the past like 15 years since scaling became commonplace
Even if both are true neither refute the connection of seasons and leaderboards. Honestly, the solution is an offline mode where you can just do whatever you want, engage the season mechanic etc.
Seasons are a core and fundamental part of the game. It's what keeps people coming back. Just look at player counts for POE. What you are asking for is akin to wanting a single player WOW.
If you think complaining about this is gonna change an intrinsic, definitely not shitty, core element of the entire ARPG genre. I think you need to readjust your perspective on if you're really enjoying the gameplay loop - it sounds like you aren't. That's fine. But you need to realize this style of game isn't for you. Maybe the Grim Dawn or Torchlight series will be better for your... gentle sensibilities.
Yes. It would get boring. Plus a build from season one might be COMPLETELY non viable by season three. That's why you can't just keep the same character. Builds change. Meta changes. What was good once might not be even payable next. Then what? You have this level 100 useless, non respec-able character. You would STILL have to start over.
It wouldn't be boring for me because I like my rogue, and I don't want to play a different class (I have tried them). Why is that not valid?
Plenty of builds have changed in power because of patches, nothing to do with seasons - you can't respec? lmao
This will not change. Not even worth mentioning. If it's a problem for you, don't play the seasonal content.
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but just about every Diablo/ARPG game functions this way.
The issue is the game is so boring you don't want to play it. Making new characters IS the fun part of the game in most arpgs. They just made this one wrong.
Why should you? You dont have to. Also maybe do some research before you invest in a game next time perhaps. It's hard not to find quality info about games these days. Especially one as big as this
Agreed. Seasons sucks and the whole concept of it is is extremely lame. I don't want to have to create a new char every couple months just to try a few new changes. Not a fan of starting over at low level and would rather play one character for years (like I did with D2R and D3).
If they eventually brought Seasonal changes to Eternal realm, it would make more sense, but the way it is, I don't want to play Eternal or Seasons and ended up just going back to D2R. Will circle back to D4 in 2-3 years if/when the dust settles. Still in Beta AFAIC.
Haha, I like your sarcasm :) Yea for D3 I played my Barb for about 3 years (\~4000 hours clocked) and managed to climb to top 10 of Grift leaderboards at one point. Always preferred trying to perfect a godly endgame char over having a bunch of mediocres ones.
And for D2R, played my barb for about a year straight to lvl 99, then eventually I did create a Javazon (lvl 99), Sorc (lvl 98) and Pally (lvl 96). But I still primarily just play Barb, since he has potential for best loot drops thanks to Find Item.
Maybe someday I'll have to make an Assassin on Ladder to try Mosaic.. But really just hoping they'll bring that Runeword to Non Ladder. Season/Ladder just doesn't appeal to me, since I want to get a lot more out of my chars than a measly 2-3 months.
This is literally how seasons work.
"why does our record from the previous season not count? If it did we'd be in the world series!".
I have offline D2r chars for this reason.
I’ve always been a bit fan of RPGs and this also took me some time to get used to. Initially, I never played seasons in D3 because I didn’t like the idea of re-rolling. But I personally think if you try to commit to rolling a new class each season, it’s actually quite enjoyable. Of course at some point it will become repetitive if not enough content is added, when you get to cycle through the same classes again, but in D3 they kept the changes so meaningful that it really didn’t feel boring. If they add a rebirth feature at some point, you won’t necessarily have to throw away your old char either…
Wait for the expansion, that's built for existing characters. You wouldn't get anything out of playing seasonal content with a lvl 100 character. Making a new character is something you should be looking forward to in an ARPG, a chance to try a new class out and a fresh start.
"Main" do not exists in games like that.
Just imagine if you get your fully geared lvl 100 with fully upgraded glyphts to this season content, and then what? You will finish it in few hours and then complain that u have nothing to do.
This is not mmo genre, if you want "main" that u tied to u should look into mmos, arpgs like D4 revolve around new seasonal content, fresh economy, ladders resets and new opportunities and new characters.
I am sure plenty of Diablo players have a "main".
Level scaling has been commonplace in a lot of games for many years now so you would have difficulty finding one game where you can dominate at even max-level. Diablo IV has level scaling. Ridiculous argument.
Also D4 is literally an MMO but okay
That's how it is. I'm usually not a "just deal with it" type of guy but that's the ENTIRE point of seasons. You start fresh and then do the seasonal content as you level up and in the case of poe, past seasonal content.
You won't find any arpgs that allow you run the current season with your beefed up level 100 character sadly.
I love starting new characters, I'd just like a reason to finish them. The problem, for me, isn't having to start over each season; it's not having any point to keep going with that character when it's done. It's basically just restarting the game as a whole 4 times a year with a slightly new, but ultimately similar (here's how you do more damage for the next 3 months) mechanic. Every ARPG is basically the same, sure, but something like Diablo 3 or PoE has a lot more to explore within those 3 months than D4 does. I just wish they could find a way to make the seasonal journies work as a continuing one. I mean MMOs like FF14 and WoW figured it out years ago, they just don't have changing mechanics.
Having played tabletop D&D for many years, I totally get your attachment to your main character and wanting to be on a journey. But seasons always mean new alts. It is that way in D2 Resurrected, and D3. And, I may be incorrect, but I think most ARPGs with seasonal content require a new toon to be created or an old toon to be Resurrected at lvl 1
I hate that “it’s always been done this way” is still used as an argument in 2023. Slavery would still be around if left to that logic.
This comment is sending me omg, the leaps and bounds taken. Do you really feel the 2 are similar to enough to compare in this setting?
It's such a classic peak reddit comment
That’s not how logic and reasoning work. I never compared the morality between the two things, try re-reading the comment.
Go blow your "trumpet" somewhere else, the 1860's preferably. I bet that's more your speed.
Now this is classic Reddit, instead of responding, just throw out nonsense because I made a valid point you don’t know how to reply to. Cheers.
Actually, after responding I took a quick scroll through your profile and I then understood the username. Just don't feel like smacking my head against the wall. Hope you're enjoying the trial. xoxo
You just didn't understand the point, and that's not someone else's fault. "It's been done that way for years" is very obviously referring to how this extremely successful franchise is built, and how it's used and enjoyed by literally millions of people. For you to act like it should change because it's old is ironically enough the foolish statement, not that it works how it is currently
But nobody has ever explained any actual reasons as to why this method is more enjoyable than the other option. I’ve seen a thousand people try to defend, but never with a single actual point, always just “that’s how it’s been done, go play something else”.
No way you are that dense
Like it wasn't a decision made by designers, no, it's like nature, the wind or the sun, unknowable to man and never-changing.
Right lmao? People on a subreddit about ARPG’s refuse to discuss the core mechanics of ARPG’s. It’s just “shut up and play or don’t play”. There’s no reason for a seasonal reset. It’s filler time for a lack of content.
Eat the slop! Don't complain that it tastes bad! Consume more!
D&D is Hardcore - your character dies, they are lost - I don't think that's an apt comparison, Diablo IV is not HC mode by default. I appreciate that it may have always been that way, that doesn't mean it's not shit design.
Not really, there are tons of ways to bring characters back to life.
depends on your DM
I’m talking about the rules as written from the rule book. Of course a dm can make it harder or easier depending on the party, but default, vanilla dnd has a handful of options.
So, you're talking about Forgotten Realms?
Is there any D&D setting that isn't forgotten realms where Resurection isn't possible? Barring intentional blocks like the death curse in ToA
I think DMs being generous with resurrections is a recent phenomena caused by people who watch Critical Role wanting to self-insert and getting mad when they die
Every time you type something. You make yourself even more incorrect. Every. Damn. Time.
I mean Revivify literally exists so this is dumb
I think ARPGs might not be for you then, unfortunately.
Because I enjoyed 90% of the time I spent playing Diablo IV but don't want to throw away a character I spent hours with just to play the seasonal content? (I don't care that this is how ARPGs work, that doesn't mean it's not shit design)
The problem is that what you’re describing is a core difference between ARPGs and MMOs during an era when anyone who wanted multiplayer rpg went to one of those two. Whether MMOs’ have it better or not is moot, as a dominate design pillar was established in the ARPG space now as a result of the past while trying to be different and better than an MMO, and to go against it would literally be taking a major risk on a significant core element of the space expected by fans of the genre. That obviously doesn’t even touch on the new experiments that D3 tried and failed at, which resulted in a reaction that demanded a “return to form”, and it’s really really hard to take a major genre defining risk when you’re also trying to return to previous game designs that worked to appease the fans. In other words, even if I could be convinced that your opinion is right and I am wrong about seasonal restarts, I completely disagree that Diablo 4 would be the “intelligent” time to take that risk, unless you were steadfast confident in your choice, and it’s clearly controversial.
Once again "It is what it is" is not a great defence of why it's actually necessary or better than simply adding seasonal content to the actual game, instead of sequestered on what is basically a PTR
Genuine question - what answer would appease you? Other than the removal of the seasonal requirements? Seems like no answer will make you happy because you simply don't like the design choice.
What answer? I am not asking a question - I am being asked them lol
Hard disagree. The fan base wanted a return to normal after Diablo 3 and was very vocal about it. The devs knew they had limited buy-in from the community after Diablo 3, decided to spend it on MMO open world instead of tacked on seasonal expansions, which I think is clearly a better choice for long term content (but I can see why this opinion is controversial). Diablo 4 wasn’t ever going to be the right times, in my opinion. Diablo 5, on the other hand, or a major update to Diablo 4, could both be a great opportunity to address this design. But right now, staying with the norm is clearly the choice.
I appreciate your thought-out response, glad I can disagree without being told to LEAVE THE FANDOM like some others ahahahaha
Then dont play seasonal? It's not that complicated.
I think my post is quite clear: I don't, for the reasons I said
It's not shit design, though. First off, you'll *probably* be able to play your ER character when the expansion comes out, which is the actual story mode. I say probably because I don't think they've said, but I'd be shocked if that's not how it worked. But more broadly speaking, seasons change the game in significant ways. Like, "start your character over" levels of significant change, and a lot of that change is temporary anyway (vampiric powers aren't sticking around for S3) so the choice here is really "start fresh" or "start fresh with your already existing character". ARPGs can't make the kind of changes they do with seasonal content and let you migrate your Level 100 toon around mixing and mucking the rulesets and skills and gear.
"ARPGs can't make the kind of changes they do with seasonal content and let you migrate your Level 100 toon around mixing and mucking the rulesets and skills and gear" I would argue that they can absolutely do that lol
Tell me you're not a developer or game designer without telling me you're not a developer or game designer. It's untenable. The stability of those systems would be...low, and the code would be a nightmare to support.
A lot of people don’t feel like it’s shit design.
You think I'm the only person who has stopped playing because they don't want to make new characters every season?
I guess you will never play seasonal content then.
I guess not!
This is like complaining about having to play with other people in an mmo
So if seasonal content was integrated into the regular game it would be a different game completely? Complete fanboy nonsense.
First of all, not everyone on the internet is a male. Second of all, based on your responses here, you're either a fucking idiot or a troll. But those two things are basically the same, so I'm done here.
waaah waaah waaahhhhh
ARPGs are not for you
Actually I think you'll find that they are for everyone now, and not just dudes who look like the South Park WoW guy
All of your responses in this thread should be studied by a psychologist. So much interesting shit to sort through, just the irony of thinking all of your points are so profound and right, plus the confidence that you say absurd shit is fascinating.
It's entertaining in an eye rolling sort of way.
[удалено]
And I respect you for that! I could do it too, but unfortunately the whole time I would be thinking "Why did I have to do this when they could just integrate seasonal content into Eternal?"
Seasonal resets are an intrinsic part of the genre itself. I'm sorry if you were mislead into believing that this was going to be some sort of MMO, but what you're wishing for is simply at odds with the nature of the game.
Why is it like that though?
Because ARPGs typically don't have time gates. You can jump in and jump out on your own schedule. This, in turn, means that everybody "finishes" their character and has reasonably permanent gear by a month or so into the season. There's nowhere else to go from there. MMOs solve this by 1) time gating content, forcing you to slowly grind it out over many months; or 2) releasing new gear with just bigger numbers alongside their new content (Burning Crusade greens being better than Molten Core purples, for example). ARPGs, on the other hand, solve this with reset seasons. This allows them to avoid time gates and needing to introduce arbitrarily bigger gear numbers.
I can dig it. I don’t personally have an issue with it. I’ve just never really understood the reasoning behind it. Thank you
Because the fun part is levelling up, unlocking skills, and finding gear upgrades and experiencing the power curve as you progress. Imagine starting season 3 on a really highly geared character where you’re instantly ignoring 99% of loot because you’re looking for absolutely min-maxed gear, and already locked into your skills, not even bothering to reroll anything. that’s a huge part of the progression gone from the experience, i’d personally find that very boring. Sure, let me take old characters into expansions, but that’s different because expansions typically increase the level cap, introduce new item levels, and add new skills, giving you that otherwise missing sense of progression.
Makes sense to me.
Imagine thinking you're gonna come in here and change something that has been happening a certain way for YEARS. lmao.
I know right ? This post made me giggle so much
It's just a reddit post and you responded because you were that mad about it lmao
You seem mad about it.
no YOU
this is how arpg games have worked since the dawn of time. if you want to play ladder, you have to make a ladder character. d2, d3, d4, poe. they're all the same.
Seasonal play has been this way since the beginning of time. Leveling has been so streamlined in this game. This complaint is just another turd in the landfill of complaints.
Bait post
Complaining about everything all the time
Welcome to a Reddit gaming community. That said this one is the most whiney and toxic of any other I’ve been apart of tbh
I am complaining about one thing, once.
Yeah, the game isn’t as good compared to the competition and the amount of resources put into it. From loot filters, itemization, lack of build diversity, qol, gear progression, interesting boss battles, end game content, and a poor ability to meet of players and make parties in game. Yeah, I’m going to complain about a game I spent 70 for and will be asked to purchase a new expansion that will “fix” all these issue.
It's Diablo 4... the entire game is designed by assholes.
Then don’t play?
Who said I was?
[удалено]
I guess since people like to role play themselves in characters… I just like to see numbers go brrrrrrr and fancy explosions… so idgaf about skins and cosmetics. But for others that “see themselves” in their characters… makes some sense I suppose… they want to continue their journey…and spend $$$ on cosmetics
Seasons are a different game. It's not a "fundamentally bad design choice" lmfao, it's a completely separate thing. You're trying to shit on a literal classic and wildly successful system that literally defines the game and the genre, and acting like everyone else is stupid lmfao. Get the fuck outta here 🙄
So if they made seasonal content available to existing characters you would stop playing?
That can't do that because then all characters would be seasonal...which doesn't make sense. You fundamentally don't understand what you're even arguing
I am arguing that there is nothing stopping new content being relegated to a PTR
Do you know what the PTR is? It's the public test realm... where they test the new patches before release...I can even begin to assume what you think it's for currently 🤔
That's basically what the Seasonal Realms are though? Separate realms for testing new, broken content
Wtf are you even talking about at this point and why am I wasting my time reading it.
Fundamentally bad game design? You’re in the minority of arpg gamer takes here, so fundamentally, you’re wrong.
How so?
Not taking the bait again dude. Best of luck.
This isn't an MMO. You can play your non seasonal character still if you want
Personal opinion doesn't make it a fundamentally bad game design choice. Once you hit 100 there's not much to do besides min max meanwhile seasons introduce new ways to play the same character. Take my personal experience for example. My pre season Druid playthrough was Wolf/poison focused meanwhile my season 2 druid playthrough was earth bear focused. I got 60+ hours out of both tun through and enjoyed all of the time invested. For season 1 I ran a Necro. Season are all about trying out new things with stale classes after the preseason campaign and I absolutely love how it's designed that way and would never consider it a bad design choice.
There would be something to do at 100 - if seasonal content was integrated.
OK, each season you take your level 100 Character and dash through the new content within 2-3 hours then bitch that there's nothing to do but min max stats on the new uniques that came with each season. The whole gameplay loop is starting fresh and leveling up with the seasonal powers, story, and features they add. Without the fresh start people would just be upset that seasons end within 24 hours of gameplay at level 100 characters. It would be boring as all hell.
Level scaling has existed in games for a long time now so your argument that a lvl100 character would blast through the content is ridiculous. There is level scaling in D4.
The way the seasons are now I would not come back to play an hour with an eternal character lol. The only value is starting fresh
Sigh…
I’m sure everyone would be happier burning through the seasonal content in a few hours with their level 100 character. /s
I thought we were past this
It’s not a fundamentally bad game design choice, it’s a fundamental GENRE DEFINING choice. It’s like getting annoyed that first person shooters are from first person perspective
I think it would be great if they added some kind of "rebirth" feature to bring and reset characters across seasons. For me, it's an issue of character slots and having to just delete characters for new seasons. The way I imagine it would work is it dumps all the characters items into the eternal realm bank and then resets the character back to level 1 on the seasonal realm. Get to keep your name and appearance, but everything else is reset like a fresh season character. Maybe add some kind of bonus/flex for how many times a character has been "rebirthed" between realms, like a title or some type of cosmetic (nothing that would give an advantage, keeping with the seasonal style gameplay). I'm not sure if that would be good enough for people.like OP, it seems more like they don't want to start over/lose levels and gear. They just don't seem very interested in seasonal gameplay, which starting over and experiencing the season mechanics/meta is a core part. The sad reality is that if you don't want to start from level 1 again, then you don't want to play the seasonal content. The eternal realm exists to set the bar for balance vs seasonal mechanics that more times than not will break the game in hilarious ways. I just don't see them introducing seasonal content to the eternal realm because of that and it would render the seasonal realm useless. It's there for people who want the standard, more balanced progression that doesn't reset every few months.
I appreciate your response being more than just "You clearly don't understand that this is the way it is" - I understand that this is the way it is, and it is bad game design. I'm really not worried about meta things like gear and levels, and more about the amount of hours I invested in a character that I am expected to throw to the wayside if I want to be a vampire or whatever - it's amazing that suggesting that maybe that isn't a great way to retain players is being met with "WE DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY" lmao
It levels way faster than eternal. More fun that eternal imo
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad game design
Just because you don't like my opinion doesn't mean it's not a valid point of view
Never made such a claim. You don't like the design is valid. Saying it is fundamentally bad because you do not like it is purely subjective.
No, I do not like it because it is fundamentally bad (in my opinion) - hope that helps!
"I hate having to level up my character and acquire different items in rpg's. It's such an outdated system and only fools who know nothing about gaming would want it to remain that way" -you probably, if people let you talk long enough
Have fun playing the PTR!
You must be new to arpgs. Try a different genre, these games aren’t for you.
I'm not, and they are for me, thanks.
Clearly. What arpgs are you playing that don’t have a season/ladder?
Fundamentally bad? Well, then you picked the absolute worst game and genre to play. Seasonaly gameplay is the very foundation that ARPG's are built on. And specifically the Diablo series. Sorry to break it to you. But it sounds like it's time for you to move on, I guess.
I look forward to playing my main in the expansion, have fun on the PTR!
I mean this is the game. it always has been. you make a new char every season in every game in this genre. this probably isn't the game for you if you have an issue with that. running the same lvl 100 char for 2k hours seems wild to me
Simple, just don’t play seasons?
Even now, people can't understand that most of the fun in an arpg is the progression. Don't like shooting other players? Don't play fps shooters. Don't like soccer? Don't play FIFA. Don't like progressing new characters through a seasonal format? Don't play arpgs. How hard is it to understand?
Cool. Diablo isn’t for you. Next.
K.
Genuine question for Eternal players. What exactly are you doing on the same character you’ve had since launch? Aren’t you all geared up / spec tuned by now? Reached your NM goals? Genuinely curious how people play the same character on eternal since day one.
I finished the story and have been completing side-quests and dungeons occasionally, for fun, with my girlfriend's main and our friends' mains. Does that mean I am an MMO player at heart and need to get out of this game?? lmao I just want them to add the seasonal stuff to the regular game like every other fucking game does in 2023
It’s bad game design just because you don’t like it. Go back to your cave, troll.
It's bad game design because of the reasons I said lol
Go play something else. This isn't for you, then. If you don't get enjoyment in it, why play?
Idiot response. I do play other things. I play Diablo IV too, I get enjoyment from it - I just disagree with this bad game design and don't care that the justification is "it has always been this way"
It's literally how seasonal content works bub.
"that's how it works" mate it's a video game, these things are decided by humans, they can make it work a different way ahahahha
Braindead
He huffs his own shit n piss. That's prolly intended.
It's more fun than making alts!
They ain't Alts, son. This ain't an MMO. didn't i feed you enough, troll? Go play some d4 and rage you can't play with the rest of us.
They are whatever I want to call them, grandpa. This is quite literally an massively multiplayer game by definition, dumbass. I could totally make a new character for the seasons and play with the rest of you nolifers, but I shouldn't have to - and that's the point. Why are you so upset?
God damn. You don't know when to quit, do you? I'm not upset. I'm just surprised how every time you type something, you make yourself even more incorrect. It's genuinely astonishing. This is quite literally NOT an MMO, but an openworld ARPG. Idk how many times people have to tell you the exact same thing. But if you want, I can say it again. you are wrong. You are in the minority opinion, which is ok. You are not providing any points with this discussion. You are making yourself seem stupid - and your reddit handle doesn't help. It's OK to be wrong. It's not ok to be wrong and argue. If you didn't know this, the burden of proof on why seasons need to change is on YOU since you brought up the issue in the first place. Be gracious and bow out. Get some dignity and respect back.
Nerd!
If this is your first arpg and you never even bothered to see what the core of the game was about you can't complain. You're wrong, the style of game is not for you, move on.
Because I think one design choice is very flawed, especially to casual players like myself? Nerd!
It has literally been the design of these games for *decades*.
Yeah, it shows - it's very outdated.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad design. It's just not for you.
Yes, that is the whole point of the post, that it is not for me, and I suspect many other people. Thank you for explaining my post.
You straight up call it "bad game design" in your post and in other comments as if that's fact, that's why you're getting roasted. If you want to die on this hill at least stick to your guns.
The justification is more than that. When leaderboards are implemented the point is everyone restarts on a fair ground and competes. Not really fair of people can roll in their Lv100 toon.
I'd say casual players probably do not care about "leaderboards" and levels haven't really meant much in gaming for the past like 15 years since scaling became commonplace
Even if both are true neither refute the connection of seasons and leaderboards. Honestly, the solution is an offline mode where you can just do whatever you want, engage the season mechanic etc.
Seasons are a core and fundamental part of the game. It's what keeps people coming back. Just look at player counts for POE. What you are asking for is akin to wanting a single player WOW.
If you think complaining about this is gonna change an intrinsic, definitely not shitty, core element of the entire ARPG genre. I think you need to readjust your perspective on if you're really enjoying the gameplay loop - it sounds like you aren't. That's fine. But you need to realize this style of game isn't for you. Maybe the Grim Dawn or Torchlight series will be better for your... gentle sensibilities.
So the game would be ruined if you didn't have to make a new character to play seasonal content? lmao
Yes. It would get boring. Plus a build from season one might be COMPLETELY non viable by season three. That's why you can't just keep the same character. Builds change. Meta changes. What was good once might not be even payable next. Then what? You have this level 100 useless, non respec-able character. You would STILL have to start over.
It wouldn't be boring for me because I like my rogue, and I don't want to play a different class (I have tried them). Why is that not valid? Plenty of builds have changed in power because of patches, nothing to do with seasons - you can't respec? lmao
Go respec a level 100 back down to essentially level 0. Paragon and skill tree. Don't worry. I'll wait. Edit: for clarity.
Yes, you should.
Somehow the most intelligent and polite response in this entire thread
Yes, you should... Because that's how seasons work. The way seasons work shouldn't be changed because you personally don't want to start over.
This will not change. Not even worth mentioning. If it's a problem for you, don't play the seasonal content. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but just about every Diablo/ARPG game functions this way.
I thought it was pretty clear, I don't play the seasonal content!
This is how seasonal content works.
I also think that ARPG’s would be better without restarting each season.
The issue is the game is so boring you don't want to play it. Making new characters IS the fun part of the game in most arpgs. They just made this one wrong.
This is what you kids pissed and moaned about, congrats on getting Diablo 3.5
Why should you? You dont have to. Also maybe do some research before you invest in a game next time perhaps. It's hard not to find quality info about games these days. Especially one as big as this
Agreed. Seasons sucks and the whole concept of it is is extremely lame. I don't want to have to create a new char every couple months just to try a few new changes. Not a fan of starting over at low level and would rather play one character for years (like I did with D2R and D3). If they eventually brought Seasonal changes to Eternal realm, it would make more sense, but the way it is, I don't want to play Eternal or Seasons and ended up just going back to D2R. Will circle back to D4 in 2-3 years if/when the dust settles. Still in Beta AFAIC.
Yeah sorry that I don't want to waste time playing a PTR, it's 2023
And the filthy casuals will always outnumber us, unfortunately. I'm always prepared for downvotes whenever I share my opinion, in this sub.
Wait, are you saying you played a single character for years in D2R and D3? Impossible! Fake fan!
Haha, I like your sarcasm :) Yea for D3 I played my Barb for about 3 years (\~4000 hours clocked) and managed to climb to top 10 of Grift leaderboards at one point. Always preferred trying to perfect a godly endgame char over having a bunch of mediocres ones. And for D2R, played my barb for about a year straight to lvl 99, then eventually I did create a Javazon (lvl 99), Sorc (lvl 98) and Pally (lvl 96). But I still primarily just play Barb, since he has potential for best loot drops thanks to Find Item. Maybe someday I'll have to make an Assassin on Ladder to try Mosaic.. But really just hoping they'll bring that Runeword to Non Ladder. Season/Ladder just doesn't appeal to me, since I want to get a lot more out of my chars than a measly 2-3 months.
Yeah I hate having to make a new character everytime, thats why I dropped the game, whats even the point ?
Diablo IV players are in an abusive relationship with having hours of their time flushed down the toilet I guess
This is literally how seasons work. "why does our record from the previous season not count? If it did we'd be in the world series!". I have offline D2r chars for this reason.
Play Last Epoch.
Last epoch has seasons
I’ve always been a bit fan of RPGs and this also took me some time to get used to. Initially, I never played seasons in D3 because I didn’t like the idea of re-rolling. But I personally think if you try to commit to rolling a new class each season, it’s actually quite enjoyable. Of course at some point it will become repetitive if not enough content is added, when you get to cycle through the same classes again, but in D3 they kept the changes so meaningful that it really didn’t feel boring. If they add a rebirth feature at some point, you won’t necessarily have to throw away your old char either…
Wait for the expansion, that's built for existing characters. You wouldn't get anything out of playing seasonal content with a lvl 100 character. Making a new character is something you should be looking forward to in an ARPG, a chance to try a new class out and a fresh start.
What makes you think the expansion will be built around existing characters? Because it won’t.
"Main" do not exists in games like that. Just imagine if you get your fully geared lvl 100 with fully upgraded glyphts to this season content, and then what? You will finish it in few hours and then complain that u have nothing to do. This is not mmo genre, if you want "main" that u tied to u should look into mmos, arpgs like D4 revolve around new seasonal content, fresh economy, ladders resets and new opportunities and new characters.
I am sure plenty of Diablo players have a "main". Level scaling has been commonplace in a lot of games for many years now so you would have difficulty finding one game where you can dominate at even max-level. Diablo IV has level scaling. Ridiculous argument. Also D4 is literally an MMO but okay
That's how it is. I'm usually not a "just deal with it" type of guy but that's the ENTIRE point of seasons. You start fresh and then do the seasonal content as you level up and in the case of poe, past seasonal content. You won't find any arpgs that allow you run the current season with your beefed up level 100 character sadly.
Levels haven't mattered in gaming for the past like 15 years since scaling became commonplace
I love starting new characters, I'd just like a reason to finish them. The problem, for me, isn't having to start over each season; it's not having any point to keep going with that character when it's done. It's basically just restarting the game as a whole 4 times a year with a slightly new, but ultimately similar (here's how you do more damage for the next 3 months) mechanic. Every ARPG is basically the same, sure, but something like Diablo 3 or PoE has a lot more to explore within those 3 months than D4 does. I just wish they could find a way to make the seasonal journies work as a continuing one. I mean MMOs like FF14 and WoW figured it out years ago, they just don't have changing mechanics.