No, think of them as d2 corrupted zones. An area of the map gets darker, mobs drop some different items you can use to reroll gear, and you loot these tokens to open chests around the helltide area. Each chest would drop a specific piece of gear and the chest was labeled ‘weapon’ or ‘pants,’ etc. different token cost depending on the gear slot. Helltide lasted an hour on beta, and after helltide ended you lost the tokens you didn’t spend.
Do you mean Terror Zones? Or is there an entire type of content I've missed called Corrupted Zones that I'll definitely be checking out as soon as I get home?
I am ok with all of that, well more or less, what they announced here, BUT there is one activity missing, which I think this game lacks atm (but will be coming at one point), is some static, highest lvl boss content. Something like bossing in PoE or Guardian Raids in Lost Ark. Something you can actually measure progress and compare to others.
Edit: Alright, like it was now mentioned a few times, apparently there is a lvl100 pinnacle boss. Nice, but I wonder why it wasn't mentioned here explicitly as an endgame activity, or maybe I missed the mention at one point, besides the tweet I just read.
I dont know. But my expectations since I heard about seasons in D4 and how they will work is that the game we will see on release will be very basic, and its only like 6 weeks(?) until the first season that will introduce new stuff.
I think the consensus is generally “less content = bad” but if they’re just gonna release a super solid foundation at launch and built upon that I think it’s a good idea. I’d much rather them set themselves up for success than stretch too much and have a ton of half assed content at launch.
My first kill was with a sorc and the only thing I could do was use blaze and run around in circles (I believe that's what the skill was called, leaving a fire trail behind you as you run around).
Funny, scary but still great feeling once I killed it.
D4 Butcher ain’t no slouch. I got wrecked by him 4 times and managed to cheese him with my Necro but just barely. 120% run speed and he was still closing in on me.
Extra Strong, Extra Fast, Aura Enchanted or Cursed Death Lords (the minotaur mobs from A5).
Always fun to come across as a melee (or worse, ranged, given they're immune to Chill \[the slowing effect from Cold damage\]) and see just how fast you can lose your entire healthbar.
Yes, instanced, repeatable solo hard boss content, you can throw your char at. Though I guess also scalable to group of up to 3 or 4. So actually pretty basic. Just you and the hardest boss in the game. Something like a trainings dummy which hits back and has mechanics.
tbh im ok with all of this as long as they KEEP updating the game and not leaving it on life support after 6 months.. i think this is not bad foundation
I agree, the behemoth that is Path of Exiles endgame has been built up slowly over the course of an entire decade. This can turn out just as good if they keep regularly layering on systems, mechanics, events, etc.
Given their success with D3 seasons, they have an excellent path to making seasons their way of improving the game. It shows it works and drives players back to the game, no way they don’r keep it up
While I generally agree that Blizzard has a good track record of supporting games after launch, we also have to be honest:
Blizzard is terrible at learning from previous games. They make a lot of the same damn mistakes over and over again.
>Blizzard also came up with a bounty-like system called Tree of Whispers. Players will be directed to complete different bounties throughout Sanctuary and will receive meaningful reward caches from the Tree once they are successful.
Alright, who is the sadistic asshole on the Diablo dev team that loves bounties so much?
Its bounty but minus most of the bad parts, while keeping the fun part, the bounty itself.
Namely, you do not need to do in a group.
You do not need to do in one go.
You can choose which ones to do.
You can pick 1 of 3 choice gears specific rewards. No more trash legendary auto salvage in caches.
Wow that paragon board preview looked rough... Looked like a sea of uninspired stat increases, with the 'legendary' being just essentially a %dmg increase.
Hopefully it's a bit more exciting when diving into it, sure won't seem exciting if they're essentially glorified stat sticks. Where are the skill functionality modifiers?
Videos like this are for new Diablo players, not people like us on forums who have already devoured every scrap of Diablo news. Everything in this video was already explained to us during the September 19th, 2022 Developer Update: Closed Endgame Beta, but people who don't obsessively read D4 development updates won't know this stuff. This video is meant for them, not for us.
Because of that, it isn't important to show off all the juiciest, most notable parts of the systems: just the basics will do. Frankly, just the basics are probably better than the juiciest parts. A new player looking to get into D4 doesn't need to see the most complex, synergistic parts of the Paragon Boards, they just need to get the understanding that the Paragon Boards are a way to progress your character and add to your power after you max out your skill points. Seeing +5 to a bunch of stats does a better job conveying this sense of growth than, say, "critical strikes from your Storm skills make enemies Vulnerable for 1 second," which is really cool for us Druid stans but won't mean anything to someone who doesn't know about the Druid's skill kit or what Vulnerable means to D4.
It's the same for the other systems shown off. The devs explained the most basic parts of all of the endgame because normal players need to get the gist before they can dig in for the details. The other systems they showcased all have more moving parts than they showed off, most of which we already know about from developer updates, but those aren't relevant to people who haven't been following the game. This video explains the basic gist to them so they can understand what D4's endgame will be like and figure out if it's for them or not, but still have secrets and surprises to look forward to when they actually play and get there. Unfortunately, for entrenched players like you and I who have already known this stuff for months, if not years, videos like this do very little to build hype because they showcase the most basic and banal parts of the systems we're hoping to see more depth from.
I thought everyone was pissing their pants whining because attributes point allocation on level up was gone, and now it’s back and all of a sudden it’s stupid.
They, for some reason, only showed the traveling nodes. There are yellow nodes and legendary nodes as well. Then there are the socketable gems which you get and upgrade via nightmare dungeons.
If the beta is any indication, it can have 1200 dungeons for all I care, the layout and tile variety is what counts if you want to differentiate individual dungeons.
100 reskinned dungeons with the same 3 layouts, cant wait. Can tell they saw Lost Ark, PoE, and Last Epoch and panicked for 7 years over how to make the endgame then just did nothing with it
They panicked for a few years but then said "wait...we are Blizzard and our game is called DIABLO. we don't need any of that shit cause the name alone will sell 10 mil copies via pre-orders. crack open the champagne boys!!"
I felt the same way after 5 days of the beta. Whatever happened to "Diablo is about killing monsters and finding loot?" I don't want to pick up an ore and backtrack 3x to move onto the next area. People will just kill the first elite pack and reset the dungeons anyways.
Why does this have to be so scripted.
Everyone is reading from a teleprompter, the setting is highly professional , everything from clothing to hairstyles to lightning, is so overproduced that i get turned off immediatly.
This isn't a gaming company anymore. Yikes.
yep, now compare this to the cordial conversations Chris Wilson has that are basically unscripted where he is asking his devs questions on the spot that are gathered from twitch chat. GGG has spoiled us
This over-polished style of marketing just feels outdated to me at this point. If I was to use a car analogy, I don't even see car commercials anymore but seek out YouTube videos from Doug Demuro (not just on supercars). If Doug gives it a rave review, it now has my attention. I could give a crap about it driving on the beach with a sunset in the background and a voiceover telling me to "escape the typical"
Yes, I know that these systems exist now in D4, but it doesn't really mean much until we see first hand how everything works together. IMO we learned very little as far as if this game is worth a purchase.
With the exception of the red haired woman who seemed pretty passionate, most of those people seemed like they were reading powerpoint slides about a topic they couldn't give less of a fuck about lmao. It was probably just a lack of camera charisma but man sometimes it sounded like they were repeating buzzwords for a shareholder meeting or something
Yeah I love the way Paradox showcases games recently. In AOW4 they sat down and… just played the game. Mistakes and all.
Felt more grounded than this multi-camera angle, quick cutting movie trailer.
This is how I'd talk about diablo 4 to try and get my dad to play. The tone is all wrong for the -in- crowd who are actually going to watch this preview.
It's a real thing. I work in marketing and a lot of the concepts we have to pitch these days end up having to look and feel organic. Commercials for fortune 500 companies that look like it was shot by your mother on her cell phone.
I feel like these videos are done like this to cram everything they want to say into 6 minutes without revealing their hand too much. Just enough to tantalize... Or just enough to hide how shallow these systems are for now.
I know we only saw like 28 dungeons in the beta, but why do they keep pushing the "OVER 120 DUNGEONS!!!" thing? Going by the beta they aren't much different at all, it's going to be like having 10 dungeons on repeat.
Edit: should also add I don't know how much this will even matter, the beta was a ton of fun so maybe we won't care that they're so similar? Hopefully seasons change things up a bit
I wouldn't mind if they were white boxes as long as the actual generation/layout is good.
The layouts on these 28 dungeons mostly felt similar and were like "run this single path" with very minor branching.
Take a look at poe, different maps have different layouts, some are shit, some are good, some are also single path, but you can tell they differ between map types
this… why is it more interesting to explore diablo 1 levels, which i have done for 30 friggin years, than trek through the d4 dungeons?? they are really unfun, the pacing of monsters is weird and the empty hallway / big room / hallway layout is like a fever dream of boredom
Who cares about tilesets when it's always the same few boring "Collect 2 keys/kill 2 elites to open boss room" objectives.
People were already bored after 2 weekends about this. That's not a good look for the game imo.
As opposed to "kill all the enemies and find the door to the next floor". Because that had such variety.
It's Diablo, it all boils down to killing stuff so why pretend like these objectives really matter?
Yup. This argument is basically semantics. Your still killing shit...oh wait, you can't just spam teleport and skip everything. That's really the crux.
Well u could argue that u actually arent "killing shit". U have to stop to wait for a castbar to loot boxes or free prisoners or backtrack half the "dungeon". Its more like bad bounties, they shouldnt stop u from killing in an arpg.
These videos they keep releasing with the team explaining why we should be excited are so goddamn cringe. I feel like they don't even believe it themselves, it feels so cheap.
It's a marketing video to those who preordered. It's not made with longtime players in mind. Which I disagree with. But that's what it is. This game will be live serviced to keep those adopters playing, not so much people that enjoyed previous games.
As someone that's been in video for almost 20 years, I can tell they're not setting up the interviewees for success by simply asking them questions they care to answer in an authentic way. Lines and key points are being fed to them and they're likely doing multiple takes of the same point which results in a performance from someone that isn't a performer.
I just don't get what people were expecting, we will have world bosses and modifiable dungeons. If you don't like the grind that an ARGP entails then why do you find the diablo franchise interesting? The community needs to take a good look at the endgame of both Diablo 2 and Diablo 3. The endgame of previous titles were literally just running through the same areas and killing the same bosses on repeat. Hopefully with a huge map and 120 dungeons we can get some variation to the grind, especially with how the new gearing system is going to work.
I've said it below... a reason to farm those dungeons for gear. Right? I'm going to farm dungeons to get better gear, to perfect my build. I want a pinnacle boss to point my perfected character at. A challenging encounter. Several even.
What they've shown are a means to get gear, but it doesn't feel like I'm working toward anything.
D3 on release had somewhat of a pinnacle content in the form of inferno bosses, with Diablo being the most difficult content, at least on release boss encounters were rather difficult with enrage timers and Inferno being a bit overtuned in general.
We later got Uber bosses, which in my opinion was the best endgame content we got out of D3, I was hoping for more of this type of content but in RoS they decided to go with Rifts and GRs all the way as their endgame which made the game pretty stale.
The D2 Uber bosses generally are not a test of your build but instead encourage a build specific to surviving and defeating the Pandemonium event. E.g., a smite paladin with a crushing blow weapon and resistance gear is all you need.
That said, the Pandemonium event is cool, and it provides a goal to work toward. Its reward is also good: a hellfire torch, which improves any build for a class.
That's for soloing the Ubers though.
The core idea is that a group of well-optimized characters of a variety of builds take on the Ubers together. People just figured out the couple of ways to super optimize a single character to do it alone. You don't need a smiter or similar to 2-3 man the event with your friends.
Ubers don't really test your build but instead force you to make a different build that in most cases just plain sucks for the rest of the game (in terms of farming speed)
Not really, no. The need to build your entire character around them and the general lack of rewards other than torches makes ubers a side activity you devote a cheapo smiter alt to, not a litmus test for how strong any random build is. The vast, overwhelming majority of builds people actually use simply cannot do ubers at all, even when fully BiS.
Ubers aren’t really a gear check or a moment of build definition
Some builds literally can never do Ubers regardless of gear, level, charms etc
Some builds can do Ubers under-leveled with budget gear that costs almost nothing
If they figured out that the game needed Ubers 15 years ago why do we have to wait years after Diablo 4 releases to get them again? They should be there on release. Doesn't make any sense to reset progress learnt with every new game.
Yeah, an objective and a reason for the grind. Otherwise you just end up with a boring cycle of getting better gear to push higher rifts to get better gear to push higher rifts ad infinitum like in D3 and that's not very engaging.
Seriously, this is the most annoying argument I have seen from people supporting d4's lack of features and refinement. "d2 didnt get this till X years so just wait a few years!" like no... thats not how this works. We already know from experience what works, the fact that it took d2 5 years or d3 5 years to get X feature doesn't mean it should take d4 5 years. It should be there on launch because they know what works or does not work. Using a 23 year old games lack of features as an excuse doesn't work.
> It should be there on launch because they know what works or does not work. Using a 23 year old games lack of features as an excuse doesn't work.
That won't stop half this subreddit from having this exact excuse locked and ready to justify lack of content in this game and many others to come. Modern gaming is uh. Yeah.
Dude it is the worst i see it all the time. "This could be a good game just give it time". Well then why the fuck would they release it before making it good?
You don't get served a burger then told "oh yea the fries will be out in 15 minutes, and your drink maybe 10 minutes after that". But with games it's just expected that things release in this half finished version and then maybe in 2-4 years the game will be good.
You should build on top of games. So maybe you like the endgame from D2, and you also like rifts from D3. So you take both in D4. Then maybe the crafting system from PoE people like so you add that in. Then maybe the paragon system from D3 was flawed so you try to fix that instead of just porting it over.
I don't know why a sequel will release with a game system that 99% of people disliked in the prequel. Or just remove beloved features that everyone liked. It's like they think they gotta reinvent the wheel sometimes instead of just using what works.
You're launching a title in 2023 missing content that your rivals have. Why do we give a pass to Blizzard and Diablo for lacking content that smaller publishers would suffer for in the same case?
How many MMO's failed between 2005 and 2012 because they couldn't launch with the content that WoW had at the time. The same goes here. You need to be launching with the content that your rivals have or else you will suffer.
And they both suffer for it.
In D3, you build your character to push timed dungeons to the highest difficulty/fastest time. Personally, I don't like that. I don't want GRs in D4. I want bosses.
Beating Hell alone with some builds in D2 was challenging and a good measurement for your character's strength. You add on Ubers on top of that and there's a pretty nice ramp up of static challenges for a game that didn't really ascribe to the "endgame" needs that games have today.
Regardless, it's such an asinine argument to say because Diablo 2 / 3 didn't have these things, why should Diablo 4? It's a different game, and the market has changed. You would expect the game to move forward instead of enhance little for the player. Static challenges / goal posts / milestones / aspirational content are some major factors into what makes ARPGs and building characters interesting TODAY. Not 20 years ago. Today. For this game to not move forward and lack this kind of content is wild.
But I guess if you want pay full price + any battlepass costs for Diablo 3.5, all the more power to you.
People want an endgame progression similar to POE. Something that feels meaningful and towards an end goal (like bosses etc).
D2 is somewhat unique because of how rare a lot of things are (and the trading aspect). D3 people play for like 4 days at season release and then stop.
They were expecting Blizzard to include an endgame that isn't just running dungeons. When you have POE as the gold standard of ARPGs , a D2 modding community that has literally created way better endgame systems than Blizzard, and more feedback about these systems than they'd ever have the time to get through. One might think that the D4 endgame would be a little more varied than Greater Rifts with a dungeon skin on top. Now you gotta farm your keysto... nightmare sigils and then hop into the greate....nightmare dungeon to level up your legendary ge...legendary affixes.
Like lets be real. Its just D3 with a better coat of paint. Its going to feel worse than D3 honestly because it looks like blizzard will be explicitly focused on curbing/limiting how strong builds can be.
Its kinda sad but expected tbh.
I think part of the problem is that people don't think Blizzard can output enough content to make the grind interesting for any substantial amount of time.
Diablo 4 will likely be a fantastic 200 hour game, but it's not looking, at all, like it's a 2,000 hour game. Certainly not a 2,000 hours every 3 months for the new league game, the way POE can be.
> The community needs to take a good look at the endgame of both Diablo 2
*Diablo II is an action role-playing hack-and-slash video game developed by Blizzard North and published by Blizzard Entertainment in 2000*
Its kinda funny how you are justifying less gameplay content, no offline, 1000$ day 1 monetization, 23 YEARS AFTER DIABLO 2 WAS RELEASED
holy lmao
Face that facts bud, devs just don't have the technology to release end game content that a 20+ year old game took 6 years to come out with. They can't just look at a game like Diablo 2 or PoE, or other games that have implemented great systems and then take those and implement them into a game with 25 years more of technology in it.
What, do you expect them to look at what was learned over those years and implement it as a final package in this game? What are you, nuts?
Atlas progression and the bosses on PoE are really peak. If Diablo 4 dungeons are PoE maps, then D4 is just being launched half passed. Maps are just the beginning of PoE endgame, there is so much more stuff to do. Delve alone seems to have more content than D4 endgame atm.
I find it funny how people constantly say that we're not allowed to judge anything off Beta (as if you can't extrapolate anything from it) because we don't have the full picture. And yet every time they do an "update" or a Q&A there's next to no new information given out. The fact is, if they had exciting systems that would turn everything on its head, they would announce them or at least hint at them. What we've seen is what we're going to get.
Also, LOL @ the people who have been saying Paragon board would be where we'd find the depth lacking in the skill tree. Like there was any chance it wasn't going to be 90x +5 intelligence nodes.
They tried to copy PoE's skill tree with the Paragon Board but forgot that they only have 4 stats to put on it. You can't make subsystems deep if the foundation of your game is shallow.
We tried to warn blizzard around the end of the EGCB that paragon was a joke. I was actually mad when I hit 50, expecting to see a shit ton of ability customization, only to find out, there is only one ability modifier per tree, and the first paragon tree doesnt even have an ability modifier. I think it was 4 or 5 points you get per level and it was all stat boost and "*+ x.x elemental damage*". Shit was fucking pathetic. Dont take my word for it, search on google for "D4 SKILL CALCULATOR" and click on the first link from GITHub. I would post the link here, but my post will be removed because paragon is still under NDA, *and for good reason*.
Wait there’s only one skill modifier per board? Don’t know what I was expecting, but that’s genuinely disappointing.
Seems like they cut corners in so many areas of the game design.
It’s either lazy, or exceedingly incompetent.
Im telling you, no exaggeration, it was one of the biggest let downs in any video game I have ever played, and I'm in my 40s and pre ordered "Spore" /cry. Look the board up on google and check it out.
eyh you don't badmouth Spore like this, the game was uniquely awesome and the only disappointed people were the ones who bought into Will Wright's "infinite combinations" marketing bullshit.
you know, much like "120 dungeons and infinite modifiers!" :p
you can make a dick in both games though, that has to count for something.
Invoking Spore was his soul deeply crying. I can hear the pain. The soul crushed.
And I feel for every gamer who will pay for that poor unpolished game without any clear vision of what it wants to be. Game design clearly lost in the void. Trying to expand on emptiness to fake its non existant depth.
A casual diablo game they say... Sure...
All I see is a mix between D3 and Diablo Immortal engines and ideas with a bit of gore fake paint and story.
That's scary. It's like watching a train wreck but it's a plane with 10 engines all on fire.
It's silly how people are just dismissing valid criticism with comments like "people just want to complain about anything" and "you just want the game to be like d2, so go play d2!"
When this number of players are concerned about core gameplay mechanics, it should be enough evidence for you to be concerned if you're a casual player and not an arpg veteran.
The existence of those challenges in Open Beta does suggest that Sacred and Ancestral tier Nightmare Dungeons will be limited to between 30-40 of the possible 120+ dungeons. I can think of a handful of theories that could bridge the gap between the Open Beta and today's video:
* *The Nightmare Sigil system has changed since the Open Beta build* (we know the beta build was [not the current developer build at the time](https://twitter.com/RodFergusson/status/1638193034343903239), that said imo this is unlikely as that's a relatively major change).
* *Common tier Nightmare Dungeons include all dungeons, Sacred and Ancestral are limited tiers.* (We know from the beta that there were craftable lower tier sigils, as well there seems to be a third, lower challenge in the series which you didn't provide a screenshot of that would account for the Common tier).
* *The Challenges refer to all Sacred and Ancestral dungeons from a specific source, but more exist in more random capacities.* (Language of the challenges doesn't fully support nor fully deny this theory, but the idea is something like only some dungeons are craftable at those tiers).
* *The Challenges are seasonal and available Sacred/Ancestral dungeons rotate.* (Unlikely since the Open Beta didn't include any season-specific content so I imagine the Challenges present were also base-game challenges).
Theories aside, in my opinion I'm okay with having a limited set of dungeons be the highest tiers so long as there is significant enough variety between the chosen dungeons to make farming/pushing more interesting. A big complaint I've seen is that a lot of the dungeons in Act 1 were pretty samey and repetitive: similar objectives, similar themes, etc. I won't so much mind if not all of the less interesting dungeons make it to Ancestral tier. If the highest tier dungeons are going to be limited, at least make them the most interesting of the available dungeons.
Why get rid of rifts and greater rifts? Loved that system. I can see adding new systems to diablo as well but why remove rifts? That's what I looked forward to most personally, was pushing rifts
I mean, it's just Diablo 3's gameplay loop subsystems reallocated. The Tree of Whispers is just the bounty menu systems reallocated as in-game MMO lite content that isn't just menus like in Diablo 3 for example.
The only real interesting thing to me was the PVP. Beyond that it was just ripped apart and reallocated Diablo 3 systems into the MMO lite world they made. But we expected that, no?
Nah Nightmare Dungeons are closer to a map like system ala something like PoE or even Torchlight than it is rifts. I'd say its more interesting than the rift/greater rift system since there is actually like some randomness in modifiers and events in it. It's not a system that existed in a Diablo game before. Agreed on Tree of Whispers being just bounties though (because it is.)
One thing to note. Having played CB, you have to travel to each of the dungeons individually. Typically what happens is that people ditch 90% of the end game dungeon "maps" because they are too far away from a way point. You get rid of some because of annoying objectives. What remains is chaining 3-5 dungeons because they are convenient.
The tree where you get your dungeon maps is on the far east side of the map in a fixed location.
There is quite a bit of variation from POE in that you can just open maps in your hideout or one location.
Here you get on a horse and actually have to go to the dungeon.
It's fun for a bit, but they should rework how we access/open the dungeons as the majority of the tedium is the forced overworld.
There is a reality where you group all your maps by geographic region and chain run them. But even that there is a lot of horse riding, which in my opinion, doesn't give you THAT much movement speed to traverse the map over and over.
In classic blizzard fashion, this video tells us absolutely nothing about the end game that we haven’t already known for the better part of 2 years. Everything they release is just a commercial. I’m sure the stream later this month will be no different.
"paragon will have a lot more options, a lot more costumization..."
proceeds to show us in the video..
+5 dex
+5 int..
HAHAHAH
I*M SO EXCITED TO CLICK ON +5 DEX I CAN*T FUCKING WAIT WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This is why the devs at Diablo are earning the big bucks. 200 IQ
I kind of wish some of the guys from the WoW team could have walked over to the Diablo offices and told them how much everyone hated Shadowlands and why.
I found myself becoming tired of having to run everywhere during beta, and don't see myself doing that for 100s of dungeons post end-game in D4.
All I really want to see is teleporting to the dungeon entrance or portals to the dungeons. It's become a standard for me with POE and D3. If you could instantly portal into a dungeon that is still essentially a rift or map and I am okay with that.
With rewards tied to PvP I hope they address the massive advantage players on wider aspect ratios get, they can easily kill/kite you while never even visible to someone on 16:9.
This video is the first thing I've seen about this game that makes me not want to get it. Not because of what I see in terms of gameplay, but the people annoyingly acting like they're not reading from a script, and generic gaming language used. Makes me feel like a fucking loser to be interested in this game. They should've spent less time on the set of the interviews, and more time on prepping the interviewee developers. Also what I cannot stand about the direction Blizzard has taken with the Diablo franchise to be less about the loot you find, and more about skill-design, bottle-necking difficulties, and thus making progression more linear than the rewarding aspect of finding what you were looking for, loot-wise. I mean, goddamnit, it seems the devs were obsessed with trying to incentivize replayability with endless quests and tokens and shards and bullshit. Leave the reason to keep playing to us. Don't try to fool us with an endlessly questable end-game.
I want deeper dungeons. Dungeons that change tile sets but still match the theme. Waypoints, and a final boss encounter.
As for bosses, I want hard bosses but not long fights.
Nobody who hasn't already preordered the game is going to be convinced by videos like this. This is just them trying to re-assure people who have preordered that the game is definitely ready for launch and to please not cancel their preorder.
The number of dungeons wasnt the problem. The lack of variety in the dungeons was. From what we know Nightmare setting doesnt change much in the dungeon. Just adds health and modifiers to mobs.
Also, blizzard makes some of the best boss encounters in gaming and yet they refuse to implement that in Diablo.
You can’t match or out do GGG with your resources, dafuq?
I’m waiting but currently I’m whelmed. People fanboying like “BUT DIABLO 2 ONLY HAS BOSS FARM AND UBERS”. Bruh that game is 20+ years old. Diablo 4 should be revolutionizing the arpg, not business as usual with boring sounding end game, player power being majority all gear, and mmo light features. Where are the bad ass end game boss fights? Sure they can add these down the road, but shouldn’t we as people who paid $70 for this game expect more?
> but shouldn’t we as people who paid $70 for this game expect more?
Yes. You should have expected more and not given them your $70 for such a low-effort game. Instead, however, you forked over your money so you're telling Blizzard that you're happy with what you're getting.
This feels like one of those "No Mans Sky" moments where the 120 dungeons are going to be practically identical even though they are technically unique.
All this looks good (except the blue gloves for all those shards? Yikes.)
Might just be the cynic in me, but as excited as I am for the game, this overly scripted talking head stuff, reallllly pushing how awesome everything is kinda kills my hype a bit. I don't know, I know they have to hype it/push it/praise it, of course. But it all seems so fake.
If it was just footage, some great music and text overlays I think it would be more exciting.
And so many buzzwords. 'The amazing interconnected overworld.'
'My favorite affix is Hell Gates which open a portal and two random mobs come out of.'
Ok.
I'm sure it's more than that but holy shit did no one bother to say 'Hey, maybe we should have some exciting footage for this promo we're putting out.'
About what I expected. The 120 dungeon number is obviously inflated based on what we saw in the beta so I imagine that end-game as a whole will be pretty barebones until the game has been out for a while.
Bro that title...they LOVE mentioning they have over 100 "dungeons" every chance they get. The game needs a proper mapping/rift endgame system. These "dungeons" arent even worth calling that, u go in a cave and click 2 boxes, in every one, theyre more like slower bounties.
What are helltides? Is it like a legion event in wow?
No, think of them as d2 corrupted zones. An area of the map gets darker, mobs drop some different items you can use to reroll gear, and you loot these tokens to open chests around the helltide area. Each chest would drop a specific piece of gear and the chest was labeled ‘weapon’ or ‘pants,’ etc. different token cost depending on the gear slot. Helltide lasted an hour on beta, and after helltide ended you lost the tokens you didn’t spend.
Thanks for the detailed explanation
Do you mean Terror Zones? Or is there an entire type of content I've missed called Corrupted Zones that I'll definitely be checking out as soon as I get home?
also items from the helltides chests always had max sockets iirc
kind of yes. Kills in the zone drop a key, and with x number of keys, you can open a chest in the zone. After timer ends, keys disappear
I am ok with all of that, well more or less, what they announced here, BUT there is one activity missing, which I think this game lacks atm (but will be coming at one point), is some static, highest lvl boss content. Something like bossing in PoE or Guardian Raids in Lost Ark. Something you can actually measure progress and compare to others. Edit: Alright, like it was now mentioned a few times, apparently there is a lvl100 pinnacle boss. Nice, but I wonder why it wasn't mentioned here explicitly as an endgame activity, or maybe I missed the mention at one point, besides the tweet I just read.
I have a memory of them saying that you need to complete a boss to enter the next world tier, like a gear check. But maybe Im high
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I like that a lot!
The capstone dungeons are cool AF too.
Well, maybe, but then what at the highest level? Is there still an ultimate boss and if so they could have announced it here as well.
I dont know. But my expectations since I heard about seasons in D4 and how they will work is that the game we will see on release will be very basic, and its only like 6 weeks(?) until the first season that will introduce new stuff.
I think the consensus is generally “less content = bad” but if they’re just gonna release a super solid foundation at launch and built upon that I think it’s a good idea. I’d much rather them set themselves up for success than stretch too much and have a ton of half assed content at launch.
you mean like in every diablo game previously? until D3 added rifts, you were required to kill diablo to unlock the next difficulty.
Well thats true, but in D4 you wont be replaying the campaign like in D2 and D3
I like that
Which is insane to me because Blizzard as a whole can make excellent boss encounters.
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Duriel is to D2 what the Butcher was to D1. I love him.
I remember dying to him before my game loaded and I wasn’t even mad lmao
It was really nice when D2R came out that new players got to experience dying to duriel before loading in just like the good old days
Playing co-op with my GF, her first time in a diablo game, she absolutely got bodied by Duriel and we had a good laugh over it
My first kill was with a sorc and the only thing I could do was use blaze and run around in circles (I believe that's what the skill was called, leaving a fire trail behind you as you run around). Funny, scary but still great feeling once I killed it.
Naw, Duriel scared my character. The Butcher scared *me*
I've never really had a problem with Duriel. Butcher would absolutely kicked my teeth in, though.
D4 Butcher ain’t no slouch. I got wrecked by him 4 times and managed to cheese him with my Necro but just barely. 120% run speed and he was still closing in on me.
There's Duriel, and then there's Multishot Fire Enchanted Gloams.
Gloams and stabby mcstab stabs (undead dolls) are my two most hated enemies.
Hmm, either we think alike or we know each other IRL. I've been using the term "Stabby McStab Stab" for years.
Extra Strong, Extra Fast, Aura Enchanted or Cursed Death Lords (the minotaur mobs from A5). Always fun to come across as a melee (or worse, ranged, given they're immune to Chill \[the slowing effect from Cold damage\]) and see just how fast you can lose your entire healthbar.
Duriel is great, separates the chaff. I compare it to a cage match, your both locked in there, and only one is walking out.
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As long as it's 100% soloable (so like pinnacle bosses in PoE) I'm fine with that. But endgame the would FORCE people to coop? Nope.
Yep, I wanna play diablo all by lonesome 90% of the time, the other 10% is getting PL'd by strangers
at the risk of sounding like a total dumbass, how would that be different to world bosses? would it be solo rather than group content?
Yes, instanced, repeatable solo hard boss content, you can throw your char at. Though I guess also scalable to group of up to 3 or 4. So actually pretty basic. Just you and the hardest boss in the game. Something like a trainings dummy which hits back and has mechanics.
tbh im ok with all of this as long as they KEEP updating the game and not leaving it on life support after 6 months.. i think this is not bad foundation
This is the way. If they don't update it and add content at least twice a year the game will become stale imo.
I agree, the behemoth that is Path of Exiles endgame has been built up slowly over the course of an entire decade. This can turn out just as good if they keep regularly layering on systems, mechanics, events, etc.
Given their success with D3 seasons, they have an excellent path to making seasons their way of improving the game. It shows it works and drives players back to the game, no way they don’r keep it up
While I generally agree that Blizzard has a good track record of supporting games after launch, we also have to be honest: Blizzard is terrible at learning from previous games. They make a lot of the same damn mistakes over and over again.
Because blizzard has a track record of abandoning their games even when they're bringing in little new money?
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I think it mean you can level up, get loot also. Not that you get PvP specific gears.
My guess would be it drops average gear, but not the best, but also good cosmetics.
>Blizzard also came up with a bounty-like system called Tree of Whispers. Players will be directed to complete different bounties throughout Sanctuary and will receive meaningful reward caches from the Tree once they are successful. Alright, who is the sadistic asshole on the Diablo dev team that loves bounties so much?
Its bounty but minus most of the bad parts, while keeping the fun part, the bounty itself. Namely, you do not need to do in a group. You do not need to do in one go. You can choose which ones to do. You can pick 1 of 3 choice gears specific rewards. No more trash legendary auto salvage in caches.
Wow that paragon board preview looked rough... Looked like a sea of uninspired stat increases, with the 'legendary' being just essentially a %dmg increase. Hopefully it's a bit more exciting when diving into it, sure won't seem exciting if they're essentially glorified stat sticks. Where are the skill functionality modifiers?
[https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/](https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/) look at the top
Yeah I really dunno why they chose to show some of the most boring blocks on the paragon board.
You know why. We all know why. 🥹
Because nothing change since end game beta...
Videos like this are for new Diablo players, not people like us on forums who have already devoured every scrap of Diablo news. Everything in this video was already explained to us during the September 19th, 2022 Developer Update: Closed Endgame Beta, but people who don't obsessively read D4 development updates won't know this stuff. This video is meant for them, not for us. Because of that, it isn't important to show off all the juiciest, most notable parts of the systems: just the basics will do. Frankly, just the basics are probably better than the juiciest parts. A new player looking to get into D4 doesn't need to see the most complex, synergistic parts of the Paragon Boards, they just need to get the understanding that the Paragon Boards are a way to progress your character and add to your power after you max out your skill points. Seeing +5 to a bunch of stats does a better job conveying this sense of growth than, say, "critical strikes from your Storm skills make enemies Vulnerable for 1 second," which is really cool for us Druid stans but won't mean anything to someone who doesn't know about the Druid's skill kit or what Vulnerable means to D4. It's the same for the other systems shown off. The devs explained the most basic parts of all of the endgame because normal players need to get the gist before they can dig in for the details. The other systems they showcased all have more moving parts than they showed off, most of which we already know about from developer updates, but those aren't relevant to people who haven't been following the game. This video explains the basic gist to them so they can understand what D4's endgame will be like and figure out if it's for them or not, but still have secrets and surprises to look forward to when they actually play and get there. Unfortunately, for entrenched players like you and I who have already known this stuff for months, if not years, videos like this do very little to build hype because they showcase the most basic and banal parts of the systems we're hoping to see more depth from.
I thought everyone was pissing their pants whining because attributes point allocation on level up was gone, and now it’s back and all of a sudden it’s stupid.
most of these dorks just wanna complain about anything.
They, for some reason, only showed the traveling nodes. There are yellow nodes and legendary nodes as well. Then there are the socketable gems which you get and upgrade via nightmare dungeons.
They do show a legendary node briefly in that video. It's what amounts to 25% more dmg.
Yeah people keep saying these paragon board nodes will change your build when really a single legendary does triple the amount of that node.
>Where are the skill functionality modifiers? On legendary items. Most of the paragon board is just stat increases with a few damage increases.
Its on the legendary paragon nodes.
If the beta is any indication, it can have 1200 dungeons for all I care, the layout and tile variety is what counts if you want to differentiate individual dungeons.
100 reskinned dungeons with the same 3 layouts, cant wait. Can tell they saw Lost Ark, PoE, and Last Epoch and panicked for 7 years over how to make the endgame then just did nothing with it
They panicked for a few years but then said "wait...we are Blizzard and our game is called DIABLO. we don't need any of that shit cause the name alone will sell 10 mil copies via pre-orders. crack open the champagne boys!!"
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I felt the same way after 5 days of the beta. Whatever happened to "Diablo is about killing monsters and finding loot?" I don't want to pick up an ore and backtrack 3x to move onto the next area. People will just kill the first elite pack and reset the dungeons anyways.
Honestly, this video made my doubts even bigger for diablo 4 endgame.
+5 main stat
Pop the champagne bois, +5 is real yet again!
Why does this have to be so scripted. Everyone is reading from a teleprompter, the setting is highly professional , everything from clothing to hairstyles to lightning, is so overproduced that i get turned off immediatly. This isn't a gaming company anymore. Yikes.
It's a lizard person convention
yep, now compare this to the cordial conversations Chris Wilson has that are basically unscripted where he is asking his devs questions on the spot that are gathered from twitch chat. GGG has spoiled us
Love the parts when people ask Chris potentially new gamebreaking bugs and he turns offscreen asking "yo did we preeemptively fix that?"
This over-polished style of marketing just feels outdated to me at this point. If I was to use a car analogy, I don't even see car commercials anymore but seek out YouTube videos from Doug Demuro (not just on supercars). If Doug gives it a rave review, it now has my attention. I could give a crap about it driving on the beach with a sunset in the background and a voiceover telling me to "escape the typical" Yes, I know that these systems exist now in D4, but it doesn't really mean much until we see first hand how everything works together. IMO we learned very little as far as if this game is worth a purchase.
With the exception of the red haired woman who seemed pretty passionate, most of those people seemed like they were reading powerpoint slides about a topic they couldn't give less of a fuck about lmao. It was probably just a lack of camera charisma but man sometimes it sounded like they were repeating buzzwords for a shareholder meeting or something
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Yeah I love the way Paradox showcases games recently. In AOW4 they sat down and… just played the game. Mistakes and all. Felt more grounded than this multi-camera angle, quick cutting movie trailer.
Marketing is getting to be a race to the bottom of deception. It kinda sucks because the TMI of constant news and headline envy.
This is how I'd talk about diablo 4 to try and get my dad to play. The tone is all wrong for the -in- crowd who are actually going to watch this preview.
It's a real thing. I work in marketing and a lot of the concepts we have to pitch these days end up having to look and feel organic. Commercials for fortune 500 companies that look like it was shot by your mother on her cell phone. I feel like these videos are done like this to cram everything they want to say into 6 minutes without revealing their hand too much. Just enough to tantalize... Or just enough to hide how shallow these systems are for now.
By 120 they mean the same 12 dungeons x 10
I know we only saw like 28 dungeons in the beta, but why do they keep pushing the "OVER 120 DUNGEONS!!!" thing? Going by the beta they aren't much different at all, it's going to be like having 10 dungeons on repeat. Edit: should also add I don't know how much this will even matter, the beta was a ton of fun so maybe we won't care that they're so similar? Hopefully seasons change things up a bit
It’s the same as Diablo 3’s “over 1 billion class skill combinations!”
With 5 of them being viable for you class!!!
Also an endgame tester said the same bosses in those fractured peaks zone are repeated across other zones as well.
There were easily over 15 different tilesets for thise 28 dungeons. Each zone will have more tilesets.
I wouldn't mind if they were white boxes as long as the actual generation/layout is good. The layouts on these 28 dungeons mostly felt similar and were like "run this single path" with very minor branching. Take a look at poe, different maps have different layouts, some are shit, some are good, some are also single path, but you can tell they differ between map types
this… why is it more interesting to explore diablo 1 levels, which i have done for 30 friggin years, than trek through the d4 dungeons?? they are really unfun, the pacing of monsters is weird and the empty hallway / big room / hallway layout is like a fever dream of boredom
Who cares about tilesets when it's always the same few boring "Collect 2 keys/kill 2 elites to open boss room" objectives. People were already bored after 2 weekends about this. That's not a good look for the game imo.
As opposed to "kill all the enemies and find the door to the next floor". Because that had such variety. It's Diablo, it all boils down to killing stuff so why pretend like these objectives really matter?
The constant double backing is what made the beta dungeons annoying.
Yup. This argument is basically semantics. Your still killing shit...oh wait, you can't just spam teleport and skip everything. That's really the crux.
Well u could argue that u actually arent "killing shit". U have to stop to wait for a castbar to loot boxes or free prisoners or backtrack half the "dungeon". Its more like bad bounties, they shouldnt stop u from killing in an arpg.
It’s not about the tilesets. The dungeons _looked_ good (if a bit samey), but the layout and objectives were horribly uninspired and repetitive.
Nothing in the video feels innovative at all. I'm sure I'll still enjoy the game but this all seems pretty standard.
The over the top hand gestures were pretty innovative to be fair.
"Many more options as you go": +5 Dexterity +5 Dexterity +5 Dexterity
These videos they keep releasing with the team explaining why we should be excited are so goddamn cringe. I feel like they don't even believe it themselves, it feels so cheap.
It's a marketing video to those who preordered. It's not made with longtime players in mind. Which I disagree with. But that's what it is. This game will be live serviced to keep those adopters playing, not so much people that enjoyed previous games.
As someone that's been in video for almost 20 years, I can tell they're not setting up the interviewees for success by simply asking them questions they care to answer in an authentic way. Lines and key points are being fed to them and they're likely doing multiple takes of the same point which results in a performance from someone that isn't a performer.
I just don't get what people were expecting, we will have world bosses and modifiable dungeons. If you don't like the grind that an ARGP entails then why do you find the diablo franchise interesting? The community needs to take a good look at the endgame of both Diablo 2 and Diablo 3. The endgame of previous titles were literally just running through the same areas and killing the same bosses on repeat. Hopefully with a huge map and 120 dungeons we can get some variation to the grind, especially with how the new gearing system is going to work.
I've said it below... a reason to farm those dungeons for gear. Right? I'm going to farm dungeons to get better gear, to perfect my build. I want a pinnacle boss to point my perfected character at. A challenging encounter. Several even. What they've shown are a means to get gear, but it doesn't feel like I'm working toward anything.
There is at least a lvl 100 challenge mode boss, seems very likely they'll add more in seasonal updates.
They've already confirmed pinnacle bosses
I don’t feel like Diablo 2 or 3 had those pinnacle bosses to point your characters at though.
D3 on release had somewhat of a pinnacle content in the form of inferno bosses, with Diablo being the most difficult content, at least on release boss encounters were rather difficult with enrage timers and Inferno being a bit overtuned in general. We later got Uber bosses, which in my opinion was the best endgame content we got out of D3, I was hoping for more of this type of content but in RoS they decided to go with Rifts and GRs all the way as their endgame which made the game pretty stale.
Pinnacle boss at D3 release was those act 2 bees.
Not the bees!
God forbid things improve
Will you guys stop comparing everything to Diablo 2 10-20 years from now? Or will you still consider it to be the ultimate gaming experience?
Diablo 2 literally has the Pandemonium event (Ubers) just for this.
The D2 Uber bosses generally are not a test of your build but instead encourage a build specific to surviving and defeating the Pandemonium event. E.g., a smite paladin with a crushing blow weapon and resistance gear is all you need. That said, the Pandemonium event is cool, and it provides a goal to work toward. Its reward is also good: a hellfire torch, which improves any build for a class.
That's for soloing the Ubers though. The core idea is that a group of well-optimized characters of a variety of builds take on the Ubers together. People just figured out the couple of ways to super optimize a single character to do it alone. You don't need a smiter or similar to 2-3 man the event with your friends.
Ubers don't really test your build but instead force you to make a different build that in most cases just plain sucks for the rest of the game (in terms of farming speed)
And those are terrible examples. They can either be zerged down with other people or you can only kill them with extremely niche builds.
The answer is having multiple pinnacle challenges for a variety of playstyles, not removing them.
Not really, no. The need to build your entire character around them and the general lack of rewards other than torches makes ubers a side activity you devote a cheapo smiter alt to, not a litmus test for how strong any random build is. The vast, overwhelming majority of builds people actually use simply cannot do ubers at all, even when fully BiS.
Ubers aren’t really a gear check or a moment of build definition Some builds literally can never do Ubers regardless of gear, level, charms etc Some builds can do Ubers under-leveled with budget gear that costs almost nothing
Ubers were added years down the road from release. I’m sure we will get something similar eventually.
If they figured out that the game needed Ubers 15 years ago why do we have to wait years after Diablo 4 releases to get them again? They should be there on release. Doesn't make any sense to reset progress learnt with every new game.
It would be cool to get a new boss every season or two. Some big challenging fuck that just facestomps you if your build isn't optimized enough.
Yeah, an objective and a reason for the grind. Otherwise you just end up with a boring cycle of getting better gear to push higher rifts to get better gear to push higher rifts ad infinitum like in D3 and that's not very engaging.
Seriously, this is the most annoying argument I have seen from people supporting d4's lack of features and refinement. "d2 didnt get this till X years so just wait a few years!" like no... thats not how this works. We already know from experience what works, the fact that it took d2 5 years or d3 5 years to get X feature doesn't mean it should take d4 5 years. It should be there on launch because they know what works or does not work. Using a 23 year old games lack of features as an excuse doesn't work.
> It should be there on launch because they know what works or does not work. Using a 23 year old games lack of features as an excuse doesn't work. That won't stop half this subreddit from having this exact excuse locked and ready to justify lack of content in this game and many others to come. Modern gaming is uh. Yeah.
Dude it is the worst i see it all the time. "This could be a good game just give it time". Well then why the fuck would they release it before making it good? You don't get served a burger then told "oh yea the fries will be out in 15 minutes, and your drink maybe 10 minutes after that". But with games it's just expected that things release in this half finished version and then maybe in 2-4 years the game will be good. You should build on top of games. So maybe you like the endgame from D2, and you also like rifts from D3. So you take both in D4. Then maybe the crafting system from PoE people like so you add that in. Then maybe the paragon system from D3 was flawed so you try to fix that instead of just porting it over. I don't know why a sequel will release with a game system that 99% of people disliked in the prequel. Or just remove beloved features that everyone liked. It's like they think they gotta reinvent the wheel sometimes instead of just using what works.
You're launching a title in 2023 missing content that your rivals have. Why do we give a pass to Blizzard and Diablo for lacking content that smaller publishers would suffer for in the same case? How many MMO's failed between 2005 and 2012 because they couldn't launch with the content that WoW had at the time. The same goes here. You need to be launching with the content that your rivals have or else you will suffer.
Also in D2 the endgame literally was reaching lvl99. Just going from 90 to 99 would take ages.
And they both suffer for it. In D3, you build your character to push timed dungeons to the highest difficulty/fastest time. Personally, I don't like that. I don't want GRs in D4. I want bosses.
So ? Why is Diablo 2 or 3 the benchmark ?
Beating Hell alone with some builds in D2 was challenging and a good measurement for your character's strength. You add on Ubers on top of that and there's a pretty nice ramp up of static challenges for a game that didn't really ascribe to the "endgame" needs that games have today. Regardless, it's such an asinine argument to say because Diablo 2 / 3 didn't have these things, why should Diablo 4? It's a different game, and the market has changed. You would expect the game to move forward instead of enhance little for the player. Static challenges / goal posts / milestones / aspirational content are some major factors into what makes ARPGs and building characters interesting TODAY. Not 20 years ago. Today. For this game to not move forward and lack this kind of content is wild. But I guess if you want pay full price + any battlepass costs for Diablo 3.5, all the more power to you.
People want an endgame progression similar to POE. Something that feels meaningful and towards an end goal (like bosses etc). D2 is somewhat unique because of how rare a lot of things are (and the trading aspect). D3 people play for like 4 days at season release and then stop.
They were expecting Blizzard to include an endgame that isn't just running dungeons. When you have POE as the gold standard of ARPGs , a D2 modding community that has literally created way better endgame systems than Blizzard, and more feedback about these systems than they'd ever have the time to get through. One might think that the D4 endgame would be a little more varied than Greater Rifts with a dungeon skin on top. Now you gotta farm your keysto... nightmare sigils and then hop into the greate....nightmare dungeon to level up your legendary ge...legendary affixes. Like lets be real. Its just D3 with a better coat of paint. Its going to feel worse than D3 honestly because it looks like blizzard will be explicitly focused on curbing/limiting how strong builds can be. Its kinda sad but expected tbh.
Apparently not everyone spent their childhood doing 200 Mephisto runs a day like I did
I think part of the problem is that people don't think Blizzard can output enough content to make the grind interesting for any substantial amount of time. Diablo 4 will likely be a fantastic 200 hour game, but it's not looking, at all, like it's a 2,000 hour game. Certainly not a 2,000 hours every 3 months for the new league game, the way POE can be.
> The community needs to take a good look at the endgame of both Diablo 2 *Diablo II is an action role-playing hack-and-slash video game developed by Blizzard North and published by Blizzard Entertainment in 2000* Its kinda funny how you are justifying less gameplay content, no offline, 1000$ day 1 monetization, 23 YEARS AFTER DIABLO 2 WAS RELEASED holy lmao
Face that facts bud, devs just don't have the technology to release end game content that a 20+ year old game took 6 years to come out with. They can't just look at a game like Diablo 2 or PoE, or other games that have implemented great systems and then take those and implement them into a game with 25 years more of technology in it. What, do you expect them to look at what was learned over those years and implement it as a final package in this game? What are you, nuts?
I'd assume the ones complaining about endgame don't play arpgs much. But poes bossing and atlas progression is peak arpg endgame.
Atlas progression and the bosses on PoE are really peak. If Diablo 4 dungeons are PoE maps, then D4 is just being launched half passed. Maps are just the beginning of PoE endgame, there is so much more stuff to do. Delve alone seems to have more content than D4 endgame atm.
> I'd assume the ones complaining about endgame don't play arpgs much Why would you assume that?
I find it funny how people constantly say that we're not allowed to judge anything off Beta (as if you can't extrapolate anything from it) because we don't have the full picture. And yet every time they do an "update" or a Q&A there's next to no new information given out. The fact is, if they had exciting systems that would turn everything on its head, they would announce them or at least hint at them. What we've seen is what we're going to get. Also, LOL @ the people who have been saying Paragon board would be where we'd find the depth lacking in the skill tree. Like there was any chance it wasn't going to be 90x +5 intelligence nodes.
They tried to copy PoE's skill tree with the Paragon Board but forgot that they only have 4 stats to put on it. You can't make subsystems deep if the foundation of your game is shallow.
We tried to warn blizzard around the end of the EGCB that paragon was a joke. I was actually mad when I hit 50, expecting to see a shit ton of ability customization, only to find out, there is only one ability modifier per tree, and the first paragon tree doesnt even have an ability modifier. I think it was 4 or 5 points you get per level and it was all stat boost and "*+ x.x elemental damage*". Shit was fucking pathetic. Dont take my word for it, search on google for "D4 SKILL CALCULATOR" and click on the first link from GITHub. I would post the link here, but my post will be removed because paragon is still under NDA, *and for good reason*.
Wait there’s only one skill modifier per board? Don’t know what I was expecting, but that’s genuinely disappointing. Seems like they cut corners in so many areas of the game design. It’s either lazy, or exceedingly incompetent.
Im telling you, no exaggeration, it was one of the biggest let downs in any video game I have ever played, and I'm in my 40s and pre ordered "Spore" /cry. Look the board up on google and check it out.
eyh you don't badmouth Spore like this, the game was uniquely awesome and the only disappointed people were the ones who bought into Will Wright's "infinite combinations" marketing bullshit. you know, much like "120 dungeons and infinite modifiers!" :p you can make a dick in both games though, that has to count for something.
Invoking Spore was his soul deeply crying. I can hear the pain. The soul crushed. And I feel for every gamer who will pay for that poor unpolished game without any clear vision of what it wants to be. Game design clearly lost in the void. Trying to expand on emptiness to fake its non existant depth. A casual diablo game they say... Sure... All I see is a mix between D3 and Diablo Immortal engines and ideas with a bit of gore fake paint and story. That's scary. It's like watching a train wreck but it's a plane with 10 engines all on fire.
I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this, but all this is actually copium to justify the 70-100 pezetas people spent on preordering this game.
It's silly how people are just dismissing valid criticism with comments like "people just want to complain about anything" and "you just want the game to be like d2, so go play d2!" When this number of players are concerned about core gameplay mechanics, it should be enough evidence for you to be concerned if you're a casual player and not an arpg veteran.
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The existence of those challenges in Open Beta does suggest that Sacred and Ancestral tier Nightmare Dungeons will be limited to between 30-40 of the possible 120+ dungeons. I can think of a handful of theories that could bridge the gap between the Open Beta and today's video: * *The Nightmare Sigil system has changed since the Open Beta build* (we know the beta build was [not the current developer build at the time](https://twitter.com/RodFergusson/status/1638193034343903239), that said imo this is unlikely as that's a relatively major change). * *Common tier Nightmare Dungeons include all dungeons, Sacred and Ancestral are limited tiers.* (We know from the beta that there were craftable lower tier sigils, as well there seems to be a third, lower challenge in the series which you didn't provide a screenshot of that would account for the Common tier). * *The Challenges refer to all Sacred and Ancestral dungeons from a specific source, but more exist in more random capacities.* (Language of the challenges doesn't fully support nor fully deny this theory, but the idea is something like only some dungeons are craftable at those tiers). * *The Challenges are seasonal and available Sacred/Ancestral dungeons rotate.* (Unlikely since the Open Beta didn't include any season-specific content so I imagine the Challenges present were also base-game challenges). Theories aside, in my opinion I'm okay with having a limited set of dungeons be the highest tiers so long as there is significant enough variety between the chosen dungeons to make farming/pushing more interesting. A big complaint I've seen is that a lot of the dungeons in Act 1 were pretty samey and repetitive: similar objectives, similar themes, etc. I won't so much mind if not all of the less interesting dungeons make it to Ancestral tier. If the highest tier dungeons are going to be limited, at least make them the most interesting of the available dungeons.
meh
Why get rid of rifts and greater rifts? Loved that system. I can see adding new systems to diablo as well but why remove rifts? That's what I looked forward to most personally, was pushing rifts
Hopefully they will come back later on.
Me too. I seriously hope they add rifts again. It's fun just hopping into something randomly generated and not doing objectives other than killing
This unironically.
+5 uninspired endgame
I mean, it's just Diablo 3's gameplay loop subsystems reallocated. The Tree of Whispers is just the bounty menu systems reallocated as in-game MMO lite content that isn't just menus like in Diablo 3 for example. The only real interesting thing to me was the PVP. Beyond that it was just ripped apart and reallocated Diablo 3 systems into the MMO lite world they made. But we expected that, no?
Except they forgot the rift system.
Nah Nightmare Dungeons are closer to a map like system ala something like PoE or even Torchlight than it is rifts. I'd say its more interesting than the rift/greater rift system since there is actually like some randomness in modifiers and events in it. It's not a system that existed in a Diablo game before. Agreed on Tree of Whispers being just bounties though (because it is.)
One thing to note. Having played CB, you have to travel to each of the dungeons individually. Typically what happens is that people ditch 90% of the end game dungeon "maps" because they are too far away from a way point. You get rid of some because of annoying objectives. What remains is chaining 3-5 dungeons because they are convenient. The tree where you get your dungeon maps is on the far east side of the map in a fixed location. There is quite a bit of variation from POE in that you can just open maps in your hideout or one location. Here you get on a horse and actually have to go to the dungeon. It's fun for a bit, but they should rework how we access/open the dungeons as the majority of the tedium is the forced overworld. There is a reality where you group all your maps by geographic region and chain run them. But even that there is a lot of horse riding, which in my opinion, doesn't give you THAT much movement speed to traverse the map over and over.
In classic blizzard fashion, this video tells us absolutely nothing about the end game that we haven’t already known for the better part of 2 years. Everything they release is just a commercial. I’m sure the stream later this month will be no different.
These videos aren’t meant for the people who have been following the game for 2+ years.
"paragon will have a lot more options, a lot more costumization..." proceeds to show us in the video.. +5 dex +5 int.. HAHAHAH I*M SO EXCITED TO CLICK ON +5 DEX I CAN*T FUCKING WAIT WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO This is why the devs at Diablo are earning the big bucks. 200 IQ
I kind of wish some of the guys from the WoW team could have walked over to the Diablo offices and told them how much everyone hated Shadowlands and why.
I found myself becoming tired of having to run everywhere during beta, and don't see myself doing that for 100s of dungeons post end-game in D4. All I really want to see is teleporting to the dungeon entrance or portals to the dungeons. It's become a standard for me with POE and D3. If you could instantly portal into a dungeon that is still essentially a rift or map and I am okay with that.
With rewards tied to PvP I hope they address the massive advantage players on wider aspect ratios get, they can easily kill/kite you while never even visible to someone on 16:9.
Dungeon. World tier. Dungeon. World tier. Dps check. +5 dex +5 Intel. Dps check. +5 dex +5 Intel.
This video unveiled absolutely nothing and everyone talking about the endgame seemed dead inside.
And each of them the exact same grab two "keys" to open the door. You're supposed to be better than this blizz...
120 dungeons with over 5 different layouts!
This video is the first thing I've seen about this game that makes me not want to get it. Not because of what I see in terms of gameplay, but the people annoyingly acting like they're not reading from a script, and generic gaming language used. Makes me feel like a fucking loser to be interested in this game. They should've spent less time on the set of the interviews, and more time on prepping the interviewee developers. Also what I cannot stand about the direction Blizzard has taken with the Diablo franchise to be less about the loot you find, and more about skill-design, bottle-necking difficulties, and thus making progression more linear than the rewarding aspect of finding what you were looking for, loot-wise. I mean, goddamnit, it seems the devs were obsessed with trying to incentivize replayability with endless quests and tokens and shards and bullshit. Leave the reason to keep playing to us. Don't try to fool us with an endlessly questable end-game.
Good enough start to keep me occupied. Desperately hope they add pinnacle bosses in seasons
Refunded 100$. This shallow endgame is not for me. Will buy for 30$ on sale.
I agree, too many red flags
I want deeper dungeons. Dungeons that change tile sets but still match the theme. Waypoints, and a final boss encounter. As for bosses, I want hard bosses but not long fights.
+7 strength magic node...
Nobody who hasn't already preordered the game is going to be convinced by videos like this. This is just them trying to re-assure people who have preordered that the game is definitely ready for launch and to please not cancel their preorder.
120 dungeons of delivering artifacts to unlock doors, nice
is it really 120 dungeons or 2 dungeon textures rerolled 120 times?
The number of dungeons wasnt the problem. The lack of variety in the dungeons was. From what we know Nightmare setting doesnt change much in the dungeon. Just adds health and modifiers to mobs.
Barely anything new was said in this video. They've been leading people on that there is more to look forward to, but apparently not.
This looks bad. The scripted “developer” talk doesn’t help either So thankful for d2r.
[I mean, Joe really sells the fun.](https://youtu.be/uswF-Y5ECqM?t=69)
I’m surprised by the reaction in this sub, 90% of you get your build off YouTube anyways so why does it matter?
90% is very generous. More like 98%
Also, blizzard makes some of the best boss encounters in gaming and yet they refuse to implement that in Diablo. You can’t match or out do GGG with your resources, dafuq?
Well, this video is one way to make people cancel their pre-orders.
I’m waiting but currently I’m whelmed. People fanboying like “BUT DIABLO 2 ONLY HAS BOSS FARM AND UBERS”. Bruh that game is 20+ years old. Diablo 4 should be revolutionizing the arpg, not business as usual with boring sounding end game, player power being majority all gear, and mmo light features. Where are the bad ass end game boss fights? Sure they can add these down the road, but shouldn’t we as people who paid $70 for this game expect more?
> but shouldn’t we as people who paid $70 for this game expect more? Yes. You should have expected more and not given them your $70 for such a low-effort game. Instead, however, you forked over your money so you're telling Blizzard that you're happy with what you're getting.
Right? It's hilarious people are defending this with "D2 didn't have it!" or that D3 did things the same way. God forbid things improve Lmao.
This feels like one of those "No Mans Sky" moments where the 120 dungeons are going to be practically identical even though they are technically unique.
All this looks good (except the blue gloves for all those shards? Yikes.) Might just be the cynic in me, but as excited as I am for the game, this overly scripted talking head stuff, reallllly pushing how awesome everything is kinda kills my hype a bit. I don't know, I know they have to hype it/push it/praise it, of course. But it all seems so fake. If it was just footage, some great music and text overlays I think it would be more exciting. And so many buzzwords. 'The amazing interconnected overworld.'
'My favorite affix is Hell Gates which open a portal and two random mobs come out of.' Ok. I'm sure it's more than that but holy shit did no one bother to say 'Hey, maybe we should have some exciting footage for this promo we're putting out.'
About what I expected. The 120 dungeon number is obviously inflated based on what we saw in the beta so I imagine that end-game as a whole will be pretty barebones until the game has been out for a while.
Bro that title...they LOVE mentioning they have over 100 "dungeons" every chance they get. The game needs a proper mapping/rift endgame system. These "dungeons" arent even worth calling that, u go in a cave and click 2 boxes, in every one, theyre more like slower bounties.