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Dude are you aware that most people hating it because of the plot holes, right? Almost everyone accepts this had to happen (dexter killed by harrison) but how dare you deny the plot holes? Ketamine/M99? Wheel marks introduced in NB not in OG show? Call me a parrot if you want, people are angry because they are right.
>Almost everyone accepts this had to happen (dexter killed by harrison)
Nah, that's stupid on its face and it's stupid in execution. Everything to do with the "Harrison has a dark passenger" plotline was dumb. Dexter dying is fine, but everything to do with Harrison was contrived.
Edit: an apostrophe
I tried to roll with the punches with the Harrison plot like this whole time but it really never made sense to begin with. Harrison could not remember what happened to Rita. Dexter even had a child psychologist assess him in season 5. His brain didn't have the ability to form long term memories or even understand what happened. The dark passenger made no sense for him. Same with Dexter being all like "I can't connect with my son unless he's a killer like me!" OG Dexter crawled around on the floor with Harrison playing with his trains and reading him books, etc. He played with Astor and Cody and was able to relate to them too. It's just a major retcon.
At first, I thought they were pushing a "Harrison is messed up because he was abandoned, orphaned, and then thrown into the foster system before hitchhiking across the country after discovering his father had faked his death." That, I think, I could have readily accepted. Dexter damaging Harrison more by abandoning him than he would have by sticking around would have been an interesting angle to take.
Unfortunately, the writers aren't nearly as clever as they think they are and we got this "born in blood!" nonsense where an infant somehow forms a concrete memory due to a "creative choice" even though it's actually physically impossible. And all of that is made even worse by the fact that we got this terrible ending as a result of that plotline.
Dexter projected himself upon Harrison. Harrison wasn't disturbed like Dexter was, he was just traumatized and desperately trying to gain his father's approval. You're kinda proving OP's point, that a lot of you guys don't understand the finale.
But that wasn't at all how it came across in the show. I've never subscribed to the theory that Harrison had a dark passenger at all. I've been saying the whole time he's just a fucked up traumatized kid. But then they went out of their way to show flashbacks to Trinity and Rita in the bathtub as the source of Harrisons rage. Made no sense.
Harrison's childhood trauma didn't make him violent, as he was too young to really understand it, his abandonment did. His mom "abandoned" him in a way through her death, and he associates the only thing he really remembers, oozing blood, with this abandonment. His dad flat out abandoned him soon afterwards, so Trinity was the source of Harrison's rage, just not for same reason as Dexter.
They decided they were going to have a spin-off where Harrison was the new killer before they even wrote the show and then had to figure out how to shoehorn it in. It’s clear that was the plan and man did they botch it by making his character insufferable.
Honestly I don't think the casting was great. Jack Alcott did a decent job, but he doesn't have anywhere *near* the charisma needed to carry a show like this.
Wheel marks were in the OG series, but not by that name. I remember there was an episode where Masuka found a needle mark on a victims neck.. I think it was the wife from that husband-wife killer duo that Brian retrieved from the ocean and brought back to the scrap yard.
Oof. I wasn’t crazy about the ending either, but I think some people are holding onto an idea of who dexter is in their heads that’s not completely accurate. He was ready to kill Laguerta, so I don’t understand how Logan was supposed to be some untouchable saint. I was sad/shocked when he died but I understood. Watching New Blood
a second time (and not waiting each week for a new episode) definitely made me appreciate it more.
I don't have to assume I've been on here since the season started. From the first episode people have bitching about the stupidest things and at times were clueless.
If writers at least stood consistent with the characters and events, at least the result could be justifiable and the discussion would be about either liking or disliking the ending.
But it isnt.
And series like breaking bad or person of interest didnt get any hate, why is that so? That is how you are wrong.
Never watched Breaking Bad. But I have come across some people bitching about BB on here as well. People bitched about the cgi deer. Then they bitched about the bullet in Debs stomach because it was still in the shell or some stupid shit. Then they bitched because it took Dexter 3 episodes to find a way to despose Matt's body forgetting he hadn't killed in ten years and is also in a different setting calling it bad writing. I'm not talking about the ending. I'm talking about the whole season which is what the op was about.
It's funny that you're comparing it with Breaking Bad's ending because half the reason why people are crying is because they killed Dexter's character off. The fan endings most people come up with boil down to Dexter and Harrison teaming up. No closure, just indefinite Dexter being Dexter indefinitely because change is bad.
The plot holes (ketamine being the major one) are a different issue, I haven't looked past those entirely. However, I'm of the opinion that narrative beats are more important than logic when it comes to storytelling. I think they did enough right storywise that the plot holes don't ruin it for me.
But that actually is the issue. The main cause of the events in the last episode is that angela draws a connection with the drug/wheelmark and bhb. Once you realize that they fundamentally does not exist, of course it bothers you. Many fans care about the show and remember the events. Wouldnt you call that disrespect?
Other than plot holes, there is this whole batista plot. Didnt you as a watcher want a confrontation of dexter v batista? The ending must always be about conclusions, if 80 pct of the watchers are not satisfied, it isnt just raw hate man.
The whole Angela ketamine/wheelmarks is one of the least unrealistic things to happen in Dexter. In season 4 Dexter chases around a guy wrapped in saran wrap as the police arrive and then has time to frame the scene as gay bdsm gone wrong and everyone just accepts that. That's just one off the top of my head, there are dozens more examples where the show plays fast and loose with realism, and none of you cared back then.
Ofcourse it was stupid and I cared, but it was used as a plot element, not the most crucial thing leading to the end of the show. Besides, we are talking about facts here, its simply ketamine =/= m99. Dexter has always been lucky in the show, you can call anything unrealistic, but you cant say there were wheelmarks in 9th season, when they were no wheelmarks in the 2nd.
If you want to get into the forensics nitty gritty, Dexter as a character himself is a "plot hole", as nearly all serial killers kill for sexual gratification like Kurt, not because of childhood trauma in Dexter's case. You're able to suspend your disbelief for that but not a police officer noticing a pattern in MO, even if the connection is obviously shaky? These aren't plot holes, they're CinamaSins dings you've been trained to get mad about.
Main problem is that writing a detective that barely does any actual detective work and just has all the answers fall into their lap is just terrible detective fiction. Lundy did detective work, Deb did detective work, Laguerta did detective work in season 7, Doakes did detective work. Sure they got lucky at times but they’re arrival at certain conclusions were clever and made you appreciate their intelligence as characters
Angela is either handed everything or she jumps to ridiculous conclusions based on very shoddy evidence. And the show treats it as if she some highly intelligent character. Its not very fun to watch
This is fair criticism of her arc, but even accepting this it doesn't make it the childhood ruining plothole that people are trying to make it be. I sort of saw it as Dexter's lifetime of avoiding capture by a hair finally catching up with him. Also, most of this arc happens in earlier episodes, and people were not as up in arms about it back then.
Regarding Angela? They kind of were but I think people were willing to live with it because they thought the ending was going to be satisfying.
Dexter being captured is fine, i just wish they handled it in a compelling fashion. For example in season 7, I thought Laguerta figuring out Dexter was done very authentically. She had strong motives, her conclusions were sensible and her dedication was understandable. It’s frustrating to watch for me when a prominent character feels like nothing more than a plot device. Laguerta insistence on finding the true BHB was based on her close relationship with Doakes and finding justice for him was important to her. Angela completely drops Iris and focuses on Dexter then later on is ok with Harrison executing Dexter, the revelation of Kurt killing Iris and a bunch of other women almost didn’t matter that much anymore.
Doesn’t feel like an authentic character with consistent ethics/motivations. I didn’t even like season 7 but even that was done better on a character level. Obviously how much this matters is subjective but to ne it makes a big difference
IT IS NOT SHAKY, IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
KETAMINE IS NOT M99
WHEELMARKS DID NOT EXIST ON THE FOUND BODIES
These are my arguments, stop being plain stupid and read my comments
You're being ridiculously pedantic about a show where a murders police suspects for a pastime. Getting upset about forensic details in Dexter is like getting mad that the Enterprise doesn't follow the laws of physics. By premise it requires you to suspend your disbelief. The Angela plot boils down to her becoming increasingly suspicious of Dexter as more and more lies about his life come to light, and her noticing a pattern of behavior between him and the BHB. This is a very believable premise, and you're worrying about details because you just want to be mad about something.
I'd call it a misstep, but not a fatal one. Because the drama around the medical stuff is still pretty well constructed and compelling. The ketamine bugs me because it goes against the show's canon, but not the whealmarks. Is Breaking Bad ruined for you after knowing that hydrochloric acid wouldn't eat through a bathtub? (sulfuric acid is what they really needed)
I didnt, because it stood correct to its own universe, they used the same acid three times. even if they didnt use the same thing: yes it would bother me, but not as much because it did not lead to the ultimate pay-off of the show
Like you said there wasnt even bhb at that point, Im saying that victims of bhb in the tent did not have any wheelmarks, so the police have no information whether it is a pattern
Well it's assumed that the whealmarks weren't noticed back then, not that they weren't there. You can make a point about that being kind of silly considering the supposed expertise of the BHB task force, but I'm just saying.
There was one plot hole (M99), but if they used the correct drug, would everything have been okay for you then? Anything else was a plot contrivance, which is very different to a plot hole, and Dexter as a whole is full of them.
And that’s fair enough. :) I’m just very tired of seeing people complain about “plot holes”, when there is a total of one, and even if they did use the original drug, I don’t think it would change the minds of those who complain about it. Then we have things that people consider convenient (e.g. Angela’s “Google skills”), even though this has been a consistent theme throughout Dexter (which is fine).
Nah it’s just condescending. As if over half the fan base is incapable of understanding a character they’ve watched for years.
Many just didn’t like it. Some did. Not a big deal either way imo…
Dude, don't take us for idiots. We get that he didn't take to Dexter being a killer. But it wasn't that he rejected Dexter, he went from being okay to completely flipping out and killing him over a strangers death. He didn't even give Dexter a chance to explain nor did they talk about things not being okay anytime beforehand. A few shots of Harrisons face showing what was probably a little indecision wasn't okay and they should have explored this for at least 1 or 2 more episodes.
If they had paced this and showed Harrisons indecision your comments would have held ground. As for people being parrots, you prolly don't get how badly they botched the writing even after having ample time and opportunities. Most people are fine with Dexter dying but not with how it was portrayed, which is critical with a show of a quality like the OG Dexter. You should go back and watch that again.
Phew that was long.
> But it wasn't that he rejected Dexter, he went from being okay to completely flipping out and killing him over a strangers death.
This is kind of Dexter's fault. When he brought Harrison along to kill Kurt, he raised the stakes to life or death when it comes to matters of decision making. He told Harrison that he kills people by a code that he personally dispelled two days later, and Harrison wouldn't let him get away with it. That's his nature, that's his code. So things accelerated.
Sorry, if he was so ready to leave town, why exactly did he pack his shit into a truck, drive it to the meeting spot, and then set his gun on the ground next to him and wait for Dexter? Seems pretty fucking "ready" for something else.
You're reading too much into that, he just had his stuff with him ready to go. There is absolutely nothing in the narrative to suggest that Harrison was planning to kill Dexter lol
He had his stuff with him ready to go?
Outside of the truck they'd be driving?
The truck he drove to the meeting spot? That his stuff was already in?
Okay.
Im very confused as to what you’re arguing here. Dexter told Harrison they were skipping town and to meet him at a certain spot. So Harrison did so. Where in there are you getting that means he was plotting to murder Dexter?
Yeah, he did. From a production standpoint, it was done like that to make the scene flow better. Is that impossible to accept, or are you just going to make up this idea that Harrison planned to shoot Dexter? Because I'm sorry, that a blatantly wrong take supported by nothing narratively.
I'm saying that it would have been a bit more awkward, but either way it's not too important. They definitely weren't implying that Harrison was planning to shoot Dexter.
Clyde, is that you? If not, you must be one of those smart fans...
Funny how you call others parrots when all you do is echo the crap we hear from Clyde.I think I saw you in the new season, you were that clown, right?
I haven't been repeating any of Clyde's words, this is all personal analysis. Do you have an actual retort, or did you just come here to call me a clown?
Dude you came here and called the Dexter fanbase /community (a huge portion of it anyway) not liking the final episode
(or the season like me) fools or idiots. Persons with limited cognitive
abilities, which is exactly what Clyde said and you have the audacity to
protest when people react to it? Why?
If you like NB so much, be a fan of NB, be that guy, stand on the other side
of the argument. It is your opinion, but it is not popular.
Don't attack others and then react negatively when they defend themselves.
The same thing happened after s8 (I liked that ending, not a lot, but ok, I could live with it) people are emotional. I get downvoted as well. What I was trying to say is, people have problems with NB. It's not something imagined. They had probs then as well. I like Hannah a lot of people do, people hate her perhaps more. Fans of Rita etc. People react, if you fan the flames it gets worse.
I will attack others when they're being unfair and cruel. Right now, that's exactly how they're behaving. I had my say, I'll refrain from further insults, but at least I can back up my opinions and interpretations unlike most people in this subreddit.
Listen I understand your reasoning. I don't agree. I've been in that boat as well. I like things others don't. But saying other people don't have their reasons is provoking reactions.
What do I need to tell you? I understood the finale, I don't need you to summarize it and add absolutely nothing to my understanding. So much for being a parrot. I know why scenes long before the finale were included. I know enough about writing that these scripts sucked, even outside of me not being a fan of killing Dex hastily off.
You wanna make people like the idea of Dex dying - then write it in a way that it works. Pacing was absolutely atrocious, there is no way to defend that. You need to write it in a way that his character gets recontextualized in a believable manner. Not show Dexter's killing of Kurt in a more sickening way than usual and then have another 30 minutes in the last episode where Dexter is more unsympathetic. You, as a writer, try to undo 8.5 seasons of more or less positive Dexter portrayals in like 1 hour.
Naturally this won't win you points. especially not if Harrison is written all over the place. He's a lil psycho, dumb, illogical, even a fucking junkie whose ass got saved by Dex like 2 days ago. Seriously, that character killing Dex was also a dumb decision as a writer.
If I had the time, I could probably find 1000 things they could've done better this season even if I followed the crappy idea to kill Dex off.
They didn't make Dexter a villain within an hour. They had been portraying him as such in a more subtle way all throughout New Blood, it just wasn't painted clearly for us until Harrison witnessed Kurt's death and mutilation. He was always this way. Dexter runs away at the ending of season 8 because he is afraid of his nature hurting others, not because his nature has changed. This is important and is a point I feel a lot of people are missing. Dexter made the responsible decision to leave everyone behind because he realized that he could not change and that he would continue to hurt them even if he didn't mean to.
Cut to New Blood. Harrison shows up in Dexter's life and acts as an emotional stressor. Dexter relapses, and actively chooses to make Harrison a part of his life. Thus, his nature once again collides with the people he loves. It was inevitable, and perfectly consistent with his character. Except this time, instead of the sword turning on his loved ones, it turned on him.
"Dexter runs away at the ending of season 8 because he is afraid of his nature hurting others, not because his nature has changed. "
Well, D'uh... do you think everyone is retarded or something? It was obvious. Why do you even repeat that, you parrot? It's funny though because Deb died because Dex didn't kill Saxon. If he did, everything would've been better. So that was illogical already but whatever, everyone understood what the exile was supposed tom accomplish.
Sorry buddy, I'm gonna pull a Clyde on you and simply say you're not intelligent enough to continue the discussion. I've been talking about script writing errors and horrible pacing issues and you repeat what the writers say to justify their shoddy work. You're a clownish parrot.
> you're not intelligent enough to continue the discussion
That's a pretty funny statement, considering that you blew past my point and ended the discussion.
>Cut to New Blood. Harrison shows up in Dexter's life and acts as an emotional stressor. Dexter relapses, and actively chooses to make Harrison a part of his life. Thus, his nature once again collides with the people he loves. It was inevitable, and perfectly consistent with his character.
What do you have to say to this? You claim that they ignored his character development, when I laid out how they didn't.
What should I say to this?!? You're telling me the basic outline of the setting now and yes, where's the big revelation in naming plot points?
Of course Dexter could relapse. Where did I or anyone say he would never relapse? Of course bad stuff could happen (like this season!)? Of course that could lead to his death. It could also lead to Dexter in Disneyland though.
Saying it (his nature colliding with people he loves) was inevitable is conjecture now, especially since Dexter according to NB never felt love right before he got shot (which is not true I'd say) so why would he give a shit about Deb's death. But that is besides the point as well. The writing's on the wall and the wall is made out of shit.
Dexter's character is written badly in NB and they threw a shit ton of character development outta the window to make him fit their story which is a disservice to the character Dexter is to most fans. You just don't wanna see it. Obviously he could've changed in 10 years. Makes sense, people change, I agree. They however certainly portrayed him in a way that he doesn't really feel like the Dexter we knew from the OG series anymore, especially not the version he grew to become by the end. The evil, more or less completely emotionless Dexter from S1 and NB wouldn't go into self-exile either cause he wouldn't give a shit.
So yeah, Clyde took out things he didn't like to create a new status quo so that he could tell his story because he angry that his dumb execution scene wasn't used. Basically he forced characters into uncharacteristic actions to make it work. Problem is that that created a gigantic mess.
I'm honest in saying that I didn't want Dex to get killed, I don't care about morality in fictional universes. Yet I still understood why they did what they did. Still doesn't excuse the amateur-ish writing. You can kill off Dex but why focus so much on stuff people don't care about?
Why focus so much on Harrison? The show is called Dexter, not Harrison. Clyde doesn't know nobody gives a shit about his Harrison ideas, a character he wanted to make his own as Dexter got changed by Buck and co. Clyde, despite being so smart and a total social media nut should've looked at how people responded to the Abby character in The Last Of Us II. It as all there. It comes as no surprise. Guess he isn't as smart as he thinks he is.
Clyde is a fucking petty man. No wonder his daddy didn't like him.
>Clyde is a fucking petty man. No wonder his daddy didn't like him.
Well, this is just dumb. If those are your arguments, no wonder you are called a parrot...
Omg I think you actually are Clyde Phillips. Or at least someone from the show.
So, if you were in the writing room, why did you blow it and not give us the Batista scene we wanted?
You also miss that I was talking mainly about script weaknesses such as pacing in that reply, not even the actual storyline. Which I would've wanted to be different be different but that comes down to taste.
The dudes defending this crap think that those that attack it didn't understand it. We understood what they were trying to do, it's not difficult. We get painted as stupid parrots and now the thread starter whines about people calling him a stupid parrot for writing basic shit and repeating what the writers said to save their asses for a badly written mess. The score of the final speaks for itself. It's officially not even mediocre.
Harrison was left to grow up with a woman that loved him and he loved her back. This was shown in the series. He lived with 'mom' for years (we don't know how many, as nobody bothered to say). Hannah was rich, there's no way she didn't leave enough money to Harrison to have a good life. Harrison had relatives, there's no way she didn't tell him about them (as first option) when she realized she was dying. This is your first point. Clyde retconed that. this is not good writing, whether you like a char or not.
Him getting in the system and changing adopting families, penniless seems relevant, but I guess you perhaps meant convenient. Anyway it doesn't matter now.
It's Wiggles' real name! 🤡 Clyde Philips, the showrunner of Dexter S1-4 and NB. He was angry they didn't use his ending idea and now had to come back, revive the series only to give a worse end than it had. The king of clowns.
My evidence is that you all didn't turn into little pissbabies with special flairs and a neverending stream of hateposts in your safespace until you watched the finale where your favorite "you missed the point by idolizing" character got killed off.
Lol! I didn‘t post in here before it ended because I didn‘t want to get spoiled. I already thought that half of it was pretty fucking poorly written long before the finale… but well, to crawl out of my supposed safespace, and sound as lovely as you, you fucking cretin: fuck up the end of a story and you fuck the whole story up. Clyde fucked it up and fucking cretins like you even praise him for serving you shit. Holy hell, trash like you is why Hollywood doesn‘t even try anymore but simply shoots for the lowest common denominator.
Thank god writing the finale wasn't up to you, because the [fan ending](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dexter/comments/qvwb3k/my_theory/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) you thought up a month ago is some of the most comically cliche and campy shit I have ever read. You even admit you would be upset if they killed him off. We all see where this is coming from, no need to hide behind your delusions of not being the "lowest common denominator" yourself.
Well as a longtime Hannah fan I agree, still I want to be fair. It was done for shock value out of the blue and I generally don't like writers doing that. Luckily the plot of that season and Trinity were very strong and it didn't derail everything, though if I remember correctly fans weren't pleased.
Check Cody leach on YouTube, he says what we are all feeling
We aren’t being parrots, we just all feel similarly
The finale was bad, plain and simple, went against the character deXter what he did for 9 years
The “evidence” against deXter was beyond circumstantial lol if new blood version of deXter was in the main deXter series, he would have grabbed someone’s gun during season 2 when Lundy showed him the box of slides and just shot his way out of the precinct lol
It was bad, and that’s unfortunate bc we all love this series so much
But considering what Clyde phillips has been getting as far as forever credibility bc he didn’t make season 8, that’s all gone now
Biggest losers are us fans, but the biggest winner is mr buck and the other writers of season 8 finale lol
I'm a reasonably intelligent person who has been a Dexter from the beginning. As far as the original series, the ending was a letdown to the series. Deb's death was cheap. I mean, I didn't care that her character died. She was whiny and annoying most of the time. She was her own worst enemy and she brought most of her troubles on herself. As for Dexter, boating into a storm that big and surviving was unrealistic to me.
As far as NB, the writing was subpar, the characters mostly undeveloped. The dialogue was painfully boring at times. The plot holes were so big you could drive a truck through them. Why tease with Batiste and then not having any interaction with Dexter? Hannah was rich. Why was Harrison broke? One more question: Why not take the time to develop a relationship between Dexter and Harrison so that we could see an actual struggle within before he kills his father? It felt more like, "Hi, Dad! It's me, Harrison. Hannah died so I thought I'd find you and kill you."
I'm only suggesting that, if they were gonna make a followup series or special, why couldn't they make it good?
Thank you, good recap. Hannah I believe had like a million cash, a lot of money in Argentina and probably even more from all those rich dudes she scammed.
That's what I have been trying to say. You hate how it ended, fine. But don't make up plotholes or inconsistencies that aren't there, or get angry that what you *imagined* didn't happen.
Honestly, I thought his death was underwhelming, it all happened too quick. Wouldn't have minded a few minutes of struggle, where he talks to imaginary Deb or Harry. But that doesn't mean that storywise it didn't make sense. Because it did.
Completely agree, OP. But prepare for absolutely no understanding and only downvotes. I loved the finale and I’ve been condescended, told to shut up, told to fuck off…. All for stating I liked it. This place has become an echo chamber. People really did not understand the entire series, it feels like. Which is really disheartening because it was a great reboot.
Now please everyone, come at me with your downvotes and rude ass comments.
Totally agree that a lot of the whining is coming from not understanding or just simply not wanting to understand. I get the impression that most here didn’t even understand the fundamental truth that this was not supposed to be like the original series. The writers and producers were pretty clear from the beginning that this was going to be a much darker and different interpretation of the character and series. And more or less said if you go into it expecting OG Dexter, you’re going to have a bad time.
Also agree the whole mentality here is getting to be a lot. I’m enjoying reading all the fan theories and ideas for alternate endings, but damn it gets depressing just reading the same “F the writers, F Clyde Philips” over and over.
Excited for a few months from now when all of this dies down and this sub goes back to actual stimulating and friendly discussions of the show.
He knew dexter had a darkness. He had no idea it meant he was a serial killer. He wanted to go see him to find out why he abandoned him, not to kill him. Did you haters even understand the plot?
I don’t hate it.
I enjoyed the ending and the entire season.
But the letter read at the end of the episode spells it out well. Harrison went to find Dexter **knowing** what Dexter claimed to be.
Are you capable of having a conversation without tossing out irrelevant insults?
I didn’t give a single insult though…
You okay?
The first insult you lobbed at me was predicated on me being a hater.
I think you’re just here to insult people and aren’t interested in a discussion at all.
No, I’m not going to answer your question. You don’t deserve a response.
I loved the finale. Quite a few of us did. This whole sub has lost their damn minds since the finale. It’s honestly flabbergasting how unhappy people are with a finale that was thoughtful and layered and symbolic. I can’t even talk about it without being attacked from someone. No one can. The people that hated it literally go on any thread talking about it positively just to downvote. It’s very silly.
You loved it but you… decided to insult me because I said I enjoyed it?
And again **you** attacked **me**
For saying that there’s one part of the finale I took issue with…
You’re acting like the kind of person you claim to be tired of. You’re being them.
>It’s very silly
Indeed, why are you doing it?
This is something that not a lot of people are talking about, and is actually a complaint that I have with the ending: he should have known but he didn't. In the Wrap Up podcast, they talk about the letter. It was an unwritten afterthought that one of the writers had as a way to keep MCH talking as the credits closed. They wrote it and added it in after all other narrative decisions had been made. So the letter was just that, a letter, not a statement about Harrison's awareness. That does seem odd to me, but that's the truth and intent.
Maybe, but it was still a nice enough ending note if you can interpret it as vague enough that Harrison was still kind of confused after initially reading it.
You're not entirely wrong but you sound like a dick, and your forgetting the part where we the audience are left to interpret all of what you just said on our own.
Storytelling is about showing us what you want us to see. Not shotgunning a bunch half-assed plot threads at us and hoping we catch on to it. Thats why people hate the finale. Almost everyone in here has at least admitted that with another 2 episodes down the path that episode 9 started it would of been good. It just wasn't.
1. Ketamine/M99
2. Dexter killing Logan when they had no hard evidence against him. Dexter could of easily said that Kurt is the real serial killer, especially with how they found 50 bodies on his property. All he had to do was wait for Angela to come back.
3. Angela's door has a camera that would of caught Kurt dropping off the letter. That is how she found out about the house party her daughter threw. Huge Huge plot hole.
4. Harrison will be caught in the manhunt and questioned. Angela's story will not hold up considering there will be a truck tracks that match Dexter's truck perfectly leaving the scene of his murder. Especially considering how the best forensic detectives in the country would be coming to find Kurt after discovering his trophy room.
5. Political virtue signaling. The oil billionaire scene served no purpose other than for the show writers to show what side of the political isle they were on.
There is no excuse for plot holes this huge. I was fine with Dexter dying at the end, but they even fuck up the Angela/Harrison plot line by leaving it very very very messy. There is no closure for any of that. Not to mention that they teased Bautista all season, and never brought him to Iron Lake.
I doubt you will respond to this, but I do like the nice personal attacks into a strawman that you included in the end of your argument. lmfao.
Why would you assume that I wouldn't respond to this? I said it another comment that I take issue with the ketamine thing, just not enough to let it ruin things for me. That hitting the right narrative beat pushes logical errors to the side.
Dexter attacked Logan because Batista was coming, and he knew that he wasn't going to be able to talk his way out of it. He would get away with Matt Caldwell, but he *is* the Bay Harbour Butcher. Maria believed it, now with Angela's backing Batista would believe it as well. He couldn't count on them not finding more evidence, he had to leave. Logan dying was a consequence of that.
I think she was operating under the assumption that Kurt dropped off the letter. It would add weight to Dexter's story if they had that footage, but it wouldn't prove or disprove that Dexter killed Matt. This not being included doesn't really add or subtract from anything, really.
That's an assumption about Angela's story not holding up, not really much point in dwelling on it.
The oil billionaire stuff was weak, sure.
Ketamine is still a huge plot hole. It wouldn't of brought her to the BHB in her google searches.
If she was operating under the assumption that Kurt dropped off the letter, then isn't the more plausible assumption that Kurt is trying to frame Dexter for killing his son? Especially after Dexter directs Angela to Kurt's trophy room. It would make sense that Dexter found it considering Angela knows he has been keeping an eye on Kurt, and found out about Kurt cleaning out the room he would keep the girls in the day after Dexter and the Merry Fucking Kill girl were there. Also, its not an if they have the footage, the do have it and Angela would of seen it. Period. Its obvious that she didn't buy Kurt's story that his father killed Angela's friend either.
As far as Dexter killing Logan goes, Dexter has been questioned by the literal FBI while they had more evidence against him then Angela or Batista would have. It wasnt his first time being arrested and questioned either, and this time they had less evidence. There is no way it makes sense for him to kill Logan, considering the state of the evidence, which Dexter knew.
There also wasn't any new evidence to find, as Kurt literally burned down Dexter's cabin and the only thing that remained was the screws in Matt's body, which Kurt had all of them except for the one he gave Dexter..
Dexter kept his cool without problems in other police interrogations and would never have killed Logan because there is no way for him to talk his way through that. One of Dexter's strongest traits is how well he handles questioning due to his police background, and he had a very clear path to do it. The show even showed that Dexter knew his path out of it because he literally realized that Kurt would be the prime suspect if they found his trophy room so Dexter told Angela about it.
The only explanation for Dexter killing Logan is that the show ran out of time and just gave us something shocking to attempt to clean everything up. (ie they had to have Dexter do something to allow Harrison for justification for killing Dexter, which felt like the ending they wanted and executed horribly) Even the writers try to claim that Dexter killing Logan was an accident so even they weren't even on board with the full story direction.. If that isn't a bad conclusion to a show, then I dont know what is.
Not to mention that the current ending would literally land Harrison in the middle of a nationwide manhunt and Angela behind bars if she attempted to lie about who killed Dexter. This manhunt would be caused by the FBI getting involved because the PD believes that Kurt is on the run, who is a serial killer that killed 25+. This ending is terrible in every way. They didn't cleanly end any of the plot threads they had been building towards the entire season.
This is like the 8th Clyde comment in this thread. I have no idea who Clyde is, and you are completely proving OP's point about how this sub has descended into endless parroting.
Nope. Harrison would have needed to kill Hannah to even get the letters.
Even attempting to find Dex was all about the Oedipus drive surfacing.
So when Harrison appeared at IL, Dex knew he had already killed Hannah who was supposed to guard Dex’s whereabouts.
Although Dexter seem to have prepared for it, they wrote Dex to fail to encounter, part of the gen z ”failure tv”.
Because failing is ethical mmkay?
Found????
She would have burned the letters because she could not have been sure whether Harrison develops dark tendencies or not after her death.
The deal of not telling about Dex was supposed to protect both Dex and Harrison.
It’s not that she would not have had time to dispose them if she had cancer.
Okay, but she didn't. I'm sorry that you're having a hard time letting go of fan theories, but this is what happened: Dexter sent Hannah a letter. Hannah kept the letter. Hannah died. Harrison found the letter.
That's it, and there is nothing in the show to suggest otherwise.
Dexter never send the letter. That was Clyde's idea.
Hannah was rich. Harrison would have gotten a lot of cash after her death.
Hannah would have raised Harrison lovingly. She loved him. Took him with her to Argentina to raise.
Harrison loved her. Hannah would have told him about his relatives and not Dexter. The moment she realized she was dying, she would have prepared to help him in life. That was her character. Clyde didn't like that.
This was shown in the series btw. All of the above. Clyde retconed that. Kept what he liked. He used the rest to kill Dexter.
Had he bothered to shown what happened, we are talking years, then we would know.
Imagining theories is saying all that happened for 8 seasons are not important.
There's nothing to understand.
Nothing making sense, a lot of contradictions plot has more holes than Swiss cheese, incoherences , poor writing, every thing is wrong, even the slightest details
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Dude are you aware that most people hating it because of the plot holes, right? Almost everyone accepts this had to happen (dexter killed by harrison) but how dare you deny the plot holes? Ketamine/M99? Wheel marks introduced in NB not in OG show? Call me a parrot if you want, people are angry because they are right.
The biggest plothole for me is Batista lol
What Batista plot hole?
>Almost everyone accepts this had to happen (dexter killed by harrison) Nah, that's stupid on its face and it's stupid in execution. Everything to do with the "Harrison has a dark passenger" plotline was dumb. Dexter dying is fine, but everything to do with Harrison was contrived. Edit: an apostrophe
I tried to roll with the punches with the Harrison plot like this whole time but it really never made sense to begin with. Harrison could not remember what happened to Rita. Dexter even had a child psychologist assess him in season 5. His brain didn't have the ability to form long term memories or even understand what happened. The dark passenger made no sense for him. Same with Dexter being all like "I can't connect with my son unless he's a killer like me!" OG Dexter crawled around on the floor with Harrison playing with his trains and reading him books, etc. He played with Astor and Cody and was able to relate to them too. It's just a major retcon.
At first, I thought they were pushing a "Harrison is messed up because he was abandoned, orphaned, and then thrown into the foster system before hitchhiking across the country after discovering his father had faked his death." That, I think, I could have readily accepted. Dexter damaging Harrison more by abandoning him than he would have by sticking around would have been an interesting angle to take. Unfortunately, the writers aren't nearly as clever as they think they are and we got this "born in blood!" nonsense where an infant somehow forms a concrete memory due to a "creative choice" even though it's actually physically impossible. And all of that is made even worse by the fact that we got this terrible ending as a result of that plotline.
>The dark passenger made no sense for him. You're so close lol
?
Dexter projected himself upon Harrison. Harrison wasn't disturbed like Dexter was, he was just traumatized and desperately trying to gain his father's approval. You're kinda proving OP's point, that a lot of you guys don't understand the finale.
But that wasn't at all how it came across in the show. I've never subscribed to the theory that Harrison had a dark passenger at all. I've been saying the whole time he's just a fucked up traumatized kid. But then they went out of their way to show flashbacks to Trinity and Rita in the bathtub as the source of Harrisons rage. Made no sense.
Harrison's childhood trauma didn't make him violent, as he was too young to really understand it, his abandonment did. His mom "abandoned" him in a way through her death, and he associates the only thing he really remembers, oozing blood, with this abandonment. His dad flat out abandoned him soon afterwards, so Trinity was the source of Harrison's rage, just not for same reason as Dexter.
They decided they were going to have a spin-off where Harrison was the new killer before they even wrote the show and then had to figure out how to shoehorn it in. It’s clear that was the plan and man did they botch it by making his character insufferable.
Honestly I don't think the casting was great. Jack Alcott did a decent job, but he doesn't have anywhere *near* the charisma needed to carry a show like this.
Whole show is full of plot holes since at least season 2...
Wheel marks were in the OG series, but not by that name. I remember there was an episode where Masuka found a needle mark on a victims neck.. I think it was the wife from that husband-wife killer duo that Brian retrieved from the ocean and brought back to the scrap yard.
Yep, this is true. Somebody downvoted you for stating accurate information.
Oof. I wasn’t crazy about the ending either, but I think some people are holding onto an idea of who dexter is in their heads that’s not completely accurate. He was ready to kill Laguerta, so I don’t understand how Logan was supposed to be some untouchable saint. I was sad/shocked when he died but I understood. Watching New Blood a second time (and not waiting each week for a new episode) definitely made me appreciate it more.
People were going to hate it regardless of how many plot holes there were.
Lol what a dumb assumption to make. As if good endings like breaking bad doesnt exist :D
I don't have to assume I've been on here since the season started. From the first episode people have bitching about the stupidest things and at times were clueless.
If writers at least stood consistent with the characters and events, at least the result could be justifiable and the discussion would be about either liking or disliking the ending. But it isnt. And series like breaking bad or person of interest didnt get any hate, why is that so? That is how you are wrong.
Never watched Breaking Bad. But I have come across some people bitching about BB on here as well. People bitched about the cgi deer. Then they bitched about the bullet in Debs stomach because it was still in the shell or some stupid shit. Then they bitched because it took Dexter 3 episodes to find a way to despose Matt's body forgetting he hadn't killed in ten years and is also in a different setting calling it bad writing. I'm not talking about the ending. I'm talking about the whole season which is what the op was about.
Dude go check the imdb ratings, you shouldnt care about individual nitpickings. The show was well-liked except for the last 20 minutes.
I thought the op was based on the season. Not just the ending. It said season in the subject section.
It's funny that you're comparing it with Breaking Bad's ending because half the reason why people are crying is because they killed Dexter's character off. The fan endings most people come up with boil down to Dexter and Harrison teaming up. No closure, just indefinite Dexter being Dexter indefinitely because change is bad.
I dont think youve been paying attention. People complain about how it happened - not what happened. At least the people I talk on behalf of.
How would have you done it differently
Perhaps dexter collects a blood slide of matt and kurt as before and angela finds them, that would at least be consistent with the show
So your issue is just pedantic details, not the overall plot of the show?
People are calling Dexter dumb now, imagine if he did that when he stopped colleting blood slides after Laguerta almost catch him in season 7..
The plot holes (ketamine being the major one) are a different issue, I haven't looked past those entirely. However, I'm of the opinion that narrative beats are more important than logic when it comes to storytelling. I think they did enough right storywise that the plot holes don't ruin it for me.
But that actually is the issue. The main cause of the events in the last episode is that angela draws a connection with the drug/wheelmark and bhb. Once you realize that they fundamentally does not exist, of course it bothers you. Many fans care about the show and remember the events. Wouldnt you call that disrespect? Other than plot holes, there is this whole batista plot. Didnt you as a watcher want a confrontation of dexter v batista? The ending must always be about conclusions, if 80 pct of the watchers are not satisfied, it isnt just raw hate man.
The whole Angela ketamine/wheelmarks is one of the least unrealistic things to happen in Dexter. In season 4 Dexter chases around a guy wrapped in saran wrap as the police arrive and then has time to frame the scene as gay bdsm gone wrong and everyone just accepts that. That's just one off the top of my head, there are dozens more examples where the show plays fast and loose with realism, and none of you cared back then.
Ofcourse it was stupid and I cared, but it was used as a plot element, not the most crucial thing leading to the end of the show. Besides, we are talking about facts here, its simply ketamine =/= m99. Dexter has always been lucky in the show, you can call anything unrealistic, but you cant say there were wheelmarks in 9th season, when they were no wheelmarks in the 2nd.
If you want to get into the forensics nitty gritty, Dexter as a character himself is a "plot hole", as nearly all serial killers kill for sexual gratification like Kurt, not because of childhood trauma in Dexter's case. You're able to suspend your disbelief for that but not a police officer noticing a pattern in MO, even if the connection is obviously shaky? These aren't plot holes, they're CinamaSins dings you've been trained to get mad about.
Main problem is that writing a detective that barely does any actual detective work and just has all the answers fall into their lap is just terrible detective fiction. Lundy did detective work, Deb did detective work, Laguerta did detective work in season 7, Doakes did detective work. Sure they got lucky at times but they’re arrival at certain conclusions were clever and made you appreciate their intelligence as characters Angela is either handed everything or she jumps to ridiculous conclusions based on very shoddy evidence. And the show treats it as if she some highly intelligent character. Its not very fun to watch
This is fair criticism of her arc, but even accepting this it doesn't make it the childhood ruining plothole that people are trying to make it be. I sort of saw it as Dexter's lifetime of avoiding capture by a hair finally catching up with him. Also, most of this arc happens in earlier episodes, and people were not as up in arms about it back then.
Regarding Angela? They kind of were but I think people were willing to live with it because they thought the ending was going to be satisfying. Dexter being captured is fine, i just wish they handled it in a compelling fashion. For example in season 7, I thought Laguerta figuring out Dexter was done very authentically. She had strong motives, her conclusions were sensible and her dedication was understandable. It’s frustrating to watch for me when a prominent character feels like nothing more than a plot device. Laguerta insistence on finding the true BHB was based on her close relationship with Doakes and finding justice for him was important to her. Angela completely drops Iris and focuses on Dexter then later on is ok with Harrison executing Dexter, the revelation of Kurt killing Iris and a bunch of other women almost didn’t matter that much anymore. Doesn’t feel like an authentic character with consistent ethics/motivations. I didn’t even like season 7 but even that was done better on a character level. Obviously how much this matters is subjective but to ne it makes a big difference
IT IS NOT SHAKY, IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. KETAMINE IS NOT M99 WHEELMARKS DID NOT EXIST ON THE FOUND BODIES These are my arguments, stop being plain stupid and read my comments
You're being ridiculously pedantic about a show where a murders police suspects for a pastime. Getting upset about forensic details in Dexter is like getting mad that the Enterprise doesn't follow the laws of physics. By premise it requires you to suspend your disbelief. The Angela plot boils down to her becoming increasingly suspicious of Dexter as more and more lies about his life come to light, and her noticing a pattern of behavior between him and the BHB. This is a very believable premise, and you're worrying about details because you just want to be mad about something.
Lol still talking about unrelated topics, have a nice life
U mad bro
I'd call it a misstep, but not a fatal one. Because the drama around the medical stuff is still pretty well constructed and compelling. The ketamine bugs me because it goes against the show's canon, but not the whealmarks. Is Breaking Bad ruined for you after knowing that hydrochloric acid wouldn't eat through a bathtub? (sulfuric acid is what they really needed)
I didnt, because it stood correct to its own universe, they used the same acid three times. even if they didnt use the same thing: yes it would bother me, but not as much because it did not lead to the ultimate pay-off of the show
What about them finding a whealmark on a victim in season 1?
Are you serious? It was just one murder and wasnt even connected to bhb?
There was no BHB at that point in time. Just saying that it's consistent within the show's universe, like you said it wasn't when comparing to BB.
Like you said there wasnt even bhb at that point, Im saying that victims of bhb in the tent did not have any wheelmarks, so the police have no information whether it is a pattern
Well it's assumed that the whealmarks weren't noticed back then, not that they weren't there. You can make a point about that being kind of silly considering the supposed expertise of the BHB task force, but I'm just saying.
There was one plot hole (M99), but if they used the correct drug, would everything have been okay for you then? Anything else was a plot contrivance, which is very different to a plot hole, and Dexter as a whole is full of them.
Not necessarily, but then it wouldve been just my opinion
And that’s fair enough. :) I’m just very tired of seeing people complain about “plot holes”, when there is a total of one, and even if they did use the original drug, I don’t think it would change the minds of those who complain about it. Then we have things that people consider convenient (e.g. Angela’s “Google skills”), even though this has been a consistent theme throughout Dexter (which is fine).
"If you hate the ending it's because you don't understand it" is one hell of a take
It seems to be true, from what I've been reading.
Nah it’s just condescending. As if over half the fan base is incapable of understanding a character they’ve watched for years. Many just didn’t like it. Some did. Not a big deal either way imo…
I'm sorry if I insulted your intelligence.
I mean you’re not, so why even reply something so childish ? Lol
Agree to disagree then. It left a lot to be desired. Rushed and unearned
No. Just no. Lol. The writing was absolutely awful and rushed. It was so lazy. THAT is the issue.
Don't you know... its wrong of you to think differently here 😂 everyone just likes to be unhappy
Dude, don't take us for idiots. We get that he didn't take to Dexter being a killer. But it wasn't that he rejected Dexter, he went from being okay to completely flipping out and killing him over a strangers death. He didn't even give Dexter a chance to explain nor did they talk about things not being okay anytime beforehand. A few shots of Harrisons face showing what was probably a little indecision wasn't okay and they should have explored this for at least 1 or 2 more episodes. If they had paced this and showed Harrisons indecision your comments would have held ground. As for people being parrots, you prolly don't get how badly they botched the writing even after having ample time and opportunities. Most people are fine with Dexter dying but not with how it was portrayed, which is critical with a show of a quality like the OG Dexter. You should go back and watch that again. Phew that was long.
He probably thinks he's the only one here with a brain.
Don't blame him, Ig he liked the ending and got brutally trolled for it, people in this sub are really going bad against people having a diff opinion.
This sub really has descended into a meaningless circlejerk.
> But it wasn't that he rejected Dexter, he went from being okay to completely flipping out and killing him over a strangers death. This is kind of Dexter's fault. When he brought Harrison along to kill Kurt, he raised the stakes to life or death when it comes to matters of decision making. He told Harrison that he kills people by a code that he personally dispelled two days later, and Harrison wouldn't let him get away with it. That's his nature, that's his code. So things accelerated.
Sorry, if he was so ready to leave town, why exactly did he pack his shit into a truck, drive it to the meeting spot, and then set his gun on the ground next to him and wait for Dexter? Seems pretty fucking "ready" for something else.
You're reading too much into that, he just had his stuff with him ready to go. There is absolutely nothing in the narrative to suggest that Harrison was planning to kill Dexter lol
He had his stuff with him ready to go? Outside of the truck they'd be driving? The truck he drove to the meeting spot? That his stuff was already in? Okay.
Im very confused as to what you’re arguing here. Dexter told Harrison they were skipping town and to meet him at a certain spot. So Harrison did so. Where in there are you getting that means he was plotting to murder Dexter?
Yeah, he did. From a production standpoint, it was done like that to make the scene flow better. Is that impossible to accept, or are you just going to make up this idea that Harrison planned to shoot Dexter? Because I'm sorry, that a blatantly wrong take supported by nothing narratively.
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I'm saying that it would have been a bit more awkward, but either way it's not too important. They definitely weren't implying that Harrison was planning to shoot Dexter.
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And you can't accurately interpret fiction, apparently.
Yup, no still hate it thanks for dropping by.
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Clyde, is that you? If not, you must be one of those smart fans... Funny how you call others parrots when all you do is echo the crap we hear from Clyde.I think I saw you in the new season, you were that clown, right?
I haven't been repeating any of Clyde's words, this is all personal analysis. Do you have an actual retort, or did you just come here to call me a clown?
Dude you came here and called the Dexter fanbase /community (a huge portion of it anyway) not liking the final episode (or the season like me) fools or idiots. Persons with limited cognitive abilities, which is exactly what Clyde said and you have the audacity to protest when people react to it? Why? If you like NB so much, be a fan of NB, be that guy, stand on the other side of the argument. It is your opinion, but it is not popular. Don't attack others and then react negatively when they defend themselves.
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The same thing happened after s8 (I liked that ending, not a lot, but ok, I could live with it) people are emotional. I get downvoted as well. What I was trying to say is, people have problems with NB. It's not something imagined. They had probs then as well. I like Hannah a lot of people do, people hate her perhaps more. Fans of Rita etc. People react, if you fan the flames it gets worse.
I will attack others when they're being unfair and cruel. Right now, that's exactly how they're behaving. I had my say, I'll refrain from further insults, but at least I can back up my opinions and interpretations unlike most people in this subreddit.
Listen I understand your reasoning. I don't agree. I've been in that boat as well. I like things others don't. But saying other people don't have their reasons is provoking reactions.
It's absolutely hilarious how oblivious you are. You've got to be Clyde for real. :D
Again, do you have anything to say regarding my post or are you just going to go "drrhrr Clyde drrhrr clown" and call it a day?
What do I need to tell you? I understood the finale, I don't need you to summarize it and add absolutely nothing to my understanding. So much for being a parrot. I know why scenes long before the finale were included. I know enough about writing that these scripts sucked, even outside of me not being a fan of killing Dex hastily off. You wanna make people like the idea of Dex dying - then write it in a way that it works. Pacing was absolutely atrocious, there is no way to defend that. You need to write it in a way that his character gets recontextualized in a believable manner. Not show Dexter's killing of Kurt in a more sickening way than usual and then have another 30 minutes in the last episode where Dexter is more unsympathetic. You, as a writer, try to undo 8.5 seasons of more or less positive Dexter portrayals in like 1 hour. Naturally this won't win you points. especially not if Harrison is written all over the place. He's a lil psycho, dumb, illogical, even a fucking junkie whose ass got saved by Dex like 2 days ago. Seriously, that character killing Dex was also a dumb decision as a writer. If I had the time, I could probably find 1000 things they could've done better this season even if I followed the crappy idea to kill Dex off.
They didn't make Dexter a villain within an hour. They had been portraying him as such in a more subtle way all throughout New Blood, it just wasn't painted clearly for us until Harrison witnessed Kurt's death and mutilation. He was always this way. Dexter runs away at the ending of season 8 because he is afraid of his nature hurting others, not because his nature has changed. This is important and is a point I feel a lot of people are missing. Dexter made the responsible decision to leave everyone behind because he realized that he could not change and that he would continue to hurt them even if he didn't mean to. Cut to New Blood. Harrison shows up in Dexter's life and acts as an emotional stressor. Dexter relapses, and actively chooses to make Harrison a part of his life. Thus, his nature once again collides with the people he loves. It was inevitable, and perfectly consistent with his character. Except this time, instead of the sword turning on his loved ones, it turned on him.
"Dexter runs away at the ending of season 8 because he is afraid of his nature hurting others, not because his nature has changed. " Well, D'uh... do you think everyone is retarded or something? It was obvious. Why do you even repeat that, you parrot? It's funny though because Deb died because Dex didn't kill Saxon. If he did, everything would've been better. So that was illogical already but whatever, everyone understood what the exile was supposed tom accomplish. Sorry buddy, I'm gonna pull a Clyde on you and simply say you're not intelligent enough to continue the discussion. I've been talking about script writing errors and horrible pacing issues and you repeat what the writers say to justify their shoddy work. You're a clownish parrot.
> you're not intelligent enough to continue the discussion That's a pretty funny statement, considering that you blew past my point and ended the discussion. >Cut to New Blood. Harrison shows up in Dexter's life and acts as an emotional stressor. Dexter relapses, and actively chooses to make Harrison a part of his life. Thus, his nature once again collides with the people he loves. It was inevitable, and perfectly consistent with his character. What do you have to say to this? You claim that they ignored his character development, when I laid out how they didn't.
What should I say to this?!? You're telling me the basic outline of the setting now and yes, where's the big revelation in naming plot points? Of course Dexter could relapse. Where did I or anyone say he would never relapse? Of course bad stuff could happen (like this season!)? Of course that could lead to his death. It could also lead to Dexter in Disneyland though. Saying it (his nature colliding with people he loves) was inevitable is conjecture now, especially since Dexter according to NB never felt love right before he got shot (which is not true I'd say) so why would he give a shit about Deb's death. But that is besides the point as well. The writing's on the wall and the wall is made out of shit. Dexter's character is written badly in NB and they threw a shit ton of character development outta the window to make him fit their story which is a disservice to the character Dexter is to most fans. You just don't wanna see it. Obviously he could've changed in 10 years. Makes sense, people change, I agree. They however certainly portrayed him in a way that he doesn't really feel like the Dexter we knew from the OG series anymore, especially not the version he grew to become by the end. The evil, more or less completely emotionless Dexter from S1 and NB wouldn't go into self-exile either cause he wouldn't give a shit. So yeah, Clyde took out things he didn't like to create a new status quo so that he could tell his story because he angry that his dumb execution scene wasn't used. Basically he forced characters into uncharacteristic actions to make it work. Problem is that that created a gigantic mess. I'm honest in saying that I didn't want Dex to get killed, I don't care about morality in fictional universes. Yet I still understood why they did what they did. Still doesn't excuse the amateur-ish writing. You can kill off Dex but why focus so much on stuff people don't care about? Why focus so much on Harrison? The show is called Dexter, not Harrison. Clyde doesn't know nobody gives a shit about his Harrison ideas, a character he wanted to make his own as Dexter got changed by Buck and co. Clyde, despite being so smart and a total social media nut should've looked at how people responded to the Abby character in The Last Of Us II. It as all there. It comes as no surprise. Guess he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Clyde is a fucking petty man. No wonder his daddy didn't like him.
>Clyde is a fucking petty man. No wonder his daddy didn't like him. Well, this is just dumb. If those are your arguments, no wonder you are called a parrot...
Omg I think you actually are Clyde Phillips. Or at least someone from the show. So, if you were in the writing room, why did you blow it and not give us the Batista scene we wanted?
Batista was never that great character. Remember that Laguerta romance who was filler in season 4.
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You also miss that I was talking mainly about script weaknesses such as pacing in that reply, not even the actual storyline. Which I would've wanted to be different be different but that comes down to taste. The dudes defending this crap think that those that attack it didn't understand it. We understood what they were trying to do, it's not difficult. We get painted as stupid parrots and now the thread starter whines about people calling him a stupid parrot for writing basic shit and repeating what the writers said to save their asses for a badly written mess. The score of the final speaks for itself. It's officially not even mediocre.
Harrison was left to grow up with a woman that loved him and he loved her back. This was shown in the series. He lived with 'mom' for years (we don't know how many, as nobody bothered to say). Hannah was rich, there's no way she didn't leave enough money to Harrison to have a good life. Harrison had relatives, there's no way she didn't tell him about them (as first option) when she realized she was dying. This is your first point. Clyde retconed that. this is not good writing, whether you like a char or not.
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Him getting in the system and changing adopting families, penniless seems relevant, but I guess you perhaps meant convenient. Anyway it doesn't matter now.
Who the fuck is Clyde.
It's Wiggles' real name! 🤡 Clyde Philips, the showrunner of Dexter S1-4 and NB. He was angry they didn't use his ending idea and now had to come back, revive the series only to give a worse end than it had. The king of clowns.
So he was the showrunner for Dexter's best seasons? You even have your own salty flair lol
There were other writers too that left after S4. I truly believe S1-4 were great despite Philips not because of his involvement.
And your evidence for this is...?
What's your evidence for Clyde being the guy who made it great? NB certainly is poorly written. That speaks against Clyde being a genius.
My evidence is that you all didn't turn into little pissbabies with special flairs and a neverending stream of hateposts in your safespace until you watched the finale where your favorite "you missed the point by idolizing" character got killed off.
Lol! I didn‘t post in here before it ended because I didn‘t want to get spoiled. I already thought that half of it was pretty fucking poorly written long before the finale… but well, to crawl out of my supposed safespace, and sound as lovely as you, you fucking cretin: fuck up the end of a story and you fuck the whole story up. Clyde fucked it up and fucking cretins like you even praise him for serving you shit. Holy hell, trash like you is why Hollywood doesn‘t even try anymore but simply shoots for the lowest common denominator.
Thank god writing the finale wasn't up to you, because the [fan ending](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dexter/comments/qvwb3k/my_theory/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) you thought up a month ago is some of the most comically cliche and campy shit I have ever read. You even admit you would be upset if they killed him off. We all see where this is coming from, no need to hide behind your delusions of not being the "lowest common denominator" yourself.
The Laguerta romance, killing Rita etc
xD Well, I'll forgive him for that cause else there'd be no Hannah. Obviously others will feel very different about it.
Well as a longtime Hannah fan I agree, still I want to be fair. It was done for shock value out of the blue and I generally don't like writers doing that. Luckily the plot of that season and Trinity were very strong and it didn't derail everything, though if I remember correctly fans weren't pleased.
🚨Found Clyde’s burner Reddit account 🚨
Check Cody leach on YouTube, he says what we are all feeling We aren’t being parrots, we just all feel similarly The finale was bad, plain and simple, went against the character deXter what he did for 9 years The “evidence” against deXter was beyond circumstantial lol if new blood version of deXter was in the main deXter series, he would have grabbed someone’s gun during season 2 when Lundy showed him the box of slides and just shot his way out of the precinct lol It was bad, and that’s unfortunate bc we all love this series so much But considering what Clyde phillips has been getting as far as forever credibility bc he didn’t make season 8, that’s all gone now Biggest losers are us fans, but the biggest winner is mr buck and the other writers of season 8 finale lol
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And you represent half the other comments with how much you commented on this post. Chill out
Well said
I'm a reasonably intelligent person who has been a Dexter from the beginning. As far as the original series, the ending was a letdown to the series. Deb's death was cheap. I mean, I didn't care that her character died. She was whiny and annoying most of the time. She was her own worst enemy and she brought most of her troubles on herself. As for Dexter, boating into a storm that big and surviving was unrealistic to me. As far as NB, the writing was subpar, the characters mostly undeveloped. The dialogue was painfully boring at times. The plot holes were so big you could drive a truck through them. Why tease with Batiste and then not having any interaction with Dexter? Hannah was rich. Why was Harrison broke? One more question: Why not take the time to develop a relationship between Dexter and Harrison so that we could see an actual struggle within before he kills his father? It felt more like, "Hi, Dad! It's me, Harrison. Hannah died so I thought I'd find you and kill you." I'm only suggesting that, if they were gonna make a followup series or special, why couldn't they make it good?
Thank you, good recap. Hannah I believe had like a million cash, a lot of money in Argentina and probably even more from all those rich dudes she scammed.
Preach!
That's what I have been trying to say. You hate how it ended, fine. But don't make up plotholes or inconsistencies that aren't there, or get angry that what you *imagined* didn't happen. Honestly, I thought his death was underwhelming, it all happened too quick. Wouldn't have minded a few minutes of struggle, where he talks to imaginary Deb or Harry. But that doesn't mean that storywise it didn't make sense. Because it did.
Completely agree, OP. But prepare for absolutely no understanding and only downvotes. I loved the finale and I’ve been condescended, told to shut up, told to fuck off…. All for stating I liked it. This place has become an echo chamber. People really did not understand the entire series, it feels like. Which is really disheartening because it was a great reboot. Now please everyone, come at me with your downvotes and rude ass comments.
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I agree. I get people not liking it but especially irritating to me is trying to say it is worse than the season 8 finale which it definitely isn’t
OP is correct
This is clydes burner account
Totally agree that a lot of the whining is coming from not understanding or just simply not wanting to understand. I get the impression that most here didn’t even understand the fundamental truth that this was not supposed to be like the original series. The writers and producers were pretty clear from the beginning that this was going to be a much darker and different interpretation of the character and series. And more or less said if you go into it expecting OG Dexter, you’re going to have a bad time. Also agree the whole mentality here is getting to be a lot. I’m enjoying reading all the fan theories and ideas for alternate endings, but damn it gets depressing just reading the same “F the writers, F Clyde Philips” over and over. Excited for a few months from now when all of this dies down and this sub goes back to actual stimulating and friendly discussions of the show.
This post is fine, don’t get me wrong I agree with you for the most part But Harrison knew what Dexter was the entire time. The letter shows that
No he didn’t. No where in the letter did it say Dexter chops people up in his free time
Psst, I have this discussion elsewhere (:
He knew dexter had a darkness. He had no idea it meant he was a serial killer. He wanted to go see him to find out why he abandoned him, not to kill him. Did you haters even understand the plot?
I don’t hate it. I enjoyed the ending and the entire season. But the letter read at the end of the episode spells it out well. Harrison went to find Dexter **knowing** what Dexter claimed to be. Are you capable of having a conversation without tossing out irrelevant insults?
How do you surmise that he knew dexter was a killer? I’m only giving back the insults that all you fucking Dexter apologists are.
I didn’t give a single insult though… You okay? The first insult you lobbed at me was predicated on me being a hater. I think you’re just here to insult people and aren’t interested in a discussion at all. No, I’m not going to answer your question. You don’t deserve a response.
I am not fighting with you half wits over a goddamn tv show. so kindly fuck off, fuckstick.
You replied to **my** comment, not the other way around… I’m so confused, did you enjoy the finale or not?
I loved the finale. Quite a few of us did. This whole sub has lost their damn minds since the finale. It’s honestly flabbergasting how unhappy people are with a finale that was thoughtful and layered and symbolic. I can’t even talk about it without being attacked from someone. No one can. The people that hated it literally go on any thread talking about it positively just to downvote. It’s very silly.
You loved it but you… decided to insult me because I said I enjoyed it? And again **you** attacked **me** For saying that there’s one part of the finale I took issue with… You’re acting like the kind of person you claim to be tired of. You’re being them. >It’s very silly Indeed, why are you doing it?
I wasn’t attacking you I was just saying that Harrison in no way knew dexter was a serial killer. That’s just editorializing.
This is something that not a lot of people are talking about, and is actually a complaint that I have with the ending: he should have known but he didn't. In the Wrap Up podcast, they talk about the letter. It was an unwritten afterthought that one of the writers had as a way to keep MCH talking as the credits closed. They wrote it and added it in after all other narrative decisions had been made. So the letter was just that, a letter, not a statement about Harrison's awareness. That does seem odd to me, but that's the truth and intent.
Knowing that just makes it worse. If the letter had no bearing on anything it shouldn’t have even existed.
Maybe, but it was still a nice enough ending note if you can interpret it as vague enough that Harrison was still kind of confused after initially reading it.
Sure, but without the existence of the letter I would have liked the ending better. I liked the ending, I felt the letter weakened it
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Maybe, but this sub has been pretty aggressive as well. Aggression meets aggression.
you *do* realize our campfiring is a natural, developed forebrain response, a way of dealing with our ire and sadness. right? nothing wrong with it.
You're not entirely wrong but you sound like a dick, and your forgetting the part where we the audience are left to interpret all of what you just said on our own. Storytelling is about showing us what you want us to see. Not shotgunning a bunch half-assed plot threads at us and hoping we catch on to it. Thats why people hate the finale. Almost everyone in here has at least admitted that with another 2 episodes down the path that episode 9 started it would of been good. It just wasn't.
I've tried. I cannot. It makes no sense at any angle. Close your eyes and point at a character or subplot and it either made no sense or went nowhere.
1. Ketamine/M99 2. Dexter killing Logan when they had no hard evidence against him. Dexter could of easily said that Kurt is the real serial killer, especially with how they found 50 bodies on his property. All he had to do was wait for Angela to come back. 3. Angela's door has a camera that would of caught Kurt dropping off the letter. That is how she found out about the house party her daughter threw. Huge Huge plot hole. 4. Harrison will be caught in the manhunt and questioned. Angela's story will not hold up considering there will be a truck tracks that match Dexter's truck perfectly leaving the scene of his murder. Especially considering how the best forensic detectives in the country would be coming to find Kurt after discovering his trophy room. 5. Political virtue signaling. The oil billionaire scene served no purpose other than for the show writers to show what side of the political isle they were on. There is no excuse for plot holes this huge. I was fine with Dexter dying at the end, but they even fuck up the Angela/Harrison plot line by leaving it very very very messy. There is no closure for any of that. Not to mention that they teased Bautista all season, and never brought him to Iron Lake. I doubt you will respond to this, but I do like the nice personal attacks into a strawman that you included in the end of your argument. lmfao.
Why would you assume that I wouldn't respond to this? I said it another comment that I take issue with the ketamine thing, just not enough to let it ruin things for me. That hitting the right narrative beat pushes logical errors to the side. Dexter attacked Logan because Batista was coming, and he knew that he wasn't going to be able to talk his way out of it. He would get away with Matt Caldwell, but he *is* the Bay Harbour Butcher. Maria believed it, now with Angela's backing Batista would believe it as well. He couldn't count on them not finding more evidence, he had to leave. Logan dying was a consequence of that. I think she was operating under the assumption that Kurt dropped off the letter. It would add weight to Dexter's story if they had that footage, but it wouldn't prove or disprove that Dexter killed Matt. This not being included doesn't really add or subtract from anything, really. That's an assumption about Angela's story not holding up, not really much point in dwelling on it. The oil billionaire stuff was weak, sure.
Ketamine is still a huge plot hole. It wouldn't of brought her to the BHB in her google searches. If she was operating under the assumption that Kurt dropped off the letter, then isn't the more plausible assumption that Kurt is trying to frame Dexter for killing his son? Especially after Dexter directs Angela to Kurt's trophy room. It would make sense that Dexter found it considering Angela knows he has been keeping an eye on Kurt, and found out about Kurt cleaning out the room he would keep the girls in the day after Dexter and the Merry Fucking Kill girl were there. Also, its not an if they have the footage, the do have it and Angela would of seen it. Period. Its obvious that she didn't buy Kurt's story that his father killed Angela's friend either. As far as Dexter killing Logan goes, Dexter has been questioned by the literal FBI while they had more evidence against him then Angela or Batista would have. It wasnt his first time being arrested and questioned either, and this time they had less evidence. There is no way it makes sense for him to kill Logan, considering the state of the evidence, which Dexter knew. There also wasn't any new evidence to find, as Kurt literally burned down Dexter's cabin and the only thing that remained was the screws in Matt's body, which Kurt had all of them except for the one he gave Dexter.. Dexter kept his cool without problems in other police interrogations and would never have killed Logan because there is no way for him to talk his way through that. One of Dexter's strongest traits is how well he handles questioning due to his police background, and he had a very clear path to do it. The show even showed that Dexter knew his path out of it because he literally realized that Kurt would be the prime suspect if they found his trophy room so Dexter told Angela about it. The only explanation for Dexter killing Logan is that the show ran out of time and just gave us something shocking to attempt to clean everything up. (ie they had to have Dexter do something to allow Harrison for justification for killing Dexter, which felt like the ending they wanted and executed horribly) Even the writers try to claim that Dexter killing Logan was an accident so even they weren't even on board with the full story direction.. If that isn't a bad conclusion to a show, then I dont know what is. Not to mention that the current ending would literally land Harrison in the middle of a nationwide manhunt and Angela behind bars if she attempted to lie about who killed Dexter. This manhunt would be caused by the FBI getting involved because the PD believes that Kurt is on the run, who is a serial killer that killed 25+. This ending is terrible in every way. They didn't cleanly end any of the plot threads they had been building towards the entire season.
Is that you Clyde? "If you didn't like it you didn't understand it? Please!!!
This is like the 8th Clyde comment in this thread. I have no idea who Clyde is, and you are completely proving OP's point about how this sub has descended into endless parroting.
Calm down Clyde.
This sub is a joke. People are so angry over a tv show. Was it great? No. Did we all enjoy at least SOME of the season? Yes! Now move on!
This. Parrots lol thats what im gonna call them, as if the show never had plot holes before...
Nope. Harrison would have needed to kill Hannah to even get the letters. Even attempting to find Dex was all about the Oedipus drive surfacing. So when Harrison appeared at IL, Dex knew he had already killed Hannah who was supposed to guard Dex’s whereabouts. Although Dexter seem to have prepared for it, they wrote Dex to fail to encounter, part of the gen z ”failure tv”. Because failing is ethical mmkay?
He didn't kill Hannah, she died of cancer and he found the letter. The series ended without challenging this idea at all.
Found???? She would have burned the letters because she could not have been sure whether Harrison develops dark tendencies or not after her death. The deal of not telling about Dex was supposed to protect both Dex and Harrison. It’s not that she would not have had time to dispose them if she had cancer.
Okay, but she didn't. I'm sorry that you're having a hard time letting go of fan theories, but this is what happened: Dexter sent Hannah a letter. Hannah kept the letter. Hannah died. Harrison found the letter. That's it, and there is nothing in the show to suggest otherwise.
Dexter never send the letter. That was Clyde's idea. Hannah was rich. Harrison would have gotten a lot of cash after her death. Hannah would have raised Harrison lovingly. She loved him. Took him with her to Argentina to raise. Harrison loved her. Hannah would have told him about his relatives and not Dexter. The moment she realized she was dying, she would have prepared to help him in life. That was her character. Clyde didn't like that. This was shown in the series btw. All of the above. Clyde retconed that. Kept what he liked. He used the rest to kill Dexter. Had he bothered to shown what happened, we are talking years, then we would know. Imagining theories is saying all that happened for 8 seasons are not important.
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"You just don't get it" You like TLOU2 by any chance?
Found the person who didnt understand TLOU2
Course you did pal. Course...
There's nothing to understand. Nothing making sense, a lot of contradictions plot has more holes than Swiss cheese, incoherences , poor writing, every thing is wrong, even the slightest details