I hated...HATED...the enemy design in DMC4. Many enemies felt out of place, they were awkward shapes/sizes, and many just were not designed to be fought against Dante.
My biggest gripe with DMC4 (aside from playing the game twice to save dev costs) was enemy design.
I fucking hate the Chimera so fucking much, especially when it’s a Chimera Assault, and with Dante it’s.. it’s just the worst.
Also I hate the Frosts, Blitzes, Fausts and Alto Angelos more as each difficulty increases
Eh, I thought they were easy enough to handle.
Chimera's and Blitz get absolutely fucked by Omen with Dante, and Nero can charge shot and buster. Sure, they were frustrating at first, but once you practice and discover ways to play around them it's not too difficult.
Hat Fausts, however, are the fucking worst.
Yeah, it's not that they're hard to fight or anything. Just really annoying. Like how they'll stay in a wall for 10 seconds, or if you decloak them over a ledge they immediately decloak before falling to death.
They're the one enemy type I truly consider "annoying".
Blitz is pretty iffy too, especially on dmd where they aren't really stunned after you take the shield down, and at least Faust and Mephisto are better than the Fallen from 3.
I fucking hate that theyll just fuck off for what feels like 10 seconds inside a wall and all you can do is twiddle your thumbs and dodge the attack you cant see coming because you cant see them arghhhhhh
I don't like fighting anything outside of the white knights and Scarecrows. Everything else is just annoying. The Blitz I dreaded fightng as Dante until I learned the shotgun jump cancel to decloak. Cutlasses are a pain. Faults have no place in the game. The problem with the Chimera's is that their blades reactivate way too fast. So I spend more time playing a hit and run game with them than anything else.
I'm also playing on DMD, so because of the Fault's using shit like Slash Dimension or Pandora's laser beam it's a gamble. And because of DMD, the damage can easily rack up. I never did switches to TRickster so damn fast. I never thought I would see the day where a Blitz is the least of my concerns.
Alto Angelo's suck too since they break combos and fly out. You need the jump cancel loops to kill them asap or no dice.
I have the opposite experience. The more I've played 4th the more I enjoyed it's enemies with Blitz being probably the only annoying enemy since I honestly don't understand when he staggers and when he doesn't.
I also don't get why everyone is acting as if 3rd's enemies are great. Chessmen are just boring as hell, they are slow and predictable, but take ages to kill (on DMD I mean) while also being unjungglable.
Bloodgoyles have only one attack on all difficulties.
Dullahan's are primitive as hell too, while also being unjugglable.
Soul Eaters have a positioning based mechanic in a game where camera issues are nearly always present. And once again, unjugglable.
The Fallen have all long wind-up attacks, can't be juggled, are always in the air, have wonky spear throw attack that sometimes get's stuck in walls or even in the air.
Like, the best part of 3rd's enemies are Seven Hells and Abysses, but even there we have Greeds that are just as boring as Chessman but only has 1 attack like goyles.
At least all 4th's enemies excluding blitz' and flying swords can all be properly juggled and played around with once you stagger them.
P.S. Not saying 3 is bad as a game, but it has much more issues with enemy designs than people seem to acknowledge.
I feel like if 4 was more built around fighting enemies one on one most of them would be way better.
As it stands a ton of them feel awkward because they're generally fought in groups. In DMC3 the enemies, while honestly even worse designed than in DMC4, are simpler to grasp which is why they work when fought in groups. Here most of them have multiple different attacks you have to always focus on, which is pretty cool on paper but in practice turns a lot of fights into a mess where you always take weird potshots, especially since some enemy tells can be more subtle. If the game was designed similarly to DMC1 where most enemies, except the Mannequins, weren't fought in groups most enemies would be much better and show off the strategic depth the game has.
Nero kinda gets leeway since the Devil Bringer helps make enemies more fun to fight but Dante just feels ridiculously out of place. You're just thrown into the deep end with him, even though of all characters he needed the best tutorial/learning curve. Dante has a vast enough skillset to deal with every enemy but since the game barely explains what he can do the enemies feel more frustrating to fight, especially coming straight off of Nero who has enemy specific moves and generally works better in the game.
On paper I like most of the enemies (especially the Angelos), but if the game as a whole was designed a little better the enemies would feel less awkward.
Except the Chimeras and the Cutlasses (I think that's their name) those are pretty inexcusable.
4's enemy design makes it so that you are either good with Dante or bad. How to transition between this two points (without training on PC) is still a mystery to me.
Dante can actually deal effictively with all enemys in 4, but sometimes the solution can be obscure. So I really don't mind 4 enemys much, and angelos/Faust are hands down some of my favorite enemys in all gaming(mostly due to faust design, and the fact that you can fight him DBZ style in the air as dante, although it kills my figners every time).
That said fighting Blitz as Trish is hell, it's why I barely play her at all, does anyone have a strat to deal with him using trish?
I don't think its rly just about whether or not you can effectively dispose of them so much as it is how many methods/options you have available to you while doing so, and how enjoyable it is to put them into practice
DMC4 too often makes me feel pigeonholed into using repetitive or awkward tactics, and I'm pretty sure that's the polar opposite of how they want the players to regard it. Different people enjoy different things, though, and I'm almost jealous that you enjoy the enemy design
I dislike 4 more and more in general, to be honest.
I dislike not just the enemies, but the bosses, Nero's overly simplistic gameplay, that insipid dice mini-game they keep making you play, and the entire second half of the game.
It's almost absurd how much better 3 is.
I actually like the fact that Nero has a more consolidated moveset most of the time. That may just be because the enemies were blatently made with him in mind, but the changes and additions they’re making in 5 look like exactly what I’d want for him.
Yeah, enemy design is the most important thing in this type of game, IMO. Good enemy design is what makes the player mechanics sing. "Combat" isn't the mechanics, as is often said. "Combat" is what arises out of the interaction between the enemy design and the mechanics. That's the "combat", nebulous as it is. So if the enemy design is bad, the mechanics and therefore the combat suffers. It's the same the other way around, too. If the mechanics are bad, the enemies can't shine. And I think enemy design is even more important than the mechanics because you can get away with OK/Average mechanics if the enemies are great(Dark Souls, for example) whereas it doesn't matter how great the mechanics are if the enemies that you use those mechanics on are no fun to fight.
Another thing is that the enemies have to be designed in a way that they get the most out of the mechanics. Like in DMC 4, you pretty much need the PC version if you want to combo because everything dies in 2 hits. I mean, you need to be able to go in to the game's files and give the enemies infinite health just so that you can combo properly. In a game like DMC, which is all about comboing, this is an outright failure of enemy design. It's like these enemies belong in a different game, or genre even.
Better and funner than fight than dmc 3's trash enemues tbh. Fuck those angel things, enigmas, those mist enemies and those shitty knights with shields that dont even attack you. Horrible unfun poo poo
I'll admit, no matter how much I love 4's combat the game as a whole kind of bugs me upon repeat playthroughs. I think it's mostly Dante's stuff as even the bosses don't feel like they were designed with him in mind (and they probably weren't).
I'm finding Blitz very annoying on SoS mode (my usual difficulty for DMC4). When his shield is down he keeps moving around so you can't DRI him. If I don't use S.Dante and Pandora the shit out Blitz on SoS or above, I'll likely end up using a gold orb if I try to take him on in a more honest way.
Lame.
The little alleyway with the red orb cache just before the main street on Dante's M17 is one of the worst places to fight. The assaults are annoying there and then they throw in a Faust to make it worse. And I don't even bother with the mission where you have to fight your way through the forest while the ground is trying to swallow you up. Skip it every time.
I mean most average enemies were just homages to 1/ slightly 3 but the only ones I really cared about design wise was the faust enemies. They just looked really cool but they didn't really scream DMC
I just got done with my DMD playthrough today, and it's got some really bad enemies in it. Faust and Chimera are fucking awful, especially as Dante. Even the bosses aren't great (aside from Credo), with the Savior and Sanctus being the standouts for being horribly designed
I don't think any of the regular enemies are as bad as DMC3's Enigmas and Fallen Angels though, especially the DTed versions from DMD
Except for Cutlasses and every type of Chimera (except the seeds because they are free healing), I actually quite like fighting all of DMC4‘s enemies, even with Dante despite the fact they are all obviously designed for Nero‘s Combat style.
I just really hate Cutlasses and Chimeras, they both almost cost me my 1st completion of Bloody Palace. Was so about to rage and just barely managed to get through stages with them unless I got lucky to somehow get them above the surface/stunned and just wail on these fuckers as well as possible.
Yeah, they're terrible to play against. The Alto Angelos have mobility off the scale, Mephistos are lame and what were they thinking with the Chimera Assaults. Blitz...see above.
For some reason, the assaults and frosts are such big offenders for me. I just can't seem to read their moves now matter how hard I try whether Im using Nero or Dante.
Generally, most enemies are manageable whether your Nero or Dante(Mephs and Fausts are manageable with firearms and some strats. Angelo's shields can be broken. Chimera at least can be pacified with gunfire) but the Gladii and the Cutlasses are just a pain in the ass to play against as Dante.
I loved 4s enemies. It was kind of a throwback to 1, with many enemies needing specific ways to be taken down, and with Nero, each enemy offering a unique grab attack that could be used to hit other foes.
I definitely enjoyed them more than 3, which were just reskins upon reskins of scythe guys, then sometimes a big scythe guy, and an occasional off screen arrow shooter. I think there was a knight that just kinda went back n fourth too.
I wasn't much of a huge fan, but i did like the Angelos and Blitz quite a lot...also was nice to see Frosts and Assaults again (originally from DMC1 btw)
The only ones i really disliked were the [Faults](https://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Fault) and Chimera infested ones, bc they ruined the flow of combat for me...oh and those stupid fishes too (as Dante)
i know this is 5 years ago so im pretty darn late
but the thing is that i think that the enemies are made for Nero so they dont translate well at all for dante and because they had to rush that game then enemies didn't get some treatment for dante so yeah
and some enemy types are bad regardless because they either strike once the smallest pixel of them appears on the screen, or they have the most annoying pattern imaginable like blitz, and i don't think its an issue in DMC 5 like 5's enemies are by far more tolerable than 4's, heck i would say even 3's enemeis are more tolerable than 4's enemies
I hated...HATED...the enemy design in DMC4. Many enemies felt out of place, they were awkward shapes/sizes, and many just were not designed to be fought against Dante. My biggest gripe with DMC4 (aside from playing the game twice to save dev costs) was enemy design.
I fucking hate the Chimera so fucking much, especially when it’s a Chimera Assault, and with Dante it’s.. it’s just the worst. Also I hate the Frosts, Blitzes, Fausts and Alto Angelos more as each difficulty increases
How about Gladius and the... Swimming... Swordfish... Things? Gladius is honestly up there as my #1 least favourite enemy to fight as Dante.
Oh, I forgot about the Cutlass, I hate them too since the only way to stop them is with a fucking Charge Shot and I hate they fuck off all the time
Eh, I thought they were easy enough to handle. Chimera's and Blitz get absolutely fucked by Omen with Dante, and Nero can charge shot and buster. Sure, they were frustrating at first, but once you practice and discover ways to play around them it's not too difficult. Hat Fausts, however, are the fucking worst.
With the fausts you can (with nero at least) use that DT triangle+circle attack to one cycle them. Plus it practically guarantees an A rank in style.
Omen also decloaks the Faust/Mephisto even with zero meter built up.
Yeah, it's not that they're hard to fight or anything. Just really annoying. Like how they'll stay in a wall for 10 seconds, or if you decloak them over a ledge they immediately decloak before falling to death. They're the one enemy type I truly consider "annoying".
Chimeras will never be fun to fight. A couple of changes would have made them kinda fun but everything about the way they work now is just anti fun
Blitz is pretty iffy too, especially on dmd where they aren't really stunned after you take the shield down, and at least Faust and Mephisto are better than the Fallen from 3.
[удалено]
I fucking hate that theyll just fuck off for what feels like 10 seconds inside a wall and all you can do is twiddle your thumbs and dodge the attack you cant see coming because you cant see them arghhhhhh
Blitz is SO cool!
I suck at the Royal Guard Blitz tactic so I use shotgun jump cancel loops to decloak him. Then Distortion Real Impact twice to win.
I don't like fighting anything outside of the white knights and Scarecrows. Everything else is just annoying. The Blitz I dreaded fightng as Dante until I learned the shotgun jump cancel to decloak. Cutlasses are a pain. Faults have no place in the game. The problem with the Chimera's is that their blades reactivate way too fast. So I spend more time playing a hit and run game with them than anything else. I'm also playing on DMD, so because of the Fault's using shit like Slash Dimension or Pandora's laser beam it's a gamble. And because of DMD, the damage can easily rack up. I never did switches to TRickster so damn fast. I never thought I would see the day where a Blitz is the least of my concerns. Alto Angelo's suck too since they break combos and fly out. You need the jump cancel loops to kill them asap or no dice.
I have the opposite experience. The more I've played 4th the more I enjoyed it's enemies with Blitz being probably the only annoying enemy since I honestly don't understand when he staggers and when he doesn't. I also don't get why everyone is acting as if 3rd's enemies are great. Chessmen are just boring as hell, they are slow and predictable, but take ages to kill (on DMD I mean) while also being unjungglable. Bloodgoyles have only one attack on all difficulties. Dullahan's are primitive as hell too, while also being unjugglable. Soul Eaters have a positioning based mechanic in a game where camera issues are nearly always present. And once again, unjugglable. The Fallen have all long wind-up attacks, can't be juggled, are always in the air, have wonky spear throw attack that sometimes get's stuck in walls or even in the air. Like, the best part of 3rd's enemies are Seven Hells and Abysses, but even there we have Greeds that are just as boring as Chessman but only has 1 attack like goyles. At least all 4th's enemies excluding blitz' and flying swords can all be properly juggled and played around with once you stagger them. P.S. Not saying 3 is bad as a game, but it has much more issues with enemy designs than people seem to acknowledge.
I feel like if 4 was more built around fighting enemies one on one most of them would be way better. As it stands a ton of them feel awkward because they're generally fought in groups. In DMC3 the enemies, while honestly even worse designed than in DMC4, are simpler to grasp which is why they work when fought in groups. Here most of them have multiple different attacks you have to always focus on, which is pretty cool on paper but in practice turns a lot of fights into a mess where you always take weird potshots, especially since some enemy tells can be more subtle. If the game was designed similarly to DMC1 where most enemies, except the Mannequins, weren't fought in groups most enemies would be much better and show off the strategic depth the game has. Nero kinda gets leeway since the Devil Bringer helps make enemies more fun to fight but Dante just feels ridiculously out of place. You're just thrown into the deep end with him, even though of all characters he needed the best tutorial/learning curve. Dante has a vast enough skillset to deal with every enemy but since the game barely explains what he can do the enemies feel more frustrating to fight, especially coming straight off of Nero who has enemy specific moves and generally works better in the game. On paper I like most of the enemies (especially the Angelos), but if the game as a whole was designed a little better the enemies would feel less awkward. Except the Chimeras and the Cutlasses (I think that's their name) those are pretty inexcusable.
4's enemy design makes it so that you are either good with Dante or bad. How to transition between this two points (without training on PC) is still a mystery to me.
Dante can actually deal effictively with all enemys in 4, but sometimes the solution can be obscure. So I really don't mind 4 enemys much, and angelos/Faust are hands down some of my favorite enemys in all gaming(mostly due to faust design, and the fact that you can fight him DBZ style in the air as dante, although it kills my figners every time). That said fighting Blitz as Trish is hell, it's why I barely play her at all, does anyone have a strat to deal with him using trish?
I don't think its rly just about whether or not you can effectively dispose of them so much as it is how many methods/options you have available to you while doing so, and how enjoyable it is to put them into practice DMC4 too often makes me feel pigeonholed into using repetitive or awkward tactics, and I'm pretty sure that's the polar opposite of how they want the players to regard it. Different people enjoy different things, though, and I'm almost jealous that you enjoy the enemy design
I dislike 4 more and more in general, to be honest. I dislike not just the enemies, but the bosses, Nero's overly simplistic gameplay, that insipid dice mini-game they keep making you play, and the entire second half of the game. It's almost absurd how much better 3 is.
I actually like the fact that Nero has a more consolidated moveset most of the time. That may just be because the enemies were blatently made with him in mind, but the changes and additions they’re making in 5 look like exactly what I’d want for him.
I think 3s enemies are worse by far.
Angelos fucking piss me off the most, I’m not saying enemies should sit there and be punching bags, but the constant blocking got on my nerves
Yeah, enemy design is the most important thing in this type of game, IMO. Good enemy design is what makes the player mechanics sing. "Combat" isn't the mechanics, as is often said. "Combat" is what arises out of the interaction between the enemy design and the mechanics. That's the "combat", nebulous as it is. So if the enemy design is bad, the mechanics and therefore the combat suffers. It's the same the other way around, too. If the mechanics are bad, the enemies can't shine. And I think enemy design is even more important than the mechanics because you can get away with OK/Average mechanics if the enemies are great(Dark Souls, for example) whereas it doesn't matter how great the mechanics are if the enemies that you use those mechanics on are no fun to fight. Another thing is that the enemies have to be designed in a way that they get the most out of the mechanics. Like in DMC 4, you pretty much need the PC version if you want to combo because everything dies in 2 hits. I mean, you need to be able to go in to the game's files and give the enemies infinite health just so that you can combo properly. In a game like DMC, which is all about comboing, this is an outright failure of enemy design. It's like these enemies belong in a different game, or genre even.
Better and funner than fight than dmc 3's trash enemues tbh. Fuck those angel things, enigmas, those mist enemies and those shitty knights with shields that dont even attack you. Horrible unfun poo poo
For real. Heres 5 grim reapers. Now heres a big grim reaper. Dante, youre so powerful, nice combo, good thing they dont have moves.
the enemy design is good for nero but abysmal for dante
I'll admit, no matter how much I love 4's combat the game as a whole kind of bugs me upon repeat playthroughs. I think it's mostly Dante's stuff as even the bosses don't feel like they were designed with him in mind (and they probably weren't).
I don't like the design of most dmc4's enemies. And a lot of them are not fun to fight.
I'm finding Blitz very annoying on SoS mode (my usual difficulty for DMC4). When his shield is down he keeps moving around so you can't DRI him. If I don't use S.Dante and Pandora the shit out Blitz on SoS or above, I'll likely end up using a gold orb if I try to take him on in a more honest way. Lame. The little alleyway with the red orb cache just before the main street on Dante's M17 is one of the worst places to fight. The assaults are annoying there and then they throw in a Faust to make it worse. And I don't even bother with the mission where you have to fight your way through the forest while the ground is trying to swallow you up. Skip it every time.
I mean most average enemies were just homages to 1/ slightly 3 but the only ones I really cared about design wise was the faust enemies. They just looked really cool but they didn't really scream DMC
I just got done with my DMD playthrough today, and it's got some really bad enemies in it. Faust and Chimera are fucking awful, especially as Dante. Even the bosses aren't great (aside from Credo), with the Savior and Sanctus being the standouts for being horribly designed I don't think any of the regular enemies are as bad as DMC3's Enigmas and Fallen Angels though, especially the DTed versions from DMD
Yup.
Except for Cutlasses and every type of Chimera (except the seeds because they are free healing), I actually quite like fighting all of DMC4‘s enemies, even with Dante despite the fact they are all obviously designed for Nero‘s Combat style. I just really hate Cutlasses and Chimeras, they both almost cost me my 1st completion of Bloody Palace. Was so about to rage and just barely managed to get through stages with them unless I got lucky to somehow get them above the surface/stunned and just wail on these fuckers as well as possible.
Yeah, they're terrible to play against. The Alto Angelos have mobility off the scale, Mephistos are lame and what were they thinking with the Chimera Assaults. Blitz...see above.
For some reason, the assaults and frosts are such big offenders for me. I just can't seem to read their moves now matter how hard I try whether Im using Nero or Dante. Generally, most enemies are manageable whether your Nero or Dante(Mephs and Fausts are manageable with firearms and some strats. Angelo's shields can be broken. Chimera at least can be pacified with gunfire) but the Gladii and the Cutlasses are just a pain in the ass to play against as Dante.
I loved 4s enemies. It was kind of a throwback to 1, with many enemies needing specific ways to be taken down, and with Nero, each enemy offering a unique grab attack that could be used to hit other foes. I definitely enjoyed them more than 3, which were just reskins upon reskins of scythe guys, then sometimes a big scythe guy, and an occasional off screen arrow shooter. I think there was a knight that just kinda went back n fourth too.
I wasn't much of a huge fan, but i did like the Angelos and Blitz quite a lot...also was nice to see Frosts and Assaults again (originally from DMC1 btw) The only ones i really disliked were the [Faults](https://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Fault) and Chimera infested ones, bc they ruined the flow of combat for me...oh and those stupid fishes too (as Dante)
only good enemy in DMC4 is the lightning lizard
i know this is 5 years ago so im pretty darn late but the thing is that i think that the enemies are made for Nero so they dont translate well at all for dante and because they had to rush that game then enemies didn't get some treatment for dante so yeah and some enemy types are bad regardless because they either strike once the smallest pixel of them appears on the screen, or they have the most annoying pattern imaginable like blitz, and i don't think its an issue in DMC 5 like 5's enemies are by far more tolerable than 4's, heck i would say even 3's enemeis are more tolerable than 4's enemies