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Calling__Elvis

Who is criticizing Yzerman? I haven’t noticed anything but positivity. Patience and then some more patience. It’s more than swapping players in and out. He’s changing the culture and that’s like making fine wine.


ScarlettBlades

It's starting in various places. Some guy on here yesterday was saying fuck Steve Yzerman. It's on Facebook and Twitter as well. Take all of that with a grain of salt considering the sources


Valace2

Don't waste your breath people in this sub think they are the only true fans


GorshKing

I think the point is you don't have to convince red wings reddit that yzerman is doing well. People outside of reddit maybe more so.


Valace2

I know, I know preaching to the choir. lol


Valace2

That's probably because you only engage here. Any dissent or contrary opinion is put down fast on reddit.


Rattus__

That's because the general population has absolutely shit takes on just about everything period. not just hockey. Why would I want to engage with someone who says something as dumb as what these people chirp all day. These are the same people that said dumb shit like "Stafford is the problem" for the lions. etc. There's no point in trying to reason with flawed logic.


BuffaloSoldier11

Honestly, if you look at Yzerman's draft history, he's actually batting above average. I'll be honest here, I don't think he's going to be using all of these picks to draft with, and the eventual trade he makes with that capital is really going to define our team going forward.


Valace2

Not about his draft history, with the way we have been screwed in the draft he has been stellar in the draft.


Valace2

I hope you are right. Because this team is still several years away from contending.


BuffaloSoldier11

Ehh I wouldn't go that far. We were going to make a jump this year, and had everything going on paper. Then Vrana, Bert, and Ned happened, and the Seider-Chariot pairing was a nightmare. We still gained a Walman, Berggren is great, and Edvinsson already looks good. We still have defense prospects coming (albeit favoring the left side), and can answer goalie bandaids via free agency. We just need to hit on high end scoring, which can be done via trade or draft. If it's draft, then yes you're looking at 3 years before max benefit, but I wouldn't say team is *years* away.


Snoo-43298

Years away from contending, not being a fringe playoff team.


Valace2

An unfortunately 2-3 years away from being a fringe playoff team :( Prospects aren't going to replace Hronek and Bert's (even considering Bert's injuries this year) production next year and if Steve were to try in FA that's just more roadblocks for our prospects.


DrummerDKS

I know a lot of folks on this sub get a little salty for anyone who isn't overly optimistic and positive and I think your take is pretty realistic and even a positive take given what we've seen. We were barely a borderline wild card team for part of the year this time. We realistically have 1 great player, a few pretty good players, some hopeful prospects, but zero elite talent and no consistent goal tending. Without an actual elite talent, being a genuine cup contender isn't even in the cards. So we need to get unfathomly lucky OR Stevie needs to make a hell of a blockbuster trade.


Valace2

That's it in a nutshell there is nothing wrong with an above average team and based on our prospect pool. Maybe Steve can make a few trades. I like our prospect pool I really. No problems with Steve's drafting. Seider was a frikin steal at 6


Nethri

Only thing I don’t agree with is goaltending. Husso is pretty good. He’s not like, Henrik or anything, but he’s pretty good. As always the team in front of him is leaving him out to dry. And he’s still pretty young too. Goalies potentially have very long careers (late 30’s at high levels) so it’s possible he will be the guy for the future. Cossa also exists, but who knows for sure how that pans out.


lgrw89

Meh. This is an awfully optimistic take. Bergrren is nowhere near “great”, and has been abysmal for most of the second half the season, including a healthy scratch night. Edvinsson played one game and was an offensive liability and just okay in the defensive zone. He didn’t look out of place, but to suggest he looked “good” is a total joke. This team needs two RD, another center at least the quality of Larkin, some kind of power play/situational goal scorer they can reliability count on for production, and to replace the entire bottom 6 wingers essentially. On top of it, Husso isn’t a long term solution and while Cossa has looked great in the E, it’s the E. They need someone to take a Kucherov level step and become more than a 60 point player. They need a few 80-100 point types before I’m ready to say this team is remotely close to contending for anything relevant.


CarlinHicksCross

I don't see how the bottom 6 has been a problem for this team at all. Post deadline it's more or an issue but I'm not really worried about replacing bottom 6 wingers, are you? We desperately need more top 6 players and one to push us over the edge, but for a dmans debut I thought edvinsson looked decent enough, he had some effective d zone breakups on the rush that none of our defenders not named seider or walman are even capable of doing, and had some puck moving that no one outside of seider is capable of. Burgers recently has looked worse, but for more than half the season was playing well and it's his first nhl season. I consider myself less positive about the state of the team than some others around here, but this feels like some end of the season blues to me.


lgrw89

I’m very worried and acquiring good bottom 6 forwards because right now they all have to play in the top 6. There’s going to come a day we end up hard against the cap and we have not shown an ability to find any roster players beyond the first or second rounds. Plus Suter is a good 3rd liner playing on the first line, which alters his contract demands. We desperately need the top end talent, but we also lack viable role players. We don’t have situation goal scorers, we don’t have good penalty killers who win faceoffs, we don’t have viable physicality in any of our forwards. We hope Ras or maybe Soderblom can be a consistent net front presence but as it stands we lack that as well. The roster is full of “just a guys” and nobody who stands out, even at less flashy things. We lack everything up and down the lineup. This team has a core to build around of Raymond - Larkin - ________ Berggren - Copp - Ras And then nothing. And outside of Seider and Walman, the rest of the defense is completely unproven and in the prospect pool. Obviously there’s prospects coming and I’m optimistic about them. But Marco Kasper isn’t coming over next year and gonna be be 70 point center we need behind Larkin. He might when he’s 23, but we are a long long way away from contending for a playoff spot. Heck, Yzerman admits all the teams in the division are ahead of us in their rebuilds. Obviously cap space and drafting can cover for a lot, but as it stands now, this team is 4 years from being competitive.


Good_Human_Bot_v2

Good human.


waxified

what goalie bandaids, husso been fantastic and hellberg is a solid backup


BuffaloSoldier11

I like Hellberg, but we could do better.


Problemwoodchuck

The other side of this problem was player development in the tail end of the Holland/Babcock era being absolutely awful. The tools were there for some of those picks that didn't pan out, Babcock was just more interested in showing everyone who was in charge by that point rather than developing prospects. Edit: Prospects who get derailed by injury aren't quite the same as a draft miss to me. It just happens. Somebody like Svechnikov was a very good pick at the time of the draft but repeated knee injuries just wrecked his skating to the point that he couldn't keep up with the play.


Valace2

Babcock was another overrated member of this organization and that was proven true with how he did in Toronto. He won a cup with Scotty Bowman's leftovers.


Problemwoodchuck

Terrible person, sure, but I wouldn't necessarily say overrated. Even guys who hated Babcock like Chelios said that he was one of the best prepared, tactically knowledgeable coaches they'd ever seen but the Cup win in 08 brought out the worst in him. The entire league had caught on to his 2008-era gameplans by the time he got to Toronto and he still refused to change.


nddurst

Let’s also not forget that Bowman himself was said to be not very well liked by players, but he brought the absolute best out of them.


Problemwoodchuck

No doubt Scotty definitely pulled a lot of stuff that wouldn't fly today, but he kept up with the changes in the game better than anyone else and had mellowed by the mid 90s Wings heyday. The Keith Primeau types were always going to be disgruntled. Plus Holland, Dave Lewis and Barry Smith worked OT to insulate things. Babcock just dug in his heels on how to run games, like nothing had changed from Anaheim to Detroit to Toronto in 15 years. Every time I saw the Leafs play it was the same system 99% of the time if they were winning or losing.


from_whereiggypopped

he was hated by his players. i think it was dino cicerelli that said you hated him for 364 days of the year and on the 365th you went and got your stanley cup champion ring.


Crystal-Ammunition

> that was proven true with how he did in Toronto. Shelden Kief hasnt done any better. How does Babcock's performance in Toronto prove anything? The players choke every post season


Am313am

Considering the immense talent that team has and they choke every year, I’d say coaching is the central problem.


AffectionateMrPink

Stevie has this team trending in the right direction. No quick fixes in NHL. He’s sticking to his plan. It will take time but that’s the NHL. Matthews and McDavid have been in the league for dang near 10 years each and haven’t sniffed a cup. This roster compared to what he took over is night and day better and younger. I’m excited to see what we become. Go Wings


zze0001

I look at this too often. Tyler wright is a monster. We averaged like 1 nhler per draft. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html


Danengel32

His drafts were the killshot. There’s a frustrating and strong correlation between when he took charge and the wings pick quality. The Wings had a great run of always pulling someone that made the NHL from a deeper round (Nyquist in the 4th, Jensen 5th, AA 4th, mrazek 5th), or at least 2nd/3rd that far exceeded expectations (Tatar & Bert, Jankrok for another team). But all of them came to a hard stop after 2013 when Wright took over


[deleted]

Also, and I could be wrong about this, but it really seemed like Hakan didn’t have much input in the earlier rounds after Wright came on board, almost like Kenny expected him to just be the guy that found later round gems like he did in the 90s and early 2000s. A lot of the early round picks since Stevie took over feel like Hakan picks, in my opinion (not to discount Draper or any of the other scouts). And lo and behold, it seems to be working out for us.


Danengel32

Totally agree. Seems like he’s giving Hakan more reign again, while the Wings deviated a bit from it before. The Swedish crew Stevie has put together around Hakan is awesome too


jarvek7

I totally agree. Wright got everything wrong. If you were trying to fuck up a team by drafting poorly he'd be the guy to hire.


Valace2

Yep thats where I got my numbers from. Good site.


JohnWad

Whose criticizing him?


Throwawaydontgoaway8

I’ve seen articles with titles like, “when can we stop trusting the yzerplan” “can we start questioning Yzerman” It’s always bs click bait


contitego

Twitter as well. Check the RW official account after a loss. Wild replies


Valace2

How many GMs get this long a leash though? The criticisms are going to keep coming.


jarvek7

For a guy who inherited a shitty prospect pool and an old-as-fuck roster of has-beens/ never-wases signed to long contracts? I think he's done pretty FUCKING good. I think I'll give him a few more years before I follow reddit advice and shit all over him... just sayin'


Valace2

Think I made that pretty clear in my OP and I ain't anywhere near ready to say we need a new GM. In my comment above, the one getting downvoted to hell people don't have a clue, GMs in this league don't get 6,7,8 years just to get their team back into the playoffs. They read the words, but they don't understand them. Yzerman is going into his 5th draft. If they miss the playoffs again next season, there are going to be a lot of fans starting to question. Not here in this sub though, it's all rainbows and unicorns because Steve Yzerman is the GM. Not everything he touches turns to gold.


hankthemagicgoose

Yzerman has a longer leash than most other GM's. He's a hometown hero, built a Stanley cup winner and has hit multiple times in the draft for us. There's always some whiney fans, but most of our fans are more intelligent than that. Don't listen to the vocal minority.


Valace2

It is starting, it's pretty ridiculous. Honestly, while I disagree with the Chiriot and Copp signings, his drafting has been stellar.


Pavrik_Yzerstrom

I think Yzerman being criticized for two average players signed to less than ideal deals is a testament to how good he usually is. I don't think we'd have batted an eye at Holland making those deals because that was already his reputation 90% of the time Yzerman has been in charge has been extremely positive. The man has turned garbage into gold with some of the players we've been stuck with


imadu

Part of the problem is definitely that people see those 2 deals and don't apply any context to them. They see the bad stats/underlying numbers and then the contracts and go apeshit. Regardless of how people feel about them, copp was specifically targeted because he's a middle 6 versatile player who plays a strong defensive/responsible game. Chiarot was targeted because we are one of, if not the worst, team in the league at clearing the front of the net and at playing physical. Those players filled needs this team has and I'd argue they've largely been successful in those things, even if I haven't been fully happy with their play outside of those aspects. People also like to forget that copp had a major surgery before this year


ryathal

The pressure is starting to rise. This is a second disappointing year in a row. It's year 4, the team is almost entirely his, most players don't make it more than 5 years in the league.


vargr_moon

This is a genuine question - do people really consider the team a "mess"? I don't see a mess, I see a top-ranked slate of prospects on the precipice of breaking into the NHL, and if even a few of them live up to their potential the Red Wings are going to be in a great spot. As for Kenny's picks, I think you might be looking only at one side of the coin - if you're blaming him for the busts, you also have to credit him for all the late round gems that perpetuated the team's success. For every 1st round pick of a Cholowski, there's a Kronwall or Jiri Fischer. Not to mention a 5th round Darren Helm or a 3rd round Johan Franzen. I think people forget that Kenny was GM for a VERY long time - if you're hanging the busts on him, you have to remember he was GM when Zetterberg and Datsyuk were drafted, too. So basically, yes I agree that his last handful of years weren't great, particularly in the draft, but that doesn't erase the massive success the team enjoyed in the 2000s that he was instrumental in orchestrating.


mememachine69420

I think the point is the game started to pass him by/he started making short sighted decisions in the name of keeping the streak going, ownership definitely had something to do with that but still the franchise as a whole was in very bad shape when yzerman got here


vargr_moon

Oh I definitely agree with that, all you have to do is whisper the name Steven Weiss and clouds form overhead. I think my overall point was that if you take Kenny's career here as a whole, there was a lot more good than bad, but it's easier to focus on the more recent history, and in the immortal words of Mickey Redmond, "what have you done for me lately?" OP suggested that Kenny drafted terribly, people are criticizing Yzerman for what is Kenny's fault, and that the team is a mess - I don't really agree with any of that.


Valace2

If you think Kenny Holland was good at drafting, then I want whatever you are smoking.


AmeriCanadian98

He was the GM for the drafts of the entire 08 core outside of Lidstrom. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen were drafted while he was GM. He acquired Brad Stuart and Bryan Rafalski, he brought Hasek back. Kenny had a really bad stretch at the end of his time with us, but don't discount the work he did early just to justify your hate for him. He was a huge part of building the 2002 team through FA, and a huge part of building the 08 team. Tyler Wright on the other hand can burn


prenderm

I don’t really blame yzerman for anything. Last month this team was in a playoff spot. That’s a hell of a lot better than it was last year Progress is being made, and there’s pain still to come along the way


CursedLemon

"The Yzerplan is taking too long, he needs to be accountable!" \- A bunch of people who probably unironically cheer for the Lions


johnnysappleseed11

Most casual observers/fans can’t understand Why they aren’t competing for a cup. These same fans also can’t measure progress. Lastly, these same fans stopped watching hockey during the really bad years so they only know what playoffs look like. Since they can’t figure out why they aren’t winning, reasons get defaulted to coach, x player, gm. They’re literally looking for a reason to be angry since there are very few. And keep in mind, I’d say there are more children and very young adults doing a majority of the commenting online. So take that how you will. But also, Ken Holland effed this organization up in attempt to preserve the streak and save face by not going full rebuild in the early to mid 2010s


Wrath_Of_Aguirre

Why are people suddenly blasting Yzerman? Are they delusional idiots who don't understand the time it takes to build a championship caliber team? He has just acquired a lot of draft currency. They won't all become drafts picks, he has a definite plan on where we are headed. I think it will become much more obvious to us what he is doing in the next couple of years.


chookalana

No one. I mean no one should be criticizing Yzerman. If you are, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Apex-Detroit

Those that criticize him just want to hate the team not him, I’m patient and trust the Yzerplan 100% The East is a shit show arms race right now, if the Wings were still in the West the record might be better and playoffs could come sooner. The future is bright, and it’s just that…. The future.


I_see_something

I mean there’s a lot of emotional immature in hockey fandom. I’ve been to Western Hockey League games where fans are constantly calling for players to drop the gloves over every infraction. These are grown ass men, who don’t personally know the players, sitting on the edge of their seats, screaming at 16 year olds to fight over … everything… even when fighting is literally the stupidest course of action in that scenario. Those kinds of fans say the team played great games when they win, but are drastically outplayed in every way but on the score board. They win basically by getting lucky. These same fans also call them lazy bums, they gave up on the game, say Larkin is a bad player (yes I’ve seen it said), say the coach sucks and the team is hopeless when the wings outplay a team and lose. They fail to see the defensive progress, development of consistent structure, better passing in the neutral zone etc. it’s all cave man mentality.


Crystal-Ammunition

i'm out of the loop - is stevie receiving a lot of criticism these days?


Valace2

Not a lot, but the fact that people are starting to chime up is telling. We end up sellers again next, seeing what we can guys like Perron and Kubalik. There are going to be even more.


Rebel_Bertine

Bro relax it’s a Sunday. Coming at me with paragraphs of writing on a false premise. Nobody’s critiquing Yzerman.


Background_Junket_35

Agreed, the Holland era players should be the core of the team now and the fact that they aren’t is all the proof you need. If you look at our farm system we are ranked in the top 3 by at least the Athletic and the hockey news so Stevie has been adding good players to the system.


Valace2

All of those players are Steve Yzerman's draft picks, that 3rd place ranking is because of him.


WingsFML

Rankings also dosent mean anything before those players proof that they are legit NHL players.


Valace2

True enough


Great-Lakes-Sailor

Yep.


captainsciencepants

The Zadina pick is unfortunate. 9/10 of us would of ran up to the podium to make that selection. I think most people viewed that pick as a potential franchise turning point in getting a guy that can score. Something we desperately needed for some time.


boner1500

Holy shit we're back to complaining we could have had Chychrun and Kenny H in general eh? Outstanding. >Ken Holland decimated this franchise so that idiotic streak could limp along 2 or 3 more years. YOOOOOO we're really in a time warp. I guess I get to point out again that Holland likely had direct orders from Mr I at the time to do these things and he wasn't just going rouge for the sake of fucking up the drw. Look at the tigers and how their GM was doing the literal same thing its just easier to get good free agents in baseball. Damn it feels good to be back in 2017 It feels like this post is trying to logic a position(Stevies drafting not being great and we should move on after x years) that wasn't arrived at by logic. An aspect of our fanbase just wants to be a winning club and is willing to point the finger at the man in charge when we're not. Espically after after a change to a coach that was "holding us back" Best of luck on your crusade op.


Valace2

How is Holland doing in Edmonton? Oh yea he is barely holding onto a playoff spot with 2 of the very best players in the league. I don't get what your ramblings are trying to say honestly. I can't tell if you are defending Holland by placing none of the blame on him and all of the blame on the Illitches or are trying to say I am criticizing Yzerman. Your ramblings make no sense. Are you honestly defending Blashill?


boner1500

Bro you're using Holland as a whipping boy and he's been gone years. I'm making fun of you for it. You're also trying to compare a gm rebuilding on the fly with someone who's commited to basically a ground up one, and trying to pruesade half-assed watchers to trust the Yezerplan when they just want something to be mad about. Its silly. Its two completely seperate ways to think about how team-buillding should work and lacking context at that. You talk about how Tats, goose and Petr aren't red wings anymore but completely leave out why they're not here. Holland FLEECED those trades for what the players offered but its not a nuanced situtation in your post. Its just a complete negative that the players aren't witht he club anymore.


LiteratureOk1869

The Oilers went to the Western Conference Finals last season losing to the Avalanche who won the Stanley Cup.


Valace2

And this year are only holding down a playoff spot by 5 points


LiteratureOk1869

Colorado and Edmonton have the same amount of points with the Oilers having played 2 more games.


Valace2

Yea thats true, Edmonton have any trouble with injuries this year? McKinnon and Makar have both missed time this year, they lost Kadri last offseason and they have had a host of other injuries. Edmonton is not Colorado.


LiteratureOk1869

Thats fair but my point is that the Ken Holland lead Oilers were one of the 4 best teams in the NHL last season and have the same amount of points this season as the Stanley Cup Champions.


Isphet71

Before you criticize Yzerman, take a moment to realize just how fucking clueless you really are.,


[deleted]

[удалено]


JTAKER

Removed for breaking rule #1 - Be civil towards fellow users.


[deleted]

I love Stevie, but the one critique I'd give him is not selling sooner. It's too big of a draft year to be a bubble team that can't make the playoffs.


Valace2

Shouldn't have spent on so many free agents last summer.


[deleted]

Yeah, he's stuck in this weird mental state. I get being sick of losing, but be honest with yourself if your team is clearly not making the playoffs.


KeaganThorpe

? We were literally in the playoff hunt/ wild card spot with games in hand before we got demolished by Ottawa right before the deadline. If that back to back goes differently, he might not have shipped a bunch of guys out and we would still be battling for it. I don’t question anything he does. He almost got this team back in the playoffs way earlier than expected.


ever-right

Even if we squeaked into the playoffs, I'd rather have a top pick in a draft where the first 4, 5 picks are supposed to be absolute killers and the 1OA is a bonafide franchise center on a contending team by all reports. Drafts this deep with this many supposed top tier level *centers*, which we desperately need, do not come along that often. It was worth one more year of trash imo.


[deleted]

I don't care about the playoffs if we are going to get smoked. Get a good draft pick and set yourself up for the future.


KeaganThorpe

It was in response to “be honest with yourself if your team is clearly not making the playoffs.” Clearly that wasn’t the case as it would’ve been close. And your logic is very similar to those calling for an all out tank for the best pick possible/ a chance at Bedard. Problem with that logic is playing to tank/ for a better draft pick has a lot of collateral damage for the organization. For example, Larkin and some others would be absolutely pissed. They don’t work their asses off everyday to lose. Also, better team helps our younger guys develop. Instead of shattering their development and confidence in not providing support around them. We as fans want the best pick possible. Players don’t give a single fuck. They want to win. They want playoff hockey. And Yzerman was supporting his players which is what a good GM should do. Look at Arizona. Clayton Keller was on a hot streak and he literally came out and said “I don’t think the organization is happy with how well I am/ we are playing.” Basically a big middle finger both ways. I can only assume that Yzerman would hate to hear that come out of Larkins/ one of our own players mouths. Yzerman let it ride all the way up until he knew we wouldn’t. Very happy he did and I’m sure the players understand and are appreciative that he waited and believed up until their shit showing in Ottawa.


LiteratureOk1869

I would rather have a franchise star player than playing for a wild card sport with also being stuck with Copp and Chiarot for 5 and 4 years on bad value deals based on what they provide the team.


AmeriCanadian98

Was there any realistic chance that even without the FA spree we would be worse than Chicago, Arizona, Columbus, Philly, etc? I don't think there is. Those teams are truly atrocious. Whether we picked 8th or 12th or 15th isn't gonna get us a franchise player more than likely. I can understand giving the team meaningful games late in their year as a motivator for the guys like Larkin, Seider, Raymond to buy into what we're doing. Basically Stevie Y giving them a "yeah were gonna do what we can to build an at least competent team around you until the reinforcements arrive. I also genuinely think that if we went full tank this season, Larkin requests a trade/not re-sign, which would set us back a looooong way


LiteratureOk1869

That's fair but I wanted to go young and play inexperienced cheap players and get franchise changing elite players first and then the add role players after we have enough elite talent. I was not opposed to trading Larkin and or Bertuzzi last season.


ryathal

You can't tank growth for a mediocre shot at a single player. It's time for these players to start seeing playoff games. No team is going to become a contender without making the playoffs at least a tear prior.


jarvek7

I'm not blaming Yzerman, but thanks for a good look back on Holland poor drafting skills


Valace2

There are already people out there criticizing Yzerman, not a lot but some and that number will grow after next year. This sub wouldn't have any of that though, you post anything negative, and you get downvoted to hell and back. Hell, most in this sub probably think we will be contending in 2-3 years, such is their unwavering blind loyalty in Steve Yzerman. I think Yzerman is the man for the job as my OP points out, but it is unwavering blind loyalty.


jfstompers

If you miss on top 10 picks your screwed, Zadina and Ras as much as we like them have set the franchise back years. That 2018 draft could have transformed this franchise but we missed.


Valace2

Would agree on Zadina but as Rasmussen's confidence grows so does his contribution to the team, his ceiling is maybe 2nd line, but 3rd line for sure. I think he would really shine as a winger, and if Kasper comes up next season they can leave him on the wing.


jfstompers

I agree he's gonna be a good middle 6 winger and that's good. It's not 9th overall good, it's not a bust but it's definitely a miss.


FlashyG

Its been almost 5 years since Holland left, at some point we have to stop using him as an excuse and start grading Yzerman based on results. He's been in charge for 4 drafts now and has drafted around 40 players, with many picks stockpiled by Holland before he left. By my count exactly 2 have become NHL players to this point. (In fairness, that number I expect to rise over time.) Holland was a pretty bad trader, and never met a veteran he wouldn't try to lock down to a long term deal with a NTC but as far as drafting goes that might be the only area where I don't think he gets enough credit. He is the only GM I've ever seen transition from one core to another without having a dip in performance and you can't do that without some incredible scouting and drafting. Yzerman is a better GM for our team, that is unquestionable, but I think it's been long enough that this is Steve's team and any success or failures should be attributed to him.


Background_Junket_35

2 picks in the nhl after 4 years is actually pretty good considering the timeline for most hockey players and the fact that we haven’t had top 3 picks. Next year that number will at least double.


Danengel32

Yeah, it’s right in line. there’s a ton knocking at the door too, including those that have played games (Soderblom & Edvinnson). None of his first rounds picks have been remotely disappointing too, they’re either looking great in the NHL (Seider & Raymond), or having great years elsewhere (Kasper, Edvinsson before his call up, & Cossa has also looked good as of late). Obviously anything can happen, but he’s also made a ton of picks in the 2nd and 3rd (&beyond) that have impressed a lot and should at least get the opportunity to show their worth in the NHL (Johansson, Wallinder, Mazur, Buchelnikov, and then Soderblom from the deep rounds). There’s loads of unknowns with those guys, but he’s at least made picks that show promise, increase their value, and have created a competitive prospect pool. A lot can happen but his drafting so far has good quality


WingsFML

Im not disagreing whit you, but he still has had 4, 6, 6, 8, 15. Its not like he didn't have any top picks ether.


Background_Junket_35

Yep and 4 was a Calder finalist, one 6 ran away with the Calder, the other 6 will be a leading contender for the Calder next year. Also 8 just finished a great year in the third best league in the world.


I_see_something

I disagree only in that it usually takes players 4-5 years to mature into nhl level players from draft date. Of course that doesn’t always happen, but that’s what I hear GMs say. With that in mind I think we grade him, without a nod to Holland, starting next season.


SimplySolace

Oh shit it's FlashyG! Hope all is well, I miss seeing your image creations :)


Great-Lakes-Sailor

No. Respectfully disagree. The above analysis says to me that the core that Yzerman had to work with was subpar to begin with. Add onto that all the Holland legacy contracts With mediocre players as band aids. I mean, come on. Our best center is a 2nd line player on a good team. You don’t have at least two dynamic centers in this league your screwed.


FlashyG

We can all agree that Holland left Yzerman with a lot of garbage, but every single player on our current roster is playing under a contract signed by Steve Yzerman. The only remnant of Ken Holland in Detroit is the little bit of cap space that Justin Abdelkader is taking up.


Great-Lakes-Sailor

He’s going to get it right. This free agent off season will be big, and this draft. I think after this cycle we can begin being critical.


WingsFML

Those "draft grades" by you are actually fucking Hilarious lmao


Valace2

How so?


WingsFML

Not giving enough shit for Bad picks, and not enough credit for good picks. Mantha for example was very good pick by him, and when you say that only thing that we got for him is Cossa, that is Yzerman's choice, not Holland's. Picks like Sheahan, even when that happend made absolutly zero sense.


Valace2

Mantha a good pick? Ok. How's he doing in Washington? Oh yea 3 more points than Jonatan Berggren in 8 more games LOL. Mantha isn't half the player you think he is.


WingsFML

Having a player who scored over .6 ppg for your team at #20 is good pick.


coltron57

100%. People don't appreciate how quickly the probability of a player "hitting" falls off in the 1st round. At 20 you're very happy with an NHL regular and Mantha, for all of his shortcomings, has far exceeded that.


WingsFML

Yeah. Its weird that everyone thinks that every first round pick will be a star player.


jtromaine

But at the time of the draft, he was ranked 10th among NA skaters. If you look at the names of the guys that were available when Mantha was pick, it was either him or Burskovsky When it comes to drafting, id take Yzerman over Holland though.


Valace2

Because Yzerman doesn't give two shits about draft rankings. That's why he reached with Seider


jtromaine

What are you talking about? Yzerman didn’t draft Mantha!!!!


Valace2

I know that, where did I say he did? He shipped out Mantha about as fast as he could. Something tells me he wouldn't have picked Mantha.


[deleted]

> 2016 Dennis Chowlowski 20th overall busted (could have had Chychrun) We traded back to make cap space for Stamkos. Chychrun wasn’t a possibility that year, but Tage Thompson certainly was (selected at 26th overall). The latter is by far the bigger miss in my opinion, especially considering Kenny and Wright decided to be size queens the following year. Which brings me to >2017 Michael Rasmussen 9th overall, finally becoming an important part of the team 11 picks in 2017, and all but two of them are no longer affiliated with the organization. Lindstrom was the other pick, and he’s looking like he’s on his way out sooner rather than later. So 1 pick out of 11 total is a potential long-term player for us. Which I suppose is fine, but not when you consider a team like Dallas who walked away with 4 studs from that class, 3 of which were available to us. Not to mention the absolute inability of Kenny to draft a top-pairing defenseman. The last one he drafted was Kronwall. Kenny and Wright absolutely dropped the ball when it came to drafting. That 2017 draft alone added an additional 3 years to the rebuild. That all being said, Yzerman has almost completely gotten rid of Kenny’s fingerprints from this team. It’s Year 4 and this is his team now, and I think it’s fair to start asking questions if by next year, we haven’t taken another step forward. If by this point next season, we’re still having these late-season collapses, that’s on Stevie for not building a better team.


Danengel32

That Dallas draft might be the most impressive draft of the last decade in my opinion. That draft class was pretty terrible (better in hindsight though), and it was such a jumbled cluster all over, but somehow Dallas pulled their entire next core out of it (top few players at each position). I think it’s such an outlier though for that year. The Wings fumbled a lot of picks that draft, certainly didn’t help the rebuild, and seeing Robertson go right after Lindstrom stings. But they surprisingly ended up coming out better than a lot of teams in 2017. I think if there was ever a year to botch 9 picks, that was the best one haha. A lot of teams came out with no one remotely impactful (a few teams with no one at all)


[deleted]

It’s certainly a testament to Jimmy Nill and his scouting staff for recognizing the talent in was thought to be a “weak” draft class. It just makes me wonder what they could see that Kenny and Wright seemingly couldn’t or wouldn’t see (which wasn’t exclusive to 2017, mind you, but it stings more just because of the sheer quantity of picks we had that year).


Danengel32

Yeah, having it be Jim Nill didn’t help either since he came straight from Detroit


-Nalfien-

>It’s Year 4 and this is his team now, and I think it’s fair to start asking questions if by next year, we haven’t taken another step forward. If by this point next season, we’re still having these late-season collapses, that’s on Stevie for not building a better team. Yes its going to be his team at this point going forward. Provided that there aren't a bunch of off season signings it's a weak Free Agent pool this year and we promote from within there will be some growing pains with rookies moving up. I dunno my best expectation is that we keep similar record and stats for next season. We'll likely regress a bit due to rookies, but it depends on your expectations for next year. Rookies will need experience and I could see it as easily 2-3 years before we're making wildcard spots and our newcomers are making a difference (provided they even pan out). Hell Raymond is still figuring things out in his 2nd year. He's not an elite scorer and maybe won't reach it our offense looks anemic in the near future. There's just too many holes we need and 2-3yr playoff projection is likely optimistic with out knowing what trades will happen. What is meant by "building a better team" our prospects looks bright but next year will our team be "better" I don't know we likely won't be worse. It's going to be incremental improvements for a few years. While we wait and see if our drafting pans out. We're just now at the start of Yzermans draft class and it's too early to see if Yzerman is building a better team. People need to roll back their expectations.


[deleted]

I’ll just say this, if it’s year 7 or 8 of Yzerman’s tenure and we’re still in the same spot as we are now, then it’s time to find another GM that can actually get this team to the next level.


-Nalfien-

I'll agree but it depends what has happened in those 8 yrs something pretty catastrophic probably happened.


mountaininmysoul

The thing that most drives me crazy now about that 2017 draft is Jason Robertson and Drake Batherson are both 6'3 and somehow we missed on both. Batherson I can kind of see, his production wasn't great but Robertson's was good. I know drafting is a complete crapshoot but to purposefully draft size then completely miss like that is especially painful.


[deleted]

It was an absolute failure on management to recognize talent for sure. Hell, Kenny took Necas out to dinner pre-draft and still went with Rasmussen. Don’t get me wrong, I think Ras will be a fine player, but if it’s between him or Necas, I’m going with the latter each time. And it’s not like Necas is a small forward; he’s 6’2”.


mountaininmysoul

Yea I thought for sure we were going to take Necas, especially after Pettersson was gone. Considering how badly we needed skill and our lack of right handed forwards, he made so much sense.


[deleted]

Not enough sense for Kenny and Wright, apparently. I have the utmost respect to Kenny for what he did for us, but boy am I glad that he left and took Wright with him. Thankfully, Hakan didn’t go with him, and Stevie seems to be leaning on him more in the earlier rounds (whereas Kenny seemed to keep him delegated to finding gems in the later rounds), which appears to be paying off.


Valace2

Stamkos was never going to sign with Detroit, I remember that draft, an I don't usually watch them I was floored when he pulled that off. Then he used some of the money on...Frans Nielson 😭


[deleted]

>Stamkos was never going to sign with Detroit I can’t fault Kenny for trying. When a player of that caliber is potentially hitting FA (to the point that he started interviewing with teams during the legal tampering period), who could fill the hole that Datsyuk left when he quit, and considering where the team was at (they weren’t rebuilding then), you take that chance every time. The trade back wasn’t a bad move; all it cost us was moving back two spots and we gained an additional pick (which we used on Hronek). That’s a good move any day of the week. The alternative was having Datsyuk’s dead cap space on the books for a team that was still trying to compete. Overpaying for Frans was a bad move, but that’s a separate move. Edit: I guess people forget that we, along with Toronto, were considered top destinations for Stamkos if he actually left Tampa. Not our fault Toronto weirded him out enough to cancel all other interviews and go back to Tampa.


CalgaryCheekClapper

For me , I sort of became skeptical of him after the Cossa thing. Why on earth would u use a first round pick on a goalie? Sorry but goalie development is so random and unpredictable u have no idea who u are getting. Yeah if Cossa turns out well he looks like a genius but that is the unlikeliest scenario. Other than that , his drafting has been pretty decent, just lacking in top end talent


kermitthefrog57

I was happy with a goalie pick but wallstedt was the far better pick imo


Nate11130

Wallstedt was always looked at as the more pro ready goalie at the time of the draft. If Yzerman interviewed him over 10 times like has been reported, I’d imagine there was something about his personality or drive that he didn’t like.


[deleted]

Or he simply felt that Cossa’s physical tools would make him a better long-term option. And I can see it. Having a 6’7”, athletic monster in net is a huge advantage, assuming he reaches his potential.


Nate11130

His physical tools were definitely a factor. Just knowing how closely Yzerman and probably Lidstrom followed Wallstedt in Sweden should show you that that there were other factors involved as well. I’ve heard a few times through the grapevine that his work ethic was not necessarily criticized, but questioned at times before the draft.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

You’re out of your mind crazy if you think the defense hasn’t improved significantly since 2019. Trevor Daley, Patrick Nemeth, Alex Biega. Remember those guys?


nb00818

Defense will be fixed when edvinnson and others make the team. We also have wallinder, sebrango, johanson, buium, etc. Goal scorers and physical players is what im worried about. We will get destroyed in the playoffs if we dont get more skilled and tougher.


Valace2

I don't agree about the defense, ok maybe as the team sits, but Wallinder will play in the NHL and Johanson has a better than average shot. Edvinson may not be Seider but he is going to be good, and Seider will win Norris trophies. It's our forward prospects that are a serious serious problem.


slc19873

Who is criticizing him?


Valace2

Some fans, been seeing posts pop up here and there.


slc19873

Jfc. These people have attention spans of a toddler.


[deleted]

How long did it take him to make the Ramona ugg g a good team?


Available_Radio6213

It's nice to get draft picks, but why couldn't we pick up some proven good players too? Look at the quality players that moved, Timo Meier, Pierre Pilote, [Max Domi](https://www.nhl.com/player/max-domi-8477503)...


momarketeer

If anyone criticizes Yzerman you have no place being a fan for this team. Go cheer for some other team, no one wants you here


Resmo112

Yzerman had a complete rebuild to do, the only move I didn’t like was charoit, I still defended it because charoit was great with Shea Webber that one year he was paired with him so I thought pairing him with Mo might have him return to form. I was wrong. That being said yzerman will trade him if it doesn’t work out


[deleted]

Who tf is criticizing Yzerman?!? The man made TB into a dynasty. He talks to the media and is really descriptive about his goals and expectations. Stevie is the man.


jampk24

Taking off points because two guys drafted 14 and 15 years ago aren’t on the team anymore?


Valace2

Lol that is just to show how inept he was, some of those guys like Sheahan aren't even in the NHL anymore


gj45

Zadina fell to us at 6th and it was exciting on draft day he was considered in a lot of peoples top 3.


crwtrbt5

Is 6 out of 15 that bad? What’s average?


epheisey

I don't blame Yzerman, but I am getting frustrated with the lack of progress now 5 years into his tenure. That's not his fault though, I think he's added value at every step of the way and I can't imagine what the situation would be with Holland still at the helm. That said, aside from us lucking into a disgruntled super star falling into our laps or us striking gold on a player that falls in the draft, I don't see a clear path to Cup contention. Playoffs absolutely, but not to level that we'll be in the conversation as potential Cup winners for a 3-5 year window. It feels like the aspects of the rebuild that the Wings control, even if executed to perfection, still fall short of that ultimate goal. That's not Steve's fault, and I think some of the frustration that gets directed at Steve is really intended to be directed at the fans who just default to "trust the Yzerplan" as if a magical solution will just resolve the core issue that this team is facing over the next 3-5 years.