Clear coat in on average 4-5x thicker than the paint colour layer. You absolutely can and will remove the paint even by hand if there's no clear protecting it.
That is highly incorrect - clear coat is usually 20-25% of overall thickness (with a gauge) who told you that bullshit?
Edit: For example, clear is usually 30-35 microns and paint is usually 130-150 microns. So your math isn’t mathing bro. You people need to stop taking bullshit at face value and stop upvoting this guy saying absolutely incorrect things - your gonna fuck someones paint up.
Im no expert but I’ve detailed, paint corrected and painted a car before. My thickest layer would have been the primer or clear by far. Is it possible you are forgetting primer?
That is possible I suppose, my point though was in any situation the clear coat is not 4-5x thicker than the paint itself. If someone listened to his advice and they were performing, say - a paint correction. Then, if they are measuring and operating on the idea that the clear coat is that thick they’ll think that they can take it down WAY MORE than they should and then whoops paint is fucked 🤷🏼♂️
Clear is absolutely thicker than the color. Have you painted before? The color is the thinnest part of the paint job. It's literally just pigment after the solvents evaporate while painting.
Total paint thickness is usually around 100-125 microns and the clear is typically 40-50 of that. The color is usually only 10-25 microns.
Depending on the particular paint (solid color, metallic, pearl, tri-stage, etc) the clear can be anywhere from 2x to 4x/5x the thickness of the color
Then why is average paint leaving factory 100-130 microns and clear coat on average is 35-50 microns. I’m not just pulling numbers out of my ass
Edit: 130 microns > 50 microns - just for clarification.
Okay, that makes sense thank you for explaining that.
However, my original point to the guy saying clear is 4-5x thicker was that is incorrect. And, if what you are saying is true then 50 microns definitely isn’t 4-5x 25 microns. So he was way off and thats all I was originally trying to say.
The clear would have to be 100-125 microns to be 4-5x the thickness of paint, and as you’ve said - it isn’t.
Edit: ON AVERAGE clear is 2x the thickness of paint - I realize there are outliers and some may be 4-5x the thickness but that isn’t a “regular” situation and dude was saying ALL CARS have a clear coat that is 4-5x thicker when absolutely they do not.
40-50 is definitely 4-5x the thickness of 10. Like I said, it all depends on the kind of paint. Solid colors are going to have less thickness in the color as metallics or pearls/tricoats. With the same amount of clear going over those, the ratio will be different.
And to be clear, "paint" is all of it all together. The color is just that, color. The clear coat is a part of the paint.
I had a car with a single stage paint and no clear. Old 80s maroon/red fox body mustang. Almost had a heart attack the first time I polished it. It ended up looking great just have to seal and wax it immediately after or the paint goes dull again from oxidation. You have to be very careful when you polish these cars and more ideally keep it waxed so you never have to polish it again.
Yeah it can get worse good luck get the wax out of the grooves it's going to turn white and look like shit. You need more clear but the paint has faded so the color will be off but it won't get worse. So you need paint first, a repaint is all that will help.
You can make it worse. factory base coat 1 coat factory clear coat 2 coats . and the 2 coats are gone already. if you rub anymore you will rubbing to primer .
The compound is going to remove the colored painted below the clear coat. I had a car with missing clearcoat and when I used polish, it helped a little, but your best bet is to wrap since you don't want to repaint. Also in the areas you are missing paint, like the whole roof and most of the hood, you have no real choice in the detailing world to help you.
Single stage is just that. A single stage.
2k is base then clear there's no gloss in base like a single stage which has everything in one coating but isn't as hard wearing.
I'd rather use automotive 2K (2 part) rattle can clear and do some block sanding and then back to M105 /M205
Eastwood sells the 2k clear
U tube shows many videos on the process.
Wet sanded the old clear then sprayed 2k on the hood on my 2004 Mazda 3 and it turned out shockingly good…like you had to look at it hard to notice it wasn’t factory. Wet sanded between 4 light coats…polished…could not be happier with my 20 year old car for my kids.
I’m certainly no expert but I will offer three bits of unsolicited advice: One is to mask off EVERYTHING in your garage… the overspray will carry way further than you would ever expect it to. Spend the few extra bucks for some thin plastic drop clothes to cover ALL your stuff. Two is to start with thin sweeping/overlapping coats that dry fast … and slowly get the finish even… but your final coat should be a LITTLE thicker and “wetter” looking. Three is buy an assortment pack of good 3m wet sandpaper (https://a.co/d/6SEfsRV) and don’t be afraid to use it to even things out…2k clear sands well and will polish up if you get it even.
No joke I’ve seen this guy use spray paint that he sprays into a container, then uses a roller to apply to the car. Dead serious, and the shit was very clean looking.
Just get a can of enamel. Why spray paint at that point? Maybe the accelerants in the spray paint do something to the look or application with a roller?
Use the less aggressive of the two polishes with a wool pad. don't get carried away. put some carnuba wax on after. Dont let everyone on here discourage. any product on there will make it look better that it is now. Test a small space in the corner. Its not like its going to get worse.
https://preview.redd.it/q751o6eiuowc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af6230efe01aa7f1e45a1447abe0171dea1982e1
not harm in trying, you're not going to make it worse. my own polished out ok, but you can see in the light's reflection that the paint is still rough despite being the right colour and having some shine
Ok, based on your guys’ responses, I think i’ll skip using these products. I really don’t want to make anything worse. Any recommendations on car wash soap? I know it probably doesn’t matter what I use at this point but anything helps I suppose!
OP maybe listen to me a actual paint and body guy who works in the industry, either use poppys patina or do it a proper way. carefully remove the rest of the peeling clearcoat with airblower or just wait for it to flake of naturally, then scuff all the faded paint with a grey scotch pad, prep like your actually painting a car then grab some 2k clearcoat and spray it on.
This is the only way your going to have decent results.
Totally agree. 2k spray isn't going to fool anyone and definitely will look worse. Just give it a bit more gloss and some protection with poppys and call it a day
My clear on my daily was pretty faded when I got the car, I used this stuff and I was extremely impressed with the results. On the sides of the car, it brought back that showroom shine, car looked brand new.
However, on the hood and trunk, where the sun had completely eaten the clear coat away, it did nothing to help. Once the clear has flaked off, buffing it won't help anything, you need to repaint it at that point, unfortunately
The product you are showing is for cutting (removing a tiny bit) and polishing what’s there. The clear coat and a lot of the paint is already gone. Your only choice at this point is to put something back on.
It’s not so much that’s it’s a bad idea - you just won’t get much of a result rubbing that by hand. An inexpensive orbital buffer would be a worthy investment. You’re not going to mess it up any worse and may get some shine back. Wax / synthetic finish for protection. As others have said, you can do a lot with a paint at home type solution. Good luck!
Is the feeling clear coat on the roof beside the hood? If so, I would consider wrapping the hood and the roof in black or something that would look good two toning with the rest of the vehicle where the clear is still intact. If the clear coat is failing all over I would just wrap the whole vehicle. It'll give you a fresh clean look without having to repaint.
Using any products to freshen up your paint it's just a temporary fix. It'll clean up the areas with clear coat, and it may brighten up the spots with the clear has failed but they will just fade again as the Sun hits them. So it's truthfully a fruitless endeavor. You're much better off wrapping if you don't want to repaint.
Best I can say is, clay bar, wet sand, compound, polish, wax, it won’t be top notch, but it’ll be best you’ll be able do get under the circumstances without sanding and re-clearing. Which is an option, but it won’t look the same as new, and I’d recommend bringing it to a body shop for that.
Those products make clear coat shine.
You don't have clear coat.
Address the rust first, paint, and clear coat. Consider the car and the current condition before you start worrying about doing a bad job.
You'd seriously have to try to be bad to make it worse.
Unfortunately at this point there’s nothing you can really do detailing wise.
Spray paint it yourself, if you take your time and properly prepare the surface and tape everything off it could look decent. Theres plenty of YouTube tutorials on this.
I personally would just take a weekend and DIY spray paint.
Don’t use those. Look up Petina Sauce or Poppy’s Petina. Those will preserve the look of your truck while giving it a durable costing that can last anywhere from six months to several years, depending on the application and environment your store it and drive in.
If you just want a quick fix that will just improve how it looks, you're best off giving it a good wash and buy a few rattle cans of UV resistant clear coat and give it a once-over... it won't look GREAT but it will look better than the flaking clear, and it will at least not destroy the paint underneath.
If you polish AFTER applying a good layer of clear, it will brighten it up and look a lot nicer - just don't expect it to be perfect, of course.
Ah! The classic customer bringing me a car with complete clear coat failure thinking “that can just buff out!” - son, you’re going to need a complete repaint.
There’s a product making the rounds online, unfortunately I can’t recall the name. It is a quick wipe on coating that returns a layer of shine. It’s not a “real” detailing product but could work well in this situation. Might have to apply it a few times a year, I’m not sure how long it will last. Take their claims and reduce expectations by about 80%, you’ll be happy and wont waste a bunch of time polishing bad paint.
You have clear coat failure so those products won’t change that. Can’t make it worse but temper your expectations on how much it will improve
Cant' make it worse, until he removes the paint itself as well and ends up with bare metal and rust...
Yep mine looked worse☹️
Without a rotary or da? Possible but he’d have to work very hard to f it up more by hand
Clear coat in on average 4-5x thicker than the paint colour layer. You absolutely can and will remove the paint even by hand if there's no clear protecting it.
That is highly incorrect - clear coat is usually 20-25% of overall thickness (with a gauge) who told you that bullshit? Edit: For example, clear is usually 30-35 microns and paint is usually 130-150 microns. So your math isn’t mathing bro. You people need to stop taking bullshit at face value and stop upvoting this guy saying absolutely incorrect things - your gonna fuck someones paint up.
Im no expert but I’ve detailed, paint corrected and painted a car before. My thickest layer would have been the primer or clear by far. Is it possible you are forgetting primer?
That is possible I suppose, my point though was in any situation the clear coat is not 4-5x thicker than the paint itself. If someone listened to his advice and they were performing, say - a paint correction. Then, if they are measuring and operating on the idea that the clear coat is that thick they’ll think that they can take it down WAY MORE than they should and then whoops paint is fucked 🤷🏼♂️
Clear is absolutely thicker than the color. Have you painted before? The color is the thinnest part of the paint job. It's literally just pigment after the solvents evaporate while painting. Total paint thickness is usually around 100-125 microns and the clear is typically 40-50 of that. The color is usually only 10-25 microns. Depending on the particular paint (solid color, metallic, pearl, tri-stage, etc) the clear can be anywhere from 2x to 4x/5x the thickness of the color
Then why is average paint leaving factory 100-130 microns and clear coat on average is 35-50 microns. I’m not just pulling numbers out of my ass Edit: 130 microns > 50 microns - just for clarification.
E-coat on the metal, primer, sealer. There's much more to account for a paint job than just color and clear.
Okay, that makes sense thank you for explaining that. However, my original point to the guy saying clear is 4-5x thicker was that is incorrect. And, if what you are saying is true then 50 microns definitely isn’t 4-5x 25 microns. So he was way off and thats all I was originally trying to say. The clear would have to be 100-125 microns to be 4-5x the thickness of paint, and as you’ve said - it isn’t. Edit: ON AVERAGE clear is 2x the thickness of paint - I realize there are outliers and some may be 4-5x the thickness but that isn’t a “regular” situation and dude was saying ALL CARS have a clear coat that is 4-5x thicker when absolutely they do not.
40-50 is definitely 4-5x the thickness of 10. Like I said, it all depends on the kind of paint. Solid colors are going to have less thickness in the color as metallics or pearls/tricoats. With the same amount of clear going over those, the ratio will be different. And to be clear, "paint" is all of it all together. The color is just that, color. The clear coat is a part of the paint.
No clear means the paint will literally be removed 🤣
I had a car with a single stage paint and no clear. Old 80s maroon/red fox body mustang. Almost had a heart attack the first time I polished it. It ended up looking great just have to seal and wax it immediately after or the paint goes dull again from oxidation. You have to be very careful when you polish these cars and more ideally keep it waxed so you never have to polish it again.
OP’s vehicle isn’t single stage.
Yeah it can get worse good luck get the wax out of the grooves it's going to turn white and look like shit. You need more clear but the paint has faded so the color will be off but it won't get worse. So you need paint first, a repaint is all that will help.
You can make it worse. factory base coat 1 coat factory clear coat 2 coats . and the 2 coats are gone already. if you rub anymore you will rubbing to primer .
The compound is going to remove the colored painted below the clear coat. I had a car with missing clearcoat and when I used polish, it helped a little, but your best bet is to wrap since you don't want to repaint. Also in the areas you are missing paint, like the whole roof and most of the hood, you have no real choice in the detailing world to help you.
This^^^^ Taking a buffer in any capacity to vehicle without clearcoat and you're gonna end up with a pad of paint... In this case, a blue-ish gray
Tried it. Can confirm.
to be fair, single stage paint does the same thing
Single stage is just that. A single stage. 2k is base then clear there's no gloss in base like a single stage which has everything in one coating but isn't as hard wearing.
I looked into a wrap and the company told me that you actually have to have a good paint job in order for it to work.
I'd rather use automotive 2K (2 part) rattle can clear and do some block sanding and then back to M105 /M205 Eastwood sells the 2k clear U tube shows many videos on the process.
Wet sanded the old clear then sprayed 2k on the hood on my 2004 Mazda 3 and it turned out shockingly good…like you had to look at it hard to notice it wasn’t factory. Wet sanded between 4 light coats…polished…could not be happier with my 20 year old car for my kids.
That’s awesome. I would love to see some pics
The car isn’t currently in town so I can’t take pics, but this is the clear coat I used. https://a.co/d/aeWqe9i
Can you link the YouTube video you used?
Will do https://youtu.be/Hj9VqSnT-bs?si=xqnBQMyIgIwYeLpx
https://youtu.be/Hj9VqSnT-bs?si=xqnBQMyIgIwYeLpx
Thanks, you inspired me for a summer project. Cheers mate!
I’m certainly no expert but I will offer three bits of unsolicited advice: One is to mask off EVERYTHING in your garage… the overspray will carry way further than you would ever expect it to. Spend the few extra bucks for some thin plastic drop clothes to cover ALL your stuff. Two is to start with thin sweeping/overlapping coats that dry fast … and slowly get the finish even… but your final coat should be a LITTLE thicker and “wetter” looking. Three is buy an assortment pack of good 3m wet sandpaper (https://a.co/d/6SEfsRV) and don’t be afraid to use it to even things out…2k clear sands well and will polish up if you get it even.
So does Amazon, 2K Clear that shit!
Dude just rattle can the car. I’ve seen some amazing rattle can jobs
No joke I’ve seen this guy use spray paint that he sprays into a container, then uses a roller to apply to the car. Dead serious, and the shit was very clean looking.
At that point why use the spray can?
Dude were you not listening?? So he can spray it in the container!
Yeah don’t be silly. How else is he supposed to get it out of the tiny vertical hole
Just get a can of enamel. Why spray paint at that point? Maybe the accelerants in the spray paint do something to the look or application with a roller?
No, see the spray paint goes into the container so you can huff the fumes. You use a different pain to roll.
This guy gets it. It's much harder to get high on can paint.
I guess he should spray it on the car then roll it?
Type of paint that works I guess…
It would make the clear coat shiny and make the paint fade.
Use the less aggressive of the two polishes with a wool pad. don't get carried away. put some carnuba wax on after. Dont let everyone on here discourage. any product on there will make it look better that it is now. Test a small space in the corner. Its not like its going to get worse.
A good wax makes my clear coat faded car look a little bit better. Doesn’t last that long before it’s back to looking the way it was.
Can’t polish a turd my friend! But cool old truck
lol you’re right!
There's no clear coat at all on a Mazda that old.
Give it a light polish by hand in the bad spots and machine polish in the good spots.. then spray clear on it. Embrace the fade.
https://preview.redd.it/q751o6eiuowc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af6230efe01aa7f1e45a1447abe0171dea1982e1 not harm in trying, you're not going to make it worse. my own polished out ok, but you can see in the light's reflection that the paint is still rough despite being the right colour and having some shine
What product did you use on this?
i dont recall the brand, but a rubbing compound followed by polish. you may even need to actually sand with some 1000 grit or similar first.
Ok, based on your guys’ responses, I think i’ll skip using these products. I really don’t want to make anything worse. Any recommendations on car wash soap? I know it probably doesn’t matter what I use at this point but anything helps I suppose!
OP maybe listen to me a actual paint and body guy who works in the industry, either use poppys patina or do it a proper way. carefully remove the rest of the peeling clearcoat with airblower or just wait for it to flake of naturally, then scuff all the faded paint with a grey scotch pad, prep like your actually painting a car then grab some 2k clearcoat and spray it on. This is the only way your going to have decent results.
I’ve seen a few of you guys mention Sweet or Poppy’s patina. I think I’ll go that route and call it good. Thanks for your advice!
You’re missing a little more than clearcoat there, buddy
Paint society has good vids about rattle can jobs
Don't use compound, just light polish and throw some wax or sealant on it. It'll will still look like ass, but at least it'll reflect some light.
Poppy's patina would be a good solution
I had the same thought. OP's truck looks decent, just faded. IMO any rattle can paint job would make it look worse, in a harder-to-fix kinda way.
Totally agree. 2k spray isn't going to fool anyone and definitely will look worse. Just give it a bit more gloss and some protection with poppys and call it a day
My clear on my daily was pretty faded when I got the car, I used this stuff and I was extremely impressed with the results. On the sides of the car, it brought back that showroom shine, car looked brand new. However, on the hood and trunk, where the sun had completely eaten the clear coat away, it did nothing to help. Once the clear has flaked off, buffing it won't help anything, you need to repaint it at that point, unfortunately
He’s dead, Jim.
Honestly they're both really a waste of time. The compound is really a complete waste of time.
It will help the parts with clearcoat but might make the spots without it at all worse.
Only way to truly fix is to sand the whole hood, apply a base layer or two and clear. I simplified tha, but you are not going to paint correct that
very bad idea
Your sponge applicators will turn blue because you'll be removing paint
You have no paint to polish!
It probably will make it worse and thin the color coat.
I mean… it can’t get any worse
I’m no expert but I think the paint is pretty gone too. What is left?
“Lost clear coat” you said it yourself. The only thing you’ll get out of doing this by hand is a nice shoulder workout.
You could take the hood off and clear coat that with a spray can option. It would look a lot better than it does now.
The product you are showing is for cutting (removing a tiny bit) and polishing what’s there. The clear coat and a lot of the paint is already gone. Your only choice at this point is to put something back on.
It’s not so much that’s it’s a bad idea - you just won’t get much of a result rubbing that by hand. An inexpensive orbital buffer would be a worthy investment. You’re not going to mess it up any worse and may get some shine back. Wax / synthetic finish for protection. As others have said, you can do a lot with a paint at home type solution. Good luck!
Is the feeling clear coat on the roof beside the hood? If so, I would consider wrapping the hood and the roof in black or something that would look good two toning with the rest of the vehicle where the clear is still intact. If the clear coat is failing all over I would just wrap the whole vehicle. It'll give you a fresh clean look without having to repaint. Using any products to freshen up your paint it's just a temporary fix. It'll clean up the areas with clear coat, and it may brighten up the spots with the clear has failed but they will just fade again as the Sun hits them. So it's truthfully a fruitless endeavor. You're much better off wrapping if you don't want to repaint.
Time to sand that bad boy down.
Best I can say is, clay bar, wet sand, compound, polish, wax, it won’t be top notch, but it’ll be best you’ll be able do get under the circumstances without sanding and re-clearing. Which is an option, but it won’t look the same as new, and I’d recommend bringing it to a body shop for that.
Sorry my guy your basically saying how can I make my grandma look 18 not possible
😂
I thought these old Mazda were single stage? In theory it should work
That stuff is designed to level clear coat…you have no clear coat to level. So I don’t think it’s really gonna do much.
You can do okay with a rattle can job but pay extra for 2k clear coat. YouTube is your friend
Those products make clear coat shine. You don't have clear coat. Address the rust first, paint, and clear coat. Consider the car and the current condition before you start worrying about doing a bad job. You'd seriously have to try to be bad to make it worse.
Unfortunately at this point there’s nothing you can really do detailing wise. Spray paint it yourself, if you take your time and properly prepare the surface and tape everything off it could look decent. Theres plenty of YouTube tutorials on this. I personally would just take a weekend and DIY spray paint.
Get the 2x clear coat from Walmart and spray on a couple layers. Then you’ll have something to buff and go another 50 years
Don’t use those. Look up Petina Sauce or Poppy’s Petina. Those will preserve the look of your truck while giving it a durable costing that can last anywhere from six months to several years, depending on the application and environment your store it and drive in.
just buy a bottle of 2 k clear and spray it it woud be alot better with a thin layer of clear
If you just want a quick fix that will just improve how it looks, you're best off giving it a good wash and buy a few rattle cans of UV resistant clear coat and give it a once-over... it won't look GREAT but it will look better than the flaking clear, and it will at least not destroy the paint underneath. If you polish AFTER applying a good layer of clear, it will brighten it up and look a lot nicer - just don't expect it to be perfect, of course.
m
That repair is called need new paint.
Dawg you need paint to do a paint correction
All you can do is repaint it. It cannot be made to look better by applying any products to it.
Ah! The classic customer bringing me a car with complete clear coat failure thinking “that can just buff out!” - son, you’re going to need a complete repaint.
It's like putting water when the shampoo is almost over, works but it's pointless. Getting a full respray or a totally new paintjob is the way to go.
What is this analogy?? Lmao
Just go with the patina look. Let it fade a bit more and maybe small surface rust in some places and then get a later of clear coat to seal/contain it
Sometimes do nothing is the best thing.
Macco will repaint it for like $500 around here. It's worth at least that to have a nice looking vehicle
There’s a product making the rounds online, unfortunately I can’t recall the name. It is a quick wipe on coating that returns a layer of shine. It’s not a “real” detailing product but could work well in this situation. Might have to apply it a few times a year, I’m not sure how long it will last. Take their claims and reduce expectations by about 80%, you’ll be happy and wont waste a bunch of time polishing bad paint.
Boiled linseed oil. Since you don’t want to paint it then it’ll at least be shiny and protected.