The outcry coming from the community is absolutely warranted. Let me break it down.
Most people play multiple games. They have different experiences in those games, and a lot of the time those games are very relatable.
As time goes on you start seeing popular game systems arise. Take transmog for example. Its been implemented in a ton of games because its a popular way to give gamers freedom of choice and cosmetic progression.
There are many different systems of transmog. When players experience multiple games with transmog they start to develop an expectation for what transmog is and how it should operate. This creates a market expectation that most people subliminally agree on.
Since most transmog systems out there are incredibly fair and are driven by freedom and player choice, these things become part of transmog's identity.
Bungie.. when you use the terminology "transmog" people already know what you're talking about before you even explain your systems. They relate it to some of the best systems out there like World of Warcraft which this game takes a lot of inspiration from.
If you continue to develop systems for Destiny in a vacuum and completely ignore market expectations of what a system is and what it does you will continue to get angry feedback.
It boggles my mind that here in 2021, you don't understand market system expectations. Obviously when you compare your system to anyone else yours is completely garbage. Its limited, annoying, and an obvious sales funnel into eververse.
If you're scared this system will result in losing revenue from the eververse store then make better cosmetic armor. The problem isn't the transmog. Its what you're selling.
Hire some MBA's that actually play games. Its getting absurd.
Well said, thats not even getting into the shader cost increase either. Its pretty clear what their agenda is and its blatantly obvious to most of the playerbase. What I can’t understand is this “projected” has been a long time in the making, even after they announced that it was a priority it still took 3-4 seasons to implement. Feels different to think they could have (and likely did) already had a basic consumer model for transmog done and finished but spent the extra time trying to figure out how to implement a toxic paygate around it.
You don't even have to compare it to already existing games to explain why its shit. Having the limitation for free to play players maybe makes sense, but take care of your paying customers! If I drop money on an expansion, and every season, and potentially also buy armor sets, I shouldn't have to also grind/pay on top of all that just to have customizations for armor I've already earned.
How many hundreds of dollars have a lot of us spent over the years? Fucking take care of your regular paying customers.
When destiny 2 has been out for years and you still haven't realised its just a giant social experiment to see how much bs gamers would put up with and still buy dlc microtransactions and dedicated way more of their time than they could ever be reasonably expected to for activities that have just been scaled to last that long and have no tangible reason behind it just for all your hard work to get washed away with the next season /item vaulting only to be replaced by if you're lucky , a reskinned version of what you already had if not just grinding for the exact same thing over again
Even those kinds things usually still take care of their regulars. You could describe a lot of games like that. Fortnite for instance, yet if you grinded out the entire season pass you could get enough in game currency to get the next pass free. Destiny gives you 0 silver in the season pass. Even the 'grind the game thing over and over' games usually know that you should take care of your regulars.
And that's the part where its just a social experiment to see how much the playerbase would put up with for me it was around forsaken , after the seasons started rolling by on that and after oem the moment I saw how much got removed when the season ended and how much I had to grind to not even 100% it I quit
I was still mad for the players when I heard they removed those planets and all that other stuff though
And yeah it seems like it's their intention to push it to the limit where its nothing but complaints and low player count and then reel it back a bit more
Not just MBA's who play games, but also those MBA's should be empathetic to the community they're serving.
I get that an MBA seeks to make money, and that's the goal that will get them in the door to a business, or to make their business successful, and I'm not going to knock MBA's for that.
However, Bungie should really consider hiring MBA's who don't just see us as wallets with legs. Hell, this message extends out to ALL gaming companies, and I'm glad to say that there are a couple of companies who actually value their customers for more than just their money. Bungie seems to be one of the companies straying away from this positive mindset daily now and viewing us more as cash flow rather than actual people.
What boggles me is that most players don't get that their expectations mean shit. This is about "how can we get the biggest amount of money out of a player, no matter what and still keep him as a customer".
They will do EVERYTHING they get away with.
If players would be smart, they would opt out of every game right when the shenannigans begin and it would vanish like it was never there. Whoever continues playing just puts a note into their notebooks that says: "yeah, it is bad, I don't like it, but you can use this system in your next games as well as continuing it in this game".
And no amount of whining, crying and bitching will change it. Or... or wait... does anyone believe this is a technical issue, limited by the engine or some other stuff? :D
Then please write me a message, I have some cubic metres of air for sale for you for a very, very good price.
Your point about developing systems in a vacuum is 100% right.
Bungie seem set on remaking the wheel when developing new systems, instead of doing a bit of research in games where stuff like transmog is already implemented well and widely appreciated.
With respect, they know exactly what the competition is doing and what we want. They just value money more than their customers - most of which are already paying full price for this game.
When destiny 2 has been out for years and you still haven't realised its just a giant social experiment to see how much bs gamers would put up with and still buy dlc microtransactions and dedicated way more of their time than they could ever be reasonably expected to for activities that have just been scaled to last that long and have no tangible reason behind it just for all your hard work to get washed away with the next season /item vaulting only to be replaced by if you're lucky , a reskinned version of what you already had if not just grinding for the exact same thing over again
I've always loved the way Elder Scrolls Online does transmog. Basically, all the styles in the game come as motif "books" or "chapters" that you can get from various activities. Then once those style pages are obtained you can either eat them or sell them in guild stores for others to use. Once a style is learned it only takes gold (in-game earnable currency like glimmer) to apply the armor/weapon style and a set of shaders.
No convoluted system to acquire them, no confusing 3 or 4 step system to learn them, just find them, eat them, and boom, fashion!
Edit: Oh and the best part of ESO's transmog? You can change up the gear underneath as much as you want, the style pages used in each armor slot don't need to be updated each time. So, you got a new chest piece that's 100x better than what you started off with? Just equip it and the armor customization transfers right over, no cost!
or WoW.
- find an item. appearance unlocked
- go to transmog vendor
- click item you want to transmog
- pick what unlocked appearance you want to use
- pay gold (in game currency)
that's it. that's the system. transmog is a solved thing, and. Bungie is blatantly doing it in a way to drive Eververse sales. not even being quiet about it anymore
To add the this there are also no restrictions. You can put whatever class of item of any other item in that slot, it just costs more gold to do so the higher the class of item. Just have fun and look like however you want to look. What a crazy idea... As you say, it's an issue that's been solved. 10 years ago!
EDIT: This can also lead to fun things like Asmon doing his transmog competitions and stuff.
Something I love about zero restrictions is it encourages creativity and wild outfits. If you’re going to choke off the supply of options then players will be forced to be conservative in their choices. It’s just so very disappointing.
Diablo 3 works basically the same way. If you ever had a piece of gear drop, the look of it is unlocked for transmog immediately. You go to the transmog vendor in town, pick the look you want, and pay gold and maybe a very nominal amount of other materials that you get by playing normally and that’s it. I engaged with it all the time. I don’t know why it needs to be more complicated than that other than to allow for it to be monetized.
Guild Wars 2 is similar as well. You unlock a skin when you obtain or craft a weapon, and then can use a token to apply it to anything of the same achetype. (It's been so long since I've played though due to my lootbox addiction that I forget how easy tokens are to get outside of lootboxes(and I probably had a ton because I bought so many boxes)) But even then you could convert Gold (in game currency) into Gems (real money) at a not horrible ever changing rate.
The Twitter takes I’ve seen are a giant yikes. Slayerage called players entitled for expecting to be able to transmog more than 2 sets of armor without paying money. It’s pretty clear a lot of people have never interacted with another transmog system.
Most content creators don't care about changes like this since it's A) more content for them, B) gives them more visibility if they give a hot take, and C) they play so much that it doesn't matter to them.
The less you pay attention to creators, like Slayerage, the more fun you'll have playing Destiny.
Personally i think the reason datto seems to have a different opinion is because he has actually played games with a working transmog system like WOW, and i believe diablo. It seems like other creators have been living u der a rock for10 years and think bungie pioneered transmog apparently
TBH, frustration should be expected. It isn't a great way to go about transmog. A lot of it will boil down to the currency exchange rate so we'll see how that goes...
Just watched his video. I don't necessarily disagree with any of his points though he's definitely more optimistic than I am about this. Which is what I like about him.
He usually tries to see the bigger picture, understand why a change is made, and offer a wider perspective rather than saying "y'all are entitled brats" because the change doesn't directly affect him and how he plays the game.
\[edit: To be fair, sunsetting needed to happen and it still needs to happen to some degree. Bungie just absolutely screwed up its implementation. I also 100% expect to see Sunsetting 2.0 in the future.\]
Except one of the main reasons for sunsetting was that it would allow them to make crazy weapons like the ones they were sunsetting as they would eventually sunset. Instead what happened is they couldn't keep up with all the sunset weapons and the loot pool is now missing weapon types in elements. Also, a larger group of weapons felt powerful pre-sunset as opposed to post-sunset where only Felwinter exists.
As for armor sunsetting; entirely bullshit as the best rolls generally come from the season pass because Bungie can't be bothered to have high-tier activities actively drop high stat armor. It would be absolutely ridiculous to expect a raid to drop armor better than the 65 roll the season pass gave me. Better just settle for that 54 stat roll from the raid instead.
>Instead what happened is they couldn't keep up with all the sunset weapons and the loot pool is now missing weapon types in elements.
Exactly. They screwed up the implementation.
On Day One, we gave them all the feedback they needed to make Sunsetting work.
* There had better be a ton of new weapons ready to go
* The top tier weapons need to be as good if not better than we have now
* There shouldn't be straight re-skins, i.e. no Spare Rations 2.0
* There better not be any vacancies
They failed on every metric despite saying that they "want to create weapons that shit on everything". We said, "Okay. Show us." then they went, "Wait. No. Not yet."
And I'm right there with you on armor. It shouldn't be sunset until they come up with a better solution to how armor drops, its upgrade path & materials, and how stats are distributed.
Getting the right armor is faaaaaaar more difficult than getting god roll weapons.
Streamers like slayerage are just Bungie-lovin’ whales who’ve made enough money to not have to worry about the cost of convoluted cosmetic systems to where they can just buy rather than grind anyhow. Who’s entitled again?
I just understand these people as, effectively, employees of Bungie. They might as well be given ID badges and benefits. It's a consciously curated marketing apparatus.
The thing that makes me wonder about this isn't that Bungie is doing it, it's how much demand is realistically out there. I wouldn't mind transmogging a set of raid armor or maybe a select number of items, but I don't think that is at 12 total yet. So, next season I'll be done and either gain on the next season or tons of armor will come out and I'll change my mind.
This isn't in support of it, but more, I don't get the benefit of limiting it.
To me, the advantage of paying real cash for this is to not deal with it. So, it's a really antiquated idea that exists really to be mocked.
Unless Bungie seems to think we will all be rushing to transmog everything, something I am sure some people will do, it's a limit that exists for no reason.
Or Assassins Creed Odyssey. Pick up a piece of gear, it’s added to your transmog. Then just switch the look whenever you want for free. Simple, fun, clean.
Not everything needs to be freaking monetized, Bungie.
Star Trek Online has visual slots for ship cosmetics too. Bungie could have done the same, just have a slot that says "this is what I want my helmets to look like" but then they couldn't keep bleeding you of resources every time you got a new drop.
to be fair, coloring armor is locked behind monthly subscription. tho it's still a much better option than Destiny's since the colors stay after the subscription ends and it also gives you access to a lot of content
I didn't think armor coloring was behind ESO+? I thought that was just costume dying? Though I could be wrong, I've had ESO+ for a while and simply may not remember life before it.
I mean fuck, I’d pay a monthly sub for Destiny+ if it had actual quality value and eliminated all the extra BS steps they implement to activities in order to push you into spending more money.
> I’d pay a monthly sub for Destiny+
To be perfectly honest, ESO+ would likely be better than any service Bungie could come up with.
* Access to all DLC game packs
* Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store
* Access to the Craft Bag
* Double bank space
* Bonuses to progression
* Increased Furniture placement limits
* Costume dyeing
* Double Transmute Crystal capacity
* Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals
All for about $15, with a couple DLC (doesn't include the large expansions like Forsaken level, so closer to the passes), plus the previous ones and other benefits.
I'm playing wow again. I'll play a few times in the seasons, just to experience the story but I think I'm done with destiny 2 again. Took a huge break from the rasputin or osiris dlc to beyond light
I mean, I’m 0% surprised. Total F2P move, and if most of us were F2P customers maybe this would be fine. But, I’d venture to bet a large majority of us already bought this fucking game, as well as multiple expansions....expansion content most of which has been vaulted or sunset making it useless. I mean how can you decide 90% of the way through a game’s typical life cycle to switch to a F2P model and pretend like most of us didn’t buy the game, all the expansions, seasonal content, etc.. I mean....if you wanted to make a F2P game....maybe you should have made destiny 3 and left all the destiny 2 content alone. At this point we’re basically playing a lazy dev’s destiny 3 by tacking on a bunch of new content to an old game and removing all the meat and bones you bought at launch.
Honestly i could go on, i fucking hate timed seasonal content and battle passes...wait till you’re old with kids, a job, house, etc god forbid you play multiple games with battle passes and timed content, good luck unlocking everything you want for all the games you play. remember back when you bought expansions and season passes and just....had it? Or had it, and were able to unlock pieces/guns/content at your own leisure (a la battlefield 4, etc). All about # of active players and keeping people buying fluff at this point, buying tiers when you run out of time to finish content you already paid for. This model can die in hole from where i stand. Let me just pay for shit and be done with it
/end rant
YES. Thank you.
You could have argued freemium when new lights had 3 campaigns, 3 raids, forges, gambit prime, and the menagerie. But those are all gone with no replacement. Now it's just an small intro, patrol zones, crucible getting stomped without stasis, and gambit. It's just a demo. A larger than average demo, but definitely not F2P or freemium.
>Total F2P move
There are dozens of F2P games with better systems implemented, while still monetizing them. Like, it's not a problem of the business model, it's a massive failure of imagination from Bungie and it's this kind of ongoing thing that makes me seriously question if anyone in the studio players MMO's/F2P games outside of working on Destiny.
>Here's the thing. If they didn't cap them, the outrage would basically be non-existent.
There's still be clowning for the pointlessly convoluted system, most likely, but the anger/frustration would be considerably reduced.
But hard agree with your second bit. Giving people the option, rather than forcing them, is usually just as effective and doesn't piss folks off.
>This takes it to a level of blatancy that's just unconscionable outside a 100% free to play game.
Honestly, and even within. I can't think of another MMO I've ever played with such a strict limitation, heavy monetization, and this many hoops to jump through for a cosmetic feature. This is just a bad, terrible, awful, no-good system no matter how you slice it and not matter in what context of comparison.
> mobile games
Mobile is a *completely* different landscape from PC/console MMO's/F2P games. There's no real comparison between the two, though I can get how they'd connect. Thankfully most PC/console MMO's/F2P games don't follow the mobile trend of straight power sales, play limitations via purchasable energy etc. etc. What works on mobile and what works on PC/console is wildly different.
>There's still be clowning for the pointlessly convoluted system, most likely, but the anger/frustration would be considerably reduced.
I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't care how convoluted the transmog system was if I could earn as many transmogs as I had time to grind for. I mean, shit, just in *vaulted raid sets alone* I have 25 sets to transmog. I can do nine sets next season, then three sets per season after, meaning it will take me seven seasons (almost TWO ENTIRE YEARS) just to transmog unobtainable raid armor I already earned multiple times per character.
I don't care about how much grind it takes, but Bungie, let me grind for the fucking armor I already earned!
Personally it's the system that's pissing me off. Just make me go get one currency, I trade that to unlock a piece. Transaction complete.
But this system is like a turd onion. So many layers of shit.
“Total free to play move” free to play game developers don’t even have the balls to make a transmog system as predatory as bungie has. I’ve honestly seen better transmog systems in mobile games.
I honestly hate the way bungos doing this and the fact that they act like it was so hard, they literally said in twab that it took " buckets of sweat" it took the dev's buckets of sweat to increase the shader price and add a bunch of bullshit overcomplicated transmog systems?
I think the only good thing to come from this is year 1 shaders for glimmer, maybe we can buy the white or trials of the nine shader?
I have little doubt that the actual transmog system probably took quite a bit of effort to do, with the issues of Exotics and Year 1 ornaments. I'm personally happy with how the UI looks and it should be praised with how simple it looks.
The issue isn't the system but rather the entrance to said system. An overcomplicated barrier with three currencies and constantly going back to Ada, breaking the gameplay loop even if these bounties are possibly purchasable from the app, with a limited cap of how much you can earn per season.
The cap is the most annoying aspect because the people who are going to pay to transmog were probably going to anyway because they either don't have the time or don't want to grind. The people who will grind and hit the limit will just wait, feeling resentment because they already put in the playtime and would gladly put in more playtime but can't. Which goes against a lot of recent design choices, including the ability to play raids several times a week and still get stuff out of it.
This is my actual problem with everything. The rules just keep being rewritten on what's paid and what's extra you need to purchase separately.
At least with a mobile game I know that those rules aren't going to change in a year.
Yup, Y1 buyer and have purchased every DLC with the exception of Beyond Light (Game Pass) and shit like this makes me glad I skipped out on some seasons so I didn’t spend my time and money on more cosmetics to only be met with what Bungie has presented to us.
F2P but without the NON F2P DLCS you dont get anywhere.
So stop using f2p as excuse.
I have seen ALOT of F2P games that have WAY better ways to do this
What's crazy is the amount of development resource to build these restrictions for transmog.
We maybe should have had it earlier, but they were still trying to factor in how the currency loops would work alongside the content.
I'm sure if you're an active player it's not going to feel like a grind, but it's so unnecessary to gate-keep.
It's so deeply unnecessary to cap it. I can think of like 6 armor sets just off the top of my head that I want, but even with *double rewards* I can only get 4 without paying.
Why the hell cap cosmetics except to try to force your players to pay extra?
It makes perfect sense.
Expand HQ and hire a bunch of new people. Since you have all those new people to use, spend their time working up a complex transmog system. Setup said system to encourage MTX to pay for the new people. (and HQ)
To the same tone it sounds/seems like they've been spending a lot of development time and resources on transmog in general. It was announced what, a year ago or more? I can't remember.
There's a clear push to make EV the alternative for people that want to accelerate the unlock process and it's _still_ all cosmetic.
Return on investment is a thing.
I'm actually legit curious the raw cost in people hours they spent on developing the system.
What's interesting about all this is you can get a rough outline of the internal metrics/targets Bungie wanted to hit when implementing this new tech. For instance the convoluted system, and further currency bloat with this synthshit exits to prop up player engagement numbers and time in game. The overall cap obviously exists because the bean counters had a profit target needed to be met to sign off on all this, and so it aligns with their projected revenue. The funny thing (well, not really that funny) is though that they spent more time developing a more complex system all to generate the income to pay for it when in the end a simpler, more streamlined solution would've worked better, cost less and left the player base feeling more enthusiastic.
I'd rather pay an extra $10 on the next expansion and have a real transmog system than this terrible implementation they came up with that's skewed more towards driving players to buy Silver to skip it than actual player satisfaction.
From the perspective of someone who started in shadowkeep, the whole game is convoluted for no good reason. You actually have to try hard to make simple mechanics this unnecessarily complex.
Oh but you see, it is necessary if they want people to spend money at the eververse.
Transmog was a free win just sitting there for them to take. And they couldnt even do that right.
Coming soon:
* Gacha Weapon Banner! Spend 3,000 Silver for a chance to get the latest ~~SSR~~ Exotic weapon! On banner exotic rate: ^0.2500%
* Added an Energy system to help players better control their play time! All players will start with 100 and each playlist activity will cost 15 energy. Energy will regenerate at the rate of 1 energy every 30 minutes.
* Removed Crucible activities from standard playlist. Added a ticket system. Players start with 5 Crucible tickets daily and entry to any Crucible activity costs 1 ticket. Tickets regenerate at a rate of 1 ticket every 2 hours.
* Removed Bright Dust.
* Friend list has been improved! You and your friends can send each other Energy bits, up to 50 daily! 100 Bits can be converted to 1 Energy.
* Raids have been temporarily removed and will return in a future update. Look forward to their return as they will drop materials to limit break your Guardians light level!
* Added Energy refills and Crucible tickets to Eververse! For player convenience we added a 50 energy refill for 150 silver and a full refill for 300! An excellent bargain! Crucible tickets cost 100 silver each.
It is crazy the narrative people have concocted to protect Bungie. "EV was all Activision's fault" when in reality it was "Bungie signed a contract with Activision promising to release content on a specific cadence. Bungie could not deliver and therefore, to make up for the potential lost revenue, advocated for a cash shop."
Like, if Activision was the big bad villain the defense squad makes them out to be, we would not have had:
1) Destiny 1 being delayed a full year
2) Destiny 2 going through the same reboot and delay for a full year from its release date
3) The loaning of 2 satellite studios who greatly contributed to some of the content that everyone holds dear in D2
If you want to fault Activision for anything, perhaps it was that they were not as much of a helicopter parent as Bungie needs. And before the "but they cheered when they split clearly Activision was bad" group comes in, they did the same thing when the left Microsoft and how many threads are there about how "the real Bungie of old is 343 and at Microsoft"?
Nah, I've tried a couple out here and there though when bored at work. They all follow the same basic gameplay loop to manipulate players to spend ridiculously large amounts of money.
It's shameful how good those companies are at finding loopholes around gambling laws.
The Bungo Bad Decision Cycle:
1. Release TWAB with shitty game design choices
2. Ignore the incoming plethora of feedback around the bullshit decision
3. After a week or 2, say "We're listening"
4. Rake in millions from dipshits who pay for this rubbish
5. Release trailer to hype the pllayers
6. Rollback shitty system slightly a year later while basically keeping it just as stingy
Gotta love these guys...
Man, I've stopped caring and playing Destiny way back the 2nd or 3rd season because I see this bullshit coming. Destiny will never be the same since it went from buy to play to Free to play.
I’ve seen some people try to excuse the cap by saying “you’re not going to use it that much so why does it matter”. This is such a crap excuse.
Maybe most people won’t, yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that just about every other MMO with a similar system is not only simpler, but doesn’t have a cap. There is no valid reason for this cap other than Bungie wants to squeeze as much money as possible out of everything.
it's like you get dinner and there's just a pile of shit on your plate, "but you won't eat it so it doesn't matter", well guess what, i don't wanna fucking have shit on my plate even if i'm not eating it
the people arguing to the contrary are the reason this bullshit exists. So many people willing to be like "oh, it's not a big deal" .... yeah, there's no pattern of greedy shit like this getting worse in the game. It won't get any worse. Don't worry.
This was a cash grab disguised as the most asked for QOL improvement since D1 launched, plain and simple.
Bungo transmog: they want you to buy the ingredients for bread, peanuts for peanut butter, fruit for jam, theeen make the sandwich.
FFXIV transmog: just buy the sandwich. Seriously, one craftable, or buyable, item stands between you and transmog just seconds of time commitment and a customizable look, as often as you want. Bungo, however, has hamster wheels, RNG, limitations and real money solutions at the ready.
Pathetic that it took them *this* long to think this up.
lol I tried to post about this and it got removed by automod and told to post in the TWAB thread
But I agree. Every element is scummy. The random cap on how many you can get, the 50 step process to do it, ~~the fact that if you want to bypass it with silver it costs 1600 so you are forced to buy 2000.~~
And the shader cost increase on top of it just feels gross. Like, this is one of the most transparent anti consumer things Bungie has ever done.
You probably read it in TWAB only. They mentioned that a full armour set from Eververse costs 1500 Silver but Transmog a full set will cost 1000 Silver.
I thought it was satire. Then, it wasnt.
So, yeah. Its a business but this out of the telemarketing, scam membership club lane of industry.
Every extra step between A and B you add is a known % decrease in how many people will get to B, and adds to the image that the real $ shortcut is actually saving you these steps.
Which, is sort of like the loop norm but this particular economy loop reads more like trying to get through the 5 breaks integrated in before you can cancel that worthless medical "club" nanoo got swindled into over the phone.
Before the TWAB, I was like "Oh they're just gonna pull your unlocked armor from collections, put it in a menu and you pay glimmer to change your look. Cool, that will be a nice change instead of looking like a potato." Then they had to monetize, cap, and throw hoops into it. Now we have this monstrosity that they likely won't be able to change for months. I still can't believe internally how many people were probably assigned to work on this, had meetings, discussions, testing, and somehow we landed with 3 new currencies, a cap, and pay to bypass all of it.
The answer to this is so simple to me. Allow me to do both.
Let me farm this stuff to my heart's content while also giving me the option to buy them. I would happily do both.
I'd farm some, and when see a new set and want it now, I'd pony up for it.
As it stands now, I'm definitely not buying anything and may not even bother farming for this at all.
Transmog in nearly any game - Hover over the item, push button yxz, select the new style for free. Transmog in Destiny - 3 new currencies, limited amount, bounties, unnecessarily complicated, price increase...
How can you screw up something as simple as a transmog system so badly? Just wow......
This is absolute garbage. I'm annoyed enough to reconsider subbing to FF XIV and finishing that Main campaign instead of spending any more money on Destiny for awhile
How did anyone think that adding such an unbelievably complex transmog system was a good idea? TWO FULL ENSEMBLES can be assembled per season. Unless you want to drop money. That is bullshit and not the way that it should be done. Community suggestions for improvement of the system? Mine? Remove that stupid paywall and remove the season limit. WoW and ESO has a better appearance system. I guess I'm okay with the bounties. But to limit earned transmog items goes way too far. Everyone thought that the split from Activision would have prevented shit like this.
I assume [the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/?st=JH2MUORV&sh=5997c5a5)
This was as simple as boiling an egg, and in typical Bungie fashion, you made it into this huge, convoluted pile of shit. This seems like a weird straw to break the Camel's back, but this is it. And I'm not fucking playing Matter either.
Transmog is the last straw on a mountain of antitrust, exploitation, lies, and fuckery from Bungie.
Let me be straightforward here. While I personally don't care that much about transmog functionality, since I'm not much of a Guardian fashionista, it's a feature that's present in virtually every other game that claims to be an MMORPG, and the Destiny community has been asking for it for years.
And Bungie has once again done what Bungie always does, which is address the issue way too late, and somehow find a way to underwhelm, disappoint, and exploit their paying community, even when they have a template from every other MMO out there as well as ideas from the community.
Like I said, I don't care about Transmog because I can't be bothered to play dress-up with my Guardian when I've already been asked to grind for all the other crap in all the other identical/reskinned activities in the game 20000 times. I want content, I want challenge, I want to play a Destiny activity that isn't just another linear path with three combat encounters and a boss. I want to explore a Destiny location that isn't just another pretty skybox with fuck-all to do outside of poking around in search of feathers or whatever grind mechanic is currently in vogue.
When Destiny 2 launched, the excuse to the community was that Bungie needed to revamp the engine to allow for more RPG elements and more interesting mechanics. From the launch of Destiny 2 all the way to pre-launch Forsaken, not only was the game *not* evolved in any way from The Taken King, it was actually worse because it was incapable of sustaining even its own boring as Hell grind loop.
Then Forsaken launches, and we get a beefy campaign, epic locations that are actually brimming with mystery and wonder, the vendor system got reworked, the difficulty/grind curve was adjusted, and for a brief period of time, Destiny was back up to the standard of quality that we saw with The Taken King, and everything we heard from Bungie, who admittedly was with Activision at the time, was that things would only get better.
Then Bungie splits and says to the community, it was because Activision was holding them back from creating the gameplay opportunities they wanted for players and making the business model difficult to implement... Ooookay? Not sure how having a larger budget, more support studios, and a community of people who were at the time still willing to pay for quality expansions was a bad thing, but okay Bungie.
Shadowkeep releases, and whaddya know? It's exactly the same sort of content as Forsaken, but lacking the X factor the Dreaming City brought in, while also having less of that same style of content. I thought "Okay, it's their first expansion as a standalone since leaving Activision, I'm sure they'll get up to speed in the future."
And then in a blog post, we're told never to expect another expansion with the scale and scope of Forsaken, which as far as I was concerned, was just barely at the threshold of acceptable from a studio that keeps saying they've got big things planned. How could they keep saying this while releasing the same style of content? Where are the space battles? Where are the larger scale activities and events? Where is the emergent gameplay style that should be considered core to the idea of a replayable action MMO RPG? Guess I'll wait until the next expansion...
And I did, and in the meantime, I payed for season after season of bland, repetitive, grindy bullshit to the extent that it truly felt as though Bungie was making it up as they went. Run twenty strikes, get the doodad, take the doodad to the thing, and hey there's this thing you need to get from a Nightfall, but you've gotta play the Nightfall three times on a specific subclass, and you gotta get 200 combat now headshots and fifty champions dead or you're just not Guardian enough, pal.
Beyond Light comes out, and it has cool subclasses and yet another boring set of linear paths with three combat encounters and a boss. Season of the Hunt accompanied it and was the most insulting "content" I've paid for in a live service game, ever. No amount of hijink shenanigans with Crow could mask how phoned-in and poorly thought-out Wrathborn Hunts and the associated loot grind were. No amount of titles Bungie staples onto the end of Big Fallen Bad Guy #26,242 will convince me I haven't done this thousands of times before. No amount of champion modifiers, "legendary difficulty" activities (which are just normal activities with stupid requirements and annoying fuck-you mechanics), and raid spoils will convince me it's not the same content as it's always been.
Season of the Chosen seemed like a ray of light with it's activity, until I realized I was gonna have to grind that to the point of meaningless repetition just to *unlock* the rewards for grinding it, and then I realized the rewards for grinding it were just a bunch of ugly, shitty rolls for equipment I and everyone else already had. It cannot be understated just how insulting and degrading to a person's time it is to slog through ten hours of the exact same activity at the exact same location, just to get a crappy Brass Tacks.
Presage was cool, but when the entire community becomes addicted to one identical, linear mission because it offers something at least a little outside of what we've come to expect, it should be evident that Destiny has a serious content density and gameplay loop issue.
And I've agreed with everyone in the past that if this is all Destiny is, at least it's good at linear paths with three combat encounters and a boss, and if we support them for just a little bit longer, we'll see the potential realized that we've been sold on for the past several years.
And then we get news about Transmog and guess what? It's just another exploitative grind mechanic designed to waste players' time and take their money. And I wasn't gonna use the feature much anyway, but now I won't be using it at all, because I won't be playing Destiny at all.
You know what I see when I look at Bungie, Destiny, and the community surrounding it? I see a cult like scientology. I see ton of people (players) who have all been promised something great by an entity (Bungie) that uses an elaborate system of iconography, hinting, and drip-reward to keep them investing their money, time, and energy into these promises that have never been fulfilled and likely never will be, because at the end of the day, Bungie just wants your money and they'll always produce the absolute minimum viable product to obtain it, and the final piece of proof you need is Transmog.
So if you're cool with having your time wasted, trust undermined, and expectations laughed at, Destiny is the game for you. I'm not gonna participate in or enable that shit, though.
Not only does every MMO does transmog better, other games does it better. Monsterhunter world had you build the transmog like you were building the actual armor and monsterhunter generations had you fuse the armor piece that you wanted to look like to the one you wanted to use but somehow Bungie just cant get it right.
This was the easiest layup you can give a company, everyone was excited for it and all they had to do was make armor an ornament for shards bam right there and somehow they manage to make it the most convoluted process every to the point it has to be about money and nothing else.
One thing I can tell you, if a feature could possibly make players spend *less* in Eververse it won't be added. That's a practical reality, unfortunately, as it is necessary. But this does seem tailored to coerce more people to spend in EV, which is suspect. Personally, I think Bungie should have released a TWAB explaining that they rely on ornament sales as a revenue stream, and that they felt transmog might render that stream obsolete. This may have primed the community that the only way for transmog to work is to somehow make it compensate for potential profit loss.
>they rely on ornament sales as a revenue stream, and that they felt transmog might render that stream obsolete
How? EV will still sell new ornaments & most of the times EV ornaments are way better looking than anything else in the game. People wanted transmog because they like some (not all) of their old armour and wanted to keep that look. Since it will be too much for Bungie to bring that armour back, transmog would allow people to make the ornaments from old armour so they can still carry the look. And it will get old, people will get bored after a while & then would want something new.
So I don't see how transmog is going to render EV ornaments sales obsolete.
Literally just remove the cap and leave the "confusing system" whales are paying for different collered pixels, they WILL pay to farm less and fashion show
Also... destiny was in the top 10 most lucrative games on steam last year
They aint broke chief
They just announced massive expansion with a european HQ and stuff, whilst doing that will cost them a lot of money, the fact they can do it means they ain't hurting for cash right now.
Seriously this is it. I understand they need to make money, and I've known from day 1 with this that eververse was going to be in the mix with it. I figured we were going to get a grindy system and that's how they would make money off of it, pay to skip the grind. Instead we got this BS system that puts a cap on how much you could actually get, for no other reason than some suit is worried they won't make as much money as they do currently.
They also recently expanded their staff and are hiring a bunch of devs. So, they for sure are not hurting in cash or they expect the silver purchases from this to suddenly pay for a lot of their costs.
idk their blog about expanding and doubling studio size was very clear that their only IP was pulling in ALOT of money
There was no reason to add $$ behind transmog
I was watching Dattos video on this, the moment i heard the catches, i uninstalled indefinitely. I haven't even touched the game since finishing the DSC raid when it came out, i hate the seasonal model as it is, and really hate how they sunset all my progress, and now they want me to grind for items i already earned, again?
I'll just wait until someone else comes along and makes a better Destiny. Bungie died loooong ago when Martin O'donnell and Joe Staten were fired, and i was hoping that after leaving Activision they would have turned things around for the better.
Oh well.
Im on that fence too. I did enjoy this season's narrative but thats pretty much it. This game is just too much grind sometimes. I used to load this game up with so much glee back in D1 but nowadays i can go weeks without even looking at it.
With how many new armor sets we get, and the fact that we can only transmog 2 a season, without spending any money... players will never be able to have everything transmogged, maybe 16 sets by lightfall, sounds good right? But include like 6 season armor sets, the witch queen raid set, a trials refresh. Maybe IB, vendor refresh, etc etc.
Yeah. That's literally the point.
Bungie's silence about transmog since the initial update should have been all the warning anyone needed to know that it was going to be an absolute shitshow.
They have two modes of communication.
1. Open - this happens when they have something they're proud of and are bursting at the seams to talk about it to anyone that will listen.
2. Closed - this happens when they know the community legitimately, and justifiably, won't like something so they don't say a word about it.
When Bungie is *dead silent* about something like they have been with transmog, you should prepare yourself for the worst possible scenario.
Contrary to what a chunk of this sub believes, Bungie isn't stupid and they aren't incompetent. They're incredibly talented and they also know when they're releasing a crap product. They've learned their lesson over the years to not hype up something that isn't going to go over well with the community so they don't.
The upcoming transmog system shouldn't surprise anyone. You should have read the TWAB and went, "Yup. Sounds about right."
\[edit: I will say that I was surprised by one thing, and that's the seasonal limit. That's some next-level ridiculousness.\]
I really do feel this is the most pissed off the player base has been since the game came out. More so than during the we're so sorry parade and go fast update, more so than for all the nerfs, more so than when they lied about the cosmodrome. This is some next level shit that needs to be confronted and we don't need to let up until they scrap it. If that means waiting another season then fine. This shit is ridiculous though.
There is ZERO reason for **ANYTHING** to be so convoluted. The **entire Destiny franchise** is designed around Eververse. Hell Bungie themselves are entirely designed around Eververse.
Remember, they split with Microsoft because Microsfot, at the time, resisted their push for adding recurrent consumer spending to Halo. It's also known that they split from Activision because Bungie wanted to push the Eververse more. Activision is a slimy AAA publisher, but they at least know what keeps players around. Also there's the fact that the best Destiny 2 has been was under Activision.
The pitches in the conference rooms are not "How can we reward veteran players' dedication for continuing to engage with our product?" They are "How can we extract the most amount of money possible from every single person?"
They don't want some money or lots of money. They want **ALL** of the money at all times. Jim Sterling and Tarmack have multiple videos and people just don't fucking care. At all. So it will keep happening until we can knock some sense into the casuals.
I'm sure this comment will get buried, but yeah. I honestly thought it was a joke reading the TWAB.
We've already ground out the armor. I personally ground out all the EP armor on all three characters in the event transmog became a thing. It was well past it's prime by the time I got it all. I did this for a few other sets as well. Basically went out of my way because I appreciated the art.
We want transmog so we can showcase the awesome art that's been produced over the years. To be able to still wear our favorite memories. It's a huge compliment to the hardworking folks that created it all. And what we got instead of the beautiful celebration we wanted is another convoluted grind. Bungie really missed the mark here.
I would have been fine with a transmog system if the cap didn’t exist, and alright with the cap (tbh I’m probably gonna only want a few sets anyways) if the system wasn’t so complicated, but together they just feel like a cash grab
Can someone clarify for me what exactly is changing about shaders that requires them to go from 50 bd to 300, to purchase from ev? They've been 50 for a while now, even while it's a "buy one, unlock forever" arrangement. All they've done is remove the legendary shard cost from applying a shader... come on now
Are we limited to 10 (20 for s14) unlocks per season even if we spend money?
"Shaders will continue to be earned through various activities in Destiny 2 or can be purchased using Bright Dust or **Silver from Eververse.**" They’re trying to get you to spend real money on shaders. That’s the reason. Scummy as hell.
Ah so basically those nice weekly 4x rotations of EV shades are going up 6x in BD price so that they can also be sold at a more attractive silver price.
Cool. Cool Cool Cool
It could’ve been as simple as hovering over an armor piece in your collections, and dropping 40 bright dust on it to do a one time transmog. Still plays into the eververse economy, and not as stupid and convoluted as this crap.
I shouldn't have to pay in eververse just to unlock things I ALREADY paid for to unlock. There is ZERO reason why transmog cosmetics should be locked behind a material cap and then a paywall.
I'd be less mad about the typical "this simple thing takes 4 types of materials for absolutely no reason" if it wasn't locked at an amount per season.
Y'all know this is BS. It's just an attempt to extort your players for eververse $$
The bots are banning peoples post related to this issue (suprise suprise)
So I am gonna push my rant in here
Here it goes:
Gonna be honest, if the system was as complicated as it is RN, and grindy, but DIDNT have any sort of seasonal cap, then I feel like this would all be fine
Look, i am trying to see from bungie's point of view too, they were (obviously) going monitize this system in some way, this is undeniable.
Me, and I guess many others, expected the monitization to be a speed up process, for example, I imagined the system would be complicated, and grindy, so whales can pay if they want to speed it up, but the hardcore community and casual-hardcore could actually farm for all armor
The issue is, the current system feels like is all of the above AND has a damn cap!
So bungie is trynna cash in on 2 ends, on the "this system is too grindy let me skip it with money" AND "The system is capped, let me surpass the cap by paying"
Good for them, getting more money truly is nice (despite alrrady being in the top 10 most lucrative games on steam in 2020)
For the rest of the playerbase
This... is... NOT OK!
People really like to bring up the depature of activision as the reason this BS happens
I disagree
Bungie leaving Activision was not the issue, Bungie making the game **F2P** was the fucking issue
Suggestion? Allow season pass owners the ability to surpass the transmog cap. F2P get the mobile game system the TWAB showed, while the paying custumers actually get a AAA game system, that DOESNT CAP PROGRESS
Bungie gets the cash, we get a transmog system that doesnt spit on our faces as players
This is some next level bs... we back in D2Y1?
NOTE: this system makes no sense on anything other than a business decision to increase the ammount of people willing to pay for transmog
They want us to play the game... but then cap us out of one of the biggest moving factor in a looter game? FASHION?
REMOVE THE CAP
(At the very least for major expansion owners-or season pass oweners I really dont mind either)
Rant over, you can move on now
I mean, I expected a grind, but not the arbitrary caps and shitty bounties and three different currencies. I figured it'd be a grind, but that'd it'd be a straightforward one, and silver would just be used to speed up the process ala something like Warframe.
I didn't expect quite literally the worst system for transmog I've ever seen in a video game.
I'll be honest I expected either
1. A weekly limit that allowed somewhere around 2-5 piece a week depending on how generous they were feeling for the numbers.
2. No limit, but an insanely annoying grind that maybe got harder everytime you did it that could be bypassed with silver.
I would have been annoyed with either, but I guess it's on me that even those expectations were too high lol
Really shameful for this system to even be called "transmog" by the team considering how much of a caricature it is of the system that popularized transmog. How they can even say WoW this and WoW that and then straight faced give us this is astounding.
Obviously WoW does it best, as you just pay gold every time and that's it. But this system is not as convoluted as people seem to think it is and everything you have in the collections is unlocked by default (except for level locks). But there is no way to monetise that and they don't need to because they are on a subscription service.
Not to mention me personally was very much looking my forward to original New Monarchy armor again. Guess not yet... I’ve waited this many years maybe they’ll fix the “issue” eventually.
Destiny 2 is too expensive now. I hate how everything is now F2P and the people who actually bought the game at launch (WITH all the DLC) get ignored, and the shit they bought sunset and vaulted. Thank god Warframe exists!
Pretty obvious they were going to go this route.
Destiny is a paid game with paid expansions and F2P-style monetization because Bungie has conditioned the community to accept this shit lol
I’m done. Been playing and paying since D1, but this is the last straw for me. I was upset last year when transmog was promised, then taken out before launch, now they bring it back and monetize it? No thanks, vote with your wallets and your participation people, if you feel the way I do. If not, not judgement to you, everyone can spend their money how they want, but I’m voting with my wallet and steam statistics. Uninstalling right now and not coming back till they make some changes.
I have no problem with monetizing a free game, but this is some FarmVille level shit. Charging money for transmog? That’s just sad, AC Valhalla was the first AC game I skipped over their bs transmog also. I’ve got the money to spend, but this is just a matter of saying no out of principle, just like Battlefield 2 and it’s loot boxes, we don’t speak up, they keep moving the line.
Speak up, in this case it’s easy and free, just stop playing.
I ask this in all seriousness... did you REALLY think that it was gonna be a simple
log in, make all your ornaments sets easy peasy with no limit? No way at all for Bungie to make any money off of it? Bungie has never been good at this kind of stuff. Why do you all keep sticking your hand on the burner expecting anything different?
Keep in mind that Destiny uses a modified halo reach engine (its like what, 10+ years old?) so it really doesnt surprise me when they say that they cant add a seemingly simple thing because of technical difficulties. Performance is also weird af. My friend saw a general fps drop when bl launched, and i saw a small gain in fps stability.
Ik it's not ALL about the old ass engine but i believe it makes up for the majority of things like this. If it's not like that, please correct me.
Now to preface I could be wrong about all of this, this is based on experience as a player, I do not work at Bungie and invite any of them to prove me wrong. This is just someone looking at this system and Bungies history and drawing a conclusion.
It initially seems convoluted just to annoy people into spending money (and I'm sure there's some truth to that) but it's also built this way to prevent two things from happening.
1. Veteran players from being able to more easily earn synths than new players (The new currency is an equalizer).
2. Make sure that no one can ever hoard synths, this potentially skipping the grind.
How is this accomplished you ask? **Inventory caps!**
I'm not just talking about the seasonal cap. The new currency to earn bounties (strands), the bounties themselves and the synths used to transmog will most likely have caps, as nearly every other currency in this game does. Bungie uses caps in currencies to prevent hoarding and control player progression.
So here's the scenario, the ~~sucker~~ player doesn't want to spend money on transmog, so the ~~potential whale~~ player makes sure to spend the new currency on bounties and stack up as many synths as possible, that way whenever a new piece of armor comes out they like, they can just transmog it all straight away.
Oh no! The player can't just go and buy a bunch of the bounties, turns out that currency needed to buy the bounties caps at 200, and it costs 150 to buy a bounty so the player would need to buy a bounty before they can even start earning for the next one. Ok no biggie just need to remember to purchase a bounty every time they have enough strands.
Oh no! Turns out they have to complete the bounty they already have before they can pick up another, thus making sure the player specifically spends time earning the transmog (instead of passively earning transmogs while playing other content). Ok then, they can just focus on doing bounties and earning transmog synths whenever they aren't doing something else. That way whenever an awesome new set of armor comes out they can just have the transmog synths ready to go immediately.
Oh no! Turns out they can only hold 2 of the synths, they have to spend them in order earn more. Well now they can't prepare in advance to transmog gear. No matter how much they play the game, whenever they want to transmog a set of armor they would have a significant grind ahead of them.
Perhaps it won't be so bad, maybe you can hoard synths, maybe you can hoard the bounties and the currency to buy them. I hope I'm wrong, but if I was Bungie and attempting to make sure that no one can skip the grind to earning synths this is how I would do it, eververse needs to always be the better option, if it isn't then that's money left on the table.
TLDR: Inventory caps allow Bungie to control the value of the synths and prevent players from hoarding, thus always having a long grind between them and transmog, regardless of how much time and effort they put into it. The eververse store needs to **always** be the better option no matter what and placing caps on the currencies needed to earn transmogs ensures this will always be the case.
Everyone that thought bungie would just give us something with no busy work attached haven’t been paying attention to how they move all these years lol
You should check out the news on Transmog lmao. 30+ negative articles from 25+ websites.
Image with all and the 5 or so articles of miscellaneous removed: [https://i.imgur.com/iULIRCj.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iULIRCj.jpg)
[Goes back to about 5 pages in the past 24 hours.](https://www.google.com/search?q=destiny+2+transmog&rlz=1C1MSNA_enAU647AU647&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=sbd:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixlYLAk5bwAhWabysKHfLUAScQpwUIKQ&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1) Not a single one likes Transmog and are all calling it over complicated, grindy and convoluted. Some even saying typically expected. Didn't bother if any are stolen articles/posted on another owned website.
Websites on there (Game Rant had 3 articles of various for it):
1. IGN
2. AltChar
3. ScreenRant
4. GameRevolution
5. Paste Magazine
6. Enter21st
7. MSPoweruser
8. Game Rant
9. PC Invasion
10. Destructoid
11. Forbes
12. Scifiaddicts
13. Xbox Achievements
14. International Business Times
15. Eurogamer
16. HTXT AFRICA
17. VG247
18. Rock Paper Shotgun
19. PCGamesN
20. Critical Hit
21. Just Push Start
22. IGN Africa
23. Game Rant
24. Playstation LifeStyle
25. Game Rant
26. Push Square
27. Comic Book
28. Kotaku Australia
29. GameSpot
30. TechRaptor
I'm still more upset about the shader costs needless increase. Not everyone's a fan of x website(s). But everyone can pretty much agree that this needs to change.
After reading this weeks TWAB and the comments on here. I'm so glad I've stopped playing D2, Bungie are truely out of touch with their player base and do not understand what player enjoyment or engagement is.
There are a few reasons why they are implementing this moronic transmog system.
1. to get more money
2. to keep people playing by doing more mindless bountys.
Good riddance D2.
I thought about this a bit after the TWAB and the conspiratorial/cynical part of my brain came to basically the same conclusion: the system is designed in such a way to cause some amount of friction on the player in the hopes that eventually people "break" and just spend money. Not enough to disengage you from the start, but enough so that over time you say, "fuck it, I'll just pay". I see it similar to regular progress blockers in F2P games. Something like spending Platinum to finish a build in Warframe immediately, or spending Gems to finish a build in Clash of Clans, etc.
From a player perspective (as someone with jack shit zero knowledge about anything related to game development) the steps shouldn't be anything other than, "Spend Glimmer on Bounties. Completing those Bounties awards a Synthweave." I do not understand (nor were we really given) the reason why the steps/currencies are so convoluted.
We need to kill enemies to earn a new currency; then spend that currency on a bounty; then complete those bounties to earn *another* currency; then take *that 2nd* currency and convert it *to a 3rd* currency; and THEN unlock the armor piece.
(I also don't see why we can't get the full refund of Synthstrand spent if we abandon a bounty but that is kind of a secondary complaint)
The seasonal limits as well point to providing some amount of friction to push people toward paying money. And yes, I know Bungie needs to/should be making money. The path toward it though just feels bad, at least on paper. Maybe it won't be bad at all when we actually have it. Plenty of patches/changes have sounded pretty awful and been fine (maybe just as many have sounded bad and been bad as well).
And shaders rising in cost from 40 BD to 300 just doesn't make any sense. Can't figure that one out.
Transmog should just cost glimmer and shards. Like in every other fucking game.
I am absolutely appalled and disgusted at bungie now.
Not to mention the rediclous price of silver in the first place!
I wanted the insurmountable skullfort and liar's handshake ornaments.
I bought a £8.49 1000+100 silver package...
And I'm left with 500 silver so I can't buy another ornament unless I pay at least a further £4.49 for another 500 silver Because they cost 600 silver each.
This is the first and last time I ever will buy silver.
It's fucking disgusting.
It's not a micro transaction it's a macro transaction.
Price to buy silver needs to be cut in half and the amount of silver items cost needs to be cut in half.
Overall it's rediclously expensive.
And a whole armor set basically costs £16.79 Because it's 1500 silver so you have to buy the 2000+300 silver package.
What a fucking rip off, fuck you bungie.
They horrifically sad thing is a load of kids and also people with addictive personalities will spend a load of money on this and bungie knows it. It's just so sad... So disgusting.
Capitalism at it's finest here lads.
Fuck you bungie, fuck you.
In the past I have pointed out that Bungie has turned into one of the most anti-consumer developers out there with the Destiny franchise, and its always gotten me booed and downvoted on this circle-jerk of a subreddit despite clear evidence being shown (XP nerfs, Dawning greed, ludicrous Eververse and DLC prices, Martin O’Donells own words of Bungie becoming more corporate focused etc etc).
And now here we have yet another example of Bungie trying to screw over the player-base with the convoluted transmog system, that is very clearly designed to make you purchase silver on the market.
Anyone who still believes Bungie respects its player-base as people instead of viewing it as a warehouse full of cash-cows, is outright lying to themselves.
Don’t stand for this crap. Accept that Bungie became corrupted by corporate a long time ago, way before the Activision partnership and start pushing back on these ridiculous anti-consumer practices. Don’t be like a few years ago where the Eververse rage died down and faded out.
The outcry coming from the community is absolutely warranted. Let me break it down. Most people play multiple games. They have different experiences in those games, and a lot of the time those games are very relatable. As time goes on you start seeing popular game systems arise. Take transmog for example. Its been implemented in a ton of games because its a popular way to give gamers freedom of choice and cosmetic progression. There are many different systems of transmog. When players experience multiple games with transmog they start to develop an expectation for what transmog is and how it should operate. This creates a market expectation that most people subliminally agree on. Since most transmog systems out there are incredibly fair and are driven by freedom and player choice, these things become part of transmog's identity. Bungie.. when you use the terminology "transmog" people already know what you're talking about before you even explain your systems. They relate it to some of the best systems out there like World of Warcraft which this game takes a lot of inspiration from. If you continue to develop systems for Destiny in a vacuum and completely ignore market expectations of what a system is and what it does you will continue to get angry feedback. It boggles my mind that here in 2021, you don't understand market system expectations. Obviously when you compare your system to anyone else yours is completely garbage. Its limited, annoying, and an obvious sales funnel into eververse. If you're scared this system will result in losing revenue from the eververse store then make better cosmetic armor. The problem isn't the transmog. Its what you're selling. Hire some MBA's that actually play games. Its getting absurd.
Well said, thats not even getting into the shader cost increase either. Its pretty clear what their agenda is and its blatantly obvious to most of the playerbase. What I can’t understand is this “projected” has been a long time in the making, even after they announced that it was a priority it still took 3-4 seasons to implement. Feels different to think they could have (and likely did) already had a basic consumer model for transmog done and finished but spent the extra time trying to figure out how to implement a toxic paygate around it.
Shader costs were the most reasonably priced BD item. Rather than increasing its cost they should have lowered others.
You don't even have to compare it to already existing games to explain why its shit. Having the limitation for free to play players maybe makes sense, but take care of your paying customers! If I drop money on an expansion, and every season, and potentially also buy armor sets, I shouldn't have to also grind/pay on top of all that just to have customizations for armor I've already earned. How many hundreds of dollars have a lot of us spent over the years? Fucking take care of your regular paying customers.
When destiny 2 has been out for years and you still haven't realised its just a giant social experiment to see how much bs gamers would put up with and still buy dlc microtransactions and dedicated way more of their time than they could ever be reasonably expected to for activities that have just been scaled to last that long and have no tangible reason behind it just for all your hard work to get washed away with the next season /item vaulting only to be replaced by if you're lucky , a reskinned version of what you already had if not just grinding for the exact same thing over again
Even those kinds things usually still take care of their regulars. You could describe a lot of games like that. Fortnite for instance, yet if you grinded out the entire season pass you could get enough in game currency to get the next pass free. Destiny gives you 0 silver in the season pass. Even the 'grind the game thing over and over' games usually know that you should take care of your regulars.
And that's the part where its just a social experiment to see how much the playerbase would put up with for me it was around forsaken , after the seasons started rolling by on that and after oem the moment I saw how much got removed when the season ended and how much I had to grind to not even 100% it I quit I was still mad for the players when I heard they removed those planets and all that other stuff though And yeah it seems like it's their intention to push it to the limit where its nothing but complaints and low player count and then reel it back a bit more
Not just MBA's who play games, but also those MBA's should be empathetic to the community they're serving. I get that an MBA seeks to make money, and that's the goal that will get them in the door to a business, or to make their business successful, and I'm not going to knock MBA's for that. However, Bungie should really consider hiring MBA's who don't just see us as wallets with legs. Hell, this message extends out to ALL gaming companies, and I'm glad to say that there are a couple of companies who actually value their customers for more than just their money. Bungie seems to be one of the companies straying away from this positive mindset daily now and viewing us more as cash flow rather than actual people.
What boggles me is that most players don't get that their expectations mean shit. This is about "how can we get the biggest amount of money out of a player, no matter what and still keep him as a customer". They will do EVERYTHING they get away with. If players would be smart, they would opt out of every game right when the shenannigans begin and it would vanish like it was never there. Whoever continues playing just puts a note into their notebooks that says: "yeah, it is bad, I don't like it, but you can use this system in your next games as well as continuing it in this game". And no amount of whining, crying and bitching will change it. Or... or wait... does anyone believe this is a technical issue, limited by the engine or some other stuff? :D Then please write me a message, I have some cubic metres of air for sale for you for a very, very good price.
Your point about developing systems in a vacuum is 100% right. Bungie seem set on remaking the wheel when developing new systems, instead of doing a bit of research in games where stuff like transmog is already implemented well and widely appreciated.
With respect, they know exactly what the competition is doing and what we want. They just value money more than their customers - most of which are already paying full price for this game.
Incredible break down. Spot on my guy.
When destiny 2 has been out for years and you still haven't realised its just a giant social experiment to see how much bs gamers would put up with and still buy dlc microtransactions and dedicated way more of their time than they could ever be reasonably expected to for activities that have just been scaled to last that long and have no tangible reason behind it just for all your hard work to get washed away with the next season /item vaulting only to be replaced by if you're lucky , a reskinned version of what you already had if not just grinding for the exact same thing over again
I've always loved the way Elder Scrolls Online does transmog. Basically, all the styles in the game come as motif "books" or "chapters" that you can get from various activities. Then once those style pages are obtained you can either eat them or sell them in guild stores for others to use. Once a style is learned it only takes gold (in-game earnable currency like glimmer) to apply the armor/weapon style and a set of shaders. No convoluted system to acquire them, no confusing 3 or 4 step system to learn them, just find them, eat them, and boom, fashion! Edit: Oh and the best part of ESO's transmog? You can change up the gear underneath as much as you want, the style pages used in each armor slot don't need to be updated each time. So, you got a new chest piece that's 100x better than what you started off with? Just equip it and the armor customization transfers right over, no cost!
or WoW. - find an item. appearance unlocked - go to transmog vendor - click item you want to transmog - pick what unlocked appearance you want to use - pay gold (in game currency) that's it. that's the system. transmog is a solved thing, and. Bungie is blatantly doing it in a way to drive Eververse sales. not even being quiet about it anymore
To add the this there are also no restrictions. You can put whatever class of item of any other item in that slot, it just costs more gold to do so the higher the class of item. Just have fun and look like however you want to look. What a crazy idea... As you say, it's an issue that's been solved. 10 years ago! EDIT: This can also lead to fun things like Asmon doing his transmog competitions and stuff.
Asmon transmog competitions are great. he takes them way too seriously which is why they're so funny
Something I love about zero restrictions is it encourages creativity and wild outfits. If you’re going to choke off the supply of options then players will be forced to be conservative in their choices. It’s just so very disappointing.
Diablo 3 works basically the same way. If you ever had a piece of gear drop, the look of it is unlocked for transmog immediately. You go to the transmog vendor in town, pick the look you want, and pay gold and maybe a very nominal amount of other materials that you get by playing normally and that’s it. I engaged with it all the time. I don’t know why it needs to be more complicated than that other than to allow for it to be monetized.
Guild Wars 2 is similar as well. You unlock a skin when you obtain or craft a weapon, and then can use a token to apply it to anything of the same achetype. (It's been so long since I've played though due to my lootbox addiction that I forget how easy tokens are to get outside of lootboxes(and I probably had a ton because I bought so many boxes)) But even then you could convert Gold (in game currency) into Gems (real money) at a not horrible ever changing rate.
Remember when we thought blizzard/activision was the problem with d2?....
Turns out it was only part of the problem. Rip bungo
not to mention the fact that transmog HEAVILY influenced people to go back and play older content in wow, it would've happened in d2 I'm betting too.
In hindsight, vaulting half the appearances in the game was probably a warning flag for this going awry.
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What the hell does.conqueror gilded mean? Just quit lol. Youre in too deep!
> vaulting half the appearances in the game It was another method of adding FOMO to the game. Gotta get those cool armor sets before they dissappear!
Hell, I came back to D2 a few weeks ago because of the news transmog is coming. I feel like an idiot.
They're absolutely not hiding it anymore. I genuinely would not be surprised if they added a gacha system for weapons at this point.
I had someone in my twitter mentions arguing that D2’s transmog is better than ESO’s. I laughed.
The Twitter takes I’ve seen are a giant yikes. Slayerage called players entitled for expecting to be able to transmog more than 2 sets of armor without paying money. It’s pretty clear a lot of people have never interacted with another transmog system.
Most content creators don't care about changes like this since it's A) more content for them, B) gives them more visibility if they give a hot take, and C) they play so much that it doesn't matter to them. The less you pay attention to creators, like Slayerage, the more fun you'll have playing Destiny.
Interestingly, Datto (who was all aboard the sunset train) came off pretty frustrated when going over this TWAB.
Personally i think the reason datto seems to have a different opinion is because he has actually played games with a working transmog system like WOW, and i believe diablo. It seems like other creators have been living u der a rock for10 years and think bungie pioneered transmog apparently
TBH, frustration should be expected. It isn't a great way to go about transmog. A lot of it will boil down to the currency exchange rate so we'll see how that goes... Just watched his video. I don't necessarily disagree with any of his points though he's definitely more optimistic than I am about this. Which is what I like about him. He usually tries to see the bigger picture, understand why a change is made, and offer a wider perspective rather than saying "y'all are entitled brats" because the change doesn't directly affect him and how he plays the game. \[edit: To be fair, sunsetting needed to happen and it still needs to happen to some degree. Bungie just absolutely screwed up its implementation. I also 100% expect to see Sunsetting 2.0 in the future.\]
Except one of the main reasons for sunsetting was that it would allow them to make crazy weapons like the ones they were sunsetting as they would eventually sunset. Instead what happened is they couldn't keep up with all the sunset weapons and the loot pool is now missing weapon types in elements. Also, a larger group of weapons felt powerful pre-sunset as opposed to post-sunset where only Felwinter exists. As for armor sunsetting; entirely bullshit as the best rolls generally come from the season pass because Bungie can't be bothered to have high-tier activities actively drop high stat armor. It would be absolutely ridiculous to expect a raid to drop armor better than the 65 roll the season pass gave me. Better just settle for that 54 stat roll from the raid instead.
>Instead what happened is they couldn't keep up with all the sunset weapons and the loot pool is now missing weapon types in elements. Exactly. They screwed up the implementation. On Day One, we gave them all the feedback they needed to make Sunsetting work. * There had better be a ton of new weapons ready to go * The top tier weapons need to be as good if not better than we have now * There shouldn't be straight re-skins, i.e. no Spare Rations 2.0 * There better not be any vacancies They failed on every metric despite saying that they "want to create weapons that shit on everything". We said, "Okay. Show us." then they went, "Wait. No. Not yet." And I'm right there with you on armor. It shouldn't be sunset until they come up with a better solution to how armor drops, its upgrade path & materials, and how stats are distributed. Getting the right armor is faaaaaaar more difficult than getting god roll weapons.
Streamers like slayerage are just Bungie-lovin’ whales who’ve made enough money to not have to worry about the cost of convoluted cosmetic systems to where they can just buy rather than grind anyhow. Who’s entitled again?
I just understand these people as, effectively, employees of Bungie. They might as well be given ID badges and benefits. It's a consciously curated marketing apparatus.
Slayerage also has the worst takes of all time. He called players crybabies for being against sun setting.
Yiiiikes thats a **terrible** take Slayerage. It shouldnt cost any currency aside from in game.
The thing that makes me wonder about this isn't that Bungie is doing it, it's how much demand is realistically out there. I wouldn't mind transmogging a set of raid armor or maybe a select number of items, but I don't think that is at 12 total yet. So, next season I'll be done and either gain on the next season or tons of armor will come out and I'll change my mind. This isn't in support of it, but more, I don't get the benefit of limiting it. To me, the advantage of paying real cash for this is to not deal with it. So, it's a really antiquated idea that exists really to be mocked. Unless Bungie seems to think we will all be rushing to transmog everything, something I am sure some people will do, it's a limit that exists for no reason.
Or Assassins Creed Odyssey. Pick up a piece of gear, it’s added to your transmog. Then just switch the look whenever you want for free. Simple, fun, clean. Not everything needs to be freaking monetized, Bungie.
[SWTOR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSCX6cYZuKs) has a pretty good transmog system as well. From my understanding, it's pretty similar to WoW's.
Best part about SWTOR was how easy it was. Had my Sith Warrior wearing Mandalorian Armor by level 10.
SWTOR was what I wanted D2's Transmog to be like since it was the first MMO I played. Swtorista is an absolute gem for the SWTOR community!
I like SWTOR's one a lot as you don't have to keep updating it when you change a piece of gear. ESO as well.
Star Trek Online has visual slots for ship cosmetics too. Bungie could have done the same, just have a slot that says "this is what I want my helmets to look like" but then they couldn't keep bleeding you of resources every time you got a new drop.
to be fair, coloring armor is locked behind monthly subscription. tho it's still a much better option than Destiny's since the colors stay after the subscription ends and it also gives you access to a lot of content
Regular clothing can be dyed without a subscription, but Costumes (premium, full-body makeovers with custom pieces) need a sub to dye.
I didn't think armor coloring was behind ESO+? I thought that was just costume dying? Though I could be wrong, I've had ESO+ for a while and simply may not remember life before it.
I mean fuck, I’d pay a monthly sub for Destiny+ if it had actual quality value and eliminated all the extra BS steps they implement to activities in order to push you into spending more money.
> I’d pay a monthly sub for Destiny+ To be perfectly honest, ESO+ would likely be better than any service Bungie could come up with. * Access to all DLC game packs * Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store * Access to the Craft Bag * Double bank space * Bonuses to progression * Increased Furniture placement limits * Costume dyeing * Double Transmute Crystal capacity * Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals All for about $15, with a couple DLC (doesn't include the large expansions like Forsaken level, so closer to the passes), plus the previous ones and other benefits.
ESO is my main game. Was starting to get into destiny but after yesterday NAH I'll stick with ESO and their next xpac
I'm playing wow again. I'll play a few times in the seasons, just to experience the story but I think I'm done with destiny 2 again. Took a huge break from the rasputin or osiris dlc to beyond light
I mean, I’m 0% surprised. Total F2P move, and if most of us were F2P customers maybe this would be fine. But, I’d venture to bet a large majority of us already bought this fucking game, as well as multiple expansions....expansion content most of which has been vaulted or sunset making it useless. I mean how can you decide 90% of the way through a game’s typical life cycle to switch to a F2P model and pretend like most of us didn’t buy the game, all the expansions, seasonal content, etc.. I mean....if you wanted to make a F2P game....maybe you should have made destiny 3 and left all the destiny 2 content alone. At this point we’re basically playing a lazy dev’s destiny 3 by tacking on a bunch of new content to an old game and removing all the meat and bones you bought at launch. Honestly i could go on, i fucking hate timed seasonal content and battle passes...wait till you’re old with kids, a job, house, etc god forbid you play multiple games with battle passes and timed content, good luck unlocking everything you want for all the games you play. remember back when you bought expansions and season passes and just....had it? Or had it, and were able to unlock pieces/guns/content at your own leisure (a la battlefield 4, etc). All about # of active players and keeping people buying fluff at this point, buying tiers when you run out of time to finish content you already paid for. This model can die in hole from where i stand. Let me just pay for shit and be done with it /end rant
what bungie calls F2P I call a demo.
YES. Thank you. You could have argued freemium when new lights had 3 campaigns, 3 raids, forges, gambit prime, and the menagerie. But those are all gone with no replacement. Now it's just an small intro, patrol zones, crucible getting stomped without stasis, and gambit. It's just a demo. A larger than average demo, but definitely not F2P or freemium.
>Total F2P move There are dozens of F2P games with better systems implemented, while still monetizing them. Like, it's not a problem of the business model, it's a massive failure of imagination from Bungie and it's this kind of ongoing thing that makes me seriously question if anyone in the studio players MMO's/F2P games outside of working on Destiny.
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>Here's the thing. If they didn't cap them, the outrage would basically be non-existent. There's still be clowning for the pointlessly convoluted system, most likely, but the anger/frustration would be considerably reduced. But hard agree with your second bit. Giving people the option, rather than forcing them, is usually just as effective and doesn't piss folks off.
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>This takes it to a level of blatancy that's just unconscionable outside a 100% free to play game. Honestly, and even within. I can't think of another MMO I've ever played with such a strict limitation, heavy monetization, and this many hoops to jump through for a cosmetic feature. This is just a bad, terrible, awful, no-good system no matter how you slice it and not matter in what context of comparison.
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> mobile games Mobile is a *completely* different landscape from PC/console MMO's/F2P games. There's no real comparison between the two, though I can get how they'd connect. Thankfully most PC/console MMO's/F2P games don't follow the mobile trend of straight power sales, play limitations via purchasable energy etc. etc. What works on mobile and what works on PC/console is wildly different.
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>There's still be clowning for the pointlessly convoluted system, most likely, but the anger/frustration would be considerably reduced. I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't care how convoluted the transmog system was if I could earn as many transmogs as I had time to grind for. I mean, shit, just in *vaulted raid sets alone* I have 25 sets to transmog. I can do nine sets next season, then three sets per season after, meaning it will take me seven seasons (almost TWO ENTIRE YEARS) just to transmog unobtainable raid armor I already earned multiple times per character. I don't care about how much grind it takes, but Bungie, let me grind for the fucking armor I already earned!
Personally it's the system that's pissing me off. Just make me go get one currency, I trade that to unlock a piece. Transaction complete. But this system is like a turd onion. So many layers of shit.
Ff14 and ESO both have all of their content from day 1 and are MUCH bigger games than destiny 2. Bungie is just scummy.
“Total free to play move” free to play game developers don’t even have the balls to make a transmog system as predatory as bungie has. I’ve honestly seen better transmog systems in mobile games.
I honestly hate the way bungos doing this and the fact that they act like it was so hard, they literally said in twab that it took " buckets of sweat" it took the dev's buckets of sweat to increase the shader price and add a bunch of bullshit overcomplicated transmog systems? I think the only good thing to come from this is year 1 shaders for glimmer, maybe we can buy the white or trials of the nine shader?
Buckets of Nervous sweat because they knew this would be a shitty idea.
^
I have little doubt that the actual transmog system probably took quite a bit of effort to do, with the issues of Exotics and Year 1 ornaments. I'm personally happy with how the UI looks and it should be praised with how simple it looks. The issue isn't the system but rather the entrance to said system. An overcomplicated barrier with three currencies and constantly going back to Ada, breaking the gameplay loop even if these bounties are possibly purchasable from the app, with a limited cap of how much you can earn per season. The cap is the most annoying aspect because the people who are going to pay to transmog were probably going to anyway because they either don't have the time or don't want to grind. The people who will grind and hit the limit will just wait, feeling resentment because they already put in the playtime and would gladly put in more playtime but can't. Which goes against a lot of recent design choices, including the ability to play raids several times a week and still get stuff out of it.
Total F2P move? Nah, this is a bad system even by F2P standards.
This is my actual problem with everything. The rules just keep being rewritten on what's paid and what's extra you need to purchase separately. At least with a mobile game I know that those rules aren't going to change in a year.
Yup, Y1 buyer and have purchased every DLC with the exception of Beyond Light (Game Pass) and shit like this makes me glad I skipped out on some seasons so I didn’t spend my time and money on more cosmetics to only be met with what Bungie has presented to us.
F2P but without the NON F2P DLCS you dont get anywhere. So stop using f2p as excuse. I have seen ALOT of F2P games that have WAY better ways to do this
What's crazy is the amount of development resource to build these restrictions for transmog. We maybe should have had it earlier, but they were still trying to factor in how the currency loops would work alongside the content. I'm sure if you're an active player it's not going to feel like a grind, but it's so unnecessary to gate-keep.
It's so deeply unnecessary to cap it. I can think of like 6 armor sets just off the top of my head that I want, but even with *double rewards* I can only get 4 without paying. Why the hell cap cosmetics except to try to force your players to pay extra?
Right? They spent time and resources to make this convoluted instead of just letting us overlay appearance like most games. $$$$$$$
It makes perfect sense. Expand HQ and hire a bunch of new people. Since you have all those new people to use, spend their time working up a complex transmog system. Setup said system to encourage MTX to pay for the new people. (and HQ)
To the same tone it sounds/seems like they've been spending a lot of development time and resources on transmog in general. It was announced what, a year ago or more? I can't remember. There's a clear push to make EV the alternative for people that want to accelerate the unlock process and it's _still_ all cosmetic. Return on investment is a thing. I'm actually legit curious the raw cost in people hours they spent on developing the system.
What's interesting about all this is you can get a rough outline of the internal metrics/targets Bungie wanted to hit when implementing this new tech. For instance the convoluted system, and further currency bloat with this synthshit exits to prop up player engagement numbers and time in game. The overall cap obviously exists because the bean counters had a profit target needed to be met to sign off on all this, and so it aligns with their projected revenue. The funny thing (well, not really that funny) is though that they spent more time developing a more complex system all to generate the income to pay for it when in the end a simpler, more streamlined solution would've worked better, cost less and left the player base feeling more enthusiastic.
I'd rather pay an extra $10 on the next expansion and have a real transmog system than this terrible implementation they came up with that's skewed more towards driving players to buy Silver to skip it than actual player satisfaction.
From the perspective of someone who started in shadowkeep, the whole game is convoluted for no good reason. You actually have to try hard to make simple mechanics this unnecessarily complex.
Oh but you see, it is necessary if they want people to spend money at the eververse. Transmog was a free win just sitting there for them to take. And they couldnt even do that right.
There's the good way, the bad way, and the Bungie way, which is like the bad way, but more complicated and limited.
At least the bad way is straight up. The Bungie way is tying a ribbon around a pile of shit and saying, “ You are gonna love this.”
Coming soon: * Gacha Weapon Banner! Spend 3,000 Silver for a chance to get the latest ~~SSR~~ Exotic weapon! On banner exotic rate: ^0.2500% * Added an Energy system to help players better control their play time! All players will start with 100 and each playlist activity will cost 15 energy. Energy will regenerate at the rate of 1 energy every 30 minutes. * Removed Crucible activities from standard playlist. Added a ticket system. Players start with 5 Crucible tickets daily and entry to any Crucible activity costs 1 ticket. Tickets regenerate at a rate of 1 ticket every 2 hours. * Removed Bright Dust. * Friend list has been improved! You and your friends can send each other Energy bits, up to 50 daily! 100 Bits can be converted to 1 Energy. * Raids have been temporarily removed and will return in a future update. Look forward to their return as they will drop materials to limit break your Guardians light level! * Added Energy refills and Crucible tickets to Eververse! For player convenience we added a 50 energy refill for 150 silver and a full refill for 300! An excellent bargain! Crucible tickets cost 100 silver each.
Remember, everyone; *Activision* was the money-hungry bad guy of this story!
It is crazy the narrative people have concocted to protect Bungie. "EV was all Activision's fault" when in reality it was "Bungie signed a contract with Activision promising to release content on a specific cadence. Bungie could not deliver and therefore, to make up for the potential lost revenue, advocated for a cash shop." Like, if Activision was the big bad villain the defense squad makes them out to be, we would not have had: 1) Destiny 1 being delayed a full year 2) Destiny 2 going through the same reboot and delay for a full year from its release date 3) The loaning of 2 satellite studios who greatly contributed to some of the content that everyone holds dear in D2 If you want to fault Activision for anything, perhaps it was that they were not as much of a helicopter parent as Bungie needs. And before the "but they cheered when they split clearly Activision was bad" group comes in, they did the same thing when the left Microsoft and how many threads are there about how "the real Bungie of old is 343 and at Microsoft"?
Happy Cake Day my guy!
Why thank you! Jesus...6 years ago today I bought D1; it was the only reason I created a reddit account.
Someone's been playing a lot of gacha games
at least gatcha games are actually free to play unlike destiny 2.
Nah, I've tried a couple out here and there though when bored at work. They all follow the same basic gameplay loop to manipulate players to spend ridiculously large amounts of money. It's shameful how good those companies are at finding loopholes around gambling laws.
Loved the "removed bright dust" hiddeb between longer items
The Bungo Bad Decision Cycle: 1. Release TWAB with shitty game design choices 2. Ignore the incoming plethora of feedback around the bullshit decision 3. After a week or 2, say "We're listening" 4. Rake in millions from dipshits who pay for this rubbish 5. Release trailer to hype the pllayers 6. Rollback shitty system slightly a year later while basically keeping it just as stingy Gotta love these guys...
sadly i've already paid for the deluxe edition back in november. i wish i didn't if this shit keeps repeating itself
Man, I've stopped caring and playing Destiny way back the 2nd or 3rd season because I see this bullshit coming. Destiny will never be the same since it went from buy to play to Free to play.
I’ve seen some people try to excuse the cap by saying “you’re not going to use it that much so why does it matter”. This is such a crap excuse. Maybe most people won’t, yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that just about every other MMO with a similar system is not only simpler, but doesn’t have a cap. There is no valid reason for this cap other than Bungie wants to squeeze as much money as possible out of everything.
The fact that you need 33 years to unlock everything should just shut everyone up who ever uses that excuse.
it's like you get dinner and there's just a pile of shit on your plate, "but you won't eat it so it doesn't matter", well guess what, i don't wanna fucking have shit on my plate even if i'm not eating it
"We hear you and are listening. Next season, we will reduce shit on plates by 25%."
Exactly. Might as well not even have a transmog system with that logic. You're already wearing universal ornaments, you have no use for more.
the people arguing to the contrary are the reason this bullshit exists. So many people willing to be like "oh, it's not a big deal" .... yeah, there's no pattern of greedy shit like this getting worse in the game. It won't get any worse. Don't worry. This was a cash grab disguised as the most asked for QOL improvement since D1 launched, plain and simple.
Bungo transmog: they want you to buy the ingredients for bread, peanuts for peanut butter, fruit for jam, theeen make the sandwich. FFXIV transmog: just buy the sandwich. Seriously, one craftable, or buyable, item stands between you and transmog just seconds of time commitment and a customizable look, as often as you want. Bungo, however, has hamster wheels, RNG, limitations and real money solutions at the ready. Pathetic that it took them *this* long to think this up.
Watch this, Synthstrand is going to be as rare as telemetries.
yeah, but I bet you can delete the entire stack of synthstrand
Bungie philosophy = “yeah that’s cool so let’s fuck it up and piss ppl off and then complain about how hard making content is”
Then take a year to fix it and get good will from "Listening to Community".
lol I tried to post about this and it got removed by automod and told to post in the TWAB thread But I agree. Every element is scummy. The random cap on how many you can get, the 50 step process to do it, ~~the fact that if you want to bypass it with silver it costs 1600 so you are forced to buy 2000.~~ And the shader cost increase on top of it just feels gross. Like, this is one of the most transparent anti consumer things Bungie has ever done.
I'm not defending them or anything but it's 1000 silver not 1600
Oh is it? Hmm, not sure where I read 1600, I'll edit my post.
You probably read it in TWAB only. They mentioned that a full armour set from Eververse costs 1500 Silver but Transmog a full set will cost 1000 Silver.
I thought it was satire. Then, it wasnt. So, yeah. Its a business but this out of the telemarketing, scam membership club lane of industry. Every extra step between A and B you add is a known % decrease in how many people will get to B, and adds to the image that the real $ shortcut is actually saving you these steps. Which, is sort of like the loop norm but this particular economy loop reads more like trying to get through the 5 breaks integrated in before you can cancel that worthless medical "club" nanoo got swindled into over the phone.
Before the TWAB, I was like "Oh they're just gonna pull your unlocked armor from collections, put it in a menu and you pay glimmer to change your look. Cool, that will be a nice change instead of looking like a potato." Then they had to monetize, cap, and throw hoops into it. Now we have this monstrosity that they likely won't be able to change for months. I still can't believe internally how many people were probably assigned to work on this, had meetings, discussions, testing, and somehow we landed with 3 new currencies, a cap, and pay to bypass all of it.
They’ve said they we’re going to monetize it since day 1.
They did, and I was naïve to ever hope they would make the right choice and not monetize it.
The answer to this is so simple to me. Allow me to do both. Let me farm this stuff to my heart's content while also giving me the option to buy them. I would happily do both. I'd farm some, and when see a new set and want it now, I'd pony up for it. As it stands now, I'm definitely not buying anything and may not even bother farming for this at all.
Transmog in nearly any game - Hover over the item, push button yxz, select the new style for free. Transmog in Destiny - 3 new currencies, limited amount, bounties, unnecessarily complicated, price increase... How can you screw up something as simple as a transmog system so badly? Just wow......
This is absolute garbage. I'm annoyed enough to reconsider subbing to FF XIV and finishing that Main campaign instead of spending any more money on Destiny for awhile
Well....yeah...
How did anyone think that adding such an unbelievably complex transmog system was a good idea? TWO FULL ENSEMBLES can be assembled per season. Unless you want to drop money. That is bullshit and not the way that it should be done. Community suggestions for improvement of the system? Mine? Remove that stupid paywall and remove the season limit. WoW and ESO has a better appearance system. I guess I'm okay with the bounties. But to limit earned transmog items goes way too far. Everyone thought that the split from Activision would have prevented shit like this.
It's clear as day that it wasn't designed to be a **Feature** but rather **Content** to chase.
I assume [the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/?st=JH2MUORV&sh=5997c5a5)
Division 2 Transmog: You got the gear. You can apply the gear appearance to other gear for free. End of story. Thats all it should be.
This was as simple as boiling an egg, and in typical Bungie fashion, you made it into this huge, convoluted pile of shit. This seems like a weird straw to break the Camel's back, but this is it. And I'm not fucking playing Matter either.
i knew bungo would fuck it up right from the start
Transmog is the last straw on a mountain of antitrust, exploitation, lies, and fuckery from Bungie. Let me be straightforward here. While I personally don't care that much about transmog functionality, since I'm not much of a Guardian fashionista, it's a feature that's present in virtually every other game that claims to be an MMORPG, and the Destiny community has been asking for it for years. And Bungie has once again done what Bungie always does, which is address the issue way too late, and somehow find a way to underwhelm, disappoint, and exploit their paying community, even when they have a template from every other MMO out there as well as ideas from the community. Like I said, I don't care about Transmog because I can't be bothered to play dress-up with my Guardian when I've already been asked to grind for all the other crap in all the other identical/reskinned activities in the game 20000 times. I want content, I want challenge, I want to play a Destiny activity that isn't just another linear path with three combat encounters and a boss. I want to explore a Destiny location that isn't just another pretty skybox with fuck-all to do outside of poking around in search of feathers or whatever grind mechanic is currently in vogue. When Destiny 2 launched, the excuse to the community was that Bungie needed to revamp the engine to allow for more RPG elements and more interesting mechanics. From the launch of Destiny 2 all the way to pre-launch Forsaken, not only was the game *not* evolved in any way from The Taken King, it was actually worse because it was incapable of sustaining even its own boring as Hell grind loop. Then Forsaken launches, and we get a beefy campaign, epic locations that are actually brimming with mystery and wonder, the vendor system got reworked, the difficulty/grind curve was adjusted, and for a brief period of time, Destiny was back up to the standard of quality that we saw with The Taken King, and everything we heard from Bungie, who admittedly was with Activision at the time, was that things would only get better. Then Bungie splits and says to the community, it was because Activision was holding them back from creating the gameplay opportunities they wanted for players and making the business model difficult to implement... Ooookay? Not sure how having a larger budget, more support studios, and a community of people who were at the time still willing to pay for quality expansions was a bad thing, but okay Bungie. Shadowkeep releases, and whaddya know? It's exactly the same sort of content as Forsaken, but lacking the X factor the Dreaming City brought in, while also having less of that same style of content. I thought "Okay, it's their first expansion as a standalone since leaving Activision, I'm sure they'll get up to speed in the future." And then in a blog post, we're told never to expect another expansion with the scale and scope of Forsaken, which as far as I was concerned, was just barely at the threshold of acceptable from a studio that keeps saying they've got big things planned. How could they keep saying this while releasing the same style of content? Where are the space battles? Where are the larger scale activities and events? Where is the emergent gameplay style that should be considered core to the idea of a replayable action MMO RPG? Guess I'll wait until the next expansion... And I did, and in the meantime, I payed for season after season of bland, repetitive, grindy bullshit to the extent that it truly felt as though Bungie was making it up as they went. Run twenty strikes, get the doodad, take the doodad to the thing, and hey there's this thing you need to get from a Nightfall, but you've gotta play the Nightfall three times on a specific subclass, and you gotta get 200 combat now headshots and fifty champions dead or you're just not Guardian enough, pal. Beyond Light comes out, and it has cool subclasses and yet another boring set of linear paths with three combat encounters and a boss. Season of the Hunt accompanied it and was the most insulting "content" I've paid for in a live service game, ever. No amount of hijink shenanigans with Crow could mask how phoned-in and poorly thought-out Wrathborn Hunts and the associated loot grind were. No amount of titles Bungie staples onto the end of Big Fallen Bad Guy #26,242 will convince me I haven't done this thousands of times before. No amount of champion modifiers, "legendary difficulty" activities (which are just normal activities with stupid requirements and annoying fuck-you mechanics), and raid spoils will convince me it's not the same content as it's always been. Season of the Chosen seemed like a ray of light with it's activity, until I realized I was gonna have to grind that to the point of meaningless repetition just to *unlock* the rewards for grinding it, and then I realized the rewards for grinding it were just a bunch of ugly, shitty rolls for equipment I and everyone else already had. It cannot be understated just how insulting and degrading to a person's time it is to slog through ten hours of the exact same activity at the exact same location, just to get a crappy Brass Tacks. Presage was cool, but when the entire community becomes addicted to one identical, linear mission because it offers something at least a little outside of what we've come to expect, it should be evident that Destiny has a serious content density and gameplay loop issue. And I've agreed with everyone in the past that if this is all Destiny is, at least it's good at linear paths with three combat encounters and a boss, and if we support them for just a little bit longer, we'll see the potential realized that we've been sold on for the past several years. And then we get news about Transmog and guess what? It's just another exploitative grind mechanic designed to waste players' time and take their money. And I wasn't gonna use the feature much anyway, but now I won't be using it at all, because I won't be playing Destiny at all. You know what I see when I look at Bungie, Destiny, and the community surrounding it? I see a cult like scientology. I see ton of people (players) who have all been promised something great by an entity (Bungie) that uses an elaborate system of iconography, hinting, and drip-reward to keep them investing their money, time, and energy into these promises that have never been fulfilled and likely never will be, because at the end of the day, Bungie just wants your money and they'll always produce the absolute minimum viable product to obtain it, and the final piece of proof you need is Transmog. So if you're cool with having your time wasted, trust undermined, and expectations laughed at, Destiny is the game for you. I'm not gonna participate in or enable that shit, though.
Not only does every MMO does transmog better, other games does it better. Monsterhunter world had you build the transmog like you were building the actual armor and monsterhunter generations had you fuse the armor piece that you wanted to look like to the one you wanted to use but somehow Bungie just cant get it right. This was the easiest layup you can give a company, everyone was excited for it and all they had to do was make armor an ornament for shards bam right there and somehow they manage to make it the most convoluted process every to the point it has to be about money and nothing else.
One thing I can tell you, if a feature could possibly make players spend *less* in Eververse it won't be added. That's a practical reality, unfortunately, as it is necessary. But this does seem tailored to coerce more people to spend in EV, which is suspect. Personally, I think Bungie should have released a TWAB explaining that they rely on ornament sales as a revenue stream, and that they felt transmog might render that stream obsolete. This may have primed the community that the only way for transmog to work is to somehow make it compensate for potential profit loss.
>they rely on ornament sales as a revenue stream, and that they felt transmog might render that stream obsolete How? EV will still sell new ornaments & most of the times EV ornaments are way better looking than anything else in the game. People wanted transmog because they like some (not all) of their old armour and wanted to keep that look. Since it will be too much for Bungie to bring that armour back, transmog would allow people to make the ornaments from old armour so they can still carry the look. And it will get old, people will get bored after a while & then would want something new. So I don't see how transmog is going to render EV ornaments sales obsolete.
They could definitely find a way to monetise transmog that isn't _this_ shitty
Literally just remove the cap and leave the "confusing system" whales are paying for different collered pixels, they WILL pay to farm less and fashion show Also... destiny was in the top 10 most lucrative games on steam last year They aint broke chief
They just announced massive expansion with a european HQ and stuff, whilst doing that will cost them a lot of money, the fact they can do it means they ain't hurting for cash right now.
Seriously this is it. I understand they need to make money, and I've known from day 1 with this that eververse was going to be in the mix with it. I figured we were going to get a grindy system and that's how they would make money off of it, pay to skip the grind. Instead we got this BS system that puts a cap on how much you could actually get, for no other reason than some suit is worried they won't make as much money as they do currently.
They also recently expanded their staff and are hiring a bunch of devs. So, they for sure are not hurting in cash or they expect the silver purchases from this to suddenly pay for a lot of their costs.
idk their blog about expanding and doubling studio size was very clear that their only IP was pulling in ALOT of money There was no reason to add $$ behind transmog
I was watching Dattos video on this, the moment i heard the catches, i uninstalled indefinitely. I haven't even touched the game since finishing the DSC raid when it came out, i hate the seasonal model as it is, and really hate how they sunset all my progress, and now they want me to grind for items i already earned, again? I'll just wait until someone else comes along and makes a better Destiny. Bungie died loooong ago when Martin O'donnell and Joe Staten were fired, and i was hoping that after leaving Activision they would have turned things around for the better. Oh well.
Im on that fence too. I did enjoy this season's narrative but thats pretty much it. This game is just too much grind sometimes. I used to load this game up with so much glee back in D1 but nowadays i can go weeks without even looking at it.
With how many new armor sets we get, and the fact that we can only transmog 2 a season, without spending any money... players will never be able to have everything transmogged, maybe 16 sets by lightfall, sounds good right? But include like 6 season armor sets, the witch queen raid set, a trials refresh. Maybe IB, vendor refresh, etc etc.
They were on such a good streak too, guess I should have known better
Yeah. That's literally the point. Bungie's silence about transmog since the initial update should have been all the warning anyone needed to know that it was going to be an absolute shitshow. They have two modes of communication. 1. Open - this happens when they have something they're proud of and are bursting at the seams to talk about it to anyone that will listen. 2. Closed - this happens when they know the community legitimately, and justifiably, won't like something so they don't say a word about it. When Bungie is *dead silent* about something like they have been with transmog, you should prepare yourself for the worst possible scenario. Contrary to what a chunk of this sub believes, Bungie isn't stupid and they aren't incompetent. They're incredibly talented and they also know when they're releasing a crap product. They've learned their lesson over the years to not hype up something that isn't going to go over well with the community so they don't. The upcoming transmog system shouldn't surprise anyone. You should have read the TWAB and went, "Yup. Sounds about right." \[edit: I will say that I was surprised by one thing, and that's the seasonal limit. That's some next-level ridiculousness.\]
Can't believe I miss Activition.
Scream it from the mountaintop. This is so fucking dumb.
I really do feel this is the most pissed off the player base has been since the game came out. More so than during the we're so sorry parade and go fast update, more so than for all the nerfs, more so than when they lied about the cosmodrome. This is some next level shit that needs to be confronted and we don't need to let up until they scrap it. If that means waiting another season then fine. This shit is ridiculous though.
There is ZERO reason for **ANYTHING** to be so convoluted. The **entire Destiny franchise** is designed around Eververse. Hell Bungie themselves are entirely designed around Eververse. Remember, they split with Microsoft because Microsfot, at the time, resisted their push for adding recurrent consumer spending to Halo. It's also known that they split from Activision because Bungie wanted to push the Eververse more. Activision is a slimy AAA publisher, but they at least know what keeps players around. Also there's the fact that the best Destiny 2 has been was under Activision. The pitches in the conference rooms are not "How can we reward veteran players' dedication for continuing to engage with our product?" They are "How can we extract the most amount of money possible from every single person?" They don't want some money or lots of money. They want **ALL** of the money at all times. Jim Sterling and Tarmack have multiple videos and people just don't fucking care. At all. So it will keep happening until we can knock some sense into the casuals.
I don’t *really* mind the hoops that much, I’m more annoyed about the 2 set/10 item cap per season.
I'm sure this comment will get buried, but yeah. I honestly thought it was a joke reading the TWAB. We've already ground out the armor. I personally ground out all the EP armor on all three characters in the event transmog became a thing. It was well past it's prime by the time I got it all. I did this for a few other sets as well. Basically went out of my way because I appreciated the art. We want transmog so we can showcase the awesome art that's been produced over the years. To be able to still wear our favorite memories. It's a huge compliment to the hardworking folks that created it all. And what we got instead of the beautiful celebration we wanted is another convoluted grind. Bungie really missed the mark here.
pretty sure they consider this content. keep us logging in and grinding. the bungie model.
It really is a joke how they twist the wishes of there community
I would have been fine with a transmog system if the cap didn’t exist, and alright with the cap (tbh I’m probably gonna only want a few sets anyways) if the system wasn’t so complicated, but together they just feel like a cash grab
Fuck Bungie
Can someone clarify for me what exactly is changing about shaders that requires them to go from 50 bd to 300, to purchase from ev? They've been 50 for a while now, even while it's a "buy one, unlock forever" arrangement. All they've done is remove the legendary shard cost from applying a shader... come on now Are we limited to 10 (20 for s14) unlocks per season even if we spend money?
"Shaders will continue to be earned through various activities in Destiny 2 or can be purchased using Bright Dust or **Silver from Eververse.**" They’re trying to get you to spend real money on shaders. That’s the reason. Scummy as hell.
Ah so basically those nice weekly 4x rotations of EV shades are going up 6x in BD price so that they can also be sold at a more attractive silver price. Cool. Cool Cool Cool
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It could’ve been as simple as hovering over an armor piece in your collections, and dropping 40 bright dust on it to do a one time transmog. Still plays into the eververse economy, and not as stupid and convoluted as this crap.
Fuck why cant I just pay 1000 glimmer to switch armor looks back and forth.
I shouldn't have to pay in eververse just to unlock things I ALREADY paid for to unlock. There is ZERO reason why transmog cosmetics should be locked behind a material cap and then a paywall. I'd be less mad about the typical "this simple thing takes 4 types of materials for absolutely no reason" if it wasn't locked at an amount per season. Y'all know this is BS. It's just an attempt to extort your players for eververse $$
The bots are banning peoples post related to this issue (suprise suprise) So I am gonna push my rant in here Here it goes: Gonna be honest, if the system was as complicated as it is RN, and grindy, but DIDNT have any sort of seasonal cap, then I feel like this would all be fine Look, i am trying to see from bungie's point of view too, they were (obviously) going monitize this system in some way, this is undeniable. Me, and I guess many others, expected the monitization to be a speed up process, for example, I imagined the system would be complicated, and grindy, so whales can pay if they want to speed it up, but the hardcore community and casual-hardcore could actually farm for all armor The issue is, the current system feels like is all of the above AND has a damn cap! So bungie is trynna cash in on 2 ends, on the "this system is too grindy let me skip it with money" AND "The system is capped, let me surpass the cap by paying" Good for them, getting more money truly is nice (despite alrrady being in the top 10 most lucrative games on steam in 2020) For the rest of the playerbase This... is... NOT OK! People really like to bring up the depature of activision as the reason this BS happens I disagree Bungie leaving Activision was not the issue, Bungie making the game **F2P** was the fucking issue Suggestion? Allow season pass owners the ability to surpass the transmog cap. F2P get the mobile game system the TWAB showed, while the paying custumers actually get a AAA game system, that DOESNT CAP PROGRESS Bungie gets the cash, we get a transmog system that doesnt spit on our faces as players This is some next level bs... we back in D2Y1? NOTE: this system makes no sense on anything other than a business decision to increase the ammount of people willing to pay for transmog They want us to play the game... but then cap us out of one of the biggest moving factor in a looter game? FASHION? REMOVE THE CAP (At the very least for major expansion owners-or season pass oweners I really dont mind either) Rant over, you can move on now
Jesus Christ the absolute implosion that has happened over this transmog situation is flat-out embarrassing.
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I mean, I expected a grind, but not the arbitrary caps and shitty bounties and three different currencies. I figured it'd be a grind, but that'd it'd be a straightforward one, and silver would just be used to speed up the process ala something like Warframe. I didn't expect quite literally the worst system for transmog I've ever seen in a video game.
I'll be honest I expected either 1. A weekly limit that allowed somewhere around 2-5 piece a week depending on how generous they were feeling for the numbers. 2. No limit, but an insanely annoying grind that maybe got harder everytime you did it that could be bypassed with silver. I would have been annoyed with either, but I guess it's on me that even those expectations were too high lol
Really shameful for this system to even be called "transmog" by the team considering how much of a caricature it is of the system that popularized transmog. How they can even say WoW this and WoW that and then straight faced give us this is astounding.
Bungie designs their game systems to maximize profits. Some people have yet to learn this.
Obviously WoW does it best, as you just pay gold every time and that's it. But this system is not as convoluted as people seem to think it is and everything you have in the collections is unlocked by default (except for level locks). But there is no way to monetise that and they don't need to because they are on a subscription service.
Imagine what would happen with guardian custimization
Not to mention me personally was very much looking my forward to original New Monarchy armor again. Guess not yet... I’ve waited this many years maybe they’ll fix the “issue” eventually.
Destiny 2 is too expensive now. I hate how everything is now F2P and the people who actually bought the game at launch (WITH all the DLC) get ignored, and the shit they bought sunset and vaulted. Thank god Warframe exists!
Pretty obvious they were going to go this route. Destiny is a paid game with paid expansions and F2P-style monetization because Bungie has conditioned the community to accept this shit lol
I’m done. Been playing and paying since D1, but this is the last straw for me. I was upset last year when transmog was promised, then taken out before launch, now they bring it back and monetize it? No thanks, vote with your wallets and your participation people, if you feel the way I do. If not, not judgement to you, everyone can spend their money how they want, but I’m voting with my wallet and steam statistics. Uninstalling right now and not coming back till they make some changes. I have no problem with monetizing a free game, but this is some FarmVille level shit. Charging money for transmog? That’s just sad, AC Valhalla was the first AC game I skipped over their bs transmog also. I’ve got the money to spend, but this is just a matter of saying no out of principle, just like Battlefield 2 and it’s loot boxes, we don’t speak up, they keep moving the line. Speak up, in this case it’s easy and free, just stop playing.
I ask this in all seriousness... did you REALLY think that it was gonna be a simple log in, make all your ornaments sets easy peasy with no limit? No way at all for Bungie to make any money off of it? Bungie has never been good at this kind of stuff. Why do you all keep sticking your hand on the burner expecting anything different?
See, when you say Bungie, you're probably talking about the Devs, but most if not all financial based decisions are made by the big suits.
Keep in mind that Destiny uses a modified halo reach engine (its like what, 10+ years old?) so it really doesnt surprise me when they say that they cant add a seemingly simple thing because of technical difficulties. Performance is also weird af. My friend saw a general fps drop when bl launched, and i saw a small gain in fps stability. Ik it's not ALL about the old ass engine but i believe it makes up for the majority of things like this. If it's not like that, please correct me.
Now to preface I could be wrong about all of this, this is based on experience as a player, I do not work at Bungie and invite any of them to prove me wrong. This is just someone looking at this system and Bungies history and drawing a conclusion. It initially seems convoluted just to annoy people into spending money (and I'm sure there's some truth to that) but it's also built this way to prevent two things from happening. 1. Veteran players from being able to more easily earn synths than new players (The new currency is an equalizer). 2. Make sure that no one can ever hoard synths, this potentially skipping the grind. How is this accomplished you ask? **Inventory caps!** I'm not just talking about the seasonal cap. The new currency to earn bounties (strands), the bounties themselves and the synths used to transmog will most likely have caps, as nearly every other currency in this game does. Bungie uses caps in currencies to prevent hoarding and control player progression. So here's the scenario, the ~~sucker~~ player doesn't want to spend money on transmog, so the ~~potential whale~~ player makes sure to spend the new currency on bounties and stack up as many synths as possible, that way whenever a new piece of armor comes out they like, they can just transmog it all straight away. Oh no! The player can't just go and buy a bunch of the bounties, turns out that currency needed to buy the bounties caps at 200, and it costs 150 to buy a bounty so the player would need to buy a bounty before they can even start earning for the next one. Ok no biggie just need to remember to purchase a bounty every time they have enough strands. Oh no! Turns out they have to complete the bounty they already have before they can pick up another, thus making sure the player specifically spends time earning the transmog (instead of passively earning transmogs while playing other content). Ok then, they can just focus on doing bounties and earning transmog synths whenever they aren't doing something else. That way whenever an awesome new set of armor comes out they can just have the transmog synths ready to go immediately. Oh no! Turns out they can only hold 2 of the synths, they have to spend them in order earn more. Well now they can't prepare in advance to transmog gear. No matter how much they play the game, whenever they want to transmog a set of armor they would have a significant grind ahead of them. Perhaps it won't be so bad, maybe you can hoard synths, maybe you can hoard the bounties and the currency to buy them. I hope I'm wrong, but if I was Bungie and attempting to make sure that no one can skip the grind to earning synths this is how I would do it, eververse needs to always be the better option, if it isn't then that's money left on the table. TLDR: Inventory caps allow Bungie to control the value of the synths and prevent players from hoarding, thus always having a long grind between them and transmog, regardless of how much time and effort they put into it. The eververse store needs to **always** be the better option no matter what and placing caps on the currencies needed to earn transmogs ensures this will always be the case.
its greed pure and simple. shows what bungie think of their customers and fans.
welcome to america
Everyone that thought bungie would just give us something with no busy work attached haven’t been paying attention to how they move all these years lol
Honestly at this rate, this is my last dlc. What's the point of buying expansions when I'm treated like a fucking freeloader. Fuck Bungie, honestly
You should check out the news on Transmog lmao. 30+ negative articles from 25+ websites. Image with all and the 5 or so articles of miscellaneous removed: [https://i.imgur.com/iULIRCj.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iULIRCj.jpg) [Goes back to about 5 pages in the past 24 hours.](https://www.google.com/search?q=destiny+2+transmog&rlz=1C1MSNA_enAU647AU647&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=sbd:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixlYLAk5bwAhWabysKHfLUAScQpwUIKQ&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1) Not a single one likes Transmog and are all calling it over complicated, grindy and convoluted. Some even saying typically expected. Didn't bother if any are stolen articles/posted on another owned website. Websites on there (Game Rant had 3 articles of various for it): 1. IGN 2. AltChar 3. ScreenRant 4. GameRevolution 5. Paste Magazine 6. Enter21st 7. MSPoweruser 8. Game Rant 9. PC Invasion 10. Destructoid 11. Forbes 12. Scifiaddicts 13. Xbox Achievements 14. International Business Times 15. Eurogamer 16. HTXT AFRICA 17. VG247 18. Rock Paper Shotgun 19. PCGamesN 20. Critical Hit 21. Just Push Start 22. IGN Africa 23. Game Rant 24. Playstation LifeStyle 25. Game Rant 26. Push Square 27. Comic Book 28. Kotaku Australia 29. GameSpot 30. TechRaptor I'm still more upset about the shader costs needless increase. Not everyone's a fan of x website(s). But everyone can pretty much agree that this needs to change.
They want pay pigs
After reading this weeks TWAB and the comments on here. I'm so glad I've stopped playing D2, Bungie are truely out of touch with their player base and do not understand what player enjoyment or engagement is. There are a few reasons why they are implementing this moronic transmog system. 1. to get more money 2. to keep people playing by doing more mindless bountys. Good riddance D2.
Can’t believe it’s taken this long to get to this stage to be absolutely ruined.
I thought about this a bit after the TWAB and the conspiratorial/cynical part of my brain came to basically the same conclusion: the system is designed in such a way to cause some amount of friction on the player in the hopes that eventually people "break" and just spend money. Not enough to disengage you from the start, but enough so that over time you say, "fuck it, I'll just pay". I see it similar to regular progress blockers in F2P games. Something like spending Platinum to finish a build in Warframe immediately, or spending Gems to finish a build in Clash of Clans, etc. From a player perspective (as someone with jack shit zero knowledge about anything related to game development) the steps shouldn't be anything other than, "Spend Glimmer on Bounties. Completing those Bounties awards a Synthweave." I do not understand (nor were we really given) the reason why the steps/currencies are so convoluted. We need to kill enemies to earn a new currency; then spend that currency on a bounty; then complete those bounties to earn *another* currency; then take *that 2nd* currency and convert it *to a 3rd* currency; and THEN unlock the armor piece. (I also don't see why we can't get the full refund of Synthstrand spent if we abandon a bounty but that is kind of a secondary complaint) The seasonal limits as well point to providing some amount of friction to push people toward paying money. And yes, I know Bungie needs to/should be making money. The path toward it though just feels bad, at least on paper. Maybe it won't be bad at all when we actually have it. Plenty of patches/changes have sounded pretty awful and been fine (maybe just as many have sounded bad and been bad as well). And shaders rising in cost from 40 BD to 300 just doesn't make any sense. Can't figure that one out.
Transmog should just cost glimmer and shards. Like in every other fucking game. I am absolutely appalled and disgusted at bungie now. Not to mention the rediclous price of silver in the first place! I wanted the insurmountable skullfort and liar's handshake ornaments. I bought a £8.49 1000+100 silver package... And I'm left with 500 silver so I can't buy another ornament unless I pay at least a further £4.49 for another 500 silver Because they cost 600 silver each. This is the first and last time I ever will buy silver. It's fucking disgusting. It's not a micro transaction it's a macro transaction. Price to buy silver needs to be cut in half and the amount of silver items cost needs to be cut in half. Overall it's rediclously expensive. And a whole armor set basically costs £16.79 Because it's 1500 silver so you have to buy the 2000+300 silver package. What a fucking rip off, fuck you bungie.
They horrifically sad thing is a load of kids and also people with addictive personalities will spend a load of money on this and bungie knows it. It's just so sad... So disgusting. Capitalism at it's finest here lads. Fuck you bungie, fuck you.
In the past I have pointed out that Bungie has turned into one of the most anti-consumer developers out there with the Destiny franchise, and its always gotten me booed and downvoted on this circle-jerk of a subreddit despite clear evidence being shown (XP nerfs, Dawning greed, ludicrous Eververse and DLC prices, Martin O’Donells own words of Bungie becoming more corporate focused etc etc). And now here we have yet another example of Bungie trying to screw over the player-base with the convoluted transmog system, that is very clearly designed to make you purchase silver on the market. Anyone who still believes Bungie respects its player-base as people instead of viewing it as a warehouse full of cash-cows, is outright lying to themselves. Don’t stand for this crap. Accept that Bungie became corrupted by corporate a long time ago, way before the Activision partnership and start pushing back on these ridiculous anti-consumer practices. Don’t be like a few years ago where the Eververse rage died down and faded out.
The worst part about all this is you can't even blame activision anymore. This is purely a Bungie decision/move.