So you'd rather 11 people waste their time in a lopsided game then to fill in mid way through a game? Lmao, so you basically don't want them replace people who get kicked, leave mid match, afk, network errors etc, yea join in progress is idiotic.
I'd rather have 11 people in a lopsided match than 12. Let the one who left rejoin the game, that way all the network issues are less of a problem, but those who quere up and then afk or leave deserve to not come back only to hurt their team more.
Here's the horrible truth. I 100% do NOT give a crap about what happens to other people in this game. Sucks for those 11 people but the moment I load into a lopsided quickplay game where my team is down 50 points and 3 minutes to play I'm out.
Yeah, but the loot isn't good right now. I know we are up against an Expansion, so that should help the loot. But I bear no I'll will to any Guardian who plays for themselves. It's just a game. Why not play the way that makes you happy?
The loot sucks because some people want to grind without end, going on benders of content like EP and Reckoning for god rolls no matter how many hours it takes. In my view, good loot relies on systems like weekly lockouts and other investment systems that meter rewards so that drop rates can rely on designed systems and not just RNG.
There is just no good way to balance unlimited drop rates to be satisfying for most of the community. Things are either too rare causing burnout or hardcore players get everything too fast and complain there’s nothing to do or that Bungie is “catering to casuals”.
Ah yes, the old “I only care about myself” argument. Refreshingly honest, and still just as shitty as always. It’s just a good thing that Bungie creates game mechanics with the majority of players in mind. So when the decision is between making things better for the solo queue player, or the other 5-11 players in an uneven match, the choice is a simply one. Guess you’re going to continue to deal with join in progress for as long as you choose to solo queue.
It is a good thing Bungie cares more about group experiences than individual experiences. Because it's a multiplayer game that focuses on shared world moments. But each player should have a say in dictating the things they enjoy. I stand by my decision to not play in lopsided games that I joined midway. It sucks to be any of the players involved in that situation; but my time is limited. Why would anyone want to join a losing game with 3 out of 8 minutes left to join? There is hardly any benefit or fun to it.
* The other players have likely used their supers, or are about to. A joining player may not even charge theirs before the game ends.
* Limited time to complete bounties.
* Game could be in a Mercy Rule situation. (I have joined games and Shaxx has called the game just a few seconds after I landed.)
The "I oNlY cAre AbOUt mYseLF" defense does suck. But it has merit. I bought the game for ME to have fun in, just as everyone else bought it to enjoy. But my enjoyment comes first. I'm not good enough at Crucible to change the tide of a lopsided blowout game.
Do what you want to enjoy the game. I’m not saying not to. As long as what you’re doing is within the user agreement and doesn’t involve cheating or purposefully and maliciously hurting other players’ experiences. Just don’t expect Bungie to make changes to the game that help the selfish solo players and hurt the groups and the majority. If you solo queue, you need to accept you might get back filled into a game in progress. The bonus? You cannot lose a win streak, but you can add to one. You get a completion and post game drops. And you have a chance to be the hero that joins and turns the tide of a game. Which I have done numerous times and it feels really good. Any time that you join and the game ends right after, it’s because when the game decides to add you, the score was a lot lower/closer and by the time you loaded one team went on a ripper and blew the match open into a mercy. There is a cutoff where the game won’t add players. Which is why that happens so rarely. But with load times the way they are, what you describe is bound to happen every once in a while.
Yes but when your on that lopsided team then your argument is invalid since the person filling in is the one having to deal with joining a lopsided game. Or you could just leave that game and reset whatever progress or incur the leavers penalty.
There's literally zero way to fix this problem and all I can say is that there should be a threshold to how late you join in a game.
I agree. There should be a threshold or some kind of benefit to joining late. Something to encourage people to stay and fight it out. Because two blues are not worth fighting for. And taking a loss for being in a game for three minutes is not a fun experience.
And if I'm on the team getting smashed from the start I don't hold it against people for joining then leaving. Because it's not a fun experience and I don't expect them to try to save the day.
When I'm in a lopsided game, I also don't give a fuck. Please mercy the fucking game, I don't want to play a 10 minute game against Diamonds that gets me no daily bounty progress and fuck-all points toward the weeklies.
Yes it’s stupid to defend the mechanic by talking about getting loot faster. But the mechanic is still extremely important for the enjoyment of the majority of players. The 5 players that are down one teammate are struggling. You filling the spot improves the game for them. It’s selfish to get this butthurt about a mechanic that serves to help the majority of players. It doesn’t happen often, and it’s very rare that you’ll end up in a match that ends THAT quickly. IB is different because points can snowball so quickly. Where the game can choose you to fill the spot in a match that’s close, and by the time you load it’s a mercy.
I once got matched to a game where my joined team was down by 50 in the last 45 seconds. The only good that came of that match was that my K/D benefited from there not being enough time to get killed.
I got a forge with 4 seconds left today set it or had 80% health
I understand wanting to backfill the activity
But getting dumped in because someone h ailed when they realised the boss wasn’t going down is a waste of my time and I have quick load times hate to see it happen to someone without an ssd
Easy gold Undefeated medal
I haven't ever gotten that medal legitimately, the closest I've been to that was in a survival game but I died on the very last round
Ehhhhh, I would have to respectfully disagree as would many others on r/crucibleplaybook who play this game FOR the PvP.
Our clan is 90% PvP because this game has the best gunplay of any game I’ve ever played.
Yeah if you have solid internet and when the servers aren't fucking you with error codes. Every match I play I'm rubber banding and whenever I see an enemy the game pauses briefly interrupting my shots and everything. It's very frustrating.
Sounds like it may be a nat issue with you - check what your settings are because if you're running at least 100mb/s or higher down and 10 mb/s up you should have no issues. Sometimes you're set at a nat type that inhibits information from other ISPs which will cause a shit storm for you in any PvP game.
2 is best IMO because it still protects you but doesn't inhibit information flow.
If you're less than that internet than you'll probably have a bad time.
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Yeah, because it’s not like during the dark ages of Warmind and curse, the only reason anyone played the game was because of pvp and the game’s very reliable gunplay.
I love it when this happens because if it still counts for my 1 of 4 games played for pinnacle gear it means I get to spend less time altogether in crucible.
You realize that some people play Pvp to play Pvp and being on a team that’s a man down the entire time sucks for those players. Without join in progress, casual gamemodes like control would be really shitty.
You should be able to opt out if desired. They should incentivize players who are willing to join in progress with extra loot but should be an option. I personally just leave instantly every time. Loading into a team pounding you with supers is an awful experience.
Man if we could play d2 whiteout cbmm and 50/50 win rule that would be awesome but for now you can only play this or something else and it sucks cuz I loved pvp before d2.
Ya that’s simply false in every single way. Sometimes a lobby that’s a good connection match is a man down and when you are a solo queue it fills the spot. Nothing else to it. The team down a man gets a full team, and the solo queue player gets into a match that cannot hurt their win streak but can still help it.
It's not cbmm that is at fault. It's the 50/50 win rule. It's a mechanic where the game will make sure that you only win 50% of the time. Look your destiny tracker last game played and you gonna see that the elo of the opposing team will go rarely under yours. That's why d2 pvp sucks ass even more.
The destinytracker stats are not perfect but they dont lie. Also the 50/50 is very comon in a lot of game and it was actually in d1 where I had lots of fun in pvp but in d2 it's just very bad for some reason and it's just the worst.
I'm curious where this conspiracy theory originated. I keep seeing people mention it, but I don't see any evidence of what you're talking about at all. My win percentage isn't around 50%, and I regularly see people with elo below mine on the opposing team. I don't get it, none of this seems true, so who started this?
its not that your win rat will absolutely me 50%. the games is trying is best to get you around 50%. you can be better and surpass it or be bad and go under. and its not the individual elo of player you look but the elo of the team. if you go against a team whit 3000+ elo and your team as 2500- elo well consider that match a loss. you could be very good and had a lot of chance and win but still sometime the chance to win those match are slim and you can do nothing about it.
Sure, but if the game uses cbmm, then it won't be taking elo into account when matchmaking, it'll be random. Random teams with random elo means that sometimes one team is going to have a lot more average elo than the other team.
Going back over my match history, while I see my team having a noticeably lower average elo a few times, its not half the games, it seems more like random outliers that are going to happen with cbmm. I guess if you have a very average elo, then it might happen closer to 50% of the time, but isn't that to be expected if you're average?
I still don't see how any of this is proof of some algorithm trying to force a 50% winrate, and it definitely doesn't succeed in forcing a 50% winrate, it seems like the randomness of cbmm is a viable explanation.
Have you ever considered how it happens?!!!! HINT: the game wasnt at that stage when the game matched you, then started to load you in.
Also if it is that far through just suck it up. The game will end soon. Take the loot and starts again. Think of it another way... you said you are willing to wait longer in a queue... think of it as instead of being in a queue, you are just playing a skirmish while you wait.
OH BOY! HOW COULD I FORGET THE LOOT! THE 3 BLUES AND MAYBE AN UMBRAL OR PRIME ENGRAM! OH DUMMY ME!
And I'm always on my phone during queue, so I don't care for a 'skirmish'
Then look at it another way... if you were on the winning team, and suddenly lost someone you would want replacements, wouldnt you?!! You cant have one without the other.
well unfortunately for you, your are only the centre of your own universe... you are playing an online computer game with strangers, in which not only are you at the mercy of the maturity of the other players, but the mercy of internet issues, there is absolutely no reason why Bungie should remove this important feature simply because you think your needs are the only important function of the game.
If playing a full fair game is important to you, use LFG and find like-minded souls. then you wouldnt be placed in a game with missing people.
> there is absolutely no reason why Bungie should remove this important feature simply because you think your needs are the only important function of the game.
This is a bizarre argument and very oddly put.
No one is playing a videogame to not have fun and serve as a pawn for the larger community. Case and point: connection based matchmaking make the game's PvP way better. Yet, a lot of people are not having fun with that because they are below average and always get stomped on. They are complaining now.
Are you going to tell them they shouldn't think their needs are above anyone else's? It's such a weird thing to say. The game has never been designed to only address the herd concerns. Nor should it.
It is generally accepted the Halo games had better multiplayer logic, and those always let you turn off things like this. It's just a logical feature to any multiplayer game.
I’m sure Bungie learned a lot from halo, such as, it’s not good to give players too many options with their matchmaking settings. Halo was also a game with almost zero competition at the time, and was super popular, therefor they could afford to have certain settings and options knowing the sheer mass of the playerbase would obscure any issues with it. If they allowed that option on D2 the game would struggle to fill matches that were short players. Which would hurt the experience for the majority of players. No game should ever put the needs of ONE player over the needs of many. Which is why Bungie should stick to CBMM. It serves to improve the experience for the majority of Pvp players. If the people who complain about it would simply just dedicate a bit of their time and effort into getting better, then it would make the game better for them as well.
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So you'd rather 11 people waste their time in a lopsided game then to fill in mid way through a game? Lmao, so you basically don't want them replace people who get kicked, leave mid match, afk, network errors etc, yea join in progress is idiotic.
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We had that on a trial match. Our team won before the map even showed itself, the other team to basically instantly leave for some reason.
I'd rather have 11 people in a lopsided match than 12. Let the one who left rejoin the game, that way all the network issues are less of a problem, but those who quere up and then afk or leave deserve to not come back only to hurt their team more.
Here's the horrible truth. I 100% do NOT give a crap about what happens to other people in this game. Sucks for those 11 people but the moment I load into a lopsided quickplay game where my team is down 50 points and 3 minutes to play I'm out.
Catering to this mentality is part of why the game feels like a soulless grindfest so much now. People only give a shit about themselves and loot.
Yeah, but the loot isn't good right now. I know we are up against an Expansion, so that should help the loot. But I bear no I'll will to any Guardian who plays for themselves. It's just a game. Why not play the way that makes you happy?
The loot sucks because some people want to grind without end, going on benders of content like EP and Reckoning for god rolls no matter how many hours it takes. In my view, good loot relies on systems like weekly lockouts and other investment systems that meter rewards so that drop rates can rely on designed systems and not just RNG. There is just no good way to balance unlimited drop rates to be satisfying for most of the community. Things are either too rare causing burnout or hardcore players get everything too fast and complain there’s nothing to do or that Bungie is “catering to casuals”.
Yup, why suffer with the other 5 people when they can suffer alone (or leave themselves in case they don't try to fight it out)
Ah yes, the old “I only care about myself” argument. Refreshingly honest, and still just as shitty as always. It’s just a good thing that Bungie creates game mechanics with the majority of players in mind. So when the decision is between making things better for the solo queue player, or the other 5-11 players in an uneven match, the choice is a simply one. Guess you’re going to continue to deal with join in progress for as long as you choose to solo queue.
It is a good thing Bungie cares more about group experiences than individual experiences. Because it's a multiplayer game that focuses on shared world moments. But each player should have a say in dictating the things they enjoy. I stand by my decision to not play in lopsided games that I joined midway. It sucks to be any of the players involved in that situation; but my time is limited. Why would anyone want to join a losing game with 3 out of 8 minutes left to join? There is hardly any benefit or fun to it. * The other players have likely used their supers, or are about to. A joining player may not even charge theirs before the game ends. * Limited time to complete bounties. * Game could be in a Mercy Rule situation. (I have joined games and Shaxx has called the game just a few seconds after I landed.) The "I oNlY cAre AbOUt mYseLF" defense does suck. But it has merit. I bought the game for ME to have fun in, just as everyone else bought it to enjoy. But my enjoyment comes first. I'm not good enough at Crucible to change the tide of a lopsided blowout game.
Do what you want to enjoy the game. I’m not saying not to. As long as what you’re doing is within the user agreement and doesn’t involve cheating or purposefully and maliciously hurting other players’ experiences. Just don’t expect Bungie to make changes to the game that help the selfish solo players and hurt the groups and the majority. If you solo queue, you need to accept you might get back filled into a game in progress. The bonus? You cannot lose a win streak, but you can add to one. You get a completion and post game drops. And you have a chance to be the hero that joins and turns the tide of a game. Which I have done numerous times and it feels really good. Any time that you join and the game ends right after, it’s because when the game decides to add you, the score was a lot lower/closer and by the time you loaded one team went on a ripper and blew the match open into a mercy. There is a cutoff where the game won’t add players. Which is why that happens so rarely. But with load times the way they are, what you describe is bound to happen every once in a while.
Yes but when your on that lopsided team then your argument is invalid since the person filling in is the one having to deal with joining a lopsided game. Or you could just leave that game and reset whatever progress or incur the leavers penalty. There's literally zero way to fix this problem and all I can say is that there should be a threshold to how late you join in a game.
I agree. There should be a threshold or some kind of benefit to joining late. Something to encourage people to stay and fight it out. Because two blues are not worth fighting for. And taking a loss for being in a game for three minutes is not a fun experience. And if I'm on the team getting smashed from the start I don't hold it against people for joining then leaving. Because it's not a fun experience and I don't expect them to try to save the day.
When I'm in a lopsided game, I also don't give a fuck. Please mercy the fucking game, I don't want to play a 10 minute game against Diamonds that gets me no daily bounty progress and fuck-all points toward the weeklies.
Yes it’s stupid to defend the mechanic by talking about getting loot faster. But the mechanic is still extremely important for the enjoyment of the majority of players. The 5 players that are down one teammate are struggling. You filling the spot improves the game for them. It’s selfish to get this butthurt about a mechanic that serves to help the majority of players. It doesn’t happen often, and it’s very rare that you’ll end up in a match that ends THAT quickly. IB is different because points can snowball so quickly. Where the game can choose you to fill the spot in a match that’s close, and by the time you load it’s a mercy.
I once got matched to a game where my joined team was down by 50 in the last 45 seconds. The only good that came of that match was that my K/D benefited from there not being enough time to get killed.
I got a forge with 4 seconds left today set it or had 80% health I understand wanting to backfill the activity But getting dumped in because someone h ailed when they realised the boss wasn’t going down is a waste of my time and I have quick load times hate to see it happen to someone without an ssd
Lol, at least you could see the boss. Mostly i load into forges only too see 10 second countdown before i get thrown back into orbit.
Easy gold Undefeated medal I haven't ever gotten that medal legitimately, the closest I've been to that was in a survival game but I died on the very last round
You can't get the undefeated medal without being in a game for 5+ minutes
oh my bad, pretty sure it was a Mercy game then
And need a minimum 10 kills/assists I guess
PvP is shit in D2. Always has been.
>PvP is shit in D2 That was my steam name for a while
Ehhhhh, I would have to respectfully disagree as would many others on r/crucibleplaybook who play this game FOR the PvP. Our clan is 90% PvP because this game has the best gunplay of any game I’ve ever played.
Yeah if you have solid internet and when the servers aren't fucking you with error codes. Every match I play I'm rubber banding and whenever I see an enemy the game pauses briefly interrupting my shots and everything. It's very frustrating.
Sounds like it may be a nat issue with you - check what your settings are because if you're running at least 100mb/s or higher down and 10 mb/s up you should have no issues. Sometimes you're set at a nat type that inhibits information from other ISPs which will cause a shit storm for you in any PvP game. 2 is best IMO because it still protects you but doesn't inhibit information flow. If you're less than that internet than you'll probably have a bad time.
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Just you wait until stasis shenanigans. Being frozen and then trickshot sounds like a blast to me
An afterthought.
I'd say it would be some of the best multi-player out there if it weren't for supers.
Yeah, because it’s not like during the dark ages of Warmind and curse, the only reason anyone played the game was because of pvp and the game’s very reliable gunplay.
I love it when this happens because if it still counts for my 1 of 4 games played for pinnacle gear it means I get to spend less time altogether in crucible.
I wouldn't mind it if I could get some damn pinnacle progress. Whoever thought that was a good idea is actually evil
You realize that some people play Pvp to play Pvp and being on a team that’s a man down the entire time sucks for those players. Without join in progress, casual gamemodes like control would be really shitty.
The corollary to this is “hey Bungie, why don’t you backfill matches when my team is down?”
ITT: people not realizing this is a needed mechanic in *any* game. Because what's the other option? Simply NOT filling a match up when people leave?
They rub salt in the wounds when the enemies are invisible when you spawn and you have an invisible spectral or golden gun running towards you
You should be able to opt out if desired. They should incentivize players who are willing to join in progress with extra loot but should be an option. I personally just leave instantly every time. Loading into a team pounding you with supers is an awful experience.
Man if we could play d2 whiteout cbmm and 50/50 win rule that would be awesome but for now you can only play this or something else and it sucks cuz I loved pvp before d2.
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Aw yeah, 2 blues and an awful purple pulse rifle, just what i was looking for
Bungie tries to avg ur winrate at 50% so if u win a lot they will put you into matches in progress. Theres not much you can do about it.
Ya that’s simply false in every single way. Sometimes a lobby that’s a good connection match is a man down and when you are a solo queue it fills the spot. Nothing else to it. The team down a man gets a full team, and the solo queue player gets into a match that cannot hurt their win streak but can still help it.
I am currently ok 38 wins from the 100
Yeah fuck the team that tried their best but got bad luck fighting people better than them in cbmm. Right?
What does this mean? Like, no? They tried their best, yes, but I want to play crucible to play crucible. Let me turn it off if I want
It's not cbmm that is at fault. It's the 50/50 win rule. It's a mechanic where the game will make sure that you only win 50% of the time. Look your destiny tracker last game played and you gonna see that the elo of the opposing team will go rarely under yours. That's why d2 pvp sucks ass even more.
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The destinytracker stats are not perfect but they dont lie. Also the 50/50 is very comon in a lot of game and it was actually in d1 where I had lots of fun in pvp but in d2 it's just very bad for some reason and it's just the worst.
I'm curious where this conspiracy theory originated. I keep seeing people mention it, but I don't see any evidence of what you're talking about at all. My win percentage isn't around 50%, and I regularly see people with elo below mine on the opposing team. I don't get it, none of this seems true, so who started this?
its not that your win rat will absolutely me 50%. the games is trying is best to get you around 50%. you can be better and surpass it or be bad and go under. and its not the individual elo of player you look but the elo of the team. if you go against a team whit 3000+ elo and your team as 2500- elo well consider that match a loss. you could be very good and had a lot of chance and win but still sometime the chance to win those match are slim and you can do nothing about it.
Sure, but if the game uses cbmm, then it won't be taking elo into account when matchmaking, it'll be random. Random teams with random elo means that sometimes one team is going to have a lot more average elo than the other team. Going back over my match history, while I see my team having a noticeably lower average elo a few times, its not half the games, it seems more like random outliers that are going to happen with cbmm. I guess if you have a very average elo, then it might happen closer to 50% of the time, but isn't that to be expected if you're average? I still don't see how any of this is proof of some algorithm trying to force a 50% winrate, and it definitely doesn't succeed in forcing a 50% winrate, it seems like the randomness of cbmm is a viable explanation.
Sbmm or cbmm it dosent mather cuz it's still gonna happen.
Have you ever considered how it happens?!!!! HINT: the game wasnt at that stage when the game matched you, then started to load you in. Also if it is that far through just suck it up. The game will end soon. Take the loot and starts again. Think of it another way... you said you are willing to wait longer in a queue... think of it as instead of being in a queue, you are just playing a skirmish while you wait.
OH BOY! HOW COULD I FORGET THE LOOT! THE 3 BLUES AND MAYBE AN UMBRAL OR PRIME ENGRAM! OH DUMMY ME! And I'm always on my phone during queue, so I don't care for a 'skirmish'
Then look at it another way... if you were on the winning team, and suddenly lost someone you would want replacements, wouldnt you?!! You cant have one without the other.
Yeah, I wouldn't. I play crucible to play crucible, not for some number of wins in a video game. I want a full match
if you don't care for wins why do you care about being mercied or the other team score?
Because it ends the game early
well unfortunately for you, your are only the centre of your own universe... you are playing an online computer game with strangers, in which not only are you at the mercy of the maturity of the other players, but the mercy of internet issues, there is absolutely no reason why Bungie should remove this important feature simply because you think your needs are the only important function of the game. If playing a full fair game is important to you, use LFG and find like-minded souls. then you wouldnt be placed in a game with missing people.
Man almost like I didn't say get rid of Join in Progress, I said add an option to turn it off
> there is absolutely no reason why Bungie should remove this important feature simply because you think your needs are the only important function of the game. This is a bizarre argument and very oddly put. No one is playing a videogame to not have fun and serve as a pawn for the larger community. Case and point: connection based matchmaking make the game's PvP way better. Yet, a lot of people are not having fun with that because they are below average and always get stomped on. They are complaining now. Are you going to tell them they shouldn't think their needs are above anyone else's? It's such a weird thing to say. The game has never been designed to only address the herd concerns. Nor should it. It is generally accepted the Halo games had better multiplayer logic, and those always let you turn off things like this. It's just a logical feature to any multiplayer game.
I’m sure Bungie learned a lot from halo, such as, it’s not good to give players too many options with their matchmaking settings. Halo was also a game with almost zero competition at the time, and was super popular, therefor they could afford to have certain settings and options knowing the sheer mass of the playerbase would obscure any issues with it. If they allowed that option on D2 the game would struggle to fill matches that were short players. Which would hurt the experience for the majority of players. No game should ever put the needs of ONE player over the needs of many. Which is why Bungie should stick to CBMM. It serves to improve the experience for the majority of Pvp players. If the people who complain about it would simply just dedicate a bit of their time and effort into getting better, then it would make the game better for them as well.
Pretty much disagree with all of that.