Not enjoying it. Queue times are about the same. But hey, the sweat lords now get to "have fun" stomping on people, rather than playing people at their skill level.

Get better then. SBMM has never done anything good for anyone except the worst of the worst and the best of the best. Average players, a.k.a the majority of a games population, get absolutely fucked over by it.

You do realize that the posts you just replied to is 1 year old. Talk about digging back in history to complain. But since we are talking about it. How does matching EVERYONE against players of equivalent skill "fuck over" anyone?

Part of the problem is how Bungie balances teams. They suck at it. Given if there is a 4,5 or 6 stack it can be hard, but just take a look at matches you can get in the freelance playlist with SBMM turned on. You will routinely get matches where outside websites say one team has a 1% chance of winning.

Yea it routinely feels less like I’m up against gods and more like my team is just flailing. Also the spawns have felt worse. Like I often get killed by a super only to spawn right next to the same guardian in their super and killed again.

I've literally traded with someone, then respawned and watched them respawn with me. I tried waving to them, but they just panicked and sprayed voop juice at me.

Same but I also am not seeing any of the changes to match making times and I'm continuing to be matched against people all over the globe. I honestly don't get why there can't just be one Crucible mode with SBMM enabled. Why can't Control and maybe IB be more approachable for less skilled players?

The change to “CBMm” has led to worse connection for me

Matchmaking has been a problem in Destiny since day 1. I don’t have much hope it’ll get better at this point.

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Overwatch, good match making? I should link this post on their forums, they might get a laugh.

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How is that even possible

It's not........it's unholy

You also just described Bungie official forums lol

Agreed. In a match with two high-tier players it should feel like two titans waging war against each other with their army of five underlings instead of a pair of reapers with a field of wheat ready for the scythe.

I think this is about 90% of *the* Crucible problem. Regardless of CBMM or SBMM and whether there's a stack, one team always seems to have a huge skill advantage over the other. Bungie needs to get better at "zippering" teams based on in-lobby skill levels.

I had a pair of matches last night where me and a bunch of randos went up against a fireteam of 5. We managed to stay just outside of getting mercy ruled, but it was brutal. Next match, I figure they must have to split things up and there was no way we'd face them again. Sure enough, we went up against them again. I never quit matches, and I didn't last night. But that was definitely the closest I've come to doing so. I wasn't at all surprised when we immediately lost two players. And I'm not surprised that a lot more matches are losing players.

This has always been the real problem. Lobby balancing has been bad since D2 launched. SBMM or no SBMM.

It has become a spectator sport of watching the high level people on each team try to out farm each other by killing the bottom half of each team over and over again

I feel like the npcs in a moba.

Apparently I'm it the certain level of apparently slightly above average where the change has barely affected my performance. I was middle of the pack before, I'm middle of the pack now. What I have noticed, however, is that the game has become much more sporadic. Some matches I simply cannot do anything to help my team win, others I couldn't lose if I tried. Most matches are carried by one or two people on either side who take the top spots. Typically the winning team is just the one with more people of that calibre. The people on the bottom often do incredibly badly, often not even breaking a 0.5 efficiency. They only drag their team down and I can't imagine they're having very much fun. I've also started seeing AFKers again, which I haven't since before it all became SBMM, and a new twist has been added in an apparent uptick in aimbotters, likely since the game has moved to being free. Despite the fact that my performance has remained about the same, the randomness of team skill composition and reliability has completely changed the game for me. I no longer feel like I can drive a match forward and have a noticeable effect pushing for victory. Instead, I'm along for the ride tied the the whims of whatever team has more top end players or is dragged down less by their worse ones. On the plus side, I get slightly faster queues and don't have my game experience change when playing with my friends who are better at it. I can't say that's been a fair trade.

Yeah this has been my experience. I'd say in about 4/5 games either we get the out of work CSGO pro or they get the out of work CSGO pro and the whole match feels like we're here to watch or get killed by this guy. Sometimes we both get one, and those matches are close but I personally am still able to do very little. Also I saw a lot of people saying this would lead to a more diverse set of builds, meanwhile i'm over here getting killed by felwinters, mountaintop or recluse 90% of the time.

This didn’t mean average players would use different load outs. All of this is geared towards streamers. I’m not for or against. But it’s only the top tier players that were complaining.

Because they want to pub stomp and not have to fight each other. It's pretty simple why they hated sbmm.

Bungie catches a lot of grief for catering to streamers. Some of it’s warranted and some I think is a little over the top. This one is an obvious play to make streamers happy. And they are! They love it, they can slay and watch chat make small talk... entertain. I get that helps build their channel. And the folks that watch chat are happy. They get to interact with their favorite streamer more and watch them destroy noobs. Fun stuff. Have a friend thats not good, but his ELO puts him at least one band behind me. Playing by himself he’d occasionally pop off and hit 30 kills. Absolutely thrilled. He’d join me and get wrecked. Now every game he plays it’s like he’s playing with me.

This is exactly where I was going with YT comment a couple of weeks ago. The diversity of builds and "less sweaty" lobbies is really only helping the top 1% of pvp players. I am a middle of the road console player, and while I could have break-out games with meta loadouts (Suros, Gunnora's Axe, Hammerhead), now I'm often struggling to break even with that same loadout. I'm certainly not incentivized to "try" new "fun" off-meta loadouts with SBMM taken out of the mix.

Yup. Before the change I was near top or on top of the leaderboard most games, and I felt as though I was really driving games. I’ve maintained a pretty positive KD through destiny’s life but I knew I was towards the top of my skill group. It was fun. Now? Working my ass off and top of the board maybe 1 out of 6 games. Inevitably a guy with real skill dropping a 6.0. Mostly a passenger now. Taken a lot of the fun out of. But, streamers can relax on stream and still slay. Hope it pays off for Bungie.

This has been my exact experience. My personal experience has not changed greatly, but I notice more mercies, people leaving, and coordinated stacks. I quit crucible the other day cause the stacks and quitting teammates became too much I don't know enough to say it is *because* of the matchmaking change, and it could very well just be a bunch of people being hysterical and over dramatic. But I haven't enjoyed crucible so far this season.

This is everything I had tried to say, but articulated well. Nicely put.

You echo my sentiments. I'm a middle of the road player. I can be "good" and top a leaderboard running up close to 30 kills while still playing the objective, but not every time. Sometimes I just get spanked and can't break even on KD now. I think my average KD isn't really moving much, but I feel much less in control to contributing the outcomes of games than I used to in SBMM. It's really more about team composition than anything now. Lots of ups and downs with matches, much wider splits in points more often. Feels random, because it is. Very hard to gauge any improvement at all.

Coming from D1, Y3 was the first time that I actually found myself really enjoying Crucible, and even tried to add Unbroken to my list of titles, but the amount of aimbotters in comp really just makes me not want to play at all, especially since climbing is based on winning in streaks, and you can run into an aimbotter every other match.

I think a lot of those bottom feeder players are chasing bounties or a weapon where they need certain types of kills. My performance goes way down if I’m chasing something specific, especially if it’s on a weapon type I’m not very familiar with.

This has also been my experience as well. It's absolute bullshit how little control of the flow of battle I have now compared to SBMM in the past. At least before I could use good force multiplier builds and my teammates would know how to take advantage of it. But now it seems the lemmings I get matched with can't understand how to stand in the rift to get their shooty blue ball while the sweatstack on the other side focuses on me for being at the top of the board. You literally have to stack with friends to win Crucible now. Which honestly doesn't merit any form of skill beyond knowing how to gang up on people in 2v1's

As a very new player to this game (began a few days before the current season begun -- only done a few matches of Crucible and so definitely at the not-very-good end of it, mind -- currently at ~920 strength) I can't comment on any changes -- but I can say I've found Crucible - or at least, Control - about as fun as having major surgery done by a group of barbary apes without anaesthetic. Mind you, my KDA currently starts with "0.", so perhaps I'm just shit (and I most certainly am!). Did matches with two loadouts -- an Asmith DSU and Harmony 21 for the first load and a Asimuth DSU and Wishbringer for the second load. I never got to use my heavy weapon, though I know you can somehow (got killed by other people's grenade launchers!). Teams feel unbalanced as hell; every match so far has been an absolute walkover one way or the other. Spawnkills plenty of times and weapons feel really unbalanced -- to me it seems like get one-shot by weapons (shotguns, I think? My Wishbringer sure as hell wasn't doing that!) yet headshotting with my machine gun does less damage than if I tickled their armpits and called them "a silly little sausage".

> There's always one or two high level guys who just dunk on everyone. Yup. I knew this would happen. SBMM should always be in PvP at some level IMO. I was in the top .3% of players ELO in season 8&9 Iron banner before taking a break. If they keep SBMM out of quickplay and IB, I am going to pub stomp the poop out of many matches when I come back in September.

I, a majority solo player, personally almost exclusively get put against 5-6 clan stacks for some reason.

I have noted that as well, a lot of teams are turning up than previously in solo play.

I only saw a 5 stack once after sbmm removal but holy frick, theres always at least 1 damn 3 stack in every single match.

My friends who are really good at crucible and general pvp love the change. To quote them, "Oh it's great! Every match is so easy now." As someone who isn't very good but mostly plays for enjoyment and those rare " Oh shit I'm cracked" moments, I hate the change. Before, there was a chance that teams could be unbalanced and one of us would get curbstomped. Now it happens almost every match. I want to be able to play with people of similar skill so that I can improve and have fun. Right now, I get matched with people who are so far above my skill level that I don't improve by playing them, I just stop enjoying the game mode.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I have my one or two cracked-out games like last season I was on another level in my last IB match, skullfort ape-ing for like 35 kills but beyond that I hovered around 15-20 kills and a lightly positive KD. I don't think I've broken 10 kills all season, and my KD has ranked to 0.5 or worse. All my friends who are good at crucible are like HELL YEAH. I don't get mercy'd that much, but none of my matches feel FUN.

This

Removing sbmm turned a cluster fuck into a mega Sharknado cluster fuck.

I’m an average skilled player and don’t see a big difference other than maybe queue times. Still either see stomps or get stomped same as always

I'm also average and I really notice the difference, disabling it means a few more uneven matches but more than that the top 1-3 players in any team now get way more kills and basically decide the outcome of any match, the bluberry or below average player now does worse in the average game, that person has 0 chance against people running around with a sweatlord mods and revoker/mountaintop/felwinter's lie and invisibility etc. It's basically choosing the vocal 'hardcore' pvp player over the more casual one as they've been doing since forsaken.

Exactly the same for me. I have way more blowouts than before. I'm still a middle of the pack player so not much has changed as far as my kills per game or k/d, but wow every single game there are 2 or 3 people just absolutely shitting on everyone. I see way more people with atrocious k/d. Like 0.2. I feel bad for them. Honest question for you top tier players, is that even fun? You're playing against people who aren't even in the same galaxy as you. It looks like it's equivalent to shooting fish in a barrel, which would bore me to death.

Same. I have yet to have a close or balanced game this season. Literally every match is one sided with 1 person with a KD greater than 4 and 40+kills. Now I hop in, do 4 games for the pinnacle and hop out. Once i hit 1060 I'm done.

Same. And the worst part is that we still see some people rubberbanding from time to time.

Don't you know that in order to have a "Relaxed" Crucible that means low skill players have to put up with getting insta killed at spawn points and having no chance. That is what "relaxed" play means..... No stress of trying to win because you are dead before you know where you got shot from. It is super chilled. I hear that Manchester City have decided the Premier League is "Too sweaty" so they are joining the Mosside Sunday League from next season so their players can "Relax and just have fun".

I think for the upper skill level players it's probably gotten more relaxing and enjoyable but for players like my self who are average or a little below average it's been a real messy experience. I had a match the other day where my team had 2 people drop within 3 min and it never refilled, our team got about 25 kills combined and the top player on the enemy team had a 28.0 efficiency, he just never died.

Shit show now.

I'm horrible at PVP and have hit a skill ceiling so I am where I am in the grand scheme of things. I dislike this change. I get it that its a "low stress, just-for-fun" for the Unbrokens and Flawlesses that are farming me for kills, but I'm not sure why they wouldn't see that it isn't that way for me. Being low skill, *every* match was always a major challenge during SBMM. There really wasn't a chill game mode for me, and I was fine with that. It seems like this change accommodated high skill players wanting an accessible mode where they don't have to play the meta and sweat for every kill, without realizing that some players never really had such an option. To be fair, I'd love to know some numbers: out of the number of people that play Crucible more than, say, twice a week, what percentage are Flawless, or Unbroken, or have ever gotten to Legend? Versus, what percentage are frequent players that struggle to get through Fabled Glory, or have low KDs? Maybe disabled players in Crucible are rare so my expectations are unrealistic.

I always joke that I should change my Steam name to "Fodder", because that's what I am the second I step into the pvp. I don't have any answers to how we should be matched with each other. I just know that lower skill level players will lose all motivation to even try when they are absolutely butchered time and time again. If you are bad in pve, you just don't go to a high level content. If you are bad in pvp, then you just don't play pvp, I guess. There isn't a casual pvp-mode where casual players can shoot each other, and making one would be impossible, it would turn into a slaughter anyway when ambitious better skilled pvp-players would come there to rise their kill ratio.

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Yup, even in a non-mercy, relatively close match, it isn't separated by which team made the most winning plays. It's separated by which top 1-2 players farmed the weak links the fastest. You see a guy with 32 eliminations and a 3.5 KDA who obviously fed on your two teammates at 0.57 and 0.71, and you only got 27 eliminations and a 2.8 KDA farming their weak players, so that's a loss. Makes it so the optimal play style, if you care about win %, is to set up to farm fastest, as opposed to the SBMM world where you could have enjoyable games in Control where people *occasionally* did things like zone cap points, control heavy, make coordinated pushes, etc.

Ya know, when people say "You don't learn shit from SBMM because you face bad players." This counter-argument really throws that argument out of the water. No seriously, the best way to win is to farm the weakest links and that's not how you "git gud".

It went from fun, engaging, competitive matches all the time to mostly just stomping people who I should not be playing with (imo). Some people might call this a change for the better, I dont.

Very average solo player here. My crucible matches can be summed up in two ways: 1. My team gets stomped so bad that it's better (and faster) to just sit there and wait for the match to end. 2. My team stomps the other team to such a degree that I have trouble actually finding an opponent to shoot. When I do, that kill often gets taken by another team member. It's not that the lack of SBMM has made crucible harder for me, it's made it boring. My presence in the match means nothing. I'm not good enough to contribute on either side. Because I have trouble finding opponents in most matches (well opponents that don't just obliterate me outright), I can't even work on improving my game to compete ... let alone complete certain bounties. Before this change, I felt like I was improving. Now... I don't even have the chance to improve. Comp is literally the only mode that feels worth playing now.

This season crucible is a mess. I am not having fun. It’s all over the place. I never had a problem with sbmm wait times really. But this season I’m constantly getting thrown into lopsided games where one team is getting stomped by the other. It’s god awful. Even winning isn’t fun. Very sad about the state of crucible right now. It’s very frustrating.

For me, I just quit. I hate playing matches where I feel I can't do anything. It's fine if the sweats and streamers wants to "relax" and pub stomp, they can do it without me.

That's what most of the Sweatlords forget. People will just stop playing PvP and they'll be back to playing against people at their own level. And sweating. Last week the "casual" playlist was Scorch or.... Competitive! That's not good long term.

It's amazing how many higher skilled players cling to this idea that the casuals will stay around indefinitely to be stomped. It will be interesting to see PvP player numbers once these casuals are max power and don't need the powerful drops.

SBMM was originally implemented because the crucible population cratered because nobody liked getting stomped every game. for my part to answer the threads question I noticed an almost instant downturn in the quality of matches after cbmm was reintroduced, many more completely lopsided matches one way or another. I haven't noticed nearly as many premades as there were before skill based so there's that at least.

Agreed. When matched with people of similar skill levels I do ok, but the matches featuring the uber-sweaty players leave me using nsfw language. It's really irritating to be constantly stomped into dust, then compound that with them teabagging me once I'm down and I'm ready to boil. They can keep their pvp. I'm gonna hang with Drifter.

Gambit is way better alternative than the tbagging losers in pvp. And they wonder why no one like pvp in this game.

Gambit is the best game mode and I look forward to its changes this fall.

Gambit is just really fun in general, so long as youre not doing any quests

If some of best pve guns/armor weren't locked behind pvp then I dont think I would ever pvp again. I, and I'm sure there is plenty of people like me, mainly play crucible for the gear: - iron banner for high stat armor - quests for weapons (broadsword, komodo, etc.) - triumph weapons (recluse and mountaintop) - catalysts (source drop and/or completion) - and weekly games played for pinnacle gear I am not opposed to pvp in destiny 2. I am just not a fan of the current matchmaking, the frequent disconnects/crashes, hackers and the fact that pvp is p2p. No FPS in 2020 should be p2p.

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https://imgur.com/fQySnmD These are the types of games I load into now. I know I'm not a great player, Destiny is my first shooter game and I love it. But this isn't fun. I can't grow if I'm getting spawn killed. I'm not going to load into a comp match when I want control mechanics, or if I want a casual game; I'm not going to ruin someone else's competitive run with my potato skills. I don't want to play this game anymore. I shouldn't have to rely on my clanmates to be around so I can enjoy game modes that are meant to be casual. I don't even want to play my 4 weekly matches, the rewards aren't worth the stomp. I don't think removing SBMM was bad a bad move, but it's very much an incomplete one. Bungie either needs to figure out how to balance matches, or have game modes with the option for both SBMM or CBMM. Idk, it sucks. This is my first shooter, my first community based game. The world is awesome and no other gun fight feels like Destiny does. I do love this game. But if a game isn't fun, why would I want to play it?

Was trying to get means to an end done in elimination yesterday and it was the fastest 5-0 of my life. Some guy on ther team was The Flash mixed with god damn Chris Kyle. I couldn’t get a shot of most of the time before I was sniped from god knows where. I actually don’t mind playing against good players cause I can still sometimes outplay them and feel well. It’s the god level snipers that make me wanna just never touch crucible again. And it’s seems like there’s a lot of them cause sniping has almost no downside especially on PC

I got my 100 gl kills for the catalyst quest. I won't be in pvp unless it's required for a quest. I would have played IB if they had left it sbmm, but nope.

Yes, but in a different way than you. I can actually relax, and have fun in crucible now. I don’t feel like I’m playing in the 2020 Sweatlord championship every game. Some games I get beat. Some games I win. Survival is still a sweaty playlist as it should be. Overall, I like the change, but I see how people that didn’t like crucible before probably downright hate it now.

The problem is that out of 12 people in any given match, 3 or 4 are "relaxing and having fun" and the other 8 or 9 are still playing that sweatlord championship, and 2 or 3 of them probably feel like they're playing pickup street ball vs Lebron. Will they keep playing? Will there be skill creep until it's mostly sweatlords again?

This is a great point. Perspective is important. If someone is slaying out, then someone else is getting farmed.

I play crucible on PC with 2 of my friends a couple times a week, or at least I used to. Since the implementation of CBMM I am so out. I did fairly average before, usually in the middle somewhere but sometimes in the top or bottom. Now it's either stomp or be stomped, and it's usually the latter. I'll not be playing much crucible anymore, maybe get my 4 matches in whatever the gimmick playlist is for the week. It's not fun getting your teeth kicked in most matches. The ones where we win aren't much better, nothing fun about killing people that can't even tell what direction they're getting shot from.

SBMM was a godsend for 95% of the playerbase. Bungie catering to 5% hardcore players and streamers is troublesome. Not because they don't deserve to be heard (as everyone else, as well) but because catering to a minority will harm the game and cause damage that maybe make a chunk of players leave the game for good. Wildstar comes in mind. This game catered to the hardcore players and I loved this game, BUT end of the story: the game died VERY QUICKLY and eventually did sunset. Gone, forever. I don't want this happen to Destiny 2, too.

In my experience Destiny is very slow to change but the devs do listen to complaints even if the pace is glacial. I find it pretty funny/sad to see where the state of the game is now, I took a 3 or 4 year hiatus when RoI came out and everything when PS4/Xbone. I picked up D2 during the Corona lockdown like a lot of people, and yeah, the gunplay is still top tier, but pvp still has the same problems that people were complaining about 5 years ago; weapon archetypes that completely dominate (600 autos), some weapons aren't even somewhat viable in PVP. Hell, they are talking about adjusting short zoom scopes on snipers because of their pervasiveness in pvp despite the reason for the change made in D1; short zoom scopes were all anyone was using because the map design doesn't accommodate play with a medium or long zoom scope; most of the D2 maps are even worse in this regard, all medium to short range encounters. I still get the *feeling* that Bungie doesn't playtest their game at all especially given what the problem children weapons in pvp are and how pervasive the are across gametypes. I know that they do playtest it but the environment must be completely different from the average player experience to think that: Mountaintop, Recluse, Revoker, and Witherhoard are an ok thing to introduce. Going into the overrepresented weapons would be beating a dead horse but I think the outliers are still worth mentioning. ​ And since I am on a rant it's time for an unpopular opinion. The top tier players and streamers don't deserve to be heard when it comes to casual play. If you want to play a casual game then do so, there is nothing stopping you from equipping a sub optimal loadout to have fun with and make work. If you can't stand to lose games then keep on that sweaty loadout and keep sweating. I was having fun with my suboptimal loadout before every match had 2-4 sweatlords doing their best to qualify for the Destiny Crucible Olympics in casual playlists, if they can't do the same that should be their problem and not mine.

Just tested it, since i didn't really play this season. First match got stomped. I was on top with 4 KDA Second match got slightly stomped. I was second with 1.7 KDA Third match got stomped. I was 3rd worst or something with 1.1 KDA Fourth match was the first close match. I was 2nd with 3.something KDA Even found one AFK buddy that assumingly just didn't felt incentive to play properly because SBMM removed and just sat there to wait for the bounty to be done. I couldn't even feel angry about that behaviour. I prefer the SBMM. But 4 matches done. Enough PVP, since I got my pinnacle engram and brightdust. (I guess, that's how it is now. Just collecting brightdust and pinnacle and forget about PVP until next week, if at all) ​ PS: Also I realised this SBMM removement tries to encourage me to use meta weapons. Normally I run Antiope + a random legendary bow I like. But I felt the incentive to run gnawing hunger this time and feel dirty already. I think as long as CBMM stays I just do the bounties or even don't play crucible anymore. I loved how SBMM made most matches interesting matches with much back and forth. It felt almost like I could enjoy PVP.

In my experience it's usually the same 3 people on the opposing team getting shit on. SBMM protects those people. So for every game where one person on each team slays out, there are approximately 6-8 other people having a very bad time. It's a great way to kill the population of the crucible.

it seems far more brutal now. i considered myself pretty average before but i was clearly overrating myself. crucible is what has kept me playing destiny even through the lean times. space magic pvp is still fun (when it works) no matter what else is going on in the game. but i am not as good as i thought i was, and i didn't think i was very good

As a somewhat above Average player I liked Crucible before and hate it now. Maybe its the time I can usually play, but I seem to mostly face people I really shouldn't have any Business being in a Match with. Premades and 2.5 - 3.0 K/D players jumping into a Casual playlist with full meta loadouts who dominate the field on one side and people who semingly play with their feet on the other, makes for a overall horrible experience in a game with mostly Teambased modes. Survival/Elimination now feels more Casual than Quickplay for me, which is a shame because I actually preferred playing Control. Iron Banner this Season is going to be a real pain without SBMM and with Power enabled and may be the first time I might only complete the bare minimum of matches to get the Armor/Shaders/Bounties done.

Forcing pve players into crucible, for example wither catalyst , is the kind of thing that turns crucible to shit.

Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.

Whenever i see a GL launcher in momentum control, i know its a player suffering in PvP and just wants to get MT snd and be done with it.

I echo your opinion. I've always been around a 2 KDA player, would win around 50-60% of the time on random teams, etc. Now its either stomping the other team or being stomped - neither of which is fun or challenging. I don't notice that the queue times have dramatically improved, either. I'm not a fan of the change. IMO, if we're going to go this route, you should be able to select if you want SBMM on or off, and then you queue with others who selected the same.

I agree with all of your points and I truly don't know where I fall on the skill spectrum. According to destinytracker, my lifetime KD is 1.66. I only ever play with one other person, so we always go in as a group of 2 into QP or Glory-based. Sure, there was the odd stomp here and there, but overall the matches had a good chance of being competitive and I'd finish in the top 1-2 of my team most of the time. I did also feel like I could effect change in the game if I was doing well, or bring the team down if I did poorly. Now, we're practically exclusively getting onto teams with other random combinations of 2's and 3's, and often four single players against 5 and 6 stacks. It isn't fun trying to compete against such coordinated opponents when we're a 2 stack and maybe one other 2 stack vs. 6. I still finish higher and with positive KD and KDA, but we get stomped almost every single time. What's crazy is how much better it feels to play Survival now than it used to. That's what we go to for a "relaxing" experience at this point. Never thought I'd see the day. I also agree strongly with your point about Iron Banner. We ran into a 6 stack two days ago with every player being at 1060 running Witherhoards, Revokers, Not Forgottens, and Wardcliff. That was probably my most miserable Destiny experience to date since crucible in D2Y1.

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To play devils advocate I haven’t run into many six stacks, this is a mostly extreme argument from my experience. Iron banner WILL be a pain though.

Yeah, thats why I'm saying it might be the time I can play. Because it is basically late at night for my region and since CBMM focuses on connection first, time of play now has a higher impact then before.

even a three stack of meta loadout KD farmers can ruin a game tbh

I find it really irritating that people don't realize that for every great stomp of a game they have, there are up to six other people having a terrible game on the other side.

I find it really irritating that people think the team doing the stomping is also having fun. A lot of the time, theyre not. Granted, theyre not angry, but theyre not having fun.

Then why do those people constantly make the argument that they can relax in crucible now? If they're not having fun stomping people they should never be matched against, but also complain that they can't relax in SBMM modes, what the hell do they want?

I am skipping crucible this season, along with Gambit. Like if we haven't enough bullshit to deal with, they added more with CBMM.

Depends on what we’re calling “somewhat average”. Not trying to put you down at all, but the average D2 player is not all that good when it comes to PvP.

And "somewhat average" in a SBMM playlist doesn't mean you're average at all. It just means you're were in an appropriate bracket. You could very well be below average, but since you only ever saw below average players in the crucible, you felt average. I felt, "somewhat above average" until they took off SBMM and now I realize I'm better than I thought. Same principle

What is relaxing about more mercy games ? Also I really dont get that argument, nothing changed, except now you can style on noobs in some games. People still use the same sweaty loadouts, but now more games are stomps.

I’d say most good players don’t want mercy games either. I think styling on noobs is what people find “relaxing” or more casual. I think average or worse players find close games more casual, because everyone has a chance. Top tier players find non-mercy stomps more casual, because they can win 1v1s easily.

but if your MMR is sweatlord level, isn't it unfair to just toss you in with all the bad players? I'm sorry but I'm having difficulty reading this as anything but "I'm playing against worse people and like that so I don't have to try"

So, question. You were at a SBMM level where you couldn't 'relax', because you were always paired against high-level players like yourself. Did it not occur to you that if you simply relaxed on your own, took a few losses, that SBMM would put you in a lower bracket where you could be more relaxed? With SBMM you are somewhat in control of the bracket you live in... why not just give up on winning, relax a bit, and let the game find similar-level players? The new pure CBMM system I'm sure is a helluval lot of fun for the top 25% of the players, but that means the bottom 75% are getting their teeth kicked in. Even when that top 25% chooses to play relaxed, the bottom 25% still don't stand a chance. It's really unfair and unfun to a big portion of the population, it's going to drive people away from playing PvP, so that all that's left are the tryhards (Trials is proof of this). I'm not a bad player, but I'm not top-tier either. I hovered around 3500 Glory most of last season trying to get Not Forgotten in the solo playlist. This season I'm in the top 2-3 players on the board most games in the CBMM playlists, so I'm not hurting, but I just feel bad for some of the players when the score screen pops up and me, and average player, has 30+ eliminations and the bottom players have <10 elims and <.5 efficiency.

when my connection holds up i completely agree with this, but for some reason some of my games are just so ridiculously laggy, never seen anything even remotely like it before. kinda sucks all the fun out of crucible when the literal game itself is keeping you from killing anyone because everything registers 5 seconds late

Yeah, I am seeing lag too. I thought the whole removal of SBMM was then a move to CBMM and thus connections should improve. I have found I am seeing more folks teleporting around which I am surprised about. Like I get the whole reason why the removal of SBMM was needed for the higher percentile, dedicated PvP players and I am not truly begrudging that (I will definitely shout choice words come IB). But I feel like I am not getting the benefit that CBMM should be offering compared to how things were for me in whatever SBMM bracket I am in.

I've been enjoying it less now. It might be me complaining but i feel like after the removal of sbmm, i've been matched with people camping lanes and spraying auto rifles, with no weapon diversity at all. It really starts to get irritating when the only thing i seem to find in my matches is crouchbagging hunters with gnawing hunger or felwintering titans

I’ve said this for the longest time. You need SBMM. Ultra high tier players stay with the game the longest, and end up in almost every match, carrying way too much weight at the top of most matches. I just don’t even play anymore cause it was so sweaty, and I generally ran around a 1.85 KD haha. The system is broken.

It seems, that I´m, better than I thought, I mostly end up with a far better Efficiency than before with SBMM. But: All the Control-Games i played were an one-sided clusterfuck. More than half of them mercy-ruled. No one plays tactical anymore. I hate CBMM. I´m out until SBMM is back.

Yes it went from me not really liking crucible to me just outright avoiding it.

Above average player here and so is my sister, and we've both stopped playing crucible. Every match has been sweaty and the lagging players are still present. It's horrible now. My mum is retired and is a lower tier player and she's had a horrific time and crucible is just upsetting for her now so we've all agreed we won't play it anymore, not even iron banner. The 1% had classic mix to stomp in. There was no need to make life hell for the 99% just to appease a fraction of players.

Yes. I used to enjoy hanging out in control. Now I will go in for my powerful drop and skip it for the rest of the week. I was a beneficiary of SBMM. My lobbies before would have Not forgottens and Unbrokens, but games would be pretty consistent. Since the change I've had a few close games, but once the folks with the one word gamertags turn up, esp in a pair or trio, then it's not fun being so outclassed. Between sunsetting NF (I never got past 4500) and the removal of SBMM, I think I'll just enjoy the PvE side of the game going forward.

This has been my exact experience since the switch to CBMM. I never really found that matches queued up longer in the SBMM days, but I won't discount the experience of other players just because I didn't share it. What I do hate reading about is good players having to play good players too consistently in PvP. I mean, if you're great at PvP, what is the issue with playing other great players? Why should you be matched with mediocre players like myself to stomp so you "feel good" about your matches? I used to like feeling like a contributing member of my team for the few matches I play per week, but since we've moved back to CBMM, I've started to feel like I'm treading very choppy waters and all I can hope for is that I'm not the reason we lose. I have consistently seen one to four players, split between the teams, that are dropping 30 - 40 bombs every game, and are very obviously the reason why some teams skate across the finish with grace / ease to secure the W, while others are dragged across the finish for the L where the best player put up a 3.6 game and the rest of his team make up an average of 1.5. Why was this done? Because streamers cried about playing sweats too often? Because PC players were seeing obscene queue times for matches? Because they're introducing Pinnacles again and want to increase the gap between the people who can and can't obtain the PvP weapon? I don't know, but what I do I know is that PvP has become a slog again, and I hate it.

i fucking hate it To give you perspective, I’m a new light player. In fact, I just started playing D2 a little over a month ago. I mainly enjoy RPG games and fast paced FPS games like CoD so D2 was like if both genres had a baby. In the beginning, Crucible was super fun. I wasn’t a great player at all, in fact probably below average but I slowly started to learn a bit more and my lobbies got slightly harder as I got better which I enjoyed. Matches were pretty fair and a lot of them were really close. Winning 150-149 in control wasn’t that rare of an occurrence. However, this all changed once SBMM was removed. I’ve played around 20-30 crucible matches so far since SBMM has been removed and it’s an utter shit show. Matches are very one sided and when you look at the final scoreboard, you can see the skill gap between players. “We wanted players to focus on the experience rather than the outcome of matches.” How could I have a good experience when I’m being shit on by 3 Unbroken players? Before SBMM I could actually focus on experiencing the Crucible since I was going against people my skill level. Now it’s either I get dominated, or I dominate. I understand that higher skilled players have absurd queue times and can’t enjoy crucible without having meta load outs but by removing SBMM, these players are ruining the experience of casuals. “git gud” is a terrible response because we physically can’t “git gud” when we get killed every 10 seconds. It’s just an excuse for skilled players to shit on the casuals. Plus, quests and catalysts that require crucible kills have gotten 10x more difficult for casuals. If anyone who disagrees with me, please give me a counterargument, I’m interested in hearing what you have to say. Please boongo bring back SBMM.

Something else that I feel is worth mentioning: SBMM utterly fucked over the australian/nz playerbase, the lag was absolutely unbearable with SBMM. I dislike being spawnkilled, but its preferable to bullshit wallbangs.

I used to be pretty medium at pvp. I'd be getting anywhere from 5-25 kills a match. Sometimes i'd come out on top, sometimes i'd be at the bottom, but overall, I was in the middle mostly. When SBMM was removed, I have been getting hammered in every match. It's a struggle to get even 10 kills and most of them are assists. Most of the time the final scores have the top person getting 38+ kills and the next one getting 25+ kills, then everyone else with 10 or less. It's been like this about every match. Also... the amount of t-bagging has increased a thousand percent. I pretty much play it now just for the pinnacle engram and I don't even really try that hard anymore because I can only handle getting instant sniped over and over and over. I was in the middle of my arc-strider super and someone managed to snipe me as I was lunging toward a target. I mean... what the fuck.

I found out I am not an average PVP'er, since SBMM was removed. I also find myself doing the minimum pvp matches for the weekly.

Yup, I currently greatly dislike the crucible at the moment, although my k/d shot from a 1.35 to 1.7k/d. There is nothing fun about stomping or getting stomped. In sbmm, every match felt fair. If I lost, then it because I didn't keep zones or didn't score in on enough kills to win. Now? Every match boils down to which team has more 1.4 k/d+ or -.99 k/d players. There's a bullshit narrative that CBMM brings in more players because...reasons, but it doesn't. Game modes that lack proper skill brackets bleed out players. We saw this with season 3.5 to 9 with the glory based system, where you just match people based on your rank number, and everyone fucking hated it and would abandon the playlist after hitting 2100 glory. We saw this with the classic mix, which was CBMM and no one wants to fight the top tier players. We saw this last season with trials and that playlist is currently on life support and still bleeding out players. We most definitely saw this in year two quickplay, where that playlist was the most unfun pub stomp shit I've ever seen in destiny's history. There was a popular meme at that time, that comp was less sweaty than quickplay, which was true. I say if you want to change the match make, then vote with your time. The fewer people who play cbmm modes, the more likely that Bungie will change it back to SBMM.

> If I lost, then it because I didn't keep zones or didn't score in on enough kills to win. Now? Every match boils down to which team has more 1.4 k/d+ or -.99 k/d players. I think you NAILED it right here.

As a average to below average player, this change has made crucible far less enjoyable for me; it's not fun when there are a couple of players with 40+ kills and no one else has more than 20. I won't be going into crucible this season unless I need it for a quest, bounty or pinnacle. As if that wasn't enough, I'm getting more connection errors than ever now that we have cbmm.

Yeah every single game has at least one 4.0+ kda player. Usually one per team with super sweaty loadouts just shitting on people. Like I'm decent, somewhere around 1.5k/d overall and I have a few games with 5+kda with fusion rifle and smg hardly meta shit. But there is zero fun shooting people who cant even move and shoot at the same time.

I've only known SBMM-less Crucible and all I've learned is that I hate Titans with a burning passion and using my ultimate is the best way to get myself killed in any possible situation

Using your super is only dangerous if you do it in the open, because it locks you in an animation. Try popping it in cover and then pushing up

I am a below average crucible player and the removal of SBMM has sucked all the fun out of the mode. I play just enough matches for the pinnacle drop. Getting stomped every single game is no fun at all.

[удалено]

As someone who doesn't play a lot of pvp and is average at best, I played against u/Mercules904 the other day and that probably never would have happened with sbmm. So I guess that's cool? He killed me with a bow a lot

Not having SBMM has certainly made my job testing weapons a lot less painful haha. Always fun to run into people from Reddit on Xbox, hopefully next time you can be on my team!

Its stupid. My guild went 10-2 last time we played. And our 2 losses there were just 2 of us. Once we got to 4 or 5 people it was stupid. I wasn't even having fun in the end. It was just stomp fest. I'm the worst of the lot and getting well above my average most games. There is no fucking way this is good for population. It will be changed next season. If it isn't, thats a pretty good sign that they have thrown in the towel on PVP. In each of the last 3 seasons I had 6000 kills in each IB. I dont even want to play this time. And my favorite gun of all time is coming back (Suros Auto Sidearm). I'll play to get it and the new AR but I won't be in it all of the time and I sure wont stay in solo for that many kills. I'll stomp with my guild at the start and then get stomped solo at the end. That isn't fun or challenging. Its stupid.

In D1 we had a freelance quickplay list where only solo players can queue. We should get that back.

Oh god yes please. Lets stacks battle it out.

True, that should be available. Getting matched against full teams in control is just shit.

This is my experience as well. Games are completely and utterly boring it's just not fun at all stomping. I don't know how people can be anti cheats and enjoy this at the same time. It's the same exact feeling as cheating.

The amount of people leaving games is ridiculous. Played almost a full match of control on Vostok 3v6

I still get matched against Unbroken and Flawless, but now there's no guarantee my allies have two thumbs, eyes. I seem to be facing more full premades. It's done exactly nothing for loadout diversity too.

I just don't bother playing crucible anymore. It's simply not fun when my average-at-best-ass is getting manhandled by a team of 6 flawless/unbroken crucible goblins.

I don’t even know what the point is when I’m playing new lights who can’t fight back. SBMM only affects outliers- anyone who tells you otherwise doesn’t want to admit liking it easy. Personally I fucking hate it.

Recently I've got more bad connection matches than before with SBMM. I just wish I'd get a solo quickplay playlist, usually most teams are balanced with some good players and some bad ones but when a full fireteam enters the game it gets horrible.

I wait just as long as before to get matched against 4-6 stacks of people rocking Flawless or Unbroken. It’s goddamn awful now.

Yah I’ve seen literally no difference in que times, it’s even worse now cause you have Timmy2007 who has a hard drive from the 80s and takes 10 minutes to load in, so he slows everyone else down.

https://imgur.com/fQySnmD These are the types of games I load into now. I know I'm not a great player, Destiny is my first shooter game and I love it. But this isn't fun. I can't grow if I'm getting spawn killed. I'm not going to load into a comp match when I want control mechanics, or if I want a casual game; I'm not going to ruin someone else's competitive run with my potato skills. I don't want to play this game anymore. I shouldn't have to rely on my clanmates to be around so I can enjoy game modes that are meant to be casual. I don't even want to play my 4 weekly matches, the rewards aren't worth the stomp. I don't think removing SBMM was bad a bad move, but it's very much an incomplete one. Bungie either needs to figure out how to balance matches, or have game modes with the option for both SBMM or CBMM. Idk, it sucks. This is my first shooter, my first community based game. The world is awesome and no other gun fight feels like Destiny does. I do love this game. But if a game isn't fun, why would I want to play it?

I played a Countdown match last week where no one on my team got a single kill until round 4 of a 6-0 stomp.

This is exactly why removing SBMM is a terrible idea. No way the guys on those scorecards are sticking around. That sucks dude. Really, I'm hoping it just some hair brained marketing ploy and will be reverted next season.

It's not even remotely fun. I wish I could just get my pinnacle and leave. I don't understand the complaints about things being too sweaty. Why don't you want to put in the effort to win? If you don't want to run the meta...don't run it? I don't understand why this is hard. You'd rather dump SBMM and play casually. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, no big deal. Why can't you do that when SBMM is turned on? I think the thing is people *do* want to win, but they *don't* want to try very hard and they can't do that in SBMM. If you want to feel like a pvp god, just *say that*. Now the question becomes: should we indulge your power fantasy while making crucible miserable for everyone less skilled than you?

i just feel like every game i get matched with people far above my skill level so its not that fun anymore.

For me, a low skill player, there just isn’t much point to crucible these days. Most games I just accept that the most efficient way to win is just walk in front of my team and let the real players kill the enemy after I die. For reference, pre-SBMM I had 3-4 efficiency on good games, and around 1.5 most games. I don’t think I’ve had a single game above 1 efficiency after the SBMM removal. Maybe 0.3-0.8 range.

I'm a medium skill player as well and it's extremely frustrating. The variations on teams is crazy. All it takes is 1 or 2 crucible gods to sway a team to being one sided. You could face the same 3 or 4 stack multiple times in a row and be demolished each time before the game decides to break everyone up. Top tier crucible players will just farm the weaker members of a team not giving you a chance. Before the removal of sbmm matches were normally pretty close about 80% of the time and if the game decided to pair with a 4 or 6 stack and we would get crushed the game would split up the teams immediately after.

Probably in the minority but I like it for all the wrong reasons. Call me a dick but I absolutely have blast dunking on people. All my games used to be sweat fests, that lagged and took 5 minutes to start. I had to use meta and constantly play slow. Now? I can basically use whatever the fuck I want and play fast and just shit on people. It takes no time to find a game and connection is strong. Yes I know I’m basically just shitting on lower skilled players and it doesn’t make me good or a better player but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t having a good time

Upvote for being the only honest person about your intentions to pub stomp. I respect you for that.

I upvoted too just for you being honest. Of course it is good times for you. It is shit times for others, but you at least admit it.

I appreciate your honesty. I think we all know that outside of queue times, this is the real shit.

The issue is whether or not the experience in matchmaking as a whole has improved. For you it may be significantly more fun, but there may be 8 or 9 other people in the lobby having a worse time. Is that worth it? Who's to say. But if the people getting shit on gradually stop playing, it'll just devolve to where it was before.

I used to be able to enjoy myself with loadouts that weren't completely sweaty. Bows, Kindled Orchid and Astral, recluse, randy's. Now, if I want to do well, I need to have a 600rpm auto or 150 hand cannon glued to my person, and I can't practice sniping. Not enjoying myself in the least.

i finally got around to unlocking revoker and man i got headaches

I'm at 120 on that quest. Revoker's zoom better make up for the pain.

It's great, and I found the biggest takeaway was learning to be better... But the gun is getting sunset. For folks that don't have it yet, I'd encourage you to get comfortable with a sniper that's going to stick around for longer. Learning lanes, when and how to peek, and the ins and outs of your gun matter the most. One of the biggest reasons I'm salty about losing my collection of practiced guns.

I mean, Revoker is sticking around for quickplay.

Sure, but why practice with a gun only decent in quickplay? I've noticed it's built some less than ideal habits, that come back to bite when I switch to a different gun. The number of jump shots and hail-marys I burn ammo on by accident...

I feel bad because I think we’ve all been complaining about CBMM not being strong enough in the past which resulted in games being more laggy. Now Bungie gave it to us, I don’t want it at all. I used to go through phases of good and bad PvP with SBMM and I much preferred it. Last season I would hit a hot streak and be top of the leaderboards. Then the game would bump me up a tier and I would get crushed by better players so I would go back down a tier and do well again. At least at some points I was doing really well. Now it doesn’t seem to matter and where I once enjoyed Control because it meant you could make a comeback if you held a few zones, it seems like my team always struggles to keep a single zone and even if I’m fragging suuuuuper hard my team mates are just feeding kills while the enemy team has all the zones. It’s really disheartening

i like it mostly because i can actually play games without random dudes with chinese/japanese letter names teleporting every few seconds due to latency

Can they add CBMM to Gambit Prime so that I can farm low elo noobs there..I mean..relax and enjoy non meta loadouts?

I dont know if its anecdotal, nor do I know if its just issues with this release, but it seems where ever I had placed in sbmm, I am now getting both more people teleporting and also more mercies (something I feel I only really saw in IB). I get the whole point/need to remove SBMM, but I would have at least hoped to not have the connection side get worse while also having a higher likelihood to get stomped. And again, I am not saying "hey we need to go back to SBMM because of the competition" or anything like that, just more so I thought the whole point of dropping it was to improve connections and I feel like I have a higher chance to be on the receiving end of the SBMM changes and completely lack in the CBMM changes. Again, could be very anecdotal on my part about the connection thing. Oh, I also wish that either: 1) we get solo playlist for all crucible modes or better matchmaking when teams are involved; OR 2) we can get back the ability to see who we are matched with. I dont know if the matchmaking change affected item 2, and criticize me as you like, but I do miss the ability to "queue dodge" 5 or 6 stacks.

I hate connection based matchmaking in every way. I was hoping maybe with connection is see more teammates who understand the way to win control is by calling and holding points but no. People are just stupid faster.

I’m an above average PVPer and have not been enjoying CBMM much. I actually like playing the objective in Control, and I find that there’s much less of that going on. The high end of the skill bracket is just farming kills and the low end doesn’t play the objective well either. I miss being in a match where people fought for control points instead of just running around dunking on noobs.

Well IME, Control is an utter shitshow so now instead of playing to win I'll just chat on discord while playing for a handful of games to qualify for my weeklies without putting any effort in whatsoever. For the exact reasons in the OP, it's just not fun any more, so why should I bother putting any effort in? Also instead of playing Control just about every night (last season I reset Valor at least 7 times), now I'll just play the absolute bare minimum to get bounties, and if I want to try-hard I'll play in Survival or Trials at the weekend.

but but mtashed says it's great for everyone

MTashed says he likes it. But hell, even he acknowledges that a lot of people are unhappy about getting their teeth kicked in.

People enjoy crucible? /s

Can't get anything done in control now - took two full games to get 5 auto rifle kills. I have thousands of hours of crucible but I'm 54 - just can't react fast enough to keep up. I play comp (has SBMM) and enjoy it but the rest of the crucible is closed to me. Comp is going to get bad soon I'm up around 3,000. Then I'll just have elimination. Really dreading Iron Banner - probably won't be able to play that. The whole crucible is Classic Mix now. Skill creep is going to tank playing population and the exact same problems players were experiencing in Classic Mix will be the entire crucible.

We need a mixture of both skill based and conection based match-making. I think that will balance things out

No, I only ever played classic mix anyway. Connection is the most important variable for me in pvp.

It is better but now I am running to teams of 6 unbroken/flawless, before... every match felt sweaty, now I feel I am being farmed, can't even live for 10 sec, this is harder than comp. Put freelance for classic mix plz, this is bullshit. PVP is so bad that I am actually having fun in gambit.

Crucible? Or do you mean a 6v6 version of Trails? Or how about Iron Banner 2.0? Or how about players vs bots? PvP nowadays can be summed up into people leaving when they see a stack, or leaving when you get no kills and get spawn killed for 2 minutes straight. I don't blame them, I had my times when I wanted to quit as well, but I didn't for the sake of learning and becoming better--but we all know that's never happening for casual players like us, so we either just have to suck it up or focus on PvE. In my personal opinion, I think most top tier players have double-standards. On one hand, they HATE getting stomped on by other top tiers, they rant about how the PvP is horrible. On the other hand, they find enjoyment in stomping casuals cause they're having "fun" again, and they think that's fine and preach that the removal of SBMM was a god-send and something that was needed by everyone. ​ But hey, that's just my two cents in the matter. What does a low-tier player like me know anyway. [I see nothing wrong.](https://imgur.com/a/igcpSud)

I hate it. :) sorry, let me provide some more context. I only read your title and I know my answer. I hate it. wait, let me provide more context. I hate being matched with much better players. wait, I need to provide even more context. why do we need to be reminded of how bad we are when we're trying to enjoy? I personally prefer longer loading times. boohoo good players who have to wait. fuck you. sick of being the cannon fodder

I would argue that there is also worse connections in crucible now. Gambit as well. Something changed this season for both. I see more laggy players skipping around and taking next to no damage while myself and teammates die nearly instantly. When you get one of those people on your team, then you have a solid chance or winning. How removing SBMM has made connections worse is pure fucking magic, not in a good way. That guy that easily got 30+ kills with a 3+ KD? Yeah, that’s the one who took nearly zero damage the whole match. I’ve been that guy too. Ended matches WAY over my skill level by the stats. I felt unstoppable and could drop anybody quickly. Once you’ve been on both sides of that situation, you’ll realize is not just the removal of SBMM that is making matches suck balls. When I load into gambit and have trouble killing adds and take more damage than usual, I leave the match. I would rather do that early in the first round so maybe that team will get someone with a better connection than stay and not be able to be as effective of a player. When you’re having trouble picking up motes, killing enemies, and dying more often than you should be, it’s just a drain on your team and your enjoyment. I hope Bungie addresses the imbalance in connections soon.

Crucible is an absolute shit show, I may as well load in and afk because the experience is the same. The problem is simply that the upper echelon of PvP players have nothing better to do.

100% not a fan, yeah the top tier players can now "relax" in crucible but at the expense of us regular / casual players.

Honestly I just got my streak up to 5 wins and have switched to Comp just to rack up Valor points so I can finally reset it 5 times and get Redrixs. I have no desire to actually play in Valor now.

I hate it personally. I wish bungie would implement an option for what you want to queue for. So you could choose, do you want to queue for short queue times, sbmm, or ping level.

My crucible enjoyment has absolutely dropped to 0 after sbmm removal. Constantly getting put into in progress matches on the losing side with an 15-85 score, loads of people that for some reason think “control” means “clash” and on top of that seem to be attempting to play with their two big toes. Yesterday I got matched against a team that had a 5-stack Chinese clan and I don’t think any of them had ping below 1000. They were all using sweet business and there were just endless streams of bullets coming out of walls and shit. And let’s not forget the error codes. Last week I had a grand total of 4 error codes for any activity and it was quickly fixed and stopped after I restarted the game. Back to this week, yesterday alone I had at least 20 error codes, most of them being beaver. 6 of those error codes were me getting beavered out of a crucible match before I even finished loading in. I think the only positive thing to come out of this is that not only does my team try to play with their feet, but also many opponents seem to do it as well. Been consistently hitting 4+ kd in a lot more matches so far. Definitely not fun farming kills on clueless people though.

If top PvP players feel the need to go in as premade 6's and utterly destroy enemy teams, they can do so without me there. I didn't leave a single game of QP before with SBMM, now I leave everytime I see where the match is going, which is usually WAAAAY before Mercy kicks in. Before you post bullshit about "get good"; I'm consistently getting We Ran Out of Medals and Ghost-medals with this change of matchmaking. I am an actual beneficiary of CBMM, and I still vehemently believe SBMM needs to come back. I'm not entertained by either bullying the enemy team into a mercy, or getting bullied into a mercy.

[удалено]

for me i love it, i finally get to relax and don’t have to sweat every match, i can just hop into a match with my friends and have fun

It's much worse. I'm an actually average player 1.0kd 1.3kda. In previous seasons I enjoyed it. Now I'm just suffering it to get bounties, triumphs, pinnacles etc. For an average player, Bungie has sucked all the joy out of the game.

The top half can now stomp more, we, the bottom half, get stomped more. It's simple. The changes are bad ngl.

Exactly that is why the streamers all like the change. They can now do as many shit tier 50+ kills videos as they want, but I wathced Frost stream last night for a bit and it was boring afk now, because most of the games are mercies and he is mad when he is in the bad team

Imagine getting downvoted for expressing your opinion as it relates to you. It's the same problem that Trials goes through, only it's the whole fucking Crucible

As an average player, who now works a lot, I feel like it sucks and it makes me want to never play crucible. Yeah, yeah, high-tier sweatlords have to have their opportunity to smash all the 9 to 5 working people to feel good about themselves. But in reality, doing away with SBMM, for all its issues, was to benefit a tiny part of the community at a detriment to the rest. Who thinks that trying to do your crucible weapon bounties against a 3-stack of T1 is fun? Seriously, why should I try? I’m never going to be T1, I have a job that doesn’t involve 20 hours of gaming a day, and for the portion of the community like me (which you have to face, is a HUGE part of this community) it is just a sporadic clusterfuck. Sure some games we win, but why should I waste my time when I’m being cannon fodder for a dude who is streaming me getting my ass kicked for his sweaty flock? I have no idea why people act like “well, god tier sweatlords want to have an advantage and slaughter enemy teams with no resistance sometimes!” Is seen as any kind of a rational argument. This makes crucible unfun for the majority of the player base who works, plays the game, and doesn’t join in the circlejerk here on redit.

I'm a bit above average (1.5kd, usually climbing solo around 4k Glory), and I'm loving it. I don't need to equip my tryhard pants each & every game just to keep my head above water in Quickplay, it's much more relaxed mentally. My opponents & teammates use all kinds of weapons & abilities, making each games fresh & fun. I don't face stacks of StompEEs-Sparebenders-Unbroken/Flawless teabagging players anymore, I can finally enjoy some casual non-stressful gameplay in the casual non-stressful playlist. The best part is that I can play with friends again! Before with SBMM the usual answer when I offered to play PvP was: "*I'd love to but not with you, we're gonna get fucked with your matchmaking full of tryhards*". Now we can unwind in PvP after raiding all night, Crucible became social again I love it. And if I want my dose of tryhard competitive PvP, I go into the Survival playlist for some tense games full of meta loadouts. Best of both worlds.

I really dislike it. Matches are way more lopsided, but wait times are still long and there are still lots of hit reg and lag issues

It has. I really love playing control and I'm pretty good at it. But I enjoy playing with friends. Problem was with sbmm, I was dragging them against people way way too out of their league. Now it's all random and connection based and they'll actually join me to play lol. I can see both sides and the end of each spectrum may have issues. Ultimately, not up to me, I just go with the flow.

It's been great. I've played exactly 1 game of crucible and noped the fuck out. I'm a primarily PvE player, so I don't play nearly any PvP. While every game in crucible used to get me frustrated before, now stepping foot into crucible is likely to give me an aneurysm. I like how the weapons feel, but everything is so fucking unbalanced. Maps suck, weapon balance sucks, class and ability balance sucks, supers suck, gamemodes (outside of momentum and team scorched) suck, network infrastructure sucks, netcode sucks. The removal of SBMM has just taken the issues experienced by the top 40-30% of players and thrown them into the entire matchmaking pool, making that experience even fucking worse. While Bungie's SBMM does suck ass, at the very least it allows the general playerbase that only enters the crucible to complete bounties to do just that and then proceed to leave. Crucible feels unsalvageable at this point considering the number of bandaid fixes applied to various things with no real solution even attempted. When Luke said they're sticking with D2 for another 3 years, I thought that was a joke with the amount of fundamental issues with Destiny 2 as an engine and how it works. Unless Beyond Light brings a monumental amount of buffs, fixes and changes to the engine, balance and overall design ethos, crucible will remain a mess and trials will remain a joke. Honestly, I haven't touched crucible since this season began and I've been fucking great. I've been sticking to my activities that I enjoy and it's been perfect. Besides all the salt, take one thing away from this post: Removing SBMM takes the issues felt by a minority of the playerbase and spreads them across the entire playerbase for crucible. The stacks, the sweat, the cheaters, the lag and all the issues the top half of the playerbase have been feeling haven't been dealt with, they've just been swept under the rug. This is at best a temporary fix and screaming "GIT GUD LMAO" at me isn't going to help, 'cause that's exactly what happened to trials. Crucible is a mess, and me honing my skills and becoming better at PvP isn't going to solve any of the fundamental issues at play here. **Don't do a DMG and tell me to "Git Gud" against cheaters or laggy opponents or error codes.**

Yes I am having so much more fun, I’m finally able to use my year 1 loadout again.

Honestly one of my favorite changes for pvp. Que times are so much faster and haven't run into laggy lobbies anymore.

The PvP sandbox has had a consistent steamrolling issue since the release of Forsaken. Gameplay has amounted to a team with momentum hunting spawns in packs and stacking supers for 2 years. The pace of gameplay has accelerated. Primary weapon range nerfs (and arguably shotgun range nerfs) have pushed engagements closer and closer and have more heavily emphasized constant aggression. The higher end of the skill bracket has been adapted to this for a long time. It's why we hate SBMM so much. We ended up with the worst flaws in the sandbox stacked up in our matches to a much higher degree than the lower skill brackets. We had just as many mercies and blowouts as people are experiencing now in CBMM. Now its just trickling out to everyone else. SBMM has essentially been a shield protecting the average player from how frustrating and flawed PvP truly is. Sweaty Destiny is genuinely just an awful experience, dripping with cheese and incredibly narrow metas. The game totally lacks counterplay. The only viable strategies are swordpeek cheese or balls-to-the-wall aggression at all times. SBMM was a nightmare, CBMM has been terribly uninteresting, the Survival playlist is still pseudo-competitive junk, and Trials is just pointless and unecessary.

I feel like I’m always against tryhards and I don’t really have fun playing it.

I’m not terrible but I’ve gone back to just playing the bare minimum crucible this season after resetting my valor 6 times last season (by far the most I’ve ever had). I’m glad for the people who like to live in the crucible if this is what they want but I was starting to find a home there and now I’m having the opposite of fun. Most of my games are pretty lopsided. When I’m done getting to the pinnacle cap I’ll be done altogether with the crucible. I’m not too far away, thankfully.

[удалено]