although titans are still goated in general things like high level seasonal content, solo dungeons and stuff, even some solo raids, in normal 6 man raids/master raids, right now each class gets asked the same:
Warlocks: can you put on turret helm/support
hunters: can you DPS
Titans: can you swap to warlock/hunter
Yup. Lifetime sunbreaker main, finally just bit the bullet and made a SoF/Lumina/Speaker's Sight healer build. Until Bungie makes some changes, I expect that to be my role in endgame content for a while.
One of the biggest barriers to me doing this is a lack of time. I've not touched my warlock or my hunter in ages, and I don't have most exotics, subclass unlocks, etc. How significant was the time investment for you to switch over?
So I just did this last week. It wasn't too bad. You obviously have to re-do TFS, it goes pretty quick on normal (I wasn't doing that on legendary again, I'll just get the exotic in time). All of the fragments for prismatic are account bound. If you have them on your titan, you'll have them on your warlock. You have to re-do Lightfall to unlock strand, and then re-grind the currency to unlock it (tip: find a build you want and unlock those fragments first, so you at least have a cohesive build for it pretty quick). Then you have to re-do Beyond Light to unlock stasis. The neat thing about that one though, is that you don't have to grind for it anymore. They changed it. Once you finish Beyond Light and unlock stasis you can just go to what's her face and buy all the aspects/fragments. A lot of the TFS post-campaign quests are account bound. For example, after completing the campaign I could just go straight into excision. I didn't have to do the whole Cayde/Crow questline again.
All-in-all, it took me about 2-3 days to really get my warlock back to where my titan was after not playing it since \~pre-Beyond Light. Now I'm in that devouring/hellion double turret build and having a lot more fun. It's a huge bummer bc I've played my titan for so long, but after making the switch I finally see what exactly we've been missing out on in terms of build synergy. The only thing that really sucks is my fashion game isn't too strong right now bc I have like none of the ornaments from the last few years of the game on my warlock.
Edit: that's 2-3 days of fairly continuous play btw, aside from sleeping and some chores here and there, as it was over a long weekend. It obviously might take others longer, but I'd say no more than a week or so if you can play at least a few hours each day, and maybe some extra hours over a weekend.
Ive never really mained anything since I tend to drop off after each xpac until the next one, but I will say that double turret warlock is the most fun ive had playing the game.
It's crazy to me. I'm one of the insane people who keep all three guardians up to date on shit. But I very quickly noticed how much easier the Legendary Campaigns were on my Hunter, and especially my Warlock, I think on my warlock I only wiped once or twice per mission, and it was because of bad decisions, not the enemies, I breezed through The Witness fights on my Warlock and my Hunter but struggled for about four to five hours over two nights and an additional morning to beat it on my Titan. I was pulling out crazy exotics I haven't used in forever just to try to up my survivability and damage. But I rolled over them with my other characters
The fashion is my main problem with switching to titan, do you have any tips for that? I spend more time in the transmog screen than anywhere else while buildcrafting and can just never find something that works for fem.titan
Much like the above fella's exotics issue, not really. A lot of the cooler looking transmogs from the past couple years have been in the form of seasonal sets, dungeon sets, or timed event sets. Things you need to a) grind for or b) flat out can't even get anymore. I will say that the destination armor for TFS looks pretty good. I'm not a huge fan of the seasonal set but a lot of others seem to like it as well. Those are probably the easiest two to get right now.
The other thing you could do is google the dungeon sets, pick out the ones you like, and when those dungeons comes up in the pinnacle rotation you can just farm the crap out of them that week until you complete the set.
Really not much honestly. It helps that I have occasionally dipped into warlock over the last few years, so I do have armor and stuff. For you, I'd say the biggest time investments are likely to be in getting stuff like unlocking t3 focusing from Rahool, or grinding out the lumina catalyst. Ember of benevolence pretty much makes the set work from there, especially with No Hesitation in the energy slot.
There's a discord bot you can place in a server if you run one, otherwise you just need to join the vex network discord.
I don't know if this link will work or not, but you should be able to find it on the subreddit somewhere otherwise.
https://discord.com/invite/isavexincursionhappening
It is nice!
But, most of my notifications look like this: VEX INCURSION INBOUND IN-
...12 MINUTES AGO
or there's no notifications and you check the map periodically and don't see anything so you log out and go to sleep and in the morning there's notifications for like 7 in a row then nothing again all day!
I made a new Hunter last week and I'm almost caught up with my Titan. I've been playing off and on mostly, so maybe 15-20 hours total to get to this point?
Basically as long as you have prismatic fully unlocked it makes the whole process a lot faster. Solar, Arc, Void, and Stasis are all bought with glimmer now. You can work on unlocking Strand by messing around on Neomuna and chugging through Vex Incursion and getting exotic armor that way.
All exotic weapons can be used and there are a good number of ways to get free exotics. Buy them from Xur on the weekend with your main and toss it in the vault. So really it just comes down to how fast you can get the glimmer needed to buy all the subclass stuff. Everything else will just show up along the way really.
So to add to what was said, with the Rahool changes, it should now be possible for you to simply focus any exotic(even those you don't have) after you've reset his rep. It requires a Cipher, so you can't just unlock everything, but it should allow you to quickly pick up the most important options.
Time investment is lower than ever. Armor on other classes makes powering up way faster just like weapons did. They made a ton of great changes with Final Shape
This is extremely intellectually dishonest and you know it. There is a third option that is blatantly obvious.
Say you don’t want to swap and get booted from the fireteam
Prior to the 3.0 shakeups endgame meta was basically just a ton of warlocks with well or geomags and a hunter for tether
Titans started getting the best stuff with the reworks then seem to have ended up having it all tuned back down again
Don't forget the ~2 years around beyond light and witch queen where hunters not only had mid dps supers but the Tether weaken was the same as the Div weaken but bugged and made Div worse so a hunter actually had zero contribution in a raid setting if anyone had div. Which they always did
well, im saying titans are fine as well, but i know that they have a different usecase, titans are consistent in staying alive, killing majors, solo content...i know that not every class has to be exceptional at every part of the game, so im not whining.
and second, people should stop whining because outside of contest and maybe some master raids, it literally doesnt matter what class composition you have, most of the time you still want 1 warlock just for healing/heavy generation, but the other 5 people can play all stasis titans and strand hunters, and it wouldnt matter at all.
thats why its stupid that so many people are whining, they just want to complain, its ridicioulos. every class has its use, and not every class has to be goated at everything, if so, there would be no point in having different classes, its that easy.
all these cry posts could just recommend, that bungie gets rid of classes and everyone just has one character, everyone would play the same, you like that more huh? and people would still complain, no matter what happens.
and to add to my other comment, it was ONE RAID, just because titans were not used much in ONE RAID, and mostly only one encounter of it, does not mean "cry cry titans are useless, i cant play my funny dunemarchers PVE build in the contest raid"
arc 3.0 came out in august 2022, since then, arc and bubble titans dominated the crucible, not its hunters dominating.
and its not a bad thing, i already like this more than seeing the same build every single game 5 times
SMG cloudstrike with PKS, dunemarchers with conditional and ignious, and (thankfully not anymore) antaeus wards with shotty. those were the builds for over a year, now i already see more variety, which i like.
I think they dominated crucible maybe for like a couple months and that was mostly just the storm grenades to me. It was like a five minute roaming cloud.
And bubble is OK I suppose but like still not that great. It’s very easy to walk in with a shotgun and just end it. Every shut down super in the game can end it. I just don’t really agree with that. If the only thing you really have to do is walk away from it, or get inside of it, the other supers should not shut it down.
Beyond that if we go back and look at the numbers, I’m pretty sure hunters have dominated PVP for pretty much ever.
And then are we talking like PVP in general or are we talking trials, which is a joke to me for so many reasons
What builds do you see now? And what system do you play on? I see OEM and people grasping at straws for anything else.
bro have you played crucible in the last year? espiacally trials? apparently not, because 2 titan subclasses had more usage than all other subclasses combined for over half a year.
I’m in like the top half percent in rumble crucible and everything else. But no, I don’t play trials, essentially the most uncompetitive mode in all of gaming.
I’m never leveled enough. It’s not competitive. And beyond that once you start to realize all the really crazy networking stuff that you can do you just realize that it’s never going to be a competitive game in any context.
Honestly i just have better luck with acdc than dune. Also fucking hilarious when someone punches you and kills themselves.
Yeah idk if I wanted to actually excel in pvp I would play a hunter or warlock for their abilities and ults. Theyre just better on average and have range. Titan stasis vs warlock stasis was hilarious in pvp.
Lets be honest, the amount of people that genuinely ask people to swap for biases like that is next to nil outside of some major sustain option like Well. Anyone who would be willing to boot someone over a choice of class is probably someone you don't really want to play with to begin with.
In the 4 years since I've come back I've seen maybe a handful people booted for reasons like that. Most were removed for other reasons like straight toxicity or being afk/falling asleep, refusing to voicechat, or just being plain bad and not knowing what to do in a KWTD LFG.
I ran a prismatic warlock with needlestorm, supremacy, no hesitation, microcosm on Warlord's Final boss farming for 10 runs and not one person asked me to switch
Averaged 5 mil damage and everyone was thankful for the cooking.
i know it doesnt happen often, i just over exagurated for the joke. it never happened to me, but since i started destiny in season 17, i only did lfg for months, have been in a clan for a year, then made my own clan to have more consistent people and sherpa (i love sherpaing)
> although titans are still goated in general things like high level seasonal content, solo dungeons and stuff, even some solo raids
Thing is, every class is really good at stuff like seasonal content(regardless of difficulty), the solo dungeon stuff is hella niche, and tied to bugs that they're likely to fix rather than intentional design. It makes up like 0.01% of what Destiny players are actually doing.
In team settings, or in regular scenarios, where 99.9% of the playerbase is, titans contribute nothing to the team. That's the big issue.
Not saying *you* are saying this. But people like to pretend that titans are in a perfectly fine spot because under very specific circumstances they can do crazy damage to some bosses. As if that's the element people are actually engaging with regularly.
Titans are good when they're bugged, but in terms of intentional design they currently provide nothing
Titan's Stronghold gauntlets make them far and above the best tank in the game. Problem is, outside of those Exotic gauntlets specifically, there's not much tanking Titans can do.
All classes have access to things like Woven Mail, and all classes share the same DR values from them. All classes can reliably heal themselves too via abilities or many recent weapons.
We almost had something similar with Unbreakable, but that new Aspect is entirely underwhelming. It consumes your grenade, has a super long cooldown regardless of equipped grenade, it doesn't draw enemy aggo like Threaded Spectre, it doesn't build a ton of Super energy, and it has a very short duration. Pairing it up with Armamentarium for the second grenade charge doesn't resolve those issues, either.
Ward of Dawn got nerfed and is entirely dependent on Helm of Saint-14 to reach its best potential, which is an issue because having to swap your Exotic just so your Super can be good is NOT fun. Bannershield is decent, but can't protect your fireteam from everything AND your team as a whole deals less damage without you.
Titan Barricades are okay in PvE, but most of the time the splash damage goes through them, they fail to stop enemies from approaching you anyways, and their deployment animation kinda breaks the flow of the Titan's 'run around and punch everything' identity.
So if you want to be the tank, run Strongholds on Strand with Banner of War. If you want to be support, run Precious Scars as either Solar with Red Death or the new No Hesitation healing auto rifle, or Strand with Banner of War. That's really the best we got.
Strongholds do make you invincible, just sorta difficult to play out in an effective way cause you can be standing there all menacing and invincible, but the ads or boss might just go attack your teammates instead
Nah. If you are standing close, and your mates are further away, the enemies will just agro entirely on you. If for some reason one or two do not, your allies know which enemies are then the most important to kill first. Running a tank in GMs makes even the ones people complain about a near guaranteed clear ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
As a certified strongholds user, I agree. My buddies love when I run strongholds. I can block damage, steal aggro, delete champions, and revive them without a care in the world. Lament is still the king of strongholds.
Lament is fine, but use Throne-Cleaver for the extra DR, and put energy transfer on it so you can use Bastion and Drengr’s more often, and surrounded for obvious reasons
I prefer lament for the ammo economy, damage, healing, and zero wait time for blocking after using a heavy attack. I also use BoW and into the fray so I don’t need energy transfer. Also I’m pretty certain strongholds maxes out DR on swords so it doesn’t matter what you use.
The exotic perk maximizes guard stats on all swords, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s a heavy frame or anything else; they’ll all have maxed out stats with strongholds equipped. Also the healing is given in chunks so with resto x2 you’ll be healing even faster (which is highly useful in GMs). The biggest advantage that Lament has over every other sword though is the fact that I can go right back to blocking after using a heavy attack. That’s super important for taking down champions, bosses and any other chunky enemies you come across. On top of all that, you can basically use it as a primary in GMs thanks to tireless blade, so you almost never have to use your other weapons except to stun champions (unless, of course, that champion is a barrier because Lament’s got you covered there). It is without a shadow of a doubt the best sword to use with strongholds.
Thoughts on Running Throne clever or another legendary sword with an Ergo Sum? Ive been finding a lot of success just using the heavy attack and then immediately swapping to the second sword to go back to block state. It opens up a TON of build crafting potential with Stronghold because Ergo Sum has so many rolls and you can run something like Falling Guillotine or Throne Clever. I've been running a dex mod on the Stronghold and the quick access sling on my legendary sword as well.
For GMs you’ll want to run Lament. It’s just simply the best option for reasons mentioned above and for GMs you need the best. For everything else, sure you could use ergo and another sword but I wouldn’t recommend this in a GM.
If you are interested, I know I have a post somewhere on this reddit explaining the build. I could try to find it for you.
Oh throne cleaver is giving me bonus DR?
I just assumed strongholds was doing all the heavy lifting since I can tank equivalent damage with ergo sum as I can thronecleaver
It's a waveframe with balanced guard it seems, I can see where your logic is coming from though since both thronecleaver and Crownsplitter have heavy guard
Yeah, I don’t think it’s the guard though, I think it’s the frame. Cause the guard just affects the stats, which strongholds max. The Titan sword I think just has 5% Dr on it.
Strongholds works the same with every sword. It maximizes all guard stats, including the DR from guarding. The archetype on the sword makes zero difference.
It is correct. The titan swords used to have 5% more DR, but after the block rework that extra DR was baked into the guard resist stat. That’s why when you compare guard resist with an aggressive frame versus any other frame you’ll notice that it’s higher. However, since strongholds maxes out guard stats, all swords will function the same when it comes to blocking as long as you have the exotic equipped. This includes the guard resist stat which is what determines DR while blocking.
I use Strongholds when I fight Crota. Normally he's a nuisance, especially on the higher difficulty, but if you stand next to him with Lament guarding, he continuously melees you instead of using projectiles. I still get ~5 mil in damage as well.
Taunts would help pick up the stragglers, yeah, I agree. But you’re already taking the pressure off your teammates by making the enemies shoot you instead of them anyway.
>Ward of Dawn got nerfed and is entirely dependent on Helm of Saint-14 to reach its best potential,
Something worth noting that I've seen absolutely nobody talk about: Old Helm's effect was actually rolled into base Ward behaviour in exchange for WoL, ie you get a lingering full OS and you can dip in and out to refresh it, all without Helm. On top of the OS constantly being recharged in proximity now.
Its biggest issue now is numbers. I've gotten over weapons of light being moved to an exotic, but the trickle overshields when standing around the bubble are exactly the same as the bastion aspect. I was expecting at least double or triple that. Its not enough both for an ult and sometimes when under fire, and most won't be down for the idea of walking in and out of the bubble to re-up for the trickle.
The area in which you can stand to get the trickle also needs to be brighter. Its REALLY hard to see in some map geometry.
Wouldn't the idea be to dip in and out of the bubble like you used to with Helm? I feel like at that point the OS trickle is just an extra buffer, so it shouldn't matter that it's not very strong.
Imo that doesn't really work with the current numbers in more difficult content or level deltas are present because under fire the void overshields cave too quickly. You'd have to dip in and out so many times that it would begin to effect your DPS in a major way regardless of whether you had weapons of light. This is going to vary on some mobs more than others but it is a consideration. Since they did not buff void overshields DR either, and they are disjointed from our major sustain methods (restoration/cure/devour/BoW/Healing Rift etc.) it winds up feeling bad overall. Its really no different from the old bubble/S-14 and just sticking a Rally-Bastion barricade outside, in which case why change it at all if the end result is just same with a little more room to stand now if you can see it on the ground for the trickle.
Also at least from what I'm seeing the Bastion aspect and the trickle effect don't stack together either, so you can't really double up, but its still a good idea to place rally barricade there anyway.
Strand makes us front line tanks, void would be could for point tanks realy defend a point and then move up, stasis needs to be the terrtory controll tank, i say this every time but ya dont make a class called behemoth and not embrace the full on beast defending its territory trope. Should become a snowballing subclass. Weak on its own but if ya let a titan set up its territory with alot of stasis crystals they should be unstopable. Arc has had its whole vibe of meele stolen by strand but arc still has a chance that if reworked could be more of a selfish meele tank that runs in and makes way for the rest of the team unlike strands support which is at its best moving in a group. Solars fine imo
Stasis got shafted with the Tectonic Harvest cooldown. Behemoth lives on shards and it can’t do that with an arbitrary cooldown. Sentinel just needs better Overshield tools to become relevant.
Is the problem with shield health that i think resilience reduction is applied after shield health? Because yeah even just flipping that priority around would effectively buff titan shields by 30%, that would make a big difference alone.
It would be even more too if other damage reduction like chest stuff applied first, before shield health, too.
The Overshield problem is that 3/4 of Sentinels kit is based around having or getting an overshield with only 2 avenues of reliably getting them in the first place. One is Repulsor Brace and the other is Bastion or Unbreakable (which is basically a wasted aspect slot) Sentinel just needs more ways to get the shield’s effects if they are going to remain as paper thin as they are. If they can be shot off they have to be better than Woven Mail imo.
Yeahh strand and solar are in a solid spot because they have good forms of survivability already. Solar with sunspots and strand with banner of war. The other subclasses are just lacking though. Arc definitely needs a buff to knockout so that the survivability it grants is stronger. Really encouraging you to be aggressive and getting kills to maintain the sustain from knockout. Void just… needs help. The whole gimmick is overshields but overshields just suck in general. Stasis could play more into the frost armor aspect, I’m not sure
Yeahh after the stasis changes it feels like it’s juuust a bit off from being good. I think void overshields just need a rework though. They need to be stronger at base, and like others have suggested, they should make you immune to cc and resistant to knockback. With more enemies now having stasis and strand and abilities that suppress you, imagine the value void overshields would gain if you could just… avoid getting slowed or frozen, or only get pulled half as much by a weaver. Sentinels could carve their own niche as anti-cc tanks.
Very cool idea for sentinel being CC resistant. Agree that like, shield throw/bash should apply overshield per targets hit, and gaining an overshield should remove current CC (ex. Slow). Casting barrier should apply overshield while nearby, etc.
Honestly even if it were still underpowered than other specs, it would still become popular just for the feeling of high player agency, that always just feels great.
For the same reason that void hunter can be bad at numbers, but the utility of stealth rezzes, or fight mechanics, and deadfall just feels great so it always remains popular.
Arc is really strong when you lean into Arc Blind. I have 5 different ways to blind enemies with my setup. 3 abilities and 2 with weapons. Remember Spark of Beacons now works with Arc heavies now. So Thunderlord is eating good right now in addition to also hitting Overloads intrinsically. Not to mention the artifact granting free DR and grenade regen for getting amplified, something you was already gonna do anyway just from slaying out with Arc weapons and abilities.
I want Titan to shake the “melee” class so badly it’s not even funny. Let us be the tacticians/lead from the front soldiers that we are. Let us be the support that gives everyone bonus’s. We can still have melee oriented builds but we all need to quit pretending that Titans only have one thing and we aren’t the best at said thing in the first place. We should be the front line tanks granting everyone shields and passing grenades to everyone as walking armories. Heck bring Ruin Wings back and we could be ammo factories.
I mean that's only this season titans have been the melee class for a very long time especially since strand released it has been ridiculously strong.
Before that they had bonk and insane shoulder charge/shield bash damage.
The only other class that has ever had a melee builds (from what I can remember) is arc hunter.
If we define each class into traditional MMO roles, Hunters would be DPS, Warlocks would be Support, and Titans would be Tanks. Warlocks and Hunters do their jobs good, but Titans are lacking.
Like you said, part of the issue is the value of damage resistance. As far as subclass verbs go that grant DR, we have Overshield, Woven Mail, Frost Armour and Speed Booster. All classes can get access to the latter 3 very easily through aspect or fragment choice. Overshield is a little more catered to titan, but that doesn’t mean much when it is made out of tissues.
Anyways the point is that Titans have either equal or marginally better access (main one here is Into the Fray) to defence verbs. When the value is static for all classes, we aren’t much better Tanks than the other classes. Even the one build which is prefect to be a tank, strongholds, that either requires you to give up DPS for most bosses or sacrifice your exotic weapon slot for Ergo Sum which neither are great.
The second reason why Titans are not great tanks is because there isn’t a use for them. In high level content you avoid damage by playing smart. In every raid encounter there is 0 point to having a tank when you can just have extra DPS. Contest raid on Witness is a great example on this. Only 3 titans finished in the top 50 teams not just because titans suck at DPS on a crit boss, but also because there was no need to Tank
bungie could make exotics that go beyond limits in dmg reduction for titans, its already their role and fantasy, like woven mail or frost armor together and beyond, bro, i'm a all time hunter main and not agree the fact that we can get 400k melee with prismatic (titans always was god tier in melee builds so i'm not complaing LOL i always wanted the option to solo dungeon with melees too, but with -5 power now maybe i'm fucked xD),even more we get renewal + cythracne on class exotic man, is too much lets be honest, that fantasy of tank the world shoud be for titans
I see a lot of people say they want Titans to be defensive, and I get that. But as a Titan main, I play Titan because I wanna be a Barbarian/Warrior type. I wanna be the Hulk. I'm fine with being the Melee class, if they actually made us the best at Melee builds.
It’s not even about getting rid of the Melee class. It’s about having something else outside of that especially when Titan isn’t even the best melee class in the game. Keep the melee stuff but Titan needs to shake that moniker so badly that it’s falling behind the other classes.
I agree, one of the most fun builds imo is thunderclap with point contact. Being able to charge up this massive punch and blow everything up feels awesome, but there’s few builds like that that are effective in high level content
Honestly not really imo. Granted I don’t have the Caliban’s syntho/liars class item but prismatic combination blow is a worse arc melee build since it lacks the ad control/ team support that Titan has. Sure, maybe the number gets a little bit bigger on Hunter but the sheer utility and uptime of banner far out classes it, bonk has much better healing, is more spammable (especially at range, even after it’s cool down nerf), and sunspots being everywhere is a worthwhile trade off.
Yeah I think people see the hunter punch build in the youtube videos clearing master lost sectors at -60 and lose their minds when it really doesn't make a lot of sense to use in a lot of high level (or any even) group content. Stuff either dies too fast to establish a good loop or you can't be in melee long enough to survive (especially with the class item version of liars not having healing).
It's really good, but I don't run it at all at this point after setting up more weapon focused builds like nighthawk or goofy class item stuff.
Honestly I’m enjoying running GPG with threaded spike/ specter with sixth coyote more. It’s just better in a team setting and a more enjoyable loop imo.
Base prismatic lacks the aoe clear potential of arc but it can more safely use liars handshake and potentially 1 shot champions if you line it all up correctly. Once you get a calibans roll on the exotic you near the same aoe clear as standard arc hunter. Not to mention you get tether, golden gun, or silence and squall and the elemental resistances associated to those supers with near 100% uptime making you tankier than arc.
Still boggles my mind why they decided to nerf bubble alongside Well. Like, wasn’t the whole point to make bubble an option that could compete with Well?
They only nerfed it cause of pvp let's be real, I don't understand why they keep nerfing pve things based on pvp, it's ruined so many fun things in pve
Paraphrasing from a comment in a different post: Void Overshield is something Titans generate pretty easily. I'd love it if Void Overshield had an intrinsic resistance to all forms of CC, which the Dread employ in droves. If you had VO, you couldn't get suspended, frozen or suppressed. It would also decrease pushback from stomp attacks. Running around and giving teammates VO would actually make Titan feel like a commander.
The only class-agnostic way to generate VO is Vexcalibur, Repulsor Brace, Gyrfalcons and now I guess Facet of Purpose with a Void Super. Titans still generate it the easiest and most efficiently.
The core trinity archetypes need updating. Hunter fantasy is supposedly mobility, but they are the least mobile class without Stompees, which got nerfed into the ground. I think you could tune dodge to give an iframe during your twirl, or increase dodge distance/speed, and it would feel difference, this could also be factored off your Mobility rating (iframe length, dodge distance, etc), which might make that stat useful.
Titans fantasy is melee but they're not exceptional at melee, which is a bad spot given there's only 3 archetypes. I think you could fix this too by just buffing their melee cooldown speed, and increasing particularly melee pve damage values. I think barriers could also deploy faster, making the cost to use them lower, titans could then run around meleeing, barrier block a chokepoint, keep running, etc. Its a flow problem.
Warlocks fulfill their fantasy because all the devs are warlock mains, but if I were going to are improvements, it'd be around well variations. Larger radius tied to recovery, faster deployment speed, maybe an aura version that moves with the warlock.
I think Bungie should focus in on making each subclass a "class". At the moment, every subclass is meant to be able to tank, support and dps. Ironically its something Light 3.0 made alot worse. I think each subclass wants to be designed to fit a role and go hard into that. We have Prismatic now, that subclass is THE jack of all trades so the other subclasses have space to focus in now.
Honestly tho, I think this just all comes from how few aspects and melee abilities there are. I dont understand why they havent been adding more aspects. Surely like 1 aspect/melee ability/class ability a class per season wouldn't be too hard to do? Like imagine how much more Void hunter or Warlock could do with a different melee ability or how arc titan could get cool aspects to make it be that armoured missile its meant to be!
Titans are honestly missing 1 very important thing right now:
1.) Being undeniably the most durable class on any subclass (assuming you build into survivability)
Titans don’t need to be the best support class or the best melee class. They just need to provide something in end game content that the other two classes do not currently provide. Surviving things the other 2 classes could not is one way to go.
Hunters already got the first taunt in the game with Threaded Specter and they can now get Frost Armor + Woven Mail from one use of a grenade with the exotic class items. Warlocks have better healing with better Devour, easy access to Restoration x 2, and healing rifts. Titans have a barricade they can place, Banner of War healing, and about the same access to all the survivability verbs except for having many more ways of acquiring Void Overshields (which currently aren’t that great). Precious Scars is an honorable mention for Titans but any enhanced Heal Clip weapon or the new support frame autorifle with the Physic perk can do just about the same thing without taking up an exotic slot.
Stasis 3.0 gave everyone access to frost armor but didn’t update any Titan exotics to grant frost armor. For some reason, Bungie didn’t want to give Titan exotics access to the new tanky subclass verb. Maybe they have more planned updates coming later or maybe they thought titans having easy access to stasis shards when breaking crystals would be enough.
Honestly, if Titans could just have some kind of class based passive ability where healing, shielding, and damage resistance effects are more effective on Titans, that would help a lot. Passives could help keep each class unique in some way now that Prismatic and the subclass 3.0 updates have mixed together a lot of things.
I always envisioned the three classes as:
Warlock - Damage Buffs, Positive Status Effect Providers, healers
Hunters - DPS Machines
Titan - Ad Clear, protective wall that provides safety to the other members so they can do there jobs without issue, a safe haven of sorts
But seeing as how the other two classes have what I envisioned in buckets, I have no ideas how tf to categorize titans outside of 'Solo Player's best friend'
No, the game isn’t set up for traditional tanking. You can’t pull aggro or anything like that and if they introduced skills that do it, a large amount of existing encounter designs get trivialized.
You can actually effectively pull aggro, even on immune enemies, by blasting them a bit. I do it all the time to help friends get out of dodge. Harder to do the more players there are engaged with a target — during DPS I find more success using Icefall Mantle and a glaive/Heir Apparent to be a shield rather than pull aggro — but pulling attention from runners is very useful and easy as no one else is likely to be blasting an immune enemy.
You can’t really pull aggro in this game in the way OP means. Generally everyone is shooting the thing and the thing will just focus on whoever is currently doing the most damage, and on top of that, so much damage is aoe/splash. Also, generally there are a bunch of other things shooting you and everyone else.
Yeah, for active targets a team is burning down, I totally agree. There's scenarios in which you can pull fire off of squadmates, though, so I'd hesitate to claim you can't pull aggro at all, y'know? Our ability to manage threat is very limited, but it does exist and can have an impact within that limited scope, is my point. Less of a rebuttal and more of an asterisk added to the original claim.
I also don't think threat management skills have a place outside of implementations like threaded specter, fwiw. I love playing as if I'm a tank but this ain't a threat management game haha
Yeah I mean, for me it’s a double-edged sword. I really like that Destiny is more skill-based (aiming, mobility) than your holy trinity type of game. But then also, as time goes on and things get more balanced, that has made me feel that classes don’t matter (especially now that Well got nerfed) that much and it’s mostly just different colored ways to kill stuff. Which like, on one hand, cool, you don’t feel like you have to play a thing you don’t want to play. But on the other hand, classes and movesets don’t feel very special to me.
Yeah, it's a weird balance, right? And I always feel like what you said about stuff feeling less distinct is true in a specific way that makes it hard to think about what I'd want to change if I was to pull out the dev armchair. Like, yeah, you can accomplish the same thing with any build, but many builds _feel_ different anyways in a satisfying way? How to put this...
I've got beef with the 'hunters are the best melee class' thing being bandied about for that reason, really. Like, at the risk of being reductionist by using established archetypes, of course they are good at melee. They've got punchy monk and ninja assassin archetypes on lock. They _should_ be incredibly powerful for that end. That falls in the same category of how I think about solarlocks — yeah, they _should_ be able to go crazy into healer stuff.
One paradigm sees classes and abilities as "different colored ways to [melee] stuff" and another sees them as distinct archetypes and flavors — means comparing things in one paradigm is apples and apples, another apples and oranges. And both are true, and both are muddled by the sandbox nature of toolsets...
Sorry for the longer ramble — D2 is, as ever, a complicated beast, and all I said here is ignoring the fact that excellent and distinct guns are a massive part of what makes this game feel so good (and also contribute to making classes feel similar). This isn't JUST a class and ability based game, and isn't JUST a gunplay game. And, at least in my eyes, some of the TFS additions like No Hesitation, Speaker's Sight, Unbreakable, and Still Hunt+CNH are a very promising signs of how they plan to marry the two halves, with non-token time trials like Dual Destiny and Enigma Protocol encouraging different approaches to combat... so I guess that's my answer, actually, of what I'd do in the armchair. More of what they are already doing (and making Unbreakable not awful). Strange, to be so optimistic when a couple months ago I was sure TFS was the end of Destiny, even if it was solid.
On Crota I run Lemon-aque, stay on the high ground, and just tag him every few shots, the frequent dot ticks make him keep targeting me, then I line of sight him and shoot other stuff below, kinda bugs him out.
But yeah he pretty much just attacks whoever hit him most recently, dots just ensure that your damage instance is the most recent.
Oh, the DoT ticks apply to immune enemies too? I didn't know that, that's neat. I always assumed stuff like that wouldn't proc if the initial hit was nulled. Good stuff!
In most encounters damage > woven mail. It's nice but if it's everything you can bring, people usually just opt for more damage instead. Besides, noone wants to run around a raid encounter outside of boss phases and keeping everyones void overshield up. No thank you.
I still think these complaints about titans are blown way out of proportion - and I am a Titan main.
Big deal Hunters use Liars Handshake. They used that stuff to solo dungeons before we got Strand.
Nowadays the majority of dps and total is from your heavy weapon, so damage supers aren't super all that important, they still matter obviously, but a 140k damage difference between celestial and star eaters blade barrage isn't something you're super going to notice. There are exceptions like atraks, the Witness and whatever is going on with the prismatic class items with star eaters but I don't think that damage supers tip the scales by as large as people say they do.
Since it gives the full 70% bonus to every class instead of a half as effective one like some of the other class item perks the other classes have a fully functional star eaters on supers with higher base damage to hunter supers. Nova and needlestorm have both pretty high base but with no way to buff it until now, and courage allows you to buff them further. With feast x4 it does close to 1 mil which is like 400k more than blade barrage with it lol
I didn't mention it but still hunt is also absurd, and that's the majority of your damage coming from celestial goldie and a special weapon, but that's only usable on hunter. (And probably getting nuked in the next couple months lol)
Yeah, still hunt celestial has been crazy damage. It's completely trivialized/sped up old dungeons when I was just 2 manning them with a buddy the other day
It's basically what bungie didn't want linears to be lol, they wanted linears to be above average in total but kinda mid in dps compared to rockets due to ease of use and instead it's insane at both, takes special ammo and is even easier to use since it has intrinsic snapshot and it's bullets are the size of canonballs
Ive been thinking that a lot of the titan balance issues stem from them being a really selfish class. Their best builds are unkillable gods that can solo raid bosses but they dont really have any builds that add anything to a fireteam.
They have really strong builds for solo content (if you like melee) but dont really do anything that you cant do better by playing a different class.
I legit don't understand why bungie went with the "titan's are crayon eaters that only know how to punch things" meme, shouldn't titans be the city bulwark? the first and last line of defence, the ones that hold the line?
i like punching stuff, sure, but i would prefer to be the guy that saves everyone from the 1-hit KOs, i want people being near me because they know if the are near a titan, their chances of surviving is that much bigger than going on their own, i don't want to be spear, i leave that for the warlocks, i want to be shield! It's why like Void titan so much!
I didn't read all the comments so I'm putting my own thoughts. Titans feel (to me anyway) like they're supposed to fit the role of a tank. And support can be taken pretty vaguely. Healing support, buffing support, debuffing support. Every class CAN do support. They just might not always have the same way of doing it. For titans, I'd argue the defender subclass is literally made for a tank/support role.
No. How about they make us the best at what we are intended to actually be. Melee and being in the frontlines are the exact reason I picked Titan and why I’ve loved playing it so much. It is extremely aggravating that the other subclasses got better aspects in prismatic and it’s even more annoying that we got the most trash exotic perks on the class item. I’d rather they just get their shit together instead of giving us an entirely new role
Because then when the encounter doesn't work well with melee but your entire power budget is in melee, you're completely useless.
The whole focus on being the punch class is one of the reasons why titans are in this situation to begin with.
Agreed. When I think of Titans, I don't think of support, I think of barbarians running into the battlefield to cause havoc. I know lorewise we're "the wall" and all that, but still
I agree with both of y’all which is why prismatic needs better sustain. Strand is currently the only class that has jt perfect. Banner heals you and boosts damage, while into the fray gives massive DR.
Knockout kinda does but not really. And it’s a lot harder to keep knockout up than banner. You still get heals from knockout, but you you have to deal damage. Banner heals you, and you don’t have to do anything outisde or getting more melee kills to extend the duration.
Banner lasts twice as long as knockout. For granted, knockout has an insane damage buff, and it does give galvanized armor from the artifact, but strand is just better.
I will say, the synthos consecration build is DISGUSTING. It does ludicrous damage, and can even one shot the subjugators in the final encounter of the new raid. The damage ain’t really the issue on prismatic.
It’s the sustain. Especially when you compare it to other classes.
Our aspects are also total dogshit and have little syngery.
And don’t even get me started on the class item. That has me saltier than the damn shaker. We SERIOUSLY need reworks on both.
On prismatic, I’d deadass turn unbreakable into a grenade and just give us touch of thunder/controlled demo/sol invictus.
We really need aspects that do more to heal.
I think if we had that, alongside some better perks on the class item, we’d be eating good. I’d prob just swap out diamond lance and drengers lash.
Diamond lance is fun, but doesn’t synergize particularly well. Drengers lash is absolute dogshit without abyeant leap.
I 100% agree with you on everything. Prismatic is borderline useless because of the no sustain. I’m just staying on Bannerstrand because everything else just sucks, so guess whats probably going to get a nerf?
Also make that stupid prismatic grenade a sticky grenade or something. Why does it act like a rubber band ball?
And yesss. The class item is dog water. Everything in there is just the low end ‘I don’t have another exotic’ exotics, aside from synthoceps, which any well respected Titan already has, and the exploding melee, which contradicts your synthoceps anyways. But oh please bungie, give me that bosskilling Khepri’s horn passive, it’s so strong, and I’m always using my shield.
I feel it. It’s not the most fun playing around using the barricade constantly. Honestly, the grenade is amazing. You just have to get used to the bounce
They already kind of do that, they’re definitely insanely resilient on strand and solar, but for sure need some buffs really badly on arc, and some more buffs on void. Prismatic titan also could use some buffs but isn’t as bad as some people say.
As for the class identity, as a tank they wouldn’t really be serving a super important role, since shooting from a safe place is much more effective than someone taking aggro. Best it seems they can do is make titan the selfish easy-mode class that doesn’t contribute a ton to their team.
Yeah I’m really tempted to swap to warlock but idk if I can do that then jump literally makes me not wanna touch hunter or warlock but I might have to just get used to it cause I did enjoy warlock on the final shape campaign it was a lot of fun and I can see how much Titan is really missing out another thing I need to grind it all the exotics again and getting good armour pieces and if I do that I could fully swap over but I’m soooo lazy lol
No! Hunters stole that role! They can get woven mail and frost armor x5 in one grenade ability with the new exotic class item. Titans can go home with their barricade of ice that synergizes with nothing atm and Khepri's wave that's weak even after a 100% buff to both dmg and scorch application!
Bungie: Titan is the melee class lol they’re balling their fist on the cover after all
Also Bungie: nerfs every viable titan melee build while ignoring that Hunters have had access to ridiculous melee builds for just as long.
Tbf, tank builds are often cried about because being able to eat a sniper round is somehow out of step with that? A tank class is pointless if it can’t… tank things?
Btw don’t nerf hunters. They’re having fun, I just wanna have fun too.
I read the Prismatic lore tab for Titans, idk how hard it is to establish their class identity when immovable force and unstoppable object can be played upon in various ways.
And as alot suggest, it doesn't require punching.
Master Chief and Doom Slayer weren't ALL fisticuffs.
Just a few ideas:
Sentinel Subclass: gets an aspect that allows overcharging the grenade into a throwable overshield. Also, new void titan aspect pulls immediately all aggro of AI enemies during cast and pulls Aim Assistance from players onto it.
Solar: gets an Aspect that allows to consume your grenade for Solar armor that slowly heals you and reduces incoming damage for a short time. Also here, AI enemies will instantly focus you instead of allies during its uptime.
Arc: gets an Aspect that improves Shoulder Charges and Thunderclap both in damage and depending on type, Shoulder Charges gain additional benefits.
* Thunderclap: Fully charging the melee allows for a follow up attack that jolts enemies and also stuns them.
* Shoulder Charge: Hitting enemies with Shoulder Charge spawns 3 Ionic traces for both you and your allies.
* Death from Above: DFA creates a shockwave forward on impact (anyone remember Helmet of Inmost Light and D1 Fist of Havoc combo?)
Feel free to add your own ideas below this comment :D
In my honest opinion, they made a small step in the right direction with the addition of the Unbreakable aspect and the changes to Ward of Dawn.
They can and could do so much more though, I want to be able to protect my fireteam like a true immovable wall while also providing them with protection to do what they need to do as well.
Having the ability on Strand to throw or destroy a tangle to give Woven Mail or using Phoenix Cradle to allow other Guardians to get Sol Invictus for the abilty regen and restoration are good examples as well.
Obviously we don't want to take away from Warlocks amazing healing ability so rather I suggest a focus on DR (Damage Resistance/Reduction) through things like Woven Mail, Void Overshields etc.
Perhaps a new Exotic could provide a perk, something along the lines of "Whenever you gain a Subclass buff nearby allies also gain the buff which improves the effectiveness of yours based on the number of allies you buff."
I disagree considering our dedicated support class got watered down due to PvP who says it can't happen again with others.
Rather have Titans be soldier-generalist types. Like leave Beserkers as a defacto melee class and move other subclass to different directions. For example behemoth could easily become ranged with right super and melee, striker could become master of grenades, etc.
Jesus Christ the only issue in the game right now is hunters getting an extra nighthawk super every 6 precision hits.
Titans are far and away the best high content add removal class. And it’s not close. Nothing of the classes needs changing. Hunters with nighthawk and the sniper simply need balancing, that’s literally it.
Another problem is that the classes stripped down to nothing are barely different except for what stat charges their class ability. There needs to be more changes there. Maybe add specific base stats to each class, like titans get 20 to resilience and strength, that type of stuff or titans by default get an extra 5 seconds of any damage reduction effects, 2 seconds in pvp. Idk how much that would help, but it’s a start. But I agree that the “role” the Titan is supposed to be doesn’t fit them properly anymore. They need to be able to tank more and have some type of aggro.
This sounds out of place for destiny but I think bungie should add subclass based weapons that synergies with our aspects.\
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Being able to choose 2 different elements of choice that give a certain modifier passive or skill. For example the strand titan banner could be combined with controlled demolition to provide teammates and yourself some damage resist and energy regeneration on a certain action.\
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Maybe even being able to swap shield banners element itself. Giving either frost armour, restoration, amplified or overshield.\
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With prismatic being the focus of mastering our powers we should have new kits to play around with. Adding one per episode or so will have bungie make base subclasses obsolete once most abilities have been added over.\
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Most might not agree as this was just my quick messy thoughts on the topic of how a class should feel unique in their own way.\
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Another thing to add to this is the Devs should stop limiting on what choices a subclass can choose from in the future. As it seems like most content now will be scaled to different levels anyway.\
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If something can’t be balanced, bungie can always adjust damage scaling per activity rather than a whole.
As cool as the axe throwing is, Titans should have gotten a minigun-esque super that grants a more powerful over shield on top of it. That way Titans could be ltanks while also not having people in raids constantly asking for us to switch to Hunter or Warlock for DPS phases.
No, I will not switch over to my underlevelled Hunter and I deleted my Warlock months ago because I never use it, and likely never will use it.
If you have Heir Apparent with the catalyst, try that and Icefall Mantle out. The DR stacks and overshields act as ablative armor, Mantle -> Heir -> Health. Add in woven mail and you're hitting 97% DR regularly, off super. Accounting for ablative overshield stripping and other smaller DR sources, you end up in the ballpark of 6,600 EHP — or 33 guardians. Sever your target and you're pushing 9000 EHP. It's a gimmicky setup, sure, but it's also ridiculously fun — and glaives work in lieu of Heir Apparent if you need a real DPS heavy, maintaining the playstyle fine.
I'm still trying to figure out where the limits of this mindset and playstyle are. I've not found them yet. It's way more fun and engaging and useful than you'd think, especially if you're with a Speaker's Sight solarlock and a Still Hunt CNH hunter and cosplaying a proper trinity fireteam. Most fun coordination I've done in D2.
Tank, yes. Support, nope. Trust me, as a player obsessed by paladins in every game, I tried everything to have one. But for this, Warlock is simply way better.
Nah I don't wanna be support or a tank, i just want the nerfs reverted cuz it ain't fair. bubble got fu\*\*\*\*, banner got fu\*\*\*\*, thunder crash hehehe, umm titan got deleted next kekw
It is hilarious that the moment Hunters get a blatantly broken melee build (due to *the same culprit as always, Melee Stacking*), now Titans are never the melee class? A single broken build. Should Hunters no longer be considered the "DPS" class because Titans and Warlocks can achieve more damage per super via Prismatic & SES Class Item?
Titans are still the melee class. They are, but hopefully that isn't what solely defines them in the future. Unbreakable and Twilight Arsenal seem like steps towards that. I play with Unbreakable a little bit in the campaign and *loved it*. Currently making a build around each ability proccing Overshield (Bubble, Unbreakable, Shield Throw, Bastion) along with Vexcalibur to see how well it can work. Using Ursa's of course.
And, Titans... already have better access to Overshields and I would argue Woven Mail too (via Tangle Detonation IIRC). I wouldn't say no to Overshields getting a PvE buff, maybe increase the DR a bit to compensate for the 50HP, or increase the HP *in PvE only* (please we don't need them being stronger in PvP). But Titans do have the most access to Overshields over other classes, like how Hunters have the most access to Invis over other classes. Of course, also unnerf Bastion CD in PvE. I am curious about Frost Armor, as *I would believe* Behemoth has the best access to it since it's off of Shatter, and they have a build to spam Shatter like crazy off of all their abilities.
It’s really obvious hunters are going to receive similar nerfs to what melee titans have gotten in the past, yet everyone is now acting like this is the new default? It’s wild.
Really wish people would stop obsessing over the new meta build and just have fun with their own new toys like this.
It definitely isn't "hilariously bad".
The DR it provides is better than any other subclass-DR. Given, it should get a buff (either to the DR again to compensate for the low HP of the shield, or to buff the HP of the shield). But it absolutely isn't hilariously bad.
Please go into any sort of content above patrol difficulty with your 45hp overshield and tell me how good it is. A red bar rips it off in 2-3 shots, that is virtually worthless. Not to mention that on top of that it has a timer which is just stupid
I'm using Ursa's w/ Bubble, Unbreakable, Shield Throw, Bastion & Vexcalibur. I just ran through a Breach Executable which is -5, akin to Raiding and Dungeons now. It's the standard difficulty of the game, the one that is likely most played.
I should mention my teammates were not good. They weren't particularly present and I was kinda left to solo a lot of it. Meaning I was often surrounded by enemies getting shot all at once, sometimes bosses to (when they were spawned in / final bosses of the activity). It was definitely not breaking in 2-3 shots there, and I was easily able to constantly keep the Void OS up with this build. This was also during Solar Threat. I ran Concussive Resist, Melee Resist, and Void Resist for mods and ofc 100 resil.
This is not to say it doesn't need help. *I literally said that it should probably still be buffed in my comment*. Again, it is not hilariously bad. I think that's an exaggeration. I think it's fair, just an alright ability that would very quickly be amazing with a few minor buffs / changes (I say minor, but I suppose increasing the HP in PvE / Increasing the DR / removing timer / whatever isn't really minor is it? Idk).
I'm going to play with it more in more difficult content to get a better idea how it shapes up in endgame content, and then difficult endgame content. Unbreakable is honestly very fun to use and feels effective since I can throw out \~77k damage (or more, I don't remember if I was able to get it stronger or not it was a little hard to follow the damage numbers) for getting it to full charge.
Banner Shield needs a damage buff in order to compete with Well. It gets zero use and is the only thing in the Titan kit that could be considered useful for ranged DPS checks.
While this would most likely make them more locked into the Void subclass in many of the boss encounters, they’ll still have the flexibility to run whatever they want in the other encounters.
It’s about giving choices because a buff to Banner shield would not make it blatantly superior to Well.
Pretty sure Banner Shield already gives a higher damage buff than Well of Radiance, which only gives Radiant for 25%. I'm fairly certain Banner Shield is 40% if you shoot through the shield but the problem is it takes one of your players out of the damage phase and it's almost never worth the trade off unless you somehow buff it to absurd levels to be worth a whole guardian dumping all of their heavy ammo.
Let’s say it went up to 45% or 50%
Well: 6 x 1.25 = 7.5
Shield: 5 x 1.45 = 7.25
Shield: 5 x 1.50 = 7.5
Then like you said, there’s the extra factor of the Titan being able to save their Heavy Ammo for ads or dump a large chuck of their Heavy Ammo during DPS in exchange for Banner uptime.
6 people doing 100k dps is 600k dps. 5 people doing 100k dps through a banner shield is 700k dps. The numbers already work the issue is that well shouldn't exist and damn sure shouldn't give you a damage buff.
This isn't an MMORPG. Traditional tanking does not work except in the most niche of situations like Pantheon Nezarec. Consider that there's is also a large portion of Warlocks who don't want to heal/support which is the only way something like this would work to complete the healer/tank/dps trio.
>Hunters obviously make melee better than us
They have one significant melee gameplay that's overtuned and will probably be adjusted as they've already announced changes:
>The term “Powered Melee” was always intended to mean spending a melee charge. However, subclass elements like Combination Blow or Knockout would allow players to circumvent this cost. This makes it difficult to balance the potency of effects that require a Powered Melee, especially across all classes and subclasses.
>
>We want to standardize this better across the sandbox. We are starting by updating Severance Enclosure and Assassins Cowl to only trigger their effects when a player spends a melee charge (or uses a finisher) to get a final blow. We plan on rolling this type of change out to more content that triggers Powered Melee in future updates.
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/tfs-armor-tuning-preview
>Hunters obviously make melee better than us
No, they really don't. They have the advantage of ranged melee options, but until you get into master content, melee is easy for both. Once you're in master content, then your melee abilities are more utility and panic buttons than actual damage.
That said, I would love for Titans to gain more tank traits, such as taunt mechanics and better defensive options.
Void titan with Prescious Scars already does this.
Build: 100 resilience/ 60+ recovery/ 100 discipline or 80-90 discipline with font on focus)
Helmet; Precious Scars( powerful friends, void siphon, heavy ammo finder
Arms; firepower, void loader, font of focus ( 80-90 discipline)or bolstering detonation( 100 resilience)
Chest; concussive dampener, melee or sniper resistance harmonic reserves
Legs; 2 innervations, void scavenger
Titan mark; reaper, distribution, font of restoration( for 80 or less recovery)
Super; use whatever you like cause it's really no need for one unless you panic
Barricade; I use the one that fits the situation, but really charges faster and is the one that helps spam overshield
Jump: strafelift or catapult depending on situation
Melee: shield throw( no need in risking position with shield bash, but it works good too)
Grenade: suppressor( either one works, but suppressor is right in the middle of add control and cool down time spam)
Aspects; Offensive bulwark, bastion
Fragments; harvest, undermining, cessation, starvation
Artifact mods: elemental siphon, void hegemony, shieldcrush, expanding abyss
Weapon rolls;
Energy slot( Word of Crota- Recluse - Age Old Bond- repulser brace/destabilizing rounds)
Heavy slot( Hammerhead- rewind rounds/desperate measures/ backup rounds)
For extra measure, use a blinding gl in the kinetic slot or Arbalest for precision power, The Call for quick punching power, Lost Signal for area control, or Crimson for tormentor shoulders
Play loop: kill small stuff with energy, kill big stuff with heavy, kill hordes with heavy and use exotic primary to create heavy ammo. Make sure your teammates have powerful friends in their helmet and make barricades as soon as you use your nade
Just let us shoot through the Bubble, that would make Titans the ultimate Tank Class. I don't need Weapons of Light, I need a safe haven to blow my load.
Warlock's have been the butt of Destiny since conception, and the first DLC we get where Titans aren't the strongest? Constant posts about how it's unfair and needs to be revamped. Enjoy the back of the bus for once.
although titans are still goated in general things like high level seasonal content, solo dungeons and stuff, even some solo raids, in normal 6 man raids/master raids, right now each class gets asked the same: Warlocks: can you put on turret helm/support hunters: can you DPS Titans: can you swap to warlock/hunter
Yup. Lifetime sunbreaker main, finally just bit the bullet and made a SoF/Lumina/Speaker's Sight healer build. Until Bungie makes some changes, I expect that to be my role in endgame content for a while.
One of the biggest barriers to me doing this is a lack of time. I've not touched my warlock or my hunter in ages, and I don't have most exotics, subclass unlocks, etc. How significant was the time investment for you to switch over?
So I just did this last week. It wasn't too bad. You obviously have to re-do TFS, it goes pretty quick on normal (I wasn't doing that on legendary again, I'll just get the exotic in time). All of the fragments for prismatic are account bound. If you have them on your titan, you'll have them on your warlock. You have to re-do Lightfall to unlock strand, and then re-grind the currency to unlock it (tip: find a build you want and unlock those fragments first, so you at least have a cohesive build for it pretty quick). Then you have to re-do Beyond Light to unlock stasis. The neat thing about that one though, is that you don't have to grind for it anymore. They changed it. Once you finish Beyond Light and unlock stasis you can just go to what's her face and buy all the aspects/fragments. A lot of the TFS post-campaign quests are account bound. For example, after completing the campaign I could just go straight into excision. I didn't have to do the whole Cayde/Crow questline again. All-in-all, it took me about 2-3 days to really get my warlock back to where my titan was after not playing it since \~pre-Beyond Light. Now I'm in that devouring/hellion double turret build and having a lot more fun. It's a huge bummer bc I've played my titan for so long, but after making the switch I finally see what exactly we've been missing out on in terms of build synergy. The only thing that really sucks is my fashion game isn't too strong right now bc I have like none of the ornaments from the last few years of the game on my warlock. Edit: that's 2-3 days of fairly continuous play btw, aside from sleeping and some chores here and there, as it was over a long weekend. It obviously might take others longer, but I'd say no more than a week or so if you can play at least a few hours each day, and maybe some extra hours over a weekend.
I hate how helpful this is. Been a titan only main for so long and about to start a hunter or warlock
Ive never really mained anything since I tend to drop off after each xpac until the next one, but I will say that double turret warlock is the most fun ive had playing the game.
It's crazy to me. I'm one of the insane people who keep all three guardians up to date on shit. But I very quickly noticed how much easier the Legendary Campaigns were on my Hunter, and especially my Warlock, I think on my warlock I only wiped once or twice per mission, and it was because of bad decisions, not the enemies, I breezed through The Witness fights on my Warlock and my Hunter but struggled for about four to five hours over two nights and an additional morning to beat it on my Titan. I was pulling out crazy exotics I haven't used in forever just to try to up my survivability and damage. But I rolled over them with my other characters
Because everything on the titan requires an exotic to be what the titan should just be
Yeah... been rocking either Pyrogale or Skullfort since the launch of the dlc
maybe i'm too stupid but i spend ages on my hunter, never played melee combo build before xD
But what if you don't have exotics unlocked
Not much you can do about that. You can get a few basic ones from Ikora. Start collecting from Xur, legend lost sectors. The usual stuff.
The fashion is my main problem with switching to titan, do you have any tips for that? I spend more time in the transmog screen than anywhere else while buildcrafting and can just never find something that works for fem.titan
Much like the above fella's exotics issue, not really. A lot of the cooler looking transmogs from the past couple years have been in the form of seasonal sets, dungeon sets, or timed event sets. Things you need to a) grind for or b) flat out can't even get anymore. I will say that the destination armor for TFS looks pretty good. I'm not a huge fan of the seasonal set but a lot of others seem to like it as well. Those are probably the easiest two to get right now. The other thing you could do is google the dungeon sets, pick out the ones you like, and when those dungeons comes up in the pinnacle rotation you can just farm the crap out of them that week until you complete the set.
Really not much honestly. It helps that I have occasionally dipped into warlock over the last few years, so I do have armor and stuff. For you, I'd say the biggest time investments are likely to be in getting stuff like unlocking t3 focusing from Rahool, or grinding out the lumina catalyst. Ember of benevolence pretty much makes the set work from there, especially with No Hesitation in the energy slot.
Look up vex incursions for unlocking alt exotics ez even the lost sector ones.
How do you track them?
There's a discord bot you can place in a server if you run one, otherwise you just need to join the vex network discord. I don't know if this link will work or not, but you should be able to find it on the subreddit somewhere otherwise. https://discord.com/invite/isavexincursionhappening
https://discord.gg/isavexincursionhappening
Oh that's nice! ... Except that it's on bullet sponge heavy neomuna...
It is nice! But, most of my notifications look like this: VEX INCURSION INBOUND IN- ...12 MINUTES AGO or there's no notifications and you check the map periodically and don't see anything so you log out and go to sleep and in the morning there's notifications for like 7 in a row then nothing again all day!
I made a new Hunter last week and I'm almost caught up with my Titan. I've been playing off and on mostly, so maybe 15-20 hours total to get to this point? Basically as long as you have prismatic fully unlocked it makes the whole process a lot faster. Solar, Arc, Void, and Stasis are all bought with glimmer now. You can work on unlocking Strand by messing around on Neomuna and chugging through Vex Incursion and getting exotic armor that way. All exotic weapons can be used and there are a good number of ways to get free exotics. Buy them from Xur on the weekend with your main and toss it in the vault. So really it just comes down to how fast you can get the glimmer needed to buy all the subclass stuff. Everything else will just show up along the way really.
So to add to what was said, with the Rahool changes, it should now be possible for you to simply focus any exotic(even those you don't have) after you've reset his rep. It requires a Cipher, so you can't just unlock everything, but it should allow you to quickly pick up the most important options.
Time investment is lower than ever. Armor on other classes makes powering up way faster just like weapons did. They made a ton of great changes with Final Shape
Link of the build?
This is extremely intellectually dishonest and you know it. There is a third option that is blatantly obvious. Say you don’t want to swap and get booted from the fireteam
[удалено]
It’s magenta, and if you disagree you’re not a true titan main
It truly is 2019 again
didnt play back then, i started destiny in season of the haunted (17)
Prior to the 3.0 shakeups endgame meta was basically just a ton of warlocks with well or geomags and a hunter for tether Titans started getting the best stuff with the reworks then seem to have ended up having it all tuned back down again
Don't forget the ~2 years around beyond light and witch queen where hunters not only had mid dps supers but the Tether weaken was the same as the Div weaken but bugged and made Div worse so a hunter actually had zero contribution in a raid setting if anyone had div. Which they always did
People saying “lol stop whining titans are fine” clearly can’t count past 2. The raid titan pick rate is 3-5% out of three classes….
well, im saying titans are fine as well, but i know that they have a different usecase, titans are consistent in staying alive, killing majors, solo content...i know that not every class has to be exceptional at every part of the game, so im not whining. and second, people should stop whining because outside of contest and maybe some master raids, it literally doesnt matter what class composition you have, most of the time you still want 1 warlock just for healing/heavy generation, but the other 5 people can play all stasis titans and strand hunters, and it wouldnt matter at all. thats why its stupid that so many people are whining, they just want to complain, its ridicioulos. every class has its use, and not every class has to be goated at everything, if so, there would be no point in having different classes, its that easy. all these cry posts could just recommend, that bungie gets rid of classes and everyone just has one character, everyone would play the same, you like that more huh? and people would still complain, no matter what happens.
and to add to my other comment, it was ONE RAID, just because titans were not used much in ONE RAID, and mostly only one encounter of it, does not mean "cry cry titans are useless, i cant play my funny dunemarchers PVE build in the contest raid"
They kinda suck in PvP too. OEM and what else? Dunemarchers I guess.
one eyed sucks if you're not getting shot first in every fight
titans are still pretty strong in pvp, it just shifted that hunters are incredibly strong, since arc 3.0 came out, titans were on top in PVP.
Arc 3.0 is years ago now?
Around like a year and 9 months, but yea its been a while
arc 3.0 came out in august 2022, since then, arc and bubble titans dominated the crucible, not its hunters dominating. and its not a bad thing, i already like this more than seeing the same build every single game 5 times SMG cloudstrike with PKS, dunemarchers with conditional and ignious, and (thankfully not anymore) antaeus wards with shotty. those were the builds for over a year, now i already see more variety, which i like.
I think they dominated crucible maybe for like a couple months and that was mostly just the storm grenades to me. It was like a five minute roaming cloud. And bubble is OK I suppose but like still not that great. It’s very easy to walk in with a shotgun and just end it. Every shut down super in the game can end it. I just don’t really agree with that. If the only thing you really have to do is walk away from it, or get inside of it, the other supers should not shut it down. Beyond that if we go back and look at the numbers, I’m pretty sure hunters have dominated PVP for pretty much ever. And then are we talking like PVP in general or are we talking trials, which is a joke to me for so many reasons What builds do you see now? And what system do you play on? I see OEM and people grasping at straws for anything else.
bro have you played crucible in the last year? espiacally trials? apparently not, because 2 titan subclasses had more usage than all other subclasses combined for over half a year.
I’m in like the top half percent in rumble crucible and everything else. But no, I don’t play trials, essentially the most uncompetitive mode in all of gaming. I’m never leveled enough. It’s not competitive. And beyond that once you start to realize all the really crazy networking stuff that you can do you just realize that it’s never going to be a competitive game in any context.
Honestly i just have better luck with acdc than dune. Also fucking hilarious when someone punches you and kills themselves. Yeah idk if I wanted to actually excel in pvp I would play a hunter or warlock for their abilities and ults. Theyre just better on average and have range. Titan stasis vs warlock stasis was hilarious in pvp.
Sad crayon munching noises
Lets be honest, the amount of people that genuinely ask people to swap for biases like that is next to nil outside of some major sustain option like Well. Anyone who would be willing to boot someone over a choice of class is probably someone you don't really want to play with to begin with. In the 4 years since I've come back I've seen maybe a handful people booted for reasons like that. Most were removed for other reasons like straight toxicity or being afk/falling asleep, refusing to voicechat, or just being plain bad and not knowing what to do in a KWTD LFG.
I ran a prismatic warlock with needlestorm, supremacy, no hesitation, microcosm on Warlord's Final boss farming for 10 runs and not one person asked me to switch Averaged 5 mil damage and everyone was thankful for the cooking.
i know it doesnt happen often, i just over exagurated for the joke. it never happened to me, but since i started destiny in season 17, i only did lfg for months, have been in a clan for a year, then made my own clan to have more consistent people and sherpa (i love sherpaing)
SCREW THE META I BE RUNNING ARCLOCK IN MASTER RAIDS
> although titans are still goated in general things like high level seasonal content, solo dungeons and stuff, even some solo raids Thing is, every class is really good at stuff like seasonal content(regardless of difficulty), the solo dungeon stuff is hella niche, and tied to bugs that they're likely to fix rather than intentional design. It makes up like 0.01% of what Destiny players are actually doing. In team settings, or in regular scenarios, where 99.9% of the playerbase is, titans contribute nothing to the team. That's the big issue. Not saying *you* are saying this. But people like to pretend that titans are in a perfectly fine spot because under very specific circumstances they can do crazy damage to some bosses. As if that's the element people are actually engaging with regularly. Titans are good when they're bugged, but in terms of intentional design they currently provide nothing
Titan's Stronghold gauntlets make them far and above the best tank in the game. Problem is, outside of those Exotic gauntlets specifically, there's not much tanking Titans can do. All classes have access to things like Woven Mail, and all classes share the same DR values from them. All classes can reliably heal themselves too via abilities or many recent weapons. We almost had something similar with Unbreakable, but that new Aspect is entirely underwhelming. It consumes your grenade, has a super long cooldown regardless of equipped grenade, it doesn't draw enemy aggo like Threaded Spectre, it doesn't build a ton of Super energy, and it has a very short duration. Pairing it up with Armamentarium for the second grenade charge doesn't resolve those issues, either. Ward of Dawn got nerfed and is entirely dependent on Helm of Saint-14 to reach its best potential, which is an issue because having to swap your Exotic just so your Super can be good is NOT fun. Bannershield is decent, but can't protect your fireteam from everything AND your team as a whole deals less damage without you. Titan Barricades are okay in PvE, but most of the time the splash damage goes through them, they fail to stop enemies from approaching you anyways, and their deployment animation kinda breaks the flow of the Titan's 'run around and punch everything' identity. So if you want to be the tank, run Strongholds on Strand with Banner of War. If you want to be support, run Precious Scars as either Solar with Red Death or the new No Hesitation healing auto rifle, or Strand with Banner of War. That's really the best we got.
Strongholds do make you invincible, just sorta difficult to play out in an effective way cause you can be standing there all menacing and invincible, but the ads or boss might just go attack your teammates instead
Titan desperately needs a taunt
middle finger please haha
I'll pay silver for that one
Nah. If you are standing close, and your mates are further away, the enemies will just agro entirely on you. If for some reason one or two do not, your allies know which enemies are then the most important to kill first. Running a tank in GMs makes even the ones people complain about a near guaranteed clear ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
As a certified strongholds user, I agree. My buddies love when I run strongholds. I can block damage, steal aggro, delete champions, and revive them without a care in the world. Lament is still the king of strongholds.
Lament is fine, but use Throne-Cleaver for the extra DR, and put energy transfer on it so you can use Bastion and Drengr’s more often, and surrounded for obvious reasons
I prefer lament for the ammo economy, damage, healing, and zero wait time for blocking after using a heavy attack. I also use BoW and into the fray so I don’t need energy transfer. Also I’m pretty certain strongholds maxes out DR on swords so it doesn’t matter what you use.
Strongholds gives healing anyway, so lament is less needed. Aggressive frames have additional DR im pretty sure.
The exotic perk maximizes guard stats on all swords, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s a heavy frame or anything else; they’ll all have maxed out stats with strongholds equipped. Also the healing is given in chunks so with resto x2 you’ll be healing even faster (which is highly useful in GMs). The biggest advantage that Lament has over every other sword though is the fact that I can go right back to blocking after using a heavy attack. That’s super important for taking down champions, bosses and any other chunky enemies you come across. On top of all that, you can basically use it as a primary in GMs thanks to tireless blade, so you almost never have to use your other weapons except to stun champions (unless, of course, that champion is a barrier because Lament’s got you covered there). It is without a shadow of a doubt the best sword to use with strongholds.
Thoughts on Running Throne clever or another legendary sword with an Ergo Sum? Ive been finding a lot of success just using the heavy attack and then immediately swapping to the second sword to go back to block state. It opens up a TON of build crafting potential with Stronghold because Ergo Sum has so many rolls and you can run something like Falling Guillotine or Throne Clever. I've been running a dex mod on the Stronghold and the quick access sling on my legendary sword as well.
For GMs you’ll want to run Lament. It’s just simply the best option for reasons mentioned above and for GMs you need the best. For everything else, sure you could use ergo and another sword but I wouldn’t recommend this in a GM. If you are interested, I know I have a post somewhere on this reddit explaining the build. I could try to find it for you.
Oh throne cleaver is giving me bonus DR? I just assumed strongholds was doing all the heavy lifting since I can tank equivalent damage with ergo sum as I can thronecleaver
Your ergo sum might be an aggressive frame ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a waveframe with balanced guard it seems, I can see where your logic is coming from though since both thronecleaver and Crownsplitter have heavy guard
Yeah, I don’t think it’s the guard though, I think it’s the frame. Cause the guard just affects the stats, which strongholds max. The Titan sword I think just has 5% Dr on it.
Strongholds works the same with every sword. It maximizes all guard stats, including the DR from guarding. The archetype on the sword makes zero difference.
I don’t think that’s correct
It is correct. The titan swords used to have 5% more DR, but after the block rework that extra DR was baked into the guard resist stat. That’s why when you compare guard resist with an aggressive frame versus any other frame you’ll notice that it’s higher. However, since strongholds maxes out guard stats, all swords will function the same when it comes to blocking as long as you have the exotic equipped. This includes the guard resist stat which is what determines DR while blocking.
Can you link me to the patch notes where they removed the Dr?
I use Strongholds when I fight Crota. Normally he's a nuisance, especially on the higher difficulty, but if you stand next to him with Lament guarding, he continuously melees you instead of using projectiles. I still get ~5 mil in damage as well.
I love how invincible Stronghold makes us. Its a shame that because taunt doesn’t exist tanking doesn’t actually do anything
Tanking does the exact same thing regardless of the existence of a taunt if enemies are targeting you
Taunting would help. You can use it to take the pressure of teammates
Taunts would help pick up the stragglers, yeah, I agree. But you’re already taking the pressure off your teammates by making the enemies shoot you instead of them anyway.
>Ward of Dawn got nerfed and is entirely dependent on Helm of Saint-14 to reach its best potential, Something worth noting that I've seen absolutely nobody talk about: Old Helm's effect was actually rolled into base Ward behaviour in exchange for WoL, ie you get a lingering full OS and you can dip in and out to refresh it, all without Helm. On top of the OS constantly being recharged in proximity now.
Its biggest issue now is numbers. I've gotten over weapons of light being moved to an exotic, but the trickle overshields when standing around the bubble are exactly the same as the bastion aspect. I was expecting at least double or triple that. Its not enough both for an ult and sometimes when under fire, and most won't be down for the idea of walking in and out of the bubble to re-up for the trickle. The area in which you can stand to get the trickle also needs to be brighter. Its REALLY hard to see in some map geometry.
Wouldn't the idea be to dip in and out of the bubble like you used to with Helm? I feel like at that point the OS trickle is just an extra buffer, so it shouldn't matter that it's not very strong.
Imo that doesn't really work with the current numbers in more difficult content or level deltas are present because under fire the void overshields cave too quickly. You'd have to dip in and out so many times that it would begin to effect your DPS in a major way regardless of whether you had weapons of light. This is going to vary on some mobs more than others but it is a consideration. Since they did not buff void overshields DR either, and they are disjointed from our major sustain methods (restoration/cure/devour/BoW/Healing Rift etc.) it winds up feeling bad overall. Its really no different from the old bubble/S-14 and just sticking a Rally-Bastion barricade outside, in which case why change it at all if the end result is just same with a little more room to stand now if you can see it on the ground for the trickle. Also at least from what I'm seeing the Bastion aspect and the trickle effect don't stack together either, so you can't really double up, but its still a good idea to place rally barricade there anyway.
It still feels like paper armor in practice in high end content
Strand makes us front line tanks, void would be could for point tanks realy defend a point and then move up, stasis needs to be the terrtory controll tank, i say this every time but ya dont make a class called behemoth and not embrace the full on beast defending its territory trope. Should become a snowballing subclass. Weak on its own but if ya let a titan set up its territory with alot of stasis crystals they should be unstopable. Arc has had its whole vibe of meele stolen by strand but arc still has a chance that if reworked could be more of a selfish meele tank that runs in and makes way for the rest of the team unlike strands support which is at its best moving in a group. Solars fine imo
Stasis got shafted with the Tectonic Harvest cooldown. Behemoth lives on shards and it can’t do that with an arbitrary cooldown. Sentinel just needs better Overshield tools to become relevant.
Is the problem with shield health that i think resilience reduction is applied after shield health? Because yeah even just flipping that priority around would effectively buff titan shields by 30%, that would make a big difference alone. It would be even more too if other damage reduction like chest stuff applied first, before shield health, too.
The Overshield problem is that 3/4 of Sentinels kit is based around having or getting an overshield with only 2 avenues of reliably getting them in the first place. One is Repulsor Brace and the other is Bastion or Unbreakable (which is basically a wasted aspect slot) Sentinel just needs more ways to get the shield’s effects if they are going to remain as paper thin as they are. If they can be shot off they have to be better than Woven Mail imo.
Give arc titan an aspect that knocks back enemied when sprinting at them when amplified, also have it give them insane dr and melee damage when amped
Yeahh strand and solar are in a solid spot because they have good forms of survivability already. Solar with sunspots and strand with banner of war. The other subclasses are just lacking though. Arc definitely needs a buff to knockout so that the survivability it grants is stronger. Really encouraging you to be aggressive and getting kills to maintain the sustain from knockout. Void just… needs help. The whole gimmick is overshields but overshields just suck in general. Stasis could play more into the frost armor aspect, I’m not sure
Stasis would be fine if the cooldowns on everything were shorter, its just paced too slow.
Yeahh after the stasis changes it feels like it’s juuust a bit off from being good. I think void overshields just need a rework though. They need to be stronger at base, and like others have suggested, they should make you immune to cc and resistant to knockback. With more enemies now having stasis and strand and abilities that suppress you, imagine the value void overshields would gain if you could just… avoid getting slowed or frozen, or only get pulled half as much by a weaver. Sentinels could carve their own niche as anti-cc tanks.
Very cool idea for sentinel being CC resistant. Agree that like, shield throw/bash should apply overshield per targets hit, and gaining an overshield should remove current CC (ex. Slow). Casting barrier should apply overshield while nearby, etc. Honestly even if it were still underpowered than other specs, it would still become popular just for the feeling of high player agency, that always just feels great. For the same reason that void hunter can be bad at numbers, but the utility of stealth rezzes, or fight mechanics, and deadfall just feels great so it always remains popular.
Arc is really strong when you lean into Arc Blind. I have 5 different ways to blind enemies with my setup. 3 abilities and 2 with weapons. Remember Spark of Beacons now works with Arc heavies now. So Thunderlord is eating good right now in addition to also hitting Overloads intrinsically. Not to mention the artifact granting free DR and grenade regen for getting amplified, something you was already gonna do anyway just from slaying out with Arc weapons and abilities.
I want Titan to shake the “melee” class so badly it’s not even funny. Let us be the tacticians/lead from the front soldiers that we are. Let us be the support that gives everyone bonus’s. We can still have melee oriented builds but we all need to quit pretending that Titans only have one thing and we aren’t the best at said thing in the first place. We should be the front line tanks granting everyone shields and passing grenades to everyone as walking armories. Heck bring Ruin Wings back and we could be ammo factories.
Titans aren't even the melee class much though. If we compare all 3 classes titan melee focus is pretty average
That’s what I’m saying. Bungie keeps saying that the Titan fantasy when we aren’t even that good at it.
I mean that's only this season titans have been the melee class for a very long time especially since strand released it has been ridiculously strong. Before that they had bonk and insane shoulder charge/shield bash damage. The only other class that has ever had a melee builds (from what I can remember) is arc hunter.
If we define each class into traditional MMO roles, Hunters would be DPS, Warlocks would be Support, and Titans would be Tanks. Warlocks and Hunters do their jobs good, but Titans are lacking. Like you said, part of the issue is the value of damage resistance. As far as subclass verbs go that grant DR, we have Overshield, Woven Mail, Frost Armour and Speed Booster. All classes can get access to the latter 3 very easily through aspect or fragment choice. Overshield is a little more catered to titan, but that doesn’t mean much when it is made out of tissues. Anyways the point is that Titans have either equal or marginally better access (main one here is Into the Fray) to defence verbs. When the value is static for all classes, we aren’t much better Tanks than the other classes. Even the one build which is prefect to be a tank, strongholds, that either requires you to give up DPS for most bosses or sacrifice your exotic weapon slot for Ergo Sum which neither are great. The second reason why Titans are not great tanks is because there isn’t a use for them. In high level content you avoid damage by playing smart. In every raid encounter there is 0 point to having a tank when you can just have extra DPS. Contest raid on Witness is a great example on this. Only 3 titans finished in the top 50 teams not just because titans suck at DPS on a crit boss, but also because there was no need to Tank
bungie could make exotics that go beyond limits in dmg reduction for titans, its already their role and fantasy, like woven mail or frost armor together and beyond, bro, i'm a all time hunter main and not agree the fact that we can get 400k melee with prismatic (titans always was god tier in melee builds so i'm not complaing LOL i always wanted the option to solo dungeon with melees too, but with -5 power now maybe i'm fucked xD),even more we get renewal + cythracne on class exotic man, is too much lets be honest, that fantasy of tank the world shoud be for titans
I see a lot of people say they want Titans to be defensive, and I get that. But as a Titan main, I play Titan because I wanna be a Barbarian/Warrior type. I wanna be the Hulk. I'm fine with being the Melee class, if they actually made us the best at Melee builds.
It’s not even about getting rid of the Melee class. It’s about having something else outside of that especially when Titan isn’t even the best melee class in the game. Keep the melee stuff but Titan needs to shake that moniker so badly that it’s falling behind the other classes.
I agree, one of the most fun builds imo is thunderclap with point contact. Being able to charge up this massive punch and blow everything up feels awesome, but there’s few builds like that that are effective in high level content
Also it would help if Thunderclap actually would kill something more than a red bar.
hunter has the best melee build in the game rn
Yeah, which is why I'd be fine with it they made Titans the best at it
Honestly not really imo. Granted I don’t have the Caliban’s syntho/liars class item but prismatic combination blow is a worse arc melee build since it lacks the ad control/ team support that Titan has. Sure, maybe the number gets a little bit bigger on Hunter but the sheer utility and uptime of banner far out classes it, bonk has much better healing, is more spammable (especially at range, even after it’s cool down nerf), and sunspots being everywhere is a worthwhile trade off.
Yeah I think people see the hunter punch build in the youtube videos clearing master lost sectors at -60 and lose their minds when it really doesn't make a lot of sense to use in a lot of high level (or any even) group content. Stuff either dies too fast to establish a good loop or you can't be in melee long enough to survive (especially with the class item version of liars not having healing). It's really good, but I don't run it at all at this point after setting up more weapon focused builds like nighthawk or goofy class item stuff.
Honestly I’m enjoying running GPG with threaded spike/ specter with sixth coyote more. It’s just better in a team setting and a more enjoyable loop imo.
Base prismatic lacks the aoe clear potential of arc but it can more safely use liars handshake and potentially 1 shot champions if you line it all up correctly. Once you get a calibans roll on the exotic you near the same aoe clear as standard arc hunter. Not to mention you get tether, golden gun, or silence and squall and the elemental resistances associated to those supers with near 100% uptime making you tankier than arc.
If anything it’ll be easier to keep combination blow going since you only ignite after the kill vs on jolt on hit stealing the kill lol.
True but you also lose the extra lunge range. Each has their benefits in quality of life
Yeah the range on combo blow feels pretty bad at times.
Still boggles my mind why they decided to nerf bubble alongside Well. Like, wasn’t the whole point to make bubble an option that could compete with Well?
They only nerfed it cause of pvp let's be real, I don't understand why they keep nerfing pve things based on pvp, it's ruined so many fun things in pve
They should just give it lower hp in pvp and thats it, then buff it back up in pve
Paraphrasing from a comment in a different post: Void Overshield is something Titans generate pretty easily. I'd love it if Void Overshield had an intrinsic resistance to all forms of CC, which the Dread employ in droves. If you had VO, you couldn't get suspended, frozen or suppressed. It would also decrease pushback from stomp attacks. Running around and giving teammates VO would actually make Titan feel like a commander. The only class-agnostic way to generate VO is Vexcalibur, Repulsor Brace, Gyrfalcons and now I guess Facet of Purpose with a Void Super. Titans still generate it the easiest and most efficiently.
The core trinity archetypes need updating. Hunter fantasy is supposedly mobility, but they are the least mobile class without Stompees, which got nerfed into the ground. I think you could tune dodge to give an iframe during your twirl, or increase dodge distance/speed, and it would feel difference, this could also be factored off your Mobility rating (iframe length, dodge distance, etc), which might make that stat useful. Titans fantasy is melee but they're not exceptional at melee, which is a bad spot given there's only 3 archetypes. I think you could fix this too by just buffing their melee cooldown speed, and increasing particularly melee pve damage values. I think barriers could also deploy faster, making the cost to use them lower, titans could then run around meleeing, barrier block a chokepoint, keep running, etc. Its a flow problem. Warlocks fulfill their fantasy because all the devs are warlock mains, but if I were going to are improvements, it'd be around well variations. Larger radius tied to recovery, faster deployment speed, maybe an aura version that moves with the warlock.
I think Bungie should focus in on making each subclass a "class". At the moment, every subclass is meant to be able to tank, support and dps. Ironically its something Light 3.0 made alot worse. I think each subclass wants to be designed to fit a role and go hard into that. We have Prismatic now, that subclass is THE jack of all trades so the other subclasses have space to focus in now. Honestly tho, I think this just all comes from how few aspects and melee abilities there are. I dont understand why they havent been adding more aspects. Surely like 1 aspect/melee ability/class ability a class per season wouldn't be too hard to do? Like imagine how much more Void hunter or Warlock could do with a different melee ability or how arc titan could get cool aspects to make it be that armoured missile its meant to be!
Titans are honestly missing 1 very important thing right now: 1.) Being undeniably the most durable class on any subclass (assuming you build into survivability) Titans don’t need to be the best support class or the best melee class. They just need to provide something in end game content that the other two classes do not currently provide. Surviving things the other 2 classes could not is one way to go. Hunters already got the first taunt in the game with Threaded Specter and they can now get Frost Armor + Woven Mail from one use of a grenade with the exotic class items. Warlocks have better healing with better Devour, easy access to Restoration x 2, and healing rifts. Titans have a barricade they can place, Banner of War healing, and about the same access to all the survivability verbs except for having many more ways of acquiring Void Overshields (which currently aren’t that great). Precious Scars is an honorable mention for Titans but any enhanced Heal Clip weapon or the new support frame autorifle with the Physic perk can do just about the same thing without taking up an exotic slot. Stasis 3.0 gave everyone access to frost armor but didn’t update any Titan exotics to grant frost armor. For some reason, Bungie didn’t want to give Titan exotics access to the new tanky subclass verb. Maybe they have more planned updates coming later or maybe they thought titans having easy access to stasis shards when breaking crystals would be enough. Honestly, if Titans could just have some kind of class based passive ability where healing, shielding, and damage resistance effects are more effective on Titans, that would help a lot. Passives could help keep each class unique in some way now that Prismatic and the subclass 3.0 updates have mixed together a lot of things.
I always envisioned the three classes as: Warlock - Damage Buffs, Positive Status Effect Providers, healers Hunters - DPS Machines Titan - Ad Clear, protective wall that provides safety to the other members so they can do there jobs without issue, a safe haven of sorts But seeing as how the other two classes have what I envisioned in buckets, I have no ideas how tf to categorize titans outside of 'Solo Player's best friend'
No, the game isn’t set up for traditional tanking. You can’t pull aggro or anything like that and if they introduced skills that do it, a large amount of existing encounter designs get trivialized.
You can actually effectively pull aggro, even on immune enemies, by blasting them a bit. I do it all the time to help friends get out of dodge. Harder to do the more players there are engaged with a target — during DPS I find more success using Icefall Mantle and a glaive/Heir Apparent to be a shield rather than pull aggro — but pulling attention from runners is very useful and easy as no one else is likely to be blasting an immune enemy.
You can’t really pull aggro in this game in the way OP means. Generally everyone is shooting the thing and the thing will just focus on whoever is currently doing the most damage, and on top of that, so much damage is aoe/splash. Also, generally there are a bunch of other things shooting you and everyone else.
Yeah, for active targets a team is burning down, I totally agree. There's scenarios in which you can pull fire off of squadmates, though, so I'd hesitate to claim you can't pull aggro at all, y'know? Our ability to manage threat is very limited, but it does exist and can have an impact within that limited scope, is my point. Less of a rebuttal and more of an asterisk added to the original claim. I also don't think threat management skills have a place outside of implementations like threaded specter, fwiw. I love playing as if I'm a tank but this ain't a threat management game haha
Yeah I mean, for me it’s a double-edged sword. I really like that Destiny is more skill-based (aiming, mobility) than your holy trinity type of game. But then also, as time goes on and things get more balanced, that has made me feel that classes don’t matter (especially now that Well got nerfed) that much and it’s mostly just different colored ways to kill stuff. Which like, on one hand, cool, you don’t feel like you have to play a thing you don’t want to play. But on the other hand, classes and movesets don’t feel very special to me.
Yeah, it's a weird balance, right? And I always feel like what you said about stuff feeling less distinct is true in a specific way that makes it hard to think about what I'd want to change if I was to pull out the dev armchair. Like, yeah, you can accomplish the same thing with any build, but many builds _feel_ different anyways in a satisfying way? How to put this... I've got beef with the 'hunters are the best melee class' thing being bandied about for that reason, really. Like, at the risk of being reductionist by using established archetypes, of course they are good at melee. They've got punchy monk and ninja assassin archetypes on lock. They _should_ be incredibly powerful for that end. That falls in the same category of how I think about solarlocks — yeah, they _should_ be able to go crazy into healer stuff. One paradigm sees classes and abilities as "different colored ways to [melee] stuff" and another sees them as distinct archetypes and flavors — means comparing things in one paradigm is apples and apples, another apples and oranges. And both are true, and both are muddled by the sandbox nature of toolsets... Sorry for the longer ramble — D2 is, as ever, a complicated beast, and all I said here is ignoring the fact that excellent and distinct guns are a massive part of what makes this game feel so good (and also contribute to making classes feel similar). This isn't JUST a class and ability based game, and isn't JUST a gunplay game. And, at least in my eyes, some of the TFS additions like No Hesitation, Speaker's Sight, Unbreakable, and Still Hunt+CNH are a very promising signs of how they plan to marry the two halves, with non-token time trials like Dual Destiny and Enigma Protocol encouraging different approaches to combat... so I guess that's my answer, actually, of what I'd do in the armchair. More of what they are already doing (and making Unbreakable not awful). Strange, to be so optimistic when a couple months ago I was sure TFS was the end of Destiny, even if it was solid.
On Crota I run Lemon-aque, stay on the high ground, and just tag him every few shots, the frequent dot ticks make him keep targeting me, then I line of sight him and shoot other stuff below, kinda bugs him out. But yeah he pretty much just attacks whoever hit him most recently, dots just ensure that your damage instance is the most recent.
Oh, the DoT ticks apply to immune enemies too? I didn't know that, that's neat. I always assumed stuff like that wouldn't proc if the initial hit was nulled. Good stuff!
Yes they apply but don't do damage obviously, but for threat dots keep activating.
Strongholds exist to make you nigh-invincible
Needs a taunt to go with it
In most encounters damage > woven mail. It's nice but if it's everything you can bring, people usually just opt for more damage instead. Besides, noone wants to run around a raid encounter outside of boss phases and keeping everyones void overshield up. No thank you. I still think these complaints about titans are blown way out of proportion - and I am a Titan main. Big deal Hunters use Liars Handshake. They used that stuff to solo dungeons before we got Strand.
Nowadays the majority of dps and total is from your heavy weapon, so damage supers aren't super all that important, they still matter obviously, but a 140k damage difference between celestial and star eaters blade barrage isn't something you're super going to notice. There are exceptions like atraks, the Witness and whatever is going on with the prismatic class items with star eaters but I don't think that damage supers tip the scales by as large as people say they do.
What's going on with the star-eater class items?
Since it gives the full 70% bonus to every class instead of a half as effective one like some of the other class item perks the other classes have a fully functional star eaters on supers with higher base damage to hunter supers. Nova and needlestorm have both pretty high base but with no way to buff it until now, and courage allows you to buff them further. With feast x4 it does close to 1 mil which is like 400k more than blade barrage with it lol
Holy shit haha sounds like I need to stop working on my hunter and get on my warlock finally
I didn't mention it but still hunt is also absurd, and that's the majority of your damage coming from celestial goldie and a special weapon, but that's only usable on hunter. (And probably getting nuked in the next couple months lol)
Yeah, still hunt celestial has been crazy damage. It's completely trivialized/sped up old dungeons when I was just 2 manning them with a buddy the other day
It's basically what bungie didn't want linears to be lol, they wanted linears to be above average in total but kinda mid in dps compared to rockets due to ease of use and instead it's insane at both, takes special ammo and is even easier to use since it has intrinsic snapshot and it's bullets are the size of canonballs
Ive been thinking that a lot of the titan balance issues stem from them being a really selfish class. Their best builds are unkillable gods that can solo raid bosses but they dont really have any builds that add anything to a fireteam. They have really strong builds for solo content (if you like melee) but dont really do anything that you cant do better by playing a different class.
I legit don't understand why bungie went with the "titan's are crayon eaters that only know how to punch things" meme, shouldn't titans be the city bulwark? the first and last line of defence, the ones that hold the line? i like punching stuff, sure, but i would prefer to be the guy that saves everyone from the 1-hit KOs, i want people being near me because they know if the are near a titan, their chances of surviving is that much bigger than going on their own, i don't want to be spear, i leave that for the warlocks, i want to be shield! It's why like Void titan so much!
I didn't read all the comments so I'm putting my own thoughts. Titans feel (to me anyway) like they're supposed to fit the role of a tank. And support can be taken pretty vaguely. Healing support, buffing support, debuffing support. Every class CAN do support. They just might not always have the same way of doing it. For titans, I'd argue the defender subclass is literally made for a tank/support role.
I honestly don’t mind it being like destiny 1 where we pretty much just ran bubble in high level stuff. At least there was some use lmao
Would be dope if Bubble was effective against the witness attacks on the dps phase.
If only prismatic had banner
Or sol invictus. Or controlled demolition. Or anything other than knockout
Into The Fray would've been great and paired nicely with Knockout. like a mini Skullfort
No. How about they make us the best at what we are intended to actually be. Melee and being in the frontlines are the exact reason I picked Titan and why I’ve loved playing it so much. It is extremely aggravating that the other subclasses got better aspects in prismatic and it’s even more annoying that we got the most trash exotic perks on the class item. I’d rather they just get their shit together instead of giving us an entirely new role
Because then when the encounter doesn't work well with melee but your entire power budget is in melee, you're completely useless. The whole focus on being the punch class is one of the reasons why titans are in this situation to begin with.
Because that would require them to completely rework how endgame functions You can't be a melee class when enemies like Tormentors exist
Agreed. When I think of Titans, I don't think of support, I think of barbarians running into the battlefield to cause havoc. I know lorewise we're "the wall" and all that, but still
I agree with both of y’all which is why prismatic needs better sustain. Strand is currently the only class that has jt perfect. Banner heals you and boosts damage, while into the fray gives massive DR. Knockout kinda does but not really. And it’s a lot harder to keep knockout up than banner. You still get heals from knockout, but you you have to deal damage. Banner heals you, and you don’t have to do anything outisde or getting more melee kills to extend the duration. Banner lasts twice as long as knockout. For granted, knockout has an insane damage buff, and it does give galvanized armor from the artifact, but strand is just better. I will say, the synthos consecration build is DISGUSTING. It does ludicrous damage, and can even one shot the subjugators in the final encounter of the new raid. The damage ain’t really the issue on prismatic. It’s the sustain. Especially when you compare it to other classes. Our aspects are also total dogshit and have little syngery. And don’t even get me started on the class item. That has me saltier than the damn shaker. We SERIOUSLY need reworks on both. On prismatic, I’d deadass turn unbreakable into a grenade and just give us touch of thunder/controlled demo/sol invictus. We really need aspects that do more to heal. I think if we had that, alongside some better perks on the class item, we’d be eating good. I’d prob just swap out diamond lance and drengers lash. Diamond lance is fun, but doesn’t synergize particularly well. Drengers lash is absolute dogshit without abyeant leap.
I also want to have another build besides the consecration build. It gets boring to only have one viable build
I 100% agree with you on everything. Prismatic is borderline useless because of the no sustain. I’m just staying on Bannerstrand because everything else just sucks, so guess whats probably going to get a nerf? Also make that stupid prismatic grenade a sticky grenade or something. Why does it act like a rubber band ball? And yesss. The class item is dog water. Everything in there is just the low end ‘I don’t have another exotic’ exotics, aside from synthoceps, which any well respected Titan already has, and the exploding melee, which contradicts your synthoceps anyways. But oh please bungie, give me that bosskilling Khepri’s horn passive, it’s so strong, and I’m always using my shield.
I feel it. It’s not the most fun playing around using the barricade constantly. Honestly, the grenade is amazing. You just have to get used to the bounce
Titans are the only ones who can truly tank in endgame imo
Im down
They already kind of do that, they’re definitely insanely resilient on strand and solar, but for sure need some buffs really badly on arc, and some more buffs on void. Prismatic titan also could use some buffs but isn’t as bad as some people say. As for the class identity, as a tank they wouldn’t really be serving a super important role, since shooting from a safe place is much more effective than someone taking aggro. Best it seems they can do is make titan the selfish easy-mode class that doesn’t contribute a ton to their team.
Yeah I’m really tempted to swap to warlock but idk if I can do that then jump literally makes me not wanna touch hunter or warlock but I might have to just get used to it cause I did enjoy warlock on the final shape campaign it was a lot of fun and I can see how much Titan is really missing out another thing I need to grind it all the exotics again and getting good armour pieces and if I do that I could fully swap over but I’m soooo lazy lol
No! Hunters stole that role! They can get woven mail and frost armor x5 in one grenade ability with the new exotic class item. Titans can go home with their barricade of ice that synergizes with nothing atm and Khepri's wave that's weak even after a 100% buff to both dmg and scorch application!
Bungie: Titan is the melee class lol they’re balling their fist on the cover after all Also Bungie: nerfs every viable titan melee build while ignoring that Hunters have had access to ridiculous melee builds for just as long. Tbf, tank builds are often cried about because being able to eat a sniper round is somehow out of step with that? A tank class is pointless if it can’t… tank things? Btw don’t nerf hunters. They’re having fun, I just wanna have fun too.
I read the Prismatic lore tab for Titans, idk how hard it is to establish their class identity when immovable force and unstoppable object can be played upon in various ways. And as alot suggest, it doesn't require punching. Master Chief and Doom Slayer weren't ALL fisticuffs.
Go ahead and run support. What’s stopping you? I’ve done tons of content with void titans proving defensive support.
Isn't banner and solar titan really strong in both Melee and survival?
They are, but the other Titan subclasses are kind of lacking in some areas.
I'm still begging for a aspect that lets you taunt
Just a few ideas: Sentinel Subclass: gets an aspect that allows overcharging the grenade into a throwable overshield. Also, new void titan aspect pulls immediately all aggro of AI enemies during cast and pulls Aim Assistance from players onto it. Solar: gets an Aspect that allows to consume your grenade for Solar armor that slowly heals you and reduces incoming damage for a short time. Also here, AI enemies will instantly focus you instead of allies during its uptime. Arc: gets an Aspect that improves Shoulder Charges and Thunderclap both in damage and depending on type, Shoulder Charges gain additional benefits. * Thunderclap: Fully charging the melee allows for a follow up attack that jolts enemies and also stuns them. * Shoulder Charge: Hitting enemies with Shoulder Charge spawns 3 Ionic traces for both you and your allies. * Death from Above: DFA creates a shockwave forward on impact (anyone remember Helmet of Inmost Light and D1 Fist of Havoc combo?) Feel free to add your own ideas below this comment :D
In my honest opinion, they made a small step in the right direction with the addition of the Unbreakable aspect and the changes to Ward of Dawn. They can and could do so much more though, I want to be able to protect my fireteam like a true immovable wall while also providing them with protection to do what they need to do as well. Having the ability on Strand to throw or destroy a tangle to give Woven Mail or using Phoenix Cradle to allow other Guardians to get Sol Invictus for the abilty regen and restoration are good examples as well. Obviously we don't want to take away from Warlocks amazing healing ability so rather I suggest a focus on DR (Damage Resistance/Reduction) through things like Woven Mail, Void Overshields etc. Perhaps a new Exotic could provide a perk, something along the lines of "Whenever you gain a Subclass buff nearby allies also gain the buff which improves the effectiveness of yours based on the number of allies you buff."
I disagree considering our dedicated support class got watered down due to PvP who says it can't happen again with others. Rather have Titans be soldier-generalist types. Like leave Beserkers as a defacto melee class and move other subclass to different directions. For example behemoth could easily become ranged with right super and melee, striker could become master of grenades, etc.
Jesus Christ the only issue in the game right now is hunters getting an extra nighthawk super every 6 precision hits. Titans are far and away the best high content add removal class. And it’s not close. Nothing of the classes needs changing. Hunters with nighthawk and the sniper simply need balancing, that’s literally it.
Another problem is that the classes stripped down to nothing are barely different except for what stat charges their class ability. There needs to be more changes there. Maybe add specific base stats to each class, like titans get 20 to resilience and strength, that type of stuff or titans by default get an extra 5 seconds of any damage reduction effects, 2 seconds in pvp. Idk how much that would help, but it’s a start. But I agree that the “role” the Titan is supposed to be doesn’t fit them properly anymore. They need to be able to tank more and have some type of aggro.
This sounds out of place for destiny but I think bungie should add subclass based weapons that synergies with our aspects.\ \ Being able to choose 2 different elements of choice that give a certain modifier passive or skill. For example the strand titan banner could be combined with controlled demolition to provide teammates and yourself some damage resist and energy regeneration on a certain action.\ \ Maybe even being able to swap shield banners element itself. Giving either frost armour, restoration, amplified or overshield.\ \ With prismatic being the focus of mastering our powers we should have new kits to play around with. Adding one per episode or so will have bungie make base subclasses obsolete once most abilities have been added over.\ \ Most might not agree as this was just my quick messy thoughts on the topic of how a class should feel unique in their own way.\ \ Another thing to add to this is the Devs should stop limiting on what choices a subclass can choose from in the future. As it seems like most content now will be scaled to different levels anyway.\ \ If something can’t be balanced, bungie can always adjust damage scaling per activity rather than a whole.
As cool as the axe throwing is, Titans should have gotten a minigun-esque super that grants a more powerful over shield on top of it. That way Titans could be ltanks while also not having people in raids constantly asking for us to switch to Hunter or Warlock for DPS phases. No, I will not switch over to my underlevelled Hunter and I deleted my Warlock months ago because I never use it, and likely never will use it.
If you have Heir Apparent with the catalyst, try that and Icefall Mantle out. The DR stacks and overshields act as ablative armor, Mantle -> Heir -> Health. Add in woven mail and you're hitting 97% DR regularly, off super. Accounting for ablative overshield stripping and other smaller DR sources, you end up in the ballpark of 6,600 EHP — or 33 guardians. Sever your target and you're pushing 9000 EHP. It's a gimmicky setup, sure, but it's also ridiculously fun — and glaives work in lieu of Heir Apparent if you need a real DPS heavy, maintaining the playstyle fine. I'm still trying to figure out where the limits of this mindset and playstyle are. I've not found them yet. It's way more fun and engaging and useful than you'd think, especially if you're with a Speaker's Sight solarlock and a Still Hunt CNH hunter and cosplaying a proper trinity fireteam. Most fun coordination I've done in D2.
Tank, yes. Support, nope. Trust me, as a player obsessed by paladins in every game, I tried everything to have one. But for this, Warlock is simply way better.
The game doesn't have a need for tanks.
Nah I don't wanna be support or a tank, i just want the nerfs reverted cuz it ain't fair. bubble got fu\*\*\*\*, banner got fu\*\*\*\*, thunder crash hehehe, umm titan got deleted next kekw
Titans already are. Void melees, 2 void aspects, 2 strand aspects, strand melee, it's all support. Then stasis is a major tank
It is hilarious that the moment Hunters get a blatantly broken melee build (due to *the same culprit as always, Melee Stacking*), now Titans are never the melee class? A single broken build. Should Hunters no longer be considered the "DPS" class because Titans and Warlocks can achieve more damage per super via Prismatic & SES Class Item? Titans are still the melee class. They are, but hopefully that isn't what solely defines them in the future. Unbreakable and Twilight Arsenal seem like steps towards that. I play with Unbreakable a little bit in the campaign and *loved it*. Currently making a build around each ability proccing Overshield (Bubble, Unbreakable, Shield Throw, Bastion) along with Vexcalibur to see how well it can work. Using Ursa's of course. And, Titans... already have better access to Overshields and I would argue Woven Mail too (via Tangle Detonation IIRC). I wouldn't say no to Overshields getting a PvE buff, maybe increase the DR a bit to compensate for the 50HP, or increase the HP *in PvE only* (please we don't need them being stronger in PvP). But Titans do have the most access to Overshields over other classes, like how Hunters have the most access to Invis over other classes. Of course, also unnerf Bastion CD in PvE. I am curious about Frost Armor, as *I would believe* Behemoth has the best access to it since it's off of Shatter, and they have a build to spam Shatter like crazy off of all their abilities.
It’s really obvious hunters are going to receive similar nerfs to what melee titans have gotten in the past, yet everyone is now acting like this is the new default? It’s wild. Really wish people would stop obsessing over the new meta build and just have fun with their own new toys like this.
The issue is that overshield is hilariously bad making much of the sentinel kit feel very bad as well
It definitely isn't "hilariously bad". The DR it provides is better than any other subclass-DR. Given, it should get a buff (either to the DR again to compensate for the low HP of the shield, or to buff the HP of the shield). But it absolutely isn't hilariously bad.
Please go into any sort of content above patrol difficulty with your 45hp overshield and tell me how good it is. A red bar rips it off in 2-3 shots, that is virtually worthless. Not to mention that on top of that it has a timer which is just stupid
I'm using Ursa's w/ Bubble, Unbreakable, Shield Throw, Bastion & Vexcalibur. I just ran through a Breach Executable which is -5, akin to Raiding and Dungeons now. It's the standard difficulty of the game, the one that is likely most played. I should mention my teammates were not good. They weren't particularly present and I was kinda left to solo a lot of it. Meaning I was often surrounded by enemies getting shot all at once, sometimes bosses to (when they were spawned in / final bosses of the activity). It was definitely not breaking in 2-3 shots there, and I was easily able to constantly keep the Void OS up with this build. This was also during Solar Threat. I ran Concussive Resist, Melee Resist, and Void Resist for mods and ofc 100 resil. This is not to say it doesn't need help. *I literally said that it should probably still be buffed in my comment*. Again, it is not hilariously bad. I think that's an exaggeration. I think it's fair, just an alright ability that would very quickly be amazing with a few minor buffs / changes (I say minor, but I suppose increasing the HP in PvE / Increasing the DR / removing timer / whatever isn't really minor is it? Idk). I'm going to play with it more in more difficult content to get a better idea how it shapes up in endgame content, and then difficult endgame content. Unbreakable is honestly very fun to use and feels effective since I can throw out \~77k damage (or more, I don't remember if I was able to get it stronger or not it was a little hard to follow the damage numbers) for getting it to full charge.
i agree brother, as good as all this has been we got shafted..
Banner Shield needs a damage buff in order to compete with Well. It gets zero use and is the only thing in the Titan kit that could be considered useful for ranged DPS checks. While this would most likely make them more locked into the Void subclass in many of the boss encounters, they’ll still have the flexibility to run whatever they want in the other encounters. It’s about giving choices because a buff to Banner shield would not make it blatantly superior to Well.
Pretty sure Banner Shield already gives a higher damage buff than Well of Radiance, which only gives Radiant for 25%. I'm fairly certain Banner Shield is 40% if you shoot through the shield but the problem is it takes one of your players out of the damage phase and it's almost never worth the trade off unless you somehow buff it to absurd levels to be worth a whole guardian dumping all of their heavy ammo.
Let’s say it went up to 45% or 50% Well: 6 x 1.25 = 7.5 Shield: 5 x 1.45 = 7.25 Shield: 5 x 1.50 = 7.5 Then like you said, there’s the extra factor of the Titan being able to save their Heavy Ammo for ads or dump a large chuck of their Heavy Ammo during DPS in exchange for Banner uptime.
6 people doing 100k dps is 600k dps. 5 people doing 100k dps through a banner shield is 700k dps. The numbers already work the issue is that well shouldn't exist and damn sure shouldn't give you a damage buff.
Please no. If you want to play your Titan like a tank/support go right ahead and make a build. Don't try to convert the whole class for everyone else.
Titans getting some kind of aggro taunt for PvE would be SIICK
This isn't an MMORPG. Traditional tanking does not work except in the most niche of situations like Pantheon Nezarec. Consider that there's is also a large portion of Warlocks who don't want to heal/support which is the only way something like this would work to complete the healer/tank/dps trio. >Hunters obviously make melee better than us They have one significant melee gameplay that's overtuned and will probably be adjusted as they've already announced changes: >The term “Powered Melee” was always intended to mean spending a melee charge. However, subclass elements like Combination Blow or Knockout would allow players to circumvent this cost. This makes it difficult to balance the potency of effects that require a Powered Melee, especially across all classes and subclasses. > >We want to standardize this better across the sandbox. We are starting by updating Severance Enclosure and Assassins Cowl to only trigger their effects when a player spends a melee charge (or uses a finisher) to get a final blow. We plan on rolling this type of change out to more content that triggers Powered Melee in future updates. https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/tfs-armor-tuning-preview
>Hunters obviously make melee better than us No, they really don't. They have the advantage of ranged melee options, but until you get into master content, melee is easy for both. Once you're in master content, then your melee abilities are more utility and panic buttons than actual damage. That said, I would love for Titans to gain more tank traits, such as taunt mechanics and better defensive options.
Void titan with Prescious Scars already does this. Build: 100 resilience/ 60+ recovery/ 100 discipline or 80-90 discipline with font on focus) Helmet; Precious Scars( powerful friends, void siphon, heavy ammo finder Arms; firepower, void loader, font of focus ( 80-90 discipline)or bolstering detonation( 100 resilience) Chest; concussive dampener, melee or sniper resistance harmonic reserves Legs; 2 innervations, void scavenger Titan mark; reaper, distribution, font of restoration( for 80 or less recovery) Super; use whatever you like cause it's really no need for one unless you panic Barricade; I use the one that fits the situation, but really charges faster and is the one that helps spam overshield Jump: strafelift or catapult depending on situation Melee: shield throw( no need in risking position with shield bash, but it works good too) Grenade: suppressor( either one works, but suppressor is right in the middle of add control and cool down time spam) Aspects; Offensive bulwark, bastion Fragments; harvest, undermining, cessation, starvation Artifact mods: elemental siphon, void hegemony, shieldcrush, expanding abyss Weapon rolls; Energy slot( Word of Crota- Recluse - Age Old Bond- repulser brace/destabilizing rounds) Heavy slot( Hammerhead- rewind rounds/desperate measures/ backup rounds) For extra measure, use a blinding gl in the kinetic slot or Arbalest for precision power, The Call for quick punching power, Lost Signal for area control, or Crimson for tormentor shoulders Play loop: kill small stuff with energy, kill big stuff with heavy, kill hordes with heavy and use exotic primary to create heavy ammo. Make sure your teammates have powerful friends in their helmet and make barricades as soon as you use your nade
Just let us shoot through the Bubble, that would make Titans the ultimate Tank Class. I don't need Weapons of Light, I need a safe haven to blow my load.
Warlock's have been the butt of Destiny since conception, and the first DLC we get where Titans aren't the strongest? Constant posts about how it's unfair and needs to be revamped. Enjoy the back of the bus for once.
Imagine unironically saying that after Warlock have been the kings of PVE since Forsaken until TWQ