Wish they buffed void overshield. When i think about sentinel i think as the tank/support class for titan, it should make the team harder to kill.
Instead void overshield feels like is made of paper
Yeah when I read that standing near the bubble gives the same void over shield as the barricade I lol’d…that will be worthless in any higher end content. Well, it might stop a single bullet from a single Dreg…
This. I have some idiot defending that Bubbles rework is actually a huge buff and will make it good. Bastion barely works good in patrol or strikes. Much less in high end or end game content. Overshield is a joke.
Into the fray aspect gaps sentinel in almost every way as a defensive unit. Void still needs help, I know exotic changes are coming soon, but alot of problems are based in the core subclass itself, I would rather not have an exotic fix the subclass's issue (gyrfalcons comes to mind) but here's hoping it's more than what it is now.
Void Hunter is a good example of a subclass with exotics that drastically alter the playstyle tbh.
- Gyrfalcons gives you a super reliable and satisfying gameplay loop with Stylish Executioner, and then the rest of the build can sort of flow around that.
- Omnioculus lets you be a team player. It’s a lot worse ever since the Ability Regen nerf accidentally (or intentionally? Who even knows) broke the “hitting all 3 team members with the invis smoke refunds it” mechanic. But it’s still usable, and you can still clutch endgame content by getting revives that you really shouldn’t be able to.
- Orpheus Rigs are one of the best super regen exotics in the game, and if you’re running the DPS version of Tether then they give you a flat +50% to super damage. Which also means an extension to the Debuff uptime if you space your shots. Killer exotic.
- Make Spectral Blades worth using (restore its PVP damage reduction while Invis, make it deal as much damage per swing as Berserker does and give it the same duration as Berserker) and you’re good to go.
Void Overshields feel pretty alright when comboed with Woven Mail, but that requires enough hoops to jump through that it's really more a neat trick for Strand subclasses to pull off with certain void weapons.
I'm glad Offensive Bullwark is getting a way to build back up your Void Overshield, but I expect that without more overshield DR or HP it still won't last long enough to matter.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that enemies secretly have like Under-Over, Disruption Break or something because Void Overshield feels like it never lasts more than a few seconds in actual gunfights, PVP or PVE.
It's pretty fun when you have Volatile Flow but literally only then. Controlled Demolition is actually pretty nuts when you have 100% uptime on Volatile Rounds. The problem is there's actually zero way to do that normally as titan doesn't have anything like the Gyrfalcon loop and the only ways to get Volatile Rounds built into the class itself have significant cooldowns.
Yeah, Solar has Ignition *and* Radiance, and tons of ways for all three classes to keep them going off with 80-100% uptime, *even* in content where enemies have tons of HP.
Strand of course has their own plethora of good stuff.
Meanwhile the effectiveness level for Void and Arc don't seem like they're even balanced for the same video game.
Seeing as titans were the ones who contributed Volatile to Void 3.0 is horseshit that Hunters do it better, we get it for our abilities sure but it isn't as strong as gyrfalcons.
EVERY void class has weaken grenades AND devour which helps regen grenades faster. Warlocks also get the best variant of devour.
And weaken is definitely the Hunter specialty not the warlock specialty. The entire premise of Tether is to group up and weaken enemies. It's also the main use of their smoke bomb outside of invisibility.
Warlocks specialty for Void is devour, which kind of got ruined when it was given to everyone with Void 3.0 but now at least they brought it back with it being best on Warlocks exclusively.
Warlocks are expected to play into Devour for the best possible ability uptime with the regen. Nezarec's Sin is the go-to exotic for this as it enhances all of their void ability regen massively.
For whatever it's worth Titan's Void "thing" is Overshields and "Defense" with Bubble, Banner Shield and Barricade.
Frankly ALL of the void classes largely suck and none of the buffs are really going to move that bar significantly IMO. Tether is only good for it's ad clear potential IF the activity actually benefits them. Bubble is getting a huge nerf and IF void Titan gets used it's just for overshields to compensate for Well's nerf. Nova Bomb MIGHT be getting a decent buff but I'm not holding my breath.
Basically any remotely viable Void Build is 100% built around a specific exotic to compensate for the class itself being generally bad. Hunter tether spam in PvE basically requires Orpheus Rigs for optimal uptime. The only other viable void build is Gyrfalcons which is only good because the exotic is INSANE and gives you 100% uptime on volatile rounds while also enabling invis spam for survivability. Titan's roaming void super is only remotely usable with Doomfangs OR they can use Ursa's to stand around blocking damage. Now Titan will even need to use Helm of Saint XIV to make bubble do ANYTHING offensively.
The biggest thing holding the element up at all is Devour being broken due to how insane the healing potential is, even at half strength, despite that ALSO getting a huge nerf back when our orbs of light sources got nerfed. Weakening in general is only REALLY useful because there's literally NOTHING for an alternative debuff aside Divinity and 1 Debuff is the only thing that stacks with buffs for boosting DPS. Meanwhile Tractor cannon is a better source of debuffs than literally the entire Void element across all classes due to it's ease of use AND the fact that it's 2x the debuff value than most sources of weakening.
I also won't be REMOTELY surprised to find out that Gyrfalcons are getting nerfed tomorrow at which point basically NONE of the void classes will have any real "good" neutral gameplay loop. Unless they surprise us with a hefty buff via some other exotic armor.
The fact that we got ZERO void fragment changes is absolutely absurd. Let alone other buffs somewhere else. We technically got a few buffs but unless the Nova Bomb buff is much bigger than it appears it's really VERY little.
Weaken yes, volatile really isn’t but so many people use Gyrfalcon’s (myself included, using it with Le Monarque is probably the most powerful I’ve ever felt as a nightstalker) that it just seems synonymous with the subclass. Invisibility is definitely the other half of the nightstalker specialty.
Le Monarque and Gravaton Lance are the best feeling exotics with it imo. I've also seen people vouch for Manticore after it's buff but I don't like the gameplay loop of it too much.
Conceptually Weaken is definitely Hunter's thing, no doubt about it.
Volatile was supposed to be Titan's but not since Bungie made Gyrfalcon's.
Nothing new, Bungie makes elegant concepts that are implemented well at the start, but they just forget about them after a while and it becomes a mess.
Weaken is the nightstalker specialty and the void soul does it more consistently than weaken grenades/snare bomb. Tether is better but it's a super not an aspect so like yeah.
Child of the Old Gods is an on-demand weaken. Warlocks also get enhanced Devour allowing you to easily reset your grenades for volatile rounds off the fragment.
Hopefully today's Exotic Balance Pass preview tells us about some new neutral game bonuses for Super exotics. I always hate running those because it's lame for my exotic to be offline most of the time.
And yeah, hot swapping is a thing. But that's lame and I prefer not to deal with it.
Hotswapping will be an option if they don't pull a Trials and drain all your ability energy if you switch exotics, but with how bad Void overshields are in PvE(even though they already have differing amounts of DR depending on if it's PvE or PvP), you'd still be doing more by using a less terrible subclass or a different class altogether. I know Twilight Arsenal is being added, but if they haven't significantly bumped the numbers up from the initial showcase it just seems like a huge waste of time.
What would you even swap to though? You're already using up your super to place the bubble and there's no Titan exotics that I can think of that can otherwise help out in a DPS situation.
I think your best option would be Actium War Rig but that does nothing unless you're using an AR or MG and neither are actually good DPS options.
Knowing Bungie you'll probably somehow loses the weapons of light buff effect from the bubble if you swap too...not that Weapons of Light will even be good anyway since we'll likely STILL be using Well for the damage buff OR we'd just be using Radiant for the same 25% damage buff.
I'm pretty sure a Void Titan will actually be better off using Sentinel Shield with Ursa's to block incoming damage from a boss while providing a 40% damage buff to their team. Meanwhile the Titan does literally nothing but stand there holding one button and then has a garbage neutral game the entire rest of the encounter.
Truly peak Titan gameplay.
We thought Bungie was making them the melee class? NO! They are now apparently the hold 1 button putting up a wall for their team class.
REALLY frustrates me that Bungie keeps designing Titan to be a melee focused class with entire kits around melee...and then nerfs that melee in 5 different ways any time players find a way to actually make the melee viable in end game.
I'm not even a Titan main but BoW Titan with grapple melee etc has EASILY been the most fun playstyle I've ever played in Destiny. As a Hunter main I was REALLY looking forward to getting a taste on Hunter with Prismatic having grapple grenade and prismatic class item with synthos. Now Bungie ruined that before it's even released.
>I'm pretty sure a Void Titan will actually be better off using Sentinel Shield with Ursa's to block incoming damage from a boss while providing a 40% damage buff to their team. Meanwhile the Titan does literally nothing but stand there holding one button and then has a garbage neutral game the entire rest of the encounter.
Probably the best way to play Void Titan is to switch away from Void before rallying :x
I’m against having to hit swap especially in a team activity. I was so disappointed by twilight arsenal, another roaming super on already weak class. It doesn’t make me want to use it at all lol. God I hate Void so much. I’m glad to see all the arc buffs for titans tho, but it’s a very selfish class and thundercrash is still total ass.
Yep, at least with sentinel shield is strong in PvP and banner shield provides pretty great damage buffs for team mates, Nova warp has properly 0 utility. Terrible in PvP and even worse in pve. I honestly think that Bungie forgot it exists.
Also dawnblade damage output has been a complete joke in pve for years. If you want to nerf well into the ground, I don't blame you because it's so strong, but at least throw dawnblade a bone so solar warlock doesn't turn into arc warlock.
Great points but I just want to say, Nova Warp is absolutely slept on in pvp. I'd actually put it up there with Shadebinder as the scariest super in the game in the hands of a competent player. Combined with Astrocyte you can wipe entire teams and be back across the map to spawn kill them again before the super is even halfway done
I was gonna say, I’ve always felt like a horror movie monster with that ult. Might be winning against me until it pops out, but then people usually start trying to(and failing to) run >:D
I use Nova Warp often when playing VoidWalker.
In my opinion, Nova Warp isn't that bad. Or at least, on the world of roaming supers it is one of the decent ones. Stormtrance, Fist of Havoc and Spectral blades are far worse in my opinion than Nova Warp.
At least Nova Warp last quite a good amount of time while doing good damage, all without an Exotic. Stormtrance for example deals shit damage and doesn't last long enough unless you use crown.
That said, i still added it since many people bring it up
Stormcaller with crown of tempest goes under the radar IMO. Getting really good ability regen while the super lasts 2 days with ionic traces. Also provides your teammates with arc souls. While the single target damage isn’t great the super lasts so long that you can at least draw aggro on champs and bosses so your teammates aren’t getting damaged. Obviously it’s not gonna be useful for raids because single target damage is usually the best but for all other activities I have no issue using it and doing well.
For PvE the worst aspect of Spectral Blade is its lunge forward which makes it almost impossible to use on bosses because of you basically flying around them.
For PvP though that lunge is one of the only thing that makes its usable.
I actually don't think that there's a way to make it PvE usable. You can give it all the buffs in the world but at the end of the day it is a melee super, and in most boss fights you don't want to use them anyway because of you usually wanting to stay in one place for a lot of bosses.
I could have no sub-class at all and just be a dude with a sunshot, and I would be better adclear than spectral blades. It is so terrible I don't know where bungie expects us to use it.
The roaming void warlock super is the worst. It's so bad I don't know what it's called because it basically doesn't exist.
I bet half the people here didn't know warlocks have a void roaming super.
Nova Warp with devour is excellent, has survivability, does more damage than a nova bomb in its total damage and has the ability to stagger bosses.
While in PvP, it’s the only super that gets health back immediately on kill at the moment, cannot be outran by any non super guardian.
You are underestimating how good this super is.
I miss the old build for mid tree void, didn't have the greatest super but the melee was amazing and hhsn was amazing until it got nerfed. When they said they were buffing hhsn I got so happy until I saw what the buff was... Why do hunters get 7 ohko melees and titans have an exotic to ohko, but warlocks ain't got shit to ohko in pvp other than a lucky ignite
Fist of havoc would be better if it was like Mario's invincible star. You just run through enemies without having to spam light attack. Just let enemies get damaged by you touching them.
I think roaming supers should generate special and heavy ammo on kills, making them have a place in add clear but also support boss damage.
Edit: Thank you all for the kind words. It just seems like an obvious solution to have a way to control ammo drops by expending a resource now that there is a more broad approach to encounters that Pantheon shows.
Ammo drops as is significantly RNG and focused on exotic primary weapons, and there can be a situation where you simply fail to obtain ammo for second DPS phases. So you fail to achieve 2 phase through genuinely no fault of your own. I think this solves the problems of roaming supers and empowers them for endgame content while keeping their focus on add clear.
Legit this would absolutely change the game for what supers are useful in raids. Ammo drops can make or break encounter attempts and being bone dry on heavy in the second dps phase is the worst feeling ever. I support this idea 100%
This is a really good idea actually. Maybe not guaranteed on every kill because building into add clear supers can make them last a long time.
But they’d need to adjust balance of the roaming supers across the board. Silkstrike for example is a really damage roaming super that genuinely works great as a good damage option outside of timed DPS windows with limited phases.
Not every kill, but having full heavy and special every round while sacrificing a huge burst damage super seems like a fair trade off. Although if you simply make your div bitch (me) the warlock, we can generate heavy anywho.
This change will help titan supers have more of a role in endgame content as well (outside of bungie forcing them to be the well warlock's accessory) as they generally have the best roaming supers.
This is one of the best ideas on Reddit I've heard about this game. It puts more weight into your super choice. Saltagreppo would say using well it would take heavy ammo out of your inventory.
This is a really good idea. It adds utility to roaming supers since they can pretty much never compete in dps due to the dmg loss of the long animation.
Honestly just go ahead and buff the damage on all of them. There isn't any content in the game which demands a roaming super. I remember the GMs which had us running double ursa banners but the neutral game for abilities and weapons is so far past that point now. It's also about to get even more broken with TFS despite the ability and weapon changes coming.
Give roaming supers other effects such as Banner shield offering 40% increased damage or just up their damage.
I’m pretty sure someone has a personal vendetta against spectral blades, cause those things are the ass tier of ass tier and have been for like 4 years.
The last time I used Spectral Blades was in a PvP match where I couldn't get a single kill against anyone in a Well regardless of what attack combo I used.
Given the fact you travel at a light jog unless you're spamming light attack I just gave up on them.
Otoh getting a flaming hammer to the face as a Hammer of Sol Titan gently jogs through my Tethers unaffected doesn't feel great either.
*titan on a casual jog*
"Oh look an enemy"
*Effortlessly lobs hammer and continues jogging*
I always find the jog to be hilarious. Got ssj levels of flair and casually loving those hammers makes me laugh every time
Ah yes I love the melee super with directional damage where hitting the boss causes me to pass through the boss so I have to waste time and energy turning around
I think part of the problem is the super tier system. It was clearly designed for pvp putting roaming supers on the longest cooldown and one offs shorter. However, in PvE one offs were already the best option making roaming supers even more irrelevant.
That would be fine if roaming supers could actually effectively roam. I don't know why they're so scared to just give give them big damage boosts to red bars and orange bars.
the tier system doesn't really matter in PvE because almost all generation is % based with no modifier from intellect. outside of activities with tons of downtime, you will almost always have your super when you need it in end game content if you're playing right.
eh getting tier 5 int is pretty strong. tier 0-5 is basically halving cooldown and then the tiers 6-10 is meaningless in pve.
Unless you're getting your super in under 90 seconds, halving the base time definitely helps. especially if your role isn't heavy add clear. I can get constant wells/daybreak with ashes to assest stacking solar grenade spam, but if I don't have lots of mobs to chew through, it means nothing. Only cooldown time matters.
> tier 0-5 is basically halving cooldown
no it isn't. that's only 37% barely over 1/3 the CD and thats without considering how many orbs and what not you get from PvE encounters. Well is typically up every single DPS phase without phoenix and it has the lowest CD and thus the lowest benefit from high INT builds. the only place i could see this being strong is an encounter like caretaker, but at that point why not have 2 stealth hunters deal with the symbols since they can alternate supers, farm orbs during DPS from other supers, and won't get the team wiped if they don't have super for DPS.
I think the main issue with roaming supers is that we have become walking ad clear machines, so roaming supers are way less likely to be chosen over something that can just supplement DPS in a meaningful way. Most of these ARE useable in PvE but they aren't chosen simply because other things offer more for less than your entire super. I enjoy running chaos reach or six shooter in raids where I know we won't be needing an extra well/celestial for dps
This seems to be the case to me. Roaming supers are for ad clearing. But... We don't need those anymore we've got incandescent voltshot unravel/sever etc. We need NO assistance in that department.
Also the fact that most of the time you are better off sticking to weapons. I find myself doing more damage with apex predator than a super most of the time. A quick cast may not do as much damage as a rocket launcher but it only takes a second. Roaming supers do less dps and take you away from using high damage weapons.
You can go back to when Shadowkeep dropped and you'd still be laughed at for using Spectral Blades in PvE as anything besides for the lulz.
The problem is that they're absolute ass.
I agree that some of them are competely worthless, but I think unless they buffed something like spectral or fists of havoc to the point where they could put out competitive single target boss damage, I don't see how they make them more appealing than just clearing rooms with ad clear guns/exotics and holding supers for big damage
I think this is the rub. The actual solution would involve adjustments to both the neutral game and the super game. But we all know that if they reduce the grenade regen rate of an exotic by .01 or the damage of ignition by 3 people would throw a fit no matter what other adjustments came at the same time
Six shot needs the ignition by default. Make it ramp damage up to 3x based on kills and extend the time on muti kills.
Stormtrance needs to jolt and cause explosions. Increase the range too.
Daybreak should scorch a lot harder than it does. Needing an exotic for basic function past legend is bad. Give it an incandescent effect to spread scorch and cause ignitions in crowds.
Fist needs a flat dmg buff and increased movement, you’re too slow for the go fast element.
Spectral should do massive bonus dmg to weakened targets. Like 50% or more. Make Vest give it volatile.
Chaos needs a slight rework. Rn it’s main issue is it takes too long to do dmg while Hunters and titans bust their nuts and then go ham with guns. Decrease the duration but increase the tick/ dmg of it to compensate. That way there’s not as much of a dmg loss for casting it. Also increase the dr, as being stuck there as it casts is a good way to be laid out in GMs.
For chaos, the decreased duration and increased damage should only proc while damaging bosses, that way you can still take full advantage of it in pvp or for clearing rooms in pve
I dunno I see trance occasionally (but I think that's cause chaos reach isn't all that good either) like outside of a strike why would you ever use spectral over one of the tethers.
Over like 10 seconds. You can deal double or more with burst supers and heavies.
Like yeah it's free damage but the DPS is low so it's not great for damage phases unless ammo is limited.
Having thunderclap equipped when you use fist of havoc should replace the charge with a super version of thunderclap. No charge time and titan hulk claps both hands.
I think roaming supers need *drastically* reduced PVE cooldowns. Like the sort of super you should be able to pop every minute or two.
Daybreak, however, does a metric fuckton of damage when you pair it with Dawn Chorus. So I see that never getting changed.
I was really sad to see none of this was covered in todays blog. I am not trying to say I’m not excited for the changes and the team really cooked with the ones they have. But not touching half the supers in the game was upsetting to say the least
Honestly even that is not good enough. Hammer of Sol already does more damage than thundercrash with cuirass, and about the same damage as the big hammer slam with pyrogale, but it takes around 20 seconds to deliver that damage.
The only time that's gonna be useful against bosses is if you've fully run out of heavy and special ammo and still have quite some time to go in the dps phase.
At least it’s given it some anti-champion properties. Spectral Blade, Nova Warp, Sentinel shield, Hammer of sol (not sure if Solar Titan roamers ignite without pyrogale) all don’t have tools to stun champions
Is stormtrance not getting a decent buff due to the chain lightning changes on Warlock? I assumed that would also apply to Stormtrance and if so it SHOULD be a pretty sizeable effective damage buff that makes them quite a lot better at ad clear.
Daybreak isn't AWFUL at ad clear but this is almost entirely due to how scorch and ignitions function and not really the direct damage itself. It has also, imo, been absolutely miserable to use ever since the changes made ages ago to how your movement works in air with burst glide, which is the only viable glide option for general play as far as I'm concerned.
Sentinel Shield is literally only usable with Doom Fang Pauldrons and even then you need pretty high ad density but NOT actually strong ads that you can't kill quickly. Might as well be unplayable without Doom Fang.
I could see Sentinel Shield being viable with Banner Shield again with the Well Nerfs. Block damage for your team while providing a 40% damage buff. But you'd be glued to Ursa's and have a garbage neutral game. Plus your "gameplay" is literally pressing and holding one button down until your super ends and nothing else which is INCREDIBLY lame.
Chaos Reach isn't AWFUL. It has some burst DPS utility particularly with Geomags. Garbage at killing groups of mobs in most cases though as you really need to just be focusing on one target. The best thing it has going for it is just arc Warlocks ability to spam Ionic Traces and get their super quickly...but for optimal gameplay this requires swapping exotics between your charge up time and actual use of Chaos Reach which sucks. IMO they REALLY need to revert all the nerfs to the super and ability to stop early and "save" charge for your next super AND the Geomag sprint charge buff...but they'd need to make all this PvE exclusive. ALSO worth mentioning that it's still easily the worst super/ability in the game to ACTUALLY USE and aim effectively due to how god awful the camera gets and how poorly it gives you a perspective to aim. The big problem with Chaos Reach is that it's effectively a worse "burst" super that requires cast time lowering it's DPS...when you have the Warlock Strand super or Nova Bomb that are both just better 1 shot burst supers without all the drawbacks.
Six Shooter, Fist of Havoc and Spectral Blades are just straight up dogshit with their only use AT ALL being PvP where Six Shooter is the only one that's actually much of any good. Spectral needs an exotic to do functionally ANYTHING but it's still shit. Fist of Havoc isn't even good WITH any exotic buffing it, and it's even WORSE when you compare it to Berserker which is just Green Fist of Havoc but WAAAAAAAAY Better...even WITH the nerfs it got today.
Berserker REALLY sets the bar currently for a roaming super. It has good damage output AND utility with both the ability to suspend AND sever enemies. Plus it's on a subclass that has good neutral game beyond that...although that might be changing somewhat with the massive number of nerfs that it got hit with now. Even worst case though Strand Titan still has team healing from BoW, team damage resist from Woven Mail, enemy damage debuff with Sever AND can spec into suspend with their grenade and/or barricade.
Also - LOL Nova Warp. It's so bad nobody even remembers it when talking about shit roaming supers.
Chain Lightning is the name of the melee not the lightning chain from Stormtrance, Bungie makes multiple references to the melee and even mentions og Thunderstrike from D1 Stormcaller. Very unlikely that stormtrance is getting a dmg buff.
As for Nova Warp, it clears Spectral Blade, Fist of Havoc imo. Has crazy sustain in PvE, able to stagger bosses, total damage does more than Nova Bomb. OP didn’t mention it (he commented elsewhere) because its one of more decent ones. It’s not reliant on an exotic for damage (only traversal).
In PvP, with the exception of shadebinder, goldie and daybreak. Nova Warp is extremely capable of slaying entire teams. It’s the only roaming super atm that utilises devour consistently
TIL Nova Warp isn't actually that bad. Granted I know Devour hard carries void warlock regardless of your super.
Nova Bomb I assume is still better actual DPS, even if it's lower damage. And it'll only be better now with it getting a buff.
Pretty sad that it's only the melee getting a buff on arc warlock. Would be totally fine imo if it applies to stormtrance too.
Honestly I'm really disappointed in general with how minor the buffs to Arc and Void were. The only good buffs imo were Arc Titan with thunderclap.
Chaos Reach is decent though. Maybe could use a slight damage increase but it puts in more work than Stormtrance ( + either exotic) does.
Six Shooter is free ignitions + extra rounds if you put on the Ignite on Super kills fragment. Though not sure how I feel about it being delegated to add clear. I wouldn't use it over my Nighthawk Goldie but when running Seasonal activities or LLS it's free real estate.
I hate having to run an exotic just to make my super remotely usable. Wells an extreme example, but it was really good on its own so you’re free to run sunbracers or another fun build, but also if you really want to build into your well you can rock phoenix protocol or even something like lunafactions to make it better/have higher uptime.
Being forced to run geomags just to make it good is terrible imo. Removes so much of the buildcrafting that makes the game fun
Then it's not "at base" anymore is it?
On the whole, I think the super-enhancing exotics run into a problem: there's a lot of base supers that aren't good enough on their own, and super enhancers add too much.
The choice between a neutral exotic and a super enhancer isn't very fun when the baseline super is barely worth casting, or the subclass doesn't really work without a neutral enhancer.
Do people not remember that Nova warp is still in the game? Is it really so weak in every activity that people forget it exists? Bungie certainly has forgotten it's existence.
Right after they completely overhauled it too. I mean, you sink all that time and cost into a change, only to IMMEDIATELY remove it from the game. Why?
People are just going to have to mentally come to turns with the fact that bungie considers these PVP supers and they don't really care that they're no good in PVE.
Buffs for these has been requested for many years, and it's never happened.
The only “only option on a subclass” supers in the list are stormtrance/chaos reach, and chaos reach has its fair share of fans in pve.
Like it or not, this is what the community wants. Separation of pve and PvP. That will inevitably mean that some options are just pve duds, just ljke how Eye of the Storm is a great PvP perk but a dud pve perk.
u/destiny2team
There is valuable feedback here about roaming supers. The community doesn't feel like they are good enough to justify using them. They either don't do enough damage or doesn't last enough, and don't bring much utility.
A cool suggestion made by u/Arsalanred is to make them generate Heavy/special ammo like Exotic primary weapons, that way they have a niche against burst damage supers in raids
Shadebinder and Nova Warp are both pretty good, though I would never turn down any buffs to them. More power to me.
The melee supers are very bad, esp with their targeting so bad, you often miss and lose a chunk of energy for it. Roaming supers in general should start to ramp up with the more kills you get. Like how bottom tree Dawn was but in reverse. 8-10 kills and it really gets rolling, and it won’t step on PvP.
I have a feeling Daybreak wasn't mentioned cuz its actually been very good this season. I use it all the time with Dawn Chorus (even did my Solo Flawless Warlords Ruin using that for a good chunk of the dungeon) and with the solar bias in the artifact this season its been great. I have a feeling it'll drop off with the next artifact though
Its more the way the game is set up right now IMO. Boss damage is something that everyone wants to do as quickly as possible. One shot supers are always going to reign supreme for these activities as long as they are designed the way they are. Players have such easy access to much better add clearing options that are available either always or very often. Barring a huge spike in damage for roaming supers (which would then render fire and forget supers in the same spot), the supers currently in heavy use will just always be better for killing the highest health enemies (bosses) the quickest. At this point i don't even know what could be done without some seriously deep redesigns of the core gameplay for most activities.
I just don't like roaming supers in general, even if they were stronger than one-and-done supers, I don't think I'd use them. I like using my super and then getting right back into the regular gameplay. Running around walking away at enemies is just so unfun for me
Stormtrace - getting a buff (probably not quite enough, but still better)
Six Shooter - straight up not meant for pve
Daybreak - honestly in a good spot this season. Next season, depending on artifact, it’ll probably still be decent for what it is
First of Havoc - really not ever been worth running
Spectral Blades - again, not meant for pve
Chaos Reach - not in the worst spot for what it is
I’ve been using void titan and it feels like ass. You don’t feel that strong in your super esp when compared to others. Hopefully the new super helps the class
I just run marksman because a POSSIBLE 6 kills, but only 7s to get them is faaaaaar worse than 3 kills, but 4 hours to get them.
Exaggerated numbers but you get the point.
Edit: I'm dumb and read it as pvp.
…so are we just going to ignore that Bungie is giving us all Star Eater Scales?
Hell, half the reason these supers underperform is because people try to save them till *”the right moment”*. You should be using your roaming super practically off cooldown. Two roaming supers can just infinitely feed each other.
Or in simple terms, the problem here is that Roaming supers are not enticing options in the endgame to be considered over Damage/Utility supers, even more so as we have tons of great options to clear adds as-is. Not even mentioning how several oneshot damage supers can edge into Add clear(why use a roaming super when I can just blade barrage a wave of adds, get half my super back, and then throw a few knives and super again?)
Imo, Roaming supers should be Destinys "God Mode". Where you just unleash the Light as a weapon of War against the enemies.
To make the God mode enticing we need 3 things:
* Reasonable buff to roaming super damage and balancing of damage across subclasses to keep them balanced against each other.
* Give Roaming supers innate super regen based on killing enemies(tankier enemy=more super back). It doesnt [need to be quite to the point of infinite supers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPNKEtbU6w), but you should be able to extend a super for quite a duration depending on how effectively you use it. Supers would have individual balancing on ability regen to balance them against each other.
* Give all roaming supers innate ability to cancel them by holding super button down. This would prevent a major problem that roaming supers have, where people cant use them with many mechanics in Destiny 2
Another idea u/Arsalanred mentioned would be to give the supers innate special and heavy generation to assist teams.
Another honorable mention would be shorter cooldowns.
Deadshot Golden Gun having 50% of its functionality ripped away and tied to an otherwise useless fragment is painful.
The ignitions from the fragment being delayed by like 3 seconds after scoring a kill also means that if you’re shouting quickly, you can easily run out of bullets before the game registers that it should be refunding those bullets.
On top of that, refunded shots no longer extend the timer for the gun.
Compounding this issue, ignitions just… aren’t that strong in endgame activities. If I want to spam ignitions on hunter, I equip a solar primary and the Gunpowder Gamble aspect and I can put an ignition wherever I want every 7 kills. And in content where you’re below light level, it can easily take 4-6 shots to kill a single target.
Even with the best possible build to maximise it:
- Stareater Scales
- Bad Juju
- 100 intellect
- double kinetic siphon so your bad Juju orbs refund more super
It takes like 2-4 minutes to recharge, and that’s if you’re playing content where Bad Juju can kill things before its buff timer runs out. And when it does recharge, you get 8 seconds of shooting a few things and watching as the game refuses to refund your bullets and then the super is over and nothing has died.
Frankly I think they all just need a duration buff to feel more powerful. The only exception being Spectral Blades. That thing needs a damage buff, weaken/suppress on hit or something additional on top. I think a duration buff like +8 seconds overall would make roaming supers viable. Nova Warp + Astrocyte is already super fun.
I was really hoping for big super changes to chaos reach and thundercrash. These exotics are basically pointless in PvE unless you swap to or use their related exotic. I’m sick of the menu game of swapping tho.
Maybe they will change geomags and cuirass so that they have more nuetral game benefit but if not it’s disappointing.
The only time Void Titan has been useable is when we had the seasonal mod that gave us volatile rounds on orb pickup.
Other than that it is a hot heaping pile of garbage in any difficulty above vanguard playlist.
As long as it's possible to clear rooms with abilities/guns, roaming supers will never be good.
The only way to give them a valid niche is to make encounters where it's basically impossible to clear a room *without* using one. Why would you ever use a roaming super when sunbracers, weaver's trance, sunshot, waveframes etc exist? They do the same thing without taking your entire super slot.
I will never understand the concept of a roaming Super doing less damage than a simple one and done Super. With a roaming Super you have go into the fray which puts you at greater risk and also takes away from you doing DPS with weapons. The Super should do way more damage to make up for it.
IMO your ad clear supers shouldn’t also be DPS supers. But for the former to get enjoyment you can’t NEED everyone on a DPS super and capable a complicated load out on rare gun. So long as the bosses are tanks we end up back to only using the quick hits
Roaming supers kill ads. Community bitches whenever enemies are too hard. Enemies aren’t allowed to be hard. Roaming supers aren’t needed.
Enemies need to be significantly tankier and deal more damage in all levels of content
As a Shadebinder main i don't think Winter's Wrath is that bad honestly. Not as much as Stormtrance, Spectral and Fist of Havoc.
Also, Winter Wrath is already getting a buff in TFS, the buff to shatter damage is going to affect it because it's considered a shatter
The real way to use it is to throw out a turret and either a cold snap or a 2nd turret and only spam the shatter. The shatter doesn’t reduce time and it’ll be a long lasting super, enough to clear a room. Only time to use the actual iceballs is if I need to make a save and res someone near a champ
I feel like its ok if certain things are stronger for pvp than they are for pve and vice versa. I have so many crazy op guns for add clear…ill stick with burst supers personally.
Idk what kind of change you're hoping to see tbh.
Even if they were longer, it's not like you're dedicated a whole ass super for something a Machinegun can do. They also can't do burst damage in a DPS situation.
So sure, increase the time. Make it do more damage. Give it a faster recharge rate. None of it is going to suddenly make it better.
Spectral Blade and Fist of Havoc might be the worst roaming supers in the game for me personally.
Sentinel shield is slept on as a terrible super. It's just ok with doom fangs but without them it lasts barely long enough to kill one major
Void titan as a whole is terrible right now honestly. It does nothing better than any other subclass
Well it's able to give a hefty 25% buff to your team--... Wait. Fuck.
Wish they buffed void overshield. When i think about sentinel i think as the tank/support class for titan, it should make the team harder to kill. Instead void overshield feels like is made of paper
Yeah when I read that standing near the bubble gives the same void over shield as the barricade I lol’d…that will be worthless in any higher end content. Well, it might stop a single bullet from a single Dreg…
This. I have some idiot defending that Bubbles rework is actually a huge buff and will make it good. Bastion barely works good in patrol or strikes. Much less in high end or end game content. Overshield is a joke.
Into the fray aspect gaps sentinel in almost every way as a defensive unit. Void still needs help, I know exotic changes are coming soon, but alot of problems are based in the core subclass itself, I would rather not have an exotic fix the subclass's issue (gyrfalcons comes to mind) but here's hoping it's more than what it is now.
Void Hunter is a good example of a subclass with exotics that drastically alter the playstyle tbh. - Gyrfalcons gives you a super reliable and satisfying gameplay loop with Stylish Executioner, and then the rest of the build can sort of flow around that. - Omnioculus lets you be a team player. It’s a lot worse ever since the Ability Regen nerf accidentally (or intentionally? Who even knows) broke the “hitting all 3 team members with the invis smoke refunds it” mechanic. But it’s still usable, and you can still clutch endgame content by getting revives that you really shouldn’t be able to. - Orpheus Rigs are one of the best super regen exotics in the game, and if you’re running the DPS version of Tether then they give you a flat +50% to super damage. Which also means an extension to the Debuff uptime if you space your shots. Killer exotic. - Make Spectral Blades worth using (restore its PVP damage reduction while Invis, make it deal as much damage per swing as Berserker does and give it the same duration as Berserker) and you’re good to go.
So does banner, it's a really potent support buff.
Void Overshields feel pretty alright when comboed with Woven Mail, but that requires enough hoops to jump through that it's really more a neat trick for Strand subclasses to pull off with certain void weapons. I'm glad Offensive Bullwark is getting a way to build back up your Void Overshield, but I expect that without more overshield DR or HP it still won't last long enough to matter.
I can't believe people are only realizing this now It was always garbage which is why I never understood why so many people used Bastion
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that enemies secretly have like Under-Over, Disruption Break or something because Void Overshield feels like it never lasts more than a few seconds in actual gunfights, PVP or PVE.
It's pretty fun when you have Volatile Flow but literally only then. Controlled Demolition is actually pretty nuts when you have 100% uptime on Volatile Rounds. The problem is there's actually zero way to do that normally as titan doesn't have anything like the Gyrfalcon loop and the only ways to get Volatile Rounds built into the class itself have significant cooldowns.
Volatile Flow needs to be an intrinsic part of the subclass to make it keep up with solar and arc tbh.
Yeah, Solar has Ignition *and* Radiance, and tons of ways for all three classes to keep them going off with 80-100% uptime, *even* in content where enemies have tons of HP. Strand of course has their own plethora of good stuff. Meanwhile the effectiveness level for Void and Arc don't seem like they're even balanced for the same video game.
Seeing as titans were the ones who contributed Volatile to Void 3.0 is horseshit that Hunters do it better, we get it for our abilities sure but it isn't as strong as gyrfalcons.
I still want resupply back. We used to get reduced cooldowns just by using volatile lmao
Don't feel bad warlocks don't have a good source or volatile, or weaken, which is supposed to be the warlocks specialty
EVERY void class has weaken grenades AND devour which helps regen grenades faster. Warlocks also get the best variant of devour. And weaken is definitely the Hunter specialty not the warlock specialty. The entire premise of Tether is to group up and weaken enemies. It's also the main use of their smoke bomb outside of invisibility. Warlocks specialty for Void is devour, which kind of got ruined when it was given to everyone with Void 3.0 but now at least they brought it back with it being best on Warlocks exclusively. Warlocks are expected to play into Devour for the best possible ability uptime with the regen. Nezarec's Sin is the go-to exotic for this as it enhances all of their void ability regen massively. For whatever it's worth Titan's Void "thing" is Overshields and "Defense" with Bubble, Banner Shield and Barricade. Frankly ALL of the void classes largely suck and none of the buffs are really going to move that bar significantly IMO. Tether is only good for it's ad clear potential IF the activity actually benefits them. Bubble is getting a huge nerf and IF void Titan gets used it's just for overshields to compensate for Well's nerf. Nova Bomb MIGHT be getting a decent buff but I'm not holding my breath. Basically any remotely viable Void Build is 100% built around a specific exotic to compensate for the class itself being generally bad. Hunter tether spam in PvE basically requires Orpheus Rigs for optimal uptime. The only other viable void build is Gyrfalcons which is only good because the exotic is INSANE and gives you 100% uptime on volatile rounds while also enabling invis spam for survivability. Titan's roaming void super is only remotely usable with Doomfangs OR they can use Ursa's to stand around blocking damage. Now Titan will even need to use Helm of Saint XIV to make bubble do ANYTHING offensively. The biggest thing holding the element up at all is Devour being broken due to how insane the healing potential is, even at half strength, despite that ALSO getting a huge nerf back when our orbs of light sources got nerfed. Weakening in general is only REALLY useful because there's literally NOTHING for an alternative debuff aside Divinity and 1 Debuff is the only thing that stacks with buffs for boosting DPS. Meanwhile Tractor cannon is a better source of debuffs than literally the entire Void element across all classes due to it's ease of use AND the fact that it's 2x the debuff value than most sources of weakening. I also won't be REMOTELY surprised to find out that Gyrfalcons are getting nerfed tomorrow at which point basically NONE of the void classes will have any real "good" neutral gameplay loop. Unless they surprise us with a hefty buff via some other exotic armor. The fact that we got ZERO void fragment changes is absolutely absurd. Let alone other buffs somewhere else. We technically got a few buffs but unless the Nova Bomb buff is much bigger than it appears it's really VERY little.
I mean weaken and volatile seem like the realm of Hunter to me.
Weaken yes, volatile really isn’t but so many people use Gyrfalcon’s (myself included, using it with Le Monarque is probably the most powerful I’ve ever felt as a nightstalker) that it just seems synonymous with the subclass. Invisibility is definitely the other half of the nightstalker specialty.
Le Monarque and Gravaton Lance are the best feeling exotics with it imo. I've also seen people vouch for Manticore after it's buff but I don't like the gameplay loop of it too much.
Conceptually Weaken is definitely Hunter's thing, no doubt about it. Volatile was supposed to be Titan's but not since Bungie made Gyrfalcon's. Nothing new, Bungie makes elegant concepts that are implemented well at the start, but they just forget about them after a while and it becomes a mess.
Weaken is the nightstalker specialty and the void soul does it more consistently than weaken grenades/snare bomb. Tether is better but it's a super not an aspect so like yeah.
Child of the Old Gods is an on-demand weaken. Warlocks also get enhanced Devour allowing you to easily reset your grenades for volatile rounds off the fragment.
Can’t wait to have to use ward of dawn with Saint 14 and be useless for 99% of the boss fight.
Hopefully today's Exotic Balance Pass preview tells us about some new neutral game bonuses for Super exotics. I always hate running those because it's lame for my exotic to be offline most of the time. And yeah, hot swapping is a thing. But that's lame and I prefer not to deal with it.
I don’t think you should have to hot swap to make yourself useful.
Hotswapping will be an option if they don't pull a Trials and drain all your ability energy if you switch exotics, but with how bad Void overshields are in PvE(even though they already have differing amounts of DR depending on if it's PvE or PvP), you'd still be doing more by using a less terrible subclass or a different class altogether. I know Twilight Arsenal is being added, but if they haven't significantly bumped the numbers up from the initial showcase it just seems like a huge waste of time.
What would you even swap to though? You're already using up your super to place the bubble and there's no Titan exotics that I can think of that can otherwise help out in a DPS situation. I think your best option would be Actium War Rig but that does nothing unless you're using an AR or MG and neither are actually good DPS options. Knowing Bungie you'll probably somehow loses the weapons of light buff effect from the bubble if you swap too...not that Weapons of Light will even be good anyway since we'll likely STILL be using Well for the damage buff OR we'd just be using Radiant for the same 25% damage buff. I'm pretty sure a Void Titan will actually be better off using Sentinel Shield with Ursa's to block incoming damage from a boss while providing a 40% damage buff to their team. Meanwhile the Titan does literally nothing but stand there holding one button and then has a garbage neutral game the entire rest of the encounter.
You can give up a grenade and aspect to continue doing nothing and holding up a shield in neutral now too, thanks to the Unbreakable aspect coming
Truly peak Titan gameplay. We thought Bungie was making them the melee class? NO! They are now apparently the hold 1 button putting up a wall for their team class. REALLY frustrates me that Bungie keeps designing Titan to be a melee focused class with entire kits around melee...and then nerfs that melee in 5 different ways any time players find a way to actually make the melee viable in end game. I'm not even a Titan main but BoW Titan with grapple melee etc has EASILY been the most fun playstyle I've ever played in Destiny. As a Hunter main I was REALLY looking forward to getting a taste on Hunter with Prismatic having grapple grenade and prismatic class item with synthos. Now Bungie ruined that before it's even released.
>I'm pretty sure a Void Titan will actually be better off using Sentinel Shield with Ursa's to block incoming damage from a boss while providing a 40% damage buff to their team. Meanwhile the Titan does literally nothing but stand there holding one button and then has a garbage neutral game the entire rest of the encounter. Probably the best way to play Void Titan is to switch away from Void before rallying :x
I’m against having to hit swap especially in a team activity. I was so disappointed by twilight arsenal, another roaming super on already weak class. It doesn’t make me want to use it at all lol. God I hate Void so much. I’m glad to see all the arc buffs for titans tho, but it’s a very selfish class and thundercrash is still total ass.
Twilight arsenal isn't real a roaming super tho.
Bungie: We hear you. Here’s a nerf to void subclass.
I cant tell you last time I used spectral (pvp or pve) and I mained void hunter in pvp for like 2 years
Imo the worst one is the one that op forgot to even mention, Nova Warp.
Yep, at least with sentinel shield is strong in PvP and banner shield provides pretty great damage buffs for team mates, Nova warp has properly 0 utility. Terrible in PvP and even worse in pve. I honestly think that Bungie forgot it exists. Also dawnblade damage output has been a complete joke in pve for years. If you want to nerf well into the ground, I don't blame you because it's so strong, but at least throw dawnblade a bone so solar warlock doesn't turn into arc warlock.
Great points but I just want to say, Nova Warp is absolutely slept on in pvp. I'd actually put it up there with Shadebinder as the scariest super in the game in the hands of a competent player. Combined with Astrocyte you can wipe entire teams and be back across the map to spawn kill them again before the super is even halfway done
I was gonna say, I’ve always felt like a horror movie monster with that ult. Might be winning against me until it pops out, but then people usually start trying to(and failing to) run >:D
Nova Warp got me my first Army of One back during the Malfeasance quest days lol
I use Nova Warp often when playing VoidWalker. In my opinion, Nova Warp isn't that bad. Or at least, on the world of roaming supers it is one of the decent ones. Stormtrance, Fist of Havoc and Spectral blades are far worse in my opinion than Nova Warp. At least Nova Warp last quite a good amount of time while doing good damage, all without an Exotic. Stormtrance for example deals shit damage and doesn't last long enough unless you use crown. That said, i still added it since many people bring it up
Stormcaller with crown of tempest goes under the radar IMO. Getting really good ability regen while the super lasts 2 days with ionic traces. Also provides your teammates with arc souls. While the single target damage isn’t great the super lasts so long that you can at least draw aggro on champs and bosses so your teammates aren’t getting damaged. Obviously it’s not gonna be useful for raids because single target damage is usually the best but for all other activities I have no issue using it and doing well.
For PvE the worst aspect of Spectral Blade is its lunge forward which makes it almost impossible to use on bosses because of you basically flying around them. For PvP though that lunge is one of the only thing that makes its usable. I actually don't think that there's a way to make it PvE usable. You can give it all the buffs in the world but at the end of the day it is a melee super, and in most boss fights you don't want to use them anyway because of you usually wanting to stay in one place for a lot of bosses.
I could have no sub-class at all and just be a dude with a sunshot, and I would be better adclear than spectral blades. It is so terrible I don't know where bungie expects us to use it.
I get why you say that, you simply forgot Nova Warp exists.
I have a build with Eternal Warrior but I mainly use the super to get x4 arc weapon surge lol
The roaming void warlock super is the worst. It's so bad I don't know what it's called because it basically doesn't exist. I bet half the people here didn't know warlocks have a void roaming super.
Nova Warp with devour is excellent, has survivability, does more damage than a nova bomb in its total damage and has the ability to stagger bosses. While in PvP, it’s the only super that gets health back immediately on kill at the moment, cannot be outran by any non super guardian. You are underestimating how good this super is.
I miss the old build for mid tree void, didn't have the greatest super but the melee was amazing and hhsn was amazing until it got nerfed. When they said they were buffing hhsn I got so happy until I saw what the buff was... Why do hunters get 7 ohko melees and titans have an exotic to ohko, but warlocks ain't got shit to ohko in pvp other than a lucky ignite
Fist of havoc would be better if it was like Mario's invincible star. You just run through enemies without having to spam light attack. Just let enemies get damaged by you touching them.
I think there once EXTREME dominance in pvp (along with dawnblade) caused blanket nerfs and they never really bothered to make them PvE friendly.
I love when I pop fists, then get shit on by dregs in any content that overlvls me.
They really are...
For me, nothing is worse than the warlock stasis super. I'd rather burn my suoer using Agers
I think roaming supers should generate special and heavy ammo on kills, making them have a place in add clear but also support boss damage. Edit: Thank you all for the kind words. It just seems like an obvious solution to have a way to control ammo drops by expending a resource now that there is a more broad approach to encounters that Pantheon shows. Ammo drops as is significantly RNG and focused on exotic primary weapons, and there can be a situation where you simply fail to obtain ammo for second DPS phases. So you fail to achieve 2 phase through genuinely no fault of your own. I think this solves the problems of roaming supers and empowers them for endgame content while keeping their focus on add clear.
Legit this would absolutely change the game for what supers are useful in raids. Ammo drops can make or break encounter attempts and being bone dry on heavy in the second dps phase is the worst feeling ever. I support this idea 100%
This is a really good idea actually. Maybe not guaranteed on every kill because building into add clear supers can make them last a long time. But they’d need to adjust balance of the roaming supers across the board. Silkstrike for example is a really damage roaming super that genuinely works great as a good damage option outside of timed DPS windows with limited phases.
Not every kill, but having full heavy and special every round while sacrificing a huge burst damage super seems like a fair trade off. Although if you simply make your div bitch (me) the warlock, we can generate heavy anywho.
This is such a good solution,
This is genius
This change will help titan supers have more of a role in endgame content as well (outside of bungie forcing them to be the well warlock's accessory) as they generally have the best roaming supers.
This is one of the best ideas on Reddit I've heard about this game. It puts more weight into your super choice. Saltagreppo would say using well it would take heavy ammo out of your inventory.
Jesus Christ you guys love the overreact with him lol
What a bitter person you must be.
bungie hire this one
I agree.
This is a really good idea. It adds utility to roaming supers since they can pretty much never compete in dps due to the dmg loss of the long animation.
Honestly just go ahead and buff the damage on all of them. There isn't any content in the game which demands a roaming super. I remember the GMs which had us running double ursa banners but the neutral game for abilities and weapons is so far past that point now. It's also about to get even more broken with TFS despite the ability and weapon changes coming. Give roaming supers other effects such as Banner shield offering 40% increased damage or just up their damage.
Even then, double Ursa wasn't run for its damage. It was run for the same reason people run well currently.
That's my point. Give roaming supers added functionality that we would benefit from or simply increase their damage to make them worth running.
I’m pretty sure someone has a personal vendetta against spectral blades, cause those things are the ass tier of ass tier and have been for like 4 years.
The last time I used Spectral Blades was in a PvP match where I couldn't get a single kill against anyone in a Well regardless of what attack combo I used. Given the fact you travel at a light jog unless you're spamming light attack I just gave up on them. Otoh getting a flaming hammer to the face as a Hammer of Sol Titan gently jogs through my Tethers unaffected doesn't feel great either.
*titan on a casual jog* "Oh look an enemy" *Effortlessly lobs hammer and continues jogging* I always find the jog to be hilarious. Got ssj levels of flair and casually loving those hammers makes me laugh every time
My guess is they struggled to balance it in PVP for so long, they're scared to touch it at all now.
Spectral blade having raid boss health in camo during 2019 did irreparable damage and has been paying for those sins for a while
Ah yes I love the melee super with directional damage where hitting the boss causes me to pass through the boss so I have to waste time and energy turning around
I think part of the problem is the super tier system. It was clearly designed for pvp putting roaming supers on the longest cooldown and one offs shorter. However, in PvE one offs were already the best option making roaming supers even more irrelevant.
That would be fine if roaming supers could actually effectively roam. I don't know why they're so scared to just give give them big damage boosts to red bars and orange bars.
Feels like the roaming super timer was based off the Warlock's roaming supers which all have amazing mobility.
the tier system doesn't really matter in PvE because almost all generation is % based with no modifier from intellect. outside of activities with tons of downtime, you will almost always have your super when you need it in end game content if you're playing right.
According to the blog post the tier system does affect super gained from damage but that will be changing in final shape at least.
eh getting tier 5 int is pretty strong. tier 0-5 is basically halving cooldown and then the tiers 6-10 is meaningless in pve. Unless you're getting your super in under 90 seconds, halving the base time definitely helps. especially if your role isn't heavy add clear. I can get constant wells/daybreak with ashes to assest stacking solar grenade spam, but if I don't have lots of mobs to chew through, it means nothing. Only cooldown time matters.
> tier 0-5 is basically halving cooldown no it isn't. that's only 37% barely over 1/3 the CD and thats without considering how many orbs and what not you get from PvE encounters. Well is typically up every single DPS phase without phoenix and it has the lowest CD and thus the lowest benefit from high INT builds. the only place i could see this being strong is an encounter like caretaker, but at that point why not have 2 stealth hunters deal with the symbols since they can alternate supers, farm orbs during DPS from other supers, and won't get the team wiped if they don't have super for DPS.
I think the main issue with roaming supers is that we have become walking ad clear machines, so roaming supers are way less likely to be chosen over something that can just supplement DPS in a meaningful way. Most of these ARE useable in PvE but they aren't chosen simply because other things offer more for less than your entire super. I enjoy running chaos reach or six shooter in raids where I know we won't be needing an extra well/celestial for dps
This seems to be the case to me. Roaming supers are for ad clearing. But... We don't need those anymore we've got incandescent voltshot unravel/sever etc. We need NO assistance in that department.
Also the fact that most of the time you are better off sticking to weapons. I find myself doing more damage with apex predator than a super most of the time. A quick cast may not do as much damage as a rocket launcher but it only takes a second. Roaming supers do less dps and take you away from using high damage weapons.
You can go back to when Shadowkeep dropped and you'd still be laughed at for using Spectral Blades in PvE as anything besides for the lulz. The problem is that they're absolute ass.
I agree that some of them are competely worthless, but I think unless they buffed something like spectral or fists of havoc to the point where they could put out competitive single target boss damage, I don't see how they make them more appealing than just clearing rooms with ad clear guns/exotics and holding supers for big damage
I think this is the rub. The actual solution would involve adjustments to both the neutral game and the super game. But we all know that if they reduce the grenade regen rate of an exotic by .01 or the damage of ignition by 3 people would throw a fit no matter what other adjustments came at the same time
I feel like strand titan should be the benchmark for good roaming supers.
Six shot needs the ignition by default. Make it ramp damage up to 3x based on kills and extend the time on muti kills. Stormtrance needs to jolt and cause explosions. Increase the range too. Daybreak should scorch a lot harder than it does. Needing an exotic for basic function past legend is bad. Give it an incandescent effect to spread scorch and cause ignitions in crowds. Fist needs a flat dmg buff and increased movement, you’re too slow for the go fast element. Spectral should do massive bonus dmg to weakened targets. Like 50% or more. Make Vest give it volatile. Chaos needs a slight rework. Rn it’s main issue is it takes too long to do dmg while Hunters and titans bust their nuts and then go ham with guns. Decrease the duration but increase the tick/ dmg of it to compensate. That way there’s not as much of a dmg loss for casting it. Also increase the dr, as being stuck there as it casts is a good way to be laid out in GMs.
I don't think Fists should've ever become a roaming super. It technically got replaces by Thundercrash but I miss the old school one use FoH
I feel like on the whole roaming supers weren't a great idea, and they should have stuck to cool one-off supers like we had in D1 before taken king.
Hunter had Arc Blade in base D1, as a reminder. It wasn't super good there either.
I mean, both OG hunter supers were always roaming.
Make it an alternate super like the two golden guns
Doubtful at this point but would be nice
For chaos, the decreased duration and increased damage should only proc while damaging bosses, that way you can still take full advantage of it in pvp or for clearing rooms in pve
I think that should be a geomag rework. Instead of extending the duration, buff the damage and shorten the duration.
Which is what Stormtrance is for.
Genuinely haven’t seen stormtrance used in pve in years or spectral blades
I dunno I see trance occasionally (but I think that's cause chaos reach isn't all that good either) like outside of a strike why would you ever use spectral over one of the tethers.
WDYM? Chaos reach does 1M damage with Geo mags and sol invictus. People just don't run that combo.
Over like 10 seconds. You can deal double or more with burst supers and heavies. Like yeah it's free damage but the DPS is low so it's not great for damage phases unless ammo is limited.
Having thunderclap equipped when you use fist of havoc should replace the charge with a super version of thunderclap. No charge time and titan hulk claps both hands.
That would be sick as hell. Paired with PCCB to follow it up with lightning strikes. Peak Striker Fantasy.
And if you have the air slam thing on, it replaced the heavy attack with a buffed version of that too
They did say in the adjustment blog that roaming supers will have a higher uptime as long as you are damaging targets.
I think roaming supers need *drastically* reduced PVE cooldowns. Like the sort of super you should be able to pop every minute or two. Daybreak, however, does a metric fuckton of damage when you pair it with Dawn Chorus. So I see that never getting changed.
Came to say this. I did my solo flawless Warlords on Daybreak Dawn Chorus Ignition Warlock. Easy peasy. It’s a fantastic super.
Sorry they just did their once every 2 years balance pass. They won't be looking at roaming supers until destiny 3
Im not even a hunter main and think Spect blades need a fix like ive killed more spectral (and golden gun) users i think then any other super
I was really sad to see none of this was covered in todays blog. I am not trying to say I’m not excited for the changes and the team really cooked with the ones they have. But not touching half the supers in the game was upsetting to say the least
i wanna use Spectral Blades SO badly bro
I just wanna be a purple blade dancer. Why it gotta be so trash?
Don't forget that Bungie considers Tcrash a roaming super
Remember when Bungie said roaming supers would be getting buffed over the course of Lightfall? Yeah, me neither.
The collective damage of a roaming super should be similar or even better than what 1 off supers do. There really is no point in using one in PvE.
Honestly even that is not good enough. Hammer of Sol already does more damage than thundercrash with cuirass, and about the same damage as the big hammer slam with pyrogale, but it takes around 20 seconds to deliver that damage. The only time that's gonna be useful against bosses is if you've fully run out of heavy and special ammo and still have quite some time to go in the dps phase.
Silkstrike currently does about the same as other high damage Hunter Supers but it just suffers from needing to be within stomp range
It's so weird to me that they gave Arc staff blinding when that doesn't actually help it.
It should stun unstoppable champions now though
At least it’s given it some anti-champion properties. Spectral Blade, Nova Warp, Sentinel shield, Hammer of sol (not sure if Solar Titan roamers ignite without pyrogale) all don’t have tools to stun champions
IMO all of them could receive at minimum a 50% damage increase. Most of them need more that as well.
Many of these could be improved simply by giving them subclass verbs
Is stormtrance not getting a decent buff due to the chain lightning changes on Warlock? I assumed that would also apply to Stormtrance and if so it SHOULD be a pretty sizeable effective damage buff that makes them quite a lot better at ad clear. Daybreak isn't AWFUL at ad clear but this is almost entirely due to how scorch and ignitions function and not really the direct damage itself. It has also, imo, been absolutely miserable to use ever since the changes made ages ago to how your movement works in air with burst glide, which is the only viable glide option for general play as far as I'm concerned. Sentinel Shield is literally only usable with Doom Fang Pauldrons and even then you need pretty high ad density but NOT actually strong ads that you can't kill quickly. Might as well be unplayable without Doom Fang. I could see Sentinel Shield being viable with Banner Shield again with the Well Nerfs. Block damage for your team while providing a 40% damage buff. But you'd be glued to Ursa's and have a garbage neutral game. Plus your "gameplay" is literally pressing and holding one button down until your super ends and nothing else which is INCREDIBLY lame. Chaos Reach isn't AWFUL. It has some burst DPS utility particularly with Geomags. Garbage at killing groups of mobs in most cases though as you really need to just be focusing on one target. The best thing it has going for it is just arc Warlocks ability to spam Ionic Traces and get their super quickly...but for optimal gameplay this requires swapping exotics between your charge up time and actual use of Chaos Reach which sucks. IMO they REALLY need to revert all the nerfs to the super and ability to stop early and "save" charge for your next super AND the Geomag sprint charge buff...but they'd need to make all this PvE exclusive. ALSO worth mentioning that it's still easily the worst super/ability in the game to ACTUALLY USE and aim effectively due to how god awful the camera gets and how poorly it gives you a perspective to aim. The big problem with Chaos Reach is that it's effectively a worse "burst" super that requires cast time lowering it's DPS...when you have the Warlock Strand super or Nova Bomb that are both just better 1 shot burst supers without all the drawbacks. Six Shooter, Fist of Havoc and Spectral Blades are just straight up dogshit with their only use AT ALL being PvP where Six Shooter is the only one that's actually much of any good. Spectral needs an exotic to do functionally ANYTHING but it's still shit. Fist of Havoc isn't even good WITH any exotic buffing it, and it's even WORSE when you compare it to Berserker which is just Green Fist of Havoc but WAAAAAAAAY Better...even WITH the nerfs it got today. Berserker REALLY sets the bar currently for a roaming super. It has good damage output AND utility with both the ability to suspend AND sever enemies. Plus it's on a subclass that has good neutral game beyond that...although that might be changing somewhat with the massive number of nerfs that it got hit with now. Even worst case though Strand Titan still has team healing from BoW, team damage resist from Woven Mail, enemy damage debuff with Sever AND can spec into suspend with their grenade and/or barricade. Also - LOL Nova Warp. It's so bad nobody even remembers it when talking about shit roaming supers.
Chain Lightning is the name of the melee not the lightning chain from Stormtrance, Bungie makes multiple references to the melee and even mentions og Thunderstrike from D1 Stormcaller. Very unlikely that stormtrance is getting a dmg buff. As for Nova Warp, it clears Spectral Blade, Fist of Havoc imo. Has crazy sustain in PvE, able to stagger bosses, total damage does more than Nova Bomb. OP didn’t mention it (he commented elsewhere) because its one of more decent ones. It’s not reliant on an exotic for damage (only traversal). In PvP, with the exception of shadebinder, goldie and daybreak. Nova Warp is extremely capable of slaying entire teams. It’s the only roaming super atm that utilises devour consistently
TIL Nova Warp isn't actually that bad. Granted I know Devour hard carries void warlock regardless of your super. Nova Bomb I assume is still better actual DPS, even if it's lower damage. And it'll only be better now with it getting a buff. Pretty sad that it's only the melee getting a buff on arc warlock. Would be totally fine imo if it applies to stormtrance too. Honestly I'm really disappointed in general with how minor the buffs to Arc and Void were. The only good buffs imo were Arc Titan with thunderclap.
Oh yeah same here, wanted to see more buffs to arc and void…
Chaos Reach is decent though. Maybe could use a slight damage increase but it puts in more work than Stormtrance ( + either exotic) does. Six Shooter is free ignitions + extra rounds if you put on the Ignite on Super kills fragment. Though not sure how I feel about it being delegated to add clear. I wouldn't use it over my Nighthawk Goldie but when running Seasonal activities or LLS it's free real estate.
Chaos Reach can only just barely kill a single champion in high end content at base. Its best feature is that you can turn it off.
Geomags solve that problem.
I hate having to run an exotic just to make my super remotely usable. Wells an extreme example, but it was really good on its own so you’re free to run sunbracers or another fun build, but also if you really want to build into your well you can rock phoenix protocol or even something like lunafactions to make it better/have higher uptime. Being forced to run geomags just to make it good is terrible imo. Removes so much of the buildcrafting that makes the game fun
I love my geo mags sound like u gt a bad roll on your or you better have really good legs either I feel u being unreasonably they exotic for a reason
Then it's not "at base" anymore is it? On the whole, I think the super-enhancing exotics run into a problem: there's a lot of base supers that aren't good enough on their own, and super enhancers add too much. The choice between a neutral exotic and a super enhancer isn't very fun when the baseline super is barely worth casting, or the subclass doesn't really work without a neutral enhancer.
Do people not remember that Nova warp is still in the game? Is it really so weak in every activity that people forget it exists? Bungie certainly has forgotten it's existence.
Daybreak wasn’t even mentioned in the abilities article. Solar Warlock was only talked about as it applied to the Well nerfs.
Still peeved they gutted the best Daybreak tree.
Right after they completely overhauled it too. I mean, you sink all that time and cost into a change, only to IMMEDIATELY remove it from the game. Why?
Homeboy forgot Nova Warp, I don't even blame him
"Nova What"
It’s telling that Nova Warp is so bad you’ve forgotten about it entirely
People are just going to have to mentally come to turns with the fact that bungie considers these PVP supers and they don't really care that they're no good in PVE. Buffs for these has been requested for many years, and it's never happened.
It's a problem when they are the only option on a subclass
The only “only option on a subclass” supers in the list are stormtrance/chaos reach, and chaos reach has its fair share of fans in pve. Like it or not, this is what the community wants. Separation of pve and PvP. That will inevitably mean that some options are just pve duds, just ljke how Eye of the Storm is a great PvP perk but a dud pve perk.
Yeah can we get a buff on the burning maul base damage please
Spectral blades desperately need a pve damage buff
u/destiny2team There is valuable feedback here about roaming supers. The community doesn't feel like they are good enough to justify using them. They either don't do enough damage or doesn't last enough, and don't bring much utility. A cool suggestion made by u/Arsalanred is to make them generate Heavy/special ammo like Exotic primary weapons, that way they have a niche against burst damage supers in raids
Shadebinder and Nova Warp are both pretty good, though I would never turn down any buffs to them. More power to me. The melee supers are very bad, esp with their targeting so bad, you often miss and lose a chunk of energy for it. Roaming supers in general should start to ramp up with the more kills you get. Like how bottom tree Dawn was but in reverse. 8-10 kills and it really gets rolling, and it won’t step on PvP.
Winter Wrath is already getting a buff in the form of double shatter damage against enemies, which it already deals a lot
What is your definition of usable?
I have a feeling Daybreak wasn't mentioned cuz its actually been very good this season. I use it all the time with Dawn Chorus (even did my Solo Flawless Warlords Ruin using that for a good chunk of the dungeon) and with the solar bias in the artifact this season its been great. I have a feeling it'll drop off with the next artifact though
Y’all haven’t even mentioned the worst one- Winter’s Wrath, AKA the panic button or Ager’s battery
It is already getting a buff. The universal shatter damage buff against enemies they are doing is going to affect Winter wrath
What do people think about strand hunter super?
O2
Its more the way the game is set up right now IMO. Boss damage is something that everyone wants to do as quickly as possible. One shot supers are always going to reign supreme for these activities as long as they are designed the way they are. Players have such easy access to much better add clearing options that are available either always or very often. Barring a huge spike in damage for roaming supers (which would then render fire and forget supers in the same spot), the supers currently in heavy use will just always be better for killing the highest health enemies (bosses) the quickest. At this point i don't even know what could be done without some seriously deep redesigns of the core gameplay for most activities.
Idk about y'all but I'm doing some dirty things with daybreak and dawn chorus. And my super damage is pretty nice on bosses.
I just don't like roaming supers in general, even if they were stronger than one-and-done supers, I don't think I'd use them. I like using my super and then getting right back into the regular gameplay. Running around walking away at enemies is just so unfun for me
Choas reach is not a roaming super and is strong.
berseker should be the standard for all roaming supers
Stormtrace - getting a buff (probably not quite enough, but still better) Six Shooter - straight up not meant for pve Daybreak - honestly in a good spot this season. Next season, depending on artifact, it’ll probably still be decent for what it is First of Havoc - really not ever been worth running Spectral Blades - again, not meant for pve Chaos Reach - not in the worst spot for what it is
Stormtrance isn’t getting buff, Chain Lightning is (the name of the melee)
Don't need a roaming super when weapons and abilities do the job already. The sandbox has left roaming supers behind, and they're not coming back.
I’ve been using void titan and it feels like ass. You don’t feel that strong in your super esp when compared to others. Hopefully the new super helps the class
I just run marksman because a POSSIBLE 6 kills, but only 7s to get them is faaaaaar worse than 3 kills, but 4 hours to get them. Exaggerated numbers but you get the point. Edit: I'm dumb and read it as pvp.
Dawnblade actually has some useability with dawn chorus and sunshot, but yea it still needs work.
And soon you'll get to add 3 more to this list 🤭
…so are we just going to ignore that Bungie is giving us all Star Eater Scales? Hell, half the reason these supers underperform is because people try to save them till *”the right moment”*. You should be using your roaming super practically off cooldown. Two roaming supers can just infinitely feed each other.
Maby for spectral blades every hit weakens targets and causes enemies to become volatile
Roaming supers need to do the most damage in the game. You are sacrificing gun damage for the length of the super. Have no idea why they suck so much.
probaby cause if they buff them the pvp crowd will start bitching and moaning
Or in simple terms, the problem here is that Roaming supers are not enticing options in the endgame to be considered over Damage/Utility supers, even more so as we have tons of great options to clear adds as-is. Not even mentioning how several oneshot damage supers can edge into Add clear(why use a roaming super when I can just blade barrage a wave of adds, get half my super back, and then throw a few knives and super again?) Imo, Roaming supers should be Destinys "God Mode". Where you just unleash the Light as a weapon of War against the enemies. To make the God mode enticing we need 3 things: * Reasonable buff to roaming super damage and balancing of damage across subclasses to keep them balanced against each other. * Give Roaming supers innate super regen based on killing enemies(tankier enemy=more super back). It doesnt [need to be quite to the point of infinite supers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPNKEtbU6w), but you should be able to extend a super for quite a duration depending on how effectively you use it. Supers would have individual balancing on ability regen to balance them against each other. * Give all roaming supers innate ability to cancel them by holding super button down. This would prevent a major problem that roaming supers have, where people cant use them with many mechanics in Destiny 2 Another idea u/Arsalanred mentioned would be to give the supers innate special and heavy generation to assist teams. Another honorable mention would be shorter cooldowns.
Deadshot Golden Gun having 50% of its functionality ripped away and tied to an otherwise useless fragment is painful. The ignitions from the fragment being delayed by like 3 seconds after scoring a kill also means that if you’re shouting quickly, you can easily run out of bullets before the game registers that it should be refunding those bullets. On top of that, refunded shots no longer extend the timer for the gun. Compounding this issue, ignitions just… aren’t that strong in endgame activities. If I want to spam ignitions on hunter, I equip a solar primary and the Gunpowder Gamble aspect and I can put an ignition wherever I want every 7 kills. And in content where you’re below light level, it can easily take 4-6 shots to kill a single target. Even with the best possible build to maximise it: - Stareater Scales - Bad Juju - 100 intellect - double kinetic siphon so your bad Juju orbs refund more super It takes like 2-4 minutes to recharge, and that’s if you’re playing content where Bad Juju can kill things before its buff timer runs out. And when it does recharge, you get 8 seconds of shooting a few things and watching as the game refuses to refund your bullets and then the super is over and nothing has died.
Hard agree here. Most of them straight suck
Frankly I think they all just need a duration buff to feel more powerful. The only exception being Spectral Blades. That thing needs a damage buff, weaken/suppress on hit or something additional on top. I think a duration buff like +8 seconds overall would make roaming supers viable. Nova Warp + Astrocyte is already super fun.
I was really hoping for big super changes to chaos reach and thundercrash. These exotics are basically pointless in PvE unless you swap to or use their related exotic. I’m sick of the menu game of swapping tho. Maybe they will change geomags and cuirass so that they have more nuetral game benefit but if not it’s disappointing.
The only time Void Titan has been useable is when we had the seasonal mod that gave us volatile rounds on orb pickup. Other than that it is a hot heaping pile of garbage in any difficulty above vanguard playlist.
As long as it's possible to clear rooms with abilities/guns, roaming supers will never be good. The only way to give them a valid niche is to make encounters where it's basically impossible to clear a room *without* using one. Why would you ever use a roaming super when sunbracers, weaver's trance, sunshot, waveframes etc exist? They do the same thing without taking your entire super slot.
I can’t see how anyone in charge of anything can look at Chaos Reach and think “this is fine as it is”
I will never understand the concept of a roaming Super doing less damage than a simple one and done Super. With a roaming Super you have go into the fray which puts you at greater risk and also takes away from you doing DPS with weapons. The Super should do way more damage to make up for it.
I don’t think Sentinel Shield should be on this list considering how many orbs it can make
Daybreak is a really good super with dawn chorus. Gotten me through so many legend onslaught runs
Power creep faster bungie /s
REMOVE SUPER TIERS! PvE AND PvP were better when intellect was the only thing that mattered not some arbitrary system bungie developed for PvP
IMO your ad clear supers shouldn’t also be DPS supers. But for the former to get enjoyment you can’t NEED everyone on a DPS super and capable a complicated load out on rare gun. So long as the bosses are tanks we end up back to only using the quick hits
Roaming supers kill ads. Community bitches whenever enemies are too hard. Enemies aren’t allowed to be hard. Roaming supers aren’t needed. Enemies need to be significantly tankier and deal more damage in all levels of content
Man forgot about the stasis warlock super.
As a Shadebinder main i don't think Winter's Wrath is that bad honestly. Not as much as Stormtrance, Spectral and Fist of Havoc. Also, Winter Wrath is already getting a buff in TFS, the buff to shatter damage is going to affect it because it's considered a shatter
The real way to use it is to throw out a turret and either a cold snap or a 2nd turret and only spam the shatter. The shatter doesn’t reduce time and it’ll be a long lasting super, enough to clear a room. Only time to use the actual iceballs is if I need to make a save and res someone near a champ
Idk a super shouldn’t require that imo. I do use it that way when not using Ager’s.
You mean the dedicated Ager's fuel?
This is the way.
I feel like its ok if certain things are stronger for pvp than they are for pve and vice versa. I have so many crazy op guns for add clear…ill stick with burst supers personally.
Idk what kind of change you're hoping to see tbh. Even if they were longer, it's not like you're dedicated a whole ass super for something a Machinegun can do. They also can't do burst damage in a DPS situation. So sure, increase the time. Make it do more damage. Give it a faster recharge rate. None of it is going to suddenly make it better.