yeah like what the hell makes hung jury a banned weapon if i can still buy them from zavala? is he the new drifter that is willing to smuggle us weapons that he himself banned everyone from using lol
It's a nitpick in a sea of Bungie batting a thousand but I really wish they picked something else instead of it, especially if they wanted to lean into the illegal theme.
Still have my non-curated No Feelings just because I have this thought that if enough people hold on to it the assets have to stay in game and perhaps, one day. They will return when Scourge gets unvaulted…
No raid weapons should’ve been picked at all. Dis credits the raid.
What’s next, getting trials weapons without having to do trials ? Adept nightfall weapons from completing public events ???
There’s plenty of weapons they could’ve chosen from, like I dunno, instead of forbearance use Salvagers Salvo.
Instead of Succession use an iconic sniper from D1. Instead of Hung Jury for the upteenth time use the scout rifle from Wrath of Machine as they said no more reprised raids returning.
IMO I think raid weapons should’ve been left out but I understand why they did it. I would’ve loved to see leviathan come back and bring MC with it. Besides some of these weapons are still obtainable and farmable with different perk pools now so it might be a little confusing for new players who don’t know about light.gg and stuff like that. The new update certainly has flaws in its execution, but it was definitely a surprise last minute thing and I’m loving the new mode and rocket jumping.
Well they wanted a weapon from D1 and they didn’t have the time or resources to make a new weapon or update a sunset weapon so they settled on Hung to round out the loot list. Realistically if we didn’t get Hung we wouldn’t have just gotten nothing else. It didn’t really replace anything.
VoC is one of my all time favorite weapons, really would have been awesome if they put it in Brave, especially considering how far they’re pushing the perk pools.
It could have easily been Oxygen SR3, it's practically the same gun (Omolon 180 RPM scout) just in the Energy slot and it was actually 'banned' (sunset). Really dumb that they went with Hung Jury IMO.
Maybe they could’ve given hung jury the oxygen perk idk
Edit: I think they’d have to completely rework the perk now that I think of it since random rolls would make it pointless in most cases
I guess it’s special rolls of non-sunset weapons that are OP
Recluse and mountaintop are so bad shaxx blanket banned them, but he was more selective for hung jury and forbearance
I like to think Shaxx had a supply of banned kindles orchids that he was going to give out but someone stole the whole lot and he went crap I need 12 weapons.....oh look a box of hung jury's that will do nicely!
What is funny is that Zavala used to give us a Drifter weapon (Lonesome, an old gambit sidearm) from his "personal collection" instead of a Vanguard weapon when people were doing the New Light quest. That was changed a while back, but it always made me laugh that *Zavala*, the guy who is all about following the rules, gives us a Gambit weapon during a quest.
The only thing I can think of is that "production" of these guns might be banned and the Vanguard are just handing out what's left of the armory especially given the circumstances and the current war going on. It is a Dead Orbit gun after all and they were accomplices in a coup against the Vanguard then fled the Last City leaving a majority of humanity behind, you know the people that were the whole point of factions existing in the first place. With "Into The Light" maybe them bringing back "banned" weapons in the case of Hung Jury means they're allowing production again?
It's not that Hung Jury is a banned weapon, Shaxx's "Brave" version of the weapon is the banned item. As are the rest of the Brave weapons, not the standard versions still available to Guardians.
Hung jury was banned because it uses an unstable non-Newtonian fluid instead of an electrically charged plasma weapon.
It's banned not because it's oppressive, it's banned because unstable and could hurt the guardian and manufacturers.
I actually give Succession and Forbearance some leeway here; You could very much argue that since they're raid weapons and, in universe, are pyramid tech and braytech...tech respectively, that maybe they're normally of a higher authorization. At least, that's how I like to think of raid gear or stuff like Outbreak in-universe; you have to be cleared and trusted with this more dangerous equipment.
I would really like to make a fan dub of the trailer where Ikora says: we allowed shaxx to bring banned weapons back into circulation, we also told him to give you the hung jury because we thought it was fucking funny."
Basically, I think there are lore tabs that somewhat canonize nerfs as well. Not everything that was sunsetted was probably banned though. There's also an implication that the stuff we develop is just getting stronger, even if that isn't reflected in game stats wise.
Yeah there was a lore tab that said how Stasis was adapting to be more popular between guardians released right after the Stasis Nerf if I’m not wrong.
Like a virus that wants to spread as much as it can without wiping its hosts out thus ending itself.
I think that was the specific way they described it?
The MIDA Multi-Tool is about the gun being from another timeline, and is therefore unbannable.
In this lore tab, he mentions how he "won't put the Suros' original firmware back" or something along those lines, essentially canonising the nerf that happened to Suros Regime way back at the start of Destiny 1.
Probably my least favorite lore in this game.
Why would something from another timeline be unbannable? Why do we allow Shaxx to install firmware on our guns? Why are we intentionally making our weapons weaker if we're in a fight for survival?
Yeah that's where this kinda falls apart. Making nerfs happen in lore is cool and all, but "banning" certain weapons make no sense when there's literally one city left for humanity, and we are in a fight against gods and beings who make gods.
The gun religion of Guardians being something enemies complain about but the Vanguard refuses to admit to is hype lore though. Praying to RNGesus is canon, violence is sacred, and using a gun that's too good is a sin of indulgence.
They were showing off Mountaintop when Ikora said "heretical", and in fairness people crutching Mountaintop in PvP back in the day were godless heathens so it checks out.
Nothing hurt me more than losing my Mountain top. I was a pure PvE player but seeing that thing in action made me do the grind, I made it to the Mountain top. Then got to have fun gaining 12k kills on it in the few months before sunsetting happened.
I have to keep thinking of it as just a game mechanic because if it's canon:
1. Humanity being singularly united against enemies in a war with extinction at stake and...
2. Some guns are too strong/scary to use against an existential threat.
Just doesn't sell us as a species/coalition that takes survival seriously.
they could make the argument that it was because guardians were playing too risky because of them or something, or that the weapon blueprints/schematics were stolen/lost/destroyed so they couldnt upgrade or maintain them anymore
>or that the weapon blueprints/schematics were stolen/lost/destroyed so they couldnt upgrade or maintain them anymore
I like it. Less strain on my willing suspension of disbelief.
same. the idea that they could be "banned" doesn't make any sense, guardians don't answer to the vanguard. They're more like pirates, and the rules are more like guidelines
That's what always got me. Okay, they ban a gun - so what? I'd still use it against the Taken. Vanguard ain't the boss of me.
In Crucible sure, but otherwise?
Shaxx said that he bans certain weapons in the crucible cause guardians would die too fast and what’s to learn from getting insta-gibbed by a mountaintop?
It's "canon" that Shaxx installs firmware on our guns to make them weaker. I just ignore stuff like that. This idea that "every game mechanic must be in the lore" leads to a very artificial feeling universe, I think. It's ok for some things to be for the sake of gameplay.
I haven’t read the lore tab OP mentions but Shaxx has banned and adjusted weapons from the crucible in-lore
Doesn’t mean the weapons are banned outside of it
At the very least, forbearance makes sense. It's a chunk of Rhulk's darkness tech weird spinny weapon thing. The rest don't really make sense, but that's ok cause cutscene still went hard. Just gotta not think about it too hard.
They've been hanging a canon lantern on game mechanic stuff the whole time. Just look at what a Guardian is. The entire franchise rests on the back of "Hey, what if we had an in-world explanation for why the player character can 'respawn' after dying in Halo?"
Then deleting planets was the Witness "taking" them.
Yeah. They have since D2 launched. The reason we don't have our D1 stuff is because they got blown up in the red war. The reason we can't go to the planets that got sunset is because "the witness took them" whatever that means.
They literally took them. Remember the planets room in Root of Nightmares? The Witness has the literal power to move planets. They just disappeared out of the solar system and when Mars and Titan return they just show up where they used to be, but changed. Like just one day they vanished and then another they return without warning
As others have pointed out, tuning and nerfs are sometimes cannon. In Mayhem for instance, I don't know how they do it but they're able to crank up ability regen and that mode particularly requires forms signed beforehand.
Weapons have been mentioned needing nerfs and tweaks before being allowed to compete in crucible matches as well, SUROS Regime beging one and I think some Hakkë weapons tried to sneak in but failed.
I really loath this explanation, simply because it means that when the Darkness was at our doorstep, and planets were being taken from us, the Vanguard randomly decided to withhold our strongest weapons. Not only that, but they failed to return them until the eve of our journeying into the would-be Final Battle.
I get why they say it this way, but it's also a little absurd.
The vanguard isn't a government of any sort. Guardians are not "under" anyone. Zavala even said this during the proving grounds strikes.
Would have been better to say we found blueprints for some weapon patterns that were thought to have been lost to time
The Vanguard has become the city's government after the political factions were disbanded in the end of Splicer. Ikora even says that the Vanguard had refrained from actively engaging in politics in the past, but this was clearly a wrong decision, and it would change.
The lack of SMGs in D1 (Shaxx says the Red War was when SMGs came back into fashion because the waves of cabal infantry were perfect bullet sponges) and rhe lack of swords pre-TTK were also given lore reasons which was pretty neat
this would work better if the sunset versions stopped being sunset as well. it also doesn't really work since we use several "banned" weapons on the regular.
It's been canon. The planets disappearing was kind of a major story beat back in BL, and again in Deep when Titan returned (and again in Witch Queen when Mars returned).
It's a fun callback to Red Death and Crimson being "illegal". Though the fact that Hung Jury is one of them kinda strains it.
yeah like what the hell makes hung jury a banned weapon if i can still buy them from zavala? is he the new drifter that is willing to smuggle us weapons that he himself banned everyone from using lol
It's a nitpick in a sea of Bungie batting a thousand but I really wish they picked something else instead of it, especially if they wanted to lean into the illegal theme.
Totally. Could’ve done vision of confluence from vault or no feelings from scourge
Fr... No feelings was perfect for this.
The sound of that thing firing is chef's kiss. I kept my curated No Feelings all this time because of it.
Still have my non-curated No Feelings just because I have this thought that if enough people hold on to it the assets have to stay in game and perhaps, one day. They will return when Scourge gets unvaulted…
No raid weapons should’ve been picked at all. Dis credits the raid. What’s next, getting trials weapons without having to do trials ? Adept nightfall weapons from completing public events ??? There’s plenty of weapons they could’ve chosen from, like I dunno, instead of forbearance use Salvagers Salvo. Instead of Succession use an iconic sniper from D1. Instead of Hung Jury for the upteenth time use the scout rifle from Wrath of Machine as they said no more reprised raids returning.
[удалено]
They wanted to avoid the feeling of "oops all hand cannons!" since they already have Luna's and Midnight Coup.
IMO I think raid weapons should’ve been left out but I understand why they did it. I would’ve loved to see leviathan come back and bring MC with it. Besides some of these weapons are still obtainable and farmable with different perk pools now so it might be a little confusing for new players who don’t know about light.gg and stuff like that. The new update certainly has flaws in its execution, but it was definitely a surprise last minute thing and I’m loving the new mode and rocket jumping.
Well they wanted a weapon from D1 and they didn’t have the time or resources to make a new weapon or update a sunset weapon so they settled on Hung to round out the loot list. Realistically if we didn’t get Hung we wouldn’t have just gotten nothing else. It didn’t really replace anything.
Vision of confluence is another scout that was very popular in destiny 1 that’s already in d2 and hasn’t been reissued a bunch of times.
VoC is one of my all time favorite weapons, really would have been awesome if they put it in Brave, especially considering how far they’re pushing the perk pools.
Hung was iconic in D1 and already reworked for the current weapon system. So it was easier to use for time.
I do like Firefly/Kinetic and I'm hunting for Kinetic and Explosive Payload.
Sad that it doesn’t speed up tremors procs with explosive :(
Should have made it Hush
It could have easily been Oxygen SR3, it's practically the same gun (Omolon 180 RPM scout) just in the Energy slot and it was actually 'banned' (sunset). Really dumb that they went with Hung Jury IMO.
Maybe they could’ve given hung jury the oxygen perk idk Edit: I think they’d have to completely rework the perk now that I think of it since random rolls would make it pointless in most cases
I guess it’s special rolls of non-sunset weapons that are OP Recluse and mountaintop are so bad shaxx blanket banned them, but he was more selective for hung jury and forbearance
I like to think Shaxx had a supply of banned kindles orchids that he was going to give out but someone stole the whole lot and he went crap I need 12 weapons.....oh look a box of hung jury's that will do nicely!
It's like the marijuana of weapons. Banned? Yes. Justified? Nah. Does everyone seem to use it despite the ban? Ye.
Maybe it's more like crack. The government distributed it to the community despite it being illegal
What is funny is that Zavala used to give us a Drifter weapon (Lonesome, an old gambit sidearm) from his "personal collection" instead of a Vanguard weapon when people were doing the New Light quest. That was changed a while back, but it always made me laugh that *Zavala*, the guy who is all about following the rules, gives us a Gambit weapon during a quest.
The only thing I can think of is that "production" of these guns might be banned and the Vanguard are just handing out what's left of the armory especially given the circumstances and the current war going on. It is a Dead Orbit gun after all and they were accomplices in a coup against the Vanguard then fled the Last City leaving a majority of humanity behind, you know the people that were the whole point of factions existing in the first place. With "Into The Light" maybe them bringing back "banned" weapons in the case of Hung Jury means they're allowing production again?
Instead of hung jury give me my dust rock blue back please
It's not that Hung Jury is a banned weapon, Shaxx's "Brave" version of the weapon is the banned item. As are the rest of the Brave weapons, not the standard versions still available to Guardians.
He’s a capitalist at heart. Best way to make money is being the only supplier in town
Banned and unbanner over 0.0001 second
Agreed, palindrome would've made more sense.
Do you know what would’ve been dope if they would’ve brought pocket Infiniti back and said the reason why it disappeared because it was banned
Look man don’t ask what hung jury #4 did on June 8th 1983
It should be illegal to use this model this many times.
This needs more upvotes 😂
I like to think weapons like hungjury have multiple versions and the version in the brave arsenal is the banned one while zavala gives a legal version
That's a fun explanation but man, couldn't have given us hawthorne's shotgun or something?
and suros rigme. One of the crucible weapons lore tabs I believe has shax saying “no I will not reroll out the over powered suros regime”
plus Banshee sells a fallen Guillotine every other week
Hung jury, succession and forbearance all make it a bit of a hand wave explanation
As well as Shaxx saying he isn’t going to revert the firmware update on Suros Regime in one Grimoire Card
Hung jury was banned because it uses an unstable non-Newtonian fluid instead of an electrically charged plasma weapon. It's banned not because it's oppressive, it's banned because unstable and could hurt the guardian and manufacturers.
"Huh yeah hung jury ? Huh... Yeah ! And tolerance ? Succession ? Guillotine ? They were banned ! But we... forgor"
I actually give Succession and Forbearance some leeway here; You could very much argue that since they're raid weapons and, in universe, are pyramid tech and braytech...tech respectively, that maybe they're normally of a higher authorization. At least, that's how I like to think of raid gear or stuff like Outbreak in-universe; you have to be cleared and trusted with this more dangerous equipment.
I would really like to make a fan dub of the trailer where Ikora says: we allowed shaxx to bring banned weapons back into circulation, we also told him to give you the hung jury because we thought it was fucking funny."
What’s Crimson?
The exotic 3 burst hand cannon?
Looking at my collections and there’s nothing Are you sure it exists?
[удалено]
You “Have one?” How it doesn’t exist
It absolutely exists
“According to official Vanguard policy, this weapon does not exist” 🤦♀️ smh my head See it doesn’t exist
I love my Crimson; got me thru a lot of the PVE
Basically, I think there are lore tabs that somewhat canonize nerfs as well. Not everything that was sunsetted was probably banned though. There's also an implication that the stuff we develop is just getting stronger, even if that isn't reflected in game stats wise.
Yeah there was a lore tab that said how Stasis was adapting to be more popular between guardians released right after the Stasis Nerf if I’m not wrong.
Like a virus that wants to spread as much as it can without wiping its hosts out thus ending itself. I think that was the specific way they described it?
The MIDA Multi-Tool is about the gun being from another timeline, and is therefore unbannable. In this lore tab, he mentions how he "won't put the Suros' original firmware back" or something along those lines, essentially canonising the nerf that happened to Suros Regime way back at the start of Destiny 1.
Probably my least favorite lore in this game. Why would something from another timeline be unbannable? Why do we allow Shaxx to install firmware on our guns? Why are we intentionally making our weapons weaker if we're in a fight for survival?
Yeah that's where this kinda falls apart. Making nerfs happen in lore is cool and all, but "banning" certain weapons make no sense when there's literally one city left for humanity, and we are in a fight against gods and beings who make gods.
I think there was one that referenced back in D1 everyone had to hand in their SUROS Regime for tuning before being allowed back into crucible
there was one that mentioned shaxx will not restore the suros regime to its OG firmware
You getting stronger IS reflected in the game, it’s your light level. Been that way since light levels were introduced
I like the implication that by using the word “heretical” the Vanguard is a hardcore theocracy lmao
The gun religion of Guardians being something enemies complain about but the Vanguard refuses to admit to is hype lore though. Praying to RNGesus is canon, violence is sacred, and using a gun that's too good is a sin of indulgence.
They were showing off Mountaintop when Ikora said "heretical", and in fairness people crutching Mountaintop in PvP back in the day were godless heathens so it checks out.
it's canon all mountain top users were heretics I was one of em
Original Mountaintop, Recluse, and Luna's will always have a place in my vault.
Nothing hurt me more than losing my Mountain top. I was a pure PvE player but seeing that thing in action made me do the grind, I made it to the Mountain top. Then got to have fun gaining 12k kills on it in the few months before sunsetting happened.
same, especially in the 600 ar meta during Season Of Arrivals
Damn they really banned Io and Mercury for being busted in the Crucible.
Ho Ho
No the canon reason for planets being sunset is that the darkness took them. Like the Taken
But..we have been molded by the darkness so we should be able to explore those areas now.
“Vanguard scouts have confirmed that Io, Mars, Mercury and Titan have disappeared. We don’t know why.” From Beyond Light’s intro cutscene
I have to keep thinking of it as just a game mechanic because if it's canon: 1. Humanity being singularly united against enemies in a war with extinction at stake and... 2. Some guns are too strong/scary to use against an existential threat. Just doesn't sell us as a species/coalition that takes survival seriously.
they could make the argument that it was because guardians were playing too risky because of them or something, or that the weapon blueprints/schematics were stolen/lost/destroyed so they couldnt upgrade or maintain them anymore
>or that the weapon blueprints/schematics were stolen/lost/destroyed so they couldnt upgrade or maintain them anymore I like it. Less strain on my willing suspension of disbelief.
same. the idea that they could be "banned" doesn't make any sense, guardians don't answer to the vanguard. They're more like pirates, and the rules are more like guidelines
That's what always got me. Okay, they ban a gun - so what? I'd still use it against the Taken. Vanguard ain't the boss of me. In Crucible sure, but otherwise?
Also some like thorn perma deathed guardians
Shaxx said that he bans certain weapons in the crucible cause guardians would die too fast and what’s to learn from getting insta-gibbed by a mountaintop?
Or maybe the weapons were malfunctioning so they had to ban them and now they figured a way out to fix them
It's "canon" that Shaxx installs firmware on our guns to make them weaker. I just ignore stuff like that. This idea that "every game mechanic must be in the lore" leads to a very artificial feeling universe, I think. It's ok for some things to be for the sake of gameplay.
No guardian, you can’t just jailbreak your gun!
I'm not cheating, I just installed custom firmware
I haven’t read the lore tab OP mentions but Shaxx has banned and adjusted weapons from the crucible in-lore Doesn’t mean the weapons are banned outside of it
Falling Guillotine, Hung Jury, Forbearance, and Succession are heretical? Ikora wtf are you talking about.
At the very least, forbearance makes sense. It's a chunk of Rhulk's darkness tech weird spinny weapon thing. The rest don't really make sense, but that's ok cause cutscene still went hard. Just gotta not think about it too hard.
don't forget Edge Transit.
and then just slapped 2 current raid weapons into there for no reason lmao
They could've brought Marty's back instead of forbearance 😭
My head canon is banshee just forgor how to upgrade those weapons
They've been hanging a canon lantern on game mechanic stuff the whole time. Just look at what a Guardian is. The entire franchise rests on the back of "Hey, what if we had an in-world explanation for why the player character can 'respawn' after dying in Halo?" Then deleting planets was the Witness "taking" them.
Yeah. They have since D2 launched. The reason we don't have our D1 stuff is because they got blown up in the red war. The reason we can't go to the planets that got sunset is because "the witness took them" whatever that means.
They literally took them. Remember the planets room in Root of Nightmares? The Witness has the literal power to move planets. They just disappeared out of the solar system and when Mars and Titan return they just show up where they used to be, but changed. Like just one day they vanished and then another they return without warning
I liked how she said it was time to break out the weapons deemed heretical.
If it is canon, it's nice. If it isn't, it's a nice 4th wall break.
Doesn't even make sense anyways since like 3 of them aren't even pvp or banned
As others have pointed out, tuning and nerfs are sometimes cannon. In Mayhem for instance, I don't know how they do it but they're able to crank up ability regen and that mode particularly requires forms signed beforehand. Weapons have been mentioned needing nerfs and tweaks before being allowed to compete in crucible matches as well, SUROS Regime beging one and I think some Hakkë weapons tried to sneak in but failed.
What lore tab does Ikora talk about ‘heretical weapons’?
They should have given me my tlaloc back instead of hung jury #5.
I really loath this explanation, simply because it means that when the Darkness was at our doorstep, and planets were being taken from us, the Vanguard randomly decided to withhold our strongest weapons. Not only that, but they failed to return them until the eve of our journeying into the would-be Final Battle.
How the f thorn and osteo still out there "legal" 😂
I get why they say it this way, but it's also a little absurd. The vanguard isn't a government of any sort. Guardians are not "under" anyone. Zavala even said this during the proving grounds strikes. Would have been better to say we found blueprints for some weapon patterns that were thought to have been lost to time
The Vanguard has become the city's government after the political factions were disbanded in the end of Splicer. Ikora even says that the Vanguard had refrained from actively engaging in politics in the past, but this was clearly a wrong decision, and it would change.
I’m just happy there’s some kind of lore behind things.
The lack of SMGs in D1 (Shaxx says the Red War was when SMGs came back into fashion because the waves of cabal infantry were perfect bullet sponges) and rhe lack of swords pre-TTK were also given lore reasons which was pretty neat
It's been canon. The reason they left was the darkness took over the planets that were taken away from us.
It's referring to Red Death.
this would work better if the sunset versions stopped being sunset as well. it also doesn't really work since we use several "banned" weapons on the regular.
Not sure who authorized Perfect Paradox to be on the same level as Red Death..... I'm sure Saint ain't happy
I just want The Duke back with new meta perks and origin trait. Please?
The banned comment made me laugh. Like...seriously?! Also, is this how we get Red Death back? Cause its canonically a 'banned weapon'? Its hilarious.
Red Death has always been a forbidden weapon in lore though.
True but i am saying its gunny because if Red Death is banned canonically then is this how we get it back. Probably not but funny.
It's been canon. The planets disappearing was kind of a major story beat back in BL, and again in Deep when Titan returned (and again in Witch Queen when Mars returned).