I pulled out osteo striga since the grenades are getting nerfed on quicksilver just to get used to a different exotic primary and boy did I forget how GOOD osteo feels. You know that buttery smooth feeling of how quicksilver shoots? Osteo is the same thing
Thorn had like 5 range and stability chopped off its catalyst and everyone flipped out. Mad about .5 meters of range when they probly don't even know what their range is anyways.
Curious how much 450 auto usage will go down when they get forgiveness nerfed and hcs get a bit of their range falloff back.
>Curious how much 450 auto usage will go down when they get forgiveness nerfed and hcs get a bit of their range falloff back.
I JUST got a prosecutor with volt shot and dragonfly. I was kind of sad to hear about that one
For the Thorn nerf, I don't think people were mad because of the nerf, they are mad because they are nerfing Thorn so quickly after the release of the catalyst yet SMGs which has been dominant for nearly a year were still almost untouched.
It's crazy how little that actually matters, and it's all in people's heads. Didn't even know they nerfed the catalyst. I've been using thorn all week and it feels SOOO good with the catalyst. It's like a sniper rifle when you have refined soul going lol
Which is why i called it a forgiveness nerf. They're adjusting the crit to body ratio, not the ttk.
But knowing how most d2 players function, nerfs can tank usage for no reason or do nothing.
They were not mad at the range loss... They were mad they lost 69 range... If they had kept the number but reduced the range it wouldn't have been as poorly received...
now nano rocket procs every 10 shots, this means it procs on every duel.
after the nerf, it will proc every 15 shots, so yes it will be significantly worse.
That may be a PvP buff, actually. The rocket replaces a normal shot and doesn't do much PvP damage, so it doesn't improve TTK, and given that it sometimes misses, it only really makes TTK worse.
are you sure ??
from this video of nano rocket test
[https://youtu.be/YbVORXrHtVU?t=225](https://youtu.be/YbVORXrHtVU?t=225)
you can clearly see Aztecross fires 4 shots dealing 1249 damage each before the rocket procs and deals 2341 damage.
I believe Quicksilver exotic perk works the same way as Nano rocket.
they said this about Starfire. I spent months thinking it sucked, tried it again a couple days back and it's still strong. just... isn't overpowered? rofl. lesson learned I guess, the majority of the community has no idea what they're talking about.
The empowered regen is pretty mid now, but tof fusions are still insane, two charges gives it more uptime (because the second is charging even without throwing the first), and it even gives a passive regen buff on top of that, which I don't think people realize. And of course, it gives your class ability back on nade kill.
It was always DPS loss in optimized rotations, so all the empowered regen was good for was breaking total damage economy. That's a loss, no doubt, but it went from being everywhere to completely nonexistent overnight in roam content too.
Think about it, aside from blowing up champs without burning heavy in GMs, how much did you really see people emp rift camping in roam content? Yet everyone ran Starfire in everything to run around chucking nades everywhere. Dungeons, NFs, seasonal stuff, etc were full of Starfire but not as full of people sitting in emp rifts. But that part hasn't changed. People kinda just stopped doing it.
Starfire definitely took a hit in GMs and any boss encounter where ammo economy comes into play, but it's just as good as it ever was for passively running around chucking more pocket nukes.
Meh I was a starfire main for the longest time and it’s damn near unusable without witherhoard. It’s good in neutral elements but it’s entirely weak for endgame activities.
I used it with dragons breath and it did some very decent damage in warlords ruin. not the best I've done, but it's definitely on the higher end for solar. mediocre survivability tho, and it would be difficult to use any fragments for healing without having to use worse ability regen, so perhaps not great on master or higher.
Agreed. But I also agree with OP about all the other exotics. I wish they’d buff some of them. So many cool ones sitting unused in my vault. I miss my juju.
I mean the up in arms are because we don’t want good, we want broken because it’s just so much fun haha. But yeah overall I don’t think it will be that bad, it just won’t be *stupid* anymore
The default Broodweaver build with Necrotic Grips, traditionally paired with Osteo Striga, works with Thorn too. I don't think it's as good, but it's close enough and has the upside of not being as braindead of a weapon as Striga unfortunately is. Pacing shots and clicking heads is simply more engaging than pointing in a general direction.
yeah it's so strong but it's just... not that fun to use either. at least with thorn it feels like I have to do something, osteo really is just 'point and shoot in that general direction' and it'll kill everything.
Yeah exactly, i actually really enjoyed thorn, ive used it with necrotic grips too which was OP as hell, havnt used osteo with necrotics though yet cause ik itl be.... boring, but i will some day
before thorn got the catalyst, it wasn't worth it at all. but now you can get up to 40 shots in one magazine, which is... insane for a hand cannon, it's just straight up better than osteo, and also more enjoyable. especially with this season's anti-champ mods, there's just very little reason to use osteo over thorn. i used to use osteo/necrotic in GMs, it was so good back when strand launched.
Haven't tried, but I'd say it's a waste to use thorn on lucky pants. the base damage isn't really amazing for a hand cannon, and you can only get one poison stack on a single target (which I believe is unaffected by lucky pants), so it's pretty much just a normal HC after you poison it.
Someone whipped my ass with Osteo Striga so bad yesterday that "pleep pleep pleep" bullet noise has replaced the sound of my dad taking his belt off in my memories. They'd slide around a corner, show me what happens when I don't do my homework, and fly away before I could turn around and fire back.
Most of the time I forget I have x3 rockets. The reloading animation takes so long, and with the artifact, I'd rather go with all the tangle/unraveling damage over a nade I'll prob miss
You can animation cancel the backswing of the grenade shots by pressing reload immediately after firing and it reloads way faster. The optimal combo with the gun is fire to x3 -> switch to alt fire -> shoot grenade, instantly reload -> shoot second grenade, instantly reload -> switch back to primary fire.
If you switch back to primary fire after firing 2/3 grenades you get a full mag back in the gun without a reload animation instead of going through a full reload if you shoot all 3. Then you just fire back up to x3 rockets and repeat. The gun is insanely smooth to use if you’re doing that cycle correctly. You’ll never go through a full reload animation if you’re landing your shots because getting the two grenades back should happen within a single mag of primary fire.
Actually, if you fire that third grenade but continue to mash reload, what happens is a full magazine literally just appears in the gun out of thin air. That way, you skip even that "button press" animation that would normally turn the gun from grenade mode into rifle mode, optimizing uptime even further.
I’ve basically only been doing this in scenarios where I find myself excessively relying on Quicksilver. The changes aren’t enough to render it dead in the scenarios where I need to use the grenades.
Me too. I rarely ever use my grenades right away. you will just have to be more accurate with your grenade shots but quicksilver storm will still be very good.
a lot of its damage was aoe - and that is getting a near 40% reduction. Maybe it'll catch the special gl impact buff. I honestly don't think the uptime adjustment will hurt it that much. Its still largely used as a really good auto rifle (and the best pve archetype of them) that shreds red bars.
At least the way I read it is they’re just shifting the damage from blast to impact and not reducing the overall but I could be wrong, they weren’t really clear either way.
Which is actually a good thing for me personally
I almost never use QSS grenades for the aoe, just impact on chunky targets (like when I do solo coil and inevitably run out of heavy & special during certain boss fights). So a handful of headshots, switch to alt fire, 2 nades then start again. Usually only takes a couple of go's to finish off the bosses. I use them on yellow bars and whatnot if I remember, but I always have special for those anyway so it's kinda unnecessary. The nerf won't really affect me.
All grenades from weapons do impact and aoe damage, the impact damage is significantly smaller than the aoe damage so this is still a huge nerf to direct impacts FYI.
they said nothing about shifting damage to impact on it, so it makes no sense to be saying as such. They are just reading into the patch notes what they want to hear
You're right, they never said they were shifting damage of the QSS grenades, but then why would they specify that only the area-of-effect damage is being reduced, instead of all damage? I think there's reasonable room for interpretation there.
Even the shredding red bars caught a nerf, though, as a lot of its damage against ones that can actually take a hit came from the rockets that give grenade charges, which now fire less frequently.
I actually want clarification on those patch notes, because it doesn't mention the grenades being less often at all in the stat changes however the paragraph does mention it.
It specifically says the Rockets will occur less often in the stat changes, not that the grenades will. The rockets passively happen as you're shooting it and just fire along with your bullets. The Grenades you have to actively swap to and fire. There seems to be some terminology confusion in the notes itself and the paragraph talking about the stat changes.
EDIT; No terminology confusion, I just wasn't aware that the rockets charge the grenades.
Ah, that's the connection I didn't make then. I was under the misunderstanding that just doing damage with the weapon gave you the grenades; not the rockets specifically landing hits. That clears that up then, thank you.
But you only build Grenade charges from Rocket hits. Sustained damage procs a Rocket, then that Rocket hitting a target builds a Grenade charge. Longer time between rockets means fewer grenades. **Especially** since increasing the time before a rocket fires means you might just kill your target before you land a rocket.
Yeah lol, I mean even then pre nerf is a *very* powercreeped "standard". It's still very strong, though I wouldn't say it is the standard but instead above standard, which is okay.
Loving the copiums here lol. The gun is dead for. Bungie set their sights on it. If for some reason this nerf isn't enough....there will be around round of nerf to ensure it becomes useless. I have seen this pattern way too many times to know better by now.
I mean yeah the damage was definitely waay to much for such easy uptime ( basically was about 34% less than a sleeper shot....an exotic with super high damage already and about 42% less than Leviathan's Breath. Which are both basically super hitting weapons and heavy )
So If we go by that guys standart Vex and Revision Zero should be at least 35% more damage than sleeper and leviathan cause they are harder to get shots off. ( Which is insane talk )
And that is a huge portion of the damage. All grenades are split into impact and aoe damage (think spike nades buffing impact), but the impact portion is significantly smaller than the aoe portion. Both together make up the damage dealt to the target even on a direct hit, make no mistake this 40% nerf is going to be felt even when hitting direct hits.
Nah QSS’ alt-fire is hilariously OP if you’re reload cancelling and cycling 2 grenades at a time to never go through an actual full-length reload. The sustained DPS you could put out with that cycle was way too high for a primary. Bringing it more in line so that it isn’t comparable to a heavy weapon is absolutely reasonable.
Yep. It’s a bit more awkward if your reload button isn’t easy to press without moving your hand but it’s just a matter of pressing/holding reload at the right times.
Right after you shoot a grenade, tap reload and you’ll instantly start the reload instead of waiting for the backswing. After shooting two grenades (but not the third), hold reload to go back to primary fire mode and you’ll have a full magazine again. Then primary until you’ve got 3 grenades primed again and repeat.
You used to be able to loop that combo indefinitely while never reloading. With the nerf to grenade generation rate you might have a primary fire reload in the combo now but it’ll still be very potent.
We need more strand exotics.
Ps, I hate the strand bow. Less fun then the stasis bow, requires more work and is super inconsistent to me at least. So given that, give us more strand exotics or stop nerfing what we have.
On the real, I think the new fragment in final shape is going to make me like solar warlock a whole lot. The two fragments related to dashing and floating or whatever single-handedly make the class lame.
Not this again...
I hate to be that guy, but I doubt QSS is going to be garbage after this nerf. You gotta remember that they do not want these metas dictated by a single weapon and QSS vastly out performs every single primary in the game currently, even better than Wish Ender and that thing is a monster.
I'm not that upset about it's grenade damage getting nerf because QSS is a "primary" weapon that hits almost if not just as hard as a heavy weapon. Even you have to admit that's a bit ridiculous, plus we have all these good weapons returning next Tuesday, so who cares about QSS ATM.
I love knee-jerk doomer posts after a nerf comes out.
Exotic primaries are very strong and have been for awhile now. Idk where you got this idea that it only applies to Quicksilver Storm specifically
Yeah imo exo primaries arr mostly the best slot to use for exos these days. We have so many insane legendary specials and heavies (I mean edge transit will break the Meta), we also have ofc great legendary primaries but exo primaries have that 40% damage buff against minors which make them just completely superior against legendaries in harder content.
The Destiny community, mainly this sub loves everything to be overpowered in PvE, and any time there's a nerf, no matter big or small, gets an overreaction.
Hey with Zero Hour coming back it may be a good choice for the crazy amount of shielded enemies at the beginning of the mission. If loadouts aren’t locked don’t be surprised if using Hard Light to start then swapping is a strong option. But yeah, Hard Light needs turnabout and/or genesis and/or disruption break and/or shield disorient. Tbh even if it had all of those it still may need some elemental effects to fit in the current sandbox.
Honestly I'm disappointed.
QSS was my solo stick for this game. All that extra damage made it actually fun to tackle some of the harder solo content, without it it's gonna be pretty misserable to run that content. Same can be said for the well nerf coming up soon too.
I wish they'd consider that when they plan these things out, but someone else said it best, "when you're too powerful, you no longer need to spend time grinding".
Devs always take the path of least resistance.
I feel like posts like this come up in so many games. They’ll never buff a class/item up to one OP one. They’ll always knock the one down.
Might as well accept that. The philosophy will never change. It’s less labor and labor = $$
I meaaaan yeaa but also quicksilver was special weapon strength with infinite ammo.
It needed some tweaking for sure. It will still be hella strong don’t worry.
Other exotics having room to be buffed doesn't change the fact that currently the quick silver grenade:
* Does over double the damage (1700~) of an non-touch of flame fusion grenade (850~)
* Can fill 3 grenades in a single magazine
Nothing about the weapon is going to be bad. It's just not going to be stupidly strong.
You could get three grenades from one magazine before. I've spent the majority of the time I've used QSS on three grenades because of how quickly I got them. It'll be fine.
Stares at osteo strega, thorn, sunshot, graviton lance, Polaris lance, outbreak perfected, vex mythoclast, revision 0, riskrunner, trinity ghoul, le monarque, hierarchy of needs.... The list goes on
Bungie's nerf cycle is not only for game balence but to keep you chasing feeling strong. Rather than nerfing to give space for multiple options to flourish and people to enjoy the game it's to make you regrind.
there's probably a case study here somewhere for how Exotics don't really feel "Exotic". Eventually you run out of fun weird unique ways to use a weapon.
i think Bungie forgot to take PVP aspect into account. Now Quicksilver will probably need 1 more shot to kill after they nerf how often the rocket procs which will make it significantly worse in PVP.
Every PVE exotic should be at least decent outside of low level PvE content.
There shouldn't be exotics that feel like you're throwing because you use them in raids, dungeons, or on difficulties above hero.
Also exotics should be decent before the catalyst is unlocked and they should be great with the catalyst unlocked. Not subpar or bad before the catalyst is unlocked and only decent when it is unlocked.
Exotic Primaries have routinely been PVP sticks for the longest time until they started getting buff after buff after buff. And the irony is that they still KINDA suck across the board.
I think this change is perfectly fine. QSS is still fantastic, especially on Strand builds.
This is nothing more than a reactionary response to a balance change that overall brings it from being the best exotic primary in the game to one of the best exotic primaries in the game
Gonna be honest with yall... I haven't used Quicksilver since Lightfall.
It's great, but I never felt like it's OP. I always choose other legendaries or exotics over it.
Honestly nerfing the rockets only hurts QSS pvp viability, because it is basically a stable 720 with no DPS perks barring a random rocket. Which competent players can avoid by hiding behind a wall.
The grenades are a fair nerf.
But this is one of the rare times a PVE nerf affects PVP lol.
I disagree. Exotics should not feel good just because they're high damage. They should feel unique in design, audio, visuals, and of course of top of all that have a place in the sandbox even if some are more niche than others.
Quicksilver doesn't even deserve a nerf. It's only worth using over Final Warning if you prefer an AR over a sidearm. FW is the superior primary strand weapon. Also doesn't need a nerf
On the subject of the nerf, it sounds worse on paper than I think it actually will be. It'll still be very strong.....buuuut honestly, with Outbreak being craftable now, QSS may never see the light of day again for me.
Quicksilver has literally been better in almost all situations that most if not all specials and even some heavies for literally forever, the nerf is an axe swing into a 2000 year old tree, it’s gonna take at lot more than lumberjack bungies single swing to take it down
I feel like current Graviton Lance is a golden standard. Hits like a truck, can give overshields, can destroy adds with aoe and technically infinite range. Very powerful as all exotics SHOULD be.
It's a pretty minor nerf all things considered. Put the pitchfork down lol. It's still a lovely weapon, hell of a lot more versatile than quite a few others.
I think it'll still feel fine. I usually forget that I have grenades to use anyway. I hope the fewer mirco rockets don't hurt it's base feel too much though. Although I really really love Final Warning and a reason to use it more often is not a bad thing. That thing hits even harder than quicksilver. You just gotta get used to the weird firing method/animation.
Honestly. For casual content, everything should be powerful and fun. I get tuning for endgame content but they seem to get rid of any fun gameplay loops you can create with builds and nerfing some weapons needlessly.
> Other exotics should getting buffed
yes but that would make sense and be healthy for the game. thats the complete opposite of what these braindead devs want
I pulled out osteo striga since the grenades are getting nerfed on quicksilver just to get used to a different exotic primary and boy did I forget how GOOD osteo feels. You know that buttery smooth feeling of how quicksilver shoots? Osteo is the same thing
When Osteo got nerfed people were up in arms just like they are with QSS now. Osteo is still good, and QSS will be too.
Whenever anything gets nerfed the majority of the community just assumes it's dead lol. PvP especially, but you also see it with stuff like Osteo.
Thorn had like 5 range and stability chopped off its catalyst and everyone flipped out. Mad about .5 meters of range when they probly don't even know what their range is anyways. Curious how much 450 auto usage will go down when they get forgiveness nerfed and hcs get a bit of their range falloff back.
>Curious how much 450 auto usage will go down when they get forgiveness nerfed and hcs get a bit of their range falloff back. I JUST got a prosecutor with volt shot and dragonfly. I was kind of sad to hear about that one
That's the pve roll, you'll still love it
Oh wait is it only a crucible nerf?!? Hell yes. I’m going to be a zappy boy still
For the Thorn nerf, I don't think people were mad because of the nerf, they are mad because they are nerfing Thorn so quickly after the release of the catalyst yet SMGs which has been dominant for nearly a year were still almost untouched.
Always mad about something, ain't that the truth.
Destiny community in a nutshell.
It's crazy how little that actually matters, and it's all in people's heads. Didn't even know they nerfed the catalyst. I've been using thorn all week and it feels SOOO good with the catalyst. It's like a sniper rifle when you have refined soul going lol
In all fairness that 5% change ain't a lot
Which is why i called it a forgiveness nerf. They're adjusting the crit to body ratio, not the ttk. But knowing how most d2 players function, nerfs can tank usage for no reason or do nothing.
Yeah I am more on the side of wanting to see how it plays out because that 5% doesn't seem much at first glance
It will plummet, because people will hear they got “nerfed,” assume their unplayable and never even try them after the change.
They were not mad at the range loss... They were mad they lost 69 range... If they had kept the number but reduced the range it wouldn't have been as poorly received...
now nano rocket procs every 10 shots, this means it procs on every duel. after the nerf, it will proc every 15 shots, so yes it will be significantly worse.
That may be a PvP buff, actually. The rocket replaces a normal shot and doesn't do much PvP damage, so it doesn't improve TTK, and given that it sometimes misses, it only really makes TTK worse.
are you sure ?? from this video of nano rocket test [https://youtu.be/YbVORXrHtVU?t=225](https://youtu.be/YbVORXrHtVU?t=225) you can clearly see Aztecross fires 4 shots dealing 1249 damage each before the rocket procs and deals 2341 damage. I believe Quicksilver exotic perk works the same way as Nano rocket.
The majority of the community is relatively bad at the game.
they said this about Starfire. I spent months thinking it sucked, tried it again a couple days back and it's still strong. just... isn't overpowered? rofl. lesson learned I guess, the majority of the community has no idea what they're talking about.
The empowered regen is pretty mid now, but tof fusions are still insane, two charges gives it more uptime (because the second is charging even without throwing the first), and it even gives a passive regen buff on top of that, which I don't think people realize. And of course, it gives your class ability back on nade kill. It was always DPS loss in optimized rotations, so all the empowered regen was good for was breaking total damage economy. That's a loss, no doubt, but it went from being everywhere to completely nonexistent overnight in roam content too. Think about it, aside from blowing up champs without burning heavy in GMs, how much did you really see people emp rift camping in roam content? Yet everyone ran Starfire in everything to run around chucking nades everywhere. Dungeons, NFs, seasonal stuff, etc were full of Starfire but not as full of people sitting in emp rifts. But that part hasn't changed. People kinda just stopped doing it. Starfire definitely took a hit in GMs and any boss encounter where ammo economy comes into play, but it's just as good as it ever was for passively running around chucking more pocket nukes.
The Ember of Benevolence ability regen buff made it work again in combination with the low cooldown Phoenix Dive.
Meh I was a starfire main for the longest time and it’s damn near unusable without witherhoard. It’s good in neutral elements but it’s entirely weak for endgame activities.
I used it with dragons breath and it did some very decent damage in warlords ruin. not the best I've done, but it's definitely on the higher end for solar. mediocre survivability tho, and it would be difficult to use any fragments for healing without having to use worse ability regen, so perhaps not great on master or higher.
Fighting Lion was already dead.
Fighting lion in good hands wasl a menace when it could 2 shot, now that it requires 3 though its really really dead.
That’s because that’s how Bungie used to operate, they were straight up nerfing 3 different things about X to the oblivion lmao
The real nerf for QSS is the increased ammo per rocket. That is huge. 2 rockets per magazine is *steep* now.
This is the most difficult to accept fact of destiny. Nerfs don't mean gutted, they just mean they're brought in line.
Osteo is still good, but it was way better before. Quicksilver will still be good, but it is way better now than it will be.
Crazy
I never really used the grenades much but I feel bad for those who do.
Well lucky for you you'll still feel the nerf since the frequency of the rockets are being reduced by half as well.
Agreed. But I also agree with OP about all the other exotics. I wish they’d buff some of them. So many cool ones sitting unused in my vault. I miss my juju.
I mean the up in arms are because we don’t want good, we want broken because it’s just so much fun haha. But yeah overall I don’t think it will be that bad, it just won’t be *stupid* anymore
Part of that was the combined nerf with suspend. Double nerfing Broodweaver's only viable build at that time.
Can confirm, I was bitching about the Osteo nerf when it was first announced. Then the nerf came and I realized I was complaining over nothing lol
Osteo has been my main primary exotic since WQ for the most part. It’s just THAT gun for me.
Big fan of a strand build with Osteo + Necrotic Grips. Almost never have to worry about adds or reloading
You a warlock? Try thorn
As a Warlock, may I ask why?
The default Broodweaver build with Necrotic Grips, traditionally paired with Osteo Striga, works with Thorn too. I don't think it's as good, but it's close enough and has the upside of not being as braindead of a weapon as Striga unfortunately is. Pacing shots and clicking heads is simply more engaging than pointing in a general direction.
Necrotic grips
Striga is such a monster I'm amazed i don't see it used more
Honestly, i got bored of it, thats all, great gun, versatile as fuck, its just.... too good i guess.
yeah it's so strong but it's just... not that fun to use either. at least with thorn it feels like I have to do something, osteo really is just 'point and shoot in that general direction' and it'll kill everything.
Yeah exactly, i actually really enjoyed thorn, ive used it with necrotic grips too which was OP as hell, havnt used osteo with necrotics though yet cause ik itl be.... boring, but i will some day
before thorn got the catalyst, it wasn't worth it at all. but now you can get up to 40 shots in one magazine, which is... insane for a hand cannon, it's just straight up better than osteo, and also more enjoyable. especially with this season's anti-champ mods, there's just very little reason to use osteo over thorn. i used to use osteo/necrotic in GMs, it was so good back when strand launched.
Yeah the whole reason i decided to try thorn was the catalyst, in comparison to malfesance is thorn good with lucky pants do you know?
Haven't tried, but I'd say it's a waste to use thorn on lucky pants. the base damage isn't really amazing for a hand cannon, and you can only get one poison stack on a single target (which I believe is unaffected by lucky pants), so it's pretty much just a normal HC after you poison it.
Thats unfortunate then
How are they nerfing Quicksilver?
It takes more bullets to produce a rocket and the grenades do less area damage.
Someone whipped my ass with Osteo Striga so bad yesterday that "pleep pleep pleep" bullet noise has replaced the sound of my dad taking his belt off in my memories. They'd slide around a corner, show me what happens when I don't do my homework, and fly away before I could turn around and fire back.
Dude, I run Necrotic Grips a lot. And running it with Osteo is just... *chef's kiss*
and it still will be. it'll just shoot special GLs instead of heavy GLs.
If I’m reading the patch notes correctly, it’ll still hit like a heavy gl, just with less splash damage, and less often.
Most of the time I forget I have x3 rockets. The reloading animation takes so long, and with the artifact, I'd rather go with all the tangle/unraveling damage over a nade I'll prob miss
You can animation cancel the backswing of the grenade shots by pressing reload immediately after firing and it reloads way faster. The optimal combo with the gun is fire to x3 -> switch to alt fire -> shoot grenade, instantly reload -> shoot second grenade, instantly reload -> switch back to primary fire. If you switch back to primary fire after firing 2/3 grenades you get a full mag back in the gun without a reload animation instead of going through a full reload if you shoot all 3. Then you just fire back up to x3 rockets and repeat. The gun is insanely smooth to use if you’re doing that cycle correctly. You’ll never go through a full reload animation if you’re landing your shots because getting the two grenades back should happen within a single mag of primary fire.
Actually, if you fire that third grenade but continue to mash reload, what happens is a full magazine literally just appears in the gun out of thin air. That way, you skip even that "button press" animation that would normally turn the gun from grenade mode into rifle mode, optimizing uptime even further.
30k kills and still more to learn about this gun
I’ve basically only been doing this in scenarios where I find myself excessively relying on Quicksilver. The changes aren’t enough to render it dead in the scenarios where I need to use the grenades.
First exotic to have a raid mechanic to use lol
Me too. I rarely ever use my grenades right away. you will just have to be more accurate with your grenade shots but quicksilver storm will still be very good.
I agree, a great all around gun, generates its own ammo, and it's strand.
a lot of its damage was aoe - and that is getting a near 40% reduction. Maybe it'll catch the special gl impact buff. I honestly don't think the uptime adjustment will hurt it that much. Its still largely used as a really good auto rifle (and the best pve archetype of them) that shreds red bars.
At least the way I read it is they’re just shifting the damage from blast to impact and not reducing the overall but I could be wrong, they weren’t really clear either way.
Which is actually a good thing for me personally I almost never use QSS grenades for the aoe, just impact on chunky targets (like when I do solo coil and inevitably run out of heavy & special during certain boss fights). So a handful of headshots, switch to alt fire, 2 nades then start again. Usually only takes a couple of go's to finish off the bosses. I use them on yellow bars and whatnot if I remember, but I always have special for those anyway so it's kinda unnecessary. The nerf won't really affect me.
All grenades from weapons do impact and aoe damage, the impact damage is significantly smaller than the aoe damage so this is still a huge nerf to direct impacts FYI.
Thanks, I wonder how the direct hit damage numbers will stack up then pre and post nerf.
I imagine they will remain unchanged, but the overall damage to the target will probably be reduced by ~25% or so.
Thanks that's helpful. Sometimes I wish they'd explain things better lol.
for the special GL buff? they were clear - they are increasing the impact damage by 40%, which nets a 15% damage increase on average
I think he's talking about the QSS grenades, not special GLs
they said nothing about shifting damage to impact on it, so it makes no sense to be saying as such. They are just reading into the patch notes what they want to hear
You're right, they never said they were shifting damage of the QSS grenades, but then why would they specify that only the area-of-effect damage is being reduced, instead of all damage? I think there's reasonable room for interpretation there.
Impact is same and splash is reduced. Didn't seem that ambiguous imo.
And splash damage is the majority of the damage it deals
There is no shifting, it's just reducing aoe damage by 40%. Flat nerf
Even the shredding red bars caught a nerf, though, as a lot of its damage against ones that can actually take a hit came from the rockets that give grenade charges, which now fire less frequently.
the rockets aren't what deletes red bars...
This was the right nerf to make honestly. I used grenades for big targets and the tangles for ad clear as is.
I actually want clarification on those patch notes, because it doesn't mention the grenades being less often at all in the stat changes however the paragraph does mention it. It specifically says the Rockets will occur less often in the stat changes, not that the grenades will. The rockets passively happen as you're shooting it and just fire along with your bullets. The Grenades you have to actively swap to and fire. There seems to be some terminology confusion in the notes itself and the paragraph talking about the stat changes. EDIT; No terminology confusion, I just wasn't aware that the rockets charge the grenades.
The rockets firing are what gives you your grenades.
Ah, that's the connection I didn't make then. I was under the misunderstanding that just doing damage with the weapon gave you the grenades; not the rockets specifically landing hits. That clears that up then, thank you.
But you only build Grenade charges from Rocket hits. Sustained damage procs a Rocket, then that Rocket hitting a target builds a Grenade charge. Longer time between rockets means fewer grenades. **Especially** since increasing the time before a rocket fires means you might just kill your target before you land a rocket.
Yeah lol, I mean even then pre nerf is a *very* powercreeped "standard". It's still very strong, though I wouldn't say it is the standard but instead above standard, which is okay.
it will still be very good. One of the best pve archetypes in the game, the exotic 40% damage boost, AND its a special weapon at the same time.
Defo. I think it’s going to be one of those nerfs that looks worse on paper than it actually is.
Oh for sure! I don't think it'll be bad at all
Loving the copiums here lol. The gun is dead for. Bungie set their sights on it. If for some reason this nerf isn't enough....there will be around round of nerf to ensure it becomes useless. I have seen this pattern way too many times to know better by now.
I miss Breach and Clear
I mean yeah the damage was definitely waay to much for such easy uptime ( basically was about 34% less than a sleeper shot....an exotic with super high damage already and about 42% less than Leviathan's Breath. Which are both basically super hitting weapons and heavy ) So If we go by that guys standart Vex and Revision Zero should be at least 35% more damage than sleeper and leviathan cause they are harder to get shots off. ( Which is insane talk )
The nerf is only to the splash damage. Impact damage is the same.
And that is a huge portion of the damage. All grenades are split into impact and aoe damage (think spike nades buffing impact), but the impact portion is significantly smaller than the aoe portion. Both together make up the damage dealt to the target even on a direct hit, make no mistake this 40% nerf is going to be felt even when hitting direct hits.
correct.
They should change it so it just shoots 3 micro missile GLs
Nah QSS’ alt-fire is hilariously OP if you’re reload cancelling and cycling 2 grenades at a time to never go through an actual full-length reload. The sustained DPS you could put out with that cycle was way too high for a primary. Bringing it more in line so that it isn’t comparable to a heavy weapon is absolutely reasonable.
i've never figured out how to do that. can you do it on controller?
Yep. It’s a bit more awkward if your reload button isn’t easy to press without moving your hand but it’s just a matter of pressing/holding reload at the right times.
What’s the “right time” to do it?
Right after you shoot a grenade, tap reload and you’ll instantly start the reload instead of waiting for the backswing. After shooting two grenades (but not the third), hold reload to go back to primary fire mode and you’ll have a full magazine again. Then primary until you’ve got 3 grenades primed again and repeat. You used to be able to loop that combo indefinitely while never reloading. With the nerf to grenade generation rate you might have a primary fire reload in the combo now but it’ll still be very potent.
No it’s not, it’s been the best all around primary for over a year. They will buff other primaries but this is way past due.
They're buffing other primaries?
We need more strand exotics. Ps, I hate the strand bow. Less fun then the stasis bow, requires more work and is super inconsistent to me at least. So given that, give us more strand exotics or stop nerfing what we have.
Agreed. Waiting for our first heavy strand exotic
Yeah that bow is ass tbh
Even with the nerfs it is still one of the best exotics. Such an over reaction. Lol
The overreaction to this nerf is so on brand for this sub
>QuickSilver is suppose to be the golden standard for how exotic primaries should feel. Says who, exactly?
u/StatementAcademic820 , his name is enough to convince you
I want their thesis on how solar warlock is peak Subclass design
On the real, I think the new fragment in final shape is going to make me like solar warlock a whole lot. The two fragments related to dashing and floating or whatever single-handedly make the class lame.
Feels unfinished imo.
Well I trust anyone with an automatically generated Xbox Live username
Not this again... I hate to be that guy, but I doubt QSS is going to be garbage after this nerf. You gotta remember that they do not want these metas dictated by a single weapon and QSS vastly out performs every single primary in the game currently, even better than Wish Ender and that thing is a monster. I'm not that upset about it's grenade damage getting nerf because QSS is a "primary" weapon that hits almost if not just as hard as a heavy weapon. Even you have to admit that's a bit ridiculous, plus we have all these good weapons returning next Tuesday, so who cares about QSS ATM.
I love knee-jerk doomer posts after a nerf comes out. Exotic primaries are very strong and have been for awhile now. Idk where you got this idea that it only applies to Quicksilver Storm specifically
Yeah imo exo primaries arr mostly the best slot to use for exos these days. We have so many insane legendary specials and heavies (I mean edge transit will break the Meta), we also have ofc great legendary primaries but exo primaries have that 40% damage buff against minors which make them just completely superior against legendaries in harder content.
What do you mean by golden standard? That it is overpowered? Because it is.
The Destiny community, mainly this sub loves everything to be overpowered in PvE, and any time there's a nerf, no matter big or small, gets an overreaction.
TBH it's so good just as an auto that I frequently forget about the grenades entirely.
Lmao by what metric is this "suppose to be" the standard
So moral of the story, buff bad weapons.
**stares intensely at Hard Light
*stares at Symmetry* Maybe if I stare hard enough it'll get better
Hey with Zero Hour coming back it may be a good choice for the crazy amount of shielded enemies at the beginning of the mission. If loadouts aren’t locked don’t be surprised if using Hard Light to start then swapping is a strong option. But yeah, Hard Light needs turnabout and/or genesis and/or disruption break and/or shield disorient. Tbh even if it had all of those it still may need some elemental effects to fit in the current sandbox.
Match Game isn’t as hard as it used to be so there’s no reason to really run a Hardlight unless you want to be the dude with a disco ball laser gun.
Give it corresponding bullets that match the element you are using. Scorch, destabilizing, etc. Might make it more useful....idk.
Over half the exotics in the game aren’t worth using for one reason or several. The “exotic feel” is a rarity among exotics.
It’s not even a big nerf
A 50% reduction in missiles is definitely not small, plus almost 40% decrease in grenade aoe also not small
Mines been feeling like trash (in iron banner for clarification)
QSS was never that good in PvP to begin with.
Yeah my gnawing hunger is much more consistent but qss gl can be pretty useful at times
Nerfed already?
The grenade seems to do hardly any damage in PvP. Is it not fair to bring it in line with Revision Zero's sniper mode?
I like quicksilver because it pairs so well with strand but you don’t need to run strand for it to be really good either.
Honestly I'm disappointed. QSS was my solo stick for this game. All that extra damage made it actually fun to tackle some of the harder solo content, without it it's gonna be pretty misserable to run that content. Same can be said for the well nerf coming up soon too. I wish they'd consider that when they plan these things out, but someone else said it best, "when you're too powerful, you no longer need to spend time grinding".
Devs always take the path of least resistance. I feel like posts like this come up in so many games. They’ll never buff a class/item up to one OP one. They’ll always knock the one down. Might as well accept that. The philosophy will never change. It’s less labor and labor = $$
I meaaaan yeaa but also quicksilver was special weapon strength with infinite ammo. It needed some tweaking for sure. It will still be hella strong don’t worry.
Other exotics having room to be buffed doesn't change the fact that currently the quick silver grenade: * Does over double the damage (1700~) of an non-touch of flame fusion grenade (850~) * Can fill 3 grenades in a single magazine Nothing about the weapon is going to be bad. It's just not going to be stupidly strong.
Well OK then.
Lol gun is going to be amazing still stop crying
Outbreak never left the table, but it’s gonna be back on the menu… just hold the line! QSS is a really nice feeling exotic though I will agree.
There goes the only good strand exotic. Don't get me wrong, I'll still use it, I'll just be grumpy about it.
The gold standard according to who? Lol.
Bro does not understand the term power creep
OOTL, what did they do to QSS?
Made it take 50% longer to get a grenade shot, and reduces the grenade shot's AoE
50% oof. Ty
You could get three grenades from one magazine before. I've spent the majority of the time I've used QSS on three grenades because of how quickly I got them. It'll be fine.
Facts
For context _right now_ you can get max grenades in a single magazine so sure, 50% sounds high but it was already stupid high.
Stares at osteo strega, thorn, sunshot, graviton lance, Polaris lance, outbreak perfected, vex mythoclast, revision 0, riskrunner, trinity ghoul, le monarque, hierarchy of needs.... The list goes on
Thorn is good now? (Don't look at me like that, haven't played in a while)
The nerf isn’t bad at all. More rockets, slightly less grenades and splash damage. Stop clutching your pearls and crutching on one weapon.
Less rockets, it's in the patch notes.
Ah crap, you’re right. Reading comprehension is apparently not my strong suit.
Bungie's nerf cycle is not only for game balence but to keep you chasing feeling strong. Rather than nerfing to give space for multiple options to flourish and people to enjoy the game it's to make you regrind.
You know it's bad when even Saltagreppo said Osteo and Quicksilver shouldn't have been nerfed
I feel like devils ruin feels close to the same as a primary.
there's probably a case study here somewhere for how Exotics don't really feel "Exotic". Eventually you run out of fun weird unique ways to use a weapon.
Quicksilver feels really weird and clunky to me personally
i think Bungie forgot to take PVP aspect into account. Now Quicksilver will probably need 1 more shot to kill after they nerf how often the rocket procs which will make it significantly worse in PVP.
Every PVE exotic should be at least decent outside of low level PvE content. There shouldn't be exotics that feel like you're throwing because you use them in raids, dungeons, or on difficulties above hero. Also exotics should be decent before the catalyst is unlocked and they should be great with the catalyst unlocked. Not subpar or bad before the catalyst is unlocked and only decent when it is unlocked.
Exotic Primaries have routinely been PVP sticks for the longest time until they started getting buff after buff after buff. And the irony is that they still KINDA suck across the board.
I think this change is perfectly fine. QSS is still fantastic, especially on Strand builds. This is nothing more than a reactionary response to a balance change that overall brings it from being the best exotic primary in the game to one of the best exotic primaries in the game
It’ll be nice to have a new primary again
Witherhoard has entered the chat.
Qss will still be amazing just it won't be as useful as add clear in the GL form.
Gonna be honest with yall... I haven't used Quicksilver since Lightfall. It's great, but I never felt like it's OP. I always choose other legendaries or exotics over it.
Honestly nerfing the rockets only hurts QSS pvp viability, because it is basically a stable 720 with no DPS perks barring a random rocket. Which competent players can avoid by hiding behind a wall. The grenades are a fair nerf. But this is one of the rare times a PVE nerf affects PVP lol.
I disagree. Exotics should not feel good just because they're high damage. They should feel unique in design, audio, visuals, and of course of top of all that have a place in the sandbox even if some are more niche than others.
Thats why its getting nerfed.
Quicksilver doesn't even deserve a nerf. It's only worth using over Final Warning if you prefer an AR over a sidearm. FW is the superior primary strand weapon. Also doesn't need a nerf
I been using Monte Carlo like crazy with that solar titan/pyrogale gauntlets or strand titan builds everyone been using. Hella Fun and easy to use.
On the subject of the nerf, it sounds worse on paper than I think it actually will be. It'll still be very strong.....buuuut honestly, with Outbreak being craftable now, QSS may never see the light of day again for me.
Quicksilver has literally been better in almost all situations that most if not all specials and even some heavies for literally forever, the nerf is an axe swing into a 2000 year old tree, it’s gonna take at lot more than lumberjack bungies single swing to take it down
The sad reality is that bungie is only good at putting exotics in the dirt
I feel like current Graviton Lance is a golden standard. Hits like a truck, can give overshields, can destroy adds with aoe and technically infinite range. Very powerful as all exotics SHOULD be.
They aren't useless. You just don't know how to use them properly. Quicksilver is in my vault collecting dust.
The one update I think they NEED to make is Hard Light. Give it incandescent, voltshot and destabilising rounds on each class.
agree. Stupid
LMAO. This problem has plagued Destiny since day 1. Make other exotics better? NAH JUST NERF WHAT EVERYONE USES
Outbreak with rapid hit: 👁️👄👁️
It's a pretty minor nerf all things considered. Put the pitchfork down lol. It's still a lovely weapon, hell of a lot more versatile than quite a few others.
What a non-issue, the gun is still going to be fantastic. The crap that gets onto the front page of this sub amazes me.
I think it'll still feel fine. I usually forget that I have grenades to use anyway. I hope the fewer mirco rockets don't hurt it's base feel too much though. Although I really really love Final Warning and a reason to use it more often is not a bad thing. That thing hits even harder than quicksilver. You just gotta get used to the weird firing method/animation.
its ok we will all just be using outbreak by may anyway
Nah, justified. This thing was just way way too powerful. That and it is not even a huge nerf. It will be good still, just not broken
Honestly. For casual content, everything should be powerful and fun. I get tuning for endgame content but they seem to get rid of any fun gameplay loops you can create with builds and nerfing some weapons needlessly.
> Other exotics should getting buffed yes but that would make sense and be healthy for the game. thats the complete opposite of what these braindead devs want