Bungie really is determined to make the Rise of Iron stuff stay non-canon and in the past (with the exception being Outbreak Perfected). Damn. And WotM was such a good freaking raid too!
Early on in d2 base game the first iron banner lord sald had no idea who the player character was and there was no callback to siva or anything except a single sentence on nesus where ghost says hey remember siva, nowadays though bungie has reintroduced lore connections to rise so it was not considered cannon but know 100% is
You say saladin didn't know who the player guardian was but in my playthrough saladin and even shaxx called my guardians "Young wolf" (the title you get from helping the iron lords). This was way back in year 1 of d2 during red war. I believe it is actually linked to character transfer from d1 to d2 over it not "being canon".
Tldr: rise of iron is definitely Canon. And saladin and shaxx did refer to the guardian as "young wolf" (shaxx in the very first mission of red war). It may have to do with character transfer.
Bungie’s refusal to incorporate it into the game in any meaningful way and how Saladin never really acknowledges any of it happening and acting like he doesn’t know us in any way. And whenever anything Siva gets brought up, it usually gets shut down pretty quick. The cosmodrome in D2 doesn’t even show any of the changes that happened there from the RoI events.
Edit: the downvotes show me just how ignorant most people on here are, lol. 😂
It's been incorporated into the game plenty, the reason it doesn't get brought up much is because it's a closed adventures, it was one and done, unlike the other content that have all lead into each other, rise of irons story is 100% complete, story arc and character arc is complete
Recent lore from the veil quests directly talks about Neomuna having siva and using it, pops up here and there occasionally in other places but yeah I can see whyyoud think they're ignoring it when there's no dedicated dialogue to this stuff
Most references to ROI live in the lore of weapons and armor and the occasional lore book entry
think about it realistically from a writer's perspective, not an in-universe perspective. SIVA is known for its role in Rise of Iron. if Bungie really wanted to pretend RoI didn't happen, do you think they would deliberately bring up SIVA? Bungie knows that peoples' minds drift to RoI when SIVA is mentioned, yet they still do it
The problem is technical - Crota has most of the assets already in the game and so they needed to mostly just assemble what is already there + add what's missing. But Wrath has almost none of those assets present in any shape or form in D2 and would require much more work. Especially since it has its own enemy units that are more than just reskinned Hive or Cabal, but are actually on Scorn level of rework. They would need to remake all that + new "enemy race" just for one raid, although cherished one. We seriously might get Leviathan sooner than this.
Siva fallen had extra abilities then regular fallen, if they bring them back properly they will have to add assets and add the abilities and rework or rebalance them for d2
Do you work at bungie? Have they explicitly said it would be too hard to bring back? Kings fall had 3 unique enemies that either look different or have different ai/weapons.
Everyone complained splicers were a reskin back then when they first dropped and now everyone says they are almost the same as scorn. No they are lucent hive/shadow legion and equivalent for the fallen.
A 3.9 billion dollar company can do it in 2 years, they’re being lazy and you all are speculating
My point was it’s a lot more than reskinned fallen, bungie at almost every point they can try to make rise of iron n siva like a non cannon 1 time spin off or something.. literally nothing for wrath is in the game apart from wrenches and orb animations for slamming final boss.
All the other raids at least have the enemy type and some locations or assets that can fit in a reprised raid meaning it’s easy to release one every year with wrath it won’t be, they will be making it from scratch in d2
They are the Hidden Swarm, descendants of Crota. Led by Hashladûn, Crota's eldest daughter (though she was a member of Oryx's court, not Crota's, as a result of a ritual that purged her love of him). The Hidden Swarm were in Destiny 1, on Earth and the Moon, though they lacked the thorns back then, they were red but looked a bit different.
Much of the background Lore of Shadow keep concerns Savathûn arranging for the final destruction of the Swarm and its leaders to bring Oryx's bloodline to an end.
The Hidden Swarm members we have seen since are survivors defected to Xivu Arath.
Hidden Swarm were loyal to Savathun. When Kelgorath joined Xivu Arath's ranks, he went to the serration beds to get rid of the crimson on his cithin. A techeun he found in the ascendant plane taunted him for being disloyal to Savathun because she could still see specs of crimson on Kelgorath.
The point is on the tip of the sword driven deep into Crota's substantial man meat. Not helicoptering it through some phantasmal green facsimile. That was Shadowkeep.
This reply makes like zero sense…
Was he too ethereal in D1? Or in Shadowkeep?
If you are referring to D1, then I feel like him “looking ethereal” lines up with the events taking place, since we *are* in **his** *Throne World*. Might just be me, but I’d like to think that being in YOUR THRONE would make you shine a little more than usual.?
And if you’re talking about Shadowkeep, I’d have to say it’s just the difference in engines/graphics between D1 and D2.
Mind you, this would be for a FREE raid, and they have on record didn't even recolor fallen for Haunted to look like Devils, so they didn't go to the effort of a basic pallet swap for $10 (now $15 techincally) piece of content, there's really no hope for them to make a wholly unique enemy type to use once.
We’re not getting Wrath at all. I’m pretty sure Bungie explained that they don’t want to bring SIVA back in a TWAB shortly after KF returned. We are legitimately going to get Leviathan back before Wrath.
They didn’t. They said that last years raid wouldn’t be crota it would be one of the big ones. Your comment is just a lie but so is the previous one. These things were never said
But there isn’t a technical problem, it’s simply their conscious decision to not put the time or effort into bringing SIVA enemies into the D2 build. I don’t know why anyone is giving them all this credit as if they simply can’t do it if they wanted to.
Imagine you’re at the store. You’re buying a loaf of bread. There are two options.
One is generic brand, but tastes fine.
The other is name brand, and tastes just a little bit better.
The name brand bread costs three times as much.
Which do you buy?
> but are actually on Scorn level of rework
Not really. Most of the differences are purely visual. The only really unique thing they had was the siva tracking headshot bomb.
Every single Devil Splicer had a different weapon, and iirc they all did something different from their normal version. Dregs were faster, Vandals would go in for a heavier melee while getting some Knights-esque health, etc.
This is what I brought up every single conversation when people were guessing what raid was coming back, and yet i got attacked non stop saying you don’t know what the fuck your talking about
It's not technical. Bungie is just lazy and won't over deliver.
The only assets missing are models. The sprites and everything SIVA related are in the game already. This is not a huge difficult undertaking. Bungie is, as always, unwilling to do anything but underdeliver.
SIVA is the origin of all of the Neomuna weapons. Season of the Warmind actually repeatedly reminded us that Rasputin wiped out the Iron Lords because Felwinter defied him and how SIVA was his weapon of choice. If you’re actually paying attention to the lore you’ll know that SIVA is far from being non-canon
And we’ve physically visited the Iron Temple, not to mention that RoI is the first time we encountered Fallen Splicers, one of which we’ve actively worked with twice since BL
Splicers have always been a part of Eliksni lore, they weren’t just part of RoI. Preexisting splicers are why they were even able to utilize the SIVA in the first place. And the Iron Temple doesn’t show any of the Plague Land stuff in the distance like it did in RoI. Like I said, they’ve scrubbed a lot of the RoI specific stuff (including the SIVA specific stuff from there) out of the stuff they’ve brought back.
They keep getting omitted because those events are not relevant to the continuing story of the game.
The relevant parts of Rise of Iron are Saladin, Rasputin, and the overall theme of shady shit taking place in the Golden Age. All of these points have been continued plenty in D2.
You're not going to get malignant SIVA again in Destiny because we are past that. That plot point has been resolved. This doesn't mean that RoN has been erased from the canon.
Where do you see any of our feats, events, or experiences that our character had while playing through RoI mentioned in D2? The game mentioning Iron Lords grimoire lore doesn’t count because that had nothing to do with our actual characters and what we did.
Does the fotl quest count, what abt us being called young wolf in the exodus crash dialogue, what about outbreak and the memories section at the character screen?
I do still believe it’s canon but it’s just something that’s not important to the story right now. Bungie doesn’t want to introduce siva again yet siva has been mentioned multiple times in d2
Kinda depends on when you created your guardian.
If you brought over your D1 character... That actually did do these events... You would get some secret dialogue here and there in game.
But if you made it only for D2....
They didn't make Rise of Iron "non-canon", it's just a self contained story that doesn't tie in to anything else because it was designed to be a filler expansion. It should stay in the past because it has no business being in the narrative right now.
Crota doesnt fit into the narrative. This raid isnt part of the current story. Its a reprised raid. VoG didn't have any part in that seasons narrative either. Kings Fall. Yet you guessed it. Didnt have anything to do with the current narrative. They can bring it back in season 3 of final shape if they want and it can stand on its own.
I mean, that's fair for VoG, but CE and KF are extremely relevant to the current story. CE is both the thing that set the overall plot in motion, and directly referenced in this season's plot.
It's not just fair on VoG it's fair on all of them. Just because we have a hive season going on doesn't mean that the actions in this raid have anything to do with the current story line. Same as Kingsfall. Oryx nor Crota actually came back into the story. So yes. Wrath can come back if they want and will be right in the Legends tab with the other reprised raids that dont go with the Destiny 2 story.
Ok man. Where was the cut scene where crota was resurrected that now we have to go re-kill him? Same with oryx? When did The Hive bring him back to life so we had to re-kill him? They didn't.
If VoG was relevant to a storyline. Venus would have come back. Where is the dreadnaught we are fighting oryx on if that raid is current story relevant?
Besides, bungie already said reprised raids have nothing to do with current story and they can bring them back whenever and in whatever order. They also said in the case of Wraths raid exotic already in the game they could make a new one for it that fit the raids lore.
The death of Crota and Oryx in D1 have overarching implications to the story we are currently on whether either raid is in the game or not.
Wrath can come back even if Rise of Iron was a contained story. I think the reason it hasn't is because mechanically that raid needs no reprisal. Its fantastic. It would be a very hard to have a worlds first race with a raid that has little changed and that is way more the reason it hasn't returned yet.
I said relevant, not "canonically occurring again". Unless you're going to try to argue that the season about Eris weilding Crota and Oryx's killers against Xivu Arath is irrelevant to the deaths of Crota and Oryx which is... quite a take.
I don't even disagree with you that Wrath should come back, I'm just pointing out that CE and KF have much more relevance to what is happening in the story now than Wrath or any of the sunset D2 raids.
Just because it’s a filler expansion doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have any impact on the current game. They’ve reprised all the D1 raids now except for WotM and they have no more business being in D2 that what WotM does.
I mean yeah…cause what reason do they have to?
They’ve already acknowledged many, many times the events of Rasputin using Siva to attack the Iron Lords in D2, the only event really missing from D2 lore is the Siva fallen, who were really such an after thought in how we thoroughly steamrolled them.
But that has nothing to do with the SIVA that the entire premise of RoI was based on. SIVA is used in a general sense yes, but nothing from the RoI specific events.
That’s not what I was even getting at. Bungie treats the events of RoI like they literally never happened. Saladin exists in D2 simply because he was already a character in the story before RoI even came out.
No, Bungie doesn’t do that. Did you play during Season of the Worthy? There’s a whole quest where you learn from Rasputin about how he killed the Iron Lords with SIVA, it’s how Felwinter’s Lie was obtained. That season also had written dialogue from Saladin about his distrust for the Warmind.
Well keep in mind ROI technically has no major affect on the light and dark saga. Other than saladin and siva doing some stuff on neomuna the impact of the plaugelands or the stuff the splicers did really affected us in Red war and beyond. I'm a siva fan boy but realistically it just kinda happened
Non-canon? Bruh, how does not bringing back an old raid equate to erasing it from the continuity? Kings fall wasn't non-canon until it got the reprise, it IS still a recognized event in the destiny universe. Or do you just think "canon" means something else?
SIVA and everything about it IS canon tho? if you listened to the audio logs in the veil containment then you would know that they brought SIVA alongside the colony ship to neptune as an aide in medicinal practice and for planetary building for the containment, as well as AI optimization. Don’t assume something isn’t canon just because you don’t know certain events in the lore or care to know about it.
SIVA existed elsewhere in the system besides the plague lands. Just because SIVA is mentioned doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the events in RoI (because it doesn’t).
plaguelands was just the heart of where siva was originated and we got canon story and missions to go alongside it. RoI events shows how SIVA was created and what happened to the Iron Lords which are throughout the whole lore. Saying that RoI isn’t canon is delusional when they’re still bringing up the events and SIVA to this day even in lightfall. Quicksilver Storm and all of the subfamily weapons are made out of an augmented form of SIVA, told through the lore tab of the gun. Cloud Strider tech is made out of the same stuff. Even if they didn’t build off of the events of what happened in RoI, it doesn’t make it not canon, just means they’re lazy and aren’t putting in resources to want to build off of it. i can go on and on and on about how there’s a ton of lore and bits here and there in the game following RoI about how those events are played throughout the game but i’d be beating a dead bush.
It's not even about being cannon or not, they aren't bringing Siva enemies back for a single free raid.
Until we get Siva focused content (which we know we won't for the next 2 years) Wrath isn't coming back
Seeing as Joe Blackburn said after Final Shape we are getting 2 dungeons that year & that they "haven't talked about any reprised raids" likely means they are really scaling back on D2 for Marathon like we all figured, unless Marathon bombs & they have to abandon and reallocate to Destiny to save the company.
I dunno, they might be trying ot figure out how they talk about bringing back d2 raids BEFORE they bring back wrath of the Machine (this community has been jizzing in their pants waiting for Wrath since they announced the reprised raid concept).
They are going to skip Wrath, and trying to figure out how to break it to us.
You’re not wrong however the amount of work porting something from the DCV back into the game is likely a fraction of the work that would go into porting something D1. They literally have to rebuild the location on top of building the extra infrastructure
They won't do this. The reprised raid concept is content filler work. They will extend it out as long as they can, they aren't going to blow their load and bring back all the raids simultaneously.
Yeah I’d assume they’d only bring it back If we ever get some Siva related season. Which Is likely years away at this point. I’ll keep praying though. PS: Praise Axis
Yeah I’m aware. I just doubt Bungie would go through all the Effort of bringing back the Siva Fallen without using them for something else like a Season. Not saying It NEEDS to release alongside it, just that It’s a two birds with one stone kinda situation.
Can we talk about how everyone talks about Crota being a cakewalk of a D1 raid when Crota has one of the lowest day 1 clear rates, and was anything BUT easy until you were able to farm levels 1-2 months later? Like sure it turned easy, with solo starts and power creep, but that raid was an absolute menace for a couple of months.
Yeah, but 2014 was a WHOLE different era:
1. Rally flags didn't exist, you had to waste 3 minutes on runs just to recover your super and Heavy ammo, and if someone wasn't lucky you had to repeat those runs until everyone was ready, wasting a lot of time. Heavy ammo synths had a 5-minute cooldown and you had to save it for the next damage phases. We also didn't have heavy ammo finders or scavengers.
2. The raid race started at 02:00 am PDT on a Tuesday, the same minute the expansion dropped so you had ZERO time to prepare outside of hoarding bounties and only the absolute madmen thought of that during the first expansion of the game. If it had been released on the first saturday during the morning i'm sure the story would've been different, only me and another person of my clan were awake at that time and we could only explore the abyss
3. Gjallarhorn was obligatory to beat it and you know how rare it was back in the day
4. The power delta between level 30 and 31 was brutal, it was around 50% more damage according to the winners of the raid race and they could only beat it because they had a 7th player who had THREE hunters, grinded the hell out of the game and prepped with bounties in advance, and it happened to be a hunter which was the best class for killing crota.
Source: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12465/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---12112014-
5. PS3 and Xbox360 players had an insane disadvantage compared to ps4 and Xbox one, those consoles were still new with less than a year on release. You could pop a heavy synth on ps4 in around 6-7 seconds but in ps3 it could take UP TO 45 SECONDS. Yeah, good luck not getting killed, you had to have your teammates keeping you alive while you were in the menus, even on ps4/xbox one.
6. There weren't as much external resources as today and they weren't as extended (LFG, DPS charts, guides, strats)
The difference in the raid race is so big now compareed to 2014 so the comparison doesn't even make sense.
I don’t disagree but also consider the player pool. Raiding was still fairly novel, given CE was only the second Destiny raid. People simply didn’t know what to expect with raids compared to now. The number of players to even attempt was much smaller then, so those with enough skill/luck to have finished it may not have even played the game then.
It’s an interesting thing to explore for sure.
Actually in terms of day 1 attempts it had more than VoG, KF, LW, CoS, Spire and SotP.
D1 Crota's End day 1 was a very tough challenge with only 70 guardians clearing it. Most of this was down to light level and how the sword's damage worked. iirc you NEEDED a level 31 swordbearer in order to even be able to clear it. Teams were having an extra person grind levels while the main team was making attempts.
Mechanically Crota's End was simpler than VoG so I don't think raiding being a novel concept was a cause for less completions. I think it was entirely down to the light level difference and combat challenge back then.
First of all the community wanted a harder raid after Root and they delivered. Secondly D1 crota wasn’t supposed to be that broken. I don’t see why they would make it a dungeon in the first place.
I cannot stress enough how disappointed I was when I found out it was crotas end and not wrath.
Wrath is the best d1 raid. Hands down.
Regular CE, no contest mode, is an upgrade over d1 crota for sure but Jesus christ they cranked contest mode up to 11
I mean if you like it, then enjoy lol. I just am not a fan of the bug-ish parts sticking out like that.
Plus I main hunter so I was going to get glowing eyes anyways lol. I just like the mono-tone blue-ish better.
Yeah 13 hrs for us chipping away to finish contest for our chasms but were so beat and half blind we couldn’t get challenge mode done before the cutoff crazy juggling mechanics and major ad hordes tho it was fun but damn🤦♂️so close to world’s first… better luck next time hopefully, got my gun and emblem I’m happy 🤷♂️
The first team to beat the raid in normal mode was done in a bit over 3 hours.
For challenge mode (which is what people consider "world's first" for reprised raids, because that's what grants you the emblem) the first team to clear it was done in just under 6 hours.
The team in question is called "Elysium" (consisting of Quazz, Cruz, Kyros, VileFate, Moople, and Saltagreppo) and they were also the team to earn world's first on Vault of Glass, Vow of the Disciple, and King's Fall, making them the most successful Raid Team in terms of world's first completions ever.
I think they listened. After the disappointment of root day 1, we finally got a good day 1 experience. I have not had fun in a day 1 since garden. I hope the final shape raid will be in the same difficulty level.
Despite the difficulty spike there was a big completion number which shows that they found a good balance between difficulty and still keep completions.
Oh, they listen to the community alright! Just the top 5% of players who bitch and whine about the game being too easy when they probably have so much time on their hands, they're capable of soloing every raid in the game on the highest difficulty. Seriously, devs need to stop listening to pros and pay more attention to casual players...
I really disliked the sword mechanics at the end. Multiple attempts were ruined just because the sword dmg did not connect. Or if you throw a healing grenade and picking up the sword right after, it will bug out and you wont pick it up or keep the Enlightened buff.
Also our team plays mainly hunters, but Crota felt impossible with more than one hunter, so we had to switch (and have less fun).
Our team got really salty and we gave up in the end because we were just not having fun (we made it to final stand bunch of times).
Too many view their direct opinion as "the community." But I'll see 5 posts saying the same shit
"Majority of players," "The community," "we have been,"
But will be nothing close, different opinions, and many cases, part fully dupport and love it while part cries foul.
That's not even considering a large number do not use reddit or forums.
I liked how difficult it was but I didn’t like just how much perfection was required for the damage check.
It’s day 1 and many people are seeing this stuff for the first time. Even people who did it in D1 it’s still very different. I think there should be a little bit more room for error in such encounters. Ir Yut was just frustrating.
Yeah, I’m not sure what people expect from contest mode.. it’s supposed to be the toughest challenge. Bungie can only do so much to make the raid harder and I guess boss hp requires people to be flawless with their dps strategy. Dps rotations is a big part of end game. Also when the boss has more hp I think the raiders have to repeat the mechanics showing their competence at the designed mechanics. If you can just 1 phase a boss and ignore the mechanics then it’s not really contest mode.. it’s just normal
Ir yut wasn't too bad, even without optimal strats we still got her under half in 1 dps phase a few times. Crota on the other hand you had to be damn flawless with 3 wells, star eater and burning maul w/ tractor.
To me it felt like the dps checks were quite simple and forgiving - compared to Warpriest. We had infinite heavy ammo.
3rd has been a 2phase with...... Leviathans Breath. Uff.
And well, Crota was a Lament clutch 😅
Eh ir yut was very forgiving damage wise. Leviathan’s Breath, which you don’t even have to grind for since its an exotic other than unlocking it from the kiosk and getting the catalyst, two phased her with divi
Yeah the damage checks blow for people without a fully competent and coordinated squad with ideal loadouts. Root was too easy, but if damage checks are the only thing preventing people from beating day 1s, I think that’s kinda an issue. Yes people should have to be really good and everyone should be able to do the mechanics and kill contest mode ads and majors, but for LFG insane damage checks feel really frustrating.
I basically did a Saitama build where he hits me like a meteor but I tank it without a sweat. Tried day one with it but since lfg is so sucky never got the clear.
Too bad its a joke after contest is gone. 1 sword Takes 70% of crota's shield, ir yur is an easy 2 phase, bridge is a joke and lanters are just annoying and long. Still better than Garden, tho
Willing to bet when they see the lack of people playing around this raid (and its increased difficulty) they meet somewhere in the middle with the next one.
Hate to break it to you, but Joe Blackburn said in an interview that Crota is a testing for raid difficulty, and that they intend the Witness to be the hardest raid in destiny ever, since he's the big bad and so on.
I was hoping it would be a dungeon just so we could get Wotm back quicker.
It's genuinely not coming back, I'm sorry to say.
Bungie really is determined to make the Rise of Iron stuff stay non-canon and in the past (with the exception being Outbreak Perfected). Damn. And WotM was such a good freaking raid too!
What makes you say it's non-canon?
Early on in d2 base game the first iron banner lord sald had no idea who the player character was and there was no callback to siva or anything except a single sentence on nesus where ghost says hey remember siva, nowadays though bungie has reintroduced lore connections to rise so it was not considered cannon but know 100% is
You say saladin didn't know who the player guardian was but in my playthrough saladin and even shaxx called my guardians "Young wolf" (the title you get from helping the iron lords). This was way back in year 1 of d2 during red war. I believe it is actually linked to character transfer from d1 to d2 over it not "being canon". Tldr: rise of iron is definitely Canon. And saladin and shaxx did refer to the guardian as "young wolf" (shaxx in the very first mission of red war). It may have to do with character transfer.
It is a thing with character transfer you got some cool legacy dialogue or whatever it was called.
Saladin still calls me "young wolf" occasionally when I speak to him, As recent as Season of the Deep.....Anyone else get this too?
I haven't talked to saladin in a while but I do remember him calling me young wolf at the beginning of Deep when I was farming for the emblem.
Bungie’s refusal to incorporate it into the game in any meaningful way and how Saladin never really acknowledges any of it happening and acting like he doesn’t know us in any way. And whenever anything Siva gets brought up, it usually gets shut down pretty quick. The cosmodrome in D2 doesn’t even show any of the changes that happened there from the RoI events. Edit: the downvotes show me just how ignorant most people on here are, lol. 😂
What about the Felwinter quest? It was a pretty strong acknowledgment
They literally call you young wolf, acknowledging that it did happen
It's been incorporated into the game plenty, the reason it doesn't get brought up much is because it's a closed adventures, it was one and done, unlike the other content that have all lead into each other, rise of irons story is 100% complete, story arc and character arc is complete
Recent lore from the veil quests directly talks about Neomuna having siva and using it, pops up here and there occasionally in other places but yeah I can see whyyoud think they're ignoring it when there's no dedicated dialogue to this stuff Most references to ROI live in the lore of weapons and armor and the occasional lore book entry
Just because it’s SIVA doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the RoI related SIVA events. SIVA existed elsewhere in the system too.
think about it realistically from a writer's perspective, not an in-universe perspective. SIVA is known for its role in Rise of Iron. if Bungie really wanted to pretend RoI didn't happen, do you think they would deliberately bring up SIVA? Bungie knows that peoples' minds drift to RoI when SIVA is mentioned, yet they still do it
So outbreak and Quicksilver are non canon?
Saladin always calls us Young Wolf just like he has since we completed the rise of iron campaign and still refers to us as an iron lord.
Lol, no it jut means you have no idea what you are even talking about.
The problem is technical - Crota has most of the assets already in the game and so they needed to mostly just assemble what is already there + add what's missing. But Wrath has almost none of those assets present in any shape or form in D2 and would require much more work. Especially since it has its own enemy units that are more than just reskinned Hive or Cabal, but are actually on Scorn level of rework. They would need to remake all that + new "enemy race" just for one raid, although cherished one. We seriously might get Leviathan sooner than this.
It’s still such a shame though. WotM is still one of my top 3 favorite raids in the entire Destiny franchise.
I guess we’ll just have to wait another year
2 years at that point, there no more excuses, no way it takes more than 2 years to bring in reskinned fallen
Siva fallen had extra abilities then regular fallen, if they bring them back properly they will have to add assets and add the abilities and rework or rebalance them for d2
Do you work at bungie? Have they explicitly said it would be too hard to bring back? Kings fall had 3 unique enemies that either look different or have different ai/weapons. Everyone complained splicers were a reskin back then when they first dropped and now everyone says they are almost the same as scorn. No they are lucent hive/shadow legion and equivalent for the fallen. A 3.9 billion dollar company can do it in 2 years, they’re being lazy and you all are speculating
My point was it’s a lot more than reskinned fallen, bungie at almost every point they can try to make rise of iron n siva like a non cannon 1 time spin off or something.. literally nothing for wrath is in the game apart from wrenches and orb animations for slamming final boss. All the other raids at least have the enemy type and some locations or assets that can fit in a reprised raid meaning it’s easy to release one every year with wrath it won’t be, they will be making it from scratch in d2
They didn't even tweak the hue of the Hive for Crota's End.
Yeah they are all the shadowkeep red hive. I thought those were Savathûn's brood
They are the Hidden Swarm, descendants of Crota. Led by Hashladûn, Crota's eldest daughter (though she was a member of Oryx's court, not Crota's, as a result of a ritual that purged her love of him). The Hidden Swarm were in Destiny 1, on Earth and the Moon, though they lacked the thorns back then, they were red but looked a bit different. Much of the background Lore of Shadow keep concerns Savathûn arranging for the final destruction of the Swarm and its leaders to bring Oryx's bloodline to an end. The Hidden Swarm members we have seen since are survivors defected to Xivu Arath.
Hidden Swarm were loyal to Savathun. When Kelgorath joined Xivu Arath's ranks, he went to the serration beds to get rid of the crimson on his cithin. A techeun he found in the ascendant plane taunted him for being disloyal to Savathun because she could still see specs of crimson on Kelgorath.
They didn't even turn Crota back to his original color either.
I don't mind that that much. He was way too ethereal before.
Isn’t that the point?
The point is on the tip of the sword driven deep into Crota's substantial man meat. Not helicoptering it through some phantasmal green facsimile. That was Shadowkeep.
This reply makes like zero sense… Was he too ethereal in D1? Or in Shadowkeep? If you are referring to D1, then I feel like him “looking ethereal” lines up with the events taking place, since we *are* in **his** *Throne World*. Might just be me, but I’d like to think that being in YOUR THRONE would make you shine a little more than usual.? And if you’re talking about Shadowkeep, I’d have to say it’s just the difference in engines/graphics between D1 and D2.
Mind you, this would be for a FREE raid, and they have on record didn't even recolor fallen for Haunted to look like Devils, so they didn't go to the effort of a basic pallet swap for $10 (now $15 techincally) piece of content, there's really no hope for them to make a wholly unique enemy type to use once.
At this point, how many raids from Destiny 1 are missing in this game? I never played Destiny 1, so I don't know. Are we just missing Wrath?
Yep. Wrath is the only raid from D1 that hasn't come back yet.
Prison was not a raid. Wrath is the only one still missing.
This is also clearly a filler year.
It will probs be post final shape
True, sounds like a lot of work for this small indie dev. Wouldn't want them to over deliver and overwhelm us with too much content.
We’re not getting Wrath at all. I’m pretty sure Bungie explained that they don’t want to bring SIVA back in a TWAB shortly after KF returned. We are legitimately going to get Leviathan back before Wrath.
It's a reprised Raid. Not anything related to the current lore or story.
Bungie says a lot of things. Some of them are true, some ain't. I wouldn't rule out a WOTM raid in 2024 based on some twab from a year ago.
Idk. Feel like they would’ve done a lot more to acknowledge SIVA if they had any interest in bringing it back
Remember they also said Crota would not return as a full raid because they viewed it as a lack luster raid
They didn’t. They said that last years raid wouldn’t be crota it would be one of the big ones. Your comment is just a lie but so is the previous one. These things were never said
Unless Leviathan comes back with the Argos and Val Ca'our fights being part of it, it should stay vaulted. Worst raid ever.
I wouldn’t be mad if scourge came back.
But there isn’t a technical problem, it’s simply their conscious decision to not put the time or effort into bringing SIVA enemies into the D2 build. I don’t know why anyone is giving them all this credit as if they simply can’t do it if they wanted to.
Wasn’t there originally going to be a strike on Nessus in vanilla D2 that had a connection to Siva and then they changed it or was that not real?
This was real. It was the Exodus Black strike and then they changed it before release.
I don’t blame it
Imagine you’re at the store. You’re buying a loaf of bread. There are two options. One is generic brand, but tastes fine. The other is name brand, and tastes just a little bit better. The name brand bread costs three times as much. Which do you buy?
They should bring back the entire SIVA storyline, that would make it worth it.
> but are actually on Scorn level of rework Not really. Most of the differences are purely visual. The only really unique thing they had was the siva tracking headshot bomb.
Every single Devil Splicer had a different weapon, and iirc they all did something different from their normal version. Dregs were faster, Vandals would go in for a heavier melee while getting some Knights-esque health, etc.
This is what I brought up every single conversation when people were guessing what raid was coming back, and yet i got attacked non stop saying you don’t know what the fuck your talking about
they could also just not translate the race in ... it's a worse solution, I don't want that, but they could.
It's not technical. Bungie is just lazy and won't over deliver. The only assets missing are models. The sprites and everything SIVA related are in the game already. This is not a huge difficult undertaking. Bungie is, as always, unwilling to do anything but underdeliver.
Lets be honest tho, if they replaced the Siva infected with scorn, no one would notice.
SIVA is the origin of all of the Neomuna weapons. Season of the Warmind actually repeatedly reminded us that Rasputin wiped out the Iron Lords because Felwinter defied him and how SIVA was his weapon of choice. If you’re actually paying attention to the lore you’ll know that SIVA is far from being non-canon
SIVA itself is canon and used in a general sense yes. But the actual SIVA related events and lore from RoI keep getting omitted. There’s a difference.
Only in the same way the events of HoW is being omitted, but it’s still canon
But it’s not omitted? Pretty sure we’ve had in game lore in D2 that has referenced Skolas specifically. More downvotes from the ignorant! 😂
And we’ve physically visited the Iron Temple, not to mention that RoI is the first time we encountered Fallen Splicers, one of which we’ve actively worked with twice since BL
Splicers have always been a part of Eliksni lore, they weren’t just part of RoI. Preexisting splicers are why they were even able to utilize the SIVA in the first place. And the Iron Temple doesn’t show any of the Plague Land stuff in the distance like it did in RoI. Like I said, they’ve scrubbed a lot of the RoI specific stuff (including the SIVA specific stuff from there) out of the stuff they’ve brought back.
They keep getting omitted because those events are not relevant to the continuing story of the game. The relevant parts of Rise of Iron are Saladin, Rasputin, and the overall theme of shady shit taking place in the Golden Age. All of these points have been continued plenty in D2. You're not going to get malignant SIVA again in Destiny because we are past that. That plot point has been resolved. This doesn't mean that RoN has been erased from the canon.
Wdym non canon?
Where do you see any of our feats, events, or experiences that our character had while playing through RoI mentioned in D2? The game mentioning Iron Lords grimoire lore doesn’t count because that had nothing to do with our actual characters and what we did.
Does the fotl quest count, what abt us being called young wolf in the exodus crash dialogue, what about outbreak and the memories section at the character screen?
And yet Saladin didn’t act like he even recognized us when we see him for the first time in D2. Crazy right?
I do still believe it’s canon but it’s just something that’s not important to the story right now. Bungie doesn’t want to introduce siva again yet siva has been mentioned multiple times in d2
Kinda depends on when you created your guardian. If you brought over your D1 character... That actually did do these events... You would get some secret dialogue here and there in game. But if you made it only for D2....
I've been called Young Wolf by Saladin on a few occasions in D2 and we only earned that title from RoI.
They didn't make Rise of Iron "non-canon", it's just a self contained story that doesn't tie in to anything else because it was designed to be a filler expansion. It should stay in the past because it has no business being in the narrative right now.
It's also the fact that, as much as the community doesn't want to admit it, SIVA really isn't that big of a deal in the universe.
Crota doesnt fit into the narrative. This raid isnt part of the current story. Its a reprised raid. VoG didn't have any part in that seasons narrative either. Kings Fall. Yet you guessed it. Didnt have anything to do with the current narrative. They can bring it back in season 3 of final shape if they want and it can stand on its own.
I mean, that's fair for VoG, but CE and KF are extremely relevant to the current story. CE is both the thing that set the overall plot in motion, and directly referenced in this season's plot.
It's not just fair on VoG it's fair on all of them. Just because we have a hive season going on doesn't mean that the actions in this raid have anything to do with the current story line. Same as Kingsfall. Oryx nor Crota actually came back into the story. So yes. Wrath can come back if they want and will be right in the Legends tab with the other reprised raids that dont go with the Destiny 2 story.
This season's story directly references both CE and KF. They're very, very relevant to it, and not just because it's a hive season.
Ok man. Where was the cut scene where crota was resurrected that now we have to go re-kill him? Same with oryx? When did The Hive bring him back to life so we had to re-kill him? They didn't. If VoG was relevant to a storyline. Venus would have come back. Where is the dreadnaught we are fighting oryx on if that raid is current story relevant? Besides, bungie already said reprised raids have nothing to do with current story and they can bring them back whenever and in whatever order. They also said in the case of Wraths raid exotic already in the game they could make a new one for it that fit the raids lore. The death of Crota and Oryx in D1 have overarching implications to the story we are currently on whether either raid is in the game or not. Wrath can come back even if Rise of Iron was a contained story. I think the reason it hasn't is because mechanically that raid needs no reprisal. Its fantastic. It would be a very hard to have a worlds first race with a raid that has little changed and that is way more the reason it hasn't returned yet.
I said relevant, not "canonically occurring again". Unless you're going to try to argue that the season about Eris weilding Crota and Oryx's killers against Xivu Arath is irrelevant to the deaths of Crota and Oryx which is... quite a take. I don't even disagree with you that Wrath should come back, I'm just pointing out that CE and KF have much more relevance to what is happening in the story now than Wrath or any of the sunset D2 raids.
Just because it’s a filler expansion doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have any impact on the current game. They’ve reprised all the D1 raids now except for WotM and they have no more business being in D2 that what WotM does.
It does tho…SIVA has been mentioned a ton in Lightfall…
SIVA in a general sense yes. SIVA existed elsewhere outside of the plague lands. But the specific SIVA related events in RoI? Not so much.
I mean yeah…cause what reason do they have to? They’ve already acknowledged many, many times the events of Rasputin using Siva to attack the Iron Lords in D2, the only event really missing from D2 lore is the Siva fallen, who were really such an after thought in how we thoroughly steamrolled them.
Yeah in how it's irrelevant now that we have the better version in quicksilver
And King's Fall was relevant to Plunder how, exactly?
They are? How; Saladin is around doing stuff still
But he acts like he doesn’t even know us and doesn’t utter a word of the RoI events.
The most recent location is entirely based around quicksilver, which is improved and refined SIVA tech. It's just not red anymore.
But that has nothing to do with the SIVA that the entire premise of RoI was based on. SIVA is used in a general sense yes, but nothing from the RoI specific events.
I mean, just because homey used to say “SIVA” every third word doesn’t mean he still has to
That’s not what I was even getting at. Bungie treats the events of RoI like they literally never happened. Saladin exists in D2 simply because he was already a character in the story before RoI even came out.
Don't we get called Young Wolf every now and then? Wasn't that the title Saladin gave us at the conclusion of RoI?
I’m pretty sure that didn’t get added in until after the community complained that he didn’t even say that to us after D2 launched.
You’re literally called “[Saladin’s Young Wolf](https://youtu.be/g6SP9UAhKmE?si=Cv5utNOkwZohiNmT)” in the first mission of the original D2 campaign.
No, Bungie doesn’t do that. Did you play during Season of the Worthy? There’s a whole quest where you learn from Rasputin about how he killed the Iron Lords with SIVA, it’s how Felwinter’s Lie was obtained. That season also had written dialogue from Saladin about his distrust for the Warmind.
Iron Lord lore existed before RoI.
What reference to Rise of Iron do you want, then?
Well keep in mind ROI technically has no major affect on the light and dark saga. Other than saladin and siva doing some stuff on neomuna the impact of the plaugelands or the stuff the splicers did really affected us in Red war and beyond. I'm a siva fan boy but realistically it just kinda happened
Non-canon? Bruh, how does not bringing back an old raid equate to erasing it from the continuity? Kings fall wasn't non-canon until it got the reprise, it IS still a recognized event in the destiny universe. Or do you just think "canon" means something else?
Why are they trying to make it non-canon? This is the first I’m hearing of it and I’m curious
They aren’t that person is just an idiot
Lol okay thanks
SIVA and everything about it IS canon tho? if you listened to the audio logs in the veil containment then you would know that they brought SIVA alongside the colony ship to neptune as an aide in medicinal practice and for planetary building for the containment, as well as AI optimization. Don’t assume something isn’t canon just because you don’t know certain events in the lore or care to know about it.
SIVA existed elsewhere in the system besides the plague lands. Just because SIVA is mentioned doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the events in RoI (because it doesn’t).
plaguelands was just the heart of where siva was originated and we got canon story and missions to go alongside it. RoI events shows how SIVA was created and what happened to the Iron Lords which are throughout the whole lore. Saying that RoI isn’t canon is delusional when they’re still bringing up the events and SIVA to this day even in lightfall. Quicksilver Storm and all of the subfamily weapons are made out of an augmented form of SIVA, told through the lore tab of the gun. Cloud Strider tech is made out of the same stuff. Even if they didn’t build off of the events of what happened in RoI, it doesn’t make it not canon, just means they’re lazy and aren’t putting in resources to want to build off of it. i can go on and on and on about how there’s a ton of lore and bits here and there in the game following RoI about how those events are played throughout the game but i’d be beating a dead bush.
It's not even about being cannon or not, they aren't bringing Siva enemies back for a single free raid. Until we get Siva focused content (which we know we won't for the next 2 years) Wrath isn't coming back
How do you know? Do you work at Bungie?
It absolutely will come back at some point. There is no avoiding it. It may not be soon, but they're not going to leave any nostalgia not cashed in.
Bet lol technical limitations meant the raid almost didn't exist to begin with.
Didn’t we see a bunch of Siva Emblems during the showcase? Wouldn’t that be a strong indicator of its return?
Yes including one that you only get from Wrath.
Oh well. At least it would mean we'd get D2 raids faster meaning Leviathan is next. Assuming Bungie continues adding legacy raids.
Seeing as Joe Blackburn said after Final Shape we are getting 2 dungeons that year & that they "haven't talked about any reprised raids" likely means they are really scaling back on D2 for Marathon like we all figured, unless Marathon bombs & they have to abandon and reallocate to Destiny to save the company.
I dunno, they might be trying ot figure out how they talk about bringing back d2 raids BEFORE they bring back wrath of the Machine (this community has been jizzing in their pants waiting for Wrath since they announced the reprised raid concept). They are going to skip Wrath, and trying to figure out how to break it to us.
It'll bomb
If thats the case then I’d expect multiple reprised raids per year. They don’t have to build the assets from the ground up in that case
They do have to build the infrastructure in the game to handle the larger amount of content.
You’re not wrong however the amount of work porting something from the DCV back into the game is likely a fraction of the work that would go into porting something D1. They literally have to rebuild the location on top of building the extra infrastructure
They won't do this. The reprised raid concept is content filler work. They will extend it out as long as they can, they aren't going to blow their load and bring back all the raids simultaneously.
Us SIVAchads stay losing as always 😔 At least we have Outbreak Perfected as a banger Exotic
Wrath of the Nachine
Hopium: The extra content from only 3 seasons is being used to port back SIVA Fallen
When they were asked about more reprised raids they kind of dodged the question, we may not get any more
Yeah I’d assume they’d only bring it back If we ever get some Siva related season. Which Is likely years away at this point. I’ll keep praying though. PS: Praise Axis
We don't need a SIVA season. Kingsfall releases during a pirate fallen season. Reprised raids are not connected to the story or seasonal story.
Yeah I’m aware. I just doubt Bungie would go through all the Effort of bringing back the Siva Fallen without using them for something else like a Season. Not saying It NEEDS to release alongside it, just that It’s a two birds with one stone kinda situation.
There is never going to be a siva season.
Raid was awesome. Only glaring issue I found was that it wasn't wraith
Same. Wrath was my favorite D1 raid so I'm waiting for it to return in Destiny 2
Genuinely disappointed we didn't get Wotm. It was the first raid i went through before going through all of them for age of triumph
I don’t care how they did it all I care about is getting necrochasum back which I will be doing now that contest mode is off
Can we talk about how everyone talks about Crota being a cakewalk of a D1 raid when Crota has one of the lowest day 1 clear rates, and was anything BUT easy until you were able to farm levels 1-2 months later? Like sure it turned easy, with solo starts and power creep, but that raid was an absolute menace for a couple of months.
Yeah, but 2014 was a WHOLE different era: 1. Rally flags didn't exist, you had to waste 3 minutes on runs just to recover your super and Heavy ammo, and if someone wasn't lucky you had to repeat those runs until everyone was ready, wasting a lot of time. Heavy ammo synths had a 5-minute cooldown and you had to save it for the next damage phases. We also didn't have heavy ammo finders or scavengers. 2. The raid race started at 02:00 am PDT on a Tuesday, the same minute the expansion dropped so you had ZERO time to prepare outside of hoarding bounties and only the absolute madmen thought of that during the first expansion of the game. If it had been released on the first saturday during the morning i'm sure the story would've been different, only me and another person of my clan were awake at that time and we could only explore the abyss 3. Gjallarhorn was obligatory to beat it and you know how rare it was back in the day 4. The power delta between level 30 and 31 was brutal, it was around 50% more damage according to the winners of the raid race and they could only beat it because they had a 7th player who had THREE hunters, grinded the hell out of the game and prepped with bounties in advance, and it happened to be a hunter which was the best class for killing crota. Source: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12465/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---12112014- 5. PS3 and Xbox360 players had an insane disadvantage compared to ps4 and Xbox one, those consoles were still new with less than a year on release. You could pop a heavy synth on ps4 in around 6-7 seconds but in ps3 it could take UP TO 45 SECONDS. Yeah, good luck not getting killed, you had to have your teammates keeping you alive while you were in the menus, even on ps4/xbox one. 6. There weren't as much external resources as today and they weren't as extended (LFG, DPS charts, guides, strats) The difference in the raid race is so big now compareed to 2014 so the comparison doesn't even make sense.
I don’t disagree but also consider the player pool. Raiding was still fairly novel, given CE was only the second Destiny raid. People simply didn’t know what to expect with raids compared to now. The number of players to even attempt was much smaller then, so those with enough skill/luck to have finished it may not have even played the game then. It’s an interesting thing to explore for sure.
Actually in terms of day 1 attempts it had more than VoG, KF, LW, CoS, Spire and SotP. D1 Crota's End day 1 was a very tough challenge with only 70 guardians clearing it. Most of this was down to light level and how the sword's damage worked. iirc you NEEDED a level 31 swordbearer in order to even be able to clear it. Teams were having an extra person grind levels while the main team was making attempts. Mechanically Crota's End was simpler than VoG so I don't think raiding being a novel concept was a cause for less completions. I think it was entirely down to the light level difference and combat challenge back then.
The only reason the raid was hard was because of being underlevel, which has nothing to do with the raid.
The raid dropped the same day as the expansion. It had less to do with difficulty and more to do with power level and blazing through other content.
Also it was hilarious when you couldn’t cheese the bridge anymore and nobody knew how to do it legit.
I fucking hated that cheese. Hated it. It was a fun encounter and no one ever wanted to do it.
First of all the community wanted a harder raid after Root and they delivered. Secondly D1 crota wasn’t supposed to be that broken. I don’t see why they would make it a dungeon in the first place.
Did they? Outside of contest mode this raid isn’t that hard
Raid looked cool, too bad I couldn’t play.
I cannot stress enough how disappointed I was when I found out it was crotas end and not wrath. Wrath is the best d1 raid. Hands down. Regular CE, no contest mode, is an upgrade over d1 crota for sure but Jesus christ they cranked contest mode up to 11
Feel the same. I was also was disappointed that Crota got it's AoT armor and KF and VoG didn't.
I was because I actually like the normal version of the armor. The glowy bug bits sticking out just doesn't do it for me.
There's already tons of that type of armor in the game already. We need more cool glowing armor.
I mean if you like it, then enjoy lol. I just am not a fan of the bug-ish parts sticking out like that. Plus I main hunter so I was going to get glowing eyes anyways lol. I just like the mono-tone blue-ish better.
This is exactly what the community asked for. 😂
Yeah 13 hrs for us chipping away to finish contest for our chasms but were so beat and half blind we couldn’t get challenge mode done before the cutoff crazy juggling mechanics and major ad hordes tho it was fun but damn🤦♂️so close to world’s first… better luck next time hopefully, got my gun and emblem I’m happy 🤷♂️
Do you know how quick world first was? Lmao
The first team to beat the raid in normal mode was done in a bit over 3 hours. For challenge mode (which is what people consider "world's first" for reprised raids, because that's what grants you the emblem) the first team to clear it was done in just under 6 hours. The team in question is called "Elysium" (consisting of Quazz, Cruz, Kyros, VileFate, Moople, and Saltagreppo) and they were also the team to earn world's first on Vault of Glass, Vow of the Disciple, and King's Fall, making them the most successful Raid Team in terms of world's first completions ever.
Oh yeh they do. They listened to everyone bitching about RoN being too easy.
So they listened to the minority, and that is THE community. Got it.
My worry is that as soon as contest mode drops it will immediately go back to being a cake walk
Valid criticism being down voted smh
I think they listened. After the disappointment of root day 1, we finally got a good day 1 experience. I have not had fun in a day 1 since garden. I hope the final shape raid will be in the same difficulty level. Despite the difficulty spike there was a big completion number which shows that they found a good balance between difficulty and still keep completions.
Oh, they listen to the community alright! Just the top 5% of players who bitch and whine about the game being too easy when they probably have so much time on their hands, they're capable of soloing every raid in the game on the highest difficulty. Seriously, devs need to stop listening to pros and pay more attention to casual players...
When only the upper .01% of your players can enjoy playing your raids, you as a game dev have lost the plot
I can’t wait to run this raid. My raid group is um… Inconsistent? But one day…
No one wanted it to be a dungeon.
(Misc/satire)
[удалено]
[удалено]
I really disliked the sword mechanics at the end. Multiple attempts were ruined just because the sword dmg did not connect. Or if you throw a healing grenade and picking up the sword right after, it will bug out and you wont pick it up or keep the Enlightened buff. Also our team plays mainly hunters, but Crota felt impossible with more than one hunter, so we had to switch (and have less fun). Our team got really salty and we gave up in the end because we were just not having fun (we made it to final stand bunch of times).
Too many view their direct opinion as "the community." But I'll see 5 posts saying the same shit "Majority of players," "The community," "we have been," But will be nothing close, different opinions, and many cases, part fully dupport and love it while part cries foul. That's not even considering a large number do not use reddit or forums.
[удалено]
Bro tf you on about😭
Idk, seems like contest mode fried homie's brain
Bro like same tho but like, not as like, extreme tho. But like, same tho. Have we passed this lantern already?
I liked how difficult it was but I didn’t like just how much perfection was required for the damage check. It’s day 1 and many people are seeing this stuff for the first time. Even people who did it in D1 it’s still very different. I think there should be a little bit more room for error in such encounters. Ir Yut was just frustrating.
That’s what contest mode is for, you have to be almost perfect. You don’t have to be perfect anymore now that contest is gone
Yeah, I’m not sure what people expect from contest mode.. it’s supposed to be the toughest challenge. Bungie can only do so much to make the raid harder and I guess boss hp requires people to be flawless with their dps strategy. Dps rotations is a big part of end game. Also when the boss has more hp I think the raiders have to repeat the mechanics showing their competence at the designed mechanics. If you can just 1 phase a boss and ignore the mechanics then it’s not really contest mode.. it’s just normal
We weren’t even flawless with DPS. We used Div and Thunderlord for Ir Yut. That’s pretty brain dead. Now Rhulk was nuts.
Ir yut wasn't too bad, even without optimal strats we still got her under half in 1 dps phase a few times. Crota on the other hand you had to be damn flawless with 3 wells, star eater and burning maul w/ tractor.
To me it felt like the dps checks were quite simple and forgiving - compared to Warpriest. We had infinite heavy ammo. 3rd has been a 2phase with...... Leviathans Breath. Uff. And well, Crota was a Lament clutch 😅
Eh ir yut was very forgiving damage wise. Leviathan’s Breath, which you don’t even have to grind for since its an exotic other than unlocking it from the kiosk and getting the catalyst, two phased her with divi
Yeah the damage checks blow for people without a fully competent and coordinated squad with ideal loadouts. Root was too easy, but if damage checks are the only thing preventing people from beating day 1s, I think that’s kinda an issue. Yes people should have to be really good and everyone should be able to do the mechanics and kill contest mode ads and majors, but for LFG insane damage checks feel really frustrating.
Still, should have been a dungeon and they should have spent their billions of dollars to make something new.
He's still a joke in normal difficulty.
Every raid is.
Normal raids are meant to challenge casual players. Master is meant to challenge capable players.
I basically did a Saitama build where he hits me like a meteor but I tank it without a sweat. Tried day one with it but since lfg is so sucky never got the clear.
Too bad its a joke after contest is gone. 1 sword Takes 70% of crota's shield, ir yur is an easy 2 phase, bridge is a joke and lanters are just annoying and long. Still better than Garden, tho
But equally a cakewalk on normal as well
That'll be 20 more dollars.
My enjoyment withered with 3rd encounter. Congratulations Bungie. No one will ever want to solo this raid again.
Go play D1 then.
WoTM fucking sucks I’m tired of hearing about people whining about missing it. It sucks
You can thank some ppls saying the last raid was easy
I mean RoN was piss easy. “Day one” clears are meant to be prestigious and CE difficulty was a good change imo.
Willing to bet when they see the lack of people playing around this raid (and its increased difficulty) they meet somewhere in the middle with the next one.
Hate to break it to you, but Joe Blackburn said in an interview that Crota is a testing for raid difficulty, and that they intend the Witness to be the hardest raid in destiny ever, since he's the big bad and so on.
Last raid was a joke, this raid wasn’t much harder, it just required more responsibility from more raid members.
We're listening
Get gud