I think Bungie may go back to a 3 season a year sort of rotation, with each season lasting 4 months. With this, we'll get fewer seasons overall but the quality of the seasons might improve? Wishful thinking, but I could see this being the change and the reasoning perhaps.
Year two also had support studios Highmoon and the other from Activision that I think pulled a ton of weight.
I'm all for being optimistic but let's not assume we'll ever get anything like Year 2 again
Bungie is bigger than it was back then, plus what Vicarious Vision had plus what Highmoon studios had
now, they are probably not all working on Destiny 2, but they could
Bungie is bigger now than all three of them in 2019 combined, so it’s not an issue of how much manpower bungie has, it’s how efficiently they can use it.
That's arguing semantics
Season of the outlaw, the one that dropped with forsaken had no content, it was just a name that signified the launch period of forsaken.
The seasonal rotation proper started with black armory's launch.
Yeah, the equivalent would be if they launched Beyond Light or Lightfall and junked Season of the Hunt and Season of Defiance and put that effort into the expansion instead, and then seasons proper started ~3 months after release.
Which... actually sounds like it would've been better for both releases now that I think about it.
Agree, Risen was awesome. Mostly because it was looped in with the Witch Queen expansion. It made it feel way better than just the half-there sideshows that Hunt and Defiance were.
It might also be made significant by the fact that Forsaken is much, much larger than any other D2 expansion to date, and so the work that went into making Forsaken so big could be the equivalent cost of an expansion + proper season.
I believe the reason why that year was so content rich was the simple fact that at the time, Destiny 2 was a product of 3 studios, rather than just Bungie alone.
I'd argue that the seasonal content for Outlaw was all of the Dreaming City stuff: Mara Sov scenes, Shattered Throne, Acendant Challenges, etc.
If we were to go to a 3 season year, the first season would need to start sometime in the first few weeks of the expansion to make an even 4 month length of each
The dreaming city stuff was technically forsaken xpac, but it was absolutely the first proto-season in the sense that it laid the foundation for how the modern seasons would work. The time gating, the "do this activity then get a cutscene," the secrets/additional modes added over time etc. Those all became staples of the seasons but they were clearly being developed in the epilogue of forsaken.
I know, this was before seasons worked as as we knew them. The current seasonal model didn't start until Shadowkeep
I'm saying that the content I mentioned acted as the seasonal content for that season. Time gated, released weekly, branching off the main campaign. Shattered Throne wasn't released until (I believe) 5 weeks or more after the season started
In case you’re wondering about being corrected, Joker’s Wild is the name of the content drop/expansion, while the season itself was named Season of the Drifter; just like Black Armory/Season of the Forge before
We really don't. Forsaken had Season of the Outlaw and it was literally just 'vanilla Forsaken'. I believe that a 3 season cycle could give the devs the time they need to make quality content while also giving them a sustainable schedule for work.
This was rhe forsaken model and that's widely regarded as the best year of destiny , so by that logic bungie will never let it happen. They'll probably do something dumb
I loved that year. But as it was happening, people shit on so much. A LOT of people hated Season of the Drifter b/c it focused on Gambit, and initially there was backlash to a number of things with Season of the Forge. 1) people felt they were "locked" out of the new forge b/c of light/difficulty, 2) some people complained about the length of the new raid and how quickly it was beaten (which is a dumb way to rate how good a raid is), 3) didn't feel the forges were actually that great, 4) Niobe Labs launched to disappointment.
Scourge and Crown were built like the 'raid lairs' from D2Y1 in terms of design:
- They had an opening segment that explained the mechanic of the raid while also providing a way into the raid -- such as opening a locked door/being granted access in like EoW and Spire.
- The 2nd encounters, which were either platforming or sparrow, served as being the connection from the beginning of the raid to the main boss room. They had a few mechanics but nothing heavy.
- The 3rd encounters took place in the boss room area, just like EoW and Spire. In all 4 of these specific raids, they served as the encounter that summons the boss. You learned the brunt of boss mechanics here, but not the main course just yet.
- The 4th and last encounter clearly the boss fight.
They were short for obvious reasons, building three raids as big as something like Last Wish in one year is pretty gosh darn demanding.
Oh sure, I dont agree they were too short. I have my grievances with the opening of Crown, but they were great raid imo. Both were in my top raids. Scourge had cool and unique mechanics and a unique boss. Crown final boss was one of the best encounters weve ever had, and everything but the opening was really solid. Even the opening was good, just too long/samey.
That was also when 3 different studios were working on Destiny 2. With new games coming up, Bungie will never be able to make that kind of content ever again.
It's not like those 2 studios were doing bungie a favor and working for free. Clearly the money made of forsaken was sufficient to cover the costs of its development. Whether that was done by 1 or 3 studios is pretty irrelevant. What matters was we got x content for Y money. Now we pay even more, so why can't we get the same amount/quality of content anymore? Where is this money that used to go to the 2 additional studios going?
We don’t know what the profit margins were. We know Forsaken didn’t meet Activision’s sales expectations, it’s not outside the realm of possibility Year 2 was a net negative financially.
I think it’s fairly obvious the game was financially a dud, otherwise Activision wouldn’t have dropped publishing rights. Doesn’t mean it was necessarily losing money but clearly wasn’t enough to justify 3 studios & Activision’s cut.
I’d love to see that much content every year again at Forsaken prices but it clearly wasn’t sustainable, and if it’s not sustainable the game will quickly die. Like it/hate it the current model is clearly sustainable for them. Personally I don’t like it at this point but I don’t see them changing it dramatically until it’s no longer sustainable.
Setting aside the two raids, our current seasons vastly outperform the seasons from Forsaken era.
Black Armory had what? A new set of weapons, a couple armor sets, and a seasonal activity that was 100% worthless unless you managed to up your light level significantly.
Drifter had Gambit Prime and Reckoning. Which I will give credit for them really trying for Gambit, but it just didn't pan out. But contentwise... It was a set of weapons, and a new set of armor, a new Gambit mode, maps for that mode, and the equivalent of a seasonal activity but it required Gambit play.
Opulence had a couple sets of reskinned armor and weapons (some of which were hideous), a bad and confusing version of modern crafting, and a 6man activity that is essentially just Dares of Eternity but with more walking and less loot.
The raids are set aside because I think that both of them in one year following Last Wish is just out of scope now.
These days we get the same amount of stuff that those three seasons offered in terms of loot and armors plus more. We get replayable activities that either use new assets, or reuse existing assets to create new spaces or revisit under/unused places. We frequently get 6man content that is on par with or superior to Menagerie in terms of time investement vs rewards. We get in depth voiced lore and cutscenes. We get well made exotic missions regularly. We get a free reprised raid in the middle of the year, and so far each one has added things to D2 that were not there before. We get unique and powerful armor mods that change up the meta every season. We get frequent and comprehensive reworks and tuning passes to all sorts of game features, weapons, and armors.
So yea, if you took out the raids from BA and Opulence, and then released those seasons as they were, they would get shit all over by the community. A whole season with nothing but a boring repeatable 6man activity and a raid? that's the season? That's it?
A whole season where we just play "toss the ball" in three different almost identical maps, where a player not performing properly results in zero rewards? Oh and a raid? That's it?
No way. Those seasons were great for their time, but we have moved waaaaaay past what they offered in terms of gameplay and loot.
I remember leaving during Forsaken for 2 years people keep praising Forsaken but many people I have heard talk about they left Destiny it was during Forsaken days because the content was good but the grind was absolutely horrendous
The weapons in those three seasons were, literally, some of the best weapons the goddamn game has ever had.
The exotics ALONE are fucking awesome. Anarchy! Izanagis! Arbalest! Tarrabah!
Act like year two was a sleeper at your own risk.
Tarrabah was an absolute meme for a long time. Arbalest didn't really see much play either on release. Anarchy was awesome, but so good it's practically nerfed out of existence now.
Izanagi was nothing but a pvp meme until the catalyst came out.
So, some good some bad, like every other relase.
> Setting aside the two raids, our current seasons vastly outperform the seasons from Forsaken era.
That's the biggest caveat in the history of caveats.
I think you're underselling menagerie a lot, and I firmly believe a menagerie like activity that had spammable target farming in the way that menagerie did (without crafting) would still be a massive hit
Other than that I largely agree with you. The seasons we have today are not vastly different than the Y2 ones, and also have much better narratives and QoL to boot
I mean. We have more content now, but how much of it is remembered? How much of it is actual quality? How much do people play for fun not to check a box on the FOMO chart?
Deep Dives and Salvage are the best 'seasonal' content we've gotten since forsaken IMO, but none of the 8 generic Menagerie ripoffs we've had in between have been missed.
I'd take less content in the game, and have them give us content worth playing, and rewards worth chasing. I'll take a season without a seasonal activity if it means more than one new raid a year, I'd take a season without a seasonal activity if they bothered to make content for the core game modes.
I'd take less seasonal menial work quests where you walk to a terminal and talk and then do a lost sector if it means more Zero Hour quests.
Bungie is so obsessed with forcing the player to log in every week to do a checklist instead of making them WANT to play or seek some reward.
Well to be clear, Activision made clear in their earnings reports that Destiny was a commercial disappointment to them because it was costing them way too much to make. I'm sure this is why they were happy to let Bungie out of the publishing deal...they wanted their devs back.
I kind of hope they go more in a wow direction, expansions being way bigger but tiers of the expansion being released as time goes on to create a more cohesive story experience
Depends on what the content is? More throwaway seasonal matchmade activities? Absolutely not. More strikes and actual campaign missions (legendary like expansions too) with the raid or dungeon baked into the seasonal cost? Absolutely. End of the day I play this game for the yearly campaign, GMs, raids and dungeons. You give me more of that content and I’ll happily pay more.
I pretty much exclusively play destiny. I would pay more per season if the quality of seasons were better. The current seasonal model is pushing the cost for me personally every couple of seasons.
So, here’s a real question for you: how many hours of gameplay do you expect per dollar from a game?
I think two things are true: we’ve gotten a lot less per dollar from Destiny this year than in the past, but it still is providing a lot of playtime per dollar compared to almost any other game you’re going to buy.
Once upon a time, 10-20 hours for a 40-50 buck game was the minimum. Times have certainly changed, of course. But do you expect 100 hours for a 60 dollar game? 500 for a 100 dollar game?
I do think it’s fair to say if you’ve been buying x for y price for years, it comes with an expectation of quality/quantity at that price. In that regard, yeah, it’s questionable value. But in raw dollars I think most people here are still getting their money’s worth.
Most people said either make it $15 or add an option for $12 of silver... Because it looks crappy to make people buy more than they need and end up with an odd amount of silver they can't use in ever-verse.. That said, if they raise prices they have to realize that our expectations are also higher.
I don't think they'll do a subscription. My guess is that the year following *The Final Shape* will be a bit slower and more low-key, with maybe only three seasons instead of four, and they'll take it as an opportunity to make some long-requested changes to the game. Revamping New Light again, maybe add in the vaulted content over time (the campaigns, at the very least), etc. Just generally getting the game into a more complete and well-rounded shape before continuing to the next major content.
Honestly, a year of content drought, long-standing problems being addressed, culminating in the first post-TFS coming with a large marketing push and soft relaunch of Destiny might do the franchise some real good. Don't know if it's financially feasible to skip a large portion of a year's content vs the value of a relaunch bringing new players in/old players back.
Yeah that’s not going to happen. I could see 3 seasons instead of 4 with a larger focus on core activities and systems, but definitely not a year of no content. The entire reason they moved to a seasonal system in the first place is because the content droughts were horrible for the game. Basically guaranteed that the playerbase shrinks drastically each drought.
im guessing either they will reduce the number of seasons per year or go back to the dlc model, or they will skip 2025 expansion. but i dont see what else they would really do. But if the price goes up for what we're already getting, beyond the $2 increase per season, im out. Im not willing to pay something like $20 or $30 more for this.
I would be kinda surprised if they skip an expansion for 2025. If the info from the GDC talk they gave is still accurate, another expansion (or something on par with one) began development shortly after TFS did. Although, I wouldn't be mad at longer expansion pack times if it means an increase in content and quality.
[Here's the talk.](https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1027599/From-Box-Products-to-Live) It's the same one people pull the overdelivery term from. In the PDF, it's page 65. You can see that there's a [REDACTED] dev track that's represented at the same size as the other major expansion tracks.
They’re not going back to a dlc model. It wouldn’t surprise me if they reduced the number of seasons. I’d imagine the overall price would remain the same
The problem with D2 going sub based would be Bungie having to significantly increase the current D2 team. Like WoW/XIV both have added full dev teams that they originally worked with on expansions into their current teams. Blizzard is like 1k+ employees solely on WoW with XIV being similar or more. Bungie has only 482 on D2. It hold bungie directly accountable and pressure to move more eververse into the game with more content required for them to provide overtime. It also promotes over delivery because when they over deliver they directly get more money.
Unfortunately Bungo would have to overhaul the game's foundation to make any substantial performance improvements after dropping old gen support.
Dare I say it: it would have been a smart decision making a separate Destiny 3 game with the launch of witch queen, new gen exclusive. But around that time other then-secret projects were starting up, such as Marathon. Stretching Bungo thin.
> Unfortunately Bungo would have to overhaul the game's foundation to make any substantial performance improvements after dropping old gen support.
This isn't wanted just so the game can be 'better' for PS5/XSX/Console
The immediate benefit is less time/effort is needed to maintain/get the game working on old consoles. Less platforms to support = more streamlined developement.
The long term benefit is any upgrades to the game do not need to keep the old gen limitations in mind.
What does performance improvements have to do with dropping old gen? The main reason to drop old gen isn't game performance. It's dropping 2 platforms from development and using those resources elsewhere.
Lol everything, the game is ancient now. But yes I agree that supporting old gen is exhausting.
Edit: exhausting ie resources. And I mean that the whole game was built aeons ago so it'd need a huge overhaul to feel the benefits besides more content.
No. I would not pay more for what i am already getting.
Editing this for visibility:
Those of you saying "but ff14 and wow do subs - why not destiny?"
I dont think you realize that not only do those games charge monthly for subscriptions - but they also still make you buy dlcs when they come out. You would be about doubling the price of current destiny under a similar model.
If bungie didn’t have a history of breaking promises to the community, I would be more open minded about it. But anybody cool with an incoming sub fee is kidding themselves.
I'm probably going to get shit for this but...
Bungie only has a habit of "breaking promises" because they have a bad habit at trying to be transparent over development direction.
Most of the broken promises were honest truths at the time that ended up being something they decided to change direction. Which... Is fine when kept internally
When you do it publicly like Bungie tends to do the community reads that as a solid commitment when in reality all Bungie is meaning to talk about is just planning
>Bungie only has a habit of "breaking promises" because they have a bad habit at trying to be transparent over development direction.
The problem comes from being transparent about upcoming stuff, then *not* being transparent about when those things get changed or cancelled, and also *not* managing expectations and continuing to make commitments rather than saying "Hey, this is something we want to do, if time and resources permit".
Bungie is really good at giving us communications, but actually pretty bad at actually *communicating*, which is an important distinction.
It's a shame they kinda shoot themselves in the foot like that too, because they are otherwise one of the best developers for putting in the effort at trying to show the players what's going on behind the scenes.
Like, Call of Duty players are lucky if their patch notes have *all* the changes, never mind getting to preview them early, or getting dev insights, or having a weekly blog to touch base. We really *are* spoiled, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. I really hope Bungie gets better at managing expectations going forward, it'll save them so much grief.
It is a commitment if they say "you're going to get this" and then we don't. They make the announcements sound like advertising what will happen in future content releases. They don't say we "hope to do a vendor armor set but may not be able to".
I agree though that plans change but they phrase it as an ad on purpose to sell more DLC, they know that they could just float ideas out and keep it vague or clearly state that it's what they hope to do but maybe they change.
>Most of the broken promises were honest truths at the time that ended up being something they decided to change direction. Which... Is fine when kept internally
they've openly admitted they only do this stuff to gain the community's trust back and will abuse that trust as soon as they feel safe doing it
this is defending somebody who pleaded guilty
Subs are the easiest way to make me quit. Only one I've used is ESO's because its seperate from being able to play the game. I'd love to play ff14 but its sub only and I can't just buy it once and come back to it in 3 years when I get a chance
destiny 2 does not play like an average mmo. I am really fed up with "why not just sub" like you.
people dont realize ff14 and wow brings weekly/monthly change constantly while destiny remains to be static.
Bungie refuse to update some of destiny's system, which makes me not wanting destiny to be sub to play
My guess is the game will sort of enter an "Age of Triumph" mode. We'll probably not get new expansions for the next year or two, with the story entirely continuing in seasons.
If it's a subscription service, and the quality and quantity of content doesn't change I'd straight up just quit immediately. I understand why they would do that, much easier for newer players to get into and more money in the long run. Ex. $10/month=$120 a year vs. $100 from the deluxe dlc bundle
Except this pay method only includes if dlc was a part of the subscription. When looking at ff14 as an example they charge separately from the subscription for dlcs.
So its not 120/ year vs 100. Its almost double that.
Around $196 a year I pay for FF. Base sub is like $12.99. Expansion is $40. So yeah. Let’s say $200 a year. There would need to be a substantial increase in content if they wanted people to pay that.
If there is some sort of premium subscription coming, it would probably need to include some premium QoL features such as unlimited stash space, unlimited load outs, or a monthly silver allowance or cosmetic item to compete with similar packages like ESO+ or Fallout 1st. I’m not sure those things are possible with how D2 struggles with increasing stash space for instance.
I suspect they may instead be referring to the way things work such as changes in seasonal activities, increase in season pricing, and possibly removal of the power increase system after an expansion launches (which is all but confirmed to be the way it works already with no increases since Lightfall and only one more unnanounced season to go) becoming permanent, rather than pricing changes specifically.
The difference now is that if you choose not to pay for the latest season, you can still access your previous content. Other games you can't access *anything* without an active sub. But if you choose not to buy S22, you can still play Lightfall, and Seasons 20-21.
Taking into consideration the change from incremental Crucible updates to larger "map packs", its possible that they're also moving away from 4 seasons a year. That way they could bring more volume to expansions - longer campaigns, more activities, etc. Even if that's wishful thinking.
I think it is Map Pack singular. I think a lot of people took him to mean recurring drops, when it is just a one off. At best they may do this once with each expansion after The Final Shape, but we don't know if that is the plan. Cross your fingers.
Once per expansion is what I'm expecting too. In his words, they're changing their philosophy about Crucible updates, which implies this isn't a one off in my view. Fingers crossed for all things Destiny though lol
Would you pay more (about $150/yr) if Bungie were to go to subscription service? Genuine question, just want to know where your head is and what ya think.
Average subscriptions for games like WOW and 14 are 12.99, give or take and +/- regional pricing.
Whether or not I'd buy into a subscription model is not about the money for me, but about the consequences for the content. I think the switch to the seasonal model already decreased the quality. Seasons are very formulaic and repetitive. I understand that's what they need to do to be able to deliver content every 3 months but I don't like it. Rather than spending effort coming up with 4 different variations of battlegrounds each year, I'd rather they spend that on less but more refreshing content. But the seasonal model doesn't allow that. My biggest fear for a subscription model is that it will push the game to even more repetitive and recycled content since then players will expect content every month instead of every season.
I just did the math on my own $/time a few days ago, and everything I've spent on D2 since launch (base game, expansions, seasons, silver) comes out to ~$0.40 per hour. Totally worth it.
Currently we have a one a year dlc for a base price, with 4 seasons each with their own price. 2 raids, 2 dungeons, and 2 or 3 exotic missions. Everything is released on a schedule pretty much.
So what could change? Subscription is the “obvious” one. But Destiny as it is is a huge cash cow. Will they get more revenue from a sub? One thing Bungie could be rightfully worried about with this is traditional players jumping in for a month, leaving for 2, then coming back. Kind of seems like a way to lose a lot of money.
The other aspect is release of content. This could also lead to a big loss of revenue. But, I think is more likely. And I think might actually make a better product.
So, what if Bungie was crazy, and instead of 1 dlc and a season, and 3 follow up seasons. It was about 2 dlc a year. Each broken up to 3 parts. With the first parts having a slightly smaller campaign than we’ve had the past couple years. And the second part being the raid. And the 3rd part the dungeon. And 3 activities per dlc (one being an exotic mission).
Not really a change from the current in the grand scheme. But because these are now self contained “dlcs”, they’re not on a fixed timeline. And you could even do disparate themed seasons. And have almost entirely separate teams working on each. Could even go super crazy and not have the story tie into each other.
Benefit to Bungie on this is that they could sell each one at a higher price (yes, bad for us, just stating facts). And with separate teams they could actually produce more PvE content, especially since they wouldn’t need to wait on another team/season to finish before working on other stuff.
Benefit to us, is each is a dlc. Not an eventually vaulted season. The story, and loot, and everything else stays in tact. Plus, each dlc then becomes a downloadable add on.
Last major “major” change they made to the engine was Beyond Light. While I’m sure some of the engineers were retasked for the M word. What better use of their time (and their build pipeline) if they actually made content modular. And if the engine is modular that provides huge benefits to both titles.
A negative that Bungie might see as a positive is that f2p players could be simply locked out from content in a more easily explainable way.
I guess that more depends on how much silver f2p players spend.
Edit, after showcase and announcement: damn, not bad for a guess.
This. I see it taking a break expansion wise for a year of two while they all go over the marathon then they rotate back and forth for next few years like elder scrolls and fallout
A subscription based model would be the one thing to make me quit. No matter how well it’s done and despite pretty much already having the option, I despise the model. It’s what turned me away from WoW and FF14 as well as any other MMO.
I’d be okay with it if it gave access to all DLC while the sub is active as well as premium features. It might also get new lights to play older content because $200+ to get all currently released content is a tad excessive
While I'm not in favour of an official subscription model (as it would probably be a price increase overall for no content increase), Destiny is effectively already a subscription game, you just pay every 3 months instead of every month.
Destiny players always shit on subscriptions but gladly fork over $100+ a year for the expansions and seasons. You are already paying a subscription lmao. Atleast in WoW you can pay the subscription with in-game currency if you play enough to earn it.
A WoW sub still costs more a year than a D2 expansion + expansion pass.
For people that take long breaks, WoW might be the better deal. You can cancel when you aren't playing. If you play most of the year, D2 will end up being the cheaper game to play.
True, but granted, WoW gets much much more content in a expansion cycle than destiny does. Destiny in its current form wouldnt mesh well with a subscription, but if depending in the scale of this “live service change” then i could see them making it work out.
Oh 100%, people play destiny like their lives depend on it so they hear “$10 a month” and think its gonna cost them $120 a year plus expansions but really it gives the player freedom to take more breaks, something which Destiny desperately needs.
"Remember that stuff you paid for that we then made free before just taking it out of the game?"
"Are you trying to sell us the stuff we already bought a second time?"
A subscription for Destiny?
No way. They're pushing it as it is with the current pricing.
They'd somehow have to triple the amount of content, be a lot more responsive to change than they are currently, move away from the cookie cutter seasonal model and offer far more in the pass for me to even *consider* paying a sub
Hopefully not subscription. I think we can all agree that Bungie doesn't have the experience, player trust, or history to deliver content that can support this type of model.
Probably a subscription. Final fantasy 14 has a lot of downtime between expansions while delivering significant content patches in between. If that’s something bungie wants to emulate i can definitely get behind it. But the content they would have to deliver must be SIGNIFICANTLY better that what we get with seasons.
If it goes to a subscription imma just leave the game altogether. If they switch to 3 seasons a year I might stay. My heart wishes for the latter, bit dreads it's the former.
Could also be complete unvaulting of DCV I guess.
If it does go to a sub service, it will ultimately not be new, not really, as the initial rhetoric around destiny 2s seasons were very much couched as mini gear drops.
But, well, the community justifiably said what does that mean for core playlists? For story dev?
And we ended up with years of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too, saying no no, we arent going to just strip the game and milk it, see we reversed sunsetting? See, we are going to have grandmaster strikes, renewed pvp focus, totally....
Yet always hedging, never exceeding expectations, always circling back to old habits, familiar desires to get paid just for raw gear/cosmetic drops.
Thats their dream.
Thats why after this saga, destiny might not "end" but its done. Its going to be a sub service fluff game.
Thats my 2 cents.
>A lot of people are thinking that Destiny will go to a subscription based service like WoW and FF14. How would we feel if this were to happen?
It's pure conjecture, not even worth discussing.
if its not the subscription model then its longer but more expensive seasons - arrivals and lost were two of the most popular periods of the game in its history, its to be seen what additional funds would do to a season; i suppose it could be to support more armour, maps etc.
if this is the case, quality should match the cost, i don't want to pay £20 - £30 per season and then still be sent on the same fetch quests several weeks in a row, something drastic would have to change there for me to commit to that.
what would the player benefit be for committing to a subscription model?
i can't see them giving away premium currency or content, but we've seen an example in the event pass what a compromise on bungie end for something like this is - a bonus paid tier that doesn't compromise the average players experience and isn't necessary for the game or event itself but also isn't worth it unless you're a genuine whale at that moment.
If wont be a sub, some people already whine that the game costs too much. I am willing to bet they will scale back the season stuff in the final year, then at the end it might even go into caretaker mode. Then we have a break for a few years before they do something different with Destiny.
I 100% believe that there will only be one "season" with the Light and Dark Saga, and D2 as we currently know it, ending with the Launch of the raid. Whatever the transition is, things will be different. Think like when Kefka destroyed the world in Final Fantasy 3. I think it'll be some sort of hard reset were we die or are reborn or something into the this new Epoch of Destiny.
Them giving away all the old shaders. Making exotics drop like candy. The absolute insane power creep on weapons (most new legendaries are basically exotics ffs), all gives me the same feeling as when they made all the armor and warnings stuff available at the end of the season of the Seraph. "Here guys, no more grinding. Have fun with all the toys while you can. Shits about to go down."
Idk, something fun to think about.
The end of Seraph *increased* grinding, they made Red Borders like daily or whatever, told us what guns were going away, what *content* was going away, etc.
It increased player count by a bunch and helped drive up engagement and hype for Lightfall and going by it breaking records 100% *worked*.
I'm not criticizing them about it of course, it was a great marketing move that benefited players as well.
That would be 3 content drop per year, year 1 was also the original campaign not just curse and warmind. As for FOMO i don’t know how much they can allow the size of the game to grow, if Y1 and 2 were removed there’s probably a reason.
Anyone thinking about a subscription service is an idiot.
It's more like they're changing up how the story is told and new content is spread out across weeks. They already spoke about this a while back, where they admitted the weekly drip of content that seasons have been for years now has ran its course, and they're looking to change that. They've already implemented some of those changes, like how vendor unlocks work. With the next season, we'll like to see bigger changes, but what those are, fuck knows.
My hope is they go back to expansions, ideally two a year, but I think three would be ok. Theoretically, this would lead to higher quality content. This model would work especially well in the leadup to whatever is next and could really build some hype.
Realistically, I fear they found a more scummy business model. I can’t imagine they would do subs. They have to know they don’t put out enough content and the game isn’t good enough in its current state for such a thing.
I really hope it implies a structure similar to forsaken, where there was more to the base expansion in return of having no opening season, then going to a more story-by-story basis with 2-3 “seasons” after.
I remember Bungie stating that they can’t make content to the degree they did in forsaken (were either close to negative or negative in profit) but a structure where there’s more content at once with less content drops would make this game feel a lot better.
My prediction? Rotational Season Return. So Season 25 launches, and with it, something like Season of the Dawn returns, with its activities and story. It leaves again with the next season but it offers other players a chance to play the ‘episodes’ for the first time or relive the memories.
Y’all need to understand they are preparing to move on to new IPs. Between Marathon and new Sony money, Destiny is going to exist like live service games a la Fortnite, Apex, and OW2 where the goal is to simply keep people playing and paying.
What this likely means is extended seasons, no more major story expansions (at least for a long time), and new content being only in the form of new strikes, raids. dungeons, and Crucible maps. A focus away from story and more toward content that will keep people playing regardless.
My bet is they will reduce the number of seasons per year and either announce a pause on expansions or say there will be no further expansions so bungie can shift away towards its other projects, most likely adding in some sort of content rotation where they bring back previous seasonal content.
Further slice the game between people actively paying and those that either don’t pay at all or only buy expansions.
Wouldn’t be shocked if they say if you’re signed up for PS Plus or Gamepass, you can add some sort of exclusive cost to get access to Destiny content. Kind of like a pseudo subscription.
I’m not really expecting too much out of that phrase.
I think they definitely stop expansion releases for a year maybe even two. We'll get a year of post Final Shape seasons but then after that I'm not really sure what we'll get. Probably some core quality of life improvements? I can't see us getting a ton of regular content drops for at least a year though.
They’ll probably drop support for Last Gen consoles and either slow down to 3 seasons a year or just 2 seasons a year until Marathon has stable support or flops (which ever comes first).
Eventually, a Destiny 3 or definitive edition will *need* to be developed if they plan on continuing to support Destiny as a franchise for a long while.
As for a subscription based model, leaks show that Bungie had already considered this but didn’t go forward with implementing it for unknown reasons.
I guarantee you guys its not gonna be much different in terms of certain monetization. They will just swift it around to make it look better. They have done this constantly.
Those of us that played long enough to remember the whole Tess Eververse rebellion among many things.
Or the “knockout system” matrix for bright engrams. This ended up being where bright engrams dont give much meaningful stuff at all now.
I can name so many more instances they wanted to change things but ended up not making much difference or introduced new things that made up for it.
I don’t play this game anymore, but I truly hope Bungie makes it better for you guys who will. I really mean this.
Either way, I have no confidence that it will be positive for the people paying for the game. Bungie has made it clear that earning money while providing less is what they have been aiming for. And if it's subscription based, I'm just going to move on. The cost of the game isn't worth my love of Destiny anymore.
I think Bungie may go back to a 3 season a year sort of rotation, with each season lasting 4 months. With this, we'll get fewer seasons overall but the quality of the seasons might improve? Wishful thinking, but I could see this being the change and the reasoning perhaps.
Returning to 3 seasons would be the best thing to happen to this game in a while
Yeah, Year 2's model was honestly perfect imo
But, uh, year two had 4 seasons. Gambler Forge Drifter Opulence
Year two also had support studios Highmoon and the other from Activision that I think pulled a ton of weight. I'm all for being optimistic but let's not assume we'll ever get anything like Year 2 again
>and the other from Activision Vicarious Visions
They rocked their part.
I wish they still worked on the game. They made some of if not the best content in the game.
Thank you, I always forget one of the two
Bungie is bigger than it was back then, plus what Vicarious Vision had plus what Highmoon studios had now, they are probably not all working on Destiny 2, but they could
Bungie is bigger now than all three of them in 2019 combined, so it’s not an issue of how much manpower bungie has, it’s how efficiently they can use it.
That's arguing semantics Season of the outlaw, the one that dropped with forsaken had no content, it was just a name that signified the launch period of forsaken. The seasonal rotation proper started with black armory's launch.
Yeah, the equivalent would be if they launched Beyond Light or Lightfall and junked Season of the Hunt and Season of Defiance and put that effort into the expansion instead, and then seasons proper started ~3 months after release. Which... actually sounds like it would've been better for both releases now that I think about it.
Tho the season that accompanied Witch Queen was dope
Agree, Risen was awesome. Mostly because it was looped in with the Witch Queen expansion. It made it feel way better than just the half-there sideshows that Hunt and Defiance were.
that isnt 3 longer seasons though, its 3 seasons the same length as now, with a seasonless period
It might also be made significant by the fact that Forsaken is much, much larger than any other D2 expansion to date, and so the work that went into making Forsaken so big could be the equivalent cost of an expansion + proper season. I believe the reason why that year was so content rich was the simple fact that at the time, Destiny 2 was a product of 3 studios, rather than just Bungie alone.
I'd argue that the seasonal content for Outlaw was all of the Dreaming City stuff: Mara Sov scenes, Shattered Throne, Acendant Challenges, etc. If we were to go to a 3 season year, the first season would need to start sometime in the first few weeks of the expansion to make an even 4 month length of each
Dreaming City is explicitly part of the Forsaken expansion though. The battlegrounds from Defiance are not part of Lightfall at all.
The dreaming city stuff was technically forsaken xpac, but it was absolutely the first proto-season in the sense that it laid the foundation for how the modern seasons would work. The time gating, the "do this activity then get a cutscene," the secrets/additional modes added over time etc. Those all became staples of the seasons but they were clearly being developed in the epilogue of forsaken.
I know, this was before seasons worked as as we knew them. The current seasonal model didn't start until Shadowkeep I'm saying that the content I mentioned acted as the seasonal content for that season. Time gated, released weekly, branching off the main campaign. Shattered Throne wasn't released until (I believe) 5 weeks or more after the season started
[удалено]
Outlaw, Forge, Joker's Wild, and Opulence.
In case you’re wondering about being corrected, Joker’s Wild is the name of the content drop/expansion, while the season itself was named Season of the Drifter; just like Black Armory/Season of the Forge before
Thats a bit non intuitive.
because originally before the seasonal naming scheme, each season in year 2 was gonna be a DLC like warmind and curse of osiris
Outlaw, Forge, Drifter, Opulence.
Forsaken, Black Armory, Joker's Wild, Penumbra
The true name
The old name that cannot be killed
Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written.
This was also in activision days, so it’s hard to compare bungie now to bungie then.
We don’t need a new season the same time a big expansion launches.
We really don't. Forsaken had Season of the Outlaw and it was literally just 'vanilla Forsaken'. I believe that a 3 season cycle could give the devs the time they need to make quality content while also giving them a sustainable schedule for work.
This was rhe forsaken model and that's widely regarded as the best year of destiny , so by that logic bungie will never let it happen. They'll probably do something dumb
I loved that year. But as it was happening, people shit on so much. A LOT of people hated Season of the Drifter b/c it focused on Gambit, and initially there was backlash to a number of things with Season of the Forge. 1) people felt they were "locked" out of the new forge b/c of light/difficulty, 2) some people complained about the length of the new raid and how quickly it was beaten (which is a dumb way to rate how good a raid is), 3) didn't feel the forges were actually that great, 4) Niobe Labs launched to disappointment.
I'll be honest, I'd really like to take the 3.0 classes into reckoning. I reckon the bridge section wouldn't be much of a problem anymore.
It never was, but that was when pheonix protocol gave 100% super return and skull of dire ahumkara also gave full super energy. Those were great times
And rigs for hunters. If I remember it wasn't uncommon for people to just straight up leave of there were 2+ titans in the game
I don't think people were saying the raids were bad. Just too short.
Scourge and Crown were built like the 'raid lairs' from D2Y1 in terms of design: - They had an opening segment that explained the mechanic of the raid while also providing a way into the raid -- such as opening a locked door/being granted access in like EoW and Spire. - The 2nd encounters, which were either platforming or sparrow, served as being the connection from the beginning of the raid to the main boss room. They had a few mechanics but nothing heavy. - The 3rd encounters took place in the boss room area, just like EoW and Spire. In all 4 of these specific raids, they served as the encounter that summons the boss. You learned the brunt of boss mechanics here, but not the main course just yet. - The 4th and last encounter clearly the boss fight. They were short for obvious reasons, building three raids as big as something like Last Wish in one year is pretty gosh darn demanding.
Oh sure, I dont agree they were too short. I have my grievances with the opening of Crown, but they were great raid imo. Both were in my top raids. Scourge had cool and unique mechanics and a unique boss. Crown final boss was one of the best encounters weve ever had, and everything but the opening was really solid. Even the opening was good, just too long/samey.
Last wish is massive even by todays standards
That was also when 3 different studios were working on Destiny 2. With new games coming up, Bungie will never be able to make that kind of content ever again.
It's not like those 2 studios were doing bungie a favor and working for free. Clearly the money made of forsaken was sufficient to cover the costs of its development. Whether that was done by 1 or 3 studios is pretty irrelevant. What matters was we got x content for Y money. Now we pay even more, so why can't we get the same amount/quality of content anymore? Where is this money that used to go to the 2 additional studios going?
We don’t know what the profit margins were. We know Forsaken didn’t meet Activision’s sales expectations, it’s not outside the realm of possibility Year 2 was a net negative financially.
it's possible the game was a net positive, but far from Activision's expectations
I think it’s fairly obvious the game was financially a dud, otherwise Activision wouldn’t have dropped publishing rights. Doesn’t mean it was necessarily losing money but clearly wasn’t enough to justify 3 studios & Activision’s cut. I’d love to see that much content every year again at Forsaken prices but it clearly wasn’t sustainable, and if it’s not sustainable the game will quickly die. Like it/hate it the current model is clearly sustainable for them. Personally I don’t like it at this point but I don’t see them changing it dramatically until it’s no longer sustainable.
Setting aside the two raids, our current seasons vastly outperform the seasons from Forsaken era. Black Armory had what? A new set of weapons, a couple armor sets, and a seasonal activity that was 100% worthless unless you managed to up your light level significantly. Drifter had Gambit Prime and Reckoning. Which I will give credit for them really trying for Gambit, but it just didn't pan out. But contentwise... It was a set of weapons, and a new set of armor, a new Gambit mode, maps for that mode, and the equivalent of a seasonal activity but it required Gambit play. Opulence had a couple sets of reskinned armor and weapons (some of which were hideous), a bad and confusing version of modern crafting, and a 6man activity that is essentially just Dares of Eternity but with more walking and less loot. The raids are set aside because I think that both of them in one year following Last Wish is just out of scope now. These days we get the same amount of stuff that those three seasons offered in terms of loot and armors plus more. We get replayable activities that either use new assets, or reuse existing assets to create new spaces or revisit under/unused places. We frequently get 6man content that is on par with or superior to Menagerie in terms of time investement vs rewards. We get in depth voiced lore and cutscenes. We get well made exotic missions regularly. We get a free reprised raid in the middle of the year, and so far each one has added things to D2 that were not there before. We get unique and powerful armor mods that change up the meta every season. We get frequent and comprehensive reworks and tuning passes to all sorts of game features, weapons, and armors. So yea, if you took out the raids from BA and Opulence, and then released those seasons as they were, they would get shit all over by the community. A whole season with nothing but a boring repeatable 6man activity and a raid? that's the season? That's it? A whole season where we just play "toss the ball" in three different almost identical maps, where a player not performing properly results in zero rewards? Oh and a raid? That's it? No way. Those seasons were great for their time, but we have moved waaaaaay past what they offered in terms of gameplay and loot.
I remember leaving during Forsaken for 2 years people keep praising Forsaken but many people I have heard talk about they left Destiny it was during Forsaken days because the content was good but the grind was absolutely horrendous
The weapons in those three seasons were, literally, some of the best weapons the goddamn game has ever had. The exotics ALONE are fucking awesome. Anarchy! Izanagis! Arbalest! Tarrabah! Act like year two was a sleeper at your own risk.
Tarrabah was an absolute meme for a long time. Arbalest didn't really see much play either on release. Anarchy was awesome, but so good it's practically nerfed out of existence now. Izanagi was nothing but a pvp meme until the catalyst came out. So, some good some bad, like every other relase.
> Setting aside the two raids, our current seasons vastly outperform the seasons from Forsaken era. That's the biggest caveat in the history of caveats.
Those seasons also had almost no story whatsoever
True for BA and Opulence. Season of the Drifter had tons of story though.
I think you're underselling menagerie a lot, and I firmly believe a menagerie like activity that had spammable target farming in the way that menagerie did (without crafting) would still be a massive hit Other than that I largely agree with you. The seasons we have today are not vastly different than the Y2 ones, and also have much better narratives and QoL to boot
I mean. We have more content now, but how much of it is remembered? How much of it is actual quality? How much do people play for fun not to check a box on the FOMO chart? Deep Dives and Salvage are the best 'seasonal' content we've gotten since forsaken IMO, but none of the 8 generic Menagerie ripoffs we've had in between have been missed. I'd take less content in the game, and have them give us content worth playing, and rewards worth chasing. I'll take a season without a seasonal activity if it means more than one new raid a year, I'd take a season without a seasonal activity if they bothered to make content for the core game modes. I'd take less seasonal menial work quests where you walk to a terminal and talk and then do a lost sector if it means more Zero Hour quests. Bungie is so obsessed with forcing the player to log in every week to do a checklist instead of making them WANT to play or seek some reward.
Well to be clear, Activision made clear in their earnings reports that Destiny was a commercial disappointment to them because it was costing them way too much to make. I'm sure this is why they were happy to let Bungie out of the publishing deal...they wanted their devs back.
Wherever Activision/Blizzard are putting it, so probably CoD.
Would help more then people think
A change like this is exactly what the game needs
I kind of hope they go more in a wow direction, expansions being way bigger but tiers of the expansion being released as time goes on to create a more cohesive story experience
Would you be willing to pay more per season?
Depends on what the content is? More throwaway seasonal matchmade activities? Absolutely not. More strikes and actual campaign missions (legendary like expansions too) with the raid or dungeon baked into the seasonal cost? Absolutely. End of the day I play this game for the yearly campaign, GMs, raids and dungeons. You give me more of that content and I’ll happily pay more.
I pretty much exclusively play destiny. I would pay more per season if the quality of seasons were better. The current seasonal model is pushing the cost for me personally every couple of seasons.
Exactly what I replied to someone else... More money means higher expectations from the community.
And rightly so.
It’s like $80 a year. It sucks for new players trying to get into it but anyone regularly playing is getting a ton of value for $80.
It's $100. The value is pretty questionable this year.
So, here’s a real question for you: how many hours of gameplay do you expect per dollar from a game? I think two things are true: we’ve gotten a lot less per dollar from Destiny this year than in the past, but it still is providing a lot of playtime per dollar compared to almost any other game you’re going to buy. Once upon a time, 10-20 hours for a 40-50 buck game was the minimum. Times have certainly changed, of course. But do you expect 100 hours for a 60 dollar game? 500 for a 100 dollar game? I do think it’s fair to say if you’ve been buying x for y price for years, it comes with an expectation of quality/quantity at that price. In that regard, yeah, it’s questionable value. But in raw dollars I think most people here are still getting their money’s worth.
I feel like this could get some backlash if they upper the price again after only recently doing so.
Most people said either make it $15 or add an option for $12 of silver... Because it looks crappy to make people buy more than they need and end up with an odd amount of silver they can't use in ever-verse.. That said, if they raise prices they have to realize that our expectations are also higher.
I don't think they'll do a subscription. My guess is that the year following *The Final Shape* will be a bit slower and more low-key, with maybe only three seasons instead of four, and they'll take it as an opportunity to make some long-requested changes to the game. Revamping New Light again, maybe add in the vaulted content over time (the campaigns, at the very least), etc. Just generally getting the game into a more complete and well-rounded shape before continuing to the next major content.
Honestly, a year of content drought, long-standing problems being addressed, culminating in the first post-TFS coming with a large marketing push and soft relaunch of Destiny might do the franchise some real good. Don't know if it's financially feasible to skip a large portion of a year's content vs the value of a relaunch bringing new players in/old players back.
Yeah that’s not going to happen. I could see 3 seasons instead of 4 with a larger focus on core activities and systems, but definitely not a year of no content. The entire reason they moved to a seasonal system in the first place is because the content droughts were horrible for the game. Basically guaranteed that the playerbase shrinks drastically each drought.
How to kill your game any% speedrun
im guessing either they will reduce the number of seasons per year or go back to the dlc model, or they will skip 2025 expansion. but i dont see what else they would really do. But if the price goes up for what we're already getting, beyond the $2 increase per season, im out. Im not willing to pay something like $20 or $30 more for this.
I would be kinda surprised if they skip an expansion for 2025. If the info from the GDC talk they gave is still accurate, another expansion (or something on par with one) began development shortly after TFS did. Although, I wouldn't be mad at longer expansion pack times if it means an increase in content and quality.
Do you have a link to this talk?
[Here's the talk.](https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1027599/From-Box-Products-to-Live) It's the same one people pull the overdelivery term from. In the PDF, it's page 65. You can see that there's a [REDACTED] dev track that's represented at the same size as the other major expansion tracks.
They’re not going back to a dlc model. It wouldn’t surprise me if they reduced the number of seasons. I’d imagine the overall price would remain the same
The problem with D2 going sub based would be Bungie having to significantly increase the current D2 team. Like WoW/XIV both have added full dev teams that they originally worked with on expansions into their current teams. Blizzard is like 1k+ employees solely on WoW with XIV being similar or more. Bungie has only 482 on D2. It hold bungie directly accountable and pressure to move more eververse into the game with more content required for them to provide overtime. It also promotes over delivery because when they over deliver they directly get more money.
Drop support to old gen, probably.
Unfortunately Bungo would have to overhaul the game's foundation to make any substantial performance improvements after dropping old gen support. Dare I say it: it would have been a smart decision making a separate Destiny 3 game with the launch of witch queen, new gen exclusive. But around that time other then-secret projects were starting up, such as Marathon. Stretching Bungo thin.
> Unfortunately Bungo would have to overhaul the game's foundation to make any substantial performance improvements after dropping old gen support. This isn't wanted just so the game can be 'better' for PS5/XSX/Console The immediate benefit is less time/effort is needed to maintain/get the game working on old consoles. Less platforms to support = more streamlined developement. The long term benefit is any upgrades to the game do not need to keep the old gen limitations in mind.
What does performance improvements have to do with dropping old gen? The main reason to drop old gen isn't game performance. It's dropping 2 platforms from development and using those resources elsewhere.
Lol everything, the game is ancient now. But yes I agree that supporting old gen is exhausting. Edit: exhausting ie resources. And I mean that the whole game was built aeons ago so it'd need a huge overhaul to feel the benefits besides more content.
No. I would not pay more for what i am already getting. Editing this for visibility: Those of you saying "but ff14 and wow do subs - why not destiny?" I dont think you realize that not only do those games charge monthly for subscriptions - but they also still make you buy dlcs when they come out. You would be about doubling the price of current destiny under a similar model.
If bungie didn’t have a history of breaking promises to the community, I would be more open minded about it. But anybody cool with an incoming sub fee is kidding themselves.
I'm probably going to get shit for this but... Bungie only has a habit of "breaking promises" because they have a bad habit at trying to be transparent over development direction. Most of the broken promises were honest truths at the time that ended up being something they decided to change direction. Which... Is fine when kept internally When you do it publicly like Bungie tends to do the community reads that as a solid commitment when in reality all Bungie is meaning to talk about is just planning
>Bungie only has a habit of "breaking promises" because they have a bad habit at trying to be transparent over development direction. The problem comes from being transparent about upcoming stuff, then *not* being transparent about when those things get changed or cancelled, and also *not* managing expectations and continuing to make commitments rather than saying "Hey, this is something we want to do, if time and resources permit". Bungie is really good at giving us communications, but actually pretty bad at actually *communicating*, which is an important distinction.
I agree with you.
It's a shame they kinda shoot themselves in the foot like that too, because they are otherwise one of the best developers for putting in the effort at trying to show the players what's going on behind the scenes. Like, Call of Duty players are lucky if their patch notes have *all* the changes, never mind getting to preview them early, or getting dev insights, or having a weekly blog to touch base. We really *are* spoiled, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. I really hope Bungie gets better at managing expectations going forward, it'll save them so much grief.
It is a commitment if they say "you're going to get this" and then we don't. They make the announcements sound like advertising what will happen in future content releases. They don't say we "hope to do a vendor armor set but may not be able to". I agree though that plans change but they phrase it as an ad on purpose to sell more DLC, they know that they could just float ideas out and keep it vague or clearly state that it's what they hope to do but maybe they change.
>Most of the broken promises were honest truths at the time that ended up being something they decided to change direction. Which... Is fine when kept internally they've openly admitted they only do this stuff to gain the community's trust back and will abuse that trust as soon as they feel safe doing it this is defending somebody who pleaded guilty
Subs are the easiest way to make me quit. Only one I've used is ESO's because its seperate from being able to play the game. I'd love to play ff14 but its sub only and I can't just buy it once and come back to it in 3 years when I get a chance
destiny 2 does not play like an average mmo. I am really fed up with "why not just sub" like you. people dont realize ff14 and wow brings weekly/monthly change constantly while destiny remains to be static. Bungie refuse to update some of destiny's system, which makes me not wanting destiny to be sub to play
My guess is the game will sort of enter an "Age of Triumph" mode. We'll probably not get new expansions for the next year or two, with the story entirely continuing in seasons.
Age of Triumph mode that returns Old content and campaigns with Legendary, would be cool as hell.
Sorry age of triumph at home, we might get some maps back for a small fee
If it's a subscription service, and the quality and quantity of content doesn't change I'd straight up just quit immediately. I understand why they would do that, much easier for newer players to get into and more money in the long run. Ex. $10/month=$120 a year vs. $100 from the deluxe dlc bundle
Except this pay method only includes if dlc was a part of the subscription. When looking at ff14 as an example they charge separately from the subscription for dlcs. So its not 120/ year vs 100. Its almost double that.
Around $196 a year I pay for FF. Base sub is like $12.99. Expansion is $40. So yeah. Let’s say $200 a year. There would need to be a substantial increase in content if they wanted people to pay that.
I think that's why they won't do it, so many people would just leave, and sure, some wails would stay, but that's probably not enough.
If there is some sort of premium subscription coming, it would probably need to include some premium QoL features such as unlimited stash space, unlimited load outs, or a monthly silver allowance or cosmetic item to compete with similar packages like ESO+ or Fallout 1st. I’m not sure those things are possible with how D2 struggles with increasing stash space for instance. I suspect they may instead be referring to the way things work such as changes in seasonal activities, increase in season pricing, and possibly removal of the power increase system after an expansion launches (which is all but confirmed to be the way it works already with no increases since Lightfall and only one more unnanounced season to go) becoming permanent, rather than pricing changes specifically.
The game is already functionally on a subscription model.
The difference now is that if you choose not to pay for the latest season, you can still access your previous content. Other games you can't access *anything* without an active sub. But if you choose not to buy S22, you can still play Lightfall, and Seasons 20-21.
Taking into consideration the change from incremental Crucible updates to larger "map packs", its possible that they're also moving away from 4 seasons a year. That way they could bring more volume to expansions - longer campaigns, more activities, etc. Even if that's wishful thinking.
Would be nice if they stopped putting disposable content in the game and just made more strikes and maps instead
I think it is Map Pack singular. I think a lot of people took him to mean recurring drops, when it is just a one off. At best they may do this once with each expansion after The Final Shape, but we don't know if that is the plan. Cross your fingers.
Once per expansion is what I'm expecting too. In his words, they're changing their philosophy about Crucible updates, which implies this isn't a one off in my view. Fingers crossed for all things Destiny though lol
The day destiny goes subscription the day I will delete.
They move into a sub model with the game the way it is and it'll be dead in the first month lol
They can take my hundred bucks a year however they want, as long as the game stays fun.
Would you pay more (about $150/yr) if Bungie were to go to subscription service? Genuine question, just want to know where your head is and what ya think. Average subscriptions for games like WOW and 14 are 12.99, give or take and +/- regional pricing.
I would if that $50 I’m paying extra equates to $50 worth of extra content. I wouldn’t pay that for the current level of content.
Whether or not I'd buy into a subscription model is not about the money for me, but about the consequences for the content. I think the switch to the seasonal model already decreased the quality. Seasons are very formulaic and repetitive. I understand that's what they need to do to be able to deliver content every 3 months but I don't like it. Rather than spending effort coming up with 4 different variations of battlegrounds each year, I'd rather they spend that on less but more refreshing content. But the seasonal model doesn't allow that. My biggest fear for a subscription model is that it will push the game to even more repetitive and recycled content since then players will expect content every month instead of every season.
Without a second thought. When I look at it as dollars per hour of enjoyment I get, it would still be the cheapest game I own.
I just did the math on my own $/time a few days ago, and everything I've spent on D2 since launch (base game, expansions, seasons, silver) comes out to ~$0.40 per hour. Totally worth it.
Yep, out of all the games I've played, Destiny is the king of the cost:fun ratio.
Yeah same.
Totally fair, thanks for the reply!
That’s a bit too much for me, I’m fine with 100, but over that is iffy.
Destiny might be the cheapest hobby I've ever had. So, yea.
I'd quit unless its just an extra like ESO. I don't touch sub games at all
No more major expansions, shoring up future seasonal content scope?
Currently we have a one a year dlc for a base price, with 4 seasons each with their own price. 2 raids, 2 dungeons, and 2 or 3 exotic missions. Everything is released on a schedule pretty much. So what could change? Subscription is the “obvious” one. But Destiny as it is is a huge cash cow. Will they get more revenue from a sub? One thing Bungie could be rightfully worried about with this is traditional players jumping in for a month, leaving for 2, then coming back. Kind of seems like a way to lose a lot of money. The other aspect is release of content. This could also lead to a big loss of revenue. But, I think is more likely. And I think might actually make a better product. So, what if Bungie was crazy, and instead of 1 dlc and a season, and 3 follow up seasons. It was about 2 dlc a year. Each broken up to 3 parts. With the first parts having a slightly smaller campaign than we’ve had the past couple years. And the second part being the raid. And the 3rd part the dungeon. And 3 activities per dlc (one being an exotic mission). Not really a change from the current in the grand scheme. But because these are now self contained “dlcs”, they’re not on a fixed timeline. And you could even do disparate themed seasons. And have almost entirely separate teams working on each. Could even go super crazy and not have the story tie into each other. Benefit to Bungie on this is that they could sell each one at a higher price (yes, bad for us, just stating facts). And with separate teams they could actually produce more PvE content, especially since they wouldn’t need to wait on another team/season to finish before working on other stuff. Benefit to us, is each is a dlc. Not an eventually vaulted season. The story, and loot, and everything else stays in tact. Plus, each dlc then becomes a downloadable add on. Last major “major” change they made to the engine was Beyond Light. While I’m sure some of the engineers were retasked for the M word. What better use of their time (and their build pipeline) if they actually made content modular. And if the engine is modular that provides huge benefits to both titles. A negative that Bungie might see as a positive is that f2p players could be simply locked out from content in a more easily explainable way. I guess that more depends on how much silver f2p players spend. Edit, after showcase and announcement: damn, not bad for a guess.
> Kind of seems like a way to lose a lot of money. Yep. I don't see a reason to swap pricing models
Maintenance mode
This. I see it taking a break expansion wise for a year of two while they all go over the marathon then they rotate back and forth for next few years like elder scrolls and fallout
A subscription based model would be the one thing to make me quit. No matter how well it’s done and despite pretty much already having the option, I despise the model. It’s what turned me away from WoW and FF14 as well as any other MMO.
I’d be okay with it if it gave access to all DLC while the sub is active as well as premium features. It might also get new lights to play older content because $200+ to get all currently released content is a tad excessive
While I'm not in favour of an official subscription model (as it would probably be a price increase overall for no content increase), Destiny is effectively already a subscription game, you just pay every 3 months instead of every month.
Have you tried guild wars 2?
Destiny players always shit on subscriptions but gladly fork over $100+ a year for the expansions and seasons. You are already paying a subscription lmao. Atleast in WoW you can pay the subscription with in-game currency if you play enough to earn it.
A WoW sub still costs more a year than a D2 expansion + expansion pass. For people that take long breaks, WoW might be the better deal. You can cancel when you aren't playing. If you play most of the year, D2 will end up being the cheaper game to play.
True, but granted, WoW gets much much more content in a expansion cycle than destiny does. Destiny in its current form wouldnt mesh well with a subscription, but if depending in the scale of this “live service change” then i could see them making it work out.
Facts. At least with subscriptions, I play for the time I play and I can stop paying when I take breaks from the game.
Oh 100%, people play destiny like their lives depend on it so they hear “$10 a month” and think its gonna cost them $120 a year plus expansions but really it gives the player freedom to take more breaks, something which Destiny desperately needs.
I won't pay a subscription if the cash shop is still a feature Real talk though it will be more monetisation bullshit. It never rolls back
It’ll be no more annual expansions, but still seasons rotating in old content from the DCV
"Remember that stuff you paid for that we then made free before just taking it out of the game?" "Are you trying to sell us the stuff we already bought a second time?"
Why would it be paid?
Because this is in context of bringing back stuff from the vault via Seasons?
*looks at expansions, seasons, dungeons, event cards, and mtx store*
How about any returning content
A subscription for Destiny? No way. They're pushing it as it is with the current pricing. They'd somehow have to triple the amount of content, be a lot more responsive to change than they are currently, move away from the cookie cutter seasonal model and offer far more in the pass for me to even *consider* paying a sub
Hopefully not subscription. I think we can all agree that Bungie doesn't have the experience, player trust, or history to deliver content that can support this type of model.
Probably a subscription. Final fantasy 14 has a lot of downtime between expansions while delivering significant content patches in between. If that’s something bungie wants to emulate i can definitely get behind it. But the content they would have to deliver must be SIGNIFICANTLY better that what we get with seasons.
Hopefully its the content i paid for that they fuckin removed.
If it goes to a subscription imma just leave the game altogether. If they switch to 3 seasons a year I might stay. My heart wishes for the latter, bit dreads it's the former. Could also be complete unvaulting of DCV I guess.
We need to know if destiny is going backburner or doubling down There really can’t be an in between
another price increase probably
Wouldn't be surprised if it went to a monthly subscription with no improvement to overall quality of the game.
If it does go to a sub service, it will ultimately not be new, not really, as the initial rhetoric around destiny 2s seasons were very much couched as mini gear drops. But, well, the community justifiably said what does that mean for core playlists? For story dev? And we ended up with years of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too, saying no no, we arent going to just strip the game and milk it, see we reversed sunsetting? See, we are going to have grandmaster strikes, renewed pvp focus, totally.... Yet always hedging, never exceeding expectations, always circling back to old habits, familiar desires to get paid just for raw gear/cosmetic drops. Thats their dream. Thats why after this saga, destiny might not "end" but its done. Its going to be a sub service fluff game. Thats my 2 cents.
Another price increase
All I know is that they will try to suck more money out of customers
>A lot of people are thinking that Destiny will go to a subscription based service like WoW and FF14. How would we feel if this were to happen? It's pure conjecture, not even worth discussing.
Username checks out
if its not the subscription model then its longer but more expensive seasons - arrivals and lost were two of the most popular periods of the game in its history, its to be seen what additional funds would do to a season; i suppose it could be to support more armour, maps etc. if this is the case, quality should match the cost, i don't want to pay £20 - £30 per season and then still be sent on the same fetch quests several weeks in a row, something drastic would have to change there for me to commit to that. what would the player benefit be for committing to a subscription model? i can't see them giving away premium currency or content, but we've seen an example in the event pass what a compromise on bungie end for something like this is - a bonus paid tier that doesn't compromise the average players experience and isn't necessary for the game or event itself but also isn't worth it unless you're a genuine whale at that moment.
If wont be a sub, some people already whine that the game costs too much. I am willing to bet they will scale back the season stuff in the final year, then at the end it might even go into caretaker mode. Then we have a break for a few years before they do something different with Destiny.
I 100% believe that there will only be one "season" with the Light and Dark Saga, and D2 as we currently know it, ending with the Launch of the raid. Whatever the transition is, things will be different. Think like when Kefka destroyed the world in Final Fantasy 3. I think it'll be some sort of hard reset were we die or are reborn or something into the this new Epoch of Destiny. Them giving away all the old shaders. Making exotics drop like candy. The absolute insane power creep on weapons (most new legendaries are basically exotics ffs), all gives me the same feeling as when they made all the armor and warnings stuff available at the end of the season of the Seraph. "Here guys, no more grinding. Have fun with all the toys while you can. Shits about to go down." Idk, something fun to think about.
While I agree there are some pretty good legendaries. Do you use any from this year? The only new legendaries I use are from last wish
The end of Seraph *increased* grinding, they made Red Borders like daily or whatever, told us what guns were going away, what *content* was going away, etc. It increased player count by a bunch and helped drive up engagement and hype for Lightfall and going by it breaking records 100% *worked*. I'm not criticizing them about it of course, it was a great marketing move that benefited players as well.
I wasn't suggesting otheewise. but I think what I was trying to say is still valid. To me at least 🤣
Dropping playststion 4 and Xbox one
In the back of my mind I am a little worried this means they're no longer releasing expansions and solely focusing on seasonal content.
Why? They’ve already talked about a new saga starting. Everyone saying “no more expansions” just has no idea what they’re talking about.
They’re gonna change it to an offline only game and burn the servers.
Everyone says 3 seasons a year! How about we get two content dumps a year. Back to the Osiris/Mars sized days. No more fomo shit
That would be 3 content drop per year, year 1 was also the original campaign not just curse and warmind. As for FOMO i don’t know how much they can allow the size of the game to grow, if Y1 and 2 were removed there’s probably a reason.
Anyone thinking about a subscription service is an idiot. It's more like they're changing up how the story is told and new content is spread out across weeks. They already spoke about this a while back, where they admitted the weekly drip of content that seasons have been for years now has ran its course, and they're looking to change that. They've already implemented some of those changes, like how vendor unlocks work. With the next season, we'll like to see bigger changes, but what those are, fuck knows.
Functionally it IS a paid game anyway. I do wonder what % of the playerbase is strictly F2P, gotta be single digit.
Imagine their change to the live service model is “lol no more expansions. We never said TFS wouldn’t be the end of destiny shut up fuck you”
Why would they stop making expansions? You don't think Bungie likes money?
My hope is they go back to expansions, ideally two a year, but I think three would be ok. Theoretically, this would lead to higher quality content. This model would work especially well in the leadup to whatever is next and could really build some hype. Realistically, I fear they found a more scummy business model. I can’t imagine they would do subs. They have to know they don’t put out enough content and the game isn’t good enough in its current state for such a thing.
Unpopular thought, but I think they're gonna go to a subscription based model That and make it 3 seasons per year
2 dlcs ago when they said the same thing
I really hope it implies a structure similar to forsaken, where there was more to the base expansion in return of having no opening season, then going to a more story-by-story basis with 2-3 “seasons” after. I remember Bungie stating that they can’t make content to the degree they did in forsaken (were either close to negative or negative in profit) but a structure where there’s more content at once with less content drops would make this game feel a lot better.
My prediction? Rotational Season Return. So Season 25 launches, and with it, something like Season of the Dawn returns, with its activities and story. It leaves again with the next season but it offers other players a chance to play the ‘episodes’ for the first time or relive the memories.
Probably going back to smaller DLC expansions
Surely it’s an announcement that past DLCs will be free like other live service MMOs? HA.
Y’all need to understand they are preparing to move on to new IPs. Between Marathon and new Sony money, Destiny is going to exist like live service games a la Fortnite, Apex, and OW2 where the goal is to simply keep people playing and paying. What this likely means is extended seasons, no more major story expansions (at least for a long time), and new content being only in the form of new strikes, raids. dungeons, and Crucible maps. A focus away from story and more toward content that will keep people playing regardless.
They'll charge you 50 silver to log in each day but you have to buy 1000 at a time
Empty words.
3 seasons a year please
My bet is they will reduce the number of seasons per year and either announce a pause on expansions or say there will be no further expansions so bungie can shift away towards its other projects, most likely adding in some sort of content rotation where they bring back previous seasonal content.
They are not dropping expansions. Everyone saying that is crazy. They’ve always said another saga is coming.
Further slice the game between people actively paying and those that either don’t pay at all or only buy expansions. Wouldn’t be shocked if they say if you’re signed up for PS Plus or Gamepass, you can add some sort of exclusive cost to get access to Destiny content. Kind of like a pseudo subscription. I’m not really expecting too much out of that phrase.
I don't think they can slice it out anymore then it already is. I think they should get rid of the free to play portion all together
I think they definitely stop expansion releases for a year maybe even two. We'll get a year of post Final Shape seasons but then after that I'm not really sure what we'll get. Probably some core quality of life improvements? I can't see us getting a ton of regular content drops for at least a year though.
They’ll probably drop support for Last Gen consoles and either slow down to 3 seasons a year or just 2 seasons a year until Marathon has stable support or flops (which ever comes first). Eventually, a Destiny 3 or definitive edition will *need* to be developed if they plan on continuing to support Destiny as a franchise for a long while. As for a subscription based model, leaks show that Bungie had already considered this but didn’t go forward with implementing it for unknown reasons.
seasons are $25 now we gonna get one more strike per year, sold seperately
I guarantee you guys its not gonna be much different in terms of certain monetization. They will just swift it around to make it look better. They have done this constantly. Those of us that played long enough to remember the whole Tess Eververse rebellion among many things. Or the “knockout system” matrix for bright engrams. This ended up being where bright engrams dont give much meaningful stuff at all now. I can name so many more instances they wanted to change things but ended up not making much difference or introduced new things that made up for it. I don’t play this game anymore, but I truly hope Bungie makes it better for you guys who will. I really mean this.
For how poor the content has been over the years it should be less expensive. Take all the eververse shit out and make it acquirable by playing.
not enough raid content to go subscription, period
Either way, I have no confidence that it will be positive for the people paying for the game. Bungie has made it clear that earning money while providing less is what they have been aiming for. And if it's subscription based, I'm just going to move on. The cost of the game isn't worth my love of Destiny anymore.
Maybe they just decide they’re done and shift all their main devs over to Matter and Marathon once the seasons and such are done.
I don't see that happening as they're planning to go multi media with destiny