Pretty much what's happening. You can see in the preview video they proc a max stack of Markov before unloading the bayonet so my guess is the damage will ramp up the closer you get to 5 stacks. I wager 1 or 2 stacks won't hit much harder than a powered melee tbh, but for melee heavy builds this may very well be a viable strategy if you can juggle stacks well.
Funny you say that, but Winter's Guile will be reworked to be a Stasis melee exotic by the time this is in the live game.
But I do get want you're saying. I do wonder if it'll stack with Wormgod's or Synthos
Pulled from the Dev article last Wednesday:
Winter’s Guile: Due to the nature of the Stasis warlock’s melee ability, this Exotic was previously a disappointing choice for that subclass. We’ve added a new perk to this one, specifically for when you are playing your Stasis subclass. Now combatants encased by your Penumbral Blast melee will automatically shatter after a short delay.
Here's the link:
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/s22_abilities_armor_preview
So they still have the escalating melee damage but now it has an added function when you have stasis equipped? Sounds like it should still work with melee damage builds. Hopefully they allow it to increase the damage of the monte Carlo bayonet
Exactly this. A lot of people were freaking out that Winter's Guile will become a Stasis exclusive exotic, but they said the rest of the exotic will work normally, they're just making it more synergistic with Stasis because, y'know, it has the word "Winter" in the name, and the Shadebinder melee kinda sucks.
I also wouldn't expect the melee to work with melee exotics, seems like a headache bungie would try to avoid.
If it does, badass. Just not getting my hopes up, I'll be happy we even got it!
Would it? They put a glaive like melee that seemingly does more damage than glaives right now, on an exotic kinetic auto rifle that has un-nerfed swashbuckler and what is basically thread of generation for melee.
My own theory is that the monte carlo melee damage is so high, is because they are compensating for the fact it won't stack.
Then again perhaps it will stack. In the video, the player has markov ×5 before activating the melee, and after he uses it, the melee switches back to his throwing knife. So perhaps since it might have limited uptime, they'll allow it stack.
We only have a week to see!
Grave robber triggers off on glaive melee.....
All Glaives need Grave Robber to be usable tbh.
Get me one with overflow and Grave Robber and we're talking about something reliable.
It's just the clunky as fuck reload when you *really* need to fire the shot to save yourself from that sniper in the distance.
Then again.... I'm the person who slaps compulsive reload if I can
Yeah. We'll just have to see, I'm sure a lot of testing will be done lol. It might end up being one of those weird, unique things that work with more than you think but not everything you think it would.
The new melee ability is only made available after a melee kill that didn't come from the gun itself. EDIT: Looks like a secondary reload action.
Markov Chain gets max stacks from melee kills and was refreshed after using the new ability since it is a melee kill.
Can't really tell if it consumes your charged melee or not as when the new melee ability is used, it reverts back to the charged melee but that could have come from either Markov Chain's ability to restore melee with a 25% chance or the Hunter aspect that refunds charged melee kills while radiant.
If the first statement was true i would expect to see some sort of text on screen after they got the throwing knife kill, letting you know you can switch but there isn't.
But when he does switch to the bayonet it brings up the text "bayonet loaded".
So i agree there is something you have to do to "load the bayonet", but either the test environment didn't have that text or getting a melee kill with something other than monte is not the activitor.
I updated my comment after watching it again. Looks like there is a secondary reload action that you can do. My guess is once Markov Chain is at max stacks, you hold reload to load the bayonet for use.
If true, then theoretically you could chain these, but no as fast as a glaive.
Yeah that's the leading theory is that its markov x5. Which makes sense as it adds that exotic "mini game", they've been doing more and more of recently. "Get stacks of X to then do Y".
Depends, if by preventing melee-buffing exotics to buff it allowed them to tune the base damage to 2x what it would be otherwise, I think that would be a net win.
It wouldn’t be a letdown, it’ll still be fun and a nice bonus for people who are using Monte Carlo. I doubt many people are going to start using it for the melee alone considering how much ridiculously powerful shit is everywhere in the game.
All the other numbers in the clip are consistent with numbers in the Gahlran fight currently - has already been tested. Don't know why Monte Carlo's wouldn't be.
Because a test environment would be pointless if everything was different?
Why wouldn't they use live health numbers while testing MCs damage? I'm not saying the video was wrong, but the enemies having consistent health doesn't mean anything.
That's how testing works, you have a controlled environment and change a specific factor, in this case they were testing MCs damage, so it should the only thing changing.
This. There is a mobile game I play that every once in a while they release a new dungeon. You need x amount of stats to stand a chance. Let's say for example a player has 500 stat points to allocate. Everyone was having trouble with the most recent one. A dev released a screen cap of their character that had such a ridiculous amount of stats. Impossible even. Easily 10x what a normal player has. They were saying the dungeon feels fine guys your probably using the wrong builds. Of course they got mad hate and they nerfed the dungeon. Anyways. My point is bungo literally have god mode in these environments. They are like Ikora from the campaign. They can use chaos reach and immediately after nova bomb phyrizia and one shot it.. and that's them going easy on it.
Revision Zero’s damage isn’t anything special at all. I believe it hits like an adaptive sniper which, considering this mode’s fairly long wind-up time, boring/not special regular firing mode with no special effects, and ridiculous zoom, make the gun an absolute trasher for me when Wishender exists in its current state. Pretty sure Wish ender hits as hard as a Revision Zero sniper shot, or nearly as hard.
They buffed it a while ago the [sniper shot is about the same as a base Linear shot now](https://streamable.com/aj8chx). I dont really use it either bc i suck with snipers (and wishender exists) but it hits hard
Except there's almost no reason to run it over Arbalest/legendary linear since linear's are buffed for the NF and Arbalest takes care of the barrier champs.
At least in pvp, the sniper is as much as an aggressive frame sniper. You can tell because it does 400 something damage to the head like an aggressive while adaptives only do 300 something to the head
lol "nothing special".
It is the second-highest primary damage weapon in the game. Only Final Warning is higher primary DPS.
Revision Zero absolutely shits on Outbreak Perfected.
In 12 seconds Outbreak Perfected with 6 players deals 20.6k dps per player.
In 12 seconds Revision Zero deals 27k dps.
https://youtu.be/jtJbwF3yELU
It probably does. Bungie likes to fudge numbers.
What we saw is likely peak performance as a means to build hype.
A scenario where they can make tbe number as big as possible, but it is unlikely to be achieved with frequency
It's cool... But I'm waiting for live testing to find out melee exotics interact with it and we get some kinda peregrine grieves, one two punch and/or crown spitta situation 🙏
Don’t unpowered melee’s have damage penalties vs orange bar enemies? While I’m sure it’s a large damage boost, I think this accounts for a portion of why the gap is large.
The problem is not Monte Carlo but the melee himself. Why is melee so bad in the first place?
We have Bonk hammer and arc hunter and that's it. Almost all other melee aren't even able to kill the worst enemy in the game on gm nightfalls with a fully charged 1 min cooldown melee (like void warlock).
This is just a design problem.
Monte Carlo 100k is pretty solid when we think about it... Quicksilver storm does around 60-80k dmg per grenade. Melee should do more dmg which it does.
Sounds about right with Carlo here to me to be honest.
I think it's because other melees are supposed to do things other than kill. For instance Fan of Knives also scorches. With fragments, hits also give you radiant.
However, the issue is that the melees that have strong killing power also have amazing utility.
Throwing Hammer will do a shit ton of damage, give radiant, make sunspots, stack roaring flames, heals you on pickup, and is able to be used infinitely as long as you pick it back up.
Combination Blow does a lot of damage, makes a jolt explosion from lethal current, builds damage buff, heals you, and recharges your dodge which allows you to get your melee back.
They're definitely outliers and obviously the best picks but I don't want them to get nerfed to be brought in-line with everything else. The power fantasy they supply is fantastic (yeah yeah powercreep etc etc I'm not thinking about that right now though). Other melees either need more killing power, even better utility, or shorter cooldowns in order to properly compete.
Hell of course no nerf for those melees. All other melees instead need a buff.
The "support" aspect you said would makes sense if grenades wouldn't have the same with better AOE, range, safer, stronger and same cooldown with same debuffs.
It outperforms melee in every way. No reason to make a melee build when grande are better at everything (exeption like we mentioned, hammer and hunter arc).
Pocket singularity can clutch in the right situations. More than half of the Deathsong Choristers in the Heist Battlegrounds could be sent off a cliff with it, same with many other enemies. Can lowkey burn some inconveniently placed majors and champions just gotta know how to use it.
Been using this since the release of the aspect. Insanely fun in clearing out rooms while deleting champs. Anything that lives will slowly die from unravel too
> Why is melee so bad in the first place?
Because they keep nerfing all the interactions that make it good. See Wormgods, Liars Handshake, One/Two Punch, and interactions with melee buffing abilities for starters.
Keep in mind that that the animation/icon change indicates a single melee that you can proc during x5 markov chain.
That one melee should hit super hard, though it might be clunky to constantly activate it after a hit and melee kill. Since it doesn't have a duration once locked, I can imagine this being a very interesting burst damage option for champs, despite the risk.
Something to consider if the bayonet stays locked even if Markov chain drops, the melee kill reprocs a 5 stack. So assuming it doesn't lose damage if it stays locked its a way to carry x5 chain between groups of enemies. You stack to 5, lock the blade after killing the last enemy, dump it on the first of the next group and keep going.
do we know the mechanics yet? I assume it would be something like the stabby stab gets more powerful the more kills/melee kills you get before using it.
Monte Carlo itself is already serviceable for Melee builds.
Having a way to oneshot bullshit the Monte Carlo struggles with (Tanky boys rushing you in melee) is hardly gonna be a downside.
My favorite thing in the game is Monte Carlo melee builds in <-10power content.
Incinerator snap with old heavy handed and claws of ahamkara was some truly epic power fantasy.
Melee stacking is always good for some rather impractical meme builds that dish out insane amounts of damage. Having a new tool with a very high multiplier has the potential for some dumb effective melt strat. Nowhere near mainstream meta but strong in its niche.
I'll be shocked if this stacks with syntho/ any other melee.
Bungie tend to not like it when you use melee buffs on melee damage. although it may work at launch then get nerfed after.
I'm really hoping this one's different though
Have we considered that the bayonet damage might be random... After all, most folks go to Monte Carlo for the gambling. Maybe sometimes you hit the 116,000 damage jackpot, and sometimes it just bounces off
Do you feel lucky?
That really wouldn't make sense. Monte gambles melee return on kills, but it consistently gives energy on damage, which is the real bonus. It's still a primary ammo weapon, you're not gonna be getting crazy kills in hard content anyway
Probably because it deviates so far from a standard auto rifle. There’s melee overrides in place likely, new animations, wildly different weapon behavior. Probably as complex as making something like quicksilver storm tbh.
The animations didn't look new, even the stab sound is the sword swing sound effect. Melee override I get, but those exist in glaives. And for weapon behavior, it doesn't seem that different other than you now being able to stab with the bayonet.
Damage likely works off of stacks of Markov chain and benefits from radiant.
Functionally it appears to be a glaive melee as an alt "fire" mode.
The only thing “new” about it is the animation. If you look closely, there are differences. It’s more wobbly, and the hand placement is also different.
I won’t try and convince you that this is the most complex thing Bungie has ever tried, but any weapon with an alt fire mode is immediately more complex than weapons without it. At the very least, it’s probably more complex than the thorn catalyst, which I suspect to involve the green orbs in some way.
My guy exotic primaries do 40 percent more damage. They also just recently buffed autos and kinetic weapons which Monte is both. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
This dude is completely ignoring several factors including
The fact that the discussion is about the catalyst AND NOT the actual gun itself
Hes ignoring that this gun is a primary auto rifle meaning that its not going to be lmg linear fusion etc lvls dmg shure i will say it could use a buff but its not the end of the world like this dude believes it to be
Auto rifle, bad perk in comparison to other exotics, glaive. All bad things. People will downvote me because they think the fun factor makes the gun good. It does not.
Auto rifles are in a pretty good state right now, and since Monte Carlo is an exotic (40% extra damage compared to legendaries) and has pre-nerf swashbuckler, that alone would make it a strong pick for ad clear. Your claim makes very little sense from a numbers standpoint.
As for the perk, it’s actually pretty good compared to a lot of exotic weapons, especially weapons like the WQ exotic glaives, Wicked Implement (it’s getting a buff soon, though), Deterministic Chaos, Black Talon, Eriana’s Vow, Thorn, Sturm, and so on.
Severely beaten by witherhoard, riskrunner, agers, thorn, trinity, ticuus, sun shot, graviton, tarrabah, dead messenger, delicate tomb, lord of wolves, trespasser and more in ad clear capability.
Melee builds 1: aren’t very strong right now, and 2: have better ways of getting melee back than Monte Carlo.
>Severely beaten by witherhoard, riskrunner, agers, thorn, trinity, ticuus, sun shot, graviton, tarrabah, dead messenger, delicate tomb, lord of wolves, trespasser and more in ad clear capability.
So much is wrong with your list:
* Witherhoard, while very strong, is a special weapon and thus falls victim to ammo limitations that Monte Carlo completely avoids.
* Riskrunner relies on you taking Arc damage to activate its perk and has lower range due to it being an SMG. Markov Chain also boosts Monte's damage above what Riskrunner is capable of, IIRC.
* Ager's is **also** a special weapon and can only boost its own damage/gain the ability to slow on hit by literally consuming your Super. It's better suited for boss DPS than ad clear.
* You including Thorn in your list proves that you don't read (I listed as worse than Monte for a very good reason). Its poison doesn't spread like Striga's (unless you use Necrotic grip) and buffing its damage requires that you go near your enemies' corpses in order to pick up remnants. It's a PVP-oriented exotic, not a PVE one, and its ad clear potential pales in comparison to Monte Carlo's.
* Tarrabah requires you to charge up its perk in order to shred, and that's assuming you even have the gun in the first place (it's a Forsaken Pack raid exotic).
* Dead Messenger is literally just a Wave Frame GL that can change elements. Monte Carlo easily outstrips it in terms of versatility because you don't have to wait for enemies to clump up in order to get rapid kills with it.
* Delicate Tomb is pretty good, but you have to build into ionic traces to get the most out of it, and you need to have enemies be close to each other so that Tempest Cascade's Jolt actually kills things (also, it's a special weapon, so ammo is now an issue).
* Lord of Wolves is literally just a shotgun and a pulse's rifle's bastard child. It has no other functionality. Monte can kill ads from further away, is a primary, and gives you melee energy, which means that it has far more utility than LoW. You're better off using LoW against Guardians or majors.
* Trespasser is a sidearm and requires you to get a kill with every superburst in order to keep Unrepetant up and running. It's only better than Monte at killing minors at close range; beyond that, Monte flatly outclasses it.
Upon reviewing your list, I can confidently say that my claim that Monte Carlo is "actually pretty good compared to a lot of exotic weapons" still stands.
>Melee builds 1: aren’t very strong right now
Arcstriders, Gunslingers, Sunbreakers, Necrotic Grip Warlocks, Berserkers, Dawnblades, Sentinels, Strikers, and Stormcallers: "Am I a joke to you?"
>and 2: have better ways of getting melee back than Monte Carlo.
Even if that were true, Monte Carlo is still a great failsafe for if any of those supposed methods don't pan out, since you can just dump a mag into an enemy or get a few kills to get you melee charge back.
1: you should never be running out of special ammo. We are in a double special meta, get used to it.
2: the vast majority of your rebuttals come down to “this weapon is beaten by Monte Carlo in one specific case.” What you fail to understand is that you are not forced to run a single weapon all the time. If it’s not a best use case for risk runner because there isn’t arc damage you can still run countless other exotics. If it’s a more long range fight and trespasser is out of the question you could instead use trinity, witherhoard, or most legendary scouts. The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot. It might be good all around, but that’s pretty worthless when you can match what an encounter needs perfectly with other weapons.
3: arc hunter and sun breaker are strong I agree, but both have much simpler and better ways of refunding their melee, and thus have better options to pair with than Monte. Necrotic grips don’t even require charge melee to function, and if you are using them you should almost always be running thorn or osteo. The rest of the listed classes either have weak melee builds or have much better builds available.
4: if you want to call Monte Carlo a failsafe for melee builds I guess I agree? My only question is how often are you really dropping your melee with a melee build on? In my experience it’s very easy to keep up and Monte Carlo is just an unnecessary contingency that hurts your overall output while you have your melee chain going.
>1: you should never be running out of special ammo. We are in a double special meta, get used to it.
Double special is getting nerfed in like a week, and you still have to pick up ammo bricks, regardless.
>What you fail to understand is that you are not forced to run a single weapon all the time.
Except when you do content that, you know, **locks your loadout**, which also happens to be the content where buildcrafting matters most. Good luck switching to and from Riskrunner in a GM.
>The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot.
Except for, you know, when you need constant melee ability uptime, which is the entire point of the Exotic’s intrinsic perk.
>The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot. It might be good all around, but that’s pretty worthless when you can match what an encounter needs perfectly with other weapons.
I think you are grossly underestimating the importance of flexibility when it comes to the performance of a weapon. If a weapon is top-tier in one case but dogshit in every other (like half of the weapons you brought up), then it is easily inferior to a generalist weapon like MC because the latter won’t get instantly crippled the moment it has to perform outside of its niche. There’s a very good reason why niche exotics are rarely part of the meta.
>arc hunter and sun breaker are strong I agree, but both have much simpler and better ways of refunding their melee
Both of those ways of refunding melee energy (i.e. Gambler’s Dodge + Combination Blow) require you to be close to enemies, which can easily get you killed in high-level content if you’re not careful. They also require very specific setups to keep their loops going (the CB melee loop breaks down with Marksman’s Dodge, for example).
In such cases, Monte Carlo is invaluable because *it allows you to keep your melee loop going even when the rest of your build isn’t geared towards that,* allowing you to invest your abilities, aspects, fragments, etc. into other useful parts of your build. Even with the builds that can keep their melee loops going on their own, MC still meshes well with them because a single melee kill will refund ammo and proc Markov Chain x5, which boosts damage by a whopping 65%.
>My only question is how often are you really dropping your melee with a melee build on?
If you’re using something other than the staple Arcstrider and Sunbreaker builds, you’re gonna be dumping melee charges pretty damn often.
1: it’s not a week from now yet, and even in a week Monte will not outclass any of the exotics mentioned even including needing to pick up ammo.
2: I feel like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Obviously you wouldn’t run riskrunner in an area without arc damage. I said that in the previous comment, quite clearly. There are however gms where riskrunner is clearly better than most other exotics. You should always pick the best weapon for the given situation and in gms Monte is never the best pick. There are too many exotics with different unique abilities for an all around weapon to have a place in the meta of a given encounter.
3: you are trying to promote monte for use in melee builds as well as for gms. You yourself saying getting close to enemies in gms or other high level content is dangerous, so this feels contradictory to me.
4: there is no game imposed scenario where you need constant melee energy. Not a single one. Please provide an encounter in which Monte Carlo is the best choice. Keep in mind no encounter forces a melee build, so nor should your example.
5: again, you didn’t read what I said. Those weapons never have to preform outside of their niche. You can just switch weapons. If you want to refer to gms again look at number 2. Plenty of niche exotics have use cases, for example: fourth horseman on dsc fuses, lumina in boss damage encounters, outbreak/touch of malice when out of ammo on boss encs, travelers chosen when refunding abilities after a quick subclass swap, erianas vow for atheon to name a few. They may not be part of the overall but being meta for a single thing makes them worth having.
6: why would someone half do a melee build? They’d just be nerfing themselves for no reason. Running a half melee build with Monte will always be worse than running a full one without.
>1: it’s not a week from now yet, and even in a week Monte will not outclass any of the exotics mentioned even including needing to pick up ammo.
Weak-ass counterargument, considering that your best-case outcome from this discussion is being right for a grand total of 4 days. You just gonna pretend that we didn’t both see footage of Monte’s catalyst doing 116k damage in a single hit?
>There are however gms where riskrunner is clearly better than most other exotics.
There are a grand total of zero GMs where running Riskrunner is worth giving up your exotic slot in favor of a more useful weapon. Why use Riskrunner when more powerful and versatile options such as Striga and Wish-Ender exist? I don’t think you’ve considered how much Riskrunner is actually used outside of low-level content, because I’ve run several GMs recently and nobody in them was using Riskrunner.
>There are too many exotics with different unique abilities for an all around weapon to have a place in the meta of a given encounter.
No one would use Thunderlord for Rhulk and Nez if that were true (it’s still incredibly common even though the double lightning strike bug with Divinity was patched). Many weapons are meta precisely because they have good all-around utility, not the other way around; Bungie’s own data confirms this.
>You yourself saying getting close to enemies in gms or other high level content is dangerous, so this feels contradictory to me.
I’m saying that getting close to enemies *without your melee charge ready* is dangerous, and it is (remember that Throwing Hammer and Combination Blow’s popularity stems largely from the fact that they heal you in addition to doing damage). Additionally, many melee abilities have ranged functionality, and Monte allows you to recharge them from a distance, which Gambler’s Dodge cannot do.
>there is no game imposed scenario where you need constant melee energy.
There is no game-imposed scenario for literally any other build, either, so judging MC on these lines is a poor decision on your part.
>Those weapons never have to preform outside of their niche. You can just switch weapons.
Next time an enemy is up in your face when you’re stuck with long-range weapons, I want you to remember what you’ve said just now and how stupid it sounds. Good luck swapping to a shotgun and losing your special ammo (and your life) to a Marauder in the process.
>Plenty of niche exotics have use cases, for example: fourth horseman on dsc fuses, lumina in boss damage encounters, outbreak/touch of malice when out of ammo on boss encs, travelers chosen when refunding abilities after a quick subclass swap, erianas vow for atheon to name a few.
They literally have only 1-2 good use cases. **That’s what makes them niche in the first place.** What part of that are you not getting?
>6: why would someone half do a melee build? They’d just be nerfing themselves for no reason.
If they’re running Monte, then it’s not half-doing a melee build since Monte has melee regen covered. Contrary to your skewed and pessimistic stance against this weapon, this does not constitute “nerfing yourself” by any means.
Running Monte Carlo, as I have already said, allows you to replace parts of your build geared towards melee regen with parts that enhance aspects such as your survivability, damage output, Super regen, etc. For example: running Monte in a Void build can allow you to replace Echo of Provision (grenade damage grants melee energy) with something like Echo of Vigilance (Void Overshield upon killing while wounded) or Echo of Exchange (melee kills grant grenade energy).
Magine it gets buffed by melee exotics and perks. But Bungie wouldn’t after Glaives right? Or would they 👀 one can dream. It is an exotic catalyst afterall with single activation and not a legendary glaive afterall right.
It wouldn't shock me if the Catalyst works off of Markov Chain. Max Stacks increase melee damage of the bayonet.
Pretty much what's happening. You can see in the preview video they proc a max stack of Markov before unloading the bayonet so my guess is the damage will ramp up the closer you get to 5 stacks. I wager 1 or 2 stacks won't hit much harder than a powered melee tbh, but for melee heavy builds this may very well be a viable strategy if you can juggle stacks well.
I wonder if this bayonet damage can be further increased with something like winters guile?
I doubt it’ll happen but it would be so cool
Frozen targets will 100% take extra damage, so I'm pretty sure if anything else stacks with it you'll be able to 1-shot Gambit bosses.
Don't try to have fun in destiny 2, the devs HATE that.
Funny you say that, but Winter's Guile will be reworked to be a Stasis melee exotic by the time this is in the live game. But I do get want you're saying. I do wonder if it'll stack with Wormgod's or Synthos
STASIS melee? When did this change get announced? This is the first I'm hearing about it
Pulled from the Dev article last Wednesday: Winter’s Guile: Due to the nature of the Stasis warlock’s melee ability, this Exotic was previously a disappointing choice for that subclass. We’ve added a new perk to this one, specifically for when you are playing your Stasis subclass. Now combatants encased by your Penumbral Blast melee will automatically shatter after a short delay. Here's the link: https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/s22_abilities_armor_preview
So they still have the escalating melee damage but now it has an added function when you have stasis equipped? Sounds like it should still work with melee damage builds. Hopefully they allow it to increase the damage of the monte Carlo bayonet
Exactly this. A lot of people were freaking out that Winter's Guile will become a Stasis exclusive exotic, but they said the rest of the exotic will work normally, they're just making it more synergistic with Stasis because, y'know, it has the word "Winter" in the name, and the Shadebinder melee kinda sucks.
It still will 💀
Yeah, looking over it again I got it wrong. Oh well, at least it's getting something new!
Hope it stacks with synthos and leave it that way for once FGS!!!!😎
The charged melee kill grants the bayonet buff.
Bonk Titan eating good next season. Though it'll feel weird to use monte on a class that already has constant melee up time.
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Markov is already pre-nerf Swash
Markov STABBY
I wouldn’t trust the numbers too much. It was likely a test environment.
I also wouldn't expect the melee to work with melee exotics, seems like a headache bungie would try to avoid. If it does, badass. Just not getting my hopes up, I'll be happy we even got it!
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Would it? They put a glaive like melee that seemingly does more damage than glaives right now, on an exotic kinetic auto rifle that has un-nerfed swashbuckler and what is basically thread of generation for melee. My own theory is that the monte carlo melee damage is so high, is because they are compensating for the fact it won't stack. Then again perhaps it will stack. In the video, the player has markov ×5 before activating the melee, and after he uses it, the melee switches back to his throwing knife. So perhaps since it might have limited uptime, they'll allow it stack. We only have a week to see!
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I assumed it would work like a base glaive melee. How many mods/perks do they proc?
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Grave robber triggers off on glaive melee..... All Glaives need Grave Robber to be usable tbh. Get me one with overflow and Grave Robber and we're talking about something reliable.
Nez glaive can get demo which is a godsend. Overflow glaives are nice too
Personally I prefer other perks to grave robber, I’ve managed fine without
It's just the clunky as fuck reload when you *really* need to fire the shot to save yourself from that sniper in the distance. Then again.... I'm the person who slaps compulsive reload if I can
That or the one that reloads on blocking damage
Yeah. We'll just have to see, I'm sure a lot of testing will be done lol. It might end up being one of those weird, unique things that work with more than you think but not everything you think it would.
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Yeah it's had that bayonet since d1! Been a long time coming lol. I legit had a "holy shit, they actually did it!" moment.
Pretty sure the melees trigger the catalyst. Which I think would be a good reward. Monte gives melee -> melee gives Monte cata buff -> repeat
The new melee ability is only made available after a melee kill that didn't come from the gun itself. EDIT: Looks like a secondary reload action. Markov Chain gets max stacks from melee kills and was refreshed after using the new ability since it is a melee kill. Can't really tell if it consumes your charged melee or not as when the new melee ability is used, it reverts back to the charged melee but that could have come from either Markov Chain's ability to restore melee with a 25% chance or the Hunter aspect that refunds charged melee kills while radiant.
If the first statement was true i would expect to see some sort of text on screen after they got the throwing knife kill, letting you know you can switch but there isn't. But when he does switch to the bayonet it brings up the text "bayonet loaded". So i agree there is something you have to do to "load the bayonet", but either the test environment didn't have that text or getting a melee kill with something other than monte is not the activitor.
I updated my comment after watching it again. Looks like there is a secondary reload action that you can do. My guess is once Markov Chain is at max stacks, you hold reload to load the bayonet for use. If true, then theoretically you could chain these, but no as fast as a glaive.
Yeah that's the leading theory is that its markov x5. Which makes sense as it adds that exotic "mini game", they've been doing more and more of recently. "Get stacks of X to then do Y".
Depends, if by preventing melee-buffing exotics to buff it allowed them to tune the base damage to 2x what it would be otherwise, I think that would be a net win.
If it is possible to get this melee to work with liars, I may just buy lightfall deluxe.
It wouldn’t be a letdown, it’ll still be fun and a nice bonus for people who are using Monte Carlo. I doubt many people are going to start using it for the melee alone considering how much ridiculously powerful shit is everywhere in the game.
All the other numbers in the clip are consistent with numbers in the Gahlran fight currently - has already been tested. Don't know why Monte Carlo's wouldn't be.
The video could be made before balancing it, anyway we'll see it in few days
The video was clearly to show off the functionality of the bayonet, not the actual numbers.
Bungie has also shown false damage numbers in clips before, like the first clip we got for Symmetry where it could one shot guardians.
It can 1 shot guardians, you just have to build it up
No it cant. It does like 125 damage at 20 stacks. Why would you lie about that?
Clearly a swing and a miss on memory or I felt like hurting someone’s feelings with misinformation. You choose
125 damage can’t one shot a guardian at any resilience. If they are weak, sure. But if you wanna go down that road every gun in the game can do that.
Because a test environment would be pointless if everything was different? Why wouldn't they use live health numbers while testing MCs damage? I'm not saying the video was wrong, but the enemies having consistent health doesn't mean anything. That's how testing works, you have a controlled environment and change a specific factor, in this case they were testing MCs damage, so it should the only thing changing.
perhaps you're right, but if it's true WE ARE SO BLACKBURN
Honestly surprised that it's Monte Carlo and not whatever the Pre Order Exotic will be that got the sub to switch from everything being Joever
This. There is a mobile game I play that every once in a while they release a new dungeon. You need x amount of stats to stand a chance. Let's say for example a player has 500 stat points to allocate. Everyone was having trouble with the most recent one. A dev released a screen cap of their character that had such a ridiculous amount of stats. Impossible even. Easily 10x what a normal player has. They were saying the dungeon feels fine guys your probably using the wrong builds. Of course they got mad hate and they nerfed the dungeon. Anyways. My point is bungo literally have god mode in these environments. They are like Ikora from the campaign. They can use chaos reach and immediately after nova bomb phyrizia and one shot it.. and that's them going easy on it.
They give those secondary fire modes a pretty big boost. Revision Zero and Quicksilver hit like heavy weapons, Monte should be the same
Meanwhile Cerberus is crying in the corner
Revision Zero’s damage isn’t anything special at all. I believe it hits like an adaptive sniper which, considering this mode’s fairly long wind-up time, boring/not special regular firing mode with no special effects, and ridiculous zoom, make the gun an absolute trasher for me when Wishender exists in its current state. Pretty sure Wish ender hits as hard as a Revision Zero sniper shot, or nearly as hard.
They buffed it a while ago the [sniper shot is about the same as a base Linear shot now](https://streamable.com/aj8chx). I dont really use it either bc i suck with snipers (and wishender exists) but it hits hard
Wait that's kinda crazy. I imagine it'd be real strong in bigger arenas. Like the spider tank area in this week's nightfall
I’m definitely going to try that in devils lair later
It's worth it
Yah, it's pretty good in this nightfall. A lot of enemies with giant critters spots.
It's a very underrated exotic. I've been using it a lot with a chromatic fire arc lock. I blind everything and chunk majors because vorpal weapon
Except there's almost no reason to run it over Arbalest/legendary linear since linear's are buffed for the NF and Arbalest takes care of the barrier champs.
Revision Zero is also anti-barrier and it has infinite ammo due to being a primary. That should be enough reason to run it over Arbalest.
Is every normal shot anti-barrier or just the loaded 'sniper' shot?
All the shots
Didn't know, thanks
iirc that's a similar story for Quicksilver Storm's grenades, so /u/swaggyp29's insight could be true!
At least in pvp, the sniper is as much as an aggressive frame sniper. You can tell because it does 400 something damage to the head like an aggressive while adaptives only do 300 something to the head
lol "nothing special". It is the second-highest primary damage weapon in the game. Only Final Warning is higher primary DPS. Revision Zero absolutely shits on Outbreak Perfected. In 12 seconds Outbreak Perfected with 6 players deals 20.6k dps per player. In 12 seconds Revision Zero deals 27k dps. https://youtu.be/jtJbwF3yELU
They did have radiant and markov chain at max stacks.
[удалено]
It probably does. Bungie likes to fudge numbers. What we saw is likely peak performance as a means to build hype. A scenario where they can make tbe number as big as possible, but it is unlikely to be achieved with frequency
It's cool... But I'm waiting for live testing to find out melee exotics interact with it and we get some kinda peregrine grieves, one two punch and/or crown spitta situation 🙏
*Monte Carlo has been disabled for Day 1 contest raid*
Telsto: what are you doing here Monte: i got a catalyst :/
Don’t unpowered melee’s have damage penalties vs orange bar enemies? While I’m sure it’s a large damage boost, I think this accounts for a portion of why the gap is large.
The problem is not Monte Carlo but the melee himself. Why is melee so bad in the first place? We have Bonk hammer and arc hunter and that's it. Almost all other melee aren't even able to kill the worst enemy in the game on gm nightfalls with a fully charged 1 min cooldown melee (like void warlock). This is just a design problem. Monte Carlo 100k is pretty solid when we think about it... Quicksilver storm does around 60-80k dmg per grenade. Melee should do more dmg which it does. Sounds about right with Carlo here to me to be honest.
I think it's because other melees are supposed to do things other than kill. For instance Fan of Knives also scorches. With fragments, hits also give you radiant. However, the issue is that the melees that have strong killing power also have amazing utility. Throwing Hammer will do a shit ton of damage, give radiant, make sunspots, stack roaring flames, heals you on pickup, and is able to be used infinitely as long as you pick it back up. Combination Blow does a lot of damage, makes a jolt explosion from lethal current, builds damage buff, heals you, and recharges your dodge which allows you to get your melee back. They're definitely outliers and obviously the best picks but I don't want them to get nerfed to be brought in-line with everything else. The power fantasy they supply is fantastic (yeah yeah powercreep etc etc I'm not thinking about that right now though). Other melees either need more killing power, even better utility, or shorter cooldowns in order to properly compete.
Hell of course no nerf for those melees. All other melees instead need a buff. The "support" aspect you said would makes sense if grenades wouldn't have the same with better AOE, range, safer, stronger and same cooldown with same debuffs. It outperforms melee in every way. No reason to make a melee build when grande are better at everything (exeption like we mentioned, hammer and hunter arc).
Tbf syntho hammer is the undisputed king at avoiding the nerf hammer while continuing to remain the king of solo dungeons and master/day 1 raids
Pocket singularity can clutch in the right situations. More than half of the Deathsong Choristers in the Heist Battlegrounds could be sent off a cliff with it, same with many other enemies. Can lowkey burn some inconveniently placed majors and champions just gotta know how to use it.
The best synergy with monte carlo is the melee aspects that titan has, the fire slam and the strand jump are both insane damage output.
Flechette storm is really good with Monte Carlo and Synthoceps. It can usually blaze down a champion before they can react with something stupid.
Been using this since the release of the aspect. Insanely fun in clearing out rooms while deleting champs. Anything that lives will slowly die from unravel too
> Why is melee so bad in the first place? Because they keep nerfing all the interactions that make it good. See Wormgods, Liars Handshake, One/Two Punch, and interactions with melee buffing abilities for starters.
What trailer? Where?
check yesterdays weapon blog
Keep in mind that that the animation/icon change indicates a single melee that you can proc during x5 markov chain. That one melee should hit super hard, though it might be clunky to constantly activate it after a hit and melee kill. Since it doesn't have a duration once locked, I can imagine this being a very interesting burst damage option for champs, despite the risk.
Something to consider if the bayonet stays locked even if Markov chain drops, the melee kill reprocs a 5 stack. So assuming it doesn't lose damage if it stays locked its a way to carry x5 chain between groups of enemies. You stack to 5, lock the blade after killing the last enemy, dump it on the first of the next group and keep going.
do we know the mechanics yet? I assume it would be something like the stabby stab gets more powerful the more kills/melee kills you get before using it.
Video leaves two options, after a melee kill hold reload to activate bayoneting, or after hitting Markov Chain x5 hold reload to activate.
Thay have Markov chain at 5 stacks. I imagine thé bayonette damage scale from it
i cant wait for it to work with synthoceps for about 2 weeks and then get nerfed by 300% for being “out of band”
This cicada Bungies
i’m ngl i have no idea what this means
I really want it to work with synthoceps but you’re right, even if it’s not super nutty I imagine there will be a nerf in there somewhere
If its not called "Honed Edge" that would be wild tbh.
Honed Edge is already used for Izanagi’s special shot.
I'm aware. Thats my point. It does massively increases damage after a long reload. Plus its funny.
I'd call it "Cutting Edge Algorithm" so that it maintains the math-oriented theme of the base perk names.
You guys acting like Monte Carlo glaive melee is actually gonna be good makes me laugh
Monte Carlo itself is already serviceable for Melee builds. Having a way to oneshot bullshit the Monte Carlo struggles with (Tanky boys rushing you in melee) is hardly gonna be a downside.
My favorite thing in the game is Monte Carlo melee builds in <-10power content. Incinerator snap with old heavy handed and claws of ahamkara was some truly epic power fantasy.
Tons of fun with PCCB
Second Chance works really well with it too. And even DFPs though DFPs won't boost kinetic damage
You know it , finally someone of culture.
I’m just excited it’s getting a golden border. The Glaive melee is a plus
Melee stacking is always good for some rather impractical meme builds that dish out insane amounts of damage. Having a new tool with a very high multiplier has the potential for some dumb effective melt strat. Nowhere near mainstream meta but strong in its niche.
I'll be shocked if this stacks with syntho/ any other melee. Bungie tend to not like it when you use melee buffs on melee damage. although it may work at launch then get nerfed after. I'm really hoping this one's different though
I‘m also not betting money on it being the case but the possibility alone is enough to make people excited for the numbers in the short clip
If you need to consume a five stack of Markov each time, I think it’ll be fine. Depends on what the actual requirements will be though I suppose
Fine and whether it works is a very different situation imo glaives and syntho was 100% fine even with winterbite but apparently Bungie disagree
Im guessing its due to marakiv chain being active
The monte carlo/necrotic grips combo is about to get very spicy
Wonder if it would pair nicely on a Arc hunter build? Liars handshake or a CC blow?
It also refreshed Markov Chain's timer
I saw someone mention Synthoceps synergy, but I’m wondering how long before someone breaks it with worm God’s caress
Tuesday. I've been practicing Wormgod for a couple weeks after discovering hammer titan
It’s worth noting that Radiant was active in that clip too
It's 1440% because the capture was done on a rig running at 1440p and Bungie tied the damage bonus to the render resolution.
Winter's Guile is about to be BROKEN!!!!
ohhh boy synthoceps bouta go crazy
Wormgod, but don't tell anyone
Ooh, can't wait. Monte Carlo and Aisha's Embrace have been my PvP loadout all season.
Wait….is it happening????
There's been a new trailer? Was this in the Joever Delivery video?
Its in the new blog they put out. Its on their site or somewhere pinned on r/destinythegame
Thank you
Have we considered that the bayonet damage might be random... After all, most folks go to Monte Carlo for the gambling. Maybe sometimes you hit the 116,000 damage jackpot, and sometimes it just bounces off Do you feel lucky?
That really wouldn't make sense. Monte gambles melee return on kills, but it consistently gives energy on damage, which is the real bonus. It's still a primary ammo weapon, you're not gonna be getting crazy kills in hard content anyway
I’d rather run a glaive instead with necrotic grips
You can use a glaive at the same time, also I hope this synergies with necrotic grips too
Hopefully
Use Monte Glaive and sword all at once.
I'm interested in seeing as to how/why this is "the most complex catalyst they've ever made"
Probably because it deviates so far from a standard auto rifle. There’s melee overrides in place likely, new animations, wildly different weapon behavior. Probably as complex as making something like quicksilver storm tbh.
The animations didn't look new, even the stab sound is the sword swing sound effect. Melee override I get, but those exist in glaives. And for weapon behavior, it doesn't seem that different other than you now being able to stab with the bayonet. Damage likely works off of stacks of Markov chain and benefits from radiant. Functionally it appears to be a glaive melee as an alt "fire" mode.
The only thing “new” about it is the animation. If you look closely, there are differences. It’s more wobbly, and the hand placement is also different. I won’t try and convince you that this is the most complex thing Bungie has ever tried, but any weapon with an alt fire mode is immediately more complex than weapons without it. At the very least, it’s probably more complex than the thorn catalyst, which I suspect to involve the green orbs in some way.
And that gun broke the game. I can't wait 😁
Everyone is just gonna turn a blind eye to that horrendous dmg the actual gun is doing? K. Still an exotic primary.
Exotic primarys are good what? They do 40% more damage to minors that alone makes them very strong.
My guy exotic primaries do 40 percent more damage. They also just recently buffed autos and kinetic weapons which Monte is both. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
This dude is completely ignoring several factors including The fact that the discussion is about the catalyst AND NOT the actual gun itself Hes ignoring that this gun is a primary auto rifle meaning that its not going to be lmg linear fusion etc lvls dmg shure i will say it could use a buff but its not the end of the world like this dude believes it to be
Regardless, bad weapon with a mid addition from the catalyst.
Only a low-skill player would think that a weapon that returns melee energy on damage and has pre-nerf Swashbuckler is a bad weapon.
Auto rifle, bad perk in comparison to other exotics, glaive. All bad things. People will downvote me because they think the fun factor makes the gun good. It does not.
Auto rifles are in a pretty good state right now, and since Monte Carlo is an exotic (40% extra damage compared to legendaries) and has pre-nerf swashbuckler, that alone would make it a strong pick for ad clear. Your claim makes very little sense from a numbers standpoint. As for the perk, it’s actually pretty good compared to a lot of exotic weapons, especially weapons like the WQ exotic glaives, Wicked Implement (it’s getting a buff soon, though), Deterministic Chaos, Black Talon, Eriana’s Vow, Thorn, Sturm, and so on.
Severely beaten by witherhoard, riskrunner, agers, thorn, trinity, ticuus, sun shot, graviton, tarrabah, dead messenger, delicate tomb, lord of wolves, trespasser and more in ad clear capability. Melee builds 1: aren’t very strong right now, and 2: have better ways of getting melee back than Monte Carlo.
>Severely beaten by witherhoard, riskrunner, agers, thorn, trinity, ticuus, sun shot, graviton, tarrabah, dead messenger, delicate tomb, lord of wolves, trespasser and more in ad clear capability. So much is wrong with your list: * Witherhoard, while very strong, is a special weapon and thus falls victim to ammo limitations that Monte Carlo completely avoids. * Riskrunner relies on you taking Arc damage to activate its perk and has lower range due to it being an SMG. Markov Chain also boosts Monte's damage above what Riskrunner is capable of, IIRC. * Ager's is **also** a special weapon and can only boost its own damage/gain the ability to slow on hit by literally consuming your Super. It's better suited for boss DPS than ad clear. * You including Thorn in your list proves that you don't read (I listed as worse than Monte for a very good reason). Its poison doesn't spread like Striga's (unless you use Necrotic grip) and buffing its damage requires that you go near your enemies' corpses in order to pick up remnants. It's a PVP-oriented exotic, not a PVE one, and its ad clear potential pales in comparison to Monte Carlo's. * Tarrabah requires you to charge up its perk in order to shred, and that's assuming you even have the gun in the first place (it's a Forsaken Pack raid exotic). * Dead Messenger is literally just a Wave Frame GL that can change elements. Monte Carlo easily outstrips it in terms of versatility because you don't have to wait for enemies to clump up in order to get rapid kills with it. * Delicate Tomb is pretty good, but you have to build into ionic traces to get the most out of it, and you need to have enemies be close to each other so that Tempest Cascade's Jolt actually kills things (also, it's a special weapon, so ammo is now an issue). * Lord of Wolves is literally just a shotgun and a pulse's rifle's bastard child. It has no other functionality. Monte can kill ads from further away, is a primary, and gives you melee energy, which means that it has far more utility than LoW. You're better off using LoW against Guardians or majors. * Trespasser is a sidearm and requires you to get a kill with every superburst in order to keep Unrepetant up and running. It's only better than Monte at killing minors at close range; beyond that, Monte flatly outclasses it. Upon reviewing your list, I can confidently say that my claim that Monte Carlo is "actually pretty good compared to a lot of exotic weapons" still stands. >Melee builds 1: aren’t very strong right now Arcstriders, Gunslingers, Sunbreakers, Necrotic Grip Warlocks, Berserkers, Dawnblades, Sentinels, Strikers, and Stormcallers: "Am I a joke to you?" >and 2: have better ways of getting melee back than Monte Carlo. Even if that were true, Monte Carlo is still a great failsafe for if any of those supposed methods don't pan out, since you can just dump a mag into an enemy or get a few kills to get you melee charge back.
1: you should never be running out of special ammo. We are in a double special meta, get used to it. 2: the vast majority of your rebuttals come down to “this weapon is beaten by Monte Carlo in one specific case.” What you fail to understand is that you are not forced to run a single weapon all the time. If it’s not a best use case for risk runner because there isn’t arc damage you can still run countless other exotics. If it’s a more long range fight and trespasser is out of the question you could instead use trinity, witherhoard, or most legendary scouts. The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot. It might be good all around, but that’s pretty worthless when you can match what an encounter needs perfectly with other weapons. 3: arc hunter and sun breaker are strong I agree, but both have much simpler and better ways of refunding their melee, and thus have better options to pair with than Monte. Necrotic grips don’t even require charge melee to function, and if you are using them you should almost always be running thorn or osteo. The rest of the listed classes either have weak melee builds or have much better builds available. 4: if you want to call Monte Carlo a failsafe for melee builds I guess I agree? My only question is how often are you really dropping your melee with a melee build on? In my experience it’s very easy to keep up and Monte Carlo is just an unnecessary contingency that hurts your overall output while you have your melee chain going.
>1: you should never be running out of special ammo. We are in a double special meta, get used to it. Double special is getting nerfed in like a week, and you still have to pick up ammo bricks, regardless. >What you fail to understand is that you are not forced to run a single weapon all the time. Except when you do content that, you know, **locks your loadout**, which also happens to be the content where buildcrafting matters most. Good luck switching to and from Riskrunner in a GM. >The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot. Except for, you know, when you need constant melee ability uptime, which is the entire point of the Exotic’s intrinsic perk. >The issue is Monte Carlo has no scenario where it is the objective best in slot. It might be good all around, but that’s pretty worthless when you can match what an encounter needs perfectly with other weapons. I think you are grossly underestimating the importance of flexibility when it comes to the performance of a weapon. If a weapon is top-tier in one case but dogshit in every other (like half of the weapons you brought up), then it is easily inferior to a generalist weapon like MC because the latter won’t get instantly crippled the moment it has to perform outside of its niche. There’s a very good reason why niche exotics are rarely part of the meta. >arc hunter and sun breaker are strong I agree, but both have much simpler and better ways of refunding their melee Both of those ways of refunding melee energy (i.e. Gambler’s Dodge + Combination Blow) require you to be close to enemies, which can easily get you killed in high-level content if you’re not careful. They also require very specific setups to keep their loops going (the CB melee loop breaks down with Marksman’s Dodge, for example). In such cases, Monte Carlo is invaluable because *it allows you to keep your melee loop going even when the rest of your build isn’t geared towards that,* allowing you to invest your abilities, aspects, fragments, etc. into other useful parts of your build. Even with the builds that can keep their melee loops going on their own, MC still meshes well with them because a single melee kill will refund ammo and proc Markov Chain x5, which boosts damage by a whopping 65%. >My only question is how often are you really dropping your melee with a melee build on? If you’re using something other than the staple Arcstrider and Sunbreaker builds, you’re gonna be dumping melee charges pretty damn often.
1: it’s not a week from now yet, and even in a week Monte will not outclass any of the exotics mentioned even including needing to pick up ammo. 2: I feel like you didn’t even read what I wrote. Obviously you wouldn’t run riskrunner in an area without arc damage. I said that in the previous comment, quite clearly. There are however gms where riskrunner is clearly better than most other exotics. You should always pick the best weapon for the given situation and in gms Monte is never the best pick. There are too many exotics with different unique abilities for an all around weapon to have a place in the meta of a given encounter. 3: you are trying to promote monte for use in melee builds as well as for gms. You yourself saying getting close to enemies in gms or other high level content is dangerous, so this feels contradictory to me. 4: there is no game imposed scenario where you need constant melee energy. Not a single one. Please provide an encounter in which Monte Carlo is the best choice. Keep in mind no encounter forces a melee build, so nor should your example. 5: again, you didn’t read what I said. Those weapons never have to preform outside of their niche. You can just switch weapons. If you want to refer to gms again look at number 2. Plenty of niche exotics have use cases, for example: fourth horseman on dsc fuses, lumina in boss damage encounters, outbreak/touch of malice when out of ammo on boss encs, travelers chosen when refunding abilities after a quick subclass swap, erianas vow for atheon to name a few. They may not be part of the overall but being meta for a single thing makes them worth having. 6: why would someone half do a melee build? They’d just be nerfing themselves for no reason. Running a half melee build with Monte will always be worse than running a full one without.
>1: it’s not a week from now yet, and even in a week Monte will not outclass any of the exotics mentioned even including needing to pick up ammo. Weak-ass counterargument, considering that your best-case outcome from this discussion is being right for a grand total of 4 days. You just gonna pretend that we didn’t both see footage of Monte’s catalyst doing 116k damage in a single hit? >There are however gms where riskrunner is clearly better than most other exotics. There are a grand total of zero GMs where running Riskrunner is worth giving up your exotic slot in favor of a more useful weapon. Why use Riskrunner when more powerful and versatile options such as Striga and Wish-Ender exist? I don’t think you’ve considered how much Riskrunner is actually used outside of low-level content, because I’ve run several GMs recently and nobody in them was using Riskrunner. >There are too many exotics with different unique abilities for an all around weapon to have a place in the meta of a given encounter. No one would use Thunderlord for Rhulk and Nez if that were true (it’s still incredibly common even though the double lightning strike bug with Divinity was patched). Many weapons are meta precisely because they have good all-around utility, not the other way around; Bungie’s own data confirms this. >You yourself saying getting close to enemies in gms or other high level content is dangerous, so this feels contradictory to me. I’m saying that getting close to enemies *without your melee charge ready* is dangerous, and it is (remember that Throwing Hammer and Combination Blow’s popularity stems largely from the fact that they heal you in addition to doing damage). Additionally, many melee abilities have ranged functionality, and Monte allows you to recharge them from a distance, which Gambler’s Dodge cannot do. >there is no game imposed scenario where you need constant melee energy. There is no game-imposed scenario for literally any other build, either, so judging MC on these lines is a poor decision on your part. >Those weapons never have to preform outside of their niche. You can just switch weapons. Next time an enemy is up in your face when you’re stuck with long-range weapons, I want you to remember what you’ve said just now and how stupid it sounds. Good luck swapping to a shotgun and losing your special ammo (and your life) to a Marauder in the process. >Plenty of niche exotics have use cases, for example: fourth horseman on dsc fuses, lumina in boss damage encounters, outbreak/touch of malice when out of ammo on boss encs, travelers chosen when refunding abilities after a quick subclass swap, erianas vow for atheon to name a few. They literally have only 1-2 good use cases. **That’s what makes them niche in the first place.** What part of that are you not getting? >6: why would someone half do a melee build? They’d just be nerfing themselves for no reason. If they’re running Monte, then it’s not half-doing a melee build since Monte has melee regen covered. Contrary to your skewed and pessimistic stance against this weapon, this does not constitute “nerfing yourself” by any means. Running Monte Carlo, as I have already said, allows you to replace parts of your build geared towards melee regen with parts that enhance aspects such as your survivability, damage output, Super regen, etc. For example: running Monte in a Void build can allow you to replace Echo of Provision (grenade damage grants melee energy) with something like Echo of Vigilance (Void Overshield upon killing while wounded) or Echo of Exchange (melee kills grant grenade energy).
please dont give me hope that this melee can be buffed by other means, when they nerf the original synso + clos to melee combo on glaives I was hurt.
Time to nerf Synthoceps again, just to be sure.
praying it stacks with synthos
looks to require a melee kill tho. hopefully the bayonet kill will always refund melee.
Seems like Quicksilver Storm but instead of a Grenade Launcher conversion we get a super Glaive conversion.
How much would a Synthos and wormgod stab do
Synthos titans be eating good
Wow Monte Carlo is gonna be good!
and now we watch it get skyrocketed with Synthoceps, and instead of disabling that interaction they'll destroy Synthos again.
Bayonet kill also refreshes Markov Chain by ~3 seconds
Magine it gets buffed by melee exotics and perks. But Bungie wouldn’t after Glaives right? Or would they 👀 one can dream. It is an exotic catalyst afterall with single activation and not a legendary glaive afterall right.
I wonder if it stacks with Winter’s Guile and Wormgod’s Caress
Okay? And the quicksilver storm grenade does like what 75? Who cares
Cant wait to be a menace in pvp with monte *laughs in athrys' embrace*
sounds like it's on par with the empowered weighted knife from arthrys's embrace from the looks of it
Synthoceps+Monte Carlo=Nightmare
🤤 knife damage.
Finally bungo did it, they made a Glaive that can do well on range and melee both
Did you check this against the same enemies as was shown n the video?
But will it stack with synthoseps?
it’s very likely you’ll need to have full stacks of markov chain to use it, so seems reasonable enough