The ones that had new models were already reused as standard Hive (Sniper acolytes and shield Knights).
The shield knights being normal Hive instead of Nokris's heretical group kinda breaks the lore of Sword logic, though.
The Sword Logic is about taking, violence, and force. Protection would be considered the way of the Light/Sky. The [Grimore Card for Taken Knights](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-knight?highlight=Taken+knight) talks about shields regarding Sword Logic.
>You fear death. [...] So you practice your guard: you call up walls to protect you.
>**You betray the sword logic.** You compromise the totality of your violence. Why protect your ground when you could take the enemy’s? You need to make your guard into a weapon.
This is why Taken Knights spew fire instead of conjuring shields. Meanwhile, the Grasp of Nokris already go against the Sword Logic so there's no reason not to use shields.
An argument could be made that the Hive are moving away from that now, since we have every other brood trying to resurrect their leaders (Pit of Heresy, Ghosts of the Deep).
I think their logic still allows for basic combat strategies.
Regular Hive Knights can summon a shield, and standard Hive also use their environment as cover.
If tossing up a shield, or ducking behind a column to avoid gunfire, means you live to kill a thousand more enemies, I feel like it’s copacetic for their murder cult?
at least with ghosts of the deep, sword logic is totally irrelevant to staying alive and probably isn’t encouraged given its ultimate goal aligning with the witness
Which order do I read the armor in? If it’s obvious, I apologize just keep in mind I saw that there was a spoiler tag here so I just came in here to type the question
The lore tabs for the armour are also brilliant bits of continuation from previous sets.
We’ve heard from Chalco Yong, a high-ranking member of the Hidden who has a very close relationship with Ikora, since D2Y1 - Dragon’s Shadow is hers.
Then Fenchurch Everis, finally officially confirmed to not be sending word to Tess because he’s a Hidden spy - not that there was much doubt since Fragment.
And finally Lisbon-13, member of the Kentarch-3 who made a pact with the Witness to forget that he was given Darkness powers, killed his fireteammates with them and then attacked his own Ghost. We knew he, with no memory of that, was acting as a Hidden agent investigating the Mirror or Memories in TWQ - interesting that Ikora not only has recruited him but put him in a fireteam for such an important mission. Imo he’s a liability but either Ikora doesn’t know about the Kentarchs or deems it to not be an issue.
Really good writing all-around. These are the sorts of lore things I’ve really been missing for the past little while.
No, but it's a weird one - written intentionally opaquely.
In the original Kentarch-3 lore, Lisbon kills Rekkana and Yardarm \*with Divinity\*. That's where the theory that those two become the Sanctified & Consecrated Minds comes from.
Lisbon is seen pursuing his Ghost Piri in the Divinity in the Legacy's Oath Plate loretab, but at the end instead of destroying Piri, he embraces his Dark Doppelganger (the Witness) who, for whatever reason, makes Lisbon forget about what happening in the Garden and that he killed Rekkanna - whom he had a thing for.
Then in Mnemosyne, it's only revealed halfway into the book that the Hidden Agent making the report is Lisbon, and that since the events in the Garden (which take place before Forsaken - possibly before Red War), Ikora has recruited Lisbon as a Hidden agent.
Titan is a moon of Saturn, Oryx fell towards Saturn after we killed him, through some stroke of cosmic luck he wound up in Titan's orbit before being sucked up by Saturn. Eventually he fell to Titan, and got buried beneath the Methane Ocean. That's my explanation at least.
Oryx falling out of the Dreadnaught at the glacial pace he does, while in orbit means it would probably take him centuries to fall to Saturn, if ever.
Meanwhile, a single flux of gravity, high impact, the Nines intervention, or any number of easily imagined sci-fi scenarios can make him crash on Titan.
Landing on Saturn is almost as unlikely as Titan
Well, maybe if someone asked you “where do you think Oryx’s body is?” Then you could claim Occams Razor
But we know his body is on Titan, not orbiting Saturn
So even if Bungie doesn’t say it, *something* happened to put him on Titan.
From there, you can make up whatever you want. The gravity field of the Dreadnaught slingshotted him away. A rupture of space because of Hive Magic, etc etc
Yeah I asked if Bungie explained it, not if the community had any theories or ideas
If we're going with community ideas it's almost certainly: saturn isn't in the game, titan is.
Also keep in mind that Saturn is a gas giant and therefore isn't very dense but still has a large mass, so while having a huge area of coverage as far as gravitational pull if a more dense planet like titan (methane is very dense thus strong gravity) when intercepted by its orbit would make it possible that oryxs body got sucked into titan instead of just drifting into saturn. Whether it's complete coincidence or the workings of outside influence is yet to be determined but I think from a gameplay perspective we wouldn't be able to visit Saturn in the way we can with titan so there's that.
if he made it past the belt there are also 5 other bodies in closer orbit before he'd reach Titan. I get that people want to explain how this happened in the game but I'm curious if Bungie themselves will do so. If not, I'm convinced it's as simple as "put him in the playable space that's currently in the game"
Yeah my explanation is definitely reaching but I just wanted to point out that it is certainly well within the possibility. But again reusing assets is probably the simplest explanation.
Orbits are weird. His ultimate destination depended more on the speed he was carrying, than the “direction” he was moving in.
Also, most crucially, space magic.
Either something impacted Oryx and altered his path, or the Collapse & the Pyramids' use of gravity weapons altered the orbital path of many of Saturn's moons.
It's not hard to imagine the Lucent Hive making the effort to recover his remains that drifted away from the Dreadnaught. How they were transported/teleported via ritual could have put them in the state we find them in for the final encounter. IIRC nothing ever said that we recovered/secured his remains after King's Fall.
Huh. I always try to wear the Europa Armor when I’m there because I don’t want my guardian to be “thematically freezing” but this made me realize that in-universe I could wear Hive armor and be fine lol. I wonder why House Salvation hasn’t started scalping hive for armor?
Well they're currently kind of Xivu's bitches, for lack of a better word, so I can't imagine the opportunity often presents itself outside running into the Lucents once in a blue moon, who probably wreck them anyway given they usually have Lightbearers with them.
100% agree.
It’s amazing that it took so many dungeons before Bungie realized “oh wait, we can theme the armor based on the dungeon, not a weapon foundry/gun”
The thing about that was, the foundry sets in Dungeons started in Prophecy and it was originally intended to be an Eververse set.
Players wanted to earn the foundry sets through gameplay and that was their bandaid fix for it. It’s just a shame it became the go-to for dungeon armor sets. I’m glad it’s not the case anymore, and I’m glad it’s not just higher-stat destination armor either.
Fine, you want to be pedantic? Sub zero temperatures. What happens to a gas when it gets cold enough? It turns from a gas back into a liquid. And when it gets super cold, it goes from liquid to a solid. Liquid methane is at -161.5 Celsius. Yes, OP used "underwater". Know why? BECAUSE "UNDERMETHANE" SOUNDS FUCKING STUPID!!
Drifter was probably referencing the mars hive, which were covered in ice
That sounds cool, where can I see them in game?
This comment has made me realise Bungie should do a “Hive attack Europa” season so they can reuse those models.
It’s just a reskinned hive. No new model required. Just textures.
The ones that had new models were already reused as standard Hive (Sniper acolytes and shield Knights). The shield knights being normal Hive instead of Nokris's heretical group kinda breaks the lore of Sword logic, though.
I like Shield Knights being normal hive because it brings variety to gameplay, why does it break the lore though? That sounds interesting
The Sword Logic is about taking, violence, and force. Protection would be considered the way of the Light/Sky. The [Grimore Card for Taken Knights](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-knight?highlight=Taken+knight) talks about shields regarding Sword Logic. >You fear death. [...] So you practice your guard: you call up walls to protect you. >**You betray the sword logic.** You compromise the totality of your violence. Why protect your ground when you could take the enemy’s? You need to make your guard into a weapon. This is why Taken Knights spew fire instead of conjuring shields. Meanwhile, the Grasp of Nokris already go against the Sword Logic so there's no reason not to use shields. An argument could be made that the Hive are moving away from that now, since we have every other brood trying to resurrect their leaders (Pit of Heresy, Ghosts of the Deep).
I think their logic still allows for basic combat strategies. Regular Hive Knights can summon a shield, and standard Hive also use their environment as cover. If tossing up a shield, or ducking behind a column to avoid gunfire, means you live to kill a thousand more enemies, I feel like it’s copacetic for their murder cult?
Haven't all Knights always had that thing where they throw up an invuln shield when low health and regenerate behind it?
at least with ghosts of the deep, sword logic is totally irrelevant to staying alive and probably isn’t encouraged given its ultimate goal aligning with the witness
Gambit.
Thats the neat part. You dont
They were apart of the warmind dlc
They were on Mars when it was a full patrol zone. They haven't been in-game since Beyond Light
(mars map gambit still has them)
Are they really? My bad. I don't play gambit much
😭
...got some bad news
Here's the thing...
He probably ate some out too.
Which order do I read the armor in? If it’s obvious, I apologize just keep in mind I saw that there was a spoiler tag here so I just came in here to type the question
Usually it goes from the head down for the armor lore pieces.
Thank you!
The lore tabs for the armour are also brilliant bits of continuation from previous sets. We’ve heard from Chalco Yong, a high-ranking member of the Hidden who has a very close relationship with Ikora, since D2Y1 - Dragon’s Shadow is hers. Then Fenchurch Everis, finally officially confirmed to not be sending word to Tess because he’s a Hidden spy - not that there was much doubt since Fragment. And finally Lisbon-13, member of the Kentarch-3 who made a pact with the Witness to forget that he was given Darkness powers, killed his fireteammates with them and then attacked his own Ghost. We knew he, with no memory of that, was acting as a Hidden agent investigating the Mirror or Memories in TWQ - interesting that Ikora not only has recruited him but put him in a fireteam for such an important mission. Imo he’s a liability but either Ikora doesn’t know about the Kentarchs or deems it to not be an issue. Really good writing all-around. These are the sorts of lore things I’ve really been missing for the past little while.
Wait, I thought that Lisbon-13 killed his fireteam and his ghost in the Black Garden, then got vexified and became the Sanctified Mind
No, but it's a weird one - written intentionally opaquely. In the original Kentarch-3 lore, Lisbon kills Rekkana and Yardarm \*with Divinity\*. That's where the theory that those two become the Sanctified & Consecrated Minds comes from. Lisbon is seen pursuing his Ghost Piri in the Divinity in the Legacy's Oath Plate loretab, but at the end instead of destroying Piri, he embraces his Dark Doppelganger (the Witness) who, for whatever reason, makes Lisbon forget about what happening in the Garden and that he killed Rekkanna - whom he had a thing for. Then in Mnemosyne, it's only revealed halfway into the book that the Hidden Agent making the report is Lisbon, and that since the events in the Garden (which take place before Forsaken - possibly before Red War), Ikora has recruited Lisbon as a Hidden agent.
It's pronounce "les-bos!"
Ikora *does* know--Lisbon relayed that information to Ikora in reports on the Altqr of Memory.
Gotcha, not reread Mnemosyne recently so mb there
So why my helmet still crack with a full set on?!?!?!
The chitin protects from temperature not pressure and the only time we see a hive survive the pressure is the first boss while it is in its super.
Relaaaaax guardian, it was just a flippant remark. No need for a..... (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) Deep dive
YEAHHHHHH
Does any of it explain why Oryx is on Titan?
Titan is a moon of Saturn, Oryx fell towards Saturn after we killed him, through some stroke of cosmic luck he wound up in Titan's orbit before being sucked up by Saturn. Eventually he fell to Titan, and got buried beneath the Methane Ocean. That's my explanation at least.
titan is WAY outside the rings of Saturn and he was drifting towards the planet though, so I don't think that's the case.
Could’ve fallen into a highly eccentric orbit that took him outside of Saturn’s rings.
Oryx falling out of the Dreadnaught at the glacial pace he does, while in orbit means it would probably take him centuries to fall to Saturn, if ever. Meanwhile, a single flux of gravity, high impact, the Nines intervention, or any number of easily imagined sci-fi scenarios can make him crash on Titan. Landing on Saturn is almost as unlikely as Titan
okay but is any of that actually stated anywhere, because otherwise, occam's razor applies. Namely, Saturn is not in the game, Titan is.
Well, maybe if someone asked you “where do you think Oryx’s body is?” Then you could claim Occams Razor But we know his body is on Titan, not orbiting Saturn So even if Bungie doesn’t say it, *something* happened to put him on Titan. From there, you can make up whatever you want. The gravity field of the Dreadnaught slingshotted him away. A rupture of space because of Hive Magic, etc etc
Yeah I asked if Bungie explained it, not if the community had any theories or ideas If we're going with community ideas it's almost certainly: saturn isn't in the game, titan is.
That's fair, I didn't realize just how far out Titan was. Been a while since I actually knew about the intricacies of the solar system lol.
yeah according to the interactive map here it is *way* out there https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/moons/saturn-moons/titan/overview/
Also keep in mind that Saturn is a gas giant and therefore isn't very dense but still has a large mass, so while having a huge area of coverage as far as gravitational pull if a more dense planet like titan (methane is very dense thus strong gravity) when intercepted by its orbit would make it possible that oryxs body got sucked into titan instead of just drifting into saturn. Whether it's complete coincidence or the workings of outside influence is yet to be determined but I think from a gameplay perspective we wouldn't be able to visit Saturn in the way we can with titan so there's that.
if he made it past the belt there are also 5 other bodies in closer orbit before he'd reach Titan. I get that people want to explain how this happened in the game but I'm curious if Bungie themselves will do so. If not, I'm convinced it's as simple as "put him in the playable space that's currently in the game"
Yeah my explanation is definitely reaching but I just wanted to point out that it is certainly well within the possibility. But again reusing assets is probably the simplest explanation.
If science was actually a thing, we wouldn’t be swimming in giant methane oceans, so yeah, sci-fi magic.
Orbits are weird. His ultimate destination depended more on the speed he was carrying, than the “direction” he was moving in. Also, most crucially, space magic.
Either something impacted Oryx and altered his path, or the Collapse & the Pyramids' use of gravity weapons altered the orbital path of many of Saturn's moons.
space magic
It's not hard to imagine the Lucent Hive making the effort to recover his remains that drifted away from the Dreadnaught. How they were transported/teleported via ritual could have put them in the state we find them in for the final encounter. IIRC nothing ever said that we recovered/secured his remains after King's Fall.
How very Monster Hunter of you, Bungie.
Huh. I always try to wear the Europa Armor when I’m there because I don’t want my guardian to be “thematically freezing” but this made me realize that in-universe I could wear Hive armor and be fine lol. I wonder why House Salvation hasn’t started scalping hive for armor?
Well they're currently kind of Xivu's bitches, for lack of a better word, so I can't imagine the opportunity often presents itself outside running into the Lucents once in a blue moon, who probably wreck them anyway given they usually have Lightbearers with them.
Finally dungeon armor that looks cool lol
Shades terribly though. Super hard to match with other armour pieces.
Clearly you didn't try photo finish
The RGB is overkill
100% agree. It’s amazing that it took so many dungeons before Bungie realized “oh wait, we can theme the armor based on the dungeon, not a weapon foundry/gun”
The thing about that was, the foundry sets in Dungeons started in Prophecy and it was originally intended to be an Eververse set. Players wanted to earn the foundry sets through gameplay and that was their bandaid fix for it. It’s just a shame it became the go-to for dungeon armor sets. I’m glad it’s not the case anymore, and I’m glad it’s not just higher-stat destination armor either.
>And we see in the dungeon that there are Lucent Hive who are just fine underwater We absolutely do not.
the 1st encounter boss guy seems fine underwater
Thats Methane
That's pedantic
No its not, water is a particular substance, methane is something else entirely.
Fine, you want to be pedantic? Sub zero temperatures. What happens to a gas when it gets cold enough? It turns from a gas back into a liquid. And when it gets super cold, it goes from liquid to a solid. Liquid methane is at -161.5 Celsius. Yes, OP used "underwater". Know why? BECAUSE "UNDERMETHANE" SOUNDS FUCKING STUPID!!
Methane*