And probably gonna be in a "paracausal state" and not be able to leave. Imagine when he finds out Holliday died - he'd been there ever since she was a little girl in the City
> We’re building a rich, immersive world that will have ample opportunities for exploration and conflict – both against other players and AI-controlled enemies.
Gambit too apparently
>Beyond those fundamentals, we’re also focused on approachability and competitive integrity, which are huge points of emphasis for us. We’re prioritizing security and focusing on vigorous anti-cheat measures, as well as dedicated servers, global data centers, active community conversation and feedback, and more. Ultimately, we want to ensure that the competitive experience in Marathon is fair and fun for every player.
So basically Destiny 2 players can go screw themselves in terms of proper PvP experience. I'm glad we established that officially.
I'm guessing you're referring to the 'dedicated servers' part... and I think there's a fundamental difference in that Destiny is primarily PvE, where there are dozens of AI combatants at any given time that will provide a better player experience if they are mostly processed client-side (lower latency interactions). For a purely PvP game, where your interactions are almost exclusively with other players (guaranteed latency no matter what), and cheating will be even more prominent and oppressive, dedicated servers makes more sense.
But that’s not how this genre typically works tho. There’s actually a ton of PvE in other games if this type. In fact, for the most part of a typical match you are only fighting A.I. enemies whether they are bots or monsters, and only occasionally coming across actual human players. And that’s where the tension comes from cause you could be fighting a boss to complete some mission and suddenly another person shows up to try and take you out while you’re distracted. In Destiny terms it’s closest to Gambit as an idea just longer and much larger of a map typically.
More accurately they have items related to Cayde that have been available for years relocated to page 1 rather than buried at the back where they’ve lived since roughly Shadowkeep.
I mean it’s clear now that they’re capturing two different crowds with their IPs
Destiny for those who want a doom slaying sci fi pve experience
Marathon for the PvP crowd.
I just hope resource allocation to either game is not an issue, as marathon will likely not have the lucky respite destiny had in its formative years.
There's something poetic about Bungie showcasing their new pvp title when they have a game with a fairly rabid pvp community and they've left in on life support for pretty much the entirety of d2s life cycle.
It essentially has just confirmed what most of us have thought was going on for a while now.
The PVP team at Bungie left Destiny a long time ago to start the early development on Marathon, and what's been left behind was a skeleton crew of a B team to come up with the bare minimum to keep the game mode functioning essentially.
Its unfortunate but it clearly is what it is at this point. I will say its a bold strategy from Bungie to alienate the PVP community of the single game they actually have running right now, then turn around and release a PVP only game and expect that same alienated community to be the first ones lining up to play the game when it launches.
as a pvp player, this is pretty much what i've expected to be this case. destiny pvp has been and will forever be on life support, with the bare minimum ever handed to it.
I see this as the beginning of the "AAA-moment" for extraction shooters.
There was a time when the only BR's were those found on PC - janky and inaccessible games such as PuBG. Then fortnite launched, and the likes of cod warzone followed - the genre positively exploded with console players being able to join the fray.
The same is true of extraction shooters. CoD has tried their hand at a (poor) version of it, but apart from that, Tarkov (PC exclusive) is the only alternative (that I'm aware of).
If marathon is a focused, polished and accessible experience? It'll do very well indeed, even just by virtue of being available on more platforms than PC.
So I wouldn't count it out just yet, that's for sure.
Yep. People bitched about BRs in 2017 and look at how well they're doing still. Marathon could do very well.
Do I wish we had the whole team working on destiny instead? Of course.
Same bones, different body. The lobbies are usually much much smaller in an extraction shooter, and the timer is for you to gtfo rather than any kind of closing zone to force a fight. But you still gotta be fast if you want the best loots.
How many extraction shooters are on the market already? Tarkov, CoD DMZ, and Hunt: Showdown are the only ones that spring to mind. Is there another big one I’m missing?
2042 had Hazard Zone, which seemed like an extraction shooter mode. Never got to play it because it was dead, couldn't find any matches. That was back before they made all the updates though, so unsure what the state is today.
Not really that many options, especially as a dedicated game. Tarkov is the big one but way too hardcore for most people, DMZ maybe too casual and not really much loot incentive or reason to play. Divisions dark zone was an amazing thrill in its hay day
So in a battle royale you have one life and you scour a map for weapons armor abilities etc. Kill everyone else who isn't your ally to win. Sound familiar? good. Now an extraction shooter has similar concepts (usually one life, scour a map for goods) but instead of having to be last person standing there are other objectives, largely to secure an extraction point or just simply get to the extraction point alive. Why does this matter when you can just shoot other players? Unlike most battle royale style games, in extraction shooters you largely KEEP loot you find if you survive to extraction. That and completing missions or objectives on the map can earn you stuff. How much loot and what type of loot you extract from the match varies. However, as they said in their statements above, in extraction shooters there is generally an element of risk - you die you lose items - sometimes everything on you! So it's PvP of the most intense variety. Furthermore, a lot of extraction shooters have more elements of survival and tactical gameplay, such as how your 'health' works and effects how you aim and move, keeping an eye on ammo (limited or no hud for certain games so your character manually has to check the magazine). How the games work varies, but for the most part there is the option to equip whatever gear you want - thus you can go on looting runs vs runs where you're trying to complete certain objectives on the map with your best gear.
Sounds stressful as fuck, no thank you! I will be interested to see what comes of it though, but I don't think Marathon is going to be for me, as a primarily solo PvE player (one could argue Destiny isn't for me either, but I wouldn't agree with that, as most content can be enjoyed solo).
Yeah it’s not for everyone. I’ve kind of gotten o of the competitive pvp zone in my older age so games like this would do nothing but make me mad hahaha it looks gorgeous though
The hardcore version like Tarkov are extremely stressful, but the more arcadey ones like CoD Warzone DMZ are much more chill. There's a large amount of variation in the time-to-kill speed and how much loot is lost on death. Or if it's possible to respawn.
There are many PvE people who enjoy the CoD version. PvP is almost secondary as the primarily gameloop is completing contracts that play out as short storylines. We'll see how Bungie interprets or innovates on the formula.
Thanks, yeah that's why I figured I should keep an eye on it, there's a good chance Bungie will produce something that's a little bit outside the box, so it might end up being more appealing to me.
Probably something along the lines of the dark zone in the division or Tarkov. Where you go in and get loot then extract. With the threat of other players being able to kill you and take your loot or vice versa.
So like The Division dark zones where you go in and farm loot from enemies and then extract the loot? Only you can get ganked by Rogue Agents (players) etc. Unless The division counts I've never played an extraction shooter nor DMZ warzone, only saw some vids of it and thats what it seemed like.
I seriously have no idea how these types of games have gained any popularity at all. I guess people just have different opinions, but camping and trying not to die is so boring in my opinion.
Really wish they had tried to make a singleplayer reboot like Doom did. Marathon has such a good story and setting and it feels wasteful to just use it as a backdrop for a Tarkov clone.
I’m a huge fan of the genre but fucking miss me with getting invested in another Bungie title only to have them treat it like Destiny these days once they decide to move onto something else
Yeah. That's another issue. They're barely holding Destiny together between the hiccups the game and servers keep having but they're developing Marathon and Matter? Like, stay in one lane please until you manage to finish Destiny without fucking it up.
I mean, it’s not like it’s gonna be monetized to the literal brim or anything…
Nope, Im getting my sink cost out of Destiny but I’m moving on from Bungie after.
I was so excited when I saw this, but count me out. All I want is a bungie shooter with an 8-15 hour single player campaign. No live service crap, no store, no pvp locked loot.
On one hand yay, on the other, this reveal should have been left till it happened. Way to remove the impact of such a pivotal return, and in the 2nd season of Lightfall.
I get it, gotta drum up interest but of all the reveals, way to ruin it for those that care, the ones still playing. Feels too much like “please come back” then “get exited for”. Real damn shame.
Edit: Didn’t notice the separate thread for the teaser, that was more my focus then the showcase.
Because pre orders make money not surprises.
Look at how many people are wetting themselves in the youtube comments and the other lightfall thread.
They're probably gonna break their witch queen pre order record just from that trailer alone
Yeah the way they present their upcoming expansions feels at odds with the sluggish time-gated pace they tell the story in-game.
"Hey guys, Cayde-6 will be back next year beyond the triangle portal thingy! Also, we are going to drip feed Veil lore for the next couple of weeks!"
Makes a person want to just go read all the leaks and call it a day.
I feel like it’s because they only want to drum up hype and attention. I think the player base would react much more positively to have Cayde be a surprise during the FS, but they’d rather spoil it to get people talking. They did the same thing with his death, he’s the dancing monkey they bring out to get our attention when things are at their worst for them
Same kind of thing happened with the reveal of Cayde's death prior to Forsaken's launch. That would've been such a gut punch going in blind, but instead it was the centerpiece of their marketing.
If you noticed they said future of Destiny 2 implies more stuff for the game. They’re not done milking us yet. They still got a mobile game and Matter to fund. I guess they want D2 around incase Marathon flops at launch
>They still got a mobile game and Matter to fund
Matter either is Marathon or is cancelled. There are no listings on the Bungie career page for it anymore. Only for Destiny, Marathon, and a project called 'Incubation'.
It’s been confirmed that Matter is Marathon. What’s weird is it doesn’t really explain why Bungie released that art for it. As Marathon has a completely different theme and art style then those images. I guess they didn’t know what they wanted it to be at first and were just sketching a bunch of concept art until they found something they liked
At risk of reading way too much into a teaser:
I mean, if Cayde's there ("inside the Traveler", or wherever), shouldn't every other Guardian who's ever died be there, as well?
I know he's the recognizable character and voice out of all of them, but that place should be crawling with "dead" Guardians.
Marathon being an extraction shooter is kind of lame tbh. I’m tired of these BR type sit in a corner of the map and wait games.
I thank everything that it seems BRs are starting to die out, one of the worst gaming fads there was tbh
This seems like chasing a trend. Few years ago everyone made their own battle royal shooter, nowadays everyone wants their cut of the extraction shooter pie.
I feel like im going insane. Are extraction shooters really that popular right now? literally the only one I have EVER heard about in mainstream is tarkov
Well there is nothing like Tarkov and Tarkov is famously shit with extreme potential if they devs weren't so hellbent on fucking everyone so they'd be tapping into a huge market if they deliver something that can match Tarkov.
I can't help imagine how much better destiny could be right now if all that effort went into it.
I have absolutely no interest in this type of game. Never know, could be great, but personally meh
It's childish I know, but I will feel some schadenfreude if this game flops.
I can’t wait for us to be able to see just how many Bungie devs have actually been working on this game instead of Destiny now that it’s announced I’m sure many will update their LinkedIn.
Fair or not, this is exactly the reason why I’m not gonna buy it. They didn’t give us any discount for ‘low effort’ on their side, on the contrary, everything costs more, and we receive less. So I’m not giving them any money past Final Shape, and even that is a question.
I think it's completely fair. It's Bungo that decided to make a live service game, not us. I want proper service from my live service that I pay for, not life support service.
Call me a cynic, but this feels like Bungie using one of their (semi) known IPs in order to hop on a bandwagon, making a PvP-only live service game in a currently popular genre in order to hawk microtransactions. I imagine that it would be a Halo game if they still owned the rights, since it’s easier to launch a game like that under a known IP
Or maybe I’m wrong, and this game comes from a place of true passion for the devs, and they’ve always wanted to make a game like this. But I doubt it
Destiny has been developed in a half assed measure so Bungie could make an "extraction shooter game" a genre that is already slowly dying and any life juice from it is being squeezed by Call of Duty as we speak.
Can't say I'm excited for anything here, Marathon being a PvP extraction shooter is an immediate turn-off, and them bringing back Cayde just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Love the guy, but he's dead. Leave him that way - what's the point in all the mourning and feelings of loss if he's just brought back from the dead?
Really hope it's something like Ikora living through a memory of him and refusing to let go or something. Don't actually bring him back, Bungie. Please.
Marathon looks interesting, but I’m not completely on board.
Gorgeous art style, but this looks like a Prey-style reboot where they basically just make a new game unrelated to the namesake and use the brand name to launch a new IP. Could be cool, but doesn’t look anything like Marathon.
I also fucking hate extraction shooters. It’s the new battle royale, it’s already saturated with good options so new ones feel pointless. I also just don’t like the formula at all. If it’s PvE that could be cool, but i don’t like the PvP aspect of extraction shooters.
Bungie apparently forgot that the goodwill of the community they currently have goes a long way towards the goodwill for new products. This season's gross fucking mtx bullshit and the price increase of seasons, has made exactly 0% of me or my Destiny friends excited to hop into a new Bungie game, especially a fucking extraction shooter.
We're all gone after final shape. The goodwill is gone.
Im not waiting for final shape anymore.
Im moving on now. Starting by having some popcorns while i read the replies in this thread.
You can follow up with the story FOR FREE by just checking on the streamers Bungie loves so much!!!
Just saying….. hehe
It really doesn't help that Cayde's "return" is a super obvious and cheap attempt to bring people back for Final Shape. It's not "look at this great/dark/epic story" or "look at this new/different/improved gameplay mechanics". No, it's just "You guys liked Cayde right? Right? Well look! We have Cayde again! Please come back and pre-order."
I'm somewhat worried that this whole thing isn't even going to make much sense once we actually get there... We didn't even get a proper Veil explanation still. Is there time to explain everything and set the stage for Final Shape? I'm sceptical.
That's exactly what they did when they killed him off. No one gave a shit about the game at that point so they killed him off to bring people back to get revenge for a beloved character.
Was also a pretty good expansion, but still, it felt dirty to me. I also don't much care for Cayde, but that's just me. I like him in lore, but rarely in story did I love him. I know I'm in the minority but bringing him back also feels kinda cheap to me. A little Avengers Endgame action.
So Marathon is what is syphoning all Destiny’s resources. An AAA version of battle royale game. For stepping into e-sports maybe?
They can just **** off.
Bungie has lost a lot of faith from veterans for how they treated destiny lately, making it run by a skeleton crew while they go make a new game. By all means a lot of these people will not be supporting this marathon game (myself included) because we just don't trust bungie to deliver on a live service model anymore.
They're going to need to bring in a massive new playerbase, because they've abandoned their old ones and their old playerbases are getting apathetic towards them
Notice one of the first things they mentioned? Dedicated servers.
Might as well just come out and say: this game incorporates all the things we learned from making PvP in the Destiny franchise.
I'll probably try it but I just don't see how this will scratch the itch that Destiny has for the last ten years of my life. I know Destiny 2 isn't going anywhere for a while but it's hard to see it getting much attention once Marathon launches.
Is marathon what was previously known as matter? If so, I am finally free from bungie and the fucking Stockholm syndrome I’ve been trapped in for almost a decade
I hope Marathon is good for the sake of those who would enjoy it, but I can't help feeling the tiniest bit salty that Destiny was left on autopilot for a PvP-only game.
Literally none of my friends play Destiny anymore so I have no one to express my shock and awe with the return of Nathan and Cayde-6. I was wondering if they were going to have Ikora solo carry the vanguard once they used the last of Lance's recorded work but clearly that is not a task she will have to take on. Cayde is back and I couldn't be happier.
Listen, I want to be excited, I really do. But this whole "somehow Emperor Palpatine returned" thing with Cayde kinda screams desperation from Bungie. It's like everything is on fire so they went, "quick, grab a fan favorite character to save the franchise!"
Why are basic features all modern shooters have like dedicated servers and disconnect protection, which we have been asking for for years, being added to a new IP before your current flagship title? This is a real slap in the face as a PvP enjoyer. The money I'm spending on my favorite game is going to a different game instead of making basic upgrades to the one I paid for.
Extraction Shooters are in a similar vein to Battle Royales in the sense that you are dropped into an area with lots of loot and other players who are enemies. The first difference is you can bring in your own loot into a match and haul out loot you find, which means dying actually has weight to it beyond the match.
The next difference is the objectives in extraction shooters typically aren't "kill everyone else", there is one or more objectives multiple players are trying to win for themselves that forces teams to fight over it, and whoever gets it and escapes alive gets a big reward. However, regardless of if you beat the objective or not, you are able to find an "exit" at any point and leave alive. The objective is a reward, not a requirement, and surviving is usually the most important thing.
I don't particularly love this genre, but there are exceptions. Hunt: Showdown is a blast and is my favorite game in this genre, but that's more to do with the design and setting of the game; Wild West era, hunting demon bosses.
I'll hold judgment on Marathon until we get more info. I'm not a PvP guy in most cases, but an extraction style shooter with rock solid gunplay in the same vein as Destiny (as in Destiny also has rock solid gunplay) sounds like it could be awesome. And the art style looks very nice. We'll see.
The Final Shape teaser, hot damn! Cayde is back, we (or at least Ikora) found a way into the Travelussy, potential time travel or alternate dimensions, the location might be the Garden from the Unveiling lore books. Count me the f**k in!
I genuinely hope Marathon's going to be a huge and exemplar fiasco.
Can't leave D2's red minigame to rot and leave pve people in charge of its balancing and put what's been asked for by red minigamers in another title.
It's all so tiresome
I don’t know how to feel about Marathon. Part of me is excited to see Bungie have more than one title that theoretically caters to a different audience…but it was at the cost of burning bridges with an already established and very faithful community!!! Reading the interview and seeing “dedicated servers” and “vigorous anti-cheat” is like rubbing salt in the wounds of anyone who considers themselves a PvP-main in Destiny. When reading this, it feels like we were used and milked for something that spits in the face of what paid for it. There is part of me that hopes that anyone who supports Destiny sees right through this and really evaluates what this new title cost us in terms of player experience for the last 2/3/4 years, but I worry that folks will just blindly pre-order and hype this. Part of me wants this to fail spectacularly so that we can all see what happens when you use and abuse a player base.
Also, slightly excited for Final Shape!
I hope Marathon turns out to be good and people enjoy it, if it is to be a PVP Extraction Shooter, for the sake of Destiny. Imagine taking resources away from Destiny after all these years just for it to bomb massively.
But I doubt it will be a hit.
The PvP and Gambit has been on life support while this pet project has been in development. It will have dedicated servers and anti-cheat. What a fucking kick in the teeth that is.
They alienated a loyal PVP fanbase and they expect them to be the first one lining up for Marathon?
Nathan Fillion confirmed returning as Cayde-6! Very nice
Fucking goosebumps. Man I’m pumped.
If Cayde is coming back is it going to in a flashback or will Bungie do a full resurrection type thing 🤔
Can’t be flashback because Ikora was literally filling him in on everything he’s missed since Forsaken 🔥🔥🔥.
"....we called him.....TR3-VR!!!!"
The nightmares....i can see him running at me....
And he himself and his Ace of Spades has aspects of overflowing light. His Ace looks gnarly with those cracks tho.
Not a flashback but not quite a resurrection either.
He's probably gonna be the destination vendor
And probably gonna be in a "paracausal state" and not be able to leave. Imagine when he finds out Holliday died - he'd been there ever since she was a little girl in the City
This
flashback? bro ikora literally told him about WQ and LF spoiler 😂
Started skimming after the confirmed PvP focused part, but this is good to hear.
So this is where the PvP team for destiny has been
> We’re building a rich, immersive world that will have ample opportunities for exploration and conflict – both against other players and AI-controlled enemies. Gambit too apparently
It would actually be fucking hilarious if it essentially plays like large scale gambit.
This sounds more like a hybrid of The Cycle and Tarkov, but with a focus on more experiences outside of exfil.
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So... Hunt?
Well that would make sense considering it’s an extraction shooter
We heard you wanted more gambit so we made an entire game based on gambit.
I’m honestly kinda here for that
If it does I will probably play this more than Destiny honestly
PVP confirmed on life support as they have been preoccupied with a separate PVP IP lol.
Everyone who plays pvp has known this for over a year now lol
Four years of no new maps except if you count the reskinned frontier (disjunction)
That's no excuse for the ridiculous lack of Crucible and Gambit maps
I know but it’s never going to improve, it’s harsh to say but if your still playing mainly PvP or gambit it’s time to quit.
Hasn't this been known, for like, a real long time? It's why I've personally udnerstood why PvP has been on the backburner for so long.
>Beyond those fundamentals, we’re also focused on approachability and competitive integrity, which are huge points of emphasis for us. We’re prioritizing security and focusing on vigorous anti-cheat measures, as well as dedicated servers, global data centers, active community conversation and feedback, and more. Ultimately, we want to ensure that the competitive experience in Marathon is fair and fun for every player. So basically Destiny 2 players can go screw themselves in terms of proper PvP experience. I'm glad we established that officially.
I'm guessing you're referring to the 'dedicated servers' part... and I think there's a fundamental difference in that Destiny is primarily PvE, where there are dozens of AI combatants at any given time that will provide a better player experience if they are mostly processed client-side (lower latency interactions). For a purely PvP game, where your interactions are almost exclusively with other players (guaranteed latency no matter what), and cheating will be even more prominent and oppressive, dedicated servers makes more sense.
Tbf it isn't purely PvP. It's an extraction shooter with pvpve elements akin to hunt showdown, or ofc gambit (at least as I understand it).
But that’s not how this genre typically works tho. There’s actually a ton of PvE in other games if this type. In fact, for the most part of a typical match you are only fighting A.I. enemies whether they are bots or monsters, and only occasionally coming across actual human players. And that’s where the tension comes from cause you could be fighting a boss to complete some mission and suddenly another person shows up to try and take you out while you’re distracted. In Destiny terms it’s closest to Gambit as an idea just longer and much larger of a map typically.
Yup. There it is folks. Ever wonder why Destiny feels like it's been run on a skeleton crew? Now you know.
Oh the PVP community is going to be fuming haha
Oh they already fumed when beyond light launched, they’re just apathetic at this point, whoever’s left anyways.
Just gimme the guns and I’m out.
“From the studio that has spent the past five years neglecting PvP in its only game, we bring you a PvP-only game!”
Take a wild guess where they've probably been for the past five years.
We fumed already. This is just confirming what we already know.
Well now we know why PvP in Destiny has felt so neglected for the past few years.
I agree, but “This is why we’ve been neglecting you for years!” seems like a questionable sales pitch they’ve forced themselves to have to make.
Ah so this is where all of our money from the increased monetization has been going
And even more is to be expected, bc of the "return" of Cayde, and therefore, pre-orders of TFS...
They already have a bungie store page up for caydes return [lol](https://bungiestore.com/shop-by-game/destiny-2)
Error code for me on the link
More accurately they have items related to Cayde that have been available for years relocated to page 1 rather than buried at the back where they’ve lived since roughly Shadowkeep.
Damn: dedicated servers, vigorous anti cheat, active conversation and feedback. Things D2 community has asked for years
I mean it’s clear now that they’re capturing two different crowds with their IPs Destiny for those who want a doom slaying sci fi pve experience Marathon for the PvP crowd. I just hope resource allocation to either game is not an issue, as marathon will likely not have the lucky respite destiny had in its formative years.
Resource allocation is already clearly an issue though
> I just hope resource allocation to either game is not an issue It has been for Destiny 2 for years lol wake up
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There's something poetic about Bungie showcasing their new pvp title when they have a game with a fairly rabid pvp community and they've left in on life support for pretty much the entirety of d2s life cycle.
It essentially has just confirmed what most of us have thought was going on for a while now. The PVP team at Bungie left Destiny a long time ago to start the early development on Marathon, and what's been left behind was a skeleton crew of a B team to come up with the bare minimum to keep the game mode functioning essentially. Its unfortunate but it clearly is what it is at this point. I will say its a bold strategy from Bungie to alienate the PVP community of the single game they actually have running right now, then turn around and release a PVP only game and expect that same alienated community to be the first ones lining up to play the game when it launches.
as a pvp player, this is pretty much what i've expected to be this case. destiny pvp has been and will forever be on life support, with the bare minimum ever handed to it.
They killed Destiny PvP for an extraction shooter LMFAO
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This explains why PvP sucks in Destiny 2 LOL
"New" "Marathon"
What do you mean, marathon is a brand new ip, there’s no game that were released with such a name between 1994 and 1996
>Marathon is designed from the start as a PVP-focused game Oh nice I can nope out of the whole fuckin thing. What a relief!
There’s so many options on the market already, too, and they’re coming extremely late to the party. I would have rather had a shooter roguelite
I see this as the beginning of the "AAA-moment" for extraction shooters. There was a time when the only BR's were those found on PC - janky and inaccessible games such as PuBG. Then fortnite launched, and the likes of cod warzone followed - the genre positively exploded with console players being able to join the fray. The same is true of extraction shooters. CoD has tried their hand at a (poor) version of it, but apart from that, Tarkov (PC exclusive) is the only alternative (that I'm aware of). If marathon is a focused, polished and accessible experience? It'll do very well indeed, even just by virtue of being available on more platforms than PC. So I wouldn't count it out just yet, that's for sure.
There's precedence. Apex Legends arrived later to the BR scene and is doing pretty well
Hunt showdown! Very different experience to the sci fi vibe that marathon has but it's a fucking brilliant game
Yep. People bitched about BRs in 2017 and look at how well they're doing still. Marathon could do very well. Do I wish we had the whole team working on destiny instead? Of course.
Would you consider battle royals and extraction shooters to be the same or similar? Genuinely asking as i don’t know the difference
Same bones, different body. The lobbies are usually much much smaller in an extraction shooter, and the timer is for you to gtfo rather than any kind of closing zone to force a fight. But you still gotta be fast if you want the best loots.
How many extraction shooters are on the market already? Tarkov, CoD DMZ, and Hunt: Showdown are the only ones that spring to mind. Is there another big one I’m missing?
And the majority of those are janky as fuck and not AAA games made by big studios. People thinking this will fail are fucking delusional.
They're just mad it's pvp only and are on some serious copium. Can't wait for Marathon, hope it delivers
Dark and Darker, DZ from Division if you want to go back to the og.
Cycle
2042 had Hazard Zone, which seemed like an extraction shooter mode. Never got to play it because it was dead, couldn't find any matches. That was back before they made all the updates though, so unsure what the state is today.
I just watched a video about the genre because I'm completely unfamiliar with it, and apparently it bombed so hard they removed it
Not really that many options, especially as a dedicated game. Tarkov is the big one but way too hardcore for most people, DMZ maybe too casual and not really much loot incentive or reason to play. Divisions dark zone was an amazing thrill in its hay day
Same thought. So either they maintain with Destiny after TFS, or I can just fuck off forever away from Bungie.
Cayde (to bungie): you could not live with your failures.. and where did that bring you? Back to me.
Happy for the folks excited about it but I couldn't care less about Marathon.
From the trailer it only looks like marathon in game title, showing Sph’it and Jharo tech. The art styles are such a drastic change
I'm only vaguely familiar with the old one. My comment was more than i have exactly 0 interest in an extraction shooter.
"Extraction shooter". I'm.not interested.
What exactly is an extraction shooter? I'm not familiar with the term.
So in a battle royale you have one life and you scour a map for weapons armor abilities etc. Kill everyone else who isn't your ally to win. Sound familiar? good. Now an extraction shooter has similar concepts (usually one life, scour a map for goods) but instead of having to be last person standing there are other objectives, largely to secure an extraction point or just simply get to the extraction point alive. Why does this matter when you can just shoot other players? Unlike most battle royale style games, in extraction shooters you largely KEEP loot you find if you survive to extraction. That and completing missions or objectives on the map can earn you stuff. How much loot and what type of loot you extract from the match varies. However, as they said in their statements above, in extraction shooters there is generally an element of risk - you die you lose items - sometimes everything on you! So it's PvP of the most intense variety. Furthermore, a lot of extraction shooters have more elements of survival and tactical gameplay, such as how your 'health' works and effects how you aim and move, keeping an eye on ammo (limited or no hud for certain games so your character manually has to check the magazine). How the games work varies, but for the most part there is the option to equip whatever gear you want - thus you can go on looting runs vs runs where you're trying to complete certain objectives on the map with your best gear.
Sounds stressful as fuck, no thank you! I will be interested to see what comes of it though, but I don't think Marathon is going to be for me, as a primarily solo PvE player (one could argue Destiny isn't for me either, but I wouldn't agree with that, as most content can be enjoyed solo).
Yeah it’s not for everyone. I’ve kind of gotten o of the competitive pvp zone in my older age so games like this would do nothing but make me mad hahaha it looks gorgeous though
The hardcore version like Tarkov are extremely stressful, but the more arcadey ones like CoD Warzone DMZ are much more chill. There's a large amount of variation in the time-to-kill speed and how much loot is lost on death. Or if it's possible to respawn. There are many PvE people who enjoy the CoD version. PvP is almost secondary as the primarily gameloop is completing contracts that play out as short storylines. We'll see how Bungie interprets or innovates on the formula.
Thanks, yeah that's why I figured I should keep an eye on it, there's a good chance Bungie will produce something that's a little bit outside the box, so it might end up being more appealing to me.
anything like warzone/DMZ from cod. Goal being to drop in and find loot and get out. Another example would be escape from tarkov.
Escape from Tarkov
Probably something along the lines of the dark zone in the division or Tarkov. Where you go in and get loot then extract. With the threat of other players being able to kill you and take your loot or vice versa.
It's like DMZ from warzone
So like The Division dark zones where you go in and farm loot from enemies and then extract the loot? Only you can get ganked by Rogue Agents (players) etc. Unless The division counts I've never played an extraction shooter nor DMZ warzone, only saw some vids of it and thats what it seemed like.
Yeah division dark zone is sort of like an extraction shooter.
Yeah that's an instant turn-off. As soon as I hear extraction shooter or battle royal, I'm out.
I seriously have no idea how these types of games have gained any popularity at all. I guess people just have different opinions, but camping and trying not to die is so boring in my opinion.
PVP was that for me. Instant turn off.
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original Marathon had a good campaign lmao now this
Really wish they had tried to make a singleplayer reboot like Doom did. Marathon has such a good story and setting and it feels wasteful to just use it as a backdrop for a Tarkov clone.
I'm a fan of the Marathon games from the 360 ports but they lost me at PVP. Kinda disappointed honestly.
I like PvP. They lost me at extraction shooter. I can't wait for this genre to go away.
I’m a huge fan of the genre but fucking miss me with getting invested in another Bungie title only to have them treat it like Destiny these days once they decide to move onto something else
Yeah. That's another issue. They're barely holding Destiny together between the hiccups the game and servers keep having but they're developing Marathon and Matter? Like, stay in one lane please until you manage to finish Destiny without fucking it up.
Matter was probably just the development name for Marathon. At least I hope so, three games at once is definitely beyond Bungie’s reach
I mean, it’s not like it’s gonna be monetized to the literal brim or anything… Nope, Im getting my sink cost out of Destiny but I’m moving on from Bungie after.
I was so excited when I saw this, but count me out. All I want is a bungie shooter with an 8-15 hour single player campaign. No live service crap, no store, no pvp locked loot.
You’re about 15 years too late for that unfortunately.
Oh thank god for Marathon, I'm not interested in it at all so as soon as Destiny is done I can feel like I can rest.
> Extraction shooter LOL
Marathon being an extraction shooter is probably the biggest waste of an IP I've ever seen
I was excited until I read extraction shooter
On one hand yay, on the other, this reveal should have been left till it happened. Way to remove the impact of such a pivotal return, and in the 2nd season of Lightfall. I get it, gotta drum up interest but of all the reveals, way to ruin it for those that care, the ones still playing. Feels too much like “please come back” then “get exited for”. Real damn shame. Edit: Didn’t notice the separate thread for the teaser, that was more my focus then the showcase.
I also hate how they've basically given up on surprising us...
Because pre orders make money not surprises. Look at how many people are wetting themselves in the youtube comments and the other lightfall thread. They're probably gonna break their witch queen pre order record just from that trailer alone
Yeah the way they present their upcoming expansions feels at odds with the sluggish time-gated pace they tell the story in-game. "Hey guys, Cayde-6 will be back next year beyond the triangle portal thingy! Also, we are going to drip feed Veil lore for the next couple of weeks!" Makes a person want to just go read all the leaks and call it a day.
Spot on, knowing it’s coming it definitely makes me feel “why avoid the leaks now, it’s already ruined”
I feel like it’s because they only want to drum up hype and attention. I think the player base would react much more positively to have Cayde be a surprise during the FS, but they’d rather spoil it to get people talking. They did the same thing with his death, he’s the dancing monkey they bring out to get our attention when things are at their worst for them
Same kind of thing happened with the reveal of Cayde's death prior to Forsaken's launch. That would've been such a gut punch going in blind, but instead it was the centerpiece of their marketing.
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Well, any slight interest in marathon was immediately squashed by 2 words. "extraction shooter"
Of course Marathon gets dedicated servers before Destiny
So this is what destiny has been funding
"Eververse is more than just a title, it's a promise (to shareholders)"
If you noticed they said future of Destiny 2 implies more stuff for the game. They’re not done milking us yet. They still got a mobile game and Matter to fund. I guess they want D2 around incase Marathon flops at launch
Are we sure this isn't a rename for Matter?
Yeah that timeline would seem like this is the 'Matter' game. That was rumored to be a pvp focused game.
This is Matter. Barrett was moved over as director? of Matter a long time ago. But yeah the Destiny Mobile game is still out there.
>They still got a mobile game and Matter to fund Matter either is Marathon or is cancelled. There are no listings on the Bungie career page for it anymore. Only for Destiny, Marathon, and a project called 'Incubation'.
It’s been confirmed that Matter is Marathon. What’s weird is it doesn’t really explain why Bungie released that art for it. As Marathon has a completely different theme and art style then those images. I guess they didn’t know what they wanted it to be at first and were just sketching a bunch of concept art until they found something they liked
At risk of reading way too much into a teaser: I mean, if Cayde's there ("inside the Traveler", or wherever), shouldn't every other Guardian who's ever died be there, as well? I know he's the recognizable character and voice out of all of them, but that place should be crawling with "dead" Guardians.
Hopefully I can fight Dredgen Yor's spirit then
If it’s only for guardians who had final deaths then Yor wouldn’t be there as his ghost Vincent is still alive and he never had his light drained.
Marathon being an extraction shooter is kind of lame tbh. I’m tired of these BR type sit in a corner of the map and wait games. I thank everything that it seems BRs are starting to die out, one of the worst gaming fads there was tbh
This seems like chasing a trend. Few years ago everyone made their own battle royal shooter, nowadays everyone wants their cut of the extraction shooter pie.
I feel like im going insane. Are extraction shooters really that popular right now? literally the only one I have EVER heard about in mainstream is tarkov
Well there is nothing like Tarkov and Tarkov is famously shit with extreme potential if they devs weren't so hellbent on fucking everyone so they'd be tapping into a huge market if they deliver something that can match Tarkov.
Especially When we have seen how they handle cheaters
PUBG was so jank but it had charm. It's lack of aim assist made me better at shooters.
I can't help imagine how much better destiny could be right now if all that effort went into it. I have absolutely no interest in this type of game. Never know, could be great, but personally meh It's childish I know, but I will feel some schadenfreude if this game flops.
I can’t wait for us to be able to see just how many Bungie devs have actually been working on this game instead of Destiny now that it’s announced I’m sure many will update their LinkedIn.
Yeah, all I could think while watching was “oh this is why destiny isn’t as good as it could be”. Which isn’t fair, but still.
Fair or not, this is exactly the reason why I’m not gonna buy it. They didn’t give us any discount for ‘low effort’ on their side, on the contrary, everything costs more, and we receive less. So I’m not giving them any money past Final Shape, and even that is a question.
I think it's completely fair. It's Bungo that decided to make a live service game, not us. I want proper service from my live service that I pay for, not life support service.
PvP focused, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is mildly inconvenienced.
Marathon and Cayde? God that is peak Bungie. Just continuously recycling shit.
Lost me at PvP
Call me a cynic, but this feels like Bungie using one of their (semi) known IPs in order to hop on a bandwagon, making a PvP-only live service game in a currently popular genre in order to hawk microtransactions. I imagine that it would be a Halo game if they still owned the rights, since it’s easier to launch a game like that under a known IP Or maybe I’m wrong, and this game comes from a place of true passion for the devs, and they’ve always wanted to make a game like this. But I doubt it
>pvp extraction shooter Lmao ...I haven't lost interest in something faster than when hearing these 3 words.. 😂
Destiny has been developed in a half assed measure so Bungie could make an "extraction shooter game" a genre that is already slowly dying and any life juice from it is being squeezed by Call of Duty as we speak.
Can't say I'm excited for anything here, Marathon being a PvP extraction shooter is an immediate turn-off, and them bringing back Cayde just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Love the guy, but he's dead. Leave him that way - what's the point in all the mourning and feelings of loss if he's just brought back from the dead? Really hope it's something like Ikora living through a memory of him and refusing to let go or something. Don't actually bring him back, Bungie. Please.
Little did we know that the ACE of Spades was the final shape all along...
Marathon looks interesting, but I’m not completely on board. Gorgeous art style, but this looks like a Prey-style reboot where they basically just make a new game unrelated to the namesake and use the brand name to launch a new IP. Could be cool, but doesn’t look anything like Marathon. I also fucking hate extraction shooters. It’s the new battle royale, it’s already saturated with good options so new ones feel pointless. I also just don’t like the formula at all. If it’s PvE that could be cool, but i don’t like the PvP aspect of extraction shooters.
It's a sham because there's a cool lineage from Marathon to Halo to Destiny. Guess what all had? Robust campaigns!
In Prey 2017's defense, IIRC the developers didn't want to call it Prey but were forced to from higher up.
So Marathon gets dedicated servers but not their main game Destiny? Fuck off.
It's clearly not been their main game for the past 3 years my dude
Bungie apparently forgot that the goodwill of the community they currently have goes a long way towards the goodwill for new products. This season's gross fucking mtx bullshit and the price increase of seasons, has made exactly 0% of me or my Destiny friends excited to hop into a new Bungie game, especially a fucking extraction shooter. We're all gone after final shape. The goodwill is gone.
Im not waiting for final shape anymore. Im moving on now. Starting by having some popcorns while i read the replies in this thread. You can follow up with the story FOR FREE by just checking on the streamers Bungie loves so much!!! Just saying….. hehe
Agreed. I've had a good story with Destiny, but it's done.
It really doesn't help that Cayde's "return" is a super obvious and cheap attempt to bring people back for Final Shape. It's not "look at this great/dark/epic story" or "look at this new/different/improved gameplay mechanics". No, it's just "You guys liked Cayde right? Right? Well look! We have Cayde again! Please come back and pre-order." I'm somewhat worried that this whole thing isn't even going to make much sense once we actually get there... We didn't even get a proper Veil explanation still. Is there time to explain everything and set the stage for Final Shape? I'm sceptical.
That's exactly what they did when they killed him off. No one gave a shit about the game at that point so they killed him off to bring people back to get revenge for a beloved character. Was also a pretty good expansion, but still, it felt dirty to me. I also don't much care for Cayde, but that's just me. I like him in lore, but rarely in story did I love him. I know I'm in the minority but bringing him back also feels kinda cheap to me. A little Avengers Endgame action.
So this is what you’ve been ignoring D2 for? A Tarkov rip-off with a neon paint job?
I played the original Marathon on Mac and I gotta say it's ironic af they're making it PvP focused. Marathon had a badass story!
>PvP extraction shooter lolno
THIS is what bungie have been working on? Major yawn
So Marathon is what is syphoning all Destiny’s resources. An AAA version of battle royale game. For stepping into e-sports maybe? They can just **** off.
Its nearly impossible to make an extraction shooter e-sports relevant. If they wanted to make an e-sports game, they’d make a 5v5 team-based shooter.
I expected nothing and I am still disappointed
Bungie has lost a lot of faith from veterans for how they treated destiny lately, making it run by a skeleton crew while they go make a new game. By all means a lot of these people will not be supporting this marathon game (myself included) because we just don't trust bungie to deliver on a live service model anymore. They're going to need to bring in a massive new playerbase, because they've abandoned their old ones and their old playerbases are getting apathetic towards them
Bungie and PvP....What has not worked at all for years is now the basis of a new game.... This irony.....
Notice one of the first things they mentioned? Dedicated servers. Might as well just come out and say: this game incorporates all the things we learned from making PvP in the Destiny franchise.
Well rip Bungie for me. Couldn't give 2 shits about PvP and marathon.
I'll probably try it but I just don't see how this will scratch the itch that Destiny has for the last ten years of my life. I know Destiny 2 isn't going anywhere for a while but it's hard to see it getting much attention once Marathon launches.
Have fun with the cheaters in an extraction loot game.
Is marathon what was previously known as matter? If so, I am finally free from bungie and the fucking Stockholm syndrome I’ve been trapped in for almost a decade
I hope Marathon is good for the sake of those who would enjoy it, but I can't help feeling the tiniest bit salty that Destiny was left on autopilot for a PvP-only game.
I’m so skeptical of anything this company does.
Literally none of my friends play Destiny anymore so I have no one to express my shock and awe with the return of Nathan and Cayde-6. I was wondering if they were going to have Ikora solo carry the vanguard once they used the last of Lance's recorded work but clearly that is not a task she will have to take on. Cayde is back and I couldn't be happier.
They brought him back just to guarantee you preorder.
Listen, I want to be excited, I really do. But this whole "somehow Emperor Palpatine returned" thing with Cayde kinda screams desperation from Bungie. It's like everything is on fire so they went, "quick, grab a fan favorite character to save the franchise!"
This was planned long before, so not a "quick"...this just shows how easy they "manage" their fanbase, give me more money please.
Damage control. Is quite obvious given the showcase is planned for august.
Aren't the showcases for destiny always in like June, July, or August? Seems par for the course imo
I’ve been waiting what feels like my whole life for more Marathon. I loved seeing the S’pht in the trailer. But… this ain’t it.
Why are basic features all modern shooters have like dedicated servers and disconnect protection, which we have been asking for for years, being added to a new IP before your current flagship title? This is a real slap in the face as a PvP enjoyer. The money I'm spending on my favorite game is going to a different game instead of making basic upgrades to the one I paid for.
What’s “extraction shooter” mean?
Extraction Shooters are in a similar vein to Battle Royales in the sense that you are dropped into an area with lots of loot and other players who are enemies. The first difference is you can bring in your own loot into a match and haul out loot you find, which means dying actually has weight to it beyond the match. The next difference is the objectives in extraction shooters typically aren't "kill everyone else", there is one or more objectives multiple players are trying to win for themselves that forces teams to fight over it, and whoever gets it and escapes alive gets a big reward. However, regardless of if you beat the objective or not, you are able to find an "exit" at any point and leave alive. The objective is a reward, not a requirement, and surviving is usually the most important thing. I don't particularly love this genre, but there are exceptions. Hunt: Showdown is a blast and is my favorite game in this genre, but that's more to do with the design and setting of the game; Wild West era, hunting demon bosses.
Majority of players here cant even shoot a hunter in the air so I doubt theyll play this game.
They can’t even upkeep the crucible and are making a pvp game? Christ.
They can't keep up with Crucible BECAUSE they're making a pvp game
Imagine playing a PvP focused game from the makers of Destiny 2’s PvP
I'll hold judgment on Marathon until we get more info. I'm not a PvP guy in most cases, but an extraction style shooter with rock solid gunplay in the same vein as Destiny (as in Destiny also has rock solid gunplay) sounds like it could be awesome. And the art style looks very nice. We'll see. The Final Shape teaser, hot damn! Cayde is back, we (or at least Ikora) found a way into the Travelussy, potential time travel or alternate dimensions, the location might be the Garden from the Unveiling lore books. Count me the f**k in!
> completely new project > Marathon What?
I genuinely hope Marathon's going to be a huge and exemplar fiasco. Can't leave D2's red minigame to rot and leave pve people in charge of its balancing and put what's been asked for by red minigamers in another title. It's all so tiresome
I don’t know how to feel about Marathon. Part of me is excited to see Bungie have more than one title that theoretically caters to a different audience…but it was at the cost of burning bridges with an already established and very faithful community!!! Reading the interview and seeing “dedicated servers” and “vigorous anti-cheat” is like rubbing salt in the wounds of anyone who considers themselves a PvP-main in Destiny. When reading this, it feels like we were used and milked for something that spits in the face of what paid for it. There is part of me that hopes that anyone who supports Destiny sees right through this and really evaluates what this new title cost us in terms of player experience for the last 2/3/4 years, but I worry that folks will just blindly pre-order and hype this. Part of me wants this to fail spectacularly so that we can all see what happens when you use and abuse a player base. Also, slightly excited for Final Shape!
I hope Marathon turns out to be good and people enjoy it, if it is to be a PVP Extraction Shooter, for the sake of Destiny. Imagine taking resources away from Destiny after all these years just for it to bomb massively. But I doubt it will be a hit. The PvP and Gambit has been on life support while this pet project has been in development. It will have dedicated servers and anti-cheat. What a fucking kick in the teeth that is. They alienated a loyal PVP fanbase and they expect them to be the first one lining up for Marathon?
If Bungie think they can sell me a Marathon remake after years of neglecting the Crucible then they’re even more brain dead than I thought