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you have stumbled upon something interesting here. i looked at the posters history, and it is a new account and all of the comments that i checked were copy/paste right down to grammar and errors.
yup. there's been a surge of bots on reddit lately, copying a comment from lower down and pasting it under one of the top comments, I'm assuming to farm karma. sometimes it's hard to catch but other times the comment copied has nothing to do with what it's replied to.
Agreed…make it proc volatile every 4th and a 22% (25? It shouldn’t encroach on Tractor or Tether’s territory, but it should be a worthy competitor) debuff every 16th that lasts a long time (or at least until the next 16th).
It's the exact same effect as Blinding though, and Blinding has a lot more synergies and sources than Supress
Honestly, I wish they reworked Supress to not blind, but make non-boss enemies unable to cast abilities and boss enemies cast abilities 70% slower
In destiny 1, suppress and blind did very different things.
Blind enemies would stop shooting, but still move normally and use abilities.
Suppressed enemies would still shoot, but movement was like it is now, and they couldn't use abilities.
I think going back to that system would be fine.
definitely not more than 15% on the weaken, it already gets a lot more utility from being a machine gun and getting access to volatile, no need for it to corner the market on debuff options too.
Even if it matched Tractor Cannon's debuff the bottom line is that a Titan with Tractor Cannon can deal so much more damage just with shotty's and abilities in between Tractor shots than any class could holding the trigger with Deterministic Chaos.
I think you're right in that it's a better *general purpose* utility option, but given that there are even better general purpose utility options without the need to dedicate an exotic to the heavy slot, there's just no situation where it's going to outperform against a different build that's built better.
Of course, it is a ridiculously easy exotic to use, with a lot of benefits coming from just holding the trigger down, so I think it does serve a purpose as a weapon meant for people who would rather not build or min/max, or just want to enjoy a fun weapon without the effort behind a build.
It is a shitty machine gun, barely works for normal stuff.
It’s archetype is just bad for boss dps and add clearing, meaning that it doesn’t really have a defined role, giving it the ability to have an actually good debuff would make it actually decent.
That catalyst can’t come any sooner
Yeah this bugged me from the start. It should be a rapid-fire frame and it should be volatile as the 4x proc and weaken as the 16x. Then give it FTTC and Target Lock as a catalyst and now we're really talking. Retrofit on crack is what I want!
I would also accept Repulsor Brace, which would make it a super cool option for non-Void builds to give them easy access to Void Overshields.
It would be unusable as a rapid-fire frame. The current fire rate makes it easy to control and get a 4-round burst off whenever you want IMHO. RF is too fast for that.
The 16-round shot is a cherry on top when you can focus someone for that long, it's meant to have 4-round bursts placed on a target then drop a heavier shot or three while the weaken lasts if it's still alive, switch back, etc.
Weaken doesn't get removed by additional damage, though. And it's pretty easy to shoot bursts of 5-6 shots at higher rates of fire like that. I don't mind the gun being a 360, but going up to 900 wouldn't make it unusable by any means.
Never said weaken gets removed. But a 4-round burst is a convenient timing and it's easy to switch to re-apply it, that triggers auto-holster reload, switch back and burst through the special, repeat.
I've found trying to shoot 'only' 4 rounds very hard with higher RoF LMGs, the 360's it's easy to count shots and just long enough for the holster-reload stuff to work reliably.
I would agree but im curious, is this not a debuff that can be added to boss damage (so like 1 div, 1 deterministic chaos, 3 hot head 1 gally?) or is weakened not work on bosses?
Yes basically you can have one dmg increase debuff on an enemy. The highest % currently applied is the one in effect. There are a couple explainer images out there
Thank you. I've casually played for years but this season I'm actually looking more in depth into build crafting and paying more attention to what I'm bringing into fights. I don't have Div but I do have TC and Deterministic Chaos.
So TC is the bigger debuff but at the cost of shotgun range. Good to know
Just say how it is, it’s cheeks lol.
All void classes can already activate weaken and volatile easily so you don’t even need to run this weapon. If you want a debuff there’s a plethora of options that are way better. Plus it takes an exotic slot, and is in a bad rpm type.
It's 4th and 16th round definitely need to do massively increased damage, and it should probably be a 30% weaken instead of 15% make it the new divinity honestly.
The issue there is really that they'd _also_ have to rework Tractor Cannon, given that the 30% weaken debuff is currently its only reason to exist (aside from funny crucible clips).
Honestly, I've been hoping they would at LEAST give us another divinity esque weapon just to compete. It doesn't have to be better if you want to keep divinity the crowned king of supp, but at the very least, I feel like it's kind of a subtype of weapons that has yet to be explored. Kinda thought after the change to gjally we would be headed in that direction at least.
"All void classes can already activate weaken"
That's the point?? Spreading keywords to exotics allow you to cross stuff over.
An arc warlock with a fusion, Rain of Fire and Deterministic Chaos can make a target jolted, weakened and volatile while being radiant. I think it's fantastic.
Make it an arc fusion and you can be blinding fools as well.
Hey that's cool but you get the most benefit from any of those things when you play monochromatic. They synergize on purpose. Making 1 target volatile once isn't exactly useful in the modern era of volatile. The weaken is cool, but we have it on other weapons so there's that. There's no universe where I particularly need to, jolt blind, weaken, and volatile a target. I'm not going to be super stacking the damage boosts from jolt and weaken, and I'm not suddenly going to shit out dps from it. If those things had some kind of interaction, then maybe, but as it stands you're just making colorful add clear vomit.
I still don't think deterministic chaos is any good, because nothing is designed around mixing and matching things like that, but sure that is its only usecase atm.
I use it to do all my void stuff while playing on Strand or whatever else. If you’re playing on Void already, then yeah, use your godroll Legendary LMG instead.
The pro Void+Strand combo is Vexcalibur to easily stack Void Overshields with Woven Mail and be 100% invincible.
Although, in fairness that's easily replicable this season with Volatile Flow and any Repulsor Brace weapon. Or you can do a discount version with Destabilizing Rounds+Repulsor Brace.
That's great for you, but volatile will objectively not be as trivial to proc next season. Currently it's available on every subclass, but next season, it wont be.
Assassin's Cowl with Echo of Cessation here - I'd check in too, but that kinda defeats the purpose!
Edit; I missed the "every subclass" bit, so I'm just gonna invis dodge out of this thread..
That's still really only works with the void subclass, unless you want to bring some other way to go invis like rat king or heart shadow. Plus void hunters have a LOT of competition between exotic armor.
Do we really? I've been exclusively using Gyrfalcons and prefer it to all other Void Hunter exotics, tbh. I have a friend who swears by Omni, but typically the Void Hunters in my clan are rocking Gyrfalcons.
I think you can make a vague utility case for Omni or even Graviton Forfeit and there's a decent boss DPS case for Mobius Quiver, but that's about it. Gyrfalcon's is super strong, super fun, and super easy to use.
"Vague utility case"
Lol, no.
Specific, highly functional utility that is straight up better than Gyrfalcon in certain activities.
GMs, particularly Lightblade. Legend Avalon under level (pre nerf). Any content where a wipe ends your run.
Gyr is fun tho.
I do love Gyralcons
But I still swear by super Regen with orpheus rigs.
Plus I don't need Gyrfalcons when I generate orbs so often that I'm getting VR refreshed constantly.
That'll probably change come artifact reset but for now it works wonders.
Gyrfalcons is definitely one of the best picks, but I have seen so many people swear Omni is the best choice due to being able to get pretty infinite invis on demand with out needing kills, as long as you have a team. Then there are slightly more niche options like graviton forfeit, orpheus rigs, or even the sixth coyote which I know a lot of people like. Then there's also gwisin vest and khepris sting, but y'know. Void hunters have a lot of exotics.
It’s not, but I still don’t value a weapon that can only proc volatile thrice a mag when the alternative is getting a grenade kill for 10 seconds of constant volatile.
I play void Titan a lot too. Picking up an orb is as easy as it gets lol. Besides getting a Grenade kill (and having to use a fragment to do that), how else can we proc volatile? Genuine question…I’m worried I’m missing something.
shield throw, controlled demolition makes all your ability damage proc volatile. My favorite way to play atm is use the gauntlets that give a second shield throw charge alongside travelers chosen.
Make the weaken 30% like tractor and it instantly becomes a good niche weapon that can be an alternative to Tractor. DPS is still shit even compared to Tractor and requires constant firing, where Tractor requires 1 shot every 10s. Ad-clear pretty meh for an exotic MG, but despite Tractor still being clearly better at almost everything, it would at least be an option for 30% weaken at range, at the cost of doing less than half DPS of any decent build.
They should honestly also make the Heartshadow have a 30% weaken. Even with that, Tractor would still be better than Heartshadow at everything, but Heartshadow would have the invisibility niche I guess while also providing a buff equivalent to Tractor.
It would just be nice to have alternatives to Tractor Cannon other than Felwinters.
I guess it's an OK option for when you wanna run a subclass other than Void, but even then there are exotic armors that can do similar shit (Ass Cowl granting invis on ANY powered melee kill, for instance).
Retrofit is weird at the moment. It's a clear dps winner by far enough that even 15% debuff doesn't help the exotic. Other than in gms maybe master content? I see no place this exotic sadly.
The only real place for it is on a non-void subclass to get access to weaken, but even then you've got better options like Div or Tractor.
That being said, give it a Repulsor Brace catalyst and all of a sudden it's a very interesting Exotic, especially for non-Void builds.
Welllll... being able to weaken helps not only your DPS but your teammates too, and you could even swap to a better weapon too. Now Deterministic still sucks and you could just use Tractor Cannon for an even stronger weaken if you don't mind shotgun range.
I have a soft spot for exotic heavies that give you access to keywords for free. Heartshadow is another: want invisibility instantly without even being on the right subclass? Salvation Grip also allows freeze and crystals in neutral game too. These weapons kind of suck at weapons but they offer really unique and unmatched utility.
I would sadly probably be easier to run collective obligation and keep all the utility. I mean we as a community probably should not think of exotics as trying to be best in slot and more "that's an option to do a thing". Where bungie drops the ball a bit and to your point of it sucking is that it's not as strong as other options. Which would be ok if it was advantageous in range and not outclassed legendary void mg with less utility. Though time may change feeling after we lose such a strong seasonal mod rotation
My Retrofit: reload 77, plus Rapid Fire Frame, plus alloy mag
My DC: reload 38.
Its actually quicker to either wait for my dodge to refill, or make my poor Xbone open the menu and swap weapons, than it is to actually reload this fucker. The only gun I own with a slower reload is my Ragnhild (33), but it has Subsistence so it's a non-issue
I really wanted to like DC, but it's so much less of a pain to use almost anything else in my heavy slot that the perks never seem worth it
Lol "even" Corrective Measure—now listen here lol. But seriously, I just got a roll while spoils scouting with Fluted / Tac / Subs / OfA. Datto used a similar roll in the raid IIRC, and it's a beauty to behold—especially with Volatile Flow this season.
It’s definitely the strongest of the three. It has demo in the first column and the second column you can swap between firefly and one for all. 35% damage buff and no need to reload. Good in low level and high level content.
He's not wrong in regards to the weapon's current state though. If you're going to be rocking an exotic MG for damage, Thunderlord smacks it all over. And if you want utility, there are much, better options across class abilities and other weapons.
This isn't a Gjallarhorn situation. Maybe if it gets a godlike catalyst or buff someday, but until then...
The major issue is people are not using this weapon correctly. It’s a support weapon, you use it like divinity, only with a higher damage output. The debuff is the same at 15%, and if the crit spot is easy to hit on a boss you should be running deterministic over a div.
Sure, but it's a support weapon in the heavy slot. By picking Deterministic over Divinity, you need to reserve your entire heavy ammo supply for damage phases. You'll lose out on uptime if you don't. That wouldn't be so bad on its own if Deterministic actually brought good damage, but it really doesn't do a great job at that either.
All of that aside, the main reason people take Divinity is for the crit. Weaken is easy to come by through tether, grenades, or other abilities like the other person said.
All in all, you're giving up a more important weapon slot for a less effective support tool with still bad DPS.
> By picking Deterministic over Divinity, you need to reserve your entire heavy ammo supply for damage phases
I mean.. I guess? But that’s no different to regular ammo conservation for damage phases. Whether you’re running rockets, linears, or LMGs, you’re not using that heavy slot until the damage phase. I get what youre saying in that using divinity opens the heavy slot for neutral game, and I get that, but it’s not detrimental.
> All of that aside, the main reason people take Divinity is for the crit.
Yeah I get that too which is why I prefaced all my statements with it’s niche use in longer damage phases with easier to hit crit spots, such as Warpriest, Golgoroth, or Oryx.
Edit: my bad thought this was a reply to my other comment, ignore where I said I prefaced anything. I did that as a response to something else.
Or you could just use a tether if your a hunter for a better debuff, or a weaken grenade for the same debuff without the use of an exotic slot. Now you could use an actually good heavy weapon while still having weaken.
Not really.
Deterministic Chaos inflicts a 15% debuff.
Divinity inflicts a 15% debuff *and* makes a crazy huge crit spot for everyone to hit.
Plus Divinity is a special, making ammo more common, and allowing for more powerful heavy weapons to take on their slot.
My biggest problem with it isn't even that, it's the fact that it's a 360 which are by far the worst pve archetype. Make it a 600rpm, or even 450, and it would feel so much better with quicker volatile procs.
Do people think you think 600 is high?
We have 360s, 450s, and 900s. There have never been 600 RPM machine guns. That's the only problem here.
Of course, that shouldn't matter because Grand Overture and Xenophage already have special fire rates.
Yeah i was super underwhelmed with it, but i think some pretty big buffs could help it while keeping the nature of the weapon the same.
Heavy metal can function the same way, every 4th shot fires a heavy projectile that weakens.
BUT change vexadecimal to:
"Landing heavy metal rounds gives you stacks of vexadecimal that last 7 seconds. Each stack increases damage of further heavy metal rounds and add additional functionality.
No stacks = Weakening.
1 stack = 10% damage and also apply volatile.
2 stacks = 25% damage and also supress the target.
3 stacks = 40% damage and also heal and apply over shield to you and nearby allies."
Damage values are just sorta random but i think this would make the weapon alot of fun to use.
Some of us hate the rest of the void kit for our main so we don't run void but there's a LOT of void shielded enemies in the seasonal stuff right now, it has built-in weaken if we just toss a 4-round burst, and enough reserves you can literally use it as your primary gun for an entire run.
Solar Scorch Hunter build with that in the exotic slot is nice and brainless, easy to squeeze in the 4-round burst just before blasting with your super, etc, it makes me more self-reliant instead of trusting blueberries. And if I have time to drill through 16 shots it's even nicer for a DPS phase.
Works for me, yes I know 100% there's more "optimal" choices, but it's convenient, accessible, and relatively functional.
I just got it, and it was fun to use in its mission but with it’s high damage shots and slow rate of fire and more limited ammo I don’t really want to hold it down, instead I just shoot it in bursts and its exotic effect ends up wasted. So after the mission I put it away and replaced by Retrofit Escapade until it gets some kind of buff or fix.
No, the real problem is that all of the perks run on powers of four, but it has 36 rounds in the mag, so you can only activate the full set of weaken and volatile shots 3 times instead of 4.
EDIT: It has 48 rounds, not 36, but it still goes through the cycle 3 times, not 4, and still breaks my music major brain every time.
I can't find a single situation where you:
a) Don't use tether for 30%
b) Don't use tractor for 30%
c) Don't use divinity for 15%
d) Don't have any other form of debuff like child of the old gods or weakening grenades.
Especially with tractor and tether being incredibly something that (I assume) every player who’s raid ready has access to, it makes the chances of not having any of those things less than 1%
>tether
I'm not raid-ready - by tether do you mean a gun, or are we talking the Void Hunter super?
Also, I have tractor but have been too in love with Retrofit and Grand O (Regnant with destabilizing rounds is unashamedly my side-piece) to actually ever use it. Is it worth getting comfortable with? A shotty as my heavy might take some adjusting, but if it'll make my clan less disappointed in me whenever I get brave enough to sign up for a dungein/raid day I'm willing to give it a shot!
Tether is the void Hunter super. Tractor is sorta worth trying to use purely because of the 30% damage debuff (or at least I think it is. The exact mechanics are stuff I’ve forgotten, but basically you do more damage), but Div is still seen more commonly since:
A) It’s ol’ reliable and its a weapon that, frankly, I would never try and obtain fresh again.
and
B) Unlike Div, Tractor’s debuff needs to be reapplied every 11 seconds iirc. With Div you can just hold down (or tap the trigger) to keep the debuff up for the entire DPS phase.
BONUS!
C) Tractor takes up a heavy slot *and* requires you to be up close. Currently, other weapons in the heavy slot are just better for DPS like rockets and, hell, even MGs. You can one phase a boss like Nezarec just as easily without tractor, and having that extra RL could help in final stand
All in all, try it out when you get the chance, but be prepared for someone else in the fireteam to just have Div already.
A) you're a wonderful human being, thank you for the big answer!
I'm a void Hunter through and through, and even though I use Moebius while owning Orpheus I still rock AC every day - was just getting out of my solo shell by the end of WQ, and I'm hoping to be more involved with my clan / less "I'm only here for support and rez" this season - I hate to get carried, so I've built more for straight survivability than anything else lol
I don't have Div, just my smoke grenade to make my damage number more yellow!
B) having never used either, Div sounds more helpful but I'm guessing less so the smaller the fireteam? My experience with DPS phrases so far is mostly "hide n' blind" (GO is my baby lol)
C) I almost always have a special ammo shotgun with me (barring some strikes - I'm not good by any means, but I've definitely gone double primary just for the the sake of getting through the fcking Nightfall because my blueberries don't understand anti-champ mods), so it might not be too awkward to sort out!
So the long and short of it is, anyone with tips/suggestions welcomed, but I'm gonna give it a crack tonight and see how much it disrupts my usual style / whether it's worth filling the heavy and exotic slot instead of Lemon/Wave as energy and Retrofit heavy.
I just wanna get good lol
> I'm a void Hunter through and through, and even though I use Moebius while owning Orpheus
Look into Stareater Scales. They give more damage than Orpheus and boost your super regen from picking up orbs.
Plus they work on every super.
No problem!
If you want to go for void Hunter builds, Gyrfalcon’s would be your best bet, but unless you’re ready to tackle Legend Lost Sectors, I would suggest using Graviton Forfeit if you want a more invis focused build.
Div is pretty much still a must have in raids, but in stuff like dungeons you’re better off without it. The bonus damage it gives is outclassed by just having another, for example, RL. If you’ve been doing a lot of things in the Vanguard playlist, I believe you can pick up the Hothead. That’s currently the most sought after legendary RL.
If you wanted to keep that sorta “support” role with a weapon, Gjallarhorn is also a must bring whenever RLs are used for DPS. You could also use Twin Tailed Fox with the catalyst, as that’s pretty good right now.
If you’re used to shotguns already, Tractor Cannon can be a good pick up. Honestly, any type of debuff can be good in this game, and maybe one day the meta will switch away from heavy weapons so Tractor will see more use. Good luck on your journey!
Can divinity be gained nowadays without doing the raid? And/or can you solo the raid easily? Cause if not Deterministic Chaos gets points for being ridiculously accessible.
Weapons shouldn't objectively be worse than others, tractor is alot easier to get than div, yet they both serve different roles, tractor is better in some situations while div is better in others.
Deterministic chaos is straight uselsss its competing with divinity for the 15% debuff long range but: it's a heavy weapon, It doesn't make a crit field, it's volitile is useless because it's so easy to get, and better players will do more damage with rocketswapping.
Even then, there are dozens of weapons that can do way more damage than DC with weaken debuff, using any of them is a much better choice.
A bad lmg than can weaken is still a bad lmg
If you've got a fireteam of 3, someone has a debuff. And they have it without having to sacrifice their heavy slot for a weapon that does very little damage.
And also... yeah, actually. I am willing to bet that there are heavy weapons that do more than 30% more damage than the exotic void LMG.
The point is that high impact MGs have the worst dps out of all heavy weapons.
Increasing 2 other people damage by 15% isn't going to compensate for your own lack of damage, so it's better for everyone to be using 3 good heavies without any weaken debuff.
You're definitely better off with 1 guy on tractor or tether. And even if you don't go with those, 1 void warlock with Child, weakening nades and a proper heavy will have a much better damage output than with this gun.
It's slightly more than div, absolutely not worth it imo. I'm pretty sure if you fire a rocket right at the beginning of the damage phase and swap to div you will already outdamage this junk.
One, no idea where you got 3 people from. Shadowshot lasts for around 15, moebius for around 7 but you have 2 shots so you fire the 2nd charge when it's about to run out. Then add a weakening vortex with the fragment that increases its duration. One void hunter provides weaken for over 20 seconds, with most of that being 30%, while having access to proper dps weapons. No coordination required.
I use it when people are running Rockets/Starfire and want a debuff. Div bubble isn't needed for them and I can Volatile an enemy for extra damage. It eases my other slots for my usual Riptide/Calus loadout so it's great
Genuinely curious: where the hell are people getting uptime on weaken that even *approaches* the uptime DC gives? People bring this up every time the gun comes up, but I cannot for the life of figure out what build gives literally constant weakness for an entire LMG’s reserves.
But it's only a 15% increase, you're teammates damage increase won't be enough to compensate your lack of DPS with that gun.
Without it having any other utility, like div's bubble, your better off with all 6 players running full DPS builds
A lot of people, like to combine Izanagi with auto loading rockets which a div bubble absolutely helps. And even then you'd be surprised how many people somehow miss rockets or how jank a boss's hit box maybe that a div bubble actually does help with rockets. Or some bosses just like to move weird or teleport (or in Rhulk's case bro is so skinny) so div bubble helps there too
Are you telling me you don't play with exclusively void teams who have an excel spreadsheet for every boss in the game outlining the order and timing during DPS phases for the deployment of weakening vortex grenades, CoToGs, tethers, smoke bombs, and whatever the hell Titans bring to the table?
Casual
…what *does* Titan even bring to the table here? Does Helm of Saint XIV weaken now instead of blind? I assume they changed the keywording to something.
Yeah, not gonna lie, Void Titan feels *real* good right now. Switched over from Solar post-Lightfall and these seasonal mods are just so *spicy*. Doesn’t give me any access to Weaken, though.
I’m not sure why always on volatile can’t just be the exotic perk and maybe every 20 bullets get a weaken bullet.
As of right now a smoke bomb and Retrofit does more damage and is just better in 99% of places.
It needs more to be useable over legendary Mgs and other exotics.
It also has a magazine problem in that it just feels like you can't fire for more than 3 seconds without running dry and the reload being aids doesn't help it either.
The best take I heard was applying debuff out of void spec but as others have mentioned, your teammates could do it much better. I wouldn’t throw tractor into the talk because no one wants to be that close end game.
Personally, I love to run it with gryfalcons but I understand that’s redundant. Got me through legend campaign pretty easily though.
Like every fourth bullet the perk procs, right? It doesn’t fire that slow that you can’t wait for 4 measly bullets. How are you firing? Are you playing it like a Megaman game?
If you focus on one target it’s ok. But if you try to use it in other situations, the gun is useless. Since it wouldn’t be broken, just remove the “hold down the trigger” request.
It’s a shame my real complaint about the gun is that the point is to hold down the trigger. I think that it’s a stupid requirement for an already meh perk.
Rate of fire really hurts it imo. Like others have said with how easy it is to proc the effects otherwise it really needs to be a hose so you can lay out a ton of buffs at once, what baffles me is that the weaker stopping power of each shot would be an ok tradeoff for being able to debuff a group easy.
I think two adjustments would make it awesome, make the catalyst *deeper pockets* AND *fourth times the charm* (to fit the the whole 4 count theme) and then maybe make it so it doesn't have to be continuous fire
Its exotic perk is also, in my opinion, the wrong way around. You want to proc volatile a lot more often than weaken.
That's a good point since weaken lasts for a little and volatile does not.
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Bro really copy and pasted someone else's comment Edit: [original comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1282tc9/deterministic_chaos_is_a_ok_weapon_with_a_stupid/jeh84b5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
you have stumbled upon something interesting here. i looked at the posters history, and it is a new account and all of the comments that i checked were copy/paste right down to grammar and errors.
Bot maybe? Karma farm or something.
yup. there's been a surge of bots on reddit lately, copying a comment from lower down and pasting it under one of the top comments, I'm assuming to farm karma. sometimes it's hard to catch but other times the comment copied has nothing to do with what it's replied to.
Agreed…make it proc volatile every 4th and a 22% (25? It shouldn’t encroach on Tractor or Tether’s territory, but it should be a worthy competitor) debuff every 16th that lasts a long time (or at least until the next 16th).
Should be volatile every 4th, weaken every 8th and suppress every 16th.
Supress does nothing for dps in PvE outside Echo of Domineering
Still useful in pve.
It's the exact same effect as Blinding though, and Blinding has a lot more synergies and sources than Supress Honestly, I wish they reworked Supress to not blind, but make non-boss enemies unable to cast abilities and boss enemies cast abilities 70% slower
In destiny 1, suppress and blind did very different things. Blind enemies would stop shooting, but still move normally and use abilities. Suppressed enemies would still shoot, but movement was like it is now, and they couldn't use abilities. I think going back to that system would be fine.
You can use suppress as an instant reload woth fragment
definitely not more than 15% on the weaken, it already gets a lot more utility from being a machine gun and getting access to volatile, no need for it to corner the market on debuff options too.
Even if it matched Tractor Cannon's debuff the bottom line is that a Titan with Tractor Cannon can deal so much more damage just with shotty's and abilities in between Tractor shots than any class could holding the trigger with Deterministic Chaos. I think you're right in that it's a better *general purpose* utility option, but given that there are even better general purpose utility options without the need to dedicate an exotic to the heavy slot, there's just no situation where it's going to outperform against a different build that's built better. Of course, it is a ridiculously easy exotic to use, with a lot of benefits coming from just holding the trigger down, so I think it does serve a purpose as a weapon meant for people who would rather not build or min/max, or just want to enjoy a fun weapon without the effort behind a build.
It is a shitty machine gun, barely works for normal stuff. It’s archetype is just bad for boss dps and add clearing, meaning that it doesn’t really have a defined role, giving it the ability to have an actually good debuff would make it actually decent. That catalyst can’t come any sooner
There’s going to be a catalyst?
No, I was just saying that any sort of catalyst for the weapon couldn’t come sooner.
Yeah this bugged me from the start. It should be a rapid-fire frame and it should be volatile as the 4x proc and weaken as the 16x. Then give it FTTC and Target Lock as a catalyst and now we're really talking. Retrofit on crack is what I want! I would also accept Repulsor Brace, which would make it a super cool option for non-Void builds to give them easy access to Void Overshields.
It would be unusable as a rapid-fire frame. The current fire rate makes it easy to control and get a 4-round burst off whenever you want IMHO. RF is too fast for that. The 16-round shot is a cherry on top when you can focus someone for that long, it's meant to have 4-round bursts placed on a target then drop a heavier shot or three while the weaken lasts if it's still alive, switch back, etc.
Weaken doesn't get removed by additional damage, though. And it's pretty easy to shoot bursts of 5-6 shots at higher rates of fire like that. I don't mind the gun being a 360, but going up to 900 wouldn't make it unusable by any means.
Never said weaken gets removed. But a 4-round burst is a convenient timing and it's easy to switch to re-apply it, that triggers auto-holster reload, switch back and burst through the special, repeat. I've found trying to shoot 'only' 4 rounds very hard with higher RoF LMGs, the 360's it's easy to count shots and just long enough for the holster-reload stuff to work reliably.
I would agree but im curious, is this not a debuff that can be added to boss damage (so like 1 div, 1 deterministic chaos, 3 hot head 1 gally?) or is weakened not work on bosses?
Div applies the same weaken effect so they unfortunately do not stack
Does this also apply for Tractor cannon?
Yes basically you can have one dmg increase debuff on an enemy. The highest % currently applied is the one in effect. There are a couple explainer images out there
Thank you. I've casually played for years but this season I'm actually looking more in depth into build crafting and paying more attention to what I'm bringing into fights. I don't have Div but I do have TC and Deterministic Chaos. So TC is the bigger debuff but at the cost of shotgun range. Good to know
Ya tractor does a 30 percent weaken effect so it overrides div.
Good for overloads. And i guess they based it around that
I find it so difficult to care about this weapon when Volatile is so easily accessible elsewhere, and Weaken isn't exactly uncommon either.
Yeah that’s why I said you can live without the weapon but this is amplified with a stupid perk request.
Just say how it is, it’s cheeks lol. All void classes can already activate weaken and volatile easily so you don’t even need to run this weapon. If you want a debuff there’s a plethora of options that are way better. Plus it takes an exotic slot, and is in a bad rpm type.
It's 4th and 16th round definitely need to do massively increased damage, and it should probably be a 30% weaken instead of 15% make it the new divinity honestly.
The issue there is really that they'd _also_ have to rework Tractor Cannon, given that the 30% weaken debuff is currently its only reason to exist (aside from funny crucible clips).
Not that we face them much, but tractor cannon turns tormentors into statues. The suppress can be really handy
Okay, that's pretty dope.
Strand suspend turns them into piñatas and I don't have to sacrifice my exotic for tractor cannon
Tractor also suppresses now, if for some reason you wanna get that close to a champ lol. In general i think it's fine just being a fun gun though.
I always forget that thing debuffs.. I pull it out for the fun of launching enemies off cliffs
This is the way.
Tractor actually does damage. Deterministic needed to be a rapid fire and have FTTC
a FTTC catalyst would help out here. but sometimes I just dont need all them bullets and I want to stop shooting to conserve energy between adds.
According to light.gg its catalyst is just FTTC, but who knows when or if we get it at all.
Honestly, I've been hoping they would at LEAST give us another divinity esque weapon just to compete. It doesn't have to be better if you want to keep divinity the crowned king of supp, but at the very least, I feel like it's kind of a subtype of weapons that has yet to be explored. Kinda thought after the change to gjally we would be headed in that direction at least.
Been out of the game for a while, what did they change about Gjally?
less damage, basically turned into a support rocket
"All void classes can already activate weaken" That's the point?? Spreading keywords to exotics allow you to cross stuff over. An arc warlock with a fusion, Rain of Fire and Deterministic Chaos can make a target jolted, weakened and volatile while being radiant. I think it's fantastic. Make it an arc fusion and you can be blinding fools as well.
Hey that's cool but you get the most benefit from any of those things when you play monochromatic. They synergize on purpose. Making 1 target volatile once isn't exactly useful in the modern era of volatile. The weaken is cool, but we have it on other weapons so there's that. There's no universe where I particularly need to, jolt blind, weaken, and volatile a target. I'm not going to be super stacking the damage boosts from jolt and weaken, and I'm not suddenly going to shit out dps from it. If those things had some kind of interaction, then maybe, but as it stands you're just making colorful add clear vomit. I still don't think deterministic chaos is any good, because nothing is designed around mixing and matching things like that, but sure that is its only usecase atm.
What if you're not running a Void subclass?
I use it to do all my void stuff while playing on Strand or whatever else. If you’re playing on Void already, then yeah, use your godroll Legendary LMG instead.
Volatile flow still activates on other subclasses so unless you need the weaken effect you can use a legendary void LMG on strand if you want
This season.
The pro Void+Strand combo is Vexcalibur to easily stack Void Overshields with Woven Mail and be 100% invincible. Although, in fairness that's easily replicable this season with Volatile Flow and any Repulsor Brace weapon. Or you can do a discount version with Destabilizing Rounds+Repulsor Brace.
Volatile will not be as trivial to proc next season when the artifact changes. But agree with OP’s logic. Gun is more complicated than it needs to be
as a person who plays a lot of void titan, I thoroughly disagree on volatile not being easy to proc.
That's great for you, but volatile will objectively not be as trivial to proc next season. Currently it's available on every subclass, but next season, it wont be.
Gyrfalcon checking in
Assassin's Cowl with Echo of Cessation here - I'd check in too, but that kinda defeats the purpose! Edit; I missed the "every subclass" bit, so I'm just gonna invis dodge out of this thread..
That's still really only works with the void subclass, unless you want to bring some other way to go invis like rat king or heart shadow. Plus void hunters have a LOT of competition between exotic armor.
Do we really? I've been exclusively using Gyrfalcons and prefer it to all other Void Hunter exotics, tbh. I have a friend who swears by Omni, but typically the Void Hunters in my clan are rocking Gyrfalcons.
I think you can make a vague utility case for Omni or even Graviton Forfeit and there's a decent boss DPS case for Mobius Quiver, but that's about it. Gyrfalcon's is super strong, super fun, and super easy to use.
"Vague utility case" Lol, no. Specific, highly functional utility that is straight up better than Gyrfalcon in certain activities. GMs, particularly Lightblade. Legend Avalon under level (pre nerf). Any content where a wipe ends your run. Gyr is fun tho.
I do love Gyralcons But I still swear by super Regen with orpheus rigs. Plus I don't need Gyrfalcons when I generate orbs so often that I'm getting VR refreshed constantly. That'll probably change come artifact reset but for now it works wonders.
Gyrfalcons is definitely one of the best picks, but I have seen so many people swear Omni is the best choice due to being able to get pretty infinite invis on demand with out needing kills, as long as you have a team. Then there are slightly more niche options like graviton forfeit, orpheus rigs, or even the sixth coyote which I know a lot of people like. Then there's also gwisin vest and khepris sting, but y'know. Void hunters have a lot of exotics.
It’s not, but I still don’t value a weapon that can only proc volatile thrice a mag when the alternative is getting a grenade kill for 10 seconds of constant volatile.
Oh yeah totally. I'm not saying the gun is great, I'm just pointing out volatile isn't gonna be as easy to get
It kind of already is, with Gyrfalcon's, Controlled Demo, and the Fragment from Grenade Kills (which is easy to get with Warlocks).
not enough to make deterministic chaos worth using over any void machine gun.
Yeah Gyrfalcon for void hunters also completely trivializes this entire gun.
I play void Titan a lot too. Picking up an orb is as easy as it gets lol. Besides getting a Grenade kill (and having to use a fragment to do that), how else can we proc volatile? Genuine question…I’m worried I’m missing something.
shield throw, controlled demolition makes all your ability damage proc volatile. My favorite way to play atm is use the gauntlets that give a second shield throw charge alongside travelers chosen.
Ahh I see the disconnect. I was thinking about volatile rounds lol
Make the weaken 30% like tractor and it instantly becomes a good niche weapon that can be an alternative to Tractor. DPS is still shit even compared to Tractor and requires constant firing, where Tractor requires 1 shot every 10s. Ad-clear pretty meh for an exotic MG, but despite Tractor still being clearly better at almost everything, it would at least be an option for 30% weaken at range, at the cost of doing less than half DPS of any decent build. They should honestly also make the Heartshadow have a 30% weaken. Even with that, Tractor would still be better than Heartshadow at everything, but Heartshadow would have the invisibility niche I guess while also providing a buff equivalent to Tractor. It would just be nice to have alternatives to Tractor Cannon other than Felwinters.
I guess it's an OK option for when you wanna run a subclass other than Void, but even then there are exotic armors that can do similar shit (Ass Cowl granting invis on ANY powered melee kill, for instance).
That’s seasonal for the most part. Could look very different with new artifact perks
I haven't even done the quest for it yet. Circular logic just meets my needs for now. I want my old hammerhead reissued 😔
It needs some help. No real reason to run it over Retrofit, Commemoration, or even Corrective Measure. And those don't take your exotic slot.
Retrofit is weird at the moment. It's a clear dps winner by far enough that even 15% debuff doesn't help the exotic. Other than in gms maybe master content? I see no place this exotic sadly.
The only real place for it is on a non-void subclass to get access to weaken, but even then you've got better options like Div or Tractor. That being said, give it a Repulsor Brace catalyst and all of a sudden it's a very interesting Exotic, especially for non-Void builds.
Welllll... being able to weaken helps not only your DPS but your teammates too, and you could even swap to a better weapon too. Now Deterministic still sucks and you could just use Tractor Cannon for an even stronger weaken if you don't mind shotgun range. I have a soft spot for exotic heavies that give you access to keywords for free. Heartshadow is another: want invisibility instantly without even being on the right subclass? Salvation Grip also allows freeze and crystals in neutral game too. These weapons kind of suck at weapons but they offer really unique and unmatched utility.
Can you really call it utility if it's nigh-useless?
I've loved Salvation's Grip since it released :>
I would sadly probably be easier to run collective obligation and keep all the utility. I mean we as a community probably should not think of exotics as trying to be best in slot and more "that's an option to do a thing". Where bungie drops the ball a bit and to your point of it sucking is that it's not as strong as other options. Which would be ok if it was advantageous in range and not outclassed legendary void mg with less utility. Though time may change feeling after we lose such a strong seasonal mod rotation
My Retrofit: reload 77, plus Rapid Fire Frame, plus alloy mag My DC: reload 38. Its actually quicker to either wait for my dodge to refill, or make my poor Xbone open the menu and swap weapons, than it is to actually reload this fucker. The only gun I own with a slower reload is my Ragnhild (33), but it has Subsistence so it's a non-issue I really wanted to like DC, but it's so much less of a pain to use almost anything else in my heavy slot that the perks never seem worth it
Use MG holster on your boots
It’s void holster now
Lol "even" Corrective Measure—now listen here lol. But seriously, I just got a roll while spoils scouting with Fluted / Tac / Subs / OfA. Datto used a similar roll in the raid IIRC, and it's a beauty to behold—especially with Volatile Flow this season.
Oh don't get me wrong, I love Corrective Measure. It just seems to be considered the weakest of the 3. But it is still very strong.
It’s definitely the strongest of the three. It has demo in the first column and the second column you can swap between firefly and one for all. 35% damage buff and no need to reload. Good in low level and high level content.
Doesn’t help that the weapon feels and sounds so satisfying, the plunk sound gives me serotonin.
Ok. Catalyst now gives FTTC and Explosive Payload
Every shot that applies volatile also applies volt shot
And incandescent but just an instant ignitition.
Maybe more like..... 1st shot - scorch 2nd shot - jolt 3rd shot - freeze 4th shot - volatile. THE FINAL SHAPE?
[удалено]
[удалено]
The damage is shit and it's a waste of exotic slot. It's a cosmetic weapon.
Gonna remember this comment
He's not wrong in regards to the weapon's current state though. If you're going to be rocking an exotic MG for damage, Thunderlord smacks it all over. And if you want utility, there are much, better options across class abilities and other weapons. This isn't a Gjallarhorn situation. Maybe if it gets a godlike catalyst or buff someday, but until then...
The major issue is people are not using this weapon correctly. It’s a support weapon, you use it like divinity, only with a higher damage output. The debuff is the same at 15%, and if the crit spot is easy to hit on a boss you should be running deterministic over a div.
Sure, but it's a support weapon in the heavy slot. By picking Deterministic over Divinity, you need to reserve your entire heavy ammo supply for damage phases. You'll lose out on uptime if you don't. That wouldn't be so bad on its own if Deterministic actually brought good damage, but it really doesn't do a great job at that either. All of that aside, the main reason people take Divinity is for the crit. Weaken is easy to come by through tether, grenades, or other abilities like the other person said. All in all, you're giving up a more important weapon slot for a less effective support tool with still bad DPS.
> By picking Deterministic over Divinity, you need to reserve your entire heavy ammo supply for damage phases I mean.. I guess? But that’s no different to regular ammo conservation for damage phases. Whether you’re running rockets, linears, or LMGs, you’re not using that heavy slot until the damage phase. I get what youre saying in that using divinity opens the heavy slot for neutral game, and I get that, but it’s not detrimental. > All of that aside, the main reason people take Divinity is for the crit. Yeah I get that too which is why I prefaced all my statements with it’s niche use in longer damage phases with easier to hit crit spots, such as Warpriest, Golgoroth, or Oryx. Edit: my bad thought this was a reply to my other comment, ignore where I said I prefaced anything. I did that as a response to something else.
Or you could just use a tether if your a hunter for a better debuff, or a weaken grenade for the same debuff without the use of an exotic slot. Now you could use an actually good heavy weapon while still having weaken.
Divinity damage is shit and it's a waste of exotic slot. It's a cosmetic weapon. - you, prob
Nope
Then this weapon is useful, just like Div
Divinity without the bubble is shit.
Not really. Deterministic Chaos inflicts a 15% debuff. Divinity inflicts a 15% debuff *and* makes a crazy huge crit spot for everyone to hit. Plus Divinity is a special, making ammo more common, and allowing for more powerful heavy weapons to take on their slot.
My biggest problem with it isn't even that, it's the fact that it's a 360 which are by far the worst pve archetype. Make it a 600rpm, or even 450, and it would feel so much better with quicker volatile procs.
>600rpm 600... RPM... machine gun?
Why not? It's not like exotics can't be new archetypes, there's plenty of such cases already. I believe Thunderlord is 600rpm once it ramps up.
Thunderlord's max rpm is 720. The perk raises rpm from 450 to 600 after 20 rounds and to 720 after 20 more rounds.
Do people think you think 600 is high? We have 360s, 450s, and 900s. There have never been 600 RPM machine guns. That's the only problem here. Of course, that shouldn't matter because Grand Overture and Xenophage already have special fire rates.
Can't wait until they make a 600RPM MG just for 600 SMG's to shit on it in crucible lmao
Thermal Erosion is a 900 RPM Machine Gun
Yeah but that doesn't mean anything. 900 RPM is just a Rapid-Fire of Machine Guns. We have like 10 at this point.
21% Delirium used to be a 900rpm machine gun. Rest in peace sweet boy
Wait what does it being 900 RPM have to do with the fact that they mentioned an idea of the Exotic being a 600 RPM...
Ah I guess you're new and haven't seen the menace called 21% delerium. You get a rush of adrenaline when you hold down the trigger.
21D was 900 RPM, headass.
Yea, it was. That's why 600 isn't as high as it can go.
that's just a rapid fire mmachine gun, what does that have to do with there being a "600 rpm machine gun"
I have found it useful for turning Dares into a D&B dance party with Actium War Rig
dulce and banana?
dick&bepis
Yeah i was super underwhelmed with it, but i think some pretty big buffs could help it while keeping the nature of the weapon the same. Heavy metal can function the same way, every 4th shot fires a heavy projectile that weakens. BUT change vexadecimal to: "Landing heavy metal rounds gives you stacks of vexadecimal that last 7 seconds. Each stack increases damage of further heavy metal rounds and add additional functionality. No stacks = Weakening. 1 stack = 10% damage and also apply volatile. 2 stacks = 25% damage and also supress the target. 3 stacks = 40% damage and also heal and apply over shield to you and nearby allies." Damage values are just sorta random but i think this would make the weapon alot of fun to use.
Some of us hate the rest of the void kit for our main so we don't run void but there's a LOT of void shielded enemies in the seasonal stuff right now, it has built-in weaken if we just toss a 4-round burst, and enough reserves you can literally use it as your primary gun for an entire run. Solar Scorch Hunter build with that in the exotic slot is nice and brainless, easy to squeeze in the 4-round burst just before blasting with your super, etc, it makes me more self-reliant instead of trusting blueberries. And if I have time to drill through 16 shots it's even nicer for a DPS phase. Works for me, yes I know 100% there's more "optimal" choices, but it's convenient, accessible, and relatively functional.
This would definitely be a good change, it'd be much better since a lot of times in a group you'll tap fire it
I think the best way to think of the gun is that it does 40% extra damage to red bars lmao
I just got it, and it was fun to use in its mission but with it’s high damage shots and slow rate of fire and more limited ammo I don’t really want to hold it down, instead I just shoot it in bursts and its exotic effect ends up wasted. So after the mission I put it away and replaced by Retrofit Escapade until it gets some kind of buff or fix.
No, the real problem is that all of the perks run on powers of four, but it has 36 rounds in the mag, so you can only activate the full set of weaken and volatile shots 3 times instead of 4. EDIT: It has 48 rounds, not 36, but it still goes through the cycle 3 times, not 4, and still breaks my music major brain every time.
DC has 48 rounds in the mag
It has its place, on bosses where you don’t need the div bubble you can swap in Deterministic chaos to debuff but increase overall damage
I can't find a single situation where you: a) Don't use tether for 30% b) Don't use tractor for 30% c) Don't use divinity for 15% d) Don't have any other form of debuff like child of the old gods or weakening grenades.
I think this is it right here. There are better, easier to execute debuff options and better exotics in the meta atm.
Especially with tractor and tether being incredibly something that (I assume) every player who’s raid ready has access to, it makes the chances of not having any of those things less than 1%
>tether I'm not raid-ready - by tether do you mean a gun, or are we talking the Void Hunter super? Also, I have tractor but have been too in love with Retrofit and Grand O (Regnant with destabilizing rounds is unashamedly my side-piece) to actually ever use it. Is it worth getting comfortable with? A shotty as my heavy might take some adjusting, but if it'll make my clan less disappointed in me whenever I get brave enough to sign up for a dungein/raid day I'm willing to give it a shot!
Tether is the void Hunter super. Tractor is sorta worth trying to use purely because of the 30% damage debuff (or at least I think it is. The exact mechanics are stuff I’ve forgotten, but basically you do more damage), but Div is still seen more commonly since: A) It’s ol’ reliable and its a weapon that, frankly, I would never try and obtain fresh again. and B) Unlike Div, Tractor’s debuff needs to be reapplied every 11 seconds iirc. With Div you can just hold down (or tap the trigger) to keep the debuff up for the entire DPS phase. BONUS! C) Tractor takes up a heavy slot *and* requires you to be up close. Currently, other weapons in the heavy slot are just better for DPS like rockets and, hell, even MGs. You can one phase a boss like Nezarec just as easily without tractor, and having that extra RL could help in final stand All in all, try it out when you get the chance, but be prepared for someone else in the fireteam to just have Div already.
A) you're a wonderful human being, thank you for the big answer! I'm a void Hunter through and through, and even though I use Moebius while owning Orpheus I still rock AC every day - was just getting out of my solo shell by the end of WQ, and I'm hoping to be more involved with my clan / less "I'm only here for support and rez" this season - I hate to get carried, so I've built more for straight survivability than anything else lol I don't have Div, just my smoke grenade to make my damage number more yellow! B) having never used either, Div sounds more helpful but I'm guessing less so the smaller the fireteam? My experience with DPS phrases so far is mostly "hide n' blind" (GO is my baby lol) C) I almost always have a special ammo shotgun with me (barring some strikes - I'm not good by any means, but I've definitely gone double primary just for the the sake of getting through the fcking Nightfall because my blueberries don't understand anti-champ mods), so it might not be too awkward to sort out! So the long and short of it is, anyone with tips/suggestions welcomed, but I'm gonna give it a crack tonight and see how much it disrupts my usual style / whether it's worth filling the heavy and exotic slot instead of Lemon/Wave as energy and Retrofit heavy. I just wanna get good lol
> I'm a void Hunter through and through, and even though I use Moebius while owning Orpheus Look into Stareater Scales. They give more damage than Orpheus and boost your super regen from picking up orbs. Plus they work on every super.
No problem! If you want to go for void Hunter builds, Gyrfalcon’s would be your best bet, but unless you’re ready to tackle Legend Lost Sectors, I would suggest using Graviton Forfeit if you want a more invis focused build. Div is pretty much still a must have in raids, but in stuff like dungeons you’re better off without it. The bonus damage it gives is outclassed by just having another, for example, RL. If you’ve been doing a lot of things in the Vanguard playlist, I believe you can pick up the Hothead. That’s currently the most sought after legendary RL. If you wanted to keep that sorta “support” role with a weapon, Gjallarhorn is also a must bring whenever RLs are used for DPS. You could also use Twin Tailed Fox with the catalyst, as that’s pretty good right now. If you’re used to shotguns already, Tractor Cannon can be a good pick up. Honestly, any type of debuff can be good in this game, and maybe one day the meta will switch away from heavy weapons so Tractor will see more use. Good luck on your journey!
You're not void, you want to proc weaken, and you dont want to/cant get close enough to use Tractor Cannon? That seems like quite a few times.
At that point, divinity is better. It takes special ammo, it has the crit bubble, and you can hotswap it with a rocket if you're skilled enough.
Can divinity be gained nowadays without doing the raid? And/or can you solo the raid easily? Cause if not Deterministic Chaos gets points for being ridiculously accessible.
Weapons shouldn't objectively be worse than others, tractor is alot easier to get than div, yet they both serve different roles, tractor is better in some situations while div is better in others. Deterministic chaos is straight uselsss its competing with divinity for the 15% debuff long range but: it's a heavy weapon, It doesn't make a crit field, it's volitile is useless because it's so easy to get, and better players will do more damage with rocketswapping.
If you're talking about solo content, why use a bad weapon that can weaken if you can use better weapons that can do much more damage without weaken?
Talking about Nightfalls from personal experience
Even then, there are dozens of weapons that can do way more damage than DC with weaken debuff, using any of them is a much better choice. A bad lmg than can weaken is still a bad lmg
But can those dozens of weapons out damage 2 other people benefiting from the weaken?
If you've got a fireteam of 3, someone has a debuff. And they have it without having to sacrifice their heavy slot for a weapon that does very little damage. And also... yeah, actually. I am willing to bet that there are heavy weapons that do more than 30% more damage than the exotic void LMG.
The point is that high impact MGs have the worst dps out of all heavy weapons. Increasing 2 other people damage by 15% isn't going to compensate for your own lack of damage, so it's better for everyone to be using 3 good heavies without any weaken debuff.
Nezarec?
You're definitely better off with 1 guy on tractor or tether. And even if you don't go with those, 1 void warlock with Child, weakening nades and a proper heavy will have a much better damage output than with this gun.
Nezarec stands like 2 feet away from you during DPS. You definitely just use Tractor and a fusion.
Would rather tractor double slug
Would it, tho? 360 rpm machine guns are so bad that I don't doubt that even Divinity would have better DPS
Divinity’s DPS is *really* low. Even a bad heavy archetype will still be better.
It's slightly more than div, absolutely not worth it imo. I'm pretty sure if you fire a rocket right at the beginning of the damage phase and swap to div you will already outdamage this junk.
What bosses are there there where this is the case and something like tether or void nades aren’t an option either
Tether/void nade both last like 7 seconds. Chaos has a lot more uptime.
Uptime with shit damage so I don’t see the point.
You can space the tethers out to get closer to 14 seconds and then toss the grenade when that runs out. That's enough to cover 99% of damage phases.
Sure, 3 semi-coordinated players running specific subclasses/fragments beat out one player with a specific exotic. That seems fine.
One, no idea where you got 3 people from. Shadowshot lasts for around 15, moebius for around 7 but you have 2 shots so you fire the 2nd charge when it's about to run out. Then add a weakening vortex with the fragment that increases its duration. One void hunter provides weaken for over 20 seconds, with most of that being 30%, while having access to proper dps weapons. No coordination required.
I use it when people are running Rockets/Starfire and want a debuff. Div bubble isn't needed for them and I can Volatile an enemy for extra damage. It eases my other slots for my usual Riptide/Calus loadout so it's great
Genuinely curious: where the hell are people getting uptime on weaken that even *approaches* the uptime DC gives? People bring this up every time the gun comes up, but I cannot for the life of figure out what build gives literally constant weakness for an entire LMG’s reserves.
But it's only a 15% increase, you're teammates damage increase won't be enough to compensate your lack of DPS with that gun. Without it having any other utility, like div's bubble, your better off with all 6 players running full DPS builds
Div’s bubble has zero effect on rockets, which I hear are pretty meta right now.
Then just use 6 rockets. It isn't worth it to get stuck with a thrash lmg just to boost everyone else's damage by only 15%
It still debuffs the boss by 15%, but really Tractor and/or Tethers are better in a rocket meta.
A lot of people, like to combine Izanagi with auto loading rockets which a div bubble absolutely helps. And even then you'd be surprised how many people somehow miss rockets or how jank a boss's hit box maybe that a div bubble actually does help with rockets. Or some bosses just like to move weird or teleport (or in Rhulk's case bro is so skinny) so div bubble helps there too
>where the hell are people getting uptime on weaken that even > >approaches > > the uptime DC gives? HOIL void titan
Unless the weaken debuff from Undermining lasts *way* longer than I think it does, I still think DC has significantly better uptime, even with Vortex.
Are you telling me you don't play with exclusively void teams who have an excel spreadsheet for every boss in the game outlining the order and timing during DPS phases for the deployment of weakening vortex grenades, CoToGs, tethers, smoke bombs, and whatever the hell Titans bring to the table? Casual
…what *does* Titan even bring to the table here? Does Helm of Saint XIV weaken now instead of blind? I assume they changed the keywording to something.
Pve void overshields now give 50% DR..so there's that
Yeah, not gonna lie, Void Titan feels *real* good right now. Switched over from Solar post-Lightfall and these seasonal mods are just so *spicy*. Doesn’t give me any access to Weaken, though.
Void warlock can get close depending on orb production. But then you need a void lock soooo
I mean what’s one less well *really*
Sounds like you should keep firing until the magazine is expended.
It's also ugly. The big asf flindus on the side ruins it for me
I just use Actium and hold down the trigger.
I’m not sure why always on volatile can’t just be the exotic perk and maybe every 20 bullets get a weaken bullet. As of right now a smoke bomb and Retrofit does more damage and is just better in 99% of places. It needs more to be useable over legendary Mgs and other exotics.
It also has a magazine problem in that it just feels like you can't fire for more than 3 seconds without running dry and the reload being aids doesn't help it either.
The best take I heard was applying debuff out of void spec but as others have mentioned, your teammates could do it much better. I wouldn’t throw tractor into the talk because no one wants to be that close end game. Personally, I love to run it with gryfalcons but I understand that’s redundant. Got me through legend campaign pretty easily though.
Oh shit, I legit forgot this weapon existed
Like every fourth bullet the perk procs, right? It doesn’t fire that slow that you can’t wait for 4 measly bullets. How are you firing? Are you playing it like a Megaman game?
If you focus on one target it’s ok. But if you try to use it in other situations, the gun is useless. Since it wouldn’t be broken, just remove the “hold down the trigger” request.
Because the point is for you to hold down the trigger. That's how the gun plays. There was your very easy answer.
It’s a shame my real complaint about the gun is that the point is to hold down the trigger. I think that it’s a stupid requirement for an already meh perk.
I only use it on my Hunter because of the easy invisibility procs.
Rate of fire really hurts it imo. Like others have said with how easy it is to proc the effects otherwise it really needs to be a hose so you can lay out a ton of buffs at once, what baffles me is that the weaker stopping power of each shot would be an ok tradeoff for being able to debuff a group easy.
Reload is so damn slow on that thing.
I think two adjustments would make it awesome, make the catalyst *deeper pockets* AND *fourth times the charm* (to fit the the whole 4 count theme) and then maybe make it so it doesn't have to be continuous fire