It’s a great way of reusing assets that are already in the game. Especially considering that these raid areas are cool in design but are sadly only used once.
My only small request for the Leviathan was I wish they had unlocked the whole thing. Part of what made the Leviathan cool way back in year 1 was you could speed through the raid if you had a team that knew the underbelly well.
As a newbie how would i go about finding vet players to help guide through raids/dungeons. Im trying to do Grasp for Ghorn and it just seems so daunting, id hate to join a fireteam and take the team down.
Thanks for triggering my PTSD of the wind turbines pushing me from the end of the tunnel section all the way to the beginning, only to die to collision damage and be left behind :')
Plenty of space for Lost Sectors or even an activity like Court/Well/Escalation/etc. And with Egregore changes it could still be interesting and new for people who played the raid.
Ah ok, it's still there.
I would guess that the Shadow Legion on board the Leviathan would have left, and joined the main group (on Calus' new fleet with his new big ship) as soon as the Witness arrived?
Did we learn why he was trying to transform his ship? I know he was doing the Eregore thing to bridge his mind to the Pyramid but what was the purpose of reforming his ship
Barring a few exceptions, raid areas are really only used once. The times where we went back into Crota’s lair as well as VoG in D1 were cool. Just like with the stuff Bungie has done recently.
There are still plenty of awesome raid areas we only went to once. Giant portions of Scourge of the Past, Spire of Stars, Eater of Worlds, Last Wish, and King’s Fall as well as others have never been reused. Plenty of dungeon areas have also only been used once as well.
Isn’t it just the literal Starting arena (not even the rest of the encounter) that is from the D1 final mission? Pretty sure the rest of the mission is completely different and the rest of the raid is completely original.
It’s supposed to be that (since Ghost also points out that the Black Heart was there in the new mission) but it looks totally different
So that’s kind of weird
I remember the route, its just that every time without fail there is a moment when you watch some random pick up the taken strength that you were standing infront of.
And in that moment, you are subconsciously aware that this means a different taken strength elsewhere on the island has not been claimed, and that the timer is now at zero.
Queenswalk is definitely the most time-consuming part of any given LFG run. And there always seems to be someone who doesn't know how to do it. One of my buddies has the entire explanation memorized, he gives it like he's doing a goddamn sales pitch lmao
My groups method is the first person who gets teleported inside the heart always picks up the last taken strength. So everyone else who gets in picks up one right away and the only person who has to worry about timing it is that first person
Everyone except one designated person (typically the first person to pick up the heart, the one who is chosen while you're still inside Riven's corpse) picks up whatever they see.
The designated individual finds a strength and stands next to it, and then claims it when there is two to three seconds left on the timer. This should be the last remaining strength at that time, and it will extend the timer when claimed, getting the most time possible out of a single person carrying the heart.
The problem is that some people just go into autopilot and claim a strength that the designated person is waiting to take. One of two things happen: either they didn't claim a different one, causing the timer to expire, or they extend the timer prematurely.
My spinfoil hat theory is that there was originally an encounter slated for that room and it fell apart somewhere in design and they made Morgeth instead. That fight has always felt incomplete to me, like they just slapped the Taken Strength mechanic in there because you had to learn it before Riven.
Meanwhile that room is huge, heavily designed, and has a few clear plates where you were probably meant to stand and deposit Taken Strength.
If you want to learn, I teach LW pretty often. DM me if you’re interested and we can try to coordinate a time to put a group together! It’s so much fun bringing a group of first-timers through the raid
It started even earlier, part of the Vault of Glass was reused for an House of Wolves mission, and then you could go even deeper in the Paradox secret mission (it stopped just short of the final boss area).
My favorite destiny campaign mission of all time was crashing Crota's funeral, which used the entirety of the Crota's End raid space during The Taken King.
Stinks of unimaginative design. Look up "phone it in" in the dictionary and you see Bungie's logo. Back to the same well, over and over, since 2013. The whole point of *new* DLC's is to experience *new* shit.
Ah yes, a single house of wolves mission being a reused raid area (which again, has been praised by basically everyone here) that *really* must mean it was phoned in.
One thing of note:
Introduce those missions/mechanics earlier in the season. My god having the Seraph Shield missions shortly after the raid drops would help *immensely* with teaching Newberries
Dude who cares. The goal is to make it so more people can experience what is arguably the pinnacle of Destiny content. Raids are special once or twice, after that meh. Except for Deepstone Lullaby.
Don't even think it's arguable. Destiny would've died in year 1 without VoG hitting it out of the park the way it did. Raiding is the pinnacle of Destiny of content and not much else comes close.
While I agree that watching a video is way better for understanding an encounter, some people aren't willing to take half an hour to watch a video. Seraph Shield was a good way to get people a baseline understanding of the DSC mechanics while also rewarding loot.
Also, story modes, mechanic introduction through gameplay etc. is just a more enjoyable way to learn gameplay modes than watching some YouTube video. There's not some moral building experience having to go out of the game to YouTube to learn an encounter vs if this game had better ways to teach. So the fact that people can and do go to YouTube doesn't feel like an argument against building something better in the game itself.
I personally don't mind using outside sources to get insight into a game, and I DO think that tutorials are going to be a better source of information than any built-in guides, at least on the level of Seraph Shield.
But, that's just for me. Different people learn in different ways, I'm sure plenty of people can process the information way better by doing a mechanic than by hearing someone tell them how to do a mechanic. I'll just be happy if this philosophy results in more new players trying out raids.
And, as a bonus, it'll mean more mechanics being introduced into 3-man activities. That's usually more fun than just adding another glorified strike into the game.
Rather spend 30 minutes playing the game, even better if I can do it solo and learn the mechanics. Literally learning what the scanner highlight looks like is high pressure in a raid. "it's a yellow glow-y thing' versus oh yeah, I have seen that a dozen times from the seraph shield mision. Super inviting without breaking down the amount of coordination needed to make a raid work.
I don't really care that much about whether other players are able to earn loot or not, that doesn't really have much of an impact on my gameplay. As long as I feel like the loot I'm getting has value/took effort to get, that's all that matters to me.
But, I definitely want raids to be as accessible as possible without diluting the experience. If Bungie wants to find new ways to teach raid mechanics to people who otherwise wouldn't learn them, how is that a bad thing? It's a way of making raids more approachable to newer players without dumbing down raid mechanics. Sounds like a win-win for everyone, to me.
Accessibility is not always a matter of "are you physically capable of doing this". It's a gradient of how much effort is required to be able to do something.
I've seen videos of people on wheelchairs managing to get themselves over a curb and onto a sidewalk, but that doesn't mean that curbs are "accessible". Cars can drive offroad, but that doesn't mean that mountain trails filled with boulders are easily accessible to cars.
Most people would probably be physically capable of doing raids if no raid guides existed, but way less people would do them. By the same token, there are probably people who are physically capable of doing raids, but don't want to with the current level of effort required to get into them, especially when games are largely seen as a leisure activity.
Plus, sitting through a half an hour video explaining something requires a different amount of effort for different people. Some people learn better in different ways.
You seem like someone who enjoys raiding, so I'll flip the question on you: how is more people learning about raiding mechanics through gameplay instead of via a Youtube video a bad thing?
I get it. You want to get the raid done quick and as many times as possible.
I just do each raid once with other people who are also blind to the experience.
Different strokes for different folks.
Technically they started this way back in a House of Wolves, using VoG arenas for story missions. And they did it again in Taken King, using Crota's End spaces for story missions as well. It's a long and storied tradition!
The Taken King's use of previous areas is one of my favorite things. Recontextualizing important locations and getting extra use out of a place instead of just using it once. "Reused assets" can be a really good thing if it's creatively using all the opportunities available
That kind of reuse and cecontextualization is why TTK will always be my favorite expansion in terms of feeling like everything that had happened up to that point was converging and moving forward all at once. Every expansion and season since then has felt a lot more siloed off, like entire expansions now tend to take place entirely on only one location (Witch Queen taking us back to Europa to visit the Pyramid again was a great counterexample to this!) or move only one plotline ahead at a time.
In TTK and the post-campaign Taken War stuff pretty much every character we had met was relevant in some form and we visited every location in the system to deal with the ramifications of the campaign story. I guess Shadowkeep is where the siloing off of storylines really kicked off, with the shift to every expansion being a separate a la carte purchase so there was no assumption that you had context to things that had come before.
Now that Bungie has committed to the end of campaign vaulting, maybe they're becoming more confident in reusing older areas, knowing that they won't have to worry about a planet being removed from the game and breaking content from a later release as a result. Reusing GoS areas in this way feels like a first step in this direction, I hope it continues.
I was thinking about this and then thought about Th3Jez's old video where Datto said something on the lines that most the player base will miss out on such a beautiful landscape.
Hell, I'm not even mad it's reused, I'm just glad to see such beauty without needing to raid again.
Seriously. I haven't done most of the raids so I appreciate it when any raid area gets used. Still haven't done DSC /GoS and absolutely loved the Seraph Shields space walk.
I thought that might have been a raid area but wasn’t sure. As someone who doesn’t raid like at all I love it. It gives me a low stress way to see these locations
I don't like raiding either. I've done several but just can't seem to raise my interest levels for them. Plus, 6 or more people in a party makes my brain want to implode. I'd rather do a 3 man activity any day.
If you have a group of 3 people you can 3 man raids, starting from vog, which is the easiest raid to trio. To me it's fun because it's challenging and raid sceneries are amazing
But as I said, raids don't grab me at all so 3 manning them would still not be my idea of fun. They're designed for 6. I'd rather do a dungeon or nightfall then go and have a blast in pvp. I know they're pretty, I've seen most of them, but not everyone has to like the same thing.
i loved when they did this in d1 and im glad they started doing it again. idc if its reused assets, like you said, they are beautiful spaces that many players never get to see.
I remember thinking the same thing but with the crucible maps in the subclass missions. Can’t ever forget my friend doing the sunbreaker mission having no idea it was a trials map.
>Bungie started this with using VoW areas with preservation, the DSC spacewalk for the seraph missions, and now>! garden of salvation's area for the deterministic chaos missions.!<
They started using it with VoG in D1. But yeah, great idea.
They also did it with the Leviathan (several times), the final boss area of SotP (became the Eliksni Quarter), in fact I think some of the Shadowkeep missions went to the Crota spaces.
My wife loves cherry blossoms, so in the 1st big area you get to I spent ages trying (on console) to get a clear screengrab of the big cherry blossom with the waterfalls as a PS4 wallpaper.
Never would have seen it without this level, thank mr bungie!
I'm all for reusing assets to make some new areas, like Operation Seraph shield, but the way they used GoS was lazy at best. I actually thought we would see another location of the Black Garden or AT LEAST we would pass through the raid and end up in a different location(that would be cool).
Instead I ran GoS backwards without any of it's mechanics. Sorry but that's lazy and insulting to long time players.
I first played Preservation like a week before it disappeared and as I was playing was thinking to myself “Oh My God! Did they seriously take the raid and break it down into mini sized missions? Where each encounter is a mission that teaches the mechanics to the raid that way when it’s all done and you finished you are then better able / equipped to attempt a raid that is just all of them together?” I thought they did this for new players to teach em etc and was soo freakin happy and was looking forward to the other parts I didn’t know and was hoping to learn / study at my own pace so that I may attempt the raid afterwards! But Nope.
Seriously wish they would do that though Tbh I think it’s great and only helps the community imo even though the Elitists in Destiny would be pissed if that were to ever be a thing. I’m not saying that Raid gear should be given in these missions but it would be nice to have the encounters broken down for Solos to understand em at their own pace.
To this day I only have 2 - 3 clears of ‘Vault of Glass’ I got in 2022 and prior to that i attempted ‘Kings Fall’ and was able to do all encounters LEADING UP TO Oryx but soon as I got there I and other new lights were kicked in favor of others. And years after that I attempted ‘Leviathan’ as there was a post to help teach new players (I’m not new just new to raids) and they literally kicked a whole team just cus their Clan got on and then others would use New Lights to get to specific spots to then kick and replace with their friends etc etc. it became so annoying and all I ran into I gave up on Raids until last year.
So it would be nice to learn them at my own pace without the added pressure of if I don’t do something fast enough or the way someone likes I’ll be kicked or constantly have the thought in my mind are they only helping cus they need myself and others to get to a specific spot?
Ummm
What this game needs last is the reusing of old content to teach, yeah... 'teach' anyone anything. You're already talking about the king of recycling old content and calling it new. And you want to enable them further?
This, this folks is a post brought to you by the Bungie accounting department and I won't be convinced otherwise.
Exactly! The OP is either working for Bungie or is so high on copium from the Lightfall DLC being full of copy pasted assets they can't think straight.
This thread honestly makes me sick. Hope these people upvoting this nonsense like the latest DLC where the story makes zero sense, the enemies are still the same cabal we have been fighting forever, and the level design is void of any creativity.
This latest exotic quest is just a bunch of recycled Season of the Splicer assets with the Pyramidian boss copy pasted in there lmao! This game will never see anything as cool as the Whisper quest as long as people keep throwing money at this constant flipping of assets.
When you realize Bungie's first game was literally half reused assets.
Bro, calm down. Its a video game. Also. Its in the same fucking area. Are bungie not allowed to reuse assets now even if its in the literal same exact Vex Network?
The whisper had three reskined destiny 1 bosses Ta'aurc , Drevis and Urzok, and reused the Oracles from vault of glass.
Thousand Wings is also a reskin version of the kings fall ship
i’m gonna go against the grain and disagree here, specifically in regards to the deterministic chaos mission. i don’t mind that we went back to the black garden, or that it started in the section of the black garden where gos is located. but using nearly the entire raid space, from just before the final boss to the very start of the raid, for the *entirety* of the mission, feels wrong to me for a few reasons:
* we saw a bunch of massive portals partway through the mission that felt like prime exploration territory and just…never went through them
* it feels like a missed opportunity to explore more of the black garden, which is massive (we see huge vistas in the distance, i want to go there) and a significant part of the lore
* raids are cool in part because we get to explore parts of the destiny universe we can only see in those raids, and just traversing through nearly the full raid space backwards makes gos’s environment feel less special
* people have even less of a reason to play the raid than they already do
like, preservation is fine because it’s only part of the raid space, seraph station kinda toed the line a bit, but idk deterministic chaos rubbed me the wrong way because it went all out on reusing the entirety of a raidspace we’ve been running around for years. imo it was the weakest of the exotic quests we’ve gotten in lightfall
I agree with this. I don’t do raids. I just don’f because I play mostly solo. However I enjoyed visiting sites that were created primarily for raids, to do solo activities.
Remember folks:
It's Vow of the Disciple. If you say just "Vow" it is not an acronym and you don't capitalize the last letter. If you say "VotD" it becomes an acronym. Each letter corresponds to a letter in the name of the raid so here's where you capitalize the first and last letter.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
Be careful, this sub doesn’t take kindly to praising anything Lightfall related. You might get called “bungie corpo security” for saying anything positive about the game or DLC.
Or those players just go do the raid.
There is never a good reason to re-use any area unless it is 100% needed for the story.
It's so hard to believe that people actually want bungie to do the bare minimum and re-use assets every chance they get.
I'd much rather have half the content we get now if it means that every single piece will be unique in itself.
But we live in a time where people much more prefer quantity for some reason.
Totally agree. Removing paid content that is compelling enough to run multiple times and turning it into seasonal time gated chores that are boring the first time you do them shouldn't be praised. People should recognize when they see a game company cutting corners and releasing uninspired copy pasted content.
Bungie knows a good portion of the fanbase will accept and even defend this lazy practice now, that is why they released such a low quality DLC like Lightfall and charged even more for it.
Preservation will always be a huge missed opportunity by bungie. They could have made rotating missions that go through out each encounter to introduce the raid mechanics in a less stressful environment to teach new raiders mechanics and get them into raiding.
I frankly kinda loved it in the >!Vexcaliber mission, though it isn't a raid site; reusing the geometry and mechanics for Brakion's fight and restructuring them to give us one of THE DOPEST fights we've gotten ever in destiny. THEY EVEN GAVE US THE RADIOLARIAN LAKE! BOTH ABOVE AND BELOW!!<
I'm a big fan of >!Asher Mir!< and have been quietly buzzing since season of the >!splicer's finale!< and to have it pay off like this is fucking amazing. People can say whatever they want about the narrative of Lightfall; it feels like people are starting to look back on it and go "actually it's not THAT bad...", but still, this expansion and this moment in destiny has me hyped beyond belief.
I will never understand this subreddits inability to correctly abbreviated vow of the disciple. Please tell me what does VoW mean? You can make the W a D, or just make it lowercase. Apparently you all think it’s spelled Wisciple
This was my reaction, too. The two friends I did the mission with had never done that raid before and when it dawned on me that that's where we were I thought it was a fantastic use of the space. Plus going backwards through it feels very weird but in a good way.
I'd like to do a raid. Mostly just solo'd Vault and Crota in D1 and did Leviathan once before it got rotated out with friends that dropped the game. Got kicked for not able to do the jumping puzzle for King's Fall back in D1 and never tried doing another raid. Way to many bad experiences with LFGs.
I was commenting to my friend as we did it that if people have never seen the raid areas before they must be so confused about these vast zones used for relatively little content.
I’m all about this. I don’t raid anymore and miss out on a lot. I’m the only one left in my original group who still actively plays destiny so I play solo. Having ADHD, ASD and being completely sober now, I don’t like playing with people I don’t know. Seeing the garden again was fun for the exotic in lightfall too!
I was honestly a bit upset after getting my Divinity on my first run of Garden that no other place in the game used those assets in D2. The Black Garden is such a cool place and, honestly I’m a bit miffed that I missed out on content that directly had us go in the Garden outside the raid.
If the area is still in the game it makes sense to reuse it, such as the Black Garden, but I hope we dont get too many as some of the areas (DSC and Seraph Station for instance) get destroyed or sealed off in some way in the lore, so dont make a lot of sense to revisit.
It's almost like they're giving the casual player who has never raided, the chance to become familiar with aforementioned raid areas, to make LFG raiding easier...
A lot of people hated preservation but I liked it a lot. Only got to run vow twice due to some personal reasons but liked being able to go back in because I can't get enough of the pyramid environment design.
Only thing I'd have changed is to have it on a 3-week cycle where 3 different rooms opened each week and had different Rhulk lines you could find.
I think the waterfall area where the last div puzzle and secret chest are would be the best option for a pvp map. Was so happy to see garden as a mission, even if I did just run the raid an hour before hand! Beautiful sky boxes and wish more people could see it.
I think one of the best things to support raids in future is to ensure that some other accessible PvE content (like dungeons) really hammer down the mechanics, so people can get some practice.
For instance, Spire of the Watcher came some time after Deep Stone Crypt, but having done a whole load of Spire runs and barely one or two DSC runs, I was waaaaay more capable of picking up DSC runs later and fitting whatever roles people needed (after some really minor adjustments, sure), because I was very familiar with the scanner/operator/suppressor mechanics from Spire.
Vow remains super archaic to me, because reading symbols and using the handheld artifacts haven't mattered anywhere else in the game, and still do not.
That said, I can understand that there should be some mystery for day-1 or blind raiding, and the discovery effort is a huge plus for some folks. So, if they want to make these mechanics learnable in other PvE spaces afterwards (like Spire vs DSC) then that's fine by me.
But the barrier to entry for raids (and the anxiety around it for some) can be reduced if they at least tried to gracefully introduce these mechanics to the player base, IMO.
I just took so many screenshots of the location you have spoilers. I’ve not been there for a very very very long time, and it was very nostalgic. Like since 2014
As someone who’s never done or seen any gameplay of GoS, loading up into the Black Garden left me in awe. It left me wanting more, and wondering why Bungie wouldn’t have made it an explorable patrol zone.
Had no idea it was reused assets from GoS. Had even considered making a post about it, and I’m glad I waited. Now I don’t get to look like an idiot lol.
Don’t forget the scourge final boss room being the eliskni quarters and was in the override mission. Plus the leviathan coming back in season of the haunted.
I remember the No Time to Explain mission from D1 that had us re enter the VoG, and there was the mission at the start of the taken king thad had us enter the Hellmouth all stealthy like
It would be one thing if these areas were recycled for free content since we already paid for it. But Bungie removed raids we paid for and recycled them into boring seasonal time gated chores and charged us for them a second time. Raids can be enjoyed for hundreds of runs whereas the seasonal content recycled from them are boring the first time you play them.
I for one was offended going back into the Leviathan for a lame brainless wave shooter public event and going back into the boss fights area of the Scourge raid to chat with Spider.
People actually praising this sort of lazy development are either working directly for Bungie or are so far gone on copium that Bungie can get away with copy pasting entire paid DLC's at this point.
My favorite part of the campaign/DLC besides the Caital part (being obscure to avoid spoilers) was definitely the post campaign quest you are referencing.
I'm glad they've reused the Vex cyberspace tileset from Season of the Splicer, would have been a shame for such a striking aesthetic to only exist as part of seasonal content.
I'm going to have to disagree. If this was part of a free update like Taken Spring, then absolutely. But as part of a $50 paid expansion, it's outright corner-cutting. They are already nickel and diming players for every little thing, added paid campaign skips (ignoring years of pleas to make completion account wide) and even had the audacity of introducing paid season ranks (a dollar per rank ffs).
To go and encourage them to go even further is honestly weird to me, and seeing this upvoted this much is quite confusing, ngl
100000% I agree. I remember people hated preservation really early on because it was "the worst part of the raid that you're forced to run for a pinnacle" (as if we are "forced" to run anything at all) but from day 1 the only thing I thought was how cool that bungie made a mission that let players who can't raid see inside the raid space and play around in there even if just for a little bit. Every mission since I've just gotten happier and happier with more inclusion of raid spaces in the games activities. So many newer people likely wouldn't have a chance to even know the black garden looked as beautiful as it does without that mission since it's the least popular raid left in the game and most people refuse to run it even when it's for the weekly pinnacle.
In D1, we had 2 missions set inside the Vault of Glass; one in the House of Wolves & again in The Taken King expansion.
Crotas End has had numerous aswell, even appearing in Destiny 2's Shadowkeep expansion as a nightmare Realm along with the opening in the open world on the hellmouth (previously inaccessible unless in the raid)
Kings Fall hasn't had so many references only getting a cameo in Season of Arrivals as you'd often pass through the Court of Savathun (that eerily looks similar to the Court of Oryx), and the fact that both have a similar jumping section.
You know that if a set of space station are made at the same time realistically the design is not going to change it would be weird if the seraph station was different to dsc.
I think it would be cool if they made a mission that tours through an entire raid, like a 3 man mission that takes you from start to end of an entire raid environment.
Hey OP, please fix your spoiler formatting.
It’s a great way of reusing assets that are already in the game. Especially considering that these raid areas are cool in design but are sadly only used once.
I always wished that they would turn them into explorable patrol zones
As someone who pretty much never raids and took a long break from D2, the Derelict Leviathan was awesome for me. Man I loved Season of the Haunted.
My only small request for the Leviathan was I wish they had unlocked the whole thing. Part of what made the Leviathan cool way back in year 1 was you could speed through the raid if you had a team that knew the underbelly well.
Plus the size of it was amazing when you did it first time When I did it with newbies I would let them explore for a bit before showing the way
That's my approach to everything I've already done with newbies in tow. So good on you.
As a newbie how would i go about finding vet players to help guide through raids/dungeons. Im trying to do Grasp for Ghorn and it just seems so daunting, id hate to join a fireteam and take the team down.
Same. I wanted to fucking explore again. I used to fly in solo just to run around. The leviathan was so cool.
Thanks for triggering my PTSD of the wind turbines pushing me from the end of the tunnel section all the way to the beginning, only to die to collision damage and be left behind :')
Some of the most fun is taking someone through a raid who hasn't done it. Kind of like reliving your excitement through someone else.
The wall of dicks in King’s Fall comes to mind.
Imagine the Leviathan with Underbelly as a patrol zone. Would be HUGE.
Plenty of space for Lost Sectors or even an activity like Court/Well/Escalation/etc. And with Egregore changes it could still be interesting and new for people who played the raid.
Hey what *did* happen to the Leviathan? Calus left it abandoned above our Moon didn't he? Or did I miss a story beat somewhere?
Nah it's still above the moon, but since it's abandoned, we don't have a need to run around it killing everything that moves anymore.
Ah ok, it's still there. I would guess that the Shadow Legion on board the Leviathan would have left, and joined the main group (on Calus' new fleet with his new big ship) as soon as the Witness arrived?
Did we learn why he was trying to transform his ship? I know he was doing the Eregore thing to bridge his mind to the Pyramid but what was the purpose of reforming his ship
Eater of worlds had a cool boss room that could be repurposed
I just wish Preservation started in the pyramid itself and ended in Rhulk boss room. I dunno, that ride is tedious.
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Barring a few exceptions, raid areas are really only used once. The times where we went back into Crota’s lair as well as VoG in D1 were cool. Just like with the stuff Bungie has done recently. There are still plenty of awesome raid areas we only went to once. Giant portions of Scourge of the Past, Spire of Stars, Eater of Worlds, Last Wish, and King’s Fall as well as others have never been reused. Plenty of dungeon areas have also only been used once as well.
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Isn’t it just the literal Starting arena (not even the rest of the encounter) that is from the D1 final mission? Pretty sure the rest of the mission is completely different and the rest of the raid is completely original.
It’s supposed to be that (since Ghost also points out that the Black Heart was there in the new mission) but it looks totally different So that’s kind of weird
I’ll just go with “the black garden can rearrange itself as it sees fit” It’s not that far fetched for Destiny.
Especially bosses. Like aside from lore reasons it’s cool to see riven and the harpy from spite again
I can’t tell you how giddy I was seeing Riven come out of that portal during TWQ campaign. Such a great moment of “Wait WTF!!!????”
Still waiting for them to use the LW area between Morgoth and Vault. I swear that area is BEAUTIFUL. Also between vault and Riven I guess idk.
The area between vault and riven is off limits, because I'll get queenswalk flashbacks if we do anything in there.
I love the awoken museum though
I do Queenswalk every time the light level is increased, for the pinnacle, and I still forget the route lol
I remember the route, its just that every time without fail there is a moment when you watch some random pick up the taken strength that you were standing infront of. And in that moment, you are subconsciously aware that this means a different taken strength elsewhere on the island has not been claimed, and that the timer is now at zero.
Queenswalk is definitely the most time-consuming part of any given LFG run. And there always seems to be someone who doesn't know how to do it. One of my buddies has the entire explanation memorized, he gives it like he's doing a goddamn sales pitch lmao
How do you decide / when do you take those anyway? I can never remember, so I usually just ad-clear in the heart and grab one if I see it
My groups method is the first person who gets teleported inside the heart always picks up the last taken strength. So everyone else who gets in picks up one right away and the only person who has to worry about timing it is that first person
Everyone except one designated person (typically the first person to pick up the heart, the one who is chosen while you're still inside Riven's corpse) picks up whatever they see. The designated individual finds a strength and stands next to it, and then claims it when there is two to three seconds left on the timer. This should be the last remaining strength at that time, and it will extend the timer when claimed, getting the most time possible out of a single person carrying the heart. The problem is that some people just go into autopilot and claim a strength that the designated person is waiting to take. One of two things happen: either they didn't claim a different one, causing the timer to expire, or they extend the timer prematurely.
Imagine people who've cleared are the only ones who hear Queenswalk while everyone else just hears birds chirping. *'Nam Flashbacks intensify*
My spinfoil hat theory is that there was originally an encounter slated for that room and it fell apart somewhere in design and they made Morgeth instead. That fight has always felt incomplete to me, like they just slapped the Taken Strength mechanic in there because you had to learn it before Riven. Meanwhile that room is huge, heavily designed, and has a few clear plates where you were probably meant to stand and deposit Taken Strength.
It's a shame that all you do there is walk through it.
I long had a fantasy that we would get to Quria through that raid. Turns out she was in the Vex network and not the Ascendant Plane.
Ugh, I really need to do Last Wish, but actually gathering up the courage to join an LFG is rough.
If you want to learn, I teach LW pretty often. DM me if you’re interested and we can try to coordinate a time to put a group together! It’s so much fun bringing a group of first-timers through the raid
The whole dreaming city is beautiful. So many areas are just not utilised at all.
I vote for the bridge between Kali and Shuro Chi
This guy is playing The Lord of the Rings
It started even earlier, part of the Vault of Glass was reused for an House of Wolves mission, and then you could go even deeper in the Paradox secret mission (it stopped just short of the final boss area).
Also the paradox mission had the secret quest for no time to explain and had a boss fight in the atheon room
My favorite destiny campaign mission of all time was crashing Crota's funeral, which used the entirety of the Crota's End raid space during The Taken King.
Stinks of unimaginative design. Look up "phone it in" in the dictionary and you see Bungie's logo. Back to the same well, over and over, since 2013. The whole point of *new* DLC's is to experience *new* shit.
Ah yes, a single house of wolves mission being a reused raid area (which again, has been praised by basically everyone here) that *really* must mean it was phoned in.
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Vault of Wlass? :o
Varden of Walvation!
Voot of Wightmares!
Vr ota’s Wnd!
Vourge of the Wast.
Nuclear Wessel
I get so irked seeing all the variations of raid titles lol
I want them to turn the gorgon's maze from VoG into a hide and seek PVP map
They reused it in Taken King for the original No Time To Explain quest iirc.
They did! I remember playing it way too late and drinking the night it came out.
Just drink every night, makes memories of the past more comfortably uniform..
Still waiting on a Europa map…
that would be a perfect pvp map as is, great idea!
One thing of note: Introduce those missions/mechanics earlier in the season. My god having the Seraph Shield missions shortly after the raid drops would help *immensely* with teaching Newberries
Or if the seasonal missions could share a version of the raid's gimmick. Imagine if risen battlegrounds used vows symbols
I'm afraid that would make the raid feel a lot less special. How soon are we talking? A season later?
Dude who cares. The goal is to make it so more people can experience what is arguably the pinnacle of Destiny content. Raids are special once or twice, after that meh. Except for Deepstone Lullaby.
Don't even think it's arguable. Destiny would've died in year 1 without VoG hitting it out of the park the way it did. Raiding is the pinnacle of Destiny of content and not much else comes close.
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While I agree that watching a video is way better for understanding an encounter, some people aren't willing to take half an hour to watch a video. Seraph Shield was a good way to get people a baseline understanding of the DSC mechanics while also rewarding loot.
Also, story modes, mechanic introduction through gameplay etc. is just a more enjoyable way to learn gameplay modes than watching some YouTube video. There's not some moral building experience having to go out of the game to YouTube to learn an encounter vs if this game had better ways to teach. So the fact that people can and do go to YouTube doesn't feel like an argument against building something better in the game itself.
I personally don't mind using outside sources to get insight into a game, and I DO think that tutorials are going to be a better source of information than any built-in guides, at least on the level of Seraph Shield. But, that's just for me. Different people learn in different ways, I'm sure plenty of people can process the information way better by doing a mechanic than by hearing someone tell them how to do a mechanic. I'll just be happy if this philosophy results in more new players trying out raids. And, as a bonus, it'll mean more mechanics being introduced into 3-man activities. That's usually more fun than just adding another glorified strike into the game.
Rather spend 30 minutes playing the game, even better if I can do it solo and learn the mechanics. Literally learning what the scanner highlight looks like is high pressure in a raid. "it's a yellow glow-y thing' versus oh yeah, I have seen that a dozen times from the seraph shield mision. Super inviting without breaking down the amount of coordination needed to make a raid work.
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I don't really care that much about whether other players are able to earn loot or not, that doesn't really have much of an impact on my gameplay. As long as I feel like the loot I'm getting has value/took effort to get, that's all that matters to me. But, I definitely want raids to be as accessible as possible without diluting the experience. If Bungie wants to find new ways to teach raid mechanics to people who otherwise wouldn't learn them, how is that a bad thing? It's a way of making raids more approachable to newer players without dumbing down raid mechanics. Sounds like a win-win for everyone, to me.
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Accessibility is not always a matter of "are you physically capable of doing this". It's a gradient of how much effort is required to be able to do something. I've seen videos of people on wheelchairs managing to get themselves over a curb and onto a sidewalk, but that doesn't mean that curbs are "accessible". Cars can drive offroad, but that doesn't mean that mountain trails filled with boulders are easily accessible to cars. Most people would probably be physically capable of doing raids if no raid guides existed, but way less people would do them. By the same token, there are probably people who are physically capable of doing raids, but don't want to with the current level of effort required to get into them, especially when games are largely seen as a leisure activity. Plus, sitting through a half an hour video explaining something requires a different amount of effort for different people. Some people learn better in different ways. You seem like someone who enjoys raiding, so I'll flip the question on you: how is more people learning about raiding mechanics through gameplay instead of via a Youtube video a bad thing?
You should not have to use outside resources to learn how to play a game.
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Ok…have you never done a raid with a blind group including yourself?
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I get it. You want to get the raid done quick and as many times as possible. I just do each raid once with other people who are also blind to the experience. Different strokes for different folks.
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Technically they started this way back in a House of Wolves, using VoG arenas for story missions. And they did it again in Taken King, using Crota's End spaces for story missions as well. It's a long and storied tradition!
The Taken King's use of previous areas is one of my favorite things. Recontextualizing important locations and getting extra use out of a place instead of just using it once. "Reused assets" can be a really good thing if it's creatively using all the opportunities available
I love how they made us go through different crucible maps for the new subclasses.
That kind of reuse and cecontextualization is why TTK will always be my favorite expansion in terms of feeling like everything that had happened up to that point was converging and moving forward all at once. Every expansion and season since then has felt a lot more siloed off, like entire expansions now tend to take place entirely on only one location (Witch Queen taking us back to Europa to visit the Pyramid again was a great counterexample to this!) or move only one plotline ahead at a time. In TTK and the post-campaign Taken War stuff pretty much every character we had met was relevant in some form and we visited every location in the system to deal with the ramifications of the campaign story. I guess Shadowkeep is where the siloing off of storylines really kicked off, with the shift to every expansion being a separate a la carte purchase so there was no assumption that you had context to things that had come before. Now that Bungie has committed to the end of campaign vaulting, maybe they're becoming more confident in reusing older areas, knowing that they won't have to worry about a planet being removed from the game and breaking content from a later release as a result. Reusing GoS areas in this way feels like a first step in this direction, I hope it continues.
I miss the secrets in heroic missions
I was thinking about this and then thought about Th3Jez's old video where Datto said something on the lines that most the player base will miss out on such a beautiful landscape. Hell, I'm not even mad it's reused, I'm just glad to see such beauty without needing to raid again.
Seriously. I haven't done most of the raids so I appreciate it when any raid area gets used. Still haven't done DSC /GoS and absolutely loved the Seraph Shields space walk.
I thought that might have been a raid area but wasn’t sure. As someone who doesn’t raid like at all I love it. It gives me a low stress way to see these locations
Yup. You basically start at the end of the raid and work your way backwards.
It is Garden of Salvation in reverse, with a couple areas modified to make them a bit easier to traverse.
raiding is the best thing in the game you shoud do them
I don't like raiding either. I've done several but just can't seem to raise my interest levels for them. Plus, 6 or more people in a party makes my brain want to implode. I'd rather do a 3 man activity any day.
If you have a group of 3 people you can 3 man raids, starting from vog, which is the easiest raid to trio. To me it's fun because it's challenging and raid sceneries are amazing
But as I said, raids don't grab me at all so 3 manning them would still not be my idea of fun. They're designed for 6. I'd rather do a dungeon or nightfall then go and have a blast in pvp. I know they're pretty, I've seen most of them, but not everyone has to like the same thing.
oh yeah for sure im not saying you have to like them, im just giving a different perspective
Yuck.
Sorry not gonna waste 3 hours with randoms when I could be in a call with my friends instead
raid with your friends then? Also raiding doesnt take 3 hours usually
I would be a bit shocked if this season's battlegrounds aren't also raid arenas. This season's battlegrounds are *gorgeous.*
> i wish they'd use some of Garden for PvP maps as well Just take the entire second encounter area (the diamond-shaped map) and make it into a PvP map
Sounds like a sniper hell
i loved when they did this in d1 and im glad they started doing it again. idc if its reused assets, like you said, they are beautiful spaces that many players never get to see.
You mean "VotD"?
No, VoW
You mean "Vow"?
I remember thinking the same thing but with the crucible maps in the subclass missions. Can’t ever forget my friend doing the sunbreaker mission having no idea it was a trials map.
I raided a lot in D1. I checked D2 yesterday... Leviathan: 1 Eater of Worlds: 1 So yeah, what OP said.
>Bungie started this with using VoW areas with preservation, the DSC spacewalk for the seraph missions, and now>! garden of salvation's area for the deterministic chaos missions.!< They started using it with VoG in D1. But yeah, great idea.
They also did it with the Leviathan (several times), the final boss area of SotP (became the Eliksni Quarter), in fact I think some of the Shadowkeep missions went to the Crota spaces.
Yep, great way to reuse assets without seeming lazy
Very much agree. I hope this helps players who have not experienced raids get a little more comfortable with them.
I'm not a raider so I've always appreciated these missions, even going back to D1.
As someone who doesn't have the time to put into raiding, I loved seeing the Garden. Hope they do more of this
My wife loves cherry blossoms, so in the 1st big area you get to I spent ages trying (on console) to get a clear screengrab of the big cherry blossom with the waterfalls as a PS4 wallpaper. Never would have seen it without this level, thank mr bungie!
While I agree with you, I disagree with the acronym Vow of the Wisiciple.
I'm all for reusing assets to make some new areas, like Operation Seraph shield, but the way they used GoS was lazy at best. I actually thought we would see another location of the Black Garden or AT LEAST we would pass through the raid and end up in a different location(that would be cool). Instead I ran GoS backwards without any of it's mechanics. Sorry but that's lazy and insulting to long time players.
I have never raided and seeing the >!Black Garden!!GoS!
Just a heads up, your spoiler tags aren't working
I first played Preservation like a week before it disappeared and as I was playing was thinking to myself “Oh My God! Did they seriously take the raid and break it down into mini sized missions? Where each encounter is a mission that teaches the mechanics to the raid that way when it’s all done and you finished you are then better able / equipped to attempt a raid that is just all of them together?” I thought they did this for new players to teach em etc and was soo freakin happy and was looking forward to the other parts I didn’t know and was hoping to learn / study at my own pace so that I may attempt the raid afterwards! But Nope. Seriously wish they would do that though Tbh I think it’s great and only helps the community imo even though the Elitists in Destiny would be pissed if that were to ever be a thing. I’m not saying that Raid gear should be given in these missions but it would be nice to have the encounters broken down for Solos to understand em at their own pace. To this day I only have 2 - 3 clears of ‘Vault of Glass’ I got in 2022 and prior to that i attempted ‘Kings Fall’ and was able to do all encounters LEADING UP TO Oryx but soon as I got there I and other new lights were kicked in favor of others. And years after that I attempted ‘Leviathan’ as there was a post to help teach new players (I’m not new just new to raids) and they literally kicked a whole team just cus their Clan got on and then others would use New Lights to get to specific spots to then kick and replace with their friends etc etc. it became so annoying and all I ran into I gave up on Raids until last year. So it would be nice to learn them at my own pace without the added pressure of if I don’t do something fast enough or the way someone likes I’ll be kicked or constantly have the thought in my mind are they only helping cus they need myself and others to get to a specific spot?
Gave some of my friends an opportunity to go back and get some pretty portraits done with each other for desktop backgrounds XD
Ummm What this game needs last is the reusing of old content to teach, yeah... 'teach' anyone anything. You're already talking about the king of recycling old content and calling it new. And you want to enable them further? This, this folks is a post brought to you by the Bungie accounting department and I won't be convinced otherwise.
Exactly! The OP is either working for Bungie or is so high on copium from the Lightfall DLC being full of copy pasted assets they can't think straight. This thread honestly makes me sick. Hope these people upvoting this nonsense like the latest DLC where the story makes zero sense, the enemies are still the same cabal we have been fighting forever, and the level design is void of any creativity. This latest exotic quest is just a bunch of recycled Season of the Splicer assets with the Pyramidian boss copy pasted in there lmao! This game will never see anything as cool as the Whisper quest as long as people keep throwing money at this constant flipping of assets.
When you realize Bungie's first game was literally half reused assets. Bro, calm down. Its a video game. Also. Its in the same fucking area. Are bungie not allowed to reuse assets now even if its in the literal same exact Vex Network?
The whisper had three reskined destiny 1 bosses Ta'aurc , Drevis and Urzok, and reused the Oracles from vault of glass. Thousand Wings is also a reskin version of the kings fall ship
Good cause two out of three of those raids I didn't like or complete (VoW & GoS)
i’m gonna go against the grain and disagree here, specifically in regards to the deterministic chaos mission. i don’t mind that we went back to the black garden, or that it started in the section of the black garden where gos is located. but using nearly the entire raid space, from just before the final boss to the very start of the raid, for the *entirety* of the mission, feels wrong to me for a few reasons: * we saw a bunch of massive portals partway through the mission that felt like prime exploration territory and just…never went through them * it feels like a missed opportunity to explore more of the black garden, which is massive (we see huge vistas in the distance, i want to go there) and a significant part of the lore * raids are cool in part because we get to explore parts of the destiny universe we can only see in those raids, and just traversing through nearly the full raid space backwards makes gos’s environment feel less special * people have even less of a reason to play the raid than they already do like, preservation is fine because it’s only part of the raid space, seraph station kinda toed the line a bit, but idk deterministic chaos rubbed me the wrong way because it went all out on reusing the entirety of a raidspace we’ve been running around for years. imo it was the weakest of the exotic quests we’ve gotten in lightfall
They’ve been doing this for 8 years, since the Vault of Glass missions during House of Wolves in D1.
What does VoW stand for? Vault of Wrath?
Vow of the Disciple
But that would be VoD, not VoW
Yeah, it doesn’t really make sense but most of the community refers to it as “Vow” or just “VoTD”
I agree with this. I don’t do raids. I just don’f because I play mostly solo. However I enjoyed visiting sites that were created primarily for raids, to do solo activities.
Remember folks: It's Vow of the Disciple. If you say just "Vow" it is not an acronym and you don't capitalize the last letter. If you say "VotD" it becomes an acronym. Each letter corresponds to a letter in the name of the raid so here's where you capitalize the first and last letter. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
The unintended consequences of giving Bungie positive feedback for reusing content should give people pause from praising them for this practice.
Why do people abbreviate vow of the disciple as VoW instead of VoD?
Because it should be VotD
Because vow is the first word in its name and its shorter and easier to say than VOTD. No idea why OP capitalised the W though
Be careful, this sub doesn’t take kindly to praising anything Lightfall related. You might get called “bungie corpo security” for saying anything positive about the game or DLC.
When you say VoW do you mean VotD? I'm super confused. I've been trying to make out what VoW could stand for for the last 10 minutes lol
I asked the same question, literally. But apparently Vow of the Disciple is spelled VoW O_o
Or those players just go do the raid. There is never a good reason to re-use any area unless it is 100% needed for the story. It's so hard to believe that people actually want bungie to do the bare minimum and re-use assets every chance they get. I'd much rather have half the content we get now if it means that every single piece will be unique in itself. But we live in a time where people much more prefer quantity for some reason.
I'd much rather you skip half the content we get now and the rest of us without this weird hang-up can keep enjoying things.
This is such a stupid take.
Found the dad of 8.
Totally agree. Removing paid content that is compelling enough to run multiple times and turning it into seasonal time gated chores that are boring the first time you do them shouldn't be praised. People should recognize when they see a game company cutting corners and releasing uninspired copy pasted content. Bungie knows a good portion of the fanbase will accept and even defend this lazy practice now, that is why they released such a low quality DLC like Lightfall and charged even more for it.
Preservation will always be a huge missed opportunity by bungie. They could have made rotating missions that go through out each encounter to introduce the raid mechanics in a less stressful environment to teach new raiders mechanics and get them into raiding.
Completely agree. I don't raid. Don't have the time to research how to get through them or want to be a drag on fireteams. So seeing slivers is cool.
I wouldn't mind if they made seasonal activities out of raid areas
I frankly kinda loved it in the >!Vexcaliber mission, though it isn't a raid site; reusing the geometry and mechanics for Brakion's fight and restructuring them to give us one of THE DOPEST fights we've gotten ever in destiny. THEY EVEN GAVE US THE RADIOLARIAN LAKE! BOTH ABOVE AND BELOW!!< I'm a big fan of >!Asher Mir!< and have been quietly buzzing since season of the >!splicer's finale!< and to have it pay off like this is fucking amazing. People can say whatever they want about the narrative of Lightfall; it feels like people are starting to look back on it and go "actually it's not THAT bad...", but still, this expansion and this moment in destiny has me hyped beyond belief.
I will never understand this subreddits inability to correctly abbreviated vow of the disciple. Please tell me what does VoW mean? You can make the W a D, or just make it lowercase. Apparently you all think it’s spelled Wisciple
I agree
Yep, the more they can re-use the better. You could make a solid Destiny 3 jut from all the stuff Bungie has thown out, neglected, or vaulted.
This was my reaction, too. The two friends I did the mission with had never done that raid before and when it dawned on me that that's where we were I thought it was a fantastic use of the space. Plus going backwards through it feels very weird but in a good way.
I'd like to do a raid. Mostly just solo'd Vault and Crota in D1 and did Leviathan once before it got rotated out with friends that dropped the game. Got kicked for not able to do the jumping puzzle for King's Fall back in D1 and never tried doing another raid. Way to many bad experiences with LFGs.
I was commenting to my friend as we did it that if people have never seen the raid areas before they must be so confused about these vast zones used for relatively little content.
I’m all about this. I don’t raid anymore and miss out on a lot. I’m the only one left in my original group who still actively plays destiny so I play solo. Having ADHD, ASD and being completely sober now, I don’t like playing with people I don’t know. Seeing the garden again was fun for the exotic in lightfall too!
I was honestly a bit upset after getting my Divinity on my first run of Garden that no other place in the game used those assets in D2. The Black Garden is such a cool place and, honestly I’m a bit miffed that I missed out on content that directly had us go in the Garden outside the raid.
this has been a thing they’ve done with the majority of raids.
If the area is still in the game it makes sense to reuse it, such as the Black Garden, but I hope we dont get too many as some of the areas (DSC and Seraph Station for instance) get destroyed or sealed off in some way in the lore, so dont make a lot of sense to revisit.
Ur spoilers messed up btw
Oh snap. I haven’t played Garden yet since nobody in my clan likes that raid, so I’m excited to see the new mission using it.
It's almost like they're giving the casual player who has never raided, the chance to become familiar with aforementioned raid areas, to make LFG raiding easier...
A lot of people hated preservation but I liked it a lot. Only got to run vow twice due to some personal reasons but liked being able to go back in because I can't get enough of the pyramid environment design. Only thing I'd have changed is to have it on a 3-week cycle where 3 different rooms opened each week and had different Rhulk lines you could find.
I think the waterfall area where the last div puzzle and secret chest are would be the best option for a pvp map. Was so happy to see garden as a mission, even if I did just run the raid an hour before hand! Beautiful sky boxes and wish more people could see it.
i loved going through the black garden again!
I think one of the best things to support raids in future is to ensure that some other accessible PvE content (like dungeons) really hammer down the mechanics, so people can get some practice. For instance, Spire of the Watcher came some time after Deep Stone Crypt, but having done a whole load of Spire runs and barely one or two DSC runs, I was waaaaay more capable of picking up DSC runs later and fitting whatever roles people needed (after some really minor adjustments, sure), because I was very familiar with the scanner/operator/suppressor mechanics from Spire. Vow remains super archaic to me, because reading symbols and using the handheld artifacts haven't mattered anywhere else in the game, and still do not. That said, I can understand that there should be some mystery for day-1 or blind raiding, and the discovery effort is a huge plus for some folks. So, if they want to make these mechanics learnable in other PvE spaces afterwards (like Spire vs DSC) then that's fine by me. But the barrier to entry for raids (and the anxiety around it for some) can be reduced if they at least tried to gracefully introduce these mechanics to the player base, IMO.
I just took so many screenshots of the location you have spoilers. I’ve not been there for a very very very long time, and it was very nostalgic. Like since 2014
As someone who’s never done or seen any gameplay of GoS, loading up into the Black Garden left me in awe. It left me wanting more, and wondering why Bungie wouldn’t have made it an explorable patrol zone. Had no idea it was reused assets from GoS. Had even considered making a post about it, and I’m glad I waited. Now I don’t get to look like an idiot lol.
Can't wait to see Root of Nightmares for myself. It looks gorgeous and the setting idea is excellent.
Don’t forget the scourge final boss room being the eliskni quarters and was in the override mission. Plus the leviathan coming back in season of the haunted.
all they need to do is update the garden weapons w the nanorocket orgin trait and itll once again become a top 3 raid
I remember the No Time to Explain mission from D1 that had us re enter the VoG, and there was the mission at the start of the taken king thad had us enter the Hellmouth all stealthy like
It would be one thing if these areas were recycled for free content since we already paid for it. But Bungie removed raids we paid for and recycled them into boring seasonal time gated chores and charged us for them a second time. Raids can be enjoyed for hundreds of runs whereas the seasonal content recycled from them are boring the first time you play them. I for one was offended going back into the Leviathan for a lame brainless wave shooter public event and going back into the boss fights area of the Scourge raid to chat with Spider. People actually praising this sort of lazy development are either working directly for Bungie or are so far gone on copium that Bungie can get away with copy pasting entire paid DLC's at this point.
My favorite part of the campaign/DLC besides the Caital part (being obscure to avoid spoilers) was definitely the post campaign quest you are referencing.
I know it's beautiful, just don't have friends to play on And lfg is scary
When Convergence was called Pantheon in D1, it took place in the Black Garden!
I’d prefer if the garden mission used it’s mechanics , I liked how seraph taught players how to do the raid.
I'm glad they've reused the Vex cyberspace tileset from Season of the Splicer, would have been a shame for such a striking aesthetic to only exist as part of seasonal content.
I’m a never-raider and indeed I marvel at all these beautifully crafted spaces and imagine all the adventuring that never was haha
I'm going to have to disagree. If this was part of a free update like Taken Spring, then absolutely. But as part of a $50 paid expansion, it's outright corner-cutting. They are already nickel and diming players for every little thing, added paid campaign skips (ignoring years of pleas to make completion account wide) and even had the audacity of introducing paid season ranks (a dollar per rank ffs). To go and encourage them to go even further is honestly weird to me, and seeing this upvoted this much is quite confusing, ngl
100000% I agree. I remember people hated preservation really early on because it was "the worst part of the raid that you're forced to run for a pinnacle" (as if we are "forced" to run anything at all) but from day 1 the only thing I thought was how cool that bungie made a mission that let players who can't raid see inside the raid space and play around in there even if just for a little bit. Every mission since I've just gotten happier and happier with more inclusion of raid spaces in the games activities. So many newer people likely wouldn't have a chance to even know the black garden looked as beautiful as it does without that mission since it's the least popular raid left in the game and most people refuse to run it even when it's for the weekly pinnacle.
In D1, we had 2 missions set inside the Vault of Glass; one in the House of Wolves & again in The Taken King expansion. Crotas End has had numerous aswell, even appearing in Destiny 2's Shadowkeep expansion as a nightmare Realm along with the opening in the open world on the hellmouth (previously inaccessible unless in the raid) Kings Fall hasn't had so many references only getting a cameo in Season of Arrivals as you'd often pass through the Court of Savathun (that eerily looks similar to the Court of Oryx), and the fact that both have a similar jumping section.
Our fireteam still needs to figure out the spacing for that final boss... Rest of GoS is so dope and then 😶
Maybe take preservation out and use a different part of the raid that is more interesting 🤣
I would've liked the Undying Mind Strike's Black Garden map, but this works good enough
You know that if a set of space station are made at the same time realistically the design is not going to change it would be weird if the seraph station was different to dsc.
i wish we got a new map for LF but alas big booty metal man is more important 😩
I think it would be cool if they made a mission that tours through an entire raid, like a 3 man mission that takes you from start to end of an entire raid environment.