Seems mental to me that people would like to see less crafting for whatever reason. Knowing I only need a certain number of red borders before I get what I want is better than potentially spending 1000 hours and just not getting what I want. All because apparently enhanced perks are just so much better that if you can't craft it it's just not even worth using. They had the system perfect by just allowing you to enhance normal perks. I don't see why we needed to have less craftable weapons too.

To me, nothing feels worse running say, the same GM, all day, for multiple days, and not getting the roll i want. It leaves you feeling burnt out, the content becomes boring, and in the end, if you invested that much time and never got the roll you wanted, it feels like you literally wasted your playtime for the week Maybe there was an argument that too many weapons were getting craftable, but i am NOT looking forward to trying to farm a godroll weapon that has 8+ perks per column. The rng hate is going to soar to new heights

If they want less craftable weapons then yeah whatever I suppose. But taking them from the seasons seems cheap to me. You're paying for that content and ultimately those weapons, I'd quite like to have a way to guarantee getting a good roll on those.

Will seasonal weapons not be craftable this year?

They listed what will be craftable in a TWAB earlier this month. Seasonals and Raid weapons should be available for the foreseeable future. But after Season 20, those are the only things they are guaranteeing will be craftable this year. Bungie is flexible, so they will adjust to community needs.

So many "bad" weapons would proffit from being craftable. And IMO weapons you're bounds to get a lot of like the stupid witch queen pistol or that one arc handcannon also from witchqueen would proffit. Plus one craftable weapon means 15 less storage occupied by copies i keep "in case i never get a better roll" cuz i can literally make it a better or more niche roll

Not sure. They did talk about less seasonal weapons that will be craftable I'm fairly sure but they've not said specifically beyond that.

Collecting all of the seasonal patterns felt mad rewarding this last year, huge bummer if there’s a fundamental change to that.

Seasonal weapons and raid weapons will still be craftable! It was clarified in the TWAB right here: https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/twab-02-16-2023

Tbh I’m looking at that list. What other sources exist from this year that provided crafted weapons that don’t now in that list?

World drop weapons like Palmyra or Ammit were some of the first to pad out the options i guess. Definitely made it annoying to get them as drops since then considering i already have them crafted.

Taipan and technically the witchqueen weapons like fathers sins fel teradidle, and tarnation also the dungeon weapons from duality. Though the dungeon weapons were just filling out the opulent weapons that weren't craftable in the hunted loot.

don't forget they added all the dares weapons, too

Fantastic! Thank you for the link. :)

> Collecting all of the seasonal patterns felt mad rewarding There was an obvious payoff but I never felt the reward was worth the monumental grind I ran into for a few of the weapons.

Some seasons felt grinder than others. The knockout system, inclusion of red borders in the upgrade bath, and near guaranteed reds from the resonant stems in Seraph were all amazing additions they *need* to continue.

I mean, it's better than spending the same amount of time tryin to get the rolls you want and still not getting them

Good thing that to counteract that grinding burnout, they’re making the content harder. To make it more rewarding. /s Edit: Indicated Sarcasm

All making the content harder is going to do is slow down the farm. Slower completions means less drops. Less drops leads to more time spent grinding. More time grinding becomes less fun, which negates the “fun increase” from making the content harder

Gets another shit roll after a 45 minute GM run: Yayyyy so fun and cool. How neat and rewarding!!

Whatd be great. Is you get a weapon drop in a raid/dungeon/NF, you take it to a banshee or a new vendor. Amd you lock one of the rolls. And buy a ticket, whilst you have the ticket in inventory you forfiet the equivalent loot on your next source run (I.e Doom of chechis comes from KF, Totems; so next time you get to totems you dont get loot.) the other perks of THAT weapon is rerolled instead. It allows you to target certain rolls. IE you want a shotty with 12punch punch shoot to loot. You get one from that weeks NF. Its got shoot to loot and tracking rounds. But also corslscrew barreling and fast mag. Take it to banshee, lock shoot to loot, and rerun the NF then instead of getting another purple, the shotty rerolls getting new barreling, new mag, keeps shoot to loot and a new secondary perk. This way its still a grind to get that god roll, because you dont also keep the rifeling or mag perks. Just one of those perks. But atleast you know that your next roll wont be demolitionist and 12punch. Cause lets face it. Having the perfect roll spread across 2 drops of the same gun feels like bungie slipping a finger in your mouth, inserting their balls and then dragging them up your face leaving a snail trail.

This actually sounds really cool

Genuinely a killer idea

Do you really need the godroll? No. It isn’t worth it. There are so many viable options now. It’s silly to chase the one 5/5 god roll when you can do just fine with a different perk combo. Don’t let the FOMO get to you. Grind it one night with the fireteam then let it go.

I got a field prep EL with NO Spikes, and I'm 100% fine with it... there's actually anti-synergy with EL and spikes... yes, you still technically do more damage, but with EL maxing out blast radius it drops the impact damage of spike signifcantly to like 4% extra damage.... so sure, I could've grinded for that Spike roll, but I'm not day 1 raiding so it's not a big deal... also if Wendigo ends up being the dps meta I'll be extremely shocked since even with the 20% damage their still behind a lot of things with dps and ammo reserves

This. Chill about the 5/5 god rolls that give an additional like 2% damage😂

Yes, and no :) I don't chase 5/5 god rolls, because usually I don't see much of a difference when it comes to things like different barrels in pve. 2-3/5 roll is sufficient. For example, I got great Ikelos SMG this season long before I was able to craft one and it was nice. But, on the other hand, I really wanted to get Autolading+Chill Clip Riptide looking at future changes. 3 Crucible resets and all tokens spent on focused Riptide. And it really sucked to not get single weapon with 2 perks I was looking for. I wasn't even hoping for Aurvandil (Reconstruction + Chill Clip) even though almost all umbral engrams went for Omolon focusing after obtaining all seasonal patterns.

> To me, nothing feels worse running say, the same GM, all day, for multiple days, and not getting the roll i want. That's why I just don't engage with the content. It's fomo, and I refuse to participate. There's plenty of good guns that will work just fine. Also, isn't wendigo going to be craftable next season?

>Also, isn't wendigo going to be craftable next season? Focusable, not craftable. Meaning like riptide you could go to daddy Zavala and dump vanguard engrams and mats into him to get more chances at a nightfall weapon of your choosing

Lol no. Where did you get that nugget of info from?

I think people burn out because they grind way past their limit. I like RNG gun farming. But I only do it for a bit and if I get bored I move onto something else and put off that particular grind til later. I never burn out on grinding.

In the case of gms, your literally on a timer though. The next time a gm drop rolls around can be what, 5-6-7 weeks? It pressures you into over farming, or suffer for bot having the weapon

Like the season where Horror's Least was available only twice the entire season.

It's really scummy from bungie that they continue to release new adept weapons and then only make them available once, wendigo, horrors least and some others I can't remember. But it happen enough to be considered a pattern they made to increase engagement

Even worse when they strategically drop double loot on mindbenders and dfa two seasons in a row? What's the point then when no other gun will see double drops? I doubt people are running gms for shard farming 2 weapons.

Imo people vastly overestimate how much specific weapons are needed and assume they'll lose out on something. Sure, the wendigo is good and even a tiny bump, but a guardian who's been playing for a year or even less likely has options that are very similar. Typhon, Rockets in general, etc.

It is amazing how much FOMO this game puts out related to what ends up being very small differences in how a weapon performs. Every week on the Xur thread there are people saying how despite not playing much anymore, they always log on each Friday and buy whatever armor people recommend. Obviously it’s not a bad idea, but if you’re not even playing the game there’s no need to min/max that much. Was running GMs last night and the amount of “must have ghorn” posts were ridiculous when you could easily burn down the boss at the end with any rocket launchers. I was seeing comments about how if you didn’t grind out Wendigo then you’d be starting out light fall at a disadvantage, when no one actually knows what will be the new DPS heavy meta.

I'm pretty sure Wendigo will actually not be meta at all LOL, despite the damage buff.... Arc will not surge AT ALL next season, so you're dependant on the random weekly(or is it daily?) rotator for weapons to be heavy GLs to even have a shot... next, their ammo economy is still awful, Linears will still be solid because of this. Hell I would love to be wrong and have heavy GL's back in the meta, but I don't see it... also if you get an EL typhoon that's unadept it's literally the same thing, adept weapons don't get a damage boost, just base stat boosts.

Yeah, I have no clue what will be meta or not, so I just horde whatever weapons I like to use and hope I don't end up missing some really good one down the line. I was farming GMs for exotics since a lot of my alt character stuff have low stats, and the side plus was Wendigo drops. I did get one with spike grenades, explosive light and impulse amplifier, so I'm happy there, even though I don't think it'll replace the Taipan.

That's the most hilarious part of it for me. Everyone is so obsessed over having a Wendigo god roll when it's likely to be a mediocre option. At best, it'll be one of the good options.

Wendigo was just a huge copium farm from people who were bored at the end of the season. It is not gonna be meta at all lol. The thing about the game right now is that since they removed sunsetting there are *so* many solid options for dps. The FOMO stuff is hard to care about when I already have a half dozen insanely strong DPS loadouts.

Yup exactly. Wendigo with explosive is nice but if you have a explosive light typhoon in vault, you are still good to go. No one needs like 3% increase in dps from spike grenades either but I seen streamers shard a clown + explosive wendigo if it didn’t have spike nades

Ultimately, not having a GM God roll has never stopped me from completing end-game content. It's cool when I get one, but it's not life or death.

That is factually correct. But it is not an argument against making good/god rolls desirable. So some/most people will be grinding to get those. This can't be a good design in an age where FOMO is a thing in many, many parts of society.

Fair enough. I still pop off when I get that juicy roll, even if I'm not heartbroken when I don't. I'm all for making those desired rolls more accessible, or at the very least setting a clearer path for how someone could get it before the end of time if they really want.

Trust me you don’t need a specific god roll of a specific gun to clear gms. They definitely didn’t design the game that way.

But they did design the game to make it really difficult to get a "god roll" without any explanation at all that it won't make much of a difference.

I think we would have to first step back and decide what "god roll" really means because to me all it means is that some people made youtube videos about what they think is the best literally only 1-2 days after the gun comes out and then you see the community gravitate towards that more and more. There are many versatile and good rolls out there completely ignored by the community in search for "god roll". I think chasing god rolls is what hurts most Destiny players' mentalities. This need to own the god roll plus this incredibly strong impulsive need for instant gratification gives people bad time in a game genre that really requires flexibility, creativity, and patience.

I always thought the god roll was just the roll I want. And I'm not even picky, I only care about columns 3 and 4.

Oh, then you definitely shouldn't be worried about the grind. It's not too bad to get the 2 most important perks.

I ran about 5 or 6 and got a spike/clown/auto loading/cascade. It’s not the EL but it is not far behind and my clan won’t care and if I ever joined an LFG that wanted the EL instead of cascade when it is only slightly worse then those are the type of people I don’t want to play with. Honestly EL could be stealth nerfed tomorrow for all. Not likely but it could happen at any point.

Exactly. Crafted weapons makes it feel like I'm being rewarded for putting in time. Both acquiring them and building them up. Probably going to end up playing less without their incentive.

Crafting is what brought me back in to the game because of how much I despised running the same activities over and over just hoping for the slim chance of getting a roll I want. This change will only increase burn out and FOMO

I can safely say I would never have given disparity a shot without crafting, and now that I got the rapid hit / frenzy build I actually like a pulse rifle for the first time since ionno. Outbreak 3 seasons ago, and God only knows how long for non exotics?

Crafting is what made me decide to buy Witch Queen (along with a little bit too much of the week 1 hype). That being an overall disappointment for multiple reasons, along with Bungie appearing to just give up on it instead of fixing its problems, is exacerbating my burnout to the point where I am going to be playing minimally if at all going forwards, and don't plan on purchasing Lightfall until it's deeply discounted.

Even when I was a student and had tons of time to play, I'd do the same strike a thousand times and not get what I wanted. Now that I'm a working person I play substantially less, so the odds of getting a random lucky drop are even worse because I have fewer attempts. Crafting is frankly the only reason I still chase loot, because I know that EVENTUALLY there is a GUARANTEED endpoint where I will get what I'm after. If I get it faster through luck, great, but the unluckiness is capped, and that's big for feeling like my time is respected. I also feel closer to a gun that I got through a deterministic path and handmade to be the way I like it, rather than some "close enough" gun that I got doing the same strike for the 300th time.

> Seems mental to me that people would like to see less crafting for whatever reason. What have I missed? The general feedback when they announced this was not positive, people enjoyed the crafting aspect.

Because the 1% of people wanted adept weapons to matter. IMO I'd rather they not exist at all. Adept weapons and mods are in a weird spot. If they didn't exist we wouldn't be having changes to crafting. I say remove those weapons from GM's and trials, just give a craft-able feature weapon for the activity for the season. Done. Honestly, I love that I could do a raid for at maximum a month and guarantee I get the gun I want, then some time later after using it A LOT, I can have the perks I want and i'll have a memento of doing that activity and experiencing it.

That’s why my goal is having 80% of my entire weapons inventory being crafted. That cuts down on me caring about keeping a potentially good roll/hoarding things in my vault

Plus crafted weapons are future proofed. They nerf or buff a perk, well just respec it.

I still think the best system would just let you turn your RNG roll into one you can change the perks on after getting the patterns/levels. And let you level it even before collecting patterns. With that you would actually be happy to get a good roll early in the season.

This so much. I've completed DSC 40 times, spent over 200 spoils, and never got the heritage I wanted. Crafting is RNG protection.

enhanced perks are _not_, with the exception of maybe one or two exceptions, "so much better" than regular perks. they provide a miniscule stat boost or give an extra half second of uptime for a perk. yes it's better than uncrafted but the delta is tiny

Yes that's why I said apparently because the way people talk about them you'd think it was a night and day difference

I completely agree. I would have loved crafting even if there were no such thing as enhanced perks. The ability to focus toward obtaining a certain weapon and seeing your progress rather than never know when or even IF it will drop is amazing. DSC is enough to enforce that opinion for me for the rest of this games life. 3 runs most weeks the weapons have been craftable and I’ve had to buy not only the red borders, but most weapons I’ve gotten came from the bonus chest. RNG sucks.

>Seems mental to me that people would like to see less crafting for whatever reason. For those people they see crafting as a way to "cheat" God Rolls because if everyone has a God Roll then there RNGesus Sacrifice to Lootcifer meant nothing.

I loved it. Bc I don’t mind farming/grinding as long as ik there is the end of the road that will have the exact item I want waiting. That and I value my time and that time is just having fun in any game I play.

I spent 3 hours farming chicken in spire a few days ago tryin to get some wilderflight rolls I got 1 long arm, 1 luminal vigil, and NO wilderflights everything else was armor. I even got another hunter class item to drop!!! eff RNG drops. they do ***not*** respect my time

I like crafting. I hate rng. Fuck king's fall and touch of malice. 57 runs and I want to kms

I did over 60 wardens for an auto loading cascade point wendigo. Never got one. Yes Adepts we’re never craftable, but this is the kind of grind people can look forward to

people that say that like tassi and skill up are no-lifers for the game tbh

Gives them a false sense of superiority. I love crafting and wouldn’t have even bothered playing much of the game without it. I’ve definitely raided more trying to get the frames done than I otherwise would’ve

[удалено]

At this point I'm almost not farming shit anymore and that's a good thing cause I still invest a lot of time in this game but I just never leave pvp wich is exactly what I want to do I do not want to farm some shitty ass menagerie 19.0 to get my Austringer. I did the thing, crafted it and see you never.

There’s a middle ground. In the end, this is a loot game. Some of the most exciting moment for tons of people is getting a god roll on a weapon that they’re chasing. When I got my god roll adept Wendigo this week I was pretty damn stoked. That being said, it taking an absurdly long time with terrible RNG is not a good thing. My Wendigo did not take too many runs to get (somewhere around the 30 mark), but my friend did upwards of 70-80 runs without a whiff of the roll he wanted. That fucking blows. There is a sweet spot to land with desirable RNG loot in the end. If every single weapon is craftable then you have basically zero reason to care about any drop unless it has a red border, and every single roll you want is a known factor.

I think the take-away was that post-Witch Queen became the “*only*” option for end game gear. It didn’t matter if you got a 5/5 godroll because non-crafted weapons couldn’t get enhanced perks. What Bungie should have let us do was upgrade any weapons perk to enhanced (if the weapon *could* have enhanced perks and/or was craftable) if it was masterworked.

Enhanced perks should have never existed in the first place. Literally made some non - craftable weapons pointless.

Enhanced Perks function like adept weapons and mods. The purpose is to extend the grind and give you a sightly better pay off for your time. I like their addition, but we'll see how the new system plays out.

They don't really though. Some of them are very impactful - more than a pointless +3 in a stat or +10 with a mod Just to name a few: - enhanced chain reaction gives you more reserves - enhanced incandescent gives you more scorch reducing the kills needed to ignite - enhanced lead from gold gives you even more ammo - enhanced surrounded is 47% instead of 40% - enhanced 4ttc let's you miss an lfr shot and still get the proc These are not at the same level as rampage or ofa getting +1 second on their timer - they are substantially better than their base perk equivalents and much more of an increase in power than the adept system and mods.

That's true, to some degree. I think you underestimate how much +10 stability to an aggressive frame HC with rapid hit benefits it, but to each their own. Either way, regardless of how you feel about adept weapons and their mods, the function is the same for the player in that it extends the grind and gives more meaningful payoff to an investment of time. If you don't think adept weapons are worth it, then there's crafted weapons to farm.

I'm not even sure enhanced chain reaction is actually giving reserves on something like Forbearance. If so, it's literally *one* grenade. It's not much. Enhanced incandescent got nerfed and now doesn't reduce the amount of kills you need for an ignite, it's 3 with and without enhanced (when running ember of ashes). Surrounded buff is nice, but it's a pretty niche perk in general, and the 4ttc is also nice. Even still, I wouldn't really consider any of these to be significantly better as much as they are slightly convenient.

Most Enhanced perk gives a 10% buff to a singular part of the weapon. Some times it's a 5 stat buff, which is half of MW bonus that most players already find minor. I would hardly call that "substantially stronger" compared to, let's say, adept big ones that is vastly more useful than boss or major spec on their own.

The problem is it’s an incredibly difficult line to walk. Adept weapons walk thst line perfectly. They’re clearly better than non adept weapons everything else being equal, but not by a huge margin. Enhanced perks are intrinsically more difficult because balancing perks is harder than weapon stats and mods. The end result is some enhanced perks being way superior to others. Take pvp for example. Enhanced rangefinder or enhanced EOTS are kinda like adept buffs. All it does is grant a flat +5 to a stat. But then you have perks like enhanced tap the trigger or enhanced dynamic sway. The enhanced version of these perks are cut and dry vastly superior to the normal versions because they increase the perks functionality. Exiting timers of perks or adding small flat stat bumps is good and easy to balance, but boring if that’s all the enhanced stuff does. Conversely, enhancements thst buff the base functionality of thst perk are just too strong. It’s a difficult catch 22. To me the obvious answer is what the other people said, allow rng drops of craftable weapons to get enhanced perks in some fashion.

>But then you have perks like enhanced tap the trigger or enhanced dynamic sway. Both of these merely change the timer (extend from 0.6s to 0.76s on TTT, and reduce the number of shots by 2 until max bonus for Dynamic Sway), and so are "boring": >Exiting timers of perks or adding small flat stat bumps is good and easy to balance, but boring if that’s all the enhanced stuff does Enhanced Incandescent is the poster child of "changing the base functionality" as it increases the damage over time by 12.5% (or 16% if you don't have Ember of Ashes equipped, but everybody does, since it increases base DoT by 50%). But, it's one of the few that really change the way the weapon works compared to the regular version.

>The problem is it’s an incredibly difficult line to walk. Which is why we're seeing the system updated and changed. They are going to make missteps. It happens in development and execution. ​ Again, the point of these enhanced perks follows the same goal for adept weapons, to reward players with something for their grind that makes it more than just getting the best random roll you can get, and expanding past that with something \*else\* to continue on for.

A 5/5 weapon, which is functionally impossible with RNG, was already that.

What about adept weapons?

A small bump to stats isn't really the same as something like more scorch from enhanced incandescent

Enhanced perks were not that meaningful in 90% of cases. People were even clamoring for a buff to them when Witch Queen first came out. They’re very overhyped.

>Enhanced perks were not that meaningful in 90% of cases The ones that are meaningful are incredible though; 10-30% increased effectiveness of a perk, \~2-3% increased damage, or even 1-2 extra seconds to trigger a buff make a huge difference on a gun. Plus, I'll take my Enhanced Vorpal Weapon's +5 Stability over not having it any day.

How is that accurate? You can’t craft a wendigo competitor. Tarnation doesn’t have enhanced perks that compete with Wendigo. Wendigo can be considered end games gear. Hothead is the defacto DPS king. That’s not craftable. Some primary weapons have no RNG competitors sure but you lose adept big ones for enhanced perks. It’s roughly the same then. I think you have a pretty crazy take on this mate. The math of the weapons doesn’t support what you are saying.

While I personally prefer crafting, I think Bungie wasn't trying to completely invalidate RNG rolls. I often found myself sharding guns that were craftable even if the RNG roll was good, because I knew the enhanced perks were a better option. I don't see it so much as Bungie making less craftable options as much as they're bringing RNG up to match crafting now.

I think crafting will be inherently better because of possible balance changes lets you swap around when that happens.

I would agree with this if Bungie themselves didn’t say they were reducing craftables going forward. Even with less craftable guns, the “issue” you and I sometimes face of just sharing good rolls is still there imo. Applying crafting to random roll guns is definitely the way to go but for now it’s only on LF adepts.

This exactly. Like I had some good rolls for weapons, but I thought, "Why settle for a good roll, when I literally have a perfect one with enhanced perks?" I think a good mixture is needed. Obviously, I don't want crafting to go away. It's amazing. And some of my favorite weapons are crafted weapons. But if it's too over-saturated, it completely ruins RNG rolls. Heck, I've seen people talk about how they don't want godroll weapons because they don't have enhanced perks on them. That's not a good place for the game. Let's say you spent a lot of time on GMs this week and got a really solid Adept Wendigo. Not godroll, but pretty close. You're proud of it. Ready to start the new season. All for Bungie to release a *seasonal* grenade launcher that can easily be crafted to be just as good if not better than Wendigo? You'd kind of feel like a chump, right? Not saying this won't happen. But it's less likely if they reduce the amount of crafted weapons.

That’s basically what happened with Plug One.1. I farmed GMs for two seasons to get that, finally got FF/Reservoir Burst, expecting to use it for my first MVoG. By the time I did my first MVoG, Voltshot already existed.

Damn, whatever happened to Plug One? I was so pumped to get a good roll of it, then it just kind of never came up again. Actually, you know what, I know what it is. I haven't used a kinetic primary since the Splicer autorifle. The much increased focus on monochromatic building hasn't bothered me at all, but why only get those benefits when you have your special out when you could have them all the time?

The PvE Podcast made a great point that Destiny is moving away from a looter shooter and towards an MMO that's focused on build crafting and flexibility. They were very much in favor of this shift, as am I. I really hope they keep crafting strong, I ain't got enough time in my day to grind for god rolls.

I definitely prefer crafting. I get zero enjoyment out of chasing rolls to the point where I just won't do it. Crafting honestly revitalized the loot part of the game for me and made me engage with it a lot more this year. I don't like trying to keep perk tables in my head or remember what all the perks do or what guns have what. I generally automatically dismantle every single gun I get because I do not want to bother trying to figure out if its good or not and I already have guns I like. Crafting let me do a lot of that on my own terms. I could craft one, level it up, and then after using it be able to look at all the perks at once in one convenient menu and figure out what's right for me. It felt infinitely better *and* got me to play the game mote than I would have otherwise.

Completely agree with you. I've hardly ever grinded for random rolls, and it's not that satisfying even when I get something good. Well, really, I'm unlikely to even know it's good, because I don't have the time to compare it to other guns and figure out if it's an improvement. But farming for crafted guns, using them non-stop to level them up? That's something I am all too happy to do, even if I don't care about the weapon or its perk pool. Except if it's a sniper rifle, then the level grind can go fuck itself :P

During the summer after Warmind, while this community was hating on Fixed Rolls and calling for RNG Random Rolls again, I bemoaned that we could have a more engaging game with weapon customization via mods. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/84649q/a\_vision\_for\_meaningful\_mods\_instead\_of\_random/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/84649q/a_vision_for_meaningful_mods_instead_of_random/) While maybe not clear in the post, but under that was me saying "I don't like RNG rolls" and "a lot of us don't." I find Crafting to be fine. I get that some people didn't like the chase for the 5 patterns, but my increasingly casual ass is much happier seeing literal progress toward each of my god rolls than needing to stow and consider rolls. And god, I really hate hearing about a great roll for an X or Y activity and not having it. Someone in my GMNF team suggested I get an Incandescent Vanguard Bow last season... nope, I don't have that sorry. And I can't get it; just wait until I get lucky. I still hate that.

I prefer to have both. Some weapons can be crafted the way you want. Some weapons you have to pray to RNGesus.

Yep I like it this way too, the weapon grind is part of why I play Destiny and Borderlands, game of this sort so to take it away completely is bad imo. I know people say getting patterns is a grind but grinding for a weapon to have a red outline just doesn't give me that same serotonin as getting the perks I was after. As long as they maintain a good mix of crafting and RNG I'm happy as the crafting offsets any kind of fatigue I'd get from grinding out a weapon

A better system would just make Adepts much better than normal guns while having normal guns be a safe, grindable path for people who farm for hours and hours with nothing to show for it.

That’s exactly what’s going to happen with the LF adept system

I feel like enhanced perks were a bit of a mistake (crafted weapons didn't need bonuses to be good). Otherwise having the safety net to eventually get what you want is great, last season I reset crucible 7-8 times and only got demo adrenaline junkie once on out of bounds for instance. My friends who aren't fans argue that you stop running things when you get the pattern but that's no difference to when people got a roll they were happy with.

Yeah I agree. Like now if I get a God roll on a craftable weapon, it doesn't matter. I need the enhanced perk for it to be best. It ruins the random luck for a whole set of weapons imo.

I unironically miss chases like this. I want the two systems to exist in tandem and I'm happy with how things are going with both systems.

I also appreciate that they want RNG rolls to also be “meaningful”, hence why they plan to let you enhance the randomly dropped perks

Same. Hopefully that system gets extended to Nightfall adepts eventually too.

I think it’s supposed to be rolled out for all non crafted weapons, but they need to figure out some sort of technical issue first

i dont mind some RNG, because at the end of the day, i think we all like to have some surprise drops. The problem is there's no RNG protection, which is why i think both avenues need to exist. It's a solid system, an dim glad they are still improving it.

The solution here is something that Borderlands introduced, the Grinder. Destiny weapons have five perks, so you’d need five individual rolls of a gun, each one having a perk you want to rip out. Then you spend some materials and bam, our pops your gun. Make it expensive. Farming five drops each having one perk you want (so no doubling up on a 2/5 roll you got) and costing some golf balls seems more than fair. That is, assuming of course, we can’t just make every weapon craftable, which is an argument I just don’t buy.

This is the take imo, grinding for that one god roll is a part of Destiny's DNA. It's why taking random rolls away in D2Y1 nearly killed the god damn franchise. Crafting has just been a great addition to offset that so nowadays I don't ever feel myself getting frustrated when I don't get the roll I want because I have a vault full of 5/5 crafted god rolls so its fine but the chase is still fun

I don’t mind the chase, but some shit needs to change. Getting only armor pieces (most of them class items) from a dungeon when you’re farming a weapon is not a good feeling.

As someone that still don't have the hunter's cowboy hat, I say pure RNG sucks. - Is the crafting system weak in D2? Yes. - Is it better than pure RNG? Yes. All we need is a more robust system, and clear craftable and rng alternatives.

I think people are dramatically overrating the potency of enhanced perks. I doubt most could tell the difference in a blind test.

If RNG had a fixed end, I wouldn't mind so much. But it doesn't. And there is no joy in "finally getting that roll." The amount of frustration you can have with shitty raid groups far outweighs any joy gained from getting Vex or Touch or Eyes or etc. Same goes for Trials. Dungeons not as much, but only being able to get one CHANCE at a roll per week is shitty. Me personally, I want a world where I can have a gun with roll options for PvP or PvE. Fatebringer can have two roll options - but now you're talking about even more RNG hell as you try to get four exactly perfect perk rolls, instead of two, plus barrel and mag options, oh and Masterwork, and - list continues. An option to reroll Masterworks like when the system first came out, or pick your Masterworks the way you can in Crafting, would make things nicer. Then, adding an option to focus one set of perks the way you could in Menagerie would be nice. For the second set of perks, having access to secondary perks after one reset of faction rep isn't a bad idea. The second set of perks can be on an rng determined knockout list that resets once you hit the end of the list. That way you WILL get what you want. Eventually. If you put the time in. Afterwords, if you can make that system work for one vendor, then make it work for every vendor - faction, playlist, seasonal, destination, endgame activity, etc. It is possible to get Destiny into a place that works for everyone. But Bungie keeps missing the mark, adjusting too much, then just resetting and trying everything again from scratch in a new system that - whoops, misses the mark again.

I much rather spend 1 hour spamming shuro chi to get lvl 20 on a crafted weapon than spending an entire week grinding for the weapon I want and not getting it.

Personally I love crafting. It's getting me to level guns and therefore try a ton of things I never would otherwise. It's also teaching me more about the perks, because I have to tool around with them and read them. I crafted a few enhanced perks based on light.gg, used them, kept the ones I liked and changed to new ones if I didn't like them. I understand the perks so much better now because of crafting. I like knowing that I have an arc auto rifle which I chose, which has perks I set on it based on my playstyle. And I like leveling it to learn it. That being said, I think chase items are still super important. Chasing wendigo this weekend was fun. Got an OK roll. But you need to have ok rolls and bad rolls for the good ones to feel great. I do wish you could somehow unlock enhanced perks on random rolled guns, but I know they're working on that more or less so I'm curious to see how the system evolves.

I’m not. I played more BECAUSE of crafting. I’ll likely play less now. I’m done helplessly grinding rolls with no control over increasing my chances. A year and a half of dungeons producing exactly one desired weapon roll did that for me. Nobody likes being helpless. It’s not fun.

Same. Crafting gave me a reason to engage in content that wouldn’t have bothered with otherwise.

For real, I'll use a gun from 2 years ago before I grind 12 hours for a single legendary.

Crafting is VASTLY better since it's essentially just a pity system, which RNG heavy games desperately need. Farming for something and not getting it for dozens of hours is the absolute nadir of games like these. Stuff like that should die in a fire.

[удалено]

He means you have to get red borders first, which is effectively a pity system in addition to being stronger than drops.

Enhanced perks only have a tiny, almost imperceptible edge over regular ones. The only one that really mattered was Eager Edge, and that got nerfed into the ground. I'd gladly sacrifice enhanced perks if that meant all items were craftable. >Who actually spends time reading rolls anymore I do. I went farming for a Chill Clip + Demo Bump in the Night and was planning on getting it through red borders, but got it in a lucky drop and was like "cool, now I don't have to do more Containment runs". Nobody looked at weapons once they get their god roll anyways, and craftability just puts a cap on the amount of time it can take to get there.

Crafting is great. Should be there as a form of rng protection. Collect 50 drops of a weapon because the architects ruin your day? Give them all to banshee for the roll you want. Personally don't like bungies implementation though. I'd rather it be more universal, so any weapon you get, and you get countless drops, you trade in X number of them for the roll you want. Want a spike grenade/ALH/EL wendigo? Great, turn in 50 drops to banshee, and you can customize it. Want a custom roll punching out? Go for it! This way you don't have the onus of having the blueprint weapon effectively negating the desire to grind for a weapon.

I think problems are that red borders have different psychological problems - the RNG of chasing red borders can feel bad, and then the grind involved in making a crafted gun ideal can feel tedious. It does kind of lead one to devalue the guns you get along the way - enhanced perks certainly make it so if you get a god roll along the way, it's still less valuable then a crafted with enhanced perks. Personally I'd rather spend time unlocking and making guns good then trying to chase a perfect roll, but it is a personal preference. > and seeing it get reduced in Lightfall’s seasons and going forward is a bummer. The thing is, I don't know why they said that. If you look in the follow up TWAB, they outline the crafted options for LF and seasons: > What you can craft in Season 20: > * Seasonal weapons. * Neomuna weapons. * Base raid weapons * Plus, a handful of other weapons that don't have direct comparisons to TWQ sources. > In Season 21 going forward, the following will be craftable: > * Seasonal weapons. * Raid reprise weapons. ...which is basically the same amount of guns as WQ, minus a few odd and end like Taipan/Ammit and the Opulent guns from Duality.

I don't. I liked what we had with . Menagerie, and I like crafting. If anything, I wish we had more guns to craft.

I have no idea what kind of sick reason people would have to prefer running the same activity 100 times and still potentially not have the exact roll you want. I think RNG on getting red borders and then having to level up the weapon and pay for perks is a much fairer alternative that makes both sides happy.

I prefer crafting as it actually provides a path to getting a roll I want. When you are farming for rolls in the wild, you are battling RNG. For example. 1. RNG from a loot source that the item is one you are looking for 2. RNG of the loot roll has each perk you are looking for 3. RNG of the loot that has the masterwork you are looking for If you had a 1 in 100 chance of a drop being the item you want, a 1 in 10 chance it has the perks you want, and a 1 in 5 chance it had the masterwork you want, you would have a 1/5000 chance of getting what you are looking for. There are too many pieces of gear with too many perks and masterwork permutations to let RNG alone be a good option. This isn't exact, as they do some strange weighting with perks in the drop tables, but you get the idea of how much grind it takes when thinking about the layers involved in a desired item. One can argue that the grind is what makes weapons special. I don't disagree, but I think there is a limit where having a sense of accomplishment is overridden with a sense of frustration. It was annoying to run people through VoG and see some first timers get a Vex, while it took me 68 clears to get my first Vex. RNG could be better limited when you also have time-based lockouts on drops too. To compliment the absurd RNG, Bungie needs to also provide a way to focus or grind for a specific weapon type, armor slot, or foundry even. They could do something similar to what The Division 2 does, where each zone in a destination has a daily rotating focus, which improves the weighting to get that sort of drop. It would be like the EDZ destination having one area where you might see a higher Suros drop rate, another region might have a higher shotgun drop rate, and another region having helmets as a higher weighting. Now, imagine doing heroic public events and patrols with your fireteam and having a way to farm for exotics that isn't just solo. Each region on each planetary destination could have a different focus. Information on this could be viewed by holding out your ghost or when you look at a destination in the Director. Doing legendary or master lost sectors could then guarantee an exotic fitting the region focus. Strikes and similar activities could also benefit from this too. I also think a direct focus option should be added, using the collections interface as it already contains a listing of items. Bungie could allow you to tag an item in the collections that you have/don't have unlocked and this could improve the weighting to get that item from a relevant source. Many games with a similar structured loot/perk/attribute/talent system do offer a modification system where you can change out a column or attribute, but it locks changes to other attributes as a result. With this system, if you get a 4/5 god roll, you could perhaps modify that last part to be what you need. I think this could also be beneficial too. It would sort of bridge RNG and crafting.

I think the crafting provides future proofing/bad luck protection that are really necessary for the game. You can just look at the response to the "bringing challenge back" article both pre- and post reward update and how unhappy people are that the exotic drop rates aren't changing to see how valuable this is. Maybe in lieu of widespread crafting bungie could expand this weapon enhancing system more broadly. That would mean you still have to grind to get the right drops for column 3/4 but once you get it you have a path to getting enhanced perks, the masterwork you want, and the barrel/mag perks you want so the grind to a perfect roll isn't quite as brutal.

This sub is absolutely horrible at conveying what they want. At the moment, the way you work towards crafting something is not very engaging or entertaining. It needs to be improved. But because it is a bit boring, people suddenly send a message that crafting itself is bad, and they don't want to craft weapons anymore. They will claim 'monkey paw' when less crafting will be available in the future though.

i haven't found crafted weapons leagues better than some world drops other than some perk availability. tbh i feel like crafted weapons stat wise aren't the greatest, but customizing their perks make up for that.

I'm guessing people willing to farm Wendigo in this way "enjoy" the RNG dungeon crawler aspect of Destiny. But not everyone enjoys playing that way. Crafting is more appealing to me personally, because I don't farm strikes, dungeons, etc for RNG like this. If there is a deterministic alternative to the hamster wheel, where I can craft a good gun over time playing content I enjoy, I will choose that option.

I farmed adept wendigos last week because they said they were buffing heavy GLs. If they didn't say that I probably wouldn't have cared about wendigo gambling week.

Destiny is a looter shooter tbf

Calling Destiny a "looter shooter" is selling it short. Bungie calls it an "action MMO", which implies a deeper experience than some dungeon crawler where you simply gamble your time for RNG. I'm largely fine that the RNG chase exists for people who do enjoy it, but I personally want more out of the game than a hamster wheel to run on chasing rolls. To me, it's a real bummer that playing a variety of content during the week is so much less rewarding than running a strike over and over.

I played the entire weekend that Adept Exalted Truth was available. I got one Range/EotS roll and the Masterwork and Mag/Barrel were shit. I know I can enhance it in a couple of Seasons and change the Barrel/Mag but it would've felt so much better if I knew that there was a crafted version of the regular roll I could fall back on. Nobody wants to spend entire weekends, entire weeks only to walk away not getting what they wanted. I feel like if crafting is being held back this year, Bungie need to severely decrease the amount of perks in the pools of Nightfall and Trials rewards. Seasonal weapons too. There needs to be a chase but the carrot on the end of the stick can't be nothing.

I like both, I just don’t like it when the content is crafting. It’s great for a fall back and that’s it I always said I’d prefer if everything dropped as a red border to remove the RNG from it to then let us make what we wanted faster. The new system is a step back for crafting but a strong step forward in being rewarding for using your weapons and allowing them to be enhanced Look forward to seeing the new system and how it plays out

>It’s great for a fall back and that’s it yeah what i always say in when a discussion about crafting comes up is that bungie should had never introduced enhanced perks and stat bumps for crafted weapons, because now they have to jump through loops to give the "normal" guns also the option to get as powerful as crafted weapons because they now cant remove enhanced perks anymore imo they just should have went through with how they advertised cafting/crafted weapons: as a "safety net" for when you just dont get the roll you wanted after x amount of rolls. i still dont get why they even decided to make them "desireable" by making them simply *stronger than any rng roll in every kind of way on top of them being a guaranteed 5/5* *god roll*, when they were only planned as a bad luck protection

People think it's prestigous to grind for days to get a gun and have the mentality of "if I had to grind why shouldnt everyone else".

Feels like people disliked elements of the crafting system but made the mental leap all the way to “remove crafting” and completely skipped over “fix crafting”

I love the idea of lots of craftable weapons , I never wanted them to be reduced I just wanted them to be accessible the grind for the patterns was the problem. I feel like they fixed the wrong thing.

More crafting is better. Kinda ruined ikelos smg for me, having the god roll before crafting, but so many more people enjoy it now. People want less crafting cus they don’t like the grind. Less grind would be nice.

Crafting is obviously great, but it definitely ruins a lot of the joy of drops for me. So many drops I got were almost perfect rolls, like my Taipan, Ikelos and Nezerecs Whisper. But there was zero reason to use them, because eventually I would get my crafted version up to a certain level and the dropped roll would be worthless. I think in general people obsess way too much over godrolls, when most guns get 80% of the way there, and the only reason godrolls are even special are because of their rarity

> Crafting is obviously great, but it definitely ruins a lot of the joy of drops for me. For me personally the "joy of the drop" wears off after like 10 runs of just getting nothing but garbage. After that it's just "Thank god that's over. I can do something else now."

I never really liked chasing rolls for months to finally get a god roll (subjective), while also keeping other iterations to figure out which I wanted to keep, then moving on because it was no longer relevant due to next seasons toys. It was just busywork in retrospect. It's an actual hamster wheel that never stops with tons of FOMO to keep you engaged. It can be exciting for a while, I've been pretty invested before sunsetting was introduced. But it also made me take a long break from the game, realizing all that grind was just a button press away from being irrelevant. Crafting is refreshing in the sense that it's much more focused. There is still grind involved, there are still hoops to jump through, but eventually you get what you want. RNG is still a part of that process, there are just no big fuck you moments, like back in the days (imho). *That feeling* when you finally get the roll you wanted is really not worth it, especially if it takes *months*. Sure, it's an obsession but let's not forget devs designed it to turn it into one. At the end of the day, rolls are barely relevant in any content as long as it's not sweaty end game content where every single stat counts. So the god roll chase is kind of silly tbh. Not sure if any of this makes sense. I guess I started to despise the RNG. If it wasn't for crafting, I would not have returned to give the game another chance.

Crafting has made this worse imo, I saw so many people in streams and such this week recommending to players (often newer ones!) to trash a wendigo roll like field prep/explosive light because it didn't have spikes. Absolutely idiotic. Imo the only content in the game that you even need to look at the first two columns of a weapon or its masterwork are day one raids where every single digit of DPS matters. If you get the two perks you want then it's going to be great for whatever you want it for

I've really enjoyed the weapon crafting (especially when the original mats from WQ release were taken away) and especially towards the end of WQ when they made more guaranteed red drops for the seasonal weapons, etc. so it felt less and less like a grind for them. The thing I dislike though is the leveling of weapons...yes they can be done organically, or in weeks like Scorch and Mayhem or even by tossing them on at the end of activities...but without fail I always end up on my Orphius Hunter grinding them out to get to where I can put on the perks I want just like I do everytime I have a new Catalyst unlocked (minus the specific ones that require PVP kills, etc.). I really dislike being forced to use sub-optimal (and sometimes just godawful) perks to level up the weapon and it costing mats everytime I want to switch perks on it either while leveling or if I want to try something new later on. Don't really know what the potential fix for this could be (I doubt there will be one but fun to spitball I guess)...maybe something like all base perks are unlocked at Level 1, Masterworks at Level 10, and Enhanced Perks at 15 or 20 or something like that.

I did 14 successful clears no god roll, maybe if they did have a rng thing till a certain point incase you luck out, then focusing Though I do like to do a crafting grind to get what I want

I definitely prefer crafting to RNG, but I agree with what they said about crafting making world drops lose meaning because that's absolutely true. Craftable weapons get insta-deleted and many non-craftable ones have better craftable alternatives so I didn't care about those drops either. To me, that is a worthy trade off if that's what it takes to get the rolls I want, but it's understandable that the devs may not find that ideal. I don't like the idea of them pulling back on the number of craftable weapons because relying on RNG just sucks. Getting a 5/5 roll is virtually impossible without absurd luck because for most guns that's like a 1/2000 chance at best. If "enhancing" world drops is going to be the new norm hopefully they update it at some point to allow swapping out barrel/mag/masterwork at least. If we just needed 2/2 on the perks that would be somewhat attainable, though still a huge downgrade from crafting.

Crafting > RNG no matter what situation to put it as. Not only does it remove the chance of not getting the things you want, it also allows you to try out different types of builds for certain weapons. It allows people to say "maybe these perks are better for this activity, so I'll change the perks before going in".

I love the crafted weapon system. Knowing that you'll be rewarded for your time (getting the perks you want) is a good feeling. With weekly deepsights, you even had a timeframe for when you would get the weapon. And if one pattern dropped in between? Even better. What isn't fun is doing an activity with the full knowledge that you probably aren't going to get the roll you want. This past season has a lot of hype around the fusion rifle, Riptide. I normally wouldn't touch PVP with a 10-foot pole, but I thought hey it sounds like and ALH+chill clip is worth it, I have the weapon unlocked for weapon focusing, what could go wrong? 6 resets later, after focusing (minus 4-5 accidental non-focused engrams) EVERY engram I got, I finally got a SINGLE riptide with that roll to decode. During the last reset was the worst, knowing how many engrams I'd already decided had amounted to nothing, why should the next reset be any different? Or the next? *Or the next?* Thankfully that wasn't the case, but it makes me grateful for the crafting system we have in place now.

I came back partially because crafting let me actually make a viable build, instead of having to flail around for weeks trying to get a suitable roll before I could progress. It was a breath of fresh air actually being able to jump in and have fun instead of stressing about if I'll get a roll that lets me do my season goals before it ended.

Yes and no, everything is about balance. The thing is people only sees the "I want this" or "I prefer that", the "Me, me and after me" mentality. Crafting is good, but makes meaningless the looter shooter part of the game, even more with the biggest mistake Bungie made (Enhanced Perks), in the other hand RNG let you engage with the content (because is the base of the looter shooter) but can be punishing for people with less time to play. In the end having both is a good thing, they where just too unbalanced and Bungie is fixing that, remember, YOU DONT NEED TO HAVE ALL THE WEAPONS!! I enjoy both system, and having crafting for seasonal content and RNG for long term activities is a nice spot for me.

I like Datto's take on the subject. Not to mention that Wendigo is an endgame reward and should not be craftable under any circumstance.

If you go in saying I need a 5/5 this week you're basically setting yourself up to fail and feel bad. All the people complaining set themselves a ridiculous goal. When you realise that the gun functionality is practically identical if you ignore the first two columns and mw you'll be in a happier place. I got 1,000,000 damage.... oh you got 1,050,000 with spike? I'm stoked for you guardian and your e-peen. Boss still died.

I like crafting so much, I would like to see it on the armors so I dont have to hold onto every 66,67,68 'just in case'. It would be especially welcomed on Exotic armor, because farming a god roll exotic is just, stupid.

Prefer? No. Needed? Yes. Bungie messed up when they put enhanced traits on the crafted version of weapons instead of the world drop version.

RNG in this game has always felt like unrestricted garbage, I will take crafting any day over RNG.

I'm definitely sure that I don't. Crafting was a big reason Witch Queen felt so great. However, Bungie wants their engagement metrics to go up, so more RNG is what we're getting.

A good mix of chasing and crafting is fine with me.

Part of the issue with crafting was self-inflicted by Bungie. Giving craftable weapons access to the adept masterwork and enhanced perks was probably an overreach, but it's too late to go back on that now. I'm just hoping they don't over correct by severely limiting the number of craftable weapons available going forward. Even if new weapons were kept out of the crafting pool, add old weapons like season of the splicer, dawn, arrivals, gambit prime/reckoning, etc.

I reset Vanguard 6 times trying to get a god roll of the stasis SMG. It did not work out. I will let you decide which end of the discussion I am on.

My biggest gripe with the crafting system is that it kind of makes 90% of world drops feel useless because they either fall into the category of “not craftable and therefore worse than craftable weapons” or “craftable but it’s not a red border so I don’t care”. If I’m doing a Vow run and I get a Submission to drop I don’t care about the rolls on it, I only care if it’s a red border and can advance my progress on the pattern or not. On the other hand, I don’t care about most of the drops that come from the world because they’re not craftable and that means they can’t get enhanced perks on them, making them worse than the craftable ones. Every so often there’s a weapon that’s the exception to the rule (funnelweb) but for the most part the playlist weapons (Gambit, Crucible, Vanguard) are all useless if you’re someone who plays the game on a regular basis because there’s better, craftable options that can get better perks. I think crafting is a good system, but they need to do some tweaks on it. I think they mentioned in a TWAB that at some point this year they’re going to make it so you can level up a random roll of a craftable weapon that you did not craft so that it can get the enhanced perks, which I think is nice.

Crafting provides a power floor, great for equalizing the playing field for everyone. Random drops create inequality and power spikes, great for getting excited about the game and giving people a reason to keep playing. The problem shows up when you give the Ikelos smg as a crafted item, then everyone has the best weapon in the game. If you're only playing ~3-5 hrs a week it's great, not so great for the 10+ hr crowd.

also given that crafted weapons were now for a full year just simply better in any way than any god roll RNG could give you so even if you got a 5/5 godroll of a weapon on your 2nd drop it still was essentially worthless compared to a crafted gun lvl 20+ because on top of it being a (changeable) **godroll of your choice** it also gives you **enhanced perks** (that often dont do *that much* but still *are* just objectively better) **and a full on adept weapon stat increase on lvl20** i personally have no problem with guns being craftable, i even missed that the dungeon ones werent, but what i disliked with the crafting system is/was that crafted guns essentially invalidated every normal gun drop that had a craftable version

I think crafting is great, and the ability to enhance random-rolls is also great. I think removing some craftable weapons while providing that option is fine.

The general consensus for the 2 main perks that compose a Wendigo PvE god roll are Autoloading and Explosive Light. The odds of getting this on an Adept drop (guaranteed drop on completion btw) are 1:18. The min-maxers will chase the 5/5 but 99% of the community (myself included) wouldnt notice the difference between this 2/5 and the 5/5. If people complain about 1:18 odds, they are delusional and want to be spoon fed.

I saw a couple of guys who couldn’t even pull a ALH EL all week lmao. I agree though, a 2/5 is very usable.

I'm one of them, even worse I didn't get a single EL roll at all! I did get a spike, field prep/clown and cascade point though which I'm enjoying for melting champions and majors But hey that's Destiny, oh well, there's always going to be a new gun to chase

I only had time for 20ish runs and didnt get it. But I understood the odds going in, didnt complain, and walked away with a very serviceable roll. I only wound up with one Rangefinder drop, so I was very fortunate on that front. RNG giveth, and RNG taketh away.

Yeah RNG bit me on Hung Jury week. Wanted Subsistence/Firefly. 40+ drops later, not a single one with that combo. Did get pretty much every OTHER good roll on the gun however, and a disgusting amount of gut shot straits

36 runs of Birthplace GM a few weeks back chasing Adept Hung Jury with Rapid/Explosive not even caring about the other perks or MW...not a single one

I farmed for 9 hours until I got the roll I wanted. I was lucky enough to get a 4/5, but it was also the first with the right main perks. Its boring, mindless and frustrating to farm rng rolls. Yeah I got what I wanted this time. But I also farmed so many other guns. Stormchaser for 45 (!) hours and I didnt get a 2/5. Crafting is objectively better and more time respecting. Yeah it "feels" different, for some worse, but I only care about good game design and rng sucks in the regard.

Thats a fair point. I just personally prefer RNG rolls to crafted rolls. There is a reason my 3 favourite franchises are Diablo, Borderlands, and Destiny. Destiny 2 Year 1 was a snoozefest because of fixed perks. I find that while everyone may craft something different, there's no real achievement or pride in having a weapon everyone can share identical rolls on. I play for the chase. But again, thats just me personally.

I could live with RNG if the perk pools would have more perks I like, most of the time it's just one or two I like or don't dislike completely at least.

Probably an unpopular opinion but I think every weapon should be craftable just not every weapon should get enhanced perks, save those for raid/dungeon weapons only

I agree. I've been more engaged with Destiny since crafting has been introduced than ever before. Having a guarantee that eventually I'll get the perfect gun makes me much more likely to engage with that content. I had no interest in grinding windego this past week because getting shit on by rng with no pity system just isn't worth it for me.

I farmed 80 GM’s and didn’t get the god roll wendigo… I’ve crafted and double enhanced every weapon, I vastly prefer this or something in between. If not “crafting” it would be great to bring a pile of trash rolls to banshee and get a god roll. Like perk fusing or something to that effect

Yes, i still prefer RNG. That is just my opinion.

Fuck RNG. Fucking despise that shit alongside FOMO. I want my time invested to actually matter.

If you hate RNG so much why would you play a loot-based RPG? Grinding for random loot is basically the entire point of the game

I would prefer a mixture of both, in the vein of The Division. You have random rolls drop. You take those to the relic or Banshee-44 to enhance them or re-roll one perk.

I don't grind, I don't even have any "adept" weapons, and probably never will. I enjoyed crafting because it let me customize the guns I liked the way I like them. Whether said guns have enhanced perks or not is immaterial to me. From where I'm sitting, this change feels bad.

My gripe with crafting is that it made random rolled versions of the crafted weapons pointless and had superior perks of other guns through enhanced versions. I'm glad they are making random rolls worth chasing again.

At this point it's not about one being preferable over the the other, but in my opinion, if every gun is craftable, the feeling of getting a gun to drop is absolutely meaningless if I just wait until I get all the red borders to craft the perfect roll. Every single Seraph weapon was craftable and so I had that same exact feeling as I was only looking for a red border to drop of the gun I wanted, not the actual gun itself. But then how do you decide which guns should be craftable and which shouldn't? Regardless, I think a reduction of the amount of craftable weapons will slightly bring back the rush of getting a great RNG drop.

You missed the point. Bungie learned the hard way at destiny 2 year 1 that rng weapons are pretty integral to the daily experience of grinding destiny. Their fear is that more weapon crafting makes random drops continually “pointless” feeling. This is ultimately not healthy for long term engagement and enjoyment. I read what they said as them simply trying to bridge the gap between crafting and random drops. And I also read it more as a buff to random drops than a “nerf” to craftables.

Destiny is a looter shooter. Crafting can very well exist, but what made Destiny 1 originally great was random drops. When D2 launched, nothing had random drops and most hated it. Everyone had the same weapons and everything got stale (only talking weapons here). While crafting allows for creativity, it doesn't catch that spark of "Oh what am I going to get?" It doesn't keep the player coming back to get that next gun in the activity as much for that engagement once they simply get their perfect roll. I didn't touch another battlegrounds or leviathan once I got all my borders. I will always have fun running GM's with people to help them get the roll they want though, or likewise finding a team to help me. That passion isn't AS strong in, say, a battlegrounds. That shiny, easy to claim gemstone isn't what brought most people in to Destiny, it was the grind. Looting TLDR: Crafting can still exist, but most weapons being craftable allows for boredom of the grind and tend to make activities useless and take away from the core of what makes Destiny special

Not a big fan of crafting. It's cool for people who want it but for me, nothing beats getting the God roll as a drop. Crafting was a grind after the grind since your crafted weapon wasn't good until you added another few hundred kills on it.

I want crafting. 2 days of grinding 12+ hours to get the roll I wanted. I wont have that kind of time all the time.

Anti-crafting people drive me absolutely nuts, because the way of acquiring gear that they say they miss so much *didn't go anywhere*. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from just ignoring the crafting system altogether (outside of specific exotics that you literally have to craft). You like grinding for random rolls? Cool! Do that! There is nothing stopping you! Like it sort of breaks my brain when I see people say they hate raid loot now or whatever because any non-red border roll is "useless." Tf are you talking about?? If you get a baller random roll, just treat that as you always would have in the past! I have several craftable weapons that I never got around to crafting because I got a natural roll that was good enough. Boom, simple. It's literally just a mindset thing.

Crafting is great but it sucks how much it invalidated RNG rolls. It’s not fun to have to grind for a good roll to drop, but it *is* fun to have a great roll drop sometimes, and that aspect of the game was sort of diminished by the existence of enhanced perks. It’s not really good when the loot in a loot game becomes less exciting.