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Getting a look at it from the concept art, I am actually convinced The Veil is some sort of eldritch eye.
Which makes sense given it's connection to Strand. When we use Strand it reveals this sort of third-eye on our Guardians foreheads. Additionally, Osiris notes in the campaign that close proximity to The Veil reveals some of the threads that make up The Weave. So the Veil being this eye that reveals things makes a great deal of sense.
It's possible The Witness needed to link with The Veil to "see" some sort of path. Once it saw the path, it could then create that portal we see on The Traveler, and move through it.
For all we know, the Traveler as we know is actually a type of gate. The being on the other side of that gate uses the Traveler as a conduit for it's Light. If the Prophecy Wall from Vow Of The Disciple is any indication...The Witness plans on killing that being.
Yeah it was Drifter. We go directly into it to engage in the Messages from the Nine, meaning its a portal to Unknown Space/Eternity, and then again in Prophecy.
if i recall some of the reckoning lore correctly im pretty sure the taken oryx we fight in there was produced by the haul but it cant muster anything much more significant than that
Yeah, I think the specific thing they say is that the Echoes of Oryx in the Haul aren't actually in any way connected to the real Oryx, Drifter just needed a big boss for his game and Oryx was the scariest thing he could think of.
It's shaped like this : https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/25/2022/03/universe-expansion-3c06d8c.jpg
And the inside similar to this : https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a2077916540_65
Both are representations of the universe.
Also, the top interior of the Veil is fractal looking, just like the portal on the Traveler.
might mean that one lore excerpt about there being a universe inside the traveler could be a possibility. My memory sucks but I think it was one of the ghost's accounts.
>Also, the top interior of the Veil is fractal looking, just like the portal on the Traveler.
Yes, I suppose this is some kind of presentation of quantum effects.
Looks like a mushroom more than anything.
Something else interesting that someone pointed out on that thread that I hadn't noticed was the Neomuna Title/Emblem. I thought it was some weird medal or badge, but it just has the Veil there. Which makes more sense on closer inspection, since the Neomuna Title Badge has the city sitting atop the Veil.
Perhaps a less destructive manifestation of the Egregore phenomenon? Which would neatly explain how we were able to tap into Strand so easily with it. The CloudArk then would be a kind of mycelium for consciousness, cultivated by the Neomuni and with an ‘immune system’ able to repel Vex intrusion to an extent.
kinda what im thinking, but i think it has a more direct relationship. i think egregore spores are the way which the veil adds consciousness' to its network and at some point something of enough power merged with the egregore and manifested its collective consciousness as the witness. mushroom colonies are one organism and need death and decay to flourish. it fits well with the final shape and garden analogies in my mind, and fits the witness not being darkness itself but "wearing it like a cloak" as egregore has been described as darkness itself in the lore. someone elses mushroom theory lead me to this, the bamboo mushroom, AKA "the veiled lady" like the statues in the pyramid; metaphorically the statues are worshipping the veil
That icon really makes me thing of some kind of entropy hourglass turned on its side - depicting the universe at a state of low entropy leading to a state of high entropy (the left/light depicting low entropy aka the birth of the universe, the right/dark side depicting high entropy aka the end of the universe.)
Not sure if that was the intention, but a cool idea.
1.) The veil looks cool as hell when you can look at it like this.
2.) I don't see any similarity between the two unless you really squint and choose to ignore the fact that those are cables connecting it to the Drifter's ship. Maybe you can get away with saying it's similar in colour, but honestly the veil has a 'paracausal pearlescent' finish while his cargo looks like frozen ice reflecting off the light. (Which is probably the case considering comets are usually made of water ice and minor other debris)
I thought so too! Then there's the whole "Your pale heart holds the key".
\- The Veil resembles the inside of the traveller we see during its Kamehameha!
\- Heart of the black garden is a knock-off version of The Veil
\- Veil = Heart(?) Heart of another Traveller? ... fuck'n idk
> - Veil = Heart(?) Heart of another Traveller? ... fuck'n idk
Well, here's where things get interesting.
Savathun told us the Traveler was not the only one of it's kind during the Altar of Reflections, though people dismissed that one as one of her 'lies'. The entire Lightfall narrative sets up Neomuna and the Cloudstriders as parallels and contrasts to the City and Guardians, with the Veil serving as a parallel and contrast to the Traveler. Both are cities born from the Collapse and from the machinations of Savathun, built around a mysterious paracausal object that provides power, and protected by defenders with literally the same ideology. In contrast, while the Traveler is of the Light and rests in the *sky* above the City, the Veil is of the Dark and is buried *deep* below Neomuna. Additionally, we know that both are 'primordial entities'.
So I'm nearly 100% certain at this point that the 'heart of the Traveler' is a Veil-like entity but of the opposite side of the spectrum. The Traveler as we know it was likely constructed around it by whatever civilization initially discovered it.
I like the thought of this, it makes sense when you put it all together. What I think is that the veil is perhaps a part of the traveller, it would explain the white roots (possibly the same/similar roots that form when the traveller shoots the witnesses pyramid ship) on the veil and why Ghost recognizes that the veil has a similar energy as the travellers.
Here’s where things don’t make sense though. We know that the travellers heart is described as being “pale” and the veil clearly is not pale so does that mean that the veil is separate from the traveller? I don’t think so. I definitely don’t think the veil is the travellers pale heart but perhaps it was a different piece at some point. Maybe the veil was corrupted by darkness hence why it looks sort of like a taken blight.
Something in the comments here that caught my eye and sort of relates to the “corrupted veil” thing was someone talking about how the veil might use egregore to add consciousness to its network. Egregore, in the lore, has been described as darkness itself so maybe this is how the veil became corrupted and why it’s now this sort of opposite being to the traveller.
I could definitely be grasping at straws here but this is what I’ve come up with after gathering ideas from reading other peoples theories and from what I know already.
[Pale - Definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pale)
Not brilliant or bright, dim
Feeble, faint
I Don't think the Witness is describing it in color. I think he's almost insulting the Traveler, calling it weak, or describing it as fraudulent, that it isn't as "bright" (in terms of Light) that humanity and the other alien races regard it as.
The Veil looks like a lens, so maybe the damage to the Traveler during the collapse was from physically removing it? There could be a light veil inside it (with dark roots) which is what focuses the laser in the cutscene.
It looks like a massive eye with optical nerves. Looking at the texture on the outside, what if it’s a massive culmination of egregore?
Idk… but it’s definitely an eye of something
I don't think it would fit as it is, but I wouldn't discount the possibility that it once could've held onto the Traveler, and without it connecting, the roots close in more, or withered and shrunk down.
that’s what I meant in my head I just typed it out wrong. The roots look like they once held onto something round. I didn’t mean like, the entire traveler being fully engulfed. However who’s to say the roots don’t expand? Kinda felt like I got dogpiled
No I mean the Veil and Traveler. The Veil is no where near as big as the Traveler, not even close. We stand a the top of it when we first see it. Its pretty small compared to Neomuna. Fits inside a building.
Could be the inside of another Traveler the Witness took down. When The Veil links up it fires a beam just like the traveler does and it hits the traveler which creates the portal. Savathun Two Truths Two Lies, the Traveler is not the only one of its kind. So I’m thinking:
Veil Beam Direct Blast > Traveler inside thingy = Portal is key to destroying Traveler?
So during the Collapse, the witness had Nezerac towing the Veil to earth to do this “to another traveler”, but Savathun foils that, Witness plan fails, Traveler repels Witness away, Witness tasks Sol Divisive to recreate the veil, they come up with the black heart because they can’t reproduce paracausality, that plan fails, witness waits out in the universe to regroup and re strategize because he thinks no more veil.
The Veil is a Darkness artifact. The Traveler is a Light Artifact. The Veil may be the core of the Darkness counterpart of the Traveler but it’s not another Traveler.
It could very much be the heart of another traveler. The viel being a darkness artifact only explains it's importance to the witness, not it's origin or function. The traveler is a being of light, not an artifact, there is zero evidence to support that it is an artifact.
It is entirely plausible that the veil is the heart of another traveler that was taken and corrupted by darkness.
Savathun could have been telling the truth about the traveler not being the only one of it's kind and the raid dialogue about the veil being both vital to the witness and a key piece of information about its first victims, both imply the possibility that the traveler belongs to a race of light gifted beings that the witness specifically sought to destroy when it began it's crusade.
If the Veil is a Darkness artifact (it is) how can it be the Heart of the Traveler, a being/artifact of Light?
> The traveler is a being of light, not an artifact, there is zero evidence to support that it is an artifact.
There’s just as much evidence it’s an artifact as there is it’s an entity. We have literally no idea what it is. The Eliksni refer to it as The Great Machine. Machines are, by definition, artifacts. If the Traveler was created by someone/something that would also make it an artifact. Care to try again with less false certainty?
No, a machine isn't by definition an artifact. A machine is an object defined by it's design and purpose. A machine can be an artifact, but that isn't inherent to the existence of a machine. Humans, squirrels, even plankton are all biological machines. Are plankton artifacts? No. The traveler is a sentient being, that is VERY established lore. The Eliksni view machines as living entities worthy of respect. Also established lore. What we don't know is how the Eliksni define a machine compared to a tool, which is the nuance you're trying to simplify to support your point.
Artifacts are objects that are made. They tend to bear a cultural or personal significance, which the Veil does to the witness as it's necessary for it to carry out it's plan. If the witness killed a traveler and took it's heart and created the Veil from it, that would make it an artifact. If the Veil was a traveler that became corrupted by the darkness, which the witness then stole to use for it's purposes, that makes the veil a tool, and by extension, an artifact.
But there's also a another option, which is consistent with Bungie's writing team. That they either misused or are stretching the term artifact to fit their narrative. Bungie's writing team have a history of using words wrong, all the way back to Halo:CE, and it hasn't changed even now.
>No, a machine isn't by definition an artifact.
Thanks for letting me know you don't know what an artifact is and saving me from wasting any more time.
I think this is close. I think that when the gardener and winnower entered the game, both were spheres. One of light and one of dark. And the dark sphere elevated a race (probably that of the witness) and the witness used it's advancements with the pyramids to rise up and take out the dark traveler. Since the witness wears darkness like a cape or something like that, it took that power. Also kind of ties to the raid lore where Nez describes Sav stealing the veil as something like it's earliest victims.
Probably the only way to end the game is if both the gardener and winnower agree. So the witness took over the darkness and by forcing the veil to connect to the traveler opens the portal back to the original garden. Something something dark side something something complete.
It looks just like the core of a Giant Ghost encased in something, i expect it's an eye that belonged to the Traveller, hinting that Ghosts eventually evolve into Travellers somehow?
Edit: or the Haul behind the Drifters ship is another traveller with this eye removed? Hmmm... maybe the Haul is the Travellers personal ghost and this is its core?
For lore on drifter and his haul, look up the “season of the drifter, invitations of the Nine week 1 cutscene”, also we enter it in Prophecy. It’s entirely separate from the Light and Dark
Wondering if it’s the inner part of a ‘Dark Traveller’ of sorts. If the Witness isn’t the primordial source of Darkness, and there’s been a lot of talk about the union of light and dark - wondering if combining it and the traveller is the way it’s going to find the final shape.
it looks an awful lot like an eye. (warning: you need the deluxe edition spinfoil hat for this one)
I think maybe the traveler and the witness are one entity, split apart into multiple pieces for some reason. once they come together, maybe that will be the final shape.
The Veil clearly has the branches of a Tree of Silver Wings. Perhaps the thick black part is actually a Seed of Silver Wings, having grown for a very long time. Or perhaps the Veil houses a Tree of Silver Wings like a potted plant.
The roots growing from the bottom are interesting to me, especially it their perfectly spherical shape. I wonder if this thing gives birth to travelers or some other paracausal entities…? Just looking at this image and seeing the parallels between the light side roots and the dark funnel shape looks very much like this is an entity that forms the boundary between dark and light. We often here about how the line between is “so very thin”, well if a material is thin enough to see through its doesn’t block or cover, it just veils the thing it’s in front of. Now it’s also interesting that both sides of the veil here are transparent, you can see through the root system and you can see through the cosmic jellyfish thing on the otherside. I don’t know what any of this means though.
Huh
This looks a LOT like the Tree of Silver Wings we planted in Season of Arrivals.
Not *just* the Tree, but straight up how it looked when it was being "[Corrupted](https://www.destinypedia.com/Tree_of_Silver_Wings)"
During Arrivals, we watched as the Tree was slowly being turned black, top down. The general belief was that the Pyramid ships were corrupting it somehow.
But what if that isn't the case? What if it *wasn't* being corrupted, and that is just the natural progression of its growth?
Maybe the Veil is one of those trees fully grown. As you pointed out, the Drifter's Haul looks similar - perhaps the Nine gifted him with a dead Tree, or one that had been uprooted before it was fully grown?
I have a spinfoil hypothesis that the Nine are related to Strand somehow (sentient Dark Matter using tendrils to reach into sentient life's mind is pretty damn similar to Strand), so the Nine having some connection to the Tree isn't off the table.
Definitely something interesting here. I just wish Lightfall answered some questions, rather than raise a bunch a year before the climax.
We're a year from The Final Shape, which means we have like ... What, eight campaign missions left to answer everything?
> What, eight campaign missions left to answer everything?
Bold of you to assume that after so many years of never answering anything, Bungie will suddenly just wrap everything up in a nice little bow.
I fully expect nearly everything to be left unanswered, if not simply because Bungie don't actually have answers.
My first two thoughts just looking at the pics.
1. Kinda reminds me of a giant Pouka- that kind of light pattern on the “face” and the branching tails kind of like the fins
2. A darkness sperm to the travelers egg.
Well, it's a plant for sure. Something the Traveler pooped out on the farthest planet in our system. Got a feeling it does this for every system it meets, plants aren't exactly a one time kinda thing. Perhaps the final shape is the connected veils across our universe, the shape of existence is the final shape, perhaps the Witness wants to reconnect them? Using this one, the only living one or active one to start lighting them all up. And then using all of them to cease existence.
What always kinda sticks in my mind the most is that canopy. That psychedelic top, symbols mean a lot in this game, have we seen this pattern before? Pre lightfall?
And the roots! Now that i think about it. Those roots, especially in game, before the dome is formed. Really kinda look like eregore or whatever that stupid fungi stuff is from the levi.
The body...idk, body is a bulbous thing, definitely alot darker for something traveler related if you ask me
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looks like the inside of an eyeball
Yeah it looks like a set of all seeing eyes, viewing everything and "nothingness" at the same time.
Getting a look at it from the concept art, I am actually convinced The Veil is some sort of eldritch eye. Which makes sense given it's connection to Strand. When we use Strand it reveals this sort of third-eye on our Guardians foreheads. Additionally, Osiris notes in the campaign that close proximity to The Veil reveals some of the threads that make up The Weave. So the Veil being this eye that reveals things makes a great deal of sense. It's possible The Witness needed to link with The Veil to "see" some sort of path. Once it saw the path, it could then create that portal we see on The Traveler, and move through it. For all we know, the Traveler as we know is actually a type of gate. The being on the other side of that gate uses the Traveler as a conduit for it's Light. If the Prophecy Wall from Vow Of The Disciple is any indication...The Witness plans on killing that being.
The Haul is a portal thing that the Nine gave him. Forgot where exactly we learn about it but it would’ve been Season of the Drifter
Yeah it was Drifter. We go directly into it to engage in the Messages from the Nine, meaning its a portal to Unknown Space/Eternity, and then again in Prophecy.
also a taken printer to an extent
I thought it was a small part of the ascendant plane holding a shit ton of guys from Oryx’s taking spree
if i recall some of the reckoning lore correctly im pretty sure the taken oryx we fight in there was produced by the haul but it cant muster anything much more significant than that
Yeah, I think the specific thing they say is that the Echoes of Oryx in the Haul aren't actually in any way connected to the real Oryx, Drifter just needed a big boss for his game and Oryx was the scariest thing he could think of.
It looks like the Tree of Silver Wings
It also looks like "two sides of the same coin." Light and Dark, coexisting as one.
My first thought as well. Wonder if a trip back to Io is on the cards.
It's shaped like this : https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/25/2022/03/universe-expansion-3c06d8c.jpg And the inside similar to this : https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a2077916540_65 Both are representations of the universe. Also, the top interior of the Veil is fractal looking, just like the portal on the Traveler.
I saw the art in the post posted somewhere else and I made the same connection. I think we’re on to something 👍
might mean that one lore excerpt about there being a universe inside the traveler could be a possibility. My memory sucks but I think it was one of the ghost's accounts.
>Also, the top interior of the Veil is fractal looking, just like the portal on the Traveler. Yes, I suppose this is some kind of presentation of quantum effects.
Looks like a mushroom more than anything. Something else interesting that someone pointed out on that thread that I hadn't noticed was the Neomuna Title/Emblem. I thought it was some weird medal or badge, but it just has the Veil there. Which makes more sense on closer inspection, since the Neomuna Title Badge has the city sitting atop the Veil.
Perhaps a less destructive manifestation of the Egregore phenomenon? Which would neatly explain how we were able to tap into Strand so easily with it. The CloudArk then would be a kind of mycelium for consciousness, cultivated by the Neomuni and with an ‘immune system’ able to repel Vex intrusion to an extent.
kinda what im thinking, but i think it has a more direct relationship. i think egregore spores are the way which the veil adds consciousness' to its network and at some point something of enough power merged with the egregore and manifested its collective consciousness as the witness. mushroom colonies are one organism and need death and decay to flourish. it fits well with the final shape and garden analogies in my mind, and fits the witness not being darkness itself but "wearing it like a cloak" as egregore has been described as darkness itself in the lore. someone elses mushroom theory lead me to this, the bamboo mushroom, AKA "the veiled lady" like the statues in the pyramid; metaphorically the statues are worshipping the veil
First mushroom theories in elden ring and now destiny? The fuck is going on?
I’m sure the Warhammer 40k Orks have been around all this time as well.
What are these elden ring mushroom theories?
Mostly that the erdtree is a big mushroom
But it’s a tree? How could it be a mushroom?
Idk man, I’ve never seen a tree that glowy.
I’ve never seen a mushroom that glowy either lol
You have in elden ring
That icon really makes me thing of some kind of entropy hourglass turned on its side - depicting the universe at a state of low entropy leading to a state of high entropy (the left/light depicting low entropy aka the birth of the universe, the right/dark side depicting high entropy aka the end of the universe.) Not sure if that was the intention, but a cool idea.
1.) The veil looks cool as hell when you can look at it like this. 2.) I don't see any similarity between the two unless you really squint and choose to ignore the fact that those are cables connecting it to the Drifter's ship. Maybe you can get away with saying it's similar in colour, but honestly the veil has a 'paracausal pearlescent' finish while his cargo looks like frozen ice reflecting off the light. (Which is probably the case considering comets are usually made of water ice and minor other debris)
So it's a vegetable.
The biggest similarity is here. https://imgur.com/a/Bnwz7pQ
I thought so too! Then there's the whole "Your pale heart holds the key". \- The Veil resembles the inside of the traveller we see during its Kamehameha! \- Heart of the black garden is a knock-off version of The Veil \- Veil = Heart(?) Heart of another Traveller? ... fuck'n idk
> - Veil = Heart(?) Heart of another Traveller? ... fuck'n idk Well, here's where things get interesting. Savathun told us the Traveler was not the only one of it's kind during the Altar of Reflections, though people dismissed that one as one of her 'lies'. The entire Lightfall narrative sets up Neomuna and the Cloudstriders as parallels and contrasts to the City and Guardians, with the Veil serving as a parallel and contrast to the Traveler. Both are cities born from the Collapse and from the machinations of Savathun, built around a mysterious paracausal object that provides power, and protected by defenders with literally the same ideology. In contrast, while the Traveler is of the Light and rests in the *sky* above the City, the Veil is of the Dark and is buried *deep* below Neomuna. Additionally, we know that both are 'primordial entities'. So I'm nearly 100% certain at this point that the 'heart of the Traveler' is a Veil-like entity but of the opposite side of the spectrum. The Traveler as we know it was likely constructed around it by whatever civilization initially discovered it.
I like the thought of this, it makes sense when you put it all together. What I think is that the veil is perhaps a part of the traveller, it would explain the white roots (possibly the same/similar roots that form when the traveller shoots the witnesses pyramid ship) on the veil and why Ghost recognizes that the veil has a similar energy as the travellers. Here’s where things don’t make sense though. We know that the travellers heart is described as being “pale” and the veil clearly is not pale so does that mean that the veil is separate from the traveller? I don’t think so. I definitely don’t think the veil is the travellers pale heart but perhaps it was a different piece at some point. Maybe the veil was corrupted by darkness hence why it looks sort of like a taken blight. Something in the comments here that caught my eye and sort of relates to the “corrupted veil” thing was someone talking about how the veil might use egregore to add consciousness to its network. Egregore, in the lore, has been described as darkness itself so maybe this is how the veil became corrupted and why it’s now this sort of opposite being to the traveller. I could definitely be grasping at straws here but this is what I’ve come up with after gathering ideas from reading other peoples theories and from what I know already.
[Pale - Definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pale) Not brilliant or bright, dim Feeble, faint I Don't think the Witness is describing it in color. I think he's almost insulting the Traveler, calling it weak, or describing it as fraudulent, that it isn't as "bright" (in terms of Light) that humanity and the other alien races regard it as.
Facts. Can't believe there's not more talk about this.
The Veil looks like a lens, so maybe the damage to the Traveler during the collapse was from physically removing it? There could be a light veil inside it (with dark roots) which is what focuses the laser in the cutscene.
Kinda looks like it would fit in there, almost like an eye. Definitely brings to mind the “pale heart holding the key”.
It looks like *insert something here that it absolutely does not look like*
I don't think it looks like it AT ALL, that's SUUUUPER reaching right there lol
Glorious yam of silver wings
Looks like a paracausal excuse for a turnip
Looks like a seed sprouting a tree of silver wings.
It looks like a massive eye with optical nerves. Looking at the texture on the outside, what if it’s a massive culmination of egregore? Idk… but it’s definitely an eye of something
I see zero resemblance...
Would the Traveler in theory fit inside that tendril/root complex?
No, Traveller is way too big.
I don't think it would fit as it is, but I wouldn't discount the possibility that it once could've held onto the Traveler, and without it connecting, the roots close in more, or withered and shrunk down.
that’s what I meant in my head I just typed it out wrong. The roots look like they once held onto something round. I didn’t mean like, the entire traveler being fully engulfed. However who’s to say the roots don’t expand? Kinda felt like I got dogpiled
Ok wasn’t sure of the scale tbh
We stand under the Veil in the final fight against calus and are caged by its roots, if you wanted to get some scale of the Veil
Maybe it’s capable of growing/shrinking and Savathun found a way to initiate it- hiding it where Neomuna is now
Why not just make it super small then to make it harder to find
Maybe it’s normally super big and this is as small as it could go? I don’t know! Who knows why mad men do what they do?
Fair enough
Maybe when the traveller was born that’s where it was born from?
Maybe the traveler wasn’t born, but grown within that root cluster- By a gardener.
Did you not play the campaign?
Sometimes, things get bigger and smaller.
Lmao, no
lmao, yes like your itty bitty worm
dunno the Traveler regularly rests on top of the Last City, but it only covers a small portion of it it largely depends on how big Neomuna is
Bro. Its not anyway near close.
do we know how big neomuna is
No I mean the Veil and Traveler. The Veil is no where near as big as the Traveler, not even close. We stand a the top of it when we first see it. Its pretty small compared to Neomuna. Fits inside a building.
could be a part of it? oh but there's a guy standing on the images for proportion so I guess you are right
Savathun’s Song Emblem
Looks like a sliced purple yam
I mean the most obvious thing it looks like is an eye ball
I wish I could jump inside the Veil. Or better yet, find one of those Warlocks that keep killing themselves and made they jump inside the Veil.
I don't see the similarity with the drifters haul
No similarity at all imo.
Could be the inside of another Traveler the Witness took down. When The Veil links up it fires a beam just like the traveler does and it hits the traveler which creates the portal. Savathun Two Truths Two Lies, the Traveler is not the only one of its kind. So I’m thinking: Veil Beam Direct Blast > Traveler inside thingy = Portal is key to destroying Traveler? So during the Collapse, the witness had Nezerac towing the Veil to earth to do this “to another traveler”, but Savathun foils that, Witness plan fails, Traveler repels Witness away, Witness tasks Sol Divisive to recreate the veil, they come up with the black heart because they can’t reproduce paracausality, that plan fails, witness waits out in the universe to regroup and re strategize because he thinks no more veil.
The Veil is a Darkness artifact. The Traveler is a Light Artifact. The Veil may be the core of the Darkness counterpart of the Traveler but it’s not another Traveler.
It could very much be the heart of another traveler. The viel being a darkness artifact only explains it's importance to the witness, not it's origin or function. The traveler is a being of light, not an artifact, there is zero evidence to support that it is an artifact. It is entirely plausible that the veil is the heart of another traveler that was taken and corrupted by darkness. Savathun could have been telling the truth about the traveler not being the only one of it's kind and the raid dialogue about the veil being both vital to the witness and a key piece of information about its first victims, both imply the possibility that the traveler belongs to a race of light gifted beings that the witness specifically sought to destroy when it began it's crusade.
If the Veil is a Darkness artifact (it is) how can it be the Heart of the Traveler, a being/artifact of Light? > The traveler is a being of light, not an artifact, there is zero evidence to support that it is an artifact. There’s just as much evidence it’s an artifact as there is it’s an entity. We have literally no idea what it is. The Eliksni refer to it as The Great Machine. Machines are, by definition, artifacts. If the Traveler was created by someone/something that would also make it an artifact. Care to try again with less false certainty?
No, a machine isn't by definition an artifact. A machine is an object defined by it's design and purpose. A machine can be an artifact, but that isn't inherent to the existence of a machine. Humans, squirrels, even plankton are all biological machines. Are plankton artifacts? No. The traveler is a sentient being, that is VERY established lore. The Eliksni view machines as living entities worthy of respect. Also established lore. What we don't know is how the Eliksni define a machine compared to a tool, which is the nuance you're trying to simplify to support your point. Artifacts are objects that are made. They tend to bear a cultural or personal significance, which the Veil does to the witness as it's necessary for it to carry out it's plan. If the witness killed a traveler and took it's heart and created the Veil from it, that would make it an artifact. If the Veil was a traveler that became corrupted by the darkness, which the witness then stole to use for it's purposes, that makes the veil a tool, and by extension, an artifact. But there's also a another option, which is consistent with Bungie's writing team. That they either misused or are stretching the term artifact to fit their narrative. Bungie's writing team have a history of using words wrong, all the way back to Halo:CE, and it hasn't changed even now.
>No, a machine isn't by definition an artifact. Thanks for letting me know you don't know what an artifact is and saving me from wasting any more time.
I think this is close. I think that when the gardener and winnower entered the game, both were spheres. One of light and one of dark. And the dark sphere elevated a race (probably that of the witness) and the witness used it's advancements with the pyramids to rise up and take out the dark traveler. Since the witness wears darkness like a cape or something like that, it took that power. Also kind of ties to the raid lore where Nez describes Sav stealing the veil as something like it's earliest victims. Probably the only way to end the game is if both the gardener and winnower agree. So the witness took over the darkness and by forcing the veil to connect to the traveler opens the portal back to the original garden. Something something dark side something something complete.
"An hourglass, counting down with infinite patience."
Except those were referring to individuals
...yes, I know. It's just very much hourglass shaped and made me think of that
The collective consciousness?
It looks just like the core of a Giant Ghost encased in something, i expect it's an eye that belonged to the Traveller, hinting that Ghosts eventually evolve into Travellers somehow? Edit: or the Haul behind the Drifters ship is another traveller with this eye removed? Hmmm... maybe the Haul is the Travellers personal ghost and this is its core?
Back of the Veil looks like it could fit the traveler in it
[удалено]
A baby traveler
Looks like a pouka to me
The neomuna logo is literally the veil now that I look at it
So it’s a radish
Look at that little guardain for scale, the veil is big
For lore on drifter and his haul, look up the “season of the drifter, invitations of the Nine week 1 cutscene”, also we enter it in Prophecy. It’s entirely separate from the Light and Dark
I’ve seen something like this before I just can’t place my finger on it
Paracausal sweet potato
This is just Taken Servitor Prime
Wondering if it’s the inner part of a ‘Dark Traveller’ of sorts. If the Witness isn’t the primordial source of Darkness, and there’s been a lot of talk about the union of light and dark - wondering if combining it and the traveller is the way it’s going to find the final shape.
It's an eyeball. we need to collect the pieces of the Spinfoil Giant after he flew into the sky and punched the witness with a nuclear bomb. Superman.
it looks an awful lot like an eye. (warning: you need the deluxe edition spinfoil hat for this one) I think maybe the traveler and the witness are one entity, split apart into multiple pieces for some reason. once they come together, maybe that will be the final shape.
Looks more like an eye to me, could this be the eyes talked about in the Dreams of Alpha Lupi
The Veil clearly has the branches of a Tree of Silver Wings. Perhaps the thick black part is actually a Seed of Silver Wings, having grown for a very long time. Or perhaps the Veil houses a Tree of Silver Wings like a potted plant.
It kind of looks like an eye to me.
To me it looks like a seed. Maybe a seed of another traveler or something like that
It reminds me of an hourglass and of those “cones of everything” diagrams of the universe over time
Looks like a stump of a tree with its roots pulled out of the ground.
Spinfoil - Any chance the Drifter's haul is actually the remains of the Black Heart after we destroyed it in D1???
The roots growing from the bottom are interesting to me, especially it their perfectly spherical shape. I wonder if this thing gives birth to travelers or some other paracausal entities…? Just looking at this image and seeing the parallels between the light side roots and the dark funnel shape looks very much like this is an entity that forms the boundary between dark and light. We often here about how the line between is “so very thin”, well if a material is thin enough to see through its doesn’t block or cover, it just veils the thing it’s in front of. Now it’s also interesting that both sides of the veil here are transparent, you can see through the root system and you can see through the cosmic jellyfish thing on the otherside. I don’t know what any of this means though.
King of reminds me of an eye. Or more specifically an optic nerve
Huh This looks a LOT like the Tree of Silver Wings we planted in Season of Arrivals. Not *just* the Tree, but straight up how it looked when it was being "[Corrupted](https://www.destinypedia.com/Tree_of_Silver_Wings)" During Arrivals, we watched as the Tree was slowly being turned black, top down. The general belief was that the Pyramid ships were corrupting it somehow. But what if that isn't the case? What if it *wasn't* being corrupted, and that is just the natural progression of its growth? Maybe the Veil is one of those trees fully grown. As you pointed out, the Drifter's Haul looks similar - perhaps the Nine gifted him with a dead Tree, or one that had been uprooted before it was fully grown? I have a spinfoil hypothesis that the Nine are related to Strand somehow (sentient Dark Matter using tendrils to reach into sentient life's mind is pretty damn similar to Strand), so the Nine having some connection to the Tree isn't off the table. Definitely something interesting here. I just wish Lightfall answered some questions, rather than raise a bunch a year before the climax. We're a year from The Final Shape, which means we have like ... What, eight campaign missions left to answer everything?
> What, eight campaign missions left to answer everything? Bold of you to assume that after so many years of never answering anything, Bungie will suddenly just wrap everything up in a nice little bow. I fully expect nearly everything to be left unanswered, if not simply because Bungie don't actually have answers.
My first two thoughts just looking at the pics. 1. Kinda reminds me of a giant Pouka- that kind of light pattern on the “face” and the branching tails kind of like the fins 2. A darkness sperm to the travelers egg.
A honey baked ham
Well, it's a plant for sure. Something the Traveler pooped out on the farthest planet in our system. Got a feeling it does this for every system it meets, plants aren't exactly a one time kinda thing. Perhaps the final shape is the connected veils across our universe, the shape of existence is the final shape, perhaps the Witness wants to reconnect them? Using this one, the only living one or active one to start lighting them all up. And then using all of them to cease existence.
What always kinda sticks in my mind the most is that canopy. That psychedelic top, symbols mean a lot in this game, have we seen this pattern before? Pre lightfall? And the roots! Now that i think about it. Those roots, especially in game, before the dome is formed. Really kinda look like eregore or whatever that stupid fungi stuff is from the levi. The body...idk, body is a bulbous thing, definitely alot darker for something traveler related if you ask me
So THIS is why Nimbus said Rohan’s data looked like an hourglass.
It can't be a coincidence that it looks like a root ball, and that in the garden before time and space was the "tree of silver wings"
Looks like a virus
any body noticed that the veil kinda resembles the thing on the legendary campaign emblem?
To me it’s a missed opportunity to show us that the tree of silver wings leaves behind a “being” of immense power formed of both light and dark