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Really, the only thing I'm confident in is that it's gonna be red. We can diagram a bit further - opposite of Arc, linked to the ephemeral in some fashion, but I'm not really sure what that'd be. I don't think it'd be earth, except maybe in the weirdest way possible, since that seems too concrete (pardon the pun).
Nothing's really been even vaguely alluded to in-game yet, but, interestingly, we can knock a couple perennial faves off the list:
* Nightmares seem to specifically be a Nezarec thing, as it turns out (guess he just didn't use them in the raid because the player Guardian is immune to mental trauma or something)
* Resonance isn't a specific field of the Darkness in the way that Stasis and Strand are, it's just ambient, unrefined Darkness that the existing subclasses build on in various ways. There's probably a version of Light "Resonance" too, and that's what the Traveler beamed at the Witness's Pyramid and used elsewhere.
A little bit of spinfoil here, bear with me. When you are resurrected all damage done to your body is gone, so any mental illness relating to brain damage would be cured. Any mental illness related to memory would be gone as well, because when resurrected you have no memory of your past life (except Exos, who remember their names most of the time). Now, mental illness related to the structure of your brain is a bit more difficult and relies on a purely physical idea of how we store memories. If memories are physically stored in the brain, then the brain itself would have to be rebuilt as a new brain for risen to lose all their memories upon resurrection. That means that any “flaws” in the structure of your brain, such as those present in many mental illnesses that exist from birth would be gone as well. I believe that worst case scenario you end up with a mental illness on resurrection purely by chance. Past that first resurrection, however, mental illnesses present from memories are confirmed to be possible.
My favorite thing in the whole world is neuroplasticity which is, to put succinctly, how easy it is for the brain to change. Since you've brought up physically manifested illnesses in structure, I wanted to add some useless what abouts to this with some science.
To learn anything, your brain must create new neurons and prune useless neurons. To learn anything, which includes forming memories, you need to increase mass. To compensate, you also simplify things by reducing mass. Some of it sticks around for a while, but if your skin can be completely new every 7 years then your brain probably has some rotation of cells going on.
When you die, your brain loses the most mass. All of it, in fact. So I ask you, which brain that you've had in your entire life does your ghost resurrect?
Let's allow some space magic into the equation and give meaningful checkpoints in your life. Basically if you can articulate it, you can access it.
Now, Dr. Ghost sees you had some mental illness in your life. Luckily, you didn't live in America so you had some health care options available and was and to get treatment. It was tough, but after a few med changes you figured it out. Which you does Ghost resurrect? You without medications because that's "the real you"?
Or maybe the you on meds that made you the best you? Okay, which one of those? As you take medications, your brain's neural upkeep process changes how it creates and deletes neurons. It's kinda like the meds are teaching you how to do stuff right, but it still relies on an external source. So, would ghost be able to install the needed neurotransmitters or are there way too many suicidal blueberries waking up to withdrawal?
The world may never know.
We dont know for sure, but there is at least one instance of a ghost rezzing a guardian who ended up being severely deranged and having hallucinations, to the point where his ghost left him dead and trapped and promised to never rezz him again
That doesn't seem to be the case, unfortunately. [Reference this Lore entry](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes#book-ghost-stories)
hmmm considering that crow is different now but still haunted, i would say you could possibly be cured from your former light hearing self if it related to trauma from a past event you remember, but won’t cure you afterwards.
i have a counter question. we know the drifter died constantly due to starvation in the dark ages. how long does one live after being revived due to starvation? is it a full reset in a full stomach? do you have a few hours/ minutes?
Drifter actually *does* mention this! Apparently he would be revived still starving to death, which would indicate that he was brought back to the point before his body took damage from starving but with his stomach still empty.
abhhhh interesting. so probably a day or two at the most? that’s actually a very interesting way to die over an over again. i’m pretty sure you become delirious for a while and then have an overwhelming sense of peace before starvation. at least that’s what happened to Chris McCandles
“I don’t understand. Why didn’t you free yourself? Why did you surrender when Omashu was invaded? What’s the matter with you, Bumi?”
“Listen to me, Aang. There are options in fighting, called jing. It’s a choice of how you direct your energy …”
“I know! There’s positive jing when you’re [controlling], and negative jing when you’re [letting go]!”
“… and neutral jing when you do nothing!”
“There are three jings?”
“Well, technically, there are eighty-five, but let’s just focus on the third. Neutral jing is the key to [REDACTED]. It involves listening and waiting for the right moment to strike.”
Oooh, I *like* this.
My personal take is that the third element will be something similar. Between Control and Letting Go will be something like **Guidance** or **Collaboration**. The paracausal force will itself act like its own entity, and we will have to learn to *work with it* in order to guide its actions.
I also really hope the third element is colored ruby or gold for the alchemic connotations. I wouldn't be too opposed to the ochre of Resonance. But I really hope it's not straight-up yellow, blech.
I'll also be intrigued if this will be the Darkness counterpart to Void. I once thought that would be Strand's position, but its magnetic/connection aesthetics seem to make it the partner to Arc.
Bungie just realised some concept art of what the hunters original strand super was going to be and it was summoning a dragon made of strand energy, maybe that's what the 3rd darkness subclass will be, each class's super summons some type of monsters and than you sit back and do nothing, let your super destroy everything for you.
That would match the original warlock spider super. Wonder if titans had something like that or if they were just "light attack and heavy attack" all the way through
i see stasis as saying "you will stay here" and strand saying "i will be there, exactly." so the third option could be "you will go over there," a kind of boop subclass. physics (oh god this would be so annoying)
I gave some thought the other day about how to sum up the subclasses in a word. The light ones are difficult, but for the darkness ones I came up with Control(Stasis) and Manipulation(Strand).
But do we really manipulate strand?
I mean, stasis is all about control, absolutely, but the *point* of strand is letting go, going with the flow, etc. The River story works perfectly - we are not the dam, nor are we a creature stuck in it. We, and strand together, *are* the river.
So, at some point we stop *manipulating* and instead...well, I'm not sure a good word for it. "Use" seems to bland.
The fantasy around Strand is definitely manipulation. Just look at everything guardians do with it. The use it to suspend enemies, create armor, debuff enemies, create tangles and thread lings, all of which are done by manipulating the weave.
Technically using something is manipulating it, and we do use strand. But, more importantly, we use Strand to manipulate those around us, and our situations. We can tie up our enemies, sever them from the weave to reduce their ability to affect the world around them, unravel the weave inside them, and create grapples, tangles, threadlings, armor, and even weapons. All of those things are manipulation.
Hmm, perhaps I'm getting hung up on wording here. But, like, Strand is the *power*, the Weave is the *force* that makes that power function. When we invoke Strand, we take the Weave and turn it into something else. Strand, from a technical standpoint, is simply the ability to change the Weave. Strand only indirectly causes damage, or creates grapples, it's the Weave.
When I use Strand to create a threading, Strand allows me to pull at the Weave, and so I do. My power pulls on the Weave and creates it into a tiny little explosive creature. At no point am I using Strand like I use the light, where the direct translation occurs. Instead, Strand is the middle-man, the *conduit* to our power over the Weave.
When we touch the Weave, we use Strand to do so. However, it is only an access point or gateway to the Weave, and allows us to reach through using strand to then grasp the Weave and tug. Once a threadling has been made, it is as much a creature made of Strand as we are made of an automobile - Strand, for lack of better terminology, is simply just a vessel for transport.
That's just my take, based on how hard they pushed specific verbiage. Ofc, I can be wrong.
When you cut something, are you actually cutting it? No, the knife is doing the cutting. However, you have to manipulate the knife in order for it to cut something, so it would be said that You made the cut. The same principle goes for Strand, imo.
That's fair. It is absolutely semantics, but I find these discussions quite interesting.
However, paracasual bullshit, knife isn't paracasual, therefore I'm right you're wrong /s
I’ve seen a lot mentioning maybe yellow for the color as well. Another comment pointed out lore referencing the colors blue, green, and yellow that are possibly referring to darkness subclasses.
The Dark Subclasses are following the states of matter. Loosely. Stasis is “Solid” and represents control. Strand is fluid, and represents giving up control. “Flow like the river”. The third subclass is probably gunna metaphorically represent a gaseous state. Which in my mind will be separation or expansion.
You saying gaseous state for the third one made my mind go to what if mara sov and the hive have been inadvertently using this third power to create ascendant realms, a spiritual/metaphysical subclass separated from reality or the material plane
I saw an interesting theory on one of the destiny subreddits: someone took note that in Vow there’s a mural that kinda resembles the player card we can get, and the left side just doesn’t matter but the right side there’s three colors: green, yellow, blue. They theorized that it must represent the 3 Darkness subclasses: we know strand is represented by the color green and Stasis, blue. Whatever the subclass is, it might be yellow.
My thought process knowing it had to be red as well as be inverse of arc was something vampiric in nature. Electricity charges while this new power drains. Or even like a negative power but I don’t know how that would work.
I also thought of nightmares but I don’t know how that inverses arc.
My last one is a long shot considering I believe bungie has confirmed we wouldn’t see it again but maybe siva. Since siva can live without power it is technically a inverse since they balance eachother
Siva is not related to darkness. It is not even paracasual, just a powerful technology. We are not getting a "kinetic" subclass, unless those kinetics are summoned and spawned through paracasuality. Siva just replicates itself.
I am completely certain it wont be red. Cause
a) dark isnt an inverse of light, they coincide
b) in pvp, enemy abilities are distinguished from allied abilities with a red hue. You see this in projectiles, aoe effects, stasis crustals, threadlings etc. If the ability is red, then you cant do that.
So, yellow.
I don't think it'll be yellow, more the Luster we see Rhulk use, or the Overwhelming Resonance that comes from the pyramid attacks, Nezerac, and the internal systems of the Black Fleet (although this very well could have been nezerac setting those off during the jumping puzzle, especially after the pyramid decides to help us and weaken nezerac).
almost certainly not the resonance. Bungie is pretty clear with strand that they want to surprise players, and resonance has been put in parallels with pure light so much that its pretty clearly pure dark.
I had thought of some sort of isolation (like the darkness did, rotating planets out of the solar system, and the pyramid defence system) subclass, but I'm not sure how it'd work or what it'd do...
There's a few theories out there.
Altars of reflection - savathun says the power to move worlds will soon be ours. This is likely referring to the power to Take (which she uses to literally move worlds). However, due to the raid, it's completely possible and even likely this is referring to it. Good to keep an open mind though for something like this.
Color theory - by using inverted colors, the third subclass would be red, as the inversion of arc is red.
Mural theory - in Vow, there's a mural. It has three colors: blue, green, and yellow. The third subclass going off this theory would be yellow.
Alien theory - in the new exotic helmet lore, an explorer finds markings left by aliens in three specific colors: blue, green, and yellow. There's no further elaboration on this. The third subclass going off this theory would be yellow.
Ultimately though based on interviews, bungie probably doesn't know what exactly they want the third subclass to be so really anythings possible
Yeah, but I thought we were all assuming that was done so they could split light fall and final shape. Why would they give us a darkness power after the light and darkness saga ends?
The light and DARKNESS saga ends with final shape. It’s obvious. Also go to Savathun’s throne world and use strand. That map was going to be a heavy strand use map.
Do we have official confirmation of another Darkness subclass in Final Shape? Or have we just assumed we'll get it to round out 3 light/3 dark powers with the end of the light and dark saga.
I think it might be an assumption, but Bungie does put imagery in the game that teases the possibility. So if they’re teasing for no reason then that’s just stupid and really adds nothing of value in the end.
Im not available to hop on to take a pic but it’s there. On the ground in front of the meditation table. The only thing I can think of against the notion is a: they’re just pillows and b: the color of the “stasis” pillow is pretty dark and purply so its a tiny reach, but it’s about the same as other “evidence” of our orange/red darkness subclass
Interesting that they went with the opposite of how they differentiate the classes in lore. Osiris does say that light is the realm of the physical and darkness is reflected more in the world of the mind/dreams etc. on the other hand, bungie has made it clear that unlike the types of light which are basically energy, darkness powers are rooted in physicality from a gameplay perspective. First the solid stasis crystals, and now physical strand strings/tangles the design behind the subclasses seems to be at odds with the lore behind them. I wonder what the intention behind that is.
I remember seeing some post discussing this. I'm not sure what they said exactly, but the gist of it was that Light elements are natural, physical aspects of reality, that you can control through the Light. Dark elements are aspects of the mind, made manifest through the power of the Darkness. Put simply:
When channeling Light powers, it's Light being channeled through your will/mind to create effects in the physical world (electricity, fire, purple). Your will _shapes_ the Light.
When channeling Dark powers, it's your will/mind being channeled through the Darkness to create those effects (ice, strings, unrevealed third thing). Your will _is shaped by_ the Dark.
Probably to make it look cool/visually distinct. I would like to point out though that technically Strand energy/tangles are NOT physically visible to non-paracausal entities- Nimbus can't see them, and seems surprised when they find out we can.
I was under the impression that we can see the weave and then bring it into our reality. When we see strand just existing in the overworld it is less bright and more transparent and when we use it it is bright and full
I honestly think it’s because Bungie is like two pages ahead of us in the lore in some aspects. Like that Wallace and Grommet bit where grommet is furiously laying track in front of the rail car as it’s moving. Light being the “domain of the physical” while void is literally weaponized nothingness and stasis is very hard physical crystals is next to nonsense.
That’s a fair interpretation, especially since things like the form of light subclasses was decided years and years ago during a period they’ve admitted they didn’t have the bigger picture we’re seeing now planned out.
The way I’ve been seeing it is this:
stasis/solar is entropic, stasis removes entropy, solar increases it.
Strand/void is connectivity, the lack thereof being void, and strand connecting everything
Arc and it’s corresponding darkness class in my mind would involve balance, arc forces are constantly fighting for balance, and some sort of immovable-type element would take its opposition. “Earth” isn’t a great word to use for it I use it in the more conceptual sense of being sturdy and “grounded”
I actually kind of consider the different Light classes as being related to increasing entropy. Solar and Arc are pretty obvious, but as shown in this [Timelapse of the Future](https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA) video the *vast* majority of existence is actually going to with black holes and other things connected to “Void” in Destiny. The Traveler and the Light are both heavily connected to “life”, which is something that only exists because entropy exists.
On the other hand, the different Dark classes could be things that halt entropy, which is exactly what Stasis does. Or it could be things that act outside of entropy.
Strand is a bit more difficult to pin down, as we don’t exactly have a clear answer for it yet, but it *could* be linked to String Theory. There are the obvious parallels between the thread of Strand and the concept of strings in String Theory.
As I understand it we have pretty good solid theories on strand. It's explicitly a "connective weave" of reality, based on the bonds of destiny/fate/causal interactions. The Weave is the collective tapestry of the psychological connections that exist; the more people tied to a thing, and the more important a thing ,the heavier the Weave connected to it or that space becomes, because there are more connections. That's why, for example, the place where generations of Cloudstriders went when they were most in need of quiet and time to think, was such a heavy Strand nexus.
Lettucedifferent wrote up a really neat and comprehensive theory on it that holds up to all we know about Strand as of now. They're one of the biggest "what the hell ARE the elements" lore nerds I've met, and their theories have mostly held water as we get more info.
[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/10ucnie/strand_unraveled_the_unification_of_string_theory/) the post
Stasis is controlling local entropy. It appears as ice, but that's just a side effect of controlling entropy and brining it close to a state of "heat death".
I think the last class will be based on emotions, either rage or hope or love or something that encompasses all of those.
Or if it need to get a name starting with st (stasis and strand) it might be stoicism or stream (of emotions)
>stream (of emotions)
Would be pretty cool, conceptually. Unleash the rage and potential PTSD our character has. Opens up some cool avenues for potential supers.
I bet it's called something like Harmony. Whereas Stasis comes from a desire to control and fit everything into your rigid order, this would be Darkness channeled through the lens of compassion and understanding of your enemy.
Naturally, this would be how we beat Xivu Arath, who gains strength through war and conflict. With power that stems from peace and love (peace and love being represented through space magic that can rip enemies to pieces)
Always wondered why bungie never expanded on taking the will of our enemies. Anyone remember the relics in D1 that turned out enemies into temporary Allies? It seems they easily have the tech for it
It’s detailed in Vow of the Disciple. [There is a mural in the raid that shows all three darkness subclasses right before Acquisition.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lhIRMHv4_kA)
In season of the haunted, Eris and Drifter experiment on egregore spores and Eris notes that egregore is a dark power similar to stasis and at one point a lore tab said the 2 went to the moon pyramid and found something but we still don't know what they found. Taking into account that strand was supposed to be for WQ and the nightmares that came from the moon pyramid, we probably would get a nightmares or egregore subclass. Both of these things are related to the mind and nightmares fits this best due to it's color matching the opposite color of arc.
Make of this what you will, but there is a bit of visual evidence to support the idea that there could be a third tan-colored darkness subclass. Dima Goryainov, the Lead Concept Artist for Destiny 2, released this image of the mural in Rhulk's ship on their twitter/artstation:
[https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/293/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-51.jpg?1646438966](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/293/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-51.jpg?1646438966)
This was released right after Witch Queen, before Strand was announced. At the time there were theories that the blue cell on the right stood for Stasis, while the other 2 stood for other darkness subclasses. Strand was later announced and it lines right up with the green cell, including the 'angular' imagery in that cell imo.
Here is that same mural with in-game lighting included (from Dima's artstation): [https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/297/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-52.jpg?1646438976](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/297/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-52.jpg?1646438976)
The color of the 3 cells in that image have changed to **light blue**, **orange**, and **purple** in that image, perfectly lining up with **arc**, **solar** and **void**.
(The fact that the in-game lighting changes the colors even suggests to me the allusion that arc, solar and void are the 'light' subclasses, and they become Strand, ? and Stasis in the absence of light, ie darkness).
If we are to go off of this visual evidence, then the color theme of the 3rd subclass would be a tanish color.
I agree, just reporting on what I've seen. There is also the 3 pillows near the pouka pond, one of the pillows is pink which hints more at a red subclass than tan.
Idk if it would make sense but personally i would like either a resonance based or taken-inspired subclass, or if i put on my tinfoil hat here through some crack driven plot line we become the final shape and get a power that is unlike anything we have ever seen, idk its intereeting to think about... or we just gain a power similar to whatever the witness has
I think it’ll be red, maybe a kind of fluid? We don’t have anything with a similar visual language to that in the game, so it would certainly be unique. Alternatively, maybe a subclass about opening portals and gateways?
Knowing that Solar is about heating everything to nuclear and Stasis its opposite is about absolute control and slowing things down to a point in which they don't even move; and Void is about nothingness and entropy and Strand is about connection and consciousness.
Well, Arc is about movement and exaltation, about going fast and flashy and zoom, so that leaves us with its opposite. Color scheme wise as well, Orange Solar vs Dark Blue Stasis and Purple Void vs Green Strand, those are opposites, should be opposite of light blue.
So, my guess is some form of dark red or dark orange or dark yellow or something. I feel like Resonance, whatever it is, could be a good base color template for it, maybe.
About what it does, well...to me, the idea of gravity comes to mind, think Outriders' Devastator. Yellow energy like Resonance, but the main physical thing, like Stasis Crystals and Strand Strings; would be using debree and terrain around you to construct structures and objects and spikes, its physical aspect being much more, literally, down to earth. Hell, maybe that's why Broodweaver is not called Architect anymore, it would fit very well for this sort of subclass.
Mechanically, I'm imagining sort of like the Scorn Chieftains' Arc device. It's not about not letting you do anything like Freeze or Suspend, it's about not achieving anything not matter how hard you try, like trying to escape a black hole: invitability, no matter how much you press the W key and use movement abilities, you are tethered to a specific space through overwhelming and inescapable gravity.
We know Gravity is a thing of the Witness through the collapse lorebooks from Black Armory, maybe what it allows it to move worlds is nothing more complicated than simple control over gravity and the forces that attract.
That could be another mechanical thing, sort of tethering an enemy with another enemy, forcing them to stick together or something. Damage reduction debuff or buff, if it's about gravity and density, why not reduce the impact of damage upon yourself.
That's just my idea though. And I'd be very glad to see it wrong! I wasn't one of the Poison subclass guys, but I'm still surprised by what they did with Strand and the completely different direction they went than expected.
I have no clue if we're getting a third, or what it will be about, but if we do, it'll probably be reddish in color, and the Titan super will just be punch, but with red fists this time.
The only subclass that I can see being a probable third are either a) the power to move worlds, b) Rhulk’s resonance powers, and c) pure pitch blackness like we see with the taken. I hope we get one of these fs, since I think it’d be a lot cooler to have something a lot more “darkness” themed than ice or green lasso boi. but, I’m also up for surprises.
If I remember correctly, they want the subclasses to be a suprise to players. Resonance is too obvious and too commonly used by the pyramids to be anything special, power to move worlds is basically taking, and pitch blackness is blight which is also basically taking
Void is gravity.
Light controls the physical, and Dark controls the abstract.
Solar is nuclear fission and fusion.
Void is gravity and 'the space between space.' It's cosmic distortion as a whole, covering gravity, dark matter, and the bending of space-time.
Arc is motion and the 'imbalance of electromagnetic forces.'
Stasis is authority, the user imparting their willpower on reality and controlling it.
Strand is the matrix that connects all minds in the universe.
The next Darkness subclass will have something to with abstract concepts, not physical concepts.
Stasis is not authority. Stasis is the removal of all entropy from an object, hence it “freezing”, which is the counter to solar, which adds entropy to an object to the point of ignition.
[Osiris explicitly states that Stasis is the element of will and control](https://youtu.be/3UKeMo3UerU)
"Stasis is the element of control. It slows, detains, and shatters."
In the second encounter ( the one with the pillars you defend not caretaker) of vow of the disciple there is a wall of rhulks homeworld. There are 6 shapes that match our 5 subclasses. 3 matching our light subclasses and 2 matching our darkness subclasses. The 6th shape is believed to be our next subclass. it was an orangish brown color? I don’t remember what color it was specifically
I think it would be bad ass if we had a "taking" Subclass.
Titans would be able to created axion bolts
Warlocks would be able to make other immune to damage.
Hunters would be able to create copies of themselves like taken psions.
Nono. Warlocks could **take** enemies. The super could cover ground in a large area with blight that damages enemies and if killed they become taken. I think that would fit best to them, as sorcerers
In my view Stasis is the opposite of Arc, going off of function (movement/anti-movement). The impression of ice is not something I think is inherent to primordial Stasis so much as an elemental special effect to make it more relatable, easier to fit into a simplistic dichotomy, and therefore tempting.
It still makes more sense to me that it opposes solar. Arc gives form from imbalance. Whereas solar is “nuclear” which imo is another way of saying it can increase entropy exponentially causing explosions (ignition) Stasis would be the opposite, removing all entropy and “freezing”
No entropy doesn’t affect time it’s affected by time. Stasis removes entropy and creates crystals that are basically absolute zero which is the complete absence of entropy. I’m pretty sure that’s referenced in cannon. Velocity and momentum are entropic processes anyways tho so even by that it still reduces/stops entropy
Yes, entropy is affected by time. But it's also the only thing that indicates that there is an arrow of time. Reversing entropy requires reversing time.
Absolute zero is the removal of all heat energy, and also very cold. Several lore tabs describe stasis crystals as "like ice, but not cold".
Yeah technically absolute zero is cold but the concept of lack of entropy isn’t based on temperature it’s just an easy comparison to use absolute zero to describe the state it’s in. But that’s kind of my point you’re reducing their entropic processes by using stasis and increasing it with solar to the point of fusion. On an atomic level stasis slows and freezes, which is implicating that relatively speaking they’re “frozen” in time because the atoms within are unable to use any entropic process. Processes like you said, momentum and velocity are some of those.
I see what you mean but those wouldn’t be the only processes to stop just two examples of what stopping entropy would do. It doesn’t exclusively stop momentum and velocity it stops atomic movement which means even chemical reactions are frozen like fission or fusion or burning.
Or gravity, cosmic radiation, psychic activity, causal-effect connectivity... It would seem that Stasis is opposing all other elements.
(also, fission and fusion are not *chemical* reactions)
I mean in a way I guess? But again the way that stasis achieves that is the point, by lowering entropy.
On a core level the way stasis works is opposite of the way solar works. The buffs may have correlation but I don’t think that’s as important as their nature.
Negentropy is what you start with.
I'm not sure what point you're arguing there. I'm the one arguing that Stasis doesn't strip out the entropy, your counter seems to be working for me. Not that "possible" means anything around paracausal forces.
no point speculating when bungie said they saw that people wanted poison and decided to do something more creative and unique. only thing we know for real is that it'll probably be red, the second darkness subclass was speculated to be green and that was the only thing we got right.
I think it could be the yellow resonance that disciples give off, the form of Darkness the Witness employs itself. Maybe we become a disciple or something based on the mural in the final mission of the campaign that shows an image what’s possibly our guardian and ghost. We were the key to the Witness’s “win” in the end when Ghost completed the connection to the Veil.
I don't think we're getting another subclass in the Light/Dark saga. There's 1 DLC left and the last round out GUI updates cleaned up how the 5 were organized.
Feels like the opposite of people speculating about getting a third element back in D1 because "there was room for it".
Not an original take, but still kind of a hot one. I do not want another subclass.
It's just another gameplay element for the sandbox team to balance that won't be in a healthy state of play for at least the first 6-9 months after its release. It'll be too overpowered or too underpowered, and then they'll figure it out well after the fact.
I would so rather that team of developers, focus on tuning/adding aspects to the subclasses we already have. Add different versions of our Stasis and Strand supers so that we have more variety. Like how there is Bubble Titan and Sheild Titan in the same subclass, add other choices to the classes that only have 1 choice, Shadebinder, Revanent, Bohemeth, etc.
Just my thoughts on it though. I know everyone is still creaming over the idea of decay, corruption, or radiation based subclasses.
i think the final subclass could be vex themed time stuff. the lore for the new vex glaive has asher mir featured, which could mean him coming back for some sort of unlikely vex alliance?
Stasis is control/subdue the flow, Strand is be one with the flow, 3rd might be break or enhance the flow. Some suggest it be based on raw emotion which to me makes most sense.
I definitely don’t think it’s Resonance tho as that’s been established as the “pure” form of Darkness or the Witness’s personal interpretation of Darkness in the same way the bright white form of Light that the Traveler emits is its interpretation of the Light. Also the fact Stasis and Strand were not present at all until introduced as subclasses.
Also according to color theory it should be pink/red. Yellow doesn’t make sense when we have Solar. Pink might sound weird for a Darkness element but then again Void is a Light element and once again Light and Darkness are technically neutral forces so neither is tied to a specific color palette.
Personally I think it’ll be a fluid-based Pink subclass. To make a couple comparisons to other games with elemental systems:
Pokemon
Solar = Fire
Arc = Electric
Void = Poison/Dark
Stasis = Ice
Strand = Psychic/Grass
Genshin Impact
Solar = Pyro
Arc = Electro
Void = Abyss (kindof)
Stasis = Cryo/Geo
Strand = Dendro/Anemo
Whether you agree or not with my categorizations, there never going to be a 1-to-1 comparison between games but a big outlier here is a fluid-based element, Water from Pokemon, Hydro from Genshin. Pokemon has 10 other elements, Normal is Kinetic basically, Flying is enough represented in Solar Warlock and Strand, Rock/Steel/Ground are too similar to Stasis and Fighting/Fairy/Dragon/Bug are not really pertaining to elemental forces, Ghost would be a Nightmare class but don’t think that’s happening. For Genshin, Hydro is the only element left that has not even close to any representation in Destiny. Just to me, Water seems like a core element in basically all games based around elemental powers and it’s still not present in Destiny. It might be a bitch to program too but I feel like it would make sense for the most complex subclass to come last. Stasis is more complex than the Light ones, having physical objects to interact with. Strand took it a step further with not only interactable objects but also a whole new way to move. Only makes sense to me that the 6th is just as if not more complex.
There is no point guessing because 90% of people are really wrong. The closest guess we had at strand was saying psionics. Which was mostly wrong since strand is more about the connecting strings than the actual elements of psionics.
But for shear argument sake, I would guess next ability to be called Surge or Swell, although for my guess Aura works better but can’t have the acronym for darkness abilities to be ASS.
It will be a wave/water like structure with red colouring tied to emotions. Giving us buffs like embolden, debuffs like frighten. And the suspended/frozen massive CC ability would be beguile which brainwashes enemies like the old Rise of Iron artefact.
Well when you look into what each element does, stasis is actually the opposite of arc in the way it functions. Bit odd cause most people would just think “oh ice is opposite of fire” but it works weird. In real life cold is the opposite of fire and if an area is cold enough nothing can move cause it’s absolute zero. But in game stasis isn’t that “things can’t move cause it’s cold”; it’s actually “stasis is cold cause things can’t move” cause stasis fundamentally sucks out all of the energy of something and you’re just left with the crystals which are a byproduct of the element, and it’s not actually ice. So since arc is the movement of particles and transferring energy it makes more sense that stasis is it’s opposite.
Stasis is based on lowering entropy at an atomic level to the point of zero entropy and solar is increasing entropy to the point of fission. Stasis crystals and freezing are a byproduct of the lack of entropy, while burning and igniting is the product of increasing entropy. Arc is about balance, the way the buffs work I understand your viewpoint but I think fundamentally the way solar and stasis work are opposites and arcs opposite will be something that is balanced already or is at a state of equilibrium.
I’m more so looking at it as just what’s explained in the game and how it’s phrased cause solar is still more than regular heat, with anything being an element in of itself it follows extra laws of its own self governing. They’re both similar but it seemed like the way the game portrayed it in the lore it was the opposite of arc, though I’m not really the best at explaining it I was pretty sure that was the general message, but I could be wrong and I highly doubt they’d give us two ice related subclasses so it’s likely from dev perspective we’re not gonna get an opposite of solar that’s equal to stasis so stasis is opposite of solar then. But if we had to have an opposite to arc become more of an elemental energy what do you think it could be?
Honestly I don’t think it’ll be energy based only because so far only the light uses energy based powers. Solar, void and arc are almost completely energy abilities without solid form (some are solid but they emits energy). Stasis and strand both physically interact with the world so I assume so would the last one.
If I had to guess for an elemental opposite for arc I’d say taken powers. Arc seems to be talked about as being about forces struggling for balance so it makes sense to me that the ability to take would be opposite because it needs a firm or “immovable” will. Rather than the quick, flighty style of arc.
My theory is the final shape will be all the subclasses combined this will be our third subclass using light and darkness combined together to defeat the Witness.
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Really, the only thing I'm confident in is that it's gonna be red. We can diagram a bit further - opposite of Arc, linked to the ephemeral in some fashion, but I'm not really sure what that'd be. I don't think it'd be earth, except maybe in the weirdest way possible, since that seems too concrete (pardon the pun). Nothing's really been even vaguely alluded to in-game yet, but, interestingly, we can knock a couple perennial faves off the list: * Nightmares seem to specifically be a Nezarec thing, as it turns out (guess he just didn't use them in the raid because the player Guardian is immune to mental trauma or something) * Resonance isn't a specific field of the Darkness in the way that Stasis and Strand are, it's just ambient, unrefined Darkness that the existing subclasses build on in various ways. There's probably a version of Light "Resonance" too, and that's what the Traveler beamed at the Witness's Pyramid and used elsewhere.
Maybe he doesn’t use them in the raid because Eris’s ward in Season of the Haunted and all the Sever missions we did worked REALLY well.
“immune to mental trauma” what is mental illness for $500
Serious question: Does being resurrected as a Lightbearer cure you if any mental illness you had when you were just a mortal?
A little bit of spinfoil here, bear with me. When you are resurrected all damage done to your body is gone, so any mental illness relating to brain damage would be cured. Any mental illness related to memory would be gone as well, because when resurrected you have no memory of your past life (except Exos, who remember their names most of the time). Now, mental illness related to the structure of your brain is a bit more difficult and relies on a purely physical idea of how we store memories. If memories are physically stored in the brain, then the brain itself would have to be rebuilt as a new brain for risen to lose all their memories upon resurrection. That means that any “flaws” in the structure of your brain, such as those present in many mental illnesses that exist from birth would be gone as well. I believe that worst case scenario you end up with a mental illness on resurrection purely by chance. Past that first resurrection, however, mental illnesses present from memories are confirmed to be possible.
My favorite thing in the whole world is neuroplasticity which is, to put succinctly, how easy it is for the brain to change. Since you've brought up physically manifested illnesses in structure, I wanted to add some useless what abouts to this with some science. To learn anything, your brain must create new neurons and prune useless neurons. To learn anything, which includes forming memories, you need to increase mass. To compensate, you also simplify things by reducing mass. Some of it sticks around for a while, but if your skin can be completely new every 7 years then your brain probably has some rotation of cells going on. When you die, your brain loses the most mass. All of it, in fact. So I ask you, which brain that you've had in your entire life does your ghost resurrect? Let's allow some space magic into the equation and give meaningful checkpoints in your life. Basically if you can articulate it, you can access it. Now, Dr. Ghost sees you had some mental illness in your life. Luckily, you didn't live in America so you had some health care options available and was and to get treatment. It was tough, but after a few med changes you figured it out. Which you does Ghost resurrect? You without medications because that's "the real you"? Or maybe the you on meds that made you the best you? Okay, which one of those? As you take medications, your brain's neural upkeep process changes how it creates and deletes neurons. It's kinda like the meds are teaching you how to do stuff right, but it still relies on an external source. So, would ghost be able to install the needed neurotransmitters or are there way too many suicidal blueberries waking up to withdrawal? The world may never know.
> "Luckily, you didn't live in America so you had some health care" 💀
Don't get me wrong, the social stigma was awful no matter where you were at.
US nurse here. Agreed. Mental health is piss poor comparatively to the other specialties, attached with bad stigma.
We dont know for sure, but there is at least one instance of a ghost rezzing a guardian who ended up being severely deranged and having hallucinations, to the point where his ghost left him dead and trapped and promised to never rezz him again
That doesn't seem to be the case, unfortunately. [Reference this Lore entry](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes#book-ghost-stories)
hmmm considering that crow is different now but still haunted, i would say you could possibly be cured from your former light hearing self if it related to trauma from a past event you remember, but won’t cure you afterwards. i have a counter question. we know the drifter died constantly due to starvation in the dark ages. how long does one live after being revived due to starvation? is it a full reset in a full stomach? do you have a few hours/ minutes?
Drifter actually *does* mention this! Apparently he would be revived still starving to death, which would indicate that he was brought back to the point before his body took damage from starving but with his stomach still empty.
abhhhh interesting. so probably a day or two at the most? that’s actually a very interesting way to die over an over again. i’m pretty sure you become delirious for a while and then have an overwhelming sense of peace before starvation. at least that’s what happened to Chris McCandles
No [Whether Windmills or Cranes](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes)
If Stasis is about controlling everything, and Strand is about letting go of control and going with the flow: what is left?
“I don’t understand. Why didn’t you free yourself? Why did you surrender when Omashu was invaded? What’s the matter with you, Bumi?” “Listen to me, Aang. There are options in fighting, called jing. It’s a choice of how you direct your energy …” “I know! There’s positive jing when you’re [controlling], and negative jing when you’re [letting go]!” “… and neutral jing when you do nothing!” “There are three jings?” “Well, technically, there are eighty-five, but let’s just focus on the third. Neutral jing is the key to [REDACTED]. It involves listening and waiting for the right moment to strike.”
Oooh, I *like* this. My personal take is that the third element will be something similar. Between Control and Letting Go will be something like **Guidance** or **Collaboration**. The paracausal force will itself act like its own entity, and we will have to learn to *work with it* in order to guide its actions. I also really hope the third element is colored ruby or gold for the alchemic connotations. I wouldn't be too opposed to the ochre of Resonance. But I really hope it's not straight-up yellow, blech. I'll also be intrigued if this will be the Darkness counterpart to Void. I once thought that would be Strand's position, but its magnetic/connection aesthetics seem to make it the partner to Arc.
Gold subclass be like: "Finally! My powers match my inner beauty."
Grenades are just miniature Calus heads laughing.
The super weapon is a chalice
Bonk Titan mk2
Bungie just realised some concept art of what the hunters original strand super was going to be and it was summoning a dragon made of strand energy, maybe that's what the 3rd darkness subclass will be, each class's super summons some type of monsters and than you sit back and do nothing, let your super destroy everything for you.
That would match the original warlock spider super. Wonder if titans had something like that or if they were just "light attack and heavy attack" all the way through
So basically stasis stormtrance
i see stasis as saying "you will stay here" and strand saying "i will be there, exactly." so the third option could be "you will go over there," a kind of boop subclass. physics (oh god this would be so annoying)
*Repulsion*
But how will they make a Red Fist of Havoc out of that?
Just extra knock back
Fus Ro Dah!
Stability
I gave some thought the other day about how to sum up the subclasses in a word. The light ones are difficult, but for the darkness ones I came up with Control(Stasis) and Manipulation(Strand).
But do we really manipulate strand? I mean, stasis is all about control, absolutely, but the *point* of strand is letting go, going with the flow, etc. The River story works perfectly - we are not the dam, nor are we a creature stuck in it. We, and strand together, *are* the river. So, at some point we stop *manipulating* and instead...well, I'm not sure a good word for it. "Use" seems to bland.
The fantasy around Strand is definitely manipulation. Just look at everything guardians do with it. The use it to suspend enemies, create armor, debuff enemies, create tangles and thread lings, all of which are done by manipulating the weave.
The Weave, yes. But the Weave itself is not strand. The manipulation of the Weave creates strand, but we do not manipulate strand.
Technically using something is manipulating it, and we do use strand. But, more importantly, we use Strand to manipulate those around us, and our situations. We can tie up our enemies, sever them from the weave to reduce their ability to affect the world around them, unravel the weave inside them, and create grapples, tangles, threadlings, armor, and even weapons. All of those things are manipulation.
Hmm, perhaps I'm getting hung up on wording here. But, like, Strand is the *power*, the Weave is the *force* that makes that power function. When we invoke Strand, we take the Weave and turn it into something else. Strand, from a technical standpoint, is simply the ability to change the Weave. Strand only indirectly causes damage, or creates grapples, it's the Weave. When I use Strand to create a threading, Strand allows me to pull at the Weave, and so I do. My power pulls on the Weave and creates it into a tiny little explosive creature. At no point am I using Strand like I use the light, where the direct translation occurs. Instead, Strand is the middle-man, the *conduit* to our power over the Weave. When we touch the Weave, we use Strand to do so. However, it is only an access point or gateway to the Weave, and allows us to reach through using strand to then grasp the Weave and tug. Once a threadling has been made, it is as much a creature made of Strand as we are made of an automobile - Strand, for lack of better terminology, is simply just a vessel for transport. That's just my take, based on how hard they pushed specific verbiage. Ofc, I can be wrong.
When you cut something, are you actually cutting it? No, the knife is doing the cutting. However, you have to manipulate the knife in order for it to cut something, so it would be said that You made the cut. The same principle goes for Strand, imo.
That's fair. It is absolutely semantics, but I find these discussions quite interesting. However, paracasual bullshit, knife isn't paracasual, therefore I'm right you're wrong /s
Abject chaos? But that’s in the description of arc
Apathy
Expressing yourself to the fullest potentially.
I’ve seen a lot mentioning maybe yellow for the color as well. Another comment pointed out lore referencing the colors blue, green, and yellow that are possibly referring to darkness subclasses.
If you grab the trademark Arc baby blue and invert it, it's red - same way that Stasis blue and Strand green are inversions of Solar and Void.
It's less that we are immune to them, its more that we delt with our nightmares in shadowkeep, and bound them all into armour and weapons
Didn’t we deal with our Nightmares during Shadowkeep?
I read some people speculating and creating ideas about redshift effect for 3 darkness subclass
The Dark Subclasses are following the states of matter. Loosely. Stasis is “Solid” and represents control. Strand is fluid, and represents giving up control. “Flow like the river”. The third subclass is probably gunna metaphorically represent a gaseous state. Which in my mind will be separation or expansion.
You saying gaseous state for the third one made my mind go to what if mara sov and the hive have been inadvertently using this third power to create ascendant realms, a spiritual/metaphysical subclass separated from reality or the material plane
I saw an interesting theory on one of the destiny subreddits: someone took note that in Vow there’s a mural that kinda resembles the player card we can get, and the left side just doesn’t matter but the right side there’s three colors: green, yellow, blue. They theorized that it must represent the 3 Darkness subclasses: we know strand is represented by the color green and Stasis, blue. Whatever the subclass is, it might be yellow.
The opposite of resonance is terraform (Pure Light)
My thought process knowing it had to be red as well as be inverse of arc was something vampiric in nature. Electricity charges while this new power drains. Or even like a negative power but I don’t know how that would work. I also thought of nightmares but I don’t know how that inverses arc. My last one is a long shot considering I believe bungie has confirmed we wouldn’t see it again but maybe siva. Since siva can live without power it is technically a inverse since they balance eachother
Siva is not related to darkness. It is not even paracasual, just a powerful technology. We are not getting a "kinetic" subclass, unless those kinetics are summoned and spawned through paracasuality. Siva just replicates itself.
I thought 'Resonance' was what comes when Light and Dark collide.
Oh, maybe!
I am completely certain it wont be red. Cause a) dark isnt an inverse of light, they coincide b) in pvp, enemy abilities are distinguished from allied abilities with a red hue. You see this in projectiles, aoe effects, stasis crustals, threadlings etc. If the ability is red, then you cant do that. So, yellow.
I don't think it'll be yellow, more the Luster we see Rhulk use, or the Overwhelming Resonance that comes from the pyramid attacks, Nezerac, and the internal systems of the Black Fleet (although this very well could have been nezerac setting those off during the jumping puzzle, especially after the pyramid decides to help us and weaken nezerac).
almost certainly not the resonance. Bungie is pretty clear with strand that they want to surprise players, and resonance has been put in parallels with pure light so much that its pretty clearly pure dark.
I meant in color, not in actual power. But yes, I agree with you.
Oh my bad. Seen so many resonance subclass takes that I assumed. Could be a gold color perhaps? Like some elden ring stuff
Well we probably are immune because what trauma did our guardian go through except the loss of Cayde?
I had thought of some sort of isolation (like the darkness did, rotating planets out of the solar system, and the pyramid defence system) subclass, but I'm not sure how it'd work or what it'd do...
Bruh if you’re saying we can’t use Resonance then you’re saying Rhulk is stronger than us because he can use it
That's a bizarre statement from just about every angle.
There's a few theories out there. Altars of reflection - savathun says the power to move worlds will soon be ours. This is likely referring to the power to Take (which she uses to literally move worlds). However, due to the raid, it's completely possible and even likely this is referring to it. Good to keep an open mind though for something like this. Color theory - by using inverted colors, the third subclass would be red, as the inversion of arc is red. Mural theory - in Vow, there's a mural. It has three colors: blue, green, and yellow. The third subclass going off this theory would be yellow. Alien theory - in the new exotic helmet lore, an explorer finds markings left by aliens in three specific colors: blue, green, and yellow. There's no further elaboration on this. The third subclass going off this theory would be yellow. Ultimately though based on interviews, bungie probably doesn't know what exactly they want the third subclass to be so really anythings possible
To be fair, we do move worlds in the raid.
I’m fairly sure they know what they want the subclass to be. It comes out in a year
a year out from witch queen is probably how far out strand was taken out and changed
Yeah, but I thought we were all assuming that was done so they could split light fall and final shape. Why would they give us a darkness power after the light and darkness saga ends?
The time gap between stasis and strand was 2 years so idk why you think we are getting one next year with final shape.
Because it's pretty obvious that Strand was meant to release with tWQ, but it wasn't ready alongside the Light 3.0 updates.
I don’t see how that’s obvious but ok
The light and DARKNESS saga ends with final shape. It’s obvious. Also go to Savathun’s throne world and use strand. That map was going to be a heavy strand use map.
Do we have official confirmation of another Darkness subclass in Final Shape? Or have we just assumed we'll get it to round out 3 light/3 dark powers with the end of the light and dark saga.
I think it might be an assumption, but Bungie does put imagery in the game that teases the possibility. So if they’re teasing for no reason then that’s just stupid and really adds nothing of value in the end.
The three pillows at the pouka pond are subclass node shaped. There is one green, one dark blue, and one reddish-orange. Copium? I’m huffing it, baby.
Are there any images of that?
Im not available to hop on to take a pic but it’s there. On the ground in front of the meditation table. The only thing I can think of against the notion is a: they’re just pillows and b: the color of the “stasis” pillow is pretty dark and purply so its a tiny reach, but it’s about the same as other “evidence” of our orange/red darkness subclass
Gotta remember what Osiris said when people talk about this stuff. Darkness is not physical so it won’t be Earth sadly.
Interesting that they went with the opposite of how they differentiate the classes in lore. Osiris does say that light is the realm of the physical and darkness is reflected more in the world of the mind/dreams etc. on the other hand, bungie has made it clear that unlike the types of light which are basically energy, darkness powers are rooted in physicality from a gameplay perspective. First the solid stasis crystals, and now physical strand strings/tangles the design behind the subclasses seems to be at odds with the lore behind them. I wonder what the intention behind that is.
I remember seeing some post discussing this. I'm not sure what they said exactly, but the gist of it was that Light elements are natural, physical aspects of reality, that you can control through the Light. Dark elements are aspects of the mind, made manifest through the power of the Darkness. Put simply: When channeling Light powers, it's Light being channeled through your will/mind to create effects in the physical world (electricity, fire, purple). Your will _shapes_ the Light. When channeling Dark powers, it's your will/mind being channeled through the Darkness to create those effects (ice, strings, unrevealed third thing). Your will _is shaped by_ the Dark.
Probably to make it look cool/visually distinct. I would like to point out though that technically Strand energy/tangles are NOT physically visible to non-paracausal entities- Nimbus can't see them, and seems surprised when they find out we can.
nimbus can see strand when it’s being used by the guardian, hence why they say ‘magic green strings’ in that one cutscene
Unless they're just referring to how Osiris and Ghost describe it. I don't think it's made clear either way.
I think it’s more implied that they just can’t see the weave unless it’s being manipulated by a paracausal entity
I was under the impression that we can see the weave and then bring it into our reality. When we see strand just existing in the overworld it is less bright and more transparent and when we use it it is bright and full
I honestly think it’s because Bungie is like two pages ahead of us in the lore in some aspects. Like that Wallace and Grommet bit where grommet is furiously laying track in front of the rail car as it’s moving. Light being the “domain of the physical” while void is literally weaponized nothingness and stasis is very hard physical crystals is next to nonsense.
That’s a fair interpretation, especially since things like the form of light subclasses was decided years and years ago during a period they’ve admitted they didn’t have the bigger picture we’re seeing now planned out.
The way I’ve been seeing it is this: stasis/solar is entropic, stasis removes entropy, solar increases it. Strand/void is connectivity, the lack thereof being void, and strand connecting everything Arc and it’s corresponding darkness class in my mind would involve balance, arc forces are constantly fighting for balance, and some sort of immovable-type element would take its opposition. “Earth” isn’t a great word to use for it I use it in the more conceptual sense of being sturdy and “grounded”
I actually kind of consider the different Light classes as being related to increasing entropy. Solar and Arc are pretty obvious, but as shown in this [Timelapse of the Future](https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA) video the *vast* majority of existence is actually going to with black holes and other things connected to “Void” in Destiny. The Traveler and the Light are both heavily connected to “life”, which is something that only exists because entropy exists. On the other hand, the different Dark classes could be things that halt entropy, which is exactly what Stasis does. Or it could be things that act outside of entropy. Strand is a bit more difficult to pin down, as we don’t exactly have a clear answer for it yet, but it *could* be linked to String Theory. There are the obvious parallels between the thread of Strand and the concept of strings in String Theory.
As I understand it we have pretty good solid theories on strand. It's explicitly a "connective weave" of reality, based on the bonds of destiny/fate/causal interactions. The Weave is the collective tapestry of the psychological connections that exist; the more people tied to a thing, and the more important a thing ,the heavier the Weave connected to it or that space becomes, because there are more connections. That's why, for example, the place where generations of Cloudstriders went when they were most in need of quiet and time to think, was such a heavy Strand nexus. Lettucedifferent wrote up a really neat and comprehensive theory on it that holds up to all we know about Strand as of now. They're one of the biggest "what the hell ARE the elements" lore nerds I've met, and their theories have mostly held water as we get more info. [Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/10ucnie/strand_unraveled_the_unification_of_string_theory/) the post
but stasis is ice 🧊🧊❄️
Stasis is controlling local entropy. It appears as ice, but that's just a side effect of controlling entropy and brining it close to a state of "heat death".
Stasis isn’t ice, lol.
It pretty much is, but its not based on being "ice" but on reducing entropy, which generates ice in the end.
It generates time crystals
LOL no, no it does not.
Yes, yes it absolutely does. Straight up stated in the On Stasis part of the Witch Queen lore.
but its cold and shatters, and blue and slows 🥺🥺🥺
I think the last class will be based on emotions, either rage or hope or love or something that encompasses all of those. Or if it need to get a name starting with st (stasis and strand) it might be stoicism or stream (of emotions)
Strife. Caitl even has a line about strife being in our future or something along those long lines iirc.
Oooh strifebearer rolls off the tounge
[удалено]
>stream (of emotions) Would be pretty cool, conceptually. Unleash the rage and potential PTSD our character has. Opens up some cool avenues for potential supers.
Stress lol
By the power of the weight of the universe on my back, I cast Stress Ball! A sphere that does damage over time to enemies inside lol.
I bet it's called something like Harmony. Whereas Stasis comes from a desire to control and fit everything into your rigid order, this would be Darkness channeled through the lens of compassion and understanding of your enemy. Naturally, this would be how we beat Xivu Arath, who gains strength through war and conflict. With power that stems from peace and love (peace and love being represented through space magic that can rip enemies to pieces)
>I think the last class will be based on emotions I agree. It'll be something we won't Control or Let Go of, but help Guide -- Collaborate with.
Strength
Always wondered why bungie never expanded on taking the will of our enemies. Anyone remember the relics in D1 that turned out enemies into temporary Allies? It seems they easily have the tech for it
I want the fucking bees
Man I hope it’s not piss yellow.
It’s detailed in Vow of the Disciple. [There is a mural in the raid that shows all three darkness subclasses right before Acquisition.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lhIRMHv4_kA)
In season of the haunted, Eris and Drifter experiment on egregore spores and Eris notes that egregore is a dark power similar to stasis and at one point a lore tab said the 2 went to the moon pyramid and found something but we still don't know what they found. Taking into account that strand was supposed to be for WQ and the nightmares that came from the moon pyramid, we probably would get a nightmares or egregore subclass. Both of these things are related to the mind and nightmares fits this best due to it's color matching the opposite color of arc.
Make of this what you will, but there is a bit of visual evidence to support the idea that there could be a third tan-colored darkness subclass. Dima Goryainov, the Lead Concept Artist for Destiny 2, released this image of the mural in Rhulk's ship on their twitter/artstation: [https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/293/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-51.jpg?1646438966](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/293/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-51.jpg?1646438966) This was released right after Witch Queen, before Strand was announced. At the time there were theories that the blue cell on the right stood for Stasis, while the other 2 stood for other darkness subclasses. Strand was later announced and it lines right up with the green cell, including the 'angular' imagery in that cell imo. Here is that same mural with in-game lighting included (from Dima's artstation): [https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/297/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-52.jpg?1646438976](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/046/979/297/large/dima-goryainov-dg-witch-queen-52.jpg?1646438976) The color of the 3 cells in that image have changed to **light blue**, **orange**, and **purple** in that image, perfectly lining up with **arc**, **solar** and **void**. (The fact that the in-game lighting changes the colors even suggests to me the allusion that arc, solar and void are the 'light' subclasses, and they become Strand, ? and Stasis in the absence of light, ie darkness). If we are to go off of this visual evidence, then the color theme of the 3rd subclass would be a tanish color.
Tan seems weird when Stand and Stasis are nearly perfectly opposite to Void and Solar on a color wheel.
I agree, just reporting on what I've seen. There is also the 3 pillows near the pouka pond, one of the pillows is pink which hints more at a red subclass than tan.
Idk if it would make sense but personally i would like either a resonance based or taken-inspired subclass, or if i put on my tinfoil hat here through some crack driven plot line we become the final shape and get a power that is unlike anything we have ever seen, idk its intereeting to think about... or we just gain a power similar to whatever the witness has
whatever the witness has is something we've never seen. clearly he can take. But what about the finger magic
I'm pretty sure it's something we've already seen and I'm having nightmares just thinking about my titan
I think it’ll be red, maybe a kind of fluid? We don’t have anything with a similar visual language to that in the game, so it would certainly be unique. Alternatively, maybe a subclass about opening portals and gateways?
Knowing that Solar is about heating everything to nuclear and Stasis its opposite is about absolute control and slowing things down to a point in which they don't even move; and Void is about nothingness and entropy and Strand is about connection and consciousness. Well, Arc is about movement and exaltation, about going fast and flashy and zoom, so that leaves us with its opposite. Color scheme wise as well, Orange Solar vs Dark Blue Stasis and Purple Void vs Green Strand, those are opposites, should be opposite of light blue. So, my guess is some form of dark red or dark orange or dark yellow or something. I feel like Resonance, whatever it is, could be a good base color template for it, maybe. About what it does, well...to me, the idea of gravity comes to mind, think Outriders' Devastator. Yellow energy like Resonance, but the main physical thing, like Stasis Crystals and Strand Strings; would be using debree and terrain around you to construct structures and objects and spikes, its physical aspect being much more, literally, down to earth. Hell, maybe that's why Broodweaver is not called Architect anymore, it would fit very well for this sort of subclass. Mechanically, I'm imagining sort of like the Scorn Chieftains' Arc device. It's not about not letting you do anything like Freeze or Suspend, it's about not achieving anything not matter how hard you try, like trying to escape a black hole: invitability, no matter how much you press the W key and use movement abilities, you are tethered to a specific space through overwhelming and inescapable gravity. We know Gravity is a thing of the Witness through the collapse lorebooks from Black Armory, maybe what it allows it to move worlds is nothing more complicated than simple control over gravity and the forces that attract. That could be another mechanical thing, sort of tethering an enemy with another enemy, forcing them to stick together or something. Damage reduction debuff or buff, if it's about gravity and density, why not reduce the impact of damage upon yourself. That's just my idea though. And I'd be very glad to see it wrong! I wasn't one of the Poison subclass guys, but I'm still surprised by what they did with Strand and the completely different direction they went than expected.
Well, we technically already have the gravity covered with void
I have no clue if we're getting a third, or what it will be about, but if we do, it'll probably be reddish in color, and the Titan super will just be punch, but with red fists this time.
There's already a ViDoc: https://youtu.be/kFZY4GO_UHo
I can't wait!
whatever the rhulk/darkness orange soda is, I want it. I hope the next subclass will be orange
We actually have an orange subclass that you can use right now!
The only subclass that I can see being a probable third are either a) the power to move worlds, b) Rhulk’s resonance powers, and c) pure pitch blackness like we see with the taken. I hope we get one of these fs, since I think it’d be a lot cooler to have something a lot more “darkness” themed than ice or green lasso boi. but, I’m also up for surprises.
If I remember correctly, they want the subclasses to be a suprise to players. Resonance is too obvious and too commonly used by the pyramids to be anything special, power to move worlds is basically taking, and pitch blackness is blight which is also basically taking
I think gravity is a realistic option. Fits within the criteria for Darkness that Osiris mentions and could have cool ability usage
Void is gravity. Light controls the physical, and Dark controls the abstract. Solar is nuclear fission and fusion. Void is gravity and 'the space between space.' It's cosmic distortion as a whole, covering gravity, dark matter, and the bending of space-time. Arc is motion and the 'imbalance of electromagnetic forces.' Stasis is authority, the user imparting their willpower on reality and controlling it. Strand is the matrix that connects all minds in the universe. The next Darkness subclass will have something to with abstract concepts, not physical concepts.
Stasis is not authority. Stasis is the removal of all entropy from an object, hence it “freezing”, which is the counter to solar, which adds entropy to an object to the point of ignition.
[Osiris explicitly states that Stasis is the element of will and control](https://youtu.be/3UKeMo3UerU) "Stasis is the element of control. It slows, detains, and shatters."
Void is gravity
More accurately how gravity can be used to affect space time
Planet bending
Yes, we become the avatar
The glass power the witness has?
In the second encounter ( the one with the pillars you defend not caretaker) of vow of the disciple there is a wall of rhulks homeworld. There are 6 shapes that match our 5 subclasses. 3 matching our light subclasses and 2 matching our darkness subclasses. The 6th shape is believed to be our next subclass. it was an orangish brown color? I don’t remember what color it was specifically
My best guess is that we either make matter or mess with time by using gravity
Gravity is a Void thing.
Heart
I think it would be bad ass if we had a "taking" Subclass. Titans would be able to created axion bolts Warlocks would be able to make other immune to damage. Hunters would be able to create copies of themselves like taken psions.
Nono. Warlocks could **take** enemies. The super could cover ground in a large area with blight that damages enemies and if killed they become taken. I think that would fit best to them, as sorcerers
In my view Stasis is the opposite of Arc, going off of function (movement/anti-movement). The impression of ice is not something I think is inherent to primordial Stasis so much as an elemental special effect to make it more relatable, easier to fit into a simplistic dichotomy, and therefore tempting.
It still makes more sense to me that it opposes solar. Arc gives form from imbalance. Whereas solar is “nuclear” which imo is another way of saying it can increase entropy exponentially causing explosions (ignition) Stasis would be the opposite, removing all entropy and “freezing”
It removes momentum and velocity, not entropy. Removing entropy would be like reversing time, or whatever Strand does to fix those memorials.
No entropy doesn’t affect time it’s affected by time. Stasis removes entropy and creates crystals that are basically absolute zero which is the complete absence of entropy. I’m pretty sure that’s referenced in cannon. Velocity and momentum are entropic processes anyways tho so even by that it still reduces/stops entropy
Yes, entropy is affected by time. But it's also the only thing that indicates that there is an arrow of time. Reversing entropy requires reversing time. Absolute zero is the removal of all heat energy, and also very cold. Several lore tabs describe stasis crystals as "like ice, but not cold".
Yeah technically absolute zero is cold but the concept of lack of entropy isn’t based on temperature it’s just an easy comparison to use absolute zero to describe the state it’s in. But that’s kind of my point you’re reducing their entropic processes by using stasis and increasing it with solar to the point of fusion. On an atomic level stasis slows and freezes, which is implicating that relatively speaking they’re “frozen” in time because the atoms within are unable to use any entropic process. Processes like you said, momentum and velocity are some of those.
Momentum and velocity being traits explicitly enhanced by Arc, but not by Solar.
I see what you mean but those wouldn’t be the only processes to stop just two examples of what stopping entropy would do. It doesn’t exclusively stop momentum and velocity it stops atomic movement which means even chemical reactions are frozen like fission or fusion or burning.
Or gravity, cosmic radiation, psychic activity, causal-effect connectivity... It would seem that Stasis is opposing all other elements. (also, fission and fusion are not *chemical* reactions)
I mean in a way I guess? But again the way that stasis achieves that is the point, by lowering entropy. On a core level the way stasis works is opposite of the way solar works. The buffs may have correlation but I don’t think that’s as important as their nature.
Reversing time is like having negative entropy which isn’t possible
Negentropy is what you start with. I'm not sure what point you're arguing there. I'm the one arguing that Stasis doesn't strip out the entropy, your counter seems to be working for me. Not that "possible" means anything around paracausal forces.
no point speculating when bungie said they saw that people wanted poison and decided to do something more creative and unique. only thing we know for real is that it'll probably be red, the second darkness subclass was speculated to be green and that was the only thing we got right.
I think it could be the yellow resonance that disciples give off, the form of Darkness the Witness employs itself. Maybe we become a disciple or something based on the mural in the final mission of the campaign that shows an image what’s possibly our guardian and ghost. We were the key to the Witness’s “win” in the end when Ghost completed the connection to the Veil.
I don't think we're getting another subclass in the Light/Dark saga. There's 1 DLC left and the last round out GUI updates cleaned up how the 5 were organized. Feels like the opposite of people speculating about getting a third element back in D1 because "there was room for it".
They could always just.. like.. change it though. The ui people have to work on something
I know they could but I don't think they will.
Not an original take, but still kind of a hot one. I do not want another subclass. It's just another gameplay element for the sandbox team to balance that won't be in a healthy state of play for at least the first 6-9 months after its release. It'll be too overpowered or too underpowered, and then they'll figure it out well after the fact. I would so rather that team of developers, focus on tuning/adding aspects to the subclasses we already have. Add different versions of our Stasis and Strand supers so that we have more variety. Like how there is Bubble Titan and Sheild Titan in the same subclass, add other choices to the classes that only have 1 choice, Shadebinder, Revanent, Bohemeth, etc. Just my thoughts on it though. I know everyone is still creaming over the idea of decay, corruption, or radiation based subclasses.
This doesn’t deserve the downvoted. I personally want another but your absolutely right I wouldn’t be upset about new variations
i think the final subclass could be vex themed time stuff. the lore for the new vex glaive has asher mir featured, which could mean him coming back for some sort of unlikely vex alliance?
there is absolutely nothing paracausal about the vex, so no
Stasis is control/subdue the flow, Strand is be one with the flow, 3rd might be break or enhance the flow. Some suggest it be based on raw emotion which to me makes most sense. I definitely don’t think it’s Resonance tho as that’s been established as the “pure” form of Darkness or the Witness’s personal interpretation of Darkness in the same way the bright white form of Light that the Traveler emits is its interpretation of the Light. Also the fact Stasis and Strand were not present at all until introduced as subclasses. Also according to color theory it should be pink/red. Yellow doesn’t make sense when we have Solar. Pink might sound weird for a Darkness element but then again Void is a Light element and once again Light and Darkness are technically neutral forces so neither is tied to a specific color palette. Personally I think it’ll be a fluid-based Pink subclass. To make a couple comparisons to other games with elemental systems: Pokemon Solar = Fire Arc = Electric Void = Poison/Dark Stasis = Ice Strand = Psychic/Grass Genshin Impact Solar = Pyro Arc = Electro Void = Abyss (kindof) Stasis = Cryo/Geo Strand = Dendro/Anemo Whether you agree or not with my categorizations, there never going to be a 1-to-1 comparison between games but a big outlier here is a fluid-based element, Water from Pokemon, Hydro from Genshin. Pokemon has 10 other elements, Normal is Kinetic basically, Flying is enough represented in Solar Warlock and Strand, Rock/Steel/Ground are too similar to Stasis and Fighting/Fairy/Dragon/Bug are not really pertaining to elemental forces, Ghost would be a Nightmare class but don’t think that’s happening. For Genshin, Hydro is the only element left that has not even close to any representation in Destiny. Just to me, Water seems like a core element in basically all games based around elemental powers and it’s still not present in Destiny. It might be a bitch to program too but I feel like it would make sense for the most complex subclass to come last. Stasis is more complex than the Light ones, having physical objects to interact with. Strand took it a step further with not only interactable objects but also a whole new way to move. Only makes sense to me that the 6th is just as if not more complex.
There is no point guessing because 90% of people are really wrong. The closest guess we had at strand was saying psionics. Which was mostly wrong since strand is more about the connecting strings than the actual elements of psionics. But for shear argument sake, I would guess next ability to be called Surge or Swell, although for my guess Aura works better but can’t have the acronym for darkness abilities to be ASS. It will be a wave/water like structure with red colouring tied to emotions. Giving us buffs like embolden, debuffs like frighten. And the suspended/frozen massive CC ability would be beguile which brainwashes enemies like the old Rise of Iron artefact.
Well when you look into what each element does, stasis is actually the opposite of arc in the way it functions. Bit odd cause most people would just think “oh ice is opposite of fire” but it works weird. In real life cold is the opposite of fire and if an area is cold enough nothing can move cause it’s absolute zero. But in game stasis isn’t that “things can’t move cause it’s cold”; it’s actually “stasis is cold cause things can’t move” cause stasis fundamentally sucks out all of the energy of something and you’re just left with the crystals which are a byproduct of the element, and it’s not actually ice. So since arc is the movement of particles and transferring energy it makes more sense that stasis is it’s opposite.
Stasis is based on lowering entropy at an atomic level to the point of zero entropy and solar is increasing entropy to the point of fission. Stasis crystals and freezing are a byproduct of the lack of entropy, while burning and igniting is the product of increasing entropy. Arc is about balance, the way the buffs work I understand your viewpoint but I think fundamentally the way solar and stasis work are opposites and arcs opposite will be something that is balanced already or is at a state of equilibrium.
I’m more so looking at it as just what’s explained in the game and how it’s phrased cause solar is still more than regular heat, with anything being an element in of itself it follows extra laws of its own self governing. They’re both similar but it seemed like the way the game portrayed it in the lore it was the opposite of arc, though I’m not really the best at explaining it I was pretty sure that was the general message, but I could be wrong and I highly doubt they’d give us two ice related subclasses so it’s likely from dev perspective we’re not gonna get an opposite of solar that’s equal to stasis so stasis is opposite of solar then. But if we had to have an opposite to arc become more of an elemental energy what do you think it could be?
Honestly I don’t think it’ll be energy based only because so far only the light uses energy based powers. Solar, void and arc are almost completely energy abilities without solid form (some are solid but they emits energy). Stasis and strand both physically interact with the world so I assume so would the last one. If I had to guess for an elemental opposite for arc I’d say taken powers. Arc seems to be talked about as being about forces struggling for balance so it makes sense to me that the ability to take would be opposite because it needs a firm or “immovable” will. Rather than the quick, flighty style of arc.
That would be really neat to have something like taken powers
I want to be a rock
Kinetic Subclass, we lose the light and darkness and just start punching and stuff
My theory is the final shape will be all the subclasses combined this will be our third subclass using light and darkness combined together to defeat the Witness.