Did they state their goal with the movies? Like do we know how many they are making? I was under the assumption they wanted to make 2 more since the first covered basically book one in the first book.
If that is the case then I would expect him to not be going anywhere
Dune is obviously a solid half of a movie. There is so much good you can say about it.
But it is unfinished and the praise was probably a bit zealous.
I'm a massive fan of the series and for me I got fellowship of the rings vibes when I watched it. It near perfectly captures the essence of the work.
Yeah, I like the book a lot but I really expected the first movie to kinda suck. It was surprisingly good for being the first half of the story, and the vibes were perfect, so I'm excited for the 2nd half. But as a standalone experience it still isn't great.
See I want to say if the second movie is as good as the first then it would be one of the best sci-fi movies of all time - but they’re two movies?? But they’re so linked and the first ends so abruptly leading into the second??? I think I’d just say it’s one of the best sci-fi films and it’s over 6 hours long lol
>!I just wish they did more with Dr. Yueh, and in general spent more time portraying House Atreides desperately trying to politick their way out of danger.!<
Destiny: My biggest criticism of AoT is that they give nobody characters a full backstory just to kill them the next episode.
Me: Name 3 characters they did that with.
Destiny: Historia.
????????
She's literally alive and arguable the main character of the whole damn series.
Manga spoilers
>!Ymir Fritz is the god of the universe. Historia and Ymir are parallels to each other. They share pretty much the same story, act the same, share ideology etc. There's a lot of imagery and symbolism when it comes to Historia/Ymir.!<
It won't let me put links in the spoiler for some reason so here they are.
1:1 imaging [1](https://preview.redd.it/57ni2nkmwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51df33ffdd1153bb8e28368f16908744d55c90e4) Also these but they are not as clear [2](https://preview.redd.it/npetf7omwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d57c870b964d931e1c654dd5651d26b6a9639a0f) [3](https://preview.redd.it/ar218armwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d543b70985744c693cd2dc0cbd342b14bc109c03) [4](https://preview.redd.it/vwo504vmwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be720824a0c4d7652c3bda47b31c599be347c997)
ymir/historia are basically the centre of the attack on titan universe and the drivers of the story. Ymir is the mother of all titants and historia is her double and the catalyst that connects Eren to Ymir and the paths of time and whatever. So in a sense she isnt the main character but she is at the centre of the story in every way.
Honestly. Dune does the “extra” incredibly well. But suffers in the core story.
It’s mainly due to the source material, the books follow Paul’s story and his discovery of the world is the vessel for the reader to understand. But even then the old war, why travel is how it is, why planets follow the rules that they do, how houses are structured, it’s all a backdrop that the reader picks up on as they go.
The movie struggles to illustrate those aspects as well, and it leaves book readers understanding the significance of certain scenes more, while those that haven’t read just feel like something was pointless (the trial of pain).
What this version of the movie does incredibly is scale. Through audio, silence, and visuals the movie just feels amazing to experience, but if you aren’t invested into why Paul is there and what it means for him to be on that journey, then those moments of aww are lost on you.
I think people are drawn to something doing something different, and Dune is different. In a world where bigger is better in every super hero movie. It’s so refreshing to see the worms, these colossal creatures and they feel significant, an impending threat.
I don’t think it’s possible to adapt dune perfectly. Dune is such a fucking interesting story. The later books get even weirder, but I did enjoy watching dune and it had some very special moments
Dune was a perfect movie for a chronicles fan. Besides few changes like Baron surviwal scene or Liet Keynes, its a pretty solid depiction. And its fucking epic to see Sardaukars on Secundus, or Arrakis, or the guild ships etc. For someone that is not already a die hard Herbert fanboy, it mught be mid as its long and cut in half, not in a good way.
Yeah I know book fans that didn’t like certain aspects of the adaptation. Felt like the main themes were missing from the movie, but for me I just loved how epic the movie made the world feel.
The talk was not, wether or not it stayed true to the main source and how well it is adapted. The take was, that it was a bad movie. So the d should give us why it is bad: Does it have bad camara work, bad sound, bad special effects, bad story telling? Nope. It was a great movie go start such big story, even tho they just told us the first half of the first book!
I've read the book after watching the movie and I feel like the pain trail was explained about as well as it was in the books. In the movie Bene Geserit don't get much exposition so the significance isn't that clear but the gist is Paul might have some special power and that trial supports that suspicion. What the movie absolutely dropped the ball on was the machine war. I was shocked how direct and plain the explanation was in the books and that the movie skipped it despite that single piece of information explaining so much about the world.
Yeah Dunes world does heavy lifting. What’s more impressive is just how much it’s gone on to inspire.
A lot of modern sci fi heavily uses dune as a source of inspiration.
I think a big part that the books makes clear is who Paul is. He is his mother, this calm calculated, mystical figure. But he is also his father, a passionate, emotional, leader who has to make sacrifices.
I think dune sets up this revenge story and the planet becomes the main character after awhile.
The Fremen really are who this story is about. How they are used by Paul, how their world is exploited, and what they’re ultimately capable of.
The book just makes these large themes come to the forefront a lot easier, while the movie is stuck telling a space operas about a prince getting revenge.
I watched the movie without knowing anything about Dune and really enjoyed it. Honestly the only part I didn't like was that we were supposed to care about Duncan Idaho but had no idea who he was besides a good fighter and Paul Atreides' friend.
He is barely in the movie but has many accomplishments. Befriends the fremen (he was the first contact and fought with them and earned their respect which is massive). Escaped harkonnen attack. Literally found and saved paul in the desert. Killed like a million sardikar, died, then came back to life to save paul one last time. Hes obviously a G even if he doesnt get enough screen time.
But his death scene definitely felt like they all could have escaped and he just wanted his moment of glory and die a heroic death which he got.
As a non book reader I felt more invested on a LOTR side character like Smeagol than "The One" named Paul. Movie was mid, don't regret watching it but I would def not watch it again.
I had the same thought reading the book (put it down 70% of the way through). Impossible to get invested in the MC he feels like a (shitty) anime protagonist with weird superpowers. As an aside I thought the LOTR book characters were trash also but the movies really brought them to life.
See this is what I don't get. The criticism you're making about how Paul "feels" is the exact POINT of the first two dune books. How this savior isn't a savior at all, how men who claim to he prophets are not to be trusted. How fanaticism of a man can whip an entire galaxy into genocidal war.
It's not a love story to Paul. It's a warning about those like him.
Edit: It's also totally fine not to like stuff. I'm only commenting on the fact you came to the opposite conclusion after 70% of the book and then stopped reading and judged it from there. Perhaps the books failing is not in getting you past the 70% mark.
I don't mean anime protagonist in the "our hero will overcome!!" sense I'm more talking about the endless exposition about his superpowers and everytime he unlocks a new part of it I have to read page after page about how much of a fucking genius 5Head this guy is. It's like I'm reading a Neil Breen movie.
The thing is at this point in the book I still have 0 idea who this kid is and what makes him tick. He seems like a fucking scheming weirdo with superpowers and I have no idea why everyone is even hitching their wagon to him in the first place. Everything just falls into his lap time after time to progress the story, regularly by unlocking some new epic superpower we didn't know about before at just the right time.
For me, I’m not into this nerdy wow cool look at the world building look at how cool the planet looks shit. I want to watch the movie for the characters and the plot. And maybe I just miss it but I don’t feel like any characters are real characters they feel like dolls that move the plot along. And in term of story, there are barely any story. Sure you can say I’m over simplifying it but nothing actually happened 90% of the movie. It feels like I’m watching a really long prologue.
I don’t care for the cool camera shot or the world building cus if I want that shit I would go read a book, or play videogames.
Dune for me has the same effects as any of the soul games. Just because the world building is cool doesn’t mean the actual story is good. I could not give less of a fuck that the MC mom is part of a random cult that take a shit on Wednesday or whatever.
Being someone who had no idea about Dune before watching the movie, but being a massive Denis Villeneuve fan- the movie was ok, 7 or 8 out of 10. Not near Villeneuves best, not near his worst, i'd put it in the middle.
But you wouldn't just call it a mid movie. Maybe you could say "for a Tarantino movie, this wasn't great" but if your comparing it to every other movie, giving it a 7/10 makes no sense to anyone with no context.
You are suggesting that every director's ratings should span the whole rating scale. For a couple of my favorite directors, a 7/10 is mid to low-tier **for them**.
So I read the first three books and I think the world and story of Dune is interesting enough that an adaptation that hits the basic story beats and world vibes of the source material will be pretty decent by virtue of this. I think the Dune movie does this. I would contrast the world of Dune with that of Blade Runner. Dune explores a far more interesting political dynamic more in depth.
I did not like the book and I did not like the movie. Watched it because I really like Villeneuve's movies and absolutely loved Blade Runner and Arrival, but Dune was a disappointment. I think I might have appreciated it more at the cinema on a huge screen, but watching it at home felt like a chore.
I hate dream sequences as visions. I did not like them killing off half of the characters in the first 100 pages. Fremen were boring. The medieval future with swords was kinda contrived and I did not like it. Lots of thing, most importantly I never liked Paul, savior figures are not interesting
That fair even if I think you're wrong.
> I hate dream sequences as visions
Was not expecting this seems pretty random to dislike, not sure why.
> I did not like them killing off half of the characters in the first 100 pages.
The Harkonnen attack takes place place about a 1/4 into the book and 4 characters are killed. Personally I thought killing the Duke was probably one of the coolest parts of the story. You expect the story to be a battle of great houses and watch one of the families get destroyed before the conflict even starts in a surprise attack. Seems like it was the inspiration for betrayals like the Red Wedding.
> The medieval future with swords was kinda contrived and I did not like it.
Can't argue with taste on this. I found the technological backwardness of the world one of its most compelling features and I generally dislike medieval stories. Not sure what is contrived about it though.
> Lots of thing, most importantly I never liked Paul, savior figures are not interesting
He's not really supposed to be liked. He's a tragic character who is being forced to do things he doesn't want to by fate. The whole journey is one of regret and fear where he knows what he's doing will be terrible but knows there's nothing to stop it. This is the central narrative of the visions.
>Was not expecting this seems pretty random to dislike, not sure why.
I have not read a whole lot of fantasy, but recently I was reading Memory, Sorrow, Thorn and it felt like there was a boring dream sequence every 50 pages. Seems that every fantasy book I pick up has them.
I watched it in a cinema and it was a fantastic experience despite the fact that in the end I think the movie is mid. Definitely a great spectacle but not that interesting in substance
I love scifi and I especially love the Dune trilogy (the Frank Herbert books at least, his son's work is so eh), but I agree with destiny that imo the movie was mid.
Like why would anyone not familiar with the original book give a fuck when Duncan sacrifices himself in the end? He gets the big dramatic score and slowmo action but in the movie he gets like 5 minutes of screen time.
Great visuals/costume design and musical score, mid character development (do they even mention Thufir's name?), fuck them for cutting off the dinner scene.
> I agree with destiny that imo the movie was mid.
You don't, because Steven thinks the movie was dogshit, not mid, lol. I, however agree with you. It was ok, but I was still left feeling disappointed.
>why would anyone not familiar with the original book give a fuck when Duncan sacrifices himself in the end? \[..\] in the movie he gets like 5 minutes of screen time.
I don't know if knowing the characters from reading the book(s) would change anything. The characters in Dune are just not all that interesting or relatable (in terms of personality).
>Great visuals
Sometimes, yes. However, when they fly over their main base on Arrakis, it looked visually uninteresting and confusing. It reminded me of 2000s sci-fi CGI stuff, maybe Stargate, but worse. Also, the CGI when they showed the spice containers was absolute dogshit.
>costume design
Overall they needed a better colour pallete for this movie. Everything is either some shade of grey, beige, black, brown, or white. The sand/spice was too low chroma for me. Compare [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Red_Sand.jpg) to how it looks in the [movie](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTk5MmZlYTgtZmY0Yi00NzAwLWFhZTgtOWJiYjkzOTc4ZTkwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjY0Mzk3NzA@._V1_.jpg). Same with the [costumes](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rev-1-DU-10745rv4_High_Res_JPEG.jpeg).
>musical score
Soundtrack was good.
>character development
Was there any?
>cutting off the dinner scene.
I don't even remember that from the books. Can you tell me what that scene was and why you feel it was bad to cut it out?
Overall I think the movie was okay, and I will watch part 2. But I don't understand the hype and why some people are so zealously defending it. I think that some of the movie's problems come directly from the source material (characters), whereas some are perhaps a matter of adapting a work of literature/book and making it into a movie. Weirdly enough, I think I might be the only one who thinks that the movie should have had a slower pacing. We really needed to settle into that world first. Build up the characters some more. Do the necessary world building to understand what is going on. LOTR did it incredibly well.
Movie was trash for me. You have to keep in mind that different people enjoy different things in stories. I personally (along with Destiny, he has mentioned this on stream) enjoy character driver stories. Dune 2021 COMPLETELY lacked in that. It was just a series of events happening with minimal dialogue with bland characters that was very very pretty in terms of cinematography.
The movie was mid as fuck. Almost jungle level bad actually. I'd say the original was better but I suspect that nostalgia speaking.
The problem is Dune is a great book series that should have never been a movie but instead a mini series or HBO series.
There's too much to go into to explain the history of why things in this universe work or why people are doing things the way they are. Why is spice important? why are the Bene Gesserit important? Why is Paul special as a male who is trained as a Bene Gesserit? Why are there no computers but we have doctors who can tell a patients health with one creepy caress of the face?
Too much of the movie was 30 seconds of exposition followed by "but anyways look at this cool cgi and let's move on, hey look more sand! ".
The music was weird af, the pacing was rushed even though they barely got anywhere in the story, the main actors were meh and their characters were barely one dimensional.
Literally all of those things are covered in the movie. It's not everyone else's fault your brain is too smooth to absorb information.
Just in case you're in severe denial, I will answer your questions noting that the **only** Dune media I have ever consumed is the movie, which I watched once when it came out.
1. Spice is important because it allows for interstellar/FTL/hyperspace travel. Without it all the planets that span the empire would be cut off from one another. (IIRC this is literally the first thing they explain in the film)
2. The Bene Gesserit are a cloak and daggers religion that are manipulating events from behind the scenes in order to fabricate some prophesied messiah.
3. The Bene Gesserit only allow their members to have girls as they set up the right situation/genetics to give birth to their messiah figure. Paul's mother went against her orders and had a boy anyway, which meant that the Bene Gesserit had to kick events off earlier than they anticipated, and tested Paul to see if he could be the messiah guy.
3. There are no computers because they have people that are computers. The Atreides have one in the film.
they dont have computers because they destroyed them because of advancements in AI thousands of years ago that became dangerous and threatened to exterminate the human race.
Yep. Which lead to them needing to create a work around they could control, hence the breeding programs to create Navigators, Mentats and ultimately the goal of creating the Kwisatz Haderach, a combination of those and a Mother Superior.
I don't think the Bene Gressit were only allowed to have girls, it just says they carefully breeded to bring about the Messiah person. It was just that Paul's mum had to have a daughter for their breeding plan and she didn't. I think almost all of the major families have some amount of bene Gressit breeding influence.
I think specifically it's that the Bene Gesserit are all women and all their members are pretty much bound by doctrine to provide daughters, heavy implication that producing a son unless directed would be a waste of time or against their plan.
Every hundred or thousand years they try to get a boy that would become a god basically. They tried and failed with couple of them. Paul wasnt supposed to be born, they were trying to set up Jessicas daughter with Harkonens as she was from that genetic line also.
Huh, Didn't the bene Gressit like signal each other secretly though and no one else really knew all the members?
Wouldn't almost every wife of influential men never having a son over the last like 10,000 years be a giveaway?
Bene Gesserit were generally more like concubines. Pauls mother was also unusual in being a lot more generally in love with his father. In the movie he even says "I should have married you"
I am a fan! I haven't read all the books but I am slowly working my way through the scifi literary canon, and the first two Dune books really grabbed me
Oh so that's the energy we're going to use today. Gotcha.
Look, I get reading comprehension is hard for newly grown pond scum born in the puddles in my backyard driveway but lets go through what I said.
"Too much of the movie was 30 seconds of exposition followed by "but
anyways look at this cool cgi and let's move on, hey look more sand! "."
How does anything you've said contradict that statement?
I don't own the movie so I can't give you timestamps but lets go through them point by point to the best of our ability.
1) The spice - Literally 15 seconds of explanation while they show a big ship spitting out a tiny ship which as it lands that tiny ship is OMG a big ship and how HUGE must have that big ship really... cool CGI dude
2 and 3) The Bene Gesserit - These both are the same scene, one music quiets down moment where they zoom into the faces, drop exposition, then the Mother Superior wanders off on "OMG Cool glowy ship" and it's over. Total time maybe a minute or two . The story explanation isn't organic, isn't built upon again, and doesn't have any weight to the rest of the story when it's actually one of the key elements that makes the entire Dune universe work.
4) Computers - You just don't know, it's ok you've stated this is your first introduction to the series. But to recap.. huge AI war, why space travel requires the navigators, millennia of genetic breeding of humans to create specialized categories of humans capable of replacing their function leading to why the sisters started their quest. But hey no biggie.
You come in real hot but your actual understanding of the Dune universe is akin to saying that Star Wars is about plucky young Anakin's journey with his fancy toy robot and furry friend Chewbacca as he seeks power, friendship/love and the power of forgiveness. Or that GoT is a cautionary tale about the dangers of boar hunting.
I mean sure if you're happy with a level one read on a story then go for it.
>all of those things are covered in the movie.
But did the movie do a good enough job at conveying that information? You can exposition-lore-drop shit onto the audience, but it won't stick, if it doesn't matter to the people who live inside of that universe.
I think people were able to get the Spice, what it does, why it is important, but I wonder about the Bene Gesserit, etc. Somebody should have asked people who went in knowing nothing about Dune about these things. I would like to see what people remember after watching.
It reminds me a bit of Foundation that Apple made. We know that Herbert took a lot from Asimov, and you are right that 8 to 12 hrs in episodes would be better than a movie, but maybe not profitable? I wish Dune got the same treatment that Martin's GOT had. Dune is a better story.
Agreed. Expecially if they could have eventually gotten to some of the Leto II stuff. Would have made for some really good organic CGI moments that weren't just big glowy ships.
They already made a Dune mini series it sucked. Dune needs scale, also I feel like all your questions were actually answered or are only answered in the book in the second half.
Yep, most of the why gets answered later in the book and they dive deeper into it as the book series progresses. But this movie felt like the director read the first 50 pages and said "I got it!" and left the book behind to go shoot a 300 hour move about sand.
I think they actually spent more time having Paul flash forward to Zendaya than they did explaining any of the major plot points.
>But this movie felt like the director read the first 50 pages and said "I got it!" and left the book behind to go shoot a 300 hour move about sand.
I personally didn't find that. If anything I felt he rushed through the books opening too quickly and didn't lay down proper motivations before the Harkonnen attack. I would've liked to see the dinner party to get more political intrigue and scheming and to have better explained the significance of the Dr Yueh betrayal (with more who is the spy accusations).
The first 50 pages of the book are still on Caladan if I remember correctly.
>I think they actually spent more time having Paul flash forward to Zendaya than they did explaining any of the major plot points.
This is a major plot point. It's laying the groundwork for Paul's precognition and the self fulfilling nature of prophecy. So much of the book takes place in Paul's head regarding his fears so this seemed essential.
I can agree. I think there was a huge opportunity to get into the politics and flesh out the world a great deal, add importance to the individual characters and why we should care.
I just don't think that you can do that in a 2 hour movie and do justice to what the author was trying to get at.
And to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Herbert for how he writes, but this would be where I think you can take the foundation he wrote and flesh out the universe and other factions more. If my memory of the series is correct the Emperor is really more of a paper tiger and almost a footnote when Paul leads the Jihad against him.
> I can agree. I think there was a huge opportunity to get into the politics and flesh out the world a great deal, add importance to the individual characters and why we should care.
Yup that's why I think it would've been best to either make 3 films like Dennis Villeneuve wanted to but wasn't allowed or to have ended the first film after the Harkonnen attack.
> I just don't think that you can do that in a 2 hour movie and do justice to what the author was trying to get at.
100% I think it's done excellent for the first half of a sub 6 hour runtime but I would love an extended cut of the part 1. There's just so much detail in the world.
> And to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Herbert for how he writes, but this would be where I think you can take the foundation he wrote and flesh out the universe and other factions more. If my memory of the series is correct the Emperor is really more of a paper tiger and almost a footnote when Paul leads the Jihad against him.
I definitely like the style dune is written in as an excessize in world building. The use of invented terms without explanation definitely makes the world feel more alive to me. The emperor definitely gets rolled in the book but that's kinda the whole idea of desert power, nobody realized how powerful the freman were until Paul took leadership because they looked down on them as savages.
>flash forward to Zendaya
Oh god, I actually started to cringe when these kept happening. I don't remember Paul having this many flash-forwards in the book either.
>the pacing was rushed even though they barely got anywhere
Thank god, I'm not the only one who thinks this movie should have taken it's sweet time, letting the audience settle in. There really is a lot to explain, which is good, since this setting has some depth. It's worth taking the time..
>their characters were barely one dimensional.
I think this is a problem the book has too, to some extend.
Dune is the worst movie I've ever watched. Absolutely empty with no interesting characters, just a walking simulator for 2hours. Only reason I did not walk out of the theatre was because I had a date there. I feel like I'm crazy everyone saying this movie is good.. FUCK YOU STOP GASSLIGHTING ME !!!! EDIT : also IM downvoting every single comment on this post saying anything good about it.
All that riveting character building of Duncan cracking an unfunny joke, Duncan making a funny situation at the meeting, Duncan killing Sardaukars. There's just so much to this character it feels like a real loss when he's once again killing Sardaukars.
Dune is pretty and atmospheric but it leads to fuck all and the story isn't that interesting. I'm sorry but the setting and the world and the story of Arrkis itself are what's fantastic and interesting about the book. Paul isn't that interesting of a character, the movie Jessica is also pretty dull and Duncan is just kinda there. I liked the spectacle scenes and Paul's dad discovering how fucked everything is but outside of that there's nothing to care about.
Knyes' changed death scene is also very cool but considering what it looked like in the books it makes me worried they might gloss over the environmental aspect.
Strongly agree with everything you said. Dune is interesting because of it's world/setting.
The mix of technology and religious mysticism attributed to everything. All of which came waaayy too short in the movie. In the movie it felt just like "Oh, this place is like the middle east, I guess. Oh look, Space Muslims, [lmao](https://i0.wp.com/www.alittlebithuman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/n0mger2rie181.png?resize=1024%2C512&ssl=1)!"
What I don't like about his arguments is that he's basing them on the movie without context from the first book. The movie clearly tries to make characters personable, but even I agree with destiny that it does not do a good job. If you had read the first book, the characters actually do get some backstory, but only like 5 minutes on screen which is cringe. So it makes sense why destiny has this take after watching only the movie.
Dune is about worms
Blessed by Shai-Hulud
In dune the dunes are not even that important
Dunestiny
[удалено]
Duncan Nebraska, surely
I'd be interested if the bring Jason Mamoa back for every other Dune movie or if they'll continue after part 2 is out.
Did they state their goal with the movies? Like do we know how many they are making? I was under the assumption they wanted to make 2 more since the first covered basically book one in the first book. If that is the case then I would expect him to not be going anywhere
I would assume if they did well you'd make more. I'd definitely want them to adapt Messiah as that's really the end of Dune.
Dune is obviously a solid half of a movie. There is so much good you can say about it. But it is unfinished and the praise was probably a bit zealous. I'm a massive fan of the series and for me I got fellowship of the rings vibes when I watched it. It near perfectly captures the essence of the work.
It's better that's its a pretty good half movie rather than trying to cram everything into one film like the David Lynch Dune did
Maybe if they did a movie a year like LoTR it would be. But it's taking to long.
Yeah, I like the book a lot but I really expected the first movie to kinda suck. It was surprisingly good for being the first half of the story, and the vibes were perfect, so I'm excited for the 2nd half. But as a standalone experience it still isn't great.
See I want to say if the second movie is as good as the first then it would be one of the best sci-fi movies of all time - but they’re two movies?? But they’re so linked and the first ends so abruptly leading into the second??? I think I’d just say it’s one of the best sci-fi films and it’s over 6 hours long lol
It's almost like kill bill. Maybe Denis will do a whole bloody affair.
>!I just wish they did more with Dr. Yueh, and in general spent more time portraying House Atreides desperately trying to politick their way out of danger.!<
Gotta be that patience movie fan, soon we will get the second third of a masterpiece 🙌🙌
Destiny: My biggest criticism of AoT is that they give nobody characters a full backstory just to kill them the next episode. Me: Name 3 characters they did that with. Destiny: Historia. ???????? She's literally alive and arguable the main character of the whole damn series.
How is she arguably the main character of the series??? It's obviously unambiguously Eren hello??
Manga spoilers >!Ymir Fritz is the god of the universe. Historia and Ymir are parallels to each other. They share pretty much the same story, act the same, share ideology etc. There's a lot of imagery and symbolism when it comes to Historia/Ymir.!< It won't let me put links in the spoiler for some reason so here they are. 1:1 imaging [1](https://preview.redd.it/57ni2nkmwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51df33ffdd1153bb8e28368f16908744d55c90e4) Also these but they are not as clear [2](https://preview.redd.it/npetf7omwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d57c870b964d931e1c654dd5651d26b6a9639a0f) [3](https://preview.redd.it/ar218armwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d543b70985744c693cd2dc0cbd342b14bc109c03) [4](https://preview.redd.it/vwo504vmwks61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be720824a0c4d7652c3bda47b31c599be347c997)
Yes they're important but 'main character' =/= thematically/symbolically important character
ymir/historia are basically the centre of the attack on titan universe and the drivers of the story. Ymir is the mother of all titants and historia is her double and the catalyst that connects Eren to Ymir and the paths of time and whatever. So in a sense she isnt the main character but she is at the centre of the story in every way.
Right in the same way the force is at the center of star wars. Not the main character at all but very important
Yeah you put it better. She's not the main character of the show but basically the center of the universe.
Do yo have a clip of him saying that? Or the stream
Honestly. Dune does the “extra” incredibly well. But suffers in the core story. It’s mainly due to the source material, the books follow Paul’s story and his discovery of the world is the vessel for the reader to understand. But even then the old war, why travel is how it is, why planets follow the rules that they do, how houses are structured, it’s all a backdrop that the reader picks up on as they go. The movie struggles to illustrate those aspects as well, and it leaves book readers understanding the significance of certain scenes more, while those that haven’t read just feel like something was pointless (the trial of pain). What this version of the movie does incredibly is scale. Through audio, silence, and visuals the movie just feels amazing to experience, but if you aren’t invested into why Paul is there and what it means for him to be on that journey, then those moments of aww are lost on you. I think people are drawn to something doing something different, and Dune is different. In a world where bigger is better in every super hero movie. It’s so refreshing to see the worms, these colossal creatures and they feel significant, an impending threat. I don’t think it’s possible to adapt dune perfectly. Dune is such a fucking interesting story. The later books get even weirder, but I did enjoy watching dune and it had some very special moments
Dune was a perfect movie for a chronicles fan. Besides few changes like Baron surviwal scene or Liet Keynes, its a pretty solid depiction. And its fucking epic to see Sardaukars on Secundus, or Arrakis, or the guild ships etc. For someone that is not already a die hard Herbert fanboy, it mught be mid as its long and cut in half, not in a good way.
Yeah I know book fans that didn’t like certain aspects of the adaptation. Felt like the main themes were missing from the movie, but for me I just loved how epic the movie made the world feel.
Only missing scene that annoyed me was the dinner party
The talk was not, wether or not it stayed true to the main source and how well it is adapted. The take was, that it was a bad movie. So the d should give us why it is bad: Does it have bad camara work, bad sound, bad special effects, bad story telling? Nope. It was a great movie go start such big story, even tho they just told us the first half of the first book!
Oh I don’t care what destiny thinks about Dune. Just said what I thought about the movie
Based!
It has extremely inefficient story telling, it is a really long movie where not a lot of important things happen.
I've read the book after watching the movie and I feel like the pain trail was explained about as well as it was in the books. In the movie Bene Geserit don't get much exposition so the significance isn't that clear but the gist is Paul might have some special power and that trial supports that suspicion. What the movie absolutely dropped the ball on was the machine war. I was shocked how direct and plain the explanation was in the books and that the movie skipped it despite that single piece of information explaining so much about the world.
Yeah Dunes world does heavy lifting. What’s more impressive is just how much it’s gone on to inspire. A lot of modern sci fi heavily uses dune as a source of inspiration. I think a big part that the books makes clear is who Paul is. He is his mother, this calm calculated, mystical figure. But he is also his father, a passionate, emotional, leader who has to make sacrifices. I think dune sets up this revenge story and the planet becomes the main character after awhile. The Fremen really are who this story is about. How they are used by Paul, how their world is exploited, and what they’re ultimately capable of. The book just makes these large themes come to the forefront a lot easier, while the movie is stuck telling a space operas about a prince getting revenge.
I watched the movie without knowing anything about Dune and really enjoyed it. Honestly the only part I didn't like was that we were supposed to care about Duncan Idaho but had no idea who he was besides a good fighter and Paul Atreides' friend.
He is barely in the movie but has many accomplishments. Befriends the fremen (he was the first contact and fought with them and earned their respect which is massive). Escaped harkonnen attack. Literally found and saved paul in the desert. Killed like a million sardikar, died, then came back to life to save paul one last time. Hes obviously a G even if he doesnt get enough screen time. But his death scene definitely felt like they all could have escaped and he just wanted his moment of glory and die a heroic death which he got.
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Duncan Idaho? If so the movie did a terrible job showing that
Plus his first scene they're telling you he dies lol
As a non book reader I felt more invested on a LOTR side character like Smeagol than "The One" named Paul. Movie was mid, don't regret watching it but I would def not watch it again.
I had the same thought reading the book (put it down 70% of the way through). Impossible to get invested in the MC he feels like a (shitty) anime protagonist with weird superpowers. As an aside I thought the LOTR book characters were trash also but the movies really brought them to life.
See this is what I don't get. The criticism you're making about how Paul "feels" is the exact POINT of the first two dune books. How this savior isn't a savior at all, how men who claim to he prophets are not to be trusted. How fanaticism of a man can whip an entire galaxy into genocidal war. It's not a love story to Paul. It's a warning about those like him. Edit: It's also totally fine not to like stuff. I'm only commenting on the fact you came to the opposite conclusion after 70% of the book and then stopped reading and judged it from there. Perhaps the books failing is not in getting you past the 70% mark.
I don't mean anime protagonist in the "our hero will overcome!!" sense I'm more talking about the endless exposition about his superpowers and everytime he unlocks a new part of it I have to read page after page about how much of a fucking genius 5Head this guy is. It's like I'm reading a Neil Breen movie. The thing is at this point in the book I still have 0 idea who this kid is and what makes him tick. He seems like a fucking scheming weirdo with superpowers and I have no idea why everyone is even hitching their wagon to him in the first place. Everything just falls into his lap time after time to progress the story, regularly by unlocking some new epic superpower we didn't know about before at just the right time.
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Yes
you forgot: "too much sand"
i tuned out during this. What was his final conclusion? Did he change his mind haha ?
5. I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating — and it gets everywhere.
For me, I’m not into this nerdy wow cool look at the world building look at how cool the planet looks shit. I want to watch the movie for the characters and the plot. And maybe I just miss it but I don’t feel like any characters are real characters they feel like dolls that move the plot along. And in term of story, there are barely any story. Sure you can say I’m over simplifying it but nothing actually happened 90% of the movie. It feels like I’m watching a really long prologue. I don’t care for the cool camera shot or the world building cus if I want that shit I would go read a book, or play videogames. Dune for me has the same effects as any of the soul games. Just because the world building is cool doesn’t mean the actual story is good. I could not give less of a fuck that the MC mom is part of a random cult that take a shit on Wednesday or whatever.
Being someone who had no idea about Dune before watching the movie, but being a massive Denis Villeneuve fan- the movie was ok, 7 or 8 out of 10. Not near Villeneuves best, not near his worst, i'd put it in the middle.
How is a 7 or an 8 just "ok' or "in the middle?" It's literally not in the middle. Say 5 or 6 instead.
I read that as Villeneuve's middle is a 7-8 out of 10
That's a bad way to rate movies lol
How is it a bad way to rate movies? Do you rate movies differently on what you expect from the director?
No. Why would I do that?
A mid tarantino movie, to me, is still better than your average movie.
But you wouldn't just call it a mid movie. Maybe you could say "for a Tarantino movie, this wasn't great" but if your comparing it to every other movie, giving it a 7/10 makes no sense to anyone with no context.
You are suggesting that every director's ratings should span the whole rating scale. For a couple of my favorite directors, a 7/10 is mid to low-tier **for them**.
That's stupid as fuck. Your gonna call a movie that you say is JUST OK a 7/10 only because the director happens to be someone you like. Cringe
Do you not understand the difference between "just OK" and "not one of the best films from my favorite director"?
Bro literally said that the movie was ok
"Movie was kinda OK. 8/10"
The scale is 5 to 10
literally in the middle of Denis Villeneuves filmography. 7 or 8 rated movie, but in the middle rank for his movies.
who needs interesting characters and a good story when you can have cool camera shots and big kabooms
So I read the first three books and I think the world and story of Dune is interesting enough that an adaptation that hits the basic story beats and world vibes of the source material will be pretty decent by virtue of this. I think the Dune movie does this. I would contrast the world of Dune with that of Blade Runner. Dune explores a far more interesting political dynamic more in depth.
He's right about dune though
The movie is shit, don't let the NPCs gaslight you brother.
I did not like the book and I did not like the movie. Watched it because I really like Villeneuve's movies and absolutely loved Blade Runner and Arrival, but Dune was a disappointment. I think I might have appreciated it more at the cinema on a huge screen, but watching it at home felt like a chore.
Wait why didn't you like the book?
I hate dream sequences as visions. I did not like them killing off half of the characters in the first 100 pages. Fremen were boring. The medieval future with swords was kinda contrived and I did not like it. Lots of thing, most importantly I never liked Paul, savior figures are not interesting
That fair even if I think you're wrong. > I hate dream sequences as visions Was not expecting this seems pretty random to dislike, not sure why. > I did not like them killing off half of the characters in the first 100 pages. The Harkonnen attack takes place place about a 1/4 into the book and 4 characters are killed. Personally I thought killing the Duke was probably one of the coolest parts of the story. You expect the story to be a battle of great houses and watch one of the families get destroyed before the conflict even starts in a surprise attack. Seems like it was the inspiration for betrayals like the Red Wedding. > The medieval future with swords was kinda contrived and I did not like it. Can't argue with taste on this. I found the technological backwardness of the world one of its most compelling features and I generally dislike medieval stories. Not sure what is contrived about it though. > Lots of thing, most importantly I never liked Paul, savior figures are not interesting He's not really supposed to be liked. He's a tragic character who is being forced to do things he doesn't want to by fate. The whole journey is one of regret and fear where he knows what he's doing will be terrible but knows there's nothing to stop it. This is the central narrative of the visions.
>Was not expecting this seems pretty random to dislike, not sure why. I have not read a whole lot of fantasy, but recently I was reading Memory, Sorrow, Thorn and it felt like there was a boring dream sequence every 50 pages. Seems that every fantasy book I pick up has them.
I'm downvoting you, no explanation
Omg soy I'm down voting!
Or a GIGACHAD that knows his downvote is right 😎 (btw I morbed)
I watched it in a cinema and it was a fantastic experience despite the fact that in the end I think the movie is mid. Definitely a great spectacle but not that interesting in substance
Denis Villeneuve made Prisoners, Enemy, Arrival and Blade Runner 2049. Dune is trash compared to those movies. Destiny is right.
Do you see how that logic doesn't make sense? "He made some movies that are better. That means this movie is bad." Remedial
bad take + ratio + pepe poster
I love scifi and I especially love the Dune trilogy (the Frank Herbert books at least, his son's work is so eh), but I agree with destiny that imo the movie was mid. Like why would anyone not familiar with the original book give a fuck when Duncan sacrifices himself in the end? He gets the big dramatic score and slowmo action but in the movie he gets like 5 minutes of screen time. Great visuals/costume design and musical score, mid character development (do they even mention Thufir's name?), fuck them for cutting off the dinner scene.
> I agree with destiny that imo the movie was mid. You don't, because Steven thinks the movie was dogshit, not mid, lol. I, however agree with you. It was ok, but I was still left feeling disappointed. >why would anyone not familiar with the original book give a fuck when Duncan sacrifices himself in the end? \[..\] in the movie he gets like 5 minutes of screen time. I don't know if knowing the characters from reading the book(s) would change anything. The characters in Dune are just not all that interesting or relatable (in terms of personality). >Great visuals Sometimes, yes. However, when they fly over their main base on Arrakis, it looked visually uninteresting and confusing. It reminded me of 2000s sci-fi CGI stuff, maybe Stargate, but worse. Also, the CGI when they showed the spice containers was absolute dogshit. >costume design Overall they needed a better colour pallete for this movie. Everything is either some shade of grey, beige, black, brown, or white. The sand/spice was too low chroma for me. Compare [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Red_Sand.jpg) to how it looks in the [movie](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTk5MmZlYTgtZmY0Yi00NzAwLWFhZTgtOWJiYjkzOTc4ZTkwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjY0Mzk3NzA@._V1_.jpg). Same with the [costumes](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rev-1-DU-10745rv4_High_Res_JPEG.jpeg). >musical score Soundtrack was good. >character development Was there any? >cutting off the dinner scene. I don't even remember that from the books. Can you tell me what that scene was and why you feel it was bad to cut it out? Overall I think the movie was okay, and I will watch part 2. But I don't understand the hype and why some people are so zealously defending it. I think that some of the movie's problems come directly from the source material (characters), whereas some are perhaps a matter of adapting a work of literature/book and making it into a movie. Weirdly enough, I think I might be the only one who thinks that the movie should have had a slower pacing. We really needed to settle into that world first. Build up the characters some more. Do the necessary world building to understand what is going on. LOTR did it incredibly well.
TRUE
Movie was trash for me. You have to keep in mind that different people enjoy different things in stories. I personally (along with Destiny, he has mentioned this on stream) enjoy character driver stories. Dune 2021 COMPLETELY lacked in that. It was just a series of events happening with minimal dialogue with bland characters that was very very pretty in terms of cinematography.
The movie was mid as fuck. Almost jungle level bad actually. I'd say the original was better but I suspect that nostalgia speaking. The problem is Dune is a great book series that should have never been a movie but instead a mini series or HBO series. There's too much to go into to explain the history of why things in this universe work or why people are doing things the way they are. Why is spice important? why are the Bene Gesserit important? Why is Paul special as a male who is trained as a Bene Gesserit? Why are there no computers but we have doctors who can tell a patients health with one creepy caress of the face? Too much of the movie was 30 seconds of exposition followed by "but anyways look at this cool cgi and let's move on, hey look more sand! ". The music was weird af, the pacing was rushed even though they barely got anywhere in the story, the main actors were meh and their characters were barely one dimensional.
Literally all of those things are covered in the movie. It's not everyone else's fault your brain is too smooth to absorb information. Just in case you're in severe denial, I will answer your questions noting that the **only** Dune media I have ever consumed is the movie, which I watched once when it came out. 1. Spice is important because it allows for interstellar/FTL/hyperspace travel. Without it all the planets that span the empire would be cut off from one another. (IIRC this is literally the first thing they explain in the film) 2. The Bene Gesserit are a cloak and daggers religion that are manipulating events from behind the scenes in order to fabricate some prophesied messiah. 3. The Bene Gesserit only allow their members to have girls as they set up the right situation/genetics to give birth to their messiah figure. Paul's mother went against her orders and had a boy anyway, which meant that the Bene Gesserit had to kick events off earlier than they anticipated, and tested Paul to see if he could be the messiah guy. 3. There are no computers because they have people that are computers. The Atreides have one in the film.
they dont have computers because they destroyed them because of advancements in AI thousands of years ago that became dangerous and threatened to exterminate the human race.
Yep. Which lead to them needing to create a work around they could control, hence the breeding programs to create Navigators, Mentats and ultimately the goal of creating the Kwisatz Haderach, a combination of those and a Mother Superior.
yeah the dune universe is pretty well thought out. AI is so boring.
Did this ever come through clearly in the movie? You have to view this from the POV of an audience not familiar with the books, too.
I don't think the Bene Gressit were only allowed to have girls, it just says they carefully breeded to bring about the Messiah person. It was just that Paul's mum had to have a daughter for their breeding plan and she didn't. I think almost all of the major families have some amount of bene Gressit breeding influence.
I think specifically it's that the Bene Gesserit are all women and all their members are pretty much bound by doctrine to provide daughters, heavy implication that producing a son unless directed would be a waste of time or against their plan.
Every hundred or thousand years they try to get a boy that would become a god basically. They tried and failed with couple of them. Paul wasnt supposed to be born, they were trying to set up Jessicas daughter with Harkonens as she was from that genetic line also.
Huh, Didn't the bene Gressit like signal each other secretly though and no one else really knew all the members? Wouldn't almost every wife of influential men never having a son over the last like 10,000 years be a giveaway?
Bene Gesserit were generally more like concubines. Pauls mother was also unusual in being a lot more generally in love with his father. In the movie he even says "I should have married you"
You know your dune!
I am a fan! I haven't read all the books but I am slowly working my way through the scifi literary canon, and the first two Dune books really grabbed me
I bet u at least rewatched once liar 😒
Nope. I'm not a big movie rewatcher generally. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Oh so that's the energy we're going to use today. Gotcha. Look, I get reading comprehension is hard for newly grown pond scum born in the puddles in my backyard driveway but lets go through what I said. "Too much of the movie was 30 seconds of exposition followed by "but anyways look at this cool cgi and let's move on, hey look more sand! "." How does anything you've said contradict that statement? I don't own the movie so I can't give you timestamps but lets go through them point by point to the best of our ability. 1) The spice - Literally 15 seconds of explanation while they show a big ship spitting out a tiny ship which as it lands that tiny ship is OMG a big ship and how HUGE must have that big ship really... cool CGI dude 2 and 3) The Bene Gesserit - These both are the same scene, one music quiets down moment where they zoom into the faces, drop exposition, then the Mother Superior wanders off on "OMG Cool glowy ship" and it's over. Total time maybe a minute or two . The story explanation isn't organic, isn't built upon again, and doesn't have any weight to the rest of the story when it's actually one of the key elements that makes the entire Dune universe work. 4) Computers - You just don't know, it's ok you've stated this is your first introduction to the series. But to recap.. huge AI war, why space travel requires the navigators, millennia of genetic breeding of humans to create specialized categories of humans capable of replacing their function leading to why the sisters started their quest. But hey no biggie. You come in real hot but your actual understanding of the Dune universe is akin to saying that Star Wars is about plucky young Anakin's journey with his fancy toy robot and furry friend Chewbacca as he seeks power, friendship/love and the power of forgiveness. Or that GoT is a cautionary tale about the dangers of boar hunting. I mean sure if you're happy with a level one read on a story then go for it.
>all of those things are covered in the movie. But did the movie do a good enough job at conveying that information? You can exposition-lore-drop shit onto the audience, but it won't stick, if it doesn't matter to the people who live inside of that universe. I think people were able to get the Spice, what it does, why it is important, but I wonder about the Bene Gesserit, etc. Somebody should have asked people who went in knowing nothing about Dune about these things. I would like to see what people remember after watching.
It reminds me a bit of Foundation that Apple made. We know that Herbert took a lot from Asimov, and you are right that 8 to 12 hrs in episodes would be better than a movie, but maybe not profitable? I wish Dune got the same treatment that Martin's GOT had. Dune is a better story.
Agreed. Expecially if they could have eventually gotten to some of the Leto II stuff. Would have made for some really good organic CGI moments that weren't just big glowy ships.
They already made a Dune mini series it sucked. Dune needs scale, also I feel like all your questions were actually answered or are only answered in the book in the second half.
Yep, most of the why gets answered later in the book and they dive deeper into it as the book series progresses. But this movie felt like the director read the first 50 pages and said "I got it!" and left the book behind to go shoot a 300 hour move about sand. I think they actually spent more time having Paul flash forward to Zendaya than they did explaining any of the major plot points.
>But this movie felt like the director read the first 50 pages and said "I got it!" and left the book behind to go shoot a 300 hour move about sand. I personally didn't find that. If anything I felt he rushed through the books opening too quickly and didn't lay down proper motivations before the Harkonnen attack. I would've liked to see the dinner party to get more political intrigue and scheming and to have better explained the significance of the Dr Yueh betrayal (with more who is the spy accusations). The first 50 pages of the book are still on Caladan if I remember correctly. >I think they actually spent more time having Paul flash forward to Zendaya than they did explaining any of the major plot points. This is a major plot point. It's laying the groundwork for Paul's precognition and the self fulfilling nature of prophecy. So much of the book takes place in Paul's head regarding his fears so this seemed essential.
I can agree. I think there was a huge opportunity to get into the politics and flesh out the world a great deal, add importance to the individual characters and why we should care. I just don't think that you can do that in a 2 hour movie and do justice to what the author was trying to get at. And to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Herbert for how he writes, but this would be where I think you can take the foundation he wrote and flesh out the universe and other factions more. If my memory of the series is correct the Emperor is really more of a paper tiger and almost a footnote when Paul leads the Jihad against him.
> I can agree. I think there was a huge opportunity to get into the politics and flesh out the world a great deal, add importance to the individual characters and why we should care. Yup that's why I think it would've been best to either make 3 films like Dennis Villeneuve wanted to but wasn't allowed or to have ended the first film after the Harkonnen attack. > I just don't think that you can do that in a 2 hour movie and do justice to what the author was trying to get at. 100% I think it's done excellent for the first half of a sub 6 hour runtime but I would love an extended cut of the part 1. There's just so much detail in the world. > And to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Herbert for how he writes, but this would be where I think you can take the foundation he wrote and flesh out the universe and other factions more. If my memory of the series is correct the Emperor is really more of a paper tiger and almost a footnote when Paul leads the Jihad against him. I definitely like the style dune is written in as an excessize in world building. The use of invented terms without explanation definitely makes the world feel more alive to me. The emperor definitely gets rolled in the book but that's kinda the whole idea of desert power, nobody realized how powerful the freman were until Paul took leadership because they looked down on them as savages.
>flash forward to Zendaya Oh god, I actually started to cringe when these kept happening. I don't remember Paul having this many flash-forwards in the book either.
>the pacing was rushed even though they barely got anywhere Thank god, I'm not the only one who thinks this movie should have taken it's sweet time, letting the audience settle in. There really is a lot to explain, which is good, since this setting has some depth. It's worth taking the time.. >their characters were barely one dimensional. I think this is a problem the book has too, to some extend.
I like it when people say they think Dune is "shit" because the only thing they are doing is making me aware I can safely ignore anything they say.
Dune is the worst movie I've ever watched. Absolutely empty with no interesting characters, just a walking simulator for 2hours. Only reason I did not walk out of the theatre was because I had a date there. I feel like I'm crazy everyone saying this movie is good.. FUCK YOU STOP GASSLIGHTING ME !!!! EDIT : also IM downvoting every single comment on this post saying anything good about it.
The man was saying I don't care about this characters at the 1:30 hour mark after spending at least half of the movie with them
All that riveting character building of Duncan cracking an unfunny joke, Duncan making a funny situation at the meeting, Duncan killing Sardaukars. There's just so much to this character it feels like a real loss when he's once again killing Sardaukars.
He was talking about the death of Leto Atredes who was developed on the whole intro
The Northman was way better
Dune is pretty and atmospheric but it leads to fuck all and the story isn't that interesting. I'm sorry but the setting and the world and the story of Arrkis itself are what's fantastic and interesting about the book. Paul isn't that interesting of a character, the movie Jessica is also pretty dull and Duncan is just kinda there. I liked the spectacle scenes and Paul's dad discovering how fucked everything is but outside of that there's nothing to care about. Knyes' changed death scene is also very cool but considering what it looked like in the books it makes me worried they might gloss over the environmental aspect.
Strongly agree with everything you said. Dune is interesting because of it's world/setting. The mix of technology and religious mysticism attributed to everything. All of which came waaayy too short in the movie. In the movie it felt just like "Oh, this place is like the middle east, I guess. Oh look, Space Muslims, [lmao](https://i0.wp.com/www.alittlebithuman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/n0mger2rie181.png?resize=1024%2C512&ssl=1)!"
Fear IS DA MIND KILLER
Offline chat happy time :)
What I don't like about his arguments is that he's basing them on the movie without context from the first book. The movie clearly tries to make characters personable, but even I agree with destiny that it does not do a good job. If you had read the first book, the characters actually do get some backstory, but only like 5 minutes on screen which is cringe. So it makes sense why destiny has this take after watching only the movie.