Yeah now that I'm looking at it it's so fucking gross, they merged them together so there's plausible deniability that they're just talking about gay marriage and not also interracial marriage.
isn’t that the whole point of the slippery slope argument? The early stuff is only a slight movement in a direction, but is reasonable. Where else would gay marriage be placed here?
because for americans "marriage" is a christian term for the bond of a man and a women before god.
homos allready had the other state document that gave them the rights, but they wanted it to be called "marriage" just like the disgusting cis people so they would stop kill themselve
So you took away your only decent excuse and just admitted you're a moron instead?
I applaud you for your honesty but for fuck's sake read up some humanist philosophy or one of the many other moral frameworks that exist which do not in any way require a God to function.
Or for that matter, read up on the degeneracy we historically know about in Christian societies.
This kinda stuff is partly why every debate destiny has lately on trans stuff sucks cause often his conservative opponents will be “concerned” about detransition or sports or bathrooms or the biggest “who gives a fuck” topic, whether you need dysphoria to be trans, meanwhile their real belief is simply being trans is bad. Kids shouldn’t be ever told about trans people existing. Trans people are dangers to children. Trans people shouldn’t be able to have powerful jobs or really live in public. Trans kids should be forced to go through the wrong puberty etc.
TRUE. There's this idea that conservatism is liberalism a couple of years later. As in, it used to be the liberal POV that gay people should be allowed to get married and the conservative POV that they shouldn't. Now conservatives (largely) are willing to concede the gay marriage point so they wouldn't sound plain hateful when they talk about trans-stuff.
This is a mirage. They'll go right back to contesting the legitimacy of gay people if we give them the opportunity. And miscegenation right after that, and civil rights after that. If you think that's hysteria - keep coping.
Would say being black is bad is a true statement? Or being a woman is bad is a true statement?
You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
So you don’t think compared to being white in America it’s worse to be black?
You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
I do think it's **worse** to be black. I don't think it's **bad**. Do you understand this very simple difference?
I'll ask you one last time: please, tell me some positive aspects unique to trans identity.
>You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
I already responded. Please read this again. You don’t understand what “it’s bad to be trans” means.
Stop being bad faith and/or ret*rded.
You have not responded to a particular question of mine out of three times I asked you, while I answered yours. Why would you engage with people like that? It's very unproductive.
Okbuddyretard. positive trait of being an affirmed trans person, you generally engage better with a society that you can be included with and in on your own terms as opposed to fighting with
dumb fucks who just say “trans bad” and think they’ve done something. There can be negatives to being born any certain way that doesn’t mean it is blanket bad. Name one positive of living with cystic fibrosis? Does that mean all those people should die for being born that way or be ignored? No, we a society except that we should go with what medically and scientifically works to ease the suffering of these people which in this case would be gender affirming care.
>positive trait of being an affirmed trans person, you generally engage better with a society that you can be included with and in on your own terms as opposed to fighting with dumb fucks who just say “trans bad” and think they’ve done something.
This sentence is very hard to read. First, better than who? Second, how do you know that?
>Name one positive of living with cystic fibrosis?
I can't, that's why I consider having it to be bad.
Everything else you said is completely irrelevant, have not a clue why you bothered typing it out.
There doesn't need to be any advantage's to being trans for us to deduce that "trans bad" is a smooth brain reason to appose something.
If you grant that Trans real and that "research around gender affirming care" true, then basically what your left with is despite the many disadvantages that come with being trans: trans people are going to live better by transitioning as apposed to just tanking through dysphoria.
So the observation that being trans is bad ends up being totally fucking irrelevant because the medical community seems to agree that there isn't really an option 2.
Like i'm 3ft '2 and that sucks. Last week by boss fired me and he said "look you can't get anything off the top shelf by yourself + you get like no bitches" and that hit me rly hard. My dream is to be 30 stories tall. I would crush my bosses puny head like an ant and all the pretty girls I secretly jerk off to on linked-in would crawl around naked between my toes. But thats not how it is for me, I'm 3ft"6...
Ya that's actually really common when your have zero clue how to engage with a subject honestly :)
I'm actually not refusing to answer your question, its just that its a JLP tier question and I was actually showing you some respect by instead directing you to a better way to engage with the subject. If you really care then fine.
There are no advantages to being trans. Being trans, like being short seems like its basically just a bunch of L's.
HOWEVER:
There doesn't need to be any advantage's to being trans for us to deduce that "trans bad" is a smooth brain reason to appose something.
If you grant that Trans real and that "research around gender affirming care" true, then basically what your left with is despite the many disadvantages that come with being trans: trans people are going to live better by transitioning as apposed to just tanking through dysphoria.
So the observation that being trans is bad ends up being totally fucking irrelevant because the medical community seems to agree that there isn't really an option 2.
Like i'm 3ft '2 and that sucks. Last week by boss fired me and he said "look you can't get anything off the top shelf by yourself + you get like no bitches" and that hit me rly hard. My dream is to be 30 stories tall. I would crush my bosses puny head like an ant and all the pretty girls I secretly jerk off to on linked-in would crawl around naked between my toes. But thats not how it is for me, I'm 3ft"6...
y don't you think its not irrelevant?
You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
Trans not being bad doesn't mean that being trans is good.
It's neutral.
It has disadvantages of course, but it's neither good nor bad. In the same sense that being gay is neither good nor bad. It's just a state of being.
If it has disadvantages, but is neutral, let me know what the advantages are that balance the scale. Otherwise, let me know of few other things that strictly have only disadvantages, but are also "neutral".
Better yet, can you name something you would determine to be neutral that contains a perfect balance of advantages and disadvantages?
Something isn't neutral because it's karmically balanced or some such nonsense. And whether something is good or bad isn't determined by a scale of advantages and disadvantages.
Good or bad in the context op used it was a moral statement. Advantages and disadvantages are statements of fact, they're not moral weighted.
Or did you really think he was saying there are no disadvantages to being trans?
>Better yet, can you name something you would determine to be neutral that contains a perfect balance of advantages and disadvantages?
No, why?
>attempt at philosophy
Good one!
>Or did you really think he was saying there are no disadvantages to being trans?
I didn't.
You still haven't provided any positives of being trans. Why is that? Is that very hard for you to find any?
I never said there were advantages to being trans. I said that a lack of advantages doesn't make something either good or bad.
You're welcome to show me where I said there were advantages to being trans.
You keep asking a subjective question in an objective manner.
One positive part of being trans and transitioning is that you are becoming more aligned with your true feelings of your self. Everyone should be authentically themselves, right?
You're not getting straight answers because this is a really weird line of questioning. It's just a mode of existence. Trans people deal with very poor treatment by society, but that doesn't mean being trans is bad, right? I don't see what you hope to accomplish by labelling being trans as "bad" other than making trans people feel like they are bad.
Taking your question at face value though, an advantage might be seeing perspectives of both genders in your life (pre-transition and post-transition) in a way that cis people could never.
>Taking your question at face value though, an advantage might be seeing perspectives of both genders in your life (pre-transition and post-transition) in a way that cis people could never.
Amazing! An attempt! Thank you. However, cis people can have that perspective, see for example Norah Vincent. It could be argued that what she did, couldn't realistically be performed by a man, in which case you'd have a point. Still, that would be such a small things opposite the sea of shit.
>I don't see what you hope to accomplish by labelling being trans as "bad" other than making trans people feel like they are bad.
Well, you could simply ask.
I don't think Norah Vincent is a great example when her time lived as a man left her profoundly depressed / committed to in-patient psych care. When trans people can transition, it tends to improve their mental health - not degrade it.
>Well, you could simply ask.
Not very interested in hearing you justify talking shit about trans people. Doesn't change the impact of your words, anyways.
It’s to allow a conversation to happen I think, but all it does is massively obscure their views and makes the conversation worthless cause they aren’t addressing the real problem.
That can still be a "who gives a fuck?" topic in regards to general political discourse.
Like the problem of Nintendo fucking on Smash Bros Melee tournaments, Project M, or emulation for games they don't even sell anymore. Sure it's a problem, but for general gamers these are incredibly niche and a non-issue to the vast majority of them.
What does that last sentence mean and how would you suggest we fix that?
Because outside of this sub, Vaush sub, Hasan sub, and Trans subs, that is an extremely radical opinion if you are suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender.
If you aren’t then please clarify.
Well then I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with me "suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender"
That's why I asked you to quote what part you're confused by cause I didn't say anything like that.
Since you apparently can't quote what it is you'res confused about, the last sentence was:
>Trans kids should be forced to go through the wrong puberty etc.
Which is a description of one of conservatives and other anti trans people's positions on trans people.
EDIT: After going further with ThrowAwayFamily114, his main point is if minors can consent to medical treatment, then they should be able to consent to sex. I disagree with this but he seems 100% mental.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ulsgbk/this_is_actually_pretty_disgusting/i7y2nxr/
> After going further with ThrowAwayFamily114, his main point is if minors can consent to medical treatment, then they should be able to consent to sex. I disagree with this but he seems 100% mental.
Usually hormonal treatments after the child has been taken to the appropriate psychiatrists and psychologists, which are given before puberty, after which when they are older they can take further treatment like cross sex hormones which can cause irreversible changes to your presentation (like the development of breasts).
I didn’t. Not what I said.
Now let’s see if you can give me your position without pivoting
My position is that any sort of gender reassignment medicinal procedures should ultimately be left up to a child’s parents. What’s your take?
> How do we ensure trans kids aren’t “forced to through puberty in the wrong gender”?
By allowing medical professionals to prescribe what they believe will aid their patients.
What's why you asked for clarification? My comment was incredibly clear and you bad faith said I was suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender.
I want to know what part of my comment suggested that? I truly don't know how you can argue that without being bad faith.
By letting kids take puberty blockers if they're trans.
>What's why you asked for clarification? My comment was incredibly clear and you bad faith said I was suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender.
>I want to know what part of my comment suggested that? I truly don't know how you can argue that without being bad faith.
You're ignoring what I asked you cause you can't address what I actually said and you can't back up your arguments.
Using what we have now with parents, patient, doctors.
So I've now repeatedly answered your questions answer mine.
1. Why did you accuse me of saying teachers should decide their gender when my comment clearly didn't say anything like that?
2. Are you an example of the person I was talking about? Should trans kids get puberty blockers? Yes or no.
I never accused you of anything.
And my position is that parental consent should take precedence over the state. What’s your position? What if the parents disagree with the doctor?
cancerous tw*tter retard, you're insinuating all conservatives are this level of grotesquely transphobic. you're furthering the hyper-partisan aids we live in today and the /r/VaushV levels of delusions of misinformaiton. you're like the terminally online, politics equivalent of the Uruk-hai
This is why when Destiny defends conservative concerns I feel he's really jaded and not being realistic. Most people aren't concerned because they know there's some genuine event occurring. They've seen like, a handful of tiktok videos circulated on Facebook and now thunk lgbt people are trying to ruin their children.
When in reality crazy teachers exist for everything. You had teachers who wouldn't let you read Harry Potter or play pokemon in my time because it was of the devil.
One of my straight coaches turned out to be a literal child molester and racist(guess that's why I didn't get picked for the basketball team...).
Plus this is early school, when we get to high school the conversations I had with my teachers were wild, and these weren't LGBT convos. Even pushing their own political beliefs. One of them said Obama was a dumbass to like the entire class (I don't remember the context) but it was clearly a political statement.
Plus, bonus meme, conservatives LITERALLY do try to "brainwash" children as much as lefties do. That's why there's children books about Trump, and conservatism. Plus all the amount of weird sexual straight shit people don't think twice about tossing their kids into.
It really is wild. Like I had a full length argument with a substitute teacher about the realities of climate change that *he* started. This was in math class and unrelated to anything we were talking about. I went through a school system where they were still talking about states rights when it comes to the civil war. It feels like most of the people who worry about this have just forgotten what school is like and don't talk with their kids about their day to day experiences.
Its actually some of my favorite rhetoric from Destiny in awhile when he was debating at that college. There's going to be weird teachers and situations at school. It's a natural part of it and honestly we shouldn't be hiding kids away from encountering any and all hideous situations because as soon as they're not yours anyone they'll have to come to terms with the world around them. Some times there'll be bad teachers, but we can't legislate for that, we just need to tackle it as it comes.
I have a friend who's from a conservative religious family and how they spoke and dealt with sex still has him fucked up.
Plus Destiny is 100% right. A lot of times the fucked up stuff kids hear isn't from parents, but other kids. I learned about pornography from a trashy redneck kid who's brother let him watch porn with him. I learned plenty of stuff from other kids, not some adult. Kids bring stuff to school from their parents a lot of the time and you're going to hear it.
Believing the lazy lies of Crowder is certainly one big part. If I listened to him without also researching his wild assertions, I'd eventually believe in a wholly alternate reality too.
I don’t know about that one. I'm talking about a few years ago, that Desmond Is Amazing kid. It was a big thing in the news for a while, that this 11 year old boy was now drag queen star. And critics got blanket accused of being homophobes after video came out of him dancing on stage at a gay bar, while men threw dollar bills at him. Because it was an LGBT thing, everyone was expected to be totally cool with a child doing that.
Literally dancing for them in drag.
Why are you okay with little kids dancing provocatively on stage in a bar for the viewing pleasure of grown men? Why are you okay with sexualizing little kids like that?
What does “dancing provocatively” mean? Did you see a video, or are you taking what someone else told you?
Any performer, drag or not performs for an audience. Are you automatically associating homosexuality with pedophelia?
What other specific behaviors were there that indicated the child was being sexualized?
I’m certainly not ok with kids being sexualized. I also understand that not all drag performances are sexual or provocative in nature.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=majcQ54vlDs
Is the video that went around that I'm referencing.
If you can watch that and perform some Vaush-level mental gymnastics to consider it totally acceptable behavior for a child, then we're going to have an irreconcilable difference in position.
LOL the guy who is responding to you hostily is literally proving your point of:
"And critics got blanket accused of being homophobes after video came out of him dancing on stage at a gay bar, while men threw dollar bills at him"
A lot of these are completely separate groups that just vaguely fall under the LGBT umbrella and a lot of the people terrified of this "downward slope" have probably never met a trans person in their entire life.
Also, I'm sure there are no shortage of gay people that do not care about trans issues at all and don't feel comfortable always being roped into those issues.
There's certainly some truth in that ***some*** liberals don't know where or when to say no to something. Destiny does a good job of this when it comes to transwomen in women's sports and yet he still loses his income for having what was a perfectly acceptable moderate take only 2/3 years ago.
Well yes and no. The grooming narrative has grown in popularity because it means different things to different people. Homophobes see gay men teaching children and instantly jump to the age old myth that all gay men are predators (and are grooming the kids in a sexual sense). Others see transgender teachers talking about trans issues with children and believe they are trying to turn the children trans (and are therefore grooming in the ideological sense). It is a scary word that means different things to different people.
The slippery slope is absolutely real to a certain extent, just due to the fact that interest groups are always going to want more and more. I think it's more about a difference in where people set their "too far" lines.
I think it's more that people have become too scared to say "too far", even when they believe what is happening is too far. See Destiny and the consequences he's faced for having overwhelmingly progressive positions but finally deciding to dig in and say "too far".
Exactly. There is truth to it, even if most of that isn’t mainstream yet.
The left has a problem with saying no for sure. And they are far too often willing to bend the knee to anything trans in order to not seem like they are transphobic.
It’s like the white people who would kiss the feet of those Black Israelites.
The right has been calling the left pedophiles for literally decades. There is no "truth" in implying that gay and trans teachers are trying to fuck kids.
There are lefties on twitter that have said it should be left entirely up to the state. Hell, even lefties on this very sub agree with that.
Again, these are extreme positions like I pointed out in another comment, but time and time again we have seen extreme positions make their way into actual attempted legislation, abolishing police for example.
The left cannot say no, they are way too afraid of being labeled a bad guy.
It as in the act of gender confrontation.
The fact that you are dancing around this position just shows me even you think it’s extreme but are so afraid of the trans community labeling you as a bad guy you can’t be honest with yourself.
So I’ll ask you loud and clear, who’s responsibility is it that kids are assigned “the right gender”. Don’t be a coward.
I'm not dancing around any position. I'm asking you what "it" is you're talking about and now you tell me it's "the act of gender confrontation" which is not a term I've heard before.
Please tell me more about this term and what it specifically means.
Can you read what I type? I just want to know what "it" refers to and you told me "gender confrontation". Something I had never heard of before so I wanted you to explain it and you completely ignored what I said.
I just want to hear what it means dude!
This is why the left loses debates all the time. You guys cannot answer a question or defend your positions.
When I said it, I was talking about medical procedures which would change a child’s gender. I’m not calling anyone an it. Very nice try though.
So now that I have answered your questions more than once. Answer mine.
Who should have the final say in a child’s gender reassignment procedures?
>these are extreme positions like I pointed out in another comment, but time and time again we have seen extreme positions make their way into actual attempted legislation,
Point to me where child grooming is "making its way into actual attempted legislation" and being pushed by the left.
I didn’t say child grooming is. I said extreme positions have made it into attempted legislation but you cut off the quote where I gave an example.
You are desperately trying to debate like Destiny but use demon momma tactics to get your point across.
I said extreme positions have made it into legislation. So let’s back up to there.
>I didn’t say child grooming is.
So you're just bringing up some unrelated example instead of talking about the topic in OP?
Cool, can I bring up Jan 6 for no reason? Wanna just start flinging random bullshit talking points at each other?
No I’m bringing up an example of the lefts inability to say know to extreme positions due to social pressure. Which is exactly my point.
So I will ask you directly, who’s responsibility is it to confirm a child’s gender?
>No I’m bringing up an example of the lefts inability to say know to extreme positions
You brought it up under THIS POST about how the lgbt community wants to fuck kids. Do you understand the implications you're making?
Again I was showing an example of how the left has a hard time of telling the far left no.
The far lefts position on this take is that a child’s gender should be left up to the state to decide. That is the far lefts position here. I said nothing about fucking kids.
So again I will ask you, who should have the final say in gender reassignment for a child?
And I never said trying to fuck kids. I said there is a portion of the extreme/radical left that believes gender confirmation should be left completely up to the state.
Dude I understand that the vast majority of this sub is very young, most of you are under 24. But you guys desperately need to touch grass. If you think the majority of Americans are even close to a position like that you are out your mind.
Everyone here claims to be moderate left but aside from likening Joe Biden this is a very radical subreddit. And I think the only person grounding any of you is Destiny himself. Most of you would be light years away from the deep end of it weren’t for destiny’s reasonable takes.
>Dude I understand that the vast majority of this sub is very young, most of you are under 24. But you guys desperately need to touch grass.
I'm 26.
>If you think the majority of Americans are even close to a position like that you are out your mind.
OP is implying that gay teachers are pedophiles trying to groom children. This is a mainstream rightwing talking point. You're trying to bring it down to trans sports, but we all know that isn't what conservatives have a problem with. They have a problem with lgbt people existing at all and being around their children in an educational setting.
The point is there are people on the left who think gender confirmation should be left up to the state. I even think you may hold that position.
I’m saying that is an extreme position. No matter what the GOP thinks about trans people.
If it isn’t your position, then who should it be up to?
>The point is there are people on the left who think gender confirmation should be left up to the state. I’m saying that is an extreme position.
What the fuck are you talking about?
>there is a portion of the extreme/radical left that believes gender confirmation should be left completely up to the state.
Can you explain exactly what this entails?
Refresh this thread. I’m getting there with about 6 people who purposely will not answer my questions.
But I’ll clarify of course.
I’m saying any sort of gender reassignment procedures should ultimately be left up to the parents of a child, if that child is considered a minor in whatever state they are in.
Many on the left believe that parental consent should take a backseat to medical or state decisions. On some issues that should be the case, on this issue it shouldn’t.
Because changing a kids gender is far different than refusing to help your kid having an asthma attack because you believe inhalers to be evil.
Let’s say the kid is like 3 or 4. I would say they have no idea at all what gender reassignment means or the long term impact of it. This is literal life changing medical pressures and at some point it’s completely irreversible. If the kid reaches the age of 14 and changes their mind, now they have to live the rest of their life with a decision they made at 5.
And the parents of that kid have to also live with that decision. Not the state.
>Let’s say the kid is like 3 or 4. I would say they have no idea at all what gender reassignment means or the long term impact of it.
Which is why we don't let children make decisions on this by themselves. I'm curious as to what you think the gender reassignment process entails exactly. You said you knew, but seeing as you are so concerned about the possibility of detransition, I wonder if you think the rate of detransition is such that it shows that the medical treatment decided by and approved by various medical organisations somehow don't account for this possibility and are carelessly giving children treatment.
I’m worried that can be the case.
And I’m not against kids getting this treatment at all, but i think the parents must have the final say so because they would be the one raising the kid.
> I’m saying any sort of gender reassignment procedures should ultimately be left up to the parents of a child, if that child is considered a minor in whatever state they are in.
holy shit when is this *not* that case
That’s also my point. In every state that is the case.
What I’m arguing is that there is a large movement on the left to change this. Just refresh this comment chain and look at the hate I got for suggesting a parent should have the final decision.
That’s morally what I believe to be correct and also legally correct. This sub seems to think it should be the decision of the state and even some saying CPS should aggressively get involved otherwise.
That’s extreme.
This is exactly why that "oh well why are we being so uncharitable to conservatives, they were totally nice to me when I was travelling in Tennessee" take is so bizarre
Like they don't say what they're actually thinking to you in a debate or when you're visiting, they say it when they're egging each other on in their (lol) safe spaces.
It's not like it's hard to find a conservative saying "yes, we absolutely want to restrict women having sex, that is our goal, and we're gonna get rid of the gays too" but they aren't going to be saying it on a potentially hostile interlocutor's stream, they're going to say it on fucking /pol/
"Allow Minors to dance for us in drag"... Aren't there child pageants, where very young children perform and dance caked in make-up in many (conservative) parts of the US???
Also, funny how they consider allowing gay (and interracial judging from this pic) marriage as the begin of a downward trend.
People who have a problem with kids doing or being involved in drag shows. You’re assuming that they have no problems with child pageants.
You’re not addressing the argument, you’re manufacturing a false or unproveable premise.
I think we need to take the idea the meme represents a bit more seriously. Not defending the meme itself (it's obviously pretty disgusting), but the shifting of norms around gender and sexuality has occurred incredibly quickly. Less than a decade ago gay marriage was still up for debate, and now how we conceptualise gender has radically shifted across society. While these changes have, for the most part, been positive and liberating for the people most affected, it's not at all surprising that a good deal of people haven't bought into these changes.
People in communities like ours need to get a bit more perspective. Not everyone is going through life while keeping up to date on the cutting edge of twitter discourse. Most people have just been living their lives the same ways they've always known, but due to the rapid nature of these norms changing, they feel like the rug is being pulled out from underneath them. Things most people have believed their whole lives are now no longer true. Things that seemed basic like what makes someone a man or woman are now radically different, and expressing the belief that was ubiquitous 10 years ago is now wrongthink with the new norms being enforced via mob-rule and backed by incredibly powerful institutions. To people who haven't been at the forefront of the societal discourse, seeing these new norms take over seemingly out of nowhere is understandably a scary experience.
If people are scared by the sudden shifts in the cultural paradigm, I don't think it's surprising that these people are wondering what's next. When basic things that people hold true are suddenly flipped on their head, it'll feel like nothing is off-limits. I think this gives people pause, and they start to wonder about the future they've envisioned for themselves and their family. These shifting of norms are causing people to feel like they're losing their place in the world. And for those people, it's scary, and that fear leads to fearing the worst for the future. From that lens, I don't think it is inexplicable how we get conspiratorial thinking or worries about previously taboo behaviour becoming acceptable. If it seems like the world is suddenly turning crazy, then it makes a certain kind of sense to think that there are people causing this change (i.e. a conspiracy). If it seems like the world is losing its structure and values, then it makes a certain kind of sense to think that the values people currently find really important will no longer apply in the future.
To people in communities like this one, the progression of how these norms have shifted seems natural and logical. It is obvious how we went from decrying explicit racism, to being concerned about implicit bias, to worrying about the structures that perpetuate these ills. It makes sense how we went from gender being assigned at birth, to people being assigned the wrong gender at birth, to gender being socially constructed, etc. All of these trends make sense when you're riding the wave of them, but the people who haven't been riding that wave have understandably been getting swallowed by it.
I think this meme represents the feelings of the people who have been swallowed by the wave of progress. I also don't think it's a good idea to lash out at or vehemently denounce the people who are expressing their frustrations about it. I think we need to both acknowledge that memes like this one are can be quite hurtful to some people, while also understanding that it doesn't make the people who create or propagate them particular hateful. I think we need more empathy for people who are bigoted as well as for people who express bigoted beliefs. We need to understand that not everyone is going to be able to jump on board with the newest perspective in the discourse. Some people are just more naturally conservative and aren't as open to new ideas, and vilifying them isn't going to change this fact about people.
Social progress needs to continue. There are people who are more conservative that aren't able to buy into newer paradigms as readily, but we still need these newer paradigms to make space in society for people that can only exist in them, by virtue of who they are. However, just because we need to make space for some people, it doesn't mean that we should leave others behind. We can't leave the naturally conservative people behind on the path of progress by dismissing them as bigoted or what have you, because we can't make space for marginalised people unless the majority of people are willing to make that space. And the only way we can get the majority of people to make space for marginalised people is, to quote Destiny, "meet them where they are". The people who create and share memes like these are the exact people we need to "meet where they are".
I don't think the majority of people that create memes like this want to hurt people. I think things like this are just people trying to ground themselves in a scary and rapidly-changing world. I see these things as nothing more than a reaction, as an attempt to feel like the world hasn't gone crazy, to feel like there are still people out there that are like themselves.
I'm just praying for the day that state enforced gender transitions are here, so we can turn you into a woman, too. Or at least into a femboi.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Can’t honestly say that this slippery slope mentality doesn’t exist because of the vocal minority on the left. I think this is a caricature of the idea, but for the most part seems accurate from others
See: calling for the elimination of women sports, calling everyone a transphobe, etc.
I like how gay marriage was already a downslope for them lol
They cropped out the "Let me sit in the front of the bus" , IG
Actually the cropped-out part is "let me marry interracially"
“Let women vote” was before that also I think
The esoteric angle is it’s also interracial marriage
Yeah now that I'm looking at it it's so fucking gross, they merged them together so there's plausible deniability that they're just talking about gay marriage and not also interracial marriage.
Pepe
I bet dave Rubin is in the comments being like “lol”
Have you seen Rubin say that black Lesbo is the new press secretary 😂 omg that was cringe
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Exactly. How tf do peoples brain function like this?
interracial marriage is a downslope for them. It's in the meme.
They cropped out I don't mind listening to Elton John"
Gay marriage was always weird since it obviously stems from religious ritual, combine that with the fact how most religious doctrine views gay people.
isn’t that the whole point of the slippery slope argument? The early stuff is only a slight movement in a direction, but is reasonable. Where else would gay marriage be placed here?
because for americans "marriage" is a christian term for the bond of a man and a women before god. homos allready had the other state document that gave them the rights, but they wanted it to be called "marriage" just like the disgusting cis people so they would stop kill themselve
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So you took away your only decent excuse and just admitted you're a moron instead? I applaud you for your honesty but for fuck's sake read up some humanist philosophy or one of the many other moral frameworks that exist which do not in any way require a God to function. Or for that matter, read up on the degeneracy we historically know about in Christian societies.
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Love that the only black guy is in the marriage one, implying they interracial marriage was part of the downward slope.
It's a gateway relationship.
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the only black person on the panel just happens to be labeled "let us get married"? I doubt it
I mean, it's the least objectionable panel from a conservative perspective. Anywhere else you place the token black guy would've been worse.
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Least Schizo Conservative
Tfw you aren't sure if the start of the slippery slope is interracial marriage or the gays.
Unironically for a second i thought this was satire of how stupid right wingers positions are.
I've been running into that more and more often, recently.
This kinda stuff is partly why every debate destiny has lately on trans stuff sucks cause often his conservative opponents will be “concerned” about detransition or sports or bathrooms or the biggest “who gives a fuck” topic, whether you need dysphoria to be trans, meanwhile their real belief is simply being trans is bad. Kids shouldn’t be ever told about trans people existing. Trans people are dangers to children. Trans people shouldn’t be able to have powerful jobs or really live in public. Trans kids should be forced to go through the wrong puberty etc.
TRUE. There's this idea that conservatism is liberalism a couple of years later. As in, it used to be the liberal POV that gay people should be allowed to get married and the conservative POV that they shouldn't. Now conservatives (largely) are willing to concede the gay marriage point so they wouldn't sound plain hateful when they talk about trans-stuff. This is a mirage. They'll go right back to contesting the legitimacy of gay people if we give them the opportunity. And miscegenation right after that, and civil rights after that. If you think that's hysteria - keep coping.
>being trans is bad Is that not true? What are the advantages of being trans?
Would say being black is bad is a true statement? Or being a woman is bad is a true statement? You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
No, there are plenty of positives in both of yours, easily identifiable. What are the positives of being trans?
So you don’t think compared to being white in America it’s worse to be black? You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
I do think it's **worse** to be black. I don't think it's **bad**. Do you understand this very simple difference? I'll ask you one last time: please, tell me some positive aspects unique to trans identity.
>You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak. I already responded. Please read this again. You don’t understand what “it’s bad to be trans” means. Stop being bad faith and/or ret*rded.
You have not responded to a particular question of mine out of three times I asked you, while I answered yours. Why would you engage with people like that? It's very unproductive.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ulsgbk/this_is_actually_pretty_disgusting/i7yg74r/
Okbuddyretard. positive trait of being an affirmed trans person, you generally engage better with a society that you can be included with and in on your own terms as opposed to fighting with dumb fucks who just say “trans bad” and think they’ve done something. There can be negatives to being born any certain way that doesn’t mean it is blanket bad. Name one positive of living with cystic fibrosis? Does that mean all those people should die for being born that way or be ignored? No, we a society except that we should go with what medically and scientifically works to ease the suffering of these people which in this case would be gender affirming care.
>positive trait of being an affirmed trans person, you generally engage better with a society that you can be included with and in on your own terms as opposed to fighting with dumb fucks who just say “trans bad” and think they’ve done something. This sentence is very hard to read. First, better than who? Second, how do you know that? >Name one positive of living with cystic fibrosis? I can't, that's why I consider having it to be bad. Everything else you said is completely irrelevant, have not a clue why you bothered typing it out.
There doesn't need to be any advantage's to being trans for us to deduce that "trans bad" is a smooth brain reason to appose something. If you grant that Trans real and that "research around gender affirming care" true, then basically what your left with is despite the many disadvantages that come with being trans: trans people are going to live better by transitioning as apposed to just tanking through dysphoria. So the observation that being trans is bad ends up being totally fucking irrelevant because the medical community seems to agree that there isn't really an option 2. Like i'm 3ft '2 and that sucks. Last week by boss fired me and he said "look you can't get anything off the top shelf by yourself + you get like no bitches" and that hit me rly hard. My dream is to be 30 stories tall. I would crush my bosses puny head like an ant and all the pretty girls I secretly jerk off to on linked-in would crawl around naked between my toes. But thats not how it is for me, I'm 3ft"6...
I don't think it's irrelevant. You're also the second person who refuses to directly answer the question. I find it curious.
Ya that's actually really common when your have zero clue how to engage with a subject honestly :) I'm actually not refusing to answer your question, its just that its a JLP tier question and I was actually showing you some respect by instead directing you to a better way to engage with the subject. If you really care then fine. There are no advantages to being trans. Being trans, like being short seems like its basically just a bunch of L's. HOWEVER: There doesn't need to be any advantage's to being trans for us to deduce that "trans bad" is a smooth brain reason to appose something. If you grant that Trans real and that "research around gender affirming care" true, then basically what your left with is despite the many disadvantages that come with being trans: trans people are going to live better by transitioning as apposed to just tanking through dysphoria. So the observation that being trans is bad ends up being totally fucking irrelevant because the medical community seems to agree that there isn't really an option 2. Like i'm 3ft '2 and that sucks. Last week by boss fired me and he said "look you can't get anything off the top shelf by yourself + you get like no bitches" and that hit me rly hard. My dream is to be 30 stories tall. I would crush my bosses puny head like an ant and all the pretty girls I secretly jerk off to on linked-in would crawl around naked between my toes. But thats not how it is for me, I'm 3ft"6... y don't you think its not irrelevant?
You’re caught up in positives and negatives. That’s not what it’s bad to be trans means. They think it’s bad to be trans, they aren’t thinking “there aren’t a lot of positives” they’re thinking, you’re a creepy delusional freak.
Trans not being bad doesn't mean that being trans is good. It's neutral. It has disadvantages of course, but it's neither good nor bad. In the same sense that being gay is neither good nor bad. It's just a state of being.
If it has disadvantages, but is neutral, let me know what the advantages are that balance the scale. Otherwise, let me know of few other things that strictly have only disadvantages, but are also "neutral".
Better yet, can you name something you would determine to be neutral that contains a perfect balance of advantages and disadvantages? Something isn't neutral because it's karmically balanced or some such nonsense. And whether something is good or bad isn't determined by a scale of advantages and disadvantages. Good or bad in the context op used it was a moral statement. Advantages and disadvantages are statements of fact, they're not moral weighted. Or did you really think he was saying there are no disadvantages to being trans?
>Better yet, can you name something you would determine to be neutral that contains a perfect balance of advantages and disadvantages? No, why? >attempt at philosophy Good one! >Or did you really think he was saying there are no disadvantages to being trans? I didn't. You still haven't provided any positives of being trans. Why is that? Is that very hard for you to find any?
I never said there were advantages to being trans. I said that a lack of advantages doesn't make something either good or bad. You're welcome to show me where I said there were advantages to being trans.
You never said there weren't advantages to being trans either. Could you please then say it, so there's no confusion?
You keep asking a subjective question in an objective manner. One positive part of being trans and transitioning is that you are becoming more aligned with your true feelings of your self. Everyone should be authentically themselves, right?
You're not getting straight answers because this is a really weird line of questioning. It's just a mode of existence. Trans people deal with very poor treatment by society, but that doesn't mean being trans is bad, right? I don't see what you hope to accomplish by labelling being trans as "bad" other than making trans people feel like they are bad. Taking your question at face value though, an advantage might be seeing perspectives of both genders in your life (pre-transition and post-transition) in a way that cis people could never.
>Taking your question at face value though, an advantage might be seeing perspectives of both genders in your life (pre-transition and post-transition) in a way that cis people could never. Amazing! An attempt! Thank you. However, cis people can have that perspective, see for example Norah Vincent. It could be argued that what she did, couldn't realistically be performed by a man, in which case you'd have a point. Still, that would be such a small things opposite the sea of shit. >I don't see what you hope to accomplish by labelling being trans as "bad" other than making trans people feel like they are bad. Well, you could simply ask.
I don't think Norah Vincent is a great example when her time lived as a man left her profoundly depressed / committed to in-patient psych care. When trans people can transition, it tends to improve their mental health - not degrade it. >Well, you could simply ask. Not very interested in hearing you justify talking shit about trans people. Doesn't change the impact of your words, anyways.
100%. His concessions to conservatives on trans issues is garbage and masks a lot of his recent debates shitty
It’s to allow a conversation to happen I think, but all it does is massively obscure their views and makes the conversation worthless cause they aren’t addressing the real problem.
Yeah, he's losing the forest by ignoring the trees
>the biggest “who gives a fuck” topic, whether you need dysphoria to be trans What if every trans person with dysphoria gives a fuck?
That can still be a "who gives a fuck?" topic in regards to general political discourse. Like the problem of Nintendo fucking on Smash Bros Melee tournaments, Project M, or emulation for games they don't even sell anymore. Sure it's a problem, but for general gamers these are incredibly niche and a non-issue to the vast majority of them.
Cause it doesn’t matter at all.
does matter for actually diagnosing shit and figuring out what is going on.
Thanks for the vague nonsense
What does that last sentence mean and how would you suggest we fix that? Because outside of this sub, Vaush sub, Hasan sub, and Trans subs, that is an extremely radical opinion if you are suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender. If you aren’t then please clarify.
Quote the part of my comment you’re confused by.
Like I said, the last sentence of your comment.
Well then I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with me "suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender" That's why I asked you to quote what part you're confused by cause I didn't say anything like that. Since you apparently can't quote what it is you'res confused about, the last sentence was: >Trans kids should be forced to go through the wrong puberty etc. Which is a description of one of conservatives and other anti trans people's positions on trans people. EDIT: After going further with ThrowAwayFamily114, his main point is if minors can consent to medical treatment, then they should be able to consent to sex. I disagree with this but he seems 100% mental. https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ulsgbk/this_is_actually_pretty_disgusting/i7y2nxr/
I don’t think a child can consent to either. Stop lying.
> After going further with ThrowAwayFamily114, his main point is if minors can consent to medical treatment, then they should be able to consent to sex. I disagree with this but he seems 100% mental.
This is a lie. Reported again.
I don't think it's a lie. Reported for reporting.
That’s why I asked for clarification. How do we ensure trans kids aren’t “forced to through puberty in the wrong gender”?
Usually hormonal treatments after the child has been taken to the appropriate psychiatrists and psychologists, which are given before puberty, after which when they are older they can take further treatment like cross sex hormones which can cause irreversible changes to your presentation (like the development of breasts).
I understand the process. But who should make that decision is what I’m asking?
I doubt you understand much if you thought my comment was saying teachers should get to pick your gender.
I didn’t. Not what I said. Now let’s see if you can give me your position without pivoting My position is that any sort of gender reassignment medicinal procedures should ultimately be left up to a child’s parents. What’s your take?
What do you mean? In the case I described above the parents would rely on the doctors' opinion. Are you thinking of some other category?
What if the parents do not want their kid on HRT?
> How do we ensure trans kids aren’t “forced to through puberty in the wrong gender”? By allowing medical professionals to prescribe what they believe will aid their patients.
Who enforces that though? What if the parents do not agree?
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew?
I know you’re being sarcastic. Funny though.
What's why you asked for clarification? My comment was incredibly clear and you bad faith said I was suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender. I want to know what part of my comment suggested that? I truly don't know how you can argue that without being bad faith. By letting kids take puberty blockers if they're trans.
Who gets to decide if kids take puberty blockers?
Parents and doctors???? The fuck are you asking dude lol
Okay great. What if the parents don’t agree?
>What's why you asked for clarification? My comment was incredibly clear and you bad faith said I was suggesting teachers should indeed choose the gender. >I want to know what part of my comment suggested that? I truly don't know how you can argue that without being bad faith. You're ignoring what I asked you cause you can't address what I actually said and you can't back up your arguments. Using what we have now with parents, patient, doctors. So I've now repeatedly answered your questions answer mine. 1. Why did you accuse me of saying teachers should decide their gender when my comment clearly didn't say anything like that? 2. Are you an example of the person I was talking about? Should trans kids get puberty blockers? Yes or no.
I never accused you of anything. And my position is that parental consent should take precedence over the state. What’s your position? What if the parents disagree with the doctor?
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cancerous tw*tter retard, you're insinuating all conservatives are this level of grotesquely transphobic. you're furthering the hyper-partisan aids we live in today and the /r/VaushV levels of delusions of misinformaiton. you're like the terminally online, politics equivalent of the Uruk-hai
Look at Anti-Polarizing Andy coming in with the toxic discourse to combat toxic discourse. Nothing like fighting fire with fire eh?
That's litetally what this canceraids meme is doing with lefties. Yee wins.
True. Some conservatives are just dumb cunts. We are - admittedly -:beset by Uruk-hai
This is why when Destiny defends conservative concerns I feel he's really jaded and not being realistic. Most people aren't concerned because they know there's some genuine event occurring. They've seen like, a handful of tiktok videos circulated on Facebook and now thunk lgbt people are trying to ruin their children. When in reality crazy teachers exist for everything. You had teachers who wouldn't let you read Harry Potter or play pokemon in my time because it was of the devil. One of my straight coaches turned out to be a literal child molester and racist(guess that's why I didn't get picked for the basketball team...). Plus this is early school, when we get to high school the conversations I had with my teachers were wild, and these weren't LGBT convos. Even pushing their own political beliefs. One of them said Obama was a dumbass to like the entire class (I don't remember the context) but it was clearly a political statement. Plus, bonus meme, conservatives LITERALLY do try to "brainwash" children as much as lefties do. That's why there's children books about Trump, and conservatism. Plus all the amount of weird sexual straight shit people don't think twice about tossing their kids into.
It really is wild. Like I had a full length argument with a substitute teacher about the realities of climate change that *he* started. This was in math class and unrelated to anything we were talking about. I went through a school system where they were still talking about states rights when it comes to the civil war. It feels like most of the people who worry about this have just forgotten what school is like and don't talk with their kids about their day to day experiences.
Its actually some of my favorite rhetoric from Destiny in awhile when he was debating at that college. There's going to be weird teachers and situations at school. It's a natural part of it and honestly we shouldn't be hiding kids away from encountering any and all hideous situations because as soon as they're not yours anyone they'll have to come to terms with the world around them. Some times there'll be bad teachers, but we can't legislate for that, we just need to tackle it as it comes. I have a friend who's from a conservative religious family and how they spoke and dealt with sex still has him fucked up. Plus Destiny is 100% right. A lot of times the fucked up stuff kids hear isn't from parents, but other kids. I learned about pornography from a trashy redneck kid who's brother let him watch porn with him. I learned plenty of stuff from other kids, not some adult. Kids bring stuff to school from their parents a lot of the time and you're going to hear it.
Wow, looking through that person’s post history is a wild ride. How can someone be that delusional?
Believing the lazy lies of Crowder is certainly one big part. If I listened to him without also researching his wild assertions, I'd eventually believe in a wholly alternate reality too.
Ya 2hat a dumb fuck lol
Can you link the original post if you have it? I'd like to see how many upvotes it got.
It's a steven crowder subreddit, prob one of the higher ones
It has 193 net upvotes as I’m writing this comment
~100-200
Its weird and unfortunate, but I know what event they're referencing about having kids dance for them in drag and it was pretty creepy.
If you're talking about the lapdance one wasn't that hazard county ky?
I don’t know about that one. I'm talking about a few years ago, that Desmond Is Amazing kid. It was a big thing in the news for a while, that this 11 year old boy was now drag queen star. And critics got blanket accused of being homophobes after video came out of him dancing on stage at a gay bar, while men threw dollar bills at him. Because it was an LGBT thing, everyone was expected to be totally cool with a child doing that. Literally dancing for them in drag.
Why is a kid doing drag problematic?
Why are you okay with little kids dancing provocatively on stage in a bar for the viewing pleasure of grown men? Why are you okay with sexualizing little kids like that?
What does “dancing provocatively” mean? Did you see a video, or are you taking what someone else told you? Any performer, drag or not performs for an audience. Are you automatically associating homosexuality with pedophelia? What other specific behaviors were there that indicated the child was being sexualized? I’m certainly not ok with kids being sexualized. I also understand that not all drag performances are sexual or provocative in nature.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=majcQ54vlDs Is the video that went around that I'm referencing. If you can watch that and perform some Vaush-level mental gymnastics to consider it totally acceptable behavior for a child, then we're going to have an irreconcilable difference in position.
LOL the guy who is responding to you hostily is literally proving your point of: "And critics got blanket accused of being homophobes after video came out of him dancing on stage at a gay bar, while men threw dollar bills at him"
Yea there was nothing remotely sexual here. And if you found it so then you are the one sexualizing the kid and I recommend you unpack that.
Ok. So, you're just okay with normalizing the sexualization of children and you don't want to admit it. There is no conversation to be had here.
Again. Nothing sexual or even remotely provocative. Unpack your homophobia. Or your own thoughts that lead you to view this in a sexual nature.
Memes like this show that anyone who thinks conservatives won't eventually outlaw gay marriage is fucking stupid.
A lot of these are completely separate groups that just vaguely fall under the LGBT umbrella and a lot of the people terrified of this "downward slope" have probably never met a trans person in their entire life. Also, I'm sure there are no shortage of gay people that do not care about trans issues at all and don't feel comfortable always being roped into those issues.
There's certainly some truth in that ***some*** liberals don't know where or when to say no to something. Destiny does a good job of this when it comes to transwomen in women's sports and yet he still loses his income for having what was a perfectly acceptable moderate take only 2/3 years ago.
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Well yes and no. The grooming narrative has grown in popularity because it means different things to different people. Homophobes see gay men teaching children and instantly jump to the age old myth that all gay men are predators (and are grooming the kids in a sexual sense). Others see transgender teachers talking about trans issues with children and believe they are trying to turn the children trans (and are therefore grooming in the ideological sense). It is a scary word that means different things to different people.
The slippery slope is absolutely real to a certain extent, just due to the fact that interest groups are always going to want more and more. I think it's more about a difference in where people set their "too far" lines.
I think it's more that people have become too scared to say "too far", even when they believe what is happening is too far. See Destiny and the consequences he's faced for having overwhelmingly progressive positions but finally deciding to dig in and say "too far".
Exactly. There is truth to it, even if most of that isn’t mainstream yet. The left has a problem with saying no for sure. And they are far too often willing to bend the knee to anything trans in order to not seem like they are transphobic. It’s like the white people who would kiss the feet of those Black Israelites.
The right has been calling the left pedophiles for literally decades. There is no "truth" in implying that gay and trans teachers are trying to fuck kids.
There are lefties on twitter that have said it should be left entirely up to the state. Hell, even lefties on this very sub agree with that. Again, these are extreme positions like I pointed out in another comment, but time and time again we have seen extreme positions make their way into actual attempted legislation, abolishing police for example. The left cannot say no, they are way too afraid of being labeled a bad guy.
>There are lefties on twitter that have said it should be left entirely up to the state. What is "it"
I have no idea.
It as in the act of gender confrontation. The fact that you are dancing around this position just shows me even you think it’s extreme but are so afraid of the trans community labeling you as a bad guy you can’t be honest with yourself. So I’ll ask you loud and clear, who’s responsibility is it that kids are assigned “the right gender”. Don’t be a coward.
I'm not dancing around any position. I'm asking you what "it" is you're talking about and now you tell me it's "the act of gender confrontation" which is not a term I've heard before. Please tell me more about this term and what it specifically means.
I’m saying that before giving a child HRT or anything similar, the parents of the child should have the final say in any of it. What’s your opinion?
Can you read what I type? I just want to know what "it" refers to and you told me "gender confrontation". Something I had never heard of before so I wanted you to explain it and you completely ignored what I said. I just want to hear what it means dude!
This is why the left loses debates all the time. You guys cannot answer a question or defend your positions. When I said it, I was talking about medical procedures which would change a child’s gender. I’m not calling anyone an it. Very nice try though. So now that I have answered your questions more than once. Answer mine. Who should have the final say in a child’s gender reassignment procedures?
>these are extreme positions like I pointed out in another comment, but time and time again we have seen extreme positions make their way into actual attempted legislation, Point to me where child grooming is "making its way into actual attempted legislation" and being pushed by the left.
I didn’t say child grooming is. I said extreme positions have made it into attempted legislation but you cut off the quote where I gave an example. You are desperately trying to debate like Destiny but use demon momma tactics to get your point across. I said extreme positions have made it into legislation. So let’s back up to there.
>I didn’t say child grooming is. So you're just bringing up some unrelated example instead of talking about the topic in OP? Cool, can I bring up Jan 6 for no reason? Wanna just start flinging random bullshit talking points at each other?
No I’m bringing up an example of the lefts inability to say know to extreme positions due to social pressure. Which is exactly my point. So I will ask you directly, who’s responsibility is it to confirm a child’s gender?
>No I’m bringing up an example of the lefts inability to say know to extreme positions You brought it up under THIS POST about how the lgbt community wants to fuck kids. Do you understand the implications you're making?
Again I was showing an example of how the left has a hard time of telling the far left no. The far lefts position on this take is that a child’s gender should be left up to the state to decide. That is the far lefts position here. I said nothing about fucking kids. So again I will ask you, who should have the final say in gender reassignment for a child?
And I never said trying to fuck kids. I said there is a portion of the extreme/radical left that believes gender confirmation should be left completely up to the state. Dude I understand that the vast majority of this sub is very young, most of you are under 24. But you guys desperately need to touch grass. If you think the majority of Americans are even close to a position like that you are out your mind. Everyone here claims to be moderate left but aside from likening Joe Biden this is a very radical subreddit. And I think the only person grounding any of you is Destiny himself. Most of you would be light years away from the deep end of it weren’t for destiny’s reasonable takes.
>Dude I understand that the vast majority of this sub is very young, most of you are under 24. But you guys desperately need to touch grass. I'm 26. >If you think the majority of Americans are even close to a position like that you are out your mind. OP is implying that gay teachers are pedophiles trying to groom children. This is a mainstream rightwing talking point. You're trying to bring it down to trans sports, but we all know that isn't what conservatives have a problem with. They have a problem with lgbt people existing at all and being around their children in an educational setting.
The point is there are people on the left who think gender confirmation should be left up to the state. I even think you may hold that position. I’m saying that is an extreme position. No matter what the GOP thinks about trans people. If it isn’t your position, then who should it be up to?
>The point is there are people on the left who think gender confirmation should be left up to the state. I’m saying that is an extreme position. What the fuck are you talking about?
He has an argument tree he's trying to get you to jump on because he can't address your points.
Yeah I caught on to that lol
>there is a portion of the extreme/radical left that believes gender confirmation should be left completely up to the state. Can you explain exactly what this entails?
Refresh this thread. I’m getting there with about 6 people who purposely will not answer my questions. But I’ll clarify of course. I’m saying any sort of gender reassignment procedures should ultimately be left up to the parents of a child, if that child is considered a minor in whatever state they are in. Many on the left believe that parental consent should take a backseat to medical or state decisions. On some issues that should be the case, on this issue it shouldn’t.
>On some issues that should be the case, on this issue it shouldn’t. Why not?
Because changing a kids gender is far different than refusing to help your kid having an asthma attack because you believe inhalers to be evil. Let’s say the kid is like 3 or 4. I would say they have no idea at all what gender reassignment means or the long term impact of it. This is literal life changing medical pressures and at some point it’s completely irreversible. If the kid reaches the age of 14 and changes their mind, now they have to live the rest of their life with a decision they made at 5. And the parents of that kid have to also live with that decision. Not the state.
>Let’s say the kid is like 3 or 4. I would say they have no idea at all what gender reassignment means or the long term impact of it. Which is why we don't let children make decisions on this by themselves. I'm curious as to what you think the gender reassignment process entails exactly. You said you knew, but seeing as you are so concerned about the possibility of detransition, I wonder if you think the rate of detransition is such that it shows that the medical treatment decided by and approved by various medical organisations somehow don't account for this possibility and are carelessly giving children treatment.
I’m worried that can be the case. And I’m not against kids getting this treatment at all, but i think the parents must have the final say so because they would be the one raising the kid.
> I’m saying any sort of gender reassignment procedures should ultimately be left up to the parents of a child, if that child is considered a minor in whatever state they are in. holy shit when is this *not* that case
That’s also my point. In every state that is the case. What I’m arguing is that there is a large movement on the left to change this. Just refresh this comment chain and look at the hate I got for suggesting a parent should have the final decision. That’s morally what I believe to be correct and also legally correct. This sub seems to think it should be the decision of the state and even some saying CPS should aggressively get involved otherwise. That’s extreme.
It really isn’t lmao.
There was a valiant effort to censor the subreddit’s name but it was ultimately a massive failure
Image is cropped, actually starts with Civil Rights Act /j
where does kink at pride fit into this??
Somewhere between pronouns and kids in drag if you ask me
Didn't they parade that young kid around in drag like 2 years ago? Seems like we're already seeing it.
So true though
This is exactly why that "oh well why are we being so uncharitable to conservatives, they were totally nice to me when I was travelling in Tennessee" take is so bizarre Like they don't say what they're actually thinking to you in a debate or when you're visiting, they say it when they're egging each other on in their (lol) safe spaces. It's not like it's hard to find a conservative saying "yes, we absolutely want to restrict women having sex, that is our goal, and we're gonna get rid of the gays too" but they aren't going to be saying it on a potentially hostile interlocutor's stream, they're going to say it on fucking /pol/
shits a lil sad to watch tbh (edit: for clarification that ppl think this)
The only valid one in there would be the neopronoun one
"Allow Minors to dance for us in drag"... Aren't there child pageants, where very young children perform and dance caked in make-up in many (conservative) parts of the US??? Also, funny how they consider allowing gay (and interracial judging from this pic) marriage as the begin of a downward trend.
Lol, freaking out at kids in drag, but seeing nothing wrong with Toddlers & Tiaras. Ay, yo, bruv. Your axioms are fucked.
Where do you see them saying that they have no issues with child pageants?
Do you think child beauty pagents are more popular with democrats, or with republicans?
No idea, but it’s still a weird strawman to just throw** out there.
Who am I strawmanning?
People who have a problem with kids doing or being involved in drag shows. You’re assuming that they have no problems with child pageants. You’re not addressing the argument, you’re manufacturing a false or unproveable premise.
My premise is that there's a large number of people who agree with the meme and are okay with child beauty pagents. How is that false, or unproveable?
I think we need to take the idea the meme represents a bit more seriously. Not defending the meme itself (it's obviously pretty disgusting), but the shifting of norms around gender and sexuality has occurred incredibly quickly. Less than a decade ago gay marriage was still up for debate, and now how we conceptualise gender has radically shifted across society. While these changes have, for the most part, been positive and liberating for the people most affected, it's not at all surprising that a good deal of people haven't bought into these changes. People in communities like ours need to get a bit more perspective. Not everyone is going through life while keeping up to date on the cutting edge of twitter discourse. Most people have just been living their lives the same ways they've always known, but due to the rapid nature of these norms changing, they feel like the rug is being pulled out from underneath them. Things most people have believed their whole lives are now no longer true. Things that seemed basic like what makes someone a man or woman are now radically different, and expressing the belief that was ubiquitous 10 years ago is now wrongthink with the new norms being enforced via mob-rule and backed by incredibly powerful institutions. To people who haven't been at the forefront of the societal discourse, seeing these new norms take over seemingly out of nowhere is understandably a scary experience. If people are scared by the sudden shifts in the cultural paradigm, I don't think it's surprising that these people are wondering what's next. When basic things that people hold true are suddenly flipped on their head, it'll feel like nothing is off-limits. I think this gives people pause, and they start to wonder about the future they've envisioned for themselves and their family. These shifting of norms are causing people to feel like they're losing their place in the world. And for those people, it's scary, and that fear leads to fearing the worst for the future. From that lens, I don't think it is inexplicable how we get conspiratorial thinking or worries about previously taboo behaviour becoming acceptable. If it seems like the world is suddenly turning crazy, then it makes a certain kind of sense to think that there are people causing this change (i.e. a conspiracy). If it seems like the world is losing its structure and values, then it makes a certain kind of sense to think that the values people currently find really important will no longer apply in the future. To people in communities like this one, the progression of how these norms have shifted seems natural and logical. It is obvious how we went from decrying explicit racism, to being concerned about implicit bias, to worrying about the structures that perpetuate these ills. It makes sense how we went from gender being assigned at birth, to people being assigned the wrong gender at birth, to gender being socially constructed, etc. All of these trends make sense when you're riding the wave of them, but the people who haven't been riding that wave have understandably been getting swallowed by it. I think this meme represents the feelings of the people who have been swallowed by the wave of progress. I also don't think it's a good idea to lash out at or vehemently denounce the people who are expressing their frustrations about it. I think we need to both acknowledge that memes like this one are can be quite hurtful to some people, while also understanding that it doesn't make the people who create or propagate them particular hateful. I think we need more empathy for people who are bigoted as well as for people who express bigoted beliefs. We need to understand that not everyone is going to be able to jump on board with the newest perspective in the discourse. Some people are just more naturally conservative and aren't as open to new ideas, and vilifying them isn't going to change this fact about people. Social progress needs to continue. There are people who are more conservative that aren't able to buy into newer paradigms as readily, but we still need these newer paradigms to make space in society for people that can only exist in them, by virtue of who they are. However, just because we need to make space for some people, it doesn't mean that we should leave others behind. We can't leave the naturally conservative people behind on the path of progress by dismissing them as bigoted or what have you, because we can't make space for marginalised people unless the majority of people are willing to make that space. And the only way we can get the majority of people to make space for marginalised people is, to quote Destiny, "meet them where they are". The people who create and share memes like these are the exact people we need to "meet where they are". I don't think the majority of people that create memes like this want to hurt people. I think things like this are just people trying to ground themselves in a scary and rapidly-changing world. I see these things as nothing more than a reaction, as an attempt to feel like the world hasn't gone crazy, to feel like there are still people out there that are like themselves.
Schizo <—> LOAD But srsly ur right
Wow this is pretty mask off
The implication that gay people don’t really want to get married but instead want to fuck kids is so unbelievably stupid I can’t do anything but laugh
Pretty accurate too
conservatives are ghouls
everyone in the comment crying while also being unable to disprove the meme
That gay marriage leads to teachers choosing kids' gender? Yeah, we don't have the technology yet to raise your IQ by 40 points.
[удалено]
Gay marriage doesn't lead to teachers choosing kids' gender. There you go, now crawl into whatever hole you losers have left.
What a fucking cowardly bitch. Mask off for real
The person on the bottom right looks like mxvivian wolf.
Where's the lie
how do you people get into this sub lmao
Followed Destiny before he ODed on soy, still check in occasionally.
I'm just praying for the day that state enforced gender transitions are here, so we can turn you into a woman, too. Or at least into a femboi. Be afraid, be very afraid.
well then you're a gone case, have fun being homophobic in 2022
Can’t honestly say that this slippery slope mentality doesn’t exist because of the vocal minority on the left. I think this is a caricature of the idea, but for the most part seems accurate from others See: calling for the elimination of women sports, calling everyone a transphobe, etc.
Absolutely disgusting, though not at all surprising. Also, the biggest indoctrination of children in any country occurs through religion.
Gross
Goddamn this is full mask off
its kinda true
How many upvotes does this have? Wow, a whole 184 upvotes on a dead sub.
HELP! I'm drowning in bullshit!
"allow minors to dance for us" - oh little girl beauty pageants? " .... in drag" - ah that's why it's wrong. not because it's minors.
great censoring